Pregnancy WORSE Than War?! 300+ Body Count?! $1,000,000 To Date Her?! Andrew W! | Dating Talk #243

Date: 2025-05-19

Duration: 8h 55m

Guests

Brian Atlas

SShannon Davey >

NNatalie Stavola >

AAndrew Wilson >

GGabby (Michigan)>

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_02Gabby (Michigan)(guest)

SPEAKER_03Felicity(guest)

SPEAKER_04Natalie Stavola(guest)

SPEAKER_09Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_10Shannon Davey(guest)

SPEAKER_11Guidance(guest)

SPEAKER_13Joey(guest)

SPEAKER_14Wu (Cassie)(guest)

Key Moments

IntroAll guests introduced including Wu (8 languages, PhD linguistics)

Key MomentGuidance: engaged after 6-week courtship. 3 prior marriages. Shunned from JW.

Key MomentNatalie: 8-year sobriety anniversary today (cocaine/alcohol). 300+ body count.

Key MomentAndrew's infinite regress argument on trans identity: if partner has penis and you perform oral, by your definition that's gay

OtherAndrew Wilson departs to sleep before next day debate

Topics Discussed

Guest Introductions

Shannon, Guidance, Natalie, Joey, Gabby, Wu, Felicity, Andrew Wilson.

Octopus Water Incident

Water smells fishy. Brian blames Costco octopus contaminating fridge.

Body Count Discussion

Andrew's grimy dude multiplier. 10 ONS vs 10 failed LTRs trolley problem.

Bow Video and Submission

Brian shows ex bowing. Panel asked if they would bow. Wu: 3x/week max.

Minimum Income Round

Shannon $100-150K. Guidance $300K. Natalie $300K+. Joey $75K. Wu $36K/yr.

Transgender Identity Debate

Guidance: wrong to refuse trans people solely for being trans. Andrew's infinite regress on defining 'woman.'

Body Count Reveals

Felicity 2. Guidance 27. Shannon declined. Natalie 300+. Gabby 2.

Transcript

Page 8 of 10

Joeysituations and I think that's why he's asking if you're a dictator would you criminalize this in some for and I I think it almost it's a slippery slope because then it comes down to belief some people truly believe that gender

Joeyand sex are the same thing where people see the opposite. So how do you criminalize that and then then what's next then is it religion you know what I mean? So you'd have to criminalize ideology on that one. Exactly. And

Guidancethat's what people are scared because I think people who have that mindset, the they them, the transgender people, you know, the non-binary, it's becoming more and more and more prevalent. And the

Guidancepeople who don't identify with that way of life are, in my opinion, freaking out. Like, how do we navigate these LGBTQIA people? Just just respect and

Guidancelove them just the way you would a nonLGBTQIA person. And if those situations arise, address them with empathy and love. This person says, "Yeah, he, they, whatever. I don't

Guidancereally agree with it. I'll call them that while I'm addressing them because that's how they feel." Well, at the end of the day, I'll go home and still feel the same way. Is you respecting that

Guidanceperson going to change your mindset? Obviously not. So, why not just give them that respect and empathy while you're addressing them? Especially if you're in a professional setting. At the end of the day, they're just a human.

Shannon DaveyWhat they decide to call themselves should not matter to you and what you do with your life. It does matter to a certain group of people though who are trying to maintain a certain order in

Shannon Daveysociety. And are they right? Are they wrong? Personally, I'm not exactly sure. But it does matter to them

Shannon Daveybecause if these wars between the cultures continue on, it's just going to wreak havoc. And I think part of while conservatives have their own issues, I

Shannon Daveythink part of the issue that they're having with this is that they see these people as having a very severe mental illness. And while they can respect them as a person, they can't respect the mental illness of it all. So what do you

Guidancedo if a person has an illness? You disrespect this and if it is in fact I wouldn't say you disrespect them but also you don't go blindly with their beliefs. But if they're sick then you disrespecting or not respecting their

Shannon Daveybeliefs is not going to heal them. They're still going to I was saying earlier you don't cause harm to people on purpose. However, some people on the more conservative side would be saying,

Shannon Davey"Well, they're causing me harm because they're being so mentally ill that it's becoming almost a hassle on society." So, do we sit there and say the same

Brian Atlasthing about obese people is they are for the sake of time. For the sake of time, I've got to move it on. We have uh one chat here from Lulu if this would work

SPEAKER_08actually work. Thank you, Lulu. Lulu donated $200. Trans sympathizers are basically willing to bend truth and logic for the

SPEAKER_08sake of trans people's feelings. Share two. Do you think that making choices based on feelings and emotions is wise for society?

GuidanceI do. I believe that using your human instincts and treating people with love and respect is how we are going to survive as a race.

Guidancenot by describing each other's genitals or using pronouns. I I think at the end of the day, none of that will matter to the success of the human race is whether

Guidanceyou're they, them, trans or what. I think that us as a people supporting and loving each other and having community, that's that's it. All right. Um I would hap I'd be more than happy to engage further in it, but we've got a bit more

Brian Atlasto get through, so I'm gonna have to move it on. Uh guys, we've lowered the TTS. We're uh This is going to be the roast threshold. So, if you guys are like holding out for

Brian Atlaslike the 30 or the $29 uh TTS's, we're just going to do $69 TTS and uh that'll be the roast session and then then we'll wrap. So, uh don't hold out for the 30s

Brian Atlasbecause 69's the that's going to be the end of it. So, uh let's see here. There's Oh, let's do uh you know that was kind of a heavy topic. Let's do the AI stuff. That'll be fun.

Brian AtlasAll right. So, uh, we have age advanced all of you here. I remembering for this. I'm so excited for this. All right. Uh,

Joeygo ahead and pull it up. It's going to be so dumb. Okay. Is the first picture what I look like today? You When did you pose for this? It was when I did the story. Oh, okay. I'm like, when did

SPEAKER_06we look goofy as I know? Yeah. that. Nice. Okay. All right. There you go. You look like a fun grandma.

Brian AtlasUh, and then whoever is doing these, I think, uh, we've done some adjustments. Mara in the Discord. Thank you. I think it so far that one looks a bit better than

Brian Atlasusual. Usually it goes a bit the AI goes overboard with it. So, well done. All right. Age difference. Oh, horrible. Absolutely. So, this relates to our like will you

Joeylook better in 1020 35? Is that 1020? There's can't be 1020. I don't know the exact breakdown. Okay.

SPEAKER_06All right. There it is. Uh, next. A. You look sweet. I'm not. No kidding.

JoeyExcept the compliment. Thank you very much. I am receiving that. I can't wait to see you when you're old. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_12Just angle. Did the AI Wow, you went you went from Asian to Latina. I look like my grandmother. I'm not going to lie. Like Jana has I've had a couple people

Joeytell me that, but I think from a certain angle maybe, but she's definitely more. No idea. She's Asian. You should look her up. Brian, next.

Gabby (Michigan)Oh, not Asian gracefully. Dang. I'm really bad. Chopped. Did you just say chopped? Yeah, I'm chopped. into that into the mic if you can. Yeah. No,

SPEAKER_12that's horrible. I hope I die before the age of 50 cuz No. Oh my gosh. RIP me. That's so extreme. That's extreme. It's only cuz you're a babysitter. That's you

Natalie Stavolaat 98. That last one. All right. Uh, next. Oh.

Natalie StavolaOh, no. Oh, you look so sweet. Seriously. Uh, all right. Uh, I will buy whatever you're selling is really what I'm

Felicityseeing. Next. E. Ew. That one was awful. Ew. Oh my gosh. It's not the worst though. That is the

Brian Atlasworst. It's not the worst. You're like the second worst. Yeah. All right. Here we go. This is probably Andrew next. Oh, darn. Darn. It would have been great. Oh, wow. He would have loved that. All right.

Brian AtlasNext. Um, they use like a old That's an old photo. That's kind of scary. And [Laughter]

SPEAKER_12why did a really bright picture lots of light? Yeah. A head shot. Uh, no. I feel like I'd want to see you now with

Brian Atlasthe beard and the AI do it. Yeah. Uh, is there another one or is it is it gender now? Gender. All right. Oh

Brian Atlasgod. Before we do before we do gender. Uh oh. I've done this before. They did this me as a dude. Whoops. Sorry, Lulu. I'm going to change the threshold. Not sure what why that happened there. One

SPEAKER_08sec. There's like five questions in one right now. We're going to do boom. Sorry, Lulu's mess. Lulu donated $69. Share two. Do you think trans

SPEAKER_08people should be allowed in women's sports? What do you think about the girls or JK Rowlings that are against that? Is there validity to their qualms?

GuidanceQuick answer on this if you can. Um, I'm not too versed on the JK Rowling things other than like she's against or not like for trans people. I would say I

Guidancedated a trans woman very recently and she was very biologically male like muscles and all. I would think that like a person with that type of body, I

Guidancewouldn't put them in a women's sport. Um, I would maybe put them in a different like maybe a sport for transgender women or have a league for just transgender women. I think that's

Guidancevery circumstantial though. This person had like lots of muscles though. So, all right, let's do gender swap. Let's do this. Oh, yeah. I love this. Ready? I

Brian Atlasdon't know. By the way, Matt, I saw your chat. Look, the thing is is that uh it's funny when you're anonymous sending in like insulting messages like making comments

Brian Atlasabout like people's weight or their race or whatever, but like you if you're in a room with somebody that's completely unacceptable and inappropriate and uh look, sometimes they slide through

Brian Atlasaccidentally. And you can call me a simp if you want, man. But there's just like a certain degree of uh these are guests here on the on the show. And a lot of

Brian Atlasthe a lot of the you look there's very few other YouTube channels, live streams where they would

Brian Atlasever allow through some of the chats that we do allow through. And there's just some that are just like just strictly insults. Uh so sometimes they

Brian Atlasget through, but we're not going to like if you're just being up uh egregiously insulting uh and you're not actually criticizing like anything that they're saying, it's just an insult. Like you

Brian Atlascan attack their you can t you can attack their arguments, you can attack their ideology, but if if you're just in like personal attacks, that's really not going to fly. Um and I I I don't know

Brian Atlashow else to say it, man. I don't know how else how to say it. You guys can call me Simps in the chat, but it's just and it's just it's not conducive to like the the topics that we talk about are

Brian Atlasalready controversial to begin with and then like we're going to throw on top of that, we're just going to outright insult the guests. That's never my goal. Again, we're already having like

Brian Atlasuncomfortable conversations at it as it is. I don't need the guests to feel further discomfort just by by just getting straight up like insulted over

Brian Atlasuh you know thing like race and stuff. That's crazy, guys. That's that's crazy. I'm not going to allow it. If you don't like that, I don't know what to tell you. Um and as far as the TTS, it's

Brian Atlasalready very late. We'll be here way too long if the roast is uh if the roast is lower. So, um yeah, cuz there's a ton more to get through. So sometimes we don't always get to do a like a roast

Natalie Stavolasession at the lower rate. It is what it is. It was a kind of a pretty uh hectic panel tonight. So that's integrity. Thank you so much. Cuz that's leadership right there. That is amazing. Yeah. No, thank you. You're

Natalie Stavolasetting bar. I [ __ ] love that. That shit's so sexy. It is. Okay. I kind of killed it.

Brian AtlasHey. Yeah. Thank you. Oh, hey. I I Andrew was dunking on me today, so I'll take a comment. Yeah. Um yeah, like it's just um I don't know. Uh and sometimes, look,

Brian Atlassometimes some comments get through and it's like, nah, that one's probably a little on the fence or uh it's just like guys, you if you enjoy the here, here's the best way I could put it that I think

Brian Atlaspeople will be understanding of not wanting certain chats to go through. So, if we want to get guests on the show like and somebody is contemplating

Brian Atlascoming on the show who could be extremely entertaining for you and you'd want to hear either their arguments or you'd want to hear them debate against me, against Andrew, against somebody

Brian Atlaselse, it is not in furtherance and not conducive to securing guests for the show. if somebody pulls up a stream and

Brian Atlasit's just like super chat after super chat of just straight up like racism and insults and all this stuff. Uh, so if you guys want me to put on a

Brian Atlasgood show, like the actual content, like the super chats are fun, but the content of the shows, the conversations, and trust me guys, like the amount of people, and the show's already walks the

Brian Atlasline, like I said, uh there's plenty of people who we've had scheduled to be on the show or we've invited. Well, I'll start with people who've been scheduled on the show. the

Brian Atlasamount of people who flake asis just due to the nature of the conversations, but there's a component of like the super chats that makes people hesitant to come on the show. So, there's that. It's

Brian Atlasalready difficult enough as it is, guys, to like book guests to come on the show. We're down to one show per week. If if it's really in terms of uh and I

Brian Atlasapologize for yapping here, guys, but uh I I feel it's important to explain this to the audience. Uh it we're already down to one show per week due to guest uh well part of it's

Brian Atlasthere's a couple reasons but one of it is difficulty with guest booking. The super chats are [ __ ] brutal. People don't want to be associated with that. They just don't um

Brian Atlasthey don't want to be associated with it. And so, um, I'm very supportive and or I'm very grateful for people who do support the show via super chat and whatnot, but I just I got to be

Brian Atlasconsiderate of the guests and I got to be considerate of my own platform to ensure that I can continue to get guests for the show. So, it's anyways that's it. So, all right.

Brian AtlasJust wanted to explain that because I saw Matt's chat. So, um, we have Christopher here. There's a video where a guy asked something like, "If it's illegal for men to use steroids in bodybuilding competitions, why isn't why isn't it isn't Oh my god, sorry, I'm

Brian Atlasstill drunk. Uh, why isn't it illegal for women to use makeup in beauty pageantss?" Thought thoughts. Quick answer on this from anybody. That would be an awesome pageant. Nothing.

Brian AtlasYeah. I think there should be two types of That's a good point though. Christopher. Very, very good point there, Christopher. Yeah. Okay. So, the next thing we're going to do here with the AI is uh gender swap. We're going to gender. We've gender swapped all of you.

Shannon DaveySo, the question you're going to ask yourself is, would I date the male version of me? Go ahead, pull it up. Okay. Oh, interesting. Wait, I need to see it

Brian Atlasagain. I need to see it. [Music] Maybe. Yeah, I think I would. I go on a date or two. There you go. All right.

SPEAKER_06Uh, next with the purple hair. Purple hair. I'm a lesbian.

GuidanceBut you've dated men. Yeah, I'm sure I give me a shot. Why not? I look one date. One date. The goatee thing or whatever is not doing it. Whoa.

SPEAKER_06It's kind of hot. Whoa. either without Felicity without if you ever transition. She's right. She's Hey, uh would you date the male version of you? I'd give

Natalie Stavolahim a shot. Which do you prefer, the beard or no beard? I think I like the beard, right? Well, I don't know. Let me ask her. No beard. No beard. I don't really like facial hair on guys usually.

JoeyOkay. For her, I'm going no beard. Okay. All right. Uh let's do next. I was scared. Oh, no. Oh, wait. You guys said

Joeyyes. not be my type. What? You don't like Asian guys? I didn't say that. Wow. I've just never dated an Asian guy. I'm not going to lie. Middle one looks like my brother. You've never dated an Asian guy? I've

Joeygone on one first date with one Asian guy. I think most Asian guys don't approach me. Oh. So, I'll just put it that way. Uh, but I also don't go on a lot of dates. You date like white guys,

JoeyLatino guys? Um, yeah. I've dated a mix of white, um, Hispanic, black, a mix of all those. So, who's the who's the baby daddy? Uh, half white, half Mexican.

JoeyOkay, got it. Yeah. All right. So So, is this a no? Is this a no, though? Uh, I don't know. Sure. First date.

Gabby (Michigan)Let's see where it goes. I'm off. Let's go off vibes. No, you're blocked. No, you're blocked. No, you're blocked. I look like I do drugs. No, you're not.

Gabby (Michigan)I look like my friend. I look like my best friend. You look like a lady bloomer. You just need some time. I know exactly who I look like and I know he's watching. This looks just like you,

Wu (Cassie)dude. All right, next. Oh no, I look terrible. I would date you instead of myself. Okay, I'll take it.

JoeyYou look like a professor. I think it matches. But you look handsome. Oh, thank you. Yeah, you're the hottest. She's trying to I I'd be short though, even if I transitioned. You can't fix the height.

FelicityI'm short anyway. Are you all right? Love connections up here. This isn't a like matchmaking show. Oh, yeah. Wait, boy. E, bring up the other

Natalie Stavolaone. The pink one. It's lost forever. That one's ugly. Wait, no. No, this that's great. I think the middle one looks like a K-pop hair. Men should not do bangs like that. That

Joeyjust doesn't work. But that's just he just got out of the shower. Here, Felicity. Cover the hair up. Like go like that. Hold. Yeah. Yeah. That's a cute white boy. Yeah. You know, just

Brian Atlaspush the bangs back like that's Oh, that's younger Andrew Wilson on the left. I was like, who is that? What is on the right? Wait, on the

Felicityright? Yeah, he's Asian all of a sudden. How did he get younger Asian? It's the Asian Asian. Like really? Attractive. Wait, what? He looks attractive as an

Brian AtlasAsian. As an Asian womanian. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, sure. I don't know how they got there, but love that one. All

Natalie Stavolaright. Uh, next. Oh my gosh. Oh my god. Are they What? I don't think AI is doing the right thing

Brian Atlason what look. Maybe it's getting confused with the beard. The second home girl with a little bit of filler. Super cute. The left I like the left one. The left one. You know what? Honestly though, tell me guys tell me what you think about this. So the the one on the

Brian Atlasright where So the transition from my beard to there. Yeah. Like I got one of those

Brian Atlaslike that's a a model. You know how models can be looking kind of like aliens and [ __ ] Yes. Not like a not like a Victoria Secret model, but like a

Natalie Stavolaone of those runway model. No, like that makes a lot of money. Does that like uh check out I guess? Yes. Does that parse? I guess like you have the features where it's like, "Oh, okay. Wait, hold on. I

Natalie Stavolagot to see the lock." But then all of a sudden, no, you take that girl takes a photo and you're like, "Oh my god, like you can't like she's hot but ugly at the same time." Like you don't know.

Brian AtlasDifferent. Very different looking like alien looking chick. Yeah. I see. Like that's what the runway model. They look for like unique features. It's like something you can't find anywhere. That's a unique looking chick, right?

Brian AtlasYou're unique. Uh Christopher Murphy, thank you for the super chat. Yeah. Send it through, brother. Send me a DM. Thank you. Thank you, brother. Nice. All right, we have uh we

SPEAKER_08have this. Hold up. Ang says Roar donated $69. Appreciate you, man. Do you think transgender women or men fully intact should be allowed in women's

SPEAKER_08locker/dressing rooms? Do you think it's fair to ask biological women to open space knowing some have been sid do you think it's fair to ask biological

Guidancewomen quick response on this if you can? Knowing some have been I think this is for you, man. If you um as far as the locker

Guidancerooms, I'm going to say yeah. I mean, cuz for me, like what what does it matter if they're changing clothes next to you? Like everyone changing clothes next to you isn't trying to have sex or with you. You know what I mean? Like let

Natalie Stavolalet them change clothes and shower next to you. It's not a big deal. You don't have to be in a relationship with them. Yeah. I don't think someone who's changing genders is really trying to

Gabby (Michigan)jump your bones on. Yeah. And either way, like it's if someone wants to essay someone in a locker room, they're going to do it whether or not gender, all

Brian Atlasgenders. Go there and do it. Yeah. Uh Moon, in your notes here or while in the questionnaire, you agree with the following statement. Women are just as physically strong as men. Can you just

Brian Atlasclarify? You think some definitely? I wouldn't say myself, but yeah, some women definitely or more. If in general, would you agree that men are physically stronger than women? I would say that

Guidancemen have the biological makeup to be stronger than us. But if a man doesn't work out and a woman does, she's going to be stronger. Y'all are set up to be stronger. Yes, of

Brian Atlascourse. That's Yeah, I agree. I I agree with you that there are certainly there are women who are stronger than some men. Yep. Perhaps many men even. But if we generally speaking, men are physically stronger than women.

Brian AtlasGenerally. Most men. Do Do you disagree? You seem a little I can't tell. Oh, you were just kind of Maybe it's just how you It's the It's the champagne. Oh, it's Of course,

Wu (Cassie)the champagne. What do they call champagne in uh in China? In Chinese. Yeah.

Wu (Cassie)Jung Champin. Champin. Like champne. Do they make champagne in

Brian Atlassparkling wine? I guess. Yeah. Why would they not? What the [ __ ] Right. Um I feel like we should talk about dating in China. Oh, do you have any thoughts on

Brian Atlasthat? Any All the dates that I had were like marriage oriented. So it's very Do people hook up in China to get sex? Yeah, like just you

Brian Atlasknow they go to a party they like I'm assuming there's you know nightclubs you go to a nightclub in China in in you know wherever and people just yeah some

Wu (Cassie)people do that but such behavior is not considered decent like you wouldn't want like all your classmates or your friends to know that unless you are all the same kind of people. I see. Okay. And well I

Brian Atlasfeel like there's definitely people definitely got the hookup in China. Yeah, cuz I mean there's a lot of people in China. What is it like? It's 1.4 1.4 billion.

Brian AtlasThey're billion. They're having sex in China. They have hookup culture. They're they're having sex. Um but like people have to get married first. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And uh let's see here. Um do you

Brian Atlaswant to get married or have kids? Yeah, you do want kids. Yeah. Okay. All right. And uh do you have I forgot to ask. have a preference for when it comes to like will you would you date cuz you said you

Brian Atlasdated uh another Chinese international student when you were in Germany and an Indian guy. Uh you have not dated a white person or black person? No. Or

Wu (Cassie)Latino person? No. Like Mexican? Not yet. No. Uh would you or do you have do you prefer to date uh Asian men?

Wu (Cassie)Um I I think I can date Latinos, but like I I dance south bachatano like and like I know a lot of Latinos and Latinas

Wu (Cassie)like like I have a a little bit issue with like their punctualities and some people just don't respond to my messages at all. I mean it's just like certain

Wu (Cassie)people and then like would you would you date a a white guy? Yeah. Black guy. I don't know. I think my parents would cry. Like like literally my my grandma

Wu (Cassie)was crying when she heard that I was dating an Indian guy and we wanted to live outside China. Like she was in her

Wu (Cassie)90s. Can I uh can I ask you a question? Uh are people pretty racist in China? I think people are not aware of like this

Wu (Cassie)issue because there are not enough foreigners. Like people like who haven't been to the big cities have not seen any foreigner in their whole life. So people don't know whether they are actually

Wu (Cassie)racist or not. But I would say like because I dated this Indian guy. So I like would notice a lot of comments uh in the internet. They were pretty like

Brian Atlasracist, especially against like brown people or black people. Got it. Okay. Uh, moving on to the questionnaire. We won't probably won't do all of these, but we'll just do a few more. Um,

Brian AtlasShannon, you you did a squiggly line. People of color can't be racist towards white people. I don't think the word should be to which you agree. I put squiggly because I think the wording I

Brian Atlasdon't think that they can be racist, but I think that they can prejudice. Yeah, you can be prejudice. And then Gabby, you also circled that people of color can't be racist towards white people. What's your position there? Same thing.

Gabby (Michigan)You can be prejudic but not racist. Okay. Uh, can you explain it to me? Racism based, it's more systematic when you really think about it because we had

Gabby (Michigan)the civil rights movement for a reason. We were a Well, I can't say we cuz I'm mixed. I mean, I don't know. Okay. Are you like 50/50 mix? Yeah, 50/50. But it

Gabby (Michigan)was uh dad's black or mom's black. Uh dad's black. Got it. Okay. Yeah. But um it was a more or less of a thing that black people had to fight for the rights as well of other people of colors. And

Gabby (Michigan)to this day, there's still ways that they're being oppressed. And um the prison prison system is a wave of that. It really shows. Um black

Brian Atlaspeople get incarcerated at higher rates. Um, and you when you're in prison, you work work for like five cents. Wait, one one question on that. So, you said the

Brian Atlasrelated to the prison thing. Mhm. So, you're saying there's a disproportionality comparing whites to blacks? In the prison like uh black people are

Brian Atlasmore likely to be convicted of incarcerated. And you think is it would you say that's because of racism? Not inherently. know because everyone

Gabby (Michigan)commits crimes but a part of it kind of is the whole prison system like the working initially when it was started it was just a way to incarcerate black

Brian Atlaspeople and have them do slave more slave work historically mainly in the south yeah historically yes there was incentive today there's still like but they still work they still work in

Gabby (Michigan)prison for like peanut wages and well sometimes they get they get time off but it's iffy But it's more or less like racism is a systematic oppression, not

Brian Atlasjust a hate of their skin color. Okay. But question for you. So you you're pointing towards there's a uh discrepancy in uh convictions and incarceration between whites and blacks.

Brian AtlasUh but what if I told you that discrepancy is orders of magnitude greater comparing men to women? So, and you're pointing towards, well, uh, the

Brian Atlasdiscrepancy between white and black, that's due to to racism, right? Well, then surely following your own logic, you would have to say that the discrepancy between men and women in the

Gabby (Michigan)prison system must be due to sexism. No. And that's a different thing. Black men are most of the time prosecuted because their skin color and sent like they get

Gabby (Michigan)charges against them. But in there's other ways black women face racism specifically. Well, white men are more incarcerated than black women. That's a that's what I'm getting to. There's it's

Gabby (Michigan)different a little bit for the genders within the black community. But the thing is with black women, it's also um they're less likely to get proper treatment in hospitals and things like

Brian Atlasthat. There there's a Yeah, but let's stick to the prison thing. Um Well, okay. Can you explain that? Can you uh reiterate? Well, so my

Brian Atlasquestion to you was uh you're pointing towards the discrepancy between whites and blacks in prison. Mhm. As evidence of racism. And I'm telling you that

Brian Atlasthere's an even greater discrepancy between men and women in prison. So that too should then be evidence that would be due to sexism. Following your own logic? No, because

Gabby (Michigan)that's a whole different thing. That's a gender breakdown, not a race breakdown. But if you're saying a discrepancy exists, right, between the races, yes,

Brian Atlasbetween the races. And you're saying this discrepancy exists because racism. So, you would have to you'd have to acknowledge that there is a discrepancy between uh men in the prison system and

Brian Atlaswomen in the prison. There's far more men that discrepancy is far greater between men and women than it is between black and white. M so this must be due to sexism, right?

Gabby (Michigan)I'd say more or less because most men commit more violent crimes and things like that. There's a higher percentage of men committing violent crime. You sure you want to make this argument? Uh yes, I know. But you're probably going

Brian Atlasto be right. Hold on. But if I were to present to you evidence that uh if there were statistics that showed that black people committed more crimes, would that ex would that then explain away your

Guidanceclaims that it's due to racism uh for the discrepancy between white and black? Depends on the crime. I know it's not my question, but I think it depends on the

Gabby (Michigan)crime a little bit. Yeah. But um I can't really defend that because honestly um I did some research on this

Gabby (Michigan)but not as much as I probably should have which is kind of crappy but um I'd say that's more or less because of the um just higher incarceration rate and also because of other things within the

Natalie Stavolablack community itself like gang violence and things like that. So I mean yes and no. I I don't I do think that there might be some sexism in there for sure. I mean, the we allow men to push

Natalie Stavoladown their emotions and they go bigger, right? Women are doing more small crime and and small things. You get the slap on the wrist. So, there's definitely both cases. You have sexism and racism going on for sure. Yeah. Well, I mean,

Brian Atlasif you look at uh sentencing disparities, right? So there's there's some statistics that indicate uh and I' I'd actually have to do more research to say something definitive uh that there's

Brian Atlasa sentencing disparity. So the length of you know uh the length of the sentence, the prison sentence between whites and black, there's disparity there. Yeah. But the disparity again, not just the

Brian Atlasincarceration rate, but the disparity in terms of sentence length, incarceration length is again uh the the disparity between me uh men and women dwarfs the

Brian Atlasdisparity between white and black. And so often times, for example, uh I mean, look, I could give you anecdotes. You guys could probably give me anecdotes in return. Well, perhaps it's not

Brian Atlasanecdotes, but I mean, uh, and I think this happened in Ventura, Felicity, so I don't know if you like you kind of live in that you're like you live further down south. Um, there was this woman who

Brian Atlaswas smoking marijuana with her uh boyfriend or like h casual hookup or situationship and she had like marijuana induced psychosis. Yeah. And then she stabbed him to death and also stabbed

Brian Atlasher dog. She he he died. She got led off with probation and community service. Wow. I would find

Brian Atlasit very unlikely if a man murdered a woman. Yeah. Even if it was marijuana induced psychosis, whatever

Brian Atlasthat is, uh stabbed her to death that he would get off. Yeah. He would not see the inside of a prison cell unless he's got

Natalie Stavolaa lot of money like a whole boatload. Even then, he's fleeing the country per dog. Oh, yeah. But I think that's two separate things like the sexism thing that's going on where it's like, yeah, I agree. Like it's like, and I think a lot

Natalie Stavolaof us do where women can get away with certain things that men can't and then but then the disparity of race of course is a separate Can I ask for some clarification? Because isn't the question white people can't experience

Joeyracism? So if something Yeah, we can bring it back to that. We got I'm just a little Well, I'm just a little confused. asking because obviously it's not a it's not really like my question or my fight, right? But I'm just wondering so if somebody were to do do a crime because

Joeyyou're talking about prison system against someone because they were white, is that not racism? I I hope I don't sound ignorant. I'm really just trying to That was a good question. That's a good question. No, it is a good

Gabby (Michigan)question. And in that sense, I'd say yeah, I guess um probably yeah, that would be a form of racism. Um, it's just the bigger

Gabby (Michigan)picture is systematic. I'd say more prejudice, I guess, because it's based in just hate and a dislike for that. I guess for that race, though, right?

JoeyMaybe I'm not Maybe I I feel I feel like maybe I don't understand what the word racist definitionally means. I don't know. But so are there any instances where a black person can be racist towards a white person?

Shannon DaveyYou're asking me? Oh, I thought you were squiggly on this cuz you said it was prejudice, right? Yeah, just the word. Yeah, but I'm asking racist. I I agree with what was your name again? Gabby.

Shannon DaveyGabby. How could you forget my home girl's name? I apologize. It's me and my my memory. It's okay. It's okay. Um, yeah, I would

Shannon Daveyjust say I agree with you that it's like racism is systemic and like white people don't face the same type of systemic racism. So other races can be prejudiced

Brian Atlastowards white people, but it's not the same exact racism. Yeah. I mean, there's some counter-arguments here. I think you could argue that affirmative action is systemically racist uh against white

Brian Atlaspeople. Why? Women got so many benefits out of affirmative action. We benefited white women. Well, there there's like there's gender-based affirmative action,

Brian Atlasrace-based uh affirmative action. So you would argue if like uh perhaps uh otherwise uh more merit-based white candidates were overlooked because

Brian Atlasbecause of their race. Uh you actually see this happening a lot with Asian students in particular. Uh so like there's a big scandal with these Ivy League schools, Harvard for example. M

Brian Atlasuh so as an Asian person, you had to score way higher than white people, Latino people, uh and black people to be

Brian Atlasable to get in. So that was like a sort of uh and Asian people are minorities, but they're like they're not the right kind of minority in the in the sense of

Brian Atlaswell they're they're discriminated against in a different sort of way. That's still discrimination. It is still discrimination, but like with Harvard basically, they're like, you know, these

Brian AtlasAsian people are way too smart and we're letting too many of them in. That's but that's that would be a racist against Asian people just in a sort of different

Brian Atlasway. Absolutely. Um but and it's also just unfair. I think the best people the best people should uh get the acceptance into the university. Yes. And and when

Brian Atlasyou overlook the best people, the smartest people and well, you know, we got to do the what is it? The the inclusion thing. Yeah. No one's really doing that. Yeah. I I get what you mean, though. Yeah. And it should be the best

Natalie Stavolacandidate. I think a study just came out um that showed and they did um across the board they did all fake, you know, applications or whatever. Uh but a study over several years u not and I'm not debating anything. I'm just sharing the

Natalie Stavolainformation. Uh but uh they did white and black candidates um all fake applications and they did uh white two four groups, white that had no criminal record, white that had criminal record,

Natalie Stavolablack that had no criminal record, and black that you know what I'm talking about, and then black with criminal record. And what they showed is that a white person with a criminal record was getting more job opportunities than a black person with no criminal record.

Natalie StavolaSo, I I I I get that we shouldn't do a crazy thing where it's like you should just get people in because of No one's really doing that, though. Um, but I think that um here here's something I

Natalie Stavolacan share. I didn't realize that I had a bias. I had an a bias in me and I was coaching. You don't like black people? What? No, not that kind of bias. Oh, my bad. Sorry. Not that kind of bias. I

Natalie Stavolameant like I I I go towards or move towards or select things that look like me. And I didn't know that I was out doing that. Years ago, I was working

Natalie Stavolaunderneath a boss of mine and um she was having me do um the uh the articles. And so she's Latin. I was doing the articles and I was selecting photos for the articles, doing it for months. Thought

Natalie StavolaI'm doing a great job. And she sat me down and she was like, "Hey, let's uh let's look this over." She goes, "Look at the articles I posted and published and look at the articles that you posted and published. Do you see any difference?" I looked at them. I was like, "No, they look good. I think I'm

Natalie Stavolagood doing a good job. And she goes, "Look again." And I'm looking and I can't see it. And she goes, "Uh, Natalie, on mine I have Asian, black, white, I have all different ethnicities and races." She's like, "You only put

Brian Atlaskeep putting in white people." And I was like, "Oh." Oh. So that's I Yeah. So So going back to the I guess the original thing here, people of color can't be racist towards white people. It's it's just uh

Brian Atlaswhen it comes to the definition of racism, you've you've changed the definition to be prejudice plus power basically, right? Is that your definition? And uh it's you've you've

Brian Atlaschanged the definition to suit you so that off well not saying not actually accusing you guys of this, but they've changed it so that your racism or your

Brian Atlassexism can't be labeled as such. But um I think that I look ultimately I think people should be judged as individuals not as

Brian Atlaspart of some group identity. But uh one question to you. Let's say there's a a company and the the CEO is black, the board of directors are black, uh and

Brian Atlasthey refuse to hire uh a white janitor. Would that be racism? Why are they refusing to hire? Just because of the racism? Because he's white. But I'll let you answer. Go

Brian Atlasahead. Those circumstances based in power pretty much. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Why do you feel hesitant to just be like, "Yeah, that'd be racist." It Well, it is

Brian Atlasracist. Oh, okay. All right. And would you agree like would you agree with that if a a black CEO of a multi-billion dollar company refused to hire a white

Shannon Daveyjanitor? Would that be racism? It's solely just based off of his race. Then yeah, probably. Okay, we would call it discrim. Fair enough. But yeah, but

Gabby (Michigan)but but the but go ahead. Let's hear the broader thing for me is just the mainly the systematic issues within racism

Gabby (Michigan)itself. It doesn't b it benefits the white people more than it does people of color. So that's my main

Gabby (Michigan)issue and that's why I see racism racism the way I do. Um M okay. I also just don't think me, well, me personally, because I'm halfway, I don't think I can be racist to white people. So, it's just like

Gabby (Michigan)you can't be racist to your own race. I can't be racist to my own race. Can't you, though? Couldn't you? Wait, but hold on. Wait, wait, wait. Let me give you an example. Someone who's fully

Brian Atlasblack refuses to hire black people because they have negative opinions about black people. Wouldn't that be rap? I think that would be racist. Internalized racism. Internalized

Gabby (Michigan)racism. Well, it' still be racist. I mean, I'm like I'm not racist, so it's just like there's nothing I do that would be considered racist. I don't really know. Well, you wouldn't do racist things because you're not a

Brian Atlasracist, I guess, is Wait, this is going to sound really bad, but I have to I have autism, so I have to actually Are you actually Huh? Never mind. Are you Do you have autism? Are you trying to bond

Brian Atlasover this or something? I'm not autistic. I'm sorry. Oh, okay. So, can you not Don't do it now. I'm just asking can like are you allowed to

Gabby (Michigan)say the N word. Don't say it. I'm just saying like are you There's so much debate about it that I don't even know at this point

Gabby (Michigan)because um people say I'm white passing. I don't know how I don't know. Um I get told I look white passing. I get told I'm I don't look inherently white, but I

Gabby (Michigan)don't look just black either. I look mixed. And the thing is, the thing is is because we're mixed, we don't align with just one race. We're both. And the thing is they expect us to align with one more

Gabby (Michigan)than the other. And it's also just you're not fitting into the groups themselves. Like it's hard to bond with a just white group. And then it's sometimes it's hard to bond with just a black group. And it also comes down to

Gabby (Michigan)like my family as well. I am not close with either side. It's I only have a few people I'm close with and that's just because of my parents. But it's just the matter of fact that I don't fit in

Gabby (Michigan)anywhere and it's just like you're within your own thing. And some people say I can say it. Um other people But have you said it and has somebody gotten

Brian Atlaslike mad at me for saying it? Cuz I mean I can tell like you you look like you're half white, half black like it's not that. Yeah. So I don't know. I don't

Gabby (Michigan)know. And it's just also that mixed people don't really face the exact same racism as darker like as fully black people do. So that's another issue within itself. There's just a ton of

Gabby (Michigan)things. But um I have like had like a few people like be like just like one or two really be serious about me saying it and it was literally just like me lip- syncing a freaking Tik Tok. Um I have

Gabby (Michigan)some in my comments be like, "You're not black." I'm like, "Okay, thank you." But um I do have people uh just like try to be funny saying it like um I'm not going to really point out who

Gabby (Michigan)in my life did this but there's a white girl and she was saying uh Emer around me and I was like you can't say that. And she was like why can't I say you're

Brian Atlashalf white and like it's just if I uh if I called you my Caucasian would you be offended by that? It would just be funny. I mean, I'm

Gabby (Michigan)still like if I dabbed you up. My Caucasian. I would just laugh. I'd be like my white I don't know. My cracker. I don't know. Okay. Avoid avoid the word if you can, but it's fine. Um, it's okay. Yeah, it's

Gabby (Michigan)okay. It's okay. It's Don't worry. You didn't know. It's not a big deal. Um, I mean, no, I'm still Caucasian. I mean, I'm still white. I'm still black. I mean, I kind of I guess I set I set that one up a little bit. Charlie Johnson. Did anyone here choose

Brian Atlasto be the race and gender we are or did we all just get put here and now have to deal with our own choices in this life? My father always said no one chose to be the way they are were born. I say judge people by the content of their

Natalie Stavolacharacter. That's beautiful. Oh my god. Charlie, I love you. Charlie [Applause]

Brian Atlasnotes. Oh, Christopher Murphy. There's a vast generational difference regarding the race topic. Being raised colorblind used to be a virtue. Now we have to kiss the ass of those who look differently from white people. Well, that went

Brian Atlasthrough the other. Thank you, Christopher Murphy, for your message. I'm going to let these two chats come through. We got uh uh Oh boy. Well, it is the roast session, so [ __ ] it. Why not? We got We got to let a

SPEAKER_08couple roast go through. Based Thor donated $69. Sorry, Brian. You need to give credits to your whatever chairs for putting up with the heavy amounts of weights, dump trucks, and

Brian Atlasstacks all these years. Those poor chairs. Do we disinfect the We clean We clean them after the show usually. What kind of

SPEAKER_08incale comment is that? Hey, you're such an incel. That's what she said. Curtis donated $69. I firmly don't believe you can change their race or gender, but maybe

Brian Atlasyour species seems to be transitioning from human to a beached. Yeah, you know, they really getting down. Look guys, I've gained a bit of weight. It's in the, you know, I'm going to lose it, though. It's

Brian Atlascoming off. It's coming off. I've been saying this for years, but it's in the work in progress. What do you do to lose weight? What do I do to lose weight? Eat more burger. Uh, you have to think. You don't do nothing. Wait, what do you I do

Natalie Stavolayou look great. I'm confused. Well, somebody said you didn't. So, you were and you you lost weight, too. Didn't you say you lost like a lot of weight? I lost a bit of it, but I I put

Brian Atlasthat [ __ ] back on. It's a work in progress, though. Yeah, it's a work in progress. All right. Okay. Let's uh do a couple more here, then. Let's see. We have Oh, we did need to do Okay. Uh, a

Brian Atlaswoman's past should not matter. We did talk about body count a little earlier. Moon, you agree? A woman's past should not matter. Uh Gabby, you agree a woman's past should not matter. And uh

Brian Atlasremind me the pronunciation when you when you when when you Yeah. Did I do it right or no? Uh kind of. A woman's past should not matter. This is kind of

Brian Atlasrelated to body count. Uh why do you say that?

Wu (Cassie)Yeah. I mean, isn't that objectifying women? Like if you consider that like if she had sex with different people I I I don't know if it's objectifying

Gabby (Michigan)but uh here what what's your answer? Why it doesn't m her past doesn't matter. Yeah. Um why should a woman's past should or should not matter? Really? It depends on whether or not she's I mean I

Gabby (Michigan)guess changed from what she used to do. Um it's also down to what that person is looking for. If it matters to you then it matters to you. But inherently to me it doesn't matter and I don't think it

Gabby (Michigan)really should matter in the long run because what you do in the past you can't really make up for it you know like what you did like 10 years ago and you bring it up and then someone's like

Gabby (Michigan)oh I don't like you because of that are you the matter was a decade ago you know so I think inherently it's kind of like just a stupid way of thinking is this

Joeyquestion just oh go ahead just regarding body count or just or just like a woman's past in general. Uh, it could be taken either way. Well, I know that we already had like the body count conversation. Yeah, I'm just curious. Body count. I mean, it could it could

Brian Atlasapply to other things, but typically we're just talking about body count. Wait, you do ASMR, right? The rest of the Oh my god. Oh, did you see my hidden ASMR channel? I don't like No, but in the in the notes or I think in your bio,

Brian Atlasyou you do ASMR. The rest of the show you have to do ASMR. So, no, you don't like it for free. No, I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. And then uh Moon, you said not like the weird kind. Um a woman's

Guidancepass should not matter. Why? Why is that moon? I mean, I'll just use myself for an example. If we're talking like, you know, maybe body count and even maybe like criminal history, like you wouldn't look at me and know I've been in jail twice, you wouldn't look at me and

Guidancemaybe, you know, guess my body count. Like I can say that I have a pretty high body count. But like with that being said, like I'm not a criminal. I've never even really committed a crime. um

Guidanceyou know that's part of my past is not who I am now and like yeah I'm a loyal person even though I have a high body count that's okay got it um so here

Brian Atlasactually I want to ask uh you know what we we'll do uh we'll do the body count question we're going to go you felicity

Brian Atlasthen you okay so what's your body count two felicity sorry what two two 27 27 uh do you want want to do the

Guidancebreakdown between men and women. Uh, sure. Um, I would say 10 maybe with the men. 10 guys. 10

Shannon Daveyguys. And that will be what? 17 female. What about you? Last time I was on I said I I didn't answer because you're going to you're answering, right? No,

Shannon Daveysame answer. I just I have a boyfriend and he Do you want to do range? Him? He's my range. Okay. At least one. At least one. Okay. Uh,

Joeywhat about you? One. That's [ __ ] Wait, men and women are separate? Yeah. Separate them, please. Um, I would have to say probably under 25. I haven't counted, but that's my guesstimation. Some of them were

Wu (Cassie)couples. So, under Oh, you've like threesomes. Bodies. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. Uh, what about you? I think I better not say it if I still want to get

SPEAKER_06married. That is That is not true. Not at all. We just Not at all. Here's what we're gonna do. Uh

Brian Atlashe's not going to lie. So we're now engaged. Put it on. So now you don't have to worry like you're engaged. You can just share that. That

Brian Atlaswas so clutch. That was great. Uh do you want to tell us a range? How about that? Less than 10. Okay. So nine. No.

Brian AtlasAll right. Uh, well, I'll say this to that. Uh, where is it? Hold on. Where? What? Wait, what the multiply it by three and that's the real number.

Natalie StavolaGive us give us the give us a range. I have honestly no idea. Did you lose count? Yeah. Okay. Uh,

Natalie Stavolabut I I never counted so I couldn't lose it. I never counted. But yeah. Wait, what do you got for me in this one? What do you got? Is there a

Natalie Stavolanoise? Do you want to Is it above 100? Men or women? Give us the breakdown. I don't I honestly wouldn't even know the

Natalie Stavolabreakdown, but yeah, there's a total total above 100. Above 100. Is it above 100? Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, I said

Natalie Stavolaabove 100. Above 200. Oh, I maybe no sure. I was like, look, Charlie Sheen was a good aim. I was drunk for like 17 years. No, it wasn't Charlie Sheen.

Brian AtlasWait, you were drunk for 17 years? Yes, I was drunk for like 17 years. Every day? Did you drink it? Almost every day. Uh, yeah, it started to get to to that. Okay. And

Brian Atlasuh, good times. Yeah. Yeah. Above uh, was it above 300? I have no This is

Natalie Stavolaspot 300. If I get that noise for saying above 300, sure. Yes, absolutely. Okay. I mean, here here's another one. It's

Brian Atlasover 9,000. Oh my gosh. There it is. All right. Um Oh my god. Thank you for making that fun. That was lovely. That was good. That was good. Okay. So, but it's

Natalie Stavolaactually over uh it's over 300. I Yes, it's over 300 if you're pushing that button. No, no. I messed it up. I messed it up. Zero buttons. Zero buttons. No buttons. I really like that button. Uh

Brian AtlasUh, llama. Well, it includes me and the roast, so [ __ ] it. Three pigs in the same room. Huh? What does that mean? I

Brian Atlasthink it's referencing my weight because I need to lose some weight. Thank you for the super chat. You guys are going ridic. You guys are ridiculous. Uh, did we do the one from Curtis Leone? He said, "I firmly don't believe you can

Brian Atlaschange race or gender, but maybe your species." Yes. And he called me a beached whale. Oh my god. He did. Thank you, Curtis. Appreciate it. I don't It doesn't offend me. It doesn't bother me.

Brian AtlasUh thick skin, I guess. Okay. Uh wait, where? Oh, body count. Okay, we did. Boom. Boom. All right. I think there's

Brian Atlasjust two more things maybe. All right. So, Shannon, you say uh women are oppressed in the USA. Or actually, hold on. We'll do men or No, we're going to

Brian Atlasdo men are more privileged in society than women. You agree? Moon, you agree? Uh, Gabby, you

Brian Atlasagree? Uh, when you did I say right when you going to say here

Brian Atlasdid I do? Yeah. Yeah. What What's your Do you go uh That's your Chinese name, right? But do you go by like Sally or something? You know how like a lot of Chinese students they'll do like, "Oh, my name's Sally." I'm in the linguistics

Wu (Cassie)department, so I taught everybody how to pronounce my Chinese name. Much like people like I can't learn. I will say I'm Cassie. Cassie. Okay, I see. That's

Brian Atlasall right. Always pick the worst like names though. Like it's always like maybe it would have made sense like in the 80s or 70s, but you guys got to get, you know, like do like a crystal or

Brian Atlassomething. I've never heard like a like a Chinese person who's using like an American name. They're it's never like anything new like modern. It's never

Brian Atlaslike Crystal or like Sheniqua or like Dakota. Tena or some [ __ ] Never Tena. You should start sounding like a Py Pablo song. Yeah. Or like Becky or

Brian Atlassomething. Oh, that would be great. Becca. Becca. [ __ ] What about uh Yeah. Crystal or Sapphire or Mon'nique

Brian Atlasor Chastity or what's like a stripper name? Destiny. Destiny. What? No, there's a

Brian AtlasWhat's like the go-to stripper name for a woman? Isn't that it? Crystal. I think it's Crystal. I think it's Crystal. All right. Well, anyways, whatever. Uh, okay. But I think anyone watching now

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