Pregnancy WORSE Than War?! 300+ Body Count?! $1,000,000 To Date Her?! Andrew W! | Dating Talk #243

Date: 2025-05-19

Duration: 8h 55m

Guests

Brian Atlas

SShannon Davey >

NNatalie Stavola >

AAndrew Wilson >

GGabby (Michigan)>

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_02Gabby (Michigan)(guest)

SPEAKER_03Felicity(guest)

SPEAKER_04Natalie Stavola(guest)

SPEAKER_09Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_10Shannon Davey(guest)

SPEAKER_11Guidance(guest)

SPEAKER_13Joey(guest)

SPEAKER_14Wu (Cassie)(guest)

Key Moments

IntroAll guests introduced including Wu (8 languages, PhD linguistics)

Key MomentGuidance: engaged after 6-week courtship. 3 prior marriages. Shunned from JW.

Key MomentNatalie: 8-year sobriety anniversary today (cocaine/alcohol). 300+ body count.

Key MomentAndrew's infinite regress argument on trans identity: if partner has penis and you perform oral, by your definition that's gay

OtherAndrew Wilson departs to sleep before next day debate

Topics Discussed

Guest Introductions

Shannon, Guidance, Natalie, Joey, Gabby, Wu, Felicity, Andrew Wilson.

Octopus Water Incident

Water smells fishy. Brian blames Costco octopus contaminating fridge.

Body Count Discussion

Andrew's grimy dude multiplier. 10 ONS vs 10 failed LTRs trolley problem.

Bow Video and Submission

Brian shows ex bowing. Panel asked if they would bow. Wu: 3x/week max.

Minimum Income Round

Shannon $100-150K. Guidance $300K. Natalie $300K+. Joey $75K. Wu $36K/yr.

Transgender Identity Debate

Guidance: wrong to refuse trans people solely for being trans. Andrew's infinite regress on defining 'woman.'

Body Count Reveals

Felicity 2. Guidance 27. Shannon declined. Natalie 300+. Gabby 2.

Transcript

Page 10 of 10

Brian Atlasalmost exclusively men. the most dangerous jobs, the dirtiest jobs, uh the the most negative life outcomes are

Brian Atlasdisproportionately men. So yeah, maybe it's true that you don't get the the uh the c or what's it called? The uh the the corner window office at your

Brian Atlascompany. It's not even clear to me if like being a wage slave for some company is like this big win. But uh the worst negative life outcomes, it's almost

Shannon Daveyalways men. So it's like you were saying that feminism is like women's advocacy. So we're all men and and also like trying to help men as well, just trying to make things better for majority of

Shannon Daveypeople. And so women are coming together and we're having conversations and we're explaining these grievances and we're usually voting things in to make this change. Whereas it sounds like men just

Shannon Daveywant to maybe just complain about the tasks they have to do in society. And I get your grievances, but like what do you want us to do now that we're listening to them? Uh I don't I don't

Brian Atlaswant women to demonize men. I don't want women to view all men as predators. I want I want I feel like that's a conversation you should have with your fellow man as well. But hold on.

Natalie StavolaFeminism is always like we want men to acknowledge our grievances. Yes. And you want equality on that. You want to also be acknowledged in your grievances, which is great. Yeah. Yeah. This is

Brian Atlasgood. But I don't like once you play open up this game of uh of grievance, then we have to I think it's completely fair for men to be like, "Wait, hold on.

Brian AtlasYou're saying that just by virtue of me being a man, I'm so privileged and my life must be so easy because I'm a man. But the reality is is that's just it's

Brian Atlasjust not true whatsoever. And this idea, it's it's kind of this it's almost it is sexist to just say, well, men are privileged. Men just have privilege in

Brian Atlascomparison to what? In totality of what? Like I think it's a privilege to not have a period every month. I think it's a I think it's a privilege that the majority of women in this country don't

Shannon Daveyhave their genitals mutilated upon birth. And I think we can both have our grievances, but at the end of the day, are you voting to make that change happen? because like we can't vote to

Shannon Daveychange having periods, but you could potentially talk to your fellow brethren about the situation, but instead you're like complaining to us and it's like what do you want us to we hear you and

Shannon Daveywe have empathy for you just like we want you to have empathy for us but at the end of the day like you have to talk to your fellow man about that situation or else us too. This is this this conversation is

Natalie Stavolaactually what helps us a lot because when we hear that you guys wait we we're like wait a minute like it blew my mind when I'm realizing that I had been programmed to believe that men didn't have feelings and emotions. I had to do

Natalie Stavolaa lot of work to realize that I was like oh I need to be more mindful of what I'm telling someone especially with a partner and in a relationship like you do have thoughts and emotions and feelings and grievances and pain and

Natalie Stavolatrauma and like and I watch that. I've seen women destroy men and emasculate and all that. So, it's like, wait a minute, women do have some work to do. Now that we're at the table, there should be some solution. We can keep

Natalie Stavolagoing with the he said, she said, you do this, I did that. But I and but it is it is more like, hey, there are grievances. What's the solution? Um, men asking for help. I don't identify as misandress. I

Shannon Daveyhave empathy and care for men in my life. I have a relationship with my boyfriend and it's very close and I understand his own grievances when it comes to being a man in our society. I do however have friends who are feminists who are misandress. So I

Brian Atlasunderstand what you're saying where you know why would you be friends with a misandress? Well, she has certain opinions but her overall she's a kind human being. Well, you know, she just has differences of opinions. My friend's

Shannon Daveyracist but uh and like hates this group this like you probably have friends who are like ex like extreme extreme conservatives. You don't have the same exact viewpoints as them all the time. Are you still friends with them? Does

Brian Atlasshe like identify as a misandroid? I don't think I think some of her takes maybe go a little too far. I wouldn't say that like mainstream conservatives

Brian Atlasare sexist or rac or racist really. But it depends on who which people most I think most mainstream conservatives have pretty reasonable takes on uh gender

Shannon Daveystuff and yeah but like once you cuz like you know on both sides of the spectrum politically you can go too far on either way. So, it's like you probably have friends who have opinions that are too far, but you're still

Brian Atlasfriends with them even though you don't agree or maybe not. Uh, yeah, sure. I I'm definitely friends with people who have positions that I don't agree with. I don't think I I I don't know if I would

Brian Atlasbe uh particularly inclined to be buddy buddy with somebody who was like demonstrably like viciously racist or you know

Brian Atlassomething like that or like hated like if somebody women like hated women blanketly like misogynist or do you not believe in that term? Well, I think the the term misogyny gets thrown around a

Brian Atlaswhole bunch uh where it doesn't necessarily apply. Um, but if somebody just blanket hated women, I I'm against that. I don't think

Shannon Daveyyou should blanketly just hate women. I think if they like hate that because of their experiences, then I'm just like, oh, that's just a really like traumatized unfortunate event type

Shannon Daveyperson. Mhm. And so they're like taking it out on that specific gender. And I feel like that's a similar conversation we're having where it's like you as men

Shannon Daveyfeel like unheard. You don't feel like you have the same I mean do you feel like as a man you don't have the same opportunities as women like you do you feel oppressed?

Brian AtlasIs that the sense that you're getting from men nowadays? The oppress the pressed word is a difficult one but uh are you saying that in relation to opportunities? Yeah. Affirmative action.

Brian AtlasAbsolutely. Okay. Now, granted, I'm not in the uh like professional corporate world, so I can't speak to that. I'm self-employed. However, what I can tell

Brian Atlasyou is I've had hundreds of men and I've there's there's been uh journalism on this topic. There's been investigation on this topic. You look at what's going on in Hollywood. I have a lot of friends, male friends, white male

Brian Atlasfriends in the entertainment industry in Hollywood. And yeah, there's been affir massive amounts of affirmative action in the entertainment industry and in Hollywood where they're like, "We only want to hire," and I believe, I don't

Brian Atlasknow if it was the Oscars or the uh they're like, "Look, in order for your film to qualify for I know there's incentives for diversity. You need to have 40% or 50% of this demograph, you

Brian Atlasneed some transgender people, you need some black uh dwarf lesbians, you need whatever it is." And it it's just uh there's absolutely affirmative action that's hurting men and hurting white

Shannon Daveypeople and specifically hurting white men. I mean, if if they want to band together to start creating laws and get them passed and like they have every

Shannon Daveyright to do that. Sorry, what don't they have the right to to make laws and get things changed? If if that is such a cross to bear, then like go ahead cuz that's what women had to do, right? No,

Brian Atlasbut hold on. I'm I'm literally addressing your argument. You asked me uh are men or white people or white men losing out on specific opportunities? And if a firm and you're saying, yeah,

Brian Atlasif a if a if corporations either through their own internal policies or there's there's like social pressure or whatever it is through DEI policies or

Brian Atlasaffirmative action is like you can't hire white men. That would seem to that would seem to indicate to me that yes, white men are not being given opportunities.

Shannon DaveyI mean, the same thing could be said for women in the past and for people of color. So, it's like the reason that these things have changed is because there's laws that have like started to create that change cuz people are voting them in. So, if it's such an issue for

Shannon Daveyyou guys, then like why not do the same thing? Vote it in because we can't go backwards. And I mean I hate but it's not even but if there's enough of them who are upset and they want to vote it in then like you have every right to

Brian Atlasright. Wait well hold on but just to be clear. So if you're you would be fine with a company only wanting and this is their internal company policy only

Shannon Daveywanting to hire white men. Personally, I don't approve of that messaging, but if they're able to get it voted in, like if it's if it's hurting such a large group

Shannon Daveyof people and they all collectively decided that they want this law to be now be put in to be more inclusive towards them, then they have every right to do that, right? Well, California, this was on the ballot a couple years

Brian Atlasago, and I think it failed actually, but they were trying to essentially get rid of I forget the specific terminology. Maybe somebody in the chat knows it was on the California ballot. They were

Brian Atlastrying to undo the somebody in the chat maybe help, but basically they're trying to make it so that you could discriminate in hiring

Brian Atlaspractices. But the discrimination that they wanted to do was discrimination towards hiring uh minorities and women and discriminating

Brian Atlasuh in terms of being able to not hire men or white men. Wait, that's dumb. Did everyone get discriminated on on that one? What do you mean? Sorry. It sounded

Brian Atlaslike you said discriminated minorities and white men. Huh? I got a little confused. It sounded like you said discriminated against. Who's getting discriminated against? There's positive discrimination. So

Brian Atlasdiscriminating the discriminating towards I want to hire black people. That would be discrimination in their favor, right? I thought discrimination just always meant that you are against

Brian AtlasWell, it depends on the phrasing, but yeah, you would in in other words, you would be discriminating against white people or white men or men. And it didn't pass. Great. I believe I I don't

Natalie Stavolarecall the outcome of it, but my understanding is it did not pass. Yeah. Well, I mean, I look, I I I understand the overcorrection of things and I and now we're at the table going, "All right, there's an overcorrection and there's a lot of people screaming. How

Natalie Stavolado we do it where the there's more of a meritocracy while also helping out identifying confirmation bias or what's the familiarity bias?" Um, how do you account for that? How do you what's the

Brian Atlasagain, what's the solution? How do you Yeah, sure. Um, hold on. Uh, Moon, you said women are oppressed in the USA. How are women oppressed? Oh,

Brian Atlasuh, didn't you want to? I think I did, but you know, kind of just goes back to like what she said. I mean, child birth periods. Um, oh, maybe you did. By the way, guys, $30 TTS. I'm going to let them come through here in just a moment.

Brian AtlasUm, and you also said women do not have equal rights to men in the USA. Can you explain that? Equal rights? Um, I mean, what? So, so or let me ask you this. What right does a man have that a woman

Guidancedoesn't? Um, you're going to scoff at this, but like the right to not have a child in some states, especially if you get pregnant and you do not want to carry

Guidancethat child. Okay. So, abortion rights. Yeah. Your reproductive right. We don't have, you know, and I think you said something earlier. I can't remember what it was when we were talking about like uh promiscuity and you were like, well,

Guidancebasically my point is one man can get, but let's talk about rights. Let's talk about Yeah. I mean that this goes back to those reproductive rights. Like one man can get a thousand women pregnant,

Guidancebut a woman can only get pregnant one time a year. Like so a woman being promiscuous still does not equate to the social damage of a promiscuous man. If

Guidanceyou're looking at their ability to just procreate endlessly, I mean, you could knock up seven. You can knock up in I mean, as many times as you can, you know, produce. Each of those individual

Brian Atlaswomen would have to, I assume, be promiscuous in order to be knocked up by a like one guy. No, to be knocked up by one guy. How would she be promiscuous? Well, logically, it could be the case

Brian Atlasthat like this one guy has managed to get in a short period of time seven virgin women pregnant. I find this kind of unlikely, but why would they need to be virgins? No, I'm not saying they need

Brian AtlasI'm saying it's possible. And this would point to uh although some people would make the argument that a virgin woman just getting knocked up uh they might consider that promiscuity but like given

Brian Atlasthe low body count I don't know if I would necessarily categorize it as promiscuity but probably if one guy is getting like seven different women

Guidancepregnant I think that would also point it would point to his promiscuity it would also point to their promiscuity. So, like if a girl hadn't had a relationship in three years or a month and she meets you and gets pregnant,

Brian Atlasshe's promiscuous. Yes, I'm I'm agreeing that in this scenario, the seven women that this one man or the seven women that this one man, he's getting them all pregnant, they could all be virgins. I

Guidancethink it's probably unlikely. Oh, yeah. I think that that's it is too. So like then why does the value of promiscuity for women like why is it so high when we we can't go out and get other people pregnant is there besides the abortion

Brian Atlasthing and that thing is there anything else in terms of rights? I'm going to just stick with those rights that men have that women don't. Okay. And then finally this is the final thing then the chats then we're out. Uh Gabby you said women are oppressed in

Gabby (Michigan)the USA have. Actually want to change my stance on that now that I thought about it. No one benefits from society these days. No one does. Everyone's a victim. There we go. The rich people are are the

Brian Atlasonly people benefiting from anything. I [ __ ] with that. All right. Sweet. So guys, we're going to do the roast. $30 TTS. If you want to get it in, we're get it in. All right. Reap what you so

SPEAKER_08donated $30. Thank you, man. This is why women can't be dating coaches. The dating coach chose bear over man and doesn't know the difference between a biological male and female. Choose

Brian Atlasanother occupation. California Prop 18 or 16. These are great. All right, we have professional victim.

SPEAKER_08Uhoh. Oh boy, they're roasting me. Professional victim donated $30. Brian, if you want to lose weight, join the army. Yep. Just got back from basic training and lost

SPEAKER_08£30. The only incentive for women to join the military is citizenship and money. Thank you, ma'am. PB 133 donated

SPEAKER_08$30 half. They gave me half a N card. They didn't give you the half end card. Nah, man. I got the full one cuz my dad

SPEAKER_08cuz my dad. Ang says Roar donated $29.99. Thank you. Nothing any of you has said is oppression, which is defined as

SPEAKER_08prolonged, cruel, or unjust treatment or control. I had twins vaginally and the pain was like cramp sex 10 and my

SPEAKER_08epidural failed three times. Christopher Murphy donated $30. I'm over it tonight. I hope my donor can get on the show one day. That would be awesome.

SPEAKER_08That'd be nice. Thank you. Thank you, Christopher. Appreciate it, man. We got a few more coming through. Get them in if you guys want. This EB95 donated $30. On note to the child birth versus war.

SPEAKER_08As a nurse for 8 years, we all have different pain thresholds. Some women go through child birth like a breeze. Some women don't. We also forget the pain and

SPEAKER_08want more. Base Thor donated $30. How you going to call me the insane? Thank you. Have you looked at yourself in the mirror? I bet you can't wait till June

SPEAKER_08cause that's your only month to shine. Too bad ICE can't deport whatever you identify. Also, Lulu donated $30. Feminism wants to

SPEAKER_08erase the [ __ ] that women have to take. But the point Brian is making is that men have to take [ __ ] no matter what. Men can't opt out of the [ __ ] they have to take. Stop complaining.

SPEAKER_08No one's complaining. No one's complaining. Thank you, Lulu Lulu. And then we have Carl Chers. Carl Childers donated $30. You were talking about Prop 16 earlier. That was what was defeated.

Brian AtlasAlso, child birth ain't [ __ ] compared to rounds coming down range killing your friends and brothers. Yeah, I'll just pull this up really quickly just cuz it came into the conversation earlier. And

Brian Atlasuh All right. It was a 2020 California Prop 16. Uh, it was a failed California ballot proposition that appeared on the November 3rd, 2020 general election ballot asking California voters to amend

Brian Atlasthe Constitution of California to repeal Prop 209 from 1996. Proposition 209, excuse me. Proposition 209 amended

Brian Atlasthe state constitution to prohibit government institutions from considering race, sex, or ethnicity, specifically in the areas of public employment, public

Brian Atlascontracting, and public education. Therefore, Proposition 209 banned the use of race and gender-based affirmative action in California's public sector, and public university admissions. Scroll

Brian Atlasdown. Uh, and then that was just right there. Uh, so it was it was pretty close. Uh, so yes, they wanted to uh they voted in favor of it. No. So it's a

Brian Atlaslittle confusing because uh they basically said originally they're like you can't consider race. So like if the person's

Brian Atlasblack, this is back in 1996, if the person's black, you can't use that against them. Or if they're woman, you can't use that against them. you can't discriminate on the basis of their race

Brian Atlasor sex. But then with Prop 16, what they're trying to do is they're trying to say, "No, we do want to be able to hire people based on their race or

Brian Atlassex, but this typically dealt with minority groups." So, we said it's basically they wanted affirmative action. Does that make sense? It looked like they wanted a repeal of affirmative

Brian Atlasaction. Uh, no. So, I got you. Yeah. Affirmative action was essentially disallowed. Oh, and they but they wanted to employ affirmative action, but this meant they

Brian Atlaswanted to allow for discrimination. So, the previous law said discrimination is illegal, but they wanted to allow discrimination. Yeah. But in a way that

Natalie Stavolathey view discrimination as positive. Sure. Right. I got you. I see what you're saying with Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that happens all the time, especially in California. You have all those uh props and everything. People get really confused on them cuz

Brian Atlasit's tricky language. Sure. All right. This is the final one. It looks like Mar go home. Great final check. Go home. Oh, that was Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh guys,

Brian Atlasif you enjoyed the stream, like the video, please. Also, drop on your way out. If you guys can check, go to twitch.tv/ whatever. Drop us a follow. Drop us a prime sub. Uh drop check check a prime, guys. It's been two hours. Oh

Brian Atlasmy god, Lizzy. Two hours ago. Uh it's been two hours since a prime sub. I think it's bugged, boys. Check if you can drop a prime sub. Check if you can drop a prime sub over there. See if you have one available. All right, guys. Like the video. Also, join the Discord. Also, get yourself some big labia matter

Brian Atlasmerch. Shop. We've got some great stuff there. All right, guys. Thank you so much. It was a very long stream. Thank you to the panel. We went This was a long stream, so you guys are all uh dope. I think it was a really good panel. It was a lot of

Brian Atlasfun. This was a fun show. So, thank you guys. I really appreciate you guys uh being here. And we'll end it with uh GG. Well played. Uh thank you guys for tuning in tonight. You could have been

Brian Atlasanywhere in the world, but you were here with me. I appreciate that. Hit the like button, please, on your way out. Thank you to everyone who super chats, donates, and supports the show. We couldn't do the show without you guys.

Brian AtlasWe're viewer supported. We don't get sponsorships. Half our stuff gets uh demonetized, age restricted, all this stuff. I'm My Twitter's all messed up.

Brian AtlasI'm demonetized on Tik Tok. Facebook's demonetized me. Um, damn. I don't even think I'm monetized on Instagram. I don't really Anyways, whatever. So, we

Brian Atlasrely on audience support and I'm I'm uh incredibly grateful for the amount of support generally, but especially tonight. You guys absolutely killed it.

Brian AtlasYou guys are legends. Thank you. Okay. Any girls who want to be on the show, you can DM out whatever on Instagram if you can make it to Santa Barbara. We're going to be live tomorrow. Oh my god, I can't believe I debate tomorrow. [ __ ] Okay. Oh my

Brian Atlasgoodness. Okay, we have a debate tomorrow, then the show on Tuesday. Andrew Wilson in the building. We will be live again Sunday with another dating talk. 5:00 p.m. Pacific. 07s in the

Brian Atlaschat. 07s in the chat. Thank you guys so much for tuning in. Hope you guys have a good night and we will see you guys next time. Good night, guys. 07's in the chat.

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