Pregnancy WORSE Than War?! 300+ Body Count?! $1,000,000 To Date Her?! Andrew W! | Dating Talk #243

Date: 2025-05-19

Duration: 8h 55m

Guests

Brian Atlas

SShannon Davey >

NNatalie Stavola >

AAndrew Wilson >

GGabby (Michigan)>

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_02Gabby (Michigan)(guest)

SPEAKER_03Felicity(guest)

SPEAKER_04Natalie Stavola(guest)

SPEAKER_09Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_10Shannon Davey(guest)

SPEAKER_11Guidance(guest)

SPEAKER_13Joey(guest)

SPEAKER_14Wu (Cassie)(guest)

Key Moments

IntroAll guests introduced including Wu (8 languages, PhD linguistics)

Key MomentGuidance: engaged after 6-week courtship. 3 prior marriages. Shunned from JW.

Key MomentNatalie: 8-year sobriety anniversary today (cocaine/alcohol). 300+ body count.

Key MomentAndrew's infinite regress argument on trans identity: if partner has penis and you perform oral, by your definition that's gay

OtherAndrew Wilson departs to sleep before next day debate

Topics Discussed

Guest Introductions

Shannon, Guidance, Natalie, Joey, Gabby, Wu, Felicity, Andrew Wilson.

Octopus Water Incident

Water smells fishy. Brian blames Costco octopus contaminating fridge.

Body Count Discussion

Andrew's grimy dude multiplier. 10 ONS vs 10 failed LTRs trolley problem.

Bow Video and Submission

Brian shows ex bowing. Panel asked if they would bow. Wu: 3x/week max.

Minimum Income Round

Shannon $100-150K. Guidance $300K. Natalie $300K+. Joey $75K. Wu $36K/yr.

Transgender Identity Debate

Guidance: wrong to refuse trans people solely for being trans. Andrew's infinite regress on defining 'woman.'

Body Count Reveals

Felicity 2. Guidance 27. Shannon declined. Natalie 300+. Gabby 2.

Transcript

Page 2 of 10

Brian Atlashooked up or a guy you hooked up with We didn't hook up. We didn't hook up. Well, I'll read it as you wrote it, but one time a guy you hooked up with dated

Brian Atlashooked up with and dated lied to you about his age because he knew you wouldn't get with him if he told you his actual age. Okay. I thought it was

Gabby (Michigan)something else. But yeah, he lied about me. Lied about his age to me. He was uh two years younger than me. Oh. How old were you? I was I was 17 turning 18, but

Gabby (Michigan)I was very strict on how like much younger I dated because I have a little sister. He's in the same age range as her and that's just weird. So 17 going

Brian Atlas18. So he was 15. He was he just turned 16. Okay. And you were 17? Yeah. Okay. So all right bothered me. No, that's I mean he I don't think there's Is is

Gabby (Michigan)there an issue there with the a 17 with a 16? I mean, not not necessarily, but it's just more The issue was he lied. Yeah. And then it was just uncomfortable with me cuz just weird. Okay. Uh, you

Brian Atlassaid that traditional You think traditional values that are pushed onto men and and women in relationships? Wait, hold on. Was there more to that?

Brian AtlasI don't remember. It's been a minute. Okay, here. I'll pull it up directly. Uh,

Brian Atlaswait. Oh, you had a guy try to tie you up with a bandana. Oh my gosh. Oh, wait. That Wait. Okay. How did somebody get tied up with

Gabby (Michigan)a bandana? A miscommunication. He took things the wrong way. Oh, we were watching a show. Yeah, someone does. I made a I made a joke about something that was happening on TV and then he was like, "Oh, you want me to tie you up with a banana?" and then started to get

Gabby (Michigan)up and grab it. And I was just like, "Are you talking about No. No. It was just weird. Odd." Did he tie you up with

Guidancethe bandana? No. No. Oh, no. Was it cuz it was a bandana and not rope that or maybe maybe Okay. Uh, and the Okay. So,

Brian Atlasgoing back to this though. So, it was any dating topics or takes you want to speak on, if so, what? to which you wrote, I think traditional values that are pushed onto men and women in

Brian Atlasrelationships or otherwise. So, are you against traditional values that are pushed onto men and women or are you in in favor of them? Not necessarily. I mean, it's I think it's really up to

Gabby (Michigan)what the people like the people in the relationship wants, but when you're trying to push that agenda onto people who aren't practicing that, that's when it gets negative.

Gabby (Michigan)I see. Okay. Uh what negative how I guess I mean it's like it's just judging people for living

Gabby (Michigan)their life the way you don't want to live it I guess like it gets like let's say a girl's out sleeping with multiple people not in a relationship and then someone who like is in a long term they

Gabby (Michigan)just start hating on that person I think you just mind your own business cuz it's not your life I guess things like that. Do you think it should be that way just with strangers? What about people that

Gabby (Michigan)are like in your family? I mean, in your family, you can advocate it, but it gets like if you can advocate for having a better dating life, but it if you're pushing it in a way that's shaming them

Gabby (Michigan)for how they're doing things, then it's inherently negative, I guess.

Brian AtlasOkay. Um, so if somebody I'm trying to think of an example here. Uh, if a guy didn't want to date a woman because of her body count and he

Brian Atlaswas he prescriptively was like, "Yeah, that's a bad thing. People shouldn't be promiscuous." Would you object to No, cuz that's his preference. That's what he thinks. Yeah. that he's trying

Brian Atlasto instill his like he's trying to uh put out to the world like don't do that. Well, I mean you can

Brian Atlasadvocate for it. Okay. Mhm. But if you're calling someone a [ __ ] because of it, then that's where it gets foggy.

Brian AtlasGets foggy. Okay. And then uh I noticed in some of your Instagram photos you wear a cross. Are you Christian?

Gabby (Michigan)Um, not necessarily. No. Um, I'm trying to get back into it. I was a Baptist for uh most my life and uh I just fell out

Gabby (Michigan)of the belief when I was in middle school and recently I've been wanting to get back into it. Got it. Okay. And then you also wrote uh Oh, as far as

Gabby (Michigan)disagreements with the show, you said you had a lot, but you can't pinpoint all of it. I can't pinpoint it because I just have a really bad memory. Like I can't remember. Uh, okay. So, uh,

Gabby (Michigan)you said probably his opinions on body count. What are my opinions on body count? Well, I can't remember, but I think it's just like the fact that it matters, I

Brian Atlasguess. I mean, it does, but it doesn't. What's your body count? Two. Okay. Um, so I guess why does it not matter? If

Andrew Wilsonyou're not, if you're looking for someone with low body count, then look in that dating pool. Let me let me ask something different, too. If you

Andrew Wilsoncount like BJ's, fingerings, all that stuff, does your body count change? Goes up by like one. Okay. So, it does

Andrew Wilsonchange. I wouldn't add it. I would include that in the body count. Well, I'm just curious. I'm just curious like is the criteria for body count just penetrative sex? No, cuz I think that rules out a lot of Yeah, because then

Brian AtlasYeah. Then then Yeah. Then like homosexual women that wouldn't be a body count then, right? This is a good point. Well, I think you would you would have a separate category. But for the heterosexual body count, I think

Brian Atlasstrictly would refer to intercourse. So if a chick was like, "Brian, I'm a virgin, but I sucked 100 dicks." That would be like you know, she'd be really good at it.

Brian AtlasSo, that that could be judged, but I wouldn't consider it a body count. That's still it's still not good. It's still not great. I think

Shannon Daveyif you suck a dick, you got to add that to the body count. Well, you just reminded me with the hundred BJs. Um, I do want to just reminded you of something, didn't I? Yeah, I want to

Brian Atlastalk about Bonnie Blue at one point today. Okay. Sure. I mean, I'm pretty sure like half the things she she does and says are just lies just for I've

Brian Atlasseen her Twitter clickbait. Yeah. I mean, she faked a pregnancy. Like both those Bonnie Blue, who's the other Den? Lily. Oh, Lily. Yeah. just uh I think they do some DGEN stuff, but I think a

Brian Atlaslot of it is just like, oh, I'm going to do the most like claim I did the most salacious thing or, you know, I I I don't think they actually do a lot of degenerate stuff. They claim they do.

Brian AtlasI've seen some. Yeah, I don't I haven't purchased anything, but I've seen it on Twitter, but I think they sensationalize some of this stuff and they just make it up because they're like, "Oh, I don't have to actually do the thing. I can just say

SPEAKER_01I did the thing and still receive the benefit. Do you think that that chick Vonyie is really in her 20s? No, I think she is, but some people just I don't think she is. I think you think she's in

Brian Atlasher 30s. I mean, she she could be lying about her age, but I don't think she's in her 30s. Uh, early 30s, but I think she's in her 30s. I think she's had some work done,

Brian Atlaswhich makes her in the face. I don't know. I don't know. Uh, reminded me. Oh, the 100. Uh, but so wait, where were we?

Brian AtlasWe're Oh, the the BJ, does that count towards body count? I mean, like I, for example, Andrew, I wouldn't say a woman whose body count is zero, but she's

Brian Atlasgiven 100 BJs is nearly as desirable or the same as a woman who's had who has a body count of zero and is also given uh

Brian Atlaszero BJs. So, okay. So, hang on. But I wouldn't I wouldn't categorize as like a uh as a body. But what if she's only had one body, right? Given zero BJs or anything, and

Andrew Wilsonthe other one has zero bodies, but it's given 100 BJs. Which one would you select for? The one with one body. Yeah. The Right. So then, so then So, so yeah, you see what I'm saying? So it seems

Brian Atlaslike you do categorize it as at least on par or something close to on par with it. You would Yeah. But I mean, I could I would say like, okay, a woman who's

Brian Atlashad three bodies, but she it was like uh it was group sex is could be arguably worse than a woman who has three individual partners or even like four or five like individual bodies, but they

Andrew Wilsonwere like long-term because but because of the nature of the act, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah, I understand that. But I just think that like if a if you like finishes in a chick's mouth, like I'm just going to count that as the same thing, dude. I

Brian Atlasjust count as the same thing. Yeah, that's fair. I I mean perhaps you could ask it would be fair to ask a clarifying like okay well if your your your sex body count is this what's your

Brian Atlasjob count I guess but I wouldn't call it a [ __ ] maybe we could throw it in there but I've when I think of body count what's the count what's the blow count the blow count you know

Brian Atlaswhat may you know maybe there's been a lot of a lot of uh you know the girl claims it's a lot of the virgins virgins who have high count, but the but the

SPEAKER_01oral sex count very high. [ __ ] I need to like it's a like it's a DUI thing, right? It's like, you know, did you blow six? Did you blow seven? Right, for the DUI. It's true. That's a good Well, you

Brian Atlasknow what though? Here's the other thing that I've uh Oh, I have I had something on this is so and maybe the panel the women on the panel could weigh in on this too is so there's the body count,

Brian Atlasright? You could have a girl who has a body count of one and a body count of one. But if you look at the specific guy that each of those women was with, that

Brian Atlascould have an impact. Like even if it's she has one, she she has one, if they dealt with a just like a filthy dude,

Brian Atlaslike just a scumbag. Like I'd almost like a grimy like a [ __ ] grimy dude. That's just an amplifier. Like if it was I don't know like who's a [ __ ] grimy

Brian Atlasdude like Lil Xan or Tekashi69 or like NLE Choa or the Island Boys. Oh my Wait, Mary, Google Island Boys. Yeah, Google images just so just

Brian Atlasso the girls here know what I'm talking about. If a girl's been with a grimy dude, that's like an amplifier. That's like 3x. You got to 3x the body. The I don't Yeah, I don't think it's just like

Natalie Stavolawho she slept with with that one, too. I think you're also questioning why she's with that person and if she's overcome her trauma and like if she's addicted to

Brian Atlaschaos. These what? These guys. Can you like uh like open a new tab? Yeah. Thank god I'm gay. If a girl has

Brian Atlashad sex if she's only had sex with one of the island boys, that's like 30 bodies. She might as well have a body count 30. Yeah. It's a 30x 30x

Brian Atlasamplifier. So that's another component of the body count discussion where if she [ __ ] a grimy dude. You got to count all of his. Okay. So one more question. Do we have the photo

Andrew Wilsonor one more question about this? What about what about times? So if it's like a girl's slept with two guys but only once each but slept with one guy a hundred times. H.

Brian AtlasUh huh. That's an interesting Well, it could almost go both ways, couldn't it? Because on one hand, a one night stand is kind of grimy. Yeah, it's pretty grimy. Uh but

Brian Atlasthen whereas the other one you would say, well, it was like a long-term committed monogous relationship. But then yeah, [ __ ] Was it? I don't know. That's a Yeah, depends on I I would frame you

Brian Atlasknow what here's how I' here's how I would frame this, right? And there's probably variations based on like if you start going more if there's like more. Uh so it'd be something like

Brian Atlasthis. If a girl has one body and she slept with a guy one time versus she had a boyfriend and she slept slept with him a thousand times.

SPEAKER_01Honestly, I would prefer the girl who just slept with the guy one time. Okay. I know. Yeah. And then I'm number two. Yeah. Okay. But what if it's three?

SPEAKER_01Three. One time. Yeah. Three one time and then a chick with one guy with one guy like a thousand times. Really? Even if it was a long-term relationship being monogamous and safe,

Brian Atlasyou're just like, "No thanks. I want the one night." No, I'm not. Hold on. I'm not saying I wouldn't date I'm not saying I wouldn't date her. I'm just saying what would be more preferable. Yeah. So the the I'm not excluding the

Brian Atlasone in the long-term relationship in the the one v one example he gave, but so you're saying three one night stands versus one. I'd pick the one in that situation. Me too. I'd pick the one in that situation. I'd pick me too. But if

Brian Atlasit's like equal for equal. So but then if it starts getting what? Okay. How about this Andrew to you? Uh 10 one night stands or 10 long-term relationships where they had sex 100

Andrew Wilsontimes each? So how do you know they had sex? Can you have 10 long-term relationships? Say she's like 35 and she's had uh Sure. N at that point I would take the 10 one

Andrew Wilsonnight stands by 10 night stands. Interesting because the long I mean if you're in a long-term relationship that's failed nine times. That's a problem, right? That's a bigger red flag than than just have Oh, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01That I didn't think of it that way. But yeah, that would be Yeah. But then I mean the other one's not great either. No, it's not great either. Neither. Yeah. Well, this is you got to push the button, right? Right.

Brian AtlasYeah. This is the This is the body count trolley problem. This is the the body trolley problem. Is it like Yeah, it's a little weird. It's like low quality or whatever. Go ahead. You can

Brian Atlaspull it up super quick. If you had to chew and you had to pick Oh god. Um, don't they? Yeah. If if a girl was a virgin but [ __ ] one of these guys, I'm sorry. That's that's 30x amplifier. I

Brian Atlasthink it's also cuz they're from Florida. It couldn't Florida man at all already. Like I mean chat chat do you agree like if they if a girl has sex with a grimy dude it's a it's like a

Natalie Stavolaamplifier. It's like an X. It's a multiplier. I feel like this should apply to guys too. Oh yeah. Yeah. If you if you're if you are sticking your something in something nasty and you like that's that counts. What would be

Natalie Stavolathe I I wonder what who's like a grimy chick. Oh, we got plenty. Who's a grimy? Name one. There's a lot right? I don't know. Oh, I don't know. The ones that I think are bad though probably aren't

Brian AtlasCome on. Who? Who? Oh, I mean we could have we could use her example like if you knew a guy had Well, it's different though cuz girls like

Andrew WilsonOkay. If Do you guys know who Lily Phillips is? Yes. Bonnie Blue. Yes. Okay. They they I keep up. She does. I know. Sorry. I don't like anybody seen. That's pretty grimy. That's over the top

Shannon Daveythough. Like she's worse than the Island Boys would be the other way. Brooke Candy is like an island boy but as a woman. Well, there you go. I'm not sure who I get that picture in my head. I'm not sure who that is. Uh, all right. Uh,

Brian Atlaslet's see here. But so, uh, going back to you, what what were the disagreements? I guess I guess I can't pinpoint them. You say, but pinpoint. Go ahead. Pinpoint. What do

Brian Atlasyou mean pinpoint? Go ahead. Body count. So, okay. of what you just heard and we were talking about grimy uh women sleeping with grimy dudes. You

Gabby (Michigan)no push back there. No, Island Boys are disgusting. They're disgusting. They I'm pretty sure they did Only Fans together too or had something on Twitter they did that. That was disgusting. Yeah, I've

Brian Atlasseen I saw like a video. No, that was absolutely disgusting. But like if a girl tells me that she like slept with a famous rapper, I'm just like h

SPEAKER_01multip that's a 30x multiplier on the body. But what if it's famous? What if it's famous rockstar? Oh, also bad. Yeah, but which one's worse to you

Brian Atlasthough? Jean Simmons. Uh, rock stars actually have talent. So, I'm going to I'm going to have to say uh, you know.

Andrew WilsonUhhuh. It's although so so you're going for Metallica so you're going for like so you're going for like Metallica fan girl over Diddy fan girl. Uh it would be

Brian Atlaslike who's like a I don't know who who's Do you listen to rap music? Yeah. All right. Who's like a big rap artist right now?

Brian AtlasIs he's married or like Drake or something? Oh yeah. If a girl [ __ ] Drake. Yikes. Um, yeah, cuz then she has

Brian Atlasat least good taste in music. Like if she [ __ ] like if she [ __ ] like Axel Rose from Guns and Roses or some [ __ ] Like Yeah. I'mma give her Although, man, that guy's he's been around since the

Shannon Davey80s, so that's a rough one. I have a question. Is it different for you if she actually like was in a relationship and dated a like famous musician and then they broke up? Like it wasn't just a

Brian Atlasone-time thing. Well, the body is still grimy. Mhm. Okay. Cuz they still slept with the dude. Um I don't know if it really changes that much. Oh, but here. Okay.

Andrew WilsonBut hang on. If we get Oh, boy. All right. If we get back if we get back to the B question here, right? If they blew one of the island boys, wouldn't you consider that the same thing in that case?

Brian AtlasYeah. Nah, it's still bad. Don't get me wrong, it's still bad, but it's like it's it's the uh what's it's like the progression

Brian Atlasof worseness. So, like if if they just like held hands, then kissed, then uh like second

Brian Atlasbase, oral sex, uh full, you know, sex. It's it's the progression of disgust.

Brian AtlasOh, the disgust progression in the room. I think that shit's just as gross, dude. Oh, it's it's bad. Yeah, I think it's just as bad. I'm putting them both in

Brian Atlasthe same category. Okay. No, but but so when we were talking about like is it a body, I wasn't even attributing necessarily to is it as bad or not. There could be some dispute over whether

Brian Atlasoral sex is in terms of the disgust response is as bad as sexual intercourse.

Brian AtlasUh, it's disputable, I guess. Uh, the girls are loving this conversation. Go for it. Here's the I mean, it's

Brian Atlasdating related. Yeah. Wait, Spyro did a algorithm here. I can't even parse this. Okay, Spidey, this where's the oral

Brian Atlastime? Oh, well, maybe she's linguistics. All right, one night stand. Thank you, Spyro, for the Oh, updated math. He did the updated. Thank you, Spiral. I I

Brian Atlascan't even parse that. I don't even um Wait, did he include it for the the grimy? Is there was there a grimy back up? Just use your order of operations. I lost it. It got uh Let me see. It got unstarted.

Brian AtlasYeah, use your order of operations. We'll figure this thing out. So, look, ladies, me and Andrew here have just been talking about grimy dudes and body counts. Are you guys going to push back at all on it? You guys seem to really love it. You seem very entertained by

Joeygrimy back because I think we're all kind of in agreement. But the thing is though, how are you going to know if somebody who's maybe not famous but still equally grimy? Like there are men out there who sleep around crazy and don't talk about body count. So like I

Andrew Wilsonget you're having the discussion about it, but it's like I don't know how to like Well, women don't women don't have the same intuitive disgust about it that men do. That's the interesting part. You

Andrew Wilsonthink? Same disgust. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is in what way? Yeah. Yeah. So, um, paternity tests, those are pretty recent inventions, right? Yeah. How would men

Natalie Stavolaassure paternity before a paternity test? The way that they looked when the Bobby when the baby came out. How else what would be the best way to assure that the child was yours? Make sure that

Andrew Wilsonyou're the only one having sex. The only one, right? So, for the for the assurance of reproduction, for the purposes of survival, right? It's it makes sense why men have this kind of

Andrew Wilsonlike revolt carriage to women with multiple men. They want to assure that that's their offspring. They can't assure it's the offspring. It also is detrimental to the mother because then

Andrew Wilsonthey can just deny it, right? It's not mine. You slept with multiple men. So that's it. That's why that revolter disgust is there for men. It's not You don't think that that's societal in

Andrew Wilsonthere too? What do you mean? Um I don't know if there's this is just what you find. socially when you when you you know when you give different polls and different questions between the sexes.

Andrew WilsonCorrect. It's not that women don't care about it. I'm not saying that. Right. And some women really care about it. Just that they seem to care about it less than men care about it with them. Or a different reason why. Like for

Natalie Stavolawomen it'd be protection or safety because if you have someone that revulsion, right? We But we might Yeah. So if you use that terminology with someone, a guy might go revolted. women, we might forgive more or something or we

Natalie Stavolamight look at a a different angle. That would tell me that it's just not as as prominent of a deal breaker as it is for men. Or if we maybe if you just did how you ask, you know, cuz I do think that there's women that are going to be like, I don't want a guy that's sleeping

Andrew Wilsonaround too much because I don't want to catch something or I don't want to. Let me like here I'll show you a big distinct difference that I think will maybe change your view on this. So if you tell a guy, well, you know, there's

Andrew Wilsona woman and she's 28, 29 years old, right? And she's still a virgin. They think, well, that's a pretty good catch, right? 28, 29. But the flip side is is that women will often reject men at 28,

Natalie Stavola29 who are virgins because they think, "What? What the [ __ ] is wrong with this guy? That no woman wants him." So that happens often to men. Um, I don't know. I've seen it in in coaching. It just depends on different societies. And then

Natalie Stavolaalso I have a lot of clients that are 30s and 40s who are virgins. Mostly men though, right? Just just I I coach women too. Just just one sec. We'll come right back to it. Jungle. Yo, Jungle, guys.

SPEAKER_08W's in the chat for Jungle. Pop Champagne. Yo, Brian, what up? Pop that bottle. Andrew is going to need it with all these lesbians. Thank you, brother.

SPEAKER_08Mr. Ba bringing all the race jokes to life on the other side. Uh, who wants party? Who here wants champagne? Crucible. Champagne. Champagne. Yeah, thank you. No, I'll take some. Yes.

Brian AtlasSorry, you can't have any. Yes. Yes. Uh, so wait. Yes. Yes. Yes. Wait. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. So, five total. Yo, Jungle, thank you so much for the champagne pop, man. You're welcome.

Andrew WilsonThey uh, by the way, they better not be. And if they are, they should probably shut that stream off and and be done with if if they were to do something

Brian Atlasthat stupid, you know, they should probably not do that. Just saying. Just Oh, cuz it's on your channel. Just saying. Probably should probably shouldn't be doing that. But Jungle,

Brian Atlasthank you so much for the uh champagne pop. You're legend, sir. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right, we'll get this pouring. Uh sorry, you guys can continue on with your conversation. So, you were talking about your clientele

Natalie Stavolaand how they don't care. Um, I think it just depends. It um, as far as for being a virgin, um, I if the guy is insecure about being a virgin, he'll naturally go

Natalie Stavolaum towards and by accident date women who will say something like that, right? But the more he heals from that insecurity, the more that all of a sudden he's naturally around people that really don't care. Uh but as far as

Natalie Stavolasocietal, we've noticed that certain countries don't necessarily consider body count or care. Like Spain, Spain for instance, women are very much so

Natalie Stavolamore um sexually dominant there. Um they even go half on the bill or pay the bill is usually that kind of so some of it societal, some of it's very primal of

Natalie Stavolacourse like you want to make sure that you're procreating that your seed is that's yours. So of course there's something to it on that one. So, I think it's also how you phrase the question to someone. All right, let's do a really

Natalie Stavolaquick I don't know if it I don't know if it would be how you phrase it. What do you mean how you phrase the question? If you ask a woman, hey, would you care if you were um dating a guy and he was sleeping around with a whole bunch of women, you know, when uh while you guys

Andrew Wilsonwere in a relationship, I'm sure she's going to have like a repulse factor in that, right? Yeah, of course. Um but that's not really what you would ask, right? So what the qu what the question determines like if you're asking

Andrew Wilsonprevious partners, right? So if you I think if you were to keep all things equal, right, and you were to say to um any number of different women, there's a

Andrew Wilsonman here who has a 100 body count, right? Versus there's a woman here to the same equal amount of men who has a 100 body count that the men would be far more revolted by that than the women. Sure. And I'm just saying with that one,

Natalie Stavolasometimes we notice that that's has a little bit to do with society like in Spain compared to here for instance. But yes, you have you have that for sure. I'm picking up on on a lot of words like you said uh primal. I think you said

Guidancesomething about like when you're selecting a mate to to procreate and everything. Like for me, body count and like putting value on anybody, male,

Guidancefemale, whatever, um based on who they've touched or not touched, like we're making equations and trying to figure this [ __ ] out. But like at the

Guidanceend of it, like we're not in BC era. We don't have to pick mates on how much they don't have to because well, you can go get pregnant by yourself as a woman without a man even being involved. So, I just feel like we're at this point.

GuidanceWell, no, you definitely can't get pregnant without a man being involved. Well, you got to have some sperm. So, I guess what I mean is without intercourse or without worrying about where how many persons that man or woman have been

Guidancewith. I just think that putting value on a person because of body count is so not 2025 because like we don't have to do that anymore. Yeah. But it's it's still

Andrew Wilsonpart of a survival mechanism. So for men or heterosexual men or everybody? Well, I'll explain it. Okay. So, human beings really quick before you take a sip. We got to do a cheers and then Oh, cool.

Brian AtlasUh, cheers. Saloo to uh jungle. Welcome to the jungle. Thank you. Appreciate it, man. Woo. So, human beings are pattern recognition

Andrew Wilsonmachines. That's how we live our lives. Patterns change. Just keep going. Sorry to interrupt. How do you know they change? Um, that's evolution, sir. Right. So, so, so you know patterns change because they don't fit the

Andrew Wilsonpattern that you're used to. Yep. That's how right that would be the way. So, if you if you're a pattern recognition machine and you notice a pattern between people who do in, you know, do this type of behavior, right? This is what I see with them. people who do this type of

Andrew Wilsonbehavior, this is what I see with them, people, etc., etc., etc., etc., the reason that's ingrained inside of you to do to make those risk calculations is so that you can survive and thrive long term. And every human being does this,

Guidancelike all of them. I in ways I get. Yeah. But, you know, I just feel like as society advances, some of our mindset has to advance and change, too, because like we're not out here catching AIDS

Andrew Wilsonand STDs as much as we used to because we have those STDs. STDs are at an almost an all-time high, I believe. Like they're increasing. They're increasing. In fact, STDs we almost got rid of.

GuidanceYeah. Are now back with a bang. That's interesting. So that to me that says that more, you know, I may be wrong. No, this is just like a personal opinion. Like maybe if STDs are kind of on a rise

Guidanceor not going down. I mean, it seems like promiscuity is in in a way because people who have STDs are obviously still having sex and having sex and having sex. So some consider it a very

Andrew Wilsonimportant but there's there's reasons though right like it may be well there there could be trends you could point to that promiscuity is going down actually but but what is going up is things like sex work and the amount of people are

Andrew Wilsoninvolved in sex work that's a place where you would grab a lot of STDs and get them out to the general public right your risk assessment for that is way way way higher so that's the case you wouldn't actually need general societal

Andrew Wilsonpromiscuity to go up just a small portion of the society to engage in high-risisk behavior and then move it out. That's what happened with HIV for instance, right? Same thing. It was a small subset of the population, but they were heavily promiscuous that moved out

Gabby (Michigan)to the the other subsets of the population in a way. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's also because there's a lack of sexual education in schools now. Yeah. Um No, there's not. M well where I'm

Gabby (Michigan)from I h I I took a sex ed class fourth grade just because of puberty and I had one one semester of one in seventh grade but my high school never taught it. My this middle schools I used to go to they

Guidancedon't teach it anymore. I don't know anyone who's younger than me who gets taught sex ed anymore. My son is 17 and he had no idea what that was. He goes to a local high school and he's like no no no one's teaching them condoms and STDs. That's part of the general curriculum

Andrew Wilsonfor most school. It definitely should be. I think it's so it's the areas, but also it's not like, you know, I've never really bought this the the there's not enough sexual education in schools. There was a huge

Andrew Wilsonprimary campaign run on that throughout the '9s and in the early 2000s and it didn't do anything. Nothing. And here's the thing, convincing me that the average 13 to 15year-old doesn't know anything about sex and maternity is

Natalie Stavola[ __ ] insane. You're going to learn things. You can Google things now. I I don't I I with sex education and everything, it's like you're not going to really understand a lot of it until

Natalie Stavolayou experience it or make the mistakes and you won't even hear it anyway. A lot of it too, like trauma. Trauma has a lot to do with whether or not you're escaping in sex. And that's at any age. So, you know, you can tell someone all

Andrew Wilsonday long, you shouldn't do this, you shouldn't do that, but they're they're going to I think trauma is a cope. I think that So, what here's what I think. I think that a lot of women utilize the trauma excuse for their promiscuous past

Andrew Wilsonwhen they really just wanted to get [ __ ] down by a stud and they what they do is they cope about it and they're like, "No, see the reason that I went down and got [ __ ] down by so many studs is because my trauma that happened

Andrew Wilsonwhen I was when I was younger, this bad thing happened to me and that's what made it so that all these handsome men just had to [ __ ] me, right? Maybe the younger ones the older ones are owning it." So I hang on. So, I hear that and I

Andrew Wilsonthink to myself, uh, you know, maybe not. Maybe it's not the fact that you were traumatized, but the fact that you just wanted to have sex with a lot of good-looking guys. I mean, that

Guidanceabsolutely that can be that can be healing in ways. I think so that like if a guy said like, "Oh, I just had a really bad breakup and she really broke my heart." And you know, like, "Oh, I'm back on the streets." You know, the boys will be like, "Yeah, yeah, get back on

Guidancethe streets." You know, but like when women do that, like you said, it's kind of were you really hurt? Like does this is that really a trauma response or are you just being wow? Well, what it is? Yeah, it's coping. What it is is they're going they're doing this. They're going

Andrew Wilsonlook my dating chances drastically go down because I've slept with like and now the numbers areing astronomical like 50 60 70 guys, right? I've slept with that

Andrew Wilsonmany guys. When people when people realize that 60 70 [ __ ] I mean dudes. Well, you got me Brian. So clip and shift. That's what they'll that Yeah. That's what they'll say, right? Yeah.

Andrew WilsonAnd so if they do, right, their their chances for having like the kind of more high status man, especially in their 30s going to greatly decrease in comparison to women who haven't. So if that's the case, like they have every reason to

Natalie Stavolamake an excuse to cope about it to be like, "No, it's not my fault. It was some trauma that I had that got treated." This type of thing. Yes. And no, it's um if you're still engaging in that behavior. So, if there's a quality man who's healed and he's ready for marriage and he's dating a woman who

Natalie Stavolaobviously you can tell if someone still like doesn't love themselves and they're acting out and they're seeking love and validation from other men, then sure. But if someone men get healed, I think they get I think they get tired. You can

Natalie Stavolado it. Yeah. I think they get tired. I do we do NLP and hypnotherapy with my with my guys. Hypnotherapy is [ __ ] There's a little bit. All it is is hypnotherapy. All it is is that you go in and you can rewire, reframe some

Andrew Wilsonmemories so that you're not as freaking loaded by the least scientific form of of especially any sort of hypnosis. But the thing is interesting about this

Andrew Wilsonis like they don't men it's not that men uh are coping or get healed. They're not healed. They just get tired of it. So playing the field for men who can, right? It's fun for a little bit and they just get sick of it. And it's not

Andrew Wilsonthat they're healed from they weren't traumatized, right? They're like, "What are they traumatized from?" "Oh, I had sex with a bunch of beautiful women. Oh my god, the trauma. Oh, the trauma." No, that's not where trauma comes from. Of course, they're not trauma. That's not trauma, right? They're not trauma.

Andrew WilsonThey're not traumatized by it all. They're sick of it, right? And they're the same thing with women. They do get in some ways traumatized by women, but mostly it's just they're sick of women's [ __ ] right? Well, sure, but that's not trauma. Well, what is trauma for

Natalie Stavolathem? Trauma is when you're like if you're getting actually abused, beaten, um hurt. Like I've had clients that were like for men actually dated narcissistic women which is surprising not surprising

Natalie Stavolafor me but a lot of people don't realize that men can be in abusive relationships right psychologically abused physically abused. Yeah. And they can hold those scars over. They can go through terrible divorces. But no dating a bunch of women. Yeah. But I'm talking when I talk

Andrew Wilsontrauma I I mean that I don't mean the superficial coping [ __ ] I mean actual Yeah. the amount of women who express that they've been traumatized and then you find out what they've been traumatized by is just the same regular roll [ __ ] that most every human being

Natalie Stavolahas to go through. I'm like that's not trauma, that's cope. Oh yeah, cuz now right now with you see like influencers right now. I have such a grip with this one. They they take the word trauma, they take word narcissist, they take the word and they overuse it to the point

Natalie Stavolawhere when you are actually having that or having trauma or having abuse, it's like it's gotten so blown out of proportion that you know the people who actually do need help or do actually have it. Well, actual narcissists are

Andrew Wilsonrare. And so what's happened is there's that every woman on planet Earth thinks she's a psychologist. I have no idea why, but they read something online about narcissistic tendencies and traits and don't realize how common the the

Andrew Wilsonmiscalculation between confidence and narcissism is. Oh, that was a confident man who was assertive and aggressive in his boundaries. I don't like that. So, he's a [ __ ] narcissist. It's like, no, that's not a narcissist. Correct. Yeah. So, that's a that's a very common

Natalie Stavolafemale cope. Yeah. I think that's I think that'll change when we have more females talking to other females about that one. Like, no, you can't you can't say that, Becky. How would that be the

Andrew Wilsoncase when like the whole field of psychology is completely inundated with women? It's like saturated with them and they mostly treat women. Men don't usually seek psychological help because

Andrew Wilsonthey have the boys. They go out with the boys. They grab the coaches, right? They do that stuff. They're not grabbing many female coaches either. They're grabbing They're grabbing their buddies. They're grabbing their pals. They're grabbing their groups. Maybe they might not tell

Natalie Stavolayou. No, most men are not. I mean, most men by the Yeah, there's a lot just like most men by the numbers boot camps all over the world with men, right? But what I'm saying is that they're not going to female psychologists. They're not even really going to No, but that's why I'm

Natalie Stavolasaying I'm not a psychologist. They have that like nice little I'm a coach. So, for me, if they're coming to me, it feels a little bit less like, oh, I'm I'm not going to someone cuz I'm messed up. I'm not going to a psychologist. Although, I do encourage it. I think

Natalie Stavolathere's talk therapy doesn't help with certain things, but it's great to talk things out, but there's different modalities of like CBT or EMDR or, you know, whatever it is. Um, so yeah, I think most women seek out psychological

Andrew Wilsonassistance from psychologists so that they can learn various forms of manipulation in order to manipulate whoever it is they're trying to manipulate and they want the assistance from somebody who's a professional at it. Yeah. Weaponizing. So, it's weaponizing therapy talk, right? We have

Andrew Wilsonmen that do that. But anyone, anyone who's traumatized, who's not really or an a-hole or whatever, who's not willing to take a hard look at themselves, oh, they're gonna go in there, they're I look at the numbers though and I look at the numbers of women who seek psychologists versus men, it's overwhelmingly women, and it's

Andrew Wilsonoverwhelmingly men women in the field. So, can you always make the case, oh, the other sex also engages in that? It's like, yeah, but to the degree of it, it's not even close. Yeah. Unless they Google it. You can Google, you can Google all day long and not have to go

Natalie Stavolato someone and spend money and $300 a pop to go to a psychologist to learn the jargon. You could just Google it online. True. It's everywhere on Instagram, you know. Well, psychology is a study of the mind, right? I've never even considered

Andrew WilsonI don't consider it even scientific. I never have. It has scientific elements for data gathering and things like this, but sure, it's not itself a science. That's why it's considered a soft science. Soft science. Yeah. I would

Natalie Stavolajust not science. They learn, they learn, they learn more and more. It's it's nice that it grows. I mean, I remember back in the day when I was in psychology courses and they we thought back then that you only use 10% of your brain. And I mean, that's what we learned back then. They didn't know. And

Andrew Wilsonthere's so much more. It's just a growing because what happens is a sociological study will come out that has no reputations to it. Has not been replicated. But because it's the most modern study, everyone will reference it as though it's gospel. Within 2 years,

Andrew Wilsonthe reputation comes out. But what? Everybody inside of their mind, they already have this bad information. Right. Right. Yeah. They already have the bad information. I still hear people say we only use 10% of our brain. I still hear people say that left-handed

Andrew Wilsonpeople are more creative. I still hear people say that people with blue eyes are generally taller. I see people say all sorts I see people I see people say all kinds of crazy [ __ ] right? That has

Andrew Wilsonbeen refuted, repudiated, completely decimated for years and years and years. within the decade of reason. They

Natalie Stavolastick with psychology. It's a complete building block of lies. Psychology. But that's the thing is that psychology isn't that building block of li. It's the fact that you can take a zoom out and look at the fact that that's a pattern. We talked about patterns

Natalie Stavolaearlier. Patterns do I do agree patterns actually repeat. It's what human behavior doesn't necessarily change. our circumstances might or our the way things look might change but there's a pattern to that. So over the years every

Andrew Wilsondecade has some sort of bad information that gets you know caught up with but it's way worse in sociology and psychology you're talking 60 70% of the studies suffer from the replication crisis. All science suffers from the

Andrew Wilsonreplication crisis but the hard sciences very low when you go back to Yeah. When you go back to replicate a a chemistry experiment, sure, really easy. You take this chemical, this chemical, this chemical, you put in the same

Andrew Wilsonconditions, right? The human element is very confounding, especially when you're not studying the direct biological. So, they go out to replicate the sociological studies like 70%, in Canada, it's worse. Canada was worse was like 80% plus. They couldn't replicate

Andrew Wilsonthe studies if they got the same participants, the same scientists, and and and uh the same control conditions. So, it's like, why the [ __ ] would I ever trust any science? It's 80% wrong or 70% wrong

Natalie Stavolaor 60% wrong. I don't know. I I I do that too because I remember people were talking about Freud for a long time and that guy was [ __ ] nuts. I hated him. Yeah. But but wait a second. He made psychotherapy and he did a lot of

Natalie Stavolahypnotherapy. He did. He did. He did. We took a lot of that and hopefully you grow. Hopefully you learn. The one thing that I like about it is like hopefully you can take a mistake and learn from it and grow from it and do better. But I mean there's there's some cool elements. Take what you like, discard the rest,

Guidanceyou know, and that's that's about it. I think it goes back to control because like what we were talking about with the body count thing and even this like it's unpredictable. You can't quantify it.

GuidanceYou can't hypnotize it. Like we keep trying to put these calculable elements on dating and love. And like my mindset on it all is it's not like it doesn't matter how many people you've had sex

Guidancewith. It doesn't matter. I won't say your trauma, but like we're trying to calculate the human experience, especially relationship wise. And it's incalculable. Like you don't wake up and you say, "I'm gonna eat eggs and I'm gonna eat eggs every day for the rest of

Guidancemy life and I'm gonna have a pizza and I'm gonna be bad if I have pizza." You know, like your genitals are not one-time use. Because if that was the case, the first person you linked with or had sex with, you would only be able

Guidanceto orgasm with them. You would only be able to procreate with them. Like we have multi-use organs, but we try to make them single use or monogous. And that's cool if you find that, but I just

Guidancefeel like biologically speaking, we're not even biologically set up for Yeah. But if you can't if you can do a thing, it doesn't mean you should do a thing. Yeah. I mean, and that's very And not only that, like I I think that you would

Andrew Wilsoneven agree that not really like there's a lot of calculable risks that you intuitively know. Like you've heard this advice from your parents for instance, right? Don't date someone who treats you bad. Something simple, right? You would

Andrew Wilsonbe looking for patterns for bad bad treatment, right? So there's like no way around pattern recognition, especially when it comes to dating and things like this, so that you can mitigate risk. You go, "Oh, you're treating me bad. Don't

Brian Atlasbe if the person treats you bad." Right? That's that's calculating risk. Uh quick thing here. We have two champagne pops. Jeez.

SPEAKER_08From jungle. Jungle donated $1,000 pop champagne. Get another one. Brian and Andrew was just a light jokey

Andrew Wilsonjoke. They all good. Jake is keeping it classic for the crew. Jungle. Jungle. Okay. It is. Okay. So, Brian moderately

Andrew Wilsonquestioned your integrity briefly, but I did uh explain to him that your integrity is not to be questioned. Well, you if if we get like crazy uh first

Brian Atlasoff, if it's legit, and I'm assuming it's legit, it's legit. Uh then that's this guy's a [ __ ] legend. Thank you, Jungle. I'll just We gotta be careful. Somebody's like they could just like try

Andrew Wilsonto screw us over and just be like do a credit card dispute or something. But um except that that guy sent like $20,000 to the Crucible. Never disputed a single thing ever. Yeah. So So maybe it's so like a little faith in my my boy Jungle.

Brian AtlasNo. Yeah. I just wanted to clear clear that up while I was asking. But yo, Jungle, you're [ __ ] legend. And we're about to pop. I I had to have my my girl because we're we're actually out of champagne. You you tapped us, Jungle. But so she had to go down. She had to go

SPEAKER_08get some more champagne. And by the way, so you did, too. You're a legend, sir. Jungle donated $1,000. The legend. Pop champagne. Thank you, man. Keep him coming, Brian. Papa

SPEAKER_01Jake is keeping it lights and classic. We good in the hood. Oh, it's one of these weird win. Not one step back and one SB. Oh, no. It's one of these weird ones. This a good time

Brian Atlasfor me to get a smoke. All right. Yo, Jungle, you're a legend. You're a legend. All right. Thank you, Jungle. Appreciate it, man. I'm in the cross. By the way, Jungle, if you want to do some

Brian Atlassome [ __ ] top Giga Chad [ __ ] by the way, join our Discord. Uh when you do Champagne Pop, you get a free legendary roll on the whatever Discord. That's discord.gg/what whatever. Uh we have

Brian Atlascrypto options. I don't know if you're a crypto guy. We have Ethereum. We have uh crystalall which is uh let's see if I can show it here. Oh, is it not on the

Brian Atlast? Oh, here it is. Uh this is a ball of empty bottle of crystalall and uh you can for one ethereum will pop a ball of crystalall uh which is it's like a $500

Brian Atlasbottle. So very nice bottle of champagne. So we have those. All right. Um while I'm getting this popped uh I'm trying to Oh [ __ ] Don't want to get

SPEAKER_06while I'm getting this popped. Uh, Felicity, go ahead. Take over. Um, all right. You got this, Felicity. We

Natalie Stavolabelieve in you. Oh my god. Um, oh, is this just Oh, that makes me nervous. Oh god. Wait, hold on. I got to do this off camera. I know.

GuidanceHow old are you, Felicity? Sorry. I'm 19. 19. Oh my god. Okay. You're How old did you think I was? I mean, in your 20s at least, you know, you look very mature. You're closer to my son's age

Felicitythan mine. I get like mixed mixed opinions. Like some people think I look really young. Some people think I'm like 24. I'm like, I'm not 24. I just turned 19 like not even a month ago. So, happy

Natalie Stavolabirthday. Thanks. So, does body count still matter for like your age group? Cuz I'm old. So, I know, right? But then again, as we get older, we don't care. Even the guy I got to say this, the guys that I coach honestly once they start

Natalie Stavolahealing and stuff, they really literally don't give a they don't care. There's some people that will, I'm sure, of course. And there's some people that will, but there's sometimes it's just you you just you you care about more about the person. Yeah. I've honestly

Natalie Stavolanever encountered someone who was like, "Oh, I have an issue with body count." Now, I don't date very often still. I have not. I would prefer someone to have like the same body count as me if I'm going to date them seriously. Well, you're younger, too. I can't imagine a

Natalie Stavola19-year-old being like, "I've had 500 women." You're like, "Yeah, in what time? In what time are you going to school? Do you have hobbies?" If you're dating like an older person who had like three times your body count, I could see

Felicityhow that would be like that. I would understand more like if I was dating someone that was a few years older than me. I understand they had But um perspective. Yeah. I I'll thank you for that answer though. That's Yeah, you'll have some. I'll have

Guidancesome. So, what what are the age demographics for like most of your clients? Cuz my I have two boys and once I get married, we'll have eight boys in between the two of us. So, just like as

Natalie Stavolaa future husband, mom, you know, moms like what are the age groups of clients that For me, I coach anywhere from 18 to I have a client uh in his 80s, mid 80s. I have a couple actually have a few

Natalie Stavolaclients in their mid 80s. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Like I've never heard of um a coach that handles that kind of thing. Honestly, I didn't either. I didn't really know about it. I knew about Tony Robbins, but I didn't know that I that this kind of thing existed.

Natalie StavolaI knew about pickup artists a little bit. Um, but no, I got sober eight years ago today. Actually, today's my eighth year sobriety date. Congratulations. Thank you. I just like took a cake for eight years and then came here. What

Natalie StavolaWhat was your poison? Uh, uh, alcohol and cocaine. A And then pretty much whatever anyone had in their hand. It really wasn't I was like that whatever put it in me. too. Um, do this part. But

Natalie Stavolathen, uh, I I was doing odd jobs. I had a great resume, but I was just I had to heal so much. And then eventually um, I was debating on going back to getting my um, masters and PhD. Um, but it just I

Natalie Stavoladidn't like the idea of being in school for that long. Um, and so I just waited. And then I had a friend of mine call and she was like, "Hey, we've got a friend. She's a dating coach for men. I think you guys would be a great fit." Cuz I was always helping people. I was always helping men. I was always guiding. I was

Natalie Stavolaalways giving advice, right? And then all of a sudden it was like, "Oh my god, this is a thing." And then honestly when I started coaching is when I started really

Natalie Stavolamassive. I learned so much by coaching men. I was like, "Wo, we're a lot more similar than I thought." And then I w up continuing my education and doing like NLP and all that. Yeah. Can I tell you that I'm always I'll just be honest with

Andrew Wilsonyou, I'm always skeptical of dating coaches. Me, too. Are you kidding? So I So they suck. A lot of them opposite. Sorry. There's a lot of great ones. So, if I was, let's say I woke up tomorrow, right, meteorite hit my house and wife

Andrew Wilsonwent through the wife, she's dead, right? I'm single with my kids tomorrow. I wouldn't have a [ __ ] clue about the modern dating market and I wouldn't give a [ __ ] I would literally just give up. I'm fine with that. Live the rest of my

Andrew Wilsonlife in isolation on a mountain top somewhere and just enjoy the [ __ ] out of it. I'm fine with that. Honestly, sounds great. But here's the thing is like when I when I talk to the dating

Andrew Wilsoncoaches, it seems very scammy to me. Yes. It seems very much like uh they fluff the resume for how many success stories they've really had. It seems like they kind of fluff their

Andrew Wilsonexperiences. And here's what I mean by this. My dad gave me a great piece of advice when I was 14 years old. He said, "Never take financial advice from someone who's broke." Right? So, if you're talking about dating coaches,

Andrew Wilsonshould people take advice from single dating coaches? Yeah, it's dating. I'm dating. I'm in the pool, but I also have amazing relationship. I get that. But like, doesn't that follow the same logic

Natalie Stavolaof like don't take financial advice from people who aren't rich, but you you answered it. Would you take dating advice from someone who's dating, you know, who's in it, who sees it, but who's also had good. But also you're

Natalie Stavolasomeone that discerns like you're someone that like for you personally you might not need it because you're reading people you're you are an analyst you're not going to be as but the marriage like the marriage aspect shows that you were

Andrew Wilsonsuccessful in the dating right? Oh yeah I do I mean yeah my shows like I was just like the million dollars shows that you were successful in the financial market. So it's like when you say well I'm in the dating market I'm successful

Natalie Stavolaat dating. It's like what's the prize of dating though? Isn't it marriage? Does that generally be the prize? Well, what happens with a lot of them is um and I get this a lot. So, I'll have a program that's called from like toxic to triumph and I do career as well too. Like I do

Natalie Stavolahave multiple careers and I I I have success in there. So, I do get to pass that on. Um but the main thing is also like what I help a lot with is stop dating the toxic ones, the ones that you

Natalie Stavolaactually don't like, you know? So, like all of them. Yeah. Right. So, a lot of them stay single for a while. know you're like a financial advisor but for love and relationships and we do careers

Andrew Wilsonwell too. We do uh I get to unblock in in in there on like so I I read and again this is my studies right so you take it with a grain of salt as well you

Andrew Wilsonshould but uh some some some data is better than others uh that you can judge better than others like if it comes from a dating website it's usually fairly good it's not great but it's usually

Andrew Wilsonfairly good there's less bias things like this um but one thing is like there used to be dating placement agencies so what they would do and there they still exist. Yeah, they still exist. Yeah.

Andrew WilsonYeah. Is that they would just like link people up for dates, right? And then, you know, let the chips fall where they may. When it came to the track record of those agencies versus straight dating coaches, those agencies had a way better

Andrew Wilsontrack record because what they were doing is putting people with people, with people, with people. And it's like it's it's the natural course that if you run into more people, your chances for

Natalie Stavolasuccess increase versus decrease, right? So they come to me when they go to those pools, but they keep picking the ones that don't work out. Then we find out why you're picking, you know, this

Natalie Stavolaperson over here versus if you actually want a quality woman who you're aligned with, who you would get married to, but yet you keep dating the ones that are, you know, having good times with the island boys like what why do you keep getting around those? So we identify why

Natalie Stavolaare you around those women that are in those parties versus if you want a quality woman, where would you go? And then I could point him back to like, well, go to this dating pool or go to this one or do this one or tweak your bio this way. You know, you think men or women are better at dating coaching for

Natalie Stavolamen? I I think both, honestly. I think as long as you you know what you're doing and you care cuz I I think men or women would be better dating coaches for women.

Natalie StavolaI again I mean for all right look for me personally if if if it's a guy and he's wanting advice on a woman you're going to you're we read we read women a little bit faster but for me like there are a

Natalie Stavolacouple my girlfriends that I'll go to cuz they they they speak dude and I'm I'll go to them they give it to me straight there's no fluff but if I'm dating someone or if I have questions about it because I have my own blind sides right I have my own like things

Natalie Stavolathat'll come up I'm going to go to a guy cuz guys you guys do read men a lot faster. You think it you you are in it. So I typically I I do like that. But I'll I'll go to both and hear like what

Natalie Stavolathey both have to say. But So I mean it would stand it so it stands to reason to you that men know men better. Women know women better. Yeah. I I can't say that like as a complete thing cuz you you know you can you you know you can read women and there's women that can read.

Andrew WilsonWell, there's an interesting phenomenon here that's interesting, right? This is why I ask. Yeah. What are you setting me up for? Well, I'm not even setting you up. It's just it's just this is this is a trend that's that I see a lot. If I

Andrew Wilsonask a female dating coach and they answer both ways, right? Usually female dating coaches will actually say women are just better to go to period when it comes to dating coaching because um you know the advice for women it's better

Andrew Wilsonand then the advice you get from men, they don't you know um it's not as good, right? They they'll just kind of phrase it this way. Yeah. Now, there's some who, like you, will say, "Well, you should go to to men if you're a woman

Andrew Wilsonbecause they're going to read men better, or you should go to a woman um if you're a man, cuz they're going to read women better." Right? But here's the problem that comes up is that women are way worse at holding elongated

Andrew Wilsonrelationships with each other than men are with each other. With friendships? Friendships. What does that have to do with relationships? Well, that's what's interesting, right? Is like everything, all of these aspects are interpersonal.

Andrew WilsonSo it just means interpersonal dynamics, right? Correct. So a friendship is still it's an interpersonal dynamic and friendships actually take in some cases more work than than a relationship. My

Natalie Stavolalongest right now I just messaged with her over 20 years, right? But what I'm saying is like men I agree with that. I think that you should look at what are your relation but men do generally better in interpersonal relationships than women do. Shouldn't men and women

Natalie Stavolaboth go to men for relationship advice? I think it just depends on the person interpersonal relationships with women and men. I mean, we're not going to go down on the street and just grab any man and be like, "Help me with my dating advice." Like I I think it just depends on, you know, if the guy if the guy is

Guidancegood, he's good. If the girl's good, she's good. you know, but again, you're going to be able to read them and just read them and hopefully they're not full of I go to my girlfriends, you know, my my friends who are female for more

Guidanceemotional um you know, like social advice, you know, not that we are not intellectual because duh, we are. But if I was having a relationship issue, especially since I date girls mostly, then I would maybe go

Guidanceto my guy friends or something like that for more like analytical advice. Like I feel like y'all see it from that um more you said primal earlier. I'm going to use that phrase but because it kind of fits but

Guidancenot really. But I feel like men see the world and women and relationships for more of that like primal thing like how do I mate? How do I you know provide those things and then women see it more

Guidancefrom like that emotional like you know how do I make sure I have a loving partner? How do I find a supporting partner? Things like that. So I think again we just go for me it goes back to love and dating is uncalculable. So I

Andrew Wilsonthink I think that what are you looking for? One of the best piece of advices in modernity for men right and you can you can love this or hate this is that generally speaking taking advice from

Andrew Wilsonwomen about anything is a terrible idea. Basically always a terrible idea and it's what women are you around who hurt you. See what I mean? Like that like the

Andrew Wilsonthe feminist comes out right away, right? So who hurt you? The idea the idea of who hurt you comes down to your blanket idea, your psychological training of trauma, right? You you assume that there must be some trauma. There's not trauma. It's just pattern

Natalie Stavolarecognition. No, but it' be your pattern recognition. Everyone's got a different pattern, right? Because you do have a lot of guys that like if they grew up with a lot of women, then they actually do tend to go towards more women. And if they had like a if they had bad, right?

Natalie StavolaBut if they had a bad relationship, like I have a lot of guys that um if they had abuse from men or bullying from men, they actually don't trust me. Immediately to a trauma analysis rather than a logical analysis. That would be logical. That would be logic. No logic.

Natalie Stavola1 plus 1 equals two. If my friend group of men is mean and I go to them and they give me bad advice, then I'm not going to go to them. That's logic. That's 1 plus 1 equals two. Yeah. Yeah. That No. Well, hang on. There's a distinction

Andrew Wilsonwhen you use a analysis, a trauma analysis, meaning the first the very first thing you said to me is who hurt you. Was that the first thing I think we've already analy said something the second I said something you disagree

Andrew Wilsonwith, it was who hurt? Now, you'll find this trend with women, right? The second you say you make a claim that they think is effective women as a category, instant trauma response. Must be trauma.

Andrew WilsonWho hurt you? What happened to you? Emotional. what is this thing that uh that triggered this, right? And it's like actually there doesn't always have to be a thing. In fact, there most most often isn't. You can just use logic and reason to assess the situations around

Andrew Wilsonyou based around the social relationships people have and determine that women usually give really [ __ ] bad advice, especially to each other. Especially to each other. Uh but men, generally speaking, especially older

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