For The PERFECT Man, She WILL NOT Take His Last Name/Quit Her Job?! Jay Dyer! JB! | Dating Talk #242

Date: 2025-05-12

Duration: 7h 50m

Guests

Brian Atlas

SSophia (OF LA)>

CCharlie Campbell >

KKelly Vargas >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_03Kelly Vargas(guest)

SPEAKER_04Charlie Campbell(guest)

SPEAKER_06Kyla Turner(guest)

SPEAKER_07Hyasin(guest)

SPEAKER_08Sophia (OF LA)(guest)

SPEAKER_09Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_10Jay Dyer(guest)

SPEAKER_12Jim Bob(guest)

SPEAKER_14Lexi (Baker)(guest)

Key Moments

IntroAll 8 guests introduced

Key MomentSophia: ex con-artist stole SSN, spent $20K+, faked stalking emails

Key MomentJay Dyer vs Kyla Turner erupts: 32 interruptions vs 7. Brian asks them to say one nice thing.

ControversyKelly refuses to take man's last name even for trillionaire. Extended double-standard debate.

Key MomentJay challenges Kyla to name philosophy books; she can't recall titles but discusses content of 5 Plato dialogues

Topics Discussed

Guest Introductions

Hyasin, Kyla Turner, Lexi, Sophia, Charlie, Kelly, Jim Bob, Jay Dyer.

Sophia Con-Artist Ex

Ex sent fake stalking emails, stole SSN, spent $20K+, hacked socials.

Jay Dyer vs Kyla Turner Philosophy Debate

Extended debate spanning 2 episodes: feminism, patriarchy, relativism, Agrippa's Trilemma, Kant, Plato, Nietzsche. Chat counts Jay 32 interruptions vs Kyla 7.

Last Name Debate

Kelly refuses to take husband's name even for perfect trillionaire. Central double-standard flashpoint.

Body Count Round

Charlie: 13 (7M, 6W). Other guests decline.

Bear vs Man

Sophia and Hyasin choose bear citing SA experiences.

Transcript

Page 2 of 9

Jim Bobconversation. Yeah, I would say um even myself uh if if my wife owned land or we co-owned land or or she already had land or something like this. What I'm

Kyla Turnerpointing to is that ultimately the ownership of that I'm going to we're both going to rely on an enforcement arm. That's not going to be feminist. Yeah, sure. That just has nothing to do with what I was asking you. But I I understand like you want to go back to the enforcement arm. You

Jim Bobreally like that argument. But what's the but what's the further logical line that you're asking when you ask about property is if you think women should have the right to own land. That's all. Because you thought that would back up feminism, right? Nope. Cuz I'm genuinely

Charlie Campbellcurious if you guys think women should own land. Do you think that women should be able to open a credit card in their name? I thought that I think that was a bad idea. I think that would have happened in 1970. Uh roughly. Yeah. I

Jim Bobthink the the consequences of that being that women now hold 75% of consumer debt. And I don't think debt is pretty good for people. I don't think it's a thing that they should uh be okay with. I think people should generally work

Jim Bobagainst debt, whether they're a man or a woman. Maybe lower their debt. I think the burden of debt adds to some stress. I think it it could actually add to some some uh instability uh and and things

Charlie Campbelllike that. So, and let's say hypothetically women weren't allowed to get a credit card. Um most of history. No, no, for sure. I'm just saying that well credit's relatively new but that's

Charlie Campbella whole different conversation that we can be having. Um you're basically saying that I'm trying to think sorry I'm trying to like phrase the words. Um it's just

Charlie Campbelldebt. How is credit? No. No. It's what if a woman like in her own time like this isn't like a requirement that it should be so. I'm saying on her own time she did her research and she got a financial literacy class. You're basically saying, "Well, you can't have

Charlie Campbellit anyway, even if you're more financially literate than other men or than men because you're a woman is basically where you're going at." Because what if she is financially literate? Cuz you're making a broad statement saying women shouldn't have it

Jay Dyerbecause they're not financial. What if they are? So, once again, this is like the third time you've argued that the exceptions should make the rule. This would really be an exception based on history. Her exception was a woman who went and studied and got an exception

Jay Dyerthough, right? is women who study economics better than men is an exception. She's asking the line of kad. It's an exception. Her example is an exception. It is just accepted. It's an exception. It's not an exception. You

Kyla Turnerare. Okay. I know what an exception is. I do. Do you know what is her is how many women go and get economics. You want to talk to me. You have to allow me. You're just going to interrupt. Nobody up here. You're looking I've already talked about you. I know you

Kyla Turnerthink this is sick dunk. Hey, we're over here. I often look up when I think that's fine apparently. So, do you want me to answer you? Uh, is that an exception? It's not an exception. Why? Because it's completely normative to

Charlie Campbellassume that multiple women can go and get financial literacy. Well, you know, if you're wanting her to stare you in the eyes while arguing, why don't you take your shades off? Because I am so much on drugs right now.

Kyla TurnerOh my gosh. Okay, that's in fairness, he has eye floaters. I will give him that points. He's got like eye floaters. Although, it would be better if you took them off. Why? So that you can stare into that people know where you're

Jim Boblooking. Look in the dazzling dazzling. You got incredible blue eyes. Yeah, that's what I want to do. Isn't the Isn't an exception the something that's

Kyla Turnerpaired up against most? Um, yeah. But again, you're most Thank you. Yeah, but in this case, hold on. Why are you making this so complicated? Because you're being false analogous

Kyla Turnerright now, right? What's the false analogy? The false analogy to imply yesterday. You don't Well, you used it incorrectly last time. No, I didn't. You did. Uh, in fact, where's the analogy anyway? The the analogy here now is between men and women and a comparison line on financial literacy. And so

Kyla Turneryou're saying, well, most women aren't financially literate. Most men went and studied it. Hold on. She said better than men. You got to finish. Yep. So most men are also not not financially. That has nothing to do with her example. I will get there. If you if you We don't

Kyla Turnerneed you to filibuster the whole podcast. If you don't want to listen and just interrupt me, that's fine. But then we can't. It's a dumb. You got to let me finish my statement. You're making the You got to let me finish my statement. Jay, let her finish the exception. You got to let him finish my statement off

Kyla Turneryourself again. Once you're done, once you're done, I'll go back. Hang yourself again. Okay. So, there are the issue that you're having is that when you're talking about how women are not most women are not financially literate, men are also not mostly financially

Kyla Turnerliterate. So, you need you need to create a situ a line of credul beyond financial literacy that makes women exceptionally incapable of having a credit card that men don't have. If your

Kyla Turnerexceptional line, if your line of You got to let me finish. I'm just going to keep talking until you let me finish. You got to let me finish talking. You got to let me finish studies. I'm just going to keep talking over you and I'm going to pick up exactly where I was

Kyla Turneruntil you're done interrupting. You said a person going until you let me pick up exactly where I was. So, you can't kill a buster. This is all you do. This is why you're the worst. I just let I'm

Kyla Turnerjust going to wait until you actually let me. But you're the crappy version of the greatest debaters on the planet. So, that's totally shows that you're the dumbest. I know. Once you're done, I'm going to go back. So, the line of cad is

Kyla Turnerthe worst person on the internet and you're the worst version. Say it again until you can interrupt me if you want me to talk. Okay. So, the line of cad good one. It's just a machine gun. The line of credul you have to

Kyla Turnerestablish at some point is why men are exceptional in the case of credit cards that women are not. And the line talking to yourself for example was financial literacy. And there's no reason that women cannot

Charlie Campbellbe financial literacy. I do agree with that part though because it helps what you said. But no, there's no reason a woman can't be financially literate. So you shouldn't just have a blank. You said a woman who goes and

Kyla Turnerstudies beyond what most men. She was asking for a line of cadulity. So she says, "Okay, if your bar of the issue is financial literacy, why can women who become financially literate not apply for a credit card?" Now you have to

Kyla Turnerestablish the reason why a woman who is financially literate can't apply for a credit card. I never said that they couldn't. Oh, so you're fine with women that are financial contributing positions that are not relevant to what she argued. So, are you okay with women who are financially literate getting?

SPEAKER_11I'm responding to her critique. I can let her ask you the same question. Exceptions don't make the rule. Are you fine with women who are financially literate? Are you fine with women who are financially literate getting a credit? It's like talking to a 13-year-old child. Do you want to

SPEAKER_11answer? Her exceptions don't make the rules. This isn't an exception at all. Financial literacy is not a woman who studies it more than the average man. She gave you a case study. That doesn't mean that's an exception. Thank you. No,

Kyla Turnerthat was a case. It's a case study to test the example. That's an exception. It's not an exception to the rule. It's a case study to test your logic. How is it a case study? She just set an example because she was giving one person. That's not a case study, you idiot. It

SPEAKER_11is. It's focusing in an example. Is a case study. Yeah. In this case, it's a focus. Who did the study? What case? Nobody here is you're Thank you. So, it's not a case study. No, you're just equivocating now where you're acting like when I said you're using the words that I used yesterday cuz you're a

Jay Dyergaslighter and you can't actually debate. You gaslight from everything that I said yesterday. I know you're really going to list all the fallacies so you can repeat them. I'll just wait for you to be done. Do you want to say a Texas sharpshooter fallacy? Cuz I know you looked it up last night. Do you want

Jim Bobto do you want to do that one now? I didn't actually look it up. You're belaboring something that you should just concede to. She gave an exception to the rule. You're talking over me. She gave an exception that she listed an

Kyla Turnerexception. It is a very specific exception, right? She described it. Jay responded to the exception. It's not an exception. It is. How can you not see that? This is so I can explain to you again the reason that it's not an exception is that she wasn't saying in

Kyla Turnerthis one unique case where this woman is exceptional. She gave an example of a woman who did it. Breathe. You have to an exception. Jay, you have to let me finish talking or again the audience never gets anything. It is so dumb.

Kyla TurnerEveryone's IQ literally starts going down points. Yeah, good one. Like we're getting to the 80 IQ level every time. Once you're done, once you're done, all of your sick my IQ points are going to

Kyla Turnerzero. Please God, please help me. They're almost zero from you talking. In fairness, Brian, if you want me to engage with this, I can. We can also move on. But if he's going to engage,

Kyla Turnerwhat determines if something's an exception? What's a criteria? Uh something that is so like atypical it would be like less than like I don't know like 5%. It has to be something that is

Kyla TurnerYeah. It has to be so arbitrary that's abnormal. So for example, a a way that we could apply this this fallacy correctly if you want me to talk you through it is say we're talking about body count and then we find this one

Kyla Turnercase of a woman that has a 100 body count and it turns out that after she does that she has a really long successful marriage in life. And if I use that to prove C body count doesn't matter. You would say well that's a bit of an exception to the rule. That

Kyla Turnerdoesn't make that the rule that generally that the higher the body count is that they're more less likely to be consistent. You just going to yell the whole time? Are you done? Come on, Jay. Your friend asked me a question. I need to answer it. You don't answer. You

Jay Dyerliterally just machine gun vomit out of your mouth for like minutes on end. And all you do is interrupt constantly, make loud annoying noises, start arguments over the dumbest [ __ ] that's not even

SPEAKER_11relevant to the exception. You want to argue over words. spent 2 hours yesterday arguing over words in your own stupid definition of feminism. I'm pretty sure you asked me to debate you.

Kyla TurnerSo, if this is a problem for you, that's fine. But you agreed to these engagements. If you don't want to debate me in the future, you don't have to. But you asked me. You reached out to me. Then why did you reach out in the first place? Why did you ask for Brian to host

Kyla Turnerus? Why does it matter if I reached out to you? You're going to debate. You have clearly you want to debate me, which means that you've agreed to some level of engage. Well, but you don't. You're

Charlie Campbellthe exception. The issue is that again, if you can as they debate, you know, one thing that's pretty telling is that she hasn't insulted you at all once. And you've said it like four times. Well, I'm just saying you're talking to No,

Charlie Campbellyou're talking about yourself like you're like this master debater, like a masturbator, so to speak. Oh, that was that was a clever turn of phrase. Can you explain it? What does that mean? So, what I'm trying to say is that like

Charlie Campbellyou're acting like you're like this exalted like debater. in comparison to her that you're the grown man and she's the child. That's cuz it's true. It's not true. She's over 18. So, I'm saying

Charlie Campbellthat I'm the master debater. Let other people spend the master. But then you're calling her an idiot. You're because she's not an idiot. She is not an idiot. It doesn't make sense to you. No. No. It

Jay Dyerdoesn't It doesn't make sense, but not to you. Well, yesterday it makes sense to about 100,000. I'm pretty sure after I mean, who cares? She's not talking to them. She's talking to you. No, we are talking to that man. After the show, Brian explicitly asked you to do a lot

Kyla Turnerless of this behavior. He explicitly asked you to do this because it was taking away from content. This is just a conversation taking away from what I said. It was it was like a it was

Brian Atlasa it was a look no what here's what I said to Jay. I said look tomorrow you're you're a debater, right? You're a debater. We're bringing on a panel of guests who are not debaters. And I was like they don't know how they're not debaters. They're just going here to

Brian Atlashave conversation. And I was like I was letting Jay know, you know, maybe we don't uh do certain, you know, debate stuff to the non-debaters because interrupting all the time. Not to you.

Kyla TurnerBut you're the debater though. You're the debater. There's You did not make an exceptional rule that they could be just as obnoxious like this with me, but not with everyone else. And you and I both know that. Brian, you don't think you're obnoxious? I didn't say that. I'm not obnoxious. Obnoxious. You guys are being

Brian Atlasobnoxious. as as the host, as the moderator, I I would personally, although I find it a bit amusing, you know, the the insults and whatnot, and it'd be nice if you guys didn't insult

Brian Atlaseach other. You know what, Jay? I want Can you say one nice thing about Kyla? And then, Kyla, say one nice thing about Jay. You know, maybe we're not acting like this is an equal engagement of problems. Okay, then Jay, do you want to say something nice? I also think that

Jay Dyeryou think she's obnoxious because she's not submitting to you. Now, we had a whole debate. He was mad cuz after the debate we were like having a good conversation and I told him I was disappointed. Submit. She Kyla's not

Kyla Turnersubmitting to you. Um I think he's mad cuz yesterday after mad literally how you've been like sub tweeting and retweeting me all day. I know that you're Can you tilt your mic down a little bit? You mean coyote time when I

Jay Dyersaid a diarrhea joke? Leave it up. No one before the debate. I made a diarrhea joke. Yeah, that was good. I I bantered with you on it. I made a joke about your relativism. That's it. The other clips

Brian Atlasare clips. They're not you. Sorry. Okay. Uh, Boosted Coyote. The M to mute a microphone is $500 through stream. Streamlabs.com whatever if you want to mute a microphone. Just throwing it out there. All right. Uh, here, why don't we

Brian Atlasmove on and if time permitting, we can come back to the conversation uh, a little bit later. There are, you know, we'll wait, we'll wait to get to the chats here in just a bit. I want to get through some more of the show notes

Brian Atlashere. Moving on to Hyasin. Did I say it right? Yeah, I said it right. Okay, good. In your show notes, you write, hold on, where is it? Okay. The craziest dating experience

Brian Atlasyou've had with a guy was when you went out with a guy and you offered to pay your own tab and he was and he was offended by the offer even when you mentioned you weren't there for his money and you were only there for his

Brian Atlastime and appreciation like reciprocity, but he felt that if he paid completely, you owed him a part of you. That's your That's your craziest dating experience? I don't I haven't been out on a lot of dates. You haven't been out. I'm quiet

Hyasingirl. I paint all of my time is in the house. Okay. All right. You said that maybe the adverse effects. There has been times where I've taken men out on full-on dates and spent over $1,000 on

Hyasinthem and they still seem to have want to tell me what to do or like, you know, like I don't know. It could be a little oppressive sometimes dating.

HyasinWhat do you mean oppressive? Um, there's always an expectation that no, even if you put in your part or a little bit more, then you still have to be submissive to a guy even if you're it's

Brian Atlasa 50/50 relationship in a dating relationship. Yeah, I think if the woman is paying 100%, she should still be submissive. I agree. Even then,

Brian Atlasbut at the same time, do I have to do I owe my body for that? Oh, could you tilt your mic up just a little bit? We did some adjustments. Do I owe somebody my body for it? I don't think you owe your body to anybody

Hyasinreally, but uh So, wait, the question is, do you owe So, even if I do pay 100% and I still want to be submissive, why is it come down to like it's sharing like they want to take a piece of me?

Brian AtlasWell, I mean, you should only engage in a sexual relationship if you want to engage in That's why I don't have a lot of bodies. What's that? That's why I only I don't have a lot of bodies. You don't have a lot of bodies. Okay, got it. Well, Brian, I'm just going to like

Charlie Campbelljust uh uh a little bit um just like like let me hijack it. So, for a sec, um honestly, any woman that spends like maybe $1,000 on a man basically pays

Charlie Campbell100% for the date is not dating a traditional man. No traditional man would ever allow a woman to spend that much on him. So, why submit to a traditional man? Traditional men say they want a traditional woman, but

Charlie Campbellrefuse to be traditional men. You can't have your cake and eat it too. So, I'm saying why submit to a man who doesn't even seem like he plays by the rules that he set forth. Oh, sure. I'm bantering a little bit as it comes to

Brian Atlaslike the woman should pay 100%. But, um Oh, I mean, sorry you're playing. I get it. Yeah. Yeah. Um but yeah, I actually probably don't disagree with you necessarily. I if a guy is desirous of a

Brian Atlastraditional dynamic, he should probably take on the traditional expectations on his own end. So, I agree. Don't don't totally disagree there. But uh uh moving on to the notes here. Uh let's see. You

Brian Atlassaid someone who only sees you as an object. You don't ask this out of spider malice. You generally would like to know the point of view on the subject. So do you experience that a lot that men see

Hyasinyou as an object? Every day. Every day. My appearance is a completely different outlook on who I am on on the inside. I'm a soft girl. I'm a very soft girl.

HyasinSoft. What does that mean? What does soft girl mean? I'm a romantic type. Like I like run around. I'm like, "Oh my god, look at the butterflies." And stuff like that. Okay. Yeah. I'm very Yeah.

HyasinYeah. Um do you objectify yourself? I try not to. I Why did you look down at your I know cuz that's like Do you have any

Brian Atlasplastic surgery? I do. Uh what do you have? I I just have this just the Yeah. No BBL or anything like that? Uh and what about like Botox or filler? You have lip filler? You can see it. What?

HyasinThe lips though. You got lip filler, right? No, I don't actually. I went in to go get lip fillers and the girl was like, "Have you done it before?" And I was like, "No." She like grabbed my super hard. Can you turn your head that

Hyasinway? I just have good jeans. Wait, you could touch them if you want. I don't want to touch them, but wait. Just turn your head. Are you sure you don't have lip filler? I promise you. Well, that's very nice, though. Thank

SPEAKER_13you, panel. What's What's the verdict? You never asked me that. Brian, if you have lip filler. No, I've Do you have Wait, what? No, you have perfectly balanced lips. You're a [ __ ] liar.

Brian AtlasYou're a [ __ ] liar. Oh, sorry. Uh, okay. Uh, anybody else have any plastic surgery at the table? Oh, what? What do you have? I got boobs and lips. You got

Sophia (OF LA)like titties. They're fake. Yeah. Oh, okay. Cool. Anything? No. No. I have Botox and fake. This is just a push-up bra. Okay. I swear they No plastic

Charlie Campbellsurgery. Watch my videos. They bounce. I'm serious. No, I'm not lying. I swear I don't have money like that. I'm a brokeie. People can titties

Charlie Campbellwithout paying for it. I'm done. But also, I'm an EMT. Like, with what money? Your boobs are real?

Charlie CampbellYes. I'm a brokie. Okay. Oh my god. Okay. moving forward. Why do you not believe her? Can you play the pink pancake? Do you think her tits

Brian Atlasare just too good to be real? You know, the thing is it's a compliment at that point. Thank you. I think you can. I have fake titty radar. I can tell. But you were surprised by me. Well, you you

Brian Atlascover up a little bit. Okay. You bulked up. Remember when you said you bulked up? You bulked up. You said you bulked up yesterday. Wait, when did you get the the fake titties? Like a year ago before

Kyla Turnermy bulk. Was it after your last appearance? Oh god. So you were on in like It was in June that I got them. Like a year ago.

Brian AtlasIt's been like a full year. 2024. Yeah. Okay. So that was that was after your parents. Yeah. See, so you must I got I got bamboozled a little bit. Well, when I'm on birth control, they're about the same size. Yeah. I don't take birth

Brian Atlascontrol anymore. So it [ __ ] with my health like in every way. So, you're saying your boob size is the same? It's about the same, which is maybe why you didn't notice the difference. Yeah. Also, I have I try to

Brian Atlaslook people in the eyes. I try to That's true. You're a respectful lad. I I try not to look at the titties, even if they're gigantic. I I'm a I'm a gentleman. So, um Appreciate that, Brian. Really though, they're I'm being

Charlie Campbellserious. And by serious, you mean you're lying? I'm a certified brokie. I'm an EMT. That's like asking like it's like if I was a

Brian Atlasteacher like teachers are underpaid is what I'm trying to get at. Okay. Anyways, uh and plastic surgery. No. All right. Uh good good talk. Um I don't

Brian Atlasknow how we got there. What were uh Oh, objectif objectification. Yeah, you got that. Who who of the women here at the table feel like they've been they are or have been objectified? And the men can

Kyla Turneralso raise their hands even. think it's good. I don't care. You're in favor of objectification. We always objectify. I've been objectified. Yeah. Everyone objectifies all the time. It's just when you remove I'm sure Jay here probably gets all the time. Sand guy. He's got a

Kyla Turnergood head of hair, especially for 40. That was incredible. Said something nice about I said I said something nice about you yesterday. I'm not interested in being like nasty all the time. Okay. Jim Bob, do you get objectified? You're

Jim Bobhandsome. No. I mean, isn't making fun of people objectifying them even like cuz people think objectify they look at it and it's like I want that usually it's always a good thing but aren't you

Jim Bobare you being objectified if you make fun of someone's body kind of yeah so yeah people make fun of me so

Brian Atlasyour wife was funny it was a joke right okay good times okay uh so let me get into the rest of the notes then we have uh I think That's it for uh it's Hyasin.

Brian AtlasOkay. Just want to make sure I got it right. Okay. Let's get to Kelly Vargas. Kelly here. Kelly, uh you have your pronouns in your bio. You go, you're a she, her. Yes. Okay. Just wanted to

Brian Atlasdouble check. Yeah. Okay. You're at a music festival at the Rose Bowl with this new guy you were seeing in Los Angeles. He was a total blast. Great energy and you were definitely feeling

Brian Atlasit on something fun. can take that. Oh, okay. You guys were dancing fully in the moment and suddenly you hear a name. You turn around and no

Brian Atlasjoke. It's your ex from New York who you hadn't seen in years. He walks up and stands right next to your current date and they looked very similar. Like it

Kelly Vargaswas actually trippy. Apparently, I really do have a type. What's your type? That's a great question. I would say um

Kelly Vargasusually tall, tan, Italian looking physical and then personalitywise like a hot mess. Uh wait, personality hot mess. Yeah, but

Brian AtlasItalian looking. Yeah. Okay. All right. Jim Bob's Italian. Is he my hot mess? Is he your type? Um if he

Brian Atlaswas single, respectfully, no. I'm sorry, Jim Pop. I'm sorry. Um, okay. So, Italian and just a [ __ ] up personality or a mess. Yes. Okay. So, what does that

Kelly Vargasmean? Like you date like criminals or what do No. No. Um, I don't think that far. Um, I think more of like they just are very type B similar to how I am disorganized. Maybe they make like awful

Brian Atlasdecisions, but not like to the point of like criminal like No. I see. Okay, cool. Uh, you said the other time you you were in Cost Costa Rica, excuse me. You solo traveled there for New York New

Sophia (OF LA)Year's Eve. You matched with a local surfer on Tinder. Was it was it this her boy ex-boyfriend? I don't know. Um, that could have been really, really, really possible. He cheated on me in Costa Rica

Brian Atlasand he claimed to be a surfer, right? So, yes. Uh, it turned into a movie. who say you guys swam, partied, you rode his motorcycle through the jungle roads, and you basically fell into a three-day

Brian Atlaswhirlwind romance. Pure passion, no plans, and zero regrets. Did you have a giant underbite? No. No. I was genuinely thinking it

Brian Atlascould. It might have been him. It might have been him. Yeah. Uh, and so, okay, that was your Costa Rica thing. That's That's cool. Was there any like uh specific thing with him that you wanted

Kelly Vargasto share on or just Yeah, I I just think it was um alludes to the idea of like uh I don't really am so pressured with society like in the idea of like having to have a long-term relationship, feel

Kelly Vargaslike I have to submit to a man constantly. Like I kind of just go with the flow. I'm very freespirited. If I like somebody, I like them. If I don't, I don't. Same with them. Um, I know a lot of people are like, "Oh, it's kind of weird if you're not like in a

Kelly Vargaslong-term relationship and you're just like in like, you know, little flings here and there, but I I think that's the fun part of being like living is just to be in the moment. And if it comes with a

Brian Atlasfling, why not?" And do you travel a lot? Yeah, I do. And when you travel, do you find yourself in these uh temporary romances or whatever? I

Brian Atlasdon't look for it like per se like that's my top priority but if it happens it happens. Okay. Got it. Uh you wanted to talk about baby mama and dad baby mama baby daddy culture. Do but you

Kelly Vargasdon't have kids right? No I do not. Do you uh what specifically did you want to talk about? I just feel like um personally in my opinion it's really shoved down in the pop culture like it's

Kelly Vargasvery normalized um to have a child without being in marriage. So I would say like I am more traditional in the sense of like I think if you're going to raise a family I would want you to be or

Kelly Vargasmyself to be in in a committed marriage like why would I want to have children with just anybody and not be in a marriage that I definitely am feel like I'm more traditional I would say and um

Kelly VargasI guess also that comes to the idea of like I am very liberal like I said I'm like freespirited but there are certain aspects of myself that I do think in traditional tra uh sorry traditionalism is important. Wait, just some points of clarification here. You just said you're

Kelly Vargasa bit more you're liberal. I would say like there's a lot of liberal ideas that I have. Um, but I definitely lean more towards the middle left. Okay. Middle left. But you said, and in your notes

Brian Atlashere, you also wrote you're very old school and traditional uh when it comes to that comes to what? Baby, mom, dating, just having children outside of marriage. I don't understand. Oh, okay. Just having kids out of marriage. Can

Brian Atlasyou be can when it comes to you and this is what you wrote. You said you're very old school and traditional. Can you be I guess specific and give detail how how are you old school and traditional? Um

Kelly Vargaswhen it comes to marriage I think if you want to be married like that's to me marriage is uh traditional like you want to have children you want to build a family um to me that just seems

Kelly Vargasreasonable. That seems like the best way to raise a family. um to have children outside of a marriage. I think it's like so shoved down our pop culture um ideas

Kelly Vargasthat like we should have we women should be able to do whatever they want. They can have kids outside of marriage. It's fine. I don't think that to me personally that's just not really in my Yeah. So that's your view when it comes

Brian Atlasto having children uh outside of marriage. Your desire I assume you want to get married. Um, yes, but I don't that's not my priority. What's your priority? Uh, my

Jay Dyercareer. Okay, gotcha. And you're remind me you're 28. Yes. Okay. Uh, go ahead. How could you expect the traditional element if you're not preparing yourself to be in that

Kelly Vargassituation? Uh, I don't think I'm ready to be a mother or a wife quite yet. um I haven't found the right person and the last thing I would want to do is get into an awful um unrealistic marriage

Jay Dyerthat leads to divorce and to have um children just because I felt pressured to have children. But if you're not preparing yourself for that type of a lifestyle, do you think that you'll just suddenly turn traditional when you're ready to get married? No, I think

Kelly Vargasthere's a lot of healing that I need to do within myself. Um I would want to raise a great family. I want to have kids event like maybe in the future but

Kelly VargasI don't in a good mindset and a healthy lifestyle. Um and I am still traditional like not just talking about myself. I think women should and men should be in committed relationships to have

Jim Bobchildren. Not just talking about myself. I'm just talking about in general. Uh when you said I haven't found the right person, doesn't that imply that the

Jim Bobright person is already traditional? Um, I wouldn't say so. I'm sorry. Can you clarify? So, you're like, I don't want to get married yet. I I don't think

Jim BobI found the right person. Uh, just that part of it. Wouldn't the right person assume that he's already traditional and wants to have kids? I hope so. Um, if he's I would also love if they didn't

Kelly Vargasfeel pressured to have a family. And maybe if it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't. It doesn't It shouldn't be like a pressure of like I want kids and you need to provide me kids. But if it happens, that's an

Jim Bobamazing life. The reason I asked that is because um uh like I don't understand this like women, they want to find the right guy,

Jim Bobright? Like a high value man, they they call it um fits all these criterias. Um when you find that

Jim Bobman, why why are you find what do you do with that man? Right? If your current uh view of of dating is simply just like have fun, it's like I always ask these people, same thing. It goes back with

Jim Bobthe men too. They they want to find the the right woman and and I always ask why. Then what do you do? Because the only answer to me that's that makes any sense is to marry and potentially have a

Jim Bobfamily to build something. So I'm I'm wondering what all this dating is if ultimately both the men and the women are looking for the right man, right? But for what? or the man is looking for

Jim Bobthe right woman. Uh for what? Like if it's not for marriage, I'm not sure what is it like a temporary like chapter in life, you know, like Yeah. I think people come and go in your life. In my honest opinion, I'm very spiritual. I

Kelly Vargasthink not people don't just come to your life for no reason. There's always something that they provide for you. So even if they're not in a marriage or end up in a long-term relationship, I learned something from them. I'm not always out here like, "He's the one.

Kelly VargasHe's the one. Is he gonna be the one?" No. I mean, if it is, that's great. Um, I take a lot of accountability accountability that I am a hot mess myself when it comes to dating, which is

Jim Bobwhy I don't track the best kind of individuals when I when I date. But that's what I that I' like to back to what Jay said, and this is pretty much for everyone is that um if in the future you see especially as a women because

Jim Bobyou guys have a time constraint. If you see in the future that you'll probably want to be married, you actually have to start that traditional practice of being that woman before you actually find the husband. That's why I asked, wouldn't

Jim Bobthe husband wouldn't the future husband already have the mindset of being traditional? Like finding you and be like, "Cool, let's do this." But if you're not already living that, that's why Jay asked, "What do you suddenly wake up when you find the right man and

Kelly Vargassuddenly you're traditional?" Like that's I see what you're saying. No, definitely having direction. I see what you're saying. Um, I think yes, my the person that I would want to end up should be looking for marriage. I just

Jay Dyerdon't like being pressured into things. So, if they if I'm in a first date and he's like, I want to get married, I'd that'd freak me out. I'd be like, I don't even know who you are. This is a first date. I would rather talk about this later on in life. I think you you

Jay Dyerwe're not saying you should rush into marriage, but rather that when you're married, it's a different lifestyle and it's not it doesn't change when you're married like you have to be prepared for

Jay Dyermarriage. So you have to begin preparing before not that you have to rush into marriage is what I'm saying. So in other words, you'd have to you need to give up the liberal centism if you want a

Jay Dyertraditional guy. No traditional guy wants a liberal girl because let me give you an example. had a friend who um dated a liberal girl back when we were in our 20s and he wanted to marry her. I

Jay Dyersaid it's not a good idea. He got her pregnant. She aborted the baby and then took off and I think because he he saw that because she had this attitude of

Jay Dyernot being traditional that she was not going to make a good wife. She ran off did not what he wanted. Right. So if you want to like what you put out is what you attract is what I'm trying to say.

Jay DyerCan you ident um be more specific in like the liberal definition? I mean you describe yourself as a central a left of center I think is what you said something like that. Yeah. But I mean like if I'm a guy and I'm out there and

Jay DyerI let's say for the sake of argument I'm a high value male. Maybe I'm not. But let's say that if I am like if I was a traditional minded guy and I wanted a wife like I'm going to be looking for the qualities already there. Not like

Kelly Vargascan I make her into a traditional woman when we get married. I'm gonna look for the qualities already being there. Isn't that a lot of pressure for someone though? Don't you think? Like everyone's in their own journey in creating the best version of themselves. Not everyone's going to be perfect and ready

Kyla Turnerfor anything in life. What do you mean by traditional man? Like when you describe a traditional man, what are you looking for? Because you got to make sure that the net like what they're I think what they're saying is if you want to attract a certain type of fish, you

Kelly Vargasgot to use the right type of work, right? And so when you say what's what's the fish you're trying to attract? um somebody for me there's traditionalism but also open-mindedness like being able

Kelly Vargasto um marriage is great that's traditional yes but being able to also have different ideas of of pathways in life and not being so um what's the word

Jim Bobso single-minded and thinking like this is the only path in life like this hold on that's like traditional pluralism though so like is there any tradition you can point to that that has survived

Jim Bobthe test of time that didn't hold to a fairly narrow approach to what it is. Sounds like you're saying traditionalism kind of looks a certain way, like the structure looks a certain way, but ultimately what's the tradition that's

Jim Bobbeing carried through? Is there any uh structure of the family or does it just look like a family on TV? You know what I mean? Like a tradition itself in every sense of the word comes from a long

Jim Boblineage of people that hold it together and keep it uh safeguard it, protect it, keep it rigorous. So, it sounds like what Kyla's asking is like, well, what is that? It sounds like it's a type.

Kelly VargasIt's like an image of it, but it's not the practice of it. Like, do you want him to be the bread winner? Do you want him to make more income than you? I think uh that's a great question. I think if they they are the bread winner, that's great. I They don't have to be

Kyla Turnerlike I would love to make my own income as well. Should he pay for dates? Should he be the one paying for dates? Um, hopefully yes. But would it be an ick? Be honest. Would it be an ick if he didn't? Um, I would say yes. Okay. So,

Kyla Turneryou want a guy who's paying for the date, you're open to economically being on the same level. So, if you were dating somebody for a while and he was making like 30k less a year than you for a while, would that be okay with you? Like, is that say he's going to school, is that okay with you if you're the one

Kelly Vargasmaking the money at the time and he's going to school? Um, I don't think currently where I'm at right now that it's it's not a priority, but I think it would definitely be something that would make me want not to be with them. Gotcha. Okay. So, like you're kind of

Kyla Turnerwanting some traditional gender roles like he's being at least the bread winner mostly throughout the relationship or at least on parody. You want him to pay for that and stuff like that. Okay. Gotcha. I just want to understand what you're saying. What if

Jim Bobwhat if he fits all of the checks for traditionalism that you are looking for? Okay. And the only thing he's looking for is you uh in addition to your, you know, compatibility. But the most

Jim Bobimportant thing on his list is that you mother his children. That's the only thing in return. He's expecting is the expectation that uh Kyla just asked of

Jim Bobyou like you're you have an expectation, right? Okay. But if his expectation is that is that an equal exchange? I honestly I don't think so. Having a

Kelly Vargaskid is so like lifealtering to your body, physical, mental to a woman that that just seems to me in like the most simplest terms I'm giving away my life to be honest. So, a lot of the times it

Jim Bobhas to be the right person and it has to be like when I feel like it's right. And right now I don't. Well, yeah. The question wasn't like when it of course there's a when. Sometimes you don't know when. Uh sometimes sometimes you think

Jim Bobit's not the right time and it actually is. Uh but I'm pointing to more like uh if you have a set of standards Yeah. for the man. Okay. And let's say it is from every perspective looking at it, he

Jim Bobmatches all of the all of the criteria. Yeah. His criteria for you is to mother the child. I'm wondering how do you know when you're at an equal exchange? Cuz now you just said, "Well, I want the man to be traditional. I want him to pay for things. I want him to lead the way. I

Jim Bobwant him to lead the family, protect me, whatever else you add in there." But it sounds like one of the most important things for that traditional man is going to be the thing that you're actually like, "Eh, whoa, whoa, whoa." Yeah. And

Kelly Vargasit it seems like it's not a equal exchange because what is it thereafter? Ultimately, aside from that, you don't think that it's an like a it's fair to say to have a child is like not comp I

Kelly Vargaswouldn't compare it to me saying like provide for a date uh to be able to pay a bill. Like I don't think that's the same as having a Oh, no. I agree. I'm not talking about the single instance.

Jim BobWe're looking at sort of uh obligation from his perspective. That's the kind kind of man he is. So that'll follow through with protecting you uh you know providing

Jim Bobhome the making the home like protecting the home uh everything

Jim Bobfulfill it sounds like your liberalism still kicking in and you're like well I want to fly to Tahiti right and that's you're going to live your life and that's why Jay is asking well what is it you're grabbing from the traditional bin

Jim Bobuh from the man and what are you providing from the traditional been from his perspective if it's not children is it what is it I mean what what else would it could it be like are you wanting to home make a lot for him like

Kelly Vargaswhen you say providing children do you just mean you don't want to give up your career for children yeah I feel like having kids like it's selfish to not center your life around them like that's a huge life decision and right now I

Kelly Vargashave so much on my plate career financial um just everything that I'm I don't think it would be fair to have a kid right now or probably in a while. Yeah, I think that's fair. I think one of the things that I think when I look

Kyla Turnerat relationships, there's like these different categories and boxes of percentages that we give, right? So there's like domestic, there's income, there's emotional, and then there's also like uh like child rearing parenting, right? And so like in my mind, these

Kyla Turnerthings don't have to be 50% the whole way across, right? But they need to be exchangeable in a way where both partners look at them. So say for example if the husband is expected to give like 70% of the income and you work

Kyla Turnerlike part-time or 3/4 of the time I'm not sure what your workload is or maybe you give 60% of the income that means other areas have to flex to kind of accommodate that right and so I think the important question that men have to ask when they're going into relationship

Kyla Turneris going like well what am I offering and what are the type of women that I'm interested in looking for and as a woman you have to go well what am I willing to offer and which men are interested in looking for those things right because I I would agree most like more

Kyla Turnerconservative super trad men they don't really they're not as interested in like the woman's income. Most trad men are pretty open to being like 60 to 70% of the income. But what they look for in exchange would be like higher domestic

Kyla Turnerlabor. So like they do the income labor. Woman does maybe higher domestic labor if she's still working and has to be back and forth. I don't even think liberal men care about women's income. Well, I would just disagree in the economy. Like the reality is very few

Brian Atlasmen can provide for a family on one economy. Some men are like super blessed. What I'm saying is though, I I understand the arguments of like, okay, economically speaking, you need a a two-income household. That's just the

Brian Atlaseconomic reality for most couples. What I'm saying is is that men, it's not going to make men more attracted to women. They they'll do it out of necess economic necessity, but not like, oh,

Brian Atlasshe's a high earner. I'm more attracted to her. agree. It could be like a a nice positive, for example, for a liberal guy, but I I don't even think liberal men are going to be like, "Oh, she's more attractive because of she's a higher earner." I agree. What I'm

Kyla Turnertalking about is once you're in the relationship, these exchanges are going on. I think it's a disservice. So, what happens when I listen to feminists and like man spheres fight with each other is women really ignore the income labor

Kyla Turnerthat men often do. They're just kind of like it it's like a it's like a self- assumed thing that men are bringing to the table. And then men will often ignore as well the economic labor that women are bringing in. And which is why I've listed multiple facets because I

Kyla Turneragree men aren't like looking at women who are making like a hundred grand and being like, "Ooh, baby." Right? They're being like, "Damn, she's hot." Right? And like she makes me feel good when I'm with her. That's more or less what most people are doing. But once you get into the relationship, part of the exchange,

Kyla Turnerif we're all being honest with each other, has to be like, who's bringing the income where, and how much, and how do we balance out the other areas? Uh and most people say the man should be bringing in higher income and so and

Kyla Turnertypically one of the partners is also doing higher emotional labor to like make the relationship work. So then the domestic what is emotional labor? It depends on the couple, right? So say for example, you've got one partner that's comes in with like a lot of emotional

Kyla Turnerbaggage. So let's use I'm going to use a man for I'll use a woman for an example first cuz I think people would find them more appealing and then I can use a man. For a woman maybe she like had a messy childhood so she's a little bit anxious. She's more depressed, so she needs to be

Kyla Turnercomforted more often. Or you could just not date her. That's also not Yeah, but that's not what we're talking. We're talking about like what would be the emotional labor in the case of a man having lots of baggage. He might have lots of anger issues. He might kind of stall and not communicate, right? So

Jay Dyerthen the woman might have higher emotional labor to make the relationship work cuz you have to be able to talk to each other and emotionally relate to one another. Jay, it sounds like you may be one. Do you do the emotional baggage in y'all's relationship? I'm just curious

Jay Dyerlike are you the one that covers the emotional baggage? I would say my husband is much more emotionally like solid than I am. I definitely like have a lot more baggage from my childhood. I'm curious. I want to ask if you don't mind like would you rather be in a

Jay Dyersituation where if you had an option of a dude who you liked and he made a lot of money. Would you choose that if you had to be a homemaker versus your own

Hyasincareer and out there like having to do your own thing and all that? Which would you prefer? Naturally, I am very submissive and I already do those things for fun. I like have fun cleaning and cooking. So, it's something that I but I

Hyasindon't look traditional. So, it's But if you had a choice, which one would you prefer? Um, I would go with letting the man lead me and with the money, you know, and I would take on the responsibility of cleaning and cooking for the home and having the baby. So,

Jay Dyerthat would be a better life for you than like trying to fend for yourself in LA. Okay. What about you? Would you prefer that or not? what being like barefoot and pregnant and taken care of if the option of a guy who has a lot of money

Jay Dyerthat you like you genuinely are like he's not a butthole right or like you're a career woman doing your own thing and you have like a person that meets you halfway which would you prefer can I just use my relationship cuz that's obviously who I picked uh when I got

Kyla Turnerinto the relationship my husband hadn't graduated high school didn't have a job uh I was uh already high income earning and had the greatest income prospects um but for me I learned pretty early to

Kyla Turnerreally depp prioriti prioritize like surface stuff. I really wanted a man of character. Like that was the most important thing to me is a man of high integrity and character which I would

Kyla Turnersay I got. Like Nick's genuinely amazing amazing person. So for me, but I'm not saying that that's the typical woman experience. Like I recognized that I was very career motivated and so in my mind

Kyla TurnerI did a mental calculus of going that means I need to scale back the money expectations because he's got to make a lot of trade-offs that aren't traditional for me. So I can't ask for the same traditional exchange. I did that when I was like 22. I just made that mental swap. But most women

Jim Bobprobably don't want to do that. I wanted to ask go back to you for a second. Uh you're you hold you lean more traditional uh more submissive but your appearances might throw people off. So

Jim Bobwhen when it is the uh you know when you are searching for a man um what else are you going to have to do do you think to attract because you might attract the not that right? I mean is it fair to say

Hyasinyou might attract not that? Um it's yes it is fair to say that but um when I date I kind of go off of the first approach like how they treat me

Jim Boband you know I don't really have a specific thing that I look for. I mean I'm sorry can you repeat the question? It was like you you hold you lean more into traditionalism submissive. So that it might be the case that the man you're

Jim Bobactually looking for is actually traditional. But if your appearance can throw people off. I was wondering what do you do to find the traditional? If the appearance might throw them off.

HyasinBut I don't necessarily look for what a man can offer me. It's compatibility, you know, like how does he make me feel? If he has all of that stuff, that's great. That's fine. But if it's a struggle together, that's what we have

Jay Dyerto do. Does that make sense? What would you choose? Oh, like the barefoot and pregnant or Well, it's not just barefoot and pregnant. It's also the guy that you like who has stable income, good money,

Lexi (Baker)right? Versus like you're on your own trying to f for yourself and then you find a guy that meets you halfway or something like that. Yeah. No, like 100% I would rather be at home taking care of kids doing my thing there. I do not want

Lexi (Baker)to work at all. That's not my thing. What about you? No, I like working for myself. Okay. I I'd like us to have like both our

Brian Atlasseparate careers, honestly. I don't know. I love my career so much. I would never give it up. So, yeah. Okay. Wait, you never give up your career? Uh question, but so going back to this, you

Jim Bobsaid you're old school, you're traditional. Uh would you be submissive to your husband? What's submission to you? Uh, bowing. By the way, Brian, sorry to interrupt. When I went home last week,

SPEAKER_13my entire family bowed to me when I woke when I walked in the door. Even the wife? Everybody. Did you like it or Yeah, it was awesome. Yeah. See, it's good. Uh, basically I think that's a joke,

SPEAKER_13right? No, no, it's an actual Yeah, they did it. Well, it's like a meme. They did it as a meme, but it was just funny. Mormons have a an oath of perfect obedience. So, I'm just curious, though, because I know it's different for

Brian Atlaseveryone. submission, you know. Yeah. Willful cooperation. I was making a morning. Yeah. I know. I know. Uh I mean basically just deferring to his leadership. Willful cooperation.

Brian AtlasSo yeah, deferring to his leadership. Now, for example, like I don't I don't think submission is this. Your husband says jump off a bridge. And then you

Brian Atlasjump off a bridge. That's not you would not be in contravention of being submissive if you're like no, I'm not going to jump off a bridge. Or if your husband said, "Okay, uh, sell these drugs or be a prostitute." I would never

Brian Atlasbe around someone like that. What's that? I would never be around someone someone like that. So, but let me ask you this. Your husband says, well, let's say it's your boyfriend. Your boyfriend says, "When we get married, you're

Brian Atlastaking my last name." Would Well, first off, let me ask, would you take your uh husband's last name? No. What about Ah, okay. Now, we're getting somewhere. Uh, so you wouldn't take his last name. Um,

Brian Atlasno. under. Just to be clear, you want to get married though, right? Uh eventually. Yes. Question for you. If it's the per uh the perfect guy, he's the perfect guy. Most of us won't get

Brian Atlasthe perfect partner ever. Would you take his last name then? I still think that's a no. So, question for you. Would you hyphenate? Are you going to hyphenate? Are you going to keep I'd be open to it? That sounds like a compromise. I'd What if he's a

Jim Bobbillionaire? I No, but he could help your career. What if he What if Would you take you wouldn't take any man's name? I Well, I just said I would be open to hyphenating. Can I ask you what about

Brian Atlasyour father's last name? Well, that was that was by Let me let me ask you a question on the a couple questions on this. So, you said you're old school and traditional in certain aspects, not Okay. So, you're picking and choosing.

Brian AtlasIt's like it's a buffet. You get to pick and choose. Oh, I like this. Don't like that. Uh, well, okay. There's some criticisms there, but So, okay. You're picking and choosing. So, what do you

Brian Atlasconsider traditional or modern? Hyphenation or like how do you categorize these? Hyphenation definely or what what's traditional? That would be definitely like if I was to not take

Brian Atlashis last name that's not traditional. I can agree with that. Okay, cool. Um, how about this? I'm trying to think um of another example here. Would it be Icky

Kelly Vargasif he he demanded to take your last name? He just demanded it. Um, I would say yeah, because that's just why do I have to do something out of demanding?

Brian AtlasLike qu couple questions for you. Uh, do you want guys to pay for I might have been gone when you guys talked about this. You want a guy to pay for first dates? Um, they don't have to, but if they do, that's a great look. It's it's a it's a plus. Um, do you want a guy

Brian Atlaswho's a protector? Yeah. You want a guy who's a provider? Yes, if you can. You want a guy who's a leader? Yes. Okay. Uh, when it comes to the protection component, would you have an expectation even on the first date or deeper into

Brian Atlasthe relationship that if you guys are walking along the sidewalk that the guy is walking closer to the road where the cars are? That's being a protector. Protector. And would you expect this on a first date? I would notice if he

Brian Atlasdoesn't. So, okay. And but it would be something you'd want in a relationship. Yeah, of course. And then you'd want them to protect you in other circumstances. Okay. So, just to be clear, uh you want old school. Do you do you want the guy to be old school and

Brian Atlastraditional in all the ways that men are typically old school and traditional? I would I guess so. Well, you want your age total double standard in the ways that benefits her, right? And so, just

Brian Atlasto be clear though, so you want a guy to essentially be willing to die for you, but you won't take his last name. I I think die for me that's like I'd never said that protecting you. Isn't that the

Brian Atlaseven even the walking closer to the where the cars are in the road? Isn't that an entailment of that very thing is he's willing to essentially put his life at risk to the point of death to protect? That's a valid question. Um I

Kelly Vargassee your your point of view, but I think at the end of the day, I would want to be with someone who would if I said no to them and then I explained why they would be understanding. So you want to have the the conversation like you want

Brian Atlasto have a conversation with the guy. You want to explain to him why, despite him being traditional and old school, why he needs to accept your modernity? Yes, of course. Okay, cool. So, what if

Brian Atlashe wants to start having conversations with you about his traditional gender expectations? For example, babe, I want to have a conversation about who's going to pay. And it sounds like you're okay with that

Brian Atlasone. So, but he wants to have a conversation of, you know, I'd actually prefer if you walked closer to the road so that you could conceivably get run

Kelly Vargasover by a car. He's a modern guy. I That would to me that No, I would not. You wouldn't like that. Okay. I would.

Jay DyerUm Okay. And so you an Italian hot mess that doesn't want you to take his last name, but is traditional in all the ways

Brian Atlasthat you want. Okay. So what does the traditional old school guy get? What do you mean get? Well, so if if we're going to lay out some of the things, access to a pop star. Yeah. Oh,

Brian Atlaspop star. Access to a rising pop star is what? So if we lay out the things that you want, so you want a old school traditional guy. So, uh, the entailment there is going to be protecting and providing you. Uh, I think being willing

Brian Atlasto and potentially dying for somebody that seems like a pretty return is what you're saying. Like what do they get in return? Yeah. What do they get that specifically uh you would be bringing? Okay. Um, I

Kelly Vargasprovide um I guess the term submission like I do love to be feminine. I do love to take care of people. Nurturing. Sure. Yeah. Nurturing I would say. I love to cook. I'm a cooker. So yeah, I would

Kelly Vargasprovide that. um being able to order. So if he told you to make a sandwich, you would do it. Oh, that's so rude. Like like in a in a like a rude way like No,

Kelly Vargasit was the most polite charitable way one could say. People Men who are like against feminism would always say like go make me a sandwich in the kitchen. Um yes, I would say so. Okay. And I would I

Kelly Vargaswould cook for the man, but if he's like immediately going into the relationship expecting me to cook for him and being like, "Well, I you have to build trust. You can't just come into a relationship." Wait, wait, wait, wait.

Kelly VargasBuild trust on the first date. He's supposed to risk his life walking you on the sidewalk. He doesn't have to risk his life. It's nice if he would. It's nice if you made a sandwich. Nice if you died. What if he's saying to me, "Hey, go go go in the kitchen and make me a sandwich." That's like rude. I feel like

Kyla Turnerthat's what most Okay. What if he what if he was like um I think it's rude that he has to ask I mean in this exchange, right? Like it would be rude if she said walk on on the sidewalk side for me, right? Like everyone would agree like damn that's like [ __ ] [ __ ] right?

Kyla TurnerI think we would all agree that would be like a pretty [ __ ] move. It'd also be really socially weird on a first date actually. Go make me a sandwich. I'd be like you have no social skills. I don't know about this. I actually disagree with that. I think if a man was like not

Kyla Turneraware of it and the woman was like what are you doing? Like protect me. Like I think a man would actually be responsive to that. Um yeah, I maybe but in general I think men are a lot better at rolling

Brian Atlaswith like criticism than women often are. Yeah, I'll engage with that. So I mean Okay, so you're saying the guy should just do it. Okay, so the woman should just make the sandwich. Just to be clear, I don't give a [ __ ] We shouldn't have to tell her to make the

Kyla Turnersandwich. She should just preemptively know to make the sandwich. Uh well, here's where I would argue with the feminist. She's not Here's where I would argue with the feminist. You're in favor of the sandwich? Yeah. Uh, no. I would

Kyla Turnersay if you have certain like traditional chivalous expectations that would be an immediate ick if like not foreseen and you don't give any grace in between, but you expect high levels of grace in return, you're creating a very losing

Kyla Turnersituation for all men, which is shitty to do. It's a shitty thing to do. However, if you have mutual grace and discuss these things, so for example, there's lots of things that my husband will ask me to do all the time and I'm happy to do it, right? He might just be

Kyla Turnerlike sitting down watching TV and be like, "Hey, can you go get me a drink?" Yeah, of course I can. Right. But part of the exchange is that when he's up, I can also ask him to do the same. But that's something that we've also take his last name. Yeah. Okay. I just want

Jim Bobto point out that even the way in which we're discussing this is is in a very particular way. It's purely individualistic. Whereas if we're really talking about tradition, it used to be the case that women and men were

Jim Bobactually raised that this is just what you do. So you actually just do this sandwich making and you actually want to do it right because it's part of a larger structure that's more valuable

Jim Bobthan your own individual preferences. Even as we discuss this, it's like well what's the contract? I think the important thing is to sit down and make a contract. And this is all modernity playing out. When we're talking about

Jim Bobtraditionalism, it's kind of a joke to ask anyone uh you know, no offense, but you asking you about traditionalism. You're just like you're taking it like it's like you're at a salad bar and you're like here's some cucumbers and

Jim Bobwhat the tradition the traditional perspective is that the tradition is the entire room. It's not the salad. It's not the salad bar and you're able to change the issue I think the issue that we have with modernity dating is that

Kyla Turnerthe room is changed. Right? The problem with the banquet table is that now for the man to even be able to go to the table this this is going to break down immediately. I'll just say this. In the past, men could just work and make enough money for both of them and run

Kyla Turnerthe household for most. But then feminism happened and then all the women went into the work and then lowered the dollar. War happened and like Yeah. But if we didn't have women go into the workplace, our GDP would have never

Kyla Turnercompeted. And if we didn't shift away from the gold backing, the only thing that matters, the GDP, the GDP is so fundamental for like everything when it comes to a nation state because if you don't have a competitive GDP, your enemies are able to stomp you. What is

Kyla Turneryour nation if it's not bound in something bigger than the GDP? Uh it's usually bound in some level of like civic nationality which is going to be the bigger thing. But you mean d like duties? Uh no, more like uh like

Kyla Turnerpatriotism like uh love for country, not duties. Yeah, but what's the identity of country? GDP up. No, it's like American. Why don't we swap the flag with GDP up with a thumbs up? I know. I know you think this is a good because it's like

Kyla Turnerone of your memes, but it's nobody nobody thinks this GDP is important. if you don't understand for being able to be competitive with your enemy so that they don't destroy you. When it comes to like a relationship in what we're talking about, we have this issue where

Kyla Turnerthe economy is so different now that men can't bring to the table sole proprietorship. By and large, some can and those ones, I think, do get to make different concessions and negotiations on the relationship. But by and large,

Kyla Turnermen have to say, "I need you to come to the table for economic income, too." And that necessarily means that women get to have more negotiation power for what the relationship looks like, what they want in return. And the problem with a lot of modern men in dating is that all they

Kyla Turnerfeel like they can bring is money. Because unfortunately, our society has attached a male's value to their like their dollar, their wallet, which I think is a tragedy. And I think it's bad when women do that to men. And I think

Kyla Turnerit's bad when men, but you just said the GDP is like the key thing. Yeah, GDP is really important, but that doesn't mean that the part but then it's a tragedy that men's wallet matters relationship. It's not a contradiction at all to say

Kyla Turnerthat like at a nation state level GDP is important to be competitive and not get destroyed by your enemies. But at an individual level only value in a relationship is the dollars that they let me make it

Jim Bobclear but it should be more value the character that they have. Your value scale is arbitrary as well. It's not arbitrary. It's also it's worse. It's actually it's actually pretty bad. is is that at the individual level it's a

Jay Dyertragedy but at the nation level it's the ultimate value. Yes. Your scale is arbitrary and when you argued it with me you said it was subjective and relative and what you believe is right and relative doesn't mean arbitrary. These

Jay Dyerare not the same thing. These are not the same words. You argue that it's relative and then you make an argument it's arbitrary. That's not true at all. It is you don't know basic philosophy debate. presuppositionalism

Kyla Turneris that has nothing to do with whether relativism is a answer the question before I'm sorry I'm so tired presuppositionalism doesn't solve a criminal any better than foundational never had a philosophy class to even

Kyla Turnerspeak on these I know you're saying this point after watching your debate I don't think you have a degree in philosophy because you would know that preism does not solve a grippa's dilemma

Kyla Turnerit's it relies on dog coherentism as the solution to a grippa's trilmma, you know, or you're not educated in it, you know that a gripper's trilmma is not solved by

SPEAKER_11presuppositionalism. It's not solved by anything. It is not coherentism. Does not solve dogmatism. You don't even know. You didn't know what coherentism was until yesterday. You just learned it yesterday. I don't have to know every single philosophical. If you're going to

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