3x RAGE QUIT! She Did 100 Men In 1 DAY?! 1,000 NEXT?! Lily Phillips! Eva Lovia! | Dating Talk #227

Date: 2025-02-12

Duration: 7h 37m

Guests

Brian Atlas

AAya (Idaho/SF)>

CCandace Horbach >

LLily Phillips >

BBecca Slider >

CCarly (SB/LA)>

KKatrina (Ottawa)>

DDanielle (Ontario)>

AAndrew Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00TTS/Donations(audience)

SPEAKER_01Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_03Carly(guest)

SPEAKER_04Danielle(guest)

SPEAKER_05Aya(guest)

SPEAKER_06Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)(guest)

SPEAKER_07Patrice O'Neal (clip)(audience)

SPEAKER_08TTS/Donations(audience)

SPEAKER_09Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_11Katrina(guest)

SPEAKER_12Becca Slider(guest)

SPEAKER_13Lily Phillips(guest)

SPEAKER_14Upgrade(guest)

Key Moments

IntroAya introduces herself: 32yo, from Idaho (homeschooled, Calvinist), lives in SF. Researcher who also does escorting. Was top OnlyFans creator. Charges $4K/hr for escorting.

“all right I am Aya uh I'm 32 years old M uh my location is here but I originally came from Idaho and now I live in SF”

QuoteAya describes her escorting work: charges $4K/hr, met a client at her hotel the night before the show.

“I Char 4K for the first hour and then a th each additional hour okay how many did he just do the one or was he like a baller”

IntroCandace Horbach (Eva Lovia) introduces herself: 35yo, adult industry 2001-2017, now podcaster, based in NC/Austin. Graduated from Coastal Carolina University. Stage name Eva Lovia.

“my name is Candace horbach I'm 35 I was in the adult industry from about 2001 to 2017 um I left I started a podcast”

IntroLily Phillips introduces herself: 23yo from Darbyshire, England. Adult star. Discusses her 101-man-in-a-day challenge (October 2024) and plans to do 1000+ to break the world record (currently 1057 by Bonnie Blue).

“I'm Lily Phillips I am 23 I'm from darbishire in England I live in London um adult star”

QuoteLily Phillips announces her goal to break the world record for most men in a day (the current record is ~1057 by Bonnie Blue). Plans a "conveyor belt" setup.

“yeah H yeah so you're going to do a thousand in a in a day yes I was watching Australian check already do that”

QuoteLily describes upcoming skydiving sex scene project.

“at the end of this month I'm doing a Skydive where I suck a guys Park skydiving sex scene yeah somebody's done that I haven't seen anyone do it”

IntroBecca Slider introduces herself: 43yo confidence coach, speaker, podcaster, top 1% OnlyFans. Was ordained pastor for 10 years. Deconstructed faith ~5-6 years ago.

“I'm Becca slider I'm a confidence coach and a speaker and I host a podcast and then I'm also a 1% Creator on only fans”

IntroCarly introduces herself: 21yo, originally from Santa Barbara, lives in LA, studies marketing, part-time fashion model.

“hi yeah I'm Carly I'm 21 and I'm originally from Santa Barbara actually but I live in LA right now um and I go to college and I also model part-time”

IntroKatrina introduces herself: 35yo bartender from Ottawa, Ontario, high school education.

“my name's Katrina from Ottawa Ontario Canada I'm a bartender since I was 17 I have a high school education”

IntroDanielle introduces herself: 30yo from Elmont, Ontario. Studied addiction and justice studies. Worked for the Government of Canada.

“hi my name is Danielle I am 30 I am from Elmont Ontario uh very small town uh I went to school for addiction um along with Justice studies and police foundations”

IntroUpgrade (returning guest) introduces herself: 22yo singer-songwriter, here for her third song. Sings Etta James "At Last" a cappella.

“hello I'm upgrade this is my second time on the whatever podcast I'm 22 and and I am a singer songwriter”

IntroAndrew Wilson introduces himself: host of The Crucible, political analyst/satirist, engages in debates worldwide. Declines to sing.

“I'm not going to sing a song no sh no my name is now you have now I'm the host of The Crucible to popular entertainment Channel on YouTube I'm a political analyst”

QuoteAya reveals she showers only ~37 times per year (record low 14-17 in 2019) and her 2022 stats spreadsheet tracking all activities.

“showered 37 what uh lowest amount of times you've ever showered in a year uh I think it was like 14 17 I think 17”

QuoteBecca admits to pity sex with her husband while pregnant with third child — "wildly insatiable" during pregnancy.

“yeah yeah when I was pregnant shit you know uh yeah I mean pity but it because when I that sounds really bad when I was pregnant with my third I wanted sex every day it was it was insane”

ControversyAndrew Wilson debates Katrina vigorously about her role "running" a prostitute friend, arguing that acting as a pimp is "unadulterated evil" and parasitical. Katrina defends her intentions as trying to help.

“pimp is so parasitical a literal parasite on society almost as bad as a prostitute herself”

QuoteCandace formally apologizes to Brian for making a video misrepresenting him without doing due diligence, then bows to him (rated B-minus by Brian).

“I'm so sorry that I didn't do my due diligence and I just took the gossip train and then made a video that got a lot of views and misrepresented you and your show”

QuoteBrian shows "bow video" of ex-girlfriend bowing 45 degrees and doing his laundry, cooking dinner after he came home at 1am from a podcast.

“this is a video I took of my ex-girlfriend I came home it was late 1:00 a.m. after a podcast boom huge do you see the bow deep bow that was a 45 degree angle”

ControversyAndrew challenges Lily on the "unconditional parental love" debate — argues that cutting off contact for a child doing porn is not abandonment but maintaining behavioral standards. Goes in circles extensively.

“how about this what if I mean wait that makes wait wait a second that makes no sense so if it is the case they don't want you to do only fans”

QuoteKatrina's notable quote about body count: "if you give sex away for free you might as well get paid for it, ain't nothing worse than a broke ass hoe."

“if you give sex away for free you might as well get paid for it ain't nothing worse than a broke ass hoe in my opinion”

QuoteLily Phillips says her body count is between 500-1000 when asked.

“range what was it last time can't remember what I said last time cuz last time I I still didn't count last time um I'm going to go right now probably between 500 to 1,000”

QuoteAya reveals precise body count breakdown: ~109 unpaid, ~450 paid clients, total ~550.

“uh probably low 500s and 109 free wait 109 free like unpaid unpaid okay how many do you think paid or uh well I have a CRM”

ControversyAndrew challenges Aya and Candace on scientific methodology (controls, sample size) during body count/study discussion. Goes on for over 20 minutes before Brian cuts it.

“studies are all shit you haven't read my studies dude listen yes I have dove into your studies which is how I knew that teenagers were over sampled”

ControversyAndrew tells Candace to use a "sing-song voice" if she wants him to treat her with respect, sarcastically mocking her complaint about his tone being disrespectful. This pushes Candace to her limit.

“from now on when you talk to me I need you to use a sing song voice The singest sest Voice you can possibly think of because otherwise I feel disrespected”

OtherRAGE QUIT #1: Candace Horbach rage quits. Brian confirms "she rage quit." Andrew had pushed her too far with tone/condescension complaints. She said she was going to check on her husband, then left.

“I'm going to go check on her I'll be right back I okay that's fine uh all right she Rage Quit”

OtherRAGE QUIT #3: Becca Slider and others (Aya, possibly others) also leave at same time as Candace. Brian attempts to get Becca back, saying "is Becca coming back?"

“we we got we're wrapping up I'll you Candace we're Candace Candace I think we're done it's so pass for anyway”

OtherRAGE QUIT #2: Andrew Wilson voluntarily departs, citing 3am and the show being almost done. Acknowledges his presence was offensive, says his job is to challenge worldviews.

“I'll I can see that my presence has been very offensive it's 3 o'clock in the morning anyway that's my dip time yeah it was very very nice to meet all of you”

QuotePatrice O'Neal clip played: "If you didn't have a vagina, how would you keep your man?" Guests answer with mouth, hands, other holes, cooking. Brian plays the reveal where Patrice says "you just classified yourself as a series of holes."

“ladies if you didn't have a vagina like say it was a terrible train accident right and the doctor was like we have to remove your pussy right away or you're going to die how how would you keep your man”

Topics Discussed

Guest Introductions & Background

All 9 guests introduce themselves: name, age, location, occupation, education. Includes Aya (researcher/escort from Idaho), Candace Horbach/Eva Lovia (adult film actress/podcaster), Lily Phillips (viral 101-man adult star), Becca Slider (ex-pastor/confidence coach), Carly (model/student), Katrina (bartender, Ottawa), Danielle (Ontario, addiction studies), Upgrade (singer-songwriter), Andrew Wilson (political analyst remote).

Relationship Status Round

Each guest shares their relationship status, longest relationship, and context. Highlights: Aya (polyamorous 4yr open relationship), Candace (married 15 years, open during her career), Lily (single 3-4 years), Becca (divorced after 21 years, ethically non-monogamous), Carly (5mo single after 5yr relationship ended by cheating), Katrina (8mo relationship), Danielle (2yr relationship), Upgrade (2yr relationship with 41yo man).

Aya Pre-Show Notes: Homeschooling, Sex Work, Data & Polyamory

Brian goes through Aya's pre-show notes: evangelical Calvinist upbringing in Idaho, homeschooled, escaped factory work via adult content. Aya discusses her annual stats spreadsheet, shower frequency (37/year), LSD addiction, Lex Fridman interview, and polyamorous relationship. Debate over subordination of women morphs into semantic debate with Andrew.

Should Men Lead in Relationships? / Subordination Debate

Brian asks whether men should lead/be the "head" in relationships and who should get final say in a marriage impasse. Andrew frames it as a "threshold breaker" question. Most guests say it is circumstantial; Candace and Upgrade favor traditional male leadership. Aya goes full semantic on meaning of "should." Andrew clashes with Aya over philosophical definitions.

Eva Lovia / Candace Pre-Show Notes & OnlyFans Fraud Discussion

Candace discusses her career as Eva Lovia, her disclaimer on OnlyFans (entertainment only, no AI/chatters, to protect against delusional fans). Brian raises concerns about fraud by OnlyFans creators who use chatters/AI while claiming personal interaction. Aya reveals she tried a chatter and income skyrocketed but it made her sad. Discussion of body count stats and body count survey data from Aya's research.

Bear vs. Man Debate

Brian asks the classic "bear or man in the woods" question. Most guests pick bear. Andrew and Brian argue the position is logically equivalent to a racist position if applied to a demographic group, making it sexist. Upgrade says picking bear is sexist but may come from personal experience.

Becca Slider: Ex-Pastor to OnlyFans, "Pussy-Based Confidence"

Becca explains her journey from 10-year ordained evangelical pastor to confidence coach and OnlyFans creator. She discusses "pussy-based confidence" (sexual creative life force), Christian deconstruction, the role of fear in Christianity's foundations, bisexuality since age 16, swinging then open marriage, and her coaching philosophy. Andrew challenges her framework as a form of dogma/programming.

Katrina: Running a Prostitute, Drug World, Show Notes

Brian reads Katrina's pre-show notes: she has two moms, "ran" a prostitute friend (did makeup/calls/driving) as an attempt to help. Andrew debates the ethics of pimping vigorously with Katrina. Katrina describes discovering her "gangster" boyfriend having sex with a male friend (traumatizing experience). She says ain't nothing worse than a broke hoe.

Candace Apology & Bow to Brian

After Brian reveals Candace had made a video misrepresenting him (based on unverified secondhand Special Forces claim), Andrew pushes her to apologize. She eventually does, apologizing for not doing due diligence. Brian then asks her to bow — she does (rated B-minus). Discussion of the "bow video" Brian made of his ex-girlfriend.

Self-Rating Round (1-10, no 7)

Brian asks each guest to rate their own appearance 1-10 (cannot pick 7). Aya: 4.6; Candace: declined/no number; Lily: 8; Becca: 8; Carly: 6; Katrina: 8 (with makeup)/4 (without); Danielle: 6; Upgrade: 6; Andrew: 4-5. Andrew lectures about women lying about their self-assessments in social groups vs. men who call each other out. Long debate with Aya over semantics of "judging."

Lily Phillips Parenting / Sex Work & Unconditional Love Debate

Brian asks Lily whether she would have done OnlyFans if her parents gave an ultimatum. Debate spirals into Andrew challenging whether parents cutting off contact for sex work is "abandoning" the child (Lily's view) vs. maintaining behavioral standards (Andrew's view). Most guests feel unconditional parental love means maintaining contact. Andrew says love can coexist with behavioral standards.

AI Age Progression & Gender Swap Photos

Brian shows AI-generated aged versions of all guests (10+ years older) and gender-swapped versions. Comedic segment; Lily's aged version prompts "crypt keeper" jokes. Guests react to their gender-swapped versions and whether they would date/sleep with the male version of themselves.

Body Count Round & Discussion

Brian asks each guest their body count. Lily: 500-1000; Aya: ~550 (109 unpaid, ~450 paid); Candace: 9 personal + ~12-20 work scenes; Carly: 23-28; Danielle: 8; Katrina: under 35 (excluded coerced encounters); Upgrade: single digit; Andrew: did not give number. Discussion of whether body count matters (Lily: makes you better in bed; Becca: patterns matter more; Candace: 9 personal; most say circumstantial). Aya's survey data shows median ~5, raising to 10 by age 40. Andrew and Candace debate sample size and scientific controls.

All Day Foreplay / Viral Clip Discussion (Candace)

Candace describes her viral Twitter clip about "all-day foreplay" — the idea that women's arousal has more on/off switches (stressors = brakes), and that men following through on commitments reduces stress and improves intimacy. Andrew challenges this, arguing data shows women are most attracted to men who DON'T do chores (traditional masculine non-domestic behavior), that what she's really describing is feminist relationship dynamics. Extended debate about whether follow-through is masculine or if asking men to do chores is attraction-killing.

Rage Quit #1 — Candace & Others Leave

Andrew's confrontational tone throughout the show reaches a breaking point. Candace's husband texts. After hours of debate, Candace says "I'm going to go check on her [wife]" and leaves. Aya stays to wait for roast. Brian says "she rage quit." Carly, Becca and others also start to leave. Brian pleads for them to stay.

Andrew Wilson Rage Quit / Departure

Andrew acknowledges his presence has been offensive and says "it's 3 o'clock in the morning anyway, that's my dip time." Insists he wasn't trying to insult anyone — his job is to challenge worldviews. Lily tells him they're not getting into this anymore. Andrew says goodnight and leaves.

Roast Session

Final roast session with remaining guests (Carly, Lily, Katrina, Danielle, Upgrade). $30 TTS messages come in roasting all guests. Highlights: "Lily Phillips father" donates for her chair; OJ Simpson character asks Carly about a skin tag; Thor says "make low body count great again." Brian offers Lily $20/hour to stop sex work. Patrice O'Neal clip played about "how would you keep your man if you had a train accident."

Makeup Removal Challenge

Brian brings out makeup wipes (Neutrogena brand, debated). Carly and others try to remove makeup on camera. Light segment after emotional episode.

Transcript

Page 1 of 8

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Brian Atlasa Discord oh my goodness this is long-winded we have a Discord discord.gg whatever we post our stream schedule behind the scenes hate mail a bunch of

Brian Atlasother stuff guys uh last episode dating talk 226 I posted two different well three different videos actually behind the scenes we had to kick off a feral woman uh who refused to leave she was

Brian Atlaskicked off off the show I don't anticipate that happening tonight we have a very uh Pleasant panel but uh she had to be removed because she was calling me the nword she was bringing up my

Brian Atlasrace I felt it was it was uh anyways you know had to had to kick her out then she proceeded to cry in the hallway it was a whole thing she was eating and crying at

Brian Atlasthe same time which is a is quite the site so and then there's the shoe gate situation from you know the whole shoe she refused to take her shoes off made a big S it whatever I described it as in

Brian Atlasthe Stream we got the security camera footage it was way worse way worse than how I you know how it uh described on stream very compatitive anyways um

Brian Atlasdiscord.gg whatever if you want to check it out okay uh disclaimer the views expressed by the guest do not necessarily reflect the views of the whatever Channel and last thing really quick I do want to give a heads up to the panel well I already told you guys

Brian Atlasthis but to the audience uh we do have a lot to get through tonight um given the guests that we do have a lot of pre-show notes so the pace is going to be a little quicker tonight won't have too much time to linger On Any Given topic

Brian Atlasbut uh uh we are going to be moving pretty fast so with that said without further Ado we're going to have the guests introduce themselves so please tell us your name age location

Ayaoccupation and education go ahead all right I am Aya uh I'm 32 years old M uh my location is here but I originally

Ayacame from Idaho and now I live in SF uh I have no education I was homeschooled MH and I make most of my money through research right now but I also have done

Brian Atlassex stuff of varying sorts in the past when did you uh when did you start doing s work started sing about 2018 2018 okay um and what's the nature of the or I

Ayaguess the scope of the S work that you've been involved in well I have ads online and then people email me and they're like hey can I meet up and I'm like yeah and then they show up and then we go to hotel room and then they give me money actually did it last night in

Ayathe hotel room that I used to stay here so I met somebody are you guys sharing uh no we're the same Hotel not same Hotel oh wow okay yeah so a lovely

Ayagentleman he's really great um okay yeah all right and uh what's I guess uh is there like a going rate or is it just kind of I Char 4K for the first hour and then a th each

Brian Atlasadditional hour okay how many did he just do the one or was he like a baller and just it was a couple hours like how what if what if somebody wants like a day like 24 hours is that you give them a discount or I just changed it a little

Ayabit I think it's like 40K or something maybe 30 okay it doesn't happen often I don't really escort that much anymore because I make more money from writing but um okay I still occasionally what do

Andrew Wilsonyou what go what do you do with the hotel rooms you guys just um talk about things chess uh yes and also have entra course oh okay cool and uh you also did

AyaO 2 is that correct and you were kind of an early adopter is my understanding yeah yeah I was one of the first I signed up first in 2017 um and then when it first hit I was

Ayauh making around 100K a month very early um but now I don't work on it that much anymore it's kind of repetitive okay got it uh what about you uh my name is

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)Candace horbach I'm 35 I was in the adult industry from about 2001 to 2017 um I left I started a podcast that's what I'm doing now I'm in North Carolina

Brian Atlasand splitting my time between there and Austin got it uh and any uh college or university or anything like that bachelor's degree in Psychology gotcha can you say which university or Coastal

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)Carolina and the funny thing is I'm not supposed to say that because when I I do now openly but when I was in school I had the dean actually bring me in and that was I was in film at the time and she's it was a very big deal that I was

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)on film and going to college so she was like just don't say you graduated from here I was like well now I'm going to do that at every opportunity I can cuz I spent a lot of money so you had uh you

Brian Atlashad started doing uh cornography while you're still in college yes and she's like hey don't disclose because I see I see okay and

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)you were uh I'm sorry I just did my notes Here what did you say the last name was horbach it's it's I know it's it's supposed to be horbach but that is

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)like way too po for me or anyone to say so it's uh we just say horback it's not mine that is like super ironic but okay

Brian AtlasI know I know written in the stars and um so you were in uh your senior year of University when you started doing sex work or um I think it was my junior I

Brian Atlaswas going parttime mhm and was there like a period of time where like people didn't know but then like your fellow student body did they find out it came out pretty quick okay and like how was

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)that I guess going through maybe your senior year where like people knew maybe even your Junior I don't know amongst peers it was fine cuz when you're young like that people don't tend to be as judgmental and you don't really understand the ramification so you kind

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)of just like live in that moment and you can be kind of seduced by all of those things um Family obviously didn't take it well I think it's very rare that they do so that was an issue um but I feel

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)like most of the negative impacts of that decision came like way later after I got out actually okay and um uh are

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)you able to share the your creator name or yeah yeah I don't care I'm an open book yeah so my stage name was evalovia um I mean they both names are kind of

Lily Phillipstied together in perpetuity got it okay um what about you um I'm Lily Phillips I am

Lily Phillips23 I'm from darbishire in England I live in London um um what was the the question uh occupation occupation and uh

Lily Phillipseducation adult star and the highest level education I think I got was a btech at College btech yes and was that like a so just before you go off to University you go to college in England

Brian Atlasyou could rather go to college or do a levels and I went to college and did btech okay I mean and you recently uh and you've been on the show before so welcome back thank you um you've

Brian Atlasrecently created quite a stir online with uh you filmed a uh a 100 per you slept with 100 men 101 101 get it right

Brian Atlasyou snuck another one in there um uh and that was in December or November when was that I did that in October October okay and uh there was a documentary surrounding it went super viral

Brian Atlaseverybody was com still is commenting on it I actually saw you did a recent interview with Russell BR is that yes interesting one definitely and so but

Brian Atlasyou're now your eyes are set at you going to step it up what's going on number a thousand yeah H yeah so you're going to do a thousand in a in

Unknowna day yes I was watching Australian check already do that paron I think she did a 100 or something what did you say sorry say I thought that Australian chick who was on the show already did

Andrew Wilsonthat I don't know about that but yeah I did 101 and now I'm going for a thousand yeah I thought she did a Brian I I can reference the article though I think that the it was like the

Andrew WilsonAustralian I don't know they have like a Sun Times or something and they were writing about that art or writing about that I'll I'll reference it but I thought yeah I thought that that had already been achieved I guess well my understanding with Lily here is whatever

Brian Atlasthe record is you're going to break it yeah I want to break a record that's it doesn't matter who's done it before or whatever and then I guess what are the terms of that like how logistically a th

Lily Phillipsthat's a lot like how are you going to it all has to be like penetrative and yeah just in out in out on like a conveyor about of Cox a conveyor about a

Lily Phillips[ __ ] Carousel yeah yeah just okay amazing all right um and they each get like two minutes or how does that less less like 40 seconds i' probably say

Lily Phillipslike honestly each of them get like five seconds for a second just to see yeah like they get one thrust yeah one thrust each so this was um apparently the

Andrew Wilsonrecord set by Bonnie Blue it was 1057 men the single day that's who I was referencing by the Australian chick but yeah so iess I guess that's been done so

Brian Atlasyou you got so you got to go up to like 1100 this is like Cristiano Ronaldo liel Messi like this is do you guys have beef or you guys no no homies you and this

Lily Phillipsother girl yeah she's she works my industry do you guys motivate each other like do motivate just you want to keep yeah we can keep [ __ ] up you know what there's enough guys in this world to [ __ ] us both so British sorry she's

Lily PhillipsBritish not Australian my bad there is another Australian woman who I was mentioning this to her before the show who also did like yeah I feel like now now like the the high numbers has come out there's been like a lot of people

Brian Atlassay they want to do it another Turkish girl say she wants to do 100 she got ared who was the one who did like the virgins was that the a virgins virgin or the you did the Virgin wait I didn't do

Brian Atlasan all virgin but you did like 20 I did 23 okay we did like a 23 man bang okay but and then we that day we'd done 37 yeah and how do you find it like is it a like a Craigslist at or I guess that

Lily Phillipsjust put put the address online whoever can shop can shop you do like TV ads or Billboards or you should do literally just like just social media the Power of social media Tik Tok Twitter Instagram

Lily Phillipsjust post the IG story yeah hell yeah what's what's like the title of the pitch I think my Myst yeah my my poster was like want to break a world record or something or

Brian Atlasanother like that and it was just like you know textas number and then um another thing that kind of recently went viral I don't know if this was just kind of like a bit or whatever but I saw you you did a video where you were walking

Lily Phillipsin the streets of with spunk on my face with with yes um was that real like actually you should see the the actual video I did put it on PornHub so you can

Lily Phillipsgo VI it but um the one of the guys who cuz I did like um a threesome with two guys and one of the guys is called plaster mat and he has the biggest loads I've ever seen and I was like I was so

Lily Phillipsamazed I was like I need to go onto the street with this on my face cuz it's just so amazing like honestly it he's alien like it's that much com he's alien yeah

Brian Atlasthat's interesting okay it looks and it looks like fake com cuz it's so much but it's really not you should see the video and uh okay anyways you were you walked around you filmed yourself okay um that

Brian AtlasAl went viral um what's next for Lily Phillips at the end of this month I'm doing a Skydive where I suck a guys Park skydiving sex scene yeah somebody's done that I haven't seen anyone do it not the

Lily Phillipspeople do parag guiding but I want to do skydiving Sky div yeah cuz parag is pretty easy Tough sex on what's after that you going to suck a dick in space

Brian Atlashell yeah Elon Musk she's wow he can get ambitious this is very ambitious um wow okay cool well we'll get we'll get into some of that more stuff as we uh get through the show what about you I'm

Becca SliderBecca slider I'm a confidence coach and a speaker and I host a podcast and then I'm also a 1% Creator on only fans all right uh age 43 okay and uh where where

Brian Atlasare you from where do you live Ohio I just totally stopped short sorry about that and uh educ an unfinished degree and counseling unfinished did you get your ass it will not be finished no okay and uh my understanding at least what

Becca Slideryou indicated to us in your pre-show notes you used to be a pastor correct I was a pastor for which denomination it's non- denominational okay yeah um so you were like I don't know the process were you ordained how does that work uh yeah ordained so it would be more of an

Becca SliderEvangelical style of church okay and then you were um like were you raised as a Christian oh yeah I was raised Conservative Christian also non non denominational n denominational and then

Becca Sliderdid you have to go to like a school to become a pastor or how does that work no um it depends on the church you're in every denomination is very different as to what they allow and a lot of denominations do not allow women to be

Becca Sliderin Ministry yeah and how long were you a pastor for um on staff and and then unpaid as well 10 years 10 years mhm but

Becca Sliderno longer no actually about uh five six years ago I not only walked away stepped down from Ministry I walked away from the church I deconstructed my faith which was one of the hardest most

Becca Sliderpainful things I've ever done in my life and uh yeah now I'm I would consider myself spiritual but absolutely do not subscribe to any Christian beliefs so you're maybe agnostic yeah that would

Andrew Wilsonprobably be more accurate as an umbrella statement all right you you went through the process of Christian deconstruction yeah MH okay Y what uh just if you don't mind me asking very briefly sure what

Andrew Wilsonwas the most compelling argument for deconstruction for you the compelling argument to begin deconstruction no the compelling argument that led to you finally walking away from deconstruction

Becca Slidersure yeah it was actually getting really honest about the fact that the beliefs that are Staples of Christianity are all founded in fear they're not actually they're they're masked in love but they are founded in fear and therefore very

Andrew Wilsonunsupportive to a life that is eliminating fear and shame yeah so so they it wasn't any historical argument or anything like that it was something which was

Becca Sliderfoundational to how you felt about your life fear this type of thing yeah I would say that would be the the foundational part and then you said as far as like some of the things in the Bible that you can tear apart I didn't

Becca Slidereven get into a lot of those but I follow a lot of people who kind of tear them apart and it's pretty easy to see the holes I see okay all right what about

Carlyyou hi yeah I'm Carly I'm 21 and I'm originally from Santa Barbara actually but I live in LA right now um and I go to college and I also model part-time

Carlylike fashion industry so sure what are you studying in college I'm actually studying marketing like I'm planning on going into like fashion marketing and advertising I don't know it's I enjoy it

Katrinalike I really like being down there cool what about you um my name's Katrina from Ottawa Ontario Canada I'm a bartender

Brian Atlassince I was 17 I have a high school education age 35 89 was born in 89 okay and you said

Daniellejust high school education y okay all right what about you hi my name is Danielle I am 30 I am from Elmont

DanielleOntario uh very small town uh I went to school for addiction um along with Justice studies and police foundations

Danielleuh college level and then also uh worked for the government of Canada as an administrative assistant along with

Danielleserving uh part fulltime so a lot of workload and that's my sister is the day is the day of the r

Daniellehigher sorry is the day of the rake coming the maple Revolution Is it is it coming to

UpgradeCanada maybe maybe not against it go ahead hello I'm upgrade this is my

Upgradesecond time on the whatever podcast I'm 22 and and I am a singer songwriter and I came here to promote my third song um

Brian Atlassay I love you yeah no you came here to have discussion you don't admit oh my God okay uh go ahead sing let's hear you

Upgradesing go ahead do you like Eda James At Last scir watches the show yeah go ahead sing it I have to do my research yeah no that's go ahead that's my go-to

Upgrade[Music]

Upgradesorry my love has come [Music] along my lonely days are

Upgradeover and laugh is like a s [Music]

Brian Atlasall right there you go that was PR good A little uh a little flourish there at the beginning I was like where where she going with this but no it's good it was good all right Andrew what about

Andrew Wilsonyou I'm not I'm not going to sing a song no sh no my name is my name is now you have now I'm the host of The Crucible to popular entertainment Channel on YouTube

Andrew WilsonI'm a political analyst a political saturnist I engage in debates and conversations all around the world and I'm happy to be here tonight and talking with all of you all right welcome everybody we have uh two chats coming in here I'm going to let them come in from

TTS/Donationsmetromat sorry for the delay on these metromat donated $200 wow Brian you really outed yourself this time the ultimate D gen panel can't

Brian Atlaswait to hear the grift from the P Stars oh man okay do you guys want to respond to these Metro Mt here I love it takes one to No

Brian AtlasOne Metro matad sorry to need to be a to no a peace car that's a new one everybody pay attention to this guy uh yo Metro Matt thank you man appreciate it um sorry for the delays on these we

TTS/Donationsjust wanted to get through the intro here but uh oh Bo Metro M donated $200 there's more bodies between those three than all of UCSB this is the prime example of why

Brian Atlasmore and more men don't trust or respect women send the asteroid all right I'll send the asteroid um he wants me to send the asteroid uh it's a little early to talk about body count Metro mat but I do appreciate the com does anybody want you

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)you feel free to respond to him if any of you want to I don't I don't really see the the insult so I mean people that have a more conservative view with sexuality and Body Count tend to pair up with each

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)other and then people that have higher body counts pair up with each other so the only issue that people have are the ones that are aren't actively seeking each other out so I don't it's fine yeah

Brian AtlasI'm not denying a high body count sure all right uh let's get into uh the pre- actually excuse me I need to get through this uh so what's your current relationship

Ayastatus and if you're single how long have you been single and what's the longest relationship you've ever been in go ahead I'm currently dating somebody I am polymeris uh I've been dating this

Brian Atlasperson for four years and currently yeah was that all of the questions uh longest relationship the four years is the longest yeah four years is that your

Brian Atlascurrent relationship four years okay and uh couple questions here you said you're paully right yeah um are there currently any other people that you're seeing right now uh not with dating but I

Brian Atlasdefinitely bang a lot other people for fun and uh your uh partners of the man or woman man man okay yeah and he's okay

Brian Atlaswith the escorting and you and I think you said was it banging a lot of I don't want to misquote bang a lot of people a lot of people yes men and women uh or

Brian Atlasjust men yes okay um and he's it's all copasetic for him he's cool with it I mean he's banging probably more women than I am banging men okay it's open for both of you yeah okay it's just a free-for all you guys compete at all

Brian Atlaslike yeah we were we're like head-to-head on our spread sheets for body count right now wow okay oh you both have spreadsheets yes okay um all right do you keep count yeah she's a data she's all about the

Brian Atlasdata so um oh also I guess kind of related to your intro I forgot this um there's a couple like uh interesting things about you that were on the internet uh you you set records for

Brian Atlasshowering or lack thereof yeah um and you posted a tweet about it because you keep impeccable data Damian can we pull up the shower tweet um but so I think it was in 2022 you tracked how many times

Brian Atlasyou did a variety of things one of these was showering oh every year and uh how many times did you shower in 2022 oh I think it was 34 or something I think it was 27 in last

Brian Atlasyear okay something like that uh pull it up do you have do you have the okay my 2022 in stats images images my uh and some uh went outside pooped socialized

Brian Atlasworked took Aderall drank alcohol danced had sex 63 cried 59 is there is there Le like crying and sex happens at the same time ever ideally yes ideally she's okay

Brian Atlasgot it it was good sex there's crying involved good good to know um wrote gamed had a good meal and at the very bottom showered and then scroll down just a little bit oh yeah whatever um so

Brian Atlasshowered 37 what uh lowest amount of times you've ever showered in a year uh I think it was like 14 17 I think 17 and that was in uh 2019 my guess and how

Brian Atlasabout how about for 2025 how's how's that looking so far uh two showers so far I want to challenge you I'd like to initiate a call to action Aya yes 2025

Brian Atlasis your year the least the least least amount of showers what do we think I think sub what's the world record sub 10 probably zero yeah for sure for sure well I figured out that uh if you

Ayaactually don't shower often enough my skin started turning darker uh from dirt that in a way that like wasn't coming off during the showering so I was like don't these don't these stats imply

Andrew Wilsonthough so I was just kind of looking at them you if you are having sex more often than you're showering does this imply that between clients you're not

Ayashowering I do hor baths so I do wash my it's see don't bring her into the wait what I I thought you said you do never

Brian Atlasmind those no I get a washcloth terrible you get a washcloth yeah you can spot wash what if you go in the shower but you only shower below the belt

Ayais that the shower sounds a little more annoying but is that the shower I don't there AER Point what you may as well just do a full shower at that point if you're doing half your body well what if

Andrew Wilsonyou shower you just like you just like wipe so I I mean I'm sorry to be graphic but you just like basically wipe a dude's jizz off and then you'll you're going to have sex with another guy and you don't shower in between even I mean

Andrew Wilsonwiping a dude's jizz off in the shower is what people do I just do it more locally yeah well I mean there's a there's a factor of like water power and pressure and all sorts of things that come with showering that probably not

Ayagoing to get from a washcloth well I do have a bedet and I use that very aggressively I basically like sandpaper off a layer of skin cheating you use your bedet when you're at a hotel cuz there's no bed in hotels last night check bedet after I get home and then

Andrew Wilsonbefore I go see a client some nice hotels maybe half yeah there isn't there isn't any bedday in the hotels there and you just saw a client so I assume you didn't shower post sleeping with this client right well I go home and then I bedet

Ayait's very simple did you bedday last night after your client no actually I haven't beded yet yeah I Haven but I did aggressively use a washcloth so aggressive washcloth you have to scrub

Brian Atlasit down until you're in a little bit of pain that okay nice um but you should try to set a record this year 2025 your year you can do this think I can do 15

Andrew Wilsonshowers want but I do I do shower more than 37 times a year not to brag you know but if it was a contest I would definitely be winning um and then and then uh let's

Ayasee um okay so but you're in this polyamorous relationship have you always been poly yes even when you were younger like 18 19 the first time I heard the word was I was like that is unambiguously me I'm absolutely poly and

AyaI've never doubted it since and never been like in a monogamous when I was a teenager and very Christian I was like ah monogamy is the thing and then I was tried to do that for a while and kind of failed is anybody else here well I guess

Brian Atlaswe'll we'll get into it we'll come back to some of this stuff but I'll just get everybody's relationship status uh Candace what about you uh married in 15 years married uh longest relation MH longest relationship 15 years is that

Brian Atlasthe guy who you're married to yes okay wait so you wait you've been with him for 15 years um and how long have you

Brian Atlasbeen married 10 10 10 years okay got it and um any other relationships before him or um I had one and that was eight

Brian Atlasyears eight years okay wait so that's was like high school okay got it got it um and so I mean you were involved and you still do like I mean

Brian Atlasyou have o right so you still do some content right yeah it's like it's much more tame than my previous work content yeah I don't work with anyone else mhm uh but you were in the traditional adult

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)content space um and you were with him for when did you so you were with him before you started I started webcamming so that was when we first kind of just started casually dating and then he was

Brian Atlasthere for the whole progression of everything gotcha and uh has it presented and if you you don't want to talk about that's fine but is it has it presented like any issues for the relationship of course yeah of course I

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)think like when you first brought it to him was he like on board or where so initially I again so I started webcamming that's and it was all implied so there wasn't any nudity that was for a while and I mean I took my time with

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)my career so it was was a very slow progression into what ended it with just like boy girl scenes but um solo wasn't an issue and then I transitioned to girl girl I did that for a while that's not an issue for most men so that wasn't

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)really a conversation and then as that started to kind of kick up my career I wanted to start shooting boy girl scenes initially he said absolutely not and I wasn't motivated enough so I said sure

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)I'm not going to do it that lasted a few years and then I got presented with a contract opportunity and those things were non-existent at that time so back in the '90s you had the contract girls

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)and that kind of what is what leveraged them and like in their careers it went away it wasn't profitable and they were starting to bring it back so I got pitched that to start a competition and I was like I know I'm going to win this thing what do you think and we talked

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)about it for months before I actually shot it and if you look at the whole scope it was like probably a two-year conversation before I made jump yeah MH and um was he so he was it was a

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)monogamous it was until I started shooting and then so like kind of open well I guess well so what I saw happening was like a lot of women were making such a harsh distinction between

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)sex that was for work versus like in their personal life so they expected their partner to be monogamous while they were shooting and their justification was that it was work and

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)while I do think there is a difference it's still intimacy on some level and I saw those relationships never worked you have to have the same rules across the board so I said if I'm going to do this

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)then we have to open up the whole thing for it to be fair MH and did he he was like dating other women at that point no he no he didn't I mean he maybe used

Brian Atlasthat privilege like once or twice okay yeah all right uh definitely really interesting though I mean you were you were in this relationship for the entire duration stayed together ended up

Lily Phillipsgetting married so okay uh what about you Lily um I'm single my longest relationship was probably just about 2

Lily Phillipsyears mhm um what was the other question how long have you uh been single um [ __ ] um when did I [ __ ] there probably like wait don't quote me on this I'm trying

Lily Phillipsto like actually think on maybe maybe getting on for about four years now three four years H okay all right uh but the relationship was very on and off so I can't be like oh we

Becca Sliderbroke up here and that sure you know what I mean bit like bit Rocky what about you I'm single divorced which which do you prefer uh

Brian Atlashow long were you married for 21 years and uh how long have you been divorced about a year a little over a year and how wait uh how long were you together

Brian Atlasin total 22 22 okay so 22 and you said sorry divorced for two years you said it's been a officially a year about a year oh one year okay how long

Becca Sliderseparated um the same yeah same amount of time okay yeah and uh uh who initiated the divorce I did okay did he see it coming or no yes I was very very communicative even starting about three

Becca Slideryears prior talking to him about just the fact that it was after deconstructing and realizing who more aligned with who I was like who am I a part from religion who am I apart from the roles that I play mhm and when you

Becca Sliderget to know yourself and you realize also getting married at 21 not really a good choice uh you don't know yourself at 21 so a lot had changed between the two of us and and not only did I not

Becca Sliderfeel it aligned to be married to him anymore I just didn't feel marriage was aligned for me at all I have a hard time with the construct of marriage so I am single I will be single I won't marry again any kids yes three children three

Becca Sliderchildren from him yes MH and um I'm trying to think here uh are you polyamorous I don't consider myself polyamorous um only because that's not something I've actually experienced yet

Becca SliderI do consider myself ethically non- monogamous eth ethically non- monogamous okay what's the uh distinction um so the way I would distinguish it and this isn't textbook um polyamorous you are

Becca Slideractually having more than one partnership and it would be treated very much like a relationship there's more romantic experiences involved with both you have love for both whereas for me

Becca SliderI'm very new out of the gate now even though we opened our marriage toward the end and so there have been a lot of relational aspects and things I've experienced I have no desire personally right now to have myself in a committed

Andrew Wilsonrelationship even with multiple people so right now I see so so just to just to clarify when you say polyamory you mean could be romantic other partners as well

Andrew Wilsonas your primary partner what you're talking about is that your marriage is open to the point where you just have sex with other people there's not a romantic intimacy involved in it yeah

Brian Atlasthat's correct okay gotcha all right all right um and have you been I mean you've been divorced for one year have there been other men in the picture uh just dating a little bit here and

Brian Atlasthere nothing serious no nothing serious but I mean you were married for what 21 years or something I mean did you just go like ham like

Becca Sliderlike bounds or anything um so we several years before the divorce we actually started down the route of partnering with other couples and that came about

Becca Sliderbecause I've always known I was bisexual and even told him prior to marriage M that I was into other women and had been with other women but then you get into the construct of oh now we're in church and we're in Ministry and you get you

Becca Sliderjust have to put that in a box you can't like experience that so he knew that about me and so we started having conversations after um deconstructing about that and the whole point was to actually bring in like a woman but he

Becca Sliderput us on a swinger website and I was like oh okay I'm very openminded though just as a person in general so I was like yeah whatever we'll try it out so we did that for a little while um it's not my jam it's a little too

Becca Slideroverstimulating there's just too many people involved uh but then we moved to more of an open relationship status um and yeah I it's really hard for me because I care very much about the

Andrew Wilsonenergetics of being with someone and so for me like when I stand or just finding somebody who's a good [ __ ] is not sorry I'm trying not to can you um can you help me with the timeline just uh just a bit so with your with the same sex

Becca Sliderattraction were you experiencing that before you became a pastor and Minister oh yeah absolutely absolutely since I was since I was 16 17 yeah were you sleeping with women before you became a pastor um before I got married before I

Andrew Wilsongot married so yes that would be before I was a pastor absolutely okay got it and then the church I remember you said it was non-denominational MH uh were they pretty accepting towards lgbtq they

Becca Sliderwere accepting but it was it was um love the sin or not the sin so it was still considered absolutely wrong okay gotcha all right

Brian Atlasthank you for clarifying appreciate it and uh so you did swing during your marriage yep mhm okay and you would go to swingers parties or were you just meet up with a couple and meet up with a

Becca Slidercouple was more yeah we tried a few different like clubs that's again I mean how many different couples do you did you swing with um that's a good question

Carlymaybe four okay four total I think mhm sure all right all right uh what about you Carly um well like okay well I'm single

Carlyright now yeah single how long you been single for I've been single for like 5 months or it's been a while um my last relationship ended like over the summer

Carlyand it was like 5 years um yeah okay who broke up with who yeah he yeah he cheated on me with a teenager

Carlywith an 18 year-old um so an adult well it was like right after like he was waiting but yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um and so I found out and then I like

Brian Atlaspunched him in the dick and then that was it you punched him in the dick like literally or fig figuratively no like like literally yeah figuratively punched him in the dick okay nice in the balls

Brian Atlasdid the balls catch any I don't I mean or just the dick I don't know just you don't know you the general flash okay the general area I mean any rebounds any other guys you've been seeing or yeah

Carlyyeah I mean I've been like kind of just going out and like doing whatever cuz I mean catching up on 5 years is like you know what do you mean by catching up on

Carlyfive years what does that what does that mean just like well basically like just going out on dates like seeing different people and like just kind of figuring

Carlyout like what my type is and like how all that works out and I mean kind of similar like I mean I'm I'm pan and so I've been out with like a bunch of

Carlydifferent people and women and all of that and it's just been like good to yeah like catch up with the last five years sure and uh do you have a roster currently a roster no like are you kind

Carlyof like dating multiple people or just not right I don't know previously previously I had I had a roster how big was the roster it wasn't that big it was

Brian Atlaslike okay five six like yeah like maybe seven seven multip by three and that's the real number no that's seven I mean 21

Carlythat's czy just the roster but no yeah that's like too many people to keep up with okay and then do you have a roster currently you got a roster cuz you're enm right so I don't keep track why would I keep track so it's it's you

Becca Slidercan't even keep track right it's like no but I didn't have a roster before oh no it's not it's not 100 I have no idea how do you know if it's not 100 if you don't keep track uh just because of

Becca Slidertime in right so like how much time I've actually not been and I'm not having I'm wildly under effed so wildly under so you're celibate no I'm just under oh you

Unknownyou are getting effed but not enough accurate under effed accurate when's the last time you got left like a month ago damn girl okay she's been celebrate for a month okay uh do you have wait I'm

Brian Atlassorry I'm confused um didn't she say you were married no she's the conversation um and so but did you have a rebound or you mean when I after I got divorced no

Becca Sliderthere's no rebound because we were already having sex with other people so it was a very easy transition out oh not just the swinging you were like individually [ __ ] other people during no there was like the swinging and then that ended and then it was open

Brian Atlasrelationship during the marriage during the marriage for a period of it correct and then you were okay you were seeing people then I see okay yeah all right and uh

Brian Atlaswas there a roster during the marriage we were monogamous up until that point up until the swinging yeah but so there's The Swinging then it was open during the open period did you have a

Brian Atlasroster just during the open Period or after sure oh like how many different people were you kind of like simultaneously D at the same oh very few because I can't I don't have time for

Katrinathat maybe two okay sure uh relationship status for you I'm in a relationship with um a guy feel like eight months and he's awesome all right longest

Katrinarelationship that's a tricky question I was like on and off with a guy for like 10 years he broke my heart um before my current relationship I was single for 4 years um and I had a

Katrinaroster if that's what you want to call it but half of them were my exes cuz I don't like to put my number up

Katrinarecycling basically uh so and it wasn't always just about sex either it was all like emotional like friendships I had to break up with all my boyfriends when I

Brian Atlasgot my new one wait so you'd have you would have roster like how many boyfriends would you have at the same concurrent boyfriends like okay men you were letting stick their penis not really

Katrinaactually it wasn't like that I mean like some of them were it was how do you say situation uh yeah like we were friends like we liked each other I

Katrinawasn't yeah I didn't like not always okay um some of them sure if they're having a bad day or something but like having a bad day yeah like I'm just you know I'm a server I'm here to serve

Katrinaeverybody exactly what they deserve like just I it's very charitable I'm serious like a lot of it's out of

Brian Atlaspity too you know poor guys like having their heart pity sex is is the best sex for them for them it's just the best

Katrinawhen she's kind of reluctantly I was just like so through that um I wouldn't say like um I wouldn't say that wait I got to open this up to the

Brian Atlaspanel who here has done pity done given I don't know pity sex absolutely my husband I was married for 21 years okay she knows

Becca Slidersometimes you can tell the guy I say zero never pity sex young yeah when you were young there was pity sex Lily oh yeah I mean the do you think the hundred

Lily Phillipsmen is kind of was that pity some of them I felt I did feel bad for you can tell that they haven't shagged in a while they haven't once shed shacked

KatrinaShack Powers um what's that definitely a couple virgins so a couple virgins okay any other pity sex enjoyers oh I didn't say I enjoyed it you I don't know no Enjoy like my whole

Brian Atlasfamily is watching this trying to be a little bit like a you've already too it's over with that handle um so uh let's see any kids ever married no kids

Daniellenever married all right uh what about you I'm been in a relationship for almost 2 years uh my longest relationship was 5 years and before my

Brian Atlas2-year relationship I was single for about three all right got it uh 5year relationship who broke up with who at a high school he broke up with me and then

Upgradewe mutually got back together and then we mutually broke up okay all right what about you um I'm going on my second year

Upgradewith my boyfriend I talked about him last time I was here mhm we are we we

Upgrade[Laughter] have well um you have what we have a bit

Brian Atlasof an AG age G okay you're 22 how old is he he's 41 41 okay so 19 19 years um longest relationship you've ever been in

Brian Atlasthis one this one two years okay any other relationships or no um no okay what does he uh actually no that's fine all right that's everybody's relationship status I'm

Brian Atlasgoing to read a chat here really quick oh whoops not supposed to I don't know why that came through like that but uh Jack Jackson Woods thank you man Lily I John and I

Brian Atlaswould really love it if you started the hobby please at the very least invite me to 1K peens per day in a day Ava please

Brian Atlastell black and vixon to show men eating out damn y'all crazy okay it's really aggressive uh yeah thank you uh Jackson Woods for that uh Lily do you want to

Brian Atlasrespond John please next time just sends the 100 tip my way just I disavow that all right thank you Jackson appreciate it man um all right we do need to get

Brian Atlasinto some of the pre-show notes so why don't we start with uh let's start with Aya uh let's see sorry one sec let me there's so much uh so Aya you were

Brian Atlashomeschooled from birth uh to the end of high school your parents were uh Evangelical fundamentalist Christians in Idaho is this like Westboro Baptist or

Ayano oh we thought they were cool but we were not Westborough but like kind of similar or yeah I would say if there's a spectrum from like normal Christian to Westborough we were like probably 70%

Brian Atlasclose to the West B okay uh you said calvinist calvinist okay you said after leaving home uh losing your faith in failing to attend college you turned to a series of shitty jobs involving uh

Brian Atlaslike a factory work waking up 400 a.m. you escaped from that into the warm wet Embrace of uh adult content which you used to fund dives into far away Realms

Brian Atlasboth physical and psychedelic you did a documentary or two you spent a year somehow getting addicted to LSD and you did become one of the top only fans creators until your attention span R out

Brian AtlasI believe that was the bio on your website yes um and you've done escorting uh we talked about the shower thing we won't we don't need to touch on that um and you've been involved in sex works

Brian Atlassince you said 2017 was it or uh since I was 20 since you were 20 okay gotcha and uh your dad was super conservative yes professionally so and uh I watched most

Brian Atlasof your interview with Lex Freedman is really interesting um you said you grew up in a very patriarchal uh I guess household yeah where and uh to quote you you said women were subordinate to men

Brian Atlasin regards to making decisions when married um and so I was curious on this this um I it sounds like you kind of disagree with this sort of sentiment uh I guess maybe a jumping off point and we

Brian Atlascan get into more broad General conversations related to that um does anybody kind of agree with her when it comes to like should women be subordinate to men when married ask Kanye

KatrinaWest did he just show us that's like being subordinate right what his naked wife on the Grammy red carpet she submitted to him to do that allegedly

Andrew Wilsonthat's her idea like she she really enjoys being naked from what I hear pre pre Kanye West there was not a lot that was stopping that woman from taking her clothes off for anybody who she could take them off for for a camera so just

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)pointing that out I think subordinate is an interesting word I do like I I do believe that men should be the leader in most situations and relationships but when I look at marriage specifically

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)it's um I hate the word partner cuz it's like so co-opted but you're supposed to be complimentary to each other right like we bring out the best and we demand the best out of each other so I think

Candace Horbach (Eva Lovia)women are really good soundboard for men and like the best relationships they take advice from each other but I do think that there needs to be a leader in the relationship and typically should be the man does anybody agree with that I

Brian Atlasagree with that or do you guys think I don't know what the s word means subordinate yeah um submissive basically underneath

Brian AtlasI guess you could say um but does anybody here just subordination would be an underling so like if you're if you're at a you got to work right you got a

Brian Atlasboss uh he's the boss you're the subordinate thank you so who agrees with uh Candice like should the man be the leader or do you guys view things more 5050 well my boyriend why we just go

Upgradearound the table okay we'll start with you what do you think so H I think it depends on the relationship I think that some women can lead well and some men can I remember last time I was saying

Upgradethat in my own relationship I like it to be traditional but I support women other women having the choice to be in a complementarian relationship or an

Upgradeegalitarian relationship and I think the live chat cuz I can't see it now but last time I was here on the live chat they kept saying that I wanted the good parts of

Upgradefeminism for myself and I was trying to promote the bad quote unquote bad parts to the rest of the female population but

Upgradethat's not the case it's just like how I have respect for people who are of a different religion than me then that doesn't mean that I'm contradicting myself I respect their right to make

Upgradethat choice to believe in what they do what's what's the nature of the your relationship um well I'm kind of like stay atome and he is the bread winner

Daniellegoing around the table what about you um I also think that when I think of a man I think of someone masculine that kind of takes care of you in a sense more traditional um I definitely am a little

Daniellemore outspoken so if we can banter back and forth and do things like that and have a say in what we're doing together

Danielleit's um better um but for the most part I I think that a man should lead and be more masculine and and and just take care of you sure what about

Katrinayou um it's a tricky question I think it's all circumstantial and every individual relationships are different and how do you want your relationship to be my relationship I

Katrinaam I'm here on this podcast and my boyfriend was not down so like but also like I paid for it all myself so unless like

Katrinayou know he was paying all the bills and stuff maybe like I would consider not coming on to the podcast but since I'm it's 50/50 then like I can kind of do

Carlywhat I want okay what about you Carly yeah um I think it really depends on the maturity levels of each partner um but personally I think that everybody

Carlykind of has to have their own independence within a relationship like just in terms of like everyone has their responsibility and like but it really

Brian Atlasdoes just depend on the relationship and like how each person is once once we go around I'm going to ask like a really specific question I think that will kind of get to the heart of the issue what

Becca Sliderabout you though yes I agree except again there's so many caveats because there's all this pressure on men to oh be the leader but men don't even know themselves so you're asking them to do something they don't know how to do and they haven't been taught to do so this is why we get into all of the mix of the

Becca Sliderproblems of what you see in a relationship of the woman doesn't want to follow the lead because the lead doesn't know how to lead and then she can't trust the lead and then it's a sh Show sure Lily I think it's really circumstantial but in my personal relationship I would like a 50/50 5050

Brian Atlaskly it looked like you wanted to jump in really quick or oh I was yeah I was just saying that like I like totally agree with that agree with it got it I think you already kind of talked about it uh a I guess your position on this topic if you want to elaborate a bit I just don't

Ayaknow what should means like should for what purpose what do you mean like like should you jump up and down and I'm like well you should you do that in order to achieve what goal like should there he doesn't mean should he doesn't like you

Andrew Wilsonknow like mean should is like an a he's talking in the comments so when you're talking about like should and you're doing the little like autistic hsbg thing uh I I know exactly what you're doing it's um it's a very low tier form

Andrew Wilsonof philosophy he's saying should in the comments he's not saying should as an odd statement of a moral imperative what is a slightly higher to your philosophy that you would recommend I try uh well I would try I would start

Andrew Wilsonwith understanding that you're not in a philosophical engagement at the moment unless you see everything purely as a philosophical engagement and that there are you would have to agree with me that you distinguish between words in the Commons and you distinguish between

Andrew WilsonWords which have philosophical terms so if somebody's engaging with you for instance a medical doctor or lawyer they're going to use legal terms or medical terms they're going to have a different meaning than the common terms of those words or the philosophical terms so when you say I don't know what

Ayashould means I actually don't believe you in this context I think you know exactly what it means by should uh this is the way that I talk all the time and sort of the question that I would ask anytime somebody asks me if somebody should do

Ayaanything yeah and I just explained to you that there's a distinction here uh I still don't understand what should means in this context so what it should mean in any context uh well it's usually

Andrew Wilsondependent on something right okay like should I go to the store like you're H so dependent on this context what do you think should means uh like my guess is probably there's some implicit like to be happy kind of thing but I don't know

Ayaif this is true well then we'll we'll go with that I would like to check though like is that what we mean cuz if so then I can answer yeah so can you even repeat what the question was but it's also different because sometimes people argue the

Ayapurpose of like some types of social structures is not to be happy but rather to have like a flourishing Society or something yeah like I'm fine I'm fine getting into semantics with you when it comes to should but can you repeat what

Andrew Wilsonthe question even was uh should men lead their wives or some variation on that yeah so he's asking from your worldview whatever that is believe you say that you're a rationalist so from whatever

Ayayour rational worldview is the should sense here is ought they or ought they not lead wives for what I can't get over the what purpose like for happiness uh I think probably a lot of people would be

Andrew Wilsonhappier if their husbands LED them this seems true okay I don't think I would be that much happier but I am not normal okay so then they should should

Andrew Wilsonthey or should they not ought they or ought they not for the purpose of Happiness uh you sound very confident in the things that you say but I'm not sure that makes you more right uh I it doesn't it doesn't make you uh more

Andrew Wilsonright because you don't understand the things I say either so I would just like an answer when you're talking about ought or ought not ought they or ought they not for the purpose of happiness I can't answer I mean maybe I'm very stupid and maybe you could explain this

Ayato me but uh you're saying UT is a common I use really small words yeah you we can use very small baby words for me uh because my small little brain has difficulty sometimes but when you're

Ayasaying uh if should ought they lead their wives um do you mean that there's like a general sort of way that the world is good if it is and bad if it isn't and you're referring to like a general sense of goodness no I'm not I'm

Andrew Wilsonnot inferring or making an implication for anything this is an asking from the world viiew of you who is not me whatever your worldview is who is not me from your world view that is not mine

Ayaought men lead their WI wies uh I I I'm trying to communicate my view and my view is something like I think that some people would be happier if their husbands LED them and some people would be sadder if their husbands LED them I'm

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