Rachel Wilson vs. HATER Feminists & Woke Liberal Girls?! E-GIRL Bankrupts Men?! | Dating Talk 288

Date: 2026-03-30

Duration: 9h 15m

Guests

Brian Atlas

RRachel Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_02Rachel Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_04Rina(guest)

SPEAKER_05Maya(guest)

SPEAKER_06Raven(guest)

SPEAKER_08Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_09Mariana(guest)

SPEAKER_10Olivia(guest)

SPEAKER_11Annie(guest)

SPEAKER_12Grace(guest)

SPEAKER_13Lexi (NY)(guest)

Key Moments

IntroAll guests + Rachel Wilson introduce themselves

Key MomentRaven reveals she organized gun control protests but cannot define semi-automatic firearm

ControversyRaven admits she hates men 99% of time, would snap fingers to make all men disappear

Key MomentRachel cites DV statistic: women aggressors in 70% of non-reciprocal cases

Key MomentRachel presents artificial womb hypothetical to test pro-choice positions

ControversyImmigration debate erupts. Maya yells "I'M TRYING MY BEST" in frustration.

Key MomentLexi confronts Raven: 'What can Brian legally do that I cannot?' - Raven cannot answer

QuoteMaya calls Trump 'racist homophobic fascist pedophile' but cannot define fascist

Topics Discussed

Guest Introductions

9 female guests + Rachel Wilson. Diverse panel ages 22-45.

Findom Career Deep-Dive

Raven's findom explored: wallet draining, SPH, pay pigs.

Domestic Violence Statistics

Rachel cites study: women aggressors in 70% of non-reciprocal DV cases.

Man vs Bear Debate

Panel debates bear vs man; analogies to racial profiling.

Abortion Debate

Extended debate on when life begins. Rachel walks Maya through logic tree.

Immigration and ICE

Heated debate. Maya supports ICE protests. Rachel calls her brainwashed.

Trans Dating and Disclosure

Whether attraction to trans women is gay. Consent and deception debate.

Show Wrap

Brian wraps after ~9 hours.

Transcript

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Brian AtlasWelcome to the Whatever Dating Talk Podcast where we try to make sense of the modern dating hellscape. I'm your host, Brian Atlas. We're going to just jump right in. Sorry for the delay there. Sorry we're a little about 7-8 minutes late. Uh go

Rinaahead and introduce yourself. First person. Hi everyone. My name is Rina. I am 25. I am from Phoenix, Arizona. And my occupation, I am a

Rinamechanic. I am a fabricator, um a business owner, anything and everything cars, mechanical, building things from scratch. Love it. Uh and I'm dabbling in business now. I'll be buying my first

Brian Atlaspre-existing business here soon. So. >> Oh, one request. Can I I totally forgot. Can I have you pop those sunglasses off? Not the Gucci shades. Yeah, if you can just [laughter] snap those. Uh just hand them behind you for me. Sorry about that. I totally slipped my

Rinamind. It's all right. Uh all right. So, and you're you're a mechanic? Yes. Oh, and education. Sorry, I missed that one. Uh I Yeah, you know, I graduated from a school called UTI. Um

Rinathat's a really unfortunate acronym. I'm like in a [laughter] room full of women that are here like, "Oh, you have a UTI?" No. I don't have a UTI. I I guess I permanently I have a a UTI because I

Rinahave a degree from there. But uh yeah, so I have an associate's of arts in mechanical for auto and diesel technology from the school called UTI. So, that would be me.

RinaAll right. Cool. And how long you've been doing uh work on cars? Uh I'd say a little over 5 and 1/2 years now. And then I'd say about 4 years professionally. So, I used to be a

Rinadealership technician and I was working on your cars when you bring them into the dealership. You know, I started off doing oil changes and then I just progressively just learned more and more and I got certified and uh realized, "Wow, they're like taking a

Mayalot of the money that I could be making." So, then I just kind of opened up my own thing and yeah, that's where I'm at right now. Okay. All right. What about you? Uh my name is Maya. I'm 22. I'm from California and I am a line cook

Mayaand receptionist and I have no college education. All right. Um And you said you're from where again? You California. Eureka, California.

Raven>> Eureka, got you. What about you? Hi, my name is Raven. I Was it on? Oh, okay. >> Is it what? I was wondering if the mic was on. Off? Uh yeah. No, it just sounded off it just sounded

Brian Atlasoff to me. I don't know why. It sounded off? Yeah. It's just my ears. I don't know. It sounded off compared to the other one. It doesn't matter. Wait, what? >> [laughter] >> What? Okay. All right. >> How's the mic? Okay. >> Don't worry about it. It's on. Don't

Ravenworry about it. You're good. You're good. >> is Raven. I um I don't reveal my age on social medias uh due to privacy reasons because of what I do. Um What can you explain that though?

Brian AtlasYes, I do findom. Okay. But because of what you do, so you don't reveal your age because you do findom. Yeah, just for privacy reasons. Okay. Um and

Raven>> but what what are the concerns? I just don't like for subs to know too much about my personal life.

RavenAnd that's pretty much it. Yeah. I mean, I'm over 18, so. >> [laughter] >> Are you younger than 30? Yes. Okay.

RavenSometimes it's hard to tell, you know, so. Oh, yeah. Yeah. What about you? My name is >> you finish your intro? No, I did not. >> Okay, continue, please. >> Um so, I did uh some college, but then my college shut down suddenly. So.

Grace>> Okay. And where are you from? Los Angeles. Okay. All right. Uh what were you studying when you were in college? >> Musical theater. All right. What about you? My name's Grace. I am originally from Northern

GraceCalifornia, currently living in San Diego County. Um 44 and I have a cosmetology license and I've tried to get a degree a few times, but you know,

Marianamy ex-husband was in the Marine Corps, so following him around kind of dampened that. Okay. What about you? My name is Mariana. I am 25 years old. I'm from Oregon and I'm a certified

Marianastoner. Uh I have no college education, got my GED, so I'm just learning about cannabis right now. Next.

AnnieI'm Annie. I'm 35. I'm from Pennsylvania near the Philadelphia area. Um I'm a full-time social media influencer, content creator and um I have a background in real estate, photography

Brian Atlasand graphic design. You said 35? And 25 for you? Mhm. Uh okay, you're a what professional smoke smoker or what was it? Certified stoner. I made it I made it a job.

Mariana>> switch the camera angles, please. Okay? Yeah. Uh okay. I create content um regarding it and want to help people understand what it is cuz I feel like there's a lot of stigma around it.

SPEAKER_07O- okay. All right. Um how long have you been smoking? Um 7 years. Are you currently rocked right now? No. >> [laughter] >> No.

OliviaAll right. What about you? Um my name is Olivia. I'm 33. I majored in dance at Dean College and I'm re-enrolled in theology and minoring in

Oliviapre-law with Liberty University and I am a faith-based anti-feminist conservative content creator. And I am from Michigan. I'm sorry. Uh could you repeat your age

Lexi (NY)for me? I might have missed it. >> 33. 33. Okay, thank you. All right. What about you? Hi, my name's Lexi. I'm 30 from New

Lexi (NY)York. I am a full-time live streamer. I wouldn't say content creator. I kind of you see my Instagram, it's very empty. Um I am only live streaming right now

Lexi (NY)currently on this app called Favorited, but I do have plans of getting my real estate license um and a few other fun projects and I

Lexi (NY)originally went to school at Iona for criminal justice and psychology. And then, sorry. Um I did graduate school at John Jay for my master's in forensic mental health counseling.

Lexi (NY)Got you. When did you uh get your master's degree? So, I technically didn't finish it. Um >> Okay, you went there for your master's. Okay.

Lexi (NY)I needed to take maybe two or three classes including an externship and kind of realized a few years into working in the

Lexi (NY)psychology field that it was a lot more than I could emotionally handle, so I chose to take a step back and focus on being an

Brian Atlasentrepreneur. Okay. Uh so, you were last in school when?

Rachel WilsonThree and a half years ago, four. Okay, got it. Uh Rachel, what about you? I'm Rachel Wilson. Uh I'm 45 years old.

Rachel WilsonI am the wife of the handsomest debater on the internet. I'm also a mom of five, homeschooling advocate, debater myself and best-selling author. Uh I have a PhD from

Rachel Wilsondebateuniversity.com. Go there. Get the verbal judo one and two. And um I think that's it. Did you say where you're from? I'm

Brian Atlasoriginally from Michigan, now living in Texas. All right. Welcome everybody. Uh we're going to go around the table once more. Uh what's everyone's uh relationship status? If you're single, how long have

Rinayou been single? And what's the longest relationship you've ever been in? Okay. Well, I am currently taken, very happily taken. Uh over 2 years now with

Mayamy best friend and he is my longest relationship. So. All right. Uh for how long? For over 2 years now. 2 years. Okay, got it. I'm single. I've

Mayanever been in a relationship and I don't plan to. I've had like situationships and stuff like that, but >> So, you said you don't plan to be in a relationship? >> No, I have no desire to like ever get married or be in a long-term commitment

Brian Atlaswith someone else. Okay. Uh what's the longest period of time you have seen somebody? Like 8 months, 6 months, 6-8 months. >> Was it uh

Mayaexclusive, monogamous? Uh it was exclusive for me for me, but not for him. He was seeing other people. All right. So, longest situation, 8 months, but never like official, never boyfriend-girlfriend.

Brian Atlas>> No. Did you say I love you to him? No. Have you said I love you to anybody? Other than like family and friends. >> Yeah, just like in a romantic sense. Okay. Um so, why is it that you don't

Mayawant to ever be in a relationship? >> I just see all my friends' relationships and everyone around me and I feel like a lot of the times if people aren't mature enough to have an actual like good

Mayarelationship and it turns into almost like a controlled dynamic of like, "I don't want you hanging out with these people. Like, where are you right now?" And like a texting all day long and I am just independent and I don't ever want

Mayato have to be attached to someone like that and I don't like being held accountable for my actions and that's kind of [laughter] what a relationship is.

Brian Atlas>> [laughter] >> Can you Can you repeat that part? The last part >> [laughter] >> I don't like being accountable for my actions and being in a relationship. >> actions that you've taken that you don't

Mayawant to be accountable for? Well, I'm just thinking like I go out like almost every weekend or multiple times a week and like I I just do stuff a lot of people in a relationship would I feel like feel like I don't want you doing that anymore.

MayaLike why are you Like what? I don't I don't know. Mostly just going out and I don't like >> Like partying and >> Yeah, partying, drugs. >> Drugs? Not drugs, but partying, drinking, like going to clubs, stuff like that. And a lot I feel like a lot of times men

Mayaespecially will get jealous if their girlfriend likes to go to clubs and stuff cuz they feel like they're only going there to to hang out with other guys or get hit on by other guys and I feel like it would take a very specific person to not get jealous. Mhm.

Brian AtlasSo in the calculus of what matters most to you it the trade-off of even if you did have to sacrifice those things, it wouldn't be worthy enough of sacrificing

Brian Atlasyour desires to do those things than to have like a long-term loving committed relationship. >> craved that. Like of course I crave like love and affection, but I feel like I

Mayaget enough like love from my friends. I've never wanted like a deeper connection on a romantic level. Okay. What's your orientation? I'm straight. Okay. Have you ever dated women? I've never dated a woman.

Maya>> Okay. So no desire >> No desire to date a woman, never dated a woman. I don't find women attractive. Do you want kids? No, absolutely not. >> [laughter] >> Absolutely not. Well, you you're still young. You're 22. So

Maya>> I grew up like what I was I was homeschooled through high school and I worked at a horse farm and I dealt with a lot of kids and a lot of kids that had special needs, a lot of really little kids and it's just a lot. Like kids are

Mayaa lot and they're a lifelong commitment. It's not just raising them till they're 18. You have to raise them until you die and that's just like not something I want to do. I have a dog that I love so

Mayadearly and that is my child. Do you suspect your kids are going to be

MayaI shouldn't say [ __ ] but >> [laughter] >> Well, not just a concern, but you have like a Is there a Well, no, no, no. Something in the family like I well, I just I look at like my whole entire

Mayafamily like everyone I My grandpa was an alcoholic, my mom's an alcoholic. I I'm not an alcoholic, but I do like to go out and I like to drink and stuff. So I've just looking at like especially

Mayawhere my brother is now too and stuff like that and I I also just don't like the way our world is going like politically, climatically, all that stuff and I would never want to bring a child into this. Yeah, um She's like Rachel, do

Rachel Wilson>> [laughter] >> She's She's said a few different things there. Do you want anything there that you have any thoughts on, Rachel? Uh yeah, I mean this If you think things are bad now, then you don't know history. We are living in It seems like

Rachel Wilsonthings are really bad and it's not that we don't have problems, but like historically, your ancestors went through much worse things for you to end up being here and after all of the Think of what it takes for you to ever be

Rachel Wilsonborn, how many people have to survive and procreate over the generations for you to be born and you're just like, "Nah, bro. I just want to party." Like screw that. Gene Gene Genetics are

Rachel Wilsonending here. Sorry, ancestors. Like I'm now because I want to go to the bar. Don't you think that's extremely selfish and short-sighted and like really, really lazy and taking the easy way out?

Maya>> even that though. It's more so like kids are like I wouldn't even be able to like hang out with friends or something. Like having a baby is like a full-time commitment. Like you when they're first born unless you have the money to have a nanny or something like that, you have

Mayato be there all of the time and going back to work and stuff and considering I would never want to have a partner, I wouldn't have anyone else to rely on and assuming I like to get married. This is a deep question to get into this early

Mayain the podcast, but like what's the point of life to I think having fun and making people laugh and that you already have in your life. I think that I think that's my goal. >> and making people laugh. >> [laughter] >> Good job. Good job. Yeah.

MayaExcellent. Okay. >> Make us laugh right now. Um >> Say something funny. Ooh, I don't have any jokes. I I They concoct in my mind and then they go away. I'll think of something and if I have something funny to say, I will I will make sure it comes

Brian Atlasout. Although I I wonder if that question is unfair because if a woman sat here and said, "Well, my life goal is to get pregnant." Mhm. Should I ask her if she'd like to get pregnant [laughter] right now? I don't know. Maybe. Let me

Mayarethink that, I guess, but She said the purpose of life is procreation. [laughter] You could be like, "Hey." I just think the purpose of life is to like enjoy your best life and live like in the day, in the moment, in the present.

Maya>> No meaning. I don't think I don't think there's any god. I don't think that there's any full like meaning to life. I think humans' entire like goal, they're always just searching for a purpose, searching for like some greater meaning or some reason to be alive, but in

Mayareality I don't think there really is one. I think just our own mor- mortalities scares us so much that we are trying to find a reason to be alive and a reason to be doing what we're doing and I think that's also like It's why a lot of people commit suicide and

Rachel Wilsonstuff like that is cuz they feel like they don't have a reason to their life. Well, all I can say is you're a little sponge and you've soaked up the anti-natalist nihilistic propaganda like crazy and it

Mayaseems cool at 22. You will not think it's cool at 42. It It won't be cool at 42. >> even been to a church or opened a Bible, never read a Bible, anything like that. Like I was raised very like extremely

Rachel Wilsonatheist and I Didn't you just say though that like your mom and your grandpa and the people that raised you are like kind of toxic, kind of not doing great? So why would you want to do what they're doing? Because Well, my grandpa's dead

Mayaand I feel like I I also I disassociated from my mom's half of the family like relatively young in life and I feel like I've just since then been going on and trying to like do my own thing and be my

Mayaown independent person and even when I was like living at home and stuff, my like I was basically raising myself, took the bus everywhere to work. I had my own online school that I was doing. I wasn't like actually homeschooled. It

Rachel Wilsonwas like an online program thing. So So it sounds It sounds like a lot of people failed you really badly. I can relate. Same. I had a very similar childhood. And you're trying to avoid pain. That's

Ravenwhat it sounds like to me, but we can We can see as we go forward and talk. Sure. Relationship status? First of all, I agree. I agree with a lot of what she just said. Who? >> Um What's your name? Maya. Maya. Okay.

RavenCuz she and she Oh. So Oh. It was a bit vague. No, no hard feelings at all, but Maya, I agree with a lot of what you just said. Um

RavenSo you don't want kids? No. No, it's not that I don't want kids. I just agree with the point that I feel like in my experience, I feel like we make

Ravenourselves as humans kind of miserable by just searching for a meaning in life and I feel like time just passes us by. Just

Ravenwe're just looking for a meaning every day and sometimes it's good to just stop in the now and just breathe and enjoy the moments. Aw. >> [laughter]

Raven>> What? I also think it's super respectable. Like I your independence and everything. >> [laughter] >> And I think you're really smart, but

Brian Atlasyeah. Oh. All right. Okay. I Can I have you scoot actually scoot your microphone back like 2 inches that way? Relationship status for you? I am single.

Brian AtlasI've been single for about a year. All right. What's the longest relationship you've ever been in? 3 years. 3 years. Okay. Um Orientation?

RavenI exclusively date women. Exclusively date women. Yes. So are you bisexual or lesbian? I'm mostly I'm I'm lesbian. I just don't

Brian Atlaslabel it, but yeah. >> You have dated men though. In the past, yes. >> Previously. Yes. When's the last time you dated a man?

RavenIn high school. Um When did you graduate from high school? You're trying to get me. >> [laughter] >> You're trying to I see what you're trying to do, Brian. You're trying to Yeah, you're trying to get me. Don't

Brian Atlasknow what you're talking about. Um Let's say about 4 years ago I Mhm. Yeah, about All right. She's 23. We figured it out. Okay. Um

Brian AtlasSo okay. Uh The last time you dated a man was 4 years ago. Uh and you've been single for 1 year. Any women in the picture currently? No.

Brian AtlasOkay. Uh The relationship that ended a year ago was with a woman. Yes, it was. >> Okay. Would you date a trans woman? Mhm.

RavenI would. Um it just depends on the woman. It just depends. Um I would like It depends on how far along in the in

Brian Atlasthe transition she is as well. Okay. So bottom surgery. Yes. Okay. What about no bottom surgery, but fully uh transitioned otherwise? Probably not to date. That's not my

Brian Atlaspreference. >> Okay. Would you date a trans man? No. Before surgery, so there's still a vagina. No. Interesting. Okay. Uh okay. >> [laughter] >> And trying to think.

GraceUh single for 1 year. Uh all right. What about you? I My last relationship ended September last year. Um, it was with my daughter's dad. We

Gracewere engaged. Um, we were together since 2020. And then before that, my longest

Gracerelationship was with my ex-husband. Um, that was from 2004 to 2018. So, 14 14 years? >> Yeah, almost 15 years. >> And then you've been single for about

Brian Atlasuh 6 >> 6 months. Okay. And you've been married one time? >> Yes. And then you were you were engaged >> engaged >> to one other person. The most recent guy. >> Yeah. Uh, so you're single. Yes. Okay. Uh, you have how many kids?

Brian Atlas>> Two. Two. Uh, you have one from Age? My son is 19 from my ex-husband and then my daughter is going to be four in May.

GraceGoing to be four. Okay. >> Yeah. Uh, and you said you're you're 44. Yes. >> Okay, so you got pregnant at 39, 40? Um, yeah. I um, turned 25 when I was pregnant with my son. I was 39 turned 40

Gracewhen I was pregnant with my daughter. >> Got you. So And children are like the greatest blessing. Like Okay. >> I I've learned so much from them and they've brought so much joy into my life. Like your dog. Yeah.

Grace>> Like They don't know what they are. >> can look back at you and like, "I love you, Mommy." Or You don't know my dog. My dog My dog's like My dog looks at me like he's my child. >> cat. People think they Sitting is like

Rachel Wilsonhaving your own child. They are nothing alike. People will People will take care of someone else's kids and be like, "Oh my god, this is awful and it's so much work." There's something magical that happens when it's your child that is

Rachel Wilsonjust not even comparable to babysitting or working with other people's kids. I've had friends that I hate everybody's kids, but I love mine. So I think some people choose pets as children because it allows them to not

Mayabe held accountable for that being, unlike a child. See, I That's I think that's exactly what I'm doing. I I'm worried that if I raised a kid like just thinking of the way I kind of like grew up, I wouldn't want to be like

Rachel Wilsonhypocritical about certain things and I don't know. I just don't I don't trust myself to raise a kid. Yeah, but what's cool about it? So like, yeah, my mom was a raging alcoholic, pretty pretty awful.

Rachel WilsonUh, had a really bad childhood. It was really really rough. And uh, my family life was a disaster and what I did was grew up, had my own kids, and created

Rachel Wilsonthat intact healthy happy family that I never had. Yeah, and really like leaned into motherhood and gave it everything I had and it's To There's no way to put it into words

Rachel Wilsonfor other people to understand if they're stuck in that mindset of like "Baby bad. I don't want to fail." You sound scared to fail. You sound scared to fail and like you're avoiding, you know, risking pain.

MayaOh my god. After giving birth, I mean like your [ __ ] coochie and like your your stomach. Like all the like that just sounds terrible. Everything is intact. It's made to do

Rachel Wilsonthat. I've done it five times. There's nothing Nothing Nothing catastrophically blew open and didn't come back to like that's That's not the outcome for everyone though. It's not always the case. It's fine. Most of the time it's fine.

Grace>> And you don't even remember the pain. And you're 22. Like I wouldn't make that a final decision. Like, you know, 5 years, 10 years from now. You know? So, okay, you've been single for 6 months.

GraceHave you had a rebound? No. No, like no No dating Latter-Day Saints. Um I've gone on some dates. I recently LDS? >> Yes.

GraceUh, have you always been LDS? I was baptized when I was 20. 20. Okay. Where do you live? San Diego. Oh, not Utah? Okay. >> No.

GraceI've never lived in Utah. I have lots of friends there, but I actually prefer Latter-Day Saint culture outside of Utah or Utah >> Are your parents LDS or

Brian Atlas>> I'm the only one in my family. I'm sorry. What What is LDS? Is that like Mormon? >> Mormon. Okay. That's why you said Utah. Yeah, more Mormon, [laughter] Mormonism. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And uh, so okay, you

Brian AtlasQuestion for your your marriage. It was 14 years the marriage. And had you been dating for longer? Um, he was in the military and we dated long distance and yeah. So, you

Graceguys got married pretty quick. >> pretty young. Yeah. I think we got married almost exactly a year after we met. Okay. >> But he was in Kuwait the majority of that time. Got you. Um,

Gracewho initiated the divorce? Me. Was there a particular reason or >> I don't know that I ever felt like I was a huge priority. Um Priority? >> It was a dysfunctional relationship. I

GraceYou know, I would say I have a decent relationship with him now. Um >> You guys co-parent? Well, my son's 19, so I guess prior to him being an adult. Yeah. I mean

Graceif I think push comes to shove, I needed something, I could call him. Um, I'm pretty close friends with his wife. So What And um, you said it was a

Gracedysfunctional relationship or I might have You know, I mean I think he's a good person. I think I'm a good person. I just I've used the analogy that's like we're oil and water.

Brian AtlasWe shake it up, we act like we mesh well, but then we repel each other. Was there anything uh, in the divorce? Was there anything cited specifically, you know, irreconcilable >> state, so irreconcilable

Brian Atlas>> Irreconcilable differences. Okay. >> Yeah. Um, and uh uh Did he pay you alimony? Yes. Does he still pay you alimony? Um, I get a

Gracepercentage of his military retirement cuz we were married over 10 years. >> Wait, so um Um, our son graduated high school in June, so alimony and child support stopped at that point. Okay. Um,

Brian Atlasand uh He was Was he uh, enlisted or was he an officer in the military? >> Enlisted. He was enlisted. >> Yeah. And what did he go on to do after the military as career like >> Basically the same thing. He was military police. So, he

Grace>> Okay. He stayed in He stayed in the military for a long time. Yeah. Uh, he retired at 15 years. They did a early retirement cuz they were trying to >> Oh, well. >> lower the numbers. And so, wait, you you married in Was it 2004?

Brian Atlas2004 and you stayed with him until it was 26 >> 2018 was when our divorce was finalized. We filed in 2015. >> And you were with him so 14 years, right? And so >> So

Grace>> Wait, it It was finalized in 2018? Yeah. Okay. So, you've been He retired in 2015. So, they figure I get 50% of the 11 and 1/2 years basically cuz

Brian Atlasthat's when we were together that he was earning the retirement. >> So, will he be paying you alimony for the duration of his life? The retirement, yes. Wow. Um, and

Brian Atlasthe child >> ton of money, but you know, it helps. Okay. And uh, he was also paying you child support, too. Now, what I'm assuming It sounds like this arrangement was dictated by the court. Yeah, the

Gracecourt did. >> like informally Um, I mean we worked with the mediator through a military uh, base legal mediator helped us come up with numbers. >> Were Were you working at all at the time

Graceor >> Um, so when we lived in Okinawa, Japan, I had a salon in our house. Um My son was kindergarten when we moved there, so I was able to do hair while he

Gracewas at school. When did you move back to the USA? Um, so I was in Japan the end of 2012 through May of 2015. And >> And then he retired in August of 2015.

Brian AtlasI see. Okay. >> Yeah. Okay. Uh, and then Do Question for you. Do you think it's fair that he has a uh, essentially you guys were together

Brian Atlasfor 15 years, which to be fair is a long time. Uh, and my understanding of the law, once you've been married beyond 10 years, that's when some of these long or sometimes lifelong uh

Brian Atlasalimony um responsibilities start to kick in. Do you think it's fair though that given that you guys um have been separated for such a long period of time, 8 years at this point

Gracethat he should still be paying you money? Um, well, I mean the retirement I I basically was an extension of him. Um, you know, following him everywhere

Brian Atlasthe Marine Corps sent us. So, the Marine Corps moves him around every 3 years. So, it's often >> in the Marine Corps. What What was his job in the military >> Military police. Oh, he's military police.

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. So, he would enforce military laws among the >> Basically like a cop on the Well, you can't call a Marine a soldier, but

Gracethey're Marines. Soldiers army. Aren't Marines soldiers? Nope. Well They will Will they get offended by that? I've never heard that. >> so. Yeah.

Brian AtlasUm, so Air Force is airman, Navy seaman, Marines a Marine. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Well, they're all They're all soldiers. Nope. >> If you're in the Navy, you're a soldier.

GraceNope. If you're in the Army, you're a soldier. Am I I don't know. Maybe tell me in the chat. >> population probably agrees with that, but anybody in the military community

Gracewould say otherwise. I have a lot of I have a question, too. Was he also LDS? He was raised in the church. He was not active when we got married. Um, he started going to church

Graceright before we moved to Japan. That was actually part of why I moved there because I was >> I thought they were pretty against divorces. That's the reason I was wondering. Um, I mean is that a good reason? Mhm. Just like, "I'm not feeling

Graceit anymore. Usually I thought they weren't into that. I mean, we get to do what we want to do. I mean, I I'm not going to let my religion dictate my life. >> Well, you should. No, I know.

GraceI know. I know. But like, [laughter] okay, so we have for example, what's called the word of wisdom, which part of is no alcohol. So, I've had a lot of people, "Why do you let your church tell you you can't drink?" I'm like, "Well,

Gracethey say, 'Hey, this is a good health standard. There's lots of problems that come with excessive drinking and whatnot.' You know, you could be an alcoholic. But then I choose if I want to follow it or not. >> does the church see marriage as a

Gracereligious sacrament or just like a contract with a state? Your church. I mean, we have these gorgeous temples all over the world. And when you get married in a temple, it's called being sealed

Rachel Wilsontogether. So, you're you are sealed together for time and all eternity. Well, what's the point of that if you can just break it because you're just like, "I don't feel very important." Um well,

Graceit it was more than that, but that was I mean, Yeah. Um What was there like abuse going on or was there infidelity or anything like that?

Brian Atlas>> like physical abuse. I would say he was emotionally abusive to me. Emotionally abusive. Emotionally abusive. Uh just to we'll dive more into that, but a few clarifying questions. So, um you said

Brian Atlasyou when I asked you if you think it's fair that despite you guys being separated for eight years at this point, you now your child is now an adult. So, his child support, just to be clear.

Brian Atlas>> Child support and alimony stopped in in June last year when my son graduated. >> in California, sometimes in California, you have to pay sometimes even beyond uh yeah, like through college. So, they

Brian Atlascould be 21, 22. Yeah. Um so, it's just the military retirement. I see. Um But I asked if you if you thought it was fair that he was still paying you money all this time. And you said, "Well, I

Brian Atlaswas I was I followed him wherever he went. >> Now, you said he was a military police officer. Uh I I would imagine that a military police officer would encounter the same

Brian Atlassort of things that like a civilian police officer deals with, whether it's, you know, um enforcing the laws of the military. And so, sometimes in you know, they probably

Brian Atlasdo traffic stops on base or they'll do they'll be handling issues with the the Marines. And uh So, I guess

Gracewhat specifically were you doing? What what were your law enforcement obligations? I didn't mean it like that. I was I was saying that I was an

Graceextension of him basically because where the Marine Corps sent him, You >> I I went also. >> Couldn't a I mean, a

Brian Atlasa corporate job could send a a husband to North Dakota or Alaska and uh So, Yeah. Okay.

Brian AtlasI >> Could you voluntarily be like, "Look, um it's been you paid your child support, you paid the alimony. You know, maybe I'll let you off the

Brian Atlashook." Could you voluntarily do that? Potentially, I guess. So, what would it take for us to convince you here that [laughter] cuz your obligations to him have completely ceased?

Brian AtlasLike you don't still sleep with him, right? >> Right. You haven't slept with him, I'm assuming, since perhaps even well before the divorce. Right? So, the

Brian Atlasyour obligations to him have completely ceased, but despite you you were engaged to this other guy and you've maybe dated other men in since that time. He still has this ongoing obligation to you,

Brian Atlaswhich I find I mean, look, the law it's not entirely your fault in so far as the the the law, the court system the

Gracehas this set up to and enables it. But maybe you could voluntarily say, "You know what? Forget it." Would you do that? >> the majority of our relationship, I was a stay-at-home mom.

GraceI had some retail jobs before our son was born. When he was just over two, I went to cosmetology school. Um and then I've worked [clears throat]

Gracelike in home um when he got to kindergarten age. Um but um where was I going with that? >> [laughter] >> What you were you were saying that uh

GraceSo, we have a son together. Um After the divorce, the divorce decree said that I could live in San Diego County, Orange County, and Riverside

GraceCounty. But really I was only allowed to be in Oceanside because that's where our son was in school. So, having you know, basically been a stay-at-home mom and then being in one of the most

Graceexpensive places in the United States, like it's been a struggle. Okay. Uh sure. >> So, yeah, I I could have chosen to move someplace less expensive, but I would

Brian Atlashave given up custody. Well, I mean, just to be clear, so I'm going to go ahead and grant that the alimony that you received in addition to the child support was let's just go ahead and although I might have

Brian Atlassome contentions with it, let's grant that up until your son became an adult, it was warranted and justified. But now that your son is 19, you said? Um

Brian Atlasyou could move some Where's your Is your son in school in San Diego? Um he was going to go to UTI. Um [laughter] so, I yeah. Okay. Um but then He said he went to UTI.

GraceHe he did want to go to school to be a mechanic, but he >> Well, so where is he now? He's just working. He's in San Diego. >> Yeah. Okay. Do you Does he live with you still? Or No, he's mostly living with his dad

Brian Atlasright now. >> Oh, he lives with his dad. Okay. Uh well, so but I understand the justifications of like, "Okay, look, you uh took time away from work so that you could stay at home, take care of the

Gracekid." But now that there's not a kid involved and >> This is basically the same thing as like a 401k. Like would you be asking somebody who is is splitting a 401k

Brian Atlaspost-divorce? He worked for it. Yeah. But he receives a military Was it a pension? >> Pension, retirement? >> Yeah. Um I mean, it's essentially the

Brian Atlassame thing. Um Uh well, And you know, I was taking care of him all those years that we >> Wasn't he taking care of you? You

Brian Atlasfood, utilities, the rent. He paid everything, right? That seems like you >> For well, for a 15-year period of time when you guys were living together, it you were staying at home. It sounds like

Gracehe was the primary sole breadwinner, even. I mean, he was at certain points. While we were in Japan, I definitely I was pretty successful while we were there. Okay. Sure. Uh you did your part

Gracein moments. Couldn't you do that now? Couldn't you work now? >> Unfortunately, I have um I get pretty bad sciatica. So, doing hair full-time unfortunately causes a lot of pain. What

Rinaabout like a desk job or something like that? Like can't you find another career path? I'm working on it. I'm sorry I can't I keep asking you to define things, but can you define the sciatica? I don't know what that is. Oh,

Graceit's the sciatic nerve goes through back down to your legs. And if it gets pinched, it causes like I would rather be in labor than have sciatica. Sciatica is way worse. I mean, you could

Rinadefinitely work from home a lot like on the computer. You could lay on the I like my boyfriend literally he works from his computer Oh, sorry. My boyfriend works from his computer from home a lot and he can lay on the couch. He can do whatever he wants. I mean, there's definitely jobs out there

Rinafor sure, especially in this day and age that, you know, you could most definitely do that would not, you know, compromise your health with that condition, though. Was your husband active duty? Like was

GraceSo, he was in combat ever? >> No. He he was deployed to Kuwait prior to us getting married, but that was the only deployment. >> discharge his weapon in the line of service?

OliviaI mean, aside from training exercises, I don't believe so. Okay. I'm sorry. The whole like I did my part sometimes by having some retail jobs and that equates to equal value of him putting his life

Brian Atlason the front line to defend your freedom. That's going to be a no for me, but Same. Same. Well, it sounds To be [laughter] fair, it sounds like he wasn't a combat soldier. He was a military police, which

Brian Atlas>> Yeah, so he was police officer on the base, basically. Right. Which I mean, does carry risks. Still carries risks. It's stressful. I mean, being a law

Brian Atlasenforcement officer is a stressful job. You're often dealing with complicated people, let's say. Um The stories. Yeah. >> I I'm sure. I'm sure. Even though they were soldiers, I'm sure that or Marines,

Brian Atlasexcuse me. Um Can can different branches I I assume he would only be policing Marines because there is interfacing sometimes between

Gracedifferent I mean, it depends where you are. Usually So, when we were in Okinawa, they had every branch of the military, but they all had their own bases. So, the only There's overlap between like

Brian Atlason Marine Corps base, there will be a naval hospital, so the Navy does all the medical on Marine Corps base. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm just thinking like cuz sometimes the military police, like let's say there's a a cadet or recruit

Brian Atlasor whatever or Marine who's like out drunk in the the bar area of Okinawa or whatever. Like I'm assuming like and he's acting a fool, like a military police officer is

Brian Atlasgoing to come and if there's also like an airman who's in the group and they're all I don't know if there would be some sort of authority over the

Brian Atlaseven though it's a different branch if like the airman's part in in cahoots with the Marine who's acting ridic- I don't know. That doesn't matter, but No, I get what you're

Brian Atlassaying. I do believe in something like that they would try to call his command. But I don't know, maybe we could maybe you could just let them off the hook. What do you think? Today, no. Maybe sometime down the line. Down down the line, yes. >> Does does he is he

Brian AtlasOr wait. >> think that he's bothered by it? Is he bothered by I'd be bothered by it. But I'd be [ __ ] pissed. >> [laughter] >> Think of it like this. Think of I I know maybe some of you haven't been married

Brian Atlasin these situations, but think about some ex-boyfriend from years ago and like every month you got paying him 300 bucks, 500 bucks. You'd be like, "What the fuck?" The kid's gone. I know somebody that's in this situation who's not divorced and the person won't sign

Anniethe paperwork. And they were military and she's literally holding on to it just for a paycheck. That's horrible. And he has

AnniePTSD from being a like a combat veteran. He served in Iraq and yeah, she literally sees him as a paycheck. But that's just [ __ ] My better question

Marianais are you are you intentionally doing this because you're vengeful or is it just because it is how it is and you haven't ever thought about the fact of how he could be

Marianaum responding to that emotionally. Like if he's never complained about it to you to your face and you don't have the vengeful intention, why break something that wasn't broken?

MarianaLike if it's working for you, if it's working for you and you know he's not mad about it or he's at least not vocal about it, why break something that's not broken? I mean, it's legally what was

Brian AtlasThat's what I'm saying. >> had a mediator though, so it wasn't amicable. Hold on. Legally you used to be able to own slaves. >> [laughter] >> Not today though, I would >> Legally you could own slaves. >> Legally you used to be able to hit

Brian Atlaswomen. Was it correct? Yeah.

Brian AtlasLike we could I mean, perhaps in your position you might not agree with this, but there there is some social current that does seem to point towards

Brian Atlascertain degrees of alimony and child support as being a bit unfair towards the payer. Um like should you be bound for Imagine say

Brian Atlasyou were married from the age of 20 to 31 and then this woman at 31 she divorces him, she I'm not saying you did this. Let's say she cheats on him,

Brian Atlaslegally she's still owed alimony. I mean, you could even remove the cheating component to it. But that is a scenario where the woman can be at fault for the cause of the

Brian Atlasdivorce and still receive the benefits, but um should this man say 30 years later uh still have to pay her alimony?

Brian AtlasI think not. I don't think Okay, you married at 20, you divorced at 31. It was past 10 years. Sometimes I think it depends on the state that the the laws vary, but I think past 10 years you can

Graceget into permanent life alimony territory and >> Which we didn't. We agreed to just have the alimony go until our son graduated high school, so >> Well, the child support. No, alimony. Alimony and child support.

Brian Atlas>> alimony anymore or you're just getting the retirement the retirement? Well, that's alum- that's Well, I could um Well, >> It's an asset. Regard- I I would suppose

Brian Atlasregardless of how we categorize it, he owes you a financial burden. Like he has to pay you money beyond the course uh like for forever. Yeah.

GraceI don't know. Like if it was Before we moved to Japan, we were contemplating getting divorced at that point and that was when he decided to start going back to church and I said, "You know, if

Graceif we do if I do go to Japan with you and we do try, it'll put us over the 10-year mark and it'll change things financially afterwards." Oh, you had that conversation. >> conversation with him. And the marriage

Brian Atlaswas in California? Yes. And the divorce proceedings I'm assuming in California. >> Yeah. California uh life alimony cut off

Brian Atlasdate, I don't know if that's going to prompt it. There's no automatic lifetime alimony. For marriages of 10 years or more, the court the court often keeps

Brian Atlasjur- jurisdiction indefinitely, allowing support to continue until death of either party. So if 10 years, that in California at least, where where you had your marriage and divorce, it is 10

Marianayears, so >> [gasps] >> Damn, that's uh yeah. That sucks. That I don't know. I don't know. That's the risk of marriage. Everybody

Rachel Wilsonhas to know that going into it. You could lose everything. >> I think everybody at this table probably besides me and maybe a couple of Well, a few of you. But that side of the table is going to say men and women are equal.

MarianaSo why is it only the men that have to pay? But why do you assume that this side of the table You don't think that men and women are equal? I don't believe that men and women are

Marianaequal in the physical and emotional sense. By scientific biology, we're not. Um but I don't believe that because of biology we should be treated equally. >> Legally equal though. You believe in

Marianalegal and political equality between men and women I would assume. It's pretty rare that I come across women who don't. >> Like like I believe that should happen or do I believe that's what's in society right now? >> it ought to be. I believe that is how it

Marianaought to be. >> Okay, then if you believe that's how it ought to be, why is it only the man that has to pay the alimony? What? Or the spousal support. That's country law. That's believed by I understand what is. Why

Marianaought that be the case? Why aren't you saying, "Look, if we have equality, there should be equality in divorce, too." I believe that is true and that's why it's like that's the risk. If you're marrying with the laws that way, that's

Marianathe risk you take. Unless you want to deal with that, then don't get married. So men don't get married. >> [laughter] >> That that is like the simple point and no one wants to have that conversation

Marianacuz like that's wild. Why not get married, but also divorce is a pain, you know, and I feel like a lot of people don't think through their decision of marriage because I mean, we're having this conversation right now. Like if

Rachel Wilsonit's fair or not, but that was the law. >> think the solution is to change the laws. I don't think that marriage should even be through the laws and the courts. It should be governed by the church, but we can get into that later if Well, so

Gracelike hypothetically in my situation, say I had been the active duty military member and he had been a stay-at-home parent. After getting divorced, I absolutely would be paying him the money. So it's

Gracenot the the because he was the man, it was because he was the breadwinner and that was an asset that was earned during the marriage. >> so she she is right in so far as

Brian Atlasit's not the the laws are not specifically gendered that says men it's it's but do men are men typically >> women women have the children and so

Rachel Wilsoneverything's set up that, you know, if you just decide I'm not happy, you just leave and he owes you for life. I don't know. That that don't seem right to me. I mean, it was it was probably more

Rachel Wilsoncomplicated than I just wasn't happy. The relationship wasn't good. Well, we're here to talk about relationships, so like maybe you can give us like a hint as to what else was going on or I mean, he would yell at me often. Like

Rachel WilsonI don't think women should tolerate being yelled at by their husbands. Well, I think to I think [laughter] there's I think there's definitely times when your husband might need to set you

Gracestraight and I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that. I mean, wives yell at their husbands plenty, don't they? If I was going to be giving somebody constructive criticism to set them straight, do you think

Rachel Wilsonyelling at them is going to be the way to have them receive the message or do you think >> I think that expecting men to act like women and be

Rachel Wilsonpsychologize everything and sound like an HR manager. Men are not going to This is what women need to understand. If you want to get married, don't have the expectation that a man is going to sit down and go, "Now, sweetie,

Rachel WilsonI would like to share with you my feelings about what just transpired and it's okay if you want to share, I'm going to share Like that's not how men communicate. Men are more straightforward and they'll say they'll

Rachel Wilsonusually try to talk to you first and go, "Hey, I don't like this. This behavior needs to change, whatever." And then when we cry or equivocate or give them all kinds of trouble or dance around it or turn it into a 5-day long argument,

Rachel Wilsonthey usually have enough and then they explode and then they yell. Now maybe that's not what happened with you, but when when women say emotional abuse to me, the first thing that comes to my head is they're thinking that the man

Rachel Wilsonneeds to act like a mommy. He needs to act like a girl. He needs to communicate like a female would. And that's not fair to expect from men and I think that if you want that, you should marry a woman. I mean, don't marry a woman because

Gracethat's not a thing, but I feel like in our relationship I was probably more in his mommy role versus his wife role because it's like, "Hey, the lawn needs to get mowed." Yeah, I'll do it tomorrow.

GraceAnd it's like, "Hey, can you just see that the lawn needs to get mowed?" And I'm doing X, Y, Z and we have a young child. Yeah. I don't think it's too much to ask for

Rachel Wilsonanother grown adult to actively be be participating in the home instead of It isn't, but is it worth breaking a family up over because the grass is a little long? Like you really This No, I mean that was that was just one example.

Rachel WilsonThat's just one example. What I What I And I used to do this myself. When I was younger, I used to do this, too. And I've seen all the women in my life do this. You're watching the man and you're going, "He didn't see the Does he not see that the grass needs to be mowed?

Rachel WilsonAnd did he not see that he dropped his socks on the bathroom floor and didn't pick them up? And I've told him to for a million times. He doesn't care about me. I've told him I don't like that. That means he doesn't care about me. He

Rachel Wilsondoesn't love me. That's emotional abuse." But in men's minds, they're going, "I got to go to work. I got to deal with my boss. I got to make sure that bill gets paid. I'm exhausted. 20 other people are calling me with things

Rachel Wilsonthat they want. I'm going to get to It's just [ __ ] grass, you know? In In a man's mind, it's like it's just socks. It's just grass. They're not trying to say, "I don't love you." And if you can understand that and go,

Rachel Wilson"It's just grass. We'll get We'll get through the grass." I had this big aha moment with my husband years and years ago where we were fighting over something small and stupid. It was so small and stupid that I don't even remember what it is. And I just wouldn't drop it. I was

Rachel Wilsonprobably on my period to be perfectly honest. Cuz I only get like that when I'm, you know, that time of the month. And finally, he just looked at me and said, "Are you going to divorce me over this? Is it that important to you that you're going to divorce Are you going to

Rachel Wilsonwalk away and divorce me?" And I went, "No." And he was like, "All right, then drop it." And I was really mad in the moment, but when I walked away and calmed down, I went, "You know, he's right." Like our

Rachel Wilsonmarriage, our family together is way bigger than whatever this petty thing is or even a bunch of petty things. And maybe I should try to be more understanding of like where his mind has to be, what it takes to be a breadwinner

Rachel Wilsonand a provider, all of the things that he carries on his shoulders that we don't really think about. And I think women, we process everything through our own experience and our own feelings and

Rachel Wilsonwe personalize stuff so much that when men do little things like that, uh and I've just seen this happen to so many of my friends and family members. Like a couple I know got divorced because And

Rachel Wilsonthe woman said, "He sets his coffee down on the on the counter every day and it drips and it leaves a ring. And I've told him a million times that I That bugs me. And he just won't wipe the He

RinaAll he has to do is wipe the coffee. And that's how I know he doesn't care about me." >> Okay, but at the same time, if he's the breadwinner, if he's the breadwinner and you're staying home, like you're cooking, you're cleaning, you're being

Rinathe traditional wife, then like I'm not going to lie. He's out there making all the money, paying all the bills, then like it's okay You can pick up the socks. Like that's your job. You are, you I don't know. MAYBE MAYBE HE CAN'T MOW

Rachel Wilsonthe lawn and maybe if he if he's truly too busy or he just really hates mowing the lawn, maybe maybe go to him and go, "You know, wouldn't it make sense to pay somebody to come and mow the lawn? You know what I'm saying? Can we afford that? Maybe that would be better." Um I

Rachel Wilsonjust think we are I think I think it's a lot of cultural influence that tells us to constantly keep track of everything the man's not doing and every little infraction that he makes instead of being like really generous and going,

Rachel Wilson"You know, men have a lot on their plate. They don't cry about it. He's not going to come tell me all his problems. He's going to keep it in here and and try to deal with it." So I don't know. I mean, they call it being an independent woman and they just call it being an adult and go about their

Olivialives. [laughter] And I find it really interesting that as a majority, women obviously love testosterone when it comes to paying for things, providing, protecting, putting their life on the line, in the bedroom.

OliviaAnd I know that because even though the majority of the brainwashed feminists online say they hate being controlled by a man, statistically, what's funny is when they are alone in their rooms at night, the most viewed adult content

Oliviatopic is what? Being controlled by a man. So it's almost like they're denying their biology so hard and then when they're alone, it just comes out and they can't deny it. Um but it's kind of unfair that we're willing to enjoy the

Oliviabenefits of testosterone, but then unwilling to nurture it when it comes to us needing to be kind and understanding of those things like they are tenfold because our emotions are haywire, which

Oliviawe can admit through it seems like silly memes like, "Oh, I said that crazy thing on my period." But when you were asked, it's like, "No, vote for her for president." Exactly. It's like, "No, vote for her for president. It's okay if she bombs

OliviaTexas when she's PMSing." [laughter] Like, no. So none of that makes sense to me. And it's not hard to just wipe up the ring, call someone to mow the lawn, or do it yourself, or you know, just >> to be fair, though, our generation,

Rachel Wilsonwe're about the same age. Our generation, especially the boomers, um that everybody born between like 1960 and 1990, we had movies, TV, magazines, radio

Rachel Wilsonprograms, everything in the media, everything in the pop culture was like men suck. Think of every every sitcom. Homer Simpson, Everybody Loves Raymond, like all the men are idiots, they're bumbling fools, and the wife's just like,

Rachel Wilson>> [sighs] >> "This guy is so stupid and I have to take care of everything. And he just wouldn't be able to live if I didn't do every little thing. What an idiot." And it's like we just really got bombarded with that propaganda and I think it made

Rachel Wilsonall of us look at our relationships and constantly count everything that we think he should be doing that he's not doing or all the little ways that he didn't take into account our feelings or

Rachel Wilsonnurture our emotions or things like that. And the truth is like marriage is a lifelong commitment. You're going to have a lot of ups and downs. You're going to disappoint each other. You're going to say bad things to each other. You're going to get into bad habits that

Rachel Wilsonyou got to break and it takes, you know, wanting to work through that stuff. But I just I just feel like when I hear emotional abuse more often than like real emotional abuse would be something

Rachel Wilsonlike he wouldn't let me speak to my own children. He wouldn't let me leave the house and, you know, see my friends or like something major like that, not like I told him to mow the lawn and he said he would do it

Gracetomorrow and then he didn't. So an example of something that would probably fit a little bit more with what you're saying is he liked to kind of buddy up with whoever my closest girlfriend was and like try and talk bad about me and

Rachel Wilsonlike try to like Ooh. you know. So he's poisoning poisoning theirs. Well, [laughter] well, that would be legitimate. That would be legitimate. Cuz I I tell women I don't think you should do that. I don't think you should

Rinaget together with your friends and talk [ __ ] about your husbands, either. So What you do with your partner stays with Like you have an argument, you're not going to go tell your friend. What is wrong with you? It's It's not a relationship with you, your partner, and

Rinayour friend. It's between you and your partner. It's private. So And you're going to forgive your husband. And then you mentioned Everybody Loves Raymond. Raymond was horrible about using weaponized

Graceincompetence about like, "I'm going to just do this so badly that she doesn't ask me to do it." And it's like >> [snorts] >> I mean, The show worked. It made you hate them.

Graceas as a mom, my job never ends. Like am I allowed to be like, "Oh, yeah, I've been playing with the kids all day or I've been feeding them or you know, do all the mom

Gracestuff." And like, "Hey, can I have a day off?" Like are you going to Like most most No moms get days off. Yeah, I don't know. I had five, so if I only had one, that would seem like literally a

Rachel Wilsonvacation to me. I I don't think that one would ever have given me Although actually, now that I think of it, having one is harder than having two or more. Because when you only have one, you're like their whole

Rachel Wilsonworld. You're their only person you know, until they're much older. So it can be really tough up until they're like six or seven. But uh I don't know. I just feel like

Rachel WilsonWhat Do you think it was worth it now? Like investing all that time and then just and getting divorced and or do you wish you could go back now and do things differently? You know, having

Gracehad a child with somebody else, um my son's dad was definitely a much more hands-on dad. I don't have any complaints about his participation in like the parenting aspect of it. Oh,

Gracethat's good. You know, I I felt like it was I was his arm candy. Like he he liked me cuz he thought I was hot. Like It's a big part of her value. That's [ __ ] I'm sorry. Like I don't

Rinaknow why women always It's always like, "Oh, our values are our looks." It's always our looks, you know? Well, no, I mean, I know, but it's [ __ ] that it is cuz like we have so much more to offer the world. >> are there so many people capitalizing on it? Because I'm sorry. they choose to.

Brian AtlasLike what? I'm a mechanic, bro. I fix people's cars. >> whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait. Hold on. Let me just paint a picture of what you just said. >> [laughter] >> I You said women have so much to offer.

Brian Atlas>> Yes. And I asked you not in a dismissive way, but I asked you in a asking for clarification way, I guess. I asked you what? And your first answer Is my occupation, absolutely. is

Brian Atlasthat you're a mechanic. Absolutely. Why the [ __ ] So okay, is Are you dating Are you dating men who have like 10 cars that are old and they're all constantly breaking down? No, I'm saying like

Rinabringing value to society. We're talking Wait. How would that Are we talking Yeah, like a marriage [clears throat] for your husband. Wasn't that the context of the I'm saying bringing value in general to the world. But wait. No, no, no. Hold

Rinaon. No, no, because because women's looks to the world, that's that's all the value we bring, right? Okay, I see. So you're saying It's like we're we're bearing children, we're looking hot, you know? It's like I'm saying no, we have so much more to bring. Not I mean, obviously to relationships, too. We have That's different. >> Okay, I thought it was within the

Rinacontext of relationships and I was like, No, I'm just saying in general. Like we have so much more to bring than just our our tits and like our asses and like I don't know. I just feel like a lot of women are just

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