Brian Made Her PUKE?! Reformed HØE?! Woke Girl Came To DESTROY Brian In A DEBATE?! | Dating Talk 277

Date: 2026-01-12

Duration: 10h 20m

Guests

Brian Atlas

CCourtney King >

JJamie Ericson >

AAlisa Tresenov >

TTabitha Chang >

KKatie (Model)>

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_03Courtney King / Jamie / Ava(guest)

SPEAKER_04Alisa Tresenov(guest)

SPEAKER_06Lada(guest)

SPEAKER_07Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_11Katie(guest)

SPEAKER_12Tabitha Chang(guest)

SPEAKER_13Annie (HR)(guest)

SPEAKER_14Levi(guest)

Key Moments

IntroAll 9 guests introduce themselves

Key MomentBrian's 7-point argument for not performing oral sex

ControversyFirst ever vomiting incident on the Whatever Podcast

Key MomentAva: drunk on Jose Cuervo, stabbed herself, beat up 3 people, jail

QuoteLada demands $10M/year minimum husband income

Topics Discussed

Guest Introductions

9 guests including Levi (male), Lada (18yo Russian rapper).

Jamie Relationship

Met boyfriend at 11, 3 kids, cheating history.

WoW Dating Analogy

Brian's World of Warcraft meta analogy for dating strategy.

Brian's Oral Sex 7 Arguments

Extended 7-point argument for not performing oral sex.

Vomiting Incident

First vomiting incident in show history.

Ava Stabbing/Jail

Stabbed herself drunk, beat up 3 people, jail.

Body Count Round

Range from 3 to 55+.

Transcript

Page 6 of 11

Brian Atlasname? >> I have no idea. His new wife is what I know. >> Plastic and she's got a history and >> apparently she's really smart. Oh wow.

Brian Atlas>> But who cares about so smart? I really don't [ __ ] [laughter] her. >> Do you think Do you think men care about that? >> I guess for their wife their wife. >> Let Let me clarify. >> It would be nice if they cared a little

Levibit about it >> in terms of your attractiveness does matter. >> You don't think >> You don't think intelligence makes a woman more attractive? >> No. >> Really? >> I don't. You don't think you can have

Brian Atlaslike a conversation? >> Well, to be clear, I think intelligence is a positive trait and in terms of for the benefit of your children. >> Mhm.

Brian Atlas>> Because I think intelligence to some degree is genetic. It would confer benefits to the children. It is a positive trait. But

Alisa Tresenovlike in terms of that raw like no >> I think whatever she did to get Jeff Bezos was very smart. >> Who? >> Lauren Sanchez. >> Lauren Sanchez.

Alisa Tresenov>> Well, the first wife or the second wife. >> The second one. The current one. >> What? What she did? >> Yeah. However, >> a marriage. Yeah. >> Yeah. Whatever she did. You're not even for marriages.

Brian AtlasUh, well, yeah, but I don't think you should be like breaking up a marriage or a relationship. >> She's strategic. I never said I was for it. I just said she's strategic.

Brian Atlas>> Um, okay. But, uh, I mean, yeah, I just don't really care about that to be honest.

Annie (HR)>> I mean, I said on my prenals, I don't think I can convince you. So, but I I still think Okay. >> No, no. I'm responding to like the intelligence thing. >> I disagree with that. >> I think >> men don't care. Men don't care.

Courtney King / Jamie / Ava>> I think they might not think they care, but biologically they want their children to be smart. >> Yeah, I said that. >> Yeah. So, I think attraction in itself is kind of like the whole point of it is to have

Brian Atlas>> Well, here let me let me >> let me propose a question to the women on the panel. If a man had a choice between a woman who was 10 out of 10,

Brian Atlasbut had a slightly below average IQ, not like [ __ ] but like below average. So, what's the average? 100. Is it 100? >> 96. >> What's the average? I don't know. Uh,

Brian Atlaslet's just say I mean I could even say like she has an average IQ, but she's a 10. Mhm. >> Or he can [snorts] date like a [ __ ] Mensah

Brian Atlas>> genius >> genius woman who's like a six out of 10 or maybe even a seven out of 10.

Annie (HR)>> 99% of men are taken >> Well, I don't know what I don't want to give an answer. What do you guys think? Starting with you into the mic. Um, I definitely think men will choose

Annie (HR)the more attractive woman than the like the less one with that smarter simply because well actually what I think men look for is like a female best friend. I think most relationships work best with

Annie (HR)with like their like my husband's my best friend and I don't know like >> if you're when I think about it that way like in terms of attractiveness versus intelligence. >> Mhm. I mean

Annie (HR)you have you can have below average best friends and that's like intelligence that's fine but like so in that case well then yeah the attractiveness is the most important because that's your partner

Levi>> with the drastic difference with what you said I think yes men would definitely choose like the slightly below average intelligence 10 out of 10

Courtney King / Jamie / Avafor sure. Yeah, I agree. Definitely looks over intelligence. >> I also agree.

Alisa Tresenov>> I agree with that. I think a man feels I agree, but because I think a man sometimes does not like to be oneuped

Alisa Tresenovwhen it comes to knowing something. They want to be the caretaker. They want to know everything. And sometimes when it starts off with attractiveness and then once the woman opens her mouth sometimes

Brian Atlasthey're like actually I don't know about all that. >> Well, I think you can be so stupid you're a liability. >> Yeah. >> Like there are women who are like even if they're really beautiful. Uh well I I

Brian Atlasdon't know even know if it's necessarily about intelligence but it's also would be about um like [clears throat] vanity or

Ladauh h I'm not quite sure how to describe it actually. I'll continue. >> Um probably the 10 out of 10. >> What do you think? >> I would also say yeah I agree on the

Courtney King / Jamie / Avathey would pick the 10 out of 10. >> Mhm. Hello. In your example, I do agree. Um, I'm going to give you a counter sure >> example, though. If there were two 10

Courtney King / Jamie / Avaout of 10 looks and one was stupid or one was below average IQ and one was intelligent, I do feel he would pick the one that's more

Brian Atlasintelligent. >> Uh, I think I would generally agree. Yeah. >> Yes. So, if you have like two women who are equivalent looks, uh, one's stupid, one's intelligent. Yes.

Brian Atlas>> Yes. I tend to agree. I would tend to agree. Uh really quick on your thing though, you said that uh the guy doesn't want to be like, >> but I also think this goes the other way

Brian Atlastoo. Uh men are okay dating women who are less intelligent than them. I think it's real tough for a woman to date a guy who's less intelligent than them. >> I can agree with that. >> So, it kind of goes like both ways a

Alisa Tresenovlittle bit. >> Yeah. So, uh, >> it starts off with a level of attractiveness and then you get to know the person more.

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. But I I think though for for your example that you gave, I do sometimes think intelligence, it depends what we mean by intelligence. >> Yeah. >> But sometimes intelligence isn't always

Brian Atlasa >> good thing. >> A good thing. That might seem like so I tend to generally agree but I also think there it depend >> can I rephrase your question or a

Leviquestion involving involving this? Do you think that stupidity makes women less attractive? >> Uh stupidity I guess it depends what we mean like how

Brian Atlasstupid depends what we mean by stupid. >> It's like a total dumb blonde dity doesn't know common sense. I think some people might actually find that endearing. Um,

Brian Atlas>> but I I think um [sighs] it depends on the scope and the scale of how intelligent or how stupid or what

Brian Atlasare the liabilities here because I think for example I think highly intelligent people sometimes perhaps through no fault of their own open themselves to mental illness in

Brian Atlasways that somebody who is let's say simple

Brian Atlasuh doesn't have the same level of existential dread and uh I'm trying to

Brian Atlasthink how I would best frame this. I think sometimes very intelligent people uh how do I there's there's a psychological

Brian Atlasterm for this but I I don't know what it it's evading me like you know that this idea torture genius like somebody who's so intelligent >> who's but sometimes when you're highly intelligent you can be a bit in your head

Brian Atlas>> overthinking >> you can be a bit in your head like what do they say like um [snorts] >> uh oh And there's this great saying like uh >> I mean it's like you're not able to

Katiecommunicate with anyone because you're too smart. >> I'm trying to think what it is though. H >> like along the lines of ignorance is bliss

Brian Atlas>> a little bit. A little bit like but I'm trying to there's a specific term for it. I do think sometimes highly highly

Brian Atlasintelligent people well I think really intelligent people >> got to be alone. I think really smart,

Brian Atlashigh IQ, intelligent people can sometimes be inflicted with self-doubt, whereas I think like dumb people are so [ __ ] confident sometimes that that

Brian Atlasthere's something that they're not to say that highly intelligent people can't be confident, but I think that people who

Brian Atlasheir more on like perhaps who have lower intelligence, they they're can be more confident in themselves. >> Whereas somebody who's highly intelligent is more likely to be very

Brian Atlasintrospective. Not to say they're introverted, but they're they're more likely to be introspective and be more perhaps thoughtful. And that can be a good thing, but it can also be like >> like [sighs] lead to anxiety.

Brian Atlas>> I don't know. You can be anxious or you can be like everything >> overinker and these sorts of things. So >> yeah, >> sometimes like I don't know some and some of y'all really intelligent women, you're just neurotic like you're just

Brian Atlaslike >> cuz we know what you [ __ ] upper like >> analyzing [ __ ] Oh my god. Whereas like a simple woman, you know? She's just a little simple, you know? >> She looks past everything.

Brian Atlas>> She's not like [ __ ] over analyzing. Oh my god. I don't know. Some of y'all smart women got anxiety. Hey, it is what it is. >> Smart. >> I don't know. [clears throat] Chat, what do you think? chat. What do you think? Am I kind of on to something or am I

Alisa Tresenovfull of [ __ ] >> Full of [ __ ] >> I'm full of [ __ ] >> Full of [ __ ] >> I don't think so. >> I don't think so. >> I'm trying to gauge what your type is, right? Cuz you want submissive, but big

Alisa Tresenovlabia. >> I'm so Okay. Besides, but not everyone can see that until, you know. >> Yeah. I only date women with giant. >> Is that like something you walk up and you're like, "Yes, I can tell you."

LeviI don't even like jump into bed with her and she's got like small baby. Is it just [ __ ] killer like [laughter] you? >> No, it's not. It's not a deal breaker. But um >> uh look, innies are nice and are great.

Brian AtlasOkay. [laughter] >> What does that even mean? >> An innie or an out. I don't know. Cover your I don't know where the ear inner lips are. >> No roast beef. No roast beef. I don't even understand. >> Don't Let's not use those terms. We got

Brian Atlasa butterfly wings. How about that? >> Butterfly wings. personality and outward looks that we can all see, not what we would see if we were

Brian Atlas>> like what what what's your type? >> What's my type? Uh I mean good-looking is is good. >> What is good-looking for you? >> Oh, >> cuz you there was a question you asked

Alisa Tresenovlike what's my height and what's the minimum height that I would date a guy? I gave my answer. What's your >> height? I don't really care. >> Okay. >> She can be um >> because you're 61 so it doesn't matter.

Brian AtlasWell, no, but I'm saying like I think overall men don't care all that much about height. They definitely care way less than women do. Uh, but there are some men who might be like, "Oh, I wouldn't date a girl taller than me."

Brian AtlasI'm like, "No, I don't care." In fact, I think that would be uh I mean, in terms of like for your kids, then yeah, that's a benefit for your kids. They'll be taller. Like I so I would date a woman taller than me and I

Alisa Tresenovwouldn't have some sort of like insecurity like oh she's taller than me. >> Oh I feel insecure. No I don't I don't care. That would be >> I don't know how I don't know if a taller woman than you would be

Alisa Tresenovnecessarily super submissive. That's like an Amazonian woman right there. >> She'll be like height is [laughter] >> I'm super submissive. >> I think I I don't think you're

Brian Atlascompletely wrong. Like I think um in terms of physicality like sure there is a component of like if the guy is more like physically dominant for example

Brian Atlasthen uh that can confer some ability to be submissive but a woman could be submissive uh to a man who's I guess smaller than her actually. Um but I I think you're on to something there but I

Alisa Tresenov>> just I've been so throughout our conversation I've been trying to gauge like what kind of like person you would be into. So, I'm getting submission to you mentioned

Brian Atlas>> large labia. Large labia. Uh, attractive s. Uh, and she has to Oh, we have to do the b.

Brian Atlas>> You like your thirds to be messages only every 3 days. If she's attractive, if she's attractive, she's attractive. I'm also aware that and look, I think we

Brian Atlashave to look at the totality, right? So, um, like I'm an a average or I guess technically below average looking guy, so like I'm not like holding out for some [ __ ] supermodel. I realize that

Brian AtlasI, you know, that's probably not on the cards for me. Although, hey, you know, >> you never know. >> I'm not going to turn one down, let's just say. Um, but, uh,

Brian Atlassubmissive, simp um, pleasant.

LadaDo you >> acts of service is big. She has to do acts of service. Yeah. Uh and >> also guys remember she has to respond right away but he can respond.

Brian Atlas>> Oh, I'm joking. responds within three business days. [laughter]

Brian Atlas>> But um pleasant like I I I cannot do the

Brian Atlaslike toxic, bratty, sarcastic, um high friction, high conflict stuff. I

Brian Atlaswon't tolerate it. Um so that's going to be a major issue. Um, some women think it's like cute to be like, to be clear when I say sarcastic, like if you're making a joke and it's a bit

Brian Atlassar, like that's not an issue. But if you're being like sarcastic in a way that's like uh retributive, that's sort of like I don't know, like

Brian Atlasyou being passive aggressive. >> No, I I don't tolerate that. I don't tolerate disrespect. So, that's going to be a major I mean, it's not it's not going to be a major issue. I'm just not going to date you.

Brian AtlasSo I I can't do high conflict, high friction relationships. So somebody who's going to bring who's going to bring peace, who's going to defer to my who's going to defer to me peace, submissive

Annie (HR)um >> a yesw woman.

Brian Atlas>> No, it's not the yesw woman necessarily. Well, it depends what you mean by yeswoman. >> Yes to anything you say. But she has to well ideally yes

Brian Atlaspersonality but she actually has to not just yes but secretly not like it. She has to >> no you want her to have opinion.

Brian Atlas>> She has to like actually be on board. >> Like I don't want a girl who's like doing [ __ ] uh >> like she's obsessed with making you happy. >> What's the word? >> So like Yes.

Brian Atlas>> No. No. What's the word for for somebody who does something like oh begrudging? >> Nah. Like, >> like for example, a [ __ ] I don't want a begrudging [ __ ] [laughter] Like, okay, she's doing the chore

Brian Atlas[ __ ] No, she has to be like she needs to suck the dick. >> A woman who wants >> I don't want I don't want a a a chore [ __ ] is I guess, you know, she she needs the dick.

Annie (HR)>> What if she does that not because she loves the dick, but because she wants to make you happy? Yeah. >> Well, that's part of it. Look, that's that's fair. I'll accept that. I'll accept that, you know. >> Do you want kids?

Brian Atlas>> You ask us a lot about this. I'm wondering if you want a family. >> Do I want kids? >> Do you want a family? >> Yes. But like I would keep her around as like a concubine, you know. >> Her specific. >> Yeah. Like her like she could be, [laughter]

Brian Atlasyou know, she could be like my mistress and like I would I would, you know, take care of the, you know, she'd help with the chores in the house and she'd help raise the kids or whatever. She'd be like, it's not quite polygamy, but I'd

Brian Atlaskeep her on the side. And so I I've like, you know, like for for her, like if a woman doesn't want kids, you know, we can, you know, >> we'll see. But I think yes, I I would want kids. >> Cool.

Brian Atlas>> So, I didn't mean to make things awkward there, but but [laughter] um wait, what was I the begrudging? Oh, yeah. So, look, I'm a simple guy. Um large labia. It's not a dealbreaker, though. So, I don't know. >> It has to be important.

Brian Atlas>> Oh, simp. >> Okay. S submissive. That's kind of it. I mean, yeah, just be a s and submissive. >> What are your guys's like >> I got to get up. You guys talk about

Courtney King / Jamie / Avathat though. >> What was your question? >> What are your guys' like ideal types like in a man? Like on paper if he's perfect, but this is what >> start >> my man.

Annie (HR)>> Yeah. Like I can't think of anything because like I'm so like single focused on my man. Like I can't think of anything. >> What attracted you to your husband? He's incredibly traditional. He He is

Annie (HR)Russian, so he's very traditional. He takes care of me. He paid for my trip here. Like, he just said, "Go have fun." Like, so he and I like worship him. I am a s for him. Like, I'm like, he needs he

Annie (HR)wants to wake me up at 3:00 a.m. so I can make him a sandwich. I will do that. Like, so that's like me with him and he's like, and in turn, he takes care of me. So, it's really balanced. So I I love the dynamic because we understand

Annie (HR)each other's rules that we are not equal, but this is what he does and this is what I do and we just have that understanding and we mesh really well. [snorts] Um my man is just like just everything

Levithat you can imagine like a man's man. Like he's assertive um but without being like overbearing but he leads me, he guides me. Um,

Leviand then you know just in general he he knew who he was without anyone else and

Levihe just was confident and sexy and just like everything. So everything that like you imagine when you're a little girl like it was like manifested into this person.

Levi>> Oh, that's great. >> So I feel like once you find that person like that's you know you know what I mean? Everybody always is like, "Oh, when you know, you know." And it sounds so cliche and stupid, but like I've never felt like this before. And like

Leviwhen again when you like meet that person and you feel these things that you've never felt before, they just it just changes like who you are. You like want to be better yourself for that person.

Lada>> I agree. >> I feel like as long as a man is not like being feminine himself, like he's acting like a girl. that thing completely

Courtney King / Jamie / Avathrows me off. Like I cannot deal with a person if they're like that. I um

Courtney King / Jamie / Avajust on paper I would love somebody who respects me and is kind to me and takes good care of my kids

Courtney King / Jamie / Avalike provides. >> What about like genetic preferences? Do you guys have those? Um, yeah.

Courtney King / Jamie / AvaYeah. I like mixed guys a lot. >> Oh, okay. Well, I mean, sure. Yeah. Race, but I was also talking about like eye color, hair color, like >> I love a short king. I love a short king. Oh my god. Every man I've ever

Courtney King / Jamie / Avabeen with has been either my exact height or shorter than me. >> I've dated one taller guy. I don't like that we weren't at eye level. >> What's wrong? Wait, is your man is your man man now at eye level or is he >> little less? >> He's shorter than you.

Courtney King / Jamie / Ava>> A little less. Yeah. >> I mean, she's tall. >> I don't know what it is. I get the controversy. Tall men are better to some people. Whatever. Like they want to look up. I don't get it for myself. I just I love a short king. >> The protection thing. I like men that

Courtney King / Jamie / Avalook like >> that's Yeah. >> Like big masculine. >> Yeah. But my man carries a gun. [laughter] >> Okay. So do I. So he could protect me.

Courtney King / Jamie / AvaHe doesn't have to be the biggest, strongest, scariest person to protect me. >> Sure. >> Yeah. But I actually do think and I

Ladastrongly believe that a woman should be able to completely provide for herself, make her own finances, be able to support herself without a man. Like

Tabitha Chang>> you should be able to, but when you find that person that wants to do it, it's an incredible feeling. Like it's absolutely amazing. When we got pregnant with our first, it was like my husband just went

Tabitha Changinto high gear and was like, "Nope, I'm on it. We've got this." And it was just the most amazing feeling that he wanted to protect us and provide for us. And we have exceptional kids cuz I get to be home with them.

Lada>> Mhm. >> It's It's kind of a crazy amazing feeling. Honestly, it that probably does not resonate with me because whenever [laughter] someone's trying maybe like trying to take care of me. I'm like like

Tabitha Changgh >> Oh, you're so young. >> That's the feminism brainwashing. You've been brainwashed. >> Like I'm able to do all those things. I have done all those things. I've done everything on my own. But it was just this feeling when he took over it was

Brian Atlaslike, whoa. >> I get this one focus now. That's my focus is my children now. Wait, isn't it like more traditional in Russia though? Also, by the way, not concubine. I think that's like a sex worker.

Katie>> Yeah. >> Uh, [laughter] mistress. Mistress though, you know. You know, I'm just saying >> not the first time I've been >> uh asked offered that. Yeah.

Katie>> I had a guy on, we weren't even on a date or anything. I was meeting him for a work thing and we were discussing something about work and he just brought it up randomly. He was like, "So, I'm looking for a wife." I was like, "Okay,

Katie>> where are you going? >> Great. What's happening?" And then he, you know, I mentioned the thing where I I don't want to have kids, whatever. Went through my whole explanation. And he was like, "Well, so you fit into this other category." And basically was like, "You could be my mistress and I'll pay

Brian Atlasfor you and support you and everything." And I was like, >> "Not not into it." No. >> You want the Yeah. >> Yeah. I like >> that doesn't sound fun. Thank you.

Brian AtlasYeah, I mean uh I I would say that I mean I definitely do want kids, but if I you know, whatever. If it didn't happen, then I'd be like I'd be okay. If it didn't

Brian Atlashappen, I'd be fine with it. But I definitely want seven kids. >> Do you not think that >> seven sons? >> I need a [ __ ] soldiers. I need >> I need I need a gang. [laughter] I need

Levia clan. Clan's a good football team. What if your sons one day or daughters one day ask why you're not married to their mommy? >> A >> what what if they ask that? >> Yeah. All their friends have mommies and

Brian Atlasdaddies that are married. I mean, what what if they ask why aren't you married to my mommy? >> Uh I would be like, well, that other couple over there, she's [ __ ] cheating on on [laughter] her

Brian Atlashusband. >> You have a but you have a mistress. I think the important >> look I I'm fine with monogamy but I'm just saying you know look I'll say this I think

Brian Atlas>> removing religion from the conversation right [snorts] >> I think if you were to ask most guys that actually reminds me I want to do this new segment that we've never done

Brian Atlasone sec um I think if you ask most men see I'm pretend look at it like this and this will be the next segment I'm big brother Brian [laughter] >> I

Brian Atlasguys want to [ __ ] you and they're not going to be honest with you. I've got a podcast where honestly the more honest I am the better. Uh, most men are not going to be honest

Brian Atlasabout what they really think. And well, especially not only that, even if in a in a one-on-one setting, but especially publicly, most men things are changing a little bit, but most men

Brian Atlascan't be fully honest about well, a lot of things, whether it's politics, whether it's dating, um, because there are pretty severe social ramifications

Brian Atlasto be honest. Politically, it's changing a little bit. Culture war is kind of changing. Uh, but I've got this podcast. I've already like the sip the ship has

Brian Atlassailed. Like I've already said all the not all the controversial things, a lot of controversial things. Uh, you know, so uh I I won't really have too much to

Brian Atlashold back. Uh, but the point I was going to make was I think if most men are honest and they were dating a woman and that woman would be loyal to them and

Brian Atlaslove them and nothing would change and that woman was okay with him seeing other women, he would do it. If she was fine with it

Brian Atlasand she was loyal, she stayed loyal to him like she was exclusive to him, but he could go out and sleep with other women. If most men are really being honest and it wouldn't bother the woman, they'd be like, "Yeah, absolutely."

Brian Atlas>> So, you just want your cake and eat it, too? >> Well, I mean, you have to understand, I'm not speaking prescriptively. I'm I'm not saying what should be. I'm saying what is. I'm speaking descriptively. I

Brian Atlasit is the case that I think if you ask most women, most men if your girlfriend, your wife was totally

Brian Atlascool with you sleeping with other women so that the man could satisfy some base evocy evolutionary urge to have variety. Yeah, they would do it.

Brian Atlas>> What if you do it together like threesomes? >> I think yes, that that's an option. I think that's an option.

Brian AtlasUm I don't know. >> There's many women who are into that. So, >> sure. But I I am just saying I think most men

Brian Atlasuh I think you'd have to It's hard to say. I think I don't know if I think we would have to exclude Christian men perhaps. Maybe even Christian men would be fine with it. I don't know.

Brian Atlas>> I'm not sure. Mhm. >> I mean it it is in contradiction to Christianity though cuz Christianity calls for biblical marriage. >> Yeah. >> And that would be monogamy,

Annie (HR)>> right? >> But in terms of their desire, that's another question. >> You've met a lot of Christian men. You're you're saying like for example

Annie (HR)Charlie Kirk, you're saying that like he he would like in his most base desire that's totally what he would want to like and and like Matt Walsh, Michael knows like all these other Christian conservatives like that that deep down inside this is really what they they

Brian Atlaswould do. >> Well, I don't think so because we're highly intelligent creatures, humans, I don't think we are beholden to our base evo evolutionary psychology, biological

Brian Atlasdrives. We're not beholden to them. We're not slaves to them. But [sighs] this idea that through the social construction of marriage that this completely diminishes a man's

Brian Atlasphysical or sexual attraction to to other women. Um I I I mean I just it doesn't uh of course

Brian Atlasmen can be loyal, men are loyal, but this idea that you know if there was a you know if it was for for example

Brian Atlaswomen were just totally fine with with it. Um I think most men would Yeah. I mean, I

Brian Atlasthink most men would do anything to have their cake and eat it too and to have multiple women at once. >> Well, I mean, I think this also applies to women and we actually do we do see

Brian Atlasthis played out quite a bit. So, I think typically what you'll see happen and this is actually an evolutionary strategy. So, what women do, you you don't like it when I talk about what men do or what men might want to

Brian Atlasdo. So women would want to get impregnated by like the most uh if it was totally up to them, women would want to get impregnated by the most fit. And

Brian AtlasI don't necessarily mean uh necessarily like your you bodybuild or whatever. Like women would want to get impregnated by the most dominant, the most

Brian Atlasphysically attractive, the largest, and the mo. So that would somewhat uh relate to um [clears throat] uh you know physical size or whatever.

Brian AtlasAnd then you have uh knowing that that guy who's who's the most physic uh fit and I I use fit fitness in a evolutionary context. [gasps] Uh and

Brian Atlasthen they find another guy who's not the father to take care of to be like the good beautiful husband who's going to do the dishes.

Brian AtlasI think that that's women's evolutionary strategy, but that does not fly. That doesn't fly. >> I have a question. >> Yeah. >> Who do you think is more

LadaWho do you think is going to cheat first? Like a a man or a woman? >> Emotionally, women physically men? >> I'm not sure if that's true. Women are also really good at hiding it. >> What is emotional cheating? when you're

Brian Atlaslike catching feelings for another guy even though you're with your partner. >> But that's inevitable. I mean like your feelings like >> wait wait wait really quick before to move off before we move off of this. So

Brian AtlasI do think it's the case that basically you'll have women will have this sort of mating strategy where it's like y'all get pregnant by some hot dude

Brian Atlaswhatever. I mean, here's the thing, right? Is the ideal thing would be find the most fit man. And again, I'm not using like he's he could it could be

Brian Atlashe's like [ __ ] Chad in the face or whatever that too. Um, you find the most fit man to mate with, to have children with, but knowing that that guy has so much sexual options, he's never going to

Brian Atlasbe be like the father. He's not going to commit to you >> because he has so many sexual options. He's going to impregnate all these women. Why would he commit to you? Why would he invest resources into you? But he'll give you the seed.

Brian Atlas>> Mhm. So that would confer the most benefits for your children, but uh well benefits in terms of uh fitness, but you also need to balance that with well you also

Brian Atlasneed the resources of a man to better be able for your own safety and security and to be able to uh uh in the most efficient and best way

Alisa Tresenovpossible raise your children. So that would be the other side of it. >> Mhm. You know, when I would whenever I

Alisa Tresenovwould start talking to a guy, >> I actually would tell him I'm like, "If you want to see other people while we're seeing this is not like us officially

Alisa Tresenovdating." And I'm like, "I don't want to know about it. Don't just you do you. I do my thing." And it's like until we become official, you're not tied to me.

Alisa TresenovBut I myself don't know if I would necessarily I might feel a little guilty. So like I've always asked myself this question. Would I allow my my my

Alisa Tresenovboyfriend to see other women and me myself just stay with my guy or if he's doing it then so can I? >> I mean that's kind of respectful of each

Alisa Tresenovother if you're like okay I don't want to know if it happens. >> Yeah. I just I'm like don't ask don't tell type. But are you exclusive to him? >> That's where that's where I'm stuck.

Alisa TresenovLike would I be like if if I genuinely love the guy, like do I feel satisfied enough to just be with him or do I need my needs to be

Brian Atlas>> uh met by other people? It's just like a it's a question that I myself have thought of. So it's >> Well, I think there there's a maybe an

Brian Atlasevolutionary basis for a bit of a a difference here. So I think look I I think promiscuity is bad in both men and women. So I don't think men or women

Brian Atlasshould be promiscuous. I think the ideal scenario is you find somebody when you're still relatively young. You stay with them. You have kids with them if you can or if you're inclined to. But I

Brian Atlasthink sleeping around high body counts promiscuity. Uh I think it's bad on the individual level and I think it's really bad on the societal level. like it's bad for society and so for both men and

Brian Atlaswomen although I think it's a bit worse for in women to be honest maybe you call that a double standard but like in terms of the acceptability of like a man having multiple women and you still

Brian Atlasbeing exclusive to him I think in some ways um we've seen this as a phenomenon that is more common like in history than the reverse

Brian Atlas>> so like kings would have I don't know, some [ __ ] warlord, whatever, will have multiple women. And I think that like that's a sign of

Brian Atlaslike good for him. Hold on. I shouldn't say that, but I should say that um you see it more often in history.

Brian Atlas>> Uh however, the reverse is not quite as common and is like kind of gross, not going to lie. >> It's like frowned upon if it's the reverse. Well, I think part of it has to

Brian Atlasdo with the the uh the children, like the paternity. So, for example, prior to the 1980s when

Brian AtlasDNA testing became a thing, if I had 10 wives, and let's just grant in the hypothetical that they're all loyal to me, right? If I have 10 wives, we know

Brian Atlaswho each of the mother is for all the children, and we know who I'm the father. We know who the father is for all the children. If a woman has 10 husbands, who the [ __ ] is the father?

Brian Atlas>> Who's the father? You don't you can't know. >> Yeah. >> So, I think there's like for that reason, men are more invested in the

Brian Atlasuh loyalty of because you don't want to be like, let's say you get bamboozled and like I'm dating a girl, I'm married to a girl. Meanwhile, by the way, girls

Brian Atlasare when it comes to cheating You don't know that [ __ ] Um, I mean, unless you're I mean, you can obviously girls get discovered cheating, of

Brian Atlascourse, but women are typically a little [ __ ] clever about that [ __ ] Um, what was I saying? Oh, um, okay. You're

Brian Atlasmarried to a woman, she's cheating, uh, she gets pregnant by the other guy. That's one of the biggest L's a guy can take is thinking the kid is his,

Brian Atlasthinking he's reproduced, thinking that's his lineage, thinking that's his blood, pouring resources into a m a woman who isn't loyal to you,

Brian Atlasand pouring resources into a kid who isn't yours. Biggest L a guy can take. That women can never experience that because if you get pregnant, you know the kid's yours,

Brian Atlasright? So, I think men are just way more invested in female loyalty than the reverse because the ultimate manifestation and like you go, you know, ultimately you have kids with somebody. Again, I understand some people don't

Brian Atlaswant kids. That's fine. So, I think that's why female promiscuity and female disloyalty is more negatively appraised.

Brian AtlasJust saying. I don't know. Whatever. you had something? >> Um, I think so. I

Brian AtlasWhy? Well, you kind of already answered that. My question just fleeted out of my brain actually. So, >> Oh, okay. Well, um I we Okay, we have to do the bow. We have to do some of the

Brian Atlaslooks stuff and then we have to do really quick though since I brought it up. Big Brother Brian. So, I'm here. Maybe you've had something bouncing around your head either today or last week or last month or last year.

Brian AtlasWhatever it is, I will give you an unfiltered raw advice. I'll give you It can be dating advice. Maybe it's just a question you have. Maybe it's like, I don't know, it can be anything. It could be dating. It could be relationships. It

Brian Atlascould be sex. Whatever. Anything you've always been curious about and you want the an answer from a guy who's not trying to have sex with you. Because men lie if they're trying to

Katiehave sex with you. >> Like they'll plate and >> Yeah. >> You know, >> you know, >> I have a question. >> Sure. >> Why don't men just tell you that they just want to have sex with you and

Alisa Tresenovthey're not interested in a relationship with you? Like why can't you just be like transparent? >> That's a good question. That's a good question. >> Because some women would be like, "All right, cool." Like that's fine. >> Cuz earlier you told me that they're just not interested in me like that. when I could I said the same thing

Brian Atlasbasically >> afraid of me. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a it's a good question. I'll answer it. Uh well, let me ask you this one question and I'll give you some feedback, I guess. um in

Brian Atlasterms of what you're looking for like currently um if a guy uh who you otherwise were attracted to but he just said politely he was like look um I

Brian Atlasthink you're attractive but I just want to sleep with you tonight and never speak to you again and maybe you'd want to change the language there so that that's maybe a little >> just give it more charitable language

Katiebut that's the essence of what he's getting at. Would you go for it? Probably not. But I would appreciate the honesty, you know. But also, um, >> now what about this? What if a guy said

Brian Atlassomething like, "Well, look, I don't want a one night stand, but listen, um, uh, I'd have sex with you like 10 times, but then I'll probably tire you."

Brian Atlas>> Like, no, that that's a bit rude. That's a bit rude. But, um, that's the essence. Like, you could make it as flowery as you would like. But, you said the guy should be honest, right? So the guy's

SPEAKER_10like, "Look, um, I see myself having sex with you 10 times and about 10 times. Would you go for that?" >> No. >> Okay. See, so they're afraid of being rejected.

Brian Atlas>> But a woman might. I might say no, but someone else might say yes. >> But so look, >> I one thing on this, I think men,

Brian Atlaswell, I think a couple I think a lot of things. Uh, I don't think men should lie about their intentions. I think that that's wrong. So, and I don't think you

Brian Atlascan argue to the contrary. If a man in in furtherance of just getting sex from you says, "Hey, I'm looking for

Brian Atlassomething serious. I want a girlfriend. Um, I you know, I'm have serious intentions with you for you." And then he sleeps with you. And it was

Brian Atlasa lie. Like, I think it's just be clear one caveat. a man could have those intentions with you and then like he sleeps with you and either there's a lack of sexual compatibility or after

Brian Atlassleeping with you um I don't know do you >> it could be that or just your behavior he's like oh whoa okay there's new information I don't like her anymore

Brian Atlaslike >> that can happen but if it's clear like the guy is clearly going into it with no lying be like yes of course I want a long-term relationship with you he's

Brian Atlasbeing deceptive. He's lying. That's wrong. Men shouldn't do it, right? Um, but you're asking why they do it. Well, >> they do it because

Brian Atlasthey want to sleep with you. And I I think uh it's I don't think it's a crime, but it's definitely I think it's

Brian Atlasprobably morally and ethically wrong um to mislead somebody in so far as would you sleep with them

Brian Atlashad their true intentions been known? Well, uh pro if the answer is no, then they've bamboozled you, which is wrong. Uh but they do it because uh yeah,

Ladathey're trying to have sex with you and that's wrong, but that's why they do it. >> Trying to play it safe. So they don't want you to say no beforehand like

Ladabecause if you find out you you he did just ask and you did just say no. I would not do it if I knew it was just a one night stand.

Katie>> Yeah. I mean, I also think that it's um like like I said, I mean, I might say no, but someone else might say yes, right? So, I think I always I don't know. Me personally, I think transparency and honesty is the best

Brian Atlaspolicy always. Um >> yeah, and look, I I do think there are negotiated friends with benefits dynamics that do occur. I don't think all men are doing this misleading thing. Perhaps a lot are

Annie (HR)though. Um, but uh >> a common thing that men say that isn't technically a lie, right, is we'll see where it goes. >> Which could be at the end of the night,

Annie (HR)it could be 10 years from now, but you never know. Would that change your answer if the answer you got was we'll see where it goes. >> I don't know. I feel like I've gotten

Katiethat answer before. Um, I ask a lot of questions on a first date. I kind of like interrogate the person, which maybe doesn't always come off great, but I would rather get all the bad [ __ ] out on

Katiethe table and sort sort through that before we even go on a second date, personally. Um, and so I think the the we'll see where it goes. For me, I've

Katiebeen I've accepted that, but then it's usually I'm you're not going to get anything from me until we're like months in. Have you ever like had a casual thing like a fling or

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. Yeah. >> But I mean also I think people also have this experience and I don't know if you've had this experience. >> Um of the long-term relationships I've had I've had and I've had multiple

Brian Atlaslong-term relationships like 1 year, 5 years, 2 years. Um it wasn't like let's wait 3 months to have sex of my long-term relationships. And I have very positive things to say about almost all

Brian Atlasmy exes. except one. I don't say well anyways um >> it's getting interesting. [clears throat] >> It wasn't yeah let's wait three months to have sex. It was like first second or third date we had sex and I liked her

Brian Atlasshe liked me we contin continued seeing each other. So I mean have you had that experience where it's like you meet a guy you guys had sex early pretty early on and then you guys liked each other and became

Katieboyfriend girlfriend down the road. I have the person I'm thinking of in particular though, which is really interesting. We were together for a year and a half. It was but it was also meh. Um, me and awesome all at the same time.

Katie>> Um, >> yeah, we did. We had sex early on and we were together for a year and a half, but he early on told me that it was just going to be a casual thing. And I was okay with that with him whenever it

Katie[clears throat] started cuz it kind of the relationship started off like that. And then all of a sudden he was at my door every single night and then it [snorts] slowly kind of turned into a relationship. And then kind of a way

Katiethat ended I think kind of like soured me for doing that again. Um because he basically ended up moving in with me and >> then I was like supporting him

Brian Atlas>> kind of. So >> yeah, maybe another reason why men will do that, again, I don't think it's right, but I think so. I think uh men

Brian Atlaswhen it comes to just casual sex, they will men will [ __ ] down. So what I mean by this is for men, let's

Brian Atlassay of a lower attractiveness to be sexually competitive, uh well either I mean uh how do I frame this correctly? Uh they might have to feain romantic or

Brian Atlaslong-term interest because like for a woman, let's say a woman just wants a one night stand. I think women when it comes women can sleep outside their league. They typically can't get relationships

Brian Atlasout of their league, but women can sleep outside their league. So women, let's say a woman who's not otherwise that interested in a short-term thing, casual

Brian Atlassex, a one night stand, she's going to break that rule if the as the guy becomes more attractive. So, a girl who's like doesn't really wouldn't do a one night stand or wouldn't do friends

Brian Atlaswith benefits, if the guy's really attractive outside of her league and he's offering her the one night stand,

Brian Atlasoffering her uh friends with benefits, uh she might bite on that, but like whereas for well, the difference is for

Brian Atlasmen, when men seek out casual sex, they'll go way down. Like for men, if it's just casual sex, you basically have to be willing. And >> this is gonna sound bad. You gota just

Brian Atlashave a hole basically. >> Uh I mean obviously look the guy look obviously as a guy even if you just want casual sex you'd want to maximize for the most attractive woman you can get. But men are willing to go down. >> Mhm.

Brian Atlas>> They'll go down. Like so for example, I'll frame it like this. This is the best way I can frame it. A guy uh well how about this for you women.

Brian Atlashide it for you women. In order for you to have sex with a man in terms of his looks, his attractiveness, in order for you to have

Brian Atlassex with him, he has to be at least good-looking enough that you would be in a relationship with him, right? >> Yeah.

Brian AtlasWhereas for men, men will have sex with women that in terms of their the woman's attractiveness, he would be like on the sole basis of her looks, I would never

Brian Atlasconsider being in a relationship with her, but I would have sex with her. So this is this is the big difference

Brian Atlashere. This is the big dilemma. And so uh this causes a quite a few issues, but yeah, >> I don't know. Followup question. Yeah, sure. >> Brother Brian. >> Yeah.

Katie>> Um, >> big brother. >> Big [laughter] brother Brian. >> Big brother Brian. Um, so how would you go about like filtering this then >> as a woman? >> Yeah. >> Uh, >> if you were a woman, how would you do this?

Brian Atlas>> Yeah, that's a good question. And I I actually acknowledge that women are kind of in in a bind in a bind because uh h

Brian Atlasbecause on one hand if you're dealing with a really high like a a high tier guy uh he has no shortage

Brian Atlasshortage of sexual options and you're going to be less competitive. Uh if you're pursu well not pursuing but if if you're interested in him and

Brian Atlasyou're like holding back sex and like women who are just as attractive as you or more attractive than you are giving him sex you're like dep prioritized in terms of his rotation in terms of what

Brian Atlashe wants. [sighs and gasps] So, but on the other hand, uh if you do give the guy sex too soon and then he like what happens he goes. So, I think women are been a bit of a

Brian Atlasbind. I actually don't know what the solution is absent a complete return. [sighs and gasps] I mean there isn't a good solution

Brian Atlascurrently cuz on on one hand I think if you withhold withhold withhold a lot of guys who might otherwise get into a relationship with you um they're going

Brian Atlasto be like ah man whatever I'm not going to too much work but he might otherwise end up your boyfriend if you did give him sex but you're holding back holding back holding back he's like ah I want sex

Brian AtlasI'll find a girl who will give me sex and then maybe she'll be my friend. Uh, but you also have to balance that with you don't want to get played. You don't want to get used just for sex.

Annie (HR)>> I think knowing like a background like let's say you you saw a Christian man, right? Or you that the likelihood that this person is just, you know, in it for the sex is lowered. So, you know,

Brian Atlas>> maybe lean there. >> From personal experience, I disagree. >> I don't think they were very Christian then. >> Yeah. Uh, I mean, I think there's a lot of >> You never know.

Brian Atlas>> I think there's a lot of like lukewarm Christians who engage in premarital sex all the time, who want to have sex. There's Christian women who have Bible

Brian Atlasverses in their Instagram who actually I don't know if I I'm not going to share any detail, but um I look

Brian Atlassometimes people are laring a little bit as Christians. So, even if you do, I mean, I think it's better than like you're going to have probably a better

Brian Atlasshot with a Christian guy than with like a lib liberal guy, atheist guy, but but uh yeah, I don't I actually don't know the

Brian Atlassolution. The sol the solution would have to be complete structural and societal upheaval and

Brian Atlasyou'd need to have a return to uh no sex before marriage. And all women would have to enforce this

Brian Atlasbecause if men only get sex within the confines of marriage, men will only pursue women. I mean,

Brian Atlasthere's some Look, I'll there's some guys who will wait [ __ ] years for [ __ ] I'm going to be honest. But um that's kind of pathetic.

Brian Atlasum in the sense that they just played the long game and then uh dip I think you would need to basically in order to this sort of paradox I guess that you're

Brian Atlaspresenting we have to completely return to like universal no sex until marriage because a man wouldn't pursue a woman

Brian Atlasunless he had long-term interest in her because I mean what else? But I don't think that's going to

Brian Atlashappen. The cat's out of the bag. So I guess we're just [ __ ] I I don't have a solution. I think that's it. But um I think a good

Brian Atlasstarting point you could I don't know like look I'll also share my perspective though. Um, so but

Brian Atlasto achieve what you want to achieve probably like yes, we're going to wait to have sex. But from my perspective, I actually like I'll actually pass on

Brian Atlaswomen who don't want to have sex. Like just being honest, I'll just pass. Like she doesn't It It depends a little bit though. Um,

Brian Atlaslike if she's a virgin, we can wait a little bit, but if she's like had sex before and like I think the new guy doesn't want

Brian Atlasdifferent treatment, like if I would feel a type of way kind of like with her situation, remember in the beginning of the show, >> you were saying there's these guys you you hook up with, have sex with quickly, right?

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. >> You've had that experience. Maybe it's the first date, second date, third date, third time hanging out, whatever. We don't have to use date, but first time, second time, third time hanging out. You [ __ ] them.

Brian Atlas>> Meanwhile, you got guys you've been dating for You're an interesting case, just to be fair. >> You got a dude you've been seeing for 6 months, a year, three years, whatever

Brian Atlasthe [ __ ] and you haven't slept with him. Like, I'd feel I'd feel raw about that. like it. I'm dating a I'm dating a girl >> here. Here's the scenario.

Brian AtlasUh I would pass on this girl. >> Not not when I'll give you a hypothetical girl. When I say I'll pass on this girl. >> Uh

Brian AtlasI meet a girl. I like her. I think she's attractive. And maybe the second date, third date, whatever, trying to move things forward. Move things forward. And she's like, "Oh, um I want to wait."

Brian Atlas>> Mhm. And then maybe I might like But if I knew that three, two months ago she had a one night stand,

Brian AtlasI'd be like, "Hold on. What's going on here?" Like, I want something longterm with you because I I'm not interested. At least from my own perspective. She might not she not she might not believe me. She might not know, but I one night

Brian Atlasstands are worthless to me. Like I have no interest in it. I want continuity with a girl. Like it's useless to me to just [ __ ] a girl once. That's stupid. >> Yeah. >> Like I believe I want something longterm

Brian Atlaswith a girl. So, but I also don't have any qu like we can have sex quick. >> Like I'm fine with that. >> Uh where was I? Sorry, I'm losing my train of thought a little bit here. >> Uh >> I feel like

Brian Atlas>> Oh yeah. Yeah. So I would feel a bit bent out of shape if like hey I'm interested in being with you. Um, you want to wait, but that's not a

Ladastandard that you held other men to. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I would be like I'd be pretty raw about that. >> I think that's a a personal thing, but I

Brian Atlasjust The thing with me, I just get a lot of mixed signals. Like, I don't really know. Like, >> what? They're gay. The guys you're dating are gay. They don't want to have sex with you. I just get mix feelings

Ladalike >> one day I kind of like the person I'm like attracted to them and then the next day I'm like okay you know what I don't really like this person at all and it's

Ladajust for instance the guy like I knew for a year the time we just met like last year I thought I liked him >> and now this year we met again and we

Ladaliterally meet once a year which doesn't make any sense to me I realized that you know I actually don't have any feelings. And I was like, you know what?

LadaI'm just going to I'm not going to say anything essentially. Just like breaking it it off. Absolutely. But I'm just going to >> just going to like space out a little

Brian Atlasbit just, you know, like >> Well, okay. I I guess there's this phenomenon though where uh I guess I was kind of balancing the

Brian Atlasthe I don't know if this is the right term but like the female position versus the male position. So for in your case like probably what's

Brian Atlasmost advantageous to you would be to wait. uh it might mean you might otherwise miss out on a guy who you know even if you do have sex with

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