Brian Made Her PUKE?! Reformed HØE?! Woke Girl Came To DESTROY Brian In A DEBATE?! | Dating Talk 277

Date: 2026-01-12

Duration: 10h 20m

Guests

Brian Atlas

CCourtney King >

JJamie Ericson >

AAlisa Tresenov >

TTabitha Chang >

KKatie (Model)>

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_03Courtney King / Jamie / Ava(guest)

SPEAKER_04Alisa Tresenov(guest)

SPEAKER_06Lada(guest)

SPEAKER_07Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_11Katie(guest)

SPEAKER_12Tabitha Chang(guest)

SPEAKER_13Annie (HR)(guest)

SPEAKER_14Levi(guest)

Key Moments

IntroAll 9 guests introduce themselves

Key MomentBrian's 7-point argument for not performing oral sex

ControversyFirst ever vomiting incident on the Whatever Podcast

Key MomentAva: drunk on Jose Cuervo, stabbed herself, beat up 3 people, jail

QuoteLada demands $10M/year minimum husband income

Topics Discussed

Guest Introductions

9 guests including Levi (male), Lada (18yo Russian rapper).

Jamie Relationship

Met boyfriend at 11, 3 kids, cheating history.

WoW Dating Analogy

Brian's World of Warcraft meta analogy for dating strategy.

Brian's Oral Sex 7 Arguments

Extended 7-point argument for not performing oral sex.

Vomiting Incident

First vomiting incident in show history.

Ava Stabbing/Jail

Stabbed herself drunk, beat up 3 people, jail.

Body Count Round

Range from 3 to 55+.

Transcript

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Alisa Tresenovof his comfort zone. >> All right. Gotcha. Uh you've been single for seven months. Any guys in the picture in any capacity? >> Uh not not really. It's been a little tough. Uh just cuz I'm I'm trying to

Alisa Tresenovmove on. >> Have you had a rebound? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Is he in the picture? >> No. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I made it clear from the get-go that I'm not looking for anything.

Tabitha Chang>> Gotcha. What about you? >> Um I'm married. We've been married for two years, together for three. >> How many kids? >> Two. >> Both with him? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> We have a 20-month old and eight-month-old.

Katie>> Gotcha. What about you? >> I am single as a Pringle and um I've been single for almost two years. >> Longest relationship?

Katie>> Um two and a half years. >> Is that the one that ended two years ago? >> No, it was my first ever relationship was two and a half years. >> How long was the relationship two years ago? >> Eight months. >> Eight months. Who broke up with who?

Brian Atlas>> I broke up with him. >> Longest relationship. Who broke up with who? Uh, I think I broke up with him as well. I was really young. >> Okay. Uh, you've been single for two years. Any guys in the picture since or

Katiein that time period? >> Uh, I've gone on dates. I've kind of chitchated, hung out with guys. Um, short fling, seeing if it works. Um, I

Katiewas with a guy, not really in a full-on relationship. um whenever I was living in Southeast Asia and we split and ended up we knew it wasn't going to be a

Katierelationship relationship cuz we were both uh expats in Bali and then we were splitting going our separate ways but we hung out really liked each other and it

Katiewas really good and then I recently was talking to someone for about a month or so and we went on a very long date and then come to find out it just

Katiepersonalitywise and kind of what we wanted out of life just didn't mesh. >> Uh, give us the quick story. When you say very long date, what do you mean? >> Uh, it was an 11-day long date. >> Hold on. >> What? >> 11 days.

Katie>> 11 days. >> So, you didn't leave each other for 11 days? >> Yeah. I ended up spending uh Thanksgiving with his family and also his dad's birthday with him and his family. >> Okay. Uh,

Katie>> so you're like at his house all this time? >> No, we So, okay. So, he still lives at home with his parents. Um, >> W and >> good for him. [laughter]

Katie>> And, uh, yeah, he's a couple years older than me. Um, but we got a hotel like Airbnb situation and we stayed there. I,

Katiethis was on my tour from I was driving from Texas to LA. just moved to LA and I stopped in Vegas to visit him and we were supposed to just go on a date and

Katiethen it was okay 3 days and then it was 5 days and then it was just kept on adding and adding and adding um and I didn't have anywhere to go for Thanksgiving. I was going to spend Thanksgiving by myself, so we just

Katieextended for me to spend Thanksgiving with his family. And um basically at at the end of it um yeah, I just didn't I didn't feel the oh my god, I'm obsessed with you like I did whenever we were

Katietalking over the phone. And I'd met him before several times. He had hired me as a photographer that I worked with and I'm friends with a sister and it's very kind of complex. But um >> wait, you So when you first were

Katiespeaking to him on the phone, you guys met on a dating app or something or >> No, no, he so I've known him and his sister. His sister is a model and a makeup artist and he's a photographer. >> Okay. So like industry you work together or something?

Katie>> Yeah, we met on a shoot about 3 years ago. And then he had hired me whenever I toured LA. And then I met him again on another shoot that his sister was doing my hair and makeup for. >> Okay. Um, and he was there shooting and

Katielearning from the photographer that was shooting us. And um, we just like seemed to really click in that moment, but whenever we spent 11 days together, we were not clicking.

Brian Atlas>> Not clicking. Well, um, hold on. >> You said when you spoke to him on the phone, you at that point, in that moment, you you felt obsessed. >> Yeah. So, we were uh, so, okay, let me

Katieback up a little bit, give you some more details here. So we October 6th I had my shoot, right? Yes. I talk with my hands. I cannot sit on the bird claw. >> The bird claw. I love it. >> The hen peek thing.

Katie>> My mom makes fun of me for doing that as well. So um I'll have to let her know >> that someone else did that. >> Dub you mom. [laughter] >> Yeah. So October 6th, um we saw each other at a shoot again and we had been

Katiejust kind of like chit cchatting back and forth on Instagram a little bit and he's really funny. He's a super super funny guy. We had the same sense of humor. And so I was joking with him about like, okay, you have to make me

Katielaugh all day on set. And so then we were giggly all day on set. And then I was like, I think I have a crush on you. And he was like, yeah, I'm smitten. The feelings mutual. >> You said that in person? >> No, I said that after I left. I sent him a message. Oh, you texted him.

Katie>> I did. Yeah. >> And um I was like, okay, but I'm really good friends with your sister. I have to ask your sister first if like this is okay if we go on a date. And so I texted her and she was like, "Oh my gosh, I'll ship you, too." Absolutely. because I

Katieknow that if you end up not really liking him or something that you'll tell him and be honest. >> So, I'm a very transparent person and she knows that. Um, >> okay. So, you spoke on the phone. >> So, for a month before we got to we

Katiescheduled out our date a month ahead and so we were just talking on the phone until I got to Vegas. >> How often would you talk on the phone? >> Every day. All day long. >> Oh my god. Yikes. >> Every day. All day long. And so we thought it was a really good match because of this.

Brian Atlas>> E, that's so I'm sorry. Sorry. So sorry. [laughter] Every you guys talked on the phone. >> Uh texted and spoke on the phone. Yeah. Most >> you texted and how often would you like multiple texts per day? >> Yeah.

Katie>> How often would you speak on or how long would you speak on the phone for? >> Um sometimes just a couple minutes and sometimes like an hour or two depending >> every day for a month. >> No, we didn't talk on the phone physically. Pick up the phone and call

Katieevery day. I don't have time for that. >> You Okay. But you did have >> you didn't you say you spoke on the phone every day? >> Uh, my bad. Let me rephrase. You texted and sometimes called.

Katie>> Okay. So, you called a couple times. >> Yeah, I called a couple times. >> We did a FaceTime call. Um, yeah. And we were both like super excited and we seemed like it was going to be great. We also wrote letters to each other, physical letters to each other, which was adorable >> cuz I made a joke about

Katie>> like emails or actual >> no actual handwritten handwritten curs. >> Did you do cursive? Mhm. >> Um, >> do they still teach cursive? I think >> I don't think so. They don't I don't think they still teach it. But >> does anybody here know how to write cursive? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I thought they didn't they get rid of it? I don't know.

Brian Atlas>> They do. >> I know how to write cursive. All right. Um, so okay. You wrote letters. Wow, that's a lot. Hold on. I have to play noise for this. >> I don't know, man. That sounds like a lot of work. [laughter] >> It was a lot of work. And we're both

Brian Atlasvery excited. Um, >> can I ask the panel a question really quick? And I'll let you finish your story, but >> I don't know if this makes me a terrible person. I could be [ __ ] smitten. I could

Brian Atlasbe head over heels with a girl. I don't think I'd even want to talk to her as frequently. Like I could this could be like the girl of my dreams and I'd still be like, [gasps] >> "Ah, get away from me a little bit." You know, I don't know if that makes me a

Brian Atlasbad person, >> but like a bit of space. Like even if I really like the girl, like I'm not going to be all up on her like that. Like I don't know. I don't know. >> My husband and I when we started

Tabitha Changtalking, we really only talked like every third day. >> Good. >> Like we just I'm horrible at answering and texting and >> love that. >> You know, >> we just >> would talk every third day. We didn't

Brian Atlashave to talk every single day. >> I like the girl to respond immediately to me, but she needs to give me 72 hours. That's the dynamic that I [laughter] like. I don't think you can expect a woman to simp for you but also

Annie (HR)like only text them once every 3 days. >> Oh, you can >> a simp a simpy woman is going to obsess with you, right? So, >> she can obsess. That's frequent >> at a safe distance. >> Then it's not obsessed.

Brian Atlas>> Well, no, no. I don't want like stalk or obsessed, but I want like Oh, yeah. I got you. Like, it's okay. Yeah, that's what I want. But anyway, sorry. Not to make it about me, [laughter] but

Brian Atlas>> No, tell us what you want. your story. Your story. Uh okay. So then you go on the you you meet him and then 11 days. >> 11 days. Yeah. >> Um so >> it was a lot. And I think what happened

Katiewas there was just a lot of buildup to this. There was a lot of excitement for whatever reason. Like I love his family. I love his sister. So there was a lot of, you know, daydreaming going on. I'm

Brian AtlasI'm a romantic and I watch a lot of Hallmark movies. Um >> Huh. Oh, you saw me. You saw me going for the stream deck, but go for it. >> I don't know what I was going to play. [laughter]

Katie>> I love him, too. It's okay. >> Uh, okay. Continue. I didn't find it in time. >> Um, so yeah, I think that there was just uh way too much. We both agree like we talked about it. There's way too much

Katiebuildup and in person like he cuz I'm typically that way. I'm typically don't text me so much. Don't text me all the time. I don't have time for this. I'm not going to text you every day all day

Katielong. And I did with him. So, I thought that was a good sign. But in person, I'm not really like that. In person, I'm very much like, "Okay, don't you have something else to go do?" Because I do.

KatieAnd um so he he didn't have something else to go do. And I was kind of like, "Nah." And then he was like, "No." And I was like, "Nah." And he didn't really

Katielike that because he actually is like that. Um wants to be that close and a little bit more. >> He wants to Yeah. days in a row at the beginning.

Katie>> It was It was a lot. It really was a lot. And then like spending Thanksgiving with his family, but his family was really sweet and like >> Yeah, there was just >> Oh, you had to meet the parents. That should be like 3 years in. [laughter]

Brian AtlasMeeting the parents. I don't want to meet your parents until we have kids. >> We can have [laughter] we can have kids then I can meet your parents. I want that needs to be delayed as long as possible. >> I had kids a few months in.

Brian Atlas>> Good for you. [laughter] My kind of girl. But uh that look that's okay. But it seems like you were the one who needed a bit of space and then this was just overwhelming the 11 days. I

Brian Atlasmean but you guys were having fun like I mean hooking up I'm assuming. >> Uh yeah we did have sex twice and then >> only Oh my only twice. >> Yeah. >> In 11 days. >> Yeah. Only twice. >> Like you weren't feeling it. He was What

Katiewas going on? >> Uh more me more I wasn't feeling it. Um I >> What's the breakdown? The breakdown is >> day one sex. >> We did. We did. Which I think was a bad idea looking back. >> That's totally fine. I'm fine with that.

Katie>> Well, no. I think it was a bad idea for our dynamic because what we should have done is have more conversation because >> you guys were you guys hung out for 11 days. >> I know. I know. But day one, we should have had more conversation because what

Katieended up happening is day like two and a like 2 and 1/2 days in, we like could not have a conversation in person and we were driving. I needed more skininc care products and we found a place that was carrying it. So, he was driving me to

Katiethe med spa where they had my skinincare and I just started breaking down crying and I was like, "What the [ __ ] is going on?" Like, "What is going on here? We're not having a conversation. Like, I feel like I've been here for, you know, two and a half days already, and like we're

Katienot really connecting and like I don't like we're sitting at coffee and it's just kind of like tea, like we can talk work, but like getting into the personal nitty-gritty just wasn't happening. It was really weird. Maybe your

Annie (HR)expectations were too high because of all the the communicating and all all the kind of obsession beforehand. >> That's exactly what happened. >> Yes. >> Hold on. So, okay. When it happens on

Ladaday one, don't you feel like it's not going to be real after that? Because >> fake news. >> Fake news. >> Fake news. >> What do you mean? >> The sex. If you hook up to the sex

Katiehappens on the first day, like you that's a bad sign. I think that's a bad sign. >> Not necessarily. I don't I don't necessarily think so because we knew each other for so long. Um and we'd been

Katietalking for about a month by the time I got there. And I think if you're two cons like consenting adults and you know you're decently stable in the in the head, you understand that like okay, you can do that and it doesn't mean that there's going to be any repercussions.

KatieAs whenever I was dating and I was younger, then like sex off the bat, yes. Or like first night, first day that I meet you, like yeah, I don't think that's necessarily going to go anywhere. But that's not always the case. My

Katiefriends Savannah and Dylan, shout out you guys. Love y'all. Um, they pretty much did that and um, they've been together two and a half years and they're about to buy a house together. >> So, okay. First day you guys hook up and

Katiethen when was you said it happened twice. When was the second time? >> I think maybe four or five days after that we did again.

Brian AtlasYou spend 11 days together. >> I don't know. I feel like you got to that. >> Okay. But so the second day y'all were driving in the car and it was silent. There was silence and you you didn't like it. Well, I think that's fine.

KatieThat's fine. >> Silence is I'm focused on the road. Let me drive. >> No. No. It wasn't It wasn't that It wasn't that we were silent while driving. It was that at dinner at while we were hanging out in the apartment, while we were driving, while we were

Katiesitting and having coffee, all of these things, like the conversation just was not flowing naturally >> and that tells me that something's off or also what I broke down is he was

Katieextremely nervous. I'm not a nervous person. And so I think that that kind of that personality difference wasn't meshing very well. And I was like,

Katie>> what's the problem here? like let's just have a conversation like what it was just weird. It was like we were sitting there and it was the silence was awkward. It was not comfortable.

Brian Atlas>> But did he did he agree with your assessment like when you brought up hey there's a problem. Did was he like oh no I think everything's fine. >> No he agreed. >> Oh he agreed. >> We we were on the same page. We were on

Katiethe same page. >> That was the second day you guys had that convo. >> Two and a half days. >> You guys got cut your losses 11 day. And then you proceeded to hang out for another 9 days. You got to come. >> It was already booked. The hotel was already booked. The or the Airbnb or

Katiewhatever. It was uh Palms in Vegas. So it's like the hotel Airbnb apartment thing. >> Wait, you booked 11 11 days. >> Yeah. I think that's an impulsive move.

Brian AtlasLike impulsive. >> Yeah. Yeah, I think the you know 48 hours the first like >> maybe you know there was some distance right between you two >> during the 11 days. >> Well like you guys didn't live in the

Katiesame city right? >> No there was a lot of Yeah. So I was living in Texas and then my tour from Texas to LA cuz I drove was a month nearly a month long.

Katie>> Okay. So, I stopped in other major cities um and booked work with clients and stuff for like the last time that I was going to be there for a while and then drove to >> Yeah, I think you got to for that first

Brian Atlasone. >> That first one like if you guys are in different cities, 11 days, that's a that's a commit. That's a lot. I think 48 hours is good for a first time. >> That's what we were planning to begin

Katiewith. >> Second time 72. And then if it's really good, then maybe you can go for a week. 11 days on the first go though too much. >> It wasn't it it wasn't the initial plan

Katiebut it's what happened and I I think in the end it was good because we realized that after 11 days we still were like not really clicking the way that we

Katieshould have been. Um so we were able to kind of end it after that. I did go on um I uh a client flew me to Vegas for work for booking. Yeah.

Katie>> And we went on one more date, a second date, a regular date. I told him regular date this time, just like go out to dinner like normal people and he agreed and he took me to a really nice spot and we had a delicious dinner and then still

Katieit was kind of the same. So we decided that we're just not going to go on another date >> after the this was a separate trip >> after the 11 days in a row. >> Mhm. >> Was there no chemistry in the bedroom also?

Courtney King / Jamie / Ava>> Not really. >> I have a question actually. Was he more talkative like the first day before you had sex or was it just silent as well?

Katie>> He was more talkative in general over the phone. >> Oh, >> and in person he's he was a lot more quiet >> and people are like >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, >> relationship status?

Brian Atlas>> Single. >> Longest relationship? >> Oh, I think it was like a year and a half coming on two years. >> Year and a half. How long have you been single for?

Courtney King / Jamie / Ava>> Um, we broke up of June 2024. >> Year a year and a half ago then? >> Yeah. I've had like talking stages since then, but they've all failed.

Brian Atlas>> They've all failed. Is there currently a talking stage situationship? Anything in the picture? >> Nope. >> When's the most recent there's been anything in the picture?

Courtney King / Jamie / Avalike a week ago it ended. >> How long were you seeing that guy? >> So, we were talking um we were just like texting back and forth for a couple

Courtney King / Jamie / Avaweeks and then I actually saw him in Utah and he decided that I wasn't what he wanted because I wasn't a member of

Brian Atlasthe LDS church. >> Okay. You're you're a Mormon although you don't like that term anymore. Is that correct? I'm sorry. >> Mormon. >> It doesn't matter.

Brian Atlas>> I I heard they don't like the Mormon term anymore. They prefer >> latter day >> latter day science. Yeah. >> Okay. So, you're a member of the church.

Courtney King / Jamie / Ava>> Not currently now. >> Oh, you got excommunicated. >> No, no, I've never joined. >> Oh, wait. Hold on. >> I'm just Christian.

Courtney King / Jamie / Ava>> Wait, am I misunderstanding here? He didn't want to date me because I wasn't an active member of the church. >> I'm sorry. I misunderstood. I thought you were the Okay, I apologize. >> That's what he said. Actually, he texted me.

Courtney King / Jamie / Ava>> He didn't want to date you. He was Mormon. >> Yeah. >> And he didn't want to date you because you weren't Mormon. Okay, I understand. >> Well, I think I don't think it was that reason. I don't think he was like completely honest with me. Maybe cuz he

Brian Atlasfirst started with I just don't miss you. >> And so maybe he just >> had you guys hooked up. No, >> nothing. >> No. >> Oh, okay. Um [sighs]

Brian AtlasAll right. But that that's the most recent thing anyways. >> Yeah. >> This Mormon dude. >> Mhm. >> All right. You were you said you were in a two-year relationship. Uh you you're a Christian, though, right? >> Yes.

Brian Atlas>> What denomination? >> Non-denominational. >> Non-denominational. Okay. How does your Christianity inform your relationship pursuits? >> Every in every aspect possible. Are you waiting until marriage? >> Yes.

Brian Atlas>> Are you a virgin? >> I don't want to talk about your body on a podcast. >> You don't Well, it's not about your body necessarily. It's would be past behavior, but I'll take that as a no then. Um >> Okay, that's

Courtney King / Jamie / Ava>> You are waiting until marriage though. >> Yes. >> How long have you been waiting until marriage for or for? This isn't I'm sorry, but this is not something that >> Yeah, this is just one circumstance that I don't want to talk about because as a

Courtney King / Jamie / Avagodly woman, I don't think that talking about my body like that on a podcast is >> glorifying God in any way. >> Well, it would be the truth, right? Isn't speaking the truth glorifying God?

Courtney King / Jamie / AvaYeah, in an aspect, but when it comes to I mean we in the Bible it talks about how our bodies are temples and so you shouldn't be like I just shouldn't be talking about that for th hundreds of thousands of people to hear. Well, I

Brian Atlasdon't think that there would be any actual Chris I I understand like I by the way, you don't have to share if you don't want to, but I don't think there's anything biblically speaking or that

Brian Atlaswould preclude or prevent a Christian woman from aside from her own preference, of course, which is valid, but there's no Christian component to

Courtney King / Jamie / Avanot sharing that. Just want to be clear on that. I think it's completely inappropriate and unclassy for a woman to talk about their people, like people they've had sex with, if they're a

Courtney King / Jamie / Avavirgin or not. I don't think it matters. I think it's super inappropriate. >> Um, >> how do you feel about being here? >> How do I feel about being here? >> Yeah. >> In what way? Like >> I mean like

Lada>> what's your point? >> Like from what you stated because that's like I mean we speak a lot about that. I was just like >> I think she's like, "Did you know what you were going going into signing up for this?" >> Yeah. It doesn't make me uncomfortable with you guys talking about it anyway.

Brian Atlas>> Cool. >> If that's what you mean. Yeah. No. >> Yeah. I mean, you obviously you if you don't have, by the way, you don't have to like speak about specific sex acts,

Brian Atlasbut I don't think, for example, uh even on a podcast, even in public, a Christian woman saying whether or not she's a virgin and leaving it that, I

Brian Atlasdon't need to know sexual graphic details, but just simply stating whether you're a virgin or not, I don't think that this would be in any sort at all in contravention of Christian ethics or

Courtney King / Jamie / AvaChristian morality. But do you think it is? >> I do. Yeah. Because I think that when it comes to your body talking about if you're a virgin or not or if you're waiting for marriage or not, I think

Courtney King / Jamie / Avathat's completely between you and God and your husband or wife. Not between you and everybody else on this planet. >> Okay. Um >> so is this something you would discuss with a boyfriend then who might be

Brian Atlasasking these questions from you? >> Yes, but not hundreds of thousands of people. Well, not even a boyfriend. Would you, let's say you were going to go on a date with a guy, would you tell

Courtney King / Jamie / Avahim if he asked? >> I mean, if it's a pressing matter, then then yes. But I wouldn't say that I'm going on dates with men that are asking me those questions.

Brian Atlas>> Hold on. You're waiting until marriage. Wouldn't it be perfectly within from your own worldview and your own Christian belief set for a Christian man to desire to date a virgin woman? What

Brian Atlaswould actually be wrong from your perspective then for a Christian man to ask a Christian woman whether or not she's a virgin if that's a metric that he cares about for religious reasons?

Brian Atlas>> I don't think it's wrong at all. That's not what I meant by that. >> Well, but you seem to have some sort of objection to a Christian man asking a Christian woman. And I think it's a completely valid if you're a Christian

Brian Atlasman or even a Christian a Christian woman could have the same standard as a Christian woman. I only uh you only want to date a man who's a virgin, who's who's chased, whatever.

Brian AtlasNothing wrong with asking that question, but you seem to object to it. So, you would willingly uh withhold that information from a guy, a Christian man who wants to date you? >> No, I just said no, I wouldn't. If they

Courtney King / Jamie / Avaasked me the question, then I would respond. first date. >> I mean, sure if they asked on the first date. I've just never had that happen to me before. So, I'm not >> It didn't happen with the the one that ended a week ago, the Mormon guy. He never asked.

Courtney King / Jamie / Ava>> No, he never asked. >> I think if you were a virgin, it would be different because I feel like you would want to go, just from my perspective, I think you would

Courtney King / Jamie / Avawant to push that, oh, you should wait till marriage and this is you can still be Christian and wait till marriage, you don't have to have sex. It's kind of giving that you aren't a virgin. So, I feel like you kind of said your answer

Alisa Tresenovin that. >> She Yeah. Do you want to respond to that? I don't know. >> Could just be a situation thing like depending the environment that she's in is whether or not she wants to divulge such information. >> I think we understand that she doesn't

Brian Atlaswant to share it publicly. That's totally fine. My I I don't have an issue with her preference not wanting to share. I think my my angle of

Brian Atlasuh conversation here is more so there's not actually anything uh in scripture biblically or within Christian ethics or virtue or whatever that would prevent

Brian Atlasuh it might be your preference but there's nothing that actually would prevent like a a Christian woman coming onto a public platform and saying I'm a virgin. I'm not a virgin. I don't think

Brian Atlasthat that's like you mentioned your body is a temple or whatever. I'm not sure specifically what you're referencing there, but there wouldn't be a contradiction. Like you wouldn't be more or less of a Christian if you revealed your status as a virgin

Levior not. >> Correct me if I'm wrong, Brian, but I think what you're trying to say is that there's nothing sinful about dulging that information. >> Correct. Uh, essentially, yes.

Courtney King / Jamie / AvaDo you think it's sinful to to share that? I mean, you don't Yeah. I wouldn't say necessarily sinful. I like I said, I just think it's extremely

Courtney King / Jamie / Avainappropriate and very unclassy for a woman to talk about such vulgar things. >> So like shameful. So like you >> Well, I don't think >> I wouldn't say shame either cuz that's the same thing as basically

Annie (HR)>> not so much. >> I don't think so. It's like asking your weight. It's an inappropriate thing. It's not sinful, but it's like an uncomfortable question like kind of thing. >> It's very different than weight. I just

Courtney King / Jamie / Avafeel like as a woman that's very Christian and like I hold that godly woman over my head like that title. I

Alisa Tresenovshouldn't be talking about my body in that way for people to like then >> but that doesn't mean you're disrespecting your body or yourself by discussing. It's just a matter of

Alisa Tresenovcomfort and how you how confident you are in yourself. I'm not saying what you're how you're feeling about this is wrong, but it's like everyone who spoke

Alisa Tresenovprior to you, we have no shame, but that's because we're comfortable speaking about it. It doesn't mean it's sinful or anything like that. There's a

Brian Atlasdifference. the term you used vulgar. Uh, I think if you were speaking about like specific sex acts or like oral sex or what you did if like

Brian Atlaswhatever her [ __ ] opening line to the vulgar her now husband with three kids or whatever uh not husband boyfriend um that a bit vulgar but I think like a

Brian AtlasChristian woman who sat here and said you know um I'm not a virgin but I am waiting until marriage. >> I wouldn't put that I wouldn't be like whoa that was really vulgar what you just said. Now, I understand people can

Brian Atlashave their preference and be like, "As a Christian, I'd rather not share certain details about my life." I think that that's okay. My primary uh back and forth with you is just I

Brian Atlasguess I contend with your categorization of it being vulgar or something that is perhaps unbecoming of a Christian woman to say. I don't think it would be unbecoming of a Christian woman to simply say, and

Brian Atlasagain, I'm totally fine with you not sharing it, but this is a bit of a separate side conversation. If a Christian woman came on the show and is like, you know, I am waiting for marriage, but um I am not a virgin and

Brian Atlasleft it at that. I I don't know if I would be like I I can't imagine Christians or being up in arms about it or viewing that as a vulgar thing to say. >> I do. Is that fair?

Courtney King / Jamie / Ava>> I have a question for you. Well, let's let her respond and then you can ask your question. >> No, I totally understand where you're coming from with that. It's just >> the way I think. I mean, I think of it

Courtney King / Jamie / Avaas like if my grandma is watching this, >> she's like a saint. She's very extremely Christian, very classy. Like, these are things that I wouldn't even talk about my family with. >> Sure. Um, and then you said you're

Courtney King / Jamie / Avanon-denominational. Um, is it Do you go to church? >> I do. Is the church non-denominational that you go to? >> Um, it's kind of complicated. I haven't

Courtney King / Jamie / Avareally talked about this with my family yet, but this morning I went to the LDS church. >> Wait, >> it's Sunday. >> Okay. So, so

Brian Atlasthe guy you were seeing a week ago or whatever, he didn't want to be with you because you weren't LDS, >> right? >> But you are actively going to an LDS church, >> right? I I didn't disclose that

Courtney King / Jamie / Avainformation to him because I didn't want him to think that I was converting for him, if that makes sense. So, >> you were already considering? >> Yeah. Beforehand.

Brian Atlas>> Okay. But so, prior to starting to go to an LDS church, were you going to a non denominational church? >> Yes.

Brian Atlas>> Okay. All right. Um, [snorts] so but you so you are converting to LDS. Do I have that correct? >> Yes.

Lada>> Okay. Uh, one quick question. Can can women be priests or pastors? >> Absolutely not. >> Okay. You had a question for >> Honestly, you partially kind of answered

Ladamy question, but I wanted to ask you if you like how much do you care about other people's opinions? Like you said you don't feel comfortable because a lot of people are watching. Like how do you

Courtney King / Jamie / Avathink you care a lot about people's opinion? Like outsiders, like people you don't know. >> I wouldn't say I care about what other people think of me. I more care about how I hold myself and how I care myself. >> Relationship status?

Annie (HR)>> Sorry. >> I'm in a relationship about a year and a half now. >> Longest relationship? >> About two years. >> All right. Uh what about you? >> I'm married. Been married for over four years. A little bit over.

Brian Atlas>> Any kids? >> No. Do you plan to have kids? >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. That's everybody's relationship status. We have one chat here I'm going to let come through. Then I have a few follow-up questions. Then

Brian Atlaswe are going to get into some segments. All right. We have Chaw. I'm going to have Can I have you read these into into the mic? Into the mic. >> It's kind of juicy.

Courtney King / Jamie / Ava>> Chaw XD donated $100. This Brian is what we call a chronic manipulator. She's saying all these things manipulators say for anyone who thinks deportations

Brian Atlasare about race. This is proof it's not. Deport her. >> So this is this came in while you were speaking. Chair 2. Um >> so that's Do you want to respond to Chaw? >> Can I I did not focus on that. Wasn't >> Oh my god. All right.

Brian Atlas>> I wasn't focusing. >> He's saying you want to be deported. >> Uh he he called you a chronic manipulator. Uh and he thinks you should be deported. That's so ch do you want to why why do

Brian Atlasyou want her deported? >> You want to provide fun >> provide clarification on why is it about the manipulation or whatever? But um do you want to respond to the manipulation allegations?

Lada>> I already have allegations on me. Okay. >> Oh [ __ ] Crazy. Do you want to respond? [laughter] >> Okay, hold on. Um how do I Let's see.

Brian AtlasCan I read the message? I'm just >> I just I have to like actually that's [ __ ] insane deeply. >> That's a yellow card for you. [ __ ] yellow carded. She read it and then I pulled it up a second time. You got to be pay and you said I wasn't paying

Ladaattention. >> Okay. >> How are you deported? Let me just confirm this with myself. He wants me to to be deported because I manipulate guys.

Lada>> That seems to be the case. [laughter] >> Okay. Well, okay. Mhm. Fun. So honestly, okay, how I would respond to that? I don't [clears throat] think that's

Ladaappropriate. Like, how do you you don't have any control over my life. [laughter] Like I don't And the sense that I'm controlling

Ladapeople also is not true. Like manipulation is all a mind game. Like everything's in your brain. You can control your own brain. You cannot hang out with me if you want. Not >> you call two guys you're like you said

Annie (HR)that you're a girlfriend to two guys. You said you call yourself a girlfriend to two of these three guys. I think >> I don't think that's grounds for trans or for deportation. >> Not for deportation. [laughter] This is just talking about your your manipulation tactics that are affecting

Brian Atlasother people. >> Do any of these guys who you're seeing do they pay your bills? >> No. O >> do they give you gifts? >> No. >> Do they send you money? >> No. I don't trust people like seriously.

LeviOkay. What does trusting people have to do with that? >> I I think it's past experience. Like I don't trust people because past experience. >> Um >> can you elaborate on that? You've said that like 50 times. What What don't you

Levitrust other people when you're the one that's manipulating other men and you're the one that's lying and you're the one that's cheating and you're the one that's being deceptive >> causing the the trust issues for other

Ladapeople? Maybe um if I kind of like dig deep in like my own psychological issues. I don't know. Maybe it's me

Ladabeing like cheated on before when [snorts] I was younger that made me kind of like a shitty person. I I I'm not a shitty person though. Like >> was it Vlad? >> No.

Brian Atlas>> Cuz you were you were living in Russia till you were 15. So back in you know 15 high school in Russia or whatever. Uh, freaking Vlad or I don't know. >> I I don't think Vlad

Brian Atlas>> or Vitali >> or Ptor. >> Peter. No. >> How do you say how do you say Peter in Russian? >> Oh, you Yeah. You're also >> Is she >> She's She speaks Russian, right?

Annie (HR)>> Yeah. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. >> All right. So, you got cheated on and then >> So, you're going to take it down on other guys. What happened to you in the past instead of working on yourself? >> Um, okay. I'm I'm I'm trying. Okay.

Brian AtlasWorking on >> All right. Uh >> but yeah, that's still not a point to the port music. Uh-uh. You're not doing that. >> Uh you're a singer. Can you for 15 seconds? Can we hear you sing something?

Lada>> Yeah, I can sing one of my new singles. Uh honestly, yeah, I have Spotify, Apple Music, etc. My artist name is Me. It's just me. Um I can sing Call Me Please.

SPEAKER_05It's my one of my new songs. All right, y'all. Ready? >> Oh, yeah. >> Call me. I need to speak right now.

SPEAKER_05Don't want to show me [singing] love. Just got to be around. N call me please.

Brian AtlasDon't have to show me love baby just around. >> All right, there it is. There is the singing. Thank you very much for that.

Brian AtlasAppreciate it. Uh really quick just because we have uh we have one person from outside the United States. Anybody here born outside the United States? >> Philippines.

Brian Atlas>> Israel. >> Israel. Russia. Uh and anybody How about your parents? Were they born outside the United States? >> No. >> Any like nationality? Like are you Puerto Rican or something?

Brian Atlas>> I'm Italian. >> Oh. [laughter] Oh [ __ ] >> Italian. All right. >> Oh no [ __ ] It's, you know, with the Italian sometimes you can't always tell. >> Can't. >> All right. Um, so, okay. I have a

Brian Atlasquestion for the for Okay, we got Russia, we got Israel, and we got the Philippines. All right. Imagine a completely neutral hypothetical

Brian Atlassituation where neither the United States or the country of your origin uh is the aggressor. Neither has done anything unethical. There's no moral

Brian Atlasdimension. Just a conflict that exists in that valueneutral scenario. To which country is your allegiance? So

Ladastarting with you, the United States or Russia? >> Unfortunately, the United States for >> fortunately or unfortunately? >> I would say well probably unfortunately.

Lada>> Why is that unfortunate? >> Because that makes me kind of like like fake because I was I was brought up citizenship. How does that make you fake? >> Because I was born in Russia. But

Lada>> you have citizenship in the United States of America as well. >> Yeah. >> So how does that make you fake? I feel fake because I was brought up in Russia, but I would pick United States over Russia because

Brian Atlas>> Do you have uh Oh, well, you do have citizenship here. >> Yeah. >> Oh, okay. All right. Um, what about you? Israel or the United States? >> Israel. >> I have dual citizenship. >> Are you here?

Brian Atlas>> Uh, you were born there? >> I was born there. Um, >> and then when did you move to the United States? >> When I was a baby. >> How? Um, so wait, wait, hold on, hold on. Uh, you are held

Brian Atlas>> I'm 28. >> 28. Of your 28 years, how much of that time has been spent in the United States? >> Majority of it. >> How much?

Alisa Tresenov>> 26 and a half, I'd say. Like living here. Yeah. >> And just so can you explain why you pick Israel over the United States?

Alisa Tresenov>> Uh, my family's there. I spent a lot of my childhood there. married. >> You very No, you spent most of your childhood here.

Alisa Tresenov>> I spent summers in Israel. I live in the US after I moved from Israel, but I

Alisa Tresenovvisited and I would go there for long periods of time. So, childhood spent like where did you spent your childhood? You know, like summer camp, you go visit

Alisa Tresenovyour grandparents in another state. Like I would go visit my family. >> Well, in the The summer is one season. That's a couple months, >> right?

Brian Atlas>> It sounds like you said 26 and a half of your 28 years you spent living in the United States. >> So most of your >> physical address was

Brian Atlas>> well not just your physical address, your where you were actively living. >> Mhm. >> So I don't understand this physical address component of the conversation. >> I'm not understanding your question

Brian Atlaseither. Sorry. But why are you saying you're >> Were you also living in the United States while having a physical address in the United States? >> Yes. >> So I don't understand why

Alisa Tresenovyou would say physical address. >> Well, because I live in the US after we moved here. We've lived here. Yeah. >> And then during the summers, my parents

Alisa Tresenovwould send us to live with my grandparents and be there for like a month, two months at a time. If your allegiance is to Israel, why don't you live there? Why do you live here? >> Work.

Levi>> So, you want to reap the benefits of the United States, but you won't back them in the case of >> I never said that. >> You did. You said that Israel is where your allegiance lies. >> Even if you didn't say that, you are currently reaping the benefits of being

Annie (HR)in America. Like the clothes you're wearing, the place you're living, it's all because America's provided this for you and you're still going to say Israel. >> Wait, hold on. I just to be charitable here. People in Israel also have clothes.

Annie (HR)>> No, but the things that you have here, like you're living your life here. Everything that you're you're like doing here is like are or getting here is because of America. And but you're America's given you so much. Basically,

Alisa Tresenovwhat I'm saying and you're still going to choose Israel? >> Yes. >> Can you not work in Israel? >> Uh I would need to I think I can. I have dual citizenship so I can if I want. >> You were born there. Then why don't you

Brian Atlasgo work there? Wait, were you born? >> Because I'm choosing not to. >> Were you born there? >> You're choosing not to because your life question first, please. >> Were you born here or there? >> I was born in Israel in Nathan. >> Okay. You were born there. >> Yeah.

Brian Atlas>> Okay. Um Huh. It's interesting.

Alisa TresenovOkay. Um Yeah. I mean, >> I think it's just I'm not ashamed of

Alisa Tresenovwhere I'm from and what my background is. And um I appreciate what the US has

Alisa Tresenovdone for my family. There was a choice with moving here. Um and I'm not uh what's the word?

Alisa Tresenovignoring the opportunities that uh my family was provided coming here. Um but

Alisa TresenovI am choosing right now to stay in the US for work and I know that the let's say film and TV in in Israel they've got

Levisome pretty good shows. So if I wanted to I could in theory but I'm choosing to stay here right now. because you make more money and you have maybe better work schedule, you have better work opportunities.

Alisa Tresenov>> Um, I'm not sure necessarily. I'm a freelancer in film and TV and right now work in the US is actually really bad. Um, a lot of productions are moving out

Alisa Tresenovof the country to because it costs less crew, permits, all that. Um, so it's just honestly it's a whole lot of

Alisa Tresenovfiguring out whether or not I'm going to try to continue making a career here or go elsewhere where productions are going.

Alisa Tresenov>> So what's the problem with living in Israel? >> There's no problem. I'm just >> Then why don't you live there? >> Similar to why you chose to go to the LDS church. It's a choice.

Courtney King / Jamie / Ava>> Oh, d I mean, sure. Yeah. But you weren't born here. And if you're going to side with Israel in conflict with America, then why would you live in America? >> You said there's no conflict. >> Okay. Wait, there's clearly conflict

Brian Atlaswith Israel right now. >> In his question, there was no conflict, though. >> No, I said a conflict exists, but there's not a there's not an aggressor necessarily. >> One side isn't necessarily being a

Brian Atlasbully. It's a morally neutral hypothetical situation. So it'd be very like for example even a US citizen let's say we were just like you know what um we kind of just want Cancun and we're

Brian Atlasgoing to invade the entirety of Mexico so we can take all their resources. I think US citizens could come to some like reasonable objection to be like hey we're the aggressors here. This is a war

Brian Atlasof you know this is a war of uh what's the right word? Ah it's blanking on me like conquest. But there's another thing when you're just after uh the spoils of

Brian Atlaswar basically. So I I think but in a situation where we just make it completely neutral that can take away some of the objections uh a citizen might otherwise have. Also just to be

Brian Atlasclear I think when it comes to in terms of your political allegiance or loyalty this doesn't mean that you can't still have uh you know family ties. you

Brian Atlascouldn't still uh you know care about the culture of the other country or whatever. But uh it is kind of interesting when

Brian Atlasuh citizens of the United States who have lived here for most of their life have an allegiance that supersedes their allegiance to the United States. I think

Brian Atlasyou can have a dual allegiance in the sense that uh removing a conflict between the United States and Israel. Let's say Israel had a conflict with I

Brian Atlasdon't know um Egypt or something. I don't know whatever you could be like well in this case I definitely side with Israel over you know Egypt of course. I

Alisa Tresenovthink I'm I my answer was primarily just that I am I'm proud of where I'm from and I don't hide it. Um >> are you proud of being also an American

Alisa Tresenovthough? >> I mean there sounds like a no. [laughter]

Alisa Tresenov>> It's a it's a hard question because and I've had this discussion many times. um

Alisa Tresenovwe moved here but I wasn't necessarily raised in a American

Alisa Tresenovum way. Um my education is American. I speak English but at home it's not necessarily

Alisa Tresenovlike I still kind of grew up with a background like a Russian a Russian and Jewish background. >> All right. Hold on. Uh can I ask you something? So you said I mean you said

Ladait like twice I think or three times. You said you're not ashamed of where you're from. So by a person not choosing

Ladathe country of her his origin over the country they're living in is that you consider that being ashamed? >> No. No at all. Like when you said you

Alisa Tresenovpick the US unfortunately I don't think that's an unfortunate uh decision. you know. Um, but I think >> Okay.

SPEAKER_00>> Duras_M donated $200. Questions to chair. One, one, how is it your parents love him if they know he

SPEAKER_00cheats on you? Two, is he around? I.e. present father. If so, in what capacity? Three, are you ethnically bunnies? Therefore, go home.

Courtney King / Jamie / Ava>> It meant bunnies should be Jewish. I don't know why Streamlabs does that, but >> no, I am not ethnically Jewish. I just have a big nose like one. Um, what would >> Oh boy. All right. >> You do not have a big nose.

Courtney King / Jamie / Ava>> It's like the same shape. >> All right, continue on with your answer, please. >> I forgot what the beginning of the question said. Oh, how do they love him? um they have spent multiple years

Courtney King / Jamie / Avagetting to know him and understanding that just because somebody makes horrible horrible decisions doesn't mean that they are concrete a terrible person for the rest

Courtney King / Jamie / Avaof their life and people can grow and change and they've seen me grow and change and I've also cheated on him admitted it was wrong and then worked

Courtney King / Jamie / Avatowards why I did it and not ever doing it So, how many times that happened? >> Which like >> trust me a person after they did a mistake is >> super

Courtney King / Jamie / Ava>> um >> super married. >> The first time he cheated, I got over it. And the first couple times he

Levicheated, I stayed. Um I don't know. I just I haven't trusted him since the beginning. So, I don't I don't know. >> I think the other part of that question

Tabitha Changwas asking about your dad. Like is he present in your life? Was he a good influence? >> Oh, I think it was it was about my dad or about him my >> boyfriend as a father. >> The baby. >> I think I asked if he was present.

Courtney King / Jamie / Ava>> Maybe children's life during the one year. It was more of visits and phone calls cuz he didn't live with me for when we were separated. But now he's fully present. We live together. It's pretty much back to normal.

Brian Atlas>> Okay. Uh going to you, you're from the Philippines. Born in the Philippines. >> That's right. >> Uh did you immigrate here or? >> Yeah, when I was 8 years old. >> Okay. Do you have citizenship? >> Uh in America, not in Philippines

Brian Atlasanymore. >> Okay. But you went through like a naturalization process. >> Okay. Uh where do your loyalties lie? >> America all the way.

Brian Atlas>> All right. There you have it, folks. There you have it. I also actually happened to not have been born in the United States. I was born in uh Europe. I was born born in France and then I my

Brian Atlasmom although I do have dual citizenship because my mom's American uh so it's not like I'm an immigrant or whatever. I moved to the United States when I was five and although it would pain me

Brian Atlasdearly if the United States and France were to even though they're allies I I mean hypothetically if they were to enter into some military conflict my loyalties even though I lived there for

Brian Atlasthe first 5 years of my life uh basically consecutively uh my loyalties undeniably are to America first and uh [sighs] of course I wouldn't want there to be a

Brian Atlasconflict between France I have family in France I care about them very much. I have some cultural roots in France and I wish good things for France. There's

Brian Atlassome pretty bad things happening in France related to politics and basically the country is being taken

Brian Atlasover and um I I would wish to see a return to uh a better state of affairs

Brian Atlasin France. Uh but uh in any case if there my my primary loyalty my first loyalty is to the United States.

Brian Atlas>> I have a question. How much of your upbringing was uh of French? [snorts] >> Fran French was my first language. I certainly lived there for longer and for most of my childhood as you would say

Brian Atlaslonger than uh you spent in uh your country of origin. Um, my >> I'm just kidding. >> My dad's French. My My dad's French. I

Brian Atlashave dual citizenship. My uh my dad's he's started speaking French a bit more, but he would still speak French uh at

Brian Atlashome sometimes. And um I've visited France since. Uh but um

Alisa Tresenovyeah, I mean >> this is merely like for anybody who's not from here, how much curiosity, how much of your of their upbringing has been um USbased American versus where

Tabitha Changthey're from. It's >> I think that's what's cool about America is that we you can >> Yeah. >> embrace like where your family actually came from, but you should still kind of

Tabitha Changback the country that you live in, you know, cuz you get to reap the rewards of [snorts] practicing your religion and embracing you came from Israel. That's

Courtney King / Jamie / Avafantastic. You know, you guys got to come here and feel that, but you know, you live here. >> I have a question. If a war were to

Courtney King / Jamie / Avastart, would you go back to Israel? >> Um, well, it's it's been it's been considered. Yeah.

Alisa Tresenov>> Okay. So, are you only like the only thing you like about America is the work force basically? >> No, there's there's many things I like

Alisa Tresenovabout the US. I just the question was to pick one or the other and I can't say I

Alisa TresenovI'm happy to live here and I'm happy to be where I'm from and I'm just there's

Alisa Tresenovno disrespect towards what I was able to achieve and and use here. >> Okay. What do you not like about America? Do I not I never said I didn't like the

Brian AtlasUS. >> I mean maybe like something specific or small. >> I think um >> I I don't Well, I mean again to be charitable to her uh I don't think you have to dislike America.

Brian AtlasI don't think her position necessarily entails that she dislikes well I mean I think even like warmblooded patriot American patriots can be like I dislike XYZ about America. You know, it's

Alisa Tresenovinteresting actually just to bring it back to the point of this podcast, which is dating. Um I what was interesting to me, I've seen this in experience with uh

Alisa Tresenovwhen it comes to dating or going out on dates with guys, is that what I've noticed is American guys aren't too um

Alisa Tresenovthey don't really feel comfortable about talking about their feelings and they like to beat around the bush. And me with like being what my parents are from Russia, being with a Russian background,

Alisa Tresenovbeing very blunt and just getting to the point of what's on your mind. I think it's uh it's been interesting to kind of figure out a dynamic of understanding how one person is is comfortable

Alisa Tresenovspeaking about what's on their mind versus not, which is was a problem with my my ex as well. >> It's the other way around. >> I was very I'm a very blown person. That's how I picture it. [laughter]

Brian Atlas>> Uh, all right. Well, moving moving off of uh that topic. Um, but yeah, just I guess final I don't know if I already mentioned this, but um

Brian AtlasI think you can having a primary having allegiance to the United States isn't a rejection of like a past origin or a p like your another culture. Like for

Brian Atlasexample, if you if you came here and you're Mexican and you're legal, you're a legal uh immigrant, I think your allegiance should be to the United States, just as an example, using Mexico. But that doesn't mean you have

Brian Atlasto reject your heritage. You have to reject your culture. I do think you should assimilate, but you know, you can be like, you can still have family. You can go back and visit. It's not like you

Brian Atlashave to be like a belligerent or aggressive towards your past nation or culture, but I do think that there should be a primary allegiance uh

Brian Atlasthat does exist. But anyways, moving it on to uh Okay, I I think I had a question for you. Something about all these guys you're dating. I don't know. Um uh you know what? We're going to do

Brian Atlassomething a little different here. So often times I I ask people to what disagreements they have with me, but I actually I just want to show you um

Brian Atlas>> show the the prompt list, but show the graphic image. And I'm going to redo this. I had chat GPT generate it, but it went to it kind of is shitty. I need to redo it. I did it like last minute last night. So I just have a notepad that

Brian Atlaswe're going to do. I'm going to show you guys a list of all my positions and >> the infograph. Show the infographic first. Just I don't know for for [ __ ] it. Whatever. So, I don't know. Chat GPT

Brian Atlasgenerated this. Uh, so you can take a quick gander. Scroll all the way down. Why not? Chat GPT [ __ ] it up though. They totally [ __ ] it up. Anyways, whatever. Um, chat GPT did this now.

Brian AtlasJust show us the list. Show us the list. All right. And as I read these, I want you guys to

Brian Atlastell me if there's anything here you disagree with. So one, body count matters. Two, these are my positions. Past matters. Three, women

Brian Atlascannot be incel involuntarily celibate. So maybe let really quick just on three. I don't think women can be females. I don't think women can be involuntarily

Courtney King / Jamie / Avacelibate. Any objections from anybody? You you object. Okay. Why is that? Well, I mean, I've met women that just >> they're like >> they're ugly.

Courtney King / Jamie / Ava>> Okay. No, stereotypically like homeschooled like children and that are that don't have any social skills, don't get out, their parents don't teach them about them sort of stuff. Like I feel like they're involuntarily celibate, if that makes sense.

Courtney King / Jamie / Ava>> Women or men? >> I mean, both. It goes both ways. I do agree that it's like primarily men, but there are definitely women that I have met that have zero idea about like sex

Brian Atlasor any of that. >> Involuntarily celibate is not having sex, but not by >> so involuntarily.

Brian AtlasSo that would essentially mean despite reasonable efforts to try to get sex, you just here's how I would put it. access denied.

Brian Atlas>> Oh, >> that's what I would consider being involuntarily celibate. Like if you're a recluse and you don't go out and you're not I mean with technology now you're a man, you can stay inside 24 hours a day,

Brian Atlasget on a dating app, you can still make an effort to get laid. But of course, if you're not actually making some degree of effort to get laid, I still wouldn't I wouldn't even categorize a man as an incel in under those circumstances. you

Brian Atlasneed to have taken some reasonable steps and attempts to get laid and been rejected before you could fairly be categorized as involuntarily celibate because there there would have been no

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