Andrew Wilson DEBATES Amouranth! CRASH OUT Kylie Update?! Woke College Feminists! | Dating Talk #268
Date: 2025-11-10
Duration: 7h 48m
Guests
Brian AtlasIdentified Speakers
SPEAKER_02Willow(guest)
SPEAKER_03Lola(guest)
SPEAKER_05Courtney(guest)
SPEAKER_06Shona(guest)
SPEAKER_07Andrew Wilson(guest)
SPEAKER_08Brian Atlas(host)
SPEAKER_10Melissa (Bodybuilder)(guest)
SPEAKER_11Jake(guest)
SPEAKER_12Nick Lee(guest)
SPEAKER_13Amouranth(guest)
SPEAKER_14Savannah(guest)
Key Moments
00:02:44
IntroAll panelists introduce themselves including Amouranth, Nick Lee, and Andrew Wilson
00:17:00
Key MomentAmouranth/Nick tell full home invasion story. Nick shot invader with 9mm while wife was held hostage.
00:28:00
QuoteAmouranth reveals gross OnlyFans earnings of ~$74-75 million
00:30:12
ControversyDiscussion of Amouranth's vagina yeast beer made by Polish company and bath water sales
01:39:00
Key MomentAndrew and Willow debate whether OnlyFans is prostitution. Andrew: only difference is a screen.
02:22:00
Key MomentAndrew presents force doctrine to Shona: men monopolize force, women can never collectively take rights from men.
03:00:00
Key MomentDeep moral objectivism debate. Andrew: without God, if men decide women are cattle, there's no justification against it.
03:26:00
ControversyCourtney argues women should call partners 'master.' Most panelists reject this.
06:10:00
ControversyCourtney reveals ex-husband's suicide-by-cop. She texted 'you are the cancer' day he died. Family barred her from funeral.
07:15:00
QuoteAmouranth: 'I hate sex work too. I just like the money from it a lot.'
07:18:00
AgreementShona explicitly agrees men are primary victims of war by metric of death
07:22:00
QuoteMelissa's coconut oil story: refused extra fats even during sex because of macros
“He went to put coconut oil on his dick and I was like that's way too many fats.”
Topics Discussed
00:02:44
Guest Introductions and Relationship Status
All panelists introduce themselves. Includes Amouranth/Nick, Andrew Wilson, Shona (18, UCSB), Lola, Willow, Melissa (IFBB pro), Savannah, Courtney.
00:17:00
Amouranth Home Invasion
3 armed men broke in seeking crypto. Nick shot one with 9mm. All 3 caught, face 5-999 years in Texas.
00:26:30
OnlyFans Earnings
Amouranth grossed ~$74-75M on OnlyFans. Peak $30M/year. Quarter-million-dollar single day. Vagina yeast beer by Polish company.
01:39:00
Prostitution Definition Debate
Andrew argues all sex work is prostitution. Willow distinguishes between prostitutes (with pimps) and sex workers (with choice).
02:21:00
Force Doctrine and Feminism
Andrew presents force doctrine: men monopolize force, so women always appeal to men for rights. Shona pushes back. Andrew counters with Middle East/Afghanistan examples.
03:00:00
Objective vs Subjective Morality
Deep philosophical debate. Andrew: without God, all moral claims reduce to preference. Lola argues for biological instincts.
03:26:00
Women Should Call Men Master
Courtney advocates women calling partners 'master.' Panel debates who gets tiebreaker in marriage disagreements.
04:12:00
Crash Out Kylie Update
Update on guest who claimed she was 'digitally assaulted' and threatened to sue Brian.
04:29:00
Self-Rating Looks
Most women rate 8-10. Andrew and Brian find it delusional. Discussion of objective vs subjective beauty.
06:00:00
Income Requirements
Shona: six figures. Amouranth pre-fame: $60K. Lola: doesn't matter. Melissa: $250K. Savannah: $50K.
06:10:00
Courtney's Ex-Husband Suicide
Ex died by suicide-by-cop. She texted 'you are the cancer' day he died. Told him 'you could be anyone' during oral sex. Family barred her from funeral.
06:35:00
Women Are Primary Victims of War
Andrew: death is worse than trauma, men die overwhelmingly more. Shona eventually concedes men are primary victims by death toll.
07:11:00
Body Count Reveal
Melissa ~30. Savannah ~13. Willow ~30. Lola 4. Shona 0. Andrew's husband says 'wild 20-25.'
Transcript
Page 7 of 8
06:01:19
Andrew Wilson>> You're making nothing. >> Oh, then I wouldn't even try and date. I would focus on trying to make some money. >> Yeah. Assuming >> this is so far removed from who I am and like my goals. >> Yeah, I get it. But assuming you weren't making anything, you found the love of
06:01:31
Andrew Wilsonyour life. How much would you want him to be making? >> Sure. Like 60 to 80,000. >> Okay. >> It also depends on where you're living, I guess. Yeah. >> Then like 80,000. >> Okay. >> But I'd try and work. >> Uh what about you?
06:01:45
Amouranth>> Um I answered this from my pre-influencer self living in Texas with a middle class like lower middle class parents. So I said 60,000. Yeah. >> Doesn't matter to me. >> Yeah.
06:01:57
Lola>> Doesn't matter to [laughter] me. >> Never. It never matters to him. >> Doesn't matter to me. >> So, you date a guy who works at McDonald's? >> Yes. >> Like marry him? >> Um, >> when you're 30? >> Sure. >> Okay.
06:02:10
Lola>> I wouldn't be bothered by how much he was making. I might be bothered if he was miserable working there or if they were overworking him or, you know, if he didn't have any really real big goals with his life. >> What about you? Um, I don't have a
06:02:22
Willowpreference as long as at least it's full-time and like our combined because I'm 50/50. So, as long as our combined incomes are reasonably supportive, like I don't want to have to support a man again unless like we're married and like say something happens and like he needs
06:02:35
Willowme to take care of him. I don't want to ever enter a relationship again like being like the one who like buys everything for my partner and like they go to me for everything. You know what I mean? I want to be mutually exchanged. So,
06:02:46
SPEAKER_09>> all right. What about you? >> I said 250. Okay. 250,000. >> Holy [ __ ] that's a lot of money. >> Yeah. >> Uh, what about you? >> 50K. >> What about you?
06:02:57
Courtney>> Um, I go off the triple A's. Attitude, aptitude, and assets. I mean, alignment. [laughter] >> How much does your husband make?
06:03:05
Courtney>> Um, it's kind of a trick question. >> But he's he's an artist, so it's it's not at like >> so nothing. [laughter] If he asked you to marry him today though, would you say yes?
06:03:19
Brian Atlas>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> All right. Um, you said you had some disagreements with the show. You just said yes. What are those? >> Or did we already get into those? Maybe. >> Um,
06:03:32
Courtney>> I don't remember getting into those. >> Let's see. Okay, before before we go, uh, go to mine. Can I get some more water, please? Sorry.
06:03:41
Andrew Wilson>> Uhoh. I'm parched. >> Here we go.
06:03:48
Courtney>> Is that Is that all the notes? Right. Okay. Hello. Okay. Well, >> sorry to be holding up the show, folks. >> Oh, you're It's not just She has to go
06:04:00
Courtneyand get the water. You need to wait to actually drink. >> I was just wanting some time to figure it out. But yeah, I guess so. >> All [laughter] right. >> Thank you.
06:04:14
Oh boy. [sighs]
06:04:19
Courtney>> Um, I I do apologize, but can we go back to uh force doctrine for a little bit? I didn't get a chance to weigh in there.
06:04:32
Courtney>> Is that an issue with the show though? >> Okay, fine. I mean, if it's not the show, then Okay. Um, how about, you know, I see oftent times with the
06:04:43
Andrew Wilsonshow, repeal the 19th amendment because >> that's not my position or mine. >> All righty. Sorry. My bad. I'm >> It is kind of mine, but for different reasons than it's most people's. >> Okay.
06:04:56
Courtney>> What What What's an actual thing, though, moving off of that. >> Okay. Not that one. Um, let's see. the the the highest good is
06:05:08
Courtneyfor a woman is to bear children. I know we went over that, but Okay. Okay. Fine. Fine. Um >> Um
06:05:21
Brian Atlas>> Smoky Man Bad. That's usually a good place to start. >> I'm sorry. >> Smoky man bad. >> Here. How about this? You said in your notes that one's good. >> A lot of men aren't worthy to submit to and you believe it's because women have
06:05:32
Courtneybecome too entitled. Yeah. Okay. Thank you for that. I needed that. Um, yeah. I think that
06:05:43
Courtneynowadays we have a disparity of quality of of quality of dating. And this goes for both sides like the the
06:05:53
Courtneymale and the female where females are looking for a a specific type of person and it's all
06:06:05
Courtneylike vanity metrics like it's going to be um sorry it's going to be like height or income or
06:06:15
Courtneythese these various things. Um, and whereas with men, they they're
06:06:27
Brian Atlasthey're concerned that >> here, let me help out. Um, I'll just move on. Um, you said you were married. Now you're divorced. Your longest relationship of 5 years. One night on Valentine's Day at the end of your
06:06:38
Brian Atlasmarriage, you told him you could be you I think you said to him you could be anyone in the world right now. as he was performing Kolingus. >> Oh, >> what? [laughter] So, your husband of
06:06:52
Brian Atlas[ __ ] >> What the [ __ ] >> You said you could be anyone in the world right now. [laughter] >> What the [ __ ] is I I think I sort of understand what you mean. I mean, I think it's a terrible thing to say, but
06:07:04
CourtneyI think I >> I see what like you're saying like he he's like interchangeable. Is that kind of what or >> Yeah. I mean, this was during my first marriage. I uh started my relationship
06:07:16
Courtneywhen I was 23 and I was still like trying to figure out my self, but we were still together. And >> were you finding were you trying to find yourself? >> Well, no, I wasn't trying to find myself, but I think what I'm trying to
06:07:27
Courtneysay is I was still a fledgling trying to learn and grow. And this person, you know, it's it's difficult when it's like, oh, for your anniversary, they get
06:07:37
Courtneythey buy you Door Dash uh for uh the anniversary dinner and it's like brought to the house and it's supposed to be like this romantic thing. And you might
06:07:47
Courtneybe able to go above and beyond and provide them like uh a homemade meal with like like steak, like waggy steak and and lobster and things like that.
06:07:56
Courtneyand have it not be reciprocated is a t is is tough to um >> wait. Hang on. Help me out here. >> You cooked him home-cooked meals and he
06:08:08
Courtneygot Door Dash for your anniversary. >> Yes. >> Was the Door Dash good? >> I mean, it was cold. It was buoy. >> Could he cook? >> He could cook. He was very good at
06:08:20
Courtneycooking. It was >> What does this have to do with you? could be anyone in the world right now. >> My point being is that was towards the end that was the end of our relationship
06:08:31
Courtneybecause that was on Valentine's and >> but can you clarify what you mean when you said you could be anyone in the world right now? >> That was me saying that I was feeling disgruntled in our relationship romantically and I was okay.
06:08:45
Andrew Wilson>> Yeah. >> It means that you didn't give a [ __ ] about him, right? >> Isn't that what it means? Like if you you could be anybody right now. You're just interchangeable with [ __ ] Chuck right across. Isn't that mean I don't
06:08:58
Courtneyreally give a [ __ ] about you? >> A comment about you. >> I would say that that's my take on what I thought at the time was being kind. >> But yeah, >> even though it was brutally even though
06:09:09
Courtneyit was brutally honest, I think it's better to tell somebody that you're disgruntled versus, you know, commit adultery. >> Yeah, sure. But what you were saying was I don't give a [ __ ] about you. >> No, that is your words. You're creating
06:09:22
Courtneya straw man to make my >> I'm trying not to, but >> Well, you're doing it and I >> Oh, yeah. Well, how do you give a [ __ ] about someone when you're like, you could be Chuck >> because that's >> you could be Fred. You could just be whoever. >> I mean, I had said that again because
06:09:35
Courtneylike I was >> you wanted him to know that you cared a lot less about him than he thought, right? >> I just was trying to say that I was like falling out of love and that I don't and >> so you cared a lot less about him.
06:09:47
Amouranth>> Going down on you. >> This was while he's going down. while he was >> I was you could be anybody in the world right now. I just I was not down on women. By the way, [laughter] >> this is like this is like guys that come
06:09:59
Amouranthto my messages on only fans being like my girlfriend just broke up with me in this way and they're so sad looking for words of encouragement and asking for motivational videos just to cope. Like it's that kind of story that's
06:10:12
Brian Atlasheartbreaking. >> Well, it gets worse. So, um >> wait, what? It gets worse. >> It gets worse. >> Oh, no. So, um, a couple days afterwards, you say that you guys you
06:10:24
Brian Atlasgot into an argument and you called him a tool. >> He got drunk and pointed a firearm at you while your six-month infant was in
06:10:35
Brian Atlasthe same room and said, "This is a tool for you to use." The infant said that or he said that. >> I don't think the infant said it, Brian.
06:10:44
Courtney>> Yeah. Sorry, I mis my uh parsing >> there. He said that to me um after we had both said some awful things to each
06:10:56
Brian Atlasother. Mind you, I'm sending you these DM messages as a very short brief of what I had experienced. >> Sure. No, I'm sure there's a lot. Uh you said that that marked the end of your
06:11:06
Andrew Wilsonmarriage and then two years later he >> Did this guy Hang on real quick. This just occurred to me. Um, this is your ex-husband, right?
06:11:18
Andrew Wilson>> He's my ex-husband. >> Yeah. Did he by chance die by suicide? >> He It was an assisted suicide. >> Ah, wait. Assisted? >> Are you Wait, >> I mean,
06:11:30
Courtney>> what do you mean assisted? >> Um, means that he got into a confrontation with a an officer >> because he wanted to die. But is it because he wanted to die? He wanted to die. Yes.
06:11:43
Andrew Wilson>> Why did he want to die? >> That's a good question. But um that's the sad part because >> you don't think it's because like his wife said that he was an interchangeable widget with everybody on planet Earth
06:11:54
Andrew Wilsonwhile he was trying to sexually pleasure. You don't think that like that would be a contributing factor? I don't need your help. >> You don't think I don't need your help? You don't think that that's a contributing factor?
06:12:06
Courtney>> So I'm sorry. Are you are you putting everything on the >> No, I'm just asking I'm just asking you like it this sounds kind of miserable to me. >> You know, I'm I can sit here and defend
06:12:17
Courtneymy honor, but the thing is is by doing that it's also hurting like his honor and I know that his family will be watching this and this is part of >> Well, why do you do it? >> And then also my daughter might be watching this in the future.
06:12:29
Courtney>> Okay, I understand. But why why did he do it? If there's a like how do you know why anybody you know decides to opt out of life? >> Well, I mean if you were close to him for how many years after you were divorced did he do this?
06:12:43
Courtney>> Two. >> Not very long. >> No, it's not very long. And so hence why his family, you know, barred me from the funeral. >> I suppose. >> Well, it's all coming together. >> Responsibility on me.
06:12:55
Courtney>> Why did they do that? >> I'm not them. So, I wouldn't I couldn't even >> Why do you think that they would do that? >> I would believe that they blamed me for it.
06:13:06
Andrew Wilson>> Why? >> Why would they blame me for it? >> What reasons did they have for blaming you? You don't usually come up with reasons to blame a person for somebody else's death that are completely
06:13:18
Courtneyunfounded. What What did they think? >> Again, there is like transgressions that what had happened, but it's like are we overlooking the the firearm aspect? Not saying that he's not mentally ill. I'm
06:13:29
Andrew Wilsonjust pointing out I'm asking you a question which is why did his family think it's your fault? >> That's a public record that had happened. >> I know. But why does his family think it's your fault?
06:13:42
Courtney>> Um that we like so I had divorced him because of the domestic violence >> and then two years after that we had divorced and he was getting and I was
06:13:52
Courtneyget getting nothing from child support. um two years after that. I mean he's has he's a principal solutions architect at Amazon was doing 250k easy um >> and he wasn't paying you. So what
06:14:04
Courtneyhappened then? >> So then I decided to date other people. >> Okay. >> And move on with my life and then not try.
06:14:16
Courtney>> You didn't take him to court >> for child support. >> Child support. No. No. >> No. No. >> So why do they blame you then? >> [sighs]
06:14:27
Courtney>> H could it be that there was history of trauma that he had?
06:14:37
Courtney>> Why do they blame you though? >> Because Oh, yes. So, okay. There was a text message the morning of uh the the
06:14:47
Courtneyfateful day that said um you don't have cancer. You are the cancer >> who doesn't have cancer.
06:14:57
Andrew Wilson>> My ex-husband. >> So you said that he didn't have cancer. He was the cancer. >> Yes. >> Oh. And so his >> holy [ __ ]
06:15:08
Andrew Wilson>> family his So his family believes that you were a contributing factor to his death. The guy that you said was an interchangeable widget along with anybody else who was
06:15:17
Courtneyaround when he was going down on you. And then the day of his death, you called him a cancer. >> Wait, did he have cancer? >> He stated that he did to his family and
06:15:31
Andrew Wilsonhis friends. >> But you said he didn't. Did he? >> He He did not. >> No. But you stated that he was the cancer. >> But I stated I said mean things. >> Did you say anything else to him the fateful day?
06:15:43
Andrew Wilson>> That was it. >> No. And then the day before that, did you say anything mean? >> Not to that degree. No. But you still said other mean things. >> I wouldn't. No, I don't. I didn't speak
06:15:54
Andrew Wilsonto him that way. >> So I mean it sounds like his family has pretty good cause to think he might have been a contributing fac. So he So then he suicided by cop. How do they know he's suicided by cop? How do they know
06:16:07
Courtneythat it was suicide? >> Um because when >> did he leave a note? >> There was no note. M >> um he called a pe a bunch of people and said that his daughter would uh that he
06:16:19
Courtneythinks that this is the best choice because his he thinks his daughter >> um >> um >> would be better off without him. >> Oh. And and who would his daughter be better off with? >> Not anybody.
06:16:33
Andrew Wilson>> Oh, >> I mean he's a he's he is irreplaceable in that sense. He is irreplaceable. So the day that this guy calls all of his friends and leaves a verbal diary behind
06:16:43
Courtneythat he's going to kill himself happened to be the day that you said that he was a cancer. >> So I think there again that we are overlooking the mental health aspect of this at least.
06:16:56
Andrew Wilson>> Well if you thought he was hang on if you thought if you thought he was mentally ill why would you say [ __ ] like that to him? >> I didn't know that he was that mentally ill. >> Oh really? the guy who pointed a gun at
06:17:08
Courtneyyou. You didn't know he was that mentally ill. Interesting. >> I didn't know that. >> I know that really is usually mentally stable men who point guns at their wives in front of their infants. >> But I had divorced him for a specific reason of the of the firearm charge and
06:17:22
Andrew Wilsonthen after that >> doesn't sound like a stable man. I don't know why you would send him a message calling him a cancer. >> He was going he was going through a lot. Well, he was like >> he was going through a lot. >> He was going through a lot. >> And then you triggered the breaking point and he [ __ ] killed himself, right? Like that's
06:17:36
Andrew Wilson>> half is unbelievable. >> Well, it is unbelievable. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable that you know I have to draw the details out and is being evasive when it's very clear that there was some [ __ ] that happened. >> Not your fault.
06:17:48
Lola>> How the [ __ ] do you know? >> What do you mean? Well, from what she's told us. >> And what she's told us is that she drove the guy to [ __ ] kill himself. No, she did not. >> Yes, she did. >> People don't decide to kill themselves over one. >> No, because what she's describing what she's describing, ladies, is a pattern
06:18:01
Andrew Wilsonof behavior. She said I was mean a couple days before mean a couple days before. The whole family blame the whole family blames her. >> No. Yeah, because people need to I know there's no reason. She just called him a [ __ ] cancer the day he happened to kill himself. >> I have had people treat me so much worse
06:18:16
Amouranththan that. >> You're not a man and your your value of yourself is not you providing for your family and being a father and being a husband. Like a lot of men have this like sense of purpose in their life. >> And I'm sorry. If they choose to kill themselves over the fact that they treated someone poorly, therefore they
06:18:29
Andrew Wilsonretaliated, then that is their own fault. It's really funny how quickly the sisterhood comes into effect. >> No, it's not sisterhood. It's common [ __ ] >> Did you ever think that perhaps a person who felt responsible might do their best
06:18:41
Andrew Wilsonto be evasive about the details of things? Because if Hang on, stop. Let me finish. >> All right. >> And then you can respond. >> Go on. >> That the details of the things, if we
06:18:51
Andrew Wilsonhad the totality of them, >> may look very bad for them if they gave them to us. And so that's why they're particularly evasive when you ask them specific questions about circumstances.
06:19:02
Andrew WilsonDoesn't that stand a reason? Or hang on. Or do I sound like an unreasonable lunatic to you right now? >> I can understand if that were the circumstances. >> Let me let me finish the interrogation before you weigh in then.
06:19:13
Andrew Wilson>> Okay. Yeah, go on. Great. I'm sorry for your loss. Great. So, uh, well, it doesn't sound like it's much of a loss. She said, "Hey, he could have been anyone." >> What did she lose? Just because you don't want to be in a romantic
06:19:24
Lolarelationship with someone WHO ABUSED YOU DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU DON'T value because he lied about having cancer. >> How do you how do you know that? >> What do you say? If she is lying, then that is going to weigh on her conscious. But it doesn't benefit anyone here to
06:19:38
Andrew Wilsontry and call her a liar. I don't think you're lying. >> Instantly dive in on the sisterhood without having any. If >> she were a man, I would be saying the same [ __ ] >> without having any of the facts as I'm trying to get the facts. You could have just waited till we got the facts and then made the assessment judgement. You
06:19:50
Lolacouldn't help yourself had come in on the sisterhood. I couldn't help myself. >> I can't help it. >> I couldn't help myself because this is an insane way to treat a person. >> How did I treat her? >> Well, you're you're accusing her of lying on something that you don't know anything about. You are. She She's been
06:20:03
Andrew Wilsonthrough something horrific. >> The establishment first and made me You demanded that I give you an assessment based on what I heard I did. You didn't even let me You didn't even let me finish the questioning because you were so buttth hurt that she was giving
06:20:16
Andrew Wilsondetails about something she could be responsible for. >> No, you are accusing her of something. I'm not mad that you're asking her questions, but I am mad that you're accusing her of >> I don't care what you're I didn't listen based on only what I've heard. You asked for my assessment. I gave it
06:20:29
Andrew Wilson>> and you're more than welcome to and I'm allowed to disagree and I'm feel details. >> Sure. >> Great. So anyway, back to this. What else did you say to this guy over the previous three weeks? Was there massive
06:20:41
Courtneyfights going on? What was going on? >> There's no massive fights. Uh he was going in sorry excuse me in and um out of rehab. So he was he had was
06:20:53
Andrew Wilsonstruggling with >> what what was he going in and out of rehab for? >> With alcohol. >> Oh. So he's going in rehab. He was struggling. >> He was struggling.
06:21:04
Courtney>> Why did you call him a cancer that day? >> I said you don't have cancer. You are the cancer. >> Yeah. Why did you say that though? What did he do? He was
06:21:14
Courtneyhe was not he was not supporting our daughter be uh going not supporting our daughter. >> So he wasn't giving you money. >> I wasn't getting anything and I was having her the whole uh the 100% of the
06:21:27
Andrew Wilsontime. So >> So why this guy's going re to re So why this guy's going to rehab uh and trying to kick alcohol which is one of the worst addictions on planet Earth. And it can kill you. Actually if you cold turkey from alcohol it'll
06:21:39
Courtney[ __ ] kill you. Um because you weren't getting any money from him, you called him a cancer. Is that right?
06:21:48
Courtney>> I think that it was not like directly as response to that. Um he had said something
06:22:00
Courtneyuh said something degenerate towards me and we were bickering and that's when I had >> this guy who's going through rehab. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> said something said something to me.
06:22:12
CourtneyWhat did he say? >> I think I don't recall the exact details. >> Um >> Well, it must not have been that important >> perhaps. It was but it was something
06:22:23
Courtneythat I had snapped at him for that that I was sick and tired of the lies because I didn't know what >> was his what was our reality together. >> Now, I I never met you before. I didn't
06:22:35
Andrew Wilsonknow anything about your story, your tale. I've never seen anything. But there was a reason that I guessed it was a suicide. What What reason do you think that I
06:22:44
Andrew Wilsonguessed that and was basically right? What reason? What reason would I have to
06:22:50
Andrew Wilsonbelieve just as a guess? And it was an easy one that this guy committed suicide
06:22:59
Andrew Wilson>> that I initiated the divorce. >> Um I'm not sure. Well, I'll I'll just tell you my assessment just from like having
06:23:11
Andrew Wilsontalked with you for so I talked to thousands of women, right? But um my guess and you could tell me if I'm way off base, but have you been diagnosed with mental illnesses yourself? >> Me? >> Mhm.
06:23:24
Andrew Wilson>> No. >> None? >> No. >> You take no psychotrophic drugs? >> I do not. >> You take nothing? >> No. >> Okay. Well, then I'm wrong.
06:23:37
Andrew WilsonBut I was right in the assessment on the suicide. Just saying. I'll leave it there. >> Well, consider that men's suicide rates have just gone up. >> Usually they go up because they're like
06:23:48
Andrew Wilsonveterans or they're homeless. Uh sometimes it's directly contributed because they're addicts, but often times it's when they're addicts and they're going through a divorce and there's a lot of demands being placed on them
06:24:00
Andrew Wilsonwhile they're trying to get their [ __ ] together. That's that's where we get the contributions to these suicides. >> And you can you can state you can put the entire argument on me, but >> I'm not putting the entire argument on you. I'm just pointing out
06:24:13
Courtney>> responsibilities for myself. >> There's there's certain reasons why I assumed that this was a suicide and was right. >> Highutin aura where you think that it has to be due to my like bipolar. You think I'm like
06:24:25
Andrew Wilsonschizophrenic? >> I don't I I don't know what the diagnosis is. What's what's been your expert like anecdotal expertise on >> anecdotal is right. So it's just like um
06:24:37
Andrew Wilson>> guys guys >> when you when you have like a elongated when you have a elongated speak with or speech with people you start to realize certain patterns of how people talk and
06:24:48
Andrew Wilsonespecially if you talk to different sexes when they display mental illness with men that it's usually aggressive. It's usually aggressive. Uh, almost every single time I've seen it, they
06:25:00
Andrew Wilsonsnap. They do things like this. And you can pull it out of them pretty quick with women. It's usually they you can see it usually when they can't collect their thoughts. They can't make coherent sentences. They become easily
06:25:12
Andrew Wilsondistracted. Things like this. Um, usually that's a sign of things like um well, I don't know, BPD and other just just a shot in the dark. You know what I mean? But uh that's just been my
06:25:24
Andrew Wilsonexperience. It just didn't surprise me that you the second you said that he was giving you kunnelingus and you said that he could have been anybody. I had a gut feeling he died by suicide. I just had a
06:25:36
Courtneygut feeling. >> So because I was feeling unhappy in the marriage, I chose to leave a marriage that that was a danger a threat to my daughter and I [snorts] um after I said
06:25:48
Courtneysome words that I was just I was kind of there's two sides on that day. I had look there's two sides to every story. There's two sides. We can sit here and be pedantic on this, but the fact of the matter is you don't know the whole story. You don't know what he went through when he was an adolescent.
06:26:02
Courtney>> But I did guess that he committed suicide correctly, didn't I? >> The essays he had to undergo through as a little boy. >> It's it's very it's the people's lives. >> That's exactly what you say to a guy who
06:26:14
Courtneyexperienced SA [clears throat] and was an alcoholic and had all kinds of [ __ ] cancer the day he died. >> He has family. He has three other brothers. He's got sisters. It's like you put all of it on me. >> Do all of them blame you? Do they blame you for it?
06:26:26
Courtney>> No, they not all of them do. I think it's pretty split, but it's his brothers are >> Wait, they barred you from going to the funeral? >> Yeah. >> Well, the thing is is it's the dad that's the most,
06:26:38
Courtney>> you know, upset and he's not going to tolerate someone that's going to like that could cause disruption >> at their funeral. I think it was perhaps
06:26:50
Courtneylike looking back like the the better decision even though it hurt me. Um I'm still processing what I could have done better as his wife and you know
06:27:02
Courtney>> maybe not say why he's giving you lingus that he could have been anybody. >> Sure. And so words carry so much impact and so if anything >> they do I you know I was 26 27 at the
06:27:14
Courtneytime and I am I'm appalled how much these words can hurt people when I was just [laughter] >> yes I'm appalled at my ram at the consequences of my ramifications and if
06:27:28
Courtneyif there's a way that I could take it back I would knowing what I know now but >> you don't sound very appalled it's not on me I would like other people to I I mean what can I do Now it's it's sad. It's upset. I I like the whole this
06:27:39
Courtneywhole conversation was brought up in a very combative way. You know, I didn't even get to bring it up in my own, you know, tone. It was just kind of this is how it was. Courtney, Courtney, it's like Courtney, uh, let me just, you
06:27:52
Courtneyknow, paint you in this bad light. And it's like, okay, paint me in this bad light. There's I just hope that at the end that people can understand how much
06:28:01
Courtneyimpact words have and that and then they don't block people especially if they're truly hurting like that. >> Hang on. What do you mean not block people? >> Wait, really quick before you answer
06:28:13
Brian Atlasthat. In what light would you wish to be painted in while your husband is attempting to give you sexual pleasure
06:28:23
Brian Atlaswhere you are you say you could be anyone in the world right now at least as it relates to that what light would you like to be paying to
06:28:33
Courtney>> I already said this but I will say it again I think that when someone is kind versus do something like cheat and commit adultery I mean, perhaps there
06:28:45
Courtneywas a better way I could have spoken that truth of feeling >> um unattended [snorts] for and unratified, >> but we weren't having sex. It's not like
06:28:57
Courtneywe were having sex and it was just one time. It's like we were in a very long dry spell. We had a we all we did was we played video games together as our way of bonding. It's like we didn't really
06:29:07
Courtneywant to leave the house. we had like um this very much agorophobic like did not aversion to like to going out. We we loved each other's company. So I thought
06:29:18
Brian Atlasand so I felt that we had maximum trust >> just for the whole panel. I mean uh we were going to order some pizza. Does anybody want some pizza? >> Yeah. >> Um
06:29:30
Andrew Wilson>> Oh, >> for me, right? I gota I I do Well, no, but I do have I do have to roll soon because I have debate tomorrow and I got to get some I got to get some shutye. >> Okay. Uh yeah. So, you want to stay for
06:29:44
Andrew Wilsonthe pizza at least? >> I'll stay for the pizza. Of course, we'll get something. [laughter] >> Of course. Um >> if you put pineapple on that [ __ ] pizza, >> you're going over that balcony. >> Pepperoni. Anybody like vegetarian or anything? >> I can't have beef.
06:29:57
Brian Atlas>> Beef. >> Just beef. I can have any other meat. >> Pepperoni is fine then. >> Pork. Usually a mix of pork and beef. >> Is it? >> Yeah. >> Um pork and beef. >> How about this? We'll do
06:30:08
Brian Atlas>> We'll do one >> pepperoni, one olive. >> That's fine. Yeah. Sausage or cheese is fine. >> Anything. Literally anything. But >> one olive, one pepperoni. All right, [snorts] we'll get some food for
06:30:20
Brian Atlaseverybody. I'm sure you guys are a little uh bit on the hungry side. We have a super chat here from Nasho Nabo. Yeah, totally going to weigh on the cons conscious of someone smiling, telling
06:30:32
Brian Atlasthe story of pushing someone over the edge while scoffing at her involvement in the end. Chair 7 is evil. Chair four, wait, chair seven or chair 7 is evil. Chair four, oppositional defiant disorder.
06:30:45
Andrew WilsonThe entire [snorts] family thinks she's at fault, but C4 believes her over the entire family. So, he's referencing the conversation here because it's an uncomfortable conversation. He's saying chair four wanted to jump in
06:30:58
Andrew Wilsonbecause it made her uncomfortable, which I understand. Made her uncomfortable. She wanted to jump in on in the defense. Sisterhood always does this. I'm very used to it. It's not from my perspective. It's just a normal Tuesday, right? So, I'm not upset about it.
06:31:10
Andrew WilsonThat's that's the way it always works. But that's what he's saying. He's saying that you jumped in. You were combative because you didn't like what you were hearing. So, you jumped in in order to cause the defense. It's very very common. >> I was combative because I think that it was a disgusting way to handle the
06:31:24
Andrew Wilsonconversation. >> Yeah. You know, women always think that everything is a disgusting way to do anything when you're trying to get to something that's factual. >> We are more than welcome to disagree. >> And I disagree. And I'm welcome to it. Like [laughter] you just said,
06:31:36
Brian Atlas>> okay. >> Okay. All right. Um, finishing up some of the final notes. Let's Let's do uh Melissa, you got some notes.
06:31:45
Brian Atlas>> What did I say? Okay. >> Uh-oh. Uh, so you said in your notes you haven't had a boyfriend since 2021. Uh, haven't really dated anyone consistently
06:31:57
Brian Atlassince. You've been on dates. You've had some short-term hookups, something unique the last couple years. You often do acid when you go on dates. >> Yeah, do >> acid. Any other any little uh scoot into
06:32:10
Brian Atlasthe table a little bit just so we can uh >> What is the deal with bodybuilders and psychedelics, man? They go [ __ ] nuts over >> intense things. >> They go [ __ ] wild for psychedelics.
06:32:20
Andrew Wilson>> Yeah. Um, you said that you any other drug use or just the acid? >> I mean, not on [snorts] date like >> Okay. >> Well, you're not tripping on acid right now or your pupils would be [ __ ] the size of the Death Star.
06:32:34
Melissa (Bodybuilder)>> I left I forgot it. >> Yeah. [snorts] >> You should have taken acid on the Whatever podcast. That would have been >> I actually texted my best friend this morning. I was like, I forgot the acid. >> Oh, great. [laughter] Shoot. Uh, well,
06:32:45
Brian Atlasyou said that aside from the fact it's fun, it helps you engage very deeply and enjoy conversation even if you're not romantically interested in the person. So, if you are romantically interested in the person, you don't take the acid. >> No, that's not necessarily >> Oh, okay.
06:32:59
Andrew Wilson>> And I don't Oh, well, I haven't. >> You're like, damn, this person's boring. >> Are you micro doing or you take a full tab of acid? >> No, like a quarter tap. >> Okay. Yeah. So, you're not So, you're like quarter So, you're quarter
06:33:10
Brian Atlastripping. Yeah, you're quarter tripping. Okay. really have fun, but like no one knows besides me. >> You You said you were hooking up with twins. >> Yeah, I was. >> And one of them turned out to be married. >> Yes. >> When you say twins, two [laughter] guys.
06:33:24
Melissa (Bodybuilder)>> Yes. >> You did a devil's threesome. >> Uh, one time we had a threesome. Uh, the other times were separate. >> Did the twins do stuff with each other? >> No. >> Oh, okay. >> Wait, [laughter] have you had more than
06:33:34
Brian Atlasone threesome? >> Or like with different groups of people or whatever? >> I had one in college. >> In college? Okay. >> Wait, was it the Trend twins? >> You know,
06:33:46
Brian Atlas>> they do live in Florida, though. Yeah. >> Okay. Um, you said you got a you got a super gay matching tattoo with a guy you were seeing for only two weeks right before [snorts] you moved out of state and then you ended things with him over the phone a few weeks later.
06:34:00
Willow>> Yes. >> What? It was an 11. >> It's And it says 11, too. So, when we hold hands in the car, it says 111. How gay is that? >> That's so cute. [laughter] My ex and I have avocado [clears throat] tattoos matching, but he has the nut one
06:34:12
Willowin it. So, it's like [laughter] I was like he would fill me up or whatever. Yeah. And I had to Yeah. >> What? >> Sorry. [laughter] >> Excuse me. >> Don't get matching tattoos with your exes.
06:34:25
Willow>> I don't know. I think mine's funny. >> Yours is way cuter than mine. >> Wait, so just to be clear, >> did I hear that right? >> Yeah. Can you Wait, wait, wait. Can you um >> Yeah. Explain this again.
06:34:38
Willow>> Can you repeat that again? >> He We both have a half of that avocado, but he has the nut in the avocado. The seed? >> Yeah, the seed. Yeah, same thing. >> Cuz But you call it the nut. >> The joke was that like he always told me it was more loveydovey, but everybody
06:34:51
Andrew Wilsonalways took it super sexual, so he just kind of like ran with that. >> It's pretty [ __ ] super sexual. >> I mean, you like to sleep. >> He has the nut and is filling you up. I mean, what the [ __ ] Like, >> well, I hope my partner is filling me up
06:35:03
Andrew Wilsonso or else they probably don't want to be with them. >> [laughter] >> So romantic. Just >> or else I'm going to have to take care of it myself. >> Send the nuke. Send the nuke again. [laughter] Please. Please send the nuke. >> Send the asteroid.
06:35:16
Brian Atlas>> Yeah. I like dark humor, so it worked out for me. >> And we are >> Sounds like one of those you had to be there. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Wow. Okay. Good times. Um. Uh. Okay. Matching. Matching. Do you
06:35:29
Brian Atlasguys have matching tattoos? >> We don't have any tattoos. >> No tattoos. No tattoos. Okay. Uh oh. Oh my goodness. This guy is on fire.
06:35:41
SPEAKER_01>> Robert Tanner donated $1,0001. >> Thank you, Robert. You're [ __ ] >> champagne with your pizza. Thanks, Brian and Andrew. Appreciate you guys. >> Yo, Robert Tanner, thank you, man. You're [ __ ] legend. I'll uh I'll wait
06:35:54
Brian Atlasto pop it for a few minutes and we'll wait for the uh pizza. But thank you, man. That's very uh very kind of you, >> Mr. Tanner. Nice to see you again.
06:36:03
SPEAKER_01Oh, I guess uh uh yeah, take take that one. Oh, what the heck? >> Meow. Donated $69. What's insane is the women have zero
06:36:14
SPEAKER_01empathy about a puppy story. All they only care about her not looking like a bad guy. So much emotional intelligence. >> I guess this is a good moment to say
06:36:25
Brian Atlasthat I'm we're going to be doing a roast session in a little bit. I had. So, the roast is going to be $69 TTS or if you have a Q&A, you can do Q&A roast. We'll do $69. Uh, >> you're going to get roasted so hard on
06:36:39
Brian Atlasthe pimp suit, dude. >> I'm okay with that. >> You're going to get roasted so hard. >> He might get compliments on >> He might get compliments. >> You look sharp, Andrew. >> I think Are you going to start wearing a pimp hat? >> Yes, I'm [laughter] a fuzzy
06:36:51
Brian Atlas>> a fuzzy pimp. >> A fuzzy like Halloween costume. Uh, let's see here. Uh going finishing
06:36:58
Brian Atlasoff Melissa's notes. Uh the matching tattoo. Um >> you know what we tell one story? >> We're going to What's that? >> Uh oh.
06:37:10
Brian Atlas>> Don't worry about it. Well, but uh here. Wait, wait. No, no, no. What? You just said the one story. >> There's a There's a story on >> What's the story? >> It's a [ __ ] story. I don't >> Oh, I didn't even >> Okay, we can do it. >> Well, I'll see I'll see when I get back
06:37:23
Brian Atlasto [laughter] We're going to do a couple things from the questionnaire. There's a lot. We're not We're definitely not going to do everything, but um really quick, 24. Women are the primary victims of war, not men. Uh you say both are victims. Um >> yeah,
06:37:36
Shona>> but you do acknowledge that >> ways. >> Sure. But you acknowledge that when at least when it comes to war, men are more the victims than women. >> I mean, I think they're affected in different ways. But do you mean like death count because they fight in the
06:37:50
Andrew Wilsonwars? >> No. More like this. Here would be my argument. You can get over trauma. You can't get over death.
06:38:01
ShonaThat would be my argument. So therefore, men are more victims in war than women are. >> I mean, yeah. I think you'd also have to look at the war. Like when I think about what's going on in Sudan or Sudan right
06:38:12
Shonanow, like I'd say women are in a way like very much victims. >> What what's going on in Sudan? >> Like there's a lot of like mass rape and
06:38:22
Shonatorture. Yeah, that's true. But men are still primarily the ones dying. >> I mean, it's kind it's kind of Okay, so let's say on one hand, you're saying like, okay, a man is more likely to get shot there. A woman's more likely to get
06:38:36
Andrew Wilsonassaulted than watch her whole family get assaulted than watch her man get >> Do you agree with me that it's kind of hard to talk? >> Do you agree with me that that's highly traumatic? >> Yeah. >> Do you agree with me though that >> I'd rather die than have to go through that if I'm being honest? >> Oh, really?
06:38:48
Andrew Wilson>> Than to watch my children get assaulted and killed? I mean, well, the thing is is that while that does happen, that's not the commonality. And so, the thing is is like uh in warfare, if you agree
06:39:01
Andrew Wilsonwith me that trauma is something that you can adhere to and something that you can deal with and something that many people can even place behind them, then even if it's traumatic for one, >> as long as you acknowledge that many people can't fully like you mentioned
06:39:13
Shonaveterans killing themselves, >> many can't. But when you say many, that it like how many are we talking? Also, it's not just trauma. Like war affects you permanently in other ways. Like economically, you >> That sounds like it's all trauma though
06:39:26
Andrew Wilson>> in a way. Sure. >> Yeah. So it's like kind of hard to get away. >> You can move away from trauma. You can't move away from [ __ ] death, >> right? >> Okay. Men probably die more often in wars. >> Yeah. So, so then if you can if one can
06:39:39
Shonabe healed from and one can't, then how is one not worse than the other? I mean again I don't think I mean a woman can heal from that trauma but like a woman >> but men can't heal from the trauma of death. Do you agree
06:39:51
Andrew Wilson>> trauma? Is it? >> Yeah I think it is. I think it's a very traumatic thing to die >> you're actively facing >> like death. >> Okay. I I thought you meant like lasting trauma like something that you
06:40:03
Andrew Wilsonexperience. >> I mean it lasts as long as you're alive to experience that death. And so it's like you can't get over that because you're [ __ ] dead. So, it seems to me like if the the argument is like, well,
06:40:15
Andrew Wilsonwomen get a lot of a lot of trauma. >> You want me to say that men die more often in wars than relationship? >> No, that's not what I'm after. We already agree that that's true. What I'm after is that the primary victim if you
06:40:26
Andrew Wilsonif you have a victim non-victim relationship, if the idea here is that trauma it for women is victimization, I agree. But that's something that can be
06:40:37
Andrew Wilsonat least dealt with. Death is permanent. So if death is permanent, how could you not be the primary victim if you die? >> Wait, also when you say like men are dying a lot more often, you're talking about like people who are like fighting.
06:40:49
Andrew Wilson>> No, I mean just overwhelmingly they die more. They even die more often in support roles. Let's be real because they're the ones who are building the power lines. They're the ones who are digging the ditches. They're the ones who are doing all that [ __ ] >> We're talking about war, right?
06:41:01
Andrew Wilson>> Even in war. >> Even in war, the support roles even in war, the support roles are going to be men dying still. even as opposed to women in support roles. >> Are men like targeted more and worse? >> Well, it's not just a matter of
06:41:14
Andrew Wilsontargeting. They just have more dangerous jobs. >> Okay. Well, yeah, men have more dangerous jobs than women. Sure. >> So, they're going to die more. If that's the case, then women can heal from trauma. Like, if I gave you the
06:41:25
Shonapercentage of women who die in wars, it's extremely small. I mean, we can pull it up in fact. >> Okay. I guess what I'm saying is like I don't Women aren't in like would you say women are like in a much better position when it comes to work?
06:41:38
Andrew Wilson>> Yes. Because you can heal from trauma. You can't heal from death. >> But you can't always heal from trauma. >> But you but you have you always have a chance to heal from trauma. You have no
06:41:48
Shonachance to heal from death. >> Okay, I'll I agree with that. But what I'm still saying is women are so affected by war that it it like you can say there's a difference, but like you
06:42:01
Shonawould have to acknowledge like both are severely affected. >> Yeah. But we're looking for the primary. So if out of two >> Okay. Okay. As long as women's suffering during war is not dismissed, especially when they also are subject to certain kinds of >> Not at all. It's not dismissed at all.
06:42:14
Andrew Wilson>> Also, when they're subject to certain kinds of suffering in certain cases like Sudan, >> that's like really horrible. >> I mean, you still have three-year-old even then, let's say a woman has to watch her entire family get killed in
06:42:27
Andrew Wilsonfront of her. I still think that that's preferable to her being one of the members of her family killed in front of her because that's a permanent condition and the trauma is something which can at least be dealt with. So you would agree
06:42:39
Andrew Wilsonthat there's at least some women who go through that situation who can deal with that trauma long term though it affects them horribly. I agree they at least have a chance if they're hang on but if
06:42:51
Shonathey're dead they don't they don't even have the chance. I mean, the way I almost see it is like if if you're alive in that circumstance, it's so torturous torturous going through, but you have a
06:43:03
Andrew Wilsonchance to heal from it or you have a chance to deal with it, you have at least a chance to do that. If you're dead, that chance gone. >> I don't think any woman's going to heal from like all her children dying. >> They listen, do you think that women
06:43:16
Andrew Wilsonhaven't seen that in war before and went on to continue with life clear up until an old age? Because they have. And yes, the trauma's with them. is horrible, but they at least have that chance. The dead
06:43:27
Shonadon't have a chance cuz they're dead. So, I think that that would be the primary victim, right? >> Okay. By the metric of death toll, then yeah, men are affected worse, but both are severely badly affected.
06:43:38
Brian Atlas>> Well, so we acknowledge that terrible things do happen to women during wartime. It's not just uh roses and daisies for women, although for many it is. for prime example here would be I
06:43:51
Brian Atlasknow >> I don't think roses and disease >> hold on >> so for example in Ukraine all the men had to stay they they were barred even men who weren't actively
06:44:03
Brian Atlaseven in the military all the men had to stay >> physically [clears throat] prevented from leaving >> all the women if they were so inclined could leave and many of these women
06:44:14
Brian Atlaswhere did they go they went they went west United Kingdom Stockholm, Italy, wherever. They went to the They went to the United States. They went to Miami.
06:44:25
Brian AtlasWithin two weeks of the Ukraine war breaking out, you had Ukrainian women who were in Stockholm at you Stockholm, Sweden. The hot and they were in the hottest nightclubs there partying and
06:44:36
Brian Atlasgetting [ __ ] by hot Swedish dudes. Explain to me how the Ukrainian women in the Ukrainian conflict have it worse than the Ukrainian men. >> I never said they had it worse. So, who's the primary victim of war? At
06:44:49
Brian Atlasleast as it relates to the Ukrainian war. >> Well, in that case, men. >> In in that case, men. Many women, and this isn't just related to the Ukraine conflict, many women have the option to flee.
06:45:03
Brian Atlas>> Okay. So, what you're saying is in certain situations, women will have an advantage in most situations. >> I would also say, >> you can point to Sudan. I can point to 99% of wars that have ever occurred. Men
06:45:14
Brian Atlashave had it worse. What what do you what is a male life worth to you? >> Like the >> Well, what is the calculus for you? Because you're saying, okay, well, the worst outcome for a woman would be like
06:45:27
Brian Atlastorture or rape or something, right? So then how many men would you be willing to let die to prevent one rape? >> Zero. I wouldn't want anyone. I said I said,
06:45:38
Shona>> would you allow one man to die to prevent one rape? >> No, I wouldn't allow a man to die. You never said women's [clears throat] suffering was worse than men's. Did I? >> I mean, then why are you I'm not sure why you're arguing
06:45:51
Andrew Wilson>> when I said but I mean look, I wasn't aware of the statistic that men experience. >> How about what if we took it this way? Um would you let one man die to prevent 10 rapes?
06:46:06
Shona>> That's a really that's a tough question. >> 15
06:46:15
Andrew WilsonIt's like that's a tough question. I'd say they're likeough they're on similar levels. >> If they're on similar levels, then that would mean that there would need to be at least 15 rapes for every one man dead for the women to be. It's kind of hard to like quantify that.
06:46:28
Andrew Wilson>> That would that would mean though the entailment of that would mean it would be at least at the very least 15 rapes per every man dead. That would be necessary for women to be the primary victims in that conflict.
06:46:39
Shona>> Women were the primary victims. So then >> even in my original like this is a topic I'm going to be honest I'm not very educated. Even in my original paper I never said that women were the primary victims. I just said >> yeah know I'm asking you based on the
06:46:51
Shonainformation you have now would you say men are the primary victims of war? >> Well in terms of death yeah >> well not not just in terms of death but yeah okay got it. >> But not by Okay. I I would still say
06:47:02
Brian Atlaswomen suffer severely to the point where >> don't disagree that women suffer. Never disagree with that. >> I think that's fair enough then. >> Right. But you wrote both are victims. So that >> both are victims in war. >> Yes, of course. Women do suffer during wartime.
06:47:16
Shona>> That's all I'm saying. >> But are they both equally victims? >> Well, now that we've had this conversation, like we we've established death as like the worst thing that can happen to you. >> Do you think that
06:47:29
Amouranth>> I mean again like personally >> like under most circumstances you do, right? >> Yeah. I mean I'm not going to look at it from a a super personally biased POV. >> Yeah. Yeah. But under most circumstances, >> I would view being drafted as being a victim. Like would you say it's a victim
06:47:42
Amouranthwhen a child gets taken from his home? Like if the guy does if it's an involuntary draft, then I would say that's a victim. >> Well, all drafts are involuntary. You wouldn't have to draft, right? >> That's some point. So, >> and you I mean, you make a good point
06:47:54
Andrew Wilsonhere and you know, I brought this up earlier when we were talking about force doctrine, right? It's the idea that men and who has to sign up for the draft here? >> I don't agree with the draft. >> Yeah. But who has to sign up for it here?
06:48:07
Andrew Wilson>> Well, men have to sign up for it, but I still don't. >> Do women? >> No. >> Yeah. Do you know why? >> Because men are physically stronger than women. >> It's because the United States government has done nothing but test battlefield capabilities since. >> When's the last time they implemented
06:48:22
Brian Atlasthe draft? >> It was in the Vietnam War. >> That's a while ago. >> Slavery was a while ago. Does that no longer matter? >> Yeah. >> Does that not have an impact on black Americans? >> But worse is like it wasn't that long ago.
06:48:33
Andrew Wilsonyou know, it was during my dad's lifetime. So, it wasn't that long ago. It's not like we're talking about, you know, ancient history here. And it could be re-implemented. And men still have to sign up for it and women don't. And the
06:48:45
Andrew Wilsonreason is because the US government and governments around the world when they have any type of conscription, they they look at the entire history and the competence of, you know, who who on
06:48:58
Shonathe battlefield could actually do the job and they always come down to men. >> Well, I agree. men are victims of the draft. When I said like both also I was thinking about like how there are certain types of suffering that like only women will be able to experience
06:49:10
Shonaduring war. Like my head went to like in Gaza women who are pregnant they don't have access to like >> um like >> the medical the medical like care that is needed for that kind of situation. And like women who are breastfeeding in
06:49:23
Shonathat situation literally are drawing from their own like nutritional storage to the point where they're like becoming malnourished themselves. And like that's just an example of something I thought of that would only directly affect women
06:49:34
Shonaduring war. But obviously like by every other metric men experience like die more. >> Sure. I I think I'd be willing to grant that. >> And also women are subject to rape a lot more than men. But continue. Sorry.
06:49:44
Brian Atlas>> Um yeah, women have unique uh issues that they face in all kinds of facets of of life. Um I just think it's an interesting thing to push on. Um it you
06:49:57
Brian Atlassaying that would be aching to me saying you know what when women go through the struggles of like pregnancy you know when I'm sitting by my you know future
06:50:07
Brian Atlasgirlfriend wife's bedside and she's squeezing my hand really hard when she's pushing uh pushing a child out of her vagina that's maybe ripping her apart a little bit. >> I've been I've been there. Poor
06:50:21
Brian Atlas[laughter] Andrew's hand. Poor Andrew's hand was squeezed really hard and it was bruised for a couple days, >> but and he's the primary I'm >> actually most most of it was my wife swearing at the mid midwife and calling
06:50:33
Brian Atlasher a [ __ ] incompetent idiot, which I thought was funny. >> No, you [ __ ] idiot. I was like, >> yes, >> it'd be like us men. [laughter] us men saying well you us men are the I wouldn't say as it relates to pregnancy
06:50:46
Brian AtlasI wouldn't categorize it under like a v victimization but I'll say suffering I think women suffer from physical pain and there's probably stress related to pregnancy uh that would be like me
06:50:56
Brian Atlassaying men are the primary sufferers of pregnancy because they're they have to witness their wives being in pain and their their wife squeezes their hand really hard when they're she's giving
06:51:09
Andrew Wilsonbirth or something >> I'm a little confused reason what that has to do with what I said. >> Well, he's making he's just trying to make it the the [clears throat] analogy. It's so it works something like this. I
06:51:19
Andrew Wilsonsuffer watching all of the pain that my wife is in when she's pregnant and I suffer having to watch her give birth and it does damage to her, right?
06:51:29
Andrew Wilson>> It's very traumatic. And so the thing is though is like, but which is more traumatic? Her giving birth or me having to witness it? >> Her giving birth,
06:51:40
Andrew Wilson>> right? And so the analogy that he's drawing is like which is more traumatic, the fact that you have to witness your husband's death or you die, right? He's trying to draw the parallel.
06:51:51
Brian Atlas>> He said death was like the worst thing. Yeah, I get it. I already got with that point. >> All right, I'm going to blast through these. The pizza should be here soon. Uh let's see. Women do not have I don't
06:52:01
Brian Atlasknow if women do not have equal rights to men in the USA. Lola, you agree with that statement. Why is that? Um,
06:52:14
Lola[snorts] sorry. Before I make a bold claim, I want to make sure this is something that I do genuinely still agree with because this is something we discussed last time. Um, >> well, you circled it today. So, >> I did and then there have been, you know, eight or so hours since of
06:52:27
Loladiscussion. >> We've changed your mind on that, I guess, even though we didn't really talk about rights too much. >> Well, I do think that there was an important discussion about um defining rights, but yeah, again, that one's not
06:52:37
Lolatoo fresh [clears throat] in my mind. Um >> well rights are social constructs. >> Sure. So if we're talking like government given rights like laws and stuff then uh no I don't agree with that statement. Um if we're talking are they
06:52:50
Andrew Wilsontreated equally in society. Uh >> what government given rights? >> I'm sorry. >> What government given rights? >> I think she says that government given rights. >> Government given rights. I I think we are equal under the law. >> Okay. >> Oh okay. I see. >> Like
06:53:02
Lola>> what social rights? >> Um I I think socially women are assumed to be less competent. Um I think >> at some things I'm I mean I've been in plenty of situations where my gender doesn't necessarily play a role in the
06:53:14
Andrew Wilsonconversation being had yet >> like I don't think that women are socially viewed as being incompetent at nursing for instance. They're not usually socially viewed that way. They're not usually socially viewed at being incompetent as being kindergarten teachers. They're not
06:53:28
Andrew Wilson>> they're not at everything. >> They're only the things that men are actually more competent at. Right. No, cuz I also don't think that they're more competent at >> any example of a thing that women are viewed as being more incompetent at than
06:53:40
Andrew Wilsonmen. That isn't a thing that men Well, men are better at math than women >> based on what? >> Pull it up. You'll see the edges. >> Yes, they're better at math. Unfortunately,
06:53:51
Lola>> how is this quantified? >> Well, actually, this is easily testable just like IQ is easily testable. Yes. >> You take Okay, sure. You take a sample size of how and that represents the entire gender.
06:54:03
Lola>> They're Yes. Actually, yes. In this particular case, yes, you can quantify that men are better at mathematics than women. Yes. >> I don't necessarily think so. I think you can say a man is more likely to be better at math than a woman, but I don't think that it's fair to be treated as if
06:54:16
Andrew Wilsonit's something you can't possibly be competent in, which is something my point isn't whether or not >> it is the case that women can be viewed as less competent than men in a field. I
06:54:26
Andrew Wilsonasked you, what field is it that men are not better at that women are viewed as being incompetent in that they're
06:54:35
Lolaactually better at than men? What? >> Okay, sure. In that case, um, >> nothing. >> I can add something, >> right? Nothing. >> Can I have Could I have a moment? >> Sure. >> Um, I don't know. I think that I have
06:54:47
Andrew Wilsonbeen viewed as less competent in nearly every school subject by different people. Um, >> and that's not what I asked. What I I didn't ask >> and I don't think that's something that women >> What I asked is what socially are women
06:54:58
Andrew Wilsonviewed at being less competent in that men aren't actually more competent in >> um any history subject I've taken in school.
06:55:09
Lola>> What men are men are far there's way more historians that are men than women. [laughter] Way more. >> Okay. So is I'm going to ask you now. Is your claim going to be in regard like in whatever I say that men are just better at everything?
06:55:22
Andrew Wilson>> No. My claim will only be that in the the subjects that men or not just the subjects but occupations that men are better in than women on average are going to be the occupations that you can
06:55:33
Andrew Wilsonpoint to that women are seen as less competent than men in. And I think that that's a rightful uh social assumption because men are generally better in those fields. And the fields that women are generally better at than men,
06:55:45
Lolathey're not. I think occupations are more densely packed with men for other reasons other than competence. >> Like what? >> Oh, Brian and I have already been here. Um, women are strongly encouraged not to
06:55:58
Lolabe educated and that's only something that's been combed to be educated. >> Very, very recently. That is something that's been combed. >> How recently? >> Like the last years? No, the last 30
06:56:09
Brian Atlasyears. They've been running campaigns that women need to go to college for the last 30 years. Why do you think? Yeah, I was being I I grew up being >> told Hold on hold on really quick. Just one quick stat here. Since it's either
06:56:20
Brian Atlas1979, 1980, women have been going to college more than men. >> So women who graduated in 1980 are now 65 and they're retired. So that's an entire workforce generation of you've
06:56:32
Brian Atlashad women who have been participating in college, graduating, >> much better, >> graduating with degrees from college since the 1980s. You guys just made the argument that the Vietnam War wasn't that long ago, but the 1970s, it's
06:56:44
Lolasuddenly like stale old history. >> Well, you said 10 years ago. >> I do think that within the last 10 years is when it has become more socially pushed that women should I'll just go ahead and grant it, right? >> Okay. >> They're still not going into STEM fields.
06:56:58
Andrew Wilson>> I disagree with that. There's more women. I >> I can I also can speak >> Wait, wait, wait. >> STEM fields, >> med school, STEM. >> Well, here's the thing. Even if I grant that medical is we have to take STEM
06:57:09
Andrew Wilsonfields as all STEM fields. >> Yeah. >> Okay. But it's a very important part of STEM. Science, technology, engineering, mathematics. That's what's >> they're not going into they're not going into those fields. Why? Because they
06:57:22
Andrew Wilsonhave no interest in them. >> Yeah. I think another big part of it, >> if it's not true, then why is it that they're actually decreasing their participation in STEM? Why >> women? >> Yeah. >> I truly don't know what to tell. I'm sure that you have some stats to, you
06:57:36
Andrew Wilsonknow, >> like these aren't these aren't stats which are particularly controversial. It's either you're going in to get a degree in STEM or you ain't. >> Okay. Sure. From my perspective, I mean, I can only speak on anecdotal what I've
06:57:48
Lolaexperienced. I'm a college student right now. The majority of men I am friends with are not STEM majors. The majority of women I am friends with are STEM majors. >> Yeah, [ __ ] right. I I [ __ ] I do feel the need to point out that every time
06:58:01
Andrew Wilson>> what a croc of [ __ ] horseshit. >> Every time something doesn't align with what you believe. >> Croc of [ __ ] horseshit I've ever heard. The men, the women that you know are all going into STEM and the men aren't. What are the fields the men are
06:58:12
Lolagoing into? >> Um polyai. I have friends in econ. Um I have friends in English. I have friends in writing and literatur. >> What are the women going into that are STEM fields? >> My brilliant roommate is a biology
06:58:23
Lolamajor. Um, she's double majoring in biology and history with a um, I don't know what her minor is. >> Um, I have more female friends in biology. I have a female friend in chemistry. I have some female friends in writing and literature.
06:58:36
Willow>> You know what? I'll even grant all this to even though I think you're full of [ __ ] >> You're more than >> What are you going in for? >> Writing and literature. >> Ah, and what are you going in for? >> Psychological science. >> You college? >> I was in photojournalism
06:58:50
Melissa (Bodybuilder)out. >> Interesting. >> College. >> I didn't It's my >> But what were you going for? >> Um, kinesiology and dietetics. >> Okay. >> Health and nutrition. >> Okay. >> Computer science. >> Uh-huh. >> So, >> so one, >> it's just not
06:59:03
Andrew Wilson>> there's one. >> I'm going into STEM. I'm tryingology. I'm trying to go to med school for >> be psychiatrist. >> Yeah. That but that didn't work in your favor. >> That is [laughter] not a STEM field. >> That did not. Yeah, you just heard what
06:59:15
ShonaI said. Psychology is not a STEM field. It's a pseudocientific nonsense. >> Psychiatry. It's about understanding psychiatric medication which is heavily >> What is it called? >> Psychiatry. >> You Oh, you said you're going going in to be a psychiatrist
06:59:28
Lola>> or some other kind of doctor. I'm still open to other specialties. >> But right now, what are you in for? >> My major? >> Yeah. >> Psychological and brain sciences, which is a BS. >> Do you know what premed school is? You have to take a a [snorts] major such as
06:59:40
Brian Atlasthis to eventually get into med school. >> Tell this to my chem professor. >> Yeah, this is unbelievable. By the way, CSB there's like a pretty crazy gender ratio and like there's I think it's like 5545.
06:59:51
Brian Atlas>> So it it might actually parse just because of the gender. >> No, but it can't be possible that I'm telling the truth. >> I still don't believe it. [laughter] I just don't believe it. >> Okay. I do think that it is important to >> my major. It's a bachelor's of science. I'm
07:00:05
Shona>> It's a bachelor in [ __ ] >> I'm a [ __ ] psychology. Bachelor of [ __ ] >> Okay. Can I say? >> Yeah, you can say whatever you want. I'm supposed to take science classes all I have to take a chemistry sequence this year, a biology sequence the next year, physics sequence the next year.
07:00:18
Amouranth>> All right, let me ask you a question. You're a second year. >> I'm a first year. >> Oh, you're a first year. You just started. Okay, got it. What year are you? >> I'm a third year. >> And your literature? >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> I think historically you are correct.
07:00:30
AmouranthBut you know, we might be seeing a new future with all the independent women. Who knows? >> We ain't seeing a new future. They're not going into STEM fields. They're not doing it. No, I think mostly women, a