Andrew Wilson DEBATES Amouranth! CRASH OUT Kylie Update?! Woke College Feminists! | Dating Talk #268
Date: 2025-11-10
Duration: 7h 48m
Guests
Brian AtlasIdentified Speakers
SPEAKER_02Willow(guest)
SPEAKER_03Lola(guest)
SPEAKER_05Courtney(guest)
SPEAKER_06Shona(guest)
SPEAKER_07Andrew Wilson(guest)
SPEAKER_08Brian Atlas(host)
SPEAKER_10Melissa (Bodybuilder)(guest)
SPEAKER_11Jake(guest)
SPEAKER_12Nick Lee(guest)
SPEAKER_13Amouranth(guest)
SPEAKER_14Savannah(guest)
Key Moments
00:02:44
IntroAll panelists introduce themselves including Amouranth, Nick Lee, and Andrew Wilson
00:17:00
Key MomentAmouranth/Nick tell full home invasion story. Nick shot invader with 9mm while wife was held hostage.
00:28:00
QuoteAmouranth reveals gross OnlyFans earnings of ~$74-75 million
00:30:12
ControversyDiscussion of Amouranth's vagina yeast beer made by Polish company and bath water sales
01:39:00
Key MomentAndrew and Willow debate whether OnlyFans is prostitution. Andrew: only difference is a screen.
02:22:00
Key MomentAndrew presents force doctrine to Shona: men monopolize force, women can never collectively take rights from men.
03:00:00
Key MomentDeep moral objectivism debate. Andrew: without God, if men decide women are cattle, there's no justification against it.
03:26:00
ControversyCourtney argues women should call partners 'master.' Most panelists reject this.
06:10:00
ControversyCourtney reveals ex-husband's suicide-by-cop. She texted 'you are the cancer' day he died. Family barred her from funeral.
07:15:00
QuoteAmouranth: 'I hate sex work too. I just like the money from it a lot.'
07:18:00
AgreementShona explicitly agrees men are primary victims of war by metric of death
07:22:00
QuoteMelissa's coconut oil story: refused extra fats even during sex because of macros
“He went to put coconut oil on his dick and I was like that's way too many fats.”
Topics Discussed
00:02:44
Guest Introductions and Relationship Status
All panelists introduce themselves. Includes Amouranth/Nick, Andrew Wilson, Shona (18, UCSB), Lola, Willow, Melissa (IFBB pro), Savannah, Courtney.
00:17:00
Amouranth Home Invasion
3 armed men broke in seeking crypto. Nick shot one with 9mm. All 3 caught, face 5-999 years in Texas.
00:26:30
OnlyFans Earnings
Amouranth grossed ~$74-75M on OnlyFans. Peak $30M/year. Quarter-million-dollar single day. Vagina yeast beer by Polish company.
01:39:00
Prostitution Definition Debate
Andrew argues all sex work is prostitution. Willow distinguishes between prostitutes (with pimps) and sex workers (with choice).
02:21:00
Force Doctrine and Feminism
Andrew presents force doctrine: men monopolize force, so women always appeal to men for rights. Shona pushes back. Andrew counters with Middle East/Afghanistan examples.
03:00:00
Objective vs Subjective Morality
Deep philosophical debate. Andrew: without God, all moral claims reduce to preference. Lola argues for biological instincts.
03:26:00
Women Should Call Men Master
Courtney advocates women calling partners 'master.' Panel debates who gets tiebreaker in marriage disagreements.
04:12:00
Crash Out Kylie Update
Update on guest who claimed she was 'digitally assaulted' and threatened to sue Brian.
04:29:00
Self-Rating Looks
Most women rate 8-10. Andrew and Brian find it delusional. Discussion of objective vs subjective beauty.
06:00:00
Income Requirements
Shona: six figures. Amouranth pre-fame: $60K. Lola: doesn't matter. Melissa: $250K. Savannah: $50K.
06:10:00
Courtney's Ex-Husband Suicide
Ex died by suicide-by-cop. She texted 'you are the cancer' day he died. Told him 'you could be anyone' during oral sex. Family barred her from funeral.
06:35:00
Women Are Primary Victims of War
Andrew: death is worse than trauma, men die overwhelmingly more. Shona eventually concedes men are primary victims by death toll.
07:11:00
Body Count Reveal
Melissa ~30. Savannah ~13. Willow ~30. Lola 4. Shona 0. Andrew's husband says 'wild 20-25.'
Transcript
Page 5 of 8
04:01:51
Andrew Wilson>> Yeah. >> That's insane. How many of you women happen to find the guy with a perfect personality happens to be 6'2 and muscular? That's crazy. It had nothing to do with his physical characteristics.
04:02:02
Andrew Wilson>> I broke up I broke up with him and he looked the same the whole time. >> Yeah, you can break up You can break up with him. Sure. But the point is is like the guy before him, was he 5 foot
04:02:11
Lola[ __ ] six and bald? >> Uh he was I think 57 and uh had the forehead that was like a forehead that was his entire face. >> Yeah. And how long were you with him? >> Two years. >> And how long were you with the last boyfriend?
04:02:24
Andrew Wilson>> Two and a half. >> Uhhuh. So every time it's funny, I'm just saying it's funny to me that many times I hear women talk about how it is that No, if this guy acts like a [ __ ]
04:02:36
Andrew Wilson[ __ ] I don't mind at all. Well, it's fine. And so, you know, he, you know, I would think it was funny. It's cutesy, actually. And then you ask him about the characteristics of their boyfriend, right? And here's what you find out.
04:02:47
Andrew WilsonThey're tall and they're muscular. And they absolutely would never do that in a million [ __ ] years. Jump. Would your 6'2 muscular boyfriend go a jump up on a chair and go, "Oh my god, a rat." Would he? The truth.
04:03:00
Lola>> My ex-boyfriend. >> Yeah. Would he? >> Like, probably not. >> Yeah, probably not. I can. But also, this is one of the most feminine men I know. I'm sorry. With love, he's probably watching this. We're great
04:03:11
Lolafriends. But, um, >> he's very feminine. He's like a very feminine man. >> Okay. >> He's not tough by any means, >> but he ain't going to jump up on the [ __ ] chair and say, "Oh, a rat." >> I wouldn't be surprised if he did. I don't think logically he would.
04:03:24
Courtney>> Okay. >> I think it's interesting that you said that the trait you value most in a relationship [clears throat] was trust. >> Compromise. >> Okay. It was compromise. Okay. I thought yours was trust. So yours is trust.
04:03:36
CourtneyOkay. >> Then is is that still the the the deciding factor for you in a in a successful relationship? >> I think there are many uh deciding factors. >> You have to choose one. >> If I had to choose one, I'd say
04:03:48
Courtneycompromise, but it it it really is on equal par to a lot of other things. >> That's just an effect. That's just one means to an end for what? >> Compromise is one tool in the tool belt
04:04:02
Courtneyof your utilities. >> Yes. to achieve what a happy healthy relationship >> happiness or peace one of those two right like that's what I had said before
04:04:10
Courtneyis the most important deciding factor of a relationship is peace when you're not able to use the tools in your tool belt
04:04:21
Courtneyto accomplish said end effect whether yours is happiness or peace I mean they're kind of the same thing for me um then I think that is a a failure on this
04:04:35
Andrew Wilsonon >> but you don't advocate for compromise. You're advocating to not use the tool in your tool belt to lead to a happy relationship. >> That's horshit. >> She had nuance with her position. It
04:04:46
Andrew Wilsonwasn't simply >> compromise. The nuance was attempt to compromise and then if it doesn't >> it wasn't it was >> if the if we get to the time where it's a massive decision
04:04:57
Andrew Wilson>> and there is an impass where debate no longer works where discussion no longer works where rather than throw the relationship in the toilet she'll yield and she'll go ahead and go with the
04:05:10
Andrew Wilsonperson that she trusts who's her husband which is what she's supposed to do that is very different than saying I refuse to compromise that's saying only in the situations where like look this matters so much to him that he's unwilling to I
04:05:24
Lolaneed to trust that >> but in a situation where something matters so much to her that she's unwilling to why does it not matter >> because there has to be a tiebreaker because there's only two of you there's only two of you >> so it just it just defaults to
04:05:36
Andrew Wilson>> look you can have a relationship where you can defer to the woman for those choices but those relationships tend to not work out >> I disagree with that I don't hang on I don't care what you disagree with what we see from data itself self is that
04:05:49
Andrew Wilsonwomen want assertive men with good leadership capabilities. If that's the case, if you have good leadership capabilities, if you're unwilling to compromise, then that means that you must have some really good [ __ ] reason for it.
04:06:01
Lola>> So, if she's unwilling to compromise, then she must have really good reason for it. >> Women don't generally exert the same type of leadership abilities as men. >> I I guess generally, but again, I mean, you're just claiming that this is how relationships should function without
04:06:15
Andrew Wilson>> Well, I'm not saying that you couldn't do it the opposite way. I'm only giving you the fact that if you do do it the opposite way, they generally don't work out as well as the other way. >> Well, I don't think that it works out well either way. Someone's >> I'm sorry, I do have to move moved on to
04:06:26
Brian Atlasthe next topic. Robert Tanner. Hey, Brian from Robert Tanner. Been a while into the stream. Glad to be back. Did the panel submit to the government when they forced a shutdown and caused us to obey restrictions?
04:06:40
Brian Atlas>> Yeah, >> it's a good good question there. Uh >> a bit of obedience there, wasn't there? >> Couple quick things, guys. Hope you're enjoying the stream. Just a reminder, read is 200 TTS 300 Venmo Cash App. That's whatever pod.
04:06:53
Andrew Wilson>> And by the way, can we take a second to just say we've put on a really good show tonight. Interesting conversations. Send in those big fat super chats. We have to have them. It's necessary. We
04:07:05
Brian Atlasneed to crack another bottle of We do >> another champagne. If Clay is still in the chat, we we can definitely do it. Uh some quick shout outs. Uh Rachel Wilson on Venmo with the 20. Thank you, Rachel.
04:07:16
Brian AtlasUh, that that is Andrew Wilson's wife. Thank you, Rachel. Good to have you in the chat. DT, thank for the 10. India, thank for the five. Travis, thank for the 20. Troy, thank for the 10. MC
04:07:26
Brian AtlasRocker, thank for the 25. Appreciate it, guys. Also, let's pull up Twitch, guys. Two, Nick was fast with it. Well done, Nick. Twitch.tv/ whatever. Guys, if you have Amazon Prime, you want that, you
04:07:39
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04:07:49
Brian Atlasyou get a free Twitch Prime sub that you can use for any streamer. Every single month, you can do it by We don't even have to be live. You can just, you know, go to our channel. We're offline. You can drop a Prime. It's a
04:08:01
Brian Atlasquick, free, easy way to support the show every single month. Drop us some Prime sub. Open. If you're watching on YouTube, we have like 11,000 concurrent on YouTube. Uh, so open up a Twitch tab, twitch.tv/what whatever. Drop us a
04:08:14
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04:08:26
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04:08:37
Brian AtlasExcuse me. We're selling the Jazz Cups. Uh they don't make these anymore, by the way. Okay, this is how And by the way, this is how I don't know if I'm autistic
04:08:45
Brian Atlasor something. I am so uh I am so determined, so stubborn to have exactly these cups. I I contacted
04:08:56
Brian AtlasSolo, the company that makes these, and I was like, "Hey, could you print me a a case, which is a thousand cups?" And they're like, "No, we don't. We work
04:09:05
Brian Atlasbulk. we we need it's like a 60 case minimum by the way 60 cases is 60,000 cups and I was like how much is it like
04:09:16
Brian Atlasit's a couple thousand bucks man I was like [ __ ] it do that [ __ ] uh so I have um 60 cases 60,000 of these cups >> oh my gosh
04:09:29
Brian Atlas>> just so I and by the way it takes me probably a year to go through more than a year to go through one case so I'd have to be doing the go for 60 years to finish all these cups. I'm a [ __ ] ma
04:09:39
Brian Atlasmad man, but um I don't know where I'm going with that. But anyways, I my uh I've stored some at my parents house. They're not happy with it. Um and I've there's like 30 cases and it's it's
04:09:52
Brian Atlasactually a nightmare. But anyways, um it's for the vision. It's for the Yeah, guys, help me out here. Pull it back up, Nick. Pull I'm trying to get rid of I'm trying to [ __ ] empty the stock. They were expensive. So, uh you can you can
04:10:03
Brian Atlasget a [clears throat] sleeve. You can get a case also. Go back. Go back. Uh we're so the the we're selling the picklehoba. Picklehoba. Scroll down. Madison's pickleaba. Felicity. Felicity. Uh
04:10:16
Brian Atlasthere's like different variations. We have like six or seven of them in studio. Madison used to have one. We're selling three of them. Uh so anyways, you can support via shop to whatever. Also, join our Discord. Oh, really
04:10:27
Brian Atlasquick, uh pull up Discord. >> Yeah, that's fine. discord.gg whatever. If you're enjoying the stream, like the video. Also guys, debateuniversity.com. If you want to learn how to become a master debater like Andrew Wilson over
04:10:38
Brian Atlashere, uh, you got to check out his program, debate university. Excuse me. What the heck? >> You won't know how to proceed in life. >> Not around the holidays. I mean, you're going to have
04:10:51
Andrew Wilson>> Oh, boy. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to have your stupid liberal friends over. You're going to have your dumb liberal parents around. You're going to have your stupid liberal sister. You want to make sure that you smash their faces in verbally, of course, around that
04:11:03
Brian AtlasThanksgiving dinner. The best way that you can do that is to buy the course and you should do that. Yes, it's true. >> Andrew does raise a good point. Thanksgiving time, Christmas, you're
04:11:13
Brian Atlassitting down with the family. Many a many a familial relationship has completely degraded due to uh you know, eggnog and [ __ ] turkey and just
04:11:26
Brian Atlasgetting political. And Brian, if they're going to [ __ ] hate you the next day, you might as well win. >> Exactly. debateuniversity.com. So when you do have that Thanksgiving debate with your [ __ ] aunt, you smoke the [ __ ] out of her and completely scorch
04:11:39
Brian Atlasdirt that >> Make sure she doesn't talk to you until next Thanksgiving. [laughter] >> Yes. Get downed by your parents. Get debate.com.
04:11:49
Andrew WilsonThis is We're doing Maybe that's too far. Okay. Uh >> no. No. No, no. If it's a progressive ant, you know, get disowned, but do do it with style. Do it with style.
04:12:01
Brian Atlas>> All right. Uh Discord, guys, discord.gg/w whatever. Um >> just for the sake of time, I don't know if we'll at the end time uh time allowing, I'll I'll get into the Crash
04:12:11
Brian AtlasOut Kylie update. If you guys uh don't recall, Andrew had a heated debate with uh Crash Out Kylie and then she's lost her mind online. She got
04:12:26
Brian Atlas>> [laughter] >> Bell's Pauly and blames it on us and then she's making up all these lies like she was um >> she was >> digitally essayed. >> Well, that that's crazy. >> Digitally essayed,
04:12:38
Brian Atlas>> but she's claiming she was dishonestly lured to she didn't know what she's getting into. Nick, just click that photo the at the Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She claims we were dishonest and she didn't
04:12:50
Brian Atlasknow what she's getting into. Hi, Kylie. Hope you're doing well. would like to have you on our podcast for a debate on feminism. I don't know how that could be. I don't know if she thought we were I don't know, you know, whatever. Anyways, that was for a one v one debate
04:13:04
Andrew Wilsondifferent from the dating >> but I but I was I was too mean. >> Smoking. >> We could refer to the legal definition of essay if you prefer >> preference here. >> Yeah. Digital essay legally means
04:13:17
Andrew Wilsonsomething very differently than what she meant. Holy [ __ ] And by the way, can I can I just point this out? Um, she she threatened to sue Brian [laughter] because she lost a debate.
04:13:29
Andrew WilsonShe threatened to sue him. >> She lost him to me. >> Yes. Uh, >> I've never seen anything like this. This was like this even Desiree wasn't that [ __ ] crazy. >> Well, actually, Desiree also sent me legal threats.
04:13:41
Andrew Wilson>> Never mind. Desire was that crazy. >> Desire is definitely that crazy. And Priscilla, by the way, the >> the two women who happened to assault me. >> Who? The the girl. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Mhm. >> That does happen. >> Anyways, um
04:13:54
Brian Atlas>> one one sexually assaulted me and then the other one um >> by >> literally tried to physically assault me. >> It's wild. It's wild. Uh Nick, go back to the Discord really quick. >> If you guys want to see discord.gg/
04:14:06
Brian Atlaswhatever. Pull that. Pull up that. Yeah. Uh just go for the By the way, I post all my legal threats. I post my legal threats. It's you see it there in the whatever legal threats. You don't have to go to it, but it's there if you want.
04:14:18
Brian AtlasI post a lot on the Discord by the way guys behind the scenes legal th all this stuff. So join the Discord discord.gg/w GG/ whatever if uh speaking of legal threats if you want to see all the
04:14:29
Brian Atlasridiculous [ __ ] oh cease synthesis blah blah blah you know look if it's if it's valid you know whatever but all the most of it's just bogus uh what's the term frivolous frivolous frivol
04:14:42
Andrew Wilsonfrivolous frivolous nonsense >> I also have to shill for just a quick second >> debatecon >> debate con it's coming up the 15th 16th uh two headline debates over there uh
04:14:54
Andrew WilsonWe've already sold, I think, over 200 tickets. There's not very many left. Strongly suggest you get over there. It's going to be a blast. Um, you can get those tickets on Modern Day Debate. >> And, uh, yeah, it's going to be a blast,
04:15:06
Brian Atlasguys. So, I hope to see all of you there. It's in Nashville, Tennessee. >> I I also have to shill for for for Kate for Amaranth. Um, >> no, you don't. >> Don't worry about it. [laughter]
04:15:18
Brian Atlas>> We need more. Um she tomorrow she uh after the debate that you have scheduled. By the way, speaking of which, more shilling. Uh Andrew Wilson has a debate tomorrow. Tomorrow uh 3
04:15:29
Brian Atlasapproximately 3 p.m. Pacific. Round two with Naima. Naima from Jubilee. Round two. That's going to be big, guys. Do not miss. She's [ __ ] dumb. >> So cool. What do you mean? >> No. Be nice, Andrew. Come on. Be nice.
04:15:42
Brian AtlasYou know, she Anyways, I got to I'm going to do I'm going to show for for Emaranth here. Uh, you know, she after she we're after that debate, there's going to be a hot tub in the whatever
04:15:53
Brian Atlasstudio and there's going to be ear microphones for ASMR. No, I'm just kidding. >> I didn't bring it. You could should have told me ahead of time. Could have brought them. >> Oh, you still Do you still do the ear ASMR? >> I don't lick them anymore, but
04:16:06
Amouranth>> you still Is it like against the TLS now? >> It is. That's good because I got really tired of doing that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know what tripped me out? somebody. So, I never when I first started
04:16:17
Andrew Wilsonstreaming, I had no idea what this ASMR [ __ ] was, right? And somebody sent it to me and I was like, "What the [ __ ] is this?" Like, "Why does anybody watch this [ __ ] This is the craziest thing."
04:16:28
Andrew WilsonAnd then I started thinking about it and then side by side I put up the sound the Predator makes with the ASMR and it was [ __ ] identical. >> Wow. >> Yeah. So, like the earlickers all over
04:16:40
Andrew WilsonTwitch, I put you put up the predator the just the predator mouth going, you know, the sound it makes sounds [ __ ] identical. >> Actually, you know what? >> But Brian, it's true.
04:16:51
Andrew Wilson>> Do you know how ironic that is? The predator sound is the same sound. Just saying. >> There's something there. >> There's something there. >> There's definitely something there. >> I haven't like mean people have an alien
04:17:03
Andrew Wilsonfetish. No, I I'm not sure, but I think that there's a play on words there that I want to dive into that I don't quite have figured out, but you know. >> Uh, thank you, David. Yeah, it's Hey, by
04:17:14
Brian Atlasthe way, I'm on a diet and I'm I refuse to do Ompic raw dog in the diet. Um, actually, you know what? >> What do you mean? I've lost a ton of weight. I don't know. I don't know what you're talking about there. >> Yeah, I I lost 10 pounds. You know, it's
04:17:26
Andrew Wilsoncoming off. Um, you know what, though? Brainstorm. >> Look, the camera the the camera adds >> That's true. 100 lb. It adds 100 pounding in the studio. >> It adds 100 lb and it makes me look way
04:17:38
Brian Atlasless muscular than I actually am. >> I actually was thinking though, we should do a a dating talk panel >> hot tub stream. >> Oh, no.
04:17:50
Brian Atlas>> Not with you, Andrew. Not with me. I don't even want to be in that [ __ ] cuz >> you're suggesting it. What do you mean? [laughter] >> I know. I'll have I'll have Kate host it or I'll have Felicity. And it'll be a hot tub dating talk stream.
04:18:03
Andrew Wilson>> Would you be [clears throat] a prostitute at that point? >> No. What? No. >> Because it's sexual activity self. >> No. Hold on. Look. He'd be a pimp. It's different. >> No. No. No. No. Hang on. Hang on. Hang
04:18:15
Brian Atlason. It is different. He would be a pimp. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> You got me there. >> He would be a pimp. Yeah, I think it's different because [laughter]
04:18:24
Brian Atlasbecause uh you know you would be people go in hot tubs and that's not inherent. >> Why don't you just Why don't you just put on the pimp hat, Brian? Like that's what you're saying.
04:18:35
SPEAKER_09>> By the way, let's get [laughter] without the uh >> Oh, he's laying the hair down. >> Oh, >> wait. You got to do slow-mo like, you know, wave. Oh, [ __ ] >> I swear to God, you're exactly what I
04:18:48
SPEAKER_09envisioned an Asian pimp would look like. I'm just [laughter] going to point that out. Okay. Oh [ __ ] Um, that is crazy. >> Oh, me. Why would you
04:19:01
Brian Atlas>> How did you get his voice lines? >> That's insane. >> Crazy. >> Whoa. Okay, so anyways, uh, here moving on to some new topics here. >> I would never
04:19:12
Brian Atlas>> moving on to some new topics. Uh, continuing though with Courtney's notes. Courtney, you say women's highest good
04:19:20
Brian Atlas>> isn't bearing children. It's the same as a man's, which is self-sacrifice. >> I mean, child birth could be >> Let me Let me add a little bit here
04:19:31
Brian Atlasbecause you wrote some more. You say you disagree vehemently. Did I say that right? >> Wait, wait, wait. [laughter] That women should You disagree that
04:19:43
Brian Atlaswomen should be at home barefoot and pregnant. She should find her purpose with alignment of the man she chooses to date. It is this reason you disagree that a woman's greatest joy is rear
04:19:54
Brian Atlasrearing children. It first is beholden to her husband herself then children or godhusband children herself or husband children herself if that is what her man
04:20:05
Courtneychooses for her. I think it's uh I may have been a little bit of word vomit there, but I do believe that in essence self-sacrifice
04:20:16
Courtneypeople, it's like self-sacrifice. It's it's it's my my in essence, it's about not just going and making a sandwich, going and making human
04:20:25
Courtneysandwich that makes a woman the the the most obedient type of helpmate. I believe, you know, not all women can
04:20:35
Courtneybear children and and and not all men want or want want children. Um, and I and I think that that doesn't make
04:20:43
Courtneypeople less at all. I think what makes people valuable to society is when they can emulate what self-sacrifice looks like. Whether it's self-sacrifice to
04:20:54
Andrew Wilsonyour work to your uh spouse to your you know your if you can have children children um to education to something philanthropic you know >> is there any higher value a woman who
04:21:06
Courtneycan have children have for self-sacrifice than having children. >> So um I mean the same thing can be posed to a man if a man is >> before you pose it to a man. Okay, I'm [clears throat] I'm Okay, I'm going to
04:21:18
Courtneyanswer your question first, but then I'd like to reverse it. But with a woman that is fertile is >> what's a higher sacrifice she can make
04:21:28
Courtneythan having children? I believe it's going to be as the man as the helpmate of the man to serve as like I said like I believe that she should call him
04:21:40
Courtneymaster in a relationship meaning that she surrenders if so if she truly loves this person think about what surrendering what that means that means
04:21:52
Courtneyyou're at peace that you trust this person that you trust this person with your life that you know a lot of people, we want to think, we want to fight, we want to argue, we want to like be upset
04:22:04
Brian Atlasand offended by something. >> Wait, really quick, just as a clarification, because I don't know if it's even worth getting into this. I might just smooth it on, but you're not anti-natalist, correct? >> No, >> no, it's just um >> she's giving she's giving an order of
04:22:17
Andrew Wilsonhierarchy, which makes sense. She's saying husband, >> that's the that's the >> she's not god believing, I suppose. So, so otherwise, >> yeah. So, it goes well, right? But
04:22:27
Andrew Wilson>> wouldn't it wouldn't it be God, right, and then husband then children? That's the hierarchy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, that makes sense. >> Okay, I'm going to come back to some of your other notes, Courtney. I'm going to
04:22:39
Brian Atlastry to get some of the other panelists in. Uh let's see. We have Sav. Uh your dating experience has been a roller coaster. Last relationship ended
04:22:49
Brian Atlasin calling off an engagement. Uh, you called it off or? >> Um, he called it off. >> Okay. He called it off. You say your ex-
04:23:00
Savannahfiance proposed to you with a hat. >> Yeah. So, we were at a music festival. Um, he went by captain. I knew the >> propos that hat. >> No, it was a captain's hat cuz he went
04:23:10
Savannahby captain and so is his way of proposing in his mind. Oh, in his mind, um, presenting me a captain's hat, saying, "You're my co-
04:23:21
Savannahcaptain," was his way of proposing. Um, I also had anticipated that there would be a ring. I didn't know about the hat. Um, but yeah, we were at a music festival and he proposed with the hat. And then
04:23:34
Savannah>> he took it back two days later. >> At the festival, after sleep deprivation and party favors and seeing me interact with my best friend too affectionately, I don't know. I was excited. My best
04:23:47
Andrew Wilson>> Was your best friend a man? >> Yeah. He flew across the country to be there to support and I was >> So your uh So your your best friend happened to be a man. >> Yeah. And he said, "Yeah, you were affectionate after he proposed to you." So he pulled the proposal.
04:24:00
Savannah>> Well, he decided that I was a witch who had manipulated him into proposing to me with [clears throat and laughter] my seductive power. And he no longer agreed to wanting to be. >> Are you a witch?
04:24:12
Andrew Wilson>> Well, now hang [laughter] hang on. >> You have a duck. I have I have some I have some questions. So >> yeah, maybe that's the post talk justific. By the way, are you into witchcraft?
04:24:22
Savannah>> Um, no. I don't practice. I mean, I have like my own rituals that I do. Um, >> that sounds like practicing, >> I [laughter] guess. >> What are your rituals? What are >> they? Usually if I do ritual things, I'm
04:24:33
Savannahpracticing them, right? >> I mean, just practicing like um scripting things and writing things that I want to achieve almost as a manifestation. Yeah, like affirmations and manifestation and choosing
04:24:45
Andrew Wilson>> manifestation. >> Choosing times that are like under a full moon, I'll release things that aren't. [laughter] I guess it's witchy >> a little bit. You're trying to manifest things under a full moon. It's a little bit witchy, but here's the thing. It's like, okay, so you so you are indeed a
04:24:59
Andrew Wilsonwitch. >> Okay. >> And [laughter] and out flies your supportive bestest buddy who happens to have a penis. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> After this guy proposed to you and he
04:25:12
Savannahthought you were a little too affectionate with him. And was he right? Were you too affectionate with him? >> I mean, I was hugging him and spending time with him, catching up, but I don't know if to
04:25:23
Savannah>> in Mortal Kombat that was called a brutality. to his perspective and to his friend's perspective. I guess that I was um >> his friend his friend thought you were a little too >> I guess there were conversations being
04:25:34
Savannahhad about my friend being there, having problems with my friend being there, um having problems with me being so close and affectionate and wanting to spend time with him. Um >> now let me ask the ultimate question, the truth now.
04:25:46
Savannah>> Yeah. >> This best friend that you flew out, have you ever slept with him before? >> No, absolutely not. From the beginning of our relationship, we established that we wanted to just be friends. >> Made out with him? >> No. >> Nothing? >> No.
04:26:00
Brian Atlas>> Are you still friends with him? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um All right. Uh is there You said that your dating experience has been a roller coaster. I mean, no offense. I
04:26:11
Brian Atlasmean, this seems like pretty milk toast. like okay proposed but there was like jealousy. >> When you say like when [snorts] you say roller coaster
04:26:22
Savannah>> like what is the number one example you could provide like of the craziest >> roller coaster? I don't know. Um, I dated somebody who was like I'm not sure
04:26:32
Savannahwhat he was diagnosed with because he tried to deny all of his diagnoses, but it was very toxic and he was threatening to take his own life in front of me and
04:26:43
Brian Atlasjust various things to try to manipulate me into I don't even know whatever position or thing he decided for the day. >> Toxic abusive. Got it. Um, moving to
04:26:54
WillowWillow. Uh, you've said you've been with some alcoholics. One of your exes used to pee on the bathroom floor. >> Yeah, that was like one of his most common things when he would black out drink. Um I would like know to check the
04:27:07
Willowbathroom outside the door and if the light was off and he was in there for too long, there was more than likely going to be urine on the floor. >> Okay. Uh you wrote something about mama's credit card boy. >> What? [laughter] >> Mama's credit card boy.
04:27:19
Willow>> Yeah. I dated like my one rich guy in my life and he was just like absolutely horrendous. Like he never trimmed his nails. He never covered his food with tin foil and put it in the fridge. He was dirty. He was mean. He's just like
04:27:30
Willowvery spoiled and like it was very predominant that like he knew that like he had money and he could just go like get whatever he wanted and like his phone wasn't loading fast enough trying to smash it or like throwing a vape across the room cuz it wasn't working
04:27:44
Brian Atlasand just very like >> Gotcha. Yeah. >> Okay. Um you final note from you Willow. You said feminism and how being a feminist includes respecting men and
04:27:53
Willowtruly acting as if you respect women. >> Yeah. I think um like when it comes to feminism, it's about not just having a place for women. It's also about having a place for like everyone as a whole. And cuz like I'm a big fan of Roma's
04:28:06
Willowarmy and that's a big part of like what I watch a lot and people that I engage with on social media. >> Would have been nice if she had shown up for that debate. >> I wish she was here today for that. But I do I well she's an anti I'm an an tech technically an anti-feminist feminist. I
04:28:19
Willowdon't believe I don't agree with how modern feminism is today. I think that having a space for men's emotions creating safe spaces for men to exist and to also like be vulnerable and like
04:28:30
Willowyou know just create safety and accept that like men can be treated just as poorly as women can. Women do use their places of like like how we could hit a man and it can be a whole or they can hit us and they will go to jail, you
04:28:43
Willowknow, and like you can turn around and beat your husband for years and what is he just like a you know the P word and like nobody like ever tends to believe them and I think like having spaces for men is just as important as spaces for women. You guys are just as valuable.
04:28:57
Brian AtlasSo, >> all right. Um, here we're going to do uh before we get into some of the notes from some of the other panelists, asminold TV here, ask everyone to rate their own looks. >> Is that actually Asen Gold TV?
04:29:10
Brian Atlas>> Probably. >> Probably. Ask everyone to rate their own looks on a scale of 1 to 10. You can't pick seven. Own looks, physical looks, scale of 1 to 10. >> I'm curious. Based on what? Like
04:29:22
Shonasocietal beauty standards? >> Whatever. Whatever you want to use. Well, I'm just curious because there's like no there's no such thing as objective, right? So like societal beauty standard standards are also
04:29:33
Shona>> objective then >> I don't rate myself. I mean I'm like I'm like comfortable with Okay, look, I'll say I'm comfortable with how I look. Obviously society I'm not going to be like what the most people might find
04:29:45
Andrew Wilsonmost conventionally attractive and someone might rate me super low. >> So if somebody if somebody said that you were a three, can you tell me would you disagree with them? Well, they might truly I might truly
04:29:58
Andrew Wilsonreally not be their preference, right? Everything's made up of preferences. >> Would you disagree with them? >> Well, I think I look better than they think I am. >> Great. Whatever that number is, give us that. Whatever that number, Hang on. What? Whatever that number is. Hang on. Hang on. Whatever that number is that
04:30:11
Andrew Wilsonyou disagree with them and you think you are, then give us that one. >> I don't know what number I think I am cuz >> Well, I mean, you disagreed with him if he said you were a three. So, you know, you're not that number. So, whatever the number is that you think you hang on, hang on. Whatever. Hang on. Hang on.
04:30:23
Andrew WilsonHang on. Hang on. Whatever number you think he you are that made you disagree with him when he said you were a three. Tell us what that is. >> I mean when I think about this number
04:30:34
Shonait's like like it's it's always like this kind of question is always based on societal beauty standards cuz I can say I'm completely comfortable with >> which many of which are universal. >> Right. But I thought we said there's no such thing as like objective or
04:30:48
Brian Atlasuniversal. >> So universal morality is different than >> Okay. I mean I can talk about universal like as in societal beauty. >> Okay. But so so beauty it's not it's not objective in like a strict philos.
04:30:59
Brian Atlas>> Can you not interrupt? >> Shut kind. Oh my god. >> Go on. >> So it's not objective in a strict philosophical sense but it's not purely
04:31:10
Brian Atlassubjective either. It's not just in the eye of the boulder. Mhm. >> So I I think it's at least partially grounded in objective measurable things.
04:31:23
Shona>> Okay. So that's what I was saying earlier. If I'm considering how like across society how like people would rate me like I don't know maybe like a 6.5. I don't know. That's my guess. >> So closer. >> I gave you a number. >> But you can't pick seven. But you pick 6.5.
04:31:36
Shona>> Well it says >> so if you had to pick six or you had to pick eight. I'll pick a six purely because I mean I don't I don't Okay. Yeah. >> Uh Kate, what about you? >> 10. >> Love it.
04:31:49
Nick Lee>> Eight. >> Closer to the mics if you can, guys. You We got We heard it. >> 10. >> You don't think you're an eight? >> No, no, no. You're 10. >> I really do think I'm an eight. Like, like we're just saying looks only, right? Like no other factors. Yeah, I think it's fine.
04:32:02
Brian Atlas>> What? >> All right. Wait, you think he's >> pretending to be humble? >> You have You have a thing for Asian guys. I mean, I get it. [laughter] What? >> Okay. Mr. Watch is Sex in the City.
04:32:15
Brian Atlas[laughter] >> Hey, look, it's it's there's a lot of real like relatable, you know, is, you know, stuff. >> Say R&D. Just say R&D. >> It was research. Um, [laughter] but so Andrew, that's that's kind of not
04:32:28
Andrew Wilsonmean to say, you know. >> I'm not mean. I'm not being mean. >> He's being nice. >> Yeah. What are you talking about? Do you think he's higher than an eight or lower? Com, >> you know, compared to like the uh the
04:32:39
Andrew Wilsonnorms of beauty stand. No, of course not. He's like, you know, [ __ ] [ __ ] bag like you. You what? What are we all fives? No, I'm less than that. I'm like four or three. >> Yeah. >> All right. Um here, let's let's let
04:32:52
Melissa (Bodybuilder)everybody answer first though before we get into the >> 10. >> But >> sorry, bud. Eight. >> Eight. Okay. I definitely don't fit into societal beauty standard norms. So, I'm going to say nine.
04:33:07
Melissa (Bodybuilder)I mean, I there was even a comment like I look I would have said 11, but >> I think I'm beautiful. >> I'm just saying that because what she's saying about like norms, I'm not normal. >> There there's how comfortable you feel with yourself and then there's like how
04:33:20
Brian Atlasother people are going to regard you. There's a distinction. >> If we're considering how other people are going to regard me, I'm not normal looking, >> but I'm going to give myself >> Is that confusing, Andrew? What about like just facial attractiveness? Like so you're you're talking about like because
04:33:33
Brian Atlasyou do bodybuilding, right? But that really doesn't change like face face much. >> I'll give my face a 10. >> Okay. What about you? >> Uh I would say a nine. >> Uh okay. What about you? >> Uh one.
04:33:46
Andrew Wilson>> Okay. Come on. Really? >> I just I just reject societal beauty standards. >> All right. I'm going to go have a cigarette. This is the most ridiculous numbers I've ever heard in life. >> This is actually really pretty. Can I join you?
04:33:58
Andrew Wilson>> This is the worst. The worst I've ever seen. The worst. >> Why would I not be able to say I think I'm a nine? >> Cuz you're not. >> [ __ ] It's not not even not in any
04:34:09
Andrew Wilson[ __ ] conceivable universe in anywhere that that there's alien life. >> 10. So I agree. She's nine. >> It's not even possible. How would you ever rate yourselves as a nine? This is the most beautiful [ __ ] women on
04:34:20
Savannahplanet Earth are a nine. What? Where do these [ __ ] delusional shook come? I got to have a smoke. All right. She I don't understand why I'm not allowed to believe something >> all kinds of [ __ ] that ain't true. People do it all the time.
04:34:31
Savannah>> Okay. But I confidently see something in myself. Is the question how I am viewed by society or how I view myself? Cuz I have >> Shouldn't that be somewhat grounded in
04:34:43
Brian AtlasYes. How like so beauty would be something to some degree external to you? Like your physical appearance absent mirrors and smartphones that is
04:34:52
Brian Atlassomething interpreted by externalities, other people. >> Okay. >> So, here maybe we can ask a different question then. So, okay. You think this,
04:35:03
Brian Atlasyou think you're nine going around the table, what uh whatever your rating is, what do you think if uh you're in a room with a cross-section of a 100,000 men?
04:35:15
Brian AtlasWhat do you think they would rate you on average? I guess starting with you and then we'll go that way. >> Me? >> No, you. me.
04:35:24
Courtney>> Yes, you do. Oh my god. >> Okay. Um Okay. So, the the question is is cross-section 100,000 men. >> Your the average rating of Oh my god.
04:35:36
Courtney>> Oh man. The average rating that they would rate me. Okay. >> Yes. Do you want to repeat it one more time? >> No. Not particular. >> Do you want to answer the question, please? >> I a one. >> At that rate, I would say
04:35:49
Brian Atlas>> that's just a troll answer. Okay. What about you? >> I would say a six. A six. Okay. What about you? Into the mic, please. >> Nine. >> Nine. Okay.
04:36:01
Brian Atlas>> I'd still think I'm an eight. >> Well, that doesn't really answer the question. You would still think you're an eight. >> Like based on what >> they would rate you an eight. Or you >> So, yeah, >> they would rate you a three, but you would still think you're an eight.
04:36:13
Willow>> No, I would still think they would rate me an eight. I've like have lost a ton of weight. I do like even though I'm a little more baggy, I actually have a pretty general preferred body type. I do have plenty of men who come up to me in places and find me attractive and
04:36:26
Willowmessage me and I have followings on social media and I don't understand why like just cuz I'm covered up. Like I have a very preferred curvy body type. My personality is enjoyable. Even though I haven't gotten to show that in almost 6 hours on this podcast, but I'm a
04:36:39
Willowpretty cool person. So person like looks wise, personalitywise, like education wise, background wise. Yeah, I would be an eight, but I'm not Angelina. >> It's about looks. It's about looks. So why would your personality and your education matter? I'm just I'm just
04:36:52
Willowadding that in. And I am still on the point. Yeah. I would think I would be an eight in most men's eyes if they were all like a hundred men rated me. Yeah, I would. >> Can we You mentioned like related to
04:37:02
Brian Atlaslooks. You have a more curvy body. Can we break down the looks rating your own looks rating face and then body? >> Yeah, I do have a nice I mean I don't think my face is pretty terrible. Like I
04:37:14
Willowhave a pretty nice face. I've always if anything had a nice face going for me more than anything else. So, I don't understand like if you're not attracted to my face, that's fine. But it tends to be actually that or like my breasts or
04:37:26
Willowmy my like waistline tends to be what men most men prefer about me is my face or like my body type. >> Okay. Um, so if you had to rate your face and rate your body separately, what would you what would the rating be?
04:37:39
Brian Atlas>> I wouldn't rate them differently. >> Well, you said your looks are eight. So, is the face eight, body eight? >> I would still Yeah, they're both eights. Yeah. I >> But is it like body nine, face seven or both eight?
04:37:51
Brian Atlas>> Both eight. >> Both eight. Okay. What about you, Lola? >> 10.
04:38:00
Lola>> So, a 100,000 men are in a room. You think the average rating you'll get is a 10? >> I'm going to be You're going to hate my answer. Um, I truly do think that I have
04:38:12
Lolaa very warped perception of how I look. I don't think that I really have any grasp of how other people view me and I personally don't have any interest in knowing. So when I say 10, that is
04:38:24
Lolabecause I think that any number could be equally as likely. I wouldn't be surprised if they all said one. I also wouldn't be surprised if they all said 10. I truly have very little idea of how I'm perceived. And I'm perfectly okay
04:38:35
Lolawith that. So if I'm going to take a shot in the dark, I'm going to I'm going to guess the one that I do personally believe myself to be. even if I don't know other people's perspectives. >> So you couldn't
04:38:49
Lola>> like >> you you think one would be just as likely as five [snorts] >> if we're talking like statistically I
04:38:58
Brian Atlasguess five is the most likely because it'll average out to it. I don't know. >> Well, so you can it sounds like you can make a determination cuz you said well it could be 10. It could be one. >> I wouldn't be surprised if every person
04:39:12
Lolain that room said 10. And I wouldn't be surprised if every person in that room said one. >> How? Wait, that doesn't even make sense. >> I think that my beauty standards are wildly different than everyone else I interact with. >> What are your beauty standards? >> You're going to hate it.
04:39:24
Lola>> Okay, what? Go ahead. >> Um, I think that there are very few features that I would ever look at and find unattractive. I think it's more based on facial balance. I think that people can have features that don't work well together, but I don't think that
04:39:37
Lolathere is any inherent feature that makes someone uglier. It just is if it doesn't work with their other features. if they're fat. >> That I don't think that in my I [snorts] don't think that it's wrong if that affects other people's beauty standards. For me, I personally don't find it unattractive. >> Yeah. How many fat people you've been
04:39:51
Lolawith? >> Umly obese. >> The truth. >> Uh the amount of morbidly obese people I've ever known in my life are maybe two. Uh and they are far out of my age range to date.
04:40:03
Lola>> You've never met anybody's fat in your own age range? Come on. genuinely I do not like I can't think of people who have ever been close in my life >> that yeah >> just [clears throat] like decoding all
04:40:14
Andrew Wilsonthe [ __ ] is going to take forever. It really I mean it really mystery I know you're listening Mr. enigmatic. Just do the raid. Just do the raid over to whatever. Go to sleep. We have a
04:40:25
Andrew Wilsondebate tomorrow. Just do the [ __ ] raid. I already know. You poor guy. Just go to sleep. Just go to sleep. >> Um Okay. Um what about you? 100,000 women. What do you think they rate >> in the West? Probably a six. I'd go down
04:40:39
Brian Atlasthere. >> What What about in um [clears throat] >> I think Asia is a strong eight. >> But are you Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese? >> Taiwanese. Okay. >> See, that makes more sense. That's more reasonable. That's rational. >> Okay. What Kate?
04:40:51
Amouranth>> I would say if it's compared to other influencers, probably like an eight, maybe a seven even. But if you compare me to just a 100 average women in a Tex in Walmart, 11. >> Okay. [laughter]
04:41:03
Andrew Wilson>> Yeah. The thing is though is that like it's hard to beat you up on a beauty standard because you're one of the most famous Twitch streamers, sex workers, whatever. It's like the the value the net worth.
04:41:15
Andrew WilsonIt's very it's very difficult to be like, "Oh, 30 million [ __ ] dollars worth of uh worth of men uh seem to uphold that as a beauty standard." So, it's really hard to disagree with that, but I mean, man, >> yeah,
04:41:28
Shona>> some of these answers were really [ __ ] bad. >> What about you? >> I think a hundred men would rate me >> 100,000 >> 100,000 men would rate me like either a
04:41:37
Brian Atlassix or a seven. And I'll say six. Okay. Um, wow. I'm uh Okay, there are some in little little high
04:41:48
Brian Atlasestimates. I I I think um what's I guess my question, why don't averagelooking women just say they're averagel looking? I'm a
04:42:00
Amouranthyou know, they say you're an averagel looking woman. I'm average. Why can't women say that? I think they perceive their value too much from society as being attractive for one and the other one is nowadays with especially with
04:42:12
Amouranthsocial media they are gas lit to believe they're more attractive than they are by desperate cummers in their comments and DMs. >> Sure. And you know there's this uh >> ain't easy.
04:42:22
Brian Atlas>> There's this concept of Dunn and Krueger. It typically applies more so to people's self assessment of their own intelligence. So people typically uh as you tend to get a bit more stupider
04:42:35
Brian Atlas>> stupider >> stupider as you get stupider >> girls go to Jupiter >> Jupiter [laughter] >> you tend to start to overestimate your own intelligence and I actually think this is somewhat related also to
04:42:47
Brian Atlasattractiveness. Um, I think people have a tendency to overestimate their own attractiveness in the same sort of way that uh the sort of cognitive bias that is observed with
04:42:58
Brian Atlasthe Dunning Krueger effect as it relates to intelligence. But um I guess to the the I don't the 10, the eight, the nine,
04:43:10
Brian Atlasthe nine. Well, you gave a troll answer. Um, what if we instead of using a number, if we could if we could use an adjective.
04:43:21
Brian AtlasDo you think you are beautiful? >> Yes. >> Do you think you are beautiful? >> Absolutely. >> Do you think you're beautiful? >> Yes. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. Are you gorgeous?
04:43:34
Savannah>> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Are you stunning? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Yes. Not every day. [laughter] >> Okay. Sure. >> Okay. And I have one more. Are you
04:43:48
Willowcoping? [laughter] >> I don't care if I'm pretty. >> No. The answer. Are you coping? >> No. There's nothing to cop. >> Okay. Are you coping? >> What do you Can you like elaborate what you mean by that? >> You don't know what coping is? >> Well, like I know what coping mechanisms
04:44:00
Willoware. I just don't know what you mean by like that in comparison to this statement is all. >> Oh. Well, I mean that sounds like cope. Are you coping? >> I don't I don't think so. Are you coping? >> I don't think so. Okay, I have a I have
04:44:13
Andrew Wilsona different metric. I was thinking about this the entire plane ride down like how can I rephrase this question? And I think I have the best [ __ ] way to phrase this. So, I'm going to try it this way. Um, so have you ever heard the
04:44:26
Andrew Wilsonlike wouldn't look twice at her? Who's ever heard that? Anybody? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I say if a guy would look twice, you're a two. So, every time he would look right, that ups your
04:44:37
Andrew Wilsonscore, right? So that's what that's what I think. So based on that, how many times if a guy was passing by, would he look look? >> That's not fair because how many times does Gorlock get relooked at? You know, [laughter]
04:44:50
Andrew Wilson>> is that why she's a 10? >> Well, hang on, hang on. I think that people purposely try to look away from Gorlock. That's what I think. They like wouldn't look twice literally is Gorlock. You look and they go, "Oh my
04:45:01
Andrew Wilsongod." And you don't ever want to look again. So that's my rebuttal. So based on based on 1 to 10, based on that criteria, what's your number? >> I was just going to say I don't look at someone I perceive a 10 out of 10.
04:45:14
Nick Lee>> What's your number? >> Uh higher than 10. They won't stop looking sometimes. >> Five, six. [laughter] >> Women look at you six times. They're like, well, >> well, it depends. You're saying like like that like like that they have like a
04:45:27
Andrew Wilson>> That's beautiful, though. That's that's what that looks like when they're like they just can't keep their eyes off you, right? >> You Okay. How about when I first met you? >> Sure. Okay. >> How what would you have rated yourself then? >> Probably eight nine. >> Yeah. Okay. All right.
04:45:41
Andrew Wilson>> Yeah. I'm not saying they're [ __ ] I'm just saying like they can't keep their eyes off. They just keep looking, you know, like All right. >> 10. >> I'd still say, but I can't say seven, but I would probably pick that. I drop
04:45:53
Willowit down. But I would give myself about an eight still, just because regardless of what you think in Chicago, I'm an attractive woman there. Okay? And it's not >> But it's not about listen. Nobody's saying any woman here is not attractive. That's not what's being stated. Not at
04:46:07
Willowall. >> I'm not saying like I've watched this show enough to know that like I would never say I'm a 10 because I'm not an Angelina Jolie. I'm not a Carrie Broadshaw Shaw from >> Sex. She's not a 10. Okay, let's not. >> You don't. Well, but see that's a
04:46:19
Willowsubjective thing because in my mind I think Carrie Bradshaw is a [ __ ] excuse my language a smokehow. I think she is a 10. She's incredible looking sex in the city. >> Yeah. And I would have that kind of
04:46:30
Willowfashion. Her curls. Her curls. I would kill to have curls like her. She is gorgeous. >> Do you agree with me that Sarah Jessica Parker is ugly as [ __ ] >> Callie and you have like all these gorgeous Calli. >> Like, hey, would you agree with that
04:46:42
Brian AtlasSarah Jessica Parker is [ __ ] objectively ugly? >> No, I think she's gorgeous. >> She's not ugly. Andrew, >> she's [ __ ] ugly. That chick is an ugo.
04:46:53
Brian Atlas>> No, she was always an ugo. >> She But she's she's like a six. >> Oh, wait. Bro, >> Carrie Br. >> I'm being Sarah. >> Jessica Parker.
04:47:06
Andrew Wilson>> Yeah. Yeah. See, he looked up the image. He knows. Show the image of Sarah. Jessica Parker. >> And Jesse Ray is a 10, so don't get that. >> Oh, it's so bad. >> Well, so she's like in her 50s or some [ __ ] now.
04:47:16
Andrew Wilson>> No, I mean, in her prime she was Ugo. >> No, she she's not an ugly woman. >> She was an ugly woman. >> She's not an ugly woman. She's like averageish looking. >> She has the nose of the wicked witch of
04:47:28
Lolathe West, bro. Carrie Bradshaw, Sarah Jessica Parker. >> Yeah, the chick would suck all the oxygen out of the room by sitting in it. It's so bad. >> People pay to have a nose like >> I I don't know. Maybe it's just that people find different things attractive.
04:47:41
Brian AtlasCould that be it? >> I don't know who we're talking about. Who is this woman? >> Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. >> I just again my question is why can't just averagelooking women just say that they're averagel looking?
04:47:54
Lola>> Cuz average doesn't mean anything in this context. >> It does. >> No. Yes, it does. >> Okay, if you want to round up 100,000 men and have them rate us, then sure, we can find an average. But other than that, we're guessing. >> If we actually did the experiment where
04:48:06
Brian Atlaswe had 100 or a thousand men in a room and they were being reasonable with their rate, you know, they weren't being [ __ ] [ __ ] giving you a one or whatever, would you accept their like would you change your own rating? Would
04:48:18
Lolayou accept their rating of you >> of my own perception of myself? No. But if you if you asked me the question like if 100,000 men were in a room and raided you and then we actually did that. Yeah, I would accept that as the answer to that question. >> Would it influence your own
04:48:30
Brian Atlasself-perception? No. >> To have that many people arrive at an average? >> No. >> Okay. All right. >> Interesting. I'm just curious for I
04:48:41
Brian Atlasguess these [ __ ] stunners right here. These [laughter] four [ __ ] I mean I >> So these are Hold on really quick. >> Stunning. really quick. Rate me and I
04:48:53
Brian Atlaswon't be offended. You can. >> Just my looks though. Just my looks. Rate me. >> Two. >> Six. >> Not you, Andrew. Six. Okay. >> Four. >> Four. >> I'd give you a six or seven. >> Six or seven. >> Six.
04:49:05
Brian Atlas>> Six. So, just to be clear, y'all I would uh y'all would be settling for me. Like, you would be doing me You would be doing me a favor. Just Just to be clear, you'd be doing me a favor.
04:49:18
Willow>> Um, no. Like I mean on my level of like what I would find attractive in a man and rate you I still like for me personally average is like five to eight. Just cuz I gave myself an eight doesn't mean that I don't think that's like an average rating. There's like you
04:49:30
Willowknow it's not like mid-range. I don't think like I'm as beautiful as she is. But also I don't think her beauty takes like away from mine. You know what I mean? And for you it's like you are still an attractive person. And I wouldn't I understand
04:49:42
Willow>> I don't think you're like >> but I would like to ask you hair and [ __ ] You got a thick beard. Like most men don't even have hair. Like you're above everything. >> Can I ask you a question though? Course. >> Can you describe what an ugly woman looks like? >> I don't really know how to describe that
04:49:56
Andrew Wilsoncuz I don't believe there's things that >> Could you describe what an ugly woman looks like? >> Like not off the top of my head. >> Could you describe what an ugly woman looks like? >> Go ahead. >> Okay. Um well, someone mentioned like
04:50:08
Melissa (Bodybuilder)>> someone mentioned um like imbalanced features. that is like biologically, you know, um unattractive to have very imbalanced features. Uh probably like
04:50:18
Melissa (Bodybuilder)dull skin, looks like she doesn't take care of herself. Um I think >> I was just going to say obesity is unattractive for me. A big thing is um
04:50:30
Melissa (Bodybuilder)you can you mentioned this earlier. You can tell someone's um uh things that they like care about about themselves by >> by the way that they take care of themselves
04:50:43
Brian Atlas>> and their >> Oh my god. No, dude. What are you doing? >> Oh no. >> Holy [ __ ] What are you [ __ ] doing? >> I'm sorry. I messed this up.
04:50:55
SPEAKER_09>> Bro, >> how do I get stream back?
04:51:00
SPEAKER_09All right.
04:51:05
Melissa (Bodybuilder)>> So, back to this. >> Back to this. Yeah. Yeah. So, >> I think imbalanced features and signs that someone doesn't take care of themselves from the inside.
04:51:15
Andrew Wilson>> Yeah. Like for instance, things going against me, old, got a gut, don't really work out too much. I do now, but not as much as I should. I smoke. All those things would be signs of unattractiveness. Makes sense, right?
04:51:28
Andrew Wilson>> I mean, I like nicotine, too. But yes. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. Well, nicotine's different than smoking. >> That's true. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> What's that? >> I smoke a little. >> You smoke, too? Okay. But >> I I quit the vapes, but I smoke. >> Yeah. But you get the point, right? Like
04:51:40
Andrew Wilsonit it it makes sense to me. So, using those standards, are you able to apply those standards to the women who are sitting next to you and say that you disagree with their rating of themselves? >> Yes. >> Yes. And do you?
04:51:54
Andrew Wilson>> I'm not going to do it. >> I know. I know. I'm not asking you to I know that we're in the box of be nice. I'm just saying >> this is purely like without knowing person. >> Look, I get it. I'm not trying to get you in the box if you're mean. I'm not
04:52:05
Andrew Wilsontrying to I'm just trying to demonstrate that like even amongst yourselves you don't even agree with the ratings of the people who are saying the ratings. Like in your head in your head as the ratings
04:52:16
Andrew Wilsonare going on, just raise your hand. And if if I'm if I'm full of it, go ahead. You don't have to raise your hand. But when a woman gave a rating based on what they think society would rate her as,
04:52:27
Andrew Wilsonright? Raise your hand if you disagreed with any of them. >> Are you asking everyone? >> Everyone. >> Yeah. So, I mean,
04:52:38
Willowmakes me think that there might be a wee bit of delusion going on. That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying. My only disagreement was though just hers because I don't think she's the one and it's like just feel like I just don't think she should be giving herself that
04:52:52
Willowmuch. >> Well, that's the distinction between humility. >> That's like the only one. Other than that, I think everybody was really on point with how they I mean I think she's Jesse Ray's twin like and I think Jesse Ray is gorgeous. She's a singer and I think she literally looks exactly like she could be Jesse Ray's twin and she's
04:53:05
Brian Atlaslike a really >> Can you tell me a famous person who's a 10 that you think a famous woman who you think is a 10? Um, >> into the mic, please. >> I'm sorry. Give me I'm I'm really trying to recall names. >> Give me a famous person who you think is
04:53:18
Brian Atlasa nine? >> A woman? >> Um, >> is Megan Fox a nine? >> Sure. She's a 10. >> Okay. So, you're one point down from Megan Fox. I've just been in enough experience
04:53:33
Savannahthat that's just been something that has been >> when you say men break their necks >> like the the factor of how many times they look at you that gives you a rating. I've been in experiences I was just in a club the other night where we
04:53:46
Brian Atlashad to ask a guy to stop looking at me. >> Yeah, we did. >> And I'm sorry that you don't believe that that's my experience or not. >> I I think that muddied the water, Andrew, that thing because now she's going to use like this one time some
04:53:58
Brian Atlasdude multiple. Stop looking at it. >> No, it's not one time. It's multiple time. >> You can't conflate sexual attention. You cannot conflate se intense sexual
04:54:08
Brian Atlasattention from frankly a small proportion of men and then map that on to what that all men are going to put you in some category of being amongst like basically model tier level looks.
04:54:22
Andrew WilsonSuper model. >> He's right. Like I dismiss what I asked, right? I always try different things. Like I'm always trying different questions. I'm always trying different methods to try to like draw the truth
04:54:33
Andrew Wilsonout of people [laughter] and it's just how my mind works, right? So yeah, ignore the uh the double take. I thought it was clever, but you're right. It did it did just muddy the water. Well, and I
04:54:45
Brian Atlasguess just because a guy, by the way, if guys guy calls you beautiful or whatever, that doesn't mean like you're in the same way that like if your mom >> Yeah. They want to they want to [ __ ] right? [laughter] >> Like your mom's like, "Oh my god, you're
04:54:58
Andrew Wilsonso handsome. You're so beautiful." Like that doesn't mean >> you say my mom [ __ ] lies to me. >> Yeah. Yes. Yes. >> Just [ __ ] hurt my feelings, Brian.
04:55:10
Brian AtlasShe just told me I was handsome today. So, who's a good boy? You're a very handsome boy. Is he lying? >> Yes. >> [ __ ]
04:55:18
Brian Atlas>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, but I I again, um, can you think of a female celebrity who you think is a nine?
04:55:31
Savannah>> Sorry, I'm just trying to think. Um, >> how about a male celebrity who's a nine? >> Um, >> nine out of 10. >> Nine out of 10. >> Male celebrity. >> Male celebrity. I don't know. I would say maybe like Glenn Powell.
04:55:43
Brian Atlas>> Um, anybody else who that >> um Ryan Gosling. Um, >> I see Glenn Powell. Ryan Gosling. Another nine. >> Um, >> no. You know what? Ryan Gosling's perfect. So, just to be clear, your self
04:55:55
Brian Atlasassessment of your own physical attractiveness puts you on equiv. Obviously, he's a male. There's difference. But Glenn, wait, Nick, Google Glenn Powell. Image search it, please.
04:56:07
Brian AtlasYour league is Ryan Gosling and Glenn Powell. Um, >> you can just stare at me or you can No, I mean that's your league. >> I guess I've dated men that are as
04:56:18
Brian Atlasattractive as them. >> When you say dated, what what do you mean dated? >> Like a long-term relationship with a man that was attract as attractive as those men. >> You dated men who were just as attractive as Ryan Gosling. >> Yes, I have.
04:56:30
Brian Atlas>> And Glenn Pal. Nick, do you have a photo of Glenn Pal? >> So, and also like the body too, like the that physically fit like top 1% male. Yes, I have dated men like that. I don't
04:56:41
Brian Atlas>> I'm not trying to be rude. Like, I'm Look, I'm just I I'm aware I'm overweight right now. I'm chubby. My dear, you're overweight. >> I'm aware of that. >> How could you be a nine? >> Because I'm not always overweight. Just because I'm
04:56:54
Savannah>> You're currently overweight. You said I'm currently a nine. >> Okay. >> Well, no. >> I understand. I understand. >> But how are you a nine? I understand when I said after that was my own belief
04:57:06
Savannahin my what I how I see myself whenever we went to the point of if it was 100,000 men voting me I said a six. I'm sorry. I also would like to jump in. I want to say and I I again I don't know
04:57:18
Lolahow to word these in ways that don't seem personal. I would argue you're more attractive than Glenn Powell and less attractive than Ryan Ren or Ryan Gosling. Right. >> Well more attractive
04:57:30
Lola>> than Glenn Powell. Yes. genuinely 100% I pinky promise you. Now, what I'm saying here is I wouldn't rate I would I would rate both of them at other numbers than nines, right? And that's not relevant to
04:57:41
Lolathe conversation, but she rated them both at nine. All of our standards are different. We're all looking at the same pictures and seeing different things. Like I I personally don't think that Glenn Powell's body is the most
04:57:53
Andrew Wilsonattractive body. >> Give me the nine. >> I didn't say it was the most I'll just grant this for a second. Who's the nine for you? of men >> that we can pull up >> on it. I do think that Ryan Gosling does land at a nine most likely.
04:58:06
Andrew Wilson>> What about Glenn Powell? >> Glenn Powell, I would say probably around six. >> Okay. Now, >> now give us a new name that's not either of them that you would rate a nine. >> That I would rate a nine. >> Could be a singer, could be whoever.
04:58:18
Lola>> Uh Harry Styles, I guess. >> Harry Styles. >> I find him to be very attractive. >> Glenn Powell. >> I I This has been an argument with my friends for a long time. I think Glenn Powell is not very attractive. Well,
04:58:30
Shonalike I can say that he's like society very attractive, but he's like not attractive to me. And like the celebrity I would think of would probably not be attractive to other people. Like my ideal >> Yeah. >> Manny Montana.
04:58:42
Lola>> Is that >> Well, you can't see him right now, but like he's probably not everyone's 10. >> This is just like I do genuinely wholeheartedly believe she is out of Glenn Powell's league.
04:58:54
Brian Atlas>> Makes sense. >> She she would be settling for Glenn Powell. >> I don't Well, Looks wise, yes. >> So, what about body? Just strictly body.
04:59:06
Brian AtlasSo, okay, maybe you're doing a face assessment. So, again, I'm not I'm not trying to be insulted. Like, I'm [ __ ] overweight. I'm a fatty. I get it. She's overweight. At least in the photos that
04:59:18
Lolawe saw of Glenn Powell, the guy's like top 1% in terms of body. >> I personally don't find his body type very physically attractive, but that's just a me thing. He He's physically fit. >> Yeah. I think that being fit is a good
04:59:30
Lolathing. Yeah. But I I don't think that >> what constitutes male attractiveness as it relates to body. >> Well, can you pull up the pictures again and I can I can really reevaluate cuz I think too much muscle definition isn't really my thing personally.
04:59:43
Lola>> He's not a bodybuilder. >> Maybe I didn't take a very good look at it. >> I don't look up photos of him on my spare time. You pulled it up. There was a shirtless picture of him chiseled as [ __ ] What constitutes like a attractive male body to you?
04:59:58
Lola>> Um >> like more towards fat versus fit. >> I tend to lean toward leaner. Um I do I find muscle attractive. I think too much muscle is unattractive. I think that >> um >> these are all Glenn Pow features.
05:00:11
Brian Atlas>> Can you I I'm sorry. I would love for you to pull him back up. I got a tiny glimpse at the shirtless photo. >> You know what's actually interesting? when we make this discussion about body, you know, we're talking objective subjective or universal. Uh, you know,
05:00:24
Brian Atlasyou there's really compelling arguments as to the subjectivity of like facial attractiveness. That's that's much more nuanced and there's much more cultural differences. However, when it comes to
05:00:33
Brian Atlasassessments at least of male peak physical uh attractiveness as assessed by women, and again, look, I don't I
05:00:43
Brian Atlasactually think women prefer um the the like super bodybuilder, like maybe for fitness girls, they like the like fullon super gigantic bodybuilder types.
05:00:54
Brian Atlas>> Not all of them. >> Not all of them. [laughter] >> I think it's there's like very clear universality women will continually move towards