Andrew Wilson DEBATES Amouranth! CRASH OUT Kylie Update?! Woke College Feminists! | Dating Talk #268
Date: 2025-11-10
Duration: 7h 48m
Guests
Brian AtlasIdentified Speakers
SPEAKER_02Willow(guest)
SPEAKER_03Lola(guest)
SPEAKER_05Courtney(guest)
SPEAKER_06Shona(guest)
SPEAKER_07Andrew Wilson(guest)
SPEAKER_08Brian Atlas(host)
SPEAKER_10Melissa (Bodybuilder)(guest)
SPEAKER_11Jake(guest)
SPEAKER_12Nick Lee(guest)
SPEAKER_13Amouranth(guest)
SPEAKER_14Savannah(guest)
Key Moments
00:02:44
IntroAll panelists introduce themselves including Amouranth, Nick Lee, and Andrew Wilson
00:17:00
Key MomentAmouranth/Nick tell full home invasion story. Nick shot invader with 9mm while wife was held hostage.
00:28:00
QuoteAmouranth reveals gross OnlyFans earnings of ~$74-75 million
00:30:12
ControversyDiscussion of Amouranth's vagina yeast beer made by Polish company and bath water sales
01:39:00
Key MomentAndrew and Willow debate whether OnlyFans is prostitution. Andrew: only difference is a screen.
02:22:00
Key MomentAndrew presents force doctrine to Shona: men monopolize force, women can never collectively take rights from men.
03:00:00
Key MomentDeep moral objectivism debate. Andrew: without God, if men decide women are cattle, there's no justification against it.
03:26:00
ControversyCourtney argues women should call partners 'master.' Most panelists reject this.
06:10:00
ControversyCourtney reveals ex-husband's suicide-by-cop. She texted 'you are the cancer' day he died. Family barred her from funeral.
07:15:00
QuoteAmouranth: 'I hate sex work too. I just like the money from it a lot.'
07:18:00
AgreementShona explicitly agrees men are primary victims of war by metric of death
07:22:00
QuoteMelissa's coconut oil story: refused extra fats even during sex because of macros
“He went to put coconut oil on his dick and I was like that's way too many fats.”
Topics Discussed
00:02:44
Guest Introductions and Relationship Status
All panelists introduce themselves. Includes Amouranth/Nick, Andrew Wilson, Shona (18, UCSB), Lola, Willow, Melissa (IFBB pro), Savannah, Courtney.
00:17:00
Amouranth Home Invasion
3 armed men broke in seeking crypto. Nick shot one with 9mm. All 3 caught, face 5-999 years in Texas.
00:26:30
OnlyFans Earnings
Amouranth grossed ~$74-75M on OnlyFans. Peak $30M/year. Quarter-million-dollar single day. Vagina yeast beer by Polish company.
01:39:00
Prostitution Definition Debate
Andrew argues all sex work is prostitution. Willow distinguishes between prostitutes (with pimps) and sex workers (with choice).
02:21:00
Force Doctrine and Feminism
Andrew presents force doctrine: men monopolize force, so women always appeal to men for rights. Shona pushes back. Andrew counters with Middle East/Afghanistan examples.
03:00:00
Objective vs Subjective Morality
Deep philosophical debate. Andrew: without God, all moral claims reduce to preference. Lola argues for biological instincts.
03:26:00
Women Should Call Men Master
Courtney advocates women calling partners 'master.' Panel debates who gets tiebreaker in marriage disagreements.
04:12:00
Crash Out Kylie Update
Update on guest who claimed she was 'digitally assaulted' and threatened to sue Brian.
04:29:00
Self-Rating Looks
Most women rate 8-10. Andrew and Brian find it delusional. Discussion of objective vs subjective beauty.
06:00:00
Income Requirements
Shona: six figures. Amouranth pre-fame: $60K. Lola: doesn't matter. Melissa: $250K. Savannah: $50K.
06:10:00
Courtney's Ex-Husband Suicide
Ex died by suicide-by-cop. She texted 'you are the cancer' day he died. Told him 'you could be anyone' during oral sex. Family barred her from funeral.
06:35:00
Women Are Primary Victims of War
Andrew: death is worse than trauma, men die overwhelmingly more. Shona eventually concedes men are primary victims by death toll.
07:11:00
Body Count Reveal
Melissa ~30. Savannah ~13. Willow ~30. Lola 4. Shona 0. Andrew's husband says 'wild 20-25.'
Transcript
Page 4 of 8
03:01:12
Lolaall women as slaves, right? Mhm. >> Does that that doesn't make it moral in your mind, right? No. >> Cuz you don't think it's preference. Do you basically >> No. No. No. No. No. I don't think I don't think it's moral because in
03:01:24
Andrew WilsonChristian ethics, the enslavement of another human being is aborant. >> Yes. >> In Christian ethics, the subjugation of women is aborant. >> Yeah. >> That doesn't mean that there's not a
03:01:34
Andrew Wilsonhierarchal and patriarchal structure and that in in a marriage, a woman is supposed to submit to the head. I do believe that fully, >> but that doesn't mean that I believe for
03:01:45
Andrew Wilsona second that men have any any any conceptualization or Christian ethics that they can abuse or harm or do horrible things to women. That's [ __ ] that's way beyond the pale of Christian ethics.
03:01:57
Andrew Wilson>> Okay. My my the criticism of force doctrine is showing you guys your view. That just under pure preference, if it's the case that morals are just all preference, then if men decide and they
03:02:09
Andrew Wilsonprefer one day that you're just [ __ ] cattle there to breed our kids and there's nothing you can do about it and they all prefer that collectively, you may not like that. But you don't really have a justification to do anything about it because your entire
03:02:22
Lolajustification for why they shouldn't is just that you [ __ ] prefer that they don't. >> Human decency. >> Well, universal understanding about I never made the claim that morals are preference. I was not a >> then where do you then justify your morality?
03:02:33
Lola>> Um in my opinion it's about the best for society and I don't think there's any objectivism to that. I don't think that we can like objectively say this is what will lead to the best outcome for our preference. >> No it's not it's based on education. It's based on knowledge. It is in part I
03:02:48
Andrew Wilsonguess >> and it's your preference that we should value those things. >> Yeah. I guess the smallest percentage of >> not the smallest percentage. You literally agreed with me earlier that there's a concept of universal understanding. >> Everything everything that you are saying right now that we should value
03:03:01
Lolayour only justification for why we should value it is because you prefer it. >> Okay. So if in a hypothetical world if the Bible said that murder was okay, would you personally believe that murder is okay? >> No. Okay. >> Well, but here's why.
03:03:13
Andrew Wilson>> Sure. >> And no, keep going. >> Yeah. Here's why. So I have a different form of epistemology, right? Well, okay, let me I'll reframe the the
03:03:24
Andrew Wilsonwords. Um, where I draw knowledge. Okay, so I think the truth is written on your heart. These are the universals that we're agreeing to. I think that the
03:03:35
Andrew Wilsontruth of morality is written on people's hearts as the Bible says it is. Okay. The problem is is when people say, "No, it's not. It's actually grounded in preference." And you can't say it's grounded in the heart unless you believe
03:03:47
Andrew Wilsonin God. And so if that's the case, it's like, well then if it's just preference, then the only thing Muslims are doing wrong in their country by outlawing feminism, right, and doing all the subjugation, doing all the [ __ ] that you
03:03:59
Andrew Wilsondon't like, is just that you don't prefer it. If you can give me a reason why other than I just don't prefer that they do that and people agree with me, then I actually want to hear it. >> I think it is overall harmful for the society.
03:04:11
Andrew Wilson>> But that's just preference. Again, harm is a subjective metric based on your preference. So you don't think that harm can be quantified? >> No. How could it be? >> You don't you don't think that you could
03:04:23
Lolaever objectively say something is more harmful than itself is subjective. The idea of what is harm is subjective. >> Like there is gray area, but I do think that there are some pretty clear cases where I could say this is more harmful
03:04:35
Shonathan this thing. >> No, you wait. No. >> Other than grounding that in your preference, you actually can't. >> You can't. >> Not necessarily. >> You can't. In a country where like young girls are forced to like marry men who
03:04:47
Shonaare far older than them and are like forced to do things and that >> do you prefer that they don't do that? >> Well, I'd say there's some sort of objective harm there because they have like no agency. >> Wait, objective harm? I'm going to tell
03:04:59
Andrew Wilsonyou the difference between objective and subjective. Objective, okay, that means >> universally understood. >> No. >> Commonly understood? >> No. >> Or regarded as >> no. Objective means
03:05:11
Andrew Wilson>> not dependent on a mind. Subjective means dependent on a mind. >> How about I say universally regarded or deemed or understood. >> You can say what? Yeah, you can say that your preferences are universally regarded. >> But usually usually when a whole
03:05:24
Andrew Wilson[laughter] when a lot of people collectively >> Okay, you can continue actually. >> Well, no, I I agree that you can say that you have universally shared preferences with people. I agree with
03:05:34
Andrew Wilsonthat. But so what still preference? >> You're just all you're all you guys are doing just consistently asserting the same thing over and over. I'll use the word universal instead of objective. >> Universal preferences though. >> What else would they be?
03:05:47
Andrew Wilson>> I just don't think that these are preferences. Like I >> How could they be anything but preferences? >> What do you think that a society's goal is to to what? >> I think from your view >> No, from your view.
03:05:58
Andrew Wilson>> Well, my view is that I would want to institute a social goal where people are moving towards Christ Jesus. But from your view, society has no [ __ ] goal. What is the goal other than what you prefer
03:06:11
Andrew Wilson>> for its citizens to be happy? How >> that's a preference? Preference. >> Those are things you prefer. >> Those are [snorts] things that I prefer. >> Tell me an independent reason other than you and your preference why those are
03:06:23
Andrew Wilsongood things. >> You'd prefer Jesus Christ is in everyone's life. That's a preference. >> So my preferences again. So it's just what I prefer again. >> So if it's just my preferences versus your preferences. Well, what I'm saying
03:06:34
Lolais that you can't claim that like morality should be based off the Bible and not our practice. >> I'm not making the claim that it should. >> Well, you're saying that yours should be, but ours shouldn't be based off of our >> Let's just say for a second that I
03:06:45
Lolaagree. Me wanting to institute like biblical values is just a preference. Okay. So, what what have we established now? What do we establish now? >> You personally are basing your morals off of the Bible, right? Those are your
03:06:58
Lolapreferences. >> Okay. Great. If you are as valid as your and yours are >> what I'm saying >> and yours are and mine are preferences not my preferences but by your definition they not be your preferences >> by your definition we're both going off
03:07:11
Andrew Wilsonpreferences so why are mine less valid than yours even that >> not that's the beautiful thing they're not so if it's the case that a bunch of people share the same collective intuition that I do and my preference to
03:07:23
Andrew Wilson[ __ ] enslave all women then tell me why they're wrong >> what because it is >> hang on hang on I want you to listen to what I just said Yes. >> If you got a preference and I got a preference, she got a preference and her
03:07:35
Lolagot a preference. Is her preference better than yours? >> I think that preferences can be harmful for society. >> That's nice. That's not my Repeat my question. >> Are her preferences better than mine?
03:07:48
Lola>> Are they? >> I truly do believe some preferences are better than others. Yes. >> Is that your preference? >> You love this word. I don't think it actually means anything. Like it can be a preference. Okay. Sure. >> The things which you prefer. Sure. Honestly, let's meet in the middle
03:08:00
Andrew Wilsonground. It's a preference. Why does that make it any less valid? Preferences are important. >> Totally agree. >> And some are more valid than others. That is awesome. So then, so then it is the case then that if we all just have preferences, >> no, some are more valid than others.
03:08:13
Andrew Wilson>> Okay. What makes them that other than your preference? >> I do not think the betterment of society is a preference. >> Well, okay. What else is it? >> What? >> What are you mean concept? >> Okay, here's what I mean. Now, hang on.
03:08:26
Andrew WilsonHang on. Here's what I mean. >> Yes. What else could what you want for society being more valuable than what he wants be anything other than a preference. That's what I mean. >> Okay. If he wants the downfall for society and I want society to thrive.
03:08:38
Andrew Wilson>> Yeah. >> I personally do think >> your preference is my personal my I personally think sounds like a preference. >> This is sounding like from my point of view the Jedi are evil. >> Sounds a lot like what I prefer. >> What I'm saying to you is that you are
03:08:51
Lolamore than welcome to call it a preference. I honestly don't care. But I >> I know that my question is what else is it >> if it's not a preference? I do believe that genuinely [snorts] the goal of society it's not a
03:09:04
Lolapreference but like our goal is to it's like the way that human nature goal or just nature let's use any other animals any other species. They exist because they procreate because they have the goal to survive because they eat because
03:09:17
Lolathey hunt. We all have that goal instilled in us. Not because we grew up and decided this is who we are and this is what we prefer. It's because it is human nature. It's biological nature. You want your society to succeed. You
03:09:28
Andrew Wilsonwant to procreate. You want to be healthy. You want to eat. >> Okay. So, help me out here. >> So, it's part of human nature that we want to eat. >> Yes. >> We want to [ __ ] >> We want to collectivize. We want to do
03:09:42
Lolaall of those things, right? >> Yes. >> Is it also violence part of human nature? I think it is more taught than anything. I would like obviously to some degree, yes. But I I do think that violence
03:09:53
Andrew Wilson>> men collectivize in order to utilize violence to throw all women in little cages to do whatever they want, make them their little play things. Can you tell me outside of why you don't prefer that and a collective of people who
03:10:06
Lolaagree with you who don't prefer that that's actually wrong or >> we've agreed that have we agreed at this point that it is biological human nature to want to survive to want the betterment for your society. >> Yeah. But okay. Sure.
03:10:18
Andrew Wilson>> Okay. I think that is bad for society. >> So what that's so you me stating so me stating like let's say I'm hardwired to drink this beer. >> Sure. >> Right. I'm hardwired to because it's
03:10:30
Andrew Wilson[ __ ] delicious. Okay. And my Irish heritage demandeth it. Okay. So, I must drink the beer >> and then I don't I just don't I just
03:10:40
Andrew Wilsondecide, yeah, I don't want to do that. Okay. Um, did I do something wrong? >> No. >> Okay. So, I can go against my nature and I'm not doing anything. I can go against my nature and I'm not doing anything wrong.
03:10:52
Andrew Wilson>> Are you biologically engineered as a species? You just said if I was biologically engineered to drink the beer and chose not to, I'm not doing anything wrong. >> Okay. I do not think that the beer in it
03:11:04
Loladoesn't it has no positive enforcement on anything. It doesn't matter. It doesn't hold weight. >> Yeah. But positive enforcement is just preference. Again, >> if No, we have agreed. We've we No, no, we've agreed on your preferences.
03:11:15
Lola>> You and I agreed on a middle ground that biologically it is not preference. We are instilled with the desire for our societies to >> What if we what if we no longer prefer to do what we biologically desire?
03:11:28
Andrew Wilson>> Uh I think that's negative. I think that's a bad thing. Or because I don't think that preference is Yeah. Okay. Sure. >> Wait. So if [laughter] men biologically desire to subjugate women, it's not a bad thing to do. >> No, I'm Oh my god. I'm saying that
03:11:40
Lolabiologically Yeah. >> Which that isn't true, right? Do Do you think that's true? Do you think that biologically men are they their societies and collectives are >> improving? Make an evolutionary argument
03:11:52
Lolathat men are definitely biologically wired to subjugate women. >> I don't think so. I think that like a great example is the fact that the countries that we see thriving the most are the ones with closer to equal rights. >> Well, you see, when you see the word thrive, you know what you mean by that?
03:12:05
Andrew Wilson>> Yeah, bud. >> What do you think you mean by thrive? >> What do you I mean >> that people who have your shared preferences are doing good according to your preferences. >> Okay. I really I really do hate to come back to this point.
03:12:18
Lola>> I can't wait till you do. >> We've agreed. >> We've come to the conclusion together as a family >> that the goal of human nature is to survive. >> No, no, no, no. Wait, wait. Me saying
03:12:31
Andrew Wilsonthere's a nature that humanity has and you saying goal, those have to be separated. I'm I'm more than I'm more than happy to change my wording. I understand where you're coming from. >> Our goal is to change human nature. >> I can understand this. Okay. So, I'll change my wording there.
03:12:44
Lola>> Okay. >> Humanity has a biological instinct, right, to survive, to be healthy. >> And I would argue now at the level of I I guess that this can't be explained by
03:12:57
Lolalike nature and other animals and species because we have more complex brains, but >> and we follow what in them the things we prefer. I don't necessarily think that everything comes back to our preferences. >> Here's the thing.
03:13:09
Lola>> Is it your preference to be healthy? >> Uh well, what if it wasn't? >> Uh it wouldn't matter cuz I think that your preferences come before or come after uh our biological need to survive.
03:13:22
Andrew Wilson>> What? >> I think our biological need to survive comes before. >> If I want to unal alive myself, if I just like want if I'm like in horrible ghastly pain, >> yes, >> you agree with me. My instinct is to survive.
03:13:33
Andrew Wilson>> Yes. Should I go against that instinct? >> No. I think that your inst your biological instincts come first. >> So if I'm if I have like a terminal illness Yes. >> and they say, "Look, man, this is going to eat you from the inside out. You're going to be punished for the next 3
03:13:46
Andrew Wilsonyears and just tortured horribly by this illness." Or we can give you this shot of morphine, >> right? My biological instinct is that I want to survive, but I go ahead and go against that nature because I don't want to be in pain anymore.
03:13:58
Lola>> Well, it's also a biological instinct to avoid pain. and you know that you're not going to takes precedent except the one you prefer. >> I can't control what decision any person makes. I think that in that situation I'd probably kill myself too. >> Let's try this this way.
03:14:12
Andrew Wilson>> Sure. >> Okay. >> When people collect Do you believe that there's some objective standard for morality? >> I'm going to say yes. >> Okay.
03:14:22
Andrew Wilson>> I'm going to regret saying yes. That means that you believe that morality is not based on people's minds, but it exists absent people's minds. That's
03:14:32
Andrew Wilsonwhat objective means. Subjective would mean that um it's based only on people's minds. Do you think morality is based on people's minds and their brains and what
03:14:43
Lolathey think or do you think that it exists somewhere outside of that? >> Okay, we've now reached the point where you're defining subjective as anything that isn't a natural fact. Are we on the same page as that? I'm
03:14:55
Andrew Wilsongenuinely asking. >> No, I'm defining objective as requiring objective not requiring mind. Subjective, right, requires mind. >> Can I have an example of something that's objective and also not a natural fact? >> A tree.
03:15:07
Andrew Wilson>> That is a natural fact. >> Yeah, but that's not what I said. Think about what I'm saying to you. I'm thinking, >> does a tree existing require any minds? >> No. >> Then a tree objectively exists. >> It is a natural fact that it exists.
03:15:19
Andrew Wilson>> Hang on. So that's objective. It objectively exists. >> Yeah. Do morals exist like the tree exists? >> No. >> Then they're subjective. >> No. Well, okay. >> Then they're subjective. >> Do you understand the >> Yep.
03:15:32
Andrew Wilson>> Do you understand? >> Are they subjective then? Hang on. Hang on. Are they subjective then? >> I don't think so. I don't think that proves anything. >> Then can you tell me how they exist like the tree exists? >> I don't think it has to exist like a tree. That's a weird example. >> Only if you want subjective. Don't say
03:15:46
Lolaobjective. Then >> my claim is that there is a middle ground between objective and or between natural fact and subjective. You cannot give me a single thing that isn't a natural fact or subjective. Is that true? >> How do you know something's a natural
03:15:58
Andrew Wilsonfact >> based in science? >> And how do you interpret science? Is it with your mind? >> Sure. >> Okay. So then this thing that you've interpreted subjectively, you can determine is objectively real even if you don't exist, right?
03:16:11
Lola>> Yes. >> Okay. Well, then what THE [ __ ] ARE YOU talking about? >> I just Okay. I don't agree with your definition of objective and subjective. >> May I please >> then what the [ __ ] does what do you think subjective? >> You're just describing you are using objective synonymous with the words natural fact natural law something based
03:16:25
Andrew Wilsonin science >> not natural law and not natural fact when you're first of all [laughter] when I say objective I mean it exists in material reality without your mind. >> Okay. >> Okay. So a social construction does that
03:16:38
Andrew Wilsonrequire your mind? Hang on. Does a social construction require your mind? >> Is the government a social construction? Yes. >> Okay. Is the school a social construction? Yes. >> Is a tree of social construction? No. Then then that's the end of the [ __ ] debate. >> Okay. So
03:16:49
Andrew Wilson>> then I used the terms right, didn't I? >> Well, then I used the terms right, didn't I? Didn't I? >> We disagree on the definition. By your definition, you just agreed to your definition.
03:17:00
Brian Atlas>> By your definition, I am more than happy to agree that >> it's like punishment. What are we even talking about? >> Go ahead. It's like >> whatever we were talking about was subjective. >> Maybe can I help here? So Andrew, as it relates to preferences, preferences, preferences, preferences,
03:17:14
Andrew Wilson>> preferences, >> what in your view is the step beyond is it >> justification outside of preference, which means is there an objective standard that you appeal to that's not you? Right? And that's the grounding
03:17:26
Andrew Wilsonfoundation for which you're appealing to. So like earlier she said the law, right? Now it's a subjective standard, but she's appealing to something. I just think that anything that you appeal to for rights is just going to be things
03:17:38
Andrew Wilsonyou prefer. And and I think that collectively it's going to be things other people prefer and that those preferences can change and since those preferences can change. >> If it's the case that I have a preference to do bad thing, you have
03:17:51
Lolapreference to do good thing. Why am I wrong and you're right? >> We we've been over this. You've asked me this exact question worded differently. >> But you I just want to let you know that you never answered it.
03:18:02
Lola>> I did. We have been over my entire take that I think that we are biologically instilled for the betterment of society. That's what we're striving for. It is, you know, just how >> what if we don't want to go what if we
03:18:14
Andrew Wilsonhave shared preferences against things that are are we have bi biology for? Like for instance, birth control is bad. >> Birth control is bad. >> No. What? >> Yeah. So, I mean, you have biologically you're wired to drop eggs. Should we
03:18:26
Andrew Wilsonstop that? Should we stop that? >> Do you think that we >> Is that because you have a preference that we don't stop that? >> Would you like for me to respond or you just want to keep going? >> You're just going to ramble, but go ahead. >> I do want to actually hear it. I do want to ask >> what I would like to say is I don't
03:18:39
Lolathink that we as a society are currently in a position where we have to procreate for our survival. I think if we were then birth control probably would be bad because it would mean like the extinction of our society or whatever.
03:18:49
Andrew Wilson>> Oh my god, I love you. The birth rate. >> Can you tell me if we're reproducing at a rate to sustain society >> as I mean that's just not something I know. I would guess so.
03:19:02
Andrew Wilson>> What would you like for me to tell you? >> I would love it. We are way under replacement rate and humans are not replacing. So by your logic, we should get rid of birth control until we get at
03:19:12
Andrew Wilsonleast Yes, South Korea will be extinct. Their birth rate is so [ __ ] low. South Korea, >> hang on. The United States is dropping rapidly too. And so the thing is is like
03:19:24
Andrew Wilsonyes, actually we could lead to a massive reduction in human beings. So if that's the case, if you say we have trouble reproducing, no, that's why we don't need birth control. Then that would mean we should get rid of birth control, right?
03:19:36
Shona>> Wait, are aren't there countries that are very much reproducing? >> Not very many. >> No, China's >> they're going down. >> Not the ones with the values that you guys are debating. >> Isn't China trying to go down?
03:19:48
Amouranth>> Well, China killed like half its children. Yeah, I just I mean I do >> with the one child polic I could see this actually becoming a thing where men take away women's rights who are deciding to do the [ __ ] men
03:20:00
Andrew Wilsontrend and that will lead to less babies being born if they're like abandon men suck [ __ ] them be like if that's biologically what your what your imperative is then we should go against that right >> well no because I'm not agreeing with
03:20:13
Andrew Wilsonher but I'm saying by your logic you have to >> so maybe I can simplify this like the simplest way possible Um, >> like you're talking to foury old.
03:20:23
Andrew Wilson>> Does morality Does morality come from anything but you?
03:20:36
Andrew Wilson>> I mean, it's obvious. >> No, because morality is subjective. Therefore, it only exists within the mind. >> Then what else could it be? What else could if it's subjective? What else
03:20:47
Andrew Wilsoncould be moral except things that you prefer and other people share a preference for? >> I just this is going back in circles. Do you realize what I'm going to answer this with and how we're going to go back
03:21:00
Andrew Wilsonto the >> humans are engineered? >> We we have had this conversation. >> But even if they're engineered and we can go against our engineering with preference, that would still be moral under this subjective worldview. So like I don't I don't get it.
03:21:12
Andrew Wilson>> I actually don't get it at this point. It just seems like it seems like remember how we were talking about good faith like >> you should really abandon this position because it's completely [ __ ] incoherent. Ultimately, you're just talking about preferences, things you
03:21:25
Andrew Wilsonprefer. >> A preference is not something that is biologically engineered into you. >> Should we do everything that's biologically engineered in us? >> No, but my point is, >> well, then what are you talking about? [laughter] Who cares then? You You're
03:21:36
Andrew Wilsonsaying that you should follow preferences to not do things that we're biologically engineered to do? I think we're more complex than saying we're animals who need to follow our baseline instincts. >> We don't have to follow baseline
03:21:47
Andrew Wilsoninstincts. But how can if if morality only comes from you? How could what else could it be besides [ __ ] that you just like and prefer? What else could it even be? >> Things that are biologically
03:21:59
Amouranthinstilled in us >> that we can go against and that's fine. >> Yeah. The only biological thing is really what's good for you and your family. Okay, now we call that society because we have gotten to the point where we no longer have tribes. We have
03:22:12
Amouranthbig ass countries. So now we call it society because it's huge. But it's still what is good for me if you're in power and you decide that. That's the only thing that matters. What is good for that particular person who holds the power. >> I disagree with that. That is not my
03:22:26
Amouranthview at all. >> By matter it means that's what's going to happen. Not matter. What should what's the ideal? What's the utopia? It's what's reality. >> Yeah. I'm not arguing in idealistic terms. Yeah, the arguments against Andrew's position are like how the world
03:22:38
Nick Leeshould be, which is subject subjective, right? Um he's talking about reality, what is which is objective >> is kind of the >> So the the idea here is like it's it's
03:22:48
Andrew Wilsonpretty simple. Um, all of your morality, if you say it's subjectively based, the only real coherent answer you can have is that
03:22:58
Andrew Wilsonlike things you prefer and things that she prefers and she prefers collectively are moral because you all prefer them. The problem and and here's why that has to be the case. It has to be the case
03:23:10
Andrew Wilsonbecause otherwise you have to give me a standard that's unchanging that's objective that you can appeal to that would say that your whatever you
03:23:19
Andrew Wilsonprefer to do is wrong and you can't. So it has to be things that you just [ __ ] like. I mean what else I don't know what else your morals could be. >> You know exactly what I will answer this way. >> Yeah. But you saying that you're
03:23:32
Andrew Wilsonengineered to do things that if you prefer to go against is still moral is still preference again. It's always just for reduction to preference. I have to move. But I'll give you guys each another 30 seconds.
03:23:43
Lola>> My final thought is just if I don't prefer the betterment of society and I personally prefer for 30 people to die. I think that's negative. I I don't understand why you're disagreeing with that. >> This is fantastic.
03:23:55
Andrew WilsonI think that if X happens that that's negative because I think so. I see you don't prefer any of that. Got it. >> Final thoughts? >> Yeah. >> Good talk. I I have like a new question.
03:24:06
Brian AtlasIt's a little or no, it's like it's a little different. >> It's different than that. >> I prefer to go have you should reject it. I was just curious and I'll think [clears throat] about it. >> Oh, it was just basically like he explained force doctrine. I was curious
03:24:19
Shonaabout like the prescriptive side of that cuz like men have a monopoly on force. Should they be awarded more privileges? >> You should all be [ __ ] grateful men don't do it. >> That's the prescriptive side. >> Okay, >> that's a pres prescriptive side. I'm
03:24:32
Brian Atlasgrateful that men don't do that [ __ ] All right, ple uh Zeus, thank for the super chat. Please have everyone say woman and the plural form of that word to the Chicago girl. You are arguing it
03:24:44
Brian Atlasfor distinction without a difference. It's all prostitution, just different variations of the same thing, >> I guess. Okay.
03:24:56
Willow>> No, sorry. I feel like I was pretty clear on like why I have differences on variations and the distinctions of what those variations were. But again, like I have the respect like he has the right to have his opinion. I have a different
03:25:07
Willowumbrella term for it. He has a different umbrella term for it. But I did have distinction on the levels of what is different. So between each so >> sure uh Zeus here he is asking to have
03:25:18
Brian Atlasapparently some people will say women instead of woman. So he just wants to do a little test. >> Okay. Okay. >> Can you just say >> singular word woman plural women? >> You just said the same. [laughter] >> You just That was the exact same word
03:25:32
Brian Atlasyou just said. Do it again. Do it again. >> I would spell them differently. >> Wait, no, no, but do it again. Same. >> Okay. I am a woman. These are women. >> Okay. Changed it up a little bit. It sound >> All right. We can go around the table if you guys want. Just
03:25:44
SPEAKER_04>> woman. Women. >> Oh, women addiction. >> Woman. Women. Woman. Women. >> Woman. Women. Woman. Women. Woman, women, woman, women.
03:25:58
Brian Atlas>> Question every time. >> This should be a permanent segment. >> Uh Zeus, thank you for that for that. Appreciate it. Uh we're going to get into switch topics here. I'm going to try to bring it back a little bit to uh dating here. Courtney, you said that
03:26:09
Brian Atlaswomen should call the man they date master. Your words, not mine. Um that's you Courtney over there. Uh Kate had seemed like she had a reaction.
03:26:22
Brian Atlas>> I mean, if they want, right? if they they're into that, I guess. Uh so, Courtney, >> uh explain the master thing. >> I think it's important for >> it is >> women to
03:26:35
Courtneyrecognize in a relationship who's leading the relationship. And also above that, it's not it's not just about leading, it's
03:26:46
Courtneymore about peacekeeping. It's kind of choosing surrendering as a superpower. So, I see it as
03:26:56
Courtneya way because I I consider myself a non-traditional woman. So, it's not just about
03:27:04
Courtneyit's it's not like I need to be specifically in a mold of to who I am as a woman. I believe for me to be
03:27:16
Courtneyfulfilled, I must I must pursue my passions, my happiness, uh my liberties,
03:27:26
Courtneyyet also have the discernment to yield and let and and this is and I I believe a lot of
03:27:38
Courtneywomen would be a lot happier in their relationships and be and and be more feminine when they can refer to their
03:27:49
Courtneysignificant partner as master and even if Yeah. And and if as master I think >> yes [laughter] >> I call him master sometimes just sometimes
03:28:01
Courtney>> it's actually a very honor it's like a formal honorific that they used in the in the uh how do you say 16th 16th to the 18th century with >> 16th or wait the 16th to 18th >> I'm talking about the 16th to 18th
03:28:14
Courtney>> are you talking about something else >> when when you call when talking about little master when you're saying >> master >> master it's like a little little master young master like young master like
03:28:26
Courtneyperson like you would usually follow it with their names. It was very often as a used as a a formal honorific and I just see it as being resuscitated. Uh >> question are you what's your orientation? Are you straight? Are you
03:28:39
Brian Atlasby >> I'm heterosexual. >> Heterosexual. So, um, if, uh, if how if Felicity was a man, I
03:28:49
SPEAKER_04guess, how would you say master >> to her if she was your boyfriend or whatever? >> Um, it's like, "Hi, master." >> That sounds like a weird sex thing. [laughter]
03:29:04
Brian Atlas>> Oh, okay. Um, so I guess going around the table, opening it up to the panel. Uh, >> how would you all say master? No, [laughter] you have to go in a circle. >> So, uh, she she says >> it would definitely be a sex thing.
03:29:17
Brian Atlas[laughter] >> So, Courtney says women should call the man they date master. Uh, would would you call your boyfriend master if he wanted that? >> Hell no.
03:29:30
Amouranth>> Hell no. Kate, >> I actually don't have that big of a problem with it cuz he'll ask for something. It's like, "Can you give me a water?" I'm like, "Yes, master." And I just hand it to him. >> [laughter] >> It's not always sarcastic. Sometimes
03:29:41
Brian Atlasit's just playful. >> Do you want Kate to call you master? >> No opinion. Once in a while would be nice, I guess. [laughter] >> Okay. >> Every Fortnite. What? Lola, would you call your boyfriend, your new boyfriend,
03:29:55
Brian AtlasI guess, a master? >> I would not >> and he wouldn't want me to. >> Okay. What about you? Would you? >> Absolutely. And I have >> Oh, there you go. But [clears throat] not what if it's not even like Don't get it twisted. Maybe it's not even a It's not a sexual thing, right? This is like
03:30:09
Courtneyjust a >> this is a formal honorific. I think you can see you can see it not. But I think of it as the one of the highest degrees of respect you can pay. >> What what I was going to say is I would
03:30:21
Melissa (Bodybuilder)the only >> my next boyfriend, someone that I date is going to be someone that I respect enough that they are the dominant in the relationship. In which case, yes. But I
03:30:33
Melissa (Bodybuilder)wouldn't I wouldn't be with someone that I don't view with that kind of respect. So I I agree. >> But you don't but they don't own you, right? Like >> no, he doesn't own me. >> Master almost denotes that you're some sort of property. >> It's respect. >> Yeah. >> Not ownership.
03:30:46
Shona>> I don't really understand that line either. The line of ownership. >> Well, if someone's your master, it's like they're like you have to listen to everything they say. Like you're almost their property.
03:30:56
Andrew Wilson>> No, I don't know. Um chosen master. >> The Yeah. the the idea here is like um it's the same problem I have where people will say like with the the rwording the wife thing, right? So this
03:31:09
Andrew Wilsonis uh this is about >> well so the the idea is like if your wife wakes you up with sex or you wake your wife up with sex, is it R, right? Is it is that what it is? And like the
03:31:20
Andrew Wilsonkind of the feminist trope is like yeah, yes it is. And it's like that's really [ __ ] stupid. And the reason it's really stupid is because it's like if your wife goes and spends your money and
03:31:30
Andrew Wilsonyou didn't consent, is she stealing from you? And it's like, no, she's not. You know, there's the the idea I've always thought the idea in marriage of one
03:31:41
Shonaflesh, that's what it actually means, right? And so like you being obedient to your husband, isn't that like being obedient to you? Isn't that what the idea is there? No, I think there's like a concept of personal individual agency
03:31:54
Andrew Wilsonthat you can exercise in a relationship like your own person in a relationship. >> You're not getting rid of the agency if you're one flesh. If you're a union, right? You're sharing everything. You're sharing body. >> You're sharing body, you're sharing mind, you're sharing money, you're
03:32:05
Andrew Wilsonsharing everything. That's what the whole point of marriage is. And if that's not the point, then what the [ __ ] is the point? >> Wait, in that in that case, doesn't the man also have to take into account and listen to the woman a lot? >> Well,
03:32:18
Andrew Wilsontake into account. Yes. But the thing is >> to some degree like why is he more >> because because when there was a hostage
03:32:26
Andrew Wilsonsituation he shot a [ __ ] That's why and the thing is duck and like let me just like like let's just let's just lay it out right because when the thump in the night went he [ __ ] answered with the
03:32:39
Andrew Wilsongun. >> And the thing is is because of that the protection of your rights even inside of your home actually are deferred to the man. And so, yeah, you should probably listen to him and it's probably a good
03:32:52
Andrew Wilsonidea. Well, I don't know about master because that has some loading behind it, but like you call a judge your honor, >> you know, and like what did he [ __ ] do to deserve your honor that your husband didn't do to deserve your honor,
03:33:04
Amouranth>> right? >> It sure sounds like arguments, but at the end of the day, if you really don't want to listen to anything the person says, don't be with him. >> Yeah. Like if you Why do you call judge your honor? It's like because it's a very common
03:33:18
Andrew Wilsonrespect >> because it's an it's an honorific that you're supposed to respect my station. But if you call a judge your honor, but you can't call your husband your honor. >> You can people can do whatever they want. >> I know. But if you refuse if you refuse,
03:33:30
Shonaright, you're giving the judge more respect than your own husband. >> And it's like that to me just sounds counterintuitive. >> So if you call a judge your honor and you don't call your husband your master, you're >> I did Did I say master? >> Well, that's what we were talking
03:33:43
Amouranth>> I said your honor. Well, you may not like by default call him that, but what if he like asked if you could? Would you oblige if you respected him or would you like, "No, [ __ ] you. How dare you?" >> Or like, "How about this?" Like um in
03:33:55
Andrew Wilsonthe Bible, the the view is Lord, right? Like uh Sarah called Abraham Lord. And so the the question is like uh if you say your honor to a judge, your honor, you're giving him this really high
03:34:06
Andrew Wilsonhonorific. You're saying your station is above mine. That's why they sit at those high benches and that's why they have a gavvel. They're gonna [ __ ] judge your ass. >> I think that's like more of a traditional just like in the context of like the legal system. >> Yeah, but why is that tradition there?
03:34:20
Andrew Wilson[clears throat] It's to show the distinction in station. Your station is down [ __ ] there. I get to judge this. I get to rule on this and you're going to do what you're [ __ ] told. And so the thing is is like you're going to you
03:34:32
Andrew Wilsonyou will cast your fate to them and say that that it's okay that they affect society with their judgment, but not your own [ __ ] husband. And that to me has always been crazy. That's just crazy. So, I mean, what I would say is like just cuz I wouldn't be comfortable
03:34:45
Andrew Wilsoncalling the guy I'm with master, it doesn't mean I wouldn't show him respect in other way. >> You say master. >> Well, that's >> you keep you keep on I literally said to you, you don't have to use a loaded historic term. >> Okay.
03:34:55
Andrew Wilson>> You don't have to be like look uh you know cuz master infers slave. I get that. You can even abandon that. >> That's what I but like your honor lord, you know, things like that. >> The bow.
03:35:08
Andrew Wilson>> Yeah. Something like this. Yeah. any any of these things that don't have the same that you would call complete [ __ ] strangers. You'd call complete [ __ ] strangers that but not your husband. That makes me think like >> that you don't really respect the person
03:35:21
Shonamuch or that you don't >> respect someone just cuz you don't you like it's not really common to necessarily use that kind of title in a relationship. >> Yeah. But that just brings it back to the original question, right? Like why
03:35:32
Shonado you say it to a judge? Why do you say your honor? because it's it's like the common like term that's just used in that legal context. >> It's because in court that's just what's typically done >> because he's in judgment and you're
03:35:43
Andrew Wilsondeferring your fate to him. >> And so I would think that like if it's the case that you you know you stand in judgment of your own husband, right? That and you defer your fate to them. They're the one who has to go to the bump in the night. They're the one who
03:35:56
Andrew Wilsonhas to give you the [ __ ] seat on the lifeboat. They're the one who has to [ __ ] sacrifice for you. Then like an honorific doesn't seem that bad to me. That seems really reasonable. >> If you two are at an end, show respect in other ways.
03:36:07
Courtney>> And someone and one of you needs to make a decision as to the tiebreaker, who gets to make that decision. >> Oh, sounds like you've been watching me too much. >> What tiebreaker? Wait, what are you talking about? I didn't fully hear your question.
03:36:18
Brian Atlas>> In an argument or a disagreement, he wants one thing, she wants one thing. You've talked it through. They still want their respective things. Who's the tiebreaker?
03:36:30
ShonaThe man or the woman? They're equally >> valid in their >> How do you So, who do you defer to? >> How do we There's only two. >> You just like you just have conflict
03:36:43
Andrew Wilsonresolving abilities then or if you can't if you really can't resolve your conflict and it's that bad. >> Yeah. How do you resolve the conflict if neither one of you if neither one of you you're at an impass? It's an impass. You can't negotiate an impass or it wouldn't be an impass.
03:36:56
Andrew Wilson>> Like there's no compromise here. It's hard. Well, you feel very strongly on one end and he feels very strongly on the other end, right? Who gets deferred to here? >> Well, no one. There's no other third party here. >> Sounds like they just break up.
03:37:09
Amouranth>> What do you guys >> But if it's usually I defer to him because he's more stubborn than I am. But then later, if it's something that I really care about, we'll come to a compromise after he feels bad for being so stubborn. >> If it's a conflict that's not that deep, you can just forget [laughter] about it.
03:37:21
Andrew Wilson>> Some things have to happen. Do you see do you see how you consistently change the framing so as to not answer the question that I'm asking? >> I did answer forget about the agree to disagree agree to disagree. >> I'm going to ask you again and this time
03:37:34
Andrew WilsonI'm going to give you context for every word I'm saying. Impass cannot find a way around. >> Cannot impass cannot find a way around. >> You can usually find a way around. [laughter] >> Impass means you cannot find a way
03:37:47
Courtneyaround. Let's say you're >> Let me ask you this. Can I ask you one question? How would you feel if you didn't eat breakfast this morning? >> What if if I didn't eat breakfast this morning? I feel fine. I didn't eat breakfast this morning. >> What do you mean? >> Wait, I don't know what that has to do with
03:38:00
Brian Atlas>> Let's go with my example. So, let's say you're an empath and your boyfriend and you >> you good? >> Yep. >> Sorry, I think he's taking a little moment. Okay, [laughter] but >> I'm collecting myself. It's a face palm, but Mike P.
03:38:13
Courtney>> Yeah. No, I I get that. So, what if what if your boyfriend has a job to go to Antarctica for his new job? It's, you know, paying about above the same but maybe a little bit better than what he's >> and I want to stay here and >> and you want to stay here.
03:38:26
Courtney>> Oh, then we could break up. >> Honestly, it's just a breakup. >> Then we would [laughter] like Andrew, would you >> would you be like would you understand >> like if a girl doesn't want to move to Antarctica? I mean, >> I'm going to be totally I'm going to be
03:38:40
Andrew Wilsontotally honest. >> You break up then. believe 100% >> if there's an impass, you break up. >> That if I came home tonight, if I if I just caught a red eye, I walked into my house, I told my wife, "We're moving to Antarctica and I don't want you to ask any questions." I think that she would
03:38:54
Nick Leedo it. >> That's great. >> Would What about you guys? Would Would you move to Antarctica for Kate? >> He wants a beach house. I don't think >> for her. [laughter] >> For you, I would. I don't know if because you have a lot of things that you like that are like not in Antarctica. That's a tough one, right? like but like uh >> if the circumstances made sense or
03:39:08
Amouranthwhatever >> there'd be a compromise but I think she'd be there like 6 months >> and then Kate would you move to Antarctica for your husband? >> Um if it really depended on it like say I wasn't an influencer and it was just
03:39:21
Andrew Wilsonhim making the money then yeah >> what if he what if he came home now mind you this is a man who literally shot another man to make sure that you didn't you know expire. He came home one day.
03:39:33
Andrew WilsonHe didn't say [ __ ] He was just like, "Listen, I don't I need you to not ask any questions about this. I need you to just trust me. We're getting in the car. We're going to [ __ ] Antarctica tonight. Don't say a [ __ ] word. Just go. Would you do it?"
03:39:46
Andrew Wilson>> Oh, hell yeah. >> See, that's great. >> That's the person. But that's But that's the But that's the There's Well, there's nothing. What I'm saying is like that's the difference of an honorific. That's
03:39:56
Andrew Wilsonthe honorific. It's not just your honor. It's that that's the honorific. The fact that she would do it >> and it's like the fact that if I just say the word impass to you, you just pretend like you can't have one. You're
03:40:08
Courtneyjust like, no matter what, you can negotiate your way out of everything. >> I already made it clear. If there was an impass of that sort, I'd break up. >> She's a strong independent woman who don't need no man. >> That's the kind of woman that's been thrown in cages and dystopian.
03:40:21
Shona>> That's right. In the >> I want to get married. The cages. >> Do you know me? >> Wait, you had a Sorry. Your question for Courtney. What is it? >> No, no. She was just saying, "I'm a strong independent who doesn't need a man. I want to get married one day and she doesn't know me." And she's like
03:40:32
Courtneytrying to attach these labels. >> Yeah, I do. It's It's about compromise. That's my point. I was only using that as a facicious way of saying that a
03:40:41
Courtneyhyperbolic way of saying that when women don't understand the way of of like the art of just surrendering, which I think is a superpower. It's it just >> surrendering is not compromise.
03:40:55
Courtney>> Isn't compromise kind of meeting in the middle a little bit? person um compromise surrendering is just one uh surrendering specifically is one part of the the the contention and yielding that
03:41:07
Courtneyover to the opposite >> that's surrendering feel completely and utterly we make a compromise we come to a conclusion that we're both >> I think that's the most caring and
03:41:18
Courtneycompassionate thing that women can do is letting like compromise though is is surrendering to the decision forfeiting the decision Why should this is again another like
03:41:30
Amouranthyou're seeing it from your point of view, a man you love and respect and what's the best interest for you? Yeah, you're going to surrender to him because you know that he will do what is best for both of you. She's looking at it as like this guy just started dating in a relationship kind of thing. Am I going
03:41:42
Amouranthto surrender to him? I don't know if that's what he wants the best for me. Like I feel like that's what it's like cuz anyone who trusts the other person knows that they've always made good decisions. They've always looked out for the best of you. Yeah, you would surrender to them because they have a good path forward. It's like a kid and a
03:41:54
Amouranthparent who has a good parent. But don't you think you should not a kid woman knows what's good, >> right? But I'm saying like if a kid has a good parent and the the parent has never put them in a bad situation, you would it's understandable that the parent would want the kid to surrender and you might and the kid probably
03:42:07
Amouranthshould for the better of >> so why wouldn't a man as in this analogy >> it's just analogy of someone who loves and cares for you, right? >> It's not it's not that serious. It's
03:42:19
Andrew Wilson>> it's a family member who loves and cares for It's just it's just giving the the idea of like um somebody who's who is uh dependent or physically dependent or in some way dependent on the person. You shouldn't get married to a person if
03:42:32
Andrew Wilsonyou're going to refuse to depend on them. That's the whole point. >> Yeah. In a marriage, both people depend on each other. >> Yeah, of course. And so, so the thing is is like one of the biggest there was what remember that old country song? It was like uh I think that pride's the
03:42:45
Andrew Wilsonchief cause of the decline of the number of husbands and wives is I don't remember who who wrote this. Someone in chat will tell me, "Send it this [ __ ] super chat and tell me that it'll drive me crazy till I remember who who sang the song." But the point is is it's like, well, that's what it sounds like from you. It's just pride. Just pure
03:42:59
Andrew Wilsonpride. Like, >> it's not pride. >> I'm not going to if there's an impass, we're going to [ __ ] compromise cuz I have a pants suit on. And it's like, >> no, no, no. >> You know, it's not always necessary. It's like >> that's not that's not what my takes about. What I'm saying like for example
03:43:11
Shonain the situation your husband wants to move somewhere for a job. You want to stay somewhere for a job. That's not about saying I'm I'm going to have all this pride. It's about also thinking about what's good for yourself, your own personal life goals and just like not
03:43:24
Shonabasing your whole life around this other person. Why don't you trust your man? Yeah. Why don't Because in this situation you know that you want to stay in this place and you know that's good for you. That's the environment you want to be in >> more than you want to be with this
03:43:35
Lolaperson that you trust and respect. >> Sure. It can be. Can I also mention [laughter] >> on your parent on the kid and parent example? An adult would not listen to their parents on like if if my mom called me right now and said, "Hey, I think you should drop
03:43:49
Lolaout of school. I think that's what's best for you." I probably wouldn't listen to that because I'm an adult. [clears throat] Like that's the main difference between that example and my mom situation. >> No, but you did make or one of someone here made the claim.
03:44:00
Andrew Wilson>> You always have the choice when you're an adult to leave your parents, right? though I I think less and less people are and they probably should more. But you always have the choice as an adult to leave your parents, right? A marriage
03:44:13
Andrew Wilsonis supposed to be forever. >> Sure. >> So like if that's the case, why would you want to intertwine yourself with someone forever that you don't trust enough to when they say this is
03:44:24
Lolaimportant to me to yield to them? >> I am always going to trust myself above anyone else because I'm a very >> don't get married. >> I'm a very competent adult. No, I I think that there's a difference as well between leaning on someone and depending
03:44:35
Lolaon them. I think it's perfectly normal to lean on your partner and for them to help you and for you guys to it it should, you know, be helpful for both parties there. But I also I do believe
03:44:46
Lolathat no one person should ever be fully depending on someone else for their well-being, for their decision-m, for their path in life. I think you should trust yourself and I think you should be competent enough to make those decisions for yourself.
03:44:59
Andrew Wilson>> You know, this is this is pretty funny, right? It's like when you're talking about depending here in this context, if you why why get married if you don't want to be able to depend on the person
03:45:10
Andrew Wilsonfor those for those very things. Like for instance, I'm a [ __ ] slob. Like I just am, okay? I'm a slob. I'm a smoker, right? And I smoke in my littleing man
03:45:20
Andrew Wilsoncave, right? And I'll consistently look down and the genie has come through and cleaned everything in front of me while I sometimes even while I'm live streaming, right? this genie just comes through and just and it's all gone and
03:45:32
Andrew WilsonI'm like this is [ __ ] amazing. It's my wife, right? And every single comfort that I can imagine, right? She predicts on my behalf. You know what I've noticed
03:45:44
Andrew Wilsonover the years? >> Totally [ __ ] depend on her for it to 100% right depend on her for it to the point where I don't even really think about it much anymore. >> And it's like I wouldn't ever want to
03:45:55
Andrew Wilsonlose that dependency. Why would I ever want to lose that dependency? And the thing is is that if you can outsource, if you can outsource heavy decisions because you know that those decisions overall are going to be the best for you
03:46:06
Lolaand your family, what's wrong with depending on that? That seems that seems really wise. >> I think a primary difference between you and me is I would not like to marry someone for what they can offer me. I would like to marry someone that I love.
03:46:19
LolaI I think that a very healthy relationship could exist in >> then why not just be their friend? >> If you a relationship looks different than a friendship. You guys behave differently. >> What's the difference in your view except you're [ __ ] them.
03:46:31
Melissa (Bodybuilder)>> Sometimes you sp you spend more time with that person. You live with that person. >> You can spend tons of time with a friend and live with a friend. >> I actually have said so many times to my I have a few friends I love. I will not be in a relationship with someone unless
03:46:45
Courtneythey make me feel that much. >> I think she means romantic attraction. When you're when you're dating someone for out of love, what do you like to have? What's the number one thing that you need? everybody needs in a in a loving romantic relationship.
03:46:58
Courtney[clears throat] >> Number one, >> compromise. >> Ain't wrong. [laughter] Ain't wrong. No. No. None of that's correct.
03:47:05
Courtney>> It's It's not trust. It's not compromise. It's the It's peace >> entirely. I disagree with peace and harmony. >> I think it's benefit honestly. >> Oh,
03:47:18
Amouranth>> for you guys on the end, I'm curious to invert that like um >> Okay. I just want to say that that was a very prostitute like thing to say. I'm just saying not not beneficial like super transactional. I mean like like you said where you benefit from having a
03:47:30
Amouranthwife who is good at clean cuz you're not right. Historically it's not really it's not really >> no that's the only one but historically throughout you know the humanity that people have married they have tied they've aligned houses for benefit
03:47:42
Amouranthwhether it's land true nobility king like anything where and for women they might be like I want a father for my kids so they might get married to have that sense of stability rather than a baby daddy right. >> Yeah. Well, generally like the historic
03:47:54
Andrew Wilsonstandard, even though I don't like her much, Leela Rose points this out pretty pretty well. Um, even though I disagree with like 90% of her views, she did get this right. I went through and researched it out. She's pretty much right. >> It used to be when peasants got married,
03:48:08
Andrew Wilsonyou're talking about the nobility, alignment of houses, stuff like that. Totally fair. >> But when peasants got married, it was like they usually worked a small plot of land together, the husband and the wife. >> They really [snorts] actually worked the
03:48:21
Andrew Wilsonthe small plot together. If you were a smith, your hus or your wife usually would actually take care of small forge issues, take care of the kids, take care of this, take care of that. If you were a tradesman, something like this. If you were a farmer, same thing. She would
03:48:32
Andrew Wilsonexist in that capacity, >> right? As a helpmate. It was a helpmate situation. >> The the reason that it was so important that it was the man who was in charge is because of the security aspect, right? You have brigaders and bandits and you
03:48:46
Andrew Wilsonhave things that'll kill you. You have literal [ __ ] wolves at the door, right? You have three men who will break into your [ __ ] house and uh grab your wife and try to steal your Bitcoin. You got to shoot one. >> It that that aspect actually hasn't
03:48:58
Andrew Wilsonchanged. >> Like that aspect of keeping the wolves at bay, that has not changed. And so that [ __ ] gets the big piece of chicken >> and that [ __ ] guy gets the the higher
03:49:08
Andrew Wilsonend of the respect pole because when push comes to shove, you expect him, if you're being held hostage, to kill a [ __ ] and your husband did. And so it's like, yeah, he gets the big piece of chicken, right? That's the way it has to work.
03:49:21
Amouranth>> Yeah. And that's still benefit. All those biological things like being pack animals, you know, it's like at the end of the day, we are benefiting from being with one another, you know, and that's good. It's not transactional. It's not
03:49:33
Andrew Wilsonthe truth. And like that's the form of dependency. That's good. It's good dependency. Like how would you how would you have done better on your own when that happened? >> Oh, no. I'd be dead. >> You'd be dead. Like why shouldn't you
03:49:44
Loladepend on that? That's [ __ ] That's like That seems like basic common sense, you know? [laughter] Seems like basic common sense. >> I I think that if he were in her shoes, and this is intended with like zero disrespect at all, but I I do think that
03:49:56
Lolaif you had been in her exact shoes at the time, you also wouldn't have stood a chance against three armed men when you didn't have a firearm on you as she was, I'm guessing. >> Correct. >> Do you think that she would have handled the situation as good as him? No. >> Would you? >> No. >> No. And and by the way, on top of that,
03:50:10
Andrew Wilsonhow are you with guns in comparison to your husband? I'm great at shooting them once they're already like set up all the >> mag once he loads your magazines cuz your fingers hurt and he can't get you the second you get to the center of the magazine you go [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] right so
03:50:23
Andrew Wilsonhe loads it he [ __ ] he he takes it he [ __ ] it that's hard too >> right like then would have to already be full >> and then he has to put it down and then you pick it up and then you boy you're a [ __ ] marksman then aren't you >> I know right yeah >> it's like that's the common American
03:50:35
Andrew Wilsonstory and that's the common story between men and women that feminists like to [ __ ] lie about they like to lie about that [ __ ] Miss has never used a gun, but knows that women can. And [ __ ] you know, I don't know what your history is there, too. But when it comes
03:50:48
Andrew Wilsonto violence, she has to outsource it to men and and you always will have to. >> And that's why they get the big piece of [ __ ] chicken. They get the honorific and uh they get to make the biggest decisions. Does that mean in daily life
03:51:00
Andrew Wilsonthat you don't compromise? Of course not. Of course you compromise. There's all sorts of things they compromise on. Look, I want that bedroom. That would be a lot better for the girls. Okay. Well, let's but you know what? actually you're right about that. So, let's make sure
03:51:11
Andrew Wilsonthat that's for the girls. But on the other hand, if it comes down to, hey, this is a big decision. It means a lot to me. You need to follow my lead and you need to not ask any questions. That's what I get. And men, that's the way. >> Would you agree that in dating both
03:51:25
Shonawomen and men can have certain preferences? For example, a woman could have the preference to not want to call her man master, and that's fine. >> Yeah. But again, the reason I feel like you keep deferring back to master, even though I excuse that,
03:51:37
Andrew Wilson>> it's an example. Forget about that. and they can both have preferences. >> They can they can have preferences and maybe they align. Maybe they align, right? But really, would you get rid of a great man who was willing to do all of those great things because he wanted a
03:51:50
Andrew Wilsonhonorific? Like he wanted you to honor him in some way? >> I mean, when would I have figured this out like late into the relationship? Like I'm curious like if we were first starting to get to >> Well, if you get married to him, you should probably have some sort of you
03:52:03
Shonashould put him on some sort of platform like you would put the judge you call your honor. Yes. He'll make he'll he would know by now that I wouldn't be the kind of person who would do that if he if we had gone to the point to being >> So how is that not just incentive for men to not marry you? >> Well, I don't think I don't think most
03:52:15
Andrew Wilsonwomen who prefer to not want to use an honorific on their husband are going to have trouble getting married. >> Using an honorific, it's acting as though the honorific is there. >> I that goes way the same way you would behave in a [ __ ] courtroom when it
03:52:28
Andrew Wilsoncame down to it, the time it came down to it where the judge is going to say such and you're going to obey. That would be that would be you acting as though the honorific was real whether you said your honor or [ __ ] not. >> Like acting like super obedient and like demir and submissive
03:52:40
Andrew Wilson>> in in certain situations where you need to be demir and you need to be submissive. Yes. >> If I'm dating someone, it's going to be like I'm going to act authentically myself. >> I'm talking about dating. Talking about marriage. >> If I'm marrying someone, it's going to be because I know they like me for who
03:52:53
Nick LeeI'm who I am authentically. >> Wait, can we invert that real fast for you guys? Um, is there a possibility like you know you can pick exactly however you want this person to be that there's a man that you would you know in
03:53:06
Nick Leethat previous example like uh there's a big decision you feel one way he feels the other right like that you would defer to him is that man even like possible >> wait what do you mean >> like he's good for you in every way right
03:53:18
Nick Lee>> um that you would be willing in that moment when push comes to shove for the decision right like you feel one way he feels the other that you would defer to I mean it would depend on what I'm deferring to him too.
03:53:30
Andrew Wilson>> The the question is contradictory. There would never be a man who is perfect for me who would ask me to sacrifice. So the answer is no. >> So hang on. So hang on. No. He asked the perfect
03:53:41
Lolaquestion. The answer is no. >> The answer she did answer the second shear contradictory. >> No. No. I'm sorry. If I was asked to move to Antarctica, that is giving up my life goals. My life goals happen here.
03:53:53
Shona>> So the answer is no. >> Yeah. Because that man I told you the answer is no. That man is incapable of existing the degree of like the the conflict like in in certain situations like I would of course be willing to like seed something or like >> you can make this guy perfect like anything that you could ever possibly
03:54:07
Lolawant. >> I could not make him perfect if he's asking >> if he's asking her to do any [ __ ] thing. He can't make extreme life decisions. I think that compromise also means sometimes giving into what your partner >> I'll tell you what then don't then we're
03:54:20
Andrew Wilsontalking about huge life decisions. >> Get married and don't defer to him for a huge life decision. But also don't expect him to put his life on the line when three men break into your [ __ ] house and have you hostage. >> No, don't expect that either because I would do that for him as well. If I was the one holding the gun, I would start
03:54:34
Andrew Wilsonshooting. >> You don't have the capacity to do it. >> I'm capable of shooting a gun. >> I don't think that you're Look, I don't think that you're capable the same way he is. >> Do you believe that I am capable? >> I don't think you're capable of the same way he is. So, security will always be deferred to him.
03:54:47
Andrew Wilson>> That was not my question. That's not true. Let's say No. You know what? Actually, no. I don't think you're capable of it. Tell me how you load a gun. I don't know. I think you're not capable of it. Then you're not [ __ ] capable. >> I'm currently in this state right now as
03:54:58
Amouranthwe speak. No. If I learn physicallyapable, then you're not capable of it. Okay. >> I just think there's also a different >> I think that Yeah. I also think that I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off. Go on. >> Um I think there's a for a lot of
03:55:11
Amouranthpeople, there's always exceptions, but women a lot of times will process adrenaline and trauma quickly. They're more likely to run than they are to fight >> if they can if it's an option. >> [ __ ] smart. I don't know if >> or submit. Right. So you have you have
03:55:24
Lolafight flight but you also have >> that's what I did. I ran I ran to him. >> Yeah. I don't know on like a wide scale thing. I know for me personally I do fight. That is my immediate >> when three men break in and they have [ __ ] Glocks with 30 round mags who ain't fighting [ __ ] >> And if he were in that circumstance as
03:55:37
Lolawell. I'm sorry again. He was in that circumstance. He shot He shot the [ __ ] holding the gun. They didn't know where he was. They didn't have him hostage. If he was not the one holding the gun, if he was alone in >> the woman who's here to explain to you
03:55:48
Amouranththat if the situation was reversed, he'd be [ __ ] Yeah, cuz he's not likely to run. He's like likely to fight, but he can't in that moment. He probably just be dead for me. I'm thinking like where can I run to him and luckily his response is to fight. So that's when the
03:56:01
Brian Atlasmarriage works out. >> Wait, just on this really quick. So when this happened, you said you you ran in fear to him. >> Yeah. >> I think, you know, I I understand a little bit what you're saying, but I
03:56:13
Brian Atlasthink that there's a different component here too, a different angle that we can examine. I would argue just, you know, we're talking about dating that
03:56:22
Brian Atlasin the event that men won't judge women harshly when women display cowardice. So even in instances where you say, "Well, I would do the
03:56:35
Brian Atlassame thing." Maybe that's true. Maybe that's true. However, if you were to not do that and you were to run away in a cowardly fashion, your uh judgement your
03:56:48
Brian Atlasboyfriend or husband would not >> lose attraction for you, wouldn't there wouldn't be a negative judgment. However, and I don't know if it's the case for you, but I would argue the m vast majority of women, if men acted in
03:57:00
Brian Atlasthe same way that women did, where and I don't think you did anything wrong, by the way, but if men acted in the same way women did, they were cowards. They were scared. They ran. If a husband ran
03:57:11
Brian Atlasto his wife, oh my god, >> a home invasion. What do we the the regardless of the out? >> She wouldn't be very appreciative, would she, Brian? Regardless of the outcome of the home invasion, whether you know she
03:57:22
Brian Atlasthe woman dispatches the home invaders, women will intrinsically get the ick. If the man's a coward, the man doesn't rise to the occasion. I
03:57:33
Brian Atlasthink a lot of women are going to either consciously or subconsciously, they're going to lose attraction. They're going to There's going to be an assessment. >> But Brian, she's about to tell you she's the exception to that. I promise. Y
03:57:46
Andrew Wilson[ __ ] like clockwork. I'll just say that clockwork. >> I can predict everything you're going to say before you ever say it. >> What can I say? >> Mhm. >> For me, I would have preferred like like let's say we reverse the situation,
03:57:58
Nick Leeright? And uh I'm in the bedroom, they storm in, and then she's hiding somewhere. I'd actually whether I live or die, preferred for her to stay hidden. Like I mean, I think that's just uh >> a better, you know, cuz you have to have some like reasonably likelihood of
03:58:11
Andrew Wilsonsuccess. Otherwise, it's just a second person dead. >> Yeah. What's the point? That literally makes sense what he's saying, right? >> Can I actually say in the circumstance, >> hang on one second, let me just point this out, right? What he just gave you
03:58:23
Andrew Wilsonwas great male pragmatism, >> right? And it's why we're so good at this and why women are so [ __ ] terrible at it. >> I would prefer that you just went ahead and kill me why this person stayed
03:58:33
Andrew Wilsonhidden because I think her chances are so low of saving me from this, right? that uh it's it's [ __ ] stupid for her to pop her head out because if she does, she's just going to die and then there's going to be two of us dead. Great male pragmatism.
03:58:47
Andrew Wilson>> Yeah. So, what I would >> not what you see hang in the majority of these situations from women which why she ran >> to him. I have one question for you. One question for you on on my statement. >> Yes.
03:58:58
Brian Atlas>> I I uh there's this scene from I'm gonna get some heat for this, but as just for R&D, like she said, research and development. I've been watching Sex in the City and there was [laughter] there
03:59:10
Brian Atlaswas a just for research research purposes. There's actually a lot of interesting there's a >> just don't just stop. >> Yeah, don't worry. >> No, no, no. Just just >> No, but there's a scene. There's a scene
03:59:21
Brian Atlasand one of the one of the female leads, one of the female maybe not the lead, one of the female main characters or whatever. >> What's her name, Brian? >> Yeah. >> What's her name, Brian? >> It was Charlotte. >> Oh, you knew with the name. [laughter]
03:59:34
Brian Atlas>> Yeah. Okay. >> Uh-huh. So, uh, Charlotte was dating this guy who, uh, he, I mean, they were sleeping together, so he wasn't gay, but he was acting in a sort of gay,
03:59:46
Brian Atlasaffeminite way, and, you know, she was really attract. He was a good-looking guy. She was attracted to him. But there was one mo and she was on the fence about his kind of effeminite nature. But
03:59:57
Brian Atlasthere was one breaking moment where like a a little mouse or rat scured across the kitchen and he jumped on a chair like this. Oh my god. And she just she
04:00:09
Brian Atlasknew right then and there it was over. Like she couldn't date a guy like that. So my question to you is you say you don't you wouldn't care. You say you wouldn't care. You're telling me if you
04:00:20
Brian Atlaswere dating a guy and he saw a spider and he jumped and hid and oh my god and screamed. >> It would be funny. Like the same way it would be funny if I jumped on a chair and laughed.
04:00:33
Andrew Wilson>> You wouldn't think that? >> I would think. Okay. What I wanted to say? >> No, I would not. >> Your ovaries would shrivel up and [ __ ] die. Your ovaries would jump out of your mouth and commit suicide in front of you. That's what would happen. Our ovaries would beat each other to
04:00:46
Andrew Wilsondeath with their bare [ __ ] >> You are more than welcome to not believe me on this. >> I don't I don't Not only do I not believe you, but like come on. Come on. Like cuz even even your peers would be like what a [ __ ] Your your friend
04:00:59
Lolagroup would say what a [ __ ] >> That doesn't matter to me though. Of course. Right. >> I I don't know. I can't speak for on other women's behalf, but I know many women. >> Your last boyfriend, was he bigger and stronger than you? >> I'm sorry. >> Well, your last boyfriend, was he bigger? >> Yes.
04:01:11
Lola>> How much bigger? Uh, how do I like measure that? Uh, >> your height versus his. >> Uh, I'm my the last person I dated was 6'2. The person I'm currently >> Oh, he was 62. Was he somewhat muscular?
04:01:26
Andrew Wilson>> Sure. >> Oh, that's interesting. You were attracted to this 6'2 muscular man. Why? What? I I remember how before when you said we're hardwired for what we're hardwired for, right?
04:01:37
Andrew Wilson>> This 6'2 muscular man. Why do you think your you were attracted to him? Was it because he was big and strong and buff looking? No, it wasn't. >> No, >> it just happened to be that he was 6'2 and muscular. >> Genuinely is.