Andrew Wilson DEBATES Amouranth! CRASH OUT Kylie Update?! Woke College Feminists! | Dating Talk #268
Date: 2025-11-10
Duration: 7h 48m
Guests
Brian AtlasIdentified Speakers
SPEAKER_02Willow(guest)
SPEAKER_03Lola(guest)
SPEAKER_05Courtney(guest)
SPEAKER_06Shona(guest)
SPEAKER_07Andrew Wilson(guest)
SPEAKER_08Brian Atlas(host)
SPEAKER_10Melissa (Bodybuilder)(guest)
SPEAKER_11Jake(guest)
SPEAKER_12Nick Lee(guest)
SPEAKER_13Amouranth(guest)
SPEAKER_14Savannah(guest)
Key Moments
00:02:44
IntroAll panelists introduce themselves including Amouranth, Nick Lee, and Andrew Wilson
00:17:00
Key MomentAmouranth/Nick tell full home invasion story. Nick shot invader with 9mm while wife was held hostage.
00:28:00
QuoteAmouranth reveals gross OnlyFans earnings of ~$74-75 million
00:30:12
ControversyDiscussion of Amouranth's vagina yeast beer made by Polish company and bath water sales
01:39:00
Key MomentAndrew and Willow debate whether OnlyFans is prostitution. Andrew: only difference is a screen.
02:22:00
Key MomentAndrew presents force doctrine to Shona: men monopolize force, women can never collectively take rights from men.
03:00:00
Key MomentDeep moral objectivism debate. Andrew: without God, if men decide women are cattle, there's no justification against it.
03:26:00
ControversyCourtney argues women should call partners 'master.' Most panelists reject this.
06:10:00
ControversyCourtney reveals ex-husband's suicide-by-cop. She texted 'you are the cancer' day he died. Family barred her from funeral.
07:15:00
QuoteAmouranth: 'I hate sex work too. I just like the money from it a lot.'
07:18:00
AgreementShona explicitly agrees men are primary victims of war by metric of death
07:22:00
QuoteMelissa's coconut oil story: refused extra fats even during sex because of macros
“He went to put coconut oil on his dick and I was like that's way too many fats.”
Topics Discussed
00:02:44
Guest Introductions and Relationship Status
All panelists introduce themselves. Includes Amouranth/Nick, Andrew Wilson, Shona (18, UCSB), Lola, Willow, Melissa (IFBB pro), Savannah, Courtney.
00:17:00
Amouranth Home Invasion
3 armed men broke in seeking crypto. Nick shot one with 9mm. All 3 caught, face 5-999 years in Texas.
00:26:30
OnlyFans Earnings
Amouranth grossed ~$74-75M on OnlyFans. Peak $30M/year. Quarter-million-dollar single day. Vagina yeast beer by Polish company.
01:39:00
Prostitution Definition Debate
Andrew argues all sex work is prostitution. Willow distinguishes between prostitutes (with pimps) and sex workers (with choice).
02:21:00
Force Doctrine and Feminism
Andrew presents force doctrine: men monopolize force, so women always appeal to men for rights. Shona pushes back. Andrew counters with Middle East/Afghanistan examples.
03:00:00
Objective vs Subjective Morality
Deep philosophical debate. Andrew: without God, all moral claims reduce to preference. Lola argues for biological instincts.
03:26:00
Women Should Call Men Master
Courtney advocates women calling partners 'master.' Panel debates who gets tiebreaker in marriage disagreements.
04:12:00
Crash Out Kylie Update
Update on guest who claimed she was 'digitally assaulted' and threatened to sue Brian.
04:29:00
Self-Rating Looks
Most women rate 8-10. Andrew and Brian find it delusional. Discussion of objective vs subjective beauty.
06:00:00
Income Requirements
Shona: six figures. Amouranth pre-fame: $60K. Lola: doesn't matter. Melissa: $250K. Savannah: $50K.
06:10:00
Courtney's Ex-Husband Suicide
Ex died by suicide-by-cop. She texted 'you are the cancer' day he died. Told him 'you could be anyone' during oral sex. Family barred her from funeral.
06:35:00
Women Are Primary Victims of War
Andrew: death is worse than trauma, men die overwhelmingly more. Shona eventually concedes men are primary victims by death toll.
07:11:00
Body Count Reveal
Melissa ~30. Savannah ~13. Willow ~30. Lola 4. Shona 0. Andrew's husband says 'wild 20-25.'
Transcript
Page 1 of 8
00:00:10
Brian AtlasWelcome to the Whatever Dating Talk podcast where we try to make sense of the modern dating hellscape. I'm your host, Brian Atlas. A few quick announcements before the show begins. We
00:00:20
Brian Atlasrarely do sponsorships, so this podcast is viewer supported. So that we can continue to not be beholden to Mega Corp advertisers, please consider sending a tip through streamlabs.com whatever
00:00:32
Brian Atlasinstead of super chatting. YouTube takes a brutal 30% cut. That's streamlabs.com/ whatever. The messages on streamlabs get priority to read a message during a break is $200 and up. Oh, you know what?
00:00:45
Brian AtlasHide. Oh, no, no, that is correct. I Yeah, yeah, you can show it. You can show it. I thought I had it. We We had to bump it today just because we have so much to get through. Uh, so $200 to read. TTS is going to be 200 or sorry,
00:00:56
Brian AtlasTTS is going to be 300. My mistake. What's that? Oh, yeah. TTS is going to be $300 and up. That's via Streamlabs only. There's a moderation delay with a TTS, but we try to get those in within a
00:01:08
Brian Atlasminute or two. Also, via Streamlabs, you can mute a microphone, pop a ball of champagne, or if you're a real baller, real G, we have some crypto only options, Ethereum, even some Bitcoin options. We have balls of crystal if you
00:01:19
Brian Atlaswant to pop a pricey champagne bottle. Also, if you want to just tip, have 100% of your contribution go towards us. No platform fees, no cut. You can via Venmo, Cash App, that's whatever pod on both. We have channel memberships. To
00:01:31
Brian Atlasbecome a member, channel memberships. To become a member, click the join button. Tier one is just $5 a month. And there's a lot of you that we will pull up later, but we're
00:01:43
Brian Atlasalso live on Twitch right now. Pull up another tab. Go to Twitch. Pull uh just skip to Twitch. Twitch.tv/w whatever. Drop us a follow on the prime sub if you have one. If you have an Amazon Prime, you can link it to your Twitch. Quick, for easy way to support
00:01:56
Brian Atlasthe show every single month. We got merch, shop.whatever.com. Follow us on Instagram, whatever. Twitter.com whatever. You can follow me,
00:02:06
Brian Atlasthe host, Instagram, Brian Atlasx. Twitter, Brian Atlas. Check out my cat, I guess. There it is. Check out my cat. Check out my nonprofit movement, Big Labia Matter, or BLM for short. All
00:02:18
Brian Atlaslabia can't matter until big labia matter. Also, I ratioed Kanye West. Uh, so that's cool. If you can't catch the full shows, we have Eclipse channel. We also have a Discord, discord.gg whatever. We post our stream schedule, behind the scenes, hate mail, research,
00:02:31
Brian Atlasstudies, a bunch of other stuff. If you're my Caucasian, you will join the Discord. Also, we have a little Crash Out Kylie update uh that we'll get into later on in the stream. And uh that's yeah, that's it. So,
00:02:44
Brian Atlaswithout further ado, we're going to have the guests introduce themselves. So, please tell us your name, age, occupation, where you're from, and education. Go ahead. >> Okay. Hi, my name is Shona. I'm 18 years
00:02:56
Shonaold. I'm a college student here at UC Santa Barbara, and I'm in my freshman year, and I'm from the Bay Area. >> All right. What are you studying? >> I'm studying psychological and brain sciences. >> Gotcha. All right. Welcome. What about you?
00:03:08
Amouranth>> Hi, I'm Caitlyn, also known as Amaranth. I am 31 and I am a live streamer and content creator from Houston. >> All right. Uh any college or anything like that? University? >> Uh I went to school locally in Houston
00:03:21
Brian Atlasfor costume design. >> For costume design. >> Yeah. Before influencing. >> Gotcha. You get a degree, bachelor's. Do you >> No, that could even finish. Yeah. It was like a trade program. >> Do you do you uh still do costume related design?
00:03:34
Brian Atlas>> Occasionally. Yeah. [clears throat] For cosplay conventions and stuff. >> Rock and roll. And you're from Texas. Like grew up there. Houston. Got Houston. All right. >> Rock and roll. What about you?
00:03:44
Nick Lee>> My name is Nick Lee. I'm 36. I'm 36 and uh I guess I do social media work kind of behind the scenes mostly uh supporting kind of what Kate does and then uh I have some well I have a
00:03:56
Brian Atlasbachelor's degree uh in engineering finance. >> Gotcha. And uh where are you from? >> Uh uh Texas Houston. Yeah. >> Okay. Gotcha. All right. And uh you said you had you had a degree in what was it
00:04:09
Brian Atlasagain? >> It was uh finance and then uh engineering. >> What kind of uh engineering? Uh chemical >> chemical engineering. >> It's all chemical down there. >> Okay. Gotcha. Um before you got into
00:04:19
Nick Leesome of the content stuff, uh >> what uh >> like were you working in >> I was briefly on Wall Street uh Meil Lynch during the financial crisis of
00:04:31
Nick Lee2009 right before the summer right before they went under. So that was a very interesting experience. Then I did uh engineering after that and it was mostly like uh designing ethylene cracking plants.
00:04:42
Lola>> Okay. Gotcha. What about you? >> I'm Lola. I'm 20. I'm from Orange County and I'm currently a student, a barista, and a nanny. >> Gotcha. What are you uh studying? >> Writing in literature.
00:04:54
Willow>> All right. And you're a sophomore, junior, senior. Junior. Okay. >> All right. What about you? >> I'm Willow. I'm 27 and I'm from Chicago. I work for a car dealership, but I'm also mainly the founder and owner of a
00:05:07
Willowcommunity for women called Womanhood Unfiltered. So, that's my main focus. >> All right. And any education, college? >> Um, I went to the Art Institute, but I ended up dropping out and I'm just kind of focused on like what I do with my
00:05:20
Melissa (Bodybuilder)business. I graduated high school. That's about it. >> Okay. All right. What about you? >> My name is Melissa. I am 28 years old. Um, I am originally from Baltimore. I've
00:05:32
Melissa (Bodybuilder)lived in Tampa for the past three years and I just moved to Denver. I got there on Tuesday, but I've also lived in many other states in the past few years. Um,
00:05:41
Melissa (Bodybuilder)I am an IFBB professional bodybuilder and I am an online coach for both uh athletes and lifestyle clients. Um, and
00:05:52
Melissa (Bodybuilder)for school, I did not finish college. I probably had like one semester left. I'm debating finishing in some kind of science. >> Okay. And how long have you been doing
00:06:03
Melissa (Bodybuilder)the bodybuilding for? >> I have been a pro since 2020. Um, my first show ever was when I was 17 in 2014. >> Can we get a most muscular
00:06:15
Brian Atlas>> and then the double buy? >> Maybe a tricep. Should we Can we get a little tricep? >> Oh, I got to like stand >> here. Let me Maybe this angle. >> Try the Can you do the other arm? Yeah, >> I like this one better. >> Oh, it looks hot. >> Nice.
00:06:28
Savannah>> We don't have good shadows here. >> Shoot. [laughter] Done. Cool. Cool. Thank you for that. Uh, what about you? >> My name is Savannah. I'm 31. Um, I'm originally from Nashville, but I live in
00:06:38
SavannahSan Diego now. Um, I am an office administrator for San Diego Jewelry Buyers down in San Diego. Um, and then I also run a Flowar community in San Diego and promote for local shows and yeah.
00:06:52
Courtney>> Any education? >> Oh, yeah. I went to school um, in Middle Tennessee for uh, health and nutrition. >> You got a bachelor's degree? >> I got my bachelor's degree. >> Gotcha. All right. What about you?
00:07:03
Courtney>> Hello, my name is Courtney. I'm 31. I'm from Salt Lake City, Utah. I'm an exotic cat trainer, uh, specializing in savannah cats. They're a hybrid species
00:07:15
Courtneybetween an African servil and a domestic house cat if you did not know that. Um, and I have a bachelor's degree in computer science. >> Those are the really big cats, right? [laughter and gasps]
00:07:27
Courtney>> They're not like tiger size, but I would say imagine a cheetah, but like half the size. They're a size of a medium dog. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Imagine a cheetah but half the size. [laughter] That's pretty big. I think
00:07:39
Courtneyhalf. >> And uh did you say your education? Sorry, I might have missed that. >> Yes. So, I've completed a bachelor's degree in computer science. Yeah. >> Sorry. >> Okay. All right. What about you?
00:07:52
Andrew Wilson>> Uh yeah, my name is Andrew Wilson. I'm the host of The Crucible. I'm a political pundit, a commentator. I do debates all around the world and uh conversations all around the world as well. Um mostly via video. I don't like
00:08:04
Andrew Wilsonactually like physically going around the world, [laughter] but I do like having conversations. So, uh, that's who I am. Thank you all for having me. I'm happy to have this conversation today. >> All right, welcome everybody. We're going to go around the table once more. What's your current relationship status?
00:08:17
Brian AtlasIf you're single, how long have you been single? And what's the longest relationship you've ever been in? >> Um, I'm currently single. I've never been in a relationship before, but I mean like I'm talking to someone right
00:08:30
Shonanow. >> Okay. How long have you been talking to them? Um, well, we like hanging out before, but we've just been like talking more and spending more time together in the last few weeks, but it's been like since school started.
00:08:41
Brian Atlas>> Okay. Uh, so like just what 3 4 weeks or something? >> Something like that. Yeah. >> Okay. And when you say you're just talking, what does that entail? >> Just spending time together and hanging out, getting to know each other,
00:08:53
Brian Atlas>> like going on dates or going to his dorm room or >> Yeah, hanging out. >> Okay. What about you? Uh, I've been married to this guy for about 10 years. >> All right. Married. How long were you
00:09:05
Brian Atlasguys uh dating for? >> I think it was about a year and a half. >> Gotcha. So about together almost two uh 12 years. >> Yeah. >> Total. >> Does that sound right? >> 14. >> Approaching. >> Getting there. Getting there.
00:09:18
Brian Atlas>> And so you guys got married after you said a year and a half or so. >> Okay. Gotcha. And uh any other relationships before that for for you? Um, just like dating for like six months
00:09:30
Brian Atlasat a time, but nothing serious. >> Gotcha. Okay. All right. Uh, well, I imagine your answer is a bit the same. So, married to her for >> Yeah. >> 10 years. [laughter] >> Yeah, that that part of it the same. Um,
00:09:42
Brian AtlasI had kind of a wild 20 to 25, but uh, >> so some other uh any other long-term relationships? >> No. No. Like I think past about six months dating around. Gotcha. Okay.
00:09:52
Brian Atlas>> All right. And uh, how did you guys meet? Tinder back when it was a real >> Oh, app before pay to win. >> In 2014, Pay to Win. I like that. Uh before uh >> Yeah, that was that was like the I think
00:10:05
Brian Atlasit came out in 2012ish. So, that's pretty early on. >> And uh Okay, so you you dated for a year and a half. You met on Tinder and uh
00:10:16
Brian Atlashave you guys ever has it was it ever on again, off again at any points or pretty much just smooth? Well, I don't know. >> We've had straight through, you We've had some crazy fights, but it's always been
00:10:27
Brian Atlas>> Yeah. Never an actual break. >> No breaks. Gotcha. Okay. All right. Uh I'm sure I'll I'll have some more questions uh as the show progresses, but what about you? >> I'm in a relationship and my longest relationship was for two and a half
00:10:41
Brian Atlasyears. >> Gotcha. Uh how long's your current relationship been? >> Uh month and a half. >> So you were on the show previously. Were you on in a relationship last time you were on the show? >> No. You asked me this question and I
00:10:54
Brian Atlastold you I was in a situationship. >> Ah, it's so upgraded. >> Yeah. >> To a full relationship. >> Yeah. >> Boy, boyfriend. >> Yep. >> Okay. A month and a half. Who popped the question? >> Um, him
00:11:07
Brian Atlas>> was a mutual >> kind of as a result of seeing the podcast, which is a little funny. >> Wow. You owe me something. I don't know. [laughter] So, >> no, I was going to say I >> So, you were on the show. You were in
00:11:18
Lolathe situationship. your uh your your guy you were seeing what he watched the show I guess and >> uh I honestly don't even think so. Um our other friends had watched the show and I guess it had just come up in
00:11:30
Lolaconversation >> and I mentioned to him like some joke that was like hey sorry I kind of >> it might have been obviously it was about you cuz our friends were watching it. >> Um and
00:11:42
Lolauh yeah I told him that I said I was in a situationship and then you know snowballed to a conversation. Yeah. Okay, got it. >> So, thanks. >> Yeah, you're welcome. Wow, we're really,
00:11:54
Brian Atlasyou know, people come on the Whatever podcast and they find love and [laughter] you know, we we've actually set up a lot of people have have, you know, met through this. Anyways, um what about
00:12:06
Willowyou? >> I'm single. Uh I've been single like outside of serious relationships for about 3 years. I've kind of dated around the past few months, but I did it for choice and then dating is just like really bad in your 20s. It's like no
00:12:19
Willowfun. So, I stay single. My longest relationship was four years. >> Four years. Is that the one that ended about 3 years ago? >> No, that one was like a year and a half ago. That relationship ended when I was
00:12:30
Willowabout 21 or 22ish. >> Gotcha. Who ended uh the long your longest relationship? >> Um it was kind of like a mutual thing between the both of us, but he more so was the last person to block finally.
00:12:43
WillowBut it was really really toxic like blocking, sending each other emails. He was an alcoholic, so he spent a lot of time like when he was sober, he'd never talk to me and then he'd get like blackout drunk and call me every single day for like four years of my life. So,
00:12:55
Brian Atlasit was a lot of fun. >> Good times. >> Oh, that's exciting. >> Good times. Love that. Um >> Yeah. >> And your most recent relationship, which you said was about 3 years ago, which you said was about a year.
00:13:06
Willow>> Yeah, that was like a little over a year, but um after a year of hating, um that was very >> Actually, finish that sentence. After a year of hating. >> After a year of hating each other, we actually became best friends. >> Oh, >> he knows. We're watching. I'm not going
00:13:19
Willowto say names, but he knows I'm on here today. He's watching. So, hi. We love you. >> It's a good foundation for any friendship or prior hate. >> Yeah. Block each other, fake cats. >> What about you?
00:13:31
Melissa (Bodybuilder)>> Um, I am single and my last relationship, which was also my longest relationship, ended in 2021. We worked together for almost two years. >> All right. Who broke up with who?
00:13:43
Brian Atlas>> I broke up with him. >> Gotcha. All right. Any particular reason? >> We didn't like each other. >> Didn't like each other. But how long were you dating? >> Two years almost. >> Didn't like each other, but
00:13:55
Melissa (Bodybuilder)>> dating for was like a comfort thing. >> It was the kind of thing like I was I was doing my stuff, you know, like
00:14:01
Melissa (Bodybuilder)working, training, whatever. Um, I think as I or he was he kept claiming to be, you know, in love with me, but would always [snorts] tell me all these things
00:14:13
Melissa (Bodybuilder)he didn't like about me. So, I thought about it. I was like, "You think you love me, but you don't like me, and I think we should find people that we like." And, um, I Yeah, I wanted relief
00:14:25
Savannahfrom that. So, >> Okay. All right. What about you? >> Um, I am single at the moment. Uh, my longest relationship I would say usually
00:14:35
Savannahthey tap out after a year and a half or two years. Um, my last relationship ended two years ago. >> And you say they tap out after Sorry, how long? A year. >> A year and a half to two years. Yeah.
00:14:48
Savannah>> When you say they tap out, >> like all of my relationships, like the longer ones I've had, they've usually lasted like a year and a half or two years. Mhm. But your framing of tap out >> like that's like >> is it such an onslaught?
00:14:59
Savannah>> Like this just where things like fizzle out like romantically and emotionally where it's like this isn't working in that way. Um I've been able to maintain friendships with a couple of my exes and
00:15:11
Brian Atlaslike I have relationships with them still to this day in a friendship. But >> Gotcha. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So you've been single for two years. >> Yeah. >> All right. Uh, and you said your longest
00:15:22
Courtneywould typically a year and a half, two years. Gotcha. What about you? >> Um, let's see. Current I'm in I'm currently in a relationship and we've
00:15:32
Courtneybeen together for eight months. Um, my longest would have to be my marriage, my failed marriage. Uh, that was five years. Um, and yeah, we have a daughter.
00:15:45
Brian AtlasSo, >> all right. So, you're divorced, correct? Correct. >> Uh, all right. And you were together uh six years, you said. >> Married. Okay. >> We were to married two and a half,
00:15:58
Brian Atlasdating for a total of together for a total of five. >> Gotcha. Uh, and sorry, remind me your age again. >> 31. >> 31. Okay. Gotcha. And uh, how long you been single for? It was
00:16:09
Brian Atlas>> Well, I I currently belong to someone together for eight months. >> Eight months. Gotcha. Okay. Sorry. I got my wires crossed there. All right. Who initiated the divorce? >> That would be me.
00:16:21
Brian Atlas>> Okay. Does he pay you alimony? >> No, he um he passed away. >> Oh, sorry to hear that. Um Okay. And you
00:16:33
Brian Atlassaid you had one kid, right? >> Yeah, we have one daughter. >> And that's with your ex? >> Yeah, my >> passed. >> Yes, my Yes, him. >> Okay, gotcha. All right. What about you?
00:16:45
Brian Atlas>> Yeah, I'm married. All right, Andrew is married. How long have you been married, Andrew? Long time. >> I don't [ __ ] know. >> He forgot. It's been so long, he forgot. >> Been married forever. >> All right, rock and roll. Uh, okay,
00:16:57
Brian Atlascool. So, that's everybody's uh relationship status. I did want to get into some of the the notes here that I had. Just one moment while I get those
00:17:08
Brian Atlaspulled up. Uh, Kate, did you submit any notes or maybe you texted them? >> Um, >> you said you wanted to talk about like stalkers or something. >> Yeah. Yeah. You ask me if there's any props.
00:17:20
Amouranth>> What's the story there? >> Oh gosh. What year was it? Do you remember? Is that the last house? >> 2018 17 >> somewhere around there. We had a a guy from Estonia try to come and I it seems
00:17:32
Amouranthlike marry me because he had a ring that he said he got from his grandmother and he sold everything he had in Estonia, including his house and his cat to come find me in Texas and was live streaming
00:17:44
Amouranththe whole thing. even had like a donation goal before he got to America of flight to Houston and I reported it to Twitch but he just kept making new accounts and so in some ways it was
00:17:55
Amouranthuseful to keep tabs on him but it was very unhinged behavior uh psychotic so that was a that was a time he did come into the house and try to get into the house and he came back multiple times even after being arrested.
00:18:07
Nick Lee>> Yikes. Okay. Yeah. So, you have a restraining order or >> I don't even know if they they >> we had a it expires after like 2 years or something like that, but then like uh there's a crazy conversation that that
00:18:18
Nick Leekind of uh starts where it's like uh he had a from Estonia, he had actually a working visa for a company in Miami >> and he just didn't go. And then even after um you know they kind of made him skip town cuz the police in Houston,
00:18:31
Nick Leethey don't really know. They're just kind of like okay, you can't come here anymore. And then he went back to Miami and apparently picked up the job anyways. So, it's kind of like I don't know what the hiring standards are or I don't know what his skill set was, but they kind of just waited an extra couple of months and he just showed up.
00:18:46
Brian Atlas>> Yeah. >> And you guys have uh >> you had a sorry >> a breakin >> recently too or something I saw online. I didn't really see the whole the details, but I mean you guys um >> you're in Texas, right? >> Mhm.
00:18:59
Brian Atlas>> You guys have firearms or >> I do. I have a lot of guns. Yeah. >> A lot of guns. Okay. Maybe you and Andrew can >> Andrew also [laughter] has a lot of firearms. Um, have you ever had to like shoot anybody? >> He did.
00:19:12
Nick Lee>> Well, well, not prior to that moment. Like, uh, in fact, I always thought like, you know, like one guy might break in one day, but like, you know, three is a hypothetical. Like, I don't I don't do anything with the cartel, so it should
00:19:22
Nick Leebe fine. So, like, uh, I had a shotgun and a handgun, but like because she was essentially being held hostage, shotgun is kind of out of the question. So, >> Gotcha. Andrew, it sounded like you had a question or
00:19:34
Nick Lee>> did you kill him? How many of them? No, no. It's three guys uh all wearing masks, hoodies. Uh they seem like they've done they had done something before, but never a hostage cuz they they mismanaged that pretty thankfully
00:19:46
Nick Leepretty badly. Um they all had guns and one guy had this ridiculous like super extended mag thing. Uh I remember I kept bumping into tables and stuff with it. Um, but uh they kind of uh I mean they
00:19:58
Nick Leethere's a the complication there is that like she was in front of them and they were marching her you know kind of to my location but they didn't know I was there. >> Uh and so for me it was like it's not like in the movies you can't you can't
00:20:10
Nick Leetake that hero shot in like in that situation. And so my whole gamble was that if I yelled get down would she actually drop or would she create enough distance that there would actually be a
00:20:21
Nick Leeshot? Right. Um, and it was the I joke about it now, but it's like uh you know, if I yelled get down, like half the time she'd probably uh say why. Uh, in that case, she dropped to the floor super
00:20:33
Nick Leelow. And then unfortunately, all three of them lined up. And so I only had shot of one. And so I fired um and then like uh what they don't tell you is that like in that situation uh you know your
00:20:44
Nick Leeadrenaline peaks. Yeah. And so there's something called like auditory uh exclusion >> and so like >> time slows down or speeds up. >> Yeah. Yeah. For me no sound. It's like in uh in Saving Private Ryan. It's like
00:20:55
Nick Leethe white noise thing cuz I remember like firing and then I was like oh no did I like forget my safety? Did it jam? And I had to look at it and watch the bullet finish you know ejecting closer. You're good. the bullet finished
00:21:07
Nick Leeejecting and then you know I fired twice more. It was visual confirmation because I couldn't hear it even though I'm the one closest to the gun. >> Um and so >> very common for hunters too. >> They'll fire the shot and never hear it
00:21:17
Nick Leego when your adrenaline's pumping. >> Um hit him in the lower gut. He bled a lot um >> enough that uh his his uh buddies had to drop him off at the hospital directly after and then that was kind of the first lead and then you know from there
00:21:30
Nick Leeit's association and all that. >> How many times she hit him? >> Uh just one time. Um, I was definitely I mean I was very nervous, but also it's just like she's still in. >> Oh, yeah. It's [ __ ] I mean that's terrifying.
00:21:42
Nick Lee>> Terrifying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And so, uh, no, didn't didn't uh one hit uh can't tell if the other one one of them like franged a bit. Um, and then one just a miss. Um,
00:21:53
Andrew Wilson>> what were you using? >> It was a 9mm uh staccato CFS. >> And these guys had it like extended mag Glocks. >> Glocks? [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we kept the bullet holes in the
00:22:06
Nick Leewall as a reminder. >> Just curious >> were the black guys, >> you know. Uh like one or two of them were like hard to It's like the some kind of mix or something and then one Yeah. And then the driver was like
00:22:18
AmouranthHispanic. >> They had some Hispanic names when they they arrested all >> they're all like half something. Yeah. >> Why did they target you? >> Um so >> did they know like did they know you guys were? Is that what it was? Um I
00:22:30
Amouranthdon't know if they knew who I was like on a fan level, but uh they definitely knew that I was worth a lot according to like the crypto numbers that articles have posted online. >> Yeah, it's on two levels. You could say
00:22:40
Nick Leethe tweet um that we had made ourselves. Um, but really it was like her uh kind of getting called out by uh Hassan's people and then they kind of went crazy and then the news articles wrote about
00:22:54
Nick Leethat situation but they like to hyperlink the previous article >> and so that's how that thing went kind of hyper viral 100 million impressions and then these guys you know was just like had no idea who she was just was like oh crypto like you know that's a
00:23:07
Nick Leething we can Yeah. >> So what was their big plan? They were going to ransom her for crypto. the craziest part, right? It's not Bitcoin is not actually untraceable. It's Yeah, I know. [laughter] And so it makes no sense, but they were tunnel visioning uh so hard because like uh so she it was
00:23:20
Nick Leelike >> Sorry, sorry, sorry. You're good. Uh it was like taken, right? Like because she calls me and then puts on speaker phone. I was like, "Is that you?" And I hear like a loud banging on the door. And I was like, "That's not even the that's not even the front door. That's the
00:23:32
Nick Leemaster bedroom door, right?" >> Um and then like moments later, you know, they busted the door down. You hear it crash and they're in there yelling. And for us, uh, historically, uh, anytime there's a bump in the night or like an intrusion, it's actually like
00:23:44
Nick Leea swatting, right? And so my first instinct is never to grab the gun cuz that's kind of the way you get shot. >> Exactly. Yeah. And but luckily they they immediately were like, you know, where is it? Where is it? She's like, what are you talking about? Like the crypto. And
00:23:57
AmouranthI was like, that's not the cops. And and so that's when it kind of like >> Were they looking for a physical drive? >> Yeah. They they took my phone and uh we were browsing through the app. >> Think that's a vault or crazy thing. how it works. It's
00:24:09
Nick Lee>> still on speaker phone. They're tunnel visioning so hard on finding the crypto app that I'm on speaker. The guy is looking through the phone and I was like, he's going to say something to me, right? And I kind of like waited and like he just never noticed the call was
00:24:21
Nick Leerunning and it kept running. That was like my intel like uh you know like tell of like kind of what they were doing, you know, roughly where they were or whatever. Yeah, >> that is that is wild. So did they So the
00:24:33
Nick Leecops got them all? >> They all in jail now? Uh yeah, they're about to be tried. Uh the driver flipped really hard uh because you know he's like kind of co-arty to that and they're facing uh you know just to start two counts of 5 to 999 in Texas.
00:24:47
Nick Lee>> Um >> what is that? >> Five [clears throat] five to 999 years. >> Oh 5 to 99 armed. They don't mess around in Texas when it comes to >> aggravated uh campaign is what they used. Yeah.
00:24:57
Nick Lee>> Well, good man. I mean I know you're not supposed to say this and stuff but like I'm glad you got the bastard. >> Oh [laughter] yeah. Yeah, I'm usually the guy who make like lets the spider outside, but like in that moment I would have probably like done something.
00:25:10
Brian Atlas>> Oh, you have every right to defend yourself. They break in your home, dude. >> Uh, and so anybody here do Only Fans or is it just you, Kate? >> I have one.
00:25:21
Melissa (Bodybuilder)>> Oh, you have you have no Okay. >> Yes. Not super like active on it. >> Um, >> is it like bodybuilding stuff or is it like adult content stuff? >> It's essentially an extension of stuff
00:25:32
Melissa (Bodybuilder)that I would post on Instagram. I don't do um no nudity or anything. >> No nudes. Okay. >> Don't like all the bodybuilders do that basically?
00:25:41
Melissa (Bodybuilder)>> Yeah. I mean, my my whole thing with it, it's like if I have it like I like and I feel like I should be more active on it and like just like utilize it. But I
00:25:52
Melissa (Bodybuilder)I'm not really I respect people who like do it like for real and are like making bank on it. I don't like like it doesn't align with
00:26:03
Melissa (Bodybuilder)me, but like I have it and I feel like I did it because there is this crossover between that stuff and the fitness bodybuilding world and I'm like well you know it makes sense. I might like if people are looking at me I might as well make some money off of it but it doesn't
00:26:17
Brian Atlasfeel good to me. >> Mhm. >> So I'm kind of in this like limbo with it. >> Yeah. >> But yeah. >> So going back to you though Kate. So you you got into OAF pretty early on right?
00:26:28
Brian Atlasum probably like 2019ish20. And were you doing like Patreon before that? Are there before like OAF kind of emerged as as this really giant platform. Was there It was mostly people
00:26:41
Brian Atlasdoing Patreon before that, right? Or was there something kind of like OAF before OAF or >> I think it was mainly Patreon. You're right. >> Mainly Patreon. And um And when did you
00:26:50
Brian Atlasstart like you do like adult type content? Is it is it se semi- nude nude? What what do you post on there? >> Oh, it's kind of a mixture. >> Okay. >> Yeah, it just really depends on like I
00:27:02
Brian Atlasguess what people are requesting. >> Okay, gotcha. And um I I've seen some things online. You mentioned also with this home invasion story that there were I guess some like news stories about
00:27:14
Brian Atlaslike whoa, she has this much crypto and she makes this much money. Um in terms of the home invasion, it sounded like they were after some like crypto hard drives or something. Um
00:27:26
Brian Atlasdid you have you disclosed how much crypto you have like publicly or >> um we disclosed like how much we had at one point but not like the current amount. >> What what did you disclose previously or if you I'm sure if you want to disclose
00:27:39
Nick Leecurrent that's fine too. >> It it would have been equivalent to like in the tens of millions but like tens of millions. >> It was more so of a like hey uh you know this was crazy but like not that we actualized it at the current price which is way higher. >> Gotcha. >> If that makes sense. And it was an older
00:27:53
Brian Atlastweet too. Like that's what I'm saying. Like the article dug it up because it was from like a year and 8 months ago or something like that. Yeah. >> Gotcha. And then you've uh Kate, you've also I think on some other podcast mentioned terms of your income from Only
00:28:05
Brian AtlasFans, it's quite substantial from what I've seen. These are older interviews maybe from a year or two ago. Um is there an updated number in terms of total total earnings?
00:28:17
Amouranth>> I haven't done the math to update it in a long time. Um don't remember do you remember >> gross is a 8digit seven handle. So in the 70 plus million
00:28:30
Brian Atlasrange gross >> 70 >> like 74 75. >> Okay. Gotcha. >> And uh in a year in a like a one-year
00:28:38
Amouranthperiod what's the most that you've made? >> I know it was really high during the co years especially. It was running at over like 2 million a month. >> Okay. Just a hair shy of 30 in 22.
00:28:51
Nick Lee>> Wow. Um, and >> how much does Uncle Sam get? >> Yeah. [laughter] >> You know, >> it's always too much, but uh we do a lot of or I do a lot of real estate things
00:29:03
Nick Leethat do uh 100% bonus depreciation >> from the 16 uh you know, taxes and jobs act. And then also more recently, they just rolled a new one. So, um as little tax leakage as possible legally.
00:29:16
Brian Atlas>> Well, I mean, good, right? That's what you're supposed to do, right? >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm I'm sure that that's a pretty high tax bracket. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But I mean, that's just from the the
00:29:27
Brian Atlasonly fans. You're also Twitch streamer. You also, I imagine, do other things, too. I guess really quick, just finishing off on the O of thing. Uh most in one day. >> I I don't think I've ever calculated
00:29:40
Nick Leethat before. Um >> you think it's six figures? >> I think I think so. I I don't know if there's a higher one, but there was a quarter million dollar day. >> Quarter quarter mil.
00:29:50
Brian Atlas>> Yeah. >> Okay. And let's see. Um, you also I'm trying to remember. It wasn't like Bel Deline. She did did this bath water thing. Didn't you do something similar?
00:30:03
Amouranth>> Uh, yeah. My hot tub water when the hot tub meadow was really strong on Twitch. >> Yeah. >> And the beer. >> Oh, yeah. >> You had the beer. What's the >> um There was a company that contacted me
00:30:12
Amouranthfrom Poland. I think it's like Yoni is the company and they make beer u that's matches the profile of women's vagina yeast. >> They'll like you send in a sample and
00:30:24
Amouranththey'll replicate the agriculture amount >> the agriculture the the >> that's the word they use that might have been a translation >> something about like uh they just [laughter] recreate that profile. >> They like grew it is what they were
00:30:38
Andrew Wilsondescribing. >> No, I know what you're talking about though. >> They made beer out of your vagina yeast. >> Mhm. They're like, "We're gonna grow it. >> We're gonna get take the sample and grow more based on the
00:30:49
Willow>> profile of the vagina yeast." >> You can make beer from that. >> There's a chick who makes sourdough with her yeast, too. She like went viral on TikTok for that. >> Making bread literally.
00:30:59
SPEAKER_09>> Yeah. I don't know what that is. >> What the name of degeneracy is going on here. >> Wow. Damn. That's uh Okay. Um >> you learn something new every day. [laughter]
00:31:10
SPEAKER_09>> Yeah. Um Okay. So, >> can you bring me some nonvagina yeast beer, bro? I appreciate it. >> You Why didn't you You should have really brought this home as a gift, by the way. I feel a bit insulted. Just Just saying. >> You should have. Do we Do we have any bottles left?
00:31:24
Brian Atlas>> There's like a >> What? Not handful of bottles left. You're a drinker. >> I'm not sure what to do with them. [laughter] >> I'm just saying it's just not really considerate of you guys to have forgotten forgotten. Now, I'm just messing.
00:31:37
Nick Lee>> We need to do another run. There's limited >> Oh, there's a limited supply. Yeah, it's probably sitting on some shelves somewhere. >> We have like three or four bottles and that's it. And we don't know what to do with the last few. Yeah. Have you sold it? >> Sorry. >> Oh, yeah. They they uh
00:31:49
Nick Lee>> the company did. We We haven't sold any. >> Yeah. They sold out real fast and a lot of it was like, as you'd imagine, like YouTubers, Tik Tockers who wanted to do like a viral video, >> right? Um that only helps the marketing for that. >> Drinking vagina beer.
00:32:03
Nick Lee>> All the things. I mean, they did uh smoking >> bongs with the the hot tub water. So, it's like, you know, it's kind of like a [laughter] We live in a society.
00:32:13
Amouranth>> Uh, how much did you make from the bath water, hot tub water >> stuff? Six figures. >> Yeah, it was over six figures. I don't know that there was a final amount. >> All of that stuff is just marketing that
00:32:26
Nick Leeactually pays you to market and it was like approaching six figures. I think it was right under. Yeah. >> Gotcha. Okay. >> Are you going to sell your bath water? >> You know what? I've contemplated I have contemplated it. Um, it's in the works.
00:32:38
Brian AtlasIt's maybe we can link up to some sort of I'll do a hot tub stream with you guys. That's still the best. >> We can we can be bottling it on stream. >> Oh, there you go. There you go. Um let's see. I had another question on this. Uh
00:32:51
Brian Atlassomething Oh, um I >> vagina yeast. Really? Like that's >> Yeah, apparently it tastes really good, too. I've been told >> they still do it, but just not for specific girls right now. >> I I didn't try because it just I don't know.
00:33:04
Andrew Wilson>> I tried. Yeah, that might be a little more of it. You drank your own vagina yeast beer. Yeah, I could see where that could be a little >> uh and then uh hold on. [snorts] >> Uh oh, I also recall you you I don't
00:33:17
Amouranthknow if you still do this like ASMR stuff. >> Yeah. >> Do you still you still do that or not? Really? >> I dabble. >> Dabble. >> Yeah, YouTube like deleted all my channels, including the ASMR channel. So, what's that? >> They wouldn't tell me.
00:33:29
Andrew Wilson>> Oh, it's just rand. You wake up one day. >> Yeah, literally. Mhm. >> Okay. Damn. Crazy. Um, no strikes. Now, you're one of the larger streamers on Twitch, too, right? >> Yeah. So, um, I don't know who is Hassan
00:33:42
Amouranthbigger than you are as far as live viewership now. >> Yeah. I did a kick contract for two years and kind of like >> I mean, when you were at your peak on Twitch before you did a kick. >> Yeah. I would say Hassan's always been like more concurrent viewers. >> Yeah.
00:33:55
Brian Atlas>> Gotcha. >> Yeah. You you moved to kick for a little bit. >> Yeah, I did. >> Gotcha. What why the change back? Uh, the contract ended. >> End of the contract. Okay, gotcha. All
00:34:08
Andrew Wilsonright. Um, >> Twitch sucks. [laughter] >> Twitch sucks. Has terrible toos and is awful, right? >> Lots of things happen there. [clears throat] >> They're pretty bad. It's Well, I mean,
00:34:21
Brian Atlasit's bad for politics. I mean, I don't know about like booby girls or whatever, but it's bad for it's bad for politics. >> Oh, it's bad for E girls, too. >> They're cracking on both. >> Yeah. uh you in your notes you had said you
00:34:32
Brian Atlaswanted to speak on the morality of Only Fans. What were your thoughts there? >> Oh, I was just wanting everyone's opinions. I think it's fun uh to go around with like Okay. Thoughts?
00:34:41
Brian Atlas>> Sure. Um well, I I assume since you do Only Fans, you're probably in favor of sex work, I imagine. No issues there. >> Yeah. I mean, I don't have a problem with it.
00:34:52
Shona>> What about you? I don't have any major problem with sex work and I I don't think that we should stigmatize women who do it as much as we do. >> Okay. Your thoughts? I mean, >> um I kind of just go with the flow. I I
00:35:06
Nick Leedon't have an opinion. >> Just look. You're good. >> I I don't really have an opinion. It's kind of just uh maybe not the most favorable thing, but it's something that people are going to engage in either way. So, >> they can do some good though for people.
00:35:17
Brian Atlas>> Really quick before we dive into that topic, I had a question for you. Um, so you've been with Kate for almost 12 years. When you first met her, she I don't imagine you were doing any form of
00:35:30
Brian Atlassex work, at least when you guys first met. Uh, it I'm imagining about midway into the relationship. Uh, you do start either on Patreon or on Only Fans, you
00:35:40
Brian Atlasdo start getting involved, engaged in sex work. Um, was this like a mutual kind of push? Were How did you feel? cuz I I've heard some guys are like, [snorts]
00:35:52
Brian Atlas>> I don't know how I feel about my girl doing this kind of stuff. So, what was when I guess that sort of came about very initially in the beginning? Did you
00:36:01
Nick Leehave thoughts on that? >> Um, I wasn't like it was a way more diluted version of it, I guess. Like on Patreon, it's like a
00:36:11
Nick Leeyou know, you might gate a bikini picture um behind pay wall, right? >> Yeah. They were a lot more strict. um that I still remember it was like one of the cosplayers that she followed and looked up to who was, you know, kind of
00:36:23
Nick Leebig at the time. She announced that she had made 8,000 a month on Patreon and like at that point in time still like cosplay and mostly online stuff. It's like an artist starving artist like
00:36:35
Nick Leeenclave and so like 8,000 was all the money in the world and um I think you kind of just replicated you know some of the things and like you know the bikinis aren't even as lwd or whatever and so for me that was just like I mean this
00:36:47
Amouranthcould have gone on Instagram and so I had no problem with it. Yeah. >> Okay. And it kind of just I as it grew it was kind of just like a mutual discussion per I guess level of like more not safer work you get and then we
00:37:00
Amouranthjust saw an opportunity >> and like I don't I don't collab with other guys on it right he's the only guy I've ever been with so it's a lot of solo stuff so never really came up as an issue
00:37:10
Nick Lee>> okay so you don't do external >> uh BG content no do you guys do BG content together no >> yeah we've we've uh you know taken advantage of uh like uh you how the talk
00:37:22
Nick Leegoes and like sometimes we'll do like a Tik Tok or like a story where there's like implication that there might be another person there and then they might even show up but like it never actually makes its way into the the content. Yeah. >> Okay. But you guys haven't actually done
00:37:34
Brian Atlasanything together >> on that. Okay. >> And has any of the OAF stuff created any relationship issues at all? Any conflict?
00:37:48
Nick Lee>> [snorts] >> Um, no. I don't think it's like not the OF stuff. >> Yeah. I mean, it's like uh it's more just, you know, working with your spouse is like a whole different ballgame. Uh I don't think it's specific to OAF. I
00:38:00
Nick Leethink it's just more specific to, >> you know, uh us working together. And like I joke that we're like, you know, married maybe 20 years because like, you know, what is the average person's uh how much time does the average person
00:38:11
Nick Leespend with their spouse in a year, right? We're like I think what within 40 ft of each other for the last 11 years. Yeah. >> That's got to be doubling up on you know
00:38:22
Amouranthum how much time you spend together. So >> yeah cuz he does like all the analytical parts of uh social media >> and the strategy and stuff like that and I I just for the longest time would just live stream and then I would film content.
00:38:34
Nick Lee>> Do you have other people come in and film your scenes like for >> We've had other girl photographers in the past but now mostly just a tripod. >> Oh gosh. scaled back uh during the heyday. Um we had like teams of people
00:38:46
Nick Leeand then they would come up with everything ideas and stuff. It was very professionalized kind of like what you guys have here is like her getting run through a list of like possible topics, trending things, things that are working and then her kind of checking off what she wanted to do and then they would
00:38:59
Nick Leejust film and they would like knock it all out in one day in a month and then that was kind of the Yeah. >> But to be clear, sorry. >> Yeah, go ahead. There's You don't do any other male to female
00:39:13
Courtneycontent? >> No, >> just solo stuff. >> Yeah, >> because I I did I don't want to do some R&D before I came and I did subscribe [laughter] >> and I was like, okay. And I thought I
00:39:25
Courtneysaw cuz I can usually tell, but maybe the it's just toy manufacturing has gotten very very good, but it I promise it was it looked very real. >> Thank you. It's funny because the brand
00:39:36
Nick Leeuh of that toy is called real, you know. >> Did you just say that you subscribe to her >> for R&D? >> Oh, okay. >> Research and development. >> Girls, girl, you can't hate. >> So,
00:39:47
Nick Lee>> I thought she was had a sale. [laughter] >> It's called real C, you know, aster CK. That's what those are called. Yeah, cuz they are hyperrealistic. >> So now it's 30 million in 15. Is that >> because of you? You put it over.
00:40:00
Brian Atlas[laughter] >> Oh. Oh, that's what it's Okay, got it. Thank you. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Real chicken. >> Yeah. >> Does it bother Does it bother you at all like that there's
00:40:12
Brian Atlasthousands, tens of thousands, millions of men just being [ __ ] degenerate gooners over your wife? Does that bother you at all? >> I guess I've always approached it from
00:40:23
Nick Leelike, you know, uh who doesn't want to be potentially married to like an A-list uh you know, Hollywood star, right? And it's like that happens whether she makes, you know, like any kind of content like that or not, you know, like
00:40:35
Nick Leeit's unavoidable. And so it's almost just like if it's happening, you know, like somewhere then does it really >> I mean it definitely happens more though. >> No. Yeah, for sure. >> Like significantly more. >> So yeah, that's I I guess that's that's
00:40:48
Andrew Wilsonthe heart of the questions. It's always hard for people, I think, to reconcy
00:41:04
Andrew Wilsonthings like that. I'm guessing that that's like that's got that's got to be tough to watch though, right? I think >> now I I think maybe like I I agree if I was dating someone who was doing OAF
00:41:16
Nick Leebefore I was kind of steeped in all the the thing. I think so. But because of the way it kind of started, we were kind of on the thing together, like every part of it was like, "Huh, is this something that uh we would do
00:41:28
Nick Leepotentially?" And and and if so, like for what, right? >> Um and I think when the decisions are made in that way, it's a little different. It feels like there was either of us could have basically been against it and that probably would have
00:41:40
Nick Leebeen the end of it. Um but both of us were kind of on board and then we could kind of tap out whenever uh we wanted to in theory. Are you going to have kids? >> Uh, we kind of decided when we were dating that we didn't want kids.
00:41:53
Andrew Wilson>> Yeah. >> We spent a lot of time with my brother's three kids and that's kind of the way she gets the the kids feel. >> Yeah. >> A lot of animals. >> The question that comes up obviously all the time. I'm sure you've heard it before is like, "What happens when
00:42:05
Andrew Wilsonlittle Johnny comes home and is like, I got beat up at school because, you know, people are like, look at your mom." And like what's the navigational principle there? Even if you have kids that aren't
00:42:17
Andrew Wilsonyours but are around, >> that could happen to them too, right? Especially >> uh considering if people are breaking into your house, I'm guessing and yeah, I hate even saying that, but I'm guessing you've been toxed all over the
00:42:28
Nick Leeplace like most of us have, right? >> Um so I mean that's a real possibility, right? So how do you navigate that? >> I have a variant perception on that. Like I when I hear it, it's kind of like I don't know like uh I can see where
00:42:40
Nick Leethat logic, you know, kind of uh comes from. Um, and especially like if you say like uh, you know, like in the mid 2000s, little Johnny grew up and his mom was like one of the first online, you know, P stars. That would be kind of a I
00:42:53
Nick Leethink that would be pretty bad, right? But like I think going forward, the way I see it, OF became so ubiquitous and then like, you know, it's still not like fully like, you know, like a a a PE company studio production.
00:43:06
Andrew Wilson>> Yeah. >> I actually think that like no one's going to care by that time it rolls around. And >> we already have those kids. Like we have reports of kids getting bullied over it and that one kid he uh he you know
00:43:17
Andrew Wilsonhealed himself right because of the incessant like kids are cruel right they can't help themselves it's part of how they engage with the world especially young men >> you know like you probably remember when you were in school you know we're all
00:43:29
Andrew Wilson[ __ ] >> so I mean I fully expect that that's not going to change [laughter] right >> I think I mean this is probably a den view of society but I think that like
00:43:40
Nick Leeyou know having uh financial resources is going to be way more important than like that social aspect because like especially now like I mean sure you can bully a kid for his mom doing OF but you can bully a kid for anything or nothing
00:43:52
Andrew Wilsonat all and incessantly 24/7. >> Yeah. But it's like scalable, right? So if if you're getting bullied for being fat, it's like okay, you can lose weight, right? If you're getting bullied for being ugly, maybe you could do some things about that, which uh which kids
00:44:04
Andrew Wilsongets the half of bullying with men, for instance, is part of that like >> look, you need to get your [ __ ] together, right? Uh in order to be part of the inroup, but you can't like take that part away, >> right? You can't take that. You could be
00:44:17
Andrew Wilsonyou could even be like, well, mom quit. Mom, stop doing it. >> And uh they don't like we don't care. They got the videos, right? In the in the information age. So, I think isn't isn't it like scalable that way? I
00:44:28
Nick Leeactually think um I feel worse for the people who are going to get bullied whose mom didn't do o cuz like how hard is it to be like I found his mom's o and she never did it. >> What do you [clears throat] mean?
00:44:41
Nick Lee>> I mean everyone uses a screen name. You just have to find someone who kind of similarly looked like you know their mom potentially would at a younger age. You can like there's going to be kids manufacturing that as a way to bully and so like you know >> Yeah. But there's still you can still uh
00:44:54
Andrew Wilsonhide behind the fact of the matter, right? So, like if it's the case that you're you're saying like, "But yeah, I got it." But the fact of the matter is, >> and when we're looking at AI, here's something that's interesting because you
00:45:06
Andrew Wilsonbring up a good point. I hadn't thought about this before. Like, okay, well, they could just make this [ __ ] up anyway, right? >> I was in a Discord call the other day with a Zoomer I was talking to. I don't remember, some politics something, and
00:45:18
Andrew Wilsonhe sent me an AI video, and I had to take a double take at it. Like I thought at first it was and I realized something important which is that because of this age gap I got great social skills. Zoomers didn't really get great social
00:45:30
Andrew Wilsonskills. They got different skills. And one skill they have is when it's fake media they can [ __ ] tell in 5 seconds. Like it's crazy. They can just look at it and be like, "Nope, that shit's fake. Look at this, this, this,
00:45:42
Andrew Wilsonthis." You can they can tell that [ __ ] And it's because their brains have been wired towards that. And mine was not. Right. It was wired towards having social interactions. So that built a different skill set. Zoomers, they have
00:45:54
Andrew Wilsona completely different way in which they engage with the world. So I'm not I guess I'm not all that convinced that even if AI advances, if your mind is being wired with the AI as it advances,
00:46:05
Nick Leeit seems like you can tell way easier when it's [ __ ] I definitely think there's an element of that. Like it's very bad for like boomer people. Like I had a therapist show, you know, I don't know why he did it in the middle of a session. and he showed me an Elon Musk
00:46:17
Nick Leevideo that I was like I I didn't I didn't know how to tell him that that's not Elon Musk saying that thing. >> But like uh on that note, um I would love to see the study where it's like, you know, able to tell that that's uh
00:46:29
Nick LeeAI, but like what is that person's position on the video? Because what I found is that if you want to believe it, you're going to buy the AI. And it's like kind of like a lot of times when you're neutral or you don't want to believe it where you start looking at it
00:46:42
Nick Leecritically and you'll see the seams. If you want to believe it, and that's the bullying part, right? If uh you know, your kid wants to bully my kid, even if she never was on OF, >> boom, AI, there's a video. Look at that. And especially if your kid's popular,
00:46:54
Andrew Wilsonjust point it around. Look, his mom's on OF, >> right? And that can happen to anyone's kids, whether their mom did or didn't do it. So, >> but like I said, I agree, but you still have the fact on your side. And so, it's at least something to give you vindication like, hey, this isn't even
00:47:07
Andrew Wilsontrue, right? This is nonsense. I agree with you that you could you could do this with anything, >> but I think that you at least have a shield if you're like, "No, that that that's all that's all bullshit." My mom, you know, my mom is a dietician in
00:47:19
Andrew WilsonChicago. Okay, she's not she's never done any of that. Um, and I I do think that their brains are wired a little different where they can tell like and and they even they have they even have the name, right? AI slop. That's AI
00:47:30
Andrew Wilsonslop. It's AI slop. That's AI garbage. They can tell in five seconds. It's because that technology they're growing with it and to us we're being introduced to it you know rather than having it part of the relational you know now
00:47:43
Andrew Wilsonmaybe you and I different because we're streamers so you probably see AI slop all the time right like constantly everywhere that you're looking but for the average I don't think that's the case at all I think that zoomers are seeing a lot of it and they're messing with it and they're playing with it
00:47:56
Andrew Wilsonthey're playing with the music they're playing with everything >> but they seem like they can detect it pretty easy and anytime you have uh like um like a generation which is interacting with a specific type of AI
00:48:08
Andrew Wilsonor not AI technology. It seems like they can spot when when things are faked by that technology much easier >> for now. >> For now. >> Well, how will it be in 10 years? >> Yeah. I don't know. You know, uh I've
00:48:20
Andrew Wilsonbeen hearing that about AI for a long time and um you know, I remember the old chat bots. You know, the old chat bots used to be able to search the internet and pull all kinds of stuff up, too. It's uh I know that people are really
00:48:33
Courtneykind of getting behind the whole AI is going to take over the world thing. I'm pretty skeptical. >> We have to be clear between functional
00:48:40
Courtneygeneration with programs that can create pictures out of just um but it it uses a a a data bank, if you will, of
00:48:52
Courtneypictures that it can collab together and then produce a result that looks very real. But um we must also understand in
00:49:01
Courtneyour generation is that AI is the highest form of plagiarism. It can only produce what has already been produced. And yes, it does it does
00:49:13
Courtneylike sew things together in a way that it makes it something that's different. But just like programming like as a programmer too, it's it it suggests code
00:49:24
Shonathat's already been written. So it's Janna, did you have a question? >> Oh, no, no. I I just had thoughts on something that was spoken about earlier regarding like bullying of the kids of Only Fans models. And I think when it
00:49:36
Shonacomes to a bullying issue, I don't think people should be told to like fix the thing that they're being bullied for or like even on the parents end, I think that has a lot more to do with the bully in general and that bullying itself should be countered. So, like if you
00:49:48
Shonahave a bully who's going to incessantly bully a kid of an Only Fans model to the point where like their life is severely negatively affected, regardless if they come across that kid or not or their like we have like there's no more Only Fans models, that kid is still a bully
00:50:02
Shonaand they're still going to find a target and relentlessly bully them for whatever. So, I think that's where the issue should be counted rather than saying fix what you're being bullied for. on the parent. >> It's interesting
00:50:14
Andrew Wilsonyou have these conversations on bullying especially or um or things like this like what's if you wanted to improve like the status of your social group or somebody wants to be a part of it or something like that. Isn't there a
00:50:26
Andrew Wilsoncertain amount of hazing that's just kind of intrinsic? Like there's a there's a bit of hazing which is just kind of always part of the process of human social activity. So, if you're going to tell a woman, for instance, um that she was really overweight in high
00:50:40
Andrew Wilsonschool and like, you know, it's unhealthy, right? And maybe, you know, she's not the most pleasant person to uh to be around because of it, you know, or something like this. How do you even approach that without it reaching the
00:50:52
Andrew Wilsonaspect of bullying? Like, what's the difference between marking you need to do this for self-improvement and and not like it can't both be perceived as bullying? >> I don't think it's people in her school's job to like meanly make fun of her weight or anything. thing. I think
00:51:05
Shonait's the job of people in her life, such as her family, if she's overweight, to like let her know about that and make sure she becomes healthy. >> Yeah, sure. But those people >> I don't think hazing and bullying is >> Yeah. But those people still want to be part of social groups cuz we're human
00:51:17
Andrew Wilsonbeings, right? We're pack animals. >> And if you want to be a part of a social group, they're going to they're going to like have some kind of hazing ritual for you no matter what. >> Well, you're talking more about like a clicky popular group. >> Not even a clicky popular group. Just
00:51:29
Shonaevery group. today in in like schools there's like normal people who aren't weird like that and who won't like reject you from that doesn't seem to be the case or we wouldn't be we crying about bullying all the time all over the internet everybody right oh I've been
00:51:42
Andrew Wilsonbullied at school and bullied at school and bullied at school and it's like you get through the details a lot of times it looks like regular social hazing to me now I understand edge cases or extreme cases where it's just like incessant and they just won't lay off
00:51:54
Andrew Wilsonright even when I was in high school that was the case >> but that that sort of social hazing still happens and and in some and to some degree I think it's pretty healthy to have social hazing. Um it it kind of
00:52:08
Andrew Wilsonputs people the direction that they're supposed to be where they're supposed to go. The groups that are more uh you know in line with what their values or structures are, right? And that's isn't that part of the hazing process? >> Well, you just mentioned like being in line with people's values because that's
00:52:20
Shonawhat friendship is based on. It's based on character. So if you were rejecting someone from your friend group or not being friends with someone because of their body shape, I think that's very superficial and beyond the scope of
00:52:32
Andrew Wilsonhealthy >> social. So I I'm not sure because like uh like overt characteristics can tell you a lot about a person, you know, like if they don't have a medical like for
00:52:41
Andrew Wilsoninstance um let's take her for instance, right? Um there ain't no way that that didn't take you years of hard ass [ __ ] work to do. There ain't no way, right? That took years and year. And by the way,
00:52:54
Andrew Wilson>> the amount the diet >> that like IFBB pro bodybuilders have to go through. Holy [ __ ] It's like it's so brutal. It's I mean it's like that's a lot of discipline. So people like that
00:53:07
Andrew Wilsonare probably not going to you know they might have people are IFBB you know pro friends or things but the value structure is kind of leaning towards I'm very disciplined. I'm very regimented.
00:53:18
Andrew WilsonI'm very goal oriented and I and by the way I can stick with something in order to get to the results of that thing. >> Yeah. >> And so if other people, you know, if they're like morbidly obese for
00:53:28
Andrew Wilsoninstance, right? Uh that would be setting out the flags. Hey, I have completely different structured values than you do in the way that I live life, right? And wouldn't that be a red flag for you and like your social group?
00:53:40
Andrew WilsonLike, hey, maybe may maybe we should vet this person a little a little bit. And I think that that's healthy. I mean, I think I certainly agree that like overt like your appearance can't like for example in that example can tell you a
00:53:52
Shonalot about a person, but I still think friendship goes a lot beyond that. >> Like if you really had a genuine connection with this overweight person, then I think you could still certainly have a good friendship with >> I think I think we're saying the same
00:54:05
Andrew Wilsonthing, right? But you're talking you're talking about a connection barrier now, right? So, how do you connect? >> It wouldn't it wouldn't barrier me from connecting a lot of a lot of normal people. >> Sure. Sure. I'm not saying you specifically. I'm just talking about a
00:54:15
Andrew Wilsonconnection barrier between social groups and other people. And it's like, look, I it it doesn't look like it's changed that much to me. Usually, ugly kids hang out with ugly kids and good-looking kids hang out with good-looking kids, and fat kids hang out with fat kids.
00:54:29
Andrew Wilson>> I wouldn't say it's not binary. >> What's that? Well, it's not it's not that clean, but you get what I'm saying, right? Like, social groups seem to formulate around similar value structures. And so, it's like, >> well, that's not fully value structures.
00:54:41
Andrew Wilson>> Can I say something about that? Well, I think I think it is because that's what the example is when you're talking about like somebody who's >> regiment ugly kids hang out with ugly kids. Being ugly is not a value structure.
00:54:51
Andrew Wilson>> No, no, that's not the value structure. The value structure is the tell of like how's this going to interact with my group structure and how's this going to interact with the way that I interact with other things. That's how people now we don't do we don't think about these
00:55:04
Andrew Wilsonthings, right? They're kind of intuitive, >> but that is how social paradigms work. We vet people based just even purely on looks. We do this. You're going to be way more likely, for instance, for a guy to pull over and change your tire if
00:55:17
Andrew Wilsonyou're good-looking. And that's if you're a guy or a girl, >> right? Rather than if you're obese, guy or a girl. And the reason is why why do you think that is? It's like it seems like um >> yeah, people judge based on appearance.
00:55:31
ShonaBut what I also want to add is having just graduated high school and witnessing clicks and friend groups all around me, I want to say that the most longlasting healthy friendships or friend groups don't take those superficial external external factors as
00:55:43
Shonaseriously. >> There wasn't hazing in these groups. >> There was, but the groups that that took that more seriously did not last as long, did not have as healthy of a group dynamic. They would talk about each other behind their back. Like >> I mean that's common.
00:55:56
Shona>> Friend groups and friendships that are not so based on those sorts of things are a lot healthier and better. And I also want to ask you a question. If you had a close friend who suddenly like gained a lot of weight to the point of becoming overweight, would you suddenly distance yourself from >> Oh my god, we would be so mean to him.
00:56:09
Andrew Wilson[laughter] >> We would be so we we would be just I mean we would be [ __ ] horrible. But the thing is is like I had a time where I gained a bunch of weight. People were [ __ ] horrible to me. And the thing is is like it's kind of good, right? It's
00:56:20
Andrew Wilsonkind of good. It's like there's a there's a motivating factor like look if you the I hate to bring this back to you again, right? these like IFBB pros and these these bodybuilders and [ __ ]
00:56:32
Andrew Wilson>> they are the meanest [ __ ] people to each other. [laughter] >> Oh. To each other. >> To each other. To each other. Yeah. They're the meanest [ __ ] people to each other, right? But it's not malicious. >> Yeah. It's it's not malicious. It's like >> it can be a lot of the time to other
00:56:46
Andrew Wilsonpeople. >> I know from from the outsers's perspective, if you were to see some of these people when they're working out and they're like, "No, pump it up, you [ __ ] One more." you know, like but there's a powerful motivator there
00:56:57
Melissa (Bodybuilder)that's not designed to be malicious. >> I want to throw in but to people not on that level, >> I would say I generally these
00:57:08
Melissa (Bodybuilder)bodybuilders are the kindest people we put ourselves through >> in our minds and our close people through. >> We we know what that's like. like no
00:57:20
Shonaone's worse to myself >> and I completely I I completely believe that. But a high school bully who's relentlessly bullying someone for their weight to the point of effing up their mental health, what I'm saying is social
00:57:32
Melissa (Bodybuilder)hazing can draw those kinds of extremes. And therefore, that's why I believe in >> count. Social hazing and then bullying to the point of like one's life are >> totally agree. I'd love to say something about that cuz I went through that
00:57:44
Willowhorrendously growing up. So I actually got kicked out of school. school. I was put in a therapeutic day school. I self harmmed for 12 years. I was obese until 19. I was a binge eater and then I um got diagnosed and went into anorexia for
00:57:57
Willowthree years. So I lost a bunch of weight. I was over 330 lbs. But I got blackmailed, right? So I got black by blackmailed by two high school boys who like sent my photos around the school and kids every day would come to school and tell me that I was fat and pick on
00:58:10
Willowme because I grew up with wellwater. And eventually I got kicked out because I was constantly suicidal. I was in and out of the mental hospital and this was when cyber bullying became like a big thing like everybody was on MySpace,
00:58:22
Willoweverybody was on Facebook. Now I can say >> it has motivated me as a person now when I was 13 to 16 and I was cutting myself every day and I was on mental health pills and you know I never fit in. I was
00:58:34
Willownever accepted and still until this day like where I'm accepted now I created that community. I started an online community that I run around the world with women. It's been hard for me to interject myself into society in a way
00:58:46
Willowthat other people accept me, whether they see my arms or maybe I'm really high anxiety. And it caused it took me years to love myself. Years and years and years to come to a place where I was like, I don't care what people think
00:58:59
Willowabout me. I'm going to dress how I want. I'm going to listen to the music that I like. And so I think I do agree with what you're saying where it does it can be a motivator, but I really think it depends.
00:59:09
Andrew Wilson>> I'm not I don't even think I I think this can be misconstrued a bit. So when she said there's a difference between hazing and bullying them to the the brink of like going to unal alive
00:59:21
Andrew Wilsonthemselves. I agree with that. Right. I do think that there's social hazing though >> and I think that it is healthy and I think that it is necessary and it doesn't even always have to be super brutal. Like the way that women socially
00:59:33
Andrew Wilsonhaze usually usually I think that that's actually more brutal than the way that men [clears throat] do. Okay? I think it's way more brutal than men. It's like we just look at each other and we're like, "You [ __ ] idiot. You're wearing the wrong shit." And we push each other and shove each other and do [ __ ] like
00:59:45
Andrew Wilsonthat and whatever. No one cares. Right? But women do all kinds of like backbiting and rumor mongering and all sorts of things to [ __ ] test and it can be I understand that. Right? But what