1v1 DEBATE: Andrew Wilson vs. Marxist Anti-Trump Feminist | Whatever Debates #11
Date: 2025-03-16
Duration: 7h 34m
Brian AtlasIdentified Speakers
SPEAKER_01Andrew Wilson(guest)
SPEAKER_04Brian Atlas(host)
SPEAKER_05Miss Kenzie(guest)
Key Moments
00:02:09
IntroBrian introduces debate: Andrew Wilson vs Miss Kenzie on feminism
00:35:40
Key MomentAndrew's slavery hypothetical: if all men decided to enslave women, women could not resist
02:07:00
ControversyAndrew admits waking wife with sex. Kenzie classifies as rape.
03:17:00
Key MomentAndrew cites USSR: fully legal abortion led to 3 abortions per 1 live birth
04:58:20
Key MomentAndrew presses Kenzie on body count. She repeatedly refuses. 'If it doesn't matter why won't you tell?'
06:31:40
Key MomentKenzie's TikTok: Whatever deliberately books unprepared women against prepared conservatives to humiliate them
Topics Discussed
00:07:00
Feminism vs Marxism
Andrew: first-wave feminism fed women into capitalism, contradicting Marxism. Kenzie distinguishes liberal from Marxist feminism.
00:35:00
Force Doctrine
Andrew: men's biological physical superiority = monopoly on force. Slavery hypothetical.
02:07:00
Sexual Consent
Andrew admits waking wife with sex. Kenzie classifies as rape under FRIES model. Both agree holding down = rape.
03:05:00
Abortion
Kenzie: no restrictions all 9 months. Andrew cites USSR 3:1 abortion ratio. Semantic bait-and-switch debate.
04:05:00
Purity Culture and Virginity
Andrew: virgins report highest marital satisfaction. Kenzie refuses to disclose body count.
06:26:40
Whatever Podcast Misogyny TikTok
Brian plays Kenzie's TikTok calling Whatever a misogynistic abuse space. Brian refutes: 15% OF guests, women reach out.
07:17:30
Closing Statements
Andrew: proprietary definitions. Kenzie: precise terminology, restorative justice.
Transcript
Page 4 of 9
02:51:05
Brian Atlascorrect good times good times you were going to do like I think you you stopped at at two videos on this a whatever
02:51:15
Brian Atlaspodcast companion yeah what well that microphone came out of nowhere what happened what happened to the whatever podcast companion you stopped at two
02:51:26
Brian Atlasepisodes a little disappointed um well um sometimes you want to pour it and then we'll just put it off the table
02:51:33
Miss Kenziesure sometimes my execution isn't great um I did a I I used to do a reaction to
02:51:42
Miss Kenzieum do do you know what what live action is live action the anti- uh yeah the anti-abortion yeah yeah I used to do a series on them and it felt like I was
02:51:54
Miss Kenziejust kind of reacting to the same things over and over you you got to find something more novel whatever podcast okay no I mean the the honest answer to your question is just consistency okay
02:52:05
Andrew Wilsonuh well now that we have you both back here we do have some chat I want to just very quickly point out though that you did contradict yourself when you said that disabled people should be allowed and then when they shouldn't be allowed
02:52:16
Miss KenzieI I I said it depends on um um like obviously the capacity like yeah if you have the mental age of a 9-year-old then then no but if you have the mental age of an 18-year-old right but you just are
02:52:27
Andrew Wilsonimpaired to the fact that you are always kind of just in the same capacity as a drunk person at 40 and I I don't think that those I think that those are false equivalences what's the false equivalence it's the
02:52:40
Miss Kenzieimpairment right the impairment is what matters um well no because I I think that like being drunk is a different imp parent than maybe having like mental limitations but it is the impairment
02:52:51
Miss Kenzieitself that's the problem uh again it's you know when we're talking about people who have mental limitations it can be in certain aspects of like understanding
02:53:01
Andrew Wilsonconcepts and cognition not necessarily like the same that you are when you're when you're drunk yeah can you just do me one solid and this is kind of a parody right a little bit this is a littlear where
02:53:14
Andrew Wilsonthere I just had I just had this is like a tiny bit of trolling this is right how exciting can you just look at the camera and tell every woman out there who's ever been woken up by their husband with
02:53:25
Miss Kenziesex that their husband's a grapest if your husband is having sex with you while you're unconscious your husband is a greatest including if he just wakes you up with his penis right
02:53:35
SPEAKER_02he's having sex with you unconscious so they're Grapist right mhm okay I also just Brian have you ever huh have you have you ever woke a woman up with sex I'm a virgin Brian have you ever done
02:53:46
SPEAKER_02that I'm I'm a virgin hey over there what is a vir what about you bro have you have you ever done it even once have you ever woke a chck up with sex bro you had you're so a Grapist there
02:53:58
Brian AtlasGrapist here grap just Grapist well hold on I'm a he just said he a I'm a virgin yeah yeah um and wait one was did this also apply like to women too just as a point of clarification like if his wife
02:54:11
Miss KenzieRachel wakes him up with she already said my wife's a Grapist your his wife is a Grapist if if you are if you if you are okay if you are having sex with someone who is unconscious then yes you
02:54:23
Brian Atlasdo not have expressed consent wait question though if they uh if they pre if they give you permission beforeand they can't because they're impaired they can't retract it right that's the world well wait when you're sleeping you're
02:54:36
Miss Kenzienot impaired but I I do think there is issues when it comes to like reversible like do let me let me ask you do you think that it's immoral to have sex with someone in a coma yes why has a violation of Christian
02:54:51
Miss Kenzieethics so so that's just it just because God says so that isn't that enough of a standard well well no cuz I I want to know like what's the so if God said don't wake your wife up with sex then for you it'd be like that would change
02:55:04
Andrew Wilsonthe nature of God done for God to change his mind where does God say in the Bible wake your wife up with sex it well it's not implicit doesn't need to be implicit
02:55:15
Andrew Wilsonso the thing is though is that uh you can find this in Paul where he tells couples not to deprive each other and that couples should not deprive each other and so you would say so do you think your wife has an obligation to sleep with you I think we both have an
02:55:28
Andrew Wilsonobligation to sleep with each other and if she doesn't want to including if I don't want to yes so I'm asking if she doesn't want to then yes I think she has an obligation I have an obligation same way do you think
02:55:40
Andrew Wilsonyou can rape your wife I'm sorry rape your wife I think that there is instances where you can yes and what would those instances generally speaking violent holding them down doing things
02:55:49
Andrew Wilsonlike this I think that things like that would be considered C she not upholding her Duty that's true she can violate her duty but that doesn't give you a right to hold her down and grape her okay so
02:56:01
Andrew WilsonI'm I'm glad we agree that marital grape is the thing that's that's a relief nobody would ever dispute that who has reason I I've talked to a lot of Christians who who don't think marital
02:56:11
Brian Atlasgrape is real no okay no uh so we have uh thank you Spyro for the superp chat really quick before we get into some of the reads really wait yeah I think there
02:56:22
Andrew WilsonI think I have one uh clip posted on my Tik Tok like what if they want to do well it doesn't matter all right anyway no
02:56:32
Andrew Wilsonplease finish your thought well like I mean what if they want to like um you know like I don't know sodomizer with like an object or something like that they would have to concede then that
02:56:44
Miss Kenziethis would be against the a violation of Christian ethics um well I mean they they just think that if you're married uh then you have signed a contract I think there is
02:56:56
Miss Kenzieimplied consent with marriage yes I uh that you've signed a contract that you know your body is your partners in all instances under all circumstances I think there's implied consent there but
02:57:07
Miss Kenzienot in all circumstances I mean I I do agree that there in um can be implied consent um in terms of like some acts sure yeah
02:57:19
Brian AtlasI okay uh really quick so I just want to shout a couple people out here we can uh all right so Anna thank you for the 10 on venmo MC rocker thank you for the 12 on cash app AJ thank for for the one on
02:57:32
Brian Atlascash app and George thank you for the 10 on cash app guys if you want 100% of your contribution to go towards us you can do it through either Veno cash app that's whatever pod now we have a message coming through here we have
02:57:43
Brian Atlasabout four of them we have Lucas says up man uh did she just claim that uh Homo sapiens realized having sex
02:57:55
Brian Atlasresults and having children only 10,000 years ago so how did Homo sapiens have babies for the 290 100,000 million preceding years
02:58:04
Brian Atlas290,000 preceding years preceding years did the stories uh did the STS bring them um I'm just saying that men didn't understand their contribution within sex
02:58:16
Miss KenzieI think they did okay I think that there's uh there's a lot they just thought that women just magically became pregnant even in like Australian uh I always have a hard time pronouncing I think some tribes did and
02:58:28
Andrew WilsonI think that there's good evidence that uh that other people uh even up to if you're if you have the evolutionary mindset um there's no reason for us to
02:58:37
Andrew Wilsonassume that human beings didn't understand that um if I'm not having sex with woman woman not getting pregnant I
02:58:47
Brian Atlasthink that that's very simple correlate to make so I do need to move it on to the next one but we have Brooks here he says uh based Squad moist Mafia Crucible
02:58:59
Brian Atlascrew W Andrew and Rachel W Kum Tunes W host Brandon whatever W Kiki the show will live in notoriety forever the positive form of notoriety naturally hey uh Brooks Josh I think that's from Josh
02:59:12
Brian AtlasBrooks thank you so much for your message there via streamlabs uh can you hide the super the this part so it's not blocking she definitely being a bedroom Ken a lot of
02:59:23
Brian Atlaspeople myself included have experienced both sides of these actions just say you're boring and can't understand having fun in the bedroom and move on do you want to respond to
02:59:33
Miss Kenziethat um sure again I I don't know why wanting my partner to be a full cognition and be conscious is me being a Karen well I mean you don't really care
02:59:44
Andrew Wilsonabout that too much though right like if he has two beers he's not fully cognitive at that point he's not drunk he's not fully cognitive though he's he's not drunk but he's not fully
02:59:56
Miss Kenziecognitive and you just said I want him to be cogn if he like has
03:00:05
Miss Kenzieum like a buzz not not even a buzz um but that's not fully cognitive or or like a standard of cognition for sure
03:00:18
Andrew WilsonI mean I think you can be buzzed and fully cognitive I yeah I mean I maybe I don't no I don't think so I think that it's so going to lower cognition by some degree no matter
03:00:30
Andrew Wilsonwhat prove it is that what I say yeah I think I think we can demonstrate that if you have a buzz it's going to to some degree lower cognition no I think it can
03:00:39
Andrew Wilsonamplify cognition like have do do you bowl yeah I bow yeah uh I bowl so good when when I'm a little buz yeah but it could be because lowering your cognition is helpful for some external reasons
03:00:52
Andrew Wilsonlike um I think I have heighten cognition I can just see the pins better maybe or it's possible that you have just less inhibitions right or uh less proh prohibit prohibit that you give your body when you're bullying or it
03:01:06
Andrew Wilsoncould be that you trick yourself because your cognition is a little lowered into thinking that you have these skills you don't have and so you perform better I just trick myself yeah so you perform better yeah all right we have two more
03:01:17
Brian Atlaschats here here coming in we have Lucas all right let me Venture a guest she's got a degree in chender studies or psychology I can't think of a more virent mind virus strand than what spews
03:01:29
Brian Atlasout of a white chick and if you want to read along they're they pop up on the screen uh of a white chick liberal feminist thank God for Maga um do you want he says she's or he asks if you
03:01:42
Brian Atlashave a degree in gender studies or psychology I do not okay and I'm not a liberal not a liberal huh okay uh you're how do you describe yourself Marxist leftist leftist Mar okay got we have a
03:01:53
Brian Atlasmessage from Spyro is it Spiro or Spyro it's speo speo do you know these people I know I know that one that gu the name is familiar he says I will demonstrate
03:02:03
Brian Atlasdual grap ISM a burrito cannot speak so it cannot consent to to Brian a burrito cannot speak so it cannot ask for Brian's consent don't matter though
03:02:13
Brian AtlasBrian likes it both ways wow that is first off they really do I had a burrito bowl today just to get one thing did it cons is that is that a it wasn't it
03:02:24
Brian Atlaswasn't a burrito it was a bowl inside joke I don't know of yeah yeah they joke about my burrito consumption mhm among other things burritos are amazing I'm a
03:02:33
Brian AtlasI'm a fan um okay so we have uh let's see here we got this uh this lady thinks theft grape are crimes arising from capitalism and controlled scarcity does
03:02:45
Brian Atlasshe realize that these are mentioned in the Ten Commandments long before capitalism ever existed that's from graffo TAG thank you graffo tag for that one do you want to respond to I don't know when I ever made the claim that
03:02:57
Miss Kenzielike grape is a result of capitalism um I think that capitalism creates certain conditions and so obviously when people don't have access to material possessions um then theft is
03:03:09
Brian Atlasgoing to occur okay all right now we have uh really quick before we just jump back into it we have a couple super chats guys we're 30 super chats we're 20 of 5050 30 super chats away from our
03:03:22
Brian Atlaspineapple pizza party and the roast session so H that we don't have to I'll probably do it no I'm kidding we I think we should hit it guys we got to hit it we got an hour and 15 minutes about an hour and 13 minutes if you want to hit
03:03:35
Brian Atlasthe the pizza party definitely got to hit the pizza party Andrew Andrew detests detests pineapple on his pizza so he will if we hit the threshold we he'll
03:03:45
Miss Kenziehave one slice you eat it no I'm not eat I'm forc Doctrine I guess we're going to see forc Doctrine in real real life we have a
03:03:56
Brian Atlassuper chat here from ichim thank you for the Super Chat ichim is she Stupid does didn't she just concede they agreed to the delineation was holding them down so by that logic Andrew isn't grape in his
03:04:08
Andrew Wilsonexample with Rachel do you want to respond to this um I I don't think a tenant of grape is that you need to be holding someone down is that what they're saying uh yeah she was she was just saying that she was happy that at least I had a
03:04:21
Brian Atlasdelineation that there could be marital rape right okay all right that's it for the supers why don't we uh jump into our next topic now we kind of veered off
03:04:31
Brian Atlasinto to a couple different paths do you guys feel as if we have thoroughly covered feminism I'm fine moving on to the next topic because I we could talk more about feminism are you sure is
03:04:43
Brian Atlasthere anything you anything on feminism you want to talk about um um I mean what what else is on your list I could give some prompts I mean one of the prompts that you had included was the wage gap
03:04:53
Brian Atlasfor example uh if perhaps we can do a short segment on wage Gap and then get into some of the I guess the more different well maybe we can save that because that's just there's just going
03:05:04
Brian Atlasto be a disagreement on the empirics so maybe we can save that one can I what um okay yeah did we uh okay so why we do we have
03:05:15
Brian Atlasuh a you're prompt abortion free and legal all 9 months legal with legal sorry you don't want to oh you do okay
03:05:25
Brian Atlasum so abortion free and legal all 9 months legal without restrictions so does this mean uh up until is there any point where yeah so I think it's important to
03:05:38
Miss Kenziedefine the term abortion which would be deliberate termination of pregnancy okay I think in some cases there can obviously be uh terminations of pregnancy that don't result in the death of the fetus
03:05:48
Andrew Wilsonum and I would opt for that uh post 24 weeks oh so it's a bit question what a disingenuous big question think it's disingenuous so let me make sure that I steal man this properly I just want to
03:06:02
Andrew Wilsonsteal man it I guess it's your turn go ahead I just want to steal Pam sure so it is the case that you're against all abortions after 24 weeks if they end the
03:06:13
Miss Kenzielife of the child uh no I think in the case obviously to preserve the pr the life of the pregnant person as well as in severe fetal abnormality would be my exceptions okay so you have exceptions
03:06:24
Miss Kenzieto it but generally so the vast vast majority of abortions would be immoral after 24 weeks um again I I don't think abortion just means lethal outcome if we are talking about lethal outcome I I
03:06:36
Andrew Wilsonjust don't see the the practicality in it yeah I I get it so you're you're saying that after um the 24-week mark mhm if if you're going to have an
03:06:48
Andrew Wilsonabortion because you whatever arbitrary reason you come up with that and you want it to end up in the termination of the child and the child's inside you you're not allowed to do that that that would be um that would be murder I would
03:07:01
Andrew Wilsonclassify yeah so then that's it's just a bait question so you don't actually think that there should be un so you're just making a semantic distinction you're you're saying this works on Tik Tok all the time too right for the
03:07:12
Miss Kenzieaudience yeah go ahead I I will uh give you um some cred there that I do think that often that that phrasing of free and legal 9 months can be very baiting
03:07:23
Miss Kenziebecause of how people view the term abortion um which is why I've also included uh without restriction and now on my prompts I just do pro-abortion yeah right because you
03:07:36
Andrew Wilsondo want restrictions uh no yeah right but only because the semantic distinction is something other than what people associate with abortion like Colorado doesn't have any legislation regarding
03:07:47
Miss Kenzieabortion and that's what I want I don't want legislation regarding abortion none Colorado has none so Canada doesn't have any I believe
03:07:56
Miss KenzieWashington is another state so what happens in Colorado if you do terminate the pregnancy at 8 months uh then it would just result in a live birth either a hysterotomy abortion
03:08:09
Miss Kenziewhich is similar to a cesarian or an induction abortion 6 months uh 30 weeks same thing again it would depend specifically on the con like uh
03:08:20
Miss Kenzieobviously um I had a friend uh when we were in our 20s um like I told you earlier I live in Montana and any kind of abortion past 24 weeks is illegal so she had to travel to Colorado uh because
03:08:32
Andrew Wilsonher son had a severe fetal abnormality and he would not uh survive birth yeah I get that but if they there is no problems with the pregnancy mhm right and there's no direct harm or threat to
03:08:44
Miss Kenziethe mother's Lively or the mother's health MH what happens if you want to terminate the pregnancy at 6 months then it would just result in an induction or a cesarian but at 6 months that could
03:08:56
Miss Kenzieeasily lead to the child's death it it could just like birth could you know premature birth could so wouldn't you want there to be legislation against that uh no yeah but
03:09:07
Miss Kenziethe chances are significantly higher can you tell me like cuz cuz this is always kind of where I get really frustrated with people who are pro-life is kind of
03:09:16
Miss Kenzieexpl to me the landscape of someone who has waited 30 weeks and then wants an abortion you know no longer to be pregnant for any reason
03:09:28
Miss Kenzieyeah okay what's the question can you explain the landscape cuz I feel like a lot of pro-lifers just kind of assume that there are people out there who are like 30 weeks just wake up like not
03:09:39
Miss Kenziefeeling the pregnancy anymore might as well just go get it taken care of if you don't think there's a problem there then why would you be adverse to legislation
03:09:49
Miss Kenziejust enforcing that you can't do because legislation creates complications within a very complex medical condition uh
03:09:58
Miss Kenziewhich we can see uh in uh primarily in Texas especially in Idaho to where you know how sick do you need to be how much In Harm's Way do you
03:10:10
Miss Kenzieneed to be before you can actually get access to an abortion or to to some kind of termination of pregnancy okay but legislation can also offer
03:10:20
Miss KenzieClarity right it doesn't yeah yeah it can offer Clarity it doesn't it can't or does not descriptive I don't see any uh effective
03:10:32
Miss Kenzielegislation why do we why do we have laws against murder I again I I think there can be instances or certain contexts where it can be specific if you want me to relate
03:10:44
Miss Kenziethat to abortion like specifically if we look at tax Texas has uh regulations regarding exceptions for life of the mother as well as health of the mother but this has created
03:10:55
Miss Kenziecomplications because uh the Texas legislature won't give specifics or even conditions which would qualify under one second under the exception they were
03:11:06
Miss Kenziesued yeah and asked to do so and the Supreme Court said they didn't have to yeah right so Clarity is your issue but you agree with me it's not Clarity no cuz again I I just think pregnancy is so
03:11:16
Miss Kenzienew want and it's so complex that legislation cannot effectively do it if we want to talk about like murder is also vastly
03:11:26
Andrew Wilsoncomplex extremely nuanced the justifications vary from literally municipality to municipality sure so but again I I think the ultimate Authority
03:11:37
Miss Kenzieand autonomy is with someone who is uh a medical professional and understands the health history of their patient as well as their the the own patient testimony of what's Happening well it's not going
03:11:49
Andrew Wilsonto be up to them it's going to be up to the person actually having the abortion right uh what do you mean what what well it's not up to the medical the medical professional is not making a prescription they're just executing the
03:12:01
Miss Kenzieprocedure some in some capacities they are making prescriptions in terms of this is what your you know these are where your vitals at this is what they this can lead to these are that they want to prevent those are desp what
03:12:14
Andrew Wilsonwe're going to do those are descriptive not prescriptive okay in terms of like what you ought to do okay I'm sorry what's your so so what you ought to do is going to be determined by the autonomy of the
03:12:25
Miss Kenziemother um not not necessarily then what's it going to be determined by um I mean I I would say like the pragmatics of the situation so who gets to make
03:12:35
Miss Kenziethat decision I think it can be a cohesive uh discussion but uh the doctor would have some Authority just like the doctor has Authority in terms of you
03:12:47
Miss Kenzieknow I go in and I want my leg uh amputated there's going to be um con specific context to where the doctor's not going to do it I don't I don't disagree with that in a matter prescribed by law but you're saying you
03:13:01
Andrew Wilsondon't want I don't think that is prescribed by law yeah but it yeah it is you can't T cut off a person's foot because they want you to that would be against the hypocrit oath well that hypocracy
03:13:15
Miss Kenziebinding yes it is are we talking about like civil law or are we talking about legisla yeah civil law civil law
03:13:25
Andrew Wilsonum and by the way there are actually specificities too within the medical Market of doctor discretion um not being like they can't for instance say no we're not going to
03:13:38
Andrew Wilsontreat you for the symptoms that you're complaining about they still have to treat you right and I'm sure exclude some aspects of treat I'm not even disputing that but in this Cas you're asking for no
03:13:49
Andrew Wilsonlegislation no no legislation no State legislation no federal legislation yeah correct yeah right so if you're saying no federal leg legislation no State legislation then the doctor can obvious
03:14:01
Andrew Wilsonyou can obviously have a Doctor Who's just like I'll just do whatever the person's asking me to do that's not happening well yeah cuz it's legislated it's not I I gave you the example of yeah you know I I'm curious about this
03:14:11
Brian Atlascan you pull it up R does Colorado have any abortion law whatsoever can you pull that up for me yeah Blake can you uh find US Canada as well um I'm pretty
03:14:23
Miss Kenziesure Washington too no abortion law no abortion law and um they actually had a lower abortion rate um up until I want to say 2023 so
03:14:34
Brian Atlasit says here Colorado at least from the AI one of the most abortion friendly states in the United States it's uh legal in Colorado all stages of pregnancy constitutional protection 2022
03:14:46
Andrew WilsonColorado voters approved prop 79 enshrined the right to abortion state constitution so there is legislation on abortion that's incorrect I think I mean so there's definitely legislation in Colorado what
03:14:59
Andrew Wilsonis there in Canada um I mean constit like constitutional protections yeah that would definitely be the law of the land would be theti um
03:15:12
Miss Kenziemaybe I can be more specific then in terms of legislation against abortion because we did just read so you want legislation for abortion one second we
03:15:22
Miss Kenziedid just read that the first line was abortion is legal yeah yeah so yes but it's legal because it's enshrined in the law because it's constitutionally protected right so I I would be against
03:15:35
Miss Kenzielegislative in terms of like making laws against it if I'm sorry if I wasn't specific on that okay so it's just laws against it correct okay so what if the termination of the abort or if the
03:15:48
Andrew Wilsondoctor was willing to perform the abortion in uh such a way where it terminated the fetus even at 8 months okay would you be
03:15:58
Andrew Wilsonfor a law against that no no no would that be murder yes but no punishment correct how is that morally consistent that's like the most
03:16:10
Miss Kenziemonstrous thing I've ever heard so I think this is where like a UT a utilitarian position would come into is that that um I when we look at abortion
03:16:21
Miss Kenziepost 21 weeks even in states that have um all legal protections towards abortion um it's 1% of abortions and then when we look at that 1% even
03:16:32
Miss Kenziefurther it's prior to 28 weeks so post 28 weeks I think a lot of pro-lifers just kind of make like up these ideas that people want to come in and just have lethal terminations for no reason
03:16:43
Miss Kenziethis is all descriptive you're just talking yeah if I can finish yeah but this is descriptive I'm asking about prescriptive right so I'm I'm getting there so um what I'm saying is that this
03:16:56
Miss Kenzieis a non-existent uh at worst and rare event at best and in terms of the deaths of fetuses within this criteria that is
03:17:08
Miss Kenziegoing to be less than the deaths of pregnant people who are denied abortions who are medically necessary and so which one would I rather have I would rather have more people live which would be the
03:17:19
Andrew Wilsonpregnant people okay so um I'm still really confused here but maybe you can give me some clar some clarity you are aware
03:17:29
Andrew Wilsonthat in uh Russia abortion was also legal under first wave feminism going into communism right what time period uh
03:17:40
Andrew Wilsonwould you like the exact dates yeah yeah so I think that this was um roughly hang on let me pull pull it up I got it in my notes here
03:17:53
Andrew Wilson[Music] um USSR was the first country to make abortion fully legal up to term and paid for in state hospitals within 10 years of implementing that policy they had three abortions for every one live birth
03:18:05
Andrew Wilsonand they had to Outlaw abortion again again what time frame um I'm trying to pull the dates up here sure yeah hang on
03:18:24
Miss KenzieI didn't write the date down for that I'm I'm just wondering essentially against like the conditions looks like around uh 1920 1920 yeah later
03:18:35
Andrew Wilsonrestricted the band in 36 because of this problem so it was 1920 through 36 right around roughly the same exact time
03:18:44
Andrew Wilsonas what other amendment was 1920 you know um Amendment the United States 1920 the the right to vote yeah yeah so sorry are you saying that's correlated some no
03:18:54
Andrew Wilsonno no I just think it's interesting that the right to vote and feminism because in the 20s it was roaring and same thing in in Russia but they had three abortions for every one life birth they
03:19:04
Miss Kenziehad outlawed literally had outlawed they didn't re that was that was a a time where Russia was a pretty warn torn country wasn't it because Stalin was overthrowing the uh Monarch regime in
03:19:16
Andrew Wilsonthe buik yeah they need they definitely needed to have human beings they they knew that but that was the problem is is that if you have three to one in the Live Verse you can't sustain the nation so when they reintroduced it in 56 it
03:19:29
Andrew Wilsonlooks like that's the time period that they they Rel legalized it was in 56 had significant regulations on it to prevent that from happening so hang on so I'm just saying the reason I bring this up okay is because you claim well
03:19:40
Andrew Wilsondescriptively this isn't happening now okay but descriptively it was happening when it was allowed without laws against it so I have actual
03:19:50
Miss Kenzieevidence so again like I obviously this can be conditional outcomes uh depending on certain things do you think that the sooner you have an abortion the
03:20:00
Andrew Wilsonbetter I mean I don't see how um like from my specific worldview from the secular worldview cuz I always think abortion is wrong oh okay um so that
03:20:13
Miss Kenziethat that would be one of my argumentations is that if you were having um essentially a society to where medical access wasn't available um or it was at a high cost then this could delay
03:20:25
Miss Kenzieuh obviously your opportunity to get an abortion which may cause it in later St stages of pregnancy yeah that's rare what do you mean that in later stages of pregnancy you're going to have abortions
03:20:36
Miss Kenzieright isn't that what you said no um I it is rare because access is available so I'm saying if it's happening later in pregnancy it's most likely because there are times where access is not not
03:20:47
Andrew Wilsonavailable yeah okay so from but from your view you're you're just saying like cuz you don't see a distinction right you just think life begins in some arbitrary Point like 24 weeks or
03:20:58
Andrew Wilsonsomething tied in with Consciousness or something silly right something silly um well it is silly because you can't define consciousness it's not a definable thing I mean do you think you have a subjective experience sure but
03:21:10
Miss Kenziethat's not def sub exp not defining Consciousness what is that subjective experience made of I don't I have no idea you what's it made of I think it's made of a lot of different components of
03:21:20
Andrew Wilsonthings but the fact that you recognize that it exists doesn't Define what it is and what what do you mean what what kind of definition do you want well tell me what Consciousness is the ability to
03:21:30
Miss Kenziehave experiences yeah so um are you saying that you have no experiences when you're unconscious um well I think there's other aspects of experience that not
03:21:42
Miss Kenziejust only go in so you are having experiences even when you're unconscious uh well I don't think Consciousness and being conscious are necessarily the same
03:21:51
Miss Kenziething they're not uh no like I I wouldn't say that um like someone who is sleeping doesn't
03:22:02
Andrew Wilsonhave Consciousness even though that you don't believe that um when you're sleeping you're completely unconscious I'm sorry what you said earlier you don't believe when you're sleeping you're completely
03:22:15
Miss Kenzieunconscious when we're we're talking about grape you're completely unconscious yeah you said you didn't believe that you're completely unconscious when you sleep you are unconscious that that was my main tenant is that you're having sex
03:22:27
Andrew Wilsonwith someone who's unconscious okay so then if you're not unconscious if you are unconscious when you're sleep are you experiencing things when you sleep yes you can still experience stimula and
03:22:37
Miss Kenziehow could you be unconscious because of other qualia uh qualia sensation emotions I mean your ability to dream if Consciousness then is defined as one who
03:22:49
Andrew Wilsonhas hang on if Consciousness is is expressed as one who has experiences iang on I'm sorry can we can we get back no we can't I I just want to make we pivoted from no we really didn't pivot
03:23:01
Miss Kenzieyou pivoted it here no no you said arbitrarily at 24 weeks that's a different subject than what we were talking about yeah but I just table that but I want to only take one second okay
03:23:11
Andrew Wilsonfine Consciousness one who has experiences is conscious if you're having experience when you're unconscious then you can't
03:23:21
Miss Kenziebe UNC then you must have Consciousness even when you're unconscious right um yes there there are aspects that you can have Consciousness when you are unconscious I don't so are you
03:23:33
Miss Kenzieactually unconscious yes cuz I think unconscious um and Consciousness are different what's different I have no consciousness or I do what what is what is being conscious to you I don't well it's not a
03:23:45
Miss Kenziething again that that's definable really I'm just in terms of so you when your wife is sleeping that's as good as she's awake what do you mean in terms of
03:23:57
Andrew Wilsonconscious and unconscious yeah I think that she still has Consciousness when she's sleeping yes even though she's unconscious right well she's not no she's not I don't think she's unconscious I think she's
03:24:09
Andrew Wilsonknocked out what's the difference well this is the thing about Consciousness like I said it's not definable I think therefore I am is the we can come up with but we agree on what that when
03:24:21
Miss Kenzieyou're sleeping you're still have Consciousness I agree with that even though you're not from your world yeah from my world view that makes sense from your world view that makes no sense why does that make sense from your world view because you're the one who's making
03:24:32
Andrew Wilsonthe determination as to when life begins it's 24 weeks because of Consciousness what do we mean by life Consciousness what do you mean by life doesn't I'm doing an internal critique then you can
03:24:43
Miss Kenziedo your internal CRI it does because we do like obviously there's different um new there's different terms when we talk about like the mode of life like I'm sure you would recognize that
03:24:54
Miss Kenziecellular Division and metabolic life is very different than someone having a subjective experience I agree it's human life you agree it's human life yes great there's no disagreement there what what
03:25:06
Miss KenzieI'm saying that's before 24 weeks but it is different than someone having a conscious experience or a subjective experience it's to you it's why is that not different for because you for you
03:25:16
Andrew Wilsonthat's the thing you value not the life itself well yeah without a subjective experience there's no Society right right but the problem is is that you can't demonstrate there's no subjective
03:25:26
Andrew Wilsonexperience before 24 weeks so that's that's that's one and two even if you could say there's no subjective experience before 24 weeks Consciousness
03:25:37
Andrew Wilsonitself is the one thing that human beings really don't understand very well okay we just really don't understand it at all so it's not easy to Define we don't know why we have it it makes no
03:25:48
Andrew Wilsonreal sense right it's a thing not well understood so it the reason I point out that it's arbitrary is because it's kind of impossible to prove that there's no subjective experience before 24 weeks in a fetus it's just like impossible to
03:26:01
Miss Kenzieprove that um I mean I agree I guess I guess it's in kind of the I classify it as like the same um as like puberty like obviously there are certain metrics that
03:26:13
Miss Kenzieyou hit when you have reached puberty but when does someone like go through puberty or experience puberty or how long does puberty take is going to be different so sure metric yeah I I don't disagree yeah so that was my whole point
03:26:25
Miss Kenzieis like you came up with a 24- we arbitrary metric um I think in some instance like there there are going to be some instances where yes things are arbitrary it's just you just have to
03:26:37
Andrew Wilsondraw a line somewhere okay so so we'll we'll table that we know it's arbitrary I'm glad that we got the semantics taken care of so that we understand no I'm sorry I and then it didn't seem like we agreed and then moving forward well we kind of
03:26:48
Andrew Wilsondo but moving forward from there right I would still like to know why it is on the legislation end MH uh and then we can just move the topic because there's a bunch of them I want to get to when we only have so much time but I just want
03:27:00
Andrew Wilsonto know when it comes when it comes to legislation they did not legislate there and it did actually descriptively lead to an increase in the number of abortions that happened there was no regulation on it and it was a 3 to1
03:27:12
Andrew Wilsonagainst life burst that's obviously very unhealthy for everybody that's not good right so I have the descriptive claim that that already happened when there was no legislation um what what would be your
03:27:23
Miss Kenziedemonstration here like you think established like a causal that it well without abortions there wouldn't have been abortions yeah that's pretty causal well in terms of like what is the reason
03:27:36
Miss Kenziethat people are terminating pregnant so so let let me put it who cares why they're determined they're I think that really um is a huge assessment that we have to make in terms
03:27:46
Miss Kenzieof uh if we want abortion to reduce so if you and I are on the same goal that we want to reduce abortions then having legislation against abortion red does
03:27:55
Miss Kenziethat uh no I I would just say it just uh limits access to Safe abortions if we're going to actually pragmatically reduce abortion I would say that we would want to prevent unwanted pregnancy which
03:28:07
Miss Kenziewould be through comprehensive sex health education which would be through long acting reversible contraceptives um so that would be one way to prevent it if if we're going to when people get pregnant give them more
03:28:19
Miss Kenzieoptions to where they want to or feel like they have the capability to take care of another child that would be thing like Access to Health Care access
03:28:29
Miss Kenzieto uh paid parental leave access to subsidized daycare those things would actually meaningful meaningfully reduce abortion um legation huh so with
03:28:40
Andrew Wilsonlegislation it it doesn't it does and You by you actually conceded to this in the first statement you made so here's what you said you said it limits your access to Safe abortions do you do you
03:28:53
Miss Kenziethink that if abortions are unsafe more or less people will have them um if abortions are unsafe more or less people will have them um more or less women will have them if they're
03:29:06
Miss Kenzieunsafe I think I I I don't it it's hard to gauge if it would be more or less cuz I think someone
03:29:17
Miss Kenziehas an abortion I I would say less women would have an abortion less yeah so then necessarily legislating against abortions equals less
03:29:29
Miss Kenzieabortions um it just equals less abortions in in some aspects yes and in others no no in all aspects
03:29:39
Andrew Wilsonyes because if there's one less abortion than there was yesterday and there would ordinarily have been one more abortion today if that um would not have happened
03:29:49
Miss Kenziehad you not legislated yesterday then there is less abortion okay correct sure yeah so then legislating does it would it would really depend cuz I think like obviously in Texas um there has been
03:30:02
Miss Kenzierestrictions on abortion and we just see people flee to other states where abortion is legal and then also in Texas as well I would argue that like with the heartbeat bill when it was 6 weeks
03:30:13
Miss Kenziebecause people had such a short window to decide if they could get would want an abortion or have a child that they aired on the side of caution and had an abortion yeah so the legislation in fact increased abortions because if people
03:30:25
Andrew Wilsonwould have had more time but what if there was no would have decided to to actually carry the child to term well here's my reputation to both those arguments the first is all that that
03:30:37
Andrew Wilsonwould do is signify to me that you put a legislation at conception uh and don't give people an opportunity you're not pregnant at conception yeah you can still make the legislation
03:30:48
Andrew Wilsonat conception so if so so then would iuds be illegal well no just the conception of the pregnancy whatever that is right whatever you want is different from okay fine whatever the
03:30:59
Andrew Wilsonsemantic distinction is I'm just saying it's not a semantic distinction okay were you confused about what I said yes okay when does a woman get pregnant implantation okay so whenever that is
03:31:11
Andrew Wilsonwhenever a woman gets pregnant maybe I misspoke whenever a woman gets pregnant okay you could just legislate right then and there that's when life begins you're not allowed to have an abortion so you can legislate against abortion effectively before the six we marker you
03:31:23
Andrew Wilsoncan just say nope not allowed period okay right so that would uh significantly limit those because you say people are just panicking because they have a narrower window I'm saying take the window out and then they won't
03:31:34
Andrew WilsonPanic you just can't do it so then you say well they flee to other states where abortion is legal mhm okay fair enough so then if you made abortion illegal in those States abortion would drastically
03:31:44
Andrew Wilsonreduce as well necessarily sure yeah so in both cases it seems like we can greatly reduce abortion regardless of making it criminal in fact it's going to
03:31:56
Miss Kenziereduce I I would say that having a more pragmatic approach uh would be number one more effective because we would see better outcomes um and again you you just
03:32:07
Miss Kenziereally lose me on uh regulating a woman's autonomy I think if we're going to give anyone the choice to determine uh family planning to determine uh
03:32:18
Andrew Wilsonhealth risks to determine um mental health then than it would be the person who's who's carrying the pregnancy I literally made the argument earlier that you care about the woman's autonomy and
03:32:28
Miss Kenzieyou said no the doctor also he has the authority and say that wait wait that that was a that was a different delineation we're talking about in terms of the procedure that you're having which is an abortion there's no different there's different abortion
03:32:41
Miss Kenzieprocedures so I thought that's what we were talking about because obviously if we're if you're in the third termination or I'm sorry in the third trimester there are different methods that you can um enact in order to terminate the
03:32:52
Miss Kenziepregnancy so when it came to that method yes obviously the doctor can have the authority on that but when it came to the decision yes that that is the patient yeah why shouldn't why shouldn't
03:33:04
Andrew Wilsonwe be allowed to limit women's autonomy just like we limit men's autonomy by sending them off to war um I just don't see the justification for it I don't see the justification for sending men off to war but it is necessary but it is
03:33:15
Andrew Wilsonnecessary uh I I disagree I don't think it's necessary you don't no okay got it so then if your nation was invaded and Men didn't want to fight your nation gets
03:33:24
Andrew Wilsontaken over that's that right yeah so basically there's no Duty for men to in any way fight in a compelled way I mean having a duty is
03:33:35
Miss Kenziedifferent than than being forced to um to do something yes absolutely okay I I would think if if this is Central to your society and and um then yeah people
03:33:46
Miss Kenziewould step up and want to do it if they don't cuz they're scared okay yeah they're scared I mean they're scared right but I mean you do
03:33:57
Miss Kenzierealize that many many many nations they have compelled service I think again like when we when we go back to this idea of like engaging in War I think we
03:34:06
Andrew Wilsonneed to have a critique on society in general um well we don't even need to do that I'll just grant for you I think we do well I'm granting it for you you I'm just going to grant for you okay you're
03:34:18
Andrew Wilsonright there should be no compelled service that still doesn't actually answer though why autonomy is the thing in which we should we should not limit autonomy for people why not I think there can be instances where we limit
03:34:29
Andrew Wilsonautonomy um but I just don't see a reason for for abortion well I think you do you've already expressed multiple times that there would how is it ethical to force
03:34:39
Miss Kenziesomeone to sustain pregnancy after 6 months yeah so what if it's going to kill the baby okay I don't think that they have
03:34:49
Miss Kenziean obligation to give their uh for them to have their body used as life support So then at 9 months they can kill their
03:34:58
Miss Kenziebaby again we would just terminate the connection so they their labor would just be induced and you do the purpose of abortion is centered around pregnancy
03:35:10
Miss Kenzieso if you want pregnancy to end there's a lot of different ways we can do that and obviously there's no necessity in killing the fetus once
03:35:21
Andrew Wilsonyou're what do you mean like for instance you you claim that the mom has bodily autonomy right and that shouldn't be violated MH and the bodily autonomy
03:35:31
Andrew Wilsonis that the baby needs to use her body right okay so what happens if the baby's born the mom doesn't want to feed the baby well um babies are fed with bre
03:35:42
Miss Kenziemilk right sure sure so I think uh we we need to decide what are individual responsibilities and more societal responsibilities it's about autonomy I thought it I I haven't even finished so
03:35:54
Miss Kenziewhen we talk about uh societal responsibilities obviously if a parent um doesn't want to take care of their child then they would become Award of the state and then the state would take on those responsibilities of caring for
03:36:06
Andrew Wilsonthe child I don't understand why can't the mom just choose to not feed the baby until the baby expires what do you mean is she taking on the parental role yeah
03:36:17
Andrew Wilsonwell she had the baby okay she had it okay let's say she had it at her prom she was like she had it at her prom yeah she was outside she had a a prom night dumpster baby as Family Guy would would
03:36:28
Andrew Wilsonreference it terrible okay she had a prom night dumpster baby what and so anyway she has the baby okay this is important it's actually an important distinction so anyway she has the baby and the dumpster is an important distin
03:36:40
Andrew Wilsonshe doesn't want to feed it she just doesn't want to because it's her body and it's her autonomy so she just let to
03:36:46
Miss Kenziedie so um if we are once the baby is born yeah um as a society uh obviously
03:36:57
Miss Kenziethe care for the child needs to be determined yeah so at that point um the mother can either claim the parental responsibility and which comes with all the obligations of obviously feeding the
03:37:08
Miss Kenziechild or um if they don't claim it then obviously that baby would be a war of the state so now the mother's is in possession of a baby that's not hers so
03:37:19
Miss KenzieI think in order to avoid kidnapping charges are harms towards Award of the state she has she she needs to turn it over to the state so she has a duty to turn the baby over to the state without
03:37:30
Miss Kenziecorrect because she's in possession of a ward of the state so it's essentially uh almost a kidnapping charge okay so I want to make sure I get this right so the mother if she says this baby is mine
03:37:43
Miss Kenziethen she has the obligation to breastfeed it right um I mean I I wouldn't I would say uh breastfeeding would be a reasonable obligation but why why is there not
03:37:55
Miss Kenzieformula well because formula is extremely unhealthy for babies well I mean formula is what has um like saved the lives of of babies yes
03:38:07
Andrew Wilsonwhen there's no you know their mom's breast milk around sure right a lot of women don't have the capacity to breastfeed no most of them have the capacity to breastfeed they do a lot of women struggle with a lot yes you can even make that claim cuz I would say a
03:38:19
Miss Kenzielot is like 1% of women would be a lot do do you think that if a mother chooses not to breastfeed that she's harming her child well no what well yeah but what I'm looking at is do you think that's to
03:38:30
Andrew Wilsonthe degree of neglect um I'm not saying I'm not saying that it's neglectful there could be reasons for it including ignorance there could be just like ignorance like should
03:38:40
Andrew Wilsonshe she retain uh custody even if she doesn't under most cases probably yes because she's feeding the baby through but I think that the it I think that there should be a state mandatory propaganda campaign that mother should
03:38:52
Andrew Wilsonbreastfeed their children yes should she receive legal consequences if she chooses not to if she had the capacity to do so and decided to give the kid poison instead yeah probably well I'm
03:39:03
Miss Kenzienot not so when you say poison you mean formula yeah okay and comparon the breast milk it's poison okay so when like you get most of your immune system from your mother's breast mil sure sure um
03:39:15
Miss Kenziewhen when the child is born you acknowledge that breast smoke has not come in uh no no okay so breast smoke hasn't
03:39:27
Miss Kenzienecessarily come in once the child is born um and if you don't most of the time breast milk has been there before the child's born uh no yeah there's uh I believe it's called colostrum which is not the same as breast milk it's more
03:39:41
Miss Kenzielike a clear liquid how do you think babies used to eat well one second because this is the process that I had to go through when I gave birth like I breastfed for8 months and it took um I
03:39:52
Miss Kenziethink at least 36 hours before my breast milk came in after birth and so when you have that Cho when parents make that decision you mean
03:40:00
SPEAKER_02after the colostrum correct yeah Lord so how do how do babies eat what one second so if if you don't uh
03:40:12
Miss Kenzieessentially start engaging in nursing uhhuh then then you don't know your capacity for lactation so I'm asking if once birth happens and the doctor's like are you going to breastfeed or wish
03:40:24
Miss Kenzieshould get formula yeah is there some kind of legal obligation for you that the mother tries to breastfeed I I don't understand what are you asking me after birth yeah do you
03:40:35
Miss Kenziethink women should be forced to attempt to nurse I think that there should be nursing as soon as it's possible to nurse well that's that's a yes or a no do you think women should be forced to nurse post
03:40:46
Miss Kenziemaybe not okay so so then it would need to be within the confines of Reason well how how would you ever then like say that someone can have legal consequence for not nursing after
03:40:58
Andrew Wilsonbirth okay so I see what you're saying now let me get this right there is a thing a small Gap or a small possible window where you can't breastfeed after
03:41:09
Miss Kenziebaby born right you can't breastfeed can't you you can nurse but it's not um fully breast
03:41:19
Miss Kenziemilk yeah okay so you can breastfeed you can nurse but again it's not fully breast milk it's not the Complete Nutrition bab getting is the baby eating
03:41:31
Miss Kenzieum not in the complete way that breast milk does because that that is something that that is something that you do monitor with your doctor because they want to make sure okay so I see we're
03:41:42
Andrew Wilsonspeaking past each other so let's back up when you put your nipple in the baby's mouth is the baby getting food it
03:41:50
Miss Kenziedepends most of the time um in adequate amount that's debatable but some and how early do they usually start getting an adequate amount within it depends um
03:42:02
Miss Kenzieagain it's I had my son quite a while ago um I want to say mine came in around 36 weeks or I'm sorry 36 hours but so three days um was a day and a half day and a half yeah but again I I think
03:42:14
Miss Kenzieother it's just you know when what when does puberty occur it just depends so hang on so let's back up so milk your full breast milk comes in within a
03:42:26
Andrew Wilsonday um yeah could be a couple days could be a day sure I was just reading the reason I said three days is because it said it said 3:00 to 5 when I was looking up on the colostrum right but it's it can be as early as 12 hours maybe yeah and I um I think even some of
03:42:39
Miss Kenziemy friends have had breast smoke before birth yeah I don't I don't see any problem with feeding the baby that yeah that seems fine so I'm just but if you don't um begin
03:42:48
Miss Kenzienursing MH then you would essentially inhibit that process to where you you just never produce bre milk so you
03:42:58
Miss Kenzieshould start doing that then so I'm asking you should mothers be forced to nurse postbirth even though we don't know their capacity to breastfeed yes so
03:43:10
Andrew Wilsonyou think women should be forced to breast all right the problem with that is what you have accepted responsibility for the baby right by your worldview yes
03:43:22
Miss Kenziebut obvious you have an obligation to feed the baby so then yeah and obviously you there are other means which you can feed the baby yeah poisonous means they are still other means so feed do you
03:43:34
Andrew Wilsonthink that feeding kids poison is a good idea I think kids that are fed is best absolutely so you just like you would you give the baby like straight [ __ ]
03:43:44
Miss Kenziechocolate because it's of course not why because um breast milk and formula require are essentially the only liquids at that point where an infant can get their full nutritional profile you're
03:43:57
Andrew Wilsonnot getting your full nutritional profile though I mean you you are otherwise you would die not though you're not no you you wouldn't necessarily mean you die but it it would
03:44:07
Miss Kenzieinhibit the develop your brain it would inhibit the devop bra I'm not interested in having a discussion between formula and and breast which one do you think is better for the baby I think fed is best
03:44:19
Andrew Wilsonbut um I opted for that's not what I asked what a cop out which one is better for the baby I opted to breastfeed why CU it was cheaper and you thought it was better
03:44:31
Andrew Wilsonfor the baby right yes yeah so then the thing is is like why couldn't I compel you to do that or shouldn't I be able to I think it should be like obviously the person's will I think will should be but
03:44:42
Andrew Wilsonnow you're in charge of somebody else like if I I fed my kid chocolate every single day as his only source of nutrition wouldn't you Advocate that the state came in and took that kid from
03:44:53
Miss Kenzieme um if you fed them chocolate every day no that's all I fed them is chocolate mhm um I mean if if they were starving yeah
03:45:05
Miss Kenzieyeah so depriving I mean I guess I guess at what degree are we deciding that parents have their CH or parents have their children taken away based on their diet we don't always know what's optim but in this in this case we do actually know
03:45:18
Miss Kenzieit's optimal wouldn't that be arbitrary in in the one case sure but in this case no we actually do know what's optimal here so I I think if we're talking about
03:45:28
Miss Kenzielike what we would want to happen um I I agree with you that like breast milk is great and it's the optimal choice I don't think someone should be forced to do why not seems
03:45:40
Andrew Wilsonlike good idea to force them to if you're going to take possession of your child I don't see any problem with them telling you that hey because it's your body so I mean so I think obviously then the other
03:45:52
Miss Kenziealternative would you have an issue if they pump no and then and then breast but that's the same thing breast mold okay yeah that's the most optimal thing to give them right I I think again this would just relate down to autonomy
03:46:05
Miss Kenziebecause obviously everyone's conditions are different yeah but in this case you have a dependent I think more women would breastfeed if we had more social safety nets when it comes to women giving birth yeah but I also think they
03:46:17
Miss Kenziewould breastfeed if they say you need to breastfeed this child you must I think it's just an an unreasonable so what what if your child think it's the most reasonable what if your child needed
03:46:28
Miss Kenzieblood would you be obligated would would do you want legal laws that parents are forced to give them their blood yeah and the problem with this in society would be what what about kidney no so where
03:46:42
Andrew Wilsonwhere are you draw why are you drawing the line there I draw it the same place that you would on the idea that if it's going to kill you a kid getting rid of your kidney wouldn't kill you oh yeah it's going to lead to your demise much faster it wouldn't kill you though yes
03:46:54
Andrew Wilsonit would that's killing you it's not you can survive with one kidney for yes for less time than you can survive with do kill that's killing you I mean you could say the same thing about blood okay so just to make sure that this is correct
03:47:07
Andrew Wilsonif I said I'm going to take off 10 years of your life I'm not killing you no you're not directly killing me oh you are limiting my life expectancy sure so if I took your life down to tomorrow I'm
03:47:17
Miss Kenzienot killing you um if you took my life down to tomorrow what are you doing or 10 minutes that's not killing you if I
03:47:29
Miss Kenziecould just like again again so if we're talking about like direct cause obviously things have chain link reactions so are you just saying like you do anything you're responsible for any Link in the chain or are we talking
03:47:42
Andrew Wilsonabout what I'm saying that your duties to your children need comport with reason and so I think that you can make at least a strong enough case if there's an alternative food source I don't think hang on I think that you can make a