1v1 DEBATE: Andrew Wilson vs. Marxist Anti-Trump Feminist | Whatever Debates #11
Date: 2025-03-16
Duration: 7h 34m
Brian AtlasIdentified Speakers
SPEAKER_01Andrew Wilson(guest)
SPEAKER_04Brian Atlas(host)
SPEAKER_05Miss Kenzie(guest)
Key Moments
00:02:09
IntroBrian introduces debate: Andrew Wilson vs Miss Kenzie on feminism
00:35:40
Key MomentAndrew's slavery hypothetical: if all men decided to enslave women, women could not resist
02:07:00
ControversyAndrew admits waking wife with sex. Kenzie classifies as rape.
03:17:00
Key MomentAndrew cites USSR: fully legal abortion led to 3 abortions per 1 live birth
04:58:20
Key MomentAndrew presses Kenzie on body count. She repeatedly refuses. 'If it doesn't matter why won't you tell?'
06:31:40
Key MomentKenzie's TikTok: Whatever deliberately books unprepared women against prepared conservatives to humiliate them
Topics Discussed
00:07:00
Feminism vs Marxism
Andrew: first-wave feminism fed women into capitalism, contradicting Marxism. Kenzie distinguishes liberal from Marxist feminism.
00:35:00
Force Doctrine
Andrew: men's biological physical superiority = monopoly on force. Slavery hypothetical.
02:07:00
Sexual Consent
Andrew admits waking wife with sex. Kenzie classifies as rape under FRIES model. Both agree holding down = rape.
03:05:00
Abortion
Kenzie: no restrictions all 9 months. Andrew cites USSR 3:1 abortion ratio. Semantic bait-and-switch debate.
04:05:00
Purity Culture and Virginity
Andrew: virgins report highest marital satisfaction. Kenzie refuses to disclose body count.
06:26:40
Whatever Podcast Misogyny TikTok
Brian plays Kenzie's TikTok calling Whatever a misogynistic abuse space. Brian refutes: 15% OF guests, women reach out.
07:17:30
Closing Statements
Andrew: proprietary definitions. Kenzie: precise terminology, restorative justice.
Transcript
Page 2 of 9
00:57:27
Miss Kenziehis face right off I disagree why yeah but why though I again I would say the life has more more value than the TV okay let's see if you actually believe
00:57:37
Andrew Wilsonthat okay this would necessarily entail that his life had more value than any of your property what do you mean well I mean you're not going to put a number on his
00:57:48
Miss Kenzielife right his life's worth more than all the money in the world isn't it um it's a
00:57:57
Andrew Wilsonman woman oh then yes yeah fair enough so this chick who wants to steal my TV why can't she steal my house how would you steal someone's house you squat
00:58:10
Andrew Wilsonsquatters mhm yeah and now you've stolen my house and you've put me and my family on the street can I blow you away
00:58:19
Miss Kenziethen um can you or should ought you morally be able to then uh I I would say that housing because obviously it affects the um outcomes of your family's well-being or
00:58:32
Andrew Wilsontheir own Survival would be would be just your position here is inconsistent you just said that property property itself it's not it's not the property itself if you had another house to go to
00:58:41
Andrew Wilsongo to that house so so wait so if I had two properties they could chase me out of one of them cuz I had someplace else to go I don't think you should kill them but I can't kill them if they're chasing
00:58:53
Andrew Wilsonme out of the one place I have to go well I I I would say um if that's is that the only solution I I mean or you could call law enforcement and then they potentially kill them trying to arrest them or
00:59:05
Andrew Wilsonwhatever I'm just asking you if that's is that the only solution well I mean right now I think that the well just in your hypothetical I mean oh and within the the confines the hypothetical no you can have different solutions right um
00:59:18
Miss Kenziethen then obviously I would opt for different solutions I mean why would they want your house uh who knows they squat in people's houses don't have houses no I think a lot of I think a lot
00:59:29
Andrew Wilsonof times people do have access to housing they don't want to work and they squat inside of people's houses because it's free um again I I just think that's
00:59:39
Miss Kenzielike a capitalist assessment of human behavior um as somehow Being Human Nature yeah but this doesn't really answer my question about why it is that
00:59:50
Andrew WilsonI can't kill them for taking my TV it's mine I agree yeah why can't so if you take my [ __ ] I kill because it's taking away from my kids right if you take away
01:00:03
Andrew Wilsonwell if you take my my TV I have to replace it right sure that's going to cost me money sure that necessarily takes food and resource away from my children right um yeah sure yeah so then
01:00:14
Andrew Wilsonnecessarily what you're actually doing when you steal my TV is you're I think it would just be to depending on the degree yeah you're well well you're taking things from my children right and so the thing is is my potentially sure
01:00:27
Andrew Wilsonnot potentially if I have to replace the TV and I have to replace the TV with my money that's goings instead of you know buying beer that week you buy the
01:00:37
Andrew WilsonTV okay so so um let's say your budget is set in such a way where you only have X amount of money per week like most American families sure yeah so then then you're
01:00:49
Miss Kenziestill taking money away from my kids right if I mean if you decide to replace the TV I I don't know I if if I couldn't if it were between food for my child and a TV I would probably do food for my child
01:01:00
Andrew Wilsonyeah sure but the the thing is is now you have to allocate funds away from your children so any dollar you take any dollar you take from me regardless of what I normally would have spend it on is taking money away from my kids
01:01:12
Andrew Wilsonnecessarily possibly sure yeah so the thing is is like if you take from my kids I kill you problem is it seems reasonable to me it's within the confines of Reason logically Stacks up I
01:01:24
Andrew WilsonI don't think so I think that would just be depending on degree why does it depend on the degree if you don't steal [ __ ] you don't get shot it's simple like what's the degree
01:01:35
Miss KenzieI mean what what if uh what if they were stealing food would would that be an issue for you yeah yeah yeah I think a person has a right to defend their
01:01:46
Miss Kenziefood um I mean would you find it more Justified if someone is like would you steal food to feed your children possibly but do I think a person not justified in doing something about
01:01:59
Andrew Wilsonthat I think they are I'm not saying they're not justified in doing something about that I'm saying like obviously the reaction
01:02:08
Andrew Wilsonto can I see myself doing a bad thing on behalf of my children yeah sure but that doesn't mean that I within the confines of Reason don't understand that a person can't do something about that it's like
01:02:20
Miss Kenzieyou can't say I'm not saying that you know you you can do nothing I think you could try and take the TV back back you know punch them in the face well that's dangerous sure they could punch you back yeah so it's shooting them they could
01:02:31
Andrew Wilsonshoot at you back usually if you shoot at somebody I don't know how say my Situation's dangerous but yours isn't if somebody's running with your TV and you're shooting at them I don't think they're going to be shooting back
01:02:43
Andrew Wilsonthey're very skilled they're going to hold the TV like this and grab I mean they're thin yeah you can use one arm and you know you don't think that's like moderately deranged I don't think it's moderately deranged you don't think so you don't think the TVs require two
01:02:56
Andrew Wilsonhands for men to carry them um no I mean I guess it depends how big the TV is MHM like your living room TV it's going to you're going to take I mean my living room TV is big but like my bedroom T also by the way it's just
01:03:08
Andrew Wilsonless dangerous in general if you if you fire the first shot um chances are pretty good that that's the end of the confrontation I mean if you hit them yeah no you don't even have to hit them just fire the shot even oh gotcha yeah
01:03:21
Miss Kenzieeven that usually is enough to in the confrontation so okay anyway I guess we've stayed on Force Doctrine for a while yes did you want to cross-examine me on
01:03:30
Miss Kenziethis um I I guess it I I am curious in terms of if you see so you don't make this as a moral claim it's just kind of
01:03:40
Miss Kenziea fact descriptive descriptive claim so do you think men should do these things like which things um that they should use Force as
01:03:50
Andrew Wilsonan authority against women well sometimes in some cases sure like if a woman's committing a crime something like that I think men are totally justified in using Force I think if a woman attacks a man he's totally
01:04:02
Andrew Wilsonjustified in using Force I'm talking as like a societal yeah but these are societal prescriptions if a if a woman attacks a man yeah he's perfectly it's perfectly acceptable for him to sure but there are
01:04:14
Miss Kenzieinstances where you say he you know like if um like would you condone wife beating well no but I wouldn't condone husband beating so sure but you're saying that
01:04:25
Andrew Wilsonyou know men's Authority is through Force this is how why we should have patriarchy enforcement not so that's the requisite enforcement is yeah it is force yes yeah
01:04:37
Miss Kenziebut that doesn't mean author is through remember my claim is that might makes not that it makes right okay but that it so so it's not a moral a no it's not it's just a descriptive truth so do you
01:04:47
Andrew Wilsonthink that men should work to cooperate with women in society um no I think women should cooperate with men in society because
01:04:58
Andrew Wilsonthey depend on mean yeah I'll explain I think that women depend on men for the use of forc Doctrine for their own protection so I think I mean I think under patriarchy sure no I think under
01:05:10
Miss Kenziematriarchy they still depend on men for Force um well you said protection right yeah Force yeah what are you protecting them
01:05:20
Miss Kenziefrom uh well you could be protecting them from other men generally right so um I think under patriarchy male per uh male violence is pervasive under
01:05:31
Andrew Wilsonmatriarchy male violence is still pervasive why why is having a female leader going to make male Prov male violence no longer pervasive that's bizarre um like there's a difference
01:05:44
Miss Kenziebetween saying I have a society that's just filled 100% with women that would be a claim but you're not saying that you're sorry about a matriarchy versus a patriarchy right but I think when it comes to patriarchy OB obviously we're talking about male Supremacy and
01:05:57
Miss Kenziedomination and a form of domination is through violence yeah yeah I agree with all of that so what yeah so I obviously if that's not a tenant of matriarchy then I don't think male violence would be pervasive because it's not used as a form of authority why are there still
01:06:10
Andrew Wilsongoing to be men there yeah what's going to make them less violent well obviously because it's not used as a form of authority it's I did
01:06:19
Andrew Wilsonbut I just got tied to whereever men are and women are women will depend on men for the use of force period that's my claim regardless of where they are so it
01:06:31
Miss Kenziedoesn't matter if you have a queen like and it doesn't even matter if you put women think as the CEOs of everything are we assuming that like just Authority in general is
01:06:41
Andrew Wilsonforce uh no Authority in general isn't Force but in order to have rights or laws or governance of any kind requires Force I mean I don't disagree with that
01:06:53
Andrew Wilsonyeah so that's going to require men so women are dependent upon men for Force period so I think that under a system of law sure under a syst under any system of governance there's no system of governance in which women are not
01:07:04
Andrew Wilsondependent on men for Force none you don't think that can be replaced with technology nope how men can destroy the technology that's what force Doctrine is men may be in groups too but couldn't I
01:07:16
Andrew Wilsonsay that about women no because you're still going to have to compete with a male group so your only options here are either of this like let's say let's even say you reduce the the male population
01:07:26
Andrew Wilsondown to 5% you're just like Yay it's all women now and it's 5% men or something like this you still would have a hard time controlling them we know this because there have been War torn Nations
01:07:37
Andrew Wilsonwhere like 80% of the men have died and they're still in charge because the that Monopoly on Force it's not because women don't have access to guns they have access to guns but they're less good with them guns require physical strength technology
01:07:49
Miss Kenzierequires physical strength like tanks it requires physical strength to load one okay I mean our but when we're talking about cooperation like Co means with so I don't what's the delineation between
01:08:00
Andrew Wilsonyou saying women should cooperate with men rather than men should cooperate with women because men have the option that women don't have of utilizing Force to make you cooperate the option well then that's not
01:08:11
Andrew Wilsoncooperating yeah well it is well hang on hang on but it is it is still cooperation so the idea here is just this is it the case that men should
01:08:22
Andrew Wilsoncooperate with women I guess if they choose to well that's what cooperation is I would just say if they choose to I wouldn't say that they should I mean they make the they're going to be the ones who make the rules because they have the
01:08:37
Andrew Wilsonforce but that's not cooperation well it can be cooperation no Co means with so so it is it's doing it together are you saying that if somebody's in a position of authority
01:08:49
Miss Kenzienecessarily that's not a cooperation like do you not cooperate with your children um I mean I I do cooperate with my children but that's arenth not an
01:09:00
Miss Kenzieauthority you're not an authority an authority in what sense that you're in charge in charge of certain things sure you're in charge of everything what do you mean I'm in charge of everything I don't I don't tell them like what can little Johnny tell you he's not going to
01:09:13
Andrew Wilsonthe doctor today Mom can he tell you he's not going to school he's sick can he tell you he's not going to school again if he's sick that's a possibility okay but or you know I don't want to go to school's
01:09:24
Andrew Wilsonlying he's like I'm sick you think he's lying is Johnny going to school most likely yeah so but that's not Cooperative that's me using go and gets in the car and he's quiet when you take
01:09:35
Miss Kenziehim to school and you drop him off that is cooperation I I see what you mean in that sense maybe there's a word a better word than I'm trying to think of where it's more working together and
01:09:47
Miss Kenzienegotiating where there is no necessary Authority like a partnership yeah but why should men have a partnership when they have the Monopoly on Force I don't see why they need to have a partnership with
01:09:58
Andrew Wilsonwomen why why would you want to subjugate women it's not subjugation anymore than it is with your children so I think it's a privileged position that they get because they have the use of force if they can be drafted and women
01:10:10
Miss Kenziecan't they get extra rights what you don't get well again I I don't think that um like war in and the draft can always be like a necessary condition of
01:10:21
Miss Kenziethe human existence okay give me a single Hundred Year span in which there wasn't massive war um lived in lived in peace for 600 years no the iray fought
01:10:32
Miss Kenzieplenty especially within the iroy I mean um there is a period of time but there was also a period of treaty and peace the iroy can well you talking about Theo Confederacy no the the indigenous tribe
01:10:44
Andrew Wilsonthe erise yeah I know they had a Confederacy though okay yeah so the Confederacy meaning not like in United States but under like a loose loose doctrine of law the iray Confederates my understanding is that the iray fought
01:10:56
Miss Kenzieendlessly along with most Native American tribes uh no there was a period of I I would have to look up the source a period of of 600 years of Peace no I
01:11:04
Miss Kenziedon't think war is an continuous state of uh mankind war is just fighting over uh resources yeah yeah sure yeah and
01:11:15
Miss KenzieMankind's always fighting over resources well yeah because um of either scarcity or manufactured scarcity well I mean SC
01:11:23
Andrew Wilsonscarcity can simply happen um naturally right sure I mean I mean yeah are we talking about like so if you have yeah so if you just have Naturals natural scarcity which happens all the
01:11:35
Miss Kenzietime you're going to have conflict and the enforcers in that conflict are going to be men men are going to be the Defenders of your country right but when it comes to like natural scarcity um then obviously if you're in like communal groups then that scarcity can
01:11:48
Andrew Wilsonbe overcome where there's abundance not always depends on what it is like how are you going to communally in a group do do anything about a food shortage there's no F other communities yeah if
01:11:59
Andrew Wilsonyou have access to them right and I I would say like in today's society we absolutely do yeah that's true in today's society we do have global trade things like this you can assist people with various things and War hasn't gone
01:12:11
Miss Kenzieaway at all not even a little bit well in the 20th 21st Cur man yeah because of manufactured scarcity I agree no it's not always because of manufactured scarcity uh yeah it would be dependence
01:12:23
Andrew WilsonTheory Okay so why did we fight go to war with Germany that was over scarcity the second time World War II yeah um I mean obviously the rise of fascism so what
01:12:35
Miss Kenziewas the scarcity um well within that one I would say Obviously it was uh like authoritarian regimes trying to scarcity
01:12:45
Miss Kenzieland from who from Germany and Germany was trying to uh how did that affect us I mean it didn't but obviously we wanted to stop Imperial only so it didn't have
01:12:56
Miss Kenzieanything to do with scarcity for us I mean eventually down the line it was America's concern that Germany or Russia would become a superpower and then start
01:13:05
Andrew Wilsonto to come take our land that's what wait what so there was no scarcity for us and we still got involved in the war it's not always about scarcity of resources I mean I I do think it is
01:13:17
Miss Kenziesomewhat of a basis because isn't that isn't that what regimes are about are about power or authority over your land and your people yeah people and and acquiring resources yeah what did that have to do with us we
01:13:30
Andrew Wilsondidn't have to get involved in that War I know you're you're absolutely right we didn't yeah so but we didn't get involved in it wasn't even packaged as like resource problems nothing so what
01:13:41
Miss Kenzieresources were we without I'm saying that's like the Crux of War it wasn't the Crux of that war I
01:13:49
Andrew Wilsonmean w we were intervening in order to stop uh the Imperial from Germany to how does that well here's the thing even if we had Let It Go wouldn't we have
01:14:01
Andrew Wilsonbenefited from that I mean it's hard to say yeah but I'm just saying like that had nothing to do with scarcity I don't think that the propensity for human war and violence is always about scarcity and resource I think that that's Marxist nonsense what would it be about oh it
01:14:14
Andrew Wilsoncould be about all sorts of different things it could be about um an idea of Conquest right what do you mean by Conquest I want to take over everything cuz I want to well isn't isn't land a resource yeah but that doesn't mean that
01:14:26
Andrew Wilsonit's what's the scarcity you have plenty of land you just want more anyway yes but how's that come down to scarcity cuz you're saying the motivation I don't have enough it's
01:14:37
Miss Kenzieessentially acquisition of resources and if you have more resources then you're less likely to have scarcity okay so you agree with me that
01:14:48
Miss Kenziekings are the ones who send their people to war yeah do kings have a lack of resources um I mean not with within like their own
01:14:59
Miss Kenziepersonal experience but within their Kingdom yeah isn't that what led to um the fall of Rome was essentially too much Global expansion and then uh because they didn't have the resources in order to sustain their
01:15:11
Andrew Wilsoncivilization no well I mean maybe there's a small part there but it was Christianity basically is what destroyed Rome so that's what that's what basically took out Rome you know when
01:15:24
Andrew Wilsonit's all said done was Christianity the idea of no more unification of religious paganism but uh I guess that's neither here nor there you could that's another thing you could be fighting over just
01:15:34
Andrew Wilsonreligion what's the scarcity there um oh sure I don't like you know Christians says I don't like Muslims Muslims say I don't like Christians sure
01:15:46
Miss Kenzieit's sure where's the scarcity um I mean obviously that's not a scarcity of resources so sure I can concede that there could be other motivations yeah so and any I would say that would be the
01:15:57
Andrew Wilsonmain V motivation though okay and so then within any motivation men are going to be the operators of force Doctrine they're going to be the ones fighting the war right okay yeah so if there're if that's the case they're going to necessarily need authority to do
01:16:12
Miss Kenziethat it's a necessary Condition it's a necessary condition with the authority mhm this my argument for why patriarchy is a necessary condition I mean we we
01:16:24
Miss Kenziecan we can agree that you know the men that are fighting are not the men making decisions right no they very much are often making decisions yes really you think that like
01:16:35
Andrew Wilsonpresidents like Eisenhower are going going to war yeah Grant went to war Eisenhower went to war I mean the list of presidents that went to war is insane and the pipeline between General and
01:16:46
Miss Kenziepresident is also insane so yeah definitely lot of presidents sure I I would sure there are examples but ultimately I think there are obviously like a class of people making decisions and then enacting that
01:16:58
Andrew Wilsonthrough a proy of military what gives the president the most amount of power though is he's commander in- chief of the United States armed forces that's what gives him his primary proxy of power that's what gives all men their
01:17:09
Andrew Wilsonprimary proxy of power is the authority over Force so the thing is sure I don't disagree with that the difference is is men can always change the conditionals for leadership and women can't so necessar I think under patriarchy
01:17:22
Andrew Wilsonabsolutely sure how could they do it under matriarchy now I mean what what's the ultimate goal here for for Society for to be made I mean are you asking
01:17:35
Andrew Wilsonfrom my view or are you asking from your view from your view oh well from my view it's simple just the the spreading and propensity for Christian ethics in society why because I think people live better lives that way what do you mean
01:17:46
Andrew Wilsonby Better Lives oh I would say things I we'd probably have some agreement here right healthy children Healthy Families well adjusted uh lack of General degeneracy in societies things like that
01:17:58
Miss Kenziesure and so can can you give me a little bit more specifics I mean that was pretty specific like what uh would you say like access to Medical Care yeah I think you need General access to Medical Care yeah
01:18:09
Miss Kenzieaccess to housing yeah in order to be healthy yeah yeah access to education sure um so I mean then we agree that
01:18:21
Andrew Wilsonthe desired outcome of society would be human flourishing yeah but we have a very very different idea of what human flourishing is okay well what what is that for you so when
01:18:33
Andrew Wilsonyou just talk about base things yeah I can agree with you that uh human beings generally speaking need to be educated to have housing things like this right but these are basic needs sure right when you but what about when you're
01:18:45
Andrew Wilsontalking about a hierarchy of needs what happens when we get past the basic needs what happens to civilization then what do you mean well okay so let's say we all have houses most of us do we have
01:18:56
Miss Kenziesomeplace to live almost nobody in the United States is starving almost nobody well that I mean uh starving and food scarcity I think are two different things I one in seven families rely on
01:19:07
Miss Kenziefood banks are they Starving in terms of starving to death in terms of starving at all um I I guess I just don't know how I would like relate starving yeah so
01:19:20
Andrew Wilsonthey're relying on a food bank the difference between that being relying on the state for food the food is the basically the alleviation of the ability for you to eat right or not eat yeah so obviously if we're going to talk about
01:19:33
Andrew Wilsonthen like access to food um like it would be nutritious calorie dense food well I mean uh yes but also not prepackaged process [ __ ] right yeah um
01:19:44
Miss Kenziemaybe calorie dense wasn't the right word I me nutritious stse uh yeah whatever the nutritional standard is we would agree sure
01:19:54
Andrew Wilsonfood scarcity like kids go to go to school hungry no every every kid who would possibly be hungry at school has access to school lunch program um I mean depending on uh where
01:20:06
Andrew Wilsonyou live I know where I live school lunch is free but but not States there's no there's no place I'm aware of where if you are under the poverty line school lunch isn't serve to you for free but if you are above the poverty line then you
01:20:19
Andrew Wilsondon't have access to school lunch uh yeah probably not do you agree with that then yeah I think that that's fine okay yeah I don't think that uh so that would just be a misallocation of
01:20:31
Andrew WilsonParental resources so you're just misallocating resources they're your resources you can allocate them correctly or incorrectly I don't see why the state need allocate them for you well if we're going to talk
01:20:44
Miss Kenzieabout then kind of like the Dynamics of capitalism I do think we need to acknowledge that obviously capitalism needs to create a poor class in order to exploit their labor so I mean if if you're poor and you only have X amount of dollars so
01:20:56
Andrew Wilsondoes communism what do you mean well so do do you agree with me when it comes to class that there's a such thing as social class um I guess it would mean what I guess I would need to know what you
01:21:07
Andrew Wilsondefine as social class academics versus laborers sure like Prestige sure yeah so I mean is it going to be still in the Communist Society laborers to do most of the
01:21:17
Miss Kenziework yes but they would have access to the they they would own the meanss of production to where essentially they would have access to the materials in order to execute the labor whereas the capitalist has access to that so they're
01:21:29
Andrew Wilsonable to steal the Surplus value yeah but then you would have academics still who would have prestigious positions of being able to determine where the things which they now the means of production need to go and so those people
01:21:41
Miss Kenzienecessarily end up with authority there's no way around it I mean I don't think uh like Authority in class are let us pretend for a second that intertwined
01:21:52
Andrew Wilsonlet's find out let's let me this real quick before I let you move on I I just wanted to go back to the original Point yeah we will but just real quick this whole table's communism let's say okay
01:22:02
Andrew Wilsonand uh within the confines of this whole table every little individual industry the workers own the means of production okay okay they're all producing it all who gets this decide where
01:22:14
Miss Kenziegoes um well that would be the proletariat the proletariat decides where it goes yeah how uh through democracy through voting okay so government
01:22:25
Andrew Wilsonum well again it would depend on what you mean by government it would just be people in a governing body who make decisions on behalf of this democratically they democratically elected sure I just want to make the the delineation that it wouldn't be
01:22:36
Andrew Wilsonconsidered a state okay but it's a government sure yeah and so necessarily the people in the government who are making the decision on where these resources go MH those people are necessarily going to have to be imbued with authority okay
01:22:49
Andrew Wilsonyeah so if that is the case you're always going to end up with a class Society because the people who have authority are always going to have Prestige um well but it's it's the
01:22:59
Andrew Wilsonworking people that have the authority no they they don't what the proletariat they don't get to determine where their resources get allocated somebody has to determine that whoever determines where
01:23:11
Andrew Wilsonthe allocation of the resources go they're the ones be the community the community would have the authority so what if the community votes then to keep all of the resources for themselves and
01:23:20
Andrew Wilsonnot share them with anybody okay they don't have to share them um correct I mean obviously then that sounds an awful lot like capitalism how would that be capitalism
01:23:32
Andrew Wilsonwell I mean what's the difference right now between a company who has a a bunch of employees and they all make a whole bunch of products and they sell all those products and they keep all the money for themselves wasn't difference
01:23:44
Andrew Wilsonbetween that and a group of people who own the means of production the company they own the company and they sell a bunch of product work keeping their own product not not the capitalist workers are what do you mean workers
01:23:56
Miss Kenziekeep their product now money no they don't they keep a paycheck right no the the product is um so if I'm a worker and my labor makes uh $1,000 worth of profit
01:24:08
Miss Kenzieyeah uh the capitalist pays me my hourly wage which could be let's just say for the day a 100 bucks and then he keeps the 900 but in um you know that that's like an example within capitalist but within Communists like the workers own
01:24:20
Miss Kenziethe means of production which means there's no capitalist who owns the factory who owns the materials how do these people who work in these factories allocate the resources amongst each other amongst each other well you can
01:24:32
Miss Kenziehave uh democratically elected leaders or you can uh have votes so these democratically elected leaders could democratically say these people over here do more work than me they get more
01:24:43
Miss Kenziemoney well I mean under communism ideally would be uh moneyless but I think it would just be determined like if you work for a th if you work and produce $1,000 you get $1,000
01:24:55
Andrew Wilsonso if your production makes $1,000 you get $1,000 can you spend that $1,000 on getting a bigger house than somebody else well again if we're talking about
01:25:04
Andrew Wilsonlike true Communists it's it's moneyless so this kind of example um isn't really relative yeah but I'm just I'm feeling to see a single example you're giving me where I can't be like well it sounds
01:25:17
Miss Kenzielike we could have class off of this immediately well I think class and Prestige or kinship are different concepts yeah I'm not disagreeing but I'm talking right now about class so it just sounds
01:25:29
Andrew Wilsonto me like if you have more resources you would be set in a class of other people who don't have as much res resources that that would be class right well no because you would have access to the means of Productions of
01:25:40
Andrew Wilsonresources that well you'd have access to the means of production at least where you work for resources right I mean you could go to like but you still need fruit and you still need bananas right
01:25:51
Miss Kenzieyou still need steak you need all of these things you need so somebody going to have to decide where all that [ __ ] goes right so that everybody get so then it would be yeah the community or and I think you can do
01:26:03
Miss Kenziethat through reason through practicality well you can't have like you couldn't have 300 million people voting on where each individual piece of it would be like individual uh sex of community so obviously like let's just say for
01:26:15
Miss Kenzieexample like Brazil is exporting coffee and they have a really bad coffee season yeah then you know maybe exports don't go to countries that are farther just ones that are closer because there's only so much amount that someone
01:26:28
Andrew Wilsoncan get and then so yeah maybe someone that makes no sense what do you mean well you're still going to have central people in a central Authority who would have to determine where cuz when you
01:26:40
Andrew Wilsonthink about resources like just look around this room there cameras and monitors and plates and cups and I mean it's enormous amount of resources just looking around that all need to be allocated all over the place in equity I
01:26:53
Miss Kenziemean depending it doesn't necessarily need to be Equity based on someone's need based on necessity well everybody needs plates sure yeah so I mean you have to so I don't I don't necessarily say there would be one Factory in Texas that would
01:27:07
Andrew Wilsonproduce all the plates within the country you can have multiple Industries based in certain communities but somebody's going to have to determine where all the plates in the country go how many how many does Houston get well
01:27:17
Andrew Wilsonthe community can determine how how do you determine that How would how would the community so then going to vote on each individual shipment going to every node of the United States well again I
01:27:30
Andrew Wilsondon't know like why we're just saying that one place makes plates well you that was your example no I said there can be sex of oh I agree there could be that's even worse that just makes it the problem even more complex how well now
01:27:42
Andrew Wilsonwe got there's already plates going to Houston they don't need them what do we do with our plates we we send them over here to this guy yeah wherever there's a need I I mean I don't know why we produce something that we don't somebody's going to make the determination of the need okay that's I don't necessarily think so there's going
01:27:56
Miss Kenzieto be there's going to be what are called middlemen middlemen who are going to make a determination on where resources I think there are going to be people who do administrative duties sure those people are always going to have a higher Prestige than the laborers I
01:28:07
Miss Kenziedon't think that's class that that's definitely class it's not class then why are making making decisions is not class
01:28:15
Andrew Wilsonif you have authority authority is not class no no oh okay so then um who would you say that you have the same same amount of class hierarchy as the
01:28:27
Miss Kenziepresident um no why well that's not class though like me and the president those aren't class determinations those are Authority determinations they are class DET then
01:28:39
Miss Kenziewhy did you just say that you don't have the same class hierarchy as him I I'm sorry if I misspoke I just want to make sure that we're
01:28:48
Miss Kenzieunderstanding the delineation between class so um yes I do think there is a ruling class and then there is a working class so in the
01:28:59
Miss Kenziehierarchy where is the president to you um it's a good question um I mean I would say the president is essentially a
01:29:11
Miss Kenziepart of the state which is kind of uh an authoritative arm of the ruling class so he's higher in the hierarchy than you uh yeah he's an authoritative arm sure yeah so can you give me examples of people
01:29:24
Andrew Wilsonhave authority who aren't higher in the hierarchy than you of people who have authority what do you mean a person who is in a position of authority over and at least as far as a government body
01:29:36
Andrew Wilsongoes who aren't in a higher hierarchy than you they're not higher than you are I mean I guess it would depend on what sex sect we're talking about any like any sect if they have authority
01:29:49
Miss Kenzienecessarily they're going to be hired I what what I'm saying is when it comes Authority necessarily Central to the idea of class um like obviously the ruling class like do you do you think
01:30:00
Miss Kenziethat people who own property have like what you would call Legal Authority yeah over people who who don't have property no no no so you would have
01:30:12
Miss Kenzielegal Authority on your property sure I but right but I would say that having property or having Capital gives you a specific type of authority that's different than say a
01:30:24
Andrew Wilsonstructural um presidential Authority it still gives you Authority my whole point is Authority so if I have vast vast amounts of property that people live on right you would definitely put me higher
01:30:36
Miss Kenziein a class hierarchy than the people who lived on my property likely so and that's because I have authority right but Authority is not just necessarily like decision making
01:30:46
Miss Kenziepositions it can also be um access to certain resources or um or
01:30:57
Andrew WilsonCapital yeah it's sure but my point is that Authority itself also seems to be a big position for hierarchy for being up in the hierarchy so what I'm saying I guess my ultimate argument just to
01:31:10
Andrew Wilsonreduce it very quickly because I feel like we're circling is just this that necessarily because men have the Monopoly on Force they will always be appealed to for Force Doctrine by women since that's the case you're going to
01:31:22
Andrew Wilsonhave to have necessary author Authority imbued in them and because of that you're never going to actually have a classless society because whoever's imbued with the doctrine of force is going to be the one who's essentially in
01:31:34
Miss Kenziecharge of people and that's just the way it is descriptively I mean do you think that men within this Society who hold High Authority are necessarily the
01:31:45
Andrew Wilsonstrongest no no so like Authority isn't directly derived from from Force yes it is here's why because you can change the condition of who holds Authority with force and Men uniquely can do that and
01:31:57
Andrew Wilsonwomen can't so while it's true you could have let's say a woman who's in charge of a group of men like let's say you're a second lieutenant in the United States military you're in charge of a group of
01:32:06
Andrew Wilsonguys right men can literally change the conditionals anytime they want to of their government and women cannot so men can always collectiv to change
01:32:19
Andrew Wilsonconditionals I'm sorry so we're talking about a lieutenant in the military and now we're talking about government conditionals well I was giving the example of where a woman could have some kind of authority over men right sure in
01:32:32
Andrew Wilsonterms of rankings sure yeah yeah sure but only that it's because men are not challenging that Authority that she's able to keep it men uniquely can do that and women
01:32:41
Miss Kenziecannot that's why so I I'm sorry are you saying that the Army can challenge her Authority no the president can remove her like in a second right okay yeah so
01:32:53
Andrew WilsonI'm sorry what what's your point well I'm just saying that if men don't like the conditionals that they have they can overthrow the nation they're in well if men are in that position though correct men are always in that position to be in the position of
01:33:06
Andrew Wilsonoverthrow are you talking like the president no I'm talking about just general okay maybe we're talking past each other let's back up inside of Any Nation institution okay
01:33:16
Andrew Wilsonin this case would you say a country okay um I don't know I guess it would depend on what you would consider country but I think you and I wouldn't disagree the United States is a country
01:33:28
Andrew Wilsonright sure okay if the men in the United States wanted to overthrow the right rightfully elected government of the United States they could women could not like citizens
01:33:40
Andrew Wilsonyeah and the only thing that would defend I I don't know about that the only thing that could defend the United States from that would be Menan so it would be men on the defense and Men on the offense but women have never
01:33:51
Miss Kenziehistorically overthrown any government with violence ever wants um again like do do you think that I I don't think men um citizens could could overthrow the United States government
01:34:04
Miss Kenziebecause of but that's because men would be there with guns to stop them well I I think that's uh because of again like tools yeah sure but what I'm saying is that only women had all the nukes that
01:34:14
Andrew Wilsonwe wouldn't win no you wouldn't win why well who would you nuke yourself no the men in your hypothetical yeah where you going to Nuke the men at that you don't have to go right so men are everywhere so the thing is is that women are
01:34:27
Andrew Wilsoneverywhere to I agree but men have the ability to enslave women and women don't have the ability to enslave men men have the ability to take themselves out of any governmental situation they want via force and women don't have that they
01:34:39
Andrew Wilsonnever have had that they've never been able to do it once there's never been a violent government overthrow done by women ever not even once because there's men that's the problem right they'd have to face off with men only men can
01:34:52
Andrew Wilsonuniquely do that so are always in a position of patriarchy because you have to appeal to them for Authority I I don't think
01:35:03
Miss Kenzieum that that is necessarily the case because then to when when you are going to enact uh violence against a group like you do have to expect that violence will be enacted against you agree and so I think there does need to be some kind
01:35:18
Andrew Wilsonof evaluation on why you're enacting the violence sure but that's the the problem is is like let's say we come to an agreement of why men
01:35:30
Andrew Wilsonare enacting violence right the Chinese are enacting violence against their women because of I don't know some cultural taboo from a thousand years ago I'm just wondering why men like what what is your philosophy around men
01:35:41
Andrew Wilsonenslaving women I I think I've already covered this I think they ought not enslave anybody but not just women they also ought not enslave men sure yeah it has nothing to do with the condition of
01:35:53
Andrew Wilsonwomen how however they're the only not have a duty to abuse that Authority well how is it abusive how are they abusing that Authority by simply well like and what when you're talking
01:36:04
Miss Kenzieabout abuse if men voted and women couldn't but men fought the wars and women didn't how's that abuse well I again I I think we're going
01:36:15
Miss Kenzieback to like a system that is in current Place uh for like unnecessary reasons like
01:36:24
Miss Kenzieessentially we're talking about how societies interact today under um noncooperative or uh non-cohesive
01:36:35
Andrew Wilsongoals okay what's the argument though for well for why it is that if men are are fighting the wars they're necessarily in
01:36:48
Miss Kenziea position of privilege where they can make the determination I mean I I don't like women can fight against uh alongside men I don't think this is they
01:36:59
Andrew Wilsoncan't they literally cannot fight alongside men they they have like in the Civil War women were sneaking in to the military women were not fighting do you want would you like to get a death count on how many women died in combat in the
01:37:10
Andrew WilsonCivil War versus men well they weren't allowed to enlist in the Civil so they they snuck in they're allowed right now and they fought on next to their husbands and you like a list of how many women right now are in combat Infantry
01:37:23
Andrew Wilsoncapable of going to the front lines in comparison to men do you want to know how many that is sure okay well let's start with this special forces how many female Navy Seals do you think there
01:37:34
Andrew Wilsonare um none how many none that's really weird are they I'm sorry are they barred from being Navy Seals um no oh that's and they are
01:37:46
Miss Kenzietrying to become Navy Seals um I I think there have been women who a lot I mean how many Navy Seals are there I don't know but how I mean let's say I think that's a it's important
01:37:58
Miss Kenziedelineation to make too cuz I'm sure you would argue a majority of men don't meet that requirement sure so how many men are meeting that requirement again it's but all the ones who are are men you
01:38:08
Miss Kenzieknow again but again it's saying the fence is 6 feet tall you have to be able to see over the fence and you know so you want them to lower the standard of physical strength for Navy Seals well again like if we're if we're talking
01:38:21
Miss Kenzieabout the certain systems that are in place I don't think like there there are countries that exist without Navy Seals there are countries that exist without what country exists without special forces there's no country that exists
01:38:34
Miss Kenziewithout special forces not one not to the degree that we have here I mean are you saying all countries have a Navy a military and an Air Force there's no country I'm aware of that doesn't have a military none well again I I delineated
01:38:46
Andrew Wilsonbetween Air Force that's just branches of military right yeah so what like no I think if you live in the middle of the desert you don't have a Navy but obviously yeah if you live in the desert you don't have a Navy but you still have a military that's the point sure but
01:38:58
Miss Kenzieagain like to what degree do you like how how large does this need to be I don't think it necessarily needs to be always a a necessary condition of a
01:39:09
Andrew Wilsonsociety yeah it does need to be a necessary condition of a society or because you have to have force in order to run a society you have to there's no there's no way around it but back to this you kind of off escate and almost
01:39:21
Andrew Wilsongot away with it but how many females Navy seals are there they're zero they're not barred from doing it so what's the barrier for them I mean obviously physical capacity they can't meet the physical capacity and so the
01:39:33
Andrew Wilsonthing is hang we can break this down going beyond that beyond the Navy Seals we just start with the Special Forces let's move over into other uh types of Special Forces how many female Green
01:39:42
Andrew WilsonBerets oh I have no idea how many do you think um I don't know okay well Green Beret special force I don't think there's any of those either okay okay uh
01:39:53
Andrew Wilsonbut if you get into combat infantry right women who are capable of being in combat in the Infantry MH would you say that that is on par with men or less than uh probably less than significantly
01:40:06
Andrew Wilsonless yeah yeah I don't think women are seared towards Armed Forces now let me ask you a question sure let's pretend for a second that you were a general you're and you should be able to think like a general right because women
01:40:17
Andrew Wilsonaren't incapable of that or anything so the enemy right the the enemy really likes to Grape women like that they really like that right and you have men and women who can
01:40:30
Andrew Wilsonfight in the front lines right so you draft men and you draft women do you think that the enemy would try to demoralize you by graping your women yes yeah would it work demoralize women no
01:40:42
Andrew Wilsonto demoralize men and women wouldn't it demoralize the men if the enemy was graping female soldiers and you could they could like hear them I think that would demize anyone sure yeah but it would if really demoralize the men right
01:40:56
Andrew Wilsonwhat I what what's because they can't do anything to stop it okay and they want to stop it right I would think anyone would want to stop gra yeah sure but uh when you're talking about your fighting
01:41:08
Andrew Wilsonforce right do you think that the enemy is going to Grape the men I mean if there's no women sure they don't that's what happens in prison yeah sure it happens in prison not usually in
01:41:19
Miss Kenzieinfantry combat well I mean cuz there's no like we're just giving example like when there's no women men Great Men yeah but that's first of all that does happen in prison it's not common but let me ask
01:41:31
Andrew Wilsonyou this would it be more common in prisons would it be Comm more common in prison for there to be grape if they were co-ed [Music] um I mean grape happens a lot in prison
01:41:43
Andrew Wilsonbeing sex segregated yeah would it happen more if it wasn't sex segregated like if there was a lot of women around very violent inmates do you think that they would get graped there would be
01:41:54
Andrew Wilsonmore grape or less grape um I think the women yeah they would grape women there would be a lot more grape right I mean there's opportunity they're smaller easier to do sure the same thing is
01:42:07
Andrew Wilsongoing to happen in combat is necessarily like just an active physical strength yeah maybe not there needs to be motivation like I'm commanding you to Grape the enemy because it demoralizes them sure yeah so I mean don't you think
01:42:20
Andrew Wilsonthat that takes away from the effectiveness of women in combat in general um I mean not not necessarily
01:42:32
Miss Kenziewhat so you're saying because women are present and there's an opportunity for the no in combat they're present right women women are present you agree that people get captured in combat all the time right so so let's just I I'm sorry
01:42:45
Miss Kenzielet let me just understand this hypothetical here so there's hypothetical one where the entire infantry is men yeah and there's hypothetical 2 where mixed it's mixed MH
01:42:55
Miss Kenzieand what what's there are different outcomes yes very different outcomes why are the the ones with men having a
01:43:07
Andrew Wilsondifferent because they're not getting graped by the enemy they're getting captured by the enemy but they're not get be demoralizing not as demoralizing as sending your own soldiers back pregnant with the enemy's enemy or
01:43:19
Andrew Wilsonenemy's baby inside of their womb that seems way more demoralizing to me okay wouldn't that doesn't that seem way more demoralizing to you um I mean definitely for one thing finding soldiers who would
01:43:30
Andrew Wilsonjust like have gay sodomizing sex with men would not be easy to do but finding soldiers who would be willing to Grape the enemy's women doesn't seem like that
01:43:40
Andrew Wilsonwould be very difficult to find okay would you agree with that sure yeah so yeah it's a it would be very demoralizing wouldn't it yeah yeah so it's probably not a good idea to have women on the Frontline combat because of
01:43:53
Miss Kenziethat reason right [Music] um I mean I I guess that's just kind of assuming that that is like essentially what's always going to
01:44:03
Miss Kenziehappen do you think that our enemies are not going to Grape our women um I guess I guess it would depend I mean if we're talking on front lines
01:44:13
Andrew Wilsonlike hand toand combat um they haven't seen women they're fighting a war they haven't seen women in like 2 years what do you think
01:44:22
Miss Kenziethey're going to when they capture civilians yeah what does that they haven't seen women in 2 years no that
01:44:30
Andrew Wilsonthen you know they grape civilians as well sure yeah I agree yeah that's why usually when armies pull back they pull their civilian population back with them mhm so what because they don't want to get their female population graped by
01:44:44
Miss Kenziethe enemy okay that's why they do that like okay so yes I do recognize that obviously there's going to be a different outcome in war for women than there is for for men gender yeah they're going to get graped and then they're going to get pregnant that's going to be
01:44:57
Andrew Wilsonreally demoralizing right I I don't disagree but I I don't know if that's like a well I'll just ask you this you're in charge of your nation's security and the enemy
01:45:08
Andrew Wilsonis brutal and they're horrible and you need to win this war by any means necessary would you order your men to Grape the enemy women no even if you
01:45:20
Andrew Wilsonneeded to win what if they were going to grave your women and you needed to demoralize them would you do it no see not even equipped to make these decisions not even equipped to make
01:45:31
Andrew Wilsonthese decisions to justify grape no so just just to make sure that I got this right the enemy will justify that though right uh yes I don't know if
01:45:44
Andrew Wilsonthey'll justify that but but they'll do it I mean depending and you just you just won't do it no so then it seems to me like having women in the military under your command probably wouldn't be a very good idea
01:45:57
Miss Kenziecuz they're going to get graped I I don't know how commanding my soldiers to Great their women would prevent the women in my milary from getting I'm just I'm just explaining to
01:46:06
Andrew Wilsonyou I'm not telling you that you're making an immoral decision you're not right what I'm telling you is that under your view even if you're in command you still would acknowledge that the enemy
01:46:17
Miss Kenzieis going to Grape your soldiers yes it it you know just like I would acknowledge that enemy could kill my soldiers they're going to kill your soldiers for sure yeah but they're also going to Grape your female soldiers mhm
01:46:29
Andrew Wilsonso do you think they have an advantage if there military is mostly men and yours as co-ed in infantry combat um again I think it would depend on other factors you know like access to
01:46:40
Miss Kenzieresources strategy you have access to the same resources roughly that that's not that that's just an equalizer like that that's not actual real uh combat or like the real structure of it what do
01:46:52
Miss Kenzieyou mean I mean like I've said before what what good is brute Forest strength if you don't have water and food no I mean you have access to roughly the same amount of resources you and the
01:47:03
Andrew Wilsonenemy right you're just equalizing it that's my whole point yeah I'm talking about water and food real life what yeah it's real life that most of the time when professional militaries are
01:47:15
Miss Kenziefighting with each other they have water and food what do you mean it's not that can be a real hurdle for a lot of militar making sure that they still have access to water and food but it is the case that most of the time professional
01:47:27
Andrew Wilsonmilitaries have access to water and food most of the time would depend on the conditions yeah sure it depends on the conditions but you have significant advantages to having all soldiers that
01:47:37
Miss Kenzieis an important tenant sure it's not just Brute Force strength it is strategy brute for strength it's access to resources and who do you think has the
01:47:46
Andrew Wilsonability to have longevity in conditions which are extremely hot extremely cold that fluctuate all the time that require
01:47:56
Andrew Wilsona sense of physical Readiness which sex you think yeah men yeah so wouldn't you be advantaged if you're if you didn't waste resources on training females for physical combat when you could instead
01:48:08
Andrew Wilsontrain males for that um yeah in some sense so then again why the hell do you want women in combat
01:48:17
Miss Kenziein the military it's silly I mean if if they have the capacity to perform I mean obviously we're already looking at there is going to be kind of a filter for men
01:48:28
Miss Kenziein general but I mean you're right in terms of we're if we're looking for the elite within this specific one area then then that is going to be men yeah so then if you have access to men you're
01:48:40
Andrew Wilsongoing to be spending x amount of money on soldiers why would you syn the same amount of money into a female for combat if you could sink that money into a man for combat well I mean we've already established that within this kind of
01:48:51
Andrew Wilsonlevel of of that it should be men it's going to be men just because yes it's going to be men and it should be men because they're going to be better at it right sure okay
01:49:03
Andrew Wilsonthen what privilege do they get what privilege does who get do these men get because women aren't aren't able to do these jobs what privileges should
01:49:12
Miss Kenziethese men get um in in terms of like rights these specific these specific men well just men in general all men
01:49:23
Miss Kenziewhy would all men because all men can be drafted and sent into combat well again this is like going from special infantry to draft is very different no it's not yes it is okay well then let's take a look at the Ukraine do I mean do the
01:49:35
Andrew WilsonUkraine right now men can be drafted up until age 65 they're not being drafted they are being drafted up till age 65 they're not they are the last draft that happened was in the 70s and the Ukraine
01:49:46
Miss Kenzieyes a man has not been drafted since the 70s oh we talking about the Ukraine government yes oh I'm sorry that's how we were talking about the United States yes I said then the Ukraine okay the Ukraine men can be drafted up to 65 well
01:49:58
Andrew WilsonI I disagree with the draft okay got it that's great you disagree with it mhm but the only people right now who can be drafted are who men and the reasons that we just went over previously determines
01:50:10
Andrew Wilsonthat the reason that we want to draft men is for this these exact reasons because they're stronger they're better in combat these are the positions we would need them in and because these are the positions we need them in women are
01:50:20
Miss Kenzieexcluded from those roles well again going from special infantry to just military bodies obviously more is just going to be better why it more takes way more resources more is not
01:50:32
Miss Kenziebetter yeah but numbers is also uh another strategy that wins War if you have more soldiers than the other team ye yeah sure that can be helpful
01:50:43
Andrew Wilsonbut it's more helpful to have a very well-trained very combat ready military if you're drafting you're not they're not going to be well trained well we've won Wars with draes that plenty well trained so the thing is is like that's
01:50:56
Andrew Wilsonincor being trained and being well trained are two different things I guess you had Specialists too but the point is they were very much trained and they very much kicked the [ __ ] out of half the world so that was with draft e okay so the thing is is we've already
01:51:08
Andrew Wilsonestablished that men are far better in these roles than women men ought to be in these roles and not women this is by your own logic so what privileges should men get considering they can be drafted
01:51:18
Miss Kenzieinto these roles and women cannot be I mean if if we're going on a society based on like this is always going to be the outcome and this is a necessity um I I don't think necessarily
01:51:31
Miss Kenziethere would I I'm I'm not against sending men to go to war against their will you are against it or not I I am
01:51:42
Brian Atlasagainst sending men to go to war against their will so Oh I thought you said not oh maybe I misspoke I'm sorry but you see just to just to clarify for the audience you you mean uh you you are
01:51:53
Miss Kenzieagainst it okay I I would want them to um to elect to go and so what happens if nobody goes like they didn't want to in the Ukraine does Russia take the Ukraine
01:52:03
Miss Kenzieover does Russia take over Ukraine um I mean I think it would again depend on uh other resources available if there are other militaries if there are other there's no so other militaries aren't going to step in then
01:52:16
Miss Kenziethen yeah that would happen but I mean again forcing forcing men to go I mean you can't force them to fight they yes you can forcen to fight how the same way they did under communism they say you
01:52:26
Andrew Wilsonrun at that Machine Gun Nest and if you turn around we will kill you and that's exactly what they did well I mean then what they did was they lined up they lined up thousands of
01:52:39
Andrew Wilsonso Soviet soldiers they handed him a rifle they said if you die the guy behind you pick up the rifle reload and continue to go and if they turned around and came back if they ran away men with machine guns were waiting for them and
01:52:51
Andrew Wilsonmowed them all down okay okay so yeah you definitely force them to fight we we I mean that's been done time and time again if you ran away in World War II you were a traitor and you were shot that's forcing you to fight run
01:53:03
Miss Kenzieaway from combat you get shot right I I'm saying obviously if if they don't fight they die like that's clear but um like if if they think they're going to die
01:53:16
Miss Kenziealready I'm confused what do you know going to war they're like I'm pretty much going to die already so I'm just going to try and Escape so I can avoid that and if they kill me oh then the outcome is the same well that's not what happens I guess I guess my my issue
01:53:28
Andrew Wilsonyou're compelled and pressed into service like you can't do anything if you're if you sign up if you don't sign up for the draft as a man in the United States you're not supposed to be able to vote I know so then how come if women
01:53:40
Miss Kenziedon't sign up for the draft they get to vote that's [ __ ] well again I'm I'm against the draft yeah I I got it so then just nobody defends the nation well I think obviously within America we have
01:53:51
Andrew Wilsona huge uh Society that's very big on militarism which is why no one has been drafted nobody's been drafted because we haven't fought a professional War where we had hundreds of thousands of body bags being
01:54:01
Miss Kenziesent home that's why nobody's been drafted well sure but also there um I would say people are joining more than they were back then no I think that the rates per population remember at the
01:54:12
Andrew Wilsontime I think there was only 150 million people there was like half the people at the time than there is now mhm so no I think proportionately plenty of people were joining the military I I know if it's at the same rates because you had
01:54:24
Andrew Wilsondifferent benefits for it but plenty of people were joining the military okay the thing is though is that we just haven't had a war where hundreds of thousands of people die you have to replace your your soldiers right sure do
01:54:35
Andrew Wilsonyou think people are going to be more or less likely to join if people are dying in Mass Al they'll be less likely to die yeah they'd be less likely so then what do you do you compel
01:54:46
Andrew Wilsonservice like what else what else can you do other than compel service um I mean not go to war yeah but like you can't why do you think you can decide those things like