Tradthot E-GIRL DRAMA?! Do Modern Women Deserve Trad Men?! She IS The Table?! | Dating Talk #255

Date: 2025-08-11

Duration: 8h 49m

Guests

Brian Atlas

JJamie (Teacher)>

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_03Zena(guest)

SPEAKER_04Ellie / Jamie(guest)

SPEAKER_05Heidi(guest)

SPEAKER_06Kamaya(guest)

SPEAKER_09Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_10Paulina(guest)

SPEAKER_12Mars (USC)(guest)

SPEAKER_13Elizabeth(guest)

Key Moments

IntroAll 8 guests introduce themselves

Key MomentHeidi reveals situationship partner is a male sex worker

Key MomentRinggate e-girl drama: Sarah engagement ring / Pearl Davis / Emily / Morgan controversy

Key MomentHeidi vs Brian: 'Are you looking for a boyfriend or an ATM?'

OtherPaulina leaves the show at ~472 min

Topics Discussed

Guest Introductions

8 guests including Heidi (situationship with male sex worker) and Jamie (DV survivor).

Heidi Male Sex Worker Reveal

Heidi's situationship partner is a male sex worker.

Ringgate E-Girl Drama

Sarah engagement ring / Pearl Davis / Emily / Morgan Twitter drama react.

Farting in Relationships

Brian's strong anti-farting stance in relationships.

Equal Partnership vs Providing

Heidi vs Brian: 'Are you looking for a boyfriend or an ATM?'

Paper Abortion Debate

Legal paternal surrender / male reproductive rights debate.

Body Count Round

Heidi 1, Elizabeth 2, Kamaya 5, Mars under 25, Ellie 0, Zena 10-25, Jamie 8.

Transcript

Page 9 of 9

Brian Atlasinteresting." >> I mean, I, you know, I hooked up with a random person in Italy and Greece and Yeah. No, I don't feel that way. >> Yeah. I mean, the the reason it comes up is like sometimes there's a frustration when it comes to like women will have

Brian Atlastwo different standards. Like on one hand, they'll hook up with certain guys really quickly. often times if they're traveling they'll just have fun and then they come back home and they're uh oh I'm going to wait >> well

Mars (USC)>> I want to wait 3 months to have sex because I'm that kind of girl but really they're not >> I will just say that I know in having guy friendss that guys tend to look at

Brian Atlaswomen differently after they put out and do do you disagree with that >> I think some guys can yeah me personally I don't really have any qualms about >> I don't feel like I need to wait a Yeah,

Mars (USC)exactly that. And I feel like my ideal partner wouldn't feel any type of way about it either, which is why I don't. But I I know that some men think, oh, women should be pure and divine and no bodies and I take their cherry and blah

Mars (USC)blah blah, like this purity thing. And I understand that there could be religious components to that. And I, you know, I validate and I respect everybody, but that's just not >> how I live my life. >> Okay.

SPEAKER_00>> Oh, he's back. >> 8,591 $69. Hey Ellie, sorry to bother you once more. But good luck in your last year of

SPEAKER_00school. I know you will do great if by the end of school you haven't found somebody. Find me on the socials. We'll wait for you.

Ellie / Jamie>> That is so kind. And thank you for the for the prosperous wishes on my last year of school. >> Nice. Have you thought about college at all? >> Thank you. Appreciate it. >> You know where you want to go? I'm going to apply to all the UC's and then

SPEAKER_07>> you know >> you you give me City College. >> You think? >> Yeah. >> Well, I mean I like >> conspired. Anyways, whatever. >> Yeah, whatever. >> Whatever. >> Whatever.

Brian Atlas>> Oh my god. Who the hell cares? >> All right. 15. Uh, women do not have equal rights to men in the USA. Jamie, you agree? Heidi, you agree? You think

Brian Atlaswomen do not have equal rights to men in the USA? Uh, why is that? And then do you two agree with that? >> I don't think women have equal opportunity. I don't know about equal rights. So >> don't have equal opportunity but okay. You agree with it?

Heidi>> I agree. >> Okay. Uh why do you agree with that? >> Because of the job market. >> A lot of places hire men over women. >> Okay. >> It could be like a job that a woman is

Mars (USC)more qualified for, but they're still going to >> have the job to a man. how majority of companies now will place your resume through AI scanners and AI scanners are

Mars (USC)biased toward white men. >> AI is [ __ ] >> Okay. >> Well, they ask your gender on >> because they base it on the history of all their employees. >> So, this is I don't want to speak to

Brian Atlassomething I don't know about. So, this AI thing you've presented to me, haven't heard of it. >> Okay. >> Don't really know. What I do know is that there's massive amounts of affirmative action that has a preference towards hiring women and then like

Brian Atlasyou're in the you're in the entertainment industry, right? >> And it's run by men. >> Hold on. In Hollywood, there's literally I I forgot if if it was the Grammy not I'm sorry. Grammys is music. The Oscars

Brian Atlassaid your productions in order to qualify for certain awards. Uh, I don't know if it Academy Academy Awards is that the TV Wait, Academy Awards and Oscars are the same, right?

Brian Atlas>> I don't know. >> Wait, what's the one for TV? There's TV and then there's film. >> The Oscars are film The >> Emmys. Okay, so I'm pretty sure it's across the board between both film and

Brian Atlastelevision. They say you need to have this many much diversity and you need to hire this many women in these sorts of worlds and you need to have uh thi this many >> and they just got rid of that right

Brian Atlas>> racial groups. I don't know did they those are companies that got rid of >> but there's absolutely been like massive hiring freezes for white men

Brian Atlas>> but they just got rid of the diversity act. uh the diversity they some some companies are rolling back their diversity initiatives but trust me Hollywood is still cooked. Hollywood is

Heidistill cooked. There's a massive hiring preference towards women and minorities >> because men run the industry. They already are all in the industry. There are barely any women at these companies.

HeidiI've worked at them. >> Which companies? >> I've worked at Warner like Warner Music Group. Like I've applied for the music industry. >> Yeah. In the music industry, it is mainly run by men. >> It's mainly run by men.

SPEAKER_14>> They're not doing a good job. >> Who's the most like famous uh isn't the most like well- paid and like Taylor Swift. She's the highest paid musical. >> You're really taking the one extremity anomaly. >> I mean, this idea this idea that like

Zenawomen are held down in the entertainment industry. the highest paid music. I feel like a woman is a good example as to a woman who

Zenahasn't been treated the greatest cuz Kanye came up to her while she was getting her award >> and she >> No way. No way. No way. And that was unprovoked something to be >> unneeded and for what? >> And for what? I feel like that's a good

Zenaexample on how >> for a strong black woman >> for at at an award ceremony where >> Beyonce had the best video of all time. >> Yeah, exactly. But that's what I mean. That's a good example. But I bet you if that was a man up there, he wouldn't

Zenahave done that. I bet you that was >> done that [ __ ] >> But he didn't. He did that to a woman. >> Beyonce had the best video of all time though. >> Okay, but that is incredibly rude. >> Beyonce had the best video of all time. >> But I feel like that's incredibly rude to go up there and

Heidi>> Beyonce had the best video of all time. >> But it's so cool. But Beyonce had the best video of all time though. >> I mean Kanye, but I feel like I kind of deserve that [ __ ] to be honest. >> In the corporate world, I'm not talking

Heidiabout becoming a singer. I'm not talking about becoming an actor, an actress. It's in the corporate industry of the entertainment business. It is run by men. All of the executives are men. All

Brian Atlasof like the highest paid people at these companies are men. >> Okay. Now you're looking at the apex though. Like there's been massive hiring freezes when it comes to men, when it comes to white people, especially white men. Massive hiring freezes

Heidi>> because they're all in there. That's all they have in those buildings. I've >> But there's affirmative action for women. So, >> yeah, for a reason. >> Uh, but okay. Besides the hiring stuff, is there anything else when it comes to women do not have equal rights to men in the USA?

Heidi>> Besides, >> men can't kill their kids. >> Any >> Oh, we're talking about abortion now. I see. >> Well, she brought it there, huh? Um, that was my main point with the equal

Brian Atlasrights thing. It was mainly about jobs. >> Jobs. Okay. Uh, what's for you? What? Women don't have equal rights. Why is that? >> Uh, for me, I feel like I feel like

Zenathat's actually a really good example is like the abortion. I was when I was thinking of equal rights, I was also thinking about like the job scene. But um like with everything that's going on

Zenaright now and talking about taking away the abortion laws to allow us to have abortions, I feel like that's a prime example of how women are not having the

Brian Atlasright to choose. >> Okay. So I I understand that abortion is mostly something that impacts women, but I don't think it's evidence of an

Zenainequality that exists between men and women. if you if you wanted but I feel like it's an inequality because if men are being forced if >> it's an issue that only concerns women

Zenato be honest. Women go through pregnancy >> but I feel like it is an inequality. >> Yeah. >> I feel like I feel like I feel like I feel like >> I feel like it is an inequality. Well, so

Mars (USC)>> to carry babies if men have the if men have the right >> laws would not be getting revoked that they would not be being forced to give child birth when it guarantees their death. >> Like I feel like but but men aren't being forced to stay. It's not like

Zenathey're being forced to help raise the kids. They're >> I would like to hear your opinion cuz you clearly feel strongly about this. >> Not all the time. They don't always pay child support. They definitely don't. I >> Well, so >> sometimes you just pick wrong, you know. Well, so I mean

Brian Atlas>> I feel like I personally feel like it's an in >> if the guy is totally broke, then yeah, you can't get blood from a stone, but if the guy does have some resources, he does he is making money. Yes, the court

Brian Atlasthe courts are very effective at collecting child support. So yes, women can through the court, through the state force men to pay child support,

Brian Atlas>> but as it relates to the abortion issue, >> I understand that it is an issue that women deal with, but it wouldn't be an example of not having equal rights to men. I feel

Mars (USC)like >> do do you feel just theoretically that if men were the ones who carried and went through pregnancy and you know there were situations where men would

Mars (USC)die if they went through child birth or maybe they got raped and you know they have to carry Exactly. Do you think that maybe the laws would be different when it came to abortion? You really don't think so? You really don't? >> No. >> No, I don't think so. >> That's very interesting.

Brian Atlas>> I mean it's it's a Here's the thing. It's a uh super crazy hypothetical that we obviously would not be able to know. I don't think the laws would necessarily be different. >> All right. I think

Mars (USC)>> I mean what evidence I guess you make the argument for why the laws would be different then? >> Well, because most people who are in positions of power in this country are men. And you

Mars (USC)don't think that they would favor toward men? You don't think that? >> No. >> Not really. No. Because the law is kind of sort of about what's fair and equal. >> What's fair and equal about a woman having to give child birth and dying on

Ellie / Jamiethe table? Because >> wait, so in this scenario, the women, they don't extrapolation birth. >> That's not an extrapolation. That's a real thing that happens. >> I understand that's a real thing that happens, but like it also like doesn't

Ellie / Jamiehappen as well. But it does happen. That's like I don't understand your logic at all. >> Regardless of your opinion on abortion, >> Yeah. I said what I said. Yep.

Ellie / Jamie>> Men don't have the right to kill their kids. And in certain states, >> women can do that. >> Well, can I ask you, do you think that there's a certain term date where you see it as women

Ellie / Jamieviewing their kids or you think it starts at conception? >> Conception. Okay. >> Cuz it's I mean it's scientifically like what it is. >> Are you religious? >> Well, even there's like a secular argument. >> So, are you religious though? >> Of course I am. That was just my

Ellie / Jamiequestion. >> But, you know, you can't unring that bell. Even Even secularists believe that. Yeah. >> Yeah. You could be an atheist and be pro-life. >> Yeah. No, I was just asking her if she was. I wanted to get full context.

Brian Atlas>> Yes. >> We can't really linger too long on the abortion convo, but I again, I understand that abortion is an issue that women care deeply about, whether on one side or the other, but I don't think

Brian Atlasit'd be evidence of a uh women not having think >> like a right that a man has. >> You don't think women being taken away their right to choose is an inequality

Brian Atlasbetween women and men? >> Well, there's no court. So, if it was the case that men also could get pregnant just as women could get pregnant. >> Okay. But where's the accountability?

Brian Atlas>> Get abortions and women couldn't, this would be evidence of an inequality. But because abortion is something that uniquely to very simplifi very keep

Zenathings simple uniquely impacts women. >> But what I said was so you don't think that women having their right to choose taken away is an inequality between men

Brian Atlasand women. >> Right. So when we're talking about equal rights, we're doing a comparison between the rights that men have and the rights that women have. In this case, this is

Brian Atlassomething unique to women. So men don't have either a right to abortion or no right to abortion. >> Okay, but they have the right to impregnate a woman, >> but men also have something to happen.

Brian AtlasBut that's what I mean. >> Hold on. Men don't have a right to get women pregnant. >> Men have men don't have >> but like but like but like like if men can get women pregnant but women don't have the choice to keep. That's why I mean they have the choice.

Ellie / Jamie>> That doesn't really logically follow. >> Men have the right to vote on that though. So do women. >> But so then why should men be able to vote? >> It affects women. That's still inequality. >> Fathering the kid that's getting

Ellie / Jamieaborted. And even still, that's not what I said. In some states, women perfectly well have the right to choose whether or not >> men are able to. >> Hold on, if I can finish, please.

Ellie / Jamie>> Women do have the right in certain states to have an abortion. What men do not have the right to do in all states is to kill their child. That's what I

Kamayasaid. That's the point that I was making. That's the inequality. Women do have the right to choose, just not in certain states. >> Do you think that if so, if a woman gets

Kamayapregnant and she wants to choose to have an abortion, but the husband or man doesn't want to have have her have the abortion, what do you think should happen then? >> Then she should not have the abortion.

Ellie / JamieSo, first, why does she want to have the abortion? And second, why does he not want to have an abortion? Are they buried? Were they trying? Is there something wrong with this child? >> Realistically, I'm just thinking like

Kamayaone night stand, you're not a you're in college, you just don't want to have a kid. I mean, >> it's not irresponsible. Like, >> yeah, but you know, I think I think we can all agree that there's

Zena>> Oh, Mr. Meow. >> Meow donated $69. American women are the most protected class in the world. >> There definitely up there >> probably most likely privilege.

Brian Atlas>> I'm looking to this kind of leads into our next thing here. Again though, I'll just say uh again abortion whether whichever side of the aisle you fall on

Brian Atlasthis is something that uniquely impacts women. Well, okay, I'll just leave it. uniquely impacts women, but it

Brian Atlashas it doesn't pertain to an inequality of rights between or comparison between men and women. Like the the true

Brian Atlasequality on this issue would be given the status that men have zero say. >> Women should like what would be equality

Brian Atlasbetween men and women. I know you won't like this. Would be to have absolutely zero abortion rights. That would create equality between men and women. No, it wouldn't.

Brian Atlas>> This is why feminism is not feminism is not an equality movement. It's a uh it's a woman's advocacy movement because where feminists won't fight for equality

Zenaif women won't stand to benefit in some way. wrap that around your >> how does taking Okay, so just to make it just to make sure I understand, you're

Zenasaying that >> just taking it away in general and having like like no abortion allowed for both men and women. >> Yeah, >> that's equal to that's equal to you. Why

Zena>> that would be >> But you just said you just said that men can't have abortions. >> That's correct. >> Because they can't get pregnant. >> But so how is that being equal? But wouldn't you agree that that is equal? You might not like it, but it would be

Brian Atlasequal. >> How is that being equal to take away a woman's choice? That's what I mean is that you're taking away her choice. >> Yeah, I'll make it super simple. >> Like they have the choice to impregnate her. She should have the choice. >> Women can't have abortions that meets

Brian Atlasthe definition. But if a man chooses to get a woman pregnant, she should be able to have the choice. If she doesn't want that baby, I'm I'm actually >> It's not equitable. Yes, it's equal, but it's not equal. >> Yeah, but we're talking about equal. So,

Brian AtlasI'm not making >> Well, by definition, you're correct. >> Hold on. I'm not making a uh a des uh I'm not making a prescriptive claim.

Brian Atlas>> I'm not making a uh I'm speaking about what is I'm not saying I'm not taking a position right now on the >> right >> topic of abortion, but I am speaking

Brian Atlasdescriptively as it relates to rights and equal rights. It would be the case that there would be an equal an equality that is created if

Zenaboth you no women could get abortions that would match up with the current status for men. Descriptively that's true. >> Okay. >> But I feel like you could also switch

Zenathat and if men have a choice to impregnate a woman then I feel like a woman should have a choice to not want to be pregnant. >> Yeah. cuz you know >> well that is well no no no no no no

Zenaequality >> I feel like I feel like you do like like men do have a choice to impregnate a woman that is a choice there's contraceptive >> ignoring rape right now that obviously

Mars (USC)happens >> okay yeah but that is a real statistic do you not feel you know like with incest or rape that we're getting under

Brian Atlasany circumstances abortion >> the abortion convo kind of dull to Okay. >> It's hard. It's very nuanced. >> Yeah, >> it's I'm speaking I'm keeping it to the equal rights component of the

Mars (USC)conversation. >> I think your argument is dumb. So, I'm going to pee. >> The argument is Well, what's dumb about it? >> Well, it just men can't get pregnant, therefore they can't have abortions. So, yes, men not having abortions and women not having abortions. Yes, that is an

Mars (USC)equal thing, but like it's not equitable. Yes, it's equal, but it's just who cares that it's equal. the kid. >> I feel like that's not what he's >> That sucks arguing. >> That does suck. I feel >> Well, I mean, that's a huge part that >> I think it's a component and it it I

Brian Atlasbelieve everything should be a discussion, but I think a woman should still have a >> everything should be a discussion, but the woman should have the final like what's the point of >> it's a discussion to get his input. But >> I don't know cuz you're you're going

Mars (USC)you're going you're the one carrying this child for 9 months. You could die going through child birth. I just think that it's a higher risk that the woman's taking than the men. the men's edit, but especially here in the western world.

Brian Atlas>> What does it have to equal rights? Okay, men can vote though. You're just like shoving it off. >> You guys want to keep diverting to the abortion argument in your what's your argument?

Brian Atlas>> It pretend I'm not trying to have like a back and forth pro-life pro-choice. I'm speaking strictly about the differential in rights between men and women. In this

Brian Atlascase, there is not a differential like men don't have a right that women don't. >> Yes. Yes, I agree with that. >> As it relates to this, men have zero

Brian Atlasreproductive rights. >> Men have no reproductive rights. >> Quit [ __ ] har. >> The you would either have to give men reproductive rights, >> right?

Brian Atlas>> And then that could it wouldn't I guess that would be equity, right? because men can't have abortions. But they could have like they could say, "Oh, I got you pregnant, but I don't want to be a

Brian Atlasfather, so I don't have any uh I don't have to pay you child support. Even if you want to keep the kid, >> I don't have to be in the kid's life. Even if you want to keep I don't have I I relinquish all my uh paternal responsibility." >> Okay?

Brian Atlas>> And this is called sometimes they call it a paper abortion. They call it legal paternal surrender. >> Okay? >> But it's not a thing. Oh, >> there's no state where a guy can say do a paper abortion where he says, you know,

Brian Atlas>> I'm not financially ready. I'm young. I don't want No, it's not a thing. Men, >> the woman could well, and there's some crazy scenarios. I know you brought up the essay thing. >> She could do that. Is that what you

Brian Atlasmean? A woman could essay an underage boy, get pregnant, >> and then force him >> to >> the victim to pay child support. Like that will hold up in court though?

Brian AtlasReally? >> Absolutely. So a woman could essay an underage >> genally hold up in court. >> Yes. >> Yes. She could be charged I mean she could be charged with a some sort of alternate crime, but as it relates to

Brian Atlasthe child support component, >> he's now financially responsible for that child. >> He would have to pay child support >> I see. >> To his uh perpetrator, I guess would be the one. >> Yeah. Well, yeah. I think I think it's

Brian Atlaslike look that's obviously like really rare scenario but generally speaking there's plenty of men out there who you know they they've got a girlfriend or they have a one night stand they get the girl pregnant she keeps the kid he's on

Brian Atlasthe hook for 18 20 21 plus years >> right and on the 18th birthday >> so we could start making arguments well it wouldn't be totally equal but the equitable thing would be okay in states

Brian Atlaswhere women have abortion rights let's give men a right to escape >> I think that's fantastic I I I vote for you. >> Okay. But it's I I'm not sure if that will ever happen. There's massive

Brian Atlassystems and infrastructure, lawyers, court systems, uh the the government bodies, the like CPS or whatever, I for child support, whatever. There's massive

Brian Atlasinfrastructure that wants to keep this the status quo and aren't going to give men an equitable uh exit from an unwanted or unplanned pregnancy.

Brian Atlas>> Right. And you think those reasons are for profit? >> Uh yeah, there's like I think there's typically uh I don't know if it's like

Brian Atlaslawyers organizations that uh want to keep it this way because lawyers make a [ __ ] ton of money, right? >> Fighting over child support and >> and courts enjoy it because it's a it's

Brian Atlasa revenue stream for them. M >> uh so yeah >> I think that'd be I mean my perspective is in states where abortion is legal men

Brian Atlasshould have a corresponding right to say well I'm not financially ready for they don't even need a reason in the same whatever the circumstances a woman can get an abortion a man should be able to say I don't want to pay child support I

Brian Atlasdon't want to have any responsibility >> I think I think that's fair there's obviously nuance to that >> women can murder their unborn born children, men should at least be able to abandon them.

Mars (USC)>> Okay, that's a very extreme claim with harsh wording, but I think I see where you're coming from. >> I feel like men will still abandon them, >> even if they can't legally do it.

Ellie / Jamie>> Oh, they should be a little bit more intentional about who they be [ __ ] >> We have some chats coming through. >> Everyone wrap it up. Wrap up your Willie. >> Devon Jackson donated. >> Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00>> Man, this panel is [ __ ] slurred. Men have no right to choose. He can't force her to have the abortion or not. >> Come for him, not for us. >> 100% her decision. That is not an example of an inequality that favors

Brian Atlasmen. >> He's right. >> Is he? >> He's right. The man the man can't force her to have the abortion or not have the abortion. Anyways, one more. >> Well, legally. >> Yeah. Not legally. >> Legally.

Mars (USC)>> S7 Wizard donated $69. 95.9% of abortions are States do not allow abortion in the case of danger to the mother's life.

SPEAKER_00>> States allow abortion in Texas to the mother's life. >> And on the vote S1, you are not drafted but vote on war. >> What was that last comment about?

Brian Atlas>> Chair one, you're not drafted but vote on war. Oh, cuz you said uh men get to vote on abortion, but >> men can vote on women's rights

Heidi>> just like women can vote on a bunch of stuff that >> strictly impacts men. >> If you're talking about the government officials that get the right to take away women's rights, there's more men in

Brian Atlasthose chairs. >> Well, I mean, the Actually, there's more women. There's there's a larger electorate body that is comprised of women. There's more women voters than there are men voters.

Ellie / Jamie>> It's not about the voters. It's about the people that are in the Supreme Court deciding who >> Well, now you're shifting the goalpost to the Supreme Court >> because those are the ones who are able to take away the rights. They kicked it

Brian Atlasback to the states. The states then vote >> on their own state. >> The Supreme Court hasn't outlawed abortion. States make the determination. >> Yeah. But they're the ones that reversed

HeidiRover versus Wade. >> Yeah. which pushed it back to the states. >> Yeah. But what I'm saying there's more men in those chairs making those decisions than women. So it's not equal. >> Are there?

Heidi>> Yes. >> There's seven judges. >> It's not judges. >> Okay. So it's odd. It's still an odd number. And most of them are men. >> All equal.

SPEAKER_00>> All they did was hand the matter over to each of the 50 states to vote on it. >> We got to move off of though. Um, >> desert donated $69.

Brian AtlasKeep your [ __ ] legs closed. Use trumpet slugs. >> Damn. What the [ __ ] They're coming in hot here at the end. $69. TTSDreamlabs.com/ whatever >> for your money. >> Uh, men are more privileged in society

Mars (USC)than women. Heidi, you agree with this? Does anybody else agree with this? Men are more privileged in society. >> Um, I think, you know, there's different qualifications for what that even means. Like pretty privileged, for example.

Mars (USC)like girls going out to a bar, not having to buy for a table or wait in a line or buy drinks. Like, okay, maybe women's lives are more privileged in that regard. But I think to generalize, I would agree with that claim. I have to go to the bathroom. >> Sounds good.

Brian Atlas>> Okay, >> Heidi, you circle this. Uh, men are more privileged in society than women. How so? >> Jobs. >> Just jer. Just the jobs.

Heidi>> Yeah. >> Um, how I how so? I guess in what way? It's the odds of getting the same job as a man. It's the same with race.

Heidi>> Same with race. >> Yeah. A white man is more likely to get the job a qualified black woman would apply for. >> Well, I don't know the statistics on that, but at least as it relates to gender,

Brian Atlas>> the same qualifications, and they're still going to choose the white man. Look, there's massive there's massive amounts of uh hiring priority in massive

Brian Atlasin from massive corporations all the way down, there's tons of affirmative action that places a priority in hiring women. If you look in urban areas, you look in

Brian Atlascities, uh single childless women under the age of 30, they outearn their male counterparts. Women are out earning men, especially in 2025. You look at major

Brian Atlascities, women are frequently frequently out earning men. There's plenty of job opportunities for women. This idea and then further if we're looking at differentials or gaps, you know, you'd

Brian Atlaslike to say, okay, well, women don't get these really glamorous jobs. Women don't make as much money. Even if I go ahead and grant that this is true and I have some disputes as to this,

Brian Atlasmen occupy the absolute worst positions there are. We watched some videos earlier. So men are way more likely to die on the job. They're more likely to be crushed on the job. They're more

Brian Atlaslikely to have arms and legs and fingers severed on the job. They're more likely to freeze to death on the job. They're more likely to burn to death on the job. More likely to be crushed to death on the job. There's all kinds of gaps that

Brian Atlasexist. Why is it that we only focused on the amount of money that's made as it relates to gaps, the wage gap, but we don't look at the, you know, I think honestly the bigger gender grievance,

Brian Atlaswhich is that men are way more over represented in workplace fatalities and workplace injuries. Why don't we ever examine those gaps? >> Well, cuz it's not the same job.

Brian AtlasYou're not doing the same job. If I'm working, I don't know, at McDonald's, I would expect to get the same as my male counterpart. But >> they do though. Women do get paid. In fact, oftentimes they've done audits of

Brian Atlasthese companies. They did an audit of or Google did a self audit and they're like, "Well, we're a feminist and we want to make sure that the women are paid the same." They actually found out that they were paying women more than the men. How do you explain that?

Brian Atlas>> Are the women negotiating and the men aren't? Well, if it was the reverse, you would just say that that's sexism. >> No. >> So, if the men were just Well, that's actually one of the components for why

Brian Atlasmen uh there's an earnings gap. Men are more likely to negotiate. Women are women are more likely to take the first offer or take a lesser offer

Heidi>> because men are usually offered the job over a woman. Like I said, if the qualifications are the same on paper, >> are they? >> Yes. Like

Heidi>> Uhhuh. >> theoretically, if you and a woman apply for the same exact job, qualifications are the same. >> And I'm not talking like physical labor jobs. I'm talking like corporate jobs.

Brian AtlasLike, >> what about uh you think I'm more likely to be hired as a uh like a teacher >> for young children? >> There's lots of male teachers. Um, >> are there more female teachers or male

Brian Atlasteachers? Like in the elementary school level? >> I think there's more female, but it's also choice of what career you want to go in. >> I agree. There's a lot there's choices. Men make certain choices. Some of those

Brian Atlaschoices happen to pay men more. Women make a lot of choices. A lot of those choices happen to pay women less because of choice, not because of sexism. >> But HR is the one that is hiring,

Brian Atlas>> which is predominantly made up of feminist left-wing women. Why don't feminist left-leaning women who run the HR departments, why aren't they hiring women? >> Because it goes through AI.

Brian Atlas>> Goes through AI. >> But hold on. But AI is like within the past two or three years, women were running HR departments for decades. So

Heidiwhat's going on there? >> I mean, I am 25. AI has been around since I've been applying for jobs. They teach us how to make resumes for the AI scanners.

Heidi>> Like it's been like what, three years? >> I didn't say. I'm talking AI in general. Like the ATS scanners are the ones that are going through the resumes and deciding which résumés get pulled for

Heidithe jobs. >> And you're saying that there's evidence that they're just disqualifying all women. >> Why do you think they choose to put on the application gender ethnicity? There

Heidiis no reason why a job needs to know that. When you're applying for a job, >> you can decline to answer. I know sometimes I do and I get more interviews when I decline to answer. >> Um, but there there was a study that

Mars (USC)came out that released that an ATI company ATS um for a major company was biased toward white men. I'm not saying that's every company, but >> I'd have to see the study. I haven't

Brian Atlasseen it. No, >> it does exist though. Uh but again, I I guess my question to you is why why is it that we only hyperfocus in on the

Brian Atlasmoney component and not all the other things? >> I'm not focusing on the money component. I'm talking about the opportunity to have a job. >> Why is it that 94% of workplace fatalities happen to men? Like I think

Brian Atlasdying is kind of a bigger deal than like some women make a few dollars >> murder labor, right? Wasn't that We talked about that for a while, >> right? But why isn't there a fight for like equality and feminism? Like, let's

Mars (USC)get more female brick layers. What's going on there? Why can't like as well adapted as you guys are to fulfill those jobs proficiently?

Brian Atlas>> Question for you. If you knew that there was a risk for a job that you could die or be maimed, would you probably want to be compensated for that? >> Of course. >> Okay. That's why you think jobs where

Brian Atlasthere's a risk of injury or death, people are probably less likely to do that job. >> I Yeah, I would I would say for the most part >> and there's a greater demand for that job.

Brian Atlas>> Um, it depends. >> Sorry. When I say I guess there's a demand from the not not from the employee side, but from the employer side.

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. Could you give me >> because there's less people willing to do the job? >> Yeah. >> Okay. And are men more likely to work dangerous and dirty jobs? >> Yes.

Brian Atlas>> Okay. So, if it even from your perspective, it would you would have to be paid more to do that job >> for sure. >> Whereas most people would be fine in an air conditioned like you don't need to

Brian Atlasbe a man. You don't need to be paid more to work an air conditioned office job. Like no, you don't have to be convinced to do that. >> Yeah, I'm confused. What's like the question? >> Well, I'm saying that one of the components, and by the way, the wage

Brian Atlasgap, there's like multi, it's multi-aried, multiple reasons for why this earnings gap exists. First off, the wage gap is often times the number that's quoted, it's just comparing all

Brian Atlasthe money that men make to all the women that money make. It's not factoring in hours worked, type of job, uh, location. >> Yeah.

Brian Atlasuh fields of work, all these other factors, overtime, etc., etc., etc. So, one of them is though, h men are more willing to work these like dangerous, >> right?

Brian Atlas>> Undesirable jobs. And undesirable jobs because they're undesirable often times tend to be rewarded. >> Uhhuh. >> Uh more because of their undesirable

Brian Atlasnature. Like if you're working a job where it's like you're an underwater welder and delta P there's a chance you get sucked into a tube and like instantly vaporized, you should probably

Brian Atlasbe compensated well for taking on the risk of doing underwater welding. >> For sure. >> I agree with hazard pay, right? >> Hazard pay, >> right? Men are much more likely to engage in hazard pay. That's only one of

Brian Atlasthe many metrics by which this earnings gap manifests itself. But when you start accounting for uh all these different variables and you compare like for like it shrinks to just 1 cent. Men earn 1

Heidicent more than women. >> But I think it's more of the problem in companies where they are paying a man more than they are paying a woman for the same pro. If she can prove it, she can file a lawsuit.

Heidi>> Well, that's why they tell you not to discuss your financials with co-workers. They tell you not to tell your co-workers how much you're getting paid because most of the time it's unequal. >> Well, I mean, I'll I'll propose this. >> That was my wage gap.

Brian Atlas>> Really quick, show hands. Who here wants a guy to pay for first dates? Just show of hands super quick. >> Okay, so I think ignoring even all the things I listed, the fact that men work more, they work more hours, they work

Brian Atlasmore overtime, they're more likely to relocate, they're more likely to do XYZ, different thing that happens to be correlated to higher pay.

Brian AtlasI argue that it's actually women cause the wage gap. Women through your own sexist expect gendered expectations. You want men to pay for first dates. You

Brian Atlaswant men to be providers. This creates a mating pressure that exists only on men. It doesn't exist in the reverse. It doesn't exist back. You create you want men to pay for first

Mars (USC)aids to be providers. They're going to be more motivated to make money. they're going to be more motivated to work harder. >> I think issues like the wage gap are nuanced, but I agree with you that women do contribute to part of the problem.

Brian Atlas>> Well, if the standard is as a woman, I want a man to pay for dates. I want to be a provider, that would create a social pressure, a mating pressure that exists one direction but doesn't exist the other direction.

Brian Atlas>> Like as women, >> you want money like for yourself. >> Yeah. >> But it's never part of the calculus. >> Yeah. Not looking for women with money with >> I'm making a bunch of money so uh women want to [ __ ] me,

Brian Atlas>> right? >> Or sorry, men want to [ __ ] me. Well, I guess you're bisexual, so maybe it works out if you're by I don't know. >> But yeah, it's not like >> women can absolutely be super motivated.

Brian AtlasObviously wanting to take care of yourself, being financially secure, that is very motivating, but you don't have this added level of pressure or

Brian Atlasmotivation >> on the basis of uh finding a boyfriend. >> Yes. >> Like you can be broke. >> Yes. >> And guys are still going to want to deal with you, but if you're a broke guy, >> that does have an impact on your dating

Brian Atlasprospect. >> I totally agree with you. Not to some women deal with broke dudes, but it does have an impact in the very simply y'all want a guy to pay for a first date. >> If a guy can't afford to pay for a first date,

Mars (USC)>> I hear that. I I I agree that it's harder to date as a poor >> man, unattractive man than a poor unattractive woman. >> Tough out there. It's >> all right. One more thing from the questionnaire. We're going to let some

SPEAKER_00chats come through and then we're going to get this wrapped. Uh two chats coming in. Desert Judge donated $69. Take some [ __ ] accountability with

Brian Atlasregards to who you let [ __ ] you raw and inseminate you. >> I mean, yeah, >> take some accountability. >> Yeah, I show. >> Yeah. >> All right. Oh. Uh, we're going to do uh

Brian Atlasthe makeup removal. Actually, wait. I'll wait for that temporarily. Uh, final thing from the questionnaire. Sorry, two more things from the questionnaire. My bad. A woman's passion not matter.

Brian AtlasTalking about body count. You agree. Uh Elizabeth, you agree? Ellie didn't even circle anything. Okay.

Brian AtlasUm she just agrees. She disagrees on everything. Um okay. Who here thinks a woman's passion not matter? Body count? >> I think everything's nuanced. >> It's nuanced. Okay.

Brian Atlas>> I know you hate me. >> No, it's okay. No, no, you you've been super respectful. No, absolutely no hate. >> Thank you. >> Um, why >> are we judging men for their body counts? >> You can if you want to.

Heidi>> Absolutely. >> Nothing stops women from judging men for it. >> I don't think a body count should determine your value to another person. >> It doesn't determine the value, but it

Kamayamakes me worry about your your choices and your judgment sometimes. Like if a guy if he slept with over 200 women, I'd be like it's a little like what's going on? What's going on there? You know, I'm like is everything okay mentally? Like I

Heididon't know. >> In our generation, it's a little different just because the body count number for like the average person is gone up for our generation specifically because of the sleeping around culture. Um

Ellie / Jamie>> has it? I don't know. >> It it definitely gone down two ways. I think it's gone down. It might have gone down. I see that Gen Z is having less sex because nobody wants to talk to

Ellie / Jamieanybody in person. But then I also >> hear specifically on >> the extremes are so much higher probably. >> Yeah. And I think that also like there's

Ellie / Jamiebeen a pull away from like typical values I think too in a very very big way. Um and I mean like even going so far back like I'm like I said

Ellie / JamieI'm 36. my parents, right? >> Like my parents had their values, >> but they didn't always like push their values on to us. I have four siblings.

Ellie / Jamie>> Um, so I mean, you know, we kind of called it like we see it, you know, and if we didn't see it, then we made it up. So, >> okay. Well, uh, I guess, uh, so who here

Mars (USC)thinks, just show of hands, uh, body count doesn't matter, shouldn't matter, passion matter, >> does not matter. You said >> shouldn't matter. It doesn't matter. >> It matters. >> Wait, does it I don't

Mars (USC)>> I couldn't I couldn't 100% agree with that claim, so I can't raise my hand. >> That body count does not matter at all on under >> Yeah, I don't think it matters. >> I couldn't I couldn't agree with that.

Brian Atlas>> Sure. Uh well, here I'll ask this. Uh if body count shouldn't matter, doesn't matter, what's your body count? >> One. >> Felicity. >> Two. Five. >> Into the mic if you can.

Mars (USC)>> Five. >> Five. I'm not sharing this. >> Do you want to do range ballpark? >> Um, under 25. >> Did you lose track? >> No, it's just that's nobody's business but my

Mars (USC)>> Okay. So, you do know the number. >> I do know lose track. >> Yeah. >> Did you stop counting? >> Um, I you know, it's not like every time I had sex I went and wrote it in my notebook, but you know, I I have a an

Zenaidea. I could recall all the times if I wanted to. Ellie >> zero. >> Um I don't know off the top of my head. >> Ballpark range. >> Um more than 10. >> So could be a thousand.

Zena>> Well, no, not more than 10. Less than 25. >> Okay. >> Did you lose track? >> Uh no. I'm just not really a counter. >> Okay. Stopped counting, I guess. What

Ellie / Jamieabout you? >> Eight. >> Okay. >> I'm married and I'm not giving that information. me just out of respect for my husband. Yeah, definitely not. >> You don't want to do a little ball ballpark or

Brian Atlas>> I mean it's less than eight for sure. >> Do you guys want to give your like girl count like how many girls you've >> Would you like that? >> Right. >> I don't know. Just that maybe you're

Mars (USC)more comfortable being like I done [ __ ] >> kissed a couple chicks. >> Yeah. Um I I would Well, for me it's just the the area I grew up in, there wasn't a lot of gay girls. So I would

Mars (USC)say coming to you know LA that has changed. Probably like I would say a fourth of my sexual experiences have been with women. Maybe maybe even a third.

Brian Atlas>> I would lit >> I would say half my sexual experiences have been with women. >> Okay. Uh two questions on this. Uh would you date a guy who previously had sex with men?

SPEAKER_02>> Yes. No. No. If he was the top. >> Okay, >> that's real. >> Interesting. What if he was the bottom? No. >> No. I like a masculine man.

Brian Atlas>> Yeah, I would. >> Um I don't know. >> Would you date a guy who previously had sex with prostitutes? >> Like he he paid them >> he's clean but he >> or like he just happened to date a

Mars (USC)prostitute >> or like he purchased her services. I see. >> No. >> No. >> No. No, >> no, >> no, >> no, >> no. >> What? What if it's just one time? >> I don't care. >> One time.

Brian Atlas>> Why are you that damn bad? Like, go on Tinder, bro. Hook up with someone on Tinder. So, >> we have dating apps. It's 2025. >> Literally, it's not rough. >> I'm not in favor of men seeking out prostitutes, but I don't think it

Brian Atlasnecessary. Like, maybe you just wanted, you know, whatever. I think it's kind of lame, I guess, but >> go to the strip. Whatever. >> Oh. Um, can women,

Mars (USC)so this is this would apply just to you two because nobody else indicated uh here on this. Uh, can women be sexist towards men? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Everyone can be sexist. Everyone can be

Mars (USC)racist. Everyone can be human. >> Can can anybody be Can you be racist towards white people? >> Of course. >> I don't know. I I believe that I I

Mars (USC)believe that I could as I'm Latina, I can be racist toward any other race or >> Can black people be racist towards white people? >> Um I don't maybe stereotypical is a better word. I don't know if racist is the right word. Would you What do you think?

Zena>> I think it's the right word, but what do you think? >> I I just don't know. >> Okay. What do you think? >> Oh, stop. No. No. I'm not thinking. I don't I'm trying to think of like what to say.

ZenaI don't think you can. You're being racist. >> I'm just Are you black? >> Yes, I'm Puerto Rican and black. >> Okay. But so as somebody who's I guess

Brian Atlashalf black then like lat >> is it what is it called? Afro Latina. Is that the term? I don't know. >> Is it >> I don't know. Is that offensive? I don't know. Um as somebody who's black, >> can you be racist towards a white

Zenaperson? >> I don't think personally I can like like Okay. Okay. Wait. Okay. Wait. Let me let me actually Wait. Let me explain this. Me and my me and my other black friends

Zenahave talked about this before. >> We think that because systematically like when it comes to black people and white people because white people have kept us down for so long and we're finally in this sense of like

Zenaempowerment. We don't think you can be racist towards a white person because that's just reparations. >> Can you give me an example of being racist toward a white person? >> Yeah, give me an example and I'll tell you whether or not >> Oh, crackers.

ZenaThat's not the same gravity as the >> No, it is not historically stars. >> Don't Don't say the N word if you >> Oh, we going to >> just cuz we're on stream. >> I wasn't going to say it. >> Like >> I'm like classy dress. I would never.

Brian AtlasI'm classy today. >> Yeah. >> Not black. So not be saying that. >> Yeah. I would say for example, if a black person assaulted a white person because they're white, I would

Mars (USC)consider that crime. Well, yeah, that's a that's a crime. That's a racist. >> Yes. That's a hate crime. So therefore, it is racist. >> Oh, I feel like that's just assault. >> Wait, because they're white. >> Because they're white. >> Oh, yeah. That's racist

Brian Atlas>> then. Yeah, totally. >> So, black people can be racist towards white people. >> Yep. You heard it here first. >> Is it? Do you think it's racist though? >> I think that's highkey. Hot take. I

Zenathink that's reparations. But that's my personal thing. That's my personal thing. What about if you but but genuinely but genuinely I do think that's like like don't be don't beat

Zenasomebody's ass. Don't do that. Don't I No, no, no. I'm not saying violence is okay. I'm not saying violence is okay. I don't promote the violence.

Brian Atlas>> Okay. All right. Well, um I do think that uh anybody can be racist towards anybody. It's just race-based bigotry, hatred. It's

Brian Atlas>> longer than I am getting paid for. We're getting tired. >> Okay, good talking. Well, I mean, that's it for the questions pretty much. Um, we're going to let some chats come through before we do we do a segment.

Brian AtlasSo, uh, do it quick if you want to get this wrapped up. Uh, take people take off their makeup on stream. You guys want >> I'm only wearing >> So, as you know, I just had surgery. I have stitches right here. >> Okay.

Mars (USC)>> I need like hydrogen perox. You know what? I have like a whole thing when it comes to >> I don't need other I mean, you >> I mean, I can. It's just um >> All right, Ellie's probably not a good idea, >> right?

Mars (USC)>> Hey, have me on next time. >> So, your your makeup is just like perma on. >> No, I when I get back to our hotel, I have to There's just a lot of steps to it right now because I need to make sure it's sanitized and I don't know what. >> All right, we got some troopers here.

ZenaEverybody else is doing it. That's fine. She's She's recovering from a from guys. >> Just letting you know. >> When you're done when you guys are done, >> hold it up for the camera. I'm going to let some chats come through.

SPEAKER_00>> Here we go. Here's mine. >> We're out of here within like 5 minutes. >> Wizard have like the best skin ever. >> Yeah. You you you know you know the only makeup artist skin. It's true. >> If you have a business and get equally

Brian Atlasqualified men or women and you can pay her less, you would hire only women. >> This is true. This is true. Um, if it was the case that you could get

Brian Atlasaway with paying women less, corporations could just take advantage of this and just hire only women and save like 20 30% on payroll. Well put, wizard. Thank you. I have another one

SPEAKER_00from Mozart Bugatti. >> Donated $69. Women mad at men. Women mad at being women. >> There are only two sexes on earth and

SPEAKER_00you're at war socially with each other. Get a [ __ ] life because you're cooked. You're an asexual NPC. >> Wow. Who's that for? >> I'm not sure. >> Thank you, Mozart's Bugatti. Good

Brian Atlas[ __ ] name. Uh, who If you're done, hold it up. Let's see the damage. Okay, there it is. We got the damage over here. Hold it up. Hold it up. >> Mine looks so like >> Hold it up. >> My cellar water.

Brian Atlas>> Good times. >> Oh, I love my cellar water. I'm telling you. >> Yeah, this horrible for your skin. If you guys need to use two, feel free. >> Very generous here at the Whatever podcast, you know, if you need two. We're not going to be stingy with the

Brian Atlasmakeup lights. Guys, final call. If you want to get a uh TTS in, I'll give you We're wrapping within five, so you have a bit of time to get a TTS in. Get it in, boys. $69 TTS final. If you want the

Brian Atlasfinal word, >> okay, I got a big pizza. >> If you want a final word here on the show, final call. TTS, get them in, boys. Ah, it was a good panel. You guys were good. Uh, >> I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation.

Brian Atlas>> I enjoyed it. It was fun. >> Yeah. And I appreciate you. Obviously, we disagreed on some things, but you were very respectful and you had like an open mind to the conversation. >> Yeah, totally. I think that's I appreciate that. >> Super important. Not I feel that not enough people try to look um at multiple

Brian Atlasperspectives nowadays when it comes to nuanced issues and that's something that I believe in. So, I appreciate that. Oh, it's a sign of intelligence to being like hearing a position that you perhaps don't agree with or you know, whatever.

Brian AtlasSo, you're very fair. You're very reasonable. You were very good faith. So, thank you. >> I appreciate and everybody else was for the most part except for Felicity. She'd talked too much tonight. Rude. >> Sorry.

Brian Atlas>> Uh so, I'll start the uh and Mary remember to do the little outro thing with the little audio thing. Uh, by the way guys, uh, couple things here. Stay until the end because we're gonna play a

Brian Atlasthingy. Well, you guys heard it last stream, but if you haven't heard it, we now play this cool outro thing during the outro. Also, stay until the end, guys. We're wrapping here. We'll be we'll you'll be able to leave a comment

Brian Atlaswithin a few minutes. Stay until the end. Leave a nice comment. Maybe you have something nice to say about one of the panelists. You have something nice to say about the show, something nice to say about me. Leave a nice positive comment. Just leaving a comment in

Brian Atlasgeneral helps with the algorithm and it's nice to have and I'll read them uh you know after the show I read the comments. So just leave a nice little comment help out with the algorithm. I do want to say oh also by the way no no woman here is only fans right?

Brian Atlas>> No >> no even in the past >> you plug them or something. >> No no no but like sometimes a criticism we get on the show is like oh you guys only bring on OF girls. Like the majority of >> I'm getting my degree, babe. I got into

Brian Atlassome crazy school. >> Yeah. Majority of our guests >> don't do OAF, but it's like this perpetual [ __ ] thing that annoys me. You just bring on prostitutes. I'm like, no, most of the girls are normal.

Brian Atlas>> I'm getting invited. >> Most of the women are normal girls who come on the show. >> So, not one single O of girl on this panel. Not one, not her, not Felicity,

Brian Atlasnot anybody. Okay. Okay, so anyways, moving on. Uh, GG. I want to say GG. >> Well played >> to the panel. Last call. Hit the like button, please, on your way out. Also, like I said, please stay for just a

Brian Atlasmoment. Leave a nice comment once the live ends. You can't leave a comment while it's live, but it'll be up promptly. Thank you guys for tuning in tonight. Thank you to the wonderful panel. You guys were dope. Thank you

Brian Atlasguys. It was a fun show. Fun concept. >> Thanks for having us. >> You guys could have been anywhere in the world. to the viewers. You could have been anywhere in the world, but you're here with me. I appreciate that. Thank you to everyone who so generously super

Brian Atlaschats, donates, and supports the show. We're viewer supported. We couldn't do it without you guys. You know, uh we don't want to be beholden to the woke mega advertisers, blah blah blah. So, we

Brian Atlaswill be live again Sunday, 5:00 p.m. Pacific. Great panel next week also lined up. Any girls who want to be on the show, you can DM out whatever on Instagram if you can make it to Santa Barbara. Let me see if there was any

Brian Atlaschats that came through. I don't want to screw anybody over here at the end. No, it doesn't look like it. Uh, double

Brian Atlaschecking everything. One moment, folks. All right, cool. Oh, we just have the [ __ ] Okay. I mean, Brian, where's

Brian Atlasyour wet wipe? Oh, I didn't do it. I got to take the cake off. Um, anyways, uh, thank you guys. Thank you panel. You guys were dope. Uh, is there anything we're forgetting? Nah,

Brian Atlas>> nah, we did every Okay, that was a good show. Thank you guys. Okay, uh, good night, guys. Good night. 07's in the chat and we'll see you next Sunday. Good night, guys.

SPEAKER_01>> Next time on the Whatever podcast. The year is 2025. The dating hellscape descends upon us. With high expectations, Brian Atlas faces a new

SPEAKER_01wave of egirl, feminists, and trumpets. However, will a woke [ __ ] lib drop a controversial claim that sends the show

SPEAKER_01into chaos as values clash? Will reason triumph? Or will feelings reign supreme? Find out on the next exciting episode of The Whatever Podcast.

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