Tradthot E-GIRL DRAMA?! Do Modern Women Deserve Trad Men?! She IS The Table?! | Dating Talk #255

Date: 2025-08-11

Duration: 8h 49m

Guests

Brian Atlas

JJamie (Teacher)>

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_03Zena(guest)

SPEAKER_04Ellie / Jamie(guest)

SPEAKER_05Heidi(guest)

SPEAKER_06Kamaya(guest)

SPEAKER_09Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_10Paulina(guest)

SPEAKER_12Mars (USC)(guest)

SPEAKER_13Elizabeth(guest)

Key Moments

IntroAll 8 guests introduce themselves

Key MomentHeidi reveals situationship partner is a male sex worker

Key MomentRinggate e-girl drama: Sarah engagement ring / Pearl Davis / Emily / Morgan controversy

Key MomentHeidi vs Brian: 'Are you looking for a boyfriend or an ATM?'

OtherPaulina leaves the show at ~472 min

Topics Discussed

Guest Introductions

8 guests including Heidi (situationship with male sex worker) and Jamie (DV survivor).

Heidi Male Sex Worker Reveal

Heidi's situationship partner is a male sex worker.

Ringgate E-Girl Drama

Sarah engagement ring / Pearl Davis / Emily / Morgan Twitter drama react.

Farting in Relationships

Brian's strong anti-farting stance in relationships.

Equal Partnership vs Providing

Heidi vs Brian: 'Are you looking for a boyfriend or an ATM?'

Paper Abortion Debate

Legal paternal surrender / male reproductive rights debate.

Body Count Round

Heidi 1, Elizabeth 2, Kamaya 5, Mars under 25, Ellie 0, Zena 10-25, Jamie 8.

Transcript

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Paulinacortex isn't fully developed till we're like 26 27 that controls your decision making impulses. So I see where you're coming from. >> And my issues at the time you'd never I would never guess I'd actually get out of it, but I'm so far out of it and I got the light that I'm like, "Oh, wait.

PaulinaEverything's okay." >> The light matters. >> The light really matters. It really does. >> The light matters. >> What is that? just just seeing the light as in the issues that you had in the past. It's like, "Oh, wait. They're gone. I don't have those issues anymore.

KamayaI actually overcame them on my own and took accountability." So, >> what do you think about the notion that women, younger women are more mature than older men. So, like my partner and

KamayaI, I'm 25, he's 32. When I met I was 18 and he was 25. I felt like emotionally and maturity wise, we were at the same not the same, but like a little bit closer in level than like

Paulinayou know, >> you don't have a big age gap. It's not that big. I'm talking like a guy in his 40s, 50s dating a 20-year-old. That's a really big age gap and really a different life life cycle.

Mars (USC)>> I agree with you though. I think that women tend to mature quicker than men just to generalize. My mom always said that. She always told me to kind of go for older guys because guys take forever

Mars (USC)to mature it feels like, you know. So, >> yeah. I I think that obviously I think that there obviously is a power dynamic when you are dating someone who is older

Mars (USC)than you, especially as a woman. >> What there's a power dynamic? What do you mean? >> I think that Well, you know, you're an 18-year-old girl compared to a 25-year-old guy. He has his brain's almost fully developed. You're still

Mars (USC)figuring life out. You he has like seven years of life experience on you. I think that there there can be a power dynamic. >> Yeah. I don't know why we just >> But do you you agree some people mature at different

Mars (USC)>> I totally do. I just I'm just saying it's something to acknowledge. >> Not that there's anything inherently wrong with it >> cuz I I do think that I mean you guys are engaged. Clearly it worked out. You know what I mean? And I also

Kamaya>> my most recent ex was like 5 years older than me. I think that there's levels of maturity. And also, I also think like what women want nowadays, like the stability, the financial freedom is

Kamayayou're going to find that in an older man. I'm not dating someone that's the same age as me, cuz we just don't. >> We're just It's just financially there's just no way. >> Yeah. You're in different stages of life. You know, >> I noticed men after 30 I'm sorry. Go ahead. Sorry for

Paulina>> I noticed men after 30, they really start figuring themselves out and they kind of just age like fine wine after that. That is true. >> So, it's kind of like, oh, they really they're more established. It's very attractive when they get to that point.

Brian Atlas>> Let's go back to this power dynamic thing, though. What? I don't really get what that means and what the implication is there. Like, are we just supposed to acknowledge that there is a power dynamic, but go ahead and date the person anyway? >> No, I think it's something to just be

Mars (USC)mindful of. >> Yeah. What does that mean, though? >> Yeah. I think what I mean, let's say I'm an 18-year-old girl and my boyfriend at the time is 25. I think that there may just be a controlling element in dating

Mars (USC)somebody who is a little bit more established in career, in their life. Um, that's something to be mindful of. That's all. Just look for the red flags. Don't wear rosecolored glasses. That's all that I mean >> that that I mean that's that's true in

Ellie / Jamieany situation. Don't wear rosecolored glasses. Take them right off. Um, but like I mean if you're 18 and you're dating a 25-year-old like >> you don't think that's inherently a little like you really don't you don't

Mars (USC)think cuz I don't think it's I don't think in every situation um it's weird that a 25-year-old guy is dating 18-year-old. I don't but I think it does raise the question why aren't they

Ellie / Jamiedating someone their own age? I think it simply raises that question and it's a >> discussion. There's obviously like a connection there, >> you know, and I mean, if you're 20, if you're 25 and you're dating someone who is 18,

Heidi>> I think it's weird, honestly. >> Yeah. 25year-old one at a time. Finish your point that you can go. >> If you're 25, >> what? It's what? You're 25 dating 18. It's what?

Ellie / Jamie>> It's not weird. For one, if you are a guy and you're 25 and you're further along in your career, you want to date somebody that you know you're interested in that's 18. I mean, you could lay the groundwork for you guys building a good

Brian Atlaslife together. Like, >> it's not not grooming. No. >> Wait, wait, wait. >> No, it's not. >> She's 18, 25. That's exactly >> Wait, hold on. Is teaching your partner your likes and dislikes and vice versa. Is that grooming?

Mars (USC)>> That's not what she just said. I feel like words in my mouth. She said laying the foundation of a life that they could have together. >> Is grooming. >> Would that be grooming if it was people of the same age? It would be grooming if she was 25 and she was 16.

Heidi>> That's laying the foundation of values. >> Yeah, we're talking about a relationship. >> I think it's just an element to consider. I would like to hear your point, though. >> As a 25year-old, I would never even look in the direction of an 18-year-old. I think that's absolutely disgusting. They

Heidiare barely legal. >> Yeah, women's preferences are different though. Would you date a 35year-old? >> No, I wouldn't because I think it's weird. Why are you interested in somebody that young? Can you not find anybody your own age? Is nobody

Brian Atlasinterested in That's an interesting argument you make. So, you're saying, "Oh, well, these older guys who prefer to date younger women, they do that because they can't find women their own age to date."

Brian Atlas>> I would argue though that a guy who's attractive enough to date a younger woman is going to be deemed attractive by the women in his own age also.

Brian AtlasBecause as a woman or as a guy, in order for you to be attractive to a younger woman, you can't just be the average 30, 35year-old guy. >> Nobody's saying they're attractive, though. They most of the time when a

Brian Atlasyounger woman dates an older man, it's for money. >> No, not necessarily. It can be. >> A 45year-old dating a 25 usually gonna be for money. >> We can keep bumping the age gap, but like for example, a 20-year-old with a

Brian Atlas30-year-old, don't necessarily think it's because of money. It could just be that guy is really attractive and he wants to date a 20-year-old and she wants to date a really attractive guy who has his [ __ ] a bit more together

Mars (USC)than like the other college frat boys that she's dealing with. >> I think it's circumstantial. And to your point, all I'm trying to say that makes me, you know, raise an eyebrow at a 25-year-old dating an 18-year-old girl

Mars (USC)is you commented on about it yourself, how you feel that you've matured and learned so much now in your 30s versus your 20s. I think that not everybody is

Mars (USC)at a high level of maturity at 18. And I think that some guys know that and there could be room for exploitation in those.

Paulina>> I don't know why you're like gasping like I'm saying. >> I think I think holding the expectation that there's always a sense of exploitation is is a problem because I don't think that's the case and it's not a big age gap. What would you say about

Mars (USC)women 25 dating an 18-year-old? Is that No, just is that kind of off too? It's kind of weird or >> I don't I think I truly believe every situation is circumstantial, but I think that I've met incredibly immature

Paulina18-year-olds and I've met incredibly mature 25-year-olds that I think would not make any sense together. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. But there's kind of a sense what you're you're framing it with exploitation. It's it's it's going to

Paulinaset it up for failure. It's kind of the lack of trust. You're you're starting with that. You know what I'm saying? >> And it can cause a problem going forward. And I don't think guys, most of

Mars (USC)them have that sort of intention with women. You know, the majority are not really like that. >> It's just something to think about. I'm not trying to generalize at all. It's just, you know, something I would consider. Yeah. Go for it.

Zena>> Yeah. Um, as somebody who was 18 and dated a 25year-old, I'm just going to input real quick. I completely get what everybody at this table is saying. I get what you're saying. And like like when I

Zenawas 18 and I was dating this certain 25-year-old, like sometimes it would feel more of like a mentor student type thing instead of a relationship. Not

Zenabecause like he was trying to purposely put me down or anything, but because he had knowledge that like I just had an experience yet. Sometimes when we would talk about like my issues or my

Zenaproblems, he would more come to it of a standpoint of this is what you need to do and I know better because I'm older. >> So I completely Yeah, I completely get what you're saying and like >> equals. What do you mean? >> Well, like she just said

Zena>> like like in the in the sense >> she was giving her advice. Why? What's wrong with that? >> Well, I feel like you're misconring what she's saying. It's just >> I heard everything she just said. >> Yeah, he has more life experience. That's all. >> Isn't that a good thing? Just I I was

Zenajust I was just saying I was just saying that sometimes like like when not saying I don't want advice from my partner but there is a fine line between getting advice and telling me what to do.

Zena>> And she was saying it was something when we would talk about stuff or like or like he would give me advice on things. It would feel more of a mentor

Zenamenty type thing because versus versus we're in a relationship, boyfriend, girlfriend like type thing because it didn't feel like he was giving me advice. It felt like he was telling me

Kamayawhat to do because he had these life experiences. >> Did you have the conversation of like, hey, when you when you say it this way, when we have these conversations, this is how it makes me feel.

Zena>> We did. We did have that conversation multiple times and he just like wasn't getting >> communication. Wait, wait, wait. What's the conversation you had? >> Like for example, like a conversation

Zenathat I had with him was I was preparing a scene for class and uh there was like a trigger warning in it that I wasn't particularly comfortable with. And because we were picking the scenes, I >> trigger Okay, go ahead. Go ahead. >> Well, well, I'm not going to say what

Zenathe trigger is. >> That's No, no, that's fine. Just >> Yeah, but um >> trigger warnings and Okay. But he like but but like I told him I was like I feel like since we haven't turned in the scene yet I'm gonna talk to my partner

Zenaabout switching the scene because I'm extremely uncomfortable with this role and the way that she's portraying is just making me uncomfortable. And the way we were talk and like the way he was talking to me he was like he was like

Zenawell in the industry you're not going to be able to change your scene. So if you already picked it you should just do it because in the industry like I'm because in the industry they're not going to let you change it. And all I was trying to

Zenaexplain to him was, "Hey, we haven't turned in the scene yet. It's not like it's set in stone that I have to do it. We have three more days to pick a scene. If I can pick a scene before then, I'm going to choose a different scene." And

Zenahe was just like, and he was just like, "I just think it's stupid that you're not listening to me because if you already chose the scene with your partner, I don't think your partner's going to want to change it. And what are you going to do if your partner doesn't want to change it? You're still going to

Kamayahave to do it. So, you should just do it now. you should just learn how to deal with it cuz in the real world you're not going to be able to do that. >> I don't know if that's an age thing as more as just a his personality >> like like but do you see what I mean and

Mars (USC)like it felt like he was telling me what to do and more of like uh like he wasn't giving me advice at that point. >> Yeah. And I have a question for you just cuz I also have been like in a like little age gap relationship. I was 20,

Mars (USC)partner was 25. >> I experienced some people who didn't even bat their eyelashes at that. But I also did experience some people who they thought what like it's a crazy age gap.

Mars (USC)So I am just asking you did you experience any of that in your personal life when you got with your >> speak speak straight into the >> when you got with your partner? Sorry I'm trying to make eye contact with her. I understand.

Kamaya>> Um I at first yeah especially when I brought him home to my parents they're like oh he's a little older. But I um I think I've I've kind of set myself up to

Kamayalike want an older partner in general. >> So I kind of already had the mindset going into that like Yeah. Like you said, like it could be a a little bit of a power dynamic >> just because he's a little older, a

Kamayalittle more established, and I'm not I'm just starting my life like that. I I I get you on that one. Yeah. Um, that's all I was trying. >> You know, I was thinking about this the other day, this power dynamic thing and

Brian Atlashow older guys supposedly have more power in a relationship because of like material either material or

Brian Atlas>> they're more mature. But I was I was thinking like I think there's this unspoken power dynamic that exists between somebody who does have power and

Brian Atlasthen somebody who doesn't. So for example, and this would be somebody who has less to lose. So like let's say there's somebody really famous dating a nobody. We would say okay there's a power dynamic that exists here. This

Brian Atlasperson's really rich. They have status, influence, whatever. And they're dating a nobody. That's a power dynamic. >> But I was actually thinking the power dynamic exists in the other way because

Brian Atlashere's this person who has a reputation for themselves and if this other person comes out and tries to destroy this other person's reputation. Well, reputationally

Brian Atlasthat can't really go both ways >> because you don't have a reputation to ruin. But many of women ruin famous men's

Brian Atlasreputations all the time. Sometimes justified, oftentimes just he broke up with me, I'm upset, let me just ruin

Brian Atlasthis dude's reputation or put stuff out there, you know, whatever. Um, and it's difficult when you're the person in a relationship who does have something to lose. It's usually never beneficial for

Brian Atlasyou. Depends on the, you know, accusation or whatever. almost never beneficial for you to respond to it because you're giving oxygen to it when otherwise if you ignore it, you hope it just doesn't give it any oxygen. You

Brian Atlasjust move on. Uh but often times, yeah, I think a lot of the times there's a there's an a reversal, a flip, an inverse of the

Brian Atlaspower dynamic where the the person who has less to lose can go scorched earth and completely just [ __ ] a person over.

Brian AtlasAnd I I guess one example I could think of this is like let's say somebody somebody has nothing going for themselves in their life. Like they could just I don't know, they could cause drama. they could like make things

Brian Atlaspublic. And this is assuming like in a relationship dynamic, there wasn't anything. There wasn't abuse or anything like that. Just this person is bent out of shape because this other person wants

Brian Atlasto end the relationship or whatever. >> This person could fabricate things, could lie. >> So, I don't know. This idea that I don't know.

Kamaya>> I hear you on that. But the reputation, I think if that person that has the not as much reputation as a person that they're trying to attack, I think I

Kamayawould also think of like um does that person how am I trying to say this? Like would that person would you give that person the time of day? Like if you're a nobody and you're accusing or you're doing something, I'd be like, "All

Kamayaright, this [ __ ] is just going off." >> Exactly that. It's kind of like I can see where you're going, but I think also the reputation uh or the power dynamics, >> the credibility basically, you know, like how likely are

Mars (USC)you to listen to that? And I hear where you're coming from and that does happen sometimes and they do succeed in their prerogative of destroying whoever it may be, whether it's for valid reasons or for not so valid reasons. But I feel

Mars (USC)that's an anomaly in the typical power structures of the type of relationship you're talking about. you know, like somebody extremely powerful who feels untouchable like Diddy to be honest, you know, and like that whole power

Mars (USC)structure with, >> you know, Cassandra and everyone else was involved. We don't have to get too into that, but >> that's kind of where my mind goes in the most extreme of ways when we're talking about that particular power structure in this history.

Brian Atlas>> There's a lot I I don't know the details of the Diddy case. >> There is alleged abuse and in fact, I mean, he was caught on camera, right, beating this woman? So, it's not just

Brian Atlasalleged. I believe he did. In fact, he wasn't on camera like actually, >> right? So, I mean, there's clear there's clear irrefutable evidence, not just like he did this. No, it's on camera. He

Brian Atlasdid that. >> Um, >> but I I think the principle would still even apply then. uh you you see someone

Brian Atlaslike him and of course he apparently did do really terrible things but

Paulina>> there's just so much his empire is done like the dude's done >> he might get off we don't really we don't live in a system of justice so I

Brian Atlasdon't I don't he might get >> I don't know the details about the case but like reputationally the guy's done for I mean totally done for >> uh Uh, and I I don't know if that's the great example though. I'm not going to

Brian Atlascome to Diddy's defense. I'm trying to think if there is like a recent celebrity. I don't know. Aziz on >> Aziz Onsari. I don't know if you know him. Comedian. This was at like the height of the Me Too movement. He went

Brian Atlason a date with a girl >> and she >> she meed him >> and the the the headline was it was essentially it was a bad date.

Brian Atlas>> Oh. like there's everything was consensual, but she just didn't like the sex, I guess. And she went on and but he kind of it was at the height of the me too. He kind of got a little bit cancelled a

Brian Atlaslittle bit. >> But you read the article, >> she just wasn't really feeling it, >> you know. But she accused him of >> she cons No, but she had consensual.

Brian Atlas>> I think they consent. They had sex. It was consent. Well, yeah. You [ __ ] Aiz, I'm sorry. That's why I thought you got so excited. No, no, no. >> This made me think of something. Has

Zenaanybody been following on TikTok that I'm in love with my psych psychiatrist Kendra? Has anybody been following Kendra? There is this girl on Tik Tok. Wait, this relates to what you were

Zenasaying, but she like has this like almost 30 part series about how her how she's been in love with her psychiatrist and like everything that happened. And like as you're watching it, it's literally nothing. She's in Dulu City. Like like

Zena>> a psychiatrist. Yeah. >> Yeah. And she she's saying stuff like like like there was this one example where she like she like was talking about doing in-person visits because they were meeting on Zoom and she was

Zenalike and she was like, "Oh, can I like have an inerson visit?" And he was like, "No, I don't really do inerson visits. I more do Zoom." And like her interpretation of that was, "Oh, he doesn't want me there because he knows that if I'm there, there's going to be

Zenaso much tension in the room that we're just going to like each other's clothes off." And it was like like she was saying like stuff like that and then she was like the entire time he kept up his boundaries. He just couldn't let himself go with me. And like when you watch you

Zenacan tell that >> none of it existed. I'm Wait, is that what happened? >> Like like like what she's saying it's just him. It's just him putting up boundaries. like like like he's not reciprocating anything. And she's saying it as she's like explaining. He's like,

Zena"I love his boundaries, but like he's in love with me and he's been stringing me along." >> But nothing she's saying is corroborating that. >> But that type of behavior we need to get better at calling out, though, cuz that's like >> Yeah, people were and then and then she turned off the comments. But I've been

Mars (USC)following >> I mean, the whole thing is like I I haven't kept up with whatever and I just walked into this conversation, but it's her being in love with her psychiatrist, right? Is that what you So clearly she's mentally ill. That's like an established HD.

Paulina>> She's infatuated. >> Yeah. >> Sounds like it's [ __ ] for clicks. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, it worked. We're talking about it. >> It came to mind for you, babe. >> Have you guys seen this girl? She's on

PaulinaTikTok. She's gone. She's like a serial dater. And she goes on dates every couple days. She's not married. It's been a few years she's been going on dates. And people are like, "Are you really dating or is this just fake

Paulinavideos?" [ __ ] Have you guys seen it? She's like in New York and she's dating multiple. She's I'm going on this date. I'm going on my date. >> I would put money that she asked Chad GPT for like interesting video. >> It might be something like that. >> The only The only person I've seen

Zenathat's like remotely close to that is this dude named Ryan. Have you seen like the hey girl videos? >> Yeah. >> No, I haven't read them. >> Hey girls. >> He has like insane stories where like he throws parties at his house and like he hooks up with all these girls and like

Zenahe goes on TikTok and like tells like story times about it and like he does he does that too. But like sometimes I feel like you might be capping. >> Someone capping. The minute the minute we started monetizing like [ __ ] on

Ellie / Jamiethe internet is like the minute that we saw this steep steep decline in like I mean like it's it's insane. Nobody's >> I mean I try to get offline. I don't I

Mars (USC)don't even watch TV anymore. >> I'm not I'm not public. I mean in our very private >> in our culture obviously rage bait thrives on social media people everything's chaotic people play

Mars (USC)character which is very interesting but it's so hard to I am a content creator and I don't know social media is just such an oversaturated market I feel like how do you stand out without being authentic? I don't know. >> We're losing our authenticity. It's

Ellie / Jamie[ __ ] >> It's [ __ ] >> Yeah. I totally agree. But we're but we're selling our authenticity for clips >> and monies and notoriety and celebrity and it's like

Mars (USC)>> you could be living you could be living a much better life without all of that [ __ ] >> Yeah. I mean we weren't humans weren't created to live this way but that's our society and you know I am simply a pawn

Ellie / Jamiein this game of life. >> No you can you can do what you do because you can be an example to other people. I think. Can you elaborate on that?

Brian Atlas>> All right. Anyways, moving on. >> I'm just the hag next. >> Quick quick couple chats here. Uh, thank you. Looks like you purchased a t-shirt. Thank you so much, man. Appreciate it.

Ellie / JamieThank you. Thank you. And then we do have Dross coming in here. Ellie, could you read this one for us? >> 38 in dating. Most of the women in my age range are girl bosses, aka someone who doesn't need a man. How likely is someone to walk away when they've spent their life believing men are

Mars (USC)supplemental? >> Pretty likely. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Just, you know, I think when you want to date a highquality woman who doesn't necessarily need a man, you just need to try to make her life easier in

Ellie / Jamiewhatever regard that means. >> What makes her high quality if she doesn't need a man? Like what are the the characteristics that a highquality woman has who doesn't need a man? This is me personally and this is not

Mars (USC)affiliated with any political stance. This is just my mantra of life. I think that a high quality human being is just someone who tries to be a positive impact on the people around them and who are passionate and driven and they're

Mars (USC)working toward their goals whether they're going to school or they have an established career. They're just driven and motivated and they're respectful. >> But specifically a woman.

Mars (USC)>> Well, I I think that applies to all people. Um, I don't have a specific, oh, this is what women have to do to be high quality versus men. We could have a conversation about gender roles if we

Mars (USC)want to get into that, but I think I just meant more highquality person. If this um commenter had something more specific in terms of >> the type of women he's talking about, I

Paulinathink I would love you guys, too. >> I'm not about feminism at all. I've been anti-feminist since high school. um because it's really destroyed dating and getting married and having

Paulinakids. It's >> Why do you think that? >> Because um an unequal society is what I would call a safe society. I what I understand about feminism, it's a civil rights movement in the west. I mean,

Paulinait's kind of a global issue. Um I call it cancer. Um because it it creates it it plates off of the natural inclination

Paulinafor women to be corrupt. It's a very corrupt ideology. >> Did you read Rachel's book? >> Which which book? No. Then >> ault feminism. >> Occult feminism. >> No, I haven't. >> I'm probably plugging

Paulina>> and the reason why I've been anti-feminist since high school. Um because again I'm a product of One. Go ahead. Go ahead. Hold on.

PaulinaUm, what was I saying? Um, women have a particular innate capabilities that can make them very corrupt and manipulative. And I noticed with feminism, it really magnifies that because it actually calls

Paulinait a civil rights movement in the West. And it's a fake civil rights movement in the in the West, but it really just ends up becoming a big government situation, which is what most civil rights movements in the West is all about. It's

Paulinanot really about your civil rights. Doesn't really it's not an inequality thing because we have equal rights. Um, but I'm at the point now where I'm like, less rights for women the better because it's actually becoming such a cancerous

Paulinasociety. It's destroying family and tradition. And I'm very patri patriarchal. I appreciate the patriarchy. Hold on. I want to hear it. >> Hold on. Hold on before I let you come in. >> Yeah. >> Uh you were making a face when she was

Brian Atlastalking about not liking feminism or whatever. >> Uh a lot of you were actually grimacing. So I'll give you guys all a chance to >> uh I state your disagreements, I guess. Go ahead.

Heidi>> I'm a content creator that focuses on fashion and beauty content. I support women empowerment. All my audience is women. Like 80% of my audience is women.

HeidiUm, I'm very much for women empowerment, like making sure women like feel like they should be able to be independent. They don't need a man, like they can

Heidihave a successful job and career without relying on a man. A man should be able to support you and support your dreams and careers and aspirations without

Heidibringing you down. I don't think anybody technically needs a man to do any of that. I do. >> We need them. We really do. >> You can want one, but I don't think a

Heidiwoman needs one. Like, I am financially independent. Always have been since I was the age of 15. I've always had a job, always knew how to work, knew how to pay my bills. Like, I never needed

Heidiany support from anyone, including my family. Like, I didn't need that aspect. So, without women's rights, like, are you saying that women shouldn't be able to be successful? Like, I want to be a

Heidisuccessful woman. I want to be a girl boss. Like I want to live my life the way I want to live it. I don't want it to rely on what a man wants me to do. >> Do you want kids or marriage or anything like that?

Heidi>> I want to be married, but I don't want kids cuz I I'm just not a person that finds a need for I just don't like children. I worked at an amusement park

Heidifor a long time. I worked at a mall for a long time. Like I just don't like >> getting married if you're >> to be happy. Like I just want the purpose of marriage is literally the point of marriage is to have kids to be

Mars (USC)fair. I thought the point of marriage is to have a life partner. >> You can have kids outside. >> Some people are in in what do you think about that? >> You can have kids outside of marriage. You can stay with somebody for your

Heidiwhole life without marriage. But um Okay. So you don't want kids though. >> Yeah. >> I just don't see the point. Like >> I want to be happy with somebody. I want to have like a partner that supports me through everything I do. I want to support them through everything that

Heidithey do. At the end of the day, we build each other up. I personally want to like I want to have a wedding. Like that is a fantasy of mine. Like I want to get married. I want to have a wedding. Like >> see you want to get you want to have the

Paulinawedding. >> You you want to have the marriage. Wait. Oh, how's that? >> It's the It's the show of it. It's the fantasy of it. >> The wedding. It's not the actual unus

Brian Atlasnot all men want. >> But you said the wedding is the fantasy. What about the marriage specifically absent your own desires? Like what is the purpose of the marriage? >> Like the supporting one another and having that bondage

Heidiabsent marriage. >> But you said you don't need a man. >> I don't need a man. I can support myself while I want. want something and not need it. >> We want makeup, but we don't need it. >> I don't need it

Heidi>> to be honest. >> Sorry. That's the difference. Like there's a want and then there's a need. I don't need a man to be who I am. I can want a man and I do want a man, but I don't need >> Okay, who else disagreed with her? Do you disagree?

Elizabeth>> I'm kind of on the same wavelength of as her because it's like I mean I don't need a man, but I want one. Like I I moved across the country like by myself and found a place within the two days. I

Brian Atlasdidn't need a man to do that. >> Okay. Really quick, I just saw your tattoo. Can you sh >> It's a heart and a Q. What is that? >> It's a queen of hearts. >> Oh, I thought it was like Qanon or some [ __ ] Okay, that's cool. >> How does one become a queen?

Mars (USC)>> Um >> you already are. I would be surprised with what she said. Yeah. I I particularly am, you know, stuck on your claim that you think women

Mars (USC)should have less rights. Yes. >> What does that mean? >> Um I don't think they should vote. >> You don't think women should vote? >> Not at all. >> Women are they make up a lot?

PaulinaI don't I don't necessarily believe that women should tell you. I'm going to tell you my take on this. It's kind of simple for me. >> Um because I'm going to sound like a hypocrite. I voted my first, you know, twice. >> Okay.

Paulina>> But I started getting into feminism and how it's really corrupted and how women in government really corrupt it. There's a corruption straight. I'm sorry.

Paulina>> And in my view with voting, you know, prior to women voting, men, land owners were voting. They had a stake in the game. But as soon as we gave women the right to vote, um, they have a

Mars (USC)proclivity to be being commies >> because it's innate to their nature. speaking to >> I I understand I think the generalization that is making you make that claim, but I have seen the

Mars (USC)statistics and I think perhaps the women that aren't voting in alignment to your values and morals are uneducated women and uneducated people in general. I

Mars (USC)think there should be perhaps a basis level and I know that education is not accessible for everybody in our country but for you know our government to function in the way that is going to be

Mars (USC)best for our society. I think that there should be a base level of education because recently there's been a lot of uneducated people who have been voting and those are the people who are been

Mars (USC)showing up and showing out >> and I think that maybe those people don't align with your morals and values not all women. I think that's kind of

Mars (USC)crazy cuz there's a lot of dumb men who are voting and just to take away educated women's ability to vote. I don't think that's fair. overeducating ourselves in the west. It's actually an

Paulinaovereducation and not as it's actually more simple. Um, sorry. >> Does that not feel like almost regressive though that thought process and I understand it's traditional. >> No, no, no, you're fine. Um, it is

Paulinaregressive in the right ways. Um, I'm I I appreciate an imbalanced society where women are not at the helm. when a when a society is declining, we're putting women on the helm of that ship. And men

Paulinareally have to guide it into stability. Now, I'm not a fan of men who are kind of like feminists, too. There's a lot of guys that are feminists, and they're also a liability to what I would like to see as a traditional, safe, and civil

Paulinasociety, you know. So, it's not just women. A lot of guys are actually allowing this to unfold. And it's very problematic. >> Did you know that guys actually allowed women the right to vote? Aren't they so nice?

Paulina>> Absolute mess. >> Actually, no. Most most women really weren't like for all. >> We're not even designed for It's It's actually a stressful world to get into politics, especially for women. It causes a lot of stress on women, too.

Ellie / JamieAnd it's like less stress the better. >> I know. I I did not vote the first I think like one or two times that I could. Um, but I have, but like going

Ellie / Jamieback to like those years where I could have voted but did not. I like I didn't know what I was doing. That's you though. I know that's a lot. A lot of other women majority. That is

Mars (USC)>> Well, okay. Sure. But do you not feel the minority of women who are educated and who do enjoy taking part of our democratic process should be able to vote? You don't think they should have

Paulinathat choice? You really don't think so just cuz they don't agree with you. >> That comes into No, not even that. It comes into question if it's really a democratic process. It's an absolute disaster. The democratic process >> becomes tribalism.

Paulina>> But tribalism is normal. It's innate to human nature to kind of become in our own tribe, but um yeah, it's not really a democratic process. It's also why >> you had something also you wanted to touch on from a couple minutes ago.

Zena>> Yeah. What she said. >> What was I going to say? Oh, yeah. Okay. So, I completely get what you're saying and like a and like a unique I guess maybe because I come from a household where like my mom and my dad were high school sweethearts. Good for them.

Zena>> He unfortunately passed when I was younger. So my mom had raised me and my sisters and my brother and stuff. So like what makes the question I have for you is do you think that after like my

Zenadad had died do you think that my mom should have found another man because like in traditional sense like that's >> no that's not no that that was totally out of her control. She didn't walk away from him. >> So >> you know that that was totally out of

Paulinaher control. >> So if she would have walked away from him it wouldn't have been okay for her to be a single mom. I'm just trying to understand. >> Well, she made the choice and now she has to suffer as a single mom. You know, having a two parent household makes a

Paulinaworld of a difference raising children, especially young sons. You know, they need their fathers, but girls need their fathers, too. >> I think being married is a huge deal. >> It makes a hu It's actually such a blessing to be married.

Paulina>> It's dangerous to be in a cohabitation situation. >> Single mother households can be dangerous, too, because the women are so exhausted raising kids by themselves. They might even put children in a

Paulinadangerous situation just for their comfort level, you know, and that kind of thing is a liability to the children. You know, a lot of convicts, they're actually products of single mothers. It's a fact. >> Go for it.

Elizabeth>> An unpleasant fact. >> For almost 21 years of my life, aside from, you know, my mom, we she has another baby. He's seven. Um I didn't

Elizabethhave any really father figure and she's a an amazing real estate agent. Like she is so successful, so successful. >> And I mean like she's been in a relationship with my I guess my

Elizabethstepfather. I mean I could consider it my dad, but I didn't need any man in my life to be like you know like do like sports and all that like just teach me things. I didn't need that. It's not >> I was with my I was with my mom every

Elizabethsecond and there was all the times I didn't need her but she was always working and I was with her everywhere. She didn't leave me alone at home. My my dad actually did that. >> So it can go both ways but my mom was you know to say like they turn into

Elizabethfelons and all this stuff. My mom was the most successful woman ever. It's not everybody >> and she didn't need she still doesn't need the man that she's with but she's with him because she loves him but they're not married. They've been together for like 9 years. But like, you

Elizabethknow, I wouldn't say that, oh, they turn into felons or convicts and that's, you know, a dangerous household. My father was actually more dangerous than it's just a reality. >> It's also statistic that people with two

Zenaparents household usually have like abuse in the home or like mommy or daddy is. >> No, that's not statistic. But it can also be but just as it's statistically that like just as it's statistically

Zenathat like people with like single mothers are prone to like be felons or convicts. That's the same thing that people that come from a two parent household. >> No, of course it happens. And there's two parent households that have, you

Paulinaknow, Jeffrey Dmers. It happens, you know, but that's not the high statistic. The high statistic is, you know, this is just the >> It actually causes an identity crisis, especially for young men. you know, they

Paulinaneed their fathers to know who they are. >> Women can't really train teach guys how to be men. >> So, what about single fathers? >> Um, it's it's kind of a rare that's a more rare situation because well, guys

Paulinaare truly what I understand is they're less likely to walk away from a relationship. They'll even suffer in the relationship to save it. >> You think they're more likely than women to do that? >> Yes. >> Are there stats I can look at for that?

Mars (USC)And also, I just wanted to say your claim as well, how um abuse in two parent households isn't as common. A lot of that is not documented or reported. So I think that's just something to acknowledge.

Brian Atlas>> There's Wouldn't it also not be documented in one parent households also? >> I don't think she was referring to abuse. It was a different statistic. Statistics on that we can pull >> in any scenario where you say well in

Brian Atlasthis scenario it's not documented. Well then by extension it also would not be documented in the other circumstances. abuse is documented generally. But she's making the argument. Yeah. But

Brian Atlas>> she's right in the sense that yes, some crimes or some abuse is not documented, but that would apply across the board. >> Mhm. Yeah, I hear you. I think we were comparing two different statistics

Mars (USC)though. It was um kids who become felons in single parent households versus abuse in two parent households. So, I see what you're saying, but it was two different measures that we were

Brian Atlas>> Well, I think the stat is is that people who come from one parent households, uh, what what the stats show is that they're more likely to, uh, there might there's

Paulinamore likely to be, uh, criminals. >> Yeah. Well, here's the thing. I mean, single parenthood, single motherhood is really put on a pedestal in our society. It's it's actually cancerous to society

Paulinabecause you procreated with this man and now he's this evil guy that you have to run away from, but the child is a reflection of this man. You know, you can't run away

Paulinafrom that. Um, so I I obviously what I'm saying is not a sense of every case of single parents. Um, but it's really hard on kids because they kind of end up

Paulinaresenting the single mothers >> for this behavior because there's most of the time there's a selfish behavior on the single mother's part to leave. >> They don't want to sit and actually work something out. >> Just try to be straight at the mic if you can.

Brian Atlas>> Uh, we're going to let a couple chats come through. We have Ellie here is going to >> Just so we all know, chair five is the star of the show. Also, >> wait, that here, read this one. Chair five. The

Ellie / Jamiepower of Christ compels you. The power of Christ compels you. She's possessed. She will climb walls soon and heads will start doing 360. >> Who's chair five? Is that me? >> That's her. That's >> Oh, that's you.

Brian Atlas>> Chair five is Ellie. Yeah. >> Oh, I think I'm kind of resembling the ring girl right now. >> A little bit. >> Bang's got to be >> banging. >> Um, all right. Don't do it. Don't [ __ ]

Ellie / Jamieup your flow. Um, all right. Read this one from Josh. Thank you, Josh. What is everyone's take on trauma dumping or trauma bonding as a main source of connection in a relationship? If the guy

Zenareciprocates it, is it healthy? Should you date with unresolved trauma? >> This guy doesn't know what trauma dumping is. Trauma bombing bonding is >> I think um trauma dumping and trauma

Zenabonding for Does everybody know what that is? >> Yeah, this guy. >> Different. Yeah, they're very different. Very. >> Yeah, they're Well, well, no. I I mean like does like >> trauma dumping? >> Yeah. Like I was going to I was going to explain it. That's why I was asking so I

Zenacould just >> explation. >> But like I think like I think like trauma dumping can be situational. I think sometimes like like somebody could

Zenabe like in like real like distress and just like really need that. >> I feel like there's a fine line between that. I think trauma bonding while it can be good in a moment, I feel like it's nice to know that there is a shelf

Zenalife for it. Like sometime sometimes a trauma bond could be something that you need in that moment to heal and like and like like not not saying all trauma bonds are like good. I've had toxic trauma bonds just as much as the next person.

Zena>> Trauma bonding is I think >> but I have had a trauma bond where that person kind of like we healed each other and then we went our separate ways amicably. So I feel like there is a possibility to trauma bond with somebody and heal from it.

Zena>> What is your definition of trauma bond? >> Um like you have a shared experience that was extremely traumatic and because of that you have a newfound friendship and or relationship because of it. >> Bonding over trauma. If you trauma bond

Paulinayou are like literally inflicting trauma on this person and then rolling it back so that they're bonded to you. actually two way. There's it's actually

Brian Atlascreating intimacy based on your your shared traumas. >> That's how I got. >> It could be that. No, it could be that. It could be your thing, but it could also just be two people

Brian Atlas>> who they're not inflicting it >> upon each other or one person is not inflicting it on the other. They go through a a traumatic experience together and that would be a trauma bonding experience.

Brian Atlas>> I think that's right. And I'm going to fact check that after the show. >> It's like a set thing as it relates to this. It could be all of the above. It could be what you said. It could be what I said. It could be um somebody said I

Paulinadon't know if you said something else on that. >> No, I just said that it's two people that come with their own traumas and they have an intimate relationship that really bonds them based on those traumas. It creates intimacy. >> I think >> I don't want to hear a girl's trauma

Brian Atlasuntil >> she's trauma. He hasn't farted in front of me. >> Oh, >> it should be never. >> [ __ ] never. A girl should never fart. >> Disgusting. Hold on. Hold on.

Brian Atlas>> So, I just want to say one sec. We'll get there. Hold on. I want to say this. If If it's too soon for you to fart in front of me, it's too soon for you to be telling me about your [ __ ] I don't want to hear it. Don't tell me about

Brian Atlasyour [ __ ] trauma. And definitely never fart in front of me. So, in other words, don't tell me about your [ __ ] trauma. >> What's a fart? >> You don't. She doesn't know. I have no idea. >> Chad, what do you guys think? Chad, don't you don't you agree? Like, if if

Kamayashe would be uncomfortable farting in front of you, she definitely should not be telling you her trauma. >> Facts, bro. >> I've had new co-workers coming out the gate. >> You don't believe that your your girl should fart in front of you. >> Correct.

Brian Atlas>> Ever. >> Uh, ever. >> Even after marriage, babe. >> I get, you know, look, she had she had some Mexican food. Whatever. I get it. Maybe. Maybe. But like, >> holy freak, holy.

Brian Atlas>> Honestly, honestly, that [ __ ] that's just gonna be that's a if it's less than a year and she's already farting, it's over. >> It's like you're dating your bro. >> She needs to wait at least

Brian Atlas>> 12 months. >> And even then, like even then, like a year into the relationship, if she starts farting, >> are you going to ghost her?

Brian Atlas>> Breakup text. Look, if it was if it's one time, give me a couple weeks and I'll get over it. >> What's the reason? >> If you give me a couple weeks, I can get over it. What do you mean the reason, bro? Some of y'all diets are all [ __ ]

Brian Atlasup and [ __ ] I don't know that women farts are on another level. She has IBS. >> Another [ __ ] level, bro. >> I'm telling you though, but what I'm saying is as it relates to this trauma

Brian Atlasstuff, >> so that's a form of Sorry. If it's too soon to fart in front of your boyfriend, it's too soon to share your traumatic past with him. >> So farting in front of your boyfriend is

Kamayaa form of trauma dumping. >> It is traumatic for the man >> to dump that trauma in your in your stomach. >> As a man, it is very traumatic. >> You So if your if your girl farted in front of you,

Mars (USC)>> you would not want to have sex after that. >> That would turn you off that much. What if she's like the baddest? What if she like the baddest [ __ ] like this planet's ever seen? >> She's a five now. If she farts and she

Mars (USC)farts in front of you over the one year mark, she's a five. >> She's a five in the moment. >> No, she's a zero in the moment. And then >> I actually just got a whiff of something. I don't know something.

Brian AtlasSomeone says >> she can climb back up to a seven though after a couple months. >> But she's perma just downgrade. down his text message broken up with you by then. >> The uh what's the other thing?

Brian Atlas>> It's an unforgivable offense. >> Well, there it's also is it if it's a noisy fart cuz sometimes it's just silent and deadly. >> Deadly. >> See, I recently got a cat and that cat

Brian Atlasfarts. It's >> a cat. You're on. This cat has been just I uh Felicity back here gave me some cat food. I blame Felicity, honestly. What are you feeding

Brian Atlasit? >> The cat is farts really and it's gross. >> What's the diet? >> Like she farts so bad it clears a room. The cat >> or something like over there. >> I don't know what it is, but she

Brian AtlasFelicity got me some cat food and now her farts are all [ __ ] up. >> Oh man. Well, I can help you with that. >> This is my first cat admiration. I got a cat and I'm telling you, uh

KamayaI I used to look at this cat with admiration, but now I'm just kind of regretting my choice now because I'm just kidding. >> Are you trolling right now? >> Uh, about the cat? Yes. About women? No. >> But if you can't if you can't fart in

Paulinafront of your man or your woman, how do you expect to do anything? >> Women don't fart. >> We don't do that, you guys. I'm not saying I have farting contests in the morning. Like, that's like, come on, guys. Get a fairy.

Brian Atlas>> Here's what women Here's what women should do. If you if you got a fart and say you're we're kicking it, you got to go into another room. >> You're joking. >> Maybe outside even. But go outside. Go

Brian Atlasoutside. I don't care if it's hailing. It's [ __ ] below freezing. Go outside. You got to as women, you got to go outside. Fart out there. >> What about you? >> You can do whatever you want. >> Tell a funny story about this.

Brian Atlas>> Oh, within a couple weeks, I'm just >> letting I'm letting them rip. >> I'm letting them rip in front of a girl with the first couple dates. No, but like after we've

Paulina>> Yeah. Like after a couple weeks. >> You're You're even self-conscious about it. >> After a couple weeks. Yeah. You just let him rip. Wait, so it's okay for you to do it, but not for her? >> Yes, I believe in double standards. >> You think that's a little immature? I agree with your double standards. I'm

Mars (USC)all about a little amateur. >> I think it's immature for a woman to fart. >> You don't think it's unrealistic? So rude. That's so immature. >> It's really immature for light to fart. Maybe after blowing up the bathroom. >> Maybe it's not classy. I don't know if

Brian Atlasimmature is the right word. >> It's rude and disrespectful. It shows a lack of self-control. >> It's not ladylike. Yes, you're undisiplined. It's not ladylike. Uh, but you know, look,

Brian Atlas>> yeah, it's a double standard. Double standard. It is what it is. >> I'm gonna hope that you're drawing on that one. There just there's just no way. >> This is a great way for you to tell us that you're just dropping massive

Brian Atlas>> parts. I do not care. >> So, so here, tell us, admit it on the internet that you just fart all the time in front of your boyfriend. >> I don't care. I do. >> Do you fart on his like you'll go up to

Kamayahim? Does she fart on his like Loft the air towards you. >> Oh yeah, she just crawling. >> I will do a little twirl the air into I

Kamayawill lift my leg up into >> lift your leg up. This is >> I can do this. >> I don't know. No, seriously. I don't I don't know why that's such a big deal. I

Kamayadon't I drops gross. >> I never and I think maybe because we're so comfortable and also I do work in the medical field. I feel like >> Can I ask you a question? Look, look, I'll try to It's not going to be a perfect onetoone comparison. It's kind of like this.

Brian Atlas>> All right, >> imagine uh you were how I'll throw out a couple scenarios and you tell me how it would maybe

Brian Atlaschange the dynamic that you have with your your uh boyfriend or you're engaged, right? Your fiance. >> Yes, ma'am. Sorry. Okay. >> Yes, ma'am. Thank you. No need to know

Brian Atlasyou. >> You are kicking it with your boyfriend/ fiance, >> right? >> And he sees a spider and he lets out a shrill. >> Oh, >> uh, scream.

Kamaya>> Oh, well, >> it's like getting the deal breaker. >> Would you lose a bit of something? Would you be like, >> my boyfriend or my fiance? He's a 6'5.

Brian AtlasVery big dude. I'm Yeah. I'm saying he So he he is scared of spiders. >> No. >> I'm saying if he did do that though. >> Uhhuh.

Kamaya>> Would you be like uh >> um maybe in the moment, but like not like it wouldn't ru it wouldn't drop him down from it's five to a zero like

Kamayayou're saying and never crazy. And you're also also farts are not something that you can control. Everybody does it. Not everybody is afraid of spiders, but everybody farts. >> Sometimes control. >> Unless you're sleepy. You can control it. You cannot control. >> That's why I insist she sleeps in the

Brian Atlasother room. >> My mom says gas will kill you. >> My mom says all the time, "Gas will kill you." >> What if What if your boyfriend >> I don't know if this is realistic, but [ __ ] whatever. Here's a scenario.

Brian Atlas>> Just go. >> Your boyfriend uh he started talking like this. Oh my god, that is like so amazing. I

Heidi>> But that's still >> what you got horny all of a sudden? >> No. Like I actually have like a guy that does do that and I just think it's funny. I'm like queen. He'll call me girly pop. No, but like he just likes cuz that's how I am and he's like

Heidi>> me. Okay, I'll take a look. >> Like he just knows that's how I am and he's like just thinks it's funny. So I'm like, "Yeah, like it is funny." Like so when he does it I'm just like, "Oh, like this is so funny cuz I know who you are.

Ellie / JamieI know who you are. I was joking like it just pisses everyone trauma dumping. Okay. >> Oh my god, this is like so dumb, you guys. Like

Brian Atlas>> totally >> like >> All right, we have uh Hold on. Not this one, Ellie, but I'm going to have you read. >> Hey, thanks Thomas. >> Shout out to my home sliced donut. Shout out donut. >> Donut.

Ellie / Jamie>> That's my home. >> All right, this one. >> Thank you. Men and women don't have unique roles. There is no logical reason for one to find and keep the other. Lack

Ellie / Jamieof purpose is why we're stuck with hookups and divorces. Also, men need to have a role. >> You believe in gender roles? >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> So, you do believe in gender roles? >> I do. I do. I do believe in gender

Mars (USC)roles, but just not to the extremity that you two do. And, you know, I have nothing but respect in hearing your perspective and viewpoint. I'm just not as far in that. I think that

Mars (USC)in every function like a family for example I think about it almost like a business in the sense that everyone has their role to fill >> and I think that as women we have

Mars (USC)estrogen men have testosterone I think that we are biologically just better for certain tasks now that's not me saying that I think we should eliminate the reality of choice such as if women want

Mars (USC)to vote I believe that they should even if you know biologically because of our hormones and estrogen maybe women are better caretakers than men. I think that

Mars (USC)is kind of just a biological truth but that doesn't mean I think all women should only be caretakers and they only belong in the kitchen and they should have no other aspirations. >> Yeah, I agree with you. >> I agree with that too. >> Well, women do have free will and the right the right to choose. That's

Paulinawithout question. >> Yes. Yes. >> But what's but what's kind of meaningful is is the question you have to ask yourself. You know what what's meaningful? >> I'm sorry. What? You missed something? >> I thought another bird got in.

Mars (USC)>> Yeah, I heard a little something over there earlier. >> No, another time. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. How about How about you guys? How do you guys feel about gender roles in our society, in our world? >> You know, my view.

Kamaya>> I do. I think >> anyone else wants to talk. I I'm sorry. >> No, you can go first. >> I'm actually going to >> use the facility. >> I am going to agree with Mars on this. I think that everybody in the house has

Kamayatheir role. Whether that and I literally everything you just said. Um I personally I have felt more in my feminine era with my my my fiance because he's allowed me to be like that. >> Yeah. Exactly. The right partner will

Kamayabring that out for women. >> Yeah. But I understand that's not everybody's reality. So and kind of going back to what we were talking about earlier is feminism. I think feminism gives you the right to choose which one

Paulinayou want. If you want one or the other that's fine. But I don't think it's just up to you. It's really up to you. It's all about choice. >> Yes. >> I have a question for you guys um about

Paulinafemininity and masculinity. Do you do you find with women who are taking these masculine roles are do you think they're safe within themselves being in a more masculine role? >> Actually, can can you elaborate on that question? What do you mean safe within

Paulinathemselves? Like they know who they are type of. Do they feel safety within themselves taking on a masculine role and kind of going into a more male-dominated area if it might not be innate to what they would do or

Zena>> I would say as somebody who identifies as gender fluid and sometimes pushes into those masculine roles specifically when I'm like dating women I feel like I

Zenaam very like I feel like I'm more confident in a way of it's not something that I'm particularly not necessarily used to but not something that I that I

Zenapush into like like often. So when I do, I feel like a different kind of confidence. and not only confidence but established within myself of like not

Zenaonly do I know who I am but I'm so secure in who I am that I can wear whatever I want, do whatever I want, fit whatever roles that I want with no like

Zenaanxiety of the judgment that comes around me because I know who I am inside >> like as like like just to like like I

Paulinafeel like that's really like I'm secure. So with femininity um do do you guys feel like it's easy for you to be feminine >> does it feel >> with the right partner

Paulina>> with the right so it's kind of situational >> so without that if it's situational you take more of a masculine role >> which is kind of I would imagine means there you have a lack of safety >> within yourself that's what I'm trying

Paulinato I'm noticing >> can you define masculine role >> so masculinity you know um because women are in, you know, feminism has uh

Paulinacreated this masculinity amongst women where they actually have to now go into male spaces and be in a more masculine environment and taking on a masculine aura. >> Okay. >> You know, um but what I understand with

Paulinafemininity since it seems to be like a lost art these days is actually to be feminine. There's there's a sense of safety in being feminine. >> Yeah. >> You know, and to relax and to let go and not be stressed about doing nineto-fives and doing all these things that are

Kamayameaningless. turn your bra to be feminine is like just like you said with your your fiance, you feel safe. >> I Yeah, but I also think like me cuz I'm I feel like I'm a little more masculine. Well, that's why I chose my partner cuz

Kamayahe's he's more masculine than I am obviously. So, he kind of like >> helps me bring my femininity out. >> But I also feel like being masculine, I've had to do that sometimes to kind of be taken seriously.

Kamaya>> Yes. And I know that's that might be a little weird, but sometimes I have to bring more of an aura to the table because if you don't, you're going to get eaten alive. You're going to get shut down.

Mars (USC)>> Especially being a business woman and you know, obviously male dominated fields, you have to make sure that your voice is being heard. And sometimes the only way you can do that and get the respect that a man will get, not only

Mars (USC)the, you know, admiration, oh, she's so pretty, whatever, but actually you're hearing what I'm saying and you're recognizing that I'm intelligent. You have to be a little bit more blunt and a little bit more masculine and be a little less tapped into your femininity

Mars (USC)to get that necessary respect in the world of business, you know, not just in the societal >> Sorry, >> structure. You're fine. Go ahead. >> I was going to say I don't see how you >> can't do that. It like you're in these

Paulinamale-dominated spaces. How are you supposed to compete if you're >> if you're not even like in the same >> box? Do you think Oh, sorry. Are you good? You're fine. Go ahead. Sorry. No, you're fine.

Paulina>> No, I I was going to say is do you think that women behaving more masculine, less feminine because femininity is more safety? Some people might align more with masculinity, but it's actually more chaotic and less innate to women that

Paulinaare safe within themselves. >> But do you think that the masculinity response is like a trauma response? >> I think it's just a learned response in art and from society, from history. Men

Mars (USC)dominate the government, a lot of businesses, a lot of fields that women have aspirations of breaking into. So it's what else can you do except for

Ellie / Jamielearn from the past and the past is male ccentric. >> I thought there were more women in government nowadays. >> Now there is Oh, there's a lot of women in government. >> Historically now, unfortunately. >> Yeah, historically no. But they also had

Ellie / Jamiethings that they were doing like within the world of like politicking and all of that like behind the scenes too. >> Yes. But that's cuz they did not have the choice. >> They had the choice. Look at Susan B. Anthony,

Mars (USC)>> you know. >> And what does she have to do to get there? >> I mean, >> you know what she do to get there? >> Exactly. >> I don't know. What does she have to do? >> Yeah. Tell us what >> for what you were saying too in terms of

Mars (USC)femininity. I think that at least for me, and I would love to hear your guys's perspectives, too. I heard a lot of situational and circumstantial um circumstances when you want to tap into

Mars (USC)your femininity. But for me, I think yes, I acknowledge that I'm young. I'm only 20, but I've gone through a lot of life experience that makes me feel pretty secure in who I am. I feel that I know who I am, and I'm sure I will discover who I am as the years go on

Mars (USC)continuously. >> 10 years makes a difference, >> for sure. And I totally agree with that. But I feel that my security in knowing who I am kind of allows me the comfort

Mars (USC)and space to fall more into my femininity than maybe I did when I was a angsty tomboyish middle schooler, you know, >> but now I feel that I have more I have

Mars (USC)myself figured out more, my values figured out more. Um, I I believe that I have a sense of masculine energy almost just because again the whole businesswoman thing, but I feel very tapped into my femininity and how I

Ellie / Jamiepresent. >> Um, you can, >> can you read this? >> Pa, how did you know about this? Pa >> situationships mean that they do not respect your time or your agency. Stop giving excuses. Dump them. Women should

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