Feminist RAGE QUITS Before Show?! Catholic Pro-Choice Bi Leftist?! Grandma BACK! | Dating Talk #250

Date: 2025-07-07

Duration: 9h 19m

Guests

Brian Atlas

MMaddie (Porn)>

JJosie Marcelino >

EEmily (Coach DT250)>

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_01Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_03Emily (Coach DT250)(guest)

SPEAKER_05Lucy (Data)(guest)

SPEAKER_06Marcelina(guest)

SPEAKER_07Holly (62)(guest)

SPEAKER_08Josie Marcelino(guest)

SPEAKER_09Mandy (Iran)(guest)

SPEAKER_10Maddie (Porn)(guest)

SPEAKER_13Eleanor(guest)

Key Moments

IntroAll 8 guests introduced

Key MomentMaddie: pays $170K alimony to first husband from 1-year marriage

Key MomentJosie: kidnapped on date at 20, stole truck, drove 100mph to escape

Key MomentMarcelina: ex put loaded gun to her head, doused car in acid, killed a girl, now in prison

ControversyMandy: explosive rant blaming feminism and weak men for societal decline

Topics Discussed

Guest Introductions

Including Mandy (Iran/Vancouver stripper with 3 properties) and Holly (62, Jackass Forever).

Maddie Alimony

Pays $170K total alimony to first husband from 1-year marriage.

Sex Work Discussion

Mandy: 'this shit sucks.' Advocates against sex work.

Male Loneliness Epidemic

Emily raises topic. Panel discusses causes.

Josie Kidnapping Story

Kidnapped on date at 20. Stole attacker's truck. Drove 100mph.

Marcelina Gun to Head

Ex put loaded gun to her head. Doused car in acid. Killed a girl. Now in prison.

Racism Definitions

Lucy argues only those with institutional power can be racist.

Transcript

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Emily (Coach DT250)violence. And if that's the case, I think they should specify more. But like I I'll run it up the chain. I I have a question for you. Like um I'm just seriously curious and openminded. How about this feeling? Sorry. Okay. Okay. Go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah. I'm sincerely like I'm just

Emily (Coach DT250)open-minded about this because this is a topic I'm still debating on myself which is um that section though is only 1/4 of the different definition. So in your opinion how much of the one in four statistic is affected by that particular

Brian Atlasgroup of people who may be misidentifying threats for it might actually be in there if you're just asking me off the top of my head. I don't I don't know. Okay.

Brian AtlasI don't know. But I do think that uh I don't know. I just think it's a little uh seems like a little unfair to just basically say men are apex predators.

Brian AtlasSo, I'm trying to push some degree of like uh dispute to men apex predators. Men bad. We're not saying men bad. You're citing Yeah, you kind of are.

Brian AtlasWe're not saying men bad. So, this is the video that we're going to get into. Sexual coercion. Feeling pressured by being lied to. That's very vague. Now, there are some,

Brian Atlasfor example, there are crimes like if you pretend to be somebody's spouse, absolutely that's essay. Like, if the lights are off and you get into somebody else's bed and you pretend that you're the spouse or whatever and the woman

Brian Atlasthinks that it's actually somebody else, that's 100% essay. That's lying. Um I think there's also uh if you lie about like your uh STD

Brian Atlasstatus or whatever that would also perhaps be but just lying is that uh so somebody lies to you is that essay

Brian Atlasif the lie then puts you under duress to make that decision. Uh the well this vague. No. Let's say you wouldn't have had sex with them had they not lied to you. Is is the lie putting you in some sort

Brian Atlasof duress? No. But they say I mean give me an example. Uh they say they're really rich, but they're not. No. But you would have not otherwise slept with a broke guy. No.

Brian AtlasOkay. Wrong to do. Unethical, manipulative. Yes. But you wouldn't categorize it as essay. Nick, can you pull up the first vid uh Tik Tok video from the rage quit feminist?

SPEAKER_11Audio. Yeah, we'll do audio. Um, go ahead and start from the beginning. The way men approach dating lacks consent. And I'll tell you why. I date

SPEAKER_11people of all genders. Women, men, non-binary, trans. Um, I'm I'm into you, not necessarily your gender. So, I hate to be so gendered in the way I'm speaking here, but this pattern is something I've literally noticed my

SPEAKER_11entire adult life, and I just need to talk about it. Regardless of what I've been looking for, whether I've been looking for something casual or whether I'm been looking for something serious, there are very interesting patterns of

SPEAKER_11the way that men and women communicate differently in relationships. Like, a woman will just tell you straight up if she wants to keep things casual. A woman will tell you if she wants to hook up. A woman will tell you if she wants to keep

SPEAKER_11it casual. like there's a lot of open and clear communication and they tend to actually follow through with what they're doing. Okay, maybe people's feelings change, maybe things get messy. I'm not saying women are perfect in every way, okay? Like women can be toxic

SPEAKER_11in their own way, but at least they do what they say for the most part. Whereas men will tell you they're in love with you and then ghost you the next day. Men will say whatever they need to say to

SPEAKER_11get into your pants that night and then whether they mean it or not. And this might be like obvious or basic, but it's just really frustrating, especially in a time like 2025 where it's like we're

SPEAKER_11having conversations about what we want out of dating. Like there's a lot less like assumed dating. Like especially as someone who identifies as queer, it's like I'm going to be pretty upfront with

SPEAKER_11what I want here. And like to to sleep with someone under the context of this may be something that's going

SPEAKER_11somewhere. this isn't going to be a one night thing. Um, this is something that we're building together. We're building towards a relationship. Like that is now the context that we have set for us sleeping together. So for you to be

SPEAKER_11lying about that, for that to be completely untrue and then like as soon as you get what you want, you just disappear. Um, that actually feels non-consensual because I didn't consent

SPEAKER_11to having a hookup. I didn't consent to having a one night stand. I consented to us building something. And you'll notice this because sometimes you'll go on several dates with a man before you're willing to sleep with him. And then when you finally do, his truth is revealed. And I just find this like absolutely

SPEAKER_11disgusting. If you want to be casual or you want to hook up, say you want to hook up. But the reason men don't want to say that is because they're worried that you don't want that. So let's just call that what it is. You're tricking me into sleeping with you. This is

SPEAKER_11non-consensual. Oh, you're you're worried that what you want is something that I won't be okay with. You're worried that what you want is something I won't consent to. So, you're putting it into context that I will consent to

SPEAKER_11under lies. Like, this is actually a huge consent problem and it feels extremely violating. And if you're a man who's doing this, I want you to realize that you're rapey. You're you're a rapy

Brian Atlasguy. And yes, that is most of you. So essentially what she's arguing is if a man is being dishonest with his

Brian Atlaslong-term intentions in an effort to induce a woman into having sex, uh, which to be clear, I think is wrong. It's manipulative and it's unethical. I

Emily (Coach DT250)don't think that's a crime. I don't think it meets the threshold of essay, but she seems to think it should or is. Yeah. So, I'll first and foremost um and then I'll let everybody else take the

Emily (Coach DT250)floor. Again, this is not a gender issue to me. This is a manipulation, emotional maturity, and emotional integrity issue. So, I do not think that this is men are all bad or women are all bad. I think that there are certain groups of women

Emily (Coach DT250)and men that are manipulative and emotionally immature. As far as this topic goes, um I think that at the end of the day, yes, there is manipulation and coercion when it comes to sexuality

Emily (Coach DT250)between both men and women. However, at the end of the day, a woman and a man consent made the decision to go into that that sexual encounter. Um, meaning

Emily (Coach DT250)that yes, the words were there, but if she didn't receive the commitment or or he didn't receive the commitment in the follow-up actions to prove that, then no, it would not be um sex like essay.

Josie MarcelinoIt would simply be naivity, but not necessarily in a bad way. is just naive. What do you think? I think she threw around uh the word

Josie Marcelinograpey a little bit too loosely. I don't think that's essay. I think it's manipulation. I think it's trickery. I think there is, you know, that's where you get into sort of the

Josie Marcelinogray area of consent cuz yeah, this person wasn't consenting to a hookup but now is engaged in one cuz they got tricked. But I don't think that makes it essay.

Josie MarcelinoThey did consent. They consented to the sex under a set of circumstances. What if she sucked and he doesn't? I was about to say that like maybe

Brian Atlasyou know like so the but she's saying that the guy ghosts you after. So how would she actually be able to come to the determination like two things could be possible. It could be the case that she

Brian Atlaswas misled and I'm this absolutely happens right? Guys lie about their intentions. Don't dispute it at all. guys absolutely lie saying they want long term but it can also be the case and again I think

Brian Atlasthat's wrong still don't even if you could prove that he clearly lied and he was just trying terrible thing to do don't think that that means you didn't

Brian Atlasconsent. Um, but then there's the guys, okay, well, how would you then differentiate between the guy who perhaps did have these intentions, but then

Brian Atlasmaybe there wasn't the right sexual chemistry, maybe he had this the sex happened and then he had a change of heart. We should tell her that he wouldn't just ghost her and be like, "Sy, got what I wanted and then out." That's not

Brian Atlasghost. people ghost each other, but either scenario I don't again uh I mean both are kind of scummy. One is worse than the other where it's he's like intentionally misleading where he

Brian Atlasdid have intentions to date her long term but then who knows maybe she was a [ __ ] after sex. Whatever it is, right? Uh you know the sex was bad. Whatever it is, if he's intentionally misleading her, is he tricking her?

Josie MarcelinoUh yeah, sure. Sure, I guess. Okay. Can somebody consent to being tricked? What do you mean? Like can you consent to being tricked? Yeah, you can't really. You're not being

Brian Atlastricked then. So again, I'll just reiterate that it's manipulative. It's unethical. But it does I don't think it calls into question the actual consent.

Josie MarcelinoNo, she consented to the sex, but I'm saying it's the gray area of like she was manipulated into that consent. Okay. But I mean, how far do we take this then? I don't consider it essay.

Brian AtlasOkay. I don't consider it that way. But if if it's a gray area, then we would have to, you know, make determinations as to all sorts of things when it comes to gray

Brian Atlasarea. Like, let's say I'm a guy who only sleeps with women with with big natural boobs. But let's say a woman had such a fantastic boob job that I couldn't tell

Brian Atlasthat they were fake. Have I just been I've been bamboozled into consenting where I would not have otherwise consented? Wow. I am now a victim.

Brian AtlasI had sex when I would have. If the threshold is having sex when you otherwise wouldn't have. Like what about I mean that's a kind of an interesting I think it makes you a shitty person. What about she you know uh I think she's

Brian Atlasa certain level of attractive but she's wearing makeup and I don't know how she actually looks underneath. She's actually below my threshold of what I would the type the woman I would [ __ ] Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02The woman. This is so This is so shallow. Yeah, we've gone off the rails with this one. But I feel like that's not the fairest comparison, Brian, just because like

Brian Atlasas opposed to tricking a woman into a relationship, but he has got completely different. She's got a magical push-up bra and there's I And then you saw the titties and you were like,

Maddie (Porn)"Hold on." No, but she kept the shirt on during the sex. But did she tell you she was not wearing a bra? Like, did you Was she telling you like if you like my boobs without a bra? You're not letting her wear a shirt and bra during the thing.

Brian AtlasSmall titty. I prefer the small. I'm a God bless you. I mean, I like both. Both are nice, but I'm team itty bitty titty committee. Itty titties and big. Yeah, it's Yeah,

Brian Atlassmall titt. I I get we've gotten off the rails to No, but let me give you a few other examples. A few other a few other examples. So it's like what about you know look men

Brian Atlaslie women lie like for example what if I only I only wanted to I would only consent and there's no gray hair like I refuse

Brian Atlasto consent to a woman who's over the age of 35 and a 37year-old on her dating profile writes that she's 33. I would have not consented had I known

Maddie (Porn)the truth. And she knows that's like a hard line for you. You only sleep with women that are 35 and under. Yeah. Like she has to know that's like the thing for cuz then that makes her shitty too. That [ __ ] Yeah. Like that makes her a bad person.

Brian AtlasI agree that I don't think anybody should know. And if you have that, you should ID. Wait, what about this though? So let's say on a dating app I put, it's not even going to be a funny one, but I just put You know how you can put what you're

Brian Atlaslooking for? I just put looking for long-term relationship and I go out with a girl uh and she puts it too. I go out with a girl, we hook up and uh

Brian Atlasshe ghosts me afterwards and she put on her profile, "Wait, you were looking for a long-term relationship." And the only scenario in which I would

Brian Atlasconsent to have sex with this woman is if there was a continuity in the relationship. I Does this make her an essayer? It wouldn't make the guy an essayer either.

Brian AtlasIt would just mean that she doesn't like you. Probably means she doesn't like you. It means she's a shitty person. I'm not saying it's essay. Interpretation. I feel victimized. Well, I guess a shitty person.

Brian AtlasShe owes me. You are the victim of a shitty person. But you are not. Somebody's going to get in trouble. That's what I don't get. Like it's like okay that whole thing right which look I

Brian Atlasdon't think most women think like her but she threw around some words pretty liberally but it's like to once you've had sex it's like if you're a woman and you're

Emily (Coach DT250)like well I wouldn't have consented da da da unless yeah that's where personal accountability comes in I think for both men and women where you got to be savvy you got to learn you got to grow you got to be savvy and take not people's words

Josie Marcelinobut their actions if you were tricked into something I will say you are a victim of an [ __ ] You are a victim of a bad person who did wrong. I'm not saying that you were essay. How about this? I wrote this one down. Okay. The rest were just off the

Brian Atlasprepared. But these I honestly passionate about preparing to be wrong. Uh so say a Catholic man who doesn't believe in divorce, he marries a cath

Brian Atlascatholic woman, which is true at the time. You're Catholic, right? Uh she also does not believe in divorce. This is the Catholic doctrine. divorces. I mean, there's some circumstances, whatever. Yes.

Brian AtlasThey 100% align on values, and she reaffirms and represents multiple times her belief in the Catholic faith and not believing in divorce. They wait until marriage to have sex, and the husband

Brian Atlasonly consented to have sex with her. He was a virgin. Both of them virgins under all the terms and representations she made. At some point, years down the

Brian Atlasline, there's no abuse. He's a good man, but she falls out of love. She's unhappy again. He's a nice guy. She's just falls out of love. Her faith starts to weaken

Brian Atlasand dwindle and she in she initiates a divorce. Was he graped? No. But well, I know nobody here at this table believes whatever the [ __ ] she was

Josie Marcelinotalking about. But like under I under her logic, would he have been grapes then? Yeah. under her logic, I think we'd have a lot more grapes in the world

Eleanorin a parallel where all of this is backwards then Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Anyways, especially because like um may not even fully understand the logic that she's trying

Brian AtlasI don't think she had logic portray. I think that that to me I think was a view grabber. Well, that [ __ ] She Here's what happened. She probably, by the way,

Brian Atlasshe's apparently Polly, which makes the whole thing really confusing, but she uh very serious about it. And what probably happened is she was dealing with a dude.

Brian AtlasThey hooked up. Maybe he was like, "Oh, yeah. I definitely want a girlfriend." He ghosted her. Now she's very upset and wants to ruin this man's life. Uh, one more thing. How about this? Uh, wait. What? What's the good one? Um,

Josie Marcelinooh goodness. The good one. Good. Get prepared. Oh, wait. [ __ ] What is it? I'm stoked for the good one. Um, okay. What about Wait, [ __ ] I lost it. Damn it.

Brian AtlasCan't be that good, though. If a woman, it's not this one, but I'll just read one of my other ones. If a woman who lies about being on birth control, but she's not, and the only reason that a man consents to like nonprotected sex Mhm.

Josie Marcelinois because she's on birth control, would that be a form of Yes, that's definitely I don't actually by law though, I don't think it is. It should be it should be in the same way with ghosting. No, in the same way with like

Brian AtlasSTDs. Yeah, stealthing things like that. That's absolutely not acceptable. Yeah, that's Oh, that would be another one that I would categorically say, yeah, that's essay. Like if she's like, I want to wear protection

Brian Atlasand the guy like takes it off and it like that's 100% essay and despicable. Um, but same I think but it's not there's not a law though for the birth control thing. So a woman could be like, "Yeah, I'm on birth control." Blast inside and then like trap a guy.

Maddie (Porn)Yeah, that's horrific. I definitely think that there should be a law on that, too. That's on like the exact same level of like taking off a condom and sex. Like it's the exact same. Another good one, though. I had a really good one. That was a good one.

Brian AtlasThat was so according to her logic, none of us. Not even here. She's not even here. Last one. Last one. Then I'll move it on

Brian Atlasto something a bit more fun. uh if she got with a guy and they both told each other, "By the way, I I really want a long-term relationship, you know,

Brian Atlashere's my, you know, I want I want this to last." And then uh they have sex, but he has a micro penis. And then she's like, "I don't want to." Uh okay. Um

Brian Atlasfrom his perspective, he could argue that she essayed him because she ghosted him after finding out well, you know, the microenas. Uh if if we're going from her logic, yes, she would probably say

Brian Atlasyes to that. Yeah, I think her logic would only work when it's a men in the wrong probably. Yep. Yeah. All right, let's move it on to something more interesting. Uh there's a there's a different video.

Brian AtlasYeah. What? Wait, what was it? Oh, you can play 20 seconds of it. But she she found some Okay, so there there is like case law that I already

Brian Atlasmentioned about like pretending to be somebody's spouse, STDs. Uh so there is there are laws about that sort of thing. So she maybe saw that and was like, "Oh, bingo. It actually is a crime." Uh why don't you just we'll watch 30 seconds of

SPEAKER_11it. Sexual fraud is a real thing and it is something you can take legal action against. Yesterday I made a post about the way that men date and how it lacks consent. how men approach dating often as telling women things that are untrue

Brian Atlasjust to get them in bed with them and how this is actually a consent violation. Okay, so you can pause it there. Discourse comment. Again, she's just essentially saying, okay, she looked something up. Uh it's

Brian Atlasreferencing very specific situations where like a wife is has been like bamboozled into thinking a man is her husband but isn't. Uh like STDs, these

Brian Atlassorts of things. Not the guy said uh I don't know also also in relationships. Well, hold on. I should finish my sentence. Like, oh, the guy said, "Yeah,

Brian Atlasbabe. I'm I'm looking for a girlfriend. They have sex." And then he's a jerk and doesn't call her back or whatever. Um but also, if you have any of you had

Brian Atlasthis said to you or you've said it in a relationship, I'll love you forever. Yes. Yeah, of course. And it's like, okay, I think there are certain romantic statements that people will make in

Brian Atlasrelationships and then I don't think the person like who's say you're breaking up with somebody and that person says, "But you said you'd love me forever." It's like these were romantic statements said

Brian Atlasin the moment. I don't think if you say somebody if you tell somebody that you're going to love them forever that that that then makes you beholden to stay with them forever. Mhm.

EleanorYou know, I think there's certain statements. I don't know, whatever. I don't know if that makes any sense. No, it makes sense. Yeah, cuz you know, you could say that this person is the love of your life at I don't know, like

Eleanorit's usually seen like you. Yeah. I I'll just say like high schoolers puppy love, you know, they're always very like we're going to be together forever. We're going to be the high school sweethearts. And you know, you really do like get into that

Eleanorrelationship thinking like you are going to be together forever. But I think it's really normal and natural for people to kind of just grow apart from people and just be two different people. So, you

Josie Marcelinoknow, like yeah, at the time your intentions are to be with them forever, but things change. And but if your intent, but if you're like, "Ooh, this lady only sleeps with guys she's in a relationship with and she

Josie Marcelinoreally likes me and she wants to be in a relationship and I am not trying to do that, but I would like to." And then you're like, "All right, yeah, I'll be in a relationship with you just to bang and you know the whole time that's not

Brian Atlaswhat you're doing." That does make you a bad person. Yeah. It's manipulative. It's wrong. It's unethical. Not an essayer, but you are gross. Yeah. Don't think it rises to the threshold of Yeah.

Brian AtlasUh oh, also going back to the looks rating thing, can you pull up that photo of the two people? Oh, goodness. All right. So, Oh, no. Wow. That was scary.

Brian AtlasScroll out. Zoom out. All right. So, beauty is subjective. Here's where I struggle, right? Here's where I struggle. We have two women

Brian Atlashere, two beautiful women. Um, I think again, beauty is subjective, but there are objective components to beauty. And

Brian AtlasI think there's a universality that can occur where I think 99% of people would say the woman on the left is more

Brian Atlasattractive than the woman on the right. Now, I want to open this up to the panel here and see if we have some honest women here.

Brian AtlasRa uh show of hands. Show of hands. Is the woman on the left more attractive? The left and the Yeah. The woman on the tall one.

Brian AtlasThe left. Is the white lady more attractive? That is what you're asking. Is the woman on the left more attractive? You mean the white one? She happens to be white. But is the woman on the left more attractive?

Josie MarcelinoYes. In my personal opinion, yes. But there are some people who are disgusted with white people and won't date them based on that. That is true. Yeah. But in that picture though, I think even if you're disgusting with white people, you would still pick that

Mandy (Iran)one. Anti-white racist are going to have to make a make a compromise. I don't I I think even if you hate white people with your every inch of your body, you would still pick the white one.

Brian AtlasI mean, objectively, by my question, yeah, by western standards come in just a sec. But like so we say be beauty is in the eye of the beholder but what what

Brian Atlasare the things that we're looking at when it comes to the woman on the left that we're able to come to a determination collectively and it's universal almost

Holly (62)near universal that the woman on the left is more attractive like what is it about her I think it's that um the United States

Holly (62)has such a stronghold in the world with media IA, movies, everything that um like the white culture is what people

Holly (62)have seen all over. But if you went to a Africa or wherever she was, you know, in her village, she could be I think she's Australian Aboriginal. But

Josie Marcelinookay, then Australian Aboriginal. Yeah, but let's go with Africa. I still I'm pretty sure even the African people are would not think she was attractive.

Josie MarcelinoNo, actually Holly I never thought this. I agree with you on that. I think yeah, the western the western beauty standard is what most of the world sees. So it is what most of the world values there like I could

Brian Atlasthis would this can work in the reverse too. Like you could show somebody uh a really beautiful black person and like a really really ugly white person and even though they're white, they'd be like, "Yeah, the black person's more attractive."

Brian AtlasNot where I grew up. There's some people who would be like, "I will absolutely not." Okay. Who's like the um Stac Stacy Dash? I don't know if she mixed. I don't know if that's fair. Stacy Dash. Clueless. You know the black girl from

Brian AtlasClueless? Yes. I didn't see it. Uh she's like really attractive to black. I don't know if people are going to be like, "Well, she's mixed." So it's like, is she? I don't know. Beyonce. Stacy Dash. Beyonce is a beautiful black woman. Nah, Stacy Dash is more attractive. Okay.

Holly (62)Um Stacy Dash, she's someone that was married to gosh, the tall guy that died that's English. Oh, she's beautiful. Bottle. What's her name? Seal.

Holly (62)No, not Seal. No, that's a man. Who's the guy? David Bowie. He was married to You guys know David Bowie? Yeah, but we're from different decades. We don't know his wife. What? What's her name?

Brian AtlasMissy. She's beautiful. We're holding you to that. Uh, okay. Um, Naomi Campbell is beautiful. I'm trying to think of other ones that are

Brian AtlasBut I mean like I there's plenty of black women who I can think of and you show a black a really attractive black woman and ugly white woman to a white person, they're like, "Yeah, the black person's more attractive." Yeah. But a super racist white guy, they

Brian Atlaswon't say that. I think even a racist white guy. I I I grew up unfortunately around a lot of racists. And No, I mean we can find some really unremarkable white people and like some really attractive black people. So, I mean,

Brian Atlasyeah, I agree with that. I don't know. Anyways, uh let's Was there something else we had to react to or I'm Oh, we have a chat here. Lactose, the intolerant, a key characteristic of an apex predator is having no natural

Brian Atlaspredators of their own. Humans can't be apex predators for other humans because that would violate this key characteristic. Proving they are not an apex predator. Please use my money to buy dictionary.

Josie MarcelinoBut it could work for women to men. It could work for men hunt women. So men can't be men's apex predator, but men can be women's predator. In nature, you're typically talking about uh interecies. Yeah. And right here, I'm talking about

Brian Atlasgender. Interecies predation. Yeah. Yeah. But um criminality is like abnormal adverse psych. Wait, hold on. What the [ __ ] am I

Brian AtlasWhat kind of word salad am I about to say? I'm uh What am I about to say here? I don't think you can frame the dynamics between men and women through the lens

Josie Marcelinoof predation. I you just can't. Brian, you got to start watching Dine. Everybody's like, he was the best guy

Brian Atlasever and they were so in love and then I don't know. She ended up in a in the woods in a freezer. Yeah, in a freezer. I'm just saying, look, I think it's there's a little bit of uh you guys are getting very

Josie Marcelinocomfortable with the manhating. Okay, I don't hate men. I love I love men and I can tell you what I love about men. The anti-male rhetoric not anti-male.

Brian AtlasA little It's a bit much. This girl over here, I don't know if it was, you know, the one child policy in China that got her a little upset. I got What? What? Who said that? I have a sister. Hey, look, there's a lot of misogyny in

Josie MarcelinoChina. This is true. They [ __ ] aborted the baby girls. Anyways, and now there's less cuz there's too many men and there's like very few

Josie Marcelinowomen. All right. Would you date um what's his name? Zinping. Is how do you say the leader's name? Xi Jinping. Sorry. Xihinping. The president.

Brian AtlasYeah, the president. He's a taken man. No. If he was single, probably not. I don't think Do you think like those top top like CCP people, do you think they they like [ __ ] prostitutes? Yes.

Holly (62)Like I feel like they probably Well, it's a very like politicians. Wait, what? Don't Don't wait. Oh, how'd she get your phone? Hey, I was wondering. She's beautiful. Okay. Naomi Campbell, maybe. I don't know.

Brian AtlasWho was that? Aman. She's beautiful. Take the phone. Oh, come on. Come on. Take the phone for listening. Oh, come on. Come on. We'll just hide it. Come on. All right. Whatever. Um, wait. What? What were we talking

Lucy (Data)about? If I would date the leader of Do we think politicians get hookers? Well, his daughter is my age. That would be bizarre. Would you date his son? Read the rest of that. I don't No, he doesn't have a son.

Lucy (Data)Something But I mean, if if he had a child, would you have dated young Joseph Stalin? that. Let's open up that upside down. I don't think so. Show a picture of him. Let's see what he looks like.

Brian AtlasHey, can you Google young Joseph Stalin? He's actually before their crimes or after. He's a [ __ ] He's hot then. Yeah. I feel like I remember him being hot. Yeah, but he also murdered like millions

Brian Atlasof people. That's why I said, but like he was a he was But was it would you guys cute young click click

Holly (62)one of the first photos? Do I know what he's going to become? Yeah. Like what information is scary? That's how come you don't go for looks cuz you just you just don't know what you're going to turn out. There are plenty of ugly serial killers,

Eleanortoo, though. Would you date him? And I would definitely give him a chance for one date so I could get to know him. What did he do?

Josie MarcelinoMurdered like 40 million people. He was the um leader of Russia. He was crazy. Yeah, that whole thing. Just some casual casual genocide. Little touch of genocide. Who here would date him though?

Maddie (Porn)He seems Are we talking before? Like do we know him? So he's like probably revolutionary. I don't know how old he was when he did a day like one day, you know, get to

Eleanorknow him, share some food. If I just saw a guy that looked like that, I would give him a chance. Should we do uh who else should we do? Is this like kind of Should we do Maadong?

Brian AtlasOh my goodness. Like young Maadong. He was a babe. Yeah. Young Maadong. I don't know if he should be. Do you even know how to spell Maadong? We don't know these people. I bet Mary doesn't even know how to spell that [ __ ]

Brian AtlasShe's like, "Is that a Chinese restaurant?" All right, Nick can do it. Put the Get the man in there. Get the man in. Did she spell it? Maong,

SPEAKER_02bro. No.

Brian AtlasOkay. Would you guys date Young Ma Chairman Mau? We haven't seen what he looks like. Yeah. I'm trying to get a Come on. We can let Nick in there. He's a He's a

Brian Atlasfaster typer, is he? What's your words per minute? All right, get that pulled up. Can we get that? Scroll down.

Brian AtlasScroll down. He was also unfortunately handsome. Scroll down. They tend to be, don't they? There. Uh, that's old mouse. No, Hitler was ugly.

Mandy (Iran)Okay. I thought ugliness was um I mean he wasn't a badl looking guy. Hitler. Hitler. Young Hitler. He was he was weird looking young. No, he looked weird. I thought beauty was in the eye of um I thought it was subjective. I thought

Brian Atlasin my eyes Hitler was weird. Yeah, in my eyes Hitler weird as well. Can we do like should we do Bonito Mussolini or Melini? Let's do um Yeah, let's do Bonito

Josie MarcelinoMussolini. Young Bonito. What did this guy do other than Hitler? I didn't know any of them. Uh, Bonita Mussolini was an Italian fascist during World War II. You know what? It kind of looks like the young version of one of you, doesn't it? Remember the young

Brian Atlasthe male version? Scroll down. I'm Italian, so that does make sense. Look at this hat. What the [ __ ] He looks kind of like my brother. I should get a hat like that and just like approach chicks and be like, "What's up?"

Brian AtlasScroll back up. Show them the hat. That hat. You see that hat with the feathers? I would get so much [ __ ] with that hat. Y'all would be all over me if I clicked that [ __ ]

Brian AtlasYou have to change the name of the show. Oh god. Wait, he's doing the [ __ ] Roman salute. Let's get that out of there. Um, maybe change it. All right. So, anyways, um, let's move on to some of the notes. Uh, here we're

Brian Atlasgoing to do some questionnaire [ __ ] Oh, no. You know what? I need to talk to you about the whole Catholic stuff. Me? Oh, yeah. All right. So, uh, you're Catholic, right? I'm Catholic. And you're also uh bi bisexual.

Brian AtlasI am. And you're also a leftist. Yes, I am. All right. That's interesting. And um so you're Oh, and you're pro church. Okay. Are you still do you still consider yourself a Catholic?

Brian AtlasYes, I do. Do you go to church or how often do you go to church? I try to do it every Sunday. doesn't always happen but um and you are aware that uh the

Josie MarcelinoCatholic Church has taken a stance against some of those things position on abortion. Yes. Okay. How do you I guess reconcile that? I don't believe that life begins at conception. I believe that it begins at

Brian Atlasconsciousness. Uh but so okay I'm not an expert in Catholicism but don't you have to defer a little bit to the uh what the church is like you're just

Josie Marcelinocan you ignore the church as a Catholic? Not on every stance but I mean I believe in the fundamentals of the Catholic Church like the trinity or yeah I believe in the trinity. I believe in everything that we say in the apostles creed. Okay.

Josie MarcelinoSo do you believe in the Bible? I so here's my take on the Bible. Uh, so the Bible was originally written in Aramaic. Um, and then it was translated from Aramaic and partially Hebrew to

Josie MarcelinoGreek. And when it was translated from those languages to Greek, the translation was awful. It's not even close. Like the word for virgin that they used uh for Mary does not actually

Josie Marcelinotranslate to virgin. It meant young girl. So with with so many errors like that, I can't completely defer to the Bible. I have to think of the Bible more as like

Josie Marcelinoan allegory or the best guess cuz I don't speak Aramaic. Um so I can't read the original translations are the translations have been proven time

Josie Marcelinoand time again to be wildly accurac. And then I mean the King James Bible has redacted so much out of it. There are books that we don't have access to.

Brian AtlasOkay. Well, are there are there um what's it called? Um what I mean is that the official

Brian Atlasposition of the Catholic uh faith that that the Bible is No, they take the Bible as the word of God. But okay, so why do you differ from the official position? Sure, maybe the

Josie Marcelinooriginal one was, but now that it's been translated and mistransated and redacted and changed and put in the hands of people who are using religion to control the masses and political power, then

Brian Atlasyeah. All right. Now, I think the Bible has been a bit bastardized until we have it today. Okay. So, you think the, for example, like the new pope and all previous popes were wrong on the abortion topic? I disagree with them.

Brian AtlasYou think they're wrong, though? Yeah. So just to be and these are you know typically these are people who are quite expert I I would hope the pope is an expert in Pope is also a monarch he's still a

Brian Atlaspolitical figure right but so I I guess my confusion stands uh if all these theologians that are involved in the Catholic Church who have spent their life dedicated to the

Josie Marcelinostudying of the faith the Bible etc they're wrong on this issue. Yeah, I I believe logically they're wrong. I believe that they are. I also believe that they were wrong to shuffle around

Brian Atlaspriests and hide essay back through all out history. Wrong, but I I don't think that there's any sort of biblical prescription. This would be like a a uh something related

Brian Atlasto the what humans are doing, not something as prescribed by the faith. But again, this is my understanding like this would be like something wrong that they are specifically doing. Well, the Bible

Brian Atlasdoesn't outright say you can't have an abortion. Well, I'm not a theologian. It didn't exist back then. I'm not a the Did it I mean, there weren't there ways

Brian Atlasthat women could even historically or in archaic times. Yeah. Eventually, we got there, but there wasn't like herbs and [ __ ] or, you know, whatever concoctions

Brian Atlasum to try attempt to induce like a shoddy abortion or something, right? Uh, I I assume back then it would also that would also be frowned upon, right? I don't know if it was frowned upon back then. Okay. Well,

Brian Atlassociety or otherwise asking you, but as at least as it relates to the faith. Um, it seems a bit, by the way, that was a bit of a red herring, like, okay, well, the church did this and that's bad. I agree with you. What they did was bad. Yeah.

Brian AtlasUm, I'm not like a Catholic apologist. I'm not Catholic. I'm not even Christian, by the way. Um although I I do want to say I do see massive amounts of value in Christianity even from an

Brian Atlasagnostic perspective. I have very pro-ch Christian sentiments. Um but uh but yeah so um so I'm just kind of from an

Brian Atlasoutsers's perspective looking into this. knowing that the Catholic's position on this, the Pope's position on this reaffirm the church's opposition to abortion. I just I that's weird to me.

Josie MarcelinoLike, how do you reconcile being a Catholic but being pro-choice because the popes have changed their opinions throughout the years on not on pro-choice or pro- life, not on this

Josie Marcelinoparticular topic, but on other topics. The interpretation of certain things, the translation of things has changed over the years. Because of that, I think that man's inter.

Josie MarcelinoAnd that's it's actually usually quite a big swing when we go from one pope to the next. One will be super conservative and then it'll swing to a super liberal and then it'll swing back. Right now it actually was like kind of a half step. We went from super liberal to like a

Josie Marcelinolittle bit more moderate but not crazy conservative like they were expecting it to. Um but yeah, because of that like you can now technically be a Catholic and get your divorce approved. you can be Catholic and now technically marry a

Josie MarcelinoJew. You can get that approved by a bishop. So when I see things like that, I'm like, okay. So, some of this is just men trying to interpret the word of God to their the best of their abilities.

Josie MarcelinoAnd sometimes that's done so because they're trying to control other people because they're trying to gain political favor or whatever. Um, and again, I don't speak the original Aramaic that the Bible was written in, but still it

Brian Atlaswas written by man, so I put my faith in that a little bit looser. But yeah, sure. Uh, we have Cherry, thank you for the gift to 20 subs. Really appreciate

Brian Atlasit. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, in your other notes, you said you were kidnapped on a date once and you had to steal a car to get home. Yes. Quick recap on that. What happened? Uh, yeah. So, it was a guy that I went

Josie Marcelinoto high school with who was a bit older than me. Uh, I was a freshman who when he was a senior. This was after I had graduated high school. We were both home for the summer. We were flirting just

Josie Marcelinovia DMs. Uh, and then we agreed upon a date. He was going to take me out to uh just like a diner in my hometown and he picked me up and it's the only time I've ever let a guy pick me up in his car. I

Josie Marcelinowill never do that again. Um, but he came and he picked me up and his truck was like really shitty. Like seat belts didn't work and it just beeped like the seat belts weren't on the whole time. And he was like, "Yeah, it's kind of

Josie Marcelinolike a shitty truck." And we drove past the diner and I was like, "Well, where are we going?" And he's like, "Oh, well, I was thinking we we could go to like the woods and like look at the stars." He was like, "Also, like I have to leave the car running cuz if I shut it off, it

Josie Marcelinohas to like be down for like a certain amount of time and then I have to jump it a certain way cuz it like doesn't it's a bad car." And I was like, "Okay." So, he's like, "Yeah, we'll just leave it running and then we'll like go and look at the stars." And I was like,

Josie Marcelino"This is not great." So, he takes me to um closed down nature center in my hometown and I'm like, "All right, I would like to leave now." And he was like, "No, let's get in the bed of my

Josie Marcelinotruck. Let's get like look at the stars." And so I did. Uh, and we we kissed for a little bit cuz I was like, "I need to figure out a way to get out of this." And then he was like, "Come on, like let's go down by the lake." And as soon as he said that, I was like,

Josie Marcelino"That is where I will die." Uh, so no, we're not doing that. And then he was like, "No, like come follow me down to the lake." And I was like, "Okay." So I got out of the bed of the truck. He like led and then I turned, ran, got into the car, still had the keys in it, still

Josie Marcelinorunning. and I peeled the [ __ ] out of there with his truck. I went probably 100 miles an hour. Got off to the highway, like the main little area in our hometown. Just threw threw the keys

Josie Marcelinofar, like turned the car off, threw the keys out the window and like started running down the highway and then I hitchhiked home and then I blocked him on everything. I think he lives in California now. So,

Josie MarcelinoJohn, if you're watching anyway, no, I'm good. That's a crazy situation, but I was 20, so Oh [ __ ] he's got the shades. The hearts.

SPEAKER_02Those are mine. Boy, mine. Those are definitely mine. Oh, sorry. I I No, it was shade time. I get it. Thank you. Thank you. I like to believe I have a good fashion

Brian Atlastape. Are these from like the early 2000s or? Um, honestly, I got these. on. I can't put them on my face cuz my lashes are too long. So, they're just accessories. I guess you can run. Yes,

Brian Atlasthat's cute. Okay. All right. How did they look? Did they look good on me? They looked amazing. Yeah. Uh, okay. You said you you think you we fundamentally disagree on most things. Uh,

Brian AtlasI'd say so. Yeah. You say primarily conservative, traditional. Uh Pratt, you say like evangelical. I'm not Christian, but Andrew. And Andrew who's frequently on, he's uh Orthodox Christian.

Josie MarcelinoIs that the one that can't open the pickle jar? Uh and that is Andrew Wilson. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. That's the one that I was thinking of when I saw that.

Brian AtlasHold on. He did open it eventually. No, that one did. The hot one you have back here opened up the pickle jar. Well, there was the pickle jars and the olive jars. So, okay. I didn't see the olive jar. Technically, the pickle jar he got. Okay. No, pickle jar I think was him.

Brian AtlasNo, the olive jar he struggled with, but the pickle jar he got it. Okay. And just to be clear, it was greased. It got greased. Okay. Well, then don't judge the lady for not being able to open it.

Brian AtlasLook, all I all I can say is Andrew is a very strong man. He's got a firm handshake, but he is built like a praying mantis. Hold on. Just to be clear, the the the olive jars, okay, there's a technique to

Brian Atlasopening them. And if you don't know the technique, you're going to struggle. I don't know. I feel like chair one could open up an olive jar. Well, she's also steroids.

Brian AtlasCan we stop talking about the fact that I did steroids? I'm just jacked. You are jacked. I just go to a Gemini. Eat healthy.

Brian AtlasYeah. Uh we are going to do Hold on. Oh, okay. So, uh I guess what do we disagree with? You said you're a very live and let live leftist. Yeah.

Brian AtlasUm you said we disagree entirely on gender roles and values. Yeah. You said you're well educated, wellraveled woman working in two near terribly male-dominated industries. By

Brian Atlasthe way, men here are wellraveled and here had sex with a bunch of men in different areas, but just FYI. Well, they're wrong about that, but all right. Just in general. Okay. I didn't think that about you. You kind of give off like

Brian AtlasThat's fine. I've been to 31 countries. I would consider that well traveled. That's really cool. Just saying that's what that's what our primitive male brains here are. But when you assume I've traveled a lot,

Brian Atlasum you said you don't believe that there is a biological determination as to who should be dominant or submissive in relationships between the genders. You don't believe romantic relationships need to have a dominant and submissive

Josie Marcelinodynamic. Uh so what do you mean by that? We can have a back and forth. Well, given that I am bisexual and like I I'm interested in women as well, I don't feel that I have like necessarily a biological drive that makes me have to

Josie Marcelinogo towards men. I certainly I love men and I love them for specific reasons and I would go towards a relationship with them wanting those things, but

Brian Atlasyeah, I'm not Are you okay? Just the scoot your shirt over all the way here. Okay. I don't know. You won't pop out. I don't know. She's

Brian Atlasgot a lot of side boobs. Female anatomy apparently. Um just looking out for you. Um okay. So you're bisexual. So you don't believe in What about uh if we move away the language from dominant and submissive?

Josie MarcelinoWhat about leader follower? I I would say the same thing. Yeah. I don't think that a man necessarily has to be even the more masculine one in the relationship. If you want to have like the traditional masculine and feminine

Josie Marcelinolike balancing act dynamic, maybe the woman's a little bit more masculine and the man's a little bit more feminine and that works for them. So, do you go 50/50 on dates?

Josie MarcelinoI haven't been on a date in a long time and my my last relationship made way more than I did. So, Oh, so so it wasn't He always went ahead and paid just cuz financially it made the most sense.

Josie MarcelinoHold on. Seems a bit he was really high earner. Seems a bit dominant of him and traditional for him to pay for the dates. I would say he was probably the more dominant one in our specific

Brian Atlasrelationship. Your Hold on. Just to be clear, your five-year relationship, your longest relationship, your most recent relationship. Yes. You say that you don't believe romantic relationships need to have dominant

Josie Marcelinosubmissive dynamic yet. Yeah. I don't think inherently that they do. I don't think that you can just paint it with a broad brush. I would say that he was more the leader in in the financial aspect for sure in our

Brian Atlasrelationship, but I don't think that that's something that has to be a universal truth for all heterosexual relationships. Well, yeah, sure. I can envision a relationship where the woman is more dominant than the man. And those

Brian Atlasrelationships do exist, but you seem to have disagreement on what then? Do you think it's una it's not the natural order of things? Where is your

Josie Marcelinodisagreement? I've seen when I've seen clips of this show, it has been argued that the man has to biologically lead the woman. Like he has to and he won't feel fulfilled if

Brian Atlashe doesn't have that. If he can't be the provider, then he won't feel fulfilled, which is probably true for some guys, but certainly not for all of them. Uh well, I would actually say that the issue is less with the the men in that

Brian Atlassituation. and more with the women. Okay. Yeah, I'm sure that's probably true for some of them, too. I think men probably, if you ask them, they would actually be okay forsaking some of their traditional gender roles so long as the women were okay with it.

Brian AtlasI think it happens to be the case that women are they don't want men to forsake their traditional gender roles. Maybe, I don't know. So the ones for

Brian Atlasexample and these are the ones that typically place a burden on men and make life a little bit easier for women. So

Brian Atlaspaying for first dates or having the almost exclusive burden of initiative. So, and when I say initiative, I mean uh

Brian Atlasmaking the first approach, carrying the conversation, asking for the number, following up, texting, setting up the date, planning the date, paying for the date, moving things forward. Oh, is she down to move things forward? No. Okay.

Brian AtlasRinse and repeat for second date, third date, move things forward physically, go for the first kiss, move things towards sex. These are all things that typically fall on the man. Women love that men keep that [ __ ] They

Brian Atlaslove that the initiative and the burden there continues to fall on men. I don't I mean I don't think that's a universal truth for all women. I didn't say for all women. Yeah. I And I don't even know that it's the majority, but

Brian AtlasI think it's the majority. Okay, then maybe it is. Well, I mean, so you think you think the majority of women initi like initiate? No, I'm saying I don't know. How? Although I do know quite a few women who

Josie Marcelinohave initiated their relationships who have initiated. Yeah. Do they initiate to the same degree that men initiate in in their particular relationship? They were the ones that initiated.

Josie MarcelinoInitiate what? Sex? No. Well, all all the different breakdowns of when initiation would occur. Yeah. I've met some pretty overzealous women who are who are like, I'm just going to get this going. And a lot of

Brian Atlasguys drag their feet. So sometimes, yeah, it will be women that initiate these conversations. You're arguing that's the exception to the rule. overwhelmingly men have to initiate. Sure. Okay.

Josie MarcelinoI'm not saying that that's like an inherent truth that works for everybody. That was my whole point is that I don't think we live in this rigid thing where it's like that is the norm and that's what has to happen. Okay. Let me ask you a question. Do you

Brian Atlasthink an average woman can never initiate anything in her entire life and still get a man?

Josie MarcelinoNot not not possibility, probability. initiate anything in her entire life? Yes. So when it comes to dating, okay,

Josie Marcelinoan averagel looking woman, need she make take steps of initiative to get a boyfriend? I think she would have to at least take the initiative of putting herself out there in some capacity,

Josie Marcelinomaking her like either going on dating apps or going out somewhere with the intention of meeting someone. Okay. What else? Does she have any other burdens or responsibilities? I think that there's probably somebody that

Josie Marcelinowould take her up on her not bearing any responsibility. You said, "Is it possible?" Yeah, I think it's possible. No, but I'm ask Yes, I it is possible,

Josie Marcelinobut is it probable? No, she doesn't take any initiative in any capacity. Sorry, just to be clear. No, I don't know how else to explain this.

Josie MarcelinoUm, sorry. I did hit two Tylenol back there earlier. So, okay. If you compare an average man to an average woman, sure.

Brian AtlasWhat are the differences in terms of the initiative that each has to take to get to where they want to go, then yeah, probably men would have to put in more. So, here's how I would paint it.

Brian AtlasOkay. I think maybe it's not the case for all women, but most women can get away with just showing up to the club and men will come up to you. As a man,

Brian Atlasif you go to the club and you just do what women do, which is not do anything really. No girls are coming to talk to you. I've been to the club countless times with

Brian AtlasAnd you saw one girl? No, I'm saying I've gone to I've gone out with my averagel looking friends and I've never seen some of them get approached. You always argue to, oh, okay, sure, there's women who go out to bars and on a specific night, they never

Brian Atlasget approached. They might even be really good-looking, they don't get approached. I'm not even going to dispute that. But if you take an averagel looking girl, or let's just say it's like a, you know, I don't know, maybe slightly above average, put her in

Brian Atlasa bar, whatever, she's gonna there's a much higher likelihood that she'll be approached than the her looks equivalent guy. You're giving me a hypothetical and

Josie Marcelinogoing, "Isn't this anecdote probably what happens?" And then I give you anecdotes from my real life and you're like, "Don't do that." Okay. Yeah. In your hypothetical, probably. What do you mean in my hypothetical?

Brian AtlasYou're okay. I imagine an average woman can just go out. How many times have you been to bars or clubs? A lot. More than I can put a finger on.

Brian AtlasYou're telling me that there's it's 50/50. Women approaching men, men approaching women. It's just 50/50. I've approached more men than men have approached me at bars and clubs. So, I'm

Josie Marcelinonot paying attention to other I find that that's just the reality. I mean, you can doubt it, but I've given you my lived experience. How many men have you approached?

Brian AtlasA lot. More than I can put a number to. Congratulations. You're the outlier. What about all the other women that you I'm not looking at what other [ __ ] are doing unless I'm trying to you What the [ __ ] I'm not looking at what other women are doing. What do you think other people are

Brian Atlasdoing? I don't know. I don't I'm not trying to pretend that I know the answer. I'll make it super easy. You have a public Instagram? Yes. Okay. Have you ever slid into somebody's DMs? Yes.

Brian AtlasHow many times? At least like five. Okay. How many men have slid into your DMs? A lot. Okay. There's an asymmetry in the frequency with which you're DMing men versus how many men are how many men

Brian Atlasyou're DMing versus how many men are DMing you. Sure. Okay. I'm sure I could ask all the women here at the table. They would probably say there's massive asymmetry between how many men they've DM'd versus how many men have DM'd them.

Brian AtlasYes. Okay. This would indicate that there is some asymmetry when it comes to initiative between the sexes. Sure. And I think that this equally applies to more organic situations,

Brian Atlaswhether it's at a bar, a club, or a party. Men are more likely to take initiative in these environments also. And more broadly speaking, in all other romantic contexts, men are going to make the first move. Okay, here we can do it like this. I can also

Brian Atlasask about first kiss. Who initiates the first kiss? The men or the woman? Yes, I agree. Sometimes women go for the first kiss first. I'd say overwhelmingly men are initiating first kisses and all other steps of initiative too.

Josie MarcelinoI I haven't asked I haven't taken a poll. How about you? Of all the times you've had a first kiss, was it you who was like I mean in all of my experiences with first kisses, we kind of were moving in at the same time. You lock eyes and

Josie Marcelinoyou're like going in. Is that not how you do what are you just ladies sitting here and you just kind of Is that what your first kiss is like? Cuz for me it's usually you're making eyes and then you kind of do a smile and then you go in. I feel like this is a

Brian Atlasbit of a convenient thing for women to do, but like I think most guys thought processes as the guy when you're going for the kiss,

Brian AtlasI agree that sometimes it can be like a wow, this is really the moment, but I feel like the guys just kind of [ __ ] go for it. And uh it's overwhelmingly the guy that's going for

Brian Atlasit. And maybe you and in your your woman brain, you're like, "Oh, I also participated in making the kiss happen when it was really the guy who initiated the kiss."

Josie MarcelinoAre you be honest with me, Brian, are you just going in without the whole like eye contact and smile before you go in for the kiss? What are you talking about? I'm saying

Josie Marcelinoat my experience when it comes to a first kiss, you like lock eyes and you smile in a certain way where you're like, "All right, we're going to go in for a kiss now." And then you guys go in for a kiss. So, I'm not I've had guys just kind of go for it and then

Brian AtlasI'm not in the middle of talking about the Roman Empire and then I just [ __ ] go for it. Like, I'm not doing that [ __ ] I'm defin I'm not doing that [ __ ] But it's like there is the moment. There

Brian Atlasis the lull in the conversation. And if I didn't go first, she's not coming first. Is she not initiating anything like with her body language to indicate that she would like you to kiss her?

Brian AtlasHold on. Now you're you're goalpost shifting here. Let's assume that the body language is there and she wants to [ __ ] me with an urgency. Great. But fantastic. But somebody has to make the first move. Somebody

Josie MarcelinoSo you're talking the act of physically leaning in. You would Yeah, that's the initiative. I would say that some initiative too is like if she's getting closer to you, if she's snuggling up, you don't think that that's initiative for physical contact. I'm the one who's initiating that also.

Josie MarcelinoIs she backing away? No. Okay. Well, then you just she's into that [ __ ] Then that's great. You're just a little bit overzealous at that point. Maybe don't do all of it. Let her cuddle in. Oh my god, bro. You you say that, but

Brian AtlasI'm maybe it's because you're a bit more aggressive with your sexual pursuits or whatever, but I'm telling you, if guys were waiting if guys were just waiting around for women to make the move, the

Brian Atlaswomen wouldn't make the move. Brian, let the next lady surprise you. I'm literally telling you, if a guy is being passive, if he's not proactively

Brian Atlastrying to move things forward, look, I there are situations where girls will do that. I'm not denying it. But if guys are being passive, trust me, it's going to be to the girl's just going to get so

Brian Atlasfrustrated she either loses interest or it'll be the [ __ ] 10th date and she's like, "Pussy, why have you not tried to kiss me yet?" It's this idea that the

Brian Atlasguy It's equal. It's They're both doing at the same time. No, the guy has to make that initial It's why it's called initiative. He has to make the initial move. All right. All right. Look, I'll take your word for

Brian Atlasit. I know you're all over the dudes that you deal with, okay? You're [ __ ] all over them. Boom, boom, boom. I like what I like. That's fine. But maybe you're more sexually aggressive. And I'm telling you, most women don't move like that.

Brian AtlasAll right, I'll take your word for it. You've lived as a man, and I haven't. So, even so, okay, I'll give you I'll give you my own anecdotes, and you'll be like, well, I have different anecdotes. Even women who are like insanely into

Brian Atlasme, insanely, right? They [ __ ] love me, right? No, but I'll give you the context so you think I'm not just [ __ ] gassing you up. These are women. These are women. Uh this is like back in uh I'll say it was

Brian Atlastwo, three years ago early on when I started the podcast 2023. Uh I had a couple ladies who uh you know they've reach out to me, right? They reach out to me. So they've already shown initiative.

Brian AtlasOkay. Reach out to me. They flew from across the country on their own dime to come and see me. Okay. Damn. I'm still having to move things forward uh in that way. They're not

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