BBW Roster?! Fake Conservative God Fearing ØNLYFANS Girl EXPOSED As Liar?! | Dating Talk #196

Date: 2024-09-16

Duration: 7h 46m

Guests

Brian Atlas

LLindsay (Music)>

LLindsy (OC Sales)>

AAthena (TX Homestead)>

CChris (Pink Pill)>

AAlexis (DT196)>

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00TTS Reader(audience)

SPEAKER_01Chris(guest)

SPEAKER_02Lindsy(guest)

SPEAKER_03Brena/Paula/Alexis(guest)

SPEAKER_07Athena(guest)

SPEAKER_08Jake(guest)

SPEAKER_09Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_13Eva(guest)

SPEAKER_14Lindsay(guest)

Key Moments

QuoteBrena: "I'm a kinky Christian" — describes her identity as conservative, God-fearing, and OnlyFans creator simultaneously.

“I'm a kinky Christian”

QuoteBrena says God does not judge her for having OnlyFans. Athena counters: "The Bible specifically says not to be a stumbling block."

“I don't think God judges me for having an only fans”

ControversyBrian confronts Brena Black with video evidence (matching tattoo) of oral sex act. Brena denies. Paula (ex-military) analyzes video from tattoo/facial features and confirms it is Brena. Jake calls her a liar. Brena maintains denial throughout.

QuoteBrena admits to being insecure about having an OnlyFans: "I hate that I have to have one it really sucks I wish I was just a trust fund baby."

“I hate that I have to have one it really sucks”

ControversyBrian presents escorting rate card matching a profile linked to Brena ($1800/hr coffee date, $3k lunch, $5k dinner, $8k overnight). Brena denies.

OtherAlexis discloses on-stream that ~13 years ago she was a bikini barista, calendar girl, and high-end escort. Says she was in a bad place, found faith, and takes accountability — contrasting with Brena who does not.

QuoteAfter being called a liar for the video, Brena says: "I actually thought you were going to like me when I came on here."

“I thought you were going to like me like as a person”

QuoteChris (51yo) shows old photo claiming she looks the same or better than 12 years ago. Brian says she looked better then.

OtherTwitch raid sent to "Well Grandma" — an 82-83yo woman playing World of Warcraft retail (level 83 character). Brian calls her a legend.

Topics Discussed

Opening announcements / show setup

Brian opens show from Santa Barbara. Standard announcements: Streamlabs donations, TTS ($200+), Discord (discord.gg/whatever), Twitch simulcast, merch, Instagram DMs for guests.

Guest introductions

All guests introduce name, age, location, occupation. Order: Eva (20, LA, pre-law), Brena (28, Houston, lingerie/OnlyFans), Lindsay (20, music/DJ), Paula (36, Boston, ex-Marine/dog trainer), Lindsy (36, Orange County, sales director), Athena (36, Texas, homesteader), Chris (51, Tulsa, Pink Pill creator), Alexis (34, married, stay-at-home mom), Jake (28, Australian, Rattlesnake TV).

Relationship status round

Each guest describes relationship status and longest relationship. Notably: Chris is in a relationship (promise ring, ~1 year); Alexis is married (11 years); all others single. Paula and Lindsy revealed as old best friends reuniting after 19 years.

Disagreements with the show / media bias in dating discourse

Chris challenges the show for leaning too heavily on blaming women; Jake and Brian defend. Discussion of whether men have comparable dating flaws (porn addiction, doom scrolling, lack of ambition).

Tattoos — attractiveness, mental illness correlation, deal-breakers

Brian and panel discuss tattoos on women. 1990 study cited linking tattoos to mental disorders. Jake says tattoos near deal-breaker on women (would not want wife's body tattooed). Panel split. Face/neck tattoos are universal red flags.

Video games as a hobby — red flag?

Quick panel vote: is playing video games a male red flag? General answer: depends on frequency/severity. Basement-dweller scenario = deal-breaker.

Porn and relationships — is watching porn cheating?

Eva says watching porn is cheating (engaging in one-way sex act). Brena says OnlyFans subscriptions are different from regular porn. Panel mostly disagrees that porn = cheating. Jake: undesirable but not cheating. Jake compares women's social media attention-seeking to men's porn use.

Brena Black OnlyFans confrontation — "conservative God-fearing OnlyFans creator"

Brena introduced as "conservative and God-fearing OnlyFans creator." Panel presses contradiction with Christian faith. Debate on whether OnlyFans is sex work/prostitution. Brena says God does not judge her; Athena counters using Bible (stumbling block, lust as sin). Alexis reveals she had same contradictions in past (escort/recovery).

Partner preferences round — what do you want?

Each guest shares what they want in a partner. Brian gives his full list: natural body supremacist, introverted/quiet/modest, low body count, no drugs/bars/clubs, back scratches. Eva: taller, dry humor, open to McDonald's worker. Brena: Andrew Tate/Joe Rogan type. Lindsay: no self-filtering needed.

Red flags you would overlook

Round: Eva: guy having female best friend. Lindsay: colorful past. Paula: won't overlook anything. Lindsy: hygiene (chewing open-mouthed). Athena: own flaws she cannot hold double-standard on. Chris: thinks too many women call everything a red flag. Brena: past drug addiction, gambling, felonies (has overlooked). Jake: can't cook (fixable).

Politics discussion — women voting for Trump vs Kamala; 2024 election

Eva (Republican) says she voted Kamala Harris; panel pushes back hard. Debate on Trump's grab comment, border/immigration, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. endorsement cited. Women's right to vote debate (Jake/male guests argue women should be eligible for draft if they vote). Athena says most women at table are conservative-leaning.

Women's peak attractiveness / aging debate

Debate: is the average 35-year-old woman hotter than the average 25-year-old? All panelists say no except Chris (argues darker skin ages slower, shows old photo). Brian says stats peak between 20-24.

Brena Black video confrontation — tattoo evidence

Brian confronts Brena with video from Discord viewers showing woman with matching tattoo performing oral sex. Brena denies it is her throughout. Paula (ex-military analyst) examines video and confirms identity from tattoo, eyebrows, nose, hands. Brena claims deepfake. Jake calls her a liar. Panel concludes she is lying.

Eva — virgin, waiting for marriage, political science views

Brian goes through Eva's pre-show notes: virgin waiting until marriage (would not have sex even if certain she'd marry him). Prefers traditional relationship with provider husband. Would stay home if husband provided. Identifies as Republican but voting Kamala.

Brena escorting allegation

Brian presents escorting rate card ($1800/hr coffee, $3k lunch, $5k dinner, $8k overnight, $500+ island trips). Brena denies. Brian says 80% confident on escorting vs 100% confident on video.

Alexis reveals past as escort/bikini barista

After confronting Brena, Brian reveals Alexis disclosed in pre-show notes she was a bikini barista, calendar girl, and high-end escort ~13 years ago. Alexis says she acknowledges it was wrong, found faith, does not justify it. Brena says this is hypocritical given Alexis judged her.

Interracial dating / Chris's book "Swirling"

Chris discusses her 2012 book "Swirling" — advocated for Black women to date interracially. 42% Black women single at time. Notes Black men date interracially more. Argues all races should date whoever they want.

Charm school / etiquette argument

Chris argues women should bring back charm school etiquette. Notes guest on previous show stood up without considering on-camera exposure.

When to have sex — first date vs. commitment gatekeeping

Discussion of making men wait for sex. Brian: making a non-virgin wait sends mixed signal. Reddit post read: woman slept with FWB while making boyfriend wait; he blocked her when she confessed. Alexis: slept with husband 3 weeks in, told him she wanted to marry him. Jake: promiscuity of past affects partner value.

True rate me / physical attractiveness rating scale

Brian shows Reddit's "True Rate Me" women's rating primer (facial harmony, midface ratio, eye area, skin, features, bones). Panel discusses objectivity vs. subjectivity of physical ratings.

Age gap relationships

Debate on age gap relationships. Alexis argues optimal is same-age or man slightly older (can play with kids, share experiences). Chris: depends on stage of life; 18+45 has maturity gap. Jake: 5-10 year male-older gap is optimal. Athena: younger men struggle to lead older women. Examples: Ian Garry (UFC, 26+40yo), Aaron Taylor-Johnson, Macron.

Most challenging thing about dating as a single person

Round-table: each single guest describes biggest dating challenge. Eva: men not giving enough notice (last-minute date requests are auto-no). Athena: men resistant to non-physical rotational dating. Chris: people giving up too easily.

Dating apps — swiping strategies, roster/rotational dating

Debate on men mass-swiping vs. women being selective on dating apps. Brian prefers women who show high interest and cut other men after first date. Athena defends having 3-5 non-physical prospects simultaneously as single mom with limited time. Brian argues 52 sequential first dates > simultaneous roster.

Divorce rates by orientation / gay relationships

Brian cites statistic: divorce rates lowest for gay male couples, middle for heterosexual, highest for lesbian couples.

Bear vs. man in the forest / would-you-rather round

Would you rather encounter a random bear or random man in the forest? Eva, Athena, Chris, Lindsy: man. Lindsay and Brena declined/other. Joke round.

Closing / Twitch raid

Brian wraps show. Last call on likes. Twitch raid to "Well Grandma" (82/83yo WoW player). Show ends.

Transcript

Page 1 of 9

Brian Atlaswelcome to the whatever dating Talk podcast where we try to make sense of the modern dating hellscape I'm your host Brian Atlas thanks for tuning in tonight you could have been anywhere in the world but you're here with me I appreciate that we're coming to you live

Brian Atlasfrom Santa Barbara California every Sunday and Tuesday at 5:00 P p.m. Pacific a few quick announcements this podcast is viewer supported heavy YouTube demonetization so please consider donating through streamlabs

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Brian Atlasthe conversation consider send consider sending a TTS text to speech message for the first 30 minutes or so of the show

Brian Atlasthe TTS will be the normal price I I started reading my copy and paste uh TTS is the normal price we're not doing a 30 minute uh first 30 minute thing or whatever so it's going to be uh $200 and

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Brian Atlasuh let's see if you can't catch the full shows of our time 10,000 Lees a year M the audio mute the audio okay you're going to have to get it fixed on the other tab uh while I'm doing this okay

Brian Atlasso we have Clips channels link for that's in the description we have a private patreon members only Discord is it set to BTS before you pull it up yes

Brian Atlasokay okay guys we have Discord discord.gg whatever we post BTS on there guys so if you recall from the last episode we had a kind of

Brian Atlastroll uh kickout situation I posted the BTS of that on our Discord in the behind the scenes tab so discord.gg whatever if you want to check it out the scroll was

Brian Atlasabsolutely Bonker bananas crazy wild so uh be sure to check it out guys and then lastly uh that's pretty much it disclaimer the views expressed by the guests do not necessarily reflect the

Brian Atlasviews of the whatever Channel with that said without further Ado we're going to have the guests introduce themselves so please tell us your name age location and occupation go ahead um I'm Eva I'm

Eva20 and I'm from Los Angeles and I'm a student all right what do you study um political science okay what do you want to go into pre-law so you want to become

Brena/Paula/Alexisan a lawyer yeah do you know what kind of law um I think corporate law corporate law okay what about you I'm Brena black I am CEO of Blackheart

Brena/Paula/Alexislingerie can you see the mic I'm the CEO of Blackheart lingerie I'm a lingerie and swim model and a creative

Brena/Paula/Alexisdirector age 28 and I'm from Houston Texas any school I went to UT got your bachelor's no I

Brena/Paula/Alexisdidn't finish I came out here and became a broadcast journalist what did you study while you were there broadcast journalism makes sense makes sense and

Brena/Paula/Alexisthen for Content creation what do you do for Content creation I create works of art post them on my Instagram like glossy magazine style photo shoots and

Brena/Paula/Alexisyou do uh only fans is that correct I do have an only fans all right what kind of cont content do you do on there sexy

Brena/Paula/Alexislingerie nothing vulgar any like scenes with men no no okay scenes with women no

Lindsaynudity some some okay my name is Lindsay welcome back just spaced out I

Lindsayam 20 years old I in the music industry I DJ and produce music coool I went to community colub

Lindsaywhat were you studying psych psych psych um and you DJ do you sing at all or any I do sing I have some music I'm working on right now

Lindsaylet's hear something let's hear something yeah just start singing in fromont of 10 people I'm trying to even think what

Brian AtlasI I get back to me on that I can't think the audio is still muted just FYI has it

Brena/Paula/Alexisbeen fixed y okay what about you hi I'm Paula I'm from Boston Massachusetts I'm 36 years old and I own a dog training company um I'm kind of from all over the

Brena/Paula/Alexisplace I'm prior military so I moved around a lot and kind of from all over which branch of the military uh I was in the Marine Corps Marine Corps okay uh enlisted officer enlisted uh how long

Lindsywere you in the military eight years what uh what was your rank when you uh discharged staff sergeant staff sergeant okay welcome what about you hello my

Lindsyname is lindsy I'm from originally Illinois and I live in southern Orange County and I'm a sales director for insta

Athenasculpting all right I'm 36 36 all right welcome what about you um my name is Athena I am 36 years old from Texas um I

Athenahave a little Homestead Farm I'm working on starting a farm totable food truck um I also have a small construction business and I'm working on publishing my first children's book this year uh

Brian Atlasjust a question uh are you your glasses are they prescription they are okay how bad's your vision I think it's bad I can't drive without him okay just

Chriswondering what about you my name is Chris I am 51 I was born in Los Angeles

Chrisgrew up in Lancaster and settled in Tula I am a Creator um my umbrella company is called the pink pill I have a channel called that name and coures and I've

Chrisalso launched a body care company called water body care and and also the co-author of swirling I gave that to you earlier that I give the book yeah thank you I signed it what what is uh so

Chriswhat's the book swirling how to date mate and relate mixing race culture and Creed it's all about interracial relationships from a black woman's perspective okay well we'll certainly get get into that a bit later on in the

Brian Atlasshow and then uh are you the one in like uh the Youtube chat I sometimes see the pink pill is that is that you that's me all right so you're one of the Chatters all right very cool and shout out to the Chatters I told I would shout them out

Brena/Paula/Alexisboom hey guys what about you uh my name is Alexis I am 34 years old I am a full-time stay-at-home wife and mother and I also work fulltime from home as an

Brena/Paula/Alexisoffice managercorporate secretary for my family-owned business and you said 35 right 34 I'll be 35 at the end of the month so 35 I guess gotcha okay

Jake34 yep my name is Jake 28 years old YouTube channel called rattlesnake TV uh podcast reality based and that's about it for me all right my name is Brian

Brian AtlasAtlas 35 Santa Barbara California uh over the hill YouTuber I guess um going around the table once more what is everybody's current relationship status so

Brian Atlasare you single talking stage situationship Friends with Benefits relationship married polyu sex C terum whatever it may be if you're single how long have you been single and what's the longest relationship you've ever been in

Brian Atlasstarting with you go ahead um I'm is audio sorry is the audio muted no I don't think so uh we just had the TTS not come

Brian Atlasthrough one sec that's peculiar uh go ahead with your relationship sis

Evaplease um I'm single and I've been single since last October and my longest relationship was like a year I

Brena/Paula/Alexisthink I am also single and I've been single for 3 years my longest

Brena/Paula/Alexisrelationship was 7 years and I was in an engagement that ended in that seven-year

Lindsayrelationship I am currently single my longest relationship was like 3 4 years on and off and I've been single for about a

Brena/Paula/Alexisyear I'm also currently single I've been single for 2 years my longest relationship was 11 years um and that was with my ex-husband so I'm divorced

Brian Atlasand that's that I apologize I need everybody to repeat there um that was not the appro okay please start again intros or relation relationship status go ahead

Evaokay I'm single um I've been single since last October and I think my longest relationship was like maybe a year and two months so you've been single for about a

Brena/Paula/Alexisyear yeah I think so longest relationship a year and like 2 months maybe what about you I'm single my last relationship was 3 years ago which was

Brena/Paula/Alexisan engagement uh to a man that I dated for seven years okay so longest relationship s years engaged never married yep and you said

Lindsayyou've been single for 3 years M okay what about you I'm currently single my longest relationship was 3 four years on and off and I've been single for around a

Brian Atlasyear all right and you were on the show about a month ago uh any prospects since the last time you were on the show same old roster still a

Lindsayroster changed up the roster a little bit though weren't you involved with a man who was also involved with your mom what or that's so not

Lindsayme or wait who was the guy who was the guy who no your roommate excuse me right my roommate what uh I moved actually I we're not roommates not your mom you

Lindsaywere involved with a guy who was involved with your roommate oh right is that correct that was correct that was me not my mom did everybody know what did everybody know what was going on or was was someone out of the loop oh

Lindsayit wasn't like we were like dating or anything no one was dating it was just so your roommate's a girl was yeah was a girl yeah and you guys just knew that you were both with the same guy correct

Lindsayhe moved in with those oh really yeah did you share rooms Monday Monday with you Tuesday with your friend exactly it was like every other day you know switch it up back massages for both before bed little bedtime story it was a great

Lindsaygreat sounds like a giving man so do you you not get jealous at all kill of Serial I'm trying to figure out why the TTS isn't working no we weren't no one was ever going to date he's still one of

Brian Atlasmy best friends oh okay yeah was over last night wait he was you the porn guy the porn guy he was over last night he's

Lindsayover every day we cook we're on our meth yeah we sell it Aderall LaVine was my nickname last time so adal LaVine there you go no um we we

Brian Atlasfollow a strict diet so we're always cooking together but did you guys hook up last night a few nights ago okay all right let them Coke kiss and tell there you

Brian Atlasgo and did we talk about your on again off again relationship last episode with who you bit you've had multiple well you said you were in a 3 to four year

Lindsayrelationship which is oh yeah we talked about it last time just on and off how many just remind me how many times was it on and off again three four I told you uncountable it was like a it was

Brena/Paula/Alexisbasically just using drugs I mean it wasn't H okay what about you um I am single I've been single for 2 years and my longest relationship was 11

Brian Atlasyears were you married yes uh how long um how long were you married in the 11y year relationship 11 years how long oh okay how long were you

Brian Atlasguys together 11 years was it a Vegas wedding on um we got married 3 months after we met okay I see okay uh kids yes from the marriage yes okay so you're

Brian Atlasdivorced I'm saying I am y uh when was the divorce uh 2021 okay and so you said you've been single for 2 years have you dated any other guys since the divorce yes I had a

Brena/Paula/Alexislonger term relationship in between that time got it uh you said kids yes from just one father correct how many kids two I CHS a mil

Lindsyall right what about you hi um I am single I my longest relationship was three and a half years I'm not dating anyone what was the other question with

Lindsythat uh how long you been single for oh uh since November of last year 10 months we'll say uh right longest relationship

Brian Atlas3.5 years yeah okay uh was that on on again off again or pretty um I mean there was

Lindsythat was off on and off but not into more so just out of frustration of moments differences okay uh so are there any

Lindsyguys currently in the picture no none no dating apps nope last time you were on the date uh three and a half years ago before I dated or my son's

Brian Atlasfather but you said you've been single for 10 months so I'm assuming 10 months ago you were seeing somebody no I have not seen anybody whatsoever oh the 3.5e relationship ended 10 months ago yes in November I see and that's the father of

Brian Atlasyour kids my son yeah my son how many kids do you have I have one I CH some mil sorry sorry s uh that was Austin who press he's a year and a half okay

Jakeum not married though no okay no dates since then in 10 months no no one no guys in the picture no rebound AB zero

Lindsyrebound zero rebound I swear no believe it or not she's not she's not lying or's watching anybody anybody excuse me anybody approached you

Lindsyabsolutely of course what you just you just kick him to the cab you know I it's not really kicking to the curb it's I'm just really

Lindsynot I just don't think I'm ready to just state right now I have goals Within Myself and I have a child so kind of a

Lindsydifferent life transition and I don't want to waste anyone else's time when I'm you know essentially not there but if it happens it'll happen organically is kind of where my brain's at with it

Brian Atlasyeah my turn yeah yes your turn or wait what uh what who broke up with

Lindsywho um I left it was me yeah why at uh the it wasn't going to go anywhere in the direction I need to and

LindsyI'm 36 years old and I have a child and you know I got to make better choices um for um you uh were you guys living together

Brian Atlasyes okay and uh is he involved with uh your son yes do you guys have split custody no you have full custody uh my

Lindsyson is with me uh lives with me full-time but his dad does have um certain days that you know work out and has this gone through the court system

Lindsyor no no okay so you guys just have a mutual understanding for now essentially for now yeah are you seeking for this to go to the court or I mean nobody wants nobody enjoys going to court period um

Lindsydoes he pay child support he doesn't pay child support you know cuz we haven't gone to court but he does help out here and there with certain aspects

Brian Atlasour son goes to a little school um because I do have to work fulltime um given the new circumstances uh so he does help out with that and just when I when I say child support I don't necessarily mean

Brian Atlaschild support that's that that is through the court but you could have come to some sort of arrangement where he's essentially just paying you yes $1,000 $2,000 a month something like

Brian Atlasthat um he will that he helps with oh like shared expenses like he'll cover with our son's

Lindsyschool um is it private school no it's um it's more so of like a homeschool um group mhm just I I

Lindsyamum I delay certain things with my son's medical stuff so I don't okay he can't go into a normal daycare given the circumstances of those delays do you not vaccinated what you're

Brian Atlasnot vaccinated no I was going to say best anyway you were going to say what anyways so um going back to you you have two kids right yes

Brian Atlasuh shared custody with the father Yes 50/50 okay uh through the court or No Yes through the court who brought it to

Brena/Paula/Alexiscourt you were him it was Mutual Mutual mhm really yes Mutual to the court we just both

Brena/Paula/Alexiskind of decided that we weren't the right fit for each other and it just wasn't going anywhere and so we filed for a separation and it went through the court system in terms of making the arrangement you were married yeah so

Brian Atlaswould you had to go through the court to get the divorce okay and then that you probably bundled in the child yes custody component there um child custody agreement yeah does he uh pay child

Brena/Paula/Alexissupport to you he does okay and just curious how much I'm not going to put a number on it but it's not enough I live in Boston it's very very expens

LindsyBoston did my accent come out I'm not even from there I'm from Chicago so oh okay all right we actually just saw each other after 19

Lindsyyears she flew out to visit me to come here I peer pressured her it's a Reunion yeah we were best friends in high school

Athenahere we are what about you um single since New Year's um this past New Year's um I've gone on dates and stuff I try to

Athenakeep things like casual I just want to like get to know someone before you know jumping into anything um let's see my longest relationship was 8 and 1 half years with my ex-husband um

Athenawe did uncontested divorce um he just recently started paying child support which is kind of helpful um yeah he sees him when he can

Brian Atlasuh how many kids do you have one just one okay all right uh who initiated the divorce um he asked me to do all the filing he's

Athenalike you just do it and then I'll sign it um but it was um a mutual thing Mutual split

Chrisyeah okay um I'm currently in a relationship my longest relationship um was for 20

Chrisyears over 20 years um I was married and divorced and I recently got a promise ring

Chriscongratulations how long you been in your current relationship uh next next month it'll be a year since we met any kids with him no no we're just in

Brian Atlasgeneral in general yes I have four four kids same father no one of them is with someone different so three kids from one father one kid from another father MH

Chrisbut none from your current one-year relationship I'm 51 that's out of the discussion I now you never know um yeah

Chrisno we're done uh how are the kids um my oldest is 26 then I have a

Chris21 19 and 15 got it okay yeah and married just one time yes all right who initiated the divorce it was Mutual

ChrisMutual Mutual I mean it was it was it was def he said go ahead file was similar uh story as my neighbor here uh but it was definitely mutual and also

Chrisvery amicable eventually we live three miles away from each other uh we co-parent pretty well and did you receive child support no from either of the two fathers we do 5050 5050 so no

Chrischild support from either of the two fathers oh no no no it's a 50/50 but um with the first child yeah I did receive child support but she's now almost 30 so that's been done a long time ago and the

Brian Atlasfirst child that was the one child that you had with just uh yeah and then you had three kids from yeah I see all right

Brena/Paula/Alexiswhat about you um I am married I have um my longest relationship would be I think 11 years is that your current that's my

Brena/Paula/Alexishusband yes okay all right kids uh yes I have four biological pregnant with my fifth and I have two

Brian Atlasstepdaughters so that will be seven Al together busy Gil good for you wait it are you currently who's currently pregnant here me oh you okay all right how far long

Lindsayare you I am 6 and a half months pregnant all right congrats um boy my fifth boy so you have four yeah my fifth boy yeah fifth boy that's awesome and

Brian Atlasthe step kids are they boys as well they're girls okay yeah and uh all your children they are your husbands yes okay all right got it okay Jake what

Jakeabout you yep still single since 2021 longest was a year and a half and yeah dating to marry so I don't really date too much at the moment all right rock

Brian Atlasand rock and roll uh so no idea what's going on with the stream Labs messages kill of Serial I'm still trying to fix it not sure what's going on here um so I

Brian Atlasthink why don't we do this does anybody he I a lot of there's a lot of pre-show notes by the way I'm going to try my best to get through all of them but there's a lot uh and I know

Brian Atlassome of you included some disagreements in your pre-show notes but perhaps some of you who didn't include any in your pre-show notes or want to raise them now uh any disagreements that anybody has either with maybe you've seen something

AthenaJake said or something I've said that you'd like to uh touch on we can start there I like to address the disagreements as

Athenathey happen personally I can't really think about things okay anybody else

Chrisyeah what you got hand teacher um I just met you so I Jak yeah Jak I would say the majority of the shows that I've seen

Chrishas been with you and Andrew bran and I have to say that yeah there's a lot wrong with what's going on with women

Chrisbut you guys tilt really hard towards it being like the women being the primary Catalyst for the issues that are going

Chrison in the dating world when it's really both like there's really a lot of things that are going wrong with both genders

Chrisand like just blaming pointing fingers it's just boring you know like let's just figure it out you want to take this yeah sure I

Brian Atlasmean well I don't think think uh I don't think I actually say that like I don't I don't actually say it's mostly women's fault when it comes to

Jakethe whole just the [ __ ] of the dating landscape although it probably is so I'm prepared to actually have the conversation what makes you think that

Christhey say that it's mostly women what gives you that impression um well because the majority of the the panelists sorry the majority of the

Chrispanelists are women and uh admittedly some are very unfortunate in their

Christhought processes but I don't see men on at this table who are also dumb and make dumb choices it seems to just be like

Chrisprimarily the women what do you think of some of the dumb choices that men make what are some of those things you're talking oh there's so many um well I would say for one Doom

Chrisscrolling Instagram for what they think a you know the woman that they want um listening to old people tell them that

Chrisrelationships and marriage aren't worth it um spending too much time on devices no social skills not being able to

Chriscommunicate read body language uh actually interact and um I think certain Antiquated ideas about how this whole

Christhing works with with couples like I think that there's a lot of um I don't know on both sides there's just some really outrageous expectations that I

Jakethink so we to bring B to you've got Doom scrolling you've got unable to communicate read body language these sorts of things when do the people on this show espouse those sorts of

Chrisbehaviors that they're correct no I'm I'm I'm not that's not what you asked me you asked me um what are some of the problems the men are having yeah yeah but I'm making I'm making a bigger point you said that they're primarily blaming

Chriswomen which would mean that they're enabling the bad behavior of men at which point have they enabled bad behavior of men or encouraged it it's more of like an example like exemplary so it's implied so there's things that are actually said and then there's

Christhings that are implied so when the men come on it seems to be that they're going after the women I've I haven't really seen them go after men in the same with the same energy except for there was like two guys who were in the

Chrisporn industry and they kind of that would be a good example yeah so um but for the most part it's mainly the women and directing what men think is wrong with

Jakewom maybe it's because with the women they invite a broader cross-section of the population of women so they get all different perspectives whereas the men tend to generally speaking think a reasonably similar way if you get like a

Jakea guy like myself Andrew Wilson Charlie Kirk guys like this we all have a reason with with a lot of disagreements we have a reasonably similar worldview whereas with the girl there's a lot more to pick AP up because you guys are all so

Jakedifferent there's like 10 of you so you think there's just more subject matter there um certainly I don't know I never thought about that yeah because I mean there are a lot of issues with guys and girls I

Jakethink with guys one of the biggest issues is porn overc consumption of internet porn and like you said Doom scrolling lack of motivation ambition but you know there's a lot of societal factors that encourage this there's also

Chrisa lot with women but I think it's just brought the Forefront more because there's so many of you so are you're saying that like more men are suffering from these things so it's like pretty

Chrismuch the same but wouldn't it be kind of interesting and good if more men would come to podcasts like this and express what their frally generally speaking men

Jakein their own Social Circles like hash these things out with each other there's not really much of a need for it because the world tells us these sorts of things if if Brian was doing something absurd I'd just tell him hey Brian you're doing something crazy but generally with women

JakeI think you guys tend to be much less accountable to each other and to yourselves like you we see women who will say I'm a 10 I'm a 10 I'm a 10 I'm the best thing since sliced bread but with guys we just don't act like that because we really can't afford to or

Jakeelse the world would just punch Us in the face so men are conditioned to not have confidence that's not confidence that's delusion if it's false what you're saying then it's then it's

Jakedelusion okay it's a bit different because like like guys like my my closest friends are my two brothers and the level of competitiveness that we have with each other is you guys would would probably cry if you heard some of the conversations that we had with each

Jakeother cuz it's just so honest and accountable so I can't really get away with older brothers and even though I I am a woman I I do understand yeah yeah 100% but there's certain and also just

Jakein something Jordan Peterson says a lot if you guys ever listened to him that men tend to operate within a structure where there's physical consequences if it gets to a certain point so if I say something to a guy it can escalate to a point where there's going to be physical

Jakeconsequences so generally we tend to regulate our relationships which regulates ourselves and our level of delusion and how rude we can be Etc but women unfortunately don't really have the same thing so it's interesting when

LindsayI think when when the opinions are expressed I have a question like going back on it maybe um I feel like there's a bunch of ways you can interpret like write yourself one out of 10 I feel like there's many ways you can interpret it

Lindsayand you know there's a way what do you think like walking down the street like what would you view me as versus like what do I see myself as cuz I would rate myself like higher because I have

Lindsayconfidence Within Myself to dress how I want I'm growing with my career like I do those things so I view myself as like I'm expressing how I'd like to but maybe

Lindsayyou can interpret the question of like cuz I don't think that's delusion you know like expressing yourself how you want and all of those things and viewing that as like a 10 but let's see I think that the kind of the definition of

Jakedelusion is if you view yourself in a way that's not compatible with how the rest of the world sees you and like because we have to regulate in society what is real and what isn't and then

Jakewhen somebody sees themselves as a 10 and in societ society societally objectively speaking there may be a six or a seven or somewhere probably in the middle of the bell curve then that would be delusion now there's nothing wrong

Jakewith having self-confidence and self respect that's a fantastic thing and having in in intrinsic dignity but I think that if you are actually a confident person then you're confident enough to say that you know I'm a I'm a

Jakesix or a seven or I'm not I'm not the best thing ever because a 10 a 10 is is a remarkable feat if you ever see a 10 you like you look three times correct I I could see that yeah um I mean

Lindsayobviously everyone has different types and all of these things that can contribute to like you know I might be like that person's a ten and you might be like that person I wouldn't even say hi to you know and obviously those

Jakethings and the definitely sub subjective interpretations and you know I might like Eastern European girls and another guy might like Latin girls we might see them very different but generally speaking when we're looking at rating

Jakeourselves it's on a a global sort of scale like we can get a reasonably accurate estimate of where we think we are I could see that but also this is just another thing as to why it's more

Jakeinteresting when girls flesh out their proper worldviews is because you guys get a lot more male attention like if you're a pretty girl and you have Instagram and you post some nice photos you're going to get a lot of attention

Jakefrom guys of course but us I mean I've got a big YouTube channel that's like nearly 700,000 subscribers I only ever get men who INXS me you know guys who say I like I like what you do so we

Lindsaydon't have this constant flattery oh my God I don't disagree with you on any of that I mean the men viewing your stuff you know like you probably I haven't seen you I'm sorry but you probably go

Lindsayon as like a male role model to these men you know like women I in my opinion like Role Models like I want to look at women as my role models like I can respect a man in his opinion

Lindsayand like I do all the time I'm like I watch male YouTubers love Ben Shapiro love Brett Cooper and I look up to both but you know that's probably why but

Jakethat can be an issue that with men you know that they're giving women and like she said Doom scrolling and all this is another big thing I mentioned porn before and things that you mentioned were all great points as well but also

Jakei' say sing is another big thing it's like something that's heavily heavily discouraged on his show is going to only fans Pages paying for that sort of thing

Jakeand giving unrequired attention to to to to women but yeah go yeah so I wanted to say that um you might personally not

Chrishave a lot of women coming to your Instagram page because of your platform and what it is that you're shooting for but look at all these muscle guys who

Chrisare like advertising how they can do 100 pull-ups and you know 60,000 squads you see all the girls hey baby hey like they get so

Jakemuch attention to they get so much attention I mean it's to say that men don't ever get that kind of attention do you think if we put put on a linear scale like this and we showed all of the

Jakemost attractive women we'll say we'll say the top 5% of women compared to the 5% most attractive men do you think that there'd be an imbalance in who gets more attention you know what these days I would have to say no I'd say maybe one

Jakeor 2% skewed more to the women but I'd say it'd be pretty even I'd say that the top 5% of women would just get a constant influx of absolute just sing

Athenadiarrhea going their way all day every day left and right well you're you're like a rockars you don't even have to be the

Jaketop 5% I know this um and you get a lot of attention all the time I would say that the amount of attention that a pretty girl gets on Instagram would be would you could liken that maybe to Elvis Presley in his prime with the kind

Jakeof attention that he would get because it was Global you had lots of different women from all around the world every time I don't think you everyone ever sees but you know lots of different women all all around the world but with girls some of these girls have hundreds of thousands millions of followers and

Jakeit's just it's Global they've got this fan base like the Buddha never had this sort of a a cult following or any of figures Gandhi never had this what about prison Bay remember prison Bay what's

Chrisprison Bay I might be a bit beyond my time prison Bay was literally a guy who was in prison but very took a mug shot

Chrisvery good-looking I he exploded now he is an international model and he's dating an ays so he's dating who hm

Chriswho's he dating some erist the last I checked I mean he left his family apparently he was married at the time so he left his wife and kids because the internet and the whole world told him

Jakethat he was fine and so he decided to live his dream and can I just say just quick little show of hands does anybody here agree that the top 5% of men would get the same amount of attention as the

Jaketop 5% of women not at all not at all no you think that they would yes the top 5% of of like good looking men on the internet for sure do you think they'd get the same amount of inboxes and they'd get the same amount of of like

Lindsayjust required attention from random girls mhm I think that that's pretty that's pretty delusional if I'm honest I think I think that they get the same amount of attention like if I'm telling a friend like oh my God Justin Bieber you know what I mean but I'm not sliding

Jakeinto Justin Bieber's DMs like I I don't you know what I mean so I think like I think it's pretty it's pretty quantifiable though because if you just look at only fans who are the top 5% of creators who are the top 50% you

Brena/Paula/Alexisstruggle to find a guy maybe a few male I think it's also like socially predictable that men always look and scroll and comment where like when you go on to even like a better

Brena/Paula/Alexislooking guy's page and you scroll through comments it's almost like cringy when women it a different social acceptance because because men are Hunters so like they're

Jakealways the ones going after women whereas like when a woman does it it's very like distasteful I say that's probably the best point that could be made in regard to this is that women do it behind closed doors they talk with their girlfriends oh this guy so

Brena/Paula/Alexisdirectly like to the man but not publicly if if you're talking to somebody then you'll like tell them they're handsome or you know whatever but you're not going to do it publicly I actually think the percentage would be

Brena/Paula/Alexisnot even close yeah I would say so too honestly I approach people publicly all the time like on Instagram but you're one out of how many women that's why it's not an even score she's saying wait

Brian Atlasso I do want to come back to what you're saying and uh I'm no idea what's going on with the TTS not working um so I apologize guys we'll try to get it figured out um so your

Brian Atlasargument was what essentially you're saying that men and women when it comes to their difficulty interacting with the opposite sex is about equivalent or what

Chriswas your argument no no he was talking about um in terms of of of like attention and attraction on Instagram he was asking me if he thought that the

Chrisattention that the women got was equal to the men I'd say that with the women maybe there's a few percentage more but pretty much it's half and half I think he said that in response to an original I think he said that in response to

JakeOriginal Point you made what was your original point I'd like to address it oh the original critique was that she thinks that um we like the the podcast tends to skew more towards blaming women

Brian Atlasfor for the dating problems no no no so you you were making another argument essentially kind of saying dating is

Brian Atlasdamn is about easy it's like easier for men or what was it no I didn't say that can I add something to no no I want to get back to her convers I think what her

Lindsayargument was was saying how there men have issues too like at the beginning she was giving examples of what men do wrong in relationships and she's also expressing that you guys kind of okay I

Brian Atlasthink please just allow me to get this through so I think you were saying something along the lines of the men get about equivalent romantic and sexual attention

Brian Atlasthat women get he was talking specifically about Instagram though are you sure it it was it was it was before that I used Instagram I'm pretty sure Jake was using that in response to something you said so just what's your

Brian Atlasactual position men and women have receive about equivalent sexual and romantic attention no absolutely not am I am I being gaset here chat can somebody in

Athenathe chat please tell me what you said earlier she was saying that they're essentially not that men aren't being held accountable but um because it's

Athenamostly women here yall address the issues with women but we don't hear so much the other side of it and I I wanted to interject and say a lot of people say

Athenathe 70% of divorces are initiated by women but when you take out certain statistics and I I think this is probably where you were going along with this if you take

Jakeout abuse if you take out infidelity the 70% isn't exactly 7030 it it it changes depends what you mean by abuse though because if you look at what the Psychological Association says about

Jakeabuse it's it's like it can be things like gaslighting so Brian could divorce me if we were gas lighting him about the chat or anything like that you know there's a bunch of different things emotional abuse is is a big umbrella

Athenaterms but even if you took that 23% and you just like cut that in half cuz that it was like 23% was because of um abuse cut that in half cuz like or even a

Athenathird because like you said you can say abuse is whatever um it still changes the statistics a little bit so I think

Athenait's a little exaggerated and I think it kind of honestly panders to men who don't want to take accountability I think accountability is an issue like

Jakeacross the board more so with women but there's also a lot of men who also lack accountability well I mean the statistics would still be far in favor of women breaking up them breaking up

Jakethe families and breaking up divorces but I mean it also blows out to like 90% when you look at college educated women the higher education level yeah much higher so I think that statistic in itself says a lot about the Dynamics in

Jakea marriage and what what works IND doctrination in the in the University system Y and also in terms of hypogamy because college educated women who earn a lot of money and have very successful careers are much like more likely to

Jakelook at elsewhere if if they feel the man isn't above them if they feel the man is below or equal much like much more likely to look elsewhere I think men uh tend to need a I don't think this

Lindsayis controversial men need a father figure and I think that men tend to look up to people and men that look up to you like I like some of the views like I could kind of get an understanding when

Lindsayyou relate it to like maybe Charlie Kirk or something but and then men te to copy like people that they like so men online might see that person like there's a percentage of men that look up to you

Lindsaykind of Follow Your sort of guidelines when it comes to dating and then there's the men that see other guys like treating women horribly and all of those things so that could play a factor also

Jakein like how men like that's an issue like you're talking about um like guys who have certain Role Models online and Role Models not might not be conducive to what's what's productive in life is that is that what you're saying yeah but

JakeI think that particularly with this podcast it gets a bad in that regard that they it's that it somehow doesn't sort of cater to that message but if you look at a guy like Andrew who's on all the time he's got you know five kids and

Jakehe's happily married and he's contributing to sort of the the apparatus that is of the healthy Society you got guys like Charlie Kirk he's married with kids and and they're having

Jakethese conversations so back to your critique about the podcast I would ask what what exactly are the messages that you think that are being told on this podcast or how do you think men are

Chrisbeing fed a message that of that lacks accountability if you will um well I would say that men do tend to go harder they'll be

Chrisblunt you know there's a there's definitely a shorter amount of time to tell it straight than beat around the

Chrisbush right um however there's also this element of well feminism women are you know all 304s and you you know they they

Chrisdon't want to get married anymore they don't want to have children and you know all of these do you think that's true or do you think that's false um I would say that there is some truth to those things but it's not all of them do you think I

JakeI don't I don't think we'd ever really talk in a monolith when we when we speak about these things we would never say all women this or that but the the statistics bear out these these facts that people are getting married less

Jakewomen are much less incentivized these days to get married and to pair bond that's why why I think this podcast is particularly interesting but it gets written off a lot because what we what we're talking about here is dating and people might you know think oh dating

Jakegood news though but just one second um when we're talking about dating that's that's peir bonding that's this is like the seeds of what then creates a flower which is a family and then hopefully a thriving Jungle which is a society of of

Jakehappy families and the nuclear family and this and that so this donated $18 nearly now this is why this podcast I

Jakefind it very fascinating and interesting is because we're kind of like reaching around in the dark and waiting through waiting through the dark and trying to figure out the dating Market which is what is where we pair bond and and what

Jakeeventually creates a healthy Society so they it's why it can be very chaotic at times M well the good news is that divorce is actually down

Chris18% since um they did a study the census did one it was way back in 2016 uh it came up on my feed um it said red

Chrispill was wrong about divorce and so it was um a whole doesn't sound coll no but then I I I double checked because they did attach a uh a link to the census and

Chrisso I was able to look at the report myself and divorces are down and get this it's because Millennials saw their Gen X Boomer parents getting divorced

Jakeall over the place and they said they didn't want to do that yes there are less interested to see the numbers of this because I think that what you're probably talking about I would hesitate to get to guess but I'm I'm going to guess anyway is that you're talking about new marriages on a shorter time

Chrisscale and it's not over last we talking about new marriage and they're saying that these Millennial marriages are lasting Beyond 5 years Millennials are only like 31 no Millennials um

LindsayMillennials starts at 19 isn't it yeah Millennial starts at 19 divorces could be down though because less people are getting married is it like based on a

Lindsaypercentage of um you take 10 people like it's that's a big factor too less people getting married obviously less people getting divorced and and who's to say they're not going to get divorced in the

Evanext few years is aren't we comparing it to studies with like much more longetivity than than what we're talking about now we're talking about just 5 years in

Brena/Paula/Alexiscomparison to studies of like 30 plus years exactly a consensus from 2016 is almost a decade so I don't really know how relevant that is now cuz I'm pretty sure that during Co we had the highest

Brena/Paula/AlexisSpike of divorces and that was only three years ago so I don't really know how accurate that is actually marriages went up during co yo can you ask the chat if if they are hearing this I don't

Brian Atlasthink I can see the chat can I no but can you just ask them uh Hey chat can you guys hear the TTS can you guys because they might hear

Jakeit but maybe we're not Brian wants to know if the chat can hear the T DS he's reading it now should we get back into it Brian they're saying no okay go ahead

Chrisokay cool where were you were saying that uh marriages were down in Co is that what I heard um no I I think that um if my if I'm correct they were up

Chriselse to do was much else to do right I go in and get a divorce either yeah yeah there was a lot of things that were that were held up but here here's what I

Christhink it is honestly I think that there are less people getting married but the people who are getting married are being very strategic and intentional about it they're not going in willy-nilly and so

Christhey're they mean it more and they're also older so um the average marriage now for women is 30 and so they're older they've you know they've put in some

Christime for what it what they feel they need or whatever they were missing so they can make these relationships work and honestly like those are going to be like there at some point we're going to have two different classes there's a lot

Jakeof there's a lot of data that indicates that the later people um get married the the actually the worse off they are that's not what the new data because if you have a and there's there's plenty of studies that show that women who get

Jakeinto their 30s and they've had a bunch of sexual experience and and partners and then they eventually get married they're much more likely to get divorced so I think that that's actually not a good thing when you just assume that

Jakethe women because they get to again we have to speak in generalities a women women who's 30 is more likely to have more experience than a woman who's 21 can I interrupt you real quick I think also less people are going through the

Lindsaycourt system too like that can include like divorce cuz people are very much not like that's the statistics probably go off of the court system and who's going to court to file for a divorce but there's probably a bigger percentage of

Lindsaypeople that aren't trusting like the government or like don't want to pay because that's expensive like you got people that can't afford to go to get divorc so it's just a

Chrismutual right only we

Chrisdiving divor but they live separate lives so yes there is in incidence of that you mentioned that um that people are not getting into marriages as

Athenaquickly but there was a study it was only I think a few thousand like 2,000 men that they did and they said most of them and they were in long-term marriages most of them knew within um I think 6 to 8

Athenamonths whether they wanted to get married like men know pretty pretty quickly if they want to get married they know if they see the traits that they want in a woman um and I don't have like a big following on Facebook it's it's a

Athenasmall following but it's mostly married couples and um a majority majority of them whenever I made a uh reel about that specific topic a lot of people got

Athenamad at me for it um but a lot of the married couples that have been married 20 30 40 years were commenting and they're like yeah we got married after a month we got married after 3 months so I

JakeI think that's a healthy thing and I mean generally speaking I can only really speak for myself but I know straight away at least like 80 90% of what I need to know about a woman from dating her for like a week and then

Lindsayafter that it's sort of just weeding out the little things and hoping she doesn't turn into a total psychopath but yeah a lot of people don't date for marriage you know when you do date for marriage which I think is a amazing thing like um

LindsayI wouldn't want to get in a relationship I dated for marriage both times Well what I what I was saying is that when you date for marriage it's a different conversation you know usually like in today's world people are hooking up the

Lindsayfirst time they don't really know they like wait and hear one thing or it's considered like I've been on dates where someone's like sorry to trauma dump but if you're dating for marriage that's not trauma

Lindsaydumping it's getting to know somebody my man said to you um sorry to trauma Dum I've I've heard that multiple times I bet that turned your on big time I sorry to trauma dump and then starts

Lindsaycrying like that's that's also the difference like you know dating for marriage day one you're like this is me this is where I grew up this is my family situation I do this for work but some people are like am I talking too

Lindsaymuch am I doing this is this wrong because it's not like like a norm especially I think I'm younger than most of the panel and so I have a different perspective of like people my age that are in the dating but how did they

Lindsayapproach it were they like these are all my problems start crying or were they like hey the this is my baggage just so you know no it was a it was like this happened to me they I feel like it's different when they say this is my

Jakebaggage I'm working on it I think that this is just a big problem these days with with the conditioning we have around um mental illness and the conditioning we have around a lot of the

Jakeuh just basically what's seen as normal what's seen as regular and uh guys are feeding into this as well and guys should be taught responsibility and they should be taught how to be stoic and how

Jaketo deal with their own problems but unfortunately now a lot of the time these guys are being taught that the more messed up you are the better the more autism and uh this and that and I have blue hair and I'm like neurodiverse

Jakeor whatever they call themselves these days a lot of women I oh women are women are worse 100% worse with women unfortunately it's also seeped into the male population so yeah unfor you guys

Lindsayhave to the percentage on that is not equal cuz women are usually it's a I worked in treatment like rehabs and treatments and a lot of the percentage of people have actual autism where they

Lindsaydon't understand completely like what it means to be a man or a woman so they're like H you know they get lost or it's women that like when you go by they them I'm not saying this forever everyone not

Lindsaysaying I whatever a lot of that is women that don't want to associate with being a female because of trauma they're like no one's going to Target me problem with the whole transgender movement is like a lot of these kids end up being gay when

Jakethey're older like the young young guys a lot of women you guys will know that when you're a teenage girl you have a lot of body image issues and a lot of hormones happening you're growing breasts and all these sorts of things that goes back with the role model thing

Lindsaytoo people are like looking up to people on YouTube that have blue hair and crying about things or the laziness like bed bed loathing I think is a thing right now like taking bed roding bed

Lindsayroding like I'm going to lay in bed all day for mental health and just like be depressed and that's reframing things to sound good and then you see that online you're like I kind of want to just lay in bed all day and let someone else do everything for me interesting I

Evadefinitely agree I think there's a like really big problem online with people romanticizing mental illness and like eating disorders especially as well like people like to promote that kind of content like it's like it's cute to I

Jakefeel like with with young women it used to be anorexia but now it's transgenderism have you guys seen a shift definitely and like the body positivity it's like okay to like eat as much as you want all day cuz the body

Lindsaypositivity when things are it's it's never promoting Health Online it's like it's you're young people are being targeted and being shot with transition be transgender be gay um have an eating

Jakedisorder whether that's anorexic or not like it's just being flushed at you in other countries that's not happening make America healthier what's your podcast that it's about debates I analyze debates like long form debates

Jakebreak them down into a more sort of palatable format and then give my own two cents worth and talk about f facts and stats and figures and all those sorts of things what did you think of

Jakethe recent debate between Cala and Trump I thought that Trump missed a few opportunities but he I thought he

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