Elon Musk WATCHES Whatever?! Andrew Wilson! HEATED DEBATE With Liberal Feminist?! | Dating Talk #140

Date: 2024-03-04

Duration: 6h 43m

Guests

Brian Atlas

MMalia (DT140)>

MMalik (DT140)>

MMichaela (DT140)>

BBella (DT140)>

CCeleste (DT140)>

MMadison (DT182)>

AAndrew Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00TTS/Donations(audience)

SPEAKER_02Malik(guest)

SPEAKER_03Esme(guest)

SPEAKER_04Celeste(guest)

SPEAKER_05Bella(guest)

SPEAKER_06Malia(guest)

SPEAKER_07Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_08Media/Clips(audience)

SPEAKER_10Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_12Celeste/Madison(guest)

SPEAKER_13Michaela(guest)

SPEAKER_14JoJo(guest)

Key Moments

QuoteBrian Atlas opens show, noting Elon Musk replied to a Whatever clip tweet.

“welcome to the whatever dating Talk podcast... we had a little love this weekend we had Ellen musk reply to a tweet that had our video in it”

QuoteBrian shows the clip that got Elon Musk's reply: JoJo saying 'I don't think you can be sexist towards men and I don't think you can be racist towards white people'.

“I don't think you can be sexist towards men and I don't think you can be racist towards white people... Elon Musk responded... somebody shared that it got 8 million views”

QuoteAndrew Wilson introduces himself as host of The Crucible.

“my name is Andrew Wilson I am the host of The One and Only Crucible one of the fastest growing debate channels on the internet”

Key MomentMalia reveals she's been celibate for 1.5 years without specific reason, gets 20-30 Hinge likes/day but only accepts ~1.

“I've been celibate for a year and a half not for any particular reason... usually on hinge I'll wake up with like 20 or 30 [likes]... I only like match with one”

Key MomentRatings round begins: Brian asks everyone to self-rate looks on 1-10 scale.

“Stiffler is very curious to ask everyone to rate their looks on a scale of 1 to 10 starting with you going around the table”

QuoteAndrew Wilson sarcastically self-rates as a 10 on looks.

“I'm a 10 for sure explain why there you have it”

Key MomentBrian calls out JoJo's body count claim: she said body count doesn't matter but won't reveal it — implying it does matter.

“I think body count matters so I'm not going to reveal it for that reason... that question tends to be asked in response to women saying that they think body count doesn't matter... but then they have a quite a bit of hesitation when it comes to revealing their own body count”

Key MomentCeleste: story of 4-year on/off relationship with heroin addict begins. She met him at 21 when he claimed 2 years clean.

“you dated a heroin addict on and off for four years... there were more than five times on and off... he relapsed on four separate occasions I honestly couldn't tell you if it was four or more there were five I think maybe was five six”

Key MomentCeleste reveals she hid the heroin addict relationship from her family to protect his image in their eyes.

“they didn't for four years this was going on on and off where this guy was taking heroin and he never told your folks... no... I was not telling my parents to protect his image”

Key MomentJoJo argues women are oppressed in the US, citing Blizzard California lawsuit as example.

“a big one is the whole blizzard case with the lawsuit with California... the state of California sued blizzard because of the unequal treatment of women in the workplace... same exact jobs same exact positions and they were getting paid way less than the men”

Key MomentAndrew Wilson counters: Blizzard settled without admission of wrongdoing; filing a complaint doesn't prove guilt.

“you can't just put forward a complaint and say that because a complaint was made that that means that therefore complaint was true... they admitted no wrongdoing according to this settlement”

ControversyBrian reveals Google internal pay audit found they were overpaying women vs male counterparts, countering JoJo's pay gap argument.

“Google did a review an internal review and found that they were actually overpaying women uh compared to their male counterparts”

Key MomentJoJo cannot name a right that men have today that women do not. Brian presses this question.

“what right does a man have in this country that a woman does not today”

Key MomentAndrew Wilson argues selective service / male draft is the clearest example of male-specific oppression that feminists never advocate against.

“men can be pressed into selective service because nobody gives a about them... women can't... and yet they gripe on the opposite side about things that they consider to be oppressive to them when they will never have to make that ultimate sacrifice”

QuoteEsme leaves the show early before body count round concludes, thanks everyone.

“thank you for having me it was really nice to meet you guys... you weren't as scary as I thought you were going to be”

Key MomentAndrew Wilson uses gamble analogy to get Esme to concede that body count correlates with loyalty: 1 woman with 1 partner for 19 years vs 1 woman with 19 partners over 19 years — which would you gamble on for loyalty?

“if you had to gamble if you had to roll all of your dice on one which one would you say would be more likely to be more promiscuous... you're going to roll it on the person with the least body count which tells me that it matters”

QuoteEpisode wrap-up; Brian thanks Andrew Wilson and the panel.

“okay we're going to wrap up there guys long show long show... go subscribe to Andrew Wilson's The Crucible channel”

Topics Discussed

Show intro and Elon Musk tweet reaction

Brian introduces the show from Santa Barbara. Notes Elon Musk replied to a Whatever clip tweet (got 8M views). Also mentions Trace Cyrus (Metro Station) shared the channel. Andrew Wilson joins remotely.

Guest introductions and relationship status

All guests introduce themselves (name, age, location, occupation). Go around table on relationship status and longest relationships. JoJo: single 2yr, 1 relationship 4yr. Esme: divorced. Malia: single 2.5yr, celibate 1.5yr. Malik: single 2.5yr. Michaela: in relationship 2.5yr. Bella: in relationship since Oct. Celeste: in relationship since Oct, longest was on/off 4yr. Madison: in relationship 1.5yr. Andrew Wilson: married 10+ years.

Dating apps and Malia's dating experience

Discussion of dating app experiences. Malia: gets 20-30 Hinge likes/day but only matches ~1; was banned from apps for not responding; had 1 date in 4 months; prefers nerdy/gamer types. JoJo: only relationship was long-distance. Brian probes Malia on why she doesn't pursue dates.

Hypergamy and women dating up

Andrew Wilson and Brian argue that women hypergamously seek men with more resources. JoJo and others debate whether this is a generational trend. Discussion on whether women's financial independence is changing the dynamic. Andrew cites that hypergamy seems to be increasing not decreasing.

Should women date up: Andrew Wilson scenario

Andrew Wilson presents scenario: 25-year-old man choosing between hot 21-year-old and established 27-year-old. Discussion on what men vs women prioritize in partner selection. Brian cites statistics on men preferring beauty and motherly qualities; women preferring security and resources.

Dating patterns and relationship timelines

JoJo discusses her long-distance relationship. Esme discusses her marriage at 18, divorce at 28, and post-separation hookup culture experience. Discussion of modern dating apps and communication.

Partner preferences: looks, dating apps, nerdy guys

Brian asks each guest what they're looking for. Malia: nerdy/gamer guys, engineers, anime nerds. Brian notes Malia gets many matches but rarely accepts. Discussion of dating app rejection asymmetry between men and women (Hinge: 20-30 likes/day vs 1 match accepted).

Ratings round: self-rate looks 1-10

Brian asks guests to rate their looks. Malia: 6. Malik: 7. Andrew Wilson: sarcastically 10. JoJo: implied ~7 range. Celeste: ~7. Bella: 6.

Celeste: dating a heroin addict for 4 years

Brian addresses notes on Celeste's on/off 4-year relationship with a heroin addict. He relapsed 5-6 times; each relapse ended the 'on' phase. She never ended it — always his ghosting. Met when she was 21, he was 24 and claimed 2 years clean. She stayed because she saw more than the addiction. Hid relationship from family to protect his image. Others discuss rescuer/fixer mentality.

Feminism definition debate

Brian and Andrew argue feminism is female supremacy, not equality. Malik argues feminism is about equality; Brian says that's egalitarianism. Andrew distinguishes classic liberalism from feminism. Quick round: JoJo identifies as feminist (equity-based); others mostly do not. Malik says he is egalitarian.

Are women oppressed in the US: JoJo vs Andrew Wilson

JoJo argues women are oppressed, cites Blizzard California lawsuit (equal pay). Andrew and Brian challenge this: complaint not proof of guilt; settlement without admission of wrongdoing. Brian cites Google internal review found they were overpaying women. Debate on whether inequity = oppression. JoJo cannot name a right men have that women don't (in contemporary US).

Traditional vs feminist panel self-identification

Quick round: do you identify as feminist? JoJo: yes (equity definition). Others: no. Malik: egalitarian. Andrew declares if guests don't identify as feminist, they can be assessed by whether they're traditional.

Women in corporate settings and workplace oppression

JoJo brings Blizzard case again. Brian introduces Google's internal audit finding women were overpaid. Andrew and Brian challenge whether corporate incidents prove systemic oppression. 1970s sex work policing example from JoJo about prostitutes vs pimps.

WWII civilian death casualty statistics video

Brian or Andrew plays WWII casualty documentary video. Andrew argues men were primary victims even counting civilians, due to massacres targeting men. JoJo pushes back. Debate on whether military casualties vs civilian casualties shift the picture.

Selective Service and men's draft: is it oppression

Extended debate: Brian and Andrew argue men being subject to selective service while women are exempt is a form of male oppression. JoJo disputes this framing. Andrew: men can be pressed into service because society does not value them. Malik raises conscription as a counterpoint.

Esme departure and final discussion

Esme thanks the panel and leaves early (~6:10) before body count discussion concludes (3-hour drive home). Andrew compliments her articulation. Remaining panel continues discussion on body count, promiscuity, and relationship fitness.

Promiscuity, body count, and pair bonding

Going around the table on whether body count matters. Results: Celeste/Madison: 8 and 7. Bella/others: 5-6 range. JoJo: declined specific number, range above 30. Esme: doesn't care personally about body count. Andrew uses gamble analogy to get Esme to concede body count correlates with loyalty. Esme concedes gamble point but maintains she would not choose partner by body count alone.

Wrap-up and outro

Brian closes the show. Thanks Andrew Wilson and the panel. Plugs The Crucible channel. Madison reads TTS. Brian raids a WoW streamer on Twitch.

Transcript

Page 7 of 8

Brian Atlasthan women Checkmate no Pond you like a chessboard yeah no uh it's just like but you failed to State a grievance that a

Brian Atlasgrievance that is worse than forc military conscription but like percentage wise how many or

JoJostatistically how many times have men been drafted to go to war forever you realiz every war that's happen have been

Malikdropped woman in the case of the US in the history of ever it is literally a war crime to attack women while men get shot I've never gotten a

JoJoletter to be drafted yeah well no I meant actual the only thing women get forced to do is jury beuty every single War almost and men

JoJohave been forced to go to war so yeah my point is TimeWise right this it doesn't

Esmehappen go ahead go on a daily basis this this it doesn't matter it doesn't it doesn't matter it happens when it's really really really bad yeah yeah and

JoJothen women are not forced to get sent off to war for various reason reasons well my point is with this is there's daily things that happen right M

Brian Atlasto women okay not let me ask let me ask you okay hold on let me engage with you on this okay so cat calling is bad and that almost exclusively is targeted towards women correct that's like War

Brian Atlasthough that's like War though Bri yeah let say that's like cat calling let's say cat calling let's say cat calling

Brian Atlashappens to thousands of women a day every single day but men only get drafted sometime which is worse the cat calling or drafting yeah you no I'm

JoJoasking you a question no a serious question no which one's worse I'm going to have to say definitely the cat calling it's a joke yes I know obviously I can make jokes not good ones drafting yes all

Brian Atlasright yeah not good ones yeah not good ones all right it's tough all right let's read a couple chats let's read some chats did we read did we read read this one no M Maddie F yeah when a

Celeste/MadisonMexican General is invited to invade a country and his only answer is C holy F I feel like a naked man at the wall of the Alamo please invade this country I

Celeste/Madisondon't know what that means I don't know well thank you the official Prince to the five- foot guy forget these delusional westernized female standards you build and protect the world they

Celeste/Madisonlive in and that makes you better than them none of these girls deserve what they ask for leave America so your height and money won't matter period thank you Jazz money will still probably

Celeste/Madisonmatter not going to lie she's wrong she's unbelievably wrong entire provinces and cities in Iran in sorry I like fumbled that have zero law

Celeste/Madisonagainst women she's talking about essentially the DC Washington areas most of Iran has lots of respect for female autonomy Iran is deeply misrepresented I was saying the Middle East in general I

Malikjust use your Iran as an example because you do see this happening a lot in Iran but it's the Middle East in general what do you see happening a lot in Iran women being

Andrew Wilsonoppressed how how by not having nearly as many rights as men um in a lot of the countries PR yeah but you don't believe in you don't believe in egalitarianism

Malikwhat do you care I was using this that is an example that um JoJo said she felt oppressed that women are oppressed said I felt wom

Malikyou felt that women are oppressed in the US and I said actual women being oppressed you would see in the Middle East especially like more uh Arabic countries Oh you mean by her standard

Maliknot by your standard no by by the standard like by oppression in general like in the Middle East women are oppressed yeah but is that good or bad now that's

Malikbad oppression is bad like what you want you want you want so you do want egalitarianism no I don't think men and women should be equal but they should have equal rights

Andrew Wilsonokay so how's that not egalitarianism honestly I don't know the exact definition of egalitarian really strange because earlier you said that feminism from your purview was egalitarianism and here you are saying

Andrew Wilsonthat you're not a feminist but want egalitarianism so now I'm confused M you're putting words in my mouth no first of all I not I'm specifically not

Malikdid you not Define feminism as being egalitarianism I was asking if Brian would consider it egalitarianism I didn't see what do you consider it to be if it's not egalitarianism then I think

Malikfeminism is the idea that men and women should be equal I do not believe in that's how's that not egalitarianism being equal and having equal rights are not the same thing what

Andrew Wilsonwhat does egalitarianism mean here let's pull up a definition now of egalitarianism what what if you had to get yes what would you say that it meant equality equality would that include

Andrew Wilsonequal rights yes that would include equal rights though the doctrine that all people deserve are equal and deserve equal rights that is the definition of

Andrew Wilsonegalitarianism that you believe in and you said that egalitarianism was feminism yes yes and you believe in egalitarianism yes therefore you would

Malikbe what I do not have feminist views I think that men and women should have equal rights by your definition earlier no no no no you can throw in other words I can

Andrew Wilsonto Andrew shut up so okay well okay well then Define what egalitarianism means how it's not it doesn't mean feminism so you just read the definition that egalitarianism means equality so I guess

MalikI'll read it again it's the doctrine that all people are equal and deserve equal rights okay I and I agree with half of that I think all all people should have equal rights but I do not think men and women are equal for

Malikinstance with the war example that we've been arguing with about for the past hour or so men getting drafted into war should never be something women have to women do not belong on The Warfield I

Andrew Wilsondon't think they should be completely equal in every right well that doesn't sound like all that that sounds like is a push back against equal rights what is the point you're trying

Andrew Wilsonto make Andrew my point is is that if you define egalitarianism as feminism and you believe in egalitarianism which is broadly defined not as Equity but is defined specifically feminis it sounds

Andrew Wilsonlike Mal you're a feminist by your logic that's all I'm just pointing this no you're twisting no it's not again it's not a

MalikCheckmate feminism my understanding of it which you said I'm incorrect on by the way but feminism to mind saying I was right about that

Malikbut you have educated me that feminism means a Female Supremacy so equality is not Female Supremacy Andrew check me that's right so then so then if that's

Andrew Wilsontrue then your earlier definition of egalitarianism being feminism was incorrect told you it was incorrect and you were arguing with him about it being correct right Malik you can watch the

Malikvideo back I asked ran if he would consider that the same I did I never to my memory St feminism is a oh no the reason you were in the argument is because you stated emphatically that

Andrew Wilsonthat's what if I Brian said push back and said no no no that's not feminism doesn't just mean egalitarianism and you were like now it does I have to argue with you now right I take notes through

Andrew Wilsonthis whole thing so that I have good timestamps for my show that's how I know what you said when you lawy like I just stated like I just stated take my my

Malikunderstanding of feminism was extreme equality both rights take the L on both rights and gender roles more specifically the gender roles take the L

Andrew WilsonI'm not taking the El I'm not wrong Brian she she's not taking the L I'm not taking the L about this for hours I'll just let it go so we ju just for the sake of time I do have to move on here

Celeste/MadisonMaddie can you read this chat to change the subject let's talk about how men's mental health isn't talked about nor it is an nor is it an issue I how a man can

Brian Atlasbe falsely accused of essay and the only thing that happens is a man's life ruined a lot of false accusations a lot of uh men having their

Brian Atlaslives ruined over a lie what's that lyric from a Tupac song uh lot of Real G's doing time cuz a groupy bit the

Brian Atlastruth and told a lie bent the truth excuse me bent the truth and told a lie my dear rip Tupac

Brian Atlasum okay yeah it's no but false accusations absolutely terrible ruin men's lives um and certain types of accusations seem to be just by mere

Brian Atlasvirtue of the accusations being made are uh even without any proof you know just ruin man's life okay uh how many great yeah how many great men have had okay

Celeste/Madisonanyways um can you read this one shout out from tuscala Alabama the primary victims of war are men but girl in red hair is an ideologue is that a word who is more emotional than rational you

Celeste/Madisonwould pass any communications class in American college with A+ retired # usn # roll TI # enant Hash Hash you want to respond to this they're

Brian Atlascalling you an ideologue perhaps you're even a zealot are you a zealot confirm or deny Zealot not Zealot one in the chat for Zealot two in the chat for not zealot

Brian Atlasdon't even know what that is should we Google what Zealot is you can give me a definition based off your brain let's do a little Google of the Zealot definition

Brian Atlasyou you have a zealot is someone who has special Zeal without without there being any actual now I'm just bullshitting at

Brian Atlasthis a zealot what okay how how would I Define a zalet somebody who is zealous strong who strongly believes something

Brian Atlaswhether it's true or not oh God I using a word I can't precisely Define but why don't we have Nick that's Google it that's kind of crazy huh wait hold on

Brian AtlasZealot you got it a person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious political or other ideals I'm going to be generous here I'm

JoJogoing to be generous here and say that I actually was not too far off the mark oh saying I think it was someone who has a

JoJolittle bit of Zess zel whatever Zeal they've got Zeal I don't know what is a woman God starting with you go ahead

JoJowe'll actually do this around the table um anyone who wants to identify thems as a woman huh okay we'll come back to that with but someone who is born

Maliabiologically a woman uh oh man anyone who wants to identify a woman is a woman sure so what is a

Brian Atlaswoman so a woman is somebody who identifies as a woman so yeah that's circular logic yeah no and I guess I'd bring it back to you on that too man you you're honed in on her I think that's a good one no well you gave this pretty

Brian Atlasmuch the same answer so yeah generally agree so you're so speak so what speak your your answer was a woman is anybody who identifies as a woman yeah

JoJoI just don't think like I'm in a position uh I'm in a position to dictate what how others feel so that that's my kind of mental okay Malik a woman is an

Bellaadult human female a woman is a biological female a woman is a biological female or someone who

Bellacompletely transitions into a woman not through just um identification wait like they don't just they don't

Bellajust go to the so they could be male but if so long as they fully transition yes they can be a woman okay I guess um like surgery hormones I wouldn't necessarily say like

Bellabottom surgery for sure but like so they can still have a penis yeah I mean I'll say that but like you know at least 2024 getting into passibility

Celesteokay uh what about you um a biological female but I also agree because uh there's women but there's also trans women which you're asking

Celestewhat is a woman So my answer be a biological female but there is the other side of it a woman is an adult human biological

Brian Atlasfemale okay so let me relate this a little bit to dating so um I didn't get a definition

Andrew Wilsonoh what's a woman go ahead a woman a woman is an individual who whose sex corresponds with that of the only sex

Andrew Wilsonwhich can produce Offspring so female wait what biological female biolog so if you can't produce Offspring You're not female there's some females there's some females who can't produce Offspring right are they not

Andrew Wilsonconsidered women so you have to be cautious so the definition is this sex which is associated oh with the sex which can reproduce and have offspring

Malikthat is a woman but men can have Offspring huh what no they can't carry off oh oh I I missed the carry part I'm

Andrew Wilsonsorry Malik Malik they can conceive young just do it we'll do it that way if you want to pantic about it the sex that which can conceive young and is

Andrew Wilsonassociated with that which can conceive young let's relate this to dating so

Maliaare trans women women no so they're feminine but not women trans women are trans

Brian Atlaswomen but you two were kind of saying well if they've gone through the transition uh then they can cuz I feel like there's especially nowadays there's

Bellaa lot of people who will con like they will claim trans but not transition and

Bellathere's did though like full transition sure I would not like I wouldn't sit there and be like you're a real woman

Bellabut I wouldn't sit there and call you a man so related to dating so a

Brian Atlasman let's how do I want to frame this is it straight as a heterosexual man to

Brian Atlasdate a trans woman no well hold on start starting with you yeah yes it's you're straight and to date a trans man I think

Brian Atlasso so me heter if I'm a het as a heterosexual man if I were to date a transom is that straight yeah I think so okay I'll come back to that we'll go

Esmearound the table go ahead I wouldn't I mean if you consider yourself straight and you're dating a biological man then then no um they're fully female present presting you're attracted to the female

Maliapresence so I think so what if they have a penis I might um I might say that that's not totally straight

Malikokay there's different different there's different definitions okay so it's obviously not straight if you're having sex with anything if you're having sex in any other circumstance than

Malikheterosexual sex with two opposite genders I using logic of certain people

Malikum could present myself as a feminine presenting gay trans man what is stopping me from presenting myself and identifying as a feminine

Malikpresenting gay trans man because if I'm a gay trans man means I'm still attracted to men but I'm feminine presenting do it do no one stopping your girl go do it and then if I have sex

Andrew Wilsonwith a man as a feminine presenting gay trans man that is not gay sex that's straight sex why why even waste your time this is super simple you just go around the table and ask a single question just a single question let's

Celeste/Madisonjust continue going around the table so wait I don't I'm confused by man would be a biological woman exactly so female who wants to have sex with men men but

Malikwants to be a man yes what's your point what's your point the only straight sex is man woman having sex uh trans woman is a trans woman male female everyone can have their own opinion on it to me

Michaelapersonally I don't consider that straight sex okay uh I think anything outside of heterosexual sex is I would consider pansexual so um where you

Brian Atlasaccept everything or anything as it is well okay so perhaps the better question is a man a man a male who is having sex with

Brian Atlasa transwoman is there any scenario where that man can claim to be straight no socially I think

Michaelaso I think the disconnect a lot of times is that if you ask a transom or a trans man are you a woman or are you a man socially I think they can be if you're

Michaelapresenting fully and doesn't matter what's down there that's I guess you and your partner's business but if you're presenting fully then uh loveing uh if you're presenting

Andrew Wilsonwell let me ask you let me just ask you a simple question can you be a black man can I yeah no can you Center up a little why

Michaelanot uh cuz I'm not what if you present yourself as being one uh I mean if I fully

Michaelacommitted face yeah like if I literally could become one short like all I'm saying is that what do you mean become one okay

Michaelawait uh what I'm saying is that if there is a person or a a trans woman just going about their day whatever and you didn't know that they were a trans woman

Andrew WilsonI would say socially that they could be considered a woman just for the sake of just being just having it easy I'm not going to so if I showed up at um a party and I pulled a rabbit out of a hat does

Andrew Wilsonthat mean that socially I could do magic or would I just be presenting an illusion I think a little bit of both if you could trick people I'm not saying that it's not oh if you can trick people

Andrew Wilsonright if you can trick them so it wouldn't change the fact of the matter it would be a trick no correct so if you presented yourself as a black man would that be the fact of the matter or would it be a trick it would I guess be a

Michaelatrick so I guess maybe I miscommunicated of like you cannot physically become I can't physically become a black man a well then how come a man can physically become a woman ever or a woman

Andrew Wilsonphysically become a man I think surface level they can like they can't well what does that mean though that just means that they're tricking you right yes definitely just tricking you what you're so what you're saying is that there are

Andrew Wilsonsome people out there who can trick you into believing a thing which is not true yes okay well then if that's the case then I

Celesteagree okay what do you think uh no I don't think that it would be considered heterosexual okay what about you it's a hard question I mean if they were fully

Celestetransitioned that's would if they were fully transitioned that would be a hard fully fully transitioned fully transitioned bottom surgery

Celesteeven I'm not sure how to answer that I see uh I mean I guess no they can't no they wouldn't be if they knew the fact that they were like like fully transitioned and they knew that they

Brian Atlaswere trans then no okay wait so you said it would how does one not know that like I'm actually confused now what was that how would

Celestethey they didn't communicate that I don't know if you're fully transitioned organs and everything and you didn't communic I mean well I mean there is an example of that though there's a there's a clip of a um I wouldn't say well-known

Bellatrans woman but I'm not too big in the community so I'm not too sure but she actually said she you know didn't tell a man for about 2 months and he had no idea is that makeup chick is it the makeup chick no it's somebody completely

Belladifferent but she had bottom surgery and they were sexual with each other and she didn't tell him for about 2 months so that's AA bro yeah that was that was that was essentially the debate on that

Bellatoo but yeah he he had no idea for about two months she should they whatever should have said something wait so okay you said going back to you you said that

Brian Atlasit would be straight yeah I think so for a man a male to date have sex with

Brian Atlasa trans a transom is that correct did you agree on that or no um I forgot I think it depends on the surgery posttop

Maliaafter op okay well let me start here so let's say they still have a pen that is slightly less straight to me yeah it's slightly straight

Brian Atlasnot super straight to me what about you age oh well cuz you said it was just if they're you're a male dating a trans

JoJowoman it's that's straight yeah I think so but I mean a trans woman could still have a pen yeah so still straight I still think it could be straight yeah

JoJocould be straight yeah why is then then what a stra what so in this concept when we say homosexual we mean same sex relationship yep you

Andrew Wilsonwould agree that these people have not changed their sex correct

Andrew Wilsonum the wait sorry re reiterate your point homosexual means same sex same sex relationship you would agree that these people have not changed their sex correct yeah you can argue they've

Andrew Wilsonchanged their gender but you would never argue they changed their sex would you yeah yeah so if that's the case then they would be in a homosexual relationship straight is a short form

JoJoslang for heterosexual so how could this ever be a heterosexual relationship if they're the same

JoJosex I I just want to respect people and if a man is dating uh someone who is a transom I think if they identify straight why why would I dictate it

Andrew Wilsonotherwise like why does it matter to me well because you can have you can have words which operate only under two modes really you can have an empty label for

Andrew Wilsoninstance Bri that would be Brian's name his name is Brian but there's many many many Brian right it's an empty label it's not particularly the name itself is

Andrew Wilsonnot pointing at anything now him himself as an identifier can point to him specifically if you say homosexual that is a label which has meaning it's

Andrew Wilsonpointing to something same sex heterosexuals pointing to something else right which is opposite sex so the question then becomes if you conflate

Andrew Wilsonand make a category error out of this and say people who are the same sex are actually people who are opposite sex now we have a word concept fallacy so I need

Andrew Wilsonto understand why it is that out of respect you're going to yield to them that this thing is true which is categorically false

Andrew Wilsonwell the reason I do that is because I think it's easier for me to just change my language or change change how you don't think so

JoJoit's easier for you to lie no just to respect what they want to be called if you Brian wanted to go by the name Paul I would call him Paul yes but I already explained to you the distinction in

Andrew Wilsonnames names are empty labels words have specific labels and it's because words are designed to convey information here's an example when I say the word cat to you does the

TTS/Donationsword cat point to something can you tell me what it's pointing at words also transform over time can you tell me what s energy donated

TTS/Donations$100 no amount of data reasoning or logic will change leftist women's mind they appeal to emotion and feelings only they are truly the scourge of the earth

Andrew Wilsonthey are being rejected on mass thank God yeah well I couldn't agree with the super chat or more that leftist women are the scourge of the Earth but back to this when I say the word cat what am I

JoJopointing at the animal you want me to say the animal yeah describe it for me I don't know how to describe a c fine with a little pointy ears most of the

Andrew Wilsontime got F got four legs usually right it's got a tail it's got all that so I've conveyed all of that information to you with a single word haven't I yeah okay so how come when I say the word

Andrew Wilsonhomosexual there's suddenly confusion there's no confusion okay if there's no confusion then why is it other if you know what the word means and you know what it's pointing to and somebody says

JoJoI'm not that thing how are they not lying but that's it's funny that you think they're lying what if they like how do you don't know what's goes on in

JoJolike their bedroom life what if they don't don't even why aren't you a black woman what why aren't you a black woman are you going to do the Born This Way no

Andrew WilsonI'm asking you a specific question are you a black woman no if you claimed that you were a black woman would you be telling the truth or would you be lying I would be lying okay well then why

Andrew Wilsonwouldn't the same exact thing be true in the case of homo versus heterosexual knowing that these categories are also indicating the same thing which is a biological reality which is associated

JoJowith those words I don't know why would care about this like I rather just you know why you care about lying that's weird truth I don't care about if someone tells me a

Andrew Wilsonlie no you don't care about truth you don't care if people lie to you aren't you getting a masters yeah hang on I just want to make sure I'm clear on this I just want to make sure I'm clear you

JoJodon't care if people lie to you I don't care if like someone wants to identify as trans again what if you deem it as a lie so you're you're you're you just

Andrew WilsonTred to duck the the question it was cleverly done but I caught on to it quickly you don't care if people lie to you is that yes or no I the general public if a random person says lies to

Andrew Wilsonme no I don't care why why would you don't care so if you have a friend who who is a friend of yours do you care if they lie to you I would care more it depends what is about family member I

Andrew Wilsonwould care more but it depends what it is so if your family member came to you and lied about being black would you care it would be a little concerning of why they randomly started saying that why would that be concerning would it be

Andrew Wilsonconcerning because they're suffering clearly from something which is a delusion um I mean I'm not going to a that I think there's a difference between you mean you're not going to answer that why

Andrew Wilsonwould it be concerning if one of your family members came to you and and said that they were a black man if they were a white woman why would that be concerning to you I again I don't know

Andrew Wilsonwhy this is such a h in conversation I really just to be nice I don't like saying a crazy opinion on this because I think know what your feelings are in the matter I asked you question why would it

Andrew Wilsonbe concerning to you if a family member came to you and misidentified their race why would that be of concern I think race and gender are different yeah I I agree that they're

Andrew Wilsondifferent but I'm going to ask you one more time why would it be of concern to you because they are not that race right they are not that thing so

Andrew Wilsonyou would think what why would them not being that thing be of concern to you why would it be a concern to me it's not because why would it yeah why would it be of concern to you that somebody came to you and said this thing to you why

JoJowould that be concerning that's a good question I don't know why it would be concerning but then why did you just say you would be concerned by it I would be concerned be because they are identifying as a race that they're not right so they're

Andrew Wilsonlying to you that that's what the concern is you know that they're lying to you so that would spring delusion inside of your brain you would say they were delusional there's no other reason you could possibly give for why that would be concerning and if you can I'd

JoJolove to hear it but delusion and a lie is a little bit different don't you think a liar a good liar is whatever but someone who's actually delusional and is having mental a mental crisis is very different what do you consider it to be delusional if one of your family members

Andrew Wilsonwho was a white woman came over to you and said that they were a black man yeah I think it's delusional that point yes exactly it's delusional because lying to you and telling you that there's something that they are not why would

Malikthe same thing not apply to sex I'm it's there it's still delusional delusion is believing your own lie yes so it's still a lie here let me ask you a question let me ask you a question is

Brian Atlasit okay let's say me I would not want to date a transom is that transphobic I think that's your

Michaelapreference okay so I have no I have no quarrels with that that's fine okay where is your where is your line though cuz you're like um hey you just want to respect them I personally

Michaelabelieve you can respect and not accept delusion so would you do or would you accept any person who identifies as no matter what severity of their transition

Michaelathey are yeah again if a guy has a beer if Brian threw out a wig you would accept him if you wanted to be identified as a woman why not I don't see a problem with

Celeste/Madisonit what makes it more acceptable for someone to change their gender I'm not going to say sex rather than their

JoJorace if we want to do the gender argument there people argue gender is like a construct right of yeah but race is a construct from your world

Andrew Wilsonview2 race is a construct yeah got a how what do you mean how you don't believe that race is a construct you think that it's a biological truth

Andrew Wilsonwell like the ACT your skin tone is a construct no I didn't say skin tone I said race is a construct race is not color I'm just asking what makes it more acceptable from your from your worldview

JoJoand there's nothing here that's to Brian problems from your worldview race is a construct not yes not necessarily no cuz

Andrew Wilsonit's dependent on locationally a lot there's a lot of background well those are called client from your worldview that's called a clein so that would be a clle cluster has nothing to do with race

Andrew Wilsonyou're just talking about demographic areas so yes I'll concede to the cin clusters but race from the worldview of

Andrew Wilsonyou the leftist does not exist it is not a biological reality so if that is true and it's not a biological reality is just a social

Andrew Wilsonconstruction just like gender is you would have to explain why in the world it is that you would be willing to concede to one of these delusions but

JoJonot the other I think it's because with the race there's a lot more behind it than just wanting to identify as a different J why

JoJoit's just a social construct right no because there's things that go along

Andrew Wilsonwith race in general like there is like racism the idea of racism you aren't going to yeah well like the idea of transphobia would be the same exact thing right you can have a social construction and then you can have a

Brian Atlasbias against social construction doesn't make it any less of a social construction would I have a question wait wait no no no hold on hold on I just for the sake of time here just I

TTS/Donationsagain I I'm trying to get a oh okay big SAS energy donated $100 at what point is respecting the person actually calling out their delusion or lie is it really respect to

TTS/Donationsto play along with their mental illness is that really Compassion or is it just lazy apathy okay uh thank you big sass energy

Brian Atlasokay just really quick so a male sing the D of a transwoman is that heterosexual

Andrew Wilsonno that's not it's not if you suck lady dick are you gay it's simple if you suck lady dick are

Brian Atlasyou gay I want thats like easy question I said no it's not heterosexual gay no because earlier I asked if it's straight as a heterosexual man to dat a trans

JoJowoman and you said yes it is straight so dating is straight but well some people don't even have sex before marriage right that's a big one but let's talk just sex let's talk just

Brian Atlassex okay okay wait is there any scenar huh it's a little late I got to get going before you leave let me see if I can actually very quickly I know you we had some pre-show notes that uh wait uh

Brian Atlashold on draxx right yeah oh we hit it I think we hit all your notes so I I know it's late if you do got to excuse yourself I do totally fine well thank you so much for coming thank you for thanks for

Esmehaving me it was really nice to meet you guys I'm going to have you take meet you have a great night bye it was nice to meet you we are going to try to W you weren't as scary as I thought you were going to be teddy bear I said he weren't

Andrew Wilsonas scary as I thought you were going to be oh wait before you leave where the hell where the hell ises this idea come from you use a lot of big words as as a plug whatever that's where it comes

Esmefrom you just use a lot of big words you're very well articulated with your words and I'm not you're kind of intimidating before before you leave uh last last little

Andrew Wilsonthing does body cam matter uh I don't care personally no um I don't really care my wait wait hang on you're GNA

Andrew Wilsonleave can you come back really like you're just going to drop that and then you're going to leave no way you got to stay at least for another 15 minutes about bro I have like three hour drive wait what going around

Brian Atlasthe table yes body count matters to a certain extent yeah yes absolutely no doesn't matter no yes okay so going around the table what's your body count

Celeste/Madisonstarting with me guys eight going over here oh seven

Celestefive seven stop the cap okay I was on all of you one 10 I'd prefer not to answer yeah I'm not wait I thought you

Celestesaid it doesn't matter I know range range range um uh above

Celeste30

Brian Atlasrange less than that that's all is it above 40 that's all I'm giving you cuz above 30

TTS/Donationscould mean a million no no it's not that much okay about 30 okay all right um all right that was it race Don

TTS/Donations$100 race is a construct in reality reality there was no concept of race prior to the event of the American racial construct people were separated

Andrew Wilsonby cultural tribal and linguistic boundaries thank you this was this was an example which was used to point out

Esmeabsurdity not an example which was used to make a claim either way got it all right well thank you for coming uh yeah here Spencer can you take to answer this guy's question first body count does not

Esmematter two reasons maybe for women it does because you get emotionally attached to somebody right but in general I don't think it matters because that doesn't um play A Part as to like

Brian Atlaswho that person is or how they are in a relationship but wait hold on now we got to tackle that yeah I told you I told you you can't drop that and just walk it's just it's no good I'm out wait wait

Brian Atlaswait so okay you're saying that has no bearing on how they're going to behave in a relationship

Esmeor I don't I what do you mean behave in a relationship well your point was that I meant that if somebody has a high body count that doesn't mean that

Esmethey're like it's going to make them be a certain type of person in a relationship not sure about that one yeah that's okay so let me ask you a

Brian Atlasquestion if you were you're currently uh wait divor you any dating like boyfriends okay let me you me meet a guy

Brian Atlasand you find out that he cheated on his past three girlfriends mhm it's in his past right uh does his past Behavior make

Esmeyou take pause on potentially partnering with him it would make me question it yeah but wouldn't that be the cheating not the amount of Body Count correct that would be like the action of cheating not and there's also the action

Esmeof being promiscuous I think that somebody that's genuinely promiscuous might be more prone two set actions but again it just really depends I don't think that that

Esmehas anything to do with the amount of people that you sleep with because there's also a notion that like okay what if I have 20 boyfriends and I sleep with those 20 boyfriends and my body

Andrew Wilsoncount is 20 they were still my part disgusting yeah I I get it I understand but let's let's ask this a slightly different way let me just ask you if there was a woman two there's two

Andrew Wilsonwomen that you know one has been with the same man for 19 years and one has been with 19 men every year which one would you think would be

Esmemore likely if they you know got together with a new partner to be loyal to them um to be loyal wait what do you

Esmemean if somebody were to sleep with 19 men and then one woman sleeping no let me let me rephr let me rephrase it again thank you a woman has been with the same

Andrew Wilsonpartner for 19 years and now she's no longer with that partner another woman that you know has been with 19 Partners every year okay M same amount of time

Andrew Wilsonover 19 years they both end up with new partners which one would you if you had to gamble if you had to roll all of your dice on one which one would you say would be more likely to be more

Esmepromiscuous and step out of the relationship um well I know the answer that you want me to give but if somebody who is sleeping with multiple people and

Esmethey have not been in a relationship and then they finally decide to meet in a relationship I would say that that's for reason now if you have one person that

Esmehas slept with one man several times and they get into another relationship they might be equally uh loyal to that person or they might also want you roll the which one would you roll the dice on is

Esmethe question uh well I mean I would roll the dice with the person that was in the longest relationship because they become accustomed to being in a long

Andrew Wilsonrelationship right so then this would this would conclude for This Then That Body Count must at least matter to some

Esmedegree to you it because yeah and the alternative if well but you just said it didn't it I I don't think it it matters yes but it doesn't matter in choosing a

Andrew Wilsonpartner like if well if I sleep with choing a partner if you're saying that the traits of the body count itself if you had to gamble would indicate more loyalty that seems like that would be

Esmesomething that would be very keyed in if you were choosing a partner if I were to look at a man and know that that man has slept with several women I wouldn't solely base it off of the body count yeah but how come when the gamble was on

Andrew Wilsonwomen that you indicated that you thought that the Loyalty would be higher for the woman with a lesser body count that's the question my answer would be the same if you put that scenario as a

Andrew Wilsonman sure but even then the question still still stands which is why is it if this thing doesn't matter do you indicate loyalty with the

Esmething well it's like the comment that I said people are usually looking for something Greener like the greener grass on the other side of the fence or whatever once you once you've been with

Esmemore people you tend to have more um like people that you compare your partners with right but as an individual that can always vary I wouldn't I'm not saying individually it can't vary I'm

Andrew Wilsonnot saying you're an evil person because you had a high body count not saying anything of the sort I'm definitely saying that it's not a monolith I'm just saying that you yourself associate loyalty correct with a low body count

Andrew Wilsonokay I still wouldn't use that's true I still wouldn't use body count and base it to partner but if that's true that you associate loyalty with a lower body count then don't you think pertinent for

Esmepartner choosing if they're looking for the quality of loyalty I mean it's possible or I can also associate it to somebody wanting to possibly be more um prone to wanting to get other partners

Esmeif they've only been with one person you could but if you had to gamble you wouldn't but you know in life it's sometimes a bad idea to gamble and

Andrew Wilsonyou want to like take all every relation a gamble isn't it it could be as long as both parties are actively choosing to be together regardless if you have to roll the hard

Andrew Wilsonsix you're going to roll it on the person with the least body count which tells me that it matters and every relationship is a gamble you conceded that that's also true so it sounds like

Andrew Wilsonif loyalty is the issue here and it is a big issue in relationships that you yourself would associate body count with loyalty but I wouldn't be so I wouldn't

Esmesolely base my choosing of that person based off a body count saying it matters to some degree yeah my advice to men is don't date women with high body

Celeste/Madisoncounts true that's okay true I don't really think body count has to do with loyalty though you can have been promiscuous in the past and still know how to be loyal but you could also have

Esmelike a really low body count and have not been loyal and able to commit in any of those yeah but I mean the more that you have the more partners that you have the more you have to like compare other people with and I think that's one of

Esmethe really like one of the biggest problems that there is now is that you can pick up your phone and swipe right or swipe left and have all of these different options and so you've been with 20 30 people but you're with your

Esmepartner and you're constantly nitpicking as to oh well he doesn't do what um I don't know this other guy that I dated with or and he doesn't look like this or the guy that I dated looks like so there's always going to be like comp

Esmeyeah there's always going to be some type of comparison so can with this I'm just curious um this was a good exchange I enjoyed it would you say that promiscuity itself is a

Esmecharacter flaw um I I wouldn't say that well it's it's weird I would say for me for women

Esmeyes one I I'm just taking myself into consideration here um if I were to sleep with multiple people I would I would be attached to those

Esmepeople I would like emotionally be I'm a very emotional person so um I feel like I would be emotionally attached to those people sex means different uh to me than

Andrew Wilsonwhat I believe sex means to a man no okay so I understand that you would drive the distinction between the Sexes so then would you consider it a character flaw on women uh a character

Andrew Wilsonflaw and what I'm sorry can you elaborate promiscuity would you consider promiscuity to be character flaw one in a character flaw in what way that it would in some way enro upon

Andrew Wilsonthe character of the woman that they were engaging in promiscuity do you think do you consider that to be a flaw of character or do you consider it to not be a flaw of

Esmecharacter um I think it speaks on their character that's one of the reasons why I'm not really do you think it speaks poorly on

Esmetheir character no no so then promiscuity to you would not be a character flaw so I think it so

Esmeagain for me I don't engage in the hookup culture but I'm also not going to sit here and tell the woman in front of me that does engage in hookup culture

Esmethat she's flawed or or like shame her for it I think all of that is personal choice um a lot of it has to do with like religious standpoints political standpoints or maybe it's like maybe you

Esmebelieve that I don't know there's energy in having sex like all those people that are like super um like spiritual or whatever so it it just really depends on

Brian Atlasthe person I'm not going to shame somebody for it but I'm not bring back shaming we got bring back engage myself we're going to bring back shaming we got to start shaming people oh you slept

Esmewith five guys this week shame why are you sleeping with Five Guys Brian I'm talking about like woman in one week that's

Brian Atlascrazy nice okay body count bad women women good don't don't date women with a high body count women don't date women with a B hype don't date anybody

Brian Atlaswith a high body count how about that one okay um here I'm GNA try to I know if you got a peace out I know you got to we had some notes on you uh Bella you said your last relationship is a good

Bellainsight to young girls trying to find the modern bad boy yeah um that's pretty interesting go to uh yeah if you got a

Unknownif you got a dip I guess you got a dip got the dip I'm going to try to wrap in a shorter period but uh bye it was nice nice meeting you

Andrew Wilsontoo Andrew she didn't give you as many compliments go ahead tell your story um yeah it was just you think you think calling me scary is a compliment no she she was well she was not just hold on

BellaI'm really trying to wrap the show up soon so go ahead yeah yeah um it's kind of I'll keep it short and sweet so basically it was just young high school sweetheart love I was about 16 uh he was actually we were the same age at the

Bellatime but he had just turned 17 and he actually ended up um doing some illegal stuff getting caught up and I decided I was going to be you know Captain SEO and do a whole

Bellabunch of stuff to try to get him out of trouble which was really bad because I'm 16 don't know what I'm doing when it comes to law and it kind of just turned into a downward spiral of 4 and a half

Bellayears of just back and forth mental drain emotional drain and there was a lot of infidelity that was tied into it and there was a lot of like back and

Bellaforth and it just was what everybody had made seem so good on like Instagram Tik Tok whatever like oh get you a thug because you know

Bellathey'll protect you blah blah blah blah blah but they don't really talk about like the downside of what that does to

Bellayou know a partner um if they're not raised correctly or if they're not considerate or things along those lines and it just it it really took a toll on me as a young woman and it kind of

Bellachanged my outlook that's why younger when I was younger I don't consider myself traditional at all I actually was quite promiscuous I like to party a lot I did a lot of stuff that I definitely shouldn't have done especially at such a

Bellayoung age and now that I'm older I look back and I change a lot of My Views that's why like I think body count does matter because you know your past will come back to haunt you and I've had that conversation with my boyfriend before

Bellayou know like hey you know if I had a different body count would you look at me differently we've been honest and said yes of course and it just there's a lot of things that I look back and I

Bellaregret especially in regards to that relationship um do you regret like things you did yeah I I don't regret him or meeting him because I feel like it was definitely a good was he involved in

Bellacrime yeah you said he was a he was a thug your words yeah so he stealing what what was he doing yeah before me he was dealing and then when he was with me he

Bellawas stealing uh doing uh house invasions um if you want get really yeah really spefic he was doing home invasion yeah um yeah so he was that and it did

Bellaget to a point where it just came to a head and he got caught up um and he did go away for eight months eight months you you said he'd

Bellaput you in bad situations yeah so he uh when it all happened I was actually in summer school before my senior year of high school and he was supposed to come pick me up from summer school and I

Bellaended up having to get a ride because he had lied and said he was doing something else and when I had finally gotten home he actually called me to basically write

Bellahis report to the police um to try to you know con them out of knowing it was him and it was a whole big thing and I eventually got dragged into it obviously because I

Bellafiled a false police report which is against law um so there was a whole lot that went into it but uh I learned my lesson very quickly in about 48 hours after talking to detectives and they're like hey this isn't really a good idea

Bellasince we know where you were and everything that was going on so it it was just a it was a whole at 16 it definitely was a very big eye openening experience of what type of life I was

Bellagoing into um and it just wasn't it wasn't portrayed to me the same way that it was portrayed to me prior like it wasn't happening the same way that it was portrayed to me if that

Brian Atlasmakes sense advice to the women don't date men who are involved in criminal activity no that's my recommendation especially young girls you know just

Brian Atlaslike kind of seems like it's self-evident but no no heroin addicts no criminals right yeah that that you know

Brian Atlasjust given like the real uh you know nuanced takes here on dating uh bringing it over to Michaela you said something

Michaelaabout the not knowing thing oh god um not to dispar this person that I dated but basically I was dating this guy for almost done almost done with uh

Michaelabasically for like six months and we have had oh my bad uh we've had sex before whatever and like one week goes by after and

Brian Atlasbasically I don't know how to say this PG but finishes within me and didn't tell me until one week later so I guess when and you were you were on birth control correct correct you told him you

Michaelawere on birth control and yes and then his excuse like and this is the first time I ever saw this man like sob and he was like I didn't know like my previous girlfriend said that she was on the IUD so when you said you were on the pill I

Michaelathought it was fine and I guess my in the pre-show notes it was a joke of the the question like malicious act or whatever but yeah I guess I just brought it up cuz it was just baffling that

Michaelaagain if he was a complete I was like yeah I did that whatever but he was very remorseful for it it seemed but seemed like he just did not know this

Brian Atlasinfo so from yeah my I mean my point of view on this is that uh both parties should be checking in on this like so as

Brian Atlasa guy if you're inclined to do that you know you should assuming you know you're in your situation you said you were on birth control so there was a mitigated

Brian Atlasrisk of very small risk of pregnancy um but I do think on the guy's end you it's quite polite to perhaps ask yeah but but

Brian Atlasalso I think as the woman you should if you don't want the guy to come inside you you should probably overtly state if you've communicated to him that you're on birth control I do think you should

Brian Atlasalso as the woman also perhaps make a statement of hey I'm but don't I don't want you to come inside me that might I think both the men the men and the women should both make a communication on that

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next