Elon Musk WATCHES Whatever?! Andrew Wilson! HEATED DEBATE With Liberal Feminist?! | Dating Talk #140

Date: 2024-03-04

Duration: 6h 43m

Guests

Brian Atlas

MMalia (DT140)>

MMalik (DT140)>

MMichaela (DT140)>

BBella (DT140)>

CCeleste (DT140)>

MMadison (DT182)>

AAndrew Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00TTS/Donations(audience)

SPEAKER_02Malik(guest)

SPEAKER_03Esme(guest)

SPEAKER_04Celeste(guest)

SPEAKER_05Bella(guest)

SPEAKER_06Malia(guest)

SPEAKER_07Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_08Media/Clips(audience)

SPEAKER_10Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_12Celeste/Madison(guest)

SPEAKER_13Michaela(guest)

SPEAKER_14JoJo(guest)

Key Moments

QuoteBrian Atlas opens show, noting Elon Musk replied to a Whatever clip tweet.

“welcome to the whatever dating Talk podcast... we had a little love this weekend we had Ellen musk reply to a tweet that had our video in it”

QuoteBrian shows the clip that got Elon Musk's reply: JoJo saying 'I don't think you can be sexist towards men and I don't think you can be racist towards white people'.

“I don't think you can be sexist towards men and I don't think you can be racist towards white people... Elon Musk responded... somebody shared that it got 8 million views”

QuoteAndrew Wilson introduces himself as host of The Crucible.

“my name is Andrew Wilson I am the host of The One and Only Crucible one of the fastest growing debate channels on the internet”

Key MomentMalia reveals she's been celibate for 1.5 years without specific reason, gets 20-30 Hinge likes/day but only accepts ~1.

“I've been celibate for a year and a half not for any particular reason... usually on hinge I'll wake up with like 20 or 30 [likes]... I only like match with one”

Key MomentRatings round begins: Brian asks everyone to self-rate looks on 1-10 scale.

“Stiffler is very curious to ask everyone to rate their looks on a scale of 1 to 10 starting with you going around the table”

QuoteAndrew Wilson sarcastically self-rates as a 10 on looks.

“I'm a 10 for sure explain why there you have it”

Key MomentBrian calls out JoJo's body count claim: she said body count doesn't matter but won't reveal it — implying it does matter.

“I think body count matters so I'm not going to reveal it for that reason... that question tends to be asked in response to women saying that they think body count doesn't matter... but then they have a quite a bit of hesitation when it comes to revealing their own body count”

Key MomentCeleste: story of 4-year on/off relationship with heroin addict begins. She met him at 21 when he claimed 2 years clean.

“you dated a heroin addict on and off for four years... there were more than five times on and off... he relapsed on four separate occasions I honestly couldn't tell you if it was four or more there were five I think maybe was five six”

Key MomentCeleste reveals she hid the heroin addict relationship from her family to protect his image in their eyes.

“they didn't for four years this was going on on and off where this guy was taking heroin and he never told your folks... no... I was not telling my parents to protect his image”

Key MomentJoJo argues women are oppressed in the US, citing Blizzard California lawsuit as example.

“a big one is the whole blizzard case with the lawsuit with California... the state of California sued blizzard because of the unequal treatment of women in the workplace... same exact jobs same exact positions and they were getting paid way less than the men”

Key MomentAndrew Wilson counters: Blizzard settled without admission of wrongdoing; filing a complaint doesn't prove guilt.

“you can't just put forward a complaint and say that because a complaint was made that that means that therefore complaint was true... they admitted no wrongdoing according to this settlement”

ControversyBrian reveals Google internal pay audit found they were overpaying women vs male counterparts, countering JoJo's pay gap argument.

“Google did a review an internal review and found that they were actually overpaying women uh compared to their male counterparts”

Key MomentJoJo cannot name a right that men have today that women do not. Brian presses this question.

“what right does a man have in this country that a woman does not today”

Key MomentAndrew Wilson argues selective service / male draft is the clearest example of male-specific oppression that feminists never advocate against.

“men can be pressed into selective service because nobody gives a about them... women can't... and yet they gripe on the opposite side about things that they consider to be oppressive to them when they will never have to make that ultimate sacrifice”

QuoteEsme leaves the show early before body count round concludes, thanks everyone.

“thank you for having me it was really nice to meet you guys... you weren't as scary as I thought you were going to be”

Key MomentAndrew Wilson uses gamble analogy to get Esme to concede that body count correlates with loyalty: 1 woman with 1 partner for 19 years vs 1 woman with 19 partners over 19 years — which would you gamble on for loyalty?

“if you had to gamble if you had to roll all of your dice on one which one would you say would be more likely to be more promiscuous... you're going to roll it on the person with the least body count which tells me that it matters”

QuoteEpisode wrap-up; Brian thanks Andrew Wilson and the panel.

“okay we're going to wrap up there guys long show long show... go subscribe to Andrew Wilson's The Crucible channel”

Topics Discussed

Show intro and Elon Musk tweet reaction

Brian introduces the show from Santa Barbara. Notes Elon Musk replied to a Whatever clip tweet (got 8M views). Also mentions Trace Cyrus (Metro Station) shared the channel. Andrew Wilson joins remotely.

Guest introductions and relationship status

All guests introduce themselves (name, age, location, occupation). Go around table on relationship status and longest relationships. JoJo: single 2yr, 1 relationship 4yr. Esme: divorced. Malia: single 2.5yr, celibate 1.5yr. Malik: single 2.5yr. Michaela: in relationship 2.5yr. Bella: in relationship since Oct. Celeste: in relationship since Oct, longest was on/off 4yr. Madison: in relationship 1.5yr. Andrew Wilson: married 10+ years.

Dating apps and Malia's dating experience

Discussion of dating app experiences. Malia: gets 20-30 Hinge likes/day but only matches ~1; was banned from apps for not responding; had 1 date in 4 months; prefers nerdy/gamer types. JoJo: only relationship was long-distance. Brian probes Malia on why she doesn't pursue dates.

Hypergamy and women dating up

Andrew Wilson and Brian argue that women hypergamously seek men with more resources. JoJo and others debate whether this is a generational trend. Discussion on whether women's financial independence is changing the dynamic. Andrew cites that hypergamy seems to be increasing not decreasing.

Should women date up: Andrew Wilson scenario

Andrew Wilson presents scenario: 25-year-old man choosing between hot 21-year-old and established 27-year-old. Discussion on what men vs women prioritize in partner selection. Brian cites statistics on men preferring beauty and motherly qualities; women preferring security and resources.

Dating patterns and relationship timelines

JoJo discusses her long-distance relationship. Esme discusses her marriage at 18, divorce at 28, and post-separation hookup culture experience. Discussion of modern dating apps and communication.

Partner preferences: looks, dating apps, nerdy guys

Brian asks each guest what they're looking for. Malia: nerdy/gamer guys, engineers, anime nerds. Brian notes Malia gets many matches but rarely accepts. Discussion of dating app rejection asymmetry between men and women (Hinge: 20-30 likes/day vs 1 match accepted).

Ratings round: self-rate looks 1-10

Brian asks guests to rate their looks. Malia: 6. Malik: 7. Andrew Wilson: sarcastically 10. JoJo: implied ~7 range. Celeste: ~7. Bella: 6.

Celeste: dating a heroin addict for 4 years

Brian addresses notes on Celeste's on/off 4-year relationship with a heroin addict. He relapsed 5-6 times; each relapse ended the 'on' phase. She never ended it — always his ghosting. Met when she was 21, he was 24 and claimed 2 years clean. She stayed because she saw more than the addiction. Hid relationship from family to protect his image. Others discuss rescuer/fixer mentality.

Feminism definition debate

Brian and Andrew argue feminism is female supremacy, not equality. Malik argues feminism is about equality; Brian says that's egalitarianism. Andrew distinguishes classic liberalism from feminism. Quick round: JoJo identifies as feminist (equity-based); others mostly do not. Malik says he is egalitarian.

Are women oppressed in the US: JoJo vs Andrew Wilson

JoJo argues women are oppressed, cites Blizzard California lawsuit (equal pay). Andrew and Brian challenge this: complaint not proof of guilt; settlement without admission of wrongdoing. Brian cites Google internal review found they were overpaying women. Debate on whether inequity = oppression. JoJo cannot name a right men have that women don't (in contemporary US).

Traditional vs feminist panel self-identification

Quick round: do you identify as feminist? JoJo: yes (equity definition). Others: no. Malik: egalitarian. Andrew declares if guests don't identify as feminist, they can be assessed by whether they're traditional.

Women in corporate settings and workplace oppression

JoJo brings Blizzard case again. Brian introduces Google's internal audit finding women were overpaid. Andrew and Brian challenge whether corporate incidents prove systemic oppression. 1970s sex work policing example from JoJo about prostitutes vs pimps.

WWII civilian death casualty statistics video

Brian or Andrew plays WWII casualty documentary video. Andrew argues men were primary victims even counting civilians, due to massacres targeting men. JoJo pushes back. Debate on whether military casualties vs civilian casualties shift the picture.

Selective Service and men's draft: is it oppression

Extended debate: Brian and Andrew argue men being subject to selective service while women are exempt is a form of male oppression. JoJo disputes this framing. Andrew: men can be pressed into service because society does not value them. Malik raises conscription as a counterpoint.

Esme departure and final discussion

Esme thanks the panel and leaves early (~6:10) before body count discussion concludes (3-hour drive home). Andrew compliments her articulation. Remaining panel continues discussion on body count, promiscuity, and relationship fitness.

Promiscuity, body count, and pair bonding

Going around the table on whether body count matters. Results: Celeste/Madison: 8 and 7. Bella/others: 5-6 range. JoJo: declined specific number, range above 30. Esme: doesn't care personally about body count. Andrew uses gamble analogy to get Esme to concede body count correlates with loyalty. Esme concedes gamble point but maintains she would not choose partner by body count alone.

Wrap-up and outro

Brian closes the show. Thanks Andrew Wilson and the panel. Plugs The Crucible channel. Madison reads TTS. Brian raids a WoW streamer on Twitch.

Transcript

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BellaISP there's always that saying there's passport bro there's always a what is it a somebody for everybody so keep that in mind yeah find yourself a 49 Queen dude I won't steal her from you dude well you

JoJosaid uh beginning of the show he's a fan of the show go get some status right if is that is that like an own no no no it's not at all it with the logic of your show what what was wait what

Brian Atlasstatus because uh if you think women day up go get rich go get rich well yeah you you try to level yourself up in as many ways as you can it can obviously start with your looks get in the gym try to

Brian Atlasmake yourself as appealing physically as you can get some you know get you know try your best to level up you can do it get rich we believe in famous sure but

Brian Atlaslet's be realistic too like it's a lot like saying oh just get some status like do you realize how hard it is to just go get some status you can't just go to the store and be like excuse me clerk I'd

Brian Atlaslike some status today all of your status give me some status he just needs to come down the whatever podcast this is kind of most people who try to get some sort of status will probably never end up getting it it's the same way like

Brian Atlasoh just like become like a super charismatic Charming guy like most people don't even have the capacity to ever become like funny or charming or charismatic most people are just going

Brian Atlasto be normal average people of average personality so I know how useful that is you could consider you know what to the guys who struggle with dating there's a couple things of right

Brian Atlasactually have some notes Here I want to I want to I want to help this guy out here I got a couple things give me a hold on let me I got I wrote this down because I got a couple things here okay

Brian Atlashold on so uh first off you got to uh I have a 14 tier approach okay four tier approach uh you got to minmax yourself right so any of you who play World of

Brian AtlasWarcraft the concept of minimizing undesirable qualities and maximizing desirable qualities in order to achieve the most powerful character possible in an RPG in this case The Game of Life of

Brian Atlasdating you got to get it look having a six-pack is not a requisite for getting success in dating but it doesn't hurt no smoking no drinking no drugs got to eat healthy

Brian Atlasminimiz stress EXT exercise you need a clear mind and a clear body so you know make yourself look good then you got minmax your approach okay you got a you

Brian Atlasknow dating apps in person club like not not bars and clubs like join us like

Brian Atlasa a club D like a sport club F like you got to min max how you're sourcing the ladies you can't just rely on one thing

Brian Atlasyou got to you know okay can you get Social Circle going can you get the dating apps going can you do cold approach you know it's cold approach is actually uh I think it's on the rise

Celeste/Madisonokay then you third option third thing passport bro go to where you'll be appreciated did you hear about the pport

Brian Atlasbro that just like got deleted in Latin America I think so there's listen there are definitely downsides to the passport br

Brian Atlasuh also if you're that much of a Doomer with when it comes to dating find a hobby find a passion don't look back so if after making a good

Brian Atlasfaith effort to self-improve and you just you can't find success you're not going to fully give up but dating now has to be on the back burner and you're going to throw

Brian Atlasyourself head first into a hobby or a passion my own recommendation and this is geographically restricted a little bit if you have the resources I want you to

Brian Atlastake up surfing I know this sounds silly but when you catch that first wave you will be hooked I used to cancel dates with girls if the swell was good

Brian Atlasenough chest High goodbye even in Waist tie I'm going to cancel on a chick if it's if I'm jonesing for some some juicy waves you know so I I'll tell you this gentlemen

Brian AtlasI'm telling you surfing is better than is is that what you're still single no actually I haven't I've got some injuries so I haven't unfortunately been able to Surf much anymore so um but

Brian AtlasI'm sorry if you okay like you will always rather if you get into surfing guys you would always rather have a good surf session than get laid okay like give me two options right

Brian Atlasgo surf head high glassy ringcon with no one out or have sex with the hottest girl in the world throwing my wet suit on and getting some waves I I think an

Brian Atlasoutlier then dude h no no no no no no you can ask Surfers ask Surfers would you rather get have sex with the hottest

Brian Atlaschick of your life or go get barreled all day I guarantee you they're like nah bro can wait I want to get some waves no no no play play play the cops I

Brian Atlaswould let let me put it if if I had to choose okay between being celibate for a year and like being able to just go surf the best waves but I can't for a

Malikyear give me some waves mental waves here we come so you're telling me you have a once in a lifetime opportunity to hook up with margar Robbie or any aist Top Model whatever

Brian Atlasvers you're going to choose getting Barrel rolled by the same waves that you bar what the or Pitt bro so pitted getting pitted bro okay by by waves all day long that you could

Malikdo any other day with good waves first off why did you pick Margo Robbie she's trending right now I don't know there's a lot of attractive I said any AA celebrity who's hot I the hottest give

Brian Atlasme the hottest chick if I can surf I would rather surf it it doesn't even have to be barreling give me head high ringcon to myself for a day I'm taking ringcon

Malikokay but give me the best wavs do you know what you remind me of so I used to on Twitch be a part of the speedrunning community you remind me of the speedrunners who would say I would

Malikrather just have good uh RNG all day long than have sex with a hot girl surfing very small majority surfing's on a totally different level no this is like speedr Runners I want good RNG this

Malikday I'd rather that than like a hot chick who who in the speed running Community ever said that I I don't want to name people I have a lot of friends in that all right

Brian Atlasto to finish my point gentlemen if if the dating thing isn't working again throw yourself head first into a a passion a hobby and if you have the means my recommendation is surfing get

Brian Atlasyourself to the coast save up if you have to somewhere you can surf get an instructor trust me there's better things than sex and dating if I had to pick one for the rest

Malikof my life if I had to pick one for the rest of my life surfing or sex surfing oh I mean I'm CIB surfing I'm C I'm not saying sex is everything I'm just saying that I think most you're you're

Malikgeneralizing that most men would prefer surfing over having sex and I'm saying you're an outli if if they but I think they should if they have a passion for

Celeste/Madisonsurfing they will always pick some juicy waves I think men I kind of agree with that every Surfer I know is like so I don't think you understand how

Brian AtlasPsych From C I'm from the mountains here's the thing right surfing it's like it's not a thing where you can go at any time like it's very especially in some Geographic locations like here in Santa

Brian AtlasBarbara like you'll maybe get 10 20 good days in a year hey AB Che thank you for the gifted 20 memberships thank you uh so it's it's not like oh let's go to the tennis court

TTS/Donationslike you can't that's how it is with surfing like G One Motorsports donated $100 Brian surfing sounds cool but racing is an addiction that makes heroin

TTS/Donationsseem like a vague longing for something salty as much trouble as women are wait until you you want to afford the time and effort look if there's thank you good one I appreciate it look if there's

Brian Atlasany doomers in the chat just and and you're upset about your dating prospects even if you're a woman try surfing surf but it's more so for a dudes but just

Brian Atlasget yourself go to Hawaii wherever go go get some good juicy waves and I guarantee you you're going to be like yeah there's better things than sex just saying the ocean is the only thing in the world I hate do you

Malikthink that's cap no not even I don't I I honestly believe you one of the only things I hate is the ocean I think it terrifies Me Maybe maybe that's why I'm a little adrenaline but no I think any man your advice is correct just find a

Brian Atlashobby find something you're passionate about it doesn't have to be surfing maybe surfing is great I don't know let me double down I'm going to double down on this I would rather go surf head high glassy ringcon with nobody out then like

Malikhave sex with like 10 of the hottest women in the world about having sex neither of us do casual sex anyway so just find something you're passionate about if you're depressed that you don't get laid you have no life you are a

Brian Atlasloser you need to find a passion oh my God FL life how you life in the chat he is on fire thank you FL life appreciate it man all right let me read a couple chats here and then we'll get on to our

Maliknext uh again Brian we agree you just like to argue with me because you know I'll argue back no I agree with him I think you have you ever gone some like juicy waves

JoJodown Diego like have you ever surfed the this a good oh blacks have you surfed blacks in SD I mean I I learned how to serve but I not a huge like La Hoya I'm

Brian Atlasnot a huge fan you got some like juicy waves in La Hoya or what I just you ever go down to Tijuana and just my least favorite thing about surfing is the wet suits the wet suits are crazy yeah I don't like wet suits although San Diego

Brian Atlashas warm warm water like you can surf in the 32 32 year rounds probably well like taking off the wetu is just a whole mission after you get in the water yeah wet suit sucks but part of the

Brian Atlasexperience well you're probably like putting on a shitty rental wet suit like you have to have your own you have to have your own okay let's do some chats we have uh did I read this oh I think I read this one right uh yeah Maddie can

Celeste/Madisonyou read this one so when it comes to height yes it does matter to a certain degree I am 5'4 and have accepted that I did have a situationship with someone that was 510 but we do have to put in a bunch of extra work I don't mind it but

Malikit is harder what do you mean by extra work back in bed or yeah I feel like he had to try harder than maybe someone who was taller that's

Malikjust how I interpreted it like he had to put in more effort into the relationship uh I I don't know I think that's probably the way he means it like he's he's having to compensate for his for I

Malikmean we often hear like I think women will even admit this well I'll date a guy who's ex but he's going to have to make up with it in this other way yeah and I even said that like if you checked all my boxes and you were short sure

Brian Atlasthat's fine but if you're short and you don't meet half of my needs well that's the thing is like the guy who's short has to be like really exceptional

Brian Atlascompared to the guy who's like 6' three who a lot of women will just like ignore red flags and we'll just like tolerate a lot of why did you little why did you do that MADD is it you have

Brian Atlasexperience on this one no my nose was running oh okay it was like a slight exhale like you kind of had that experience you know no oh okay all right uh okay we have

Celeste/MadisonKings can you read this one man I devoted my 20s to 30s building an empire rarely dated my girlfriend is 19 years younger we have excellent conversations and compliment Each Other

Celeste/MadisonWell I provide and defend with my AR-15 she supports and Comforts I'm not a predator PS gun control is sexist wait how old are you now

Brian AtlasCJ you said 19 years younger in your 30s how old are you now no he's he devoted his 20s to 30s to building in I'm

Brian Atlasthinking he's May late 30s 40s I think CJ why don't you specify Man by the way guys just a reminder if you can you know we don't mind the YouTube super chats but if you

Brian Atlascan do it through streamlabs same exact price just YouTube takes a brutal brutal 30% cut so uh you know if you know do through streamlabs think about it all right thank you guys uh and then we have

Celeste/Madisonthis one if you can read that one Maddie Beauty true alignment is based on the environment who is likely to be more attractive the child who is forced into sports at age five or the child who's

Celeste/Madisongiven a PlayStation at age five all of us can be Chads and Stacy's # we areour environment fo word okay thank you Vincent Lawrence appreciate

TTS/Donationsit former dealer hold on come unone donated $100 that's Bull on the height Malik coming from you who always talks about wanting to have date someone with

MalikSuperior genetics I doubt if someone checked everything else but how to you try to date them okay unknown why didn't you use your real username that's my

Malikfirst question uh second of all I have stated ideally I want someone to have good genetics that's not me only saying I'll date people with Superior J oh got

TTS/Donationsanother one I'm so glad him not dating donated $100 nothing better than sex I have been the crew member of an M1 A1 battle tank when

TTS/Donationsthe 120 mimet goes off there is no woman in this world that can make me harder than that Metal Beast made me that is such that is such a fact dude my

Bellaboyfriend is a vet and he said he said the same thing about me he was also he he said the same thing about you no well he okay so he used to work on jet and he called you a tank what no wait wait wait

Bellawait let me rephrase let me rephrase let me rephrase so my boyfriend's a vet and he's he's used to work on Jets and he he said to me like you know if I could give one more thing to hear those again i'

Bellagive you up and I'm like okay that's fair I'll take it yeah I'll take it no he but he's he's nice about it damn but he does like he he dump you to he would

Belladump me for a day if we remove the levity and the Laughing from this so your boyfriend said he'd rather listen to a jet then date you is that the way well like if he could be in those Jets

Bellaand like be around them not rather than date me but like you know what I mean yeah okay one day of sex wouldn't he exchange it for one day sex huh just one day days not bad well if he I guess if

Brian Atlashe could get a week he' probably take it right it's not a bad thing oh did you want to fully respond to uncon UNC count he was saying about you want you said you want to date someone un cuz it that's how it spelled

Malikoh was you said you wanted to date someone with Superior genetics no so that person clearly has seen my content before um which is why they donate anonymously I'm not sure why but I have

Malikstated in the past that I want to be with someone who has good genetics so I never said it's a requirement and I never I joke about Superior genetics all

Malikthe time because on on my my twitch Channel I'm often very narcissistic like I often say like I I'm superior as far as like genetics brains and everything I don't wait yes that's delusional yes that's delusional you say that about

Brian Atlasyourself yes I make these statements what do you say restate it here on the whatever podcast okay to everyone who's watching wait tilt your mic down to everyone

Malikwho's watching you tilted it up yeah well gen before brain go ahead we restate it yes I'm a clown you're probably laughing at me and thinking I'm

Malikstupid as but in my own head I love myself I'm happier about myself than you probably are I know nothing about your life I know nothing about you so by

Malikdefault I know myself better and I know I'm happy with myself and I know I'm not perfect but I love myself and I think my genetics are pretty damn good so ideally I would want someone with pretty good genetics but that's besides the fact I

Malikjust love myself a lot and I say that a lot what are your Superior genetics okay so Al articulate this is not like a serious

Maliktopic it's it's more of like like satire but I have dark eyes if I reproduced with someone hold on if not saying it's better or worse but if I reproduce with

Maliksomeone if I have children in the future the chances of my future kid having dark eyes are significantly High because dark eyes are superior genetic to lighter colored eyes they're more dominant as

Brian Atlasfar as genetics go wait so you're saying you're you have Superior genetics because you have dark guys CU you have dominant genetics dominant that doesn't make it wait but you're talking dominant

Brian Atlasand recessive traits but joke this is an ongoing joke on my channel wouldn't the argument be that like broadly speaking

Brian Atlasacross cultures lighter eyes are are deemed more attractive to you maybe I think so basically wouldn't you be wrecking somebody else's genetics yeah with your dark eyes if they have light

Malikeyes I'm just using that as an example I have I'm Middle Eastern so my genetics are more dominant if I was dating someone who's African-American or African but you said Superior they gen

Malikyes because I cuz she loves herself yes Maddie do you want to help I don't agree with you but I I think no I think she's saying that

Unknownshe thinks it's Superior because she loves herself so she's yes that's all it is it's not it's not it's not but isn't it like broadly speaking even across different cultures even in cultures

Malikwhere dark eyes are dominant M don't they elevate people who have light eyes preference it's just a preference it's not just preference I think it's it's like just like most people well that's

Malikfine again it's I know it's look I find dark eyes attractive but I'm just if I called myself the smartest person in this room right now I could convince myself yes I know it's delusional and I at least you know it's delusional I'm

Malikvery well aware I'm very well aware these These are opinions and they are not facts huh hm [Laughter]

Brian Atlascan you do a little dance like that no I don't dance okay all right uh let's get through these chats so we had uh I do hand or something for you but there's

TTS/Donationsmany $100 hey Brian love your content girl in the middle is beautiful but probably wouldn't have a shot I'll take up surfing instead thanks bro what the

Brian Atlaswait what that might have been the guy who sent in the what who was the guy it was one of the YouTube super chats yo arthus menil thank you man that's definitely uh talk about Kik World of War I think he's girl in the middle is

TTS/Donationsbeautiful I think he's shooting yeah he's shooting a shot at you oh fly you're in a relationship donated $100 I think she means Superior in the

TTS/Donationsfact that it is dominant I don't agree with Evolution but it does make sense BTW JoJo you're hot and I'm six but quick job look for me in

MalikDMS that is that's two people right there boom two you got suitors hey Kirby every time a guy stated he has six figures and is interested in you you've

Maliksmiled she's checking her DM a second we leave 100% do you find that attractive that that he's maybe a higher status in life than you not not trying to bring this combo back just yes no I just I

Celeste/Madisonthink it's flattering the messages I I thought I was going to get a lot of hate so I think the general Compliments are nice like all man can I have you everyone hates me right that's cool

Celeste/Madisonformer D dealer popular high school kid dated a cheerleader ex-bodybuilder nephew of gov Jen had massive parties rest assured the guest views SK every

Celeste/Madisonwoman I was into my size told me a height wasn't a matter she just wasn't interested LOL don't I can say this I've been on a

Brian AtlasI'm I mean I'm 6'1 so most women are not taller than me but I have dated women who are like my height and taller I personally don't have an issue with it

Brian Atlasinterestingly enough um most of those dates when it's with a woman who's taller again I have absolutely no issue dating woman who's taller than me don't have any issues with my hide at

Brian Atlasall the success rate if I were to compare to women who are shorter than me is markedly uh lower with women who are

Brian Atlastaller than me I know this is anecdotal but in my own personal experience as someone who's 6'1 when I've dated women who are my height or taller it seems to be more so on their

Brian Atlaspart that they had they take an issue with the height thing C can I just it's anecdotal but can I just address the fact that we're just going to skip over former um blank dealer I I don't know I don't know if I can say and maybe maybe

Brian Atlasthat was the reason they didn't want to they you just just throwing it out there I don't know oh perhaps per chance we have David uh David we need it we need this to come through as a super chat

Celeste/Madisonporor favore uh but thank you for your membership she has a boyfriend only dates tankers chick has the face of a character from Star Wars Brian can you

Celeste/Madisonbring someone who actually has a personality rip Patrice O'Neal this clown chick needs to understand when to insert a period in a verbal sentence yeah who is I Yap okay if you have a

Brian Atlasproblem with it don't listen when I talk actually we should react to that Patrice video we haven't done in a while so we'll do the we'll react to the Patrice video yo Bron SS thank you man appreciate it uh someone who actually

Brian Atlashas a personality I don't know this I feel like everyone here this a good personality table you know we got Madison here tonight so I mean that was good you know okay all right I think we're caught up on our

Brian Atlaschats let's get into some notes Here We got some notes let me hide all these really quick actually you know what before we do the notes Stiffler is very curious to ask everyone to rate their looks on a scale of 1 to 10 starting

Maliawith you going around the table go ahead like a six okay I'd I'm a solid six man I'm so sorry I'm going to go

Maliksix oh God which which half do I rate do I ums I'll keep my answer from last time I I'll say I'm a seven um I don't know I

Brian Atlasthink I'm a little above average i' say I'm a seven yeah seven eight oh Nick you totally missed that I think right did you miss yeah can you do it again yeah

Brian Atlasseven eight eight six oh no five sorry five I'm a five you went down you went up and

Michaelathen yeah we got Andrew here now he's back to I'm a 10 for sure explain why there you have it he

JoJois a 10 it's beautiful it's beautiful all right no 10 at the table except for oh I'm surprised she doesn't say 10 since she was said she's Superior yeah

Malikthose brown eyes my own eyes like I see myself as a nine be I think I'm pretty great but there's always room for improvement but the general public like anytime I've even on my twitch a lot of people are

Maliklike oh put a poll have guys rate you it's always generally between like a seven and a nine um I I don't think I'm that much above average that the rest of the world perceives myself so I would say

Brian Atlasgenerally I would get rated around seven okay all right let's get into some of our notes here so wait who's Bender oh wait that's you uh okay so you said that

Brian Atlasyou dated a heroin addict on and off for four years yeah okay uh what's the full details there so first off how many

Celestetimes on and off was it uh I couldn't tell you um there were more than

Celestefive times on and off honestly might it might even be more um what details do you want how did I get there so of the

Celestetimes that it was off who ended things he did he every single time every single time you never not once you ended it and it no and it wasn't ending it it was a relapse

Celesteso on and off it was a it was a period of him just not being there he just what were how long were the periods um it

Celestedepends it had depended I think maybe one of the times was like Max three

TTS/Donationsmonths I would say so he would make the relationship off by Apollo Shinoda donated

TTS/Donations$100 girl in the baby blue is not a six de an eight as always only nine is Madison great show tonight you have anything to say to this

Celeste/MadisonMadison

Brian Atlasthanks all right so okay so but you said it was an on again off again relationship so there would there would never be like a cuz you said he would

Celesteend it but it was wasn't really him overtly ending things he would just be in the yeah but during those times it's like I'm not going to state that I'm in a relationship with you when you

Celestecompletely ghosted me and was on this little like okay so he would ghost you would you um who would reinitiate

Brian Atlascontact he did every time okay MH every time yeah so why did the first time it was off again it

Brian Atlaswas because he relapsed yeah when you met him was he using no okay but he did he disclose to you that he was using uh that he he had used in the past that he was a heroin addict yeah yes when you

Brian Atlasmet him mhm you dat and you said you dated him for four years on and off yeah okay so someone called you at nine yeah somebody called you at nine um thank you

Celestewait so okay you would how many so he relapsed on four separate occasions I honestly couldn't tell you if it was four or more there

Celestewere five I think maybe was five six yeah just about I it would be a period of him relapsing being gone on this

Celesterelapse hitting rock bottom and then trying to get clean again and then revisiting the relationship how long had he been clean when you met him he told

Celesteme two years I believe two years is and was that actually true or was he Shifting the numbers on how long know throughout the whole thing I believe it

Brian Atlaswas true okay and so you you were together with him for how long before he relapsed it happened shortly after we

Celestestarted dating um maybe like a month a month in a month in and so how for how long was he in

Celestecommunicado uh like at well so that first initial relapse wasn't oh it wasn't off no you stayed you like stayed

Celestewith him kind of it it wasn't did you use also did I use yeah no okay yeah no um so

Brian Atlaswhy why did you not break up with him after the I assume heroin use is a deal breaker for most people right so why did

Celesteyou stay with him because well being that young I was na I was naive and how how young were you 21 when you first met

Brian Atlashim yeah I was 21 and wait you said you've been single for 2 months two months or two years excuse me uh oh sorry I've got my sh mixed up hold on no

Celestesorry you're you're currently in a a relationship okay I see sorry I got I got mixed up my bad um but so okay why did you stay with him I had no idea what

CelesteI was getting myself into given obviously heroin addiction is something that yes anybody would run the opposite direction but I think I

Celestejust saw more in him at the time um than just the addiction so when he initially came to me and told me like

Celesteface on that he was relapsing in the beginning like when we were first together it was it wasn't something that

Celestewas like sneakily done around and I just got to learn how I'm sorry um it wasn't something that

Celestewas super sneakily done I just got to learn how dark it got I didn't know what I was getting myself into you thought you could help him yeah and it was a

Celeste/Madisonwild ride by the end of your relationship did did he get over that or

Celestewas he continuing to relapse um by the end um towards the end at the last

Celestereason when he reached out the last time the reason was that he relapsed um and then we he reached out to me and we he was getting clean again and I went to go

Celestesee him and then there was just some other stuff that happened and then we just that's when it ended for how how old was he he's 29 now well then so you

Brian Atlaswhen you met him you were he 24 and you were how 21 21 24 okay yeah um was there anything

Celeste/Madisonlike insane that he did to you guys in the relationship cuz I don't know you said when he was using you weren't in the relationship with him or that was

Celestewhen it was off there were times that we were together when he was using during like his relapse there were just times that initially it got so bad where he would just like go on his T yeah his

Celestetangent he would pick that like pick that path so so he didn't do yes there there was lots of crazy things that I

Brian Atlasexperienced during that time did you prior to the first off did you experience any of those crazy things uh no not necessarily it was just

Brian Atlasa buildup why would argue finding out your yeah boyfriend doing heroin that's probably a pretty big thing but uh so so

Celestewhy would you keep getting back with him because I I saw more in him than just addiction addiction is not like it's something that I knew that I didn't it

Celestehad nothing to do with me so I did want to just be there to support him and I felt like I had a better understanding of addiction than most people where it's like people Mo most of the time believe

Celestethat an addict is always just going to be an addict and know like just pick you know the drugs but but he kind of did yeah but but he kind of did yes yeah he

Brian Atlasdid ultimately you said he he relapsed five times plus yeah uhhuh and did your parents know about this relationship uh

Andrew Wilsonmy mom does yeah or my mom did after the fact I didn't share this how how early did your parents know that this guy was a heroin addi it was till after that I

Celesteshared it with my mom how after the relationship was done yeah so you you kept that hidden from your family yes my mom knew to an extent that

Celestethere was something going on but she didn't um pry about

Andrew Wilsonit they you I mean they didn't for four years this was going on on and off where this guy was taking heroin and he never to told your folks at all

Celesteno wow okay it's some I mean it's something during the time it was something that I at the time and I come to realize this later that I was not

Celestetelling my parents to protect his image basically to protect like yeah exactly His Image His Image in their eyes yeah exactly well didn't it also protect your

Celesteimage though yeah that too yeah I was dealing with so much at the time that I didn't want to deal with what my like deal with that having to bring that

Malikstress to my family as well because correct me if I'm wrong but you had hoped and believed him that he would not be a heron addict anymore and he would give that up to be with you no it wasn't about being with me like I no but just

Malikin general you were hoping he would recover and now relax that was the end goal didn't necessarily feel the need to tell that because you were hoping would be something of the past not necessarily no it was just something I didn't want to

Celestestress my like parents about you still care about this guy um as far as like I hope he's doing well but I don't have any contact with

Celestehim and what he's doing right now is what he's doing i' I've tried to be there for him during the time that we were together but I can't say that I

Celestemean yes in a sense because I do care if he's doing okay but again I'm not going to reach out to check on him or anything I have no idea where he is so wait did you

Celesteum when it was off would you be dating other men or were you just um there was a couple of time like maybe two times

Celestethat were off yeah that I was and I made that clear when he ended up coming back there was a couple times that I tried going on like a couple dates there was one time um when we were split for about

Celestelike five months I was dating somebody else but that just didn't end up working out prior to well did it not work out because you were hoping that the heroin

Celesteman would come back into the picture no it just it ended prior to him even coming back but it just we weren't compatible it just ended because do you

Brian Atlasthink it's um abnormal to continuously date someone who's uh addicted to heroin no wait

Celeste/Madisonthat's not that's well I think if you're in a relationship and you are truly devoted to the person and you want to pursue something with them and it's very meaningful to you you're naturally going

Brian Atlasto want to help them recover she was uh only dating him for a month right you said you found out a month into the relationship that he relapsed or no no no it was a month into the you knew

Brian Atlasearlier on in the relationship that he had uh issues with drug use but then uh a month in he relapsed mhm a lot

Celeste/Madisonof women fall into the Trap of I can fix things I think a month in is that's your exit strategy a month it was and he

Celesteand and yes that had an exit he tried to give me an exit plan when he told me that he was relapsing and it was getting bad he tried to give me an out and yeah I think I stayed to try to not fix him

Celestebut give him the support that I thought he needed and it did I believe it kind of sounds like fixing him I I mean I guess if you want to put it that way

Celesteyeah but um and the I feel and from what I saw the support in the beginning did um end he did end up getting clean he

Brian Atlaswent to rehab and got clean and and um yeah but this guy locked up like four years of your life dating him yep it's a long time um I mean was he on other

Andrew Wilsondrugs by the way when you're a heroin addict you do everything there's no so he was doing so he was doing everything and heroin I mean when you're that's

Celesteyour addiction is that specific drug but you're around everything else so so like what else was this guy doing was he like Crystal me

Celesteright was he that's every every other could if you consider heroin being like the top of the worst drugs everything else it's it's in the same you're around

Andrew Wilsonthe same thing when you're using like you're on the streets so when You' have a relapse a heroin relapse would he smoke crystal meth and and this kind of

Celestething was he was using that as well but I knew that like during his Rampages his other adct the other addicts he was was around that that was like a casual thing

Brian Atlasto be doing well I don't know if this is a hot take but uh my advice to both men and

Brian Atlaswomen this isn't the gendered thing uh junkie is not very high on the list

Brian Atlasof people you should date no it's not I would not is that a hot take I maybe a

Brian Atlasred flag maybe a deal breaker junky relapsing you know what I mean I will I will say people can definitely like recover and clean up their lives but

Brian Atlasduring that time don't think you can save them because you can't well let me take it a step further they have to save themselves I would argue at least look here's my

Brian Atlasperspective on the male side of things uh if she has a history of drug use uh you should preclude her from consideration when it comes to dating just point blank yeah for for me person drugs are deal bre there plenty

Brian Atlasof people that are not drug addicted or don't have a history of drug addiction plenty of fish in the sea uh again what about stuff like weed Brian you don't

Brian Atlascare about that do you uh I'm actually I'm not it obviously it's not as hard of a drug as heroin or these other hard drugs but I actually think

Brian Atlasthat uh significant marijuana usage is actually a character defect uh and uh I uh I personally I don't smoke I don't

Brian Atlassmoke weed if she did it minimally it's okay but if it's significant if she uses it significantly I think that that's uh a red flag I

Malikthink there's also a difference between someone who occasionally smokes than a stoner well I'd prefer someone who just doesn't I I agree with you on I'm completely she smokes occasionally I don't think that's not going to be a

Brian Atlasdeal breaker for me but I would prefer somebody who doesn't smoke and I mean Illy when it comes to drinking I don't really drink so I'd prefer someone who doesn't drink yeah

Michaelaso why Andrew are you a pothead h no I do not partake he's been lightting up this whole time he's a

Brian Atlassmoker your advice is tobacco nicotine yep nicotine nicotine nicotine okay uh damn though that's heavy that is heavy

Andrew Wilsonyou're a champ yeah cuz that's I wanted to follow up with a couple of questions if you don't mind on this um so was this guy engaging also in criminal activity

Andrew Wilsonheavy criminal activity during this time uh that yeah he had gotten arrested a couple of times did you get involved in any of that criminal activity as well

Celestewith him no like did he I mean did he try to drag you into it no it was I think that was one of the things that probably not necessarily kept me around

Celestefor so long but um his separation from I don't know how to put this

Celesteum his seeing his struggle on trying to separate his addiction from his normal life like just seeing the someone who had that

Celestestruggle trying to get clean and couldn't and and fell into like the black hole of addiction was something that he kept very separate from from or

Celestetried to keep very separate from our relationship so no he didn't like try to get me involved in any of that did you

Celesteever inadvertently end up having to pay for his habit uh uh there were times

Celestethat I later found out that it was yes kind of that unknowingly I guess yeah yeah okay yeah I was just uh I was just

Michaelacurious four years is a long time to be with a heroin addict right yeah very long time if you're okay with anrew what would he say when you were like trying

Celesteto help him what was his answer of like I mean the as far as trying to help him it wasn't

Celestereally I don't know how to answer that because there's no direct like you know you have so much more to offer there's not like those direct kind of answers for somebody it's it's just I guess what

Celeste/Madisonexcuses would he give or would he say think know in a way that there's going to be nothing that is going to change the way they feel because when you are addicted to a drug it's not you it's the

Celeste/Madisondrug taking over your body it is the drug making decisions for you in your life and it's really hard to go back from that so they just like know that they're doomed kind of and it's hard for

Celeste/Madisonthem to get better because they know that and they you have to hit they don't know how to help themselves because it's right in front of them yeah and then in their mind the only thing that helps them is the drug and that's why it's a

Michaelaconstant Loop yeah so what was like the final straw for you of like the last of him saying I can get better I could do this what was the last there wasn't if

CelesteI'm being completely honest I think that I'd never no matter how many times like and that's where when I was saying in the beginning I don't think I think a

Celestelot of people see addiction and see like a loss L cause and that's where addicts have such a hard time gaining that support because they lose

Celestethat trust from the support they got originally so many times and that situation and like in that case our situation got so detrimental where I couldn't be his support anymore I

Celestestarted becoming like part of the problem because I I went like able like anytime something would happen I just went like completely it was really toxic

Celesteum so there wasn't really a time it honestly just ended on terms where it wasn't going to it was so toxic towards the end that that's what was the

Celestedefining factor that it wasn't going to work I don't think I ever lost faith in the fact that he could get clean so I'm sorry that happened yeah thank you it's

Esmeokay yeah not not a lot of people can do that for other people not not necessarily like be their savior or whatever ever but as you say addicts um

Esmethey they up a lot you know they they lose a lot of the support that they have and because of that I think it makes things a lot worse a lot faster

Esmebecause when and if they do come to their senses and an off day and they're like all right maybe I'm messing up I need help no one's really there to help them they an addict won't get ready they

Celestewon't get help unless they're ready so anybody can try to do anything for them give them all the resources but it's not going to happen until they're ready and it's hard to yeah be the person that's going to be there when they aren't ready

Celeste/Madisonand you can have like the sympathy for them like you said I feel like everyone also looks at addicts like a lost cause but at the same time you do have to take into account that they fully did that themselves and they are driving those

Celeste/Madisonpeople out of their life that want to help them and want to support them and they truly just don't want to get better until they're ready like you said would you would you go through or put yourself through that again am I allowed to cuss

Andrew Wilsonyou better ultimately my last question on this as I'm sure Brian wants to move the convo on but would you say in

Andrew Wilsonretrospect that you were as much of an enabler of the behavior as you were somebody uh ultimately who was assisting and putting a stop to it uh no I don't think so I think as I

Celestelearned with his addiction I um and even just his environment you obviously dating an addict you learn a lot about addiction

Celesteand I don't think that I mean maybe at one point because I was so naive about what was happening that I couldn't differentiate what was

Celestelike going on if I couldn't tell if um at sometimes if he was lying to me or I couldn't tell that he was relapsing at

Celestefirst so um in those cases yes but I think in the sense of trying like the support that I tried to give him or how I thought I was helping him and I was

Andrew Wilsonenabling instead I don't think I was but you're down about years I mean four years and many many many relapses oh at what point at what point has there

Celestebecome a distinction between enabling behavior and helping Behavior do you mean like as in accepting him back every time he relapsed as as like referring to

Celestethat as enabling yeah well I mean is it enabling um I don't know how I would answer that

Celestebecause every time he would come back it wasn't while he was like it wasn't at a time that he was relapsing every time he would come back it was

Celestealready when he was ready to get clean so I'm not sure if that would be considered enabling his addiction I mean I would understand because I I was

Celestealways there you know he he always had somebody there to come back to but I don't think so I don't think I could say

Brian Atlasthat I wonder if there's any data when it comes to dating there probably isn't who's more likely to

Malikdate drug ad drug addict women women I think in general men use drugs more than women do as like do they no I don't know

Malikthe statistics they women just use more legal drugs yeah that's what I was referring to when it comes to illegal drugs especially like in dealings and stuff it's a very dangerous atmosphere in general so you find more men doing

Malikthat than women anyway and the women who do do it it's because they have a boyfriend a brother a family member a best friend who's into that who gets the women into it generally ah so men are to blame okay all right well I mean also

Brian Atlasit's just like women are attracted to Bad Boys women are attracted to Bad Boys and I mean it sounded like you said he was also involved in some I might have stepped away some criminal activity or

Brian Atlassomething so H yeah women just seem to be attracted to what I view as Character defects and flaws in men not all women not all women but for example herophilus I don't know if we even brought that up

Brian Atlaswhen you were on the show last and I've mentioned it quite frequently in the well people really a lot of people are tuning out for this this particular conversation but um sorry uh

Brian Atlasno it's okay um but uh so hiphil women are attracted to men who are uh they're attracted to criminality and this is almost exclusively some something that you see

Brian Atlasin women as compared to men it's very rare in men but much more common in women I think it's not common in women in general that but I that is true well I think it has to do capacity for

Brian Atlasviolence so someone who's a criminal might may very well have more capacity for violence or to do things that could you know in some like dire situation if

Brian Atlasthey're more drawn to criminality they could conceivably better provide for children if they're willing to steal or cheat or lie maybe that's a stretch but I don't

Malikagree with that like I I know women uh I've known women in my life who have dated criminals and I've never understood the appeal and like like specifically um yeah that's me

Celeste/Madisonanyways uh let's get these chats out cuz there's quite a few um MADD if you can read did it there's no way the trick who looks like she blows the hor Horn of

Celeste/MadisonGand says she's a seven no effing way that's okay my boyfriend thinks I'm

Celeste/Madisonhot okay Manny from left to right Madison 8 heroin chick five oh Java 2 redheaded w three Joker AA four blue

Celeste/Madisonshirt chick five multicolored weirdo four Renaissance Fair chick nine who's who's not my words guys I just have to read this who's the ren get that's Kirby

Celeste/Madisonshe's the Renaissance Fair chick is this one of your viewers or something um better check those DM I'm going to have to give surfing a pass more of a cliff jumping guy it's that we're spreading

Celeste/Madisonsome good old freedom in Hell drivers has anyone given it a try and as far as braids go that one on the far end is a

Celeste/Madisonsmoke show and light blue is kind of a champ who's on the far end you it's

Celeste/Madisonyou it's always all right we have this one my dad was a hero Addie I know how she feels beat the out of me for not

Celeste/Madisonknowing math but to the Happy bat being a weed dealer prior to legalize is about the coolest dudes out there 24 body count for age 21 they just just didn't want to date cuz of

Brian Atlashe what his you have a 24 body count but they didn't want to date you height you're saying the girls would smash but they wouldn't date you is that what

Brian Atlasyou're saying uh okay thank thank you the official Prince Mercy buku for the Canadian 50 um all right let me get into some other notes oh okay we're gonna do a

Brian Atlassegment here going around the table does you consider yourself traditional correct yes traditional going around the

Brian Atlastable who else here considers themselves traditional not traditional not specifically Trad you got speak into the mic sorry I'm so sorry not

Maliatraditionally oh sorry spaced out um I think I am traditional when it comes to relationships like my end goal is to be a stay-at-home mom I would prefer my husband provide but I do have quite a

Maliapotty mouth and a dark sense of humor so maybe in some aspects a little bit more modern do you consider yourself a traditional woman overall um I think

Maliait's on a spectrum so maybe not fully but I think maybe more traditional than some I would say I'm completely traditional when it comes to relationships but as far as lifestyle I

Malikwant to work I want to be always providing for myself in addition to being with someone who's providing for my family but in a relationship sense um I'm traditional but in lifestyle I guess

Brian Atlasnot always want to be working for yourself yes I even if you meet a really wealthy guy who's like n just stay home pump out babies take care of the kids I would work for fun like if I didn't get I I would still work what about if you

Malikhave like seven sons I will take care of my children that'll be my priority and work and I will work in my free time in I don't watch movies and TV shows I work what are you going to

Brian Atlasdo I'm going to work I'm doing real estate right now I'm in school for Real Estate so as your say in this scenario your husband's like like well uh no you

Brian Atlasdon't need to be doing real estate I'm good I can provide oh he can provide then I'm still going to work because I enjoy work no he says no no he says no I

Malikdon't want you to work then I'm washing the dishes twice daily I'm going to be busy I have to be busy but you would accept like if a guy yeah and he says hey I don't want you to you don't want me working I I'll just work around

Malikthe house I guess I'll okay all right I'll deep clean the house every day instead once a week I guess I say like in most aspects yeah traditional 80% traditional okay yeah

Brian Atlassame but I traditional yeah um but I want to be fully Trad wife fully tra wife yeah so we're going to do a segment called traditional or not traditional

Brian Atlaswhat this is going to require is US pulling up all the girls Instagrams Nick if you can I should have maybe had to do that before uh we're going to pull up all their Instagrams and we're going to uh

Malikthose of them who said traditional we're going to see judging off of their Instagram are they traditional I've got no ass on my insta keep in mind I said 80% traditional by the way this is a

Maliksqueaker over here uh I should have we should have swapped it out but the chair your chair is a squeaker I'm sorry I'm I had an energy drink I have I have

Celeste/Madisona lot of energy I want to run so while Nick is doing that let me see okay on chats we're good let me just clear these out did you want

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