Elon Musk WATCHES Whatever?! Andrew Wilson! HEATED DEBATE With Liberal Feminist?! | Dating Talk #140

Date: 2024-03-04

Duration: 6h 43m

Guests

Brian Atlas

MMalia (DT140)>

MMalik (DT140)>

MMichaela (DT140)>

BBella (DT140)>

CCeleste (DT140)>

MMadison (DT182)>

AAndrew Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00TTS/Donations(audience)

SPEAKER_02Malik(guest)

SPEAKER_03Esme(guest)

SPEAKER_04Celeste(guest)

SPEAKER_05Bella(guest)

SPEAKER_06Malia(guest)

SPEAKER_07Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_08Media/Clips(audience)

SPEAKER_10Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_12Celeste/Madison(guest)

SPEAKER_13Michaela(guest)

SPEAKER_14JoJo(guest)

Key Moments

QuoteBrian Atlas opens show, noting Elon Musk replied to a Whatever clip tweet.

“welcome to the whatever dating Talk podcast... we had a little love this weekend we had Ellen musk reply to a tweet that had our video in it”

QuoteBrian shows the clip that got Elon Musk's reply: JoJo saying 'I don't think you can be sexist towards men and I don't think you can be racist towards white people'.

“I don't think you can be sexist towards men and I don't think you can be racist towards white people... Elon Musk responded... somebody shared that it got 8 million views”

QuoteAndrew Wilson introduces himself as host of The Crucible.

“my name is Andrew Wilson I am the host of The One and Only Crucible one of the fastest growing debate channels on the internet”

Key MomentMalia reveals she's been celibate for 1.5 years without specific reason, gets 20-30 Hinge likes/day but only accepts ~1.

“I've been celibate for a year and a half not for any particular reason... usually on hinge I'll wake up with like 20 or 30 [likes]... I only like match with one”

Key MomentRatings round begins: Brian asks everyone to self-rate looks on 1-10 scale.

“Stiffler is very curious to ask everyone to rate their looks on a scale of 1 to 10 starting with you going around the table”

QuoteAndrew Wilson sarcastically self-rates as a 10 on looks.

“I'm a 10 for sure explain why there you have it”

Key MomentBrian calls out JoJo's body count claim: she said body count doesn't matter but won't reveal it — implying it does matter.

“I think body count matters so I'm not going to reveal it for that reason... that question tends to be asked in response to women saying that they think body count doesn't matter... but then they have a quite a bit of hesitation when it comes to revealing their own body count”

Key MomentCeleste: story of 4-year on/off relationship with heroin addict begins. She met him at 21 when he claimed 2 years clean.

“you dated a heroin addict on and off for four years... there were more than five times on and off... he relapsed on four separate occasions I honestly couldn't tell you if it was four or more there were five I think maybe was five six”

Key MomentCeleste reveals she hid the heroin addict relationship from her family to protect his image in their eyes.

“they didn't for four years this was going on on and off where this guy was taking heroin and he never told your folks... no... I was not telling my parents to protect his image”

Key MomentJoJo argues women are oppressed in the US, citing Blizzard California lawsuit as example.

“a big one is the whole blizzard case with the lawsuit with California... the state of California sued blizzard because of the unequal treatment of women in the workplace... same exact jobs same exact positions and they were getting paid way less than the men”

Key MomentAndrew Wilson counters: Blizzard settled without admission of wrongdoing; filing a complaint doesn't prove guilt.

“you can't just put forward a complaint and say that because a complaint was made that that means that therefore complaint was true... they admitted no wrongdoing according to this settlement”

ControversyBrian reveals Google internal pay audit found they were overpaying women vs male counterparts, countering JoJo's pay gap argument.

“Google did a review an internal review and found that they were actually overpaying women uh compared to their male counterparts”

Key MomentJoJo cannot name a right that men have today that women do not. Brian presses this question.

“what right does a man have in this country that a woman does not today”

Key MomentAndrew Wilson argues selective service / male draft is the clearest example of male-specific oppression that feminists never advocate against.

“men can be pressed into selective service because nobody gives a about them... women can't... and yet they gripe on the opposite side about things that they consider to be oppressive to them when they will never have to make that ultimate sacrifice”

QuoteEsme leaves the show early before body count round concludes, thanks everyone.

“thank you for having me it was really nice to meet you guys... you weren't as scary as I thought you were going to be”

Key MomentAndrew Wilson uses gamble analogy to get Esme to concede that body count correlates with loyalty: 1 woman with 1 partner for 19 years vs 1 woman with 19 partners over 19 years — which would you gamble on for loyalty?

“if you had to gamble if you had to roll all of your dice on one which one would you say would be more likely to be more promiscuous... you're going to roll it on the person with the least body count which tells me that it matters”

QuoteEpisode wrap-up; Brian thanks Andrew Wilson and the panel.

“okay we're going to wrap up there guys long show long show... go subscribe to Andrew Wilson's The Crucible channel”

Topics Discussed

Show intro and Elon Musk tweet reaction

Brian introduces the show from Santa Barbara. Notes Elon Musk replied to a Whatever clip tweet (got 8M views). Also mentions Trace Cyrus (Metro Station) shared the channel. Andrew Wilson joins remotely.

Guest introductions and relationship status

All guests introduce themselves (name, age, location, occupation). Go around table on relationship status and longest relationships. JoJo: single 2yr, 1 relationship 4yr. Esme: divorced. Malia: single 2.5yr, celibate 1.5yr. Malik: single 2.5yr. Michaela: in relationship 2.5yr. Bella: in relationship since Oct. Celeste: in relationship since Oct, longest was on/off 4yr. Madison: in relationship 1.5yr. Andrew Wilson: married 10+ years.

Dating apps and Malia's dating experience

Discussion of dating app experiences. Malia: gets 20-30 Hinge likes/day but only matches ~1; was banned from apps for not responding; had 1 date in 4 months; prefers nerdy/gamer types. JoJo: only relationship was long-distance. Brian probes Malia on why she doesn't pursue dates.

Hypergamy and women dating up

Andrew Wilson and Brian argue that women hypergamously seek men with more resources. JoJo and others debate whether this is a generational trend. Discussion on whether women's financial independence is changing the dynamic. Andrew cites that hypergamy seems to be increasing not decreasing.

Should women date up: Andrew Wilson scenario

Andrew Wilson presents scenario: 25-year-old man choosing between hot 21-year-old and established 27-year-old. Discussion on what men vs women prioritize in partner selection. Brian cites statistics on men preferring beauty and motherly qualities; women preferring security and resources.

Dating patterns and relationship timelines

JoJo discusses her long-distance relationship. Esme discusses her marriage at 18, divorce at 28, and post-separation hookup culture experience. Discussion of modern dating apps and communication.

Partner preferences: looks, dating apps, nerdy guys

Brian asks each guest what they're looking for. Malia: nerdy/gamer guys, engineers, anime nerds. Brian notes Malia gets many matches but rarely accepts. Discussion of dating app rejection asymmetry between men and women (Hinge: 20-30 likes/day vs 1 match accepted).

Ratings round: self-rate looks 1-10

Brian asks guests to rate their looks. Malia: 6. Malik: 7. Andrew Wilson: sarcastically 10. JoJo: implied ~7 range. Celeste: ~7. Bella: 6.

Celeste: dating a heroin addict for 4 years

Brian addresses notes on Celeste's on/off 4-year relationship with a heroin addict. He relapsed 5-6 times; each relapse ended the 'on' phase. She never ended it — always his ghosting. Met when she was 21, he was 24 and claimed 2 years clean. She stayed because she saw more than the addiction. Hid relationship from family to protect his image. Others discuss rescuer/fixer mentality.

Feminism definition debate

Brian and Andrew argue feminism is female supremacy, not equality. Malik argues feminism is about equality; Brian says that's egalitarianism. Andrew distinguishes classic liberalism from feminism. Quick round: JoJo identifies as feminist (equity-based); others mostly do not. Malik says he is egalitarian.

Are women oppressed in the US: JoJo vs Andrew Wilson

JoJo argues women are oppressed, cites Blizzard California lawsuit (equal pay). Andrew and Brian challenge this: complaint not proof of guilt; settlement without admission of wrongdoing. Brian cites Google internal review found they were overpaying women. Debate on whether inequity = oppression. JoJo cannot name a right men have that women don't (in contemporary US).

Traditional vs feminist panel self-identification

Quick round: do you identify as feminist? JoJo: yes (equity definition). Others: no. Malik: egalitarian. Andrew declares if guests don't identify as feminist, they can be assessed by whether they're traditional.

Women in corporate settings and workplace oppression

JoJo brings Blizzard case again. Brian introduces Google's internal audit finding women were overpaid. Andrew and Brian challenge whether corporate incidents prove systemic oppression. 1970s sex work policing example from JoJo about prostitutes vs pimps.

WWII civilian death casualty statistics video

Brian or Andrew plays WWII casualty documentary video. Andrew argues men were primary victims even counting civilians, due to massacres targeting men. JoJo pushes back. Debate on whether military casualties vs civilian casualties shift the picture.

Selective Service and men's draft: is it oppression

Extended debate: Brian and Andrew argue men being subject to selective service while women are exempt is a form of male oppression. JoJo disputes this framing. Andrew: men can be pressed into service because society does not value them. Malik raises conscription as a counterpoint.

Esme departure and final discussion

Esme thanks the panel and leaves early (~6:10) before body count discussion concludes (3-hour drive home). Andrew compliments her articulation. Remaining panel continues discussion on body count, promiscuity, and relationship fitness.

Promiscuity, body count, and pair bonding

Going around the table on whether body count matters. Results: Celeste/Madison: 8 and 7. Bella/others: 5-6 range. JoJo: declined specific number, range above 30. Esme: doesn't care personally about body count. Andrew uses gamble analogy to get Esme to concede body count correlates with loyalty. Esme concedes gamble point but maintains she would not choose partner by body count alone.

Wrap-up and outro

Brian closes the show. Thanks Andrew Wilson and the panel. Plugs The Crucible channel. Madison reads TTS. Brian raids a WoW streamer on Twitch.

Transcript

Page 6 of 8

JoJobut I never said anything about not being oppressed outside of the us too I like I think there is oppression in the US as well yeah let's talk about the US

JoJoI think for example police and uh women uh there's cases where like let's say in New York City

TTS/Donationsand you're going to play noise and the I think it was the 1970s there was a lot of octopus Tetro donated $100 Jojo I am happy that you can take

TTS/Donationsthe side of the unpopular opinion on this podcast it takes guts and takes knowledge I'm literally spending $300 to

Brian Atlassay this now you're just wrong Praise Jesus amen prise the Lord what uh you were about to say something about cops in the 19

JoJowomen who were prostitutes in the 1970s were getting arrested and thrown in jail and the The Pimps because of being men were a lot of times not

Andrew Wilsonpersecuted okay and gay marriage wasn't legal until 2012 how is that relevant you guys want I'm just exciting general knowledge in the

Andrew Wilson1970s in the 1970s PR grounded up and they just were they were just a little nice to the pimp 201 forward uh at in the 20 where they were forced

JoJointo sex work by like these men these pimps and it was just a general again another I know you guys love it another study that I read about it's what what

Brian Atlasright does a man have in this country that a woman does not today how many years ago was 1970 by the way quick 1970 how many how many almost 40 years yeah

JoJojust 1970 how how many years ago years ago is that what you wanted 54 but oh I said 70s I don't know what year of uh actually it's 54 50ish I mean

Brian Atlastruthfully the only thing that I can think of that's and I'm when we're talking about rights the only thing I can think of is and this isn't the case there's some jurisdictions where this is

Brian Atlasallowed but men can go topless they can oh that's a good one without a shirt it really isn't though because that's like even women don't want to walk around topless

Malikand there's some jurisdictions where you can go topless but like you know is that like oppressive look I'm all for free the titties sign me up all men are for it's

Malikthe women who don't want to like I personally would never want to do that I don't feel oppressed by having to dress properly MH you sure um how about this

JoJomen are more oppressed than women yeah I don't you want you want to bite on that one you're really trying to you're in the cast line here huh oh man I feel

Brian Atlaslike there's yeah okay uh sure why do you say that well uh I mean you're talking about like rights and stuff you know so I can

Brian Atlasthink of three examples of things that strictly impact men that don't really impact women so first off uh and this is immediately upon birth why I would think

Brian Atlasmen are more oppressed than women so upon birth the vast majority of men in this country are uh for uh get circumcised I which I view as a child

Brian Atlasgenital mutilation it's done without their consent I am against it women are not having their lady bits

Brian Atlasuh circumcised in this country on birth uh so that's a pretty uh major uh issue that I view that impacts that that's

Brian Atlasimmediately upon birth men are treated unequally to women uh the next is forced military conscription and I've said this before I'll say it again if we were to

Brian Atlascombine and add up all of women's Collective grievances throughout all of all time all the Grievances could not no right to vote you apparently you

Brian Atlascouldn't there's something about bank accounts couldn't have a bank account uh you know inequality in the workplace etc etc um unfair gender expectations you

Brian Atlasknow whatever put put them all together compare them to forced military conscription I would argue that is a bigger grievance than all of women's

Brian AtlasCollective grievances combined so circumcisions and draft no just just uh forced military conscription that's a bigger grievance a

Brian Atlasbigger gender grievance than all of women Collective Grievances and what's your third no I'm I mean I'm kind of veering off here and just saying like whatever whatever the feminists want to say is a is a terrible grievance upon

Brian Atlaswomen I'm coming and saying well actually this one sole grievance experienced nearly exclusively by men is worse than all of your grievances combined together no it's experienced

Brian Atlasjust exclusively by men I mean they're they're going to argue well in World War II there was a Soviet sniper force of thousand women yeah know that would be the Soviet though so here in the United

Brian AtlasStates totally agree with well I mean I was even just arguing like worldwide when it came to military conscription almost all battles dating back thousands of years it's men have been forced to go to war and die and women

Brian Atlashaven't and that that is a bigger grievance and you know what I'll even say uh just World War I and World War II The Suffering that men exclusively

Brian Atlasendured uh in Warfare is a bigger grievance in all of women's historical Collective grievances combined that's crazy how's that how's that crazy you don't think d That's

Brian Atlascrazy give me here give me an example I'll I'll allow you to give me one example that's worse than forced military conscription that that women in

TTS/DonationsWorld War II give me military conscription give me one example octopus Tetro donated $100 Brian look to the scriptures of Christ and you will see the need of

TTS/Donationscircumcision when we look at what God himself wants from us it's necessary Malik you're from a Muslim culture but look to Jesus I mean Mal Malik came from

MalikOrthodox Christianity if I remember correctly yes I I'm mixed I'm I'm also Armenian and I grew up with Armenian culture and Armenia was the first Christian Nation so I'm Christian uh I I mean I don't I don't

Andrew Wilsonactually know what the Christian position is on circumcision I don't know any if you're able to weigh in on this but it's mixed there's a there's been a

Andrew Wilsonbig fight about it especially over the last 100 years so I'm not going to I'm not going to dive too much into that you would need somebody who had more Nuance of church Affairs than me when it comes to circumcision but yeah there's a big

Brian Atlasfight about it even now yeah I mean it occurs to me though if you take a secular look at circumcision you you remove the religious component I mean on its own it occurs to me that it's a

Brian Atlasrather barbaric practice know but bringing it back to you okay State one grievance one gendered grievance that women have experienced that's worse than forced

Brian Atlasmilitary conscription I mean I guess the outcomes of going to war all the outcomes of like what happens with women and like cities that are invaded so so Hillary Clinton

Brian Atlasin the '90s said something along the lines of women are the primary Vic I think she said wh women and children are the primary victims of war do you agree

Brian Atlasor disagree with that I think we're everyone's a victim of War so no but every everyone's a Vic but do you agree that women women are the primary victims

Brian Atlasof war no who are the primary victims of war I think all the human species is but the no who are the primary victims of war I have to name a man or a woman

Andrew Wilsonthat's my a group well so let me try to frame it better make it a little easier if you had to choose which sex that's what I just asked if you had to choose which sex

Andrew Wilsonwould you say it's men or women who were primarily affected by Warfare this is crazy

Brian Atlasum it's not crazy you letter answer good I'll say women women women wait so and why why would you say that put and put

Brian Atlaswomen are what put it in your own words women are what a ma the main victim of War wait you didn't get what

MalikNick you did you didn't speak that women are the main victim of War why how this is why people shouldn't

Brian Atlasgo to get a master's degree after the first four years so why I think Andrew is asking why are women the primary victims of war well in the case I'm thinking of

JoJoWorld War II and yeah World War II sure let's use World War II okay um like in Asia for example you you have men who who can fight they are they have weapons

JoJothey're able to protect themselves let's say yes outcome of War a lot of people die in both sides there's a lot of cases where nothing can happen like a nuke for

JoJoexample or a bomb there's a lot of cases where I'm not saying this is generalized for everything but they had competitions where they

JoJowould go in into Villages and award the women kill them after this happened to like children in in front of the mothers things like that

Brian Atlaswhich is okay so let's assume that's true right you're talking about you're talking about Nan King well it didn't just Happ it occurred yeah I thought was talking about Vietnam but it happened in

Brian Atlasthe Philippines look yes but in war but in yes okay let's say we let's just agree with you yes in war rape occurs rape is terrible it occurs so your

Brian Atlasposition is because rape occurs in war women are the primary victims of war well I'm not saying that that is like the only let's say a 100,000 women let's just I'm making up a number here I don't

Brian Atlasknow what the truth is let's say during World War III 100,000 women were raped and 20 million men were killed in World War II who's the primary victim of war in

JoJoWorld War men dying in World War II it's also women dying they aren't just getting are forced to put their life on the line what P you mean the W are are you talking

Brian Atlasabout civilian casualties or civilians of course okay but now let's add on the 20 million military deaths I might have my numbers wrong a little bit here but

Brian Atlasbut um so let's assume military deaths are like nearly exclusively male like

Brian Atlas99.99% male okay okay so you have 20 million male military deaths versus uh there's a let's exclude civilian populations

Brian Atlasbecause there's male civilian populations too let's just say only women are getting raped right 100,000 women get uh sa

Brian Atlaswho is the primary victim of war in the case you just described so let's say there's 20 million male deaths Soldier uh military deaths and then there's

Brian Atlas100,000 women who are ESS civilians okay who's the primary victim of war in that case men okay so you've just made a case

Andrew Wilsonfor if you're cutting out civilian casualties to prove this point okay yeah well but he can especially since you're specifically looking at the United

Andrew WilsonStates so for instance of the 292,000 members of the US military who were killed by enemy fire 16 of them total

Andrew Wilsonwere female 16 from the United States total total 16 from the United States for the all of

Andrew WilsonWorld War II all of it y so who would you say then was the worst victim of War for at least for the

Andrew WilsonUnited States he just like had to choose that's yeah the men the men now if we were to go stat by stat Nation by Nation you're going to find something very

Andrew Wilsonsimilar to this because women you may not know this are actually usually protected in Warfare conditions now it is true that the Communists did horrible

Andrew Wilsonthings to their own population the populations that they conquered that is true they did the Russians especially I mean they went through Berlin did hor horrific things to the women but still predominantly the ones

Andrew Wilsonwho suffered the most in even the European nations were men I mean c the just the casualty rates alone as Brian is indicating were overwhelmingly disproportionate

Andrew Wilsonso knowing this knowing this new information did did you maybe want to change your answer what's the casualty rates on both on which well female and

Andrew Wilsondid you pull it up female and you mean female soldiers no I'm saying female civilians civilians yeah if you want to know the disproportionate rate between the two we

Andrew Wilsoncan look those stats up for you as well but under the assumption for a second that it is true that they were disproportionately male because they were would you then still concede or

JoJowould you say no women are still the victims the primary victims I I never even like agreed with that original point you said you have to choose one I said I think all humans are victims of

Andrew Wilsonwar no then when you modified your answer you said women though you said no I modified it because you made me modify you said choose men or women I did was I said if you had to choose between one

Andrew Wilsonsex or the other yes which would you choose you said women so we're we're obviously asking that question so we can test your logic as to why you would pick women I chose that answer and I said

JoJothis is because of what goes on in war the invasion of like cities and things like that where women will get attacked

Andrew Wilsons they will get sa but but sometimes up to 1/3 to 2/3 of the entire civilian population of men are put to the sword and women usually don't have to deal

Andrew Wilsonwith that problem they get carried off as uh basically trophies and uh and they get to live and the men put on spikes

Andrew Wilsonthat's what happens allow them to live sometimes it's sometimes that's true but most of the time it's not true most of the time when you're looking at the

Andrew Wilsondisproportionate rate of men versus women who are butchered in these massacres it's still generally men and the reason for that is because they don't want to leave an enemy at their

Andrew Wilsonback of possibly capable able-bodied uh soldiers who could come after them that's why that occurs that

JoJoway I saying in War I think that what goes on with when they invade certain cities and

JoJoVillages things like that I think not being able to defend yourself is very scary right I think that makes them can't defend themselves either if

Andrew Wilsonit's a civilian population yeah of course but good thing we're in the US and and so the men are the ones though that are usually gathered up and systematically exterminated first it is

Andrew Wilsontrue that women do have to experience things like sa and things like this but generally many many many times more of them are allowed to live also you brought up defending

Brian Atlasyourself but earlier you said you're against guns wait don't derail don't derail wait so again so who's the primary victim of War oh my

Brian Atlasgosh can I say all humans again no you have to you have to pick I guess we'll pick women we haven't made a convincing enough case

Brian Atlasto change your mind at all on this I have a video let's pull up a video really quick Nick can you go to the private chat um before you pull it up let me just read two chats here Maddie can you read this

Celeste/Madisonone get get it pulled up though if you can want smell the chair now but I know she's not down I will offer a ring land with the house and bearing my seed any thoughts on Patrice o' saying men are better than women

Brian AtlasI didn't say that that was Patrice O'Neil who said that I think we're all special yeah we're all special we all have our strengths Patrice O'Neal had some hot

Celeste/Madisontakes uh we have this one Celeste had and only fans as vanity at its peak D tits

Celeste/MadisonPeak was conservative but doesn't seem very conservative to me does she you have natural tit though wow you have no

Celeste/Madisonthat's is it guy okay who is that not sure okay last one Maddie read this one make woman register for draft just because you are drafted does not

Brian Atlasmean Frontline service there is more support roles than combat roles I'd agree to that uh Nick why don't you pull up the video this is super related um you can go ahead and play

Media/Clipsit we we'll only watch a little bit of it World War II my God the average lifespan of an American is 80 years and an

Media/Clips80-year-old today Nick can you put us in the corner World War Corner four when it began a soldier who saw battle would have to be in his late 80s at least

Media/Clipstoday generals political leaders the decision makers of the war few are still with us louder and over the past few decades we've seen author and filmmakers

Media/Clipsrush to capture stories from survivors louder before this connection of memory is

Media/Clipslost oh this project is not about individual War Stories and it's not about survivors we're going to tally up the

Media/Clipstens of millions of people whose lives are cut short by the war and see how these numbers stack up to other Wars in history including Trends in recent

Media/Clips[Music] we'll be counting soldiers and civilians separately each of these figures represents 1,000 people who died civilians were all can you lower it

Media/Clipsa little whereas military deaths were almost entirely men almost the average age was about 23 in most battles for every 1,000 so soldiers killed there are more than a

Media/Clipsthousand who were injured the word casualty can be confusing because in military speak it often includes both deaths and injuries and anything else that takes a soldier out of service here

Media/Clipswe're just counting the deaths and we'll begin with American

Media/Clips[Music] soldiers one of those over 400,000

Media/Clipsdied amen amen most of the deaths occurred in the European theater fighting the Nazis and about a quarter were in the Pacific fighting the

Media/ClipsJapanese when you put them on the timeline you see that casualties were the heaviest at the end of the war The War Began on September 1st 1939 but the US wasn't willing to join

Media/Clipsthe fight until Pearl Harbor 2 years us the deaths increased drastically on D day when the Allies invaded Norm one of the most tragic moments of the

Media/Clipswar was on D-Day at Omaha Beach where 2500 Americans fell male privilege by the way so about the same number of US soldiers died on

Media/Clipsthis single Beach Landing as the entire 13 years of the recent war in [Music] Afghanistan the bloodiest battle in the

Media/ClipsPacific was okanawa which lasted 82 days during which 12,500 Americans

Media/Clipsdied about 5,000 of these deaths were at Sea from kamakazi

Media/Clipsattacks now let's look at some other countries starting with

Media/ClipsEurope Germany started World War II when it invaded Poland Poland ultimately lost 200,000 soldiers in the war most died after the invasion while

Media/Clipsthe country was occupied by Germany and the Soviet

Media/ClipsUnion Germany meanwhile lost just 16,000 in the invasion of Poland the Nazis went on to invade and Conquer other countries including Denmark Belgium the Netherlands France

Media/ClipsGreece and Yugoslavia France surrendered but after losing 92,000 soldiers in the Battle of France over 200,000 ultimately fell which includes deaths in P camps French

Media/Clipscolonies and other fighting Yugoslavia suffered almost half a million military deaths the initial Invasion brought relatively few casualties on both sides but the deaths mounted under Nazi occupation due to

Media/ClipsGuerilla fighting civil conflict and mass

Media/Clipsexecutions the Nazi invasions were Swift with relatively few German losses even the Nazi commanders expressed surprise at their success and then we have the United Kingdom in the United States who were

Media/Clipsnot invaded But took the fight to the Nazis Britain lost about the same number of soldiers as the US which includes the British colonies Germany lost about half a million soldiers fighting the US and

Media/ClipsBritain in what is known as the Western Front which took place in France and Belgium other

Media/Clipsside but most Nazi soldiers died in the Eastern Front Germany's unsuccessful invasion of the Soviet Union the numbers are staggering each one of those the most

Media/Clipsfamous battle of the Eastern front and perhaps the turning point of the European war was Stalingrad the German sixth Army successfully took Stalingrad but then got surrounded by the Soviets and cut off from food and ammunition

Media/Clipshalf a million Nazis would ultimately die in Stalingrad another 100,000 were taken prisoner of which 6,000 would ever return PS had a low survival rate

JoJothroughout World War II and it was particularly Grim in the East you can pause it when you include these P all right all right uh you want to revise your answer maybe so great it didn't it

JoJocut out the civilians immediately though to the talking about civilians but okay it also said all those military casualties were almost exclusively men

JoJoyes in soldiers yeah I never said it's not so men are disposable is what you're saying no why would I say

Brian Atlasthat okay so what if I told you there were I don't know how to explain this um I thought that would have been helpful

Brian Atlasto show you to show you the scale of the military deaths that were experienced exclusively by men as it stated in the

JoJovideo that was not convincing to you at all so your position is still women are the primary victims of war I thought you pulled up the video so

JoJoyou can showed me how many civilian deaths there are as well I thought that's the was the point of the video okay here I'll Google it so uh let's

TTS/Donationssee Brian Gone full cook donated $100 you filter this your fake being essays is way worse often women raise

TTS/Donationstheor as child a constant reminder Brian would you rather be Australian dollar out or die be oh yeah yeah yeah

JoJo[Laughter] um I would rather I mean this is a well come on I would rather live no I'd rather live okay yeah well there are

Brian Atlassome people it's for it's hard for them to live after it sure I'm not saying it's being Ed is a terrible thing women can be victim being Ed is a terrible thing but I would rather let's I'm

Brian Atlascurious what the chat thinks Nick can you pull up the chat I don't want to see the chat I chat the same scenario as you

Brian Atlascan oh it's moving would you rather be so your choice is live live or be ESS live or be ESS I'd rather live and be sa

Brian Atlasthan just or have the choice of death live I'd rather live like it would obviously suck I would maybe have trauma but I

Brian Atlaswould get you know I would try to move on with my life yeah so yeah I mean I'm not saying look essay is terrible but so your your argument wait

Andrew Wilsonhang on hang on hang on hang on what what what if it was essayed by a woman though that's actually does add an interesting well I I mean I would still

Brian Atlasrather live isting I would still no but it's interesting because his thing was well you're essayed by someone of your same sex mhm so that kind of kind of but so

Andrew Wilsonthat so that it that changes the Spectrum around doesn't it so like I I would take death before I took the essay by a male but oh would not take that before I took the essay by the female

Malikright damn this is getting deep really deep well I I think wait Andrew you would rather die yes I mean look it ain't ideal but I want to keep on living

Andrew Wilsonno I get it I understand you know what I mean there's no right answer to the question but Andrew you have kids but Andrew you have kids so like re

Andrew Wilsonis that your genuine answer sad that they're going to have to be orphans you know I'm sorry if I had to choose that's it but the thing is though is that if

Andrew Wilsonyou add in the dynamic of if it's sa by a woman wouldn't that be far more preferable and so then you add between these cheeks well okay so so

Brian Atlaswait Andrew let let me double down on this okay so Hulk Hogan as a woman oh man or like trans Megan

Andrew WilsonFox is I I would I think I could deal with the uh whatever female it doesn't matter as long as it's an actual female I think I could deal with it but no I

Andrew Wilsondon't think hul Hogan female yeah I think I think I think if it's uh you know the question of give me penis or give me death it's Tak the death note on this one

Brian AtlasI'm still living I'm living in either so okay your position is uh is what again I you want me to repeat it for yeah why not women were the primary are are women

JoJothe primary victims primary victims I don't agree with that wording but yes anybody agree are women the primary they're not going to agree they might you never know oh I could hear I'd like

Brian Atlasour Chilean do you um do you want to weigh in on this

Brian Atlasno no see okay all right um oh you had something no M Malik Malik no I I don't

Brian Atlasokay uh let's do a couple chats then I don't know if we're going to be able to convince her Andrew I don't know if you had any further back and forth on the war thing women are the primary victims

Andrew Wilsonof war according to her yeah well crazy to me she she's kind of she's kind of revised her answers a little bit so let's let's try to take the charitable approach

TTS/Donationsand hold on cfus donated $100 listen Brian I get your point about Battlefield deaths but to some extent you are still expressing some agency in

TTS/Donationsthe whole ordeal men wake up every day to protect and provide for their family um I'm not really sure I understand the argument I think he's saying it's like

TTS/Donationsif that's the argument it's like the duty right the duty if you're on the side of traditional and Brian full cook donated

TTS/Donations$100 Brian essay by man it's such an intrusion for a women by a man and you must raise the attacker's child yeah

JoJoliving is still preferable over uh living is always going to be more preferable uh what about if they attacked your children and did stuff to

Andrew Wilsonyour children and then let you live what conf it's like well I mean but you're they're also doing that to a man's child and then let let them live right so what I don't understand the

Andrew Wilsonargument the argument is well what if they did this to our kids it's like well it's our kids right my kids too so then wouldn't the man also have to deal with

Brian Atlasthe same trauma he I mean he wouldn't be able to witness it in person really quick I just want to address for this really quick I I think uh just

Brian Atlasbecause men have an instinct to provide and protect for their family uh doesn't mean like for example Vietnam is not

Brian Atlasviewed as like a righteous War uh historically or in current day uh so a man who got drafted to for example Vietnam you can perhaps make the case

Brian Atlasthat World War II was a bit more righteous um but

Brian Atlasa man who was drafted to go to Vietnam uh like what were we doing in

Andrew WilsonVietnam I don't know like can I well we were busy getting netted in by the Gulf of tonan incident which turned out to be a complete and total fraud but anyway that aside but I

Brian Atlasyou know there was no when it came to Vietnam it's like what are we doing there yeah it's their

Andrew Wilsonit's their internal conflict I but there's like this moves it back to the point though here so I'm trying going to try to do the most charitable thing that I can do let's go and try to see try to

Andrew Wilsonsee it from your perspective so if the perspective is that women are more oppressed during war than men are you would agree with me that women are not

Andrew Wilsongoing to be the ones fighting the actual War so the the ramifications of this are going to be situational they're going to be based on things like food

Andrew Wilsonpossibilities of uh essay things like this not direct death generally generally yeah yeah generally so then the question does come

Andrew Wilsondown to what Brian is asking which is is it preferable for a woman or a man to be sa or for the life to be taken this does

Andrew Wilsonbecome then the pertinent question in the hypothetical so the question to you is it which one do you think is preferable for most people I have no

Andrew Wilsonidea okay none you think that if most people had to choose between SA or or death that they would choose death your entire point is based on sa being worse than death right well I wasn't saying no

JoJothat that's not my point at all I think essay is a part of war and part of what happens to women but there's other things that also happen to women I also well what are worse what are worse things that happen to women witnessing

JoJoyour sometimes the mental witnessing your some things like that happen to your family members as well how would that be worse than men who are witnessing their best friends getting their faces blown off in a war can I they're getting drafted with their best

Maliafriends oh my God sometimes yes and if not no like they're going on the battlefield with their buddies they choosing they might become friends a lot of people join the military together field with so the the question is is how

Andrew Wilsonis that less traumatic than watching the men around you getting mowed down by machine guns I mean and you also have to understand too like because you made the counterargument of you know if it was

TTS/Donationsyour child Christen at $100 Andrew why would you mention the Gulf of tonin I guarantee you that the girls think that the Gulf of Tonkin is a

Andrew Wilsoncocktail oh also last I don't think so I think Malik knows what it is you know what it is right Malik sure sure oh just the last thing you have no idea do you m you

Malikknow I was going to give you credit and then he ruined everything I I I I believe I do but I I don't want to guess for sake of sounding like an idiot if I'm wrong also just really quick just on the

Brian Atlassisifus thing him saying men wake up every day to protect and provide again like I mentioned Vietnam War also the Iraq War you know you've got the military industrial complex SAS energy

TTS/Donationsdonated $100 civilian men are are the primary targets from an invading Army the first and most likely to be dispatched because they are most capable of violent resistance essay happens but is

Andrew Wilsonminuscule in comparison that is correct so uh this is an overarching historical theme as well that generally occupied Nations the first thing that is done is either the

Andrew Wilsonyoung men are compressed into service of the occupier enslaved in service of the occupier or outright exterminated the reason for this is because it eliminates

Andrew Wilsonresistance of the people who can resist generally women are not exterminated but are carried off instead as trophies or um you know some some other thing

Andrew Wilsonhappens uh but generally they're they're not they're not taken out it's usually young men who are taken

Brian Atlasout okay here in this in this scenario let's say that in a military conflict not using any specific spefic one in a

Brian Atlasmilitary conflict 20 million men die in the conflict and 1 million women are ID which is worse 20 million

Brian Atlasdying okay so let's just assume that that's the case for all World War I and World War II those are the stats uh so we assuming yes you think it's higher I

Andrew Wilsondon't know but I not I'm not talking about essay and just essay I'm not I'm talking about death as well I'm talking about all of that it's all yeah but all so all of these conditions though are shared except this one condition

Andrew Wilsongenerally so almost every condition that you're talking about is a shared condition starvation would be a shared condition of the populace um if you're talking about watching loved ones die that would be a shared condition of the

Andrew Wilsonpopulace all of these would be shared conditions with the exception of this one thing which is sa that's why we're narrowing in on it because anything that you would attribute to a thing bad happening to a female population would

Bellabe be the same exact bad thing that would be happening to the men of that population as well I mean but wouldn't it kind of somewhat be considered shared because

Bellait's like the point I was trying to make is that um in her argument she was saying that in the sense of children being a part of that group um the men wouldn't be there to witness it so it

Andrew Wilsonwouldn't be as harsh on them as it would be for the women and the children witness well it could be worse actually imagine you're in combat imagine if you're in combat and you get a letter that says hey your children were

Andrew Wilsonslaughtered by the enemy and you're not even there because you were in the front lines I think that in some ways that might be even be worse that was the point I was trying to make is that you know coming home is like if you get the

Bellachance to come home to find out you know your family's gone whether it be mother wife sister children whoever you know would that entail a worse response and

Bellamake that more more of a reasonable victimhood than this essay

Andrew Wilsonitself that's just hot take well I don't know there's not with what you're talking about here there's not a right or wrong answer

Andrew Wilsonthere is right you know what I mean at at least in this particular instance but there is a right answer I think when it comes to death versus sa and warfare and

Andrew Wilsonwho's targeted and who's affected more and it's very clear that men are affected far more by Warfare between nations than women are women are the protected class and so are children

Andrew Wilsonthat's why men go to do the fighting and that's why generally they do it away from their homelands because they want to protect the women if their Homeland is occupied It's usually the young men who get put to the sword and not the

Andrew Wilsonwomen who instead are considered trophies there's a reason why uh you know when vikings conquered different areas they put them into the sword and took the women with them the women got to

JoJolive are women the primary victims of forcibly they got to live under the capture of new people in that case scenario yeah but it wouldn't that be

JoJobetter than the alternative of death that's the question that's more of again it's that would depend on your own mentality of like what you define living is let's remove all hypothetical

Brian Atlasscenarios let's just look at World War II I don't know the extent of your knowledge on World War II but whatever you know you know that there's been significant military casualties and it's

Brian Atlasover 20 million they're all men given given that you know that in World War II who would you say was the primary victim

JoJoof war men or women of the US men no no no no no no just in global globally based off of what I know from World War II MH

Brian Atlaswell I I can't it's just I don't know any of the statistics around it I said women ini women okay what about World War

Brian AtlasWorld War I who's the primary victim of war in World War I I'll just stick with women women how about just all war if we just add up all

JoJothe war the wars together who's the primary victim of war in general I don't think either gender should be who's more

JoJovictimized I think in war everyone's a victim so I don't even but who's someone how's it work who is the primary victim that the question of War that's the question can can I ask hold on no no no

Andrew Wilsonhold on go ahead thank of it for me your Progressive values of intersectionality during Warfare right just think of it as intersectionality during Warfare and then you can determine who's the most

Andrew Wilsonoppressed based on all sorts of contributing factors up to find which sex is the most oppressed during war during

Brian Atlaswar who is the primary victim I said women I'm gonna stick with women Glo globally throughout all time who is the

JoJoprimary victim of war men or women I'm going to say women okay why okay and it's based off all the points I already made so let's say

Malikif I I mean I don't even no C can I bring up a similar example so if if someone was if there's a murder case okay forget about war if

Maliksomeone's murdered all right and just say the same person who murdered that man he had a girlfriend and a kid back at home and now they're single and she's a single mom because her boyfriend her

Malikhusband was just murdered who's the victim in that scenario in the scenario of that that someone got murdered and now there's a single mom raising a kid alone that's

Brian Atlasactually good and I can't say I can't say the victim who's the victim I think I think they're both victims no no no no no hold okay so your if I have this right your question to

Brian Atlasher is and I so okay you have do you have a brother yes okay your brother gets murdered wow who's the primary victim of him being

Brian Atlasmurdered my brother is that your answer or are you asking a question my brother is your brother is the primary victim it's not your but you're also a victim but you're yeah I think my family members are also victim what if

Andrew Wilsonyou let me ask you a question but but the primary victim is your brother why would your brother be the primary victim let's say you even witnessed the murder

JoJowho is the primary victim I'm confused about this point how it correlates to the last it's kind of related but hold on so okay you witness your brother being murdered who's the primary

JoJovictim my brother he's yeah but you witnessed it I assume it was traumatic of course it was and I'm a victim and I have to live on being a

Andrew Wilsonvictim but you had you well which was preferable like from the standpoint of view ifive isn't it preferable that you're

JoJostill alive in this instance um so which one's more preferred witnessing I guess yes depends yes depends if I can Natalia thank you

Brian Atlasfor that was actually a very good that was a very good way to frame itly that by like a couple million look I don't know if we're going to be able to convince her boys I think she's a tough

Esmeone I want you who's driving back cuz I know it's you we're not going to make it done wait you I driving together oh you guys all dve I'm driving by myself I

Brian Atlasdon't know her oh no I'm you can come if you want you you you guys are friends right you who's driving oh her I was going to say maybe one of you drive and then I think this is on Netflix have her watch All

Brian AtlasQuiet on the Western Front while driving back and then she can after seeing the barbarism and brutality of

Brian AtlasWar maybe you know you might think oh you know maybe it was the men who had it a little rougher Saving Private Ryan watch the first of Saving Private Ryan that's a

Andrew Wilsongood one but the whole allite on the Western Front movie on Netflix very good understand that women were riveting screws into pieces of sheep and so it's

Andrew Wilsonequal it's I mean you can just you can see that riveting screws into sheet metal and dealing with bloody wounds is the same as storming the beaches of Normandy now that might seem absurd to

Andrew Wilsonthe average man who's out there listening but you know who cares it's really just it's how we feel you know and things that give you the ick how we feel that's how we're going to do Society I'm shocked this is coming

Esmefrom you as well because you said you rather die than be R wed Yeah by my own sex yeah so you prefer a nice beefy wom

Andrew Wilsonhe finds he does he would rather die than be violated I think between men in essay and women in essay there's a distinction to be made under preference and in this particular condition I'm not

Andrew Wilsoneven sure most men would agree with me it's just my preference is that I would rather take the bullet than that all right a woman's bullet than a man's

Brian Atlasbullet I I have a question for you what's your how do you say your name again was your first Jojo Jojo how many women do you think of had

Brian Atlastrench foot oh my God I you know trench foot what about C you know like mustard gas you know World War I just a little

Brian Atlasyou know nine months in in the trenches a little nine months just a little casual N9 months in the trenches little mustard gas you know a little trench

Brian Atlasfoot you know how many women did you say died in World War Two like 15 there were no uh there were no I I feel like I read

Brian Atlasthere was some Russian or Soviet or no no wait that was there was uh well I know in World War II there was like a small group of Soviet uh Soldier female

Brian Atlassoldiers but there might have been a really small something in World War I but that amount she's like that JoJo all of your points are but the women were sad but

Malikhow' the women feel the men are dead they don't even get the right to feel they're dead dead yes the woman felt the woman felt in men like

Maliktrauma oh my God the woman felt the men's trauma watching horrible things happen to their children or themselves but the men are dead they don't even get the opportunity to have an opinion on it or

Brian Atlasimagine Jojo This is a matter of opinion there if you can live with that kind of her opinion you have to promise me you're going to go watch Saving Private

Brian AtlasRyan and All Quiet on the Western Front I think that one's available on Netflix if you haven't that you have to promise me we going to watch after the show the last thing on the war thing and then we're going to move

Brian Atlason have you seen Tales of AA let me bro what okay that's are you familiar with the current conflict in UK

JoJoalso about World War II but it's about women the women's side the women were sad that their husbands died sad yeah they were sad at home you are you

Andrew Wilsonfamiliar with the Ukraine conflict yes were they putting screws in sheet metal in the movie I mean you guys could watch it okay so if I homework I'll give you homework did you actually watch the

Andrew Wilsonmovie what the tales of Gaya yeah yeah okay what was it about uh just the war stories of like four different women and then name a single female character from

Andrew Wilsonthe movie I haven't seen it in years I saw was young a SE A Single Character just one I I don't remember don't remember oh my

Andrew WilsonGod all right okay it's can can can does a scene Stand Out is there a scene you can give me from the movie that stands out to you of tales of AA yeah um they

JoJowere she was protecting her children in it with they had a Trav I don't remember the character names I don't remember okay all right all right go ahead go ahead they had to travel a long distance

JoJoto avoid the soldiers who were raiding the the villages in ouring many miles is this where you got your knowledge on the war about from that movie

Malikthat is a diabolical you should be wearing this not me did did they manage to

Malikescape I did feel like all of your knowledge on the war was from that movie now that you just mention that this is going to be the craziest drive home ever

Celeste/Madisonspeak about drive home it's a little bit late let me read here Madison can I have you read this chat and we I I have one last thing and then in relation to oppression a new take is poor men shouldn't be allowed to date

Celeste/Madisonmarry have kids if you can't afford a date stay single and work on yourself what does the table think about going around the table on this and then I'll come back really quick on one thing go ahead uh I think that's crazy but I kind

Esmeof said that earlier um saying poor men should not be allowed to date agree or disagree I disagree um I say that if I mean if you're not financially Sab one you probably shouldn't be having kids but I

Malikmean you should be able to date as long as you're working on yourself okay you can definitely date yeah wait your mic needs to be tilted up I'm so it's fine go ahead I mean obviously you can date but

MichaelaI don't think you should if you don't have anything in your life established you should work on yourself before looking for a partner sure uh I think it's not just specific to men but yeah if you can't afford anything dates

Celesteprobably wouldn't be fun and you probably should work on your side uh I disagree okay uh I believe that they should be able to date still maybe not have a

Celeste/Madisonfamily and maybe be a little bit more established yeah not heroin addicts exactly thank you for that I heavily disagree I I don't think

Celeste/Madisonyou have to have your life established before you get into relationship I think you could get into relationship and and establish it's specifically said about having children too oh yeah you shouldn't have children like you you should get your life sorted or have a

Brian Atlaspartner that has their life life sorted at least but so if it's fa life SED together if it's fair for a woman to say that poor men shouldn't be allowed to

Brian Atlasdate then is it okay for men to say that women who weigh over 150 PBS should wo 150 how much do you think

Brian AtlasI weigh I am in very good shape look I mean that's actually that's being pretty generous too that's being really generous fine more than 130 you shouldn't be allowed to okay then you

Malikcould say whatever want I'm undatable I we more than 130 yeah and I am very fit so kind of you can literally see my ribs through

Brian Atlasmy shirt I'm saying I'm not saying that's my position I'm just saying if it's okay for women to say it is it okay for men to say that I think the the weight is

Malikboth ways though if you say oh men shouldn't date fat woman then women shouldn't date fat men yeah there you go cool okay or they can date each other

Brian Atlasyeah so really quick what's going what's going on in Ukraine okay War so all the Ukraine all the Ukrainian women get this right all the Ukrainian women could

Brian Atlasleave the country this was when you know hit the fan all the men from it was like 18 to 60 maybe 65 I forgot exactly

Brian Atlaswhat they had to stay in the country a lot of them got drafted they had to stay okay in Ukraine this current conflict who would

Brian Atlasyou say is the primary victim holy moly of the Ukrainian war men or women knowing that I just told you that all the women could leave the country and

Brian Atlasall the men had to stay and the vast majority of the military casualties the the are men in the current conflict

Brian Atlaswho's the Prime oh there we go a little progress here I had to use something modern something recent okay and you know what's funny about the Ukrainian War while the Ukrainian men were being

Andrew Wilsonuh killed mik do you have any more of those bananas we can give her a treat Behavior I'll get when we leave it's a joke it's a calm down I'm

Andrew Wilsonkidding I'm kidding that's a crazy J Dude oh my God so now does change now you can go tell your feminist friends about it they all be upset put in your

JoJostandpoint Theory books does it change anything I never said women are better I've always I just my total point my opinion is about fairness right you go draft women go draft men like both are

Brian Atlason the same level wait wait hold on always hold on hold on hold on so what if I told you that all the women a lot

Brian Atlasof women Ukrainian women they went off to Stockholm and Sweden and the UK France wherever they were up on Tinder

JoJoand up in the club while the males in Ukraine were getting decimated destroyed is that evidence of female privilege if

TTS/Donationsin a case scenario you're saying every woman from Ukraine is partying it up 538 donated

TTS/Donations$100 sober from heroin since March 2016 for the one leaving a relationship ship with an addict they have non aa/ Nona meetings in California called ACA

TTS/Donationsand for some that is a helpful transition onward thank you thank you congratulations I'm being sober uh your point you're saying about in the case

JoJowhere every woman is partying it up in all these other countries not every woman but that's what you said and uh you're the men are fighting in the war in the trenches

Brian Atlasyes I agree okay in that case W yep I don't think you've still stated a bigger female grievance compared to

Brian Atlasbecause my original point where this all stemmed from was that forced military conscription the sort of gendered uh participation of men in the military is a bigger grievance Force military

Brian Atlasconscription bigger grievance and all of women's Collective grievances combined a bigger grievance than like War

JoJoand men getting drafted in war yeah yeah yeah yeah she yeah um I I don't really have a bigger grievance okay so men are more pressed

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next