Feral Girl KICKED OUT Who Wants Brian KlLLED Like Charlie Kirk?! Feminism DEBATE! | Dating Talk #264

Date: 2025-10-13

Duration: 7h 59m

Guests

Brian Atlas

VV (Van/April)>

RRachel (Yoga)>

LLindsay (Med Device)>

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_02Ailia Purr(guest)

SPEAKER_03V (Van/April)(guest)

SPEAKER_04Claire(guest)

SPEAKER_05Felicity(guest)

SPEAKER_07Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_08Olivia (VA)(guest)

SPEAKER_10Rachel (Yoga)(guest)

SPEAKER_11Tina(guest)

SPEAKER_13Lindsay (Med Device)(guest)

SPEAKER_14Janette(guest)

Key Moments

IntroAll guests introduce themselves

ControversyAilia admits to porn at 16 with fake ID

ControversyAilia red-carded: wouldn't be surprised if Brian got shot like Charlie Kirk

Key MomentBrian vs V: extended feminism definition debate (~80 min)

Key MomentRachel: married guitarist, divorced, married lead singer of same band

Key MomentV's ectopic pregnancy at 19 in drug rehab

Topics Discussed

Guest Introductions

9 guests. Ailia admits to porn at 16 with fake ID.

Ailia Ejection

Red-carded after Charlie Kirk death threat comment and underage porn admission.

Pasty George iPhone Gift

$2,000 donation for iPhone 17 Pro, unboxed on stream.

Feminism Definition Debate

Brian vs V: ~80 min debate on feminism, advocacy vs equality.

V Ectopic Pregnancy Story

Pregnant at 19 in rehab. Ex threatened to block her if she didn't abort.

Transcript

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Brian Atlasback in the day because we're very important to >> so me personally I'm fine with women having the choice >> but I don't care I don't categorize

Brian Atlaswomen like I almost view it as a bit of a privilege that women didn't have to work now you've basically found yourselves in situations and also I don't really understand this.

V (Van/April)>> Would you trust relying on a woman for your living? >> What uh what do you mean like today modern society >> modern day say you were jobless and you had no one to go to but your

Brian Atlashypothetical girlfriend. >> Yeah. But this is interesting because um I I would argue that your husband is uh I mean look there's a lot of issues currently with dynamics between men and

V (Van/April)women with marriage >> but I think your husband job though >> and >> what if you lost your what if you Yeah. What if you lost your job? You can lose >> and the girlfriend had a job and you were you'd both have to rely on her. Do

V (Van/April)you think that's right? And would you trust that? Like would you trust financially relying on a woman entirely? >> Wait, are are you trying to be like, well, this is what women go through? >> Not necess

V (Van/April)like roles reversed. Do you think anyone should have to financially and entirely rely on someone? Cuz what if they're like a shitty person, you don't love them, they're abusive. Like there's so

V (Van/April)many sil you should not entirely like financially rely on someone. They can hold it over your head. Financial abuse is real. You know what I mean? Like, >> of course it is. >> There's so many things that could like

Brian Atlasgo wrong. >> But I don't understand this argument because all sorts of bad things can happen in corporations. You can be sexually harassed in a corporation. You can be I suppose there's ways in which like you know your corporation goes

Brian Atlasbankrupt and they can't pay you your wages. Like bad things can also happen when you're working. Ultimately though you guys have traded being submissive to your husband to being submissive to an

Brian Atlasemployer to being submissive to a cold heartless corporation that will absolutely fire you. Like corporations will never show you like look I know

Brian Atlasthere's bad men out there but there's also wonderful good men out there and a corporation will never ever if you have a good man will never approach the kind

Brian Atlasof uh goodness I guess you could say that you might receive from a man. Corporations care about their bottom line. They care about money. The moment that you you know whatever the circumstances change corporation will

Brian Atlasget rid of you. That's not always the case when you're married to somebody. >> It could happen when you're married. >> Not always, but it's not always the case. >> Yes. But you've tra this idea that I don't need no man. Congrats. You've

Brian Atlastraded it. You're you're dependent on some [ __ ] mega corp. You're you're dependent on a corporation. >> Great trade. And then the difference is most husbands are just glad you cook a

Brian Atlaslittle food for them. You're pleasant. You have sex, whatever. Boom. Keep your man happy. Most men really don't ask for that much. Instead, your job, your corporation is

Brian Atlasgoing to boss you, literally boss you around. Say, and a lot of men, honestly, they're they're kind of simpy. A lot of men don't know how to put their foot down in a relationship. Most men are not are are honestly there's a lot of nice

Brian Atlasguys out there. They're not going to boss you around the same way a corporation's going to boss you around. You've traded the husband for the corporation. You're married to your career. You're married to your boss. Well, not not literally your boss,

Brian Atlasmarried to the corporation, and your corporation's going to say, "Show up here 9:00 a.m., 6:00 a.m., 7:00 a.m., 8:00 a.m. You're going to stay here in this office."

Janette>> Mhm. >> And you're going to do this work. >> You've traded it. >> But you've traded it. >> That's a choice. >> Sure. It's a choice. >> It's a choice. >> Can I speak to this? Because I'm I'm the only person here, I think, that's

Janetteactually done both. >> I made my own money. I made a ton of money on my own and I you I chose to stop working and then I let a man take

Janettecare of I chose to be subservient, submissive to a man. Um I will say it is much better to be taken care of than to have to take care of yourself. Although

Janettemy marriage wasn't perfect, just the stability of knowing that he's got it and I'm safe and I can become feminine and not have to be in my masculine and

Janettealways fend for myself. That is much preferred to having to figure out how to reach that that nut every every month. Take care of those bills. Again, you just have to choose the right person to

Janettesupport you because it is a miserable experience if you choose the wrong one. >> Yeah. Having to ask for money if you've never had to do that before is not fun. >> Not fun. >> But it is much better in life to have

Tinasomeone that you know who's got your back, who is there to protect you, who absolutely by far. >> I think the women's movement honestly kind of screwed us because now we like,

Tinayeah, we get the choice to go to work, but in some sense like we have to to make our living, but then when you have children now, I work 40 hours a week. I go to school. I have somebody that has

Tinato watch my kid all the time and I don't while I do get to raise him. I don't I'm not always there for the most important moments of his life. So, we're just sending them off to other people to be raised. >> Yeah.

Tina>> When I want to just stay at home like I would love to be a stay-at-home mom and watch my kid grow. >> And you're working to pay for child care. >> Yeah. Also, that that's a good point.

Brian AtlasAlso, uh you I look I think women should definitely have the choice, right? I think I think they should have the choice. I would love to see honestly I'd

Brian Atlaslove to see women more in uh like in STEM fields where we can uh I use this term in the best way possible exploit

Brian Atlasthe intelligence and labor of women so that they can be studying, you know, can can we throw

Brian Atlasboth men and women at cancer research, at studying illnesses? I you know what cancer affects everybody. Let's throw

Brian Atlasall our manpower and that would include women. Let's throw as much of our collective brain power towards solving some of these serious issues. I would love women to get into that. But I think

Brian Atlasone thing when you talk about choice when you double the label when you double the labor pool you have taken choice away from a different subset of women. What about the women who

Brian Atlaspreviously they wanted to be stay-at-home wives, but now due to the economic and financial reality where you really can't, you know, unless the guy's

Brian Atlasa really high earnner, >> you can't really raise have kids, have a house on one income. It's really hard. >> Yeah. And

Brian Atlaspart of that again women should have the choice but there was so much propaganda that pushed women to like career boss babe. I think there should be also

Brian Atlaspropaganda saying hey also it's also really good and totally fine and you're not less of a woman because you want to just have a family and be a stay-at-home

Brian Atlasmom. There should be propaganda in that direction too. But you've the feminists have taken the choice away from the women who would love

Brian Atlasto just be a stay-at-home mom. And you know what? Leave the work to the men. I just I want to I want to raise kids. I want to be a good wife. I want to take

Brian Atlascare of the household. Let my man work. He can be the bread winner. That's that's taken away from the majority of women now. So you've taken a you've granted women one choice but

V (Van/April)taken away another. >> Are you saying that women are the cause of the economic downfall like the recession? >> I guess like >> well so >> you know.

Brian Atlas>> So I mean when you would agree that there are cause and effect, right? >> Yeah. >> Like certain actions even if they're overall good. Uh like for example, you

Brian Atlasdrive your car, right? Do you have a car? Not not right now. Not used to, but >> okay. People drive cars all the time, but we realize that this does create

Brian Atlaslike um pollution, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's a trade-off, right? In this case, >> there's definitely going to be an economic impact. I'm not saying we shouldn't have, you know, necess I'm not

Brian Atlassaying we shouldn't have given women more choice, but one of the cause and effect scenarios, one of the uh consequences of doing this, if you double the labor

Brian Atlaspool, you double the labor pool effectively. There were there were women who were working, but basically you double it up. You you make it like the the social

Brian Atlasstatus quo, the cultural zeitgeist that it's like, "Oh yeah, boss babe it up. Wait till you're 30 to have kids." Uh yeah, that's going to have an impact

Brian Atlaseconomically. If you double the labor pool, that drives wages down.

Brian AtlasLike if we just had an influx like if every I don't know how else to explain it but yeah that's going to make it so that wages get driven down

Brian Atlasthat puts more power into the hands of corporations. Corporations love feminism. They love it. Love it. They can pay their employees less because

Brian Atlasthere is more competition. >> That's not feminism though. like you shouldn't. >> I mean, yeah, it is femin >> equal pay is feminism. >> No, fe feminism. Feminism is the sort of generalized push. Again, I'm not saying

Brian Atlasthat it's wrong for women to have labor force participation, but it is this propaganda push. No, don't have children. Don't get married. Don't read,

Brian Atlasguys. Guys, focus. That's ignore that. Don't get married. There's literally feminist propaganda. Pursue career over marriage over family over children.

Brian AtlasFamily bad, children bad. Wait until you're 30. Wait until you're 35. Freeze your eggs. No. No. >> I think it's choice still and that's

Brian Atlaswhat matters. >> Okay. But it is the case that yeah, you double the labor pool of people that's going to have an economic impact.

Brian AtlasWhether you think it's like worth like at what cost? Like if it's worth it to you, that's fine. But that is a it is quite a direct result. >> Do you think some men are less capable

Brian Atlasof working than women? >> Some Yeah. There's there's men who are lazy. There's women who are like insanely motivated and uh hard workers. >> Yeah.

V (Van/April)>> And everyone has a different IQ. So technically like >> what do you mean? Well, like some people are just smarter than others, you know,

V (Van/April)and can be more productive in society than others. And it doesn't matter the gender. That's just kind of >> Yeah. I mean, I think on a balance of probabilities, I think

Brian Atlasmen are typically more motivated to make money than women are, though. And that might manifest itself. Well, I mean, my argument against the wage gap,

Brian Atlasfirst off, there isn't a wage gap if you account for all variables. If you account for all these variables, men work longer hours, men work more overtime, men get more hazard pay, men

Brian Atlasare more likely to relocate, men are more likely to be in a geography that [ __ ] sucks, men are more likely to work dangerous jobs, men are more likely to be injured on the job. Men are more likely to

Brian Atlasuh I'm trying to think what what else. Um did I say die on the job? Um injuries, deaths. Uh men go into fields that happen to pay

Brian Atlasmore. All kinds of variables. If you control for all these variables, the wage gap shrinks. However, I would argue that women's

Brian Atlasexpectation that men pay for first dates and men be providers, that actually is the I would argue that the wage gap could be

Brian Atlasexplained away by women's own dating preferences. If it is the case as a guy that and look, I agree some women are fine

Brian Atlasgoing 50/50. Some women, you know, they don't mind. I would say most majority of women. So that would be at least 51% or more. Uh

Brian Atlasmajority strong preference that the guy pay for first dates, the guy maybe pay for subsequent dates. I don't know if it's a majority where it's a deal breaker. Like if the guy's like, "Let's go 50/50." I don't know if

Brian Atlasit's a majority, it's a dealbreaker. Let's say it's a 30% deal breaker. 30% of women, if the guy doesn't pay for the first date, and we've had these women on the show. That's it. If he doesn't pay for the

Brian Atlasfirst date, it's over. Won't date him again. Um, deal breaker. This puts a massive pressure on men that

Brian Atlasnever exists towards women. Like women, maybe you go 50/50. You almost never Women will almost never pay for everything on the first date. Almost. >> Oh, I Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah.

Brian Atlas>> Right. like, yeah, maybe sometimes women go 50/50, don't pay for the first date. So, if it's the case that the barrier to

Brian Atlasmen getting romantic attention, sexual access, girlfriend, wife, is I have to have my I financially I need to be in a good spot as a man. I need to pay for

Brian Atlasdates. And women put this burden and pressure on men that never gets reciprocated. Like most men are not like, "Well, if

Brian Atlasshe doesn't pay for the date, it's a deal breaker. No more dates after that." Men don't say that [ __ ] That's never I've never Oh my god. >> Honestly, never heard that. >> She will won't pay for the whole date. Deal breaker. No. Never heard a guy say that [ __ ]

Brian Atlas>> Um >> and you guys would probably laugh if a guy said that [ __ ] You'd be like, "What the fuck?" >> Yeah. Yeah. Um that's like >> that creates because of women's own

Brian Atlastraditional gender role expectation that would just explain away the gender pay gap. >> Men are simply because of women's own expectations.

Brian AtlasIt's like basically like this. Do you think men are highly motivated to uh well let's start it simple. Are men really motivated to get laid? to get laid.

Brian Atlas>> To get laid. >> That's like their number one [ __ ] >> Right. It's like self-evident like men are men are these horn dogs, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Do you think it it's helpful in getting laid to pay for the first date?

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. >> You think And you think it would be do you think it would be harmful when it comes to getting laid if you're like you made a fe you made an a stand, you know what, let's go 5050. You think it would

Brian Atlashurt like hurt his chances maybe a little bit? A teeny bit. You think? >> I think so. Well, in any case, it helps his chances if he pays for the date, right? >> Yeah.

Brian Atlas>> Maybe also just helps his chances if he appears to be doing well financially. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, and then beyond that, like if a girl's looking for like

Brian Atlaslong-term, like if she's trying to figure out if this guy's good long-term potential, she probably wants a guy who's like, you know, not some, you know, doing well, right?

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. >> He's not struggling. You know, it might it it'd be more attractive if he's doing well. >> Yeah. Yeah. Do you think it's the case in the

V (Van/April)reverse for women? >> Men probably think more successful women are more attractive if it's really >> not at all. >> But like for at least for the first

Brian Atlasdate, like do you think a woman's income when a man's like, let's say it's just even keeping it to casual sex, not even relationship? >> Yeah. >> Do you think a man care like cares if she pays for the date or

V (Van/April)>> Oh, no. Not pays for a date, but like >> Yeah. It doesn't care. >> Eventually, probably, but not on like the first, you know. >> Yeah. So,

Brian Atlaswomen can women can be I mean, look, broke guys definitely get [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> But, it's maybe a little harder. Maybe he would do a bit better if he was doing a little better. Um,

Felicity>> is it really such a priority for men that they're like, I'm going to get laid. Like, I need to get laid. Is that what they're thinking when they're going on first dates? >> Have you met men?

Brian Atlas>> I would say I would say a lot of men. >> A lot of men their motivation they not to say that they only want that but they want the the total package. And yes, a

Janettelot of men definitely want to >> [ __ ] testosterone. >> Are they also thinking I want a partner or is it like more sexual? If a man if a man's looking for a partner and considers you to be an eligible partner,

Janetteit's less likely that they'll attempt to sleep with you on the first date if they actually like you in that way. In my opinion, >> even though they want to. >> Yeah. That doesn't mean they don't want to. >> Partners obviously they have sex, but is that really like the main thing for men?

Brian Atlas>> But yeah, definitely. If you have bad sex with a man, I mean sex is important, >> but regard Okay. Regardless of the primary motivation, maybe sex is secondary or t tertiary. Would that be third? Yeah, that's

Brian Atlas>> tertiary. >> Good word. Um, >> ultimately there if the calculus is men need to have something going when it

Brian Atlascomes to money or they need to make an overt gesture that has a financial component. Women are upholding the gender wage gap because it's basically like I mean I I don't think that I'm I

Brian Atlasdon't know what the solution is. Like I'm not saying like have sex with homeless dudes. >> Like don't do that. >> Don't give [ __ ] to homeless dudes, you know. But maybe

Brian Atlas>> but maybe I'm just saying the reason men it it conceivably hypothetic or theoretically could be the case. The

Brian Atlasreason men earn more is because we are motivated to. Because I think I look, women are romantically motivated. Obviously, I'm

Brian Atlasnot saying women don't want boyfriends. Women don't want to have, you know, sex. Women don't want a partner. But in order for a woman to get that her

Brian Atlasher the state of affairs of her money and finances is completely negligible. Completely ne negligible. A woman's finances is never going to stop her from getting laid.

Brian AtlasIt's never going to really stop her from getting a boyfriend. Um whereas a man's state of affairs as it relates to his finances, his money definitely will.

Brian AtlasDefinitely will. Ultimately, the argument here is women create the gender wage gap because you motivate because men are

Janettereally romantically motivated to make money. >> I mean, doesn't Jordan Peterson talk about the uh also the fact that men are willing to work longer hours. They don't have to take breaks for child birth. I

Brian Atlasmean, there was a lot of things that could that there's a lot of reasons. There's a lot of reasons, but since it's a dating podcast, >> I I do think that this this actually I

Brian Atlasthink it's an and I don't actually hear anyone else out there ever making this argument that it's

Brian Atlasone of the variables could just be men are just like I don't know me I don't know if people don't know this, men are really motivated by sex and by women.

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. super motivated. >> Oh, it causes war. >> Like if >> like if Trust me, if if we could [ __ ] y'all in a cardboard box, we would >> we would >> I know.

Janette>> Have you seen like how a single guy lives? He doesn't like, you know, we're very minimal. You know, we don't need much. >> You're not seeking to feel protected or cared for in that sense. So, you're not

SPEAKER_01seeking any sort of financial dependence. So, it makes sense. >> Yeah. Um, okay. Okay, we have a message >> from the government of Canada. >> Oh,

SPEAKER_01>> Pasty George donated $2004. We know that you think and believe that the feminism out in the world right now is about equality, but what Brian is

Brian Atlastrying to explain is that it is not. Current feminism is not about equality. >> Yeah, true. Yeah. Also, like to your point, Pasty, I'm not interested in

Brian Atlasthese dictionary definitions. I'm interested in outcomes. Um, you can say it means equality all day long. Um, but if you look at the behavior of feminists, the messaging in feminist

Brian Atlasspaces, um, how the ideology is weaponized, media, politics, culture,

Brian AtlasI think it overwhelmingly manifests as hostility towards men. Point blank period.

V (Van/April)I've definitely seen that side. I have. And I've also seen um but I just was trying to say that's not true feminism. >> Well, I mean that's just no true

Brian AtlasScotsman. But I mean do you question >> I can see what you're saying. Yeah. >> But have you heard the term toxic masculinity? >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. Is that like kind of a feminist talking point? >> Do you think it is?

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. It's probably within the purview of the fe uh feminist framework. But why I guess why does feminism tolerate rhetoric

Brian Atlasthat frames men as inherently toxic, predatory, uh um dangerous, oppressive just for being men. I think it's trauma

V (Van/April)based again on both like that's in my opinion misandry and like putting even societal norms and expectations on men that like you can't like cry or you have

V (Van/April)to be the strongest man in the room or like you know there's a lot of sexist things pushed on men that shouldn't be and like I think that's like >> you know okay >> men should be allowed to like express

V (Van/April)their emotions and stuff and that should be pushed more in femin and like I guess the toxic masculinity is coming from like society

V (Van/April)pushing on man men this toxic expectation that they shouldn't feel and they have to be like the strongest and make the most money >> that's like tox it's toxic you know and it's not

Brian Atlas>> right and I guess >> but they feminists often times want to paint masculinity inherently as toxic and I don't find that distinction particularly really helpful.

Brian AtlasI would much like if feminism was about true egalitarianism, I would frame it like this. There are toxic women, there are toxic men. Let's combat specific

Brian Atlastoxicity. I don't think we need a gender toxicity. >> Like, and look, to be charitable, perhaps it's the case that toxicity man manifests itself differently between men

Brian Atlasand women. >> Yes. But I think attaching using the term toxic masculinity unnecessarily muddies the water and

Brian Atlasmakes it confusing and sort of points to or suggests that masculinity in and of itself has a toxic element and is toxic. Like when you say toxic masculinity,

Brian Atlasthere is some degree of suggestion there. I mean, you could argue a bit over the semantics and the word choice here. I think a lot of people will interpret that as a sort of uh

Brian Atlascondemnation of just masculinity as a whole generally speaking. But I do I mean my next point would simply be you know you want to say well that's not true feminism.

Brian AtlasI would argue the main feminist framework and ideology is misanderist. If you look at mainstream, you know, we talked about schooling, education,

Brian Atlas>> feminist thought leaders, writers, thinkers. >> Yeah. >> Ever since the start of feminism, there's a really clear track record of anti-male rhetoric. >> I mean, I guess

Brian Atlas>> like do do you know uh Valerie, what's her name? Valerie Solanos? >> No, I don't. >> She was like a feminist. I think she's still alive. She tried to kill Andy Warhol. She wrote a book called The Scum

Brian AtlasManifesto. A lot of these feminists advocate for things. I think one famous feminist said we should uh coal is is the coal the right word? Coal the male population to 10% or something.

Brian Atlas>> What the >> But these are that's horrible. But that's not feminism. >> Question. Should men work their way out of prison? >> Work their way out of prison? >> Like should men start in prison? >> Start in prison?

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. Like they have to prove them. Men have to prove them. I've heard feminists say this. Men should start off in prison and have to prove themselves and work their way out. >> What the [ __ ] >> Women should have >> I don't agree with that. No.

V (Van/April)>> Okay. >> That's crazy. That's literally crazy. >> Well, you you wrote just cuz you wrote um feminist misandre which isn't possible. >> Well, I think there's radical feminists

Brian Atlasthat are not even feminine. Like I think >> can a feminist be misand? >> I don't think so. No. >> Can How about this? >> That's a chauvinist. >> Let's Let's test out the logic. Can a men's rights activist be a misogynist?

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. >> Wait, I don't understand that. So >> So you could argue actually, you know, I the the men's rights the men's rights activists I think are way more

Brian Atlasideologically pure than feminists. >> Well, there's radical ones though, you know. >> Sure. But I think men's rights advocacy is like way less

Brian Atlastoxic or problematic than feminism because I don't think in men's rights activis activism it like cakes in all this like class warfare [ __ ] But

Brian Atlastesting out the logic, can a men's right rights activist be a misogynist? >> Well, okay. Men's rights. Tell me what you

V (Van/April)like. Is that like like is there men's rights activists like commonly? I guess I I guess I haven't done enough research on men's rights activist.

Brian Atlas>> Well, you you're aware of the term, right? >> Yeah, but I'd have to do more looking into that side to >> for simplicity sake. for simplicity

Brian Atlassake, men's rights activist would be like sort of again I think the men's rights uh

Brian Atlasframework is way more is more palat well some pe obviously feminists would dispute this I think it's more pal palatable because it

Brian Atlasdoesn't smuggle in uh as like really anti-female rhetoric typically it's it has >> I'd have to look into it. >> Okay. Men's rights got >> educated on that. >> Men's rights activists would be the mere

V (Van/April)opposite of feminists. >> Yeah. >> You've never heard the term? >> I have, but I haven't like re like from the groups I have seen, they're all misogynistic. So, I guess it's like

V (Van/April)answer the question though. >> Well, I mean, maybe that's the answer. Can a men's rights activist be a misogynist? I think if they don't push for women's

Brian Atlasrights too then yes and it's the same like >> why why would that be okay hold on but the answer is yes men's rights activists

V (Van/April)can be misogynist so why can't feminists be misandress >> if they don't push for equal rights then it's like >> they're misand

Brian Atlasoh my god um >> that's my opinion >> but If a logically if a men's rights activist could be a misogynist then a feminist could be a misanderist.

Brian Atlas>> I said if they don't push for equal rights then it's chauvinism you know. >> Wait hold on. You could be you could be

Brian Atlasa feminist and want equality but also hate men. >> Like the two things aren't mutually exclusive. How can you hate men while

V (Van/April)pushing for equal rights though? You know, >> I don't think these are contrary.

V (Van/April)>> Okay. Well, I'm just saying I said my stance on it. I think like it's e like feminism >> about equality though is the thing. >> You're saying modernday feminism isn't.

Brian AtlasBut >> but people who assume the title of feminist, you think it's impossible for like you're you're trying to stick to the dictionary definition. >> Yeah. For both.

V (Van/April)>> You don't you don't think that there's ever been a stated feminist who is a misandress? >> Like is that impossible? >> Yeah. Like that's not feminism, but I'm sure they self pro like self-proclaimed

V (Van/April)feminism. >> This is no true Scotsman. They self-proclaimed feminism that isn't feminism because it's misandry. >> Uh, okay. I mean, the logic isn't logicing, I guess.

V (Van/April)>> Well, if you're a self-proclaimed feminist and push for women's rights over like don't push for equals equal rights and you're a misandress and hate men, then you're not a feminist because

V (Van/April)you're not pushing for equal rights and like gender equality. >> Feminism doesn't push for equal rights though. That's what he's saying. It does. >> I hear that. I hear that. And I'm just saying I'm going by the definition and

Brian Atlaswhat I was taught as like >> Yeah. Even Even using your definition of feminism. I don't see how it would be

Brian Atlasimpossible for somebody to like you can claim to be a feminist and also be a misandress >> but I just don't

Brian Atlas>> you can also basically you can be a feminist and hate men like >> yes you can they do it all the time >> it's show feminism though

Claire>> you can be a god >> this is unrelated do we still get food. >> Yeah, we're getting food later. >> Okay. >> It's coming a little bit later. >> Um, >> do you think women can be a misogynist? >> Yeah.

V (Van/April)>> Okay. >> [ __ ] yeah. Of course. So many women I know are misogynistic. Like it's >> Wait, question. Let's say uh like a feminist scholar

Brian Atlasdid doesn't hate men, but then one day she starts hating men. Is she no longer a feminist? But she's >> Is she still pushing for gender equality? >> Yeah, but she really hates men. Like

V (Van/April)she's like, "We should be equal, but she hates men." >> Does that translate in her actions? Like does she like you said one of the

V (Van/April)one of the things you said is 50/50 custody in custody like battles. You know what I mean? >> You you do realize that. Um

Brian AtlasOkay. Watch. Well, check this [ __ ] out. Let me make this super simple. >> I I don't know how else to do this. You know, criminal defense attorneys, right? >> Mhm.

Brian Atlas>> Criminals should have rights. Uh but I think even criminal defense attorneys probably genuinely hate like genuine

Brian Atlasmurderers, but they still will probably have a position. Like even me, I'm not a criminal defense attorney. Uh yeah, I think even criminals, even criminals who

Brian Atlascommit murder should be afforded certain rights in the justice system, but I hate criminals, but they can also I can also advocate

Brian Atlasfor the rights of criminals. Does that make sense? So I as it relates to feminism, I think a a

V (Van/April)feminist could be like, you know, look, >> men and women should be equal, but I hate men. Does that make sense? >> No, because that's a job and he's getting paid to fight for crim like, you

Brian Atlasknow, that's a like a criminal. >> Oh my god, you're totally missing. That just went over your head. >> I No, but I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying. But what about the example I gave where I said I'm not a criminal defense attorney. I hate

Brian Atlaspeople who commit murder, but I acknowledge even people who even people who it's clear they've like it's not just a who done it. It's like they definitely killed somebody even they

V (Van/April)should be afforded rights under the justice system. >> Why do you believe that? >> Well, I'd question that honestly over

Brian Atlasit. But I get what you're saying. I guess I just have a different stance on it. >> Yeah, but I don't think these two positions are contradictory. As a woman, you could be like, you know what, I

Brian Atlasthink that men and women should have equal rights, but also uh you hate men. Like those two things are I don't think women should hate men, but they're kind of compatible.

V (Van/April)>> I already said my stance on it, though. >> Okay, let me dumb it down even more, >> bro. I'm not going to change my stance or I'm kidding. Just listen. Just listen. Like, I'm not. >> Just listen. Listen. >> I'm not going to change my mind. >> Okay.

Brian Atlas>> I think pineapple on pizza is disgusting. I [ __ ] hate it. I [ __ ] hate it. But I think people should have the right to order pineapple on pizza.

V (Van/April)>> I still have the same st I get what you're saying again, but I still have the same stance. You know what I mean? >> I still have the same stance.

SPEAKER_01360L donated $200. Fourth and final TTS tonight late over here in the UK. See you in the next show. >> Yo, thank you Brian.

SPEAKER_01>> Can I get a salute going? >> Have a great night, brother. >> Thank you, man. >> Freefelicity #free Nick # big labia matters. >> Who's Nick?

Brian Atlas>> Ouch. >> Rude. >> Pull that up. Yo, is Pasty George still in the chat? >> Yo, Pasty, my dainty hands holding up

Brian Atlasthis phone, man. >> My dainty hands. Pull it up. >> Just hold it, >> dude. I need my hands. I'm going to get carpal tunnel syndrome.

Felicity>> Yo, I need an iPhone air pop. I need an iPhone air pop. Just kidding. >> Oh my god. >> Really? >> Oh my god. Felicity, read this. >> Stop panhandling. Why should a woman that initiated a divorce get child

Felicitysupport alimony? These are the types of women who are destroying the western society and making men like Brian not want to get married. >> Okay. Can I I mean as a >> Yeah, go ahead. >> Okay.

Janette>> So, just because my soon-to-be ex-husband has behaved in a way that was not suitable to continue the marriage, he therefore does not have to pay me anything because I'm choosing to leave

Janettethe marriage. Is that is that the reasoning there? Am I get am I getting this correct? >> I don't think it was directed to you. >> No, no, no, no. I'm just I'm trying to use as an example. There's so many reasons why a marriage ends, but if a man behaves completely perfectly and

Tinathis woman out of nowhere decides to leave, I understand your point, but that's not always the case. I think alimony and child support should kind of be divided up too because if a man

Tinawillingly had a child with you and yes, >> you are still the primary parent and you don't make as much as the other person. >> Like why wouldn't

Tina>> that money would get spent either way, married or not married on the child? >> What does child support have to do with that specifically? Hm. >> By the way, I just want to explain the

Brian Atlasno true Scotsman thing. So, saying it's not real feminism, that's called a no true uh Scotsman fallacy. So, if you build an entire movement, that movement

Brian Atlasbecomes mainstream. If you watch what it produces, you you can't then like constantly disown the effects of that movement. So if an

Brian Atlasideology consistently breeds anti-male rhetoric and anti-male sentiment, it's just you can't remove that from

Brian Atlasfeminism. So the problem is with the ideology, not just the followers.

V (Van/April)Does that all right? I just don't I guess I got to do my research on your side because I get what you're saying

Brian Atlasand what you're trying to say, but I haven't personally seen that in feminism. >> I'll break it down again. Something different, a different approach. So, when we were talking about the patriarchy, right, you said you believe

Brian Atlasin the patriarchy. Women are oppressed. Men are the oppressors. So if you believe men as a group are oppressors and oppressors, would you agree are

Brian Atlasinherently unjust, powerful, and dangerous? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Then how are you not going to end up viewing men negatively as a group?

V (Van/April)>> Cuz true feminists would be like, "But some men fight for it. There's male feminists as well." No, no, but but the the framework and ideology of feminism,

Brian Atlasthe lens is patriarchy. It it looks through life. Put give put on those uh rosecolored glasses. >> God. Okay. >> So, the framework you put those on. Those are the feminist glasses, right? >> Okay.

Brian Atlas>> Now, everything's red to you. >> Yeah. >> Feminists look at society. They look at the dynamics between men and women. They look at culture. They look at everything

Brian Atlasthrough the feminist lens. They look at okay patriarchy theory, right? >> And patriarchy theory paints men as a group as oppressors. If I again I think

Brian Atlasyou would have to categorize true oppression uh you would oppress you you would categorize oppressors unjust, powerful, dangerous.

Brian AtlasIf this is what feminism is propagating, >> wouldn't anyone start resenting the oppressor, the so-called oppressor?

Brian AtlasI think they could. >> And so that resentment breeds contempt and that definitionally

Brian Atlaswould be misandry. airgo. Feminists not always feminists are misandress some. Sorry, I should say some feminists

V (Van/April)are misandress. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, I'll I'll compromise with you there, but I still don't think >> Okay. >> Defin like >> But okay, I'll sure we >> What do What do you think of men? Just

V (Van/April)curious. Like in general, >> generally what do you mean? How how am I supposed to answer that question? >> Uh like for example, ask me the question about women.

Brian Atlas>> How do you feel about women? >> I think women are great. Um love women. They're great. Don't always agree with certain women on certain things, but overall I think women are great.

Brian Atlas>> I would say the same. >> If you ask women that question about men, it's not quite as positive. Not typically a very positive response you get from them. Uh let me ask you this other follow-up question. Yeah. >> Do we need men?

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. >> Do you need men? >> Like in what context? >> Uh, I'm not talking romantically. I'm just talking like society. Do we need >> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. What do you mean? >> Not just for >> You need both. You need both genders.

ClaireYeah. >> Well, not just for reproduction, but >> here. Why don't we just I want to open it up to the table. >> Yes. >> I know me and her have been talking quite a bit. Uh, what do you think of men? Um,

Brian Atlas>> I mean just the same how I feel about women. Like it's really no different. >> You don't have a bit of a ingroup bias. >> Like women are a little better. >> I enjoy being a woman and I love all my

Olivia (VA)women friends. Yeah. >> Okay. >> I think they're great. Awesome. >> Okay. >> I absolutely adore masculine men. >> Yeah. I I do like men.

Tina>> Same. >> I like men obviously. Do we need men? >> Yes. >> I think so. Yeah. >> Absolutely. >> Yes. >> For sure. >> Bash. >> Yes. >> 100%.

SPEAKER_01>> A message from the government of Canada. >> He's back. >> Pasty George donated $2004. Basically, chair one is stuck on an

SPEAKER_01outdated belief of feminism when the current feminism in practice today is based on advantaging women at the expense of men and demonizing men as well. >> I hear that opinion.

SPEAKER_01>> Oh, look at that. >> Yo, Pasty George, thank you, man. Appreciate the uh TTS. Appreciate it, man. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. >> Adzil's donated $200.

SPEAKER_01You just got baited. This is my true final TTS. No, >> I just wanted to test something. It's confirmed. You're truly a Swifty since

Brian Atlasthey also believe everything here. Muppet. Fr. All love, Brian. >> This is not going to be your your true final TTS because watch this.

Brian Atlas[Music] >> Michael Jackson better in the Jackson 5. Boom. Okay. >> Oh god. Oh, wow.

Brian Atlas>> Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Okay. Uh, all right. Let's see here. Uh, um, I'm almost done with this feminist

Brian Atlasback and forth here, I guess. >> Please, please. >> Yeah, I'll check it really quick. Private. I didn't I don't see anything in private. >> Oh, I said something. >> Did you?

Brian Atlas>> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, the looks stuff. Okay, we'll we'll get to that in just a sec. Um, I don't know. Look, if an ide ideology reliably

Brian Atlasproduces resentment toward one group, um, I ultimately I don't care what a dictionary says. I don't care. I don't

Brian Atlascare what your dictionary definition is. >> It's not about equality. Um, and I think that's what modern feminism has become. It's it's a sort of uh

Claireresent resentment towards men. Like let me ask you this and the other women can answer too. Well, who here is a feminist going around the table? Feminist. >> I would consider myself a feminist by

Clairedefinition of like feminism is a movement to end sexism and gender equality. >> Sure. Okay. What about you? Feminist? >> No. >> Uh just say yes or no because audio. >> No.

Brian Atlas>> No. No. No. >> Okay. Um what uh do men have any rights in this country that women don't?

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. >> As the two the two feminists will have to answer this one. >> Rights that women don't. >> Well, so your position feminism is about equality. >> Yeah.

Brian Atlas>> Well, what what is the lacking of equality as it relates to rights? I mean, there's different forms of equality, but do you is it your position? Well, >> do women not have equal rights? Let's

Brian Atlasstart there. >> I don't believe so. No, >> not fully. >> You don't. So, women So, women don't have equal rights? >> No. >> Okay. What do you think? Do women not

Clairehave equal rights? I think in the US like by law yeah we have equal rights but it's like like for example we can all have like equal rights in terms of race but racism can still exist and like

Brian Atlasso I feel like sexism can also exist even though there are equal rights. Yeah, definitely. There's absolutely sexism. Men can be sexist towards women. Women can be well, I don't know if you

Brian Atlasguys think women can be sexist towards men, but um you seem to think though that in the what what is a right in the US that

V (Van/April)cuz you write in the questionnaire women do not have equal rights, >> reproductive rights. >> I'll engage there, but is there anything else? Any other rights? That's the one off the top of my head,

Brian Atlasbut I >> Yeah, but is there even if you can't think of it, is there any other right? >> Oh, I'm 100% sure. Yeah, I just have to like >> Okay. >> Think more on it before I give you a full response. You know, this is what

Brian AtlasI'm prepared to >> Well, just give me one. I don't need a laundry list. Give me one other thing besides reproductive equal pay. Well, I guess that's not like a right, but

Brian Atlas>> but women have the right to work under law. Women have to be paid the same as men. >> What is the right that is being infringed upon?

Brian Atlas>> Okay. I guess that was like but it's an unfair thing. That's not right. Yeah, you're right. >> Well, my position we already engaged on wage gap. Wage gap doesn't exist. But it wouldn't be evidence of a

Brian Atlas>> an inequality of rights. >> Mh. Yeah, I agree with that. That was my bad. >> Okay. One besides reproduction, one other way women don't have equal rights.

V (Van/April)>> Fertility. Well, I guess that's like the same [ __ ] But, uh, reproductivity and I want to say like

V (Van/April)still to this day, it's harder for women to get medical care. That's not true. That's not true. >> Like without like

V (Van/April)>> how so like demonstrated >> like women are taken a lot less seriously in you know medicine and stuff and like going

Tina>> that's not true. >> All right. Tell me how >> I work in the medical field. There are plenty of women that have highpaying positions are super smart doctors. I

Brian Atlasthink she's talking about like when >> a woman goes to a doctor the the doctor is going to take her complaints less seriously. >> Are you going off of a personal

Lindsay (Med Device)experience? If so, can you give an example? Cuz I can give multiple demonstrate that if it was a man and from what I've heard and seen >> with other women, they have

Brian Atlas>> Isn't it the case that women actually get more healthcare? Like women are more likely to go to the doctor. they're more likely, you know, there's a there perhaps is a debate over the quality of the care as compared to men. But isn't

Brian Atlasit at least true that women are more likely to go to the doctor? >> Yes. I mean, >> well, statistically, could it actually be the case that because women are more likely to go to

Brian Atlasthe doctor, when men finally do choose to go to the doctor, it actually is the case, could be the case that men actually present with more clear-cut

Brian Atlassymptoms of like, holy [ __ ] I've got a bullet wound. Whereas like maybe women's com like when women go to the doctor and look >> so I I don't dispute that maybe a doctor

Brian Atlasthinks the woman's mingering or you know he's not taking it as seriously. Maybe that's maybe that happens. But the fact that I I think it's actually the argument could be made women get better

V (Van/April)health care than men because men don't [ __ ] go to the doctor. >> I disagree. >> What what your experience? Um, my lymph node was hardened and swollen for three

V (Van/April)years and I've been getting a lot of symptoms and I didn't get the proper care I needed for 3 years of it escalating >> doctor you know this idea that >> with like proof and like

Brian Atlas>> but but hold on you think that one thing too one thing though how would you demonstrate that if it was a man in your position that he would like the doctor would be like you know what we have to solve this

V (Van/April)>> it took me multiple doctors >> yeah but where How is it a comparison between men and women? >> It's less common for men to not be taken. >> I mean, you're just pulling this completely out of your ass, but

Lindsay (Med Device)>> you're going off of a a bad experience that maybe you have encountered, but I don't think that that justifies the care for >> two things here. Two things here. That has nothing to do with rights. Women

Brian Atlashave access to healthcare. So, it could be the case maybe there's like rampant sexism in the healthcare industry, which I I think it's a bit dubious because typically on intake on intake you have a

Brian Atlasfemale nurse and so unless you're prepared to say that like these female nurses are like have are sexist towards women. >> Terrible experiences. >> Are you at an urgent care? You I'm assuming you don't have health insurance. I hope that's not offensive, but are you

Janette>> No, no, I do. >> You do? Okay. So, were you No. Okay. Not everyone does. A lot of jobs don't provide >> really good health insurance. >> But what what does this have to do with rights really quick? And then

Brian Atlas>> like women can't get certain surgeries. Women can't get certain drugs like >> some like some surgeries you can't get without

Brian Atlasa part of a protocol. >> Men or women? >> Yeah. >> Totally fake news. I think you're going to say, well, uh, you know, uh, getting your tubes tied is, you know, it's harder for a woman to get her tubes tied

Brian Atlasversus a vasectomy. This of course ignores the fact that uh for that kind of much more invasive medical surgical procedure >> like if you have an ectopic pregnancy

V (Van/April)where >> an ectopic pregnancy is always is always taken by >> it's a medical but there have been so many cases where doctors are scared they will lose their jobs

Lindsay (Med Device)>> medical abortion >> for a top no a topic pregnancy will take somebody's >> look it up life That's what I'm saying pregnancy which is why I'm like so educated on this and that's why I believe >> so where are your statistics coming from

V (Van/April)that that's not taken seriously >> I've seen cases online where it's like >> you could look up anything and there's always cases >> scared

Tinato prescribe people drug like opioid scared they get a bigger repercussion from prescribing pain medication than the fact that that an attopic Pregnancy

Tinais a medical procedure that you they have to procure and they could lose their >> they cannot tell you no. That is against the hypocratic oath. >> But what does

V (Van/April)>> but in certain like red states >> women have been like put in extreme danger because doctors will wait until

V (Van/April)it's too late to give the procedure or abortion that they need medically cuz they're scared to lose their job. >> Those are states where it's illegal, I'm pretty sure. Yes. >> Well, hold on. First off, >> there is no state that it's essentially

Brian Atlasillegal. >> So, the the standard standard of care is going to be observed by doctors and health care professionals regardless of the gender of their patient. Yes.

Brian Atlas>> Also, uh this this idea that women are receiving like worse care or

Brian AtlasOh [ __ ] I had something good on that, but it just slipped my mind. Um I I mean I don't know how that really relates to rights. >> How

Brian Atlas>> how does it how would that relate to like a right >> that's like basically your rights to medical medical care? >> Women do have a right to medical care.

Brian Atlas>> But doctors have been too scared. >> So are you are you saying that when I we both go to the same doctor? When I go in there, the doctor dabs me up. He's like, "Yo, what's up, Brian? You know what? you get 50% off your treatment and hold

Brian Atlason. Let's do these blood tests and let's do this. Let's do this. You step in, you walk into the doctor's office, he slaps you across the face. He's like, "Bitch." >> Mhm. >> No, >> you're you're a [ __ ] You're [ __ ]

V (Van/April)mingering. >> I'm saying women have died because of lack of care and lack of >> But I think what you're saying is is not based off of being a man or a woman. You're just going off of your own

Lindsay (Med Device)personal experiences and then saying, "Oh, men have better healthcare." Cuz nothing you've said has actually >> given proof that men actually >> men don't have ectopic pregnancies. >> So then you can't

Brian Atlashear it. >> Also, one one quick thing here also the the medical field is not like I don't know the right term. It's not like a silver bullet. Is that the right term?

Brian AtlasLike you could go to the doctor and you could present with like you said you had something going on with your I've gone to the doctor >> and sometimes you you do realize there are problems that you can be having.

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. >> There's not a solution to your problem. So women can go to the doctor and say I have like chronic pain issues. >> Mhm. >> As I have chronic pain issues. I don't

Brian Atlasknow if you know like I've got I I back. I have I well I have a back injury, neck injury. I have severe chronic pain issues. Been dealing with it for 10 years.

Brian Atlas>> The medical institution does not have a good solution for chronic pain sufferers. So when women go to the doctor, but right, but when women go to the doctor and they're like, well, I have this pain issue, but it's not being

Brian Atlasresolved, >> the medical uh the healthcare industry, sometimes it's just like there's not a fix. There's not a drug. There's not a thing. Look, that there's

Brian Atlasuh with pain management stuff that they can do, but it's not the the medical field is not like some silver bullet that will fix all, cure all. Sometimes there's things that the doctors are

V (Van/April)going to be like, >> okay, >> you're just going to have to deal with this. It's just that's your life now >> because abortion, >> but I don't I don't say when I go to the doctor >> state,

Brian Atlashold on, we'll talk about care. But your your claim is that you went to the doctor and they didn't have a solution to your sometimes there's not a solution. >> Well, I got the solution in three years. But like just saying

Tina>> well I've been I've been dealing with the healthare industry for 10 years. There's not a solution really. >> Women just don't get taken as seriously in the medical. >> That is not true. I work in the medical field. I've been in the medical field

Tinafor over 10 years. There are more women that come to the doctor. I have more women patients that come to my doctor than I do men. Mhm. >> That is not true. There is >> I mean statistically men don't go to the doctor often.

Tina>> They don't because they're afraid that when they go to the doctor they're going to get told, "Oh, you have cancer, you know, and usually that doesn't happen." But it there it's not a rights thing like that has going to the doctor has

V (Van/April)>> abortion is illegal. >> Women are being denied even California. The state of California has legal. >> So that's women's rights, right? Wait, >> we don't get access to life saving care in red states because abortion is

V (Van/April)illegal. >> Wait, abortion is not lifeaving care. Why not? >> If you have an an if you have an ectopic pregnancy, it's literally called a medical abortion. >> And I'm pretty sure life even in like

Brian Atlasred states or whatever, life of the mother, it's allowed. It's allowed. So, but hold on. Are you say is it your position that if we were to grant that abortion would be justified in the case

Brian Atlasof ectopic pregnancy that you would be against like the 99% of abortions which are just for like oops oopsie like are you fine banning those?

Brian Atlas>> What do you mean? >> Well, you're trying Okay, so you realize when it comes to abortion, the majority of abortions are not for incest. They're not for life of the mother. They're not for essay. >> Yeah. They're for a form of birth

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