Andrew Wilson vs. Charlie (Feminist, Leftist) | Rachel Wilson CRASHES Show?! | Whatever Debates #22

Date: 2025-11-09

Duration: 6h 17m

Guests

Brian Atlas

CCharlie (Feminist)>

AAndrew Wilson >

RRachel Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00Andrew Wilson(host)

SPEAKER_03Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_04Rachel Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_05Charlie (Feminist)(guest)

Key Moments

IntroBrian introduces Andrew Wilson vs Charlie debate on feminism

Key MomentAndrew: women voting on war while men die is 'fundamental injustice'

Key MomentBureau of Justice Statistics on interracial crime read aloud

Key MomentCharlie admits she doesn't know what 'per capita' means

Key MomentRachel Wilson crashes debate by phone after Charlie attacked her family

ControversyCharlie: Rachel's life 'would have been better spent' if she aborted her children

Key MomentCharlie reveals she was on testosterone for 10 years (FTMF detransitioner)

AgreementAndrew and Charlie bond over Tolkien and Lord of the Rings

Topics Discussed

COVID Lockdowns vs Feminist Choice

Andrew challenges Charlie: supported lockdowns but supports pro-choice. Inconsistency.

Women Voting / Draft

Andrew: unjust that women vote on war when men bear combat risk.

Abortion and Birth Control

Charlie argues abortion essential for economic equality.

Interracial Crime Statistics

Andrew presents DOJ stats. Charlie contests conviction reliability.

Colonialism and Anti-White Rhetoric

Extended debate on 'colonizer' definition.

Rachel Wilson Crashes Debate

Rachel calls in after Charlie's comments about her children.

LOTR and Tolkien

Post-debate friendly exchange on Tolkien, Christian allegory.

Transcript

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Brian Atlas$99 plus streamlabs.com whatever. Also guys, you can support without any of these plat YouTube uh Streamlabs taking their cut. VMO, Cash App, that is whatever pod just a quick

Brian Atlasand I'll give you guys a shout out too. Uh Christian thing for the 13 on I believe it was either one of the two. Uh guys, if you're watching on Twitch, twitch.tv/w whatever. Drop us a follow. Drop us a prime sub. Get some merch. Shout out whatever.com. We have Discord.

Brian AtlasDiscord.gg whatever. If you're enjoying the stream, guys, if we get this video to uh 7,000 likes, there's 10,000 people watching right now. It might have dipped a little bit there while Andrew went to

Brian Atlasuh take a smoke break. If we get to 7,000 likes, you we we'll try to squeeze in an extra debate this week. Uh our schedule, while we have the debate today, obviously we have dating talk

Brian Atlastomorrow, 5:00 p p.m. Pacific, and then Andrew has round two with Naima Neya. Naima, on Monday, 3 PM Pacific here on the Whatever podcast. But if you we get

Brian Atlasthis video to 7,000 likes, we'll uh we'll try to squeeze in a special third debate. Also guys, if you want to learn how to debate, debateuniversity.com if you want to become a master debater and

Brian Atlasthen once again, as soon as Andrew comes back, we'll get right into a Q&A session. $99 plus Q&A. if you have a question or if you just have a statement that's streamlabs.com whatever. Uh pull

Brian Atlasthat up Mary really quick so we can show the people streamlabs. >> Yeah, pull up the uh streamlabs tab. streamlabs.com whatever. There it is. You just you can input a name there at

Brian Atlasthe top. You can put a put your contribution tip amount and then you can put a message in which we will have pulled up during the Q&A session. Um,

Brian Atlasall right. Good to go. >> Good to go. I did it quick. >> All right. Rock and roll. I will have >> Sorry for daining to answer, James. I didn't realize it was a >> No, it's a it's okay. >> Message from the government.

SPEAKER_01>> Be considerate of the other patron. >> George donated $2004. In Canada, aka Turtle Island. Many indigenous tribes, history keepers, and legends state that when their ancestors

Andrew Wilsoncame to North America, it was empty with no other people living there. >> That's nice. I'm glad that they have legends of that. But archaeological evidence shows that there's a land bridge. At least this is the current

Andrew Wilsonarchaeological history that there was a land ridge which existed for thousands of years that they were crossing into and they settled land and other people came right behind them to settle that

Andrew Wilsonsame land they settled on and they would fight over it because they created colonies and already staked out land. And I don't know what else you want to say about it, but if you live in a land according to the definition, according

Andrew Wilsonto definition two of colonizer, and somebody comes with a different ethnic group and settles the same land you're settled on, that's a coloniz. They're colonizing. That's what they're doing.

Andrew WilsonAnd so the whole idea here is, see, you see the equivocation, how it's always a bait and switch. It's like, no, no, no, you have to have a foreign government that's funding this, otherwise it's not

Andrew Wilsonreally coloniz. It's like that's [ __ ] It's just it's morally the the same equivalency. It's morally equivalent. What's the difference? >> Do you think uh settler is disparaging towards white people? >> Settler.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Yeah, settler. >> I don't think that you guys use settler is disparaging. I think he used colonizer is disparaging. >> Oh, I've heard settler disparaging. I was going to say I will grant that settler that yes, if they were they were

Andrew Wilsonthey settled lands. >> Yeah. So the thing is is like if you >> sometimes with no one there sometimes. >> Yeah. But if you settle lands, right, that usually means not conflict. >> Otherwise it's conquering lands, right? >> Well, you can conquer and settle, can't

Andrew Wilsonyou? >> Yeah. After you conquer them, >> you can then settle. Sure. But when you say settlers, like do you do you consider the people coming out of Israel to Palestine to be settlers? >> People coming out of Israel to Palestine

Andrew Wilsonto be settlers. >> Yeah. when they come when they go when they're making their settlements. >> Yes. >> That's not colonization. >> Uh it's both, but I would consider them settlers as well. >> Okay. Right. So, they're colonizer settlers is what you're really saying.

Andrew Wilson>> Yes. >> Okay. So, then you're actually saying that these people were colonizer settlers. When you say settler, you're just pointing back to colonizer in this context.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Kind of. I do feel like again to me the context of there being a foreign nation that they are under the >> is important. I feel to the definition of

Andrew Wilson>> I feel like it's a morally equivalent statement that you're just calling that you just call uh us colonizers because it's disparaging to white people. And the reason you don't call Native Americans colonizers even if they

Andrew Wilsoncolonized is because you know that they would consider that disparaging to them. And so even though these are morally equivalent acts and it's like it's so obvious to the onlooker like you realize

Andrew Wilsonthat right like from my side it's so obvious to us when your side calls calls us colonizers and [ __ ] like that that it's anti-white rhetoric and it's always been anti-white >> rhetoric think about it. I'm I'm

Andrew Wilson>> Isn't it? I mean you you have the [ __ ] eatating grin because you know it's true though, right? Like you're just gaslighting. Isn't Isn't the whole thing designed as anti-white rhetoric?

Charlie (Feminist)I feel like you are taking me calling making a distinction between the 13 colonies which were under the jurisdiction of a foreign nation farther than it's meant to go.

Andrew Wilson>> Yeah, I don't think so because when I see you you crazy ass leftists all over Tik Tok and all over these places talking about colonizer. The last last time I saw this in depth, we were watching on the Crucible, there was there were I don't know how many was

Andrew Wilsonwith us. maybe at the time like 9,000 live viewers with me at the time as we were watching uh people in front of Portland who were trying to resist our nation's laws. And one of the Hispanics who was there was going person to person

Andrew Wilsonand calling us coloniz calling white people colonizers. You need to get the [ __ ] stop ICE right now you colonizer. You came here and colonized. We have we have the right to be here. We have the right to be here because you're

Andrew Wilsoncolonizers. And so the thing is is like, yeah, you know, I do think that he meant it and he literally said it's because you're white. You're the you're the beneficiary of colonization. >> Yeah. But that's also kind of hilarious

Charlie (Feminist)because when you're talking about Portland, you're talking about people with white guilt to the most extreme. >> This was a Hispanic guy. >> Yeah. Yeah, I know. But he was talking to the white people. >> No, he was talking to white conservatives. >> Oh, the white conservatives. Okay, never mind.

Andrew Wilson>> He was calling them colonizers. >> I thought he was doing that, too. >> And what you guys do? white liberals and leftists and you [ __ ] progressives do this constantly. You call them colonizers and then at the same time say there's no anti-white rhetoric. There's no anti

Andrew Wilson>> I'm not all of those people. >> I Okay, I get it. I get it. It's a generalization. I understand. Even though you yourself said that you use it disparagingly towards white people, but I'm >> I mean it depends upon the context in which it is. >> The context in the most of the ways that

Andrew WilsonI've seen you use it in your videos, it was not polite towards white society. That's for sure. >> I don't know which videos you're referring to, but that's okay. Like clips or whatever. Yeah. Every time I hear you talk about

Andrew Wilsonthe colonizers, okay, it's not used in like a charitable light and the beneficiaries of colonizers, it's not used in a charitable light. And when I see that, I know for sure, everybody

Andrew Wilsonknows who's watching it, right? We can intuitit it out in seconds. And when we put you to the question, we figure it out even faster >> that it's anti-white rhetoric masked as being historically accurate. And it's

Andrew Wilsonlike, it's really not either of those things. It really is just a way for progressives to utilize anti-white rhetoric and pretend that they're not being a bunch of [ __ ] racist [ __ ] That's what I think. That's

Andrew Wilsonwhat I think is going on. >> But those things happened. >> Yeah. You know, but when I tell you about things that happened, >> right, with Native Americans, you're very quick to make excuses for it. And yet um here when it comes to

Andrew Wilsoncolonization the idea that you had a clash of cultures and anytime two cultures clash this is what happens anytime when you have a disparage between technology it's always the case

Andrew Wilson>> I believe it again my my point on the colony just has to do with the foreign state jurisdiction of a foreign state >> yeah that's one definition of colonizing I agree that these were colonies >> okay >> I agree that they were beholden to a

Andrew Wilsonstate >> and then they fought for freedom formed a new paid. >> Mhm. >> So then they were no longer col colonizers. They were born on this land. They were settlers. >> Mhm. >> Well, no, at that point they weren't even settlers. It was their land,

Andrew Wilson>> right? It was theirs. They fought for it. They got it. >> I guess by Yes. European standards, they had claimed the land. Correct. >> By all standards. Who has a standard that if you fight and take the land, it's not yours? What culture has that

Charlie (Feminist)standard? But all of them >> think more about boundaries. I mean, it could be fought back. They could say, "This is our land. We'll take it back." Kino like but >> I think people would disagree. >> We have a message from the government of Canada

SPEAKER_01>> probably about seven or eight >> chief donated $200 out of order. >> When debating with Andrew it's best to know your history and not just cherrypick what you like or feel is

Brian Atlasright. Otherwise Andrew completely destroys your arguments and world views with facts. LMFAO. >> This, just for context, this did came come in a little bit earlier when you

SPEAKER_01guys were debating, I believe, the race victimization stuff. We have >> a message from >> Py George donated $200. >> Bit out of order. We'll get to the rest.

SPEAKER_01>> Andrew, I'm agreeing with you that indigenous people were colonizing the land in North America from the Burring Strait, but you [clears throat] missed the point that it was initially empty with no other people. Yeah, but don't you understand the distinction there?

Andrew WilsonLike you're saying the same thing that I am. Even if they ca went to lands that didn't have people, the people who came after them, who then settled in those lands, remember most of those original groups, right? They were replaced by

Andrew Wilsonother groups. Most of them were replaced by other groups. And so it's like if that's the case, then it's just that what was left was probably mostly the remnants of of early colonization

Andrew Wilsonbetween the landbridge tribes that took over other landbridge tribes. So, it's like, it's all colonization. That's the thing that gets me is it's like, but they don't want you to use that argument because it's always used

Brian Atlasas anti-white rhetoric. It's always used as anti-white rhetoric. >> Thank you, Pasty. We have Bentonville Sandy. Thank you for the

SPEAKER_01>> Bentonville Sandy donated $200. Don't let Elam Charlie nipate you like she did to Go Squad since 2023. So, so this is a this is a man with

Charlie (Feminist)schizophrenia. Um, [laughter] I don't know. I know who that is. He has schizophrenia. >> He doesn't have schizophrenia. Yes, he does. >> Oh,

SPEAKER_01>> okay. All right. We have a message from Rachel coming up here from uh Andrew's wife. >> Rachel Wilson donated $100. You have a degree but don't know what

SPEAKER_01per capita means. You stream about politics but don't know basic crime statistics. You debate but don't make a single argument. Get back in the

Andrew Wilsonkitchen. >> I have a master's in literature. >> But you have a BA too. >> I have a BA in English literature. >> Yeah. But requisites for those class were history, right? You had >> Yeah, of course. >> Yeah.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> What What is >> Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Um, >> I'm sorry I'm not intimately familiar with interracial crime statistics,

Andrew Wilson>> but I mean, do you see her point though when she's saying like, um, you're make if you make political commentary in the United States right now, we we live in a very racially charged environment and there's no way

Andrew Wilsonaround that. >> Yeah. And the fact of the matter is is that having honest conversations about interracial and racial issues has been very difficult for 15 years because progressives just def [ __ ] platform

Andrew Wilsonanybody who talked about it for years. They just deplatformed them. And so now there's there is a way in which people can conduct and have these conversations. And you find out that many of the political commentators who

Andrew Wilsonare leftists don't even [ __ ] know that this is the case. And so we we think we think to ourselves like how many [ __ ] people have been hornswaggled by these people don't even they don't even know they don't even

Andrew Wilsonknow how the intersectionality of people groups has created these massive problems and they don't even acknowledge it look at it nothing. And from my view it's like that's [ __ ] terrible and

Charlie (Feminist)it's horrible that that socially we have these societal issues and we can't do anything about them because we can't even [ __ ] talk about them. I would say I think that you can understand that poverty uh increases crime rates.

Charlie (Feminist)>> I agree with that. >> Absolutely. >> But I do believe again that it is uh more likely for a black person to be convicted of a crime versus a white

Charlie (Feminist)person for the same crime. So I'm going to have to stick with that. >> Okay. All right. We have another Q&A coming through. Play the assassinus is

SPEAKER_01donated $100. >> Can Charlie answer the question directly or does her collage education not allow for that? >> Would you like to respond to that?

Charlie (Feminist)>> I don't um I didn't study collage uh in college. Um [laughter] nor did I go to art school. >> Okay, that was good retort. I must >> You got him there. Get him there. Got to

Brian Atlasgive you credit. Uh we have PeaceCraft. Question for Charlie coming in here in just a moment. Flat Fabius. Thank you. >> Peacecraft donated $100.

SPEAKER_01Charlie, would you find it ethical to conquer the Simbarian people of Papular New Guinea due to their cultural practices? Also, Andy, the Mongols had a capital, Kakum. [clears throat] >> Okay, that's fair.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Wait, is that the [ __ ] warriors? >> Yeah. >> Apparently, they did stop doing that after they got in touch with people from the outside world. I don't know. Was it Christians or was it people from the

Andrew Wilson>> It was Christian. I've argued this with PeaceCraft before. It was Christian missionaries. Uh, and by the way, I brought the Mongols up just I was just trying to give quick examples of like if it is the case that you in any way,

Andrew Wilsonshape, or form settle in this according to definition two, uh, do you become a colonizer? It appears that you do, but even under that definition, it would have been colonizers, right? Peacecraft.

Andrew WilsonSo, but anyway, yeah, that's that that's his point is like um if you pull a question back up, Brian, I think I think what he's getting at there is like what would you do with them? What would you do with them if you couldn't change their practices? No, the Papa New Guinea

Andrew Wilsontribes. >> Oh, >> from the weird Well, I guess we'll never know the answer to that question because they changed their practices. So, >> they haven't changed them completely. It's only I think it's only one tribe that converted over because of

Charlie (Feminist)Christians and the other ones still keep that practice in place. gross. Well, um that's pretty gross. I would uh encourage that tribe to spread the practices because I think that there

Charlie (Feminist)could be resistance to um you know outsiders attempting to change them versus people from their own inroup, which is I think how you can kind of uh

Andrew Wilson>> But if you like just sailed across the [ __ ] warriors of Papa New Guinea as they were engaged in that practice and just like dropped the bomb and they were just gone, >> how does that make the world a worse place?

Charlie (Feminist)It's dropping a bomb on a bunch of people that were raised into harmful traditions that they perpetuate the cycle. I mean, each man that is, you know, uh >> Yeah. So, how I believe you >> like again, I think that you can I

Andrew Wilsontotally believe you. Listen, these are boys raised in demen. >> I totally believe you. I know. You're right. It's it's all based around cultural brainwashing and tradition that they're going to continue the practice of sticking their penis in in in those places with those adolescents.

Andrew Wilson>> Yes, it's bad. >> So, if we went right and we just dropped the bomb right there and they were gone, how's that make the world a worse place, Charlie? >> I think that killing a bunch of people is is wrong.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Yeah, that's not my question. >> Would it make the world a worse place? I mean, yeah, probably. >> How? I think that when you murder a bunch of people, the world is a worse place. I think that bad acts make the world a worse place.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Yeah, but I mean that's just question begging. You're just saying it's bad. It would make it worse cuz it would make it worse people to bomb uh to make it okay to bomb other countries on the basis of their practices. I mean, >> don't we do that all the time? Don't we

Charlie (Feminist)do that all the time? >> But wouldn't you wouldn't you agree that there are many countries out there and cultures that view American culture as like an abomination? Ed and would want to do something about us, right?

Andrew Wilson>> Yeah. >> Like would they not be just as >> And I really would like to stop importing people from those countries. >> Okay. Well, we don't really import too many of them.

Andrew Wilson>> Ah, yeah, we do. Middle East. >> Yeah, we import a lot of them. And we import people have savage cultural practices from Africa as well. And savage cultural practices from South America. We import tons of those, too.

Andrew WilsonCome from death cult cities and all sorts of things. Kinieras. >> No, it's not kinieras. That's Do you know how corrupt the government these governments in South America are due to the fact that they

Charlie (Feminist)>> I'm well aware but people can be from corrupt you know nations with corrupt governments. >> Yeah. How many of the come warriors do you want in your country? [laughter] >> I think that you could uh you know very

Charlie (Feminist)much help people like that. >> Wow. You're going to help them. This is also a very unique circumstance in which it is ingrained in their culture to little kids.

Andrew Wilson>> I don't know. It seems to me like the people group who are here >> that you're making them unnecessarily suffer by importing people groups they don't want here. >> Well, we're not importing them. >> We're importing them >> from Papa New Guinea. >> No, not No, no, no. Other people groups

Andrew Wilsonthat are problematic. >> Well, no one has practices as awful as that. >> Yeah. No, they >> and if they do, they're not allowed to do it. >> Yeah, they do. And they Well, how would you even know? They come up illegally. You won't even enforce the damn border. You people won't even enforce the border. They come up. You don't even

Andrew Wilsonknow who the [ __ ] coming through the border. You have no clue. >> You people don't enforce the border. >> Yeah, the progressives. They did everything possible not to enforce the border. >> The border. >> You voted for the people who were. Did you vote for Biden?

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. Yeah. You've said open border policies. >> Reported a lot of people >> cuz he let a bunch in. >> Still deported them. >> Holy [ __ ] Did you uh I don't know if we got a full

Brian Atlasanswer though for from PeaceCraft. Would you find it ethical to conquer that tribe from >> Yeah. >> PNG due to their cultural practices? >> So not dropping bombs necessarily, but

Charlie (Feminist)would it be ethical to conquer them to prevent the practice? >> What? >> No. To conquer? >> Yeah. >> No, I think that you can I don't think that that is how you actually enact change. I think that you would have to

Andrew Wilson>> What? [laughter] What? Okay, go ahead. I'm sorry. That's wild to me. Go ahead. >> Okay. >> I need one of those seltzers. >> Successful missionaries generally >> drink uh booze.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Okay. >> Successful missionaries do you think that successful missionaries generally go in and massacre a culture and say we're in charge of you now or do they >> carefully

Charlie (Feminist)change things from the inside? Because again, this is incredibly delicate. >> Sometimes >> these people have no conception that this could be wrong. And so I think you have to be careful. >> And sometimes missionaries get their brains bashed in and they get their

Andrew Wilsonheads put on spikes. >> Well, that's the kind of thing you have to worry about. I guess >> if we just send in the United States Army, the Marines, we just send in the Marines and the Marines come in and

Andrew Wilsonthey're like, "Ah, you know, we're going to take this whole like area over, okay? And um all you like chomos over here, if you do any chomo stuff, we're going to like take you out and the kids now,

Charlie (Feminist)we're going to give them a proper education and baths and food and stuff. >> I think that the people would uh resent the rule and be less likely to change their practices. I think that there would be violent rebellion. >> How would they be less How are they

Andrew Wilsongoing to violently How are the uh primitive stone age warriors of Papa New Guinea going to violently rebel against the United States Marine Corps? Maybe not. Maybe not at that point, but one day.

Charlie (Feminist)>> You think that they're going to be really resentful that they weren't allowed to molest >> kids anymore? Like what? >> They're not going to look at it from the traditional viewpoint, but what they're going to see is is, you know, foreigners

Charlie (Feminist)invading their nation and killing them. That's what they're going to see. Like again, it's just not if you want to, you know, uh affect real change, I think that you would have to make an effort

Andrew Wilsonagain to influence and educate. So what you're I just want to make sure that you understand the entailment of your position is that right now if it is the case that in Papa New Guinea kids are

Andrew Wilsongetting essayed >> young boys are getting essayed by adults who are making them eat their

Andrew Wilsonejaculate. I know >> every day for weeks on end that you that would be a preferable condition to you

Andrew Wilsonthan to send in a fully armed force which can separate those kids from those people that how could how could that possibly be better? How could that how could not colonizing

Charlie (Feminist)that possibly be better? >> They don't end up killing a bunch of people. >> They they just crossgenerationally essay little boys. Yes, I know. It's a cycle of abuse. It's horrible, but they can

Charlie (Feminist)recover. I mean, like, I don't know. I'm I'm assume Oops. I assume you're opposed to uh women doing Only Fans. >> Yeah. >> Okay. What if we got every woman doing Only Fans on an island and bombed it?

Andrew WilsonWould the world be a better place? >> Did I say bomb it right now? Yeah. But right now, we're not talking about that. Right now, we're talking about >> go in and kill them if they >> We're not saying go in and kill them. We're saying go in and colonize them.

Andrew WilsonThat wouldn't necessarily require a killing of any kind. It would require us to to completely destroy their cultural practices and integrate them into our social hierarchy. >> If a foreign nation came came to our

Charlie (Feminist)country and said, "Do as we say or we'll kill you?" >> Uh-huh. >> Do you think the American people would lie down and take it? Or do you think we would rebel? We would. That's what happens. But if you have an overwhelming force,

Andrew Wilson>> right, who comes in and you're you have primitive technology and you're doing what the Papa and New Guinea come warriors are doing, >> uh how could how could it possibly be justified not to do that if you have that overwhelming force? If you can't if

Andrew Wilsonyou could just go in there, save all those kids, right? Realonize so that it never happens again. How is that not preferable? I think it is literally again more

Charlie (Feminist)effective rather than through force like build a resentment, fear and rage in these people versus like help them. >> So if these people let's say hypothetically they they never want to

Andrew Wilsontake visitors again and they wall themselves off and they refuse, right? >> And but you can still see in there you have like your little recon plane and [ __ ] You can see that they're still doing these practices. >> Isn't there an island that's like that where no one's allowed to go? They

Andrew Wilsonkilled a missionary. Yeah, I know. I threw a spear. Yeah. Yeah, I'm I'm aware of that. But they're not doing the same things that these people are doing as far as we know. >> Well, no, we can I think we can see in and but I'm not sure. But anyway, but we

Charlie (Feminist)could we could see in there, >> right? And note that they're still doing Would you let them do that in perpetuity rather than colonize them? >> Uh I mean, okay, granted, uh you know,

Charlie (Feminist)sending people to aid and educate and getting people who are a part of the on your side. don't want anything to do with those people. >> My goodness. I don't know what I would do if I was in charge of that because I don't think that there's a situation

Andrew Wilsonwhere that happens. >> You just didn't. Wait a second. I just want to make sure I got this right. This situation is happening right now in Papa New Guinea. I believe that there's still one tribe of the come warriors there and

Charlie (Feminist)they're not taking visitors. >> Uh-huh. >> So, do we just perpetually let them do this to kids? I think that if you have encouraged the surrounding tribes to view that as disgusting and vile, I

Charlie (Feminist)think that they'll take care of it themselves by colonizing them. >> Uh, most likely. Yeah. Sure. >> But I don't think that we need to go in

Andrew Wilsonforeign outsiders. >> So coloniz completely different from them. >> What's the So So as long as the neighboring tribes colonize them, that's okay. We colonize them, not okay. I mean, do you see the difference in how

Andrew Wilsonthe resentment would build and what the long-term conseization here is actually okay either way >> in this extreme absurd ridiculous situation?

Andrew Wilson>> Well, it's not extreme absurd hypothetical like it is going on, right? Like it is happening. So, it's not like I'm talking about something that's not going on. >> Sure. Yeah. But again, I think that you can just let people figure it out

Andrew Wilsonthemselves. >> Should we colonize North Korea? No. >> No. >> No. >> Should South Korea colonize North Korea? >> I don't know. >> You don't know?

Andrew Wilson>> I don't want to help them if they try. >> Well, I mean, I just >> It'll be It'll be our money. >> I just want to let you >> into it. >> Yeah. Yeah. I just want to let you know though that the entailment of this is

Andrew Wilsonthat there are hundreds of thousands of women daily who are essayed in in North Korea in order to keep their birth rates artificially up. They draft them right in the military and they give sex squads

Charlie (Feminist)to the deer leader. Should the South Koreans colonize them? Western democracy? That's a western Yeah, it's a western style democracy. >> I'll leave that to the South Koreans.

Charlie (Feminist)Um, yeah, >> but South Korea also has its uh grave issues with women. So, I mean, I don't know, dude. >> Not the same way that the North does. It's not even the same universe.

Andrew Wilson>> I mean, the sex pest stuff is crazy. That's do do you realize and recognize the difference between you have sex pests in a country right who are problematic and gropy and gross and and

Andrew Wilsoneven a little bit rapey >> and then on the other side of that you have girls as young as 15, you know, actually younger 12 pulled right off the street drafted in the military so that they can be part of pleasure squads.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Are you sure that that's a real thing that's happening? Because that does sound like like I'm not saying North Korea is good. North Korea is an awful dictatorship. It's an awful dictatorship.

Andrew Wilson>> Can you can you can you pull up North Korean pleasure squads? >> But would you not agree that um you want me to read? >> Yeah, just read what it says about the

Andrew WilsonNorth Korean pleasure squads. >> Hold on.

Brian Atlas>> And the pleasure girls. It's absolutely horrific what they do to them. I have something from Wikipedia which is a bit biased but it's an unconfirmed collection of groups of

Brian Atlasapproximately 2,000 women and girls reportedly maintained by the leader of North Korea for the purpose of providing entertainment including that of a sexual nature for high-ranking workers workers

Andrew Wilsonparty of Korea officials and their families as well as occasionally distinguished guests >> and we have thousands of North Korean defectors maybe not as high as thousands but at least hundreds of North Korean defectors including high-ranking

Andrew Wilsonmilitary officials who've defected who have explained in great detail what's going on with the situation that like you know it's funny I gave a hypothetical one time about an SA cage

Andrew Wilsonright these people have actual essay cages and you think that they wouldn't benefit from the colonization like they they you don't think so you don't think that would be a benefit to that culture

Charlie (Feminist)>> generally I think people can sort themselves out >> okay >> I don't I I am concerned with changes in my nation, changes that I can affect.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Yeah, look, I we can find we can find an I don't really I don't know if I want to fund South Korea's war against North Korea. I'm really uninterested in it. I also don't want to fund the invasion of Papa New Guinea.

Andrew Wilson>> Look, I totally agree with you that it is the case that I don't think we should get involved in foreign affairs. My point wasn't to say that we should. My point rather was to point out that saying that colonization itself is

Andrew Wilsonsomehow bad in and of itself is absurd and silly. It makes no sense and it's very clear that that colonization has been extraordinarily helpful to many places of the world as far as their social order goes. And that's like I don't even know why that would be

Andrew Wilsonquestioned at this point. >> What places do you think about >> like the Ivory Coast? The Ivory Coast definitely has done way better under colonization in comparison to the rest of the region.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Okay. But the rest of the region was, you know, Africa was colonized and now they're doing pretty pretty bad. >> Which parts? >> Uh, well, the the greatest example I can think of is the is the Congo and what

Charlie (Feminist)happened there with was it was it the king of the Netherlands um or Belgium? Leopold. >> What what h what happened there in the Congo?

Charlie (Feminist)>> Like the the the enslavements and the murders and [ __ ] >> Yeah. Okay. Wait a second. Yeah. >> Like, and now the Congo is like like do you think that those people were doing better?

Andrew Wilson>> I'm not familiar with uh with the particular situation you're talking about in the Congo, like uh African history is not all that interesting to me. But I do know that the Ivory Coast, which was heavily colonized, has done

Andrew Wilsonextremely well due to colonization. That's for sure. >> Well, >> and I also can point out that the that I can actually give you a ton. I think that the Americas were made better through colonization.

Andrew WilsonNative Americans have a higher quality of life now than they did pre colonization. That's for sure. [laughter] >> I think everyone around the world does in most most most places. >> If you have access to modern technology,

Andrew Wilsonyou typically have a better >> Yeah. But all that modern technology, a lot of that modern technology came from North America. And because we colonized and had access to massive amounts of resources, we were able to reshape the

Andrew Wilsonentire world and the technology in it. So it's like it seems like the world has benefited from colonization. >> That it could only have happened through colonization. >> No, of course not. There's other ways that it could have potentially happened,

SPEAKER_01but not likely. >> We have to move on to the next question. >> Joe M0861 donated $200. >> Thank you, Joe. Brian, please ask both to answer and then look up the answers

Andrew Wilsonon Google. How many people died in the Spanish Inquisition and how long did it last? >> I want to say when I looked this up last time it was like uh 14 to,700 people total. It wasn't a huge amount.

Andrew Wilson>> Oh, I was going to say 500. >> I think it was 14,700 from the from the entirety of it, but I don't remember. >> And I think it lasted like a decade. I want to say it wasn't long. It wasn't a

Brian Atlaslong time period. According to uh Google AI, the Spanish Inquisition

Brian Atlaslasted for over 350 years, 1478 to 1834 with its final abolition. And there

Brian Atlasseems to be records indicate around 826 executions in person, 778 in FG, but another estimate says executions between

Brian Atlas1,480 and 1,530. >> Yeah. Okay. So, between 1400 and 1700. I was pretty close. >> All right. We have Pasty George here

SPEAKER_01coming in. >> A message from the government of Canada. Pasty George donated $2004. Right, >> Andrew, I think I understand what you

SPEAKER_01are trying to say. In the end, it was humans colonizing other humans. In Canada, many indigenous tribes fought one another for territories and hunting grounds.

Andrew Wilson>> Yeah, I'm just saying. Exactly. So, I'm just saying that the very this idea I think that the idea is being utilized specifically by leftist progressives, especially ones who are college

Andrew Wilsoneducated. They use the term colonizer specifically as a disparagement on modern white men. That's what I think. And I I've seen it now so many times. And so as the Crucible audience, it's

Andrew Wilsonalmost it almost seems impossible for me to see it any other way. And so my point is just to point out like everybody colonized [ __ ] everybody including the Native Americans. by the very

Andrew Wilsondefinition of what colonization is uh as I demonstrated multiple times. But even if we go back to the beginning where there's a landbridge they were they they yeah they definitely colonized each other constantly. So it's like you

Andrew Wilsoncolonized the colonizer, you stole from the thief, you murdered the murderers. It's like at at what point do we have a moral equivalency here? If it makes you feel any better, uh, I took a course in

Charlie (Feminist)my undergrad taught by an indigenous professor who, um, uh, made us read books specifically on the Creek tribe, which included their long history of slavery. So,

SPEAKER_01>> all right, we have a chat here from uh, Pat. >> Pat donated $99. >> Thank you, Pat. >> Great debate, Charlie. Words can have multiple definitions and migrate over time. You are brainwashed into

SPEAKER_01selectively only accepting one definition to push an ideological message that benefits some. >> See, that's what I think I think Pat's right. Like that's what that's what I think we've been able to infer from

Andrew Wilsonthis. That's what I inferred from it. It's like nope. That ideological message. It's really that only that one definition that matters because that's the definition that reinforces the worldview.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Would you like to respond to Andrew or the question? I don't think Pat or Andrew is going to believe me when I say

Charlie (Feminist)I just feel strongly that a colony requires a uh in its common usage is going to require a foreign government to

Andrew Wilsonhave jurisdiction over it. That is just again in common usage that is that is how the word is used. But it's just such a it's just such an appeal to emotion, especially when you say like you feel

Andrew Wilsonthat that is the case when we had a definition for it >> any other way. >> Okay. Well, let me just ask you this. Would you reject definition two that we gave you for colony? Would you reject it?

Charlie (Feminist)>> Like you can you can just not accept the definition as being true? Um I wouldn't reject it um completely but I would say that I think that it is uh there are

Charlie (Feminist)certainly much better words to describe that phenomenon which is like settling settler >> like again because colony just has a very strong implication of foreign government in charge of that

Charlie (Feminist)>> like like again I just feel like they are fundamentally uh different especially when we're talking about the 13 colonies because that's like the whole point of the war of independence is that we would our own freedom and no longer be colonies but be

Andrew Wilson>> but I mean there was colonies that had nothing to do with the 13 colonies obviously. >> Yeah, of course. >> Yeah. So like you just you continuously bring it back to that because it seems

Andrew Wilsonto reinforce your worldview that uh you want you need this definition to be true so that your prism of history is true. >> Well, I'm an American informed by American history, I guess, is all I can say.

Andrew Wilson>> Yeah. Well, I mean that American history was British history, too, right? [laughter] >> Sure. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Because yeah, there were British history, British and French and Spanish. >> But anyway, the point is is like yeah, it just seems like there's a bias

Charlie (Feminist)operation there. That's all I'm saying. >> I won't deny that. Yes. Many many many people on the left use colonizer in a negative way, >> including you. >> I have used it before in a negative way when I'm referring to negative things.

Charlie (Feminist)And I will say that yes, it is it has been used in in ways that I think are disingenuous. >> Bees donated $100

SPEAKER_01How else could the vast natural and human potential of the Americas have been organized into globally influential, technologically advanced societies without the disruptive but ultimately transformat?

Andrew Wilson>> It couldn't have like I I I can concede that it could be logically possible that it could have. >> I mean I think that >> it's not likely.

Charlie (Feminist)>> I mean it's not like Europe itself all technological innovation sprung just from Europe. like we very much borrowed from like the Middle East and China when it came to like gunpowder and stuff like I

Andrew Wilson>> No, no, no. >> I think without the um >> No, no, no, no, no, no. First of all, like if you talk about the origin of a

Andrew Wilsonchemical or chemical compound or in this case a powder compound of gunpowder, >> the pro probably [ __ ] I don't know. I don't even want to hazard a guess. I

Andrew Wilsonwould guess that 99% of all technology based around gunpowder >> is has been European. >> Sure. Yeah. >> Probably 99% or I mean maybe maybe like

Andrew Wilson99.9 but I mean the innovations around gunpowder from Europeans [ __ ] it's it's insane. It's incredible. Oh, >> I mean, I'd want to read up on that, but

Charlie (Feminist)I also think it's like [sighs and gasps] unfortunately we did bring disease to the Americas, which I think would have really heavily impacted our ability to trade properly, but um

Charlie (Feminist)>> because of animal husbandry. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Um I think that it is possible. Well, and also we had uh Europeans had immunities built up that Native Americans didn't

Andrew Wilson>> because of animal because of animal husbandry. Um we could have traded, we could have you know passed the technology on. >> We did trade with many tribes for many

Andrew Wilsonyears and they became very upset with us over various different things including >> um well I mean that's a that's a long complex history. But the point is is that

Andrew Wilson>> it is not the case that we I mean it it is the case that we colonize colonizers. That is the case. And that's why that's why I guess that's what frustrates me is I know again I guess we're circling but

Andrew WilsonI know that it's an ant I know it's anti-white rhetoric. I've seen it now so many times that I just know it is um I think I can easily demonstrate it is by putting the person who calls me the colonizer to the question and we see very quickly that it's design. It's like

Andrew Wilsonwho have I colonized? Nobody. But you're the beneficiary of colonizers. So for your call who are you to tell me that we can't immigrate to this country colonizer? That's how it's used isn't it? It's used as who are you to

Andrew Wilsontell me who can immigrate into your nation? You're you're a colonizer. You just decided you're the conqueror. So if you get conquered, you [ __ ] deserve it. Isn't that how it's being used? >> Hispanic guy was using it in that >> How does anybody use it on the left

Andrew Wilsonexcept that way? Who are you colonizer to tell people that they can't immigrate to this nation? Like that's what it's mostly used for when you're calling someone a colonizer that they have no justification to say who can come in and

Charlie (Feminist)out of their nation because they're colonizers. I think it's just trying to um remind people that they were once immigrants, too. Because I do think that uh again, it's not like all white people

Charlie (Feminist)showed up at once and we all decided, yes, we're the same. We're culturally the exact same. It was a long difficult process of uh you know, assimilation. >> Look, I agree that there have been many

Andrew Wilsonwaves of of migration to various nations. Okay. But I also think that the peoples of these nations eventually are going to be able to determine what they want their demographics to look like,

Andrew Wilsonwhich Japan has done. For instance, they decided they were pumping in uh immigrants in order to offset the fact that their birth rate was massively declining. And most recently, they their president came out and said, "We're not

Andrew Wilsongoing to do that anymore. If the birth rate declines, so be it. I don't care." And they get to like the people themselves get to control the demographics. >> They can do that. And then their elderly will rot and die alone in their homes

Charlie (Feminist)when the uh you know the population has more old people than they do young people. >> Or they'll create a renaissance for incentives to create young people. >> Well, they'd have to change their work culture to do that. And that's not likely. >> Well, it's likely if you start running

SPEAKER_01out of people. >> Yeah, I guess. Um >> Hassan Per is not Zeus donated $100. Charlie heard a rumor you and Hassan had

SPEAKER_01a little trrist. Is it true? If not, would you date the shitlib? What do you think about the whole dog shock thing?

Charlie (Feminist)>> I've never spoken to Hassan in my life and I'm not a fan of his. Uh I've never spoken to Hassan in my life and I'm not a fan of his. Um I

Brian Atlas>> would you date him? >> No. No. >> Dog shock thing. What What do you think about the whole >> the dog collar shock thing? >> That thing? Yeah. Um,

Charlie (Feminist)I don't want to say anything because I do not want this to be clipped by weird people and spread around. That is a discourse I am um just wholly uh uninterested in. I don't Destiny Hassan

Charlie (Feminist)and Ethan Klein could do the most evil things in the world and I wouldn't comment on it because I have no interest in being brought into that insanity. Wait, you'll talk about the [ __ ] warriors of Pap you want to talk about? >> Well, the [ __ ] warriors don't the [ __ ]

Charlie (Feminist)warriors don't have an online mob. They don't have an online mob of people to attack me. Those three do. I'm just I'm not going to comment. I don't want to I don't want to be involved. >> Okay. I don't know. The crucible's tangled with all of them. We do pretty

SPEAKER_01well. >> XD donated $100 their audience. If we were to follow a progressive evolutionary or anthropological history of humans, wouldn't that mean everyone is just a colonizer, which implies that you just

Charlie (Feminist)use it as a slur? >> That's a great point. >> Okay. Yes, human beings have uh moved around um historically all through all through history, human beings have moved around, moved into new places. Human

Charlie (Feminist)beings have been violent and awful and evil to each other. We have committed uh atrocities um unknown. But I do believe that the colonization of the Americas

Charlie (Feminist)was the most extensive uh and advanced colonization due to um the technology that we had available at the time. I

Charlie (Feminist)don't think anyone would disagree with that that it was uh very effective in a way because of technology that I think most of the world had not yet seen

SPEAKER_01before. Would that agree disagree? Okay, we have Elusive Enigma. Not sure.

SPEAKER_01>> Elusive Enigma donated $100. With all of the talk about colonizing, what are your guys thoughts about voluntary segregation like the RTL project? Would it be okay if whites get

SPEAKER_01together and focus solely on themselves and people? >> I mean, what are white concerns and who are we counting as white people?

Andrew WilsonSo I think that the project that he's talking about, if I remember correctly, >> they're focusing on people who have specifically Western European blood

Andrew Wilson>> and it excludes uh people who they don't consider to be white. This includes Jewish people and it includes some Eastern Slavic people. >> Better include Italians. >> I'm not sure if they included Italians

Andrew Wilsonas being white or non-white. But whatever, however they chopped up the criteria. >> Mhm. >> The point of the question is asking if you believe that people have self-determination, autonomy, and can

Andrew Wilsonmake uh exclusive groups and live only among those exclusive groups excluding other people or not. >> I think you can do that if you want, but I probably wouldn't want to hang around

Charlie (Feminist)those people. You can if you want to have a little commune, do it. I' I've seen it done. Well, it wouldn't be a commune >> or like a little area where it's only you guys. Like I guess you could do >> What if it be What if it was a large

Charlie (Feminist)area like I don't know half of a state? >> I think it would be difficult to get that many people together that do that. And >> do you have any objection to it? >> They could.

Charlie (Feminist)I can't articulate any opposition to it right now, but I don't like it. I don't even think people of like black people, Hispanic people, Asian people, I don't even think that they should do that. I

Charlie (Feminist)think that that's that's weird. >> So like false forced integration should be the order of the day. I mean, I guess if people are just

Charlie (Feminist)really, really, really interested in only living around their race, um, sure, they could all get together with a bunch of people and say, "Hey, we're all going to buy houses here and buy land here." And hopefully they could do it,

Charlie (Feminist)>> but they don't want to just do that. They want to do that and then exclude other people from coming in. >> Um, I think you'd have to be very careful about how you did it because there are housing laws, I think, housing

Charlie (Feminist)discrimination laws. Um, but places do that all the time. There's plenty of neighborhoods that will uh intentionally. >> So, you don't have any actual objections to it. >> I would find those people to be morally

Charlie (Feminist)reprehensible >> based on what what are they doing that's morally wrong? >> I think that uh isolating yourself is um >> morally reprehensible. >> Yeah, I think it's backwards. >> It's morally reprehensible to isolate

Charlie (Feminist)yourself. [laughter] >> I had for a time. So the Papa New Guinea people, they're just morally reprehensible because they isolate themselves. >> I think if you've lived in a very uh

Charlie (Feminist)diverse society that is integrated and then you decide you want to isolate yourself. Listen, I visited women's land once and I thought that those people

Charlie (Feminist)were deranged. I thought it was deranged to, you know, uh be like, "Hey, only lesbians here only forever." Cuz I just thought it was weird. I thought it was

Charlie (Feminist)weird. I don't think it's I feel like it's hiding from reality. So that's how I feel about it. >> Yeah, but that's a different statement saying it's weird and it's morally reprehensible. >> I found that morally I did I found it morally reprehensible.

Andrew Wilson>> Well, I find lesbians morally reprehensible, but I don't understand how >> Well, I didn't think they were morally reprehensible. >> Right. I know. I know. That's why I'm saying like I don't understand though

Andrew Wilsonwhere you get from people make their own social orders and their own hierarchies and they decide that they only want to live among one people group. What about that is actually morally reprehensible

Charlie (Feminist)>> because it would necessitate that they have hateful views about other people. Even if it's people of color doing it, they probably dislike and distrust uh other races.

Charlie (Feminist)What do you think hate means? >> To strongly dislike. To have intense prejudice towards. >> Okay. So, strongly dislike. >> Yes. I I don't know how you would define hate.

Andrew Wilson>> I think strongly dislike seems reasonable to me. So, strongly dislike means hate. So, couldn't you want to do this because you just strongly like those people and but don't strongly

Charlie (Feminist)dislike any other people? >> White people aren't all the same. Black people aren't all the same. I'm not saying that they are. >> I mean, but again, if you are talking about such a large broad group, like what do I I'm I'm from Northern

Andrew WilsonCalifornia. >> If you had a preference to live among a single people group, which I assume you have preferences to live among people groups, your family, extended family, a dog, I don't I don't whatever it is, you

Andrew Wilsonhave preferences for that. If if somebody had a preference that they wanted to live in whites only or blacks only community, that was their preference. Why does that entail that there's hatred? I don't even understand

Charlie (Feminist)that. >> I think that it uh I would describe it as biological and race essentialism in the sense that because someone is of a certain race, they act the same way. I feel that I have more in common

Andrew Wilson>> there. There's wait a second >> that you have more >> there's no biological essentialism there. >> The idea is not uh you're only going to act this way because you're white, right? But you could make a

Andrew Wilsondetermination on a group of people that on average you act a different way than another group of people. You could at least do that, right? Without giving the caveat or the monolith that all of them

Charlie (Feminist)uh operate this way, >> I guess. But you just really didn't like I am also from California is a very diverse state and while I'm from a very

Charlie (Feminist)red part of California originally, I still feel that the Hispanic kids I grew up with I have a lot more in common culturally with than like a white person from the South. >> I'm not disputing it.

Andrew Wilson>> Those are people more like me. Even if they look different. >> I totally get it. But that really doesn't answer to the question of strongly dislike. Why can't you strongly like one group and not strongly dislike

Andrew Wilsonanother? Like if I strongly if I strongly like white people, I have some preference for it. All right. >> Why would that entail that I strongly dislike anybody else just because I strongly like >> Do you like Do you strongly like white

Charlie (Feminist)people? >> Yeah, sure. >> What about white people? >> Yeah. >> But like what about white people? >> Oh, I don't know. It's just a preference I have. Sure. But like if you had to think about like what you really like

Charlie (Feminist)about white people, like okay, I have a strong like for LGBT people. Um, and if you were to ask me why I like them, I would say, >> isn't it because you're you're one of

Andrew Wilsonthem? >> Yes. But also more fun. Uh, >> but but but also >> Mhm. >> because you're one of them. >> Yes. They understand me more, but also

Andrew Wilsonthey're more fun. Ah, >> so >> that doesn't change the fact that your best friend is a straight man >> and they understand you more and that's why you like them. It's part of the preference why you like them. Why

Charlie (Feminist)wouldn't you understand that with other people's preferences with >> because I also have plenty of straight friends who understand me and believing that other LGBT people strongly like

Andrew WilsonLGBTQ people because they're like you and understand you got it. Why would that not be the case for people with racial preferences? >> A heterosexual man. >> So,

Andrew Wilson>> and he understands me just fine. >> Yeah. So, if a if white people have they have friends who are black, too. Doesn't mean Yeah. What does that have to do with if they strongly like white people

Andrew Wilson>> and like why why the same reason you gave her strongly liking LGBTQ people? >> No, you you didn't just say fun. Don't gaslight me again, Charlie. You said because they understand me. You said,

Charlie (Feminist)"Cuz they understand me and they're like me." >> Okay, listen. >> Hang on, Charlie. Can you admit that you said >> cuz they understand me and they're like me. >> Yes, but I can I can sacrifice understand me as long as they're fun.

Charlie (Feminist)For the first time in my life about a year ago, I had >> Hold on. Listen, I had a primarily heterosexual friend group who did not understand me. >> And the reason I was like, "Wow, actually this sucks." is not because

Andrew Wilsonthey didn't understand me, but because they were boring. And that's why I did it because again, I can sacrifice not being understood as long as someone's a good time. >> Okay. So, help me out here. Let's pretend that you have a black child who's raised by a white parents,

Andrew Wilson>> okay? >> Okay. And he gets to where he's about 14, >> okay? And he finds his biological parents, okay? And they were like lost at sea or some [ __ ] And he goes to his

Andrew Wilsonhis parents, his white parents, and he says, "Look, I want to go live with my parents and other black people, because I have a preference for them. I feel far

Charlie (Feminist)more comfortable around them than I do around white people." Is he doing something morally reprehensible? >> Um, [snorts] I would be curious about uh his actual

Andrew Wilsoncomfort. >> He just feels better around him. He feels like they understand him more and like him and and he likes him more. He just likes him. >> I can imagine someone wanting to for a

Charlie (Feminist)time go live around a lot of people like that and get to to know them. But I can't imagine that this person would decide to then spurn all of his, you know, his parents. >> Wait, where was that ever in there? He

Andrew Wilsondidn't spurn him. He just said he'd prefer to live over here. It doesn't mean he's not going to see him or talk to him or anything like that. He just would prefer to live over here. But we build communities with the people we live by. >> Yeah. I know. But can you can you engage with this for a second?

Charlie (Feminist)>> Sure. >> Okay. So, >> what is he doing that's morally reprehensible here? >> Well, we're also talking about a young adopted child who has probably been living with like the weirdness of being raised culturally white while being treated as black.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Absolutely. So, I think that that changes things a little bit versus someone who is uh, you know, white, raised white, and has no interest in

Andrew Wilsonbeing around other races. I would be um I would find that person to be >> No, no, no. Weird. >> Yeah. Why? So, do you see how you keep

Andrew Wilsonsmuggling little sneaky [ __ ] in there? like he said uh they they want to be among whites but not among any other races ever or something like this. It's

Andrew Wilsonlike that none of that was said. It's the preference of who you want to live near and who you want to live among does not you still haven't actually answered this and you seem to be very evasive

Andrew Wilsonabout it when I continuously ask you about it. Mhm. >> What actually makes the same thing that you would say that black kid is not um he doesn't strongly hate his white parents. He doesn't strongly hate white

Andrew Wilsonpeople. He doesn't have strongly dislike them. Why would his strong like for being around black people entail that he had a strong dislike for white people? >> Because I think that diversity is

Andrew Wilsonstrength. I think it's good. I think diversity is good. Diversity >> I'm just going to grant it. Diversity is Diversity is our strength. Yay. >> You build community with the people that you live around. >> Do Yeah, but do you understand how you're not answering the question again?

Andrew WilsonLike >> what would be wrong with it? >> No. No, that's not my question. Okay, so I'm going to ask the question again. I know you >> just want to live around white people. >> No, that's not my question. That's not my question. >> Okay, go ahead.

Andrew Wilson>> So you you keep saying >> that if you like them >> you like this group, that means you strongly dislike this one. >> Mhm. How do we get to this strong dis

Andrew WilsonHow does me liking this group mean that I strongly dislike this group? How is how does that work? >> Because you would have assumptions about them that make you not want to live with them. >> That doesn't mean you dislike them.

Andrew Wilson>> Essentializing them into all one type of of person and behavior. >> You know, I have >> on the basis of their race, which I don't think is >> I have a sister and she's really [ __ ] annoying. Okay, she really Well, she's not. She's kind She can be [ __ ]

Charlie (Feminist)annoying and I wouldn't want to live with her. Yeah, that's >> Does that mean I strongly dislike her? >> Would you never live with anyone who's ever been a sister in their entire life?

Charlie (Feminist)Does your wife have siblings? >> Yeah, I wouldn't live with them either. >> Okay. Yeah, but she is a sister. >> Yeah, but what does it have to do with anything? >> Because the the point is it's not just your sister is kind of annoying

Charlie (Feminist)sometimes, >> right? >> It's because of who she is. >> So, I have a preference to not live around her, right? It's because of who she is as a person, not the uh immutable quality of being your sister. >> Yeah. But even if it was the case,

Andrew Wilson>> even if I just grant this, >> how would that infer that I disliked anybody anybody else because I had a preference to live with this group? How could how

Andrew Wilsondo we get from that to that means you dislike this group or have a strong dislike for them? You could like them just fine, just not want to live with them, right? I think that isn't that the not in my

Charlie (Feminist)backyard kind of dealio is like the uh the hypocrisy of being like, "Yeah, I'll tolerate them, but I don't want them in my backyard. I don't want them near me." You know, like I just don't think that I

Charlie (Feminist)think that that's I think it's racist. I don't like it. Um but to be honest, I would prefer people like that do go off and live in their own communities cuz I don't want to be around them. >> Cuz you dislike them. >> Yes.

Andrew Wilson>> Okay. See, that's >> the on the basis weirdness about race. >> Now, here we've gotten to it. I do believe this that you strongly dislike those people who want to go live with like an all-white or all black community

Andrew Wilsonor whatever. I agree that you dislike them. Probably lame. >> The problem is is like you have not made an argument that would be convincing to anybody on planet Earth that they dislike you. >> I agree that you dislike them. That I agree with.

Charlie (Feminist)>> That they dislike me. >> Yeah. >> I'm white. Why would they hate me? >> Exactly. Why would they hate you? >> I'm white. They're also white. They want to live around the white people. >> They don't hate. Okay. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Why wouldn't people who you hate hate you?

Andrew Wilson>> What? >> Why wouldn't people who you hate hate you? Wouldn't people you hate hate you? >> Oh, I mean, if I said I hate you, but like look, >> you just said that you have strong dislikes for them. >> But I don't think that any of those people that you claimed that you would

Andrew Wilsonhave a strong dislike for would say that they had any feelings about you one way or the other. >> Yeah, I don't think that they would either because I'm Caucasian. I think that they would if they saw me walking down their all white If you were Hispanic right now, why would that why would what would change

Andrew Wilsonhere? What would change if they were like, I don't have any opinions about her one way or the other. I wish her a great life. >> It's because if I they wouldn't allow me to live next door to them if I was Hispanic.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Well, [laughter] that's true. I guess >> it's like not wanting to be around people. It's not wanting people in your proximity. It's the same. >> That doesn't mean that they hate you, though. That's where I That's where I

Charlie (Feminist)can't get to. >> It means that they maybe they don't like in their heart just feel a lot of rage and anger towards me, but it means that they're not really about who I am.

Charlie (Feminist)They're not really they they uh are uncomfortable being around me. They're uncomfortable with me being next to them. >> Okay, let me let me Yeah, let me just finish this off with this because maybe

Andrew Wilsonmaybe we can tie it off finally. I feel like we're going around circles. Yeah. >> So, let's try not to go around circles and finish it. So, Do you believe that when we talk about attraction, >> we're not just talking about sexual attraction, that we have attractions to people?

Andrew Wilson>> Sure. Yes. >> Okay. And um do you think that people should be allowed to have preferences in what they're attracted to? They're not attracted to black people. They're not attracted to white people. They're not attracted to Hispanic people.

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