Andrew Wilson vs. Charlie (Feminist, Leftist) | Rachel Wilson CRASHES Show?! | Whatever Debates #22

Date: 2025-11-09

Duration: 6h 17m

Guests

Brian Atlas

CCharlie (Feminist)>

AAndrew Wilson >

RRachel Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00Andrew Wilson(host)

SPEAKER_03Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_04Rachel Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_05Charlie (Feminist)(guest)

Key Moments

IntroBrian introduces Andrew Wilson vs Charlie debate on feminism

Key MomentAndrew: women voting on war while men die is 'fundamental injustice'

Key MomentBureau of Justice Statistics on interracial crime read aloud

Key MomentCharlie admits she doesn't know what 'per capita' means

Key MomentRachel Wilson crashes debate by phone after Charlie attacked her family

ControversyCharlie: Rachel's life 'would have been better spent' if she aborted her children

Key MomentCharlie reveals she was on testosterone for 10 years (FTMF detransitioner)

AgreementAndrew and Charlie bond over Tolkien and Lord of the Rings

Topics Discussed

COVID Lockdowns vs Feminist Choice

Andrew challenges Charlie: supported lockdowns but supports pro-choice. Inconsistency.

Women Voting / Draft

Andrew: unjust that women vote on war when men bear combat risk.

Abortion and Birth Control

Charlie argues abortion essential for economic equality.

Interracial Crime Statistics

Andrew presents DOJ stats. Charlie contests conviction reliability.

Colonialism and Anti-White Rhetoric

Extended debate on 'colonizer' definition.

Rachel Wilson Crashes Debate

Rachel calls in after Charlie's comments about her children.

LOTR and Tolkien

Post-debate friendly exchange on Tolkien, Christian allegory.

Transcript

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Brian AtlasWelcome to a debate edition of the Whatever podcast coming to you live from Santa Barbara, California. I'm your host, Brian Atlas. A few quick announcements before the show begins. This podcast is viewer supported, so

Brian Atlasplease consider donating through Streamlabs. at streamlabs.com/ whatever. TTS is $200 and up. There will be no instant TTS. TTS will come in in batches

Brian Atlasat various breaks throughout the debate. You can see the description for all triggers in full details. Without further ado, I'm joined today by Andrew

Brian AtlasWilson, host of The Crucible. He is a blood sports debater and political commentator. Also joining us today is

Brian AtlasCharlie. She received a master's degree in fant fantasy literature from the University of Glasgow and a BA in English from California State

Brian AtlasUniversity, Sacramento. She's a political social commentator and content creator. The topic today is feminism. I want a good clean debate, no

Brian Atlasinterrupting. I need very good discipline on this. I will allow for some slight interrupting as is normal in conversation, but excessive or repeated

Brian Atlasinterrupting will first result in a verbal warning, excuse [clears throat] me, followed by a yellow card, which mutes you for one minute or until your

Brian Atlasopponent yields their time. If this continues, it'll be followed by a red card, which mutes you for three minutes until or until your opponent yields

Brian Atlastheir time. Hopefully that won't be necessary. There are no opening statements. Straight to open convo. Let's get it on.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Cool. Okay. Um I think first we ought to agree on some definitions. Uh so feminism um the prompt was is feminism good for society? Uh the

Charlie (Feminist)definition I have here is from the Oxford English dictionary. feminism, advocacy of equality of the sexes, and the establishment of the political, social, and economic rights of the female sex. Are we in agreement on that?

Andrew Wilson>> No. >> Okay. What's your definition of feminism? >> Feminism is the movement towards egalitarian systems um and the de deconstruction and removal of the patriarchy.

Andrew Wilson>> Okay. >> So, it's my belief that feminism cannot operate without an oppressor oppressed class worldview. And if there's an oppressor class, that oppressor class

Charlie (Feminist)has to be the patriarchy because who else could it be? >> I think that that's fair, but I do want to, you know, stipulate that like I I

Andrew Wilsonthink that men are also >> uh they also benefit from feminism and also oppressed under patriarchy. Is that is that >> Yeah, I understand. Uh so your definition would in you don't disagree

Andrew Wilsonwith my definition. You're just clarifying a position on top of it which is that you think there is a patriarchy. It's just that it's also oppressive or beneficial to men as well or I'm sorry oppressive to men as well. Yes.

Andrew Wilson>> Yeah. Okay. >> So, can we largely agree then that feminism is the an egalitarian movement which uh focuses on equity, egalitarianism, and the removal of patriarchy.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Mhm. >> Okay. So, then I think we got the definition down there pretty well. >> Oh, okay. Um, and then society. I mean, I think this one is pretty obvious, but uh, society,

Charlie (Feminist)this is from uh, Miriam Webster. A community, nation, or broad grouping of people having common traditions, institutions, and collective activities and interests. When I say society, what

Charlie (Feminist)I'm going to be referring to mainly is the United States. I'm going to refer to my country, my nation. Yeah. >> Is that acceptable? >> Sure. Yeah. >> Okay. So, um, I don't have any issues

Charlie (Feminist)with that definition. >> Cool. All right. Um, and then I guess, uh, gosh, I really don't want to get into another meta ethics debate, but >> about the word good. >> Oh, what is good? Yes. What makes something good?

Andrew Wilson>> So, when we're talking about good here, why don't we just stick with outcomes which are preferable to most people? >> Okay. >> Does that sound reasonable? >> Yes. Absolutely. >> So, outcomes which are preferable to

Andrew Wilsonmost people for the good. So, I understand that me, you and I have different viewpoints on what good good is, but in like the good faith of not trying to bog the conversation down into

Andrew Wilson3 hours of metaethical jumping up and down, um I'm fine with that, too. >> Sure. Awesome. >> So, I think we have our our definitions down pretty well. >> Cool. Okay.

Charlie (Feminist)>> So, I'll let you open with whatever you want to say. >> All right. So, I guess we didn't technically have opening statements, so I suppose I will ramble. Um, feminism is good for society because a society that

Charlie (Feminist)allows people the freedom to choose the life that they wish uh is a happier society. Um, I believe that hierarchies

Charlie (Feminist)uh divide and weaken us. >> Okay. So the crux of your argument for feminism is that it's good because it allows for more choice.

Andrew Wilson>> Yes. >> Is that the crux? Am I getting that right? >> I would I would say so. >> Okay. I don't want to straw man it. So if you want to think about it for a second and make sure um that that's what you mean by it or if there's any

Charlie (Feminist)addendums that you want to give to it. >> I think uh freedom of of choice and uh egalitarianism. >> Freedom of choice and egalitarianism. Okay.

Andrew WilsonAll right. Choice egalitarianism.

Andrew WilsonNow, uh, Charlie, were you um an advocate of the C19 lockdowns? >> CO 19 lockdowns. Um,

Charlie (Feminist)yes, I would I would say so, but my stepfather is diabetic, so I had a personal stake in it. >> Um, because I did not want him to, you know, as a diabetic, he was more at risk. >> Can you tell me how that helped with

Charlie (Feminist)freedom of choice? >> How that helped with freedom of choice? >> The lockdowns because the lockdowns seem to me, so I kind of give you my take.

Andrew WilsonWhen I think of like a fascist dystopia, I think about things like checkpoints, statemandated garments, state removing

Andrew Wilsonmedia, independent media, uh, in order to have state messaging. I think of those types of things. And those were all the things that I saw during the lockdowns from the side of the leftist progressive and the feminist side. And

Andrew Wilsonthey all seem to be in pretty good unison there. And it seems like all that did was limit choice. And so I wonder if there's not a contradiction in your worldview where at the same time you

Andrew Wilsonlove feminism because it expands choice but at the same time supported lockdowns which definitely limited them. >> I think that if we are going to you know

Charlie (Feminist)consider something being good on the basis of creating the most amount of good possible. I think that uh >> you mean the most amount of best outcomes possible?

Charlie (Feminist)>> Yes. Yes. Most amount of best possible outcomes. I do believe that for a specific period of time, it was necessary to have everyone including

Charlie (Feminist)government officials uh you know do their best to not spread CO 19 um until we could mitigate the the dangers. Um I

Charlie (Feminist)think that in some cases uh I I understand that many people grew very frustrated very quickly after some time. Um but I do think that in cases of emergency

Charlie (Feminist)when I would when it comes down to freedom of choice we should have freedom of choice unless you are making decisions that uh

Andrew Wilsonwould um inhibit the freedom of choice that others have. >> Isn't that a paradox? How so? >> So, isn't isn't this kind of the idea of

Andrew Wilsonthe paradox of tolerance? We should tolerate everything except intolerance. Everyone has the freedom of choice except to uh to uh inflict, you know, some type of damage on other people's

Andrew Wilsonchoices. It's a Isn't it kind of paradoxical? So in other words, I guess the thing that's interesting about this this view is that you're telling me that limiting choice is necessary

Charlie (Feminist)>> for good outcomes. >> Uh I think in very very very extreme circumstances such as a uh a a plague. >> Well, that's not a plague, right? It was just a virus.

Andrew Wilson>> It's a virus, but I mean a lot of people were dying. >> Very few I mean very few people total were dying, right? It was pretty freaky. >> Yeah. I mean, it was mostly like fat people and really old people who were

Charlie (Feminist)dying. >> I think that even fat people and old people um I would prefer them to not die from viruses if possible. >> So, how how much freedom of mind can you

Andrew Wilsontake in order to make sure that uh that fatty gets to live? How much of my freedom do you get to take to do that? How much of my freedom to walk into a

Andrew Wilsonstore without wearing my government sponsored mandated garment around my face that marks me as acceptable? Is that does that sound does that sound

Charlie (Feminist)like freedom to you or does that sound like some other kind of ism that you guys would normally call it? I think that if there is an insane infectious

Charlie (Feminist)disease that uh you know doctors and scientists and professionals don't necessarily understand at the time raging around. I would say that uh you

Charlie (Feminist)possibly infecting those around you and putting their lives at risk is uh I I do think a time in which you know freedom of of choice

Charlie (Feminist)should unfortunately be limited. For instance, it's like, you know, like when someone is checked for weapons, like that is technically removing a freedom of choice if we don't allow someone to

Charlie (Feminist)enter a building with weapons. Um, but it's good because if they have weapons, they could use it to permanently uh eliminate someone's freedom of choice. >> Yeah. But I guess this is what's

Andrew Wilsoninteresting to me is that um this is your view. Your view is that feminism is good because it expands choice. >> Mhm. >> Right. And then at the same in the same

Andrew Wilsonbreath you say the coh 19 lockdowns are good because they limit choice. And so it just seems like limiting choice to you is fine as long as it proves or provides for good outcomes.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Well, as long as there's good outcomes, we can limit choice. >> My rebuttal to that would be the co lockdowns were temporary uh emergency measures. Um, when I talk about feminism

Charlie (Feminist)giving people freedom of choice, uh, there was a a time in this country where women's career options were limited. Um, had limited rights and freedoms. Uh, and

Andrew Wilsonnow they do not. So, >> well, why would that matter if the outcomes were better? Cuz what you're saying to me, you what you just got done saying to me is that you're fine with limiting choice as long as it's for the greater good and the outcomes from your

Andrew Wilsonview are better. The outcomes >> temporarily well >> thatary limiting of freedom of choice. >> So what if that virus had been here for 50 years? Would you have still supported lockdowns if the state officials and

Andrew Wilsonexperts came out and said that that was still the best way to mitigate the spread of this virus? Uh I think after 50 years with all of the technology that we have, if they had not managed to get >> But if they did, if they did, would you would you have supported their mandate

Andrew Wilsonfor uh new normal? >> No, that's ridiculous. >> Why? >> That's 50 years, that's a lifetime of of limited freedom. >> But a year and a half where people can't see their loved ones or loved ones die, they can't even go to the hospital to

Andrew Wilsonsee them. And when they can, they can't have any contact with them whatsoever, right? They can't even touch them. people couldn't get medical care for years. They were dying of diabetes and other horrible things because um because

Andrew Wilsonof these lockdowns. You were you were fine with those things as long as you thought that the greater good was served as far as outcomes go. >> My great-grandmother passed uh during

Andrew Wilsonthe COVID 19 lockdowns in 2020 and my family was able to go see her as as she was dying. That's nice for your family, but you know that there's many families who were not depending on the states that they were in that or they would have a contact order where only one

Charlie (Feminist)person could go in. >> That's how they did it. It was one person at a time, which is frankly not ideal, but I think >> it's not only not ideal, but you couldn't touch them. They had plastic between you and the person often.

Andrew Wilson>> Yeah. Depending on the state you were in, you couldn't even you couldn't they would wall you off with plastic so that you couldn't touch them because of the threat of the contact of the virus. And

Andrew Wilsonso the thing is is like that doesn't that's that doesn't sound like this freedom of choice society that was designed to assist people. And if if you

Andrew Wilsonsay well it's just a temporary measure just limit your choices temporarily. We don't know what temporarily is that lasted almost 2 years. Like >> it was a it was a year and a half. So that was fairly temporary.

Andrew Wilson>> It's not that temporary. And the amount of damage that it did was incredible. And if another one comes you'll do it again. And if another one came, he'd do it again. And if another one came, he'd do it again.

Charlie (Feminist)>> And given the uh unpopularity of the lockdowns and the politicization of the lockdowns, I don't think

Charlie (Feminist)uh politicians would want to um force another lockdown. Uh I also think that >> But you were you support them though, whether the politician does or not, you

Andrew Wilsonsupport him for the greater good. The idea is the it serves the greater good to you. And I guess that's my position too. See, I think that limiting choice can serve the greater good just like you

Andrew Wilsondo. I think that limiting choice in many instances serves the greater good. And I think that limiting choice for a lot of people like I think that limiting woman women's choices to have abortions, I think that that's good. I think that

Andrew Wilsonprovides better outcomes for society. I think that limiting uh women's ability to vote men into wars, I think that that's good for society. Like I think I think the same thing you think if we're

Andrew Wilsongoing for good as outcomes, I think that limiting choice is sometimes necessary for the greater good, just like you do. >> So I want to address what you said about war. Um I assume you're referring to the draft.

Andrew Wilson>> No. >> Vote men into wars. What do you mean? >> That's only one aspect. Well, I'll explain. >> Okay. Do you agree with me that no matter what

Andrew Wilsonthe circumstances are, it's almost almost exclusively going to be men who engage in all frontline combat operations in basically any nation on

Charlie (Feminist)planet Earth? >> I think that that has historically almost always been the case with some exceptions. Um uh but in this day and age, I do think

Charlie (Feminist)that boots on the ground is significantly less common >> like in the Ukraine. >> Oh well, Ukraine's a different beast. We're talking about America. Um and Ukraine also had women. The women

Andrew Wilsonvolunteered to fight for Ukraine. >> They weren't they're not in frontline combat roles. In fact, they were allowed to leave and the men weren't allowed to leave. The men had to stay and they were drafted right off the street.

Charlie (Feminist)That's terrible. I don't think anyone should be forced to go to war. However, it's also a specific age range of men. I think that when we are talking about war, >> it's hang on. It's up to 60.

Andrew Wilson>> They're drafting them up to 60 years old. But it's but it's common. That's common in a real war. >> We just haven't seen one in a long time. >> But when I think about war, I don't think about women voting.

Andrew Wilson>> Do you mind if we look that up? Can you look up the the uh the max draft age for Ukraine, Brian? >> Yeah. Mary, can you look that up? >> I believe that it was it was up to 60 or even higher.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Well, that's horrible. I I myself am very anti-war and I'm very anti-draft. I don't think that anyone should be forced to lay down their life. >> But don't you agree with me though that it will be the case that if there is

Andrew Wilsonwarfare in a nation >> that it is going to be men who are going to be almost exclusively doing all of the heavy lifting for all frontline combat. >> I I have the answer if you'd like. So

Brian Atlasthere there's a bit of detail on it, but hide that, Mary. The maximum draft age for men in Ukraine is 25, though this age was 27 before April 2024. However,

Brian Atlasafter completing their initial service, men become part of the reserve and be can be recalled for mobilization until they reach 55 or 60 for officers.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Yeah, that's also a system that we have in the US. My stepfather was Air Force reserves until Yeah. until he got older. >> Sure. >> Um >> and if they need to, they'll raise the age more. >> But there's also women who are, you

Andrew Wilsonknow, in the reserves in the US. >> Yes. But they're not The problem is with the idea of recall. Even if you recall women from the reserves at 55 years old, they're not going to be doing any

Charlie (Feminist)frontline combat. >> I do believe in 2014, women were allowed to be in frontline combat roles. Um I also >> even if we grant that some women will be

Andrew Wilsonin frontline combat roles >> it will be majority men >> it's always going to be now not when we say majority I don't want to get this confused as to think it's 51% >> 90% okay or higher

Charlie (Feminist)>> maybe higher >> much higher actually probably like 97 98 99 probably >> absolutely [snorts] also the nature of warfare has changed I think mostly boots on the ground is gone

Charlie (Feminist)>> I would like to point However, that it is only a specific kind of men that are being sent to do these things. >> It's men without the means to uh wiggle

Charlie (Feminist)their way out of the draft. It is old rich men sending young workingclass men to die >> unless you need them. [sighs] The thing is is like unless you need them. So in

Andrew WilsonGermany uh when the Soviets were invading Berlin and um and after >> they they took every able manbodied man right off the street. it was to in order

Andrew Wilsonto fight. I mean, that's what they did. And of course, women were told to flee. >> Mhm. >> Um because they become a hindrance. And so, I guess all I need really need here is just the agreement that it will always be the case no matter what. That

Andrew Wilsonit'll it'll be heavily 98% or so of men who will be engaged in frontline combat operations. If that's the case, then they have the most to risk when it comes to warfare. And if it is the case that

Andrew Wilsonthey have the most risk during warfare, and it is, I think that it's a fundamental unfairness in society, not just an unfairness, but a great injustice that women are allowed

Andrew Wilsonto vote on policies for warfare that they then don't have to go fight. As much as it upsets me that Congress can make laws and exempt itself from them,

Andrew Wilson>> it's just as much of an injustice to me that Congress can do that uh as it is an injustice to me that women can do this to men.

Andrew Wilson>> Um I mean, so would you say that only able-bodied men uh under a certain age should be allowed to vote? >> No. Because of what's called what because of what's called fighting

Andrew Wilsonpotential. >> Mhm. So the idea is just this. It may be extraordinarily rare that you ever need to get somebody who's disabled or uh

Andrew Wilsonvery old or very infirm to fight in frontline combat. But if you do, it's going to be men and the potential remains for men and the potential is not there for women.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Do you do you think that uh men with significant disabilities would be better frontline combatants than women? depends on how severe the disability is. >> All right. I guess like >> Yeah, it depends on how severe the the

Andrew Wilsondisability is. But I still think that even if you have moderate disabilities, then yeah, they're probably still going to be better off you're still probably going to be better off with men with moderate disabilities than you would uh

Charlie (Feminist)women. Yes. >> Is it not true that um I forget which kind of shooting competitions it is, but uh >> No, women are not better at shooting than men. >> No, but it's about equal.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Yeah. Well, I would say that like frontline soldiers uh what is the do you >> I don't know if you could look this up Brian but what how many bullets for how many people killed um it's it's usually

Charlie (Feminist)like an average of like hundreds of bullets shot >> thousands >> thousands shot actually it's tens of thousands >> so it almost seems like I think if a if a woman is you know

Andrew Wilsonmeets certain requirements uh >> they don't meet the requirements because you have to carry the ammo and you have to carry the equipment and you have to carry carry those things. >> Then why is it that we can't ever seem

Andrew Wilsonto get a a woman who can be a Navy Seal? We never had one. >> Well, that's some pretty extreme. Most men cannot become Navy Seals. >> I agree. But only men but only men can.

Andrew WilsonAnd when it comes to the idea of frontline combat, they have to lower. So women can be in the infantry. That's true. But they get lower standards. Women get lower standards in the military than men get. Well, I think if

Charlie (Feminist)you are, you know, polling for whoever in defense of your country or homeland, you would take anyone who might lower standards. >> I guess even if I grant that we we could

Andrew Wilsonhave some very small percentage of women who are capable of doing this and maybe we even field them because the vast majority, the overwhelming majority don't even have the potential. They

Andrew Wilsondon't even have the potential to do this. It seems to me that it's not just that women can vote to send their men off to fight. Uh by just by a simple majority, just by a simple majority,

Andrew Wilsonthey could do this by electing the politicians in office that have their pro-war stance perhaps. And that's a fundamental unfairness in society. And it it seems very obvious to me that

Andrew Wilsonthat's very fundamentally unfair. >> But women are in the military and they support roles the the standards. They pass they pass standards which are lesser than men's standards. >> In fact, I can have Brian pull it up if

Charlie (Feminist)you'd like to see it. But they have a different >> Sure. Yeah. No, I'm I'm fully aware of that. But they're still competent and support roles are still important. >> I agree. >> Also, you don't have to be on the front lines to be killing people. >> Uh my aunt flew helicopters

Charlie (Feminist)>> in the army >> and she was, you know, participating in killing people. >> Well, there's another reason why you don't want them there. It's not just because of the capability of combat. It's >> is it resources?

Andrew Wilson>> Nope. It's because your enemy will get capture them and and they they'll essay them and then they'll send them home pregnant in order to demoralize your population which is what the Soviets did. So, and

Andrew Wilsonit's what they would do in Afghanistan and unfortunately um many times it did happen where they captured American female soldiers and that's exactly what they did. They essayed them. And wartime rape is absolutely a thing which is why

Andrew Wilson>> let's not say the R word because it's YouTube. I forgot we have to Tik Tok policy. >> So the the problem is not just onefold

Andrew Wilsonright it's threefold problem one 98% and that's be being very charitable of women would never even have the potential to be involved in a war that

Andrew Wilsonthey could vote for. And >> I strongly disagree with that. Secondly, well, you could disagree, but the historic standard disagrees with you. And then secondly, uh the idea that uh

Andrew Wilsonwomen would be particularly useful in combat situations where enemy soldiers could have access to them knowing that they would be prime loot, their loot. That's what they would be. They would become booty, right? >> Do you think men don't get essayed in

Charlie (Feminist)wartime? >> Not like women. Not even close. It's not even in the same universe. >> The idea of them being booty or loot is is kind of ridiculous. But again, >> why >> even if I grant you all of this,

Andrew Wilson>> do you think they're like Do you think like the the ugly mudcatfish [laughter] over in the Middle East, they get to sell some prime real estate of a nice uh you know, big breasted blonde chick. You think that that's not like prime real

Andrew Wilsonestate to those guys? Do you think there's no men out there in the Middle East that are into men and wouldn't be delighted? >> You know what happens when you're in the Middle East and you're into men? Do you know what happens in the Middle East when you're into men? There's a special

Charlie (Feminist)thing they do called [ __ ] kill you. That's what that's what happens. >> Absolutely. Yes. But that is why essaying prisoners would be ideal because it can be an excuse to demoralize. >> There are very much

Andrew Wilson>> And what And so what would what would you do? Like let's pretend Charlie is the enemy commander. Okay, >> you're the enemy commander and your orders are to win the war by any means necessary against your enemies and you

Andrew Wilsonfound out that your enemies were fielding female soldiers in frontline combat where your troops had access to them. Now, what would be more diabolical or easier than creating special units

Andrew Wilsonwhose entire job was to just capture these enemy uh soldiers, these female enemy soldiers, essay them, record their screams, and send it to the enemy, and then release them pregnant with their babies.

Andrew Wilson>> How did that work out for Japan? >> How did I mean, it worked out fine. They went through Nan King, and they they absolutely did that. It was called the the raping of Nan King. That's what it was called. I'm fully I'm fully aware of what it was called, but I mean

Andrew Wilson>> it worked out well for them. They completely demoralized the Chinese. They completely subjugated them under their boots. >> We dropped two atom bombs on them and now they are China. No, >> but their ally, the US did it.

Andrew Wilson>> And was the US fielding women in frontline combats in in Japan? No. No. >> Nurses, but >> no, but the Chinese, right, they were getting anybody they could. And the thing is funny is the first thing the

Andrew WilsonJapanese did as part of their demoralization campaign was essay all the women and make sure that and one of the big pieces of propaganda that they had was all of your future children are

Charlie (Feminist)now our future children. >> Yeah. It's it's horrible and awful. But again, look at where China is now and look at where Japan is now. Um, you know, people joke about the Chinese

Charlie (Feminist)century, but I I think China is a very powerful world superpower and Japan is an American vassel state essentially. So, I think at the end of >> I mean, I would argue that more people

Andrew Wilsonwould want to live in Japan than they would in China. >> That doesn't change the fact that China has is much more powerful than Japan. >> Yeah. But it's also got way more people than Japan and a much larger land mass and way more access to resources. And we

Andrew Wilsonallowed them to continue to have an offensive military post war in Japan. We took that away from >> Well, we didn't option to take that away from China >> because they were our our allies. >> Well, we we did right at the start have

Andrew Wilsonthe option to, but we didn't. But the point is is that the the Japanese have not been allowed to have a military. We don't allow them to have an offensive one. >> Yeah. Because of what happened last time. >> Yeah. Exactly. But the point is is that

Andrew Wilsonagain, that's the second reason. That's the second. And then you have the third reason uh which is that um they can't

Andrew Wilsonmeet the minimum requirements which would be necessary for us to even fill them if we wanted to in those situations because they would get killed so quickly. I mean they would just get

Charlie (Feminist)killed so quickly. I don't know if you have a good idea of what, no offense, but like I don't I

Charlie (Feminist)don't I feel like maybe you your idea of of like what war looks like now is like dudes charging at each other with guns and that's not really how it works. >> What do you think war looks like right now, Charlie? >> It's drone warfare at the moment. We don't really do boots on the ground

Charlie (Feminist)anymore. >> Is there a lot of drone warfare going on in Russia and Ukraine? guerilla warfare. >> Uh not super familiar with Russia and Ukraine, but I know there's a lot of tanks and they're blowing people up. >> Mostly mo they mostly been focusing on

Andrew Wilsondrone combat. I'm going to tell you something really interesting that happened. Okay, >> so the Russians brought back the dragoon, the actual dragoon, and instead of using a horse, they use a motorcycle

Andrew Wilsoninstead to outpace drones, and they mount AK-47 machine guns to the front of their motorcycles. >> And they fly past the enemy and they mow them down. >> A woman couldn't do that.

Andrew Wilson>> No, no, no, she couldn't. For the most part, a motorcycle and she >> No, I don't think she could. I think that the I don't think you really understand the physical weight requirements that are necessary to both

Andrew Wilsoncontrol a motorcycle, have a heavy machine gun mounted to it that you're also firing um and carry the requisite equipment to do this. I I don't think >> would be tied to the motorcycle.

Andrew Wilson>> That doesn't make it less unwieldy. Very hard to wield. It requires physical strength to do these things. >> Yes, I've shot guns before. It's just I don't I'm unclear how a gun being mounted on a

Andrew Wilsonmotorcycle, you're not having to carry it. You were just riding the motorcycle. >> You have to control the motorcycle with your muscles. >> Yes, I I know how how motorcycles work. >> And the heavier the front end of them is, the more you have to use the muscles

Andrew Wilsonto steer it. >> These probably aren't American. >> And by the way, what do you think the what do you think the 110 lb woman's going to do? Kick up the kickstand and keep it up or do you think she's going to fall over with? believe they wouldn't be recruiting 110. >> But it's not just that. They are in in

Andrew WilsonRussian Ukraine charging at each other with machine guns. They are on the ground fighting just like world. It's World War II looking combat more than anything else. It's infantrybased warfare all over the Ukraine. Why do you think so many people are dying? Why do

Andrew Wilsonyou think they're dying so much? Because they're engaged in frontline infantry combat day in and day out. >> Is it not a lot of guerilla stuff? >> Yes, of course. Guerilla fighting is always part of warfare. >> All right. I feel like that is what the

Andrew Wilsonmajority of warfare is now. Bombs, drones, guerilla stuff. >> It war will always come down after you get past the technological barriers. So if you have a first world nation attacking third world nation, sure,

Andrew Wilsonright? They're left with guerrilla warfare. Uh we use massive amounts of technology to level major cities, things like this, and then send in an occupying force. They fight the occupying force with guerrilla warfare. That's true.

Andrew Wilson>> But when it comes to first world nations, that's different. They have they have uh technology. They're going to blow the hell out of each other, right? But then when they blow up each other's technology, it still comes down to infantry based combat. Why do you

Andrew Wilsonthink they train people to be infantrymen? Because it still comes down to that. And there's lots of places you can't get technology. You can't always get technology in the deep dark jungle or in the high deserts or in the snow covered fields.

Andrew Wilson>> Uh low on I think they're pulling very very old. >> It's not just that. Think about here in the United States. You going to get a tank through Michigan in the winter time? I don't think so. I don't think that's No, I don't think so. So, the thing is is like yeah, it requires the

Andrew Wilsonrequisite is a lot of strength regardless of technology and even utilizing technology requires a lot of physical strength. Tanks require loading from shells, carrying tons of shells, carrying tons of equipment and

Andrew Wilsonammunition. And not only that, you have to be more resistant to the elements and men are. Men are more resistant to elements than women are. And so, they have kind of everything going for them.

Charlie (Feminist)They're they're the super soldier and they were designed basically to be super soldiers, right? That's uh >> I mean I I think you you might have an exaggerated idea of what the average starving Russian farm boy might look

Charlie (Feminist)like. >> I think a lot of a lot of the the boys recruited into, you know, or drafted into warfare over like uh across across >> How do you think you would do in a

Andrew Wilsonphysical fist fight with the average Russian starving farm boy? depends on how tall he is. I have beaten well it's been a long time since I've uh

Andrew Wilson>> I mean honest honestly out of out of out of just a random any random Russian farm boy who's starving that you can think of who you came across right how well do you think you would do if you tangled up

Charlie (Feminist)with him in a physical conflict >> physical fist fighting not well >> not well >> but if I had a gun I think we'd be about equal >> yeah but

Andrew Wilson>> or a knife or a spear or swords >> but if he had a I don't think you would be equal. I think that that starving peasant who's male is still going to be 10 times more dangerous than you with a gun. >> With a gun? >> Yes. He's fat. He's going to be faster.

Charlie (Feminist)He's going to be stronger. He's going to have better predatory instincts. >> Are like they are like equal when it comes to using guns. Like there is like >> you're thinking about this the wrong way.

Andrew Wilson>> Uhhuh. If I if I set you up right here, okay, and we lay you down on a table and you have a rifle and the rifle's been sighted in and all you have to do is aim it at the target and pull the trigger,

Andrew Wilsonyou can do that equal to a man. >> Totally agree. But if you have to carry that [ __ ] thing for 60 m and all the ammunition that comes with it and all of the equipment that you need to sustain

Andrew Wilsonyourself to survive in any sort of environment with you, uh you're going to have a huge problem. And the reason you're going to have a huge problem is because you don't have to just carry your equipment. You got to carry the

Andrew Wilsonguy's equipment next to you as well for the things that they're doing. And men are on average 50 to 75% stronger than women. That's why they're capable of doing that. and women aren't >> well the me of right now is perhaps yes

Charlie (Feminist)not equipped to do that but there are certainly women who uh you know carry very heavy loads when they camp or hike >> I agree >> and travel far distances there's also some women that a woman who hunts

Charlie (Feminist)regularly would be much you know better equipped in that sort of scenario than like I don't know a teenage boy who's never picked up a gun in his life >> because it's a strength differential means so much

Andrew Wilson>> not with a gun. >> With a gun, it means a lot. You You have to Okay. Okay. I wish we had one here so I could demonstrate this for you, but I think I can at least express it for you. Okay. >> Do you agree with me that ammunition

Andrew Wilsonweighs a lot? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Weighs a lot. >> It weighs a lot. Okay. >> How would you feel about carrying 400 rounds of it on your chest? >> I would hate it. >> Yeah. Along with full magazines and the

Andrew Wilsonrifle itself and your cleaning kit with it and your food for the day. Your basic mess kit. your basic mess gear, your sleeping bag, everything else that you have, and then at the end of a long hike, you're expected to fight.

Charlie (Feminist)>> I wonder, this is kind of an insane proposition. Um, I do want to go back to again like uh women during warfare because Okay, let me actually not make a

Charlie (Feminist)I was going to say, I mean, my goodness, if we really needed to, we could just start giving women testosterone if we needed to get them as buff as the average. >> Yeah. But you see the whole narrow >> if we were if we were desperate for it, we could start giving women tea and they

Andrew Wilsonwould get pretty jacked pretty quickly. >> Yeah. Do you see the issue there though? That should be pretty obvious right away, >> which is it would be forcing someone to take H. >> No, no, no. That's not the issue. The issue is it's like why wouldn't you just

Charlie (Feminist)give it to the men? uh except testosterone in men just turns into estrogen which is why >> um people looking to transition to uh you know have more >> male secondary sex characteristics they

Andrew Wilsonhave to be careful about the dosage of testosterone they take otherwise it loops around and turns back into estrogen >> sure but if it's a but if it's a case you're looking for a strength differential right most men are short on on testosterone anyway and uh you could

Andrew Wilsongive them TRT >> why not give it that's one but two for women TRT and its effects and changes on your physical body would take years. Doesn't take weeks. Takes years

Andrew Wilson>> for your muscles to start to increase a bit about this. It doesn't. >> It does. >> It It does. It does. It definitely does. >> I have very personal experience with this. It It doesn't. >> You became 50% stronger using TRT. You

Charlie (Feminist)became equivalent in strength to the average man using TRT. >> Uh I mean, my muscles immediately grew. Yes. >> Yeah. Your muscles will immediately grow. But grew and I also wasn't even

Andrew Wilsonworking out. >> They would they would started working out. >> Mhm. >> While I was on tea, I would be jacked out of my mind. >> Sure. >> I would be stronger than >> And you would still be weaker than the No, you wouldn't be stronger than most

Charlie (Feminist)men. That's the problem. >> I think I would want to see a for that reason a study on uh if you know FTM people are like how long it takes for

Andrew Wilsonthem to become as strong. Can I logically demonstrate it for you? >> Surely there's >> Okay, I can just logically demonstrate it for you. How many of these um F toms are in male contact sports?

Andrew Wilson>> Um, >> can you name one? >> Yeah, there's a >> It better be a contact sport. Better not be water polo. >> Wrestler. Wrestling. >> There was a >> what wrestling? Pro wrestling?

Charlie (Feminist)>> No, no, no. It was a the story was on an FTM uh teenager in high school >> who uh was getting a lot of flack for being on the women's team and so they switched him to the men's team. Um and

Charlie (Feminist)he did fine. >> So yeah, that's a male contact sport. >> I would like to know what this story is so I can look into it. It's been like I'm not aware I am referencing I'm not aware of any like Tumblr and

Andrew Wilson>> yeah I'm not aware of any professional >> any professional athletes in the NFL or in the NBA or in any of these places which are F tom and I mean anywhere they can't compete with the men. They'll get

Charlie (Feminist)I mean they'll just get crushed. >> They get to they be destroyed. >> Peak athletes like are we talking >> but isn't it scalable? Like they would be peak athletes too. Do you think that

Charlie (Feminist)everyone else like I feel that everyone has based on their genetics a a level of potential that they can reach? >> Yeah. >> And I think even if you take

Andrew Wilsontestosterone, you still have that limit. I think that the vast majority of men will never be >> You know what? I'm just going to I'll just grant that you could jack women up

Andrew Wilsonon TRT, make a mega job, uh, which would be ridiculous. It's ridiculous. You ain't going to do it. But even then, it doesn't deal with the problem of the essay.

Charlie (Feminist)It doesn't deal with that issue at all. >> Well, they'd start growing beards, so and their voices would drop. >> Do you think that that would stop them from being essayed? >> No, of course not. >> Okay, then.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Um, but that's also a consequence of, you know, going going to war. Unfortunately, you can be captured and tortured. It's horrible, but it's it's what >> But it's going to be way more horrible

Charlie (Feminist)for women. I mean, God, prisoners of war, male prisoners of war suffer quite horribly. I mean, we could also consider that it's

Charlie (Feminist)quite possible >> they're not sad 50 times a day and women would be >> sure, but I would I would assume that female prisoners would not be given

Charlie (Feminist)harsher uh would be given less harsh physical punishments versus the men. less harsh physical punishment than being raped. >> Uh, no. But what I mean is like

Andrew Wilson>> what's a less harsh punishment than that? >> Like having like your freaking legs and arms broken and being like beaten to a bloody pulp every day. >> Didn't you think that most women if they had to choose would prefer that over essay? Because most of the feminists I've talked to would claim that they

Charlie (Feminist)would >> over having my legs and arms broken. My god, I would have to decide in the moment because those both sound pretty awful. >> They both sound pretty awful. sound pretty awesome.

Andrew Wilson>> But being sent back home pregnant with your essay's kids, too, that would be hugely demoralizing on your countrymen, wouldn't it? >> I don't know uh what starvation and long-term imprisonment would do for someone's

Andrew Wilson>> Why does it even need to be long term? They could just do it over a couple of weeks, send you home pregnant. >> Sure. And then that person could abort or keep the child. >> That's their choice. >> That's horribly traumatic. >> It's horribly traumatic. Yes. Correct.

Andrew Wilson>> Not just for you, for your countrymen, for your husband, for your parents. Right. It's the most demoralizing thing I could ever think of doing to the enemy. >> It is horrific and it and it happens all the time. Women are essayed and forced, you know, keep

Andrew Wilson>> not only that, can we just point out that in the military itself, the essay rates for women are really high just being in the military period, >> they're not good for women anyway. They probably shouldn't be in the military

Charlie (Feminist)anyway because they're constantly essayed anyway. >> I don't have any thoughts on that. Um because that is a very significant issue. uh >> huge issue that would that would go away

Andrew Wilsonissue. It would go away if women weren't in the military. >> I think different units could be better for that. However, I do want >> You're going to have the Charlie all

Charlie (Feminist)female fighting force. [laughter] >> I mean, yeah. Didn't the uh >> You know what I would do if I were >> Did the Soviets have an all female sniper? They had all female sniper uh >> the I'm going to just I hate >> units, did they not?

Andrew Wilson>> Yeah. I hate to be the person to because it's like telling a kid that there's no such thing as Santa Claus, but the female super soldier snipers

Andrew Wilson>> from the Soviet Union were they were propaganda. They didn't exist. They weren't real. >> Well, I'd have to look into that. >> Look into it. But >> okay,

Andrew Wilson>> the the big female asskicking chicks 99% propaganda. And by the way, for the minute it was too 99% propaganda. They had outrageous kill count. 7 8 900. Give me a [ __ ] break. Yeah, right. Not

Andrew Wilsoneven close. But what are you going to say that your enemy comes out with a report that says that their sniper killed 120 of yours? Is your report going to say that you only killed 10 of theirs? No, of course not. You match propaganda with propaganda?

Charlie (Feminist)>> Well, yeah. It's also World War II. It's not like we can really >> It was way overated. That being said, that being said, women in the military,

Charlie (Feminist)whatever. Um do you think that women do not suffer when their uh sons, husbands, brothers, fathers are sent to war?

Charlie (Feminist)>> Yeah, they suffer. >> Because I would um I I I can't say what I would do if you know my brothers and father were sent to die

Charlie (Feminist)>> uh just to make some rich guy more money. I can't tell you what I would do. It's It's >> Yeah, but I mean it's preferable to not die. >> Yes. >> Than to die. >> Yes. >> So, you still get the better end of the

Charlie (Feminist)deal. >> Why would I Why would I vote to send my brothers and my dad to war? Why would I go, "Yes, oh, just what I wanted. I want all the men I love to die." Like, that's

Andrew WilsonI feel like that's ridiculous. >> Women are susceptible to propaganda in many ways that men aren't, and they're the most susceptible to it. Would you like the sniper over overview? >> Yeah. Yeah, sure.

Brian Atlas>> So, soviet female sniper units were a small percentage compared to male snipers. >> There were uh >> 430,000 snipers trained in the Soviet Union

Brian Atlasduring World War II, only 2,000 of which were women >> and a fraction uh a fraction of the total sniper force force were women.

Andrew Wilson>> Okay. Yeah. very very small. I knew that about the them being very very small >> and their kill counts were also very small and wildly blown out of proportion. [laughter] >> Wildly blown out of proportion. >> It does say that the male snipers had higher kill counts.

Andrew Wilson>> Mhm. >> Well, I guess a kill is a kill. >> Yeah. But I would just point this out that um >> that that aside the the problem is is that

Andrew Wilson>> right now in the Ukraine if you're part of the voting block and you get invaded for instance women can vote to leave the men behind to kill while they go while

Andrew Wilsonthey leave and and that's exactly what's going on. The women aren't required to fight. They're leaving. >> They're allowed to leave and the Ukraine men are not allowed to leave. Do you think that the men I think that's

Charlie (Feminist)horrible, but how do the men in Ukraine feel about it? Because I do think that there are often men with very

Charlie (Feminist)uh you know strong uh ideas about chivalry who would say that's my duty. >> Sure. to to carry on our country where women need to go because that's that's very

Charlie (Feminist)much >> but what would that have to do with the justice of it all or the injustice of it all? >> Well, there's no justice in that. That's not >> Yeah, it's not just and so the thing is is that when I further practical these these sorts of votes to pass, is it a

Andrew Wilsonwoman in power that is making these things happen? >> Well, well, in a democracy, yes. Aren't all women in power >> in a >> Yeah. >> No. >> No. Oh, you don't have the power to

Charlie (Feminist)vote. >> I can vote, but the people who are deciding what I can do, >> then you have equal power to men. >> Certainly, yes. The men of of of my status, but you know, not the lawmakers, not the politicians.

Andrew Wilson>> You're in charge of the politicians that you get put into office >> hardly. I think that's a >> you and the collection of voters. Yes. And you vote for collective interests just like we vote for collective interests. We try to, but do you think

Charlie (Feminist)that uh American politicians and lawmakers largely reflect the interests of the people? >> You know, interestingly enough, I think I think now they do. I think that the

Andrew Wilsontruth is is that um when I talk to the average progressive >> Mhm. >> Yeah. I think I think they do. I think that we're getting exactly what we paid for and what we vote for. So yeah, I do I think that we have an immoral

Andrew Wilsongovernment because we have an immoral populace. And I think that that's always the that that generally tends to be the case. Now, not always, but I think generally, yeah, we we have exactly the government we deserve, which is a bunch

Charlie (Feminist)of incompetent [ __ ] [ __ ] who are out there to [ __ ] us over, right? >> That's very bleak. Um, but I can't say I disagree with you there on that. Uh,

Charlie (Feminist)however, my my point is is that we typically don't get a say often times in what we we vote on, what laws are passed. I mean, we can try

Charlie (Feminist)our best, you know, when the midterms come up. I don't know how how democracy works in Ukraine. I am uh woefully

Charlie (Feminist)uneducated on Ukraine and Russia. Um, but again, I feel like you would want to turn to the politicians and lawmakers that are allowing these injustices to

Andrew Wilsonoccur. >> Well, I guess before we get to that, can we just start with agreeing that that's an injust and non-equitable system, >> correct? >> That women can vote to send men to wars they don't have to fight.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Uh, I mean, I think being able to I don't it's not just women. It would also be old men. It would be disabled men >> because there's still the potential which exists there uniquely for them

Andrew Wilsonthat even old men if they have skills and the government wants them they are definitely going to go and the government can force them to do it via the draft via these various drafts. >> These would be the same things that women would be sent over for. No.

Andrew Wilson>> For instance, my >> what do we want? What do we what what skills we need from women in warfare? They don't have any of the STEM. They have none of the STEM degrees. >> Medicine. Why would we need women from what for nursing?

Andrew Wilson>> Correct. Yes. For healthcare. >> But they've always been nurses in >> Yeah. And we did also have have female nurses in wars. Florence Nightingale is >> and they didn't get shot because they were be they were nowhere near the front

Charlie (Feminist)lines. They're always behind. >> All right. Well, you know what? My papa, my grandfather was drafted into Vietnam and he was a doctor. >> He was not near the front lines ever at all. He was he was a very valuable >> but he had the potential to be. >> No.

Andrew Wilson>> Yes. >> They were not going to waste a doctor on the front lines. Are you crazy? >> Unless the war came to him. And the thing is is that sometimes it did. Like they had the offensive people got bombed. Also female nurses like in the

Andrew Wilsonsame housing on the same boats that were also >> usually they keep them separated and evacuate them first just like they did during the Ted offensive. When the Tet offensive happened in Vietnam, that was during the Tet holiday, their like Day of the Dead,

Andrew Wilson>> and there was a Tet ceasefire and they broke the ceasefire. They attacked military bases all over Vietnam and just [ __ ] decimated us. >> It was brutal. >> And but the thing is is like even the

Andrew Wilsonnurses who were there, um, which by the way, still mostly male, I believe, but even the ones who are female, they get evacuated first. Women are always evacuated first. In other words, the potentiality is always there for these

Andrew Wilsonmen. And it's not really there for these women. And I don't know why it is that you for like any other form of social injustice, you would be all about this. If I said, "Hey, look at look at the

Andrew Wilsonfact that like for instance um uh these white people can vote that to have black people go fight wars they don't have to fight." You would be like, "No way. We're not going to allow no [ __ ] way." And if I gave you the same

Andrew Wilsonpotentials for that, I feel like you'd be like, "We need to stop that right this second." But for some reason when it's between the sexes, you don't care. >> Would the response be uh you know, okay,

Andrew Wilsonno white people can vote. >> That wouldn't be the correct no white people can vote. >> No white people can vote to send uh black people off to war, right? They're

Andrew Wilsonnot allowed to do that. And yes, if it was the case, I think that you would actually I think that you would advocate if it was the case that white people could vote to send black people off to war that they didn't have to go fight. I

Charlie (Feminist)think that you would say that you should mitigate suffering in some way for that or suffrage for that. >> So you feel that I would say that all white people like no white people should be allowed to vote >> if it was the alternative that they could vote black people to go to war

Charlie (Feminist)when they didn't? Yeah, I think you would. Unfortunately, I'm selfish to agree that as a white person, I still want to be able to vote. I want to have a say in the country that I pay taxes to.

Charlie (Feminist)>> Even if it's the case that we can vote to send black people off to war and we don't go fight them ourselves, >> I think that most white people would not vote to send black people to war. I think that's kind of a

Charlie (Feminist)strange scenario um because that also gets into the trouble of determining my goodness. Uh, I mean, like, how would that even work? >> The same way it worked in the drafts. They would go to low-income black

Charlie (Feminist)neighborhoods and draft them. >> Well, I mean, that's kind of how we recruit into the military now anyway, is we, you know, find the poorest people possible and we go, "Hey, free school, free healthcare, join." >> I agree. There's a lot of bribery there. Die for the >> But my point is is that I think that

Andrew Wilsonthis form of social injustice, you would be like I just think that if the if the roles were reversed racially that you would be outraged and you're just not because >> I would be upset. I just think that you're Hang on. I just think the It's

Andrew Wilsonnot just about the draft, though. My argument here is not even about the draft. My argument is that >> it's a it's a huge injustice that one portion of the population has the potential to always fight wars on behalf

Andrew Wilsonof the other. The other doesn't have to fight it. Gets all the benefits of them doing it. All right. And we're supposed to just be like, "Well, okay then." >> The the benefit >> it's like, "Yeah, [ __ ] that. No, that's not okay then." The benefits like having

Charlie (Feminist)your male family members die, potential wartime rape if your country is >> the benefits of you not being [ __ ] occupied and being able to get all your resources. Those are way bigger benefits. >> War doesn't ensure that you'll never not

Andrew Wilsonbe occupied again. What that means is that a good chunk of the money that we make will be going to >> I assure you you're wrong. >> I assure you that if you refuse to go to war, you will be occupied. >> Let her finish. Let her finish. Go

Charlie (Feminist)ahead. We will also be again if if if our country goes to war, any country that votes to go to war, there's a chance that they could be invaded and

Charlie (Feminist)their women could be subjected to uh wartime essay. Um again, also uh in times of war, things are tough. Your resources are are

Charlie (Feminist)not there. People starve during wartime. There is very few people who actively benefit from war except for the ultra wealthy.

Andrew Wilson>> Yeah. But do you understand that the the case and point is that it's going to be men who are going to do this? And when you say things that are

Andrew Wilsonthey just sound absurd to me like um there's no guarantee that you still won't be occupied even if you send the men off to war. It's like so what? You're still sending the men off to war and you just don't ever have that

Andrew Wilsonpotential. Like that's nothing you ever have to worry about when you go down and you sign up to vote. You don't have to sign a draft card. Like you don't you don't get put in a draft system. Your number's never going to get called.

Charlie (Feminist)That's nothing you ever need to worry about ever. And that is a potential that all men need to worry about. And by the way, even the ones >> It's not really We haven't had a draft since Vietnam again because the way that

Charlie (Feminist)warfare works has changed. We have an insanely bloated military. the chances of either of you um being called in in a draft to go to the front lines to fight

Charlie (Feminist)uh slim to none. However, >> I I'm against the draft and I would support I would support any motion, legal motion to remove the draft. I would I would vote for that. I would use my power as a woman.

Andrew Wilson>> Yeah, that's great. But it's not even contending with what I'm saying. That's like not even contending with what I'm saying. Even if that's the case, that's nice that you say that, >> right? But our global leaders are never going to get rid of the draft because

Andrew Wilsontheir military their military advisers tell them not to because it's a huge weapon for mobilization of military force if you need it. So, we're never going to get rid of it. That's just a [ __ ] pipe dream. It's never going to happen ever.

Andrew Wilson>> So, remove women's ability to vote and then we'll never go to war. Is that is that your thinking? No, I'm saying that this this injustice and unfairness. And by the way, like when you bring up, you say, "Well, what about 60-year-olds?

Andrew WilsonThey can't be drafted." Okay, but they could have been when they were in their 20s and signed up for the draft and which you didn't have to. So, their potential was already there and exhausted. They already had to go through that stage of life where their number could be called and yours

Andrew Wilsoncouldn't. So, yeah, they still get the benefit. They still did the thing that you guys will never [ __ ] do. They still did it. And so the thing is, so the thing is is like it just stands like this to reason, right? It doesn't matter if the 18-year-old never gets called to

Andrew Wilsona draft. The potential is only there that he will. And you can't get mad at him later because he still maintains voting rights or certain rights that you don't get because he still went through the process of signing up for the draft

Andrew Wilsonand had the potential to be called and you never did. So it's like, why do you get anything extra? Why why is it that they don't get extra? In fact, why do you get anything on par with that when

Charlie (Feminist)the social status is such that men can be called to defend you and die and that's never a service you have to render on their behalf? >> You know, I have multiple male family members who went to war. Um, my

Charlie (Feminist)grandfather who was drafted and I have never had them express to me, it makes me so mad that you as a woman get to vote because I was drafted and went to

Charlie (Feminist)war. I've I've never encountered this attitude from anyone that went to combat. >> Yeah. >> That that were that was deployed like I have I have until

Andrew Wilson>> this this I had never heard that before. >> Yeah. But do you understand that maybe [clears throat] against the politicians? Well, I think

Andrew Wilsonyou do understand though that um that many times injustices are perpetuated on people and they don't even know that they're being perpetuated on them.

Andrew Wilson>> Mhm. >> Perhaps most injustices that way. >> So just because a person tells you or has never told you that they felt that there was a weight of injustice in the thing which was happening may never have

Charlie (Feminist)been explained to them or they may never have even thought about it before. Like most people don't think about the weight of injustice. >> Women aren't responsible for this injustice. It is the lawmakers and politicians that put the draft in place.

Andrew Wilson>> Well, but my my opinion on this is that it doesn't really matter. What matters is that this injustice is happening now and it's going to continue to happen for the rest of our lives and you're never going to get rid of it ever. And even if

Andrew Wilsonit were the case that women could be drafted, it wouldn't matter because they would never be able to serve in the same capacity as men. and says the draft is never going to go away ever and it's not ever going to go away. You're not going to be able to vote it away. There'll

Andrew Wilsonalways be some some capacity for it because it's just too useful of a mechanism if you ever have to go to war. Your generals will never allow it. >> Okay, then you know >> so hang on let me finish the point

Andrew Wilsonthough. If that's if that's the case, um, then it's it's a fundamentally unfair proposition that women can can vote in politicians against the will of

Andrew Wilsonmen, and they do all the time because they're mostly left-wingers who could then vote to send them to war. Like, that's that that's uh that's completely unjust. In every capacity I can think

Charlie (Feminist)of, that's totally unjust. It's my understanding that um uh political divides are a lot more uh stark when it comes to uh ethnicity and um education

Charlie (Feminist)versus uh you know gender like there is a divide but if we're talking about populations sending people to war like

Charlie (Feminist)most white female voters voted for for Trump um I think in 2024 and 2016 they were voting they were voting with men correct. with with white men. >> Yeah, I've heard this argument. And so

Andrew Wilsonthe argument is is that it's actually more stark along racial, ethnic, and social lines than it is along gender lines because races tend to vote together. >> Yes. >> You have a problem with that though,

Andrew Wilsonwhich is that you saw that >> the Hispanic men really did start voting differently than Hispanic women. And the reason that you saw so many of the white

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