Did She CHEAT?! Men Make ZERO Effort?! They DEMAND Trad Men BUT Are THEY Trad?! | Dating Talk #217
Date: 2024-12-02
Duration: 9h 44m
Guests
Brian AtlasIdentified Speakers
SPEAKER_04TTS Voice(audience)
SPEAKER_06Andrew Wilson(guest)
SPEAKER_09Madison(guest)
SPEAKER_12Alexis(guest)
SPEAKER_13Female Panel (mixed)(guest)
SPEAKER_14Brian Atlas(host)
Key Moments
00:05:03
QuoteMadison says she hooks up with Rogue's polyamorous boyfriend: 'I play with Madison's husband all the time and it's different than when I play with my own partner'
“I play with Madison's husband all the time”
00:23:59
QuoteSienna/Rogue defends OnlyFans economics: 'You could get so much for $200 on OnlyFans' (in response to $200 TTS saying 'delete your OF accounts')
“you donated $200 just to say that and like you could get so much for $200 on off”
00:39:43
ControversyAndrew Wilson cites 2011 study: gonorrhea rates among adult performers are 64x higher than general population and 18x higher than LA County residents aged 18-29
“just as of 2011 just to just to tell you um the studies found that goria rates alone were 64 times higher than the general population and 18 18 times higher than Los Angeles County”
01:14:17
Key MomentBrian presents the 'McDonald's vs five-star restaurant' analogy for sex: men who just want casual sex from women take them to five-star restaurants, while men who truly like a woman go 50/50, paralleling women making relationship men wait while sleeping quickly with hookups
“all the exes all the the guy all his exes uh got five star meals but uh and no change in financial status uh she gets McDonald's”
01:45:59
QuoteAndrew Wilson: 'You can't unsuck a dick' — on the irreversibility of high body count and its effect on male attraction
“there's an old proverb um you can't unsuck a dick right”
01:52:09
QuoteBrian Atlas: 'Men are not vending machines in a similar way where you put sex tokens into and you get a relationship out of them'
“men are not vending machines in a similar way where you put sex tokens into and you get a relationship out of them”
02:28:03
OtherSelf-ratings round: Rogue 7-8, Maya 9, Sienna 3.5 (very candid about weight), Kiki 7, Melissa 10 (banter about non-corrective glasses), Madison 8 (7.5-8), Giana 9, Andrew 10
02:28:37
QuoteSienna rates herself 3.5: 'I truly believe I am a 3.5 and I have had um sexual relations with someone that was um more attractive and that doesn't inflate my ego'
“I believe I am a 3.5 and I have had um sexual relations with with someone that was um you know I guess what would you say out of do they say out of your league”
03:26:03
Key MomentBrian pulls up his ex-girlfriend's bow video — she greets him with food and performs a deep bow. Extended panel reaction; Brian explains he trained her to bow deeper over time.
“this was after a long I took this video was after a long day at the podcast Studio my expectation is like she has to hit a bow”
03:42:50
ControversyAndrew Wilson presents the chivalry-virtue exchange argument: 'If you expect the code of chivalry — why in the hell should any man ever extend that if there's no chastity and virtue in exchange?'
“if there's not the Chastity and the Purity and The Virtue aspect for women why in the hell should any man ever ever in a million years extend the code of chivalry”
04:13:51
QuoteBrian on the office clip analogy: 'Lead me — lead me when I'm in the mood to be led' — describing women wanting leadership from men but only conditionally
“Lead Me lead me when I'm in the mood to be led”
04:52:27
Key MomentBrian shows video of his ex-girlfriend bowing to him when he comes home — 'bow boom, huge bow'
“bow boom huge bow you see that look at the bow look at the depth”
06:35:00
ControversyRacism/white privilege debate: Andrew argues that systems which say minority groups can't be racist toward white people create their own systemic problem. Cites Barbary slave trade of Europeans, Irish oppression, Italian oppression.
07:56:23
QuoteBrian reveals his BLM (Big Labia Matter) Instagram post was mistaken for Black Lives Matter by a girl he was about to date — she cancelled the date thinking he hadn't posted a black square
“she thought it was black Liv matter but it was the big laia thing”
08:21:45
QuoteBrian reveals his father was born in Algeria, North Africa — making him 'technically African-American.' Extended banter with panel about this.
“my dad was born in North Africa in uh Algeria technically I'm African-American”
09:39:53
OtherGiana performs a spider/backbend contortion move on the floor at the end of the show — panel is amazed. She is a trained contortionist (mother is gymnastics teacher).
“okay okay make sure you can or you want me to move this huh go okay you're good wait you're doing it”
Topics Discussed
00:02:23
Guest Introductions
Brian introduces panel and each guest states their name, age, location, occupation, and relationship status in turn. Rogue (32, Reno, OnlyFans/pole/radiology), Maya (24, CA/Michigan, OnlyFans), Sienna (21, Torrance, student), Kiki (20, LA, digital marketing student), Melissa (23, LA, social media), Madison (35, SF, married/OnlyFans/Pilates), Alexis (23, LA, flight attendant/bartender), Giana (18, LA, model).
00:06:20
Relationship Status Round
Panel discusses current and past relationships. Rogue is polyamorous with 4-year boyfriend. Maya single 2 years. Sienna single 3 weeks (just ended 2.5yr relationship with fentanyl addict). Kiki in new 1-month relationship from LA Fashion Week. Melissa single 1 month. Madison married 17 years (high school sweethearts, swingers). Alexis single 1 month (4yr relationship ended). Giana single 3 years.
00:25:00
OnlyFans and Sex Work Debate
Extended debate between Andrew Wilson and Madison/Rogue about whether OnlyFans/sex work is harmful to society. Andrew argues it's harmful based on STD rates, trafficking, degradation of marriage values. Madison and Rogue defend it. Discussion of STD testing in the industry vs. general population, sampling bias in studies. Andrew cites 2011 gonorrhea study showing 64x higher rates among performers.
00:51:40
Domestic Violence and Divorce History
Panel discusses whether low historical divorce rates masked higher domestic violence. Andrew argues battery was always illegal. Madison argues many women were trapped and unreported. Debate over falsifiability of 'it was just underreported' arguments.
00:58:20
When Women Have Sex: Fast vs. Slow
Long discussion about women having sex quickly with casual hookups but making 'relationship material' men wait. Brian presents the analogy of men paying more for dates for casual encounters but less (going 50/50) for women they actually like. Panel largely acknowledges the pattern. Andrew draws parallel to make Brian's point. Madison defends her first-night hookup that led to 17 years.
01:14:10
Vasodepression/Oxytocin and Hookup Science
Discussion of oxytocin (bonding hormone in women after sex) and vasodepression in men (buildup creating chase drive, release causing post-nut clarity). Guest argues this explains why making men wait can increase their interest.
01:56:40
Body Count and Virgin Preference
Long debate about whether high body count decreases women's relationship prospects. Andrew argues it limits the pool of quality men. Rogue argues polyamorous Chad wouldn't care. Discussion of whether men prefer virgins, loyalty threshold theory, and whether women are sabotaging themselves by advocating for promiscuity.
02:48:20
Self-Ratings Round
Guests rate their physical appearance 1-10. Rogue: 7-8. Maya: 9. Sienna: 3.5 (very honest, says she needs to lose weight). Kiki: 7 (17 is her favorite number). Melissa: 10 (causes extended banter; Brian removes her non-corrective glasses). Madison: 8 (7.5-8). Giana: 9 (gave 9 last time too). Andrew: 10. Brian teases everyone.
03:10:00
Age Photo Reaction
Brian pulls up old photos of panel members and has guests react/rate them. Extended banter about looking different without glasses.
03:19:00
MGK Fan Groping Video
Panel reacts to viral video of a married woman groping Machine Gun Kelly at a meet-and-greet while her husband watches. Debate about whether the husband was a 'cuck,' whether the hug was inappropriate, and whether she would sleep with MGK if given a pass. Panel is largely critical of the woman's behavior.
03:48:20
Courting Standards and Chivalry
Kiki raises topic of men not wanting to put in effort (not picking girls up, not planning dates). Extended debate about whether chivalry is dead and why. Andrew argues chivalry was tied to female chastity/virtue — if women aren't virtuous, why should men be chivalrous? Discussion of whether women should take husband's last name, who should pay on first date, submissiveness in relationships, traditional gender roles.
04:08:20
Traditional Gender Roles and Submission Debate
Extended debate spanning multiple hours about whether women should be submissive in relationships, whether traditional roles are valid, and hypocrisy of wanting traditional male behavior without reciprocal female behavior. Andrew presents argument that virtue is non-transactional. Brian creates 'The Office' clip analogy about wanting to be led only when in the mood.
04:41:40
DEI and Women in the Workforce
Debate about whether DEI initiatives are justified, whether women were historically oppressed in education, and whether women gravitate toward the same occupations as 200 years ago. Andrew cites Nordic Nations and Jordan Peterson on gender roles. Discussion of female architects designing more functional houses.
04:58:20
Dating Apps vs Meeting in Person
Sienna asks where to meet high-quality men outside of apps. Brian advises approaching in person (campus, activities). Discussion of social anxiety and how being fit helps. Sienna is candid about being overweight and needing to work on herself first.
06:15:00
Can You Be Racist Toward White People
Extended debate about the definition of racism. Alexis argues you cannot be racist toward white people (racism = prejudice + power). Brian presents Barack Obama hypothetical and Obama refusing to hire white janitor. Andrew challenges 'prejudice + power' definition using various examples including the Barbary slave trade. Various guests weigh in.
06:35:00
White Privilege and Systemic Racism
Continuation of racism debate. White privilege discussion — whether it's universal or only applicable to specific white groups (Irish, Italians, etc. weren't considered 'white'). Sienna (half Middle Eastern/El Salvadorian) discusses her perspective. Andrew argues that systems which say certain groups can't be racist create a systemic problem themselves.
08:06:40
Roast Session and Wrap-Up
Chat TTS donations come in roasting the panel. Discussion of Amber Heard's mathematical beauty, Elon Musk as potential date, McKenzie Scott. Brian admits his dad is from Algeria (North Africa) making him technically 'African-American.' Giana performs contortion backbend demo. Final TTS reads and show wrap-up.
Transcript
Page 5 of 11
03:48:49
Andrew Wilsonsacrifice becoming one flesh with him in the same way that you would become like the melted one person which would require taking his last name uh yeah then I mean why why should he give a
03:49:00
Andrew Wilson[ __ ] and ultimately when you're talking about what about protecting mom and sister and uh you know things like this well I would still say that that's a part of an honor code which has been
03:49:11
Andrew Wilsonpassed down and that is pre- shivel Rick roots to protect your own bloodline uh but that that has nothing to do with Ming and slaying a dragon for a complete
03:49:22
Andrew Wilsonstranger or for a woman that you're courting and taking care of all of her problems and whatever responsibilities you're going to adopt from that uh if they're not chased and pure on on their part for their virtue so it would just
03:49:34
Female Panel (mixed)be a one-sided contract being fulfilled then right if you if you feel like that is the most important thing to you then sure but I feel like I don't even think men really care about that much anymore
03:49:45
Andrew Wilsonat least I would say oh okay well let's test that let's see if that's true so let us assume for a moment that it was you and I don't know whatever guy you
03:49:55
Andrew Wilsonthink is a Chad okay okay it's you in your current state or it's you in your current state but you're a virgin and he had to take the pick right of marrying you which state do you think he'd prefer
03:50:06
Female Panel (mixed)you in like just a random Chad whatever random Chad you would be interested in I don't know I think he might take me
03:50:15
Andrew Wilsonfor who I am now why really knows how to suck a dick yeah oh yeah well I mean I mean it's not having sex is totally not intuitive it's not like people haven't
03:50:27
Andrew Wilsonbeen doing that since oh I don't know they gone a [ __ ] time super hard who could figure out that the PE PE goes in the who could ever how could you ever just this without having hundreds of
03:50:38
Andrew WilsonPartners filling you with seen how could this ever be Poss it's ridiculous procreation is a lot different than good sex [ __ ] it's ridicul well by the way
03:50:50
Andrew Wilsonwhat frame of reference would you have for what bad sex was if You' never had it with anybody else exactly but I I exactly so if you were a virgin and you ended up with a guy and you had sex with him you would have no frame of reference
03:51:03
Madisonto say it was bad you would know cuz you didn't orgasm yeah you would just think it's a you wouldn't know that you were even supposed to what would be your frame of reference well in the society people talk about it you're be like
03:51:13
Andrew Wilsonwhat's all the hype about that if more people were jaced and had virtue right this would even be a problem and the idea by the way that you can't grow in sexual compatibility with the person
03:51:25
Andrew Wilsonthat you're with is [ __ ] also crazy right and not everybody starts off with a great sex life and most people do end up with one because as you familiarize yourself with the needs of your wife or
03:51:35
Andrew Wilsonyour husband um over time you definitely can grow in sexual compatibility this idea that you have to go and try out the cow because otherwise you don't know it
03:51:46
Female Panel (mixed)gives you milk I think is [ __ ] crazy but that aside back to this where's the virtue part come well I I wasn't going to say just cuz the sex thing I was actually going to say because I have
03:51:57
Female Panel (mixed)more education I'm more established I I know what constit a good relationship a bad relationship all of it is you yeah right in your current form it's just
03:52:07
Andrew Wilsonyou're also a virgin or you're not a virgin which state do you think that that guy would prefer you in I think the guy would prefer the experience of course that's just my opinion you think so so I just want to let you I just I
03:52:21
Andrew Wilsonjust want to let you know the entailment of what you're saying MH that you think that any of the Omega Chads that you would be interested in if you could tell them hey look I've sucked 100 dicks
03:52:31
Andrew Wilsonversus I've sucked zero dicks they would go damn it damn it I would really prefer if you'd go out and suck 99 more penises so that you're worthy of me day do you
03:52:42
Andrew Wilsonreally think that does that even sound reasonable rational to you I I okay I understand where you're coming from however I feel like it's not a deal breaker I feel like the past that's not the question the question isn't whether
03:52:54
Andrew Wilsonit's a deal breaker the question is what state do you think he would prefer you in I'm and you say I he would prefer me in the state where IID suck 99 more
03:53:03
Andrew Wilsondicks than his I mean and I think that that sounds [ __ ] [ __ ] I know it sounds crazy to you and I thought you how to say that word that's the way you think like I don't know I wouldn't want
03:53:15
Female Panel (mixed)a virgin I would not want a virgin I would want a dude that's [ __ ] slammed clam and just like knows how to give it to me and women are different Let's test The Logical extension if I wasn't supposed to say the word I'm sorry I
03:53:28
Andrew Wilsondidn't know that that was against the violation but anyway um let's test this out what if it was a th000 dicks do you think that he would prefer that you sucked a thousand dicks to 100
03:53:39
Andrew Wilsondicks I don't know thousand dicks is a lot yeah but why I mean what's the threshold breaker 100 dicks isn't too much but a th dicks because just one Bridge Too Far then what's the difference between just like sleeping
03:53:52
Andrew Wilsonwith one guy a 100 times and sucking 100 dicks yeah well the difference is the extension of how many different dicks right and by the way it's also the idea of the revulsion comes from the Loyalty
03:54:03
Andrew Wilsonthreshold but so if a woman has been with one man let's say she's been with one man for 25 years okay and uh he dies and she's a widow okay her loyal
03:54:14
Andrew Wilsonthreshold for other men is extraordinarily high it's super high yeah right but if she slept with I don't know 60 guys right uh her loyalty
03:54:26
Andrew Wilsonthreshold for that man significantly decreases so this is where the revulsion portion also comes in for men I just would like to hear you repeat this though that you think whatever Chad you
03:54:37
Andrew Wilsonyou would be with what or that you would be interested in would vastly prefer all of the bodies and penises you've sucked and and [ __ ] and all this over having
03:54:48
Female Panel (mixed)you in your most chased form then that you honestly believe that I have a good question I have a good answer for that I would say a monogamous Chad would care A polyamorous Chad would not and I think
03:55:01
Brian Atlasthe reason why you and I differ as far as this statement is because our relationships are to marry you the Chad who wants to marry wait you're Polly right yeah can we just move this to like I it's just not even I don't know if
03:55:14
Andrew Wilsonit's even I'm like I'm like right there at the the end of The Exchange just real quick he's like so close to winning the argument guys so anyway you should cover up you
03:55:25
Andrew Wilsonshould cover up your panty shot but anyway back to where I was at um yeah I had to look but anyway back to where I was uh I would just I would just like to note that you think that the man you'd
03:55:37
Female Panel (mixed)be interested in marrying would actually prefer you to have the higher body count yeah yeah okay I'll leave it there okay but I hey that was interesting so I appreciate it yeah I enjoyed the
03:55:49
Brian Atlasexchange well I think it'd be interesting to bring it to perhaps one of the other girls here at the table uh who are in relationships or who have had relationships um because a lot of you
03:55:59
Brian Atlassite to well I'm more sexually experienced because I [ __ ] more men um I think men would rather have a low body count in general I that yes yeah like I just I don't think most men would so
03:56:13
Brian Atlashere's the entailment okay my girl will be better in bed but that entails she slept with an additional 10 or 20 men
03:56:23
Brian Atlasbefore meeting me I don't think most men are like going to make that tradeoff so like no man ever oh I really wish my girlfriend [ __ ] more men
03:56:34
Female Panel (mixed)before she met me said no man ever I don't think anyone thinks that no but I do think that like when you have like when you meet somebody you have a connection with them like I've never had
03:56:43
Female Panel (mixed)a guy guys I've never had a guy who meets me gets to know me likes me and is like not okay with who I've slept with because they get to know me they like me
03:56:52
Female Panel (mixed)they love me there's like love trumps everything and so yeah I've had a past you're who I meet now I'm loyal to you now period Point Blank by but if you don't like it then cool you're not for
03:57:03
Female Panel (mixed)me and I'm not for you I can also understand from your point there that um you know yes that that's true uh a lot of men will not like a girl with you
03:57:14
Female Panel (mixed)know will not be very attracted to the fact that a girl has uh you know I guess been around in that way as well as the fact that even maybe the girl will feel that way herself when when I was in my
03:57:26
Female Panel (mixed)relationship like and I'm you know it was true true love and everything like that I even wished that he was that I saved myself for him that I didn't hook up with all those you know other people
03:57:37
Female Panel (mixed)or that you know I didn't have a past because when you I I felt like it's it was that sacred that I I really wish that it had only been him but at the same time you can't turn back time but
03:57:50
Brian Atlassure obviously you you know and he accepted me you know and and um I do want to I do want to bring it bring it back to the topic of chivalry though um I was kind of away from the table there
03:58:01
Female Panel (mixed)for should it go both ways uh if if a guy wants a traditional girl she should be traditional and if a woman wants a more traditional guy he should be more traditional it's not one or the other there's both sides need to improve I
03:58:12
Brian Atlasthink in society sure I I would agree with that um but I think going back to your points you're saying well these men they aren't doing all this courtship stuff and I think Andrew asked this but
03:58:23
Brian AtlasI did want to go around the table on this um uh when you guys going around the table when you get married uh will you take your husband's name we put it together oh you you're already you're
03:58:34
Female Panel (mixed)married no but we've talked about and no we're not hyphenating we're making a whole new name together okay sure yes I'll take my husband's name yes yes definitely sure well sure what do you
03:58:46
Brian Atlasmean sure I mean you seem a bit on the fence with it how about this it's a bad last name does that change anything oh then I don't want his last name don't want his last name change anything for you not like something it's just I don't
03:58:58
Brian Atlasknow uh I didn't take my ex-husband's last fleel do or something I don't know some it's a bad last name you take his last name I think having his last name's hot okay you take it you don't take it
03:59:08
Madisonthough if I don't like it then no no really okay um I did take my husband's last name but partly because we were going to combine it and make a new one um then there was some drama going down
03:59:21
Madisonin my family right around the time that we got married and I said I do not want anything to do with that last name anymore I will take yours this is my new family okay what about you I'm keeping both so yes yeah like both my last name
03:59:32
Brian Atlasand his she's Hispanic so so you're you're hyphenating yes yes that's what I'm going to do okay and then GA what about you I would hyphenate as well you would hyphenate uh do you want a guy to pay for the last
03:59:45
Brian Atlasfirst date no do you you wanted the guy to pay for the first dat yes you wanted the guy pay for the uh what okay so just to be clear you want a guy to be traditional and do all this stuff but why won't you
03:59:57
Female Panel (mixed)be traditional yourselves it doesn't have to be traditional in all aspects oh so just the aspects I see just the aspects that benefit you he's got a point I mean I don't if my partner wants
04:00:10
Female Panel (mixed)me to take his last name sure if it's really significant to him and it like means the world to him absolutely I'm not going to fight against it I'm you you just said if it was like a bad last name if it was a bad last name I would be like okay maybe I don't want your
04:00:22
Brian Atlaslast name but I love you let's get married oh so you want to get married too you want to get married you want to get married how much should the guy spend on the ring I I don't give a [ __ ] I don't care so okay he he buys you an
04:00:34
Female Panel (mixed)Amazon cubic zonia wedding ring you're fine with it if if the proposal was sure ring um my mom's wedding ring broke my dad got her a cheap wedding ring and it literally broke she hasn't
04:00:46
Female Panel (mixed)had a wedding ring since since they've been married for 20 years he's never replaced it her wedding ring literally broke should have got her an allamerican steel band but so 20 bucks never break I want a secure ring I want a ring that stays together in what ways do you have
04:01:00
Female Panel (mixed)to be traditional do I personally yeah like what ways are you traditional um I don't I don't know I don't I wouldn't say I'm very traditional but you want a guy to pay for the first date yes because I
04:01:13
Female Panel (mixed)feel like paying for the first day you're paying for my time like I'm I feel I'm valuable as a as a woman and you're paying for your time to be with me no not a prostitute so wait why I'm
04:01:24
Brian Atlasgiving you my energy I'm giving you yeah so is he okay that's fine okay so you guys should go 50 then no the the same here the same exact amount of time that you spend on the date he spends on the
04:01:36
Female Panel (mixed)date too so well he's trying to court me I'm I'm the woman I'm going to be providing for the home essentially if you're about traditional women really on the first date what are you doing on the first date no I'm not I'm not saying on the
04:01:48
Female Panel (mixed)first date but if that's if that's the plan if we're planning to get married I as the woman am adding value as a woman right to the household so initially like you're courting me like I'm traditional
04:01:59
Brian Atlasin that sense then what what sense in the sense that I want to be courted you're traditional in the sense that you want the benefits of courtship
04:02:09
Brian Atlasum I am traditional in the sense I'm not against 50/50 right I'm a total I'm a I'm a [ __ ] boy I'm traditional in the sense that I want a virgin woman but I
04:02:20
Brian Atlaswon't pay for first dates and I'm not going to protect you I won't take the bullet for you I won't provide I won't protect I'm also like um super feminine
04:02:31
Female Panel (mixed)I'm not masculine like all these things I'm totally reasonable totally is that is that a fair proposition no you have to be on the same caliber as me you have to be also adding value you won't take a
04:02:42
Brian Atlasguy's last name I would I I never said I wouldn't I said you say you would you if if I didn't like it we can have that conversation we could be yeah why does that matter because maybe don't want the ugly last name yeah but what okay
04:02:54
Brian Atlaswouldn't the the sheer tradition of a woman taking a Man's last name Trump your superficial desire to have a cool last name no we can discuss that if that's if
04:03:07
Brian Atlasyou're TR disc okay we can discuss me paying for you on the first aid absolutely can let's have a discussion I want to negotiate this I want to negotiate our gender roles okay I'm not
04:03:17
Andrew Wilsongoing to pay on the first date okay yeah okay cool is that a hard no we probably wouldn't go on a date yeah right exactly it would it be a hard no if we wouldn't
04:03:28
Female Panel (mixed)pay for the date right I mean I I think it depends if I really like to if we got a time to know each other I'm going to say yes we get a little place is to get to know each other well in modern dating
04:03:41
Female Panel (mixed)we're usually I don't know maybe it's an Instagram DM maybe we I don't know T you usually get to know each other you know like on a date yes yeah like getting coffee together I think you should run errands
04:03:53
Female Panel (mixed)together and build an Ikea furniture that's cute too that's so I love that I would [ __ ] it didn't work out Road look I guess sound like a date
04:04:04
Female Panel (mixed)those all sound like dates though who's paying for the IKEA furniture we'll just steal it that was actually a great great example of a first date he took me on
04:04:16
Female Panel (mixed)the date he went with me he built the furniture I paid for the furniture he showed me he liked me he did it I paid for it no money spent by came over and put your furniture together what the guy
04:04:28
Backgroundcame over and put your furniture together for you he sure did it's a 100% requirement me did he get did he get some eventually yeah like he was my he was my boyfriend for a while oh but he
04:04:40
Female Panel (mixed)had to wait he had he came over he did the handyman stuff and then left that's a hard like pass it was a fun date we like got to know each other yeah I mean it's not so black and white as oh he built my first tribe sex with him no
04:04:52
Brian Atlaslike we got to know each other we hung out Co um so that's cool cool story bro um so going back to you you were mentioning the court courtship stuff um and perhaps all of you the other of you
04:05:04
Brian Atlaswho said men should pay for First Dates how about this like if we're talking about should claims right if we're talking about what men should do what women should do uh men should pay for
04:05:15
Brian Atlasfirst AIDS fair I think so men should pay for first AIDS men should pay for first AIDS uh what about this should women should be virgins
04:05:25
Female Panel (mixed)Fair no no not fair should be virgins women should be virgins no no is that fair are you saying like wait
04:05:36
Brian Atlastill marriage is that your stance I'm just I'm just throwing out a should statement should thetically women should be women should wait till marriage is that your stance yeah sometimes the tables don't turn
04:05:48
Brian Atlasthat way how about this a woman should be submissive to her husband what is that in what do you mean by that oh I don't know you're the traditionalist here shouldn't you know I'm not no I'm not like a hardcore traditionalist that's why I since when is being
04:06:00
Brian Atlassubmissive hardcore that's like bare minimum submissive in what ways are you describe submissive how do I Define submissive how do you define it submissive I mean there's different definitions I mean the perhaps more milk
04:06:13
Female Panel (mixed)toast definition would be willful cooperation and letting the men lead yes there's this quote that uh I've always heard where my mom used to say to me uh men are the head woman are the neck yeah men can think they're in control but guy with the head the woman can be like over
04:06:27
Female Panel (mixed)there over there over there the head can't do [ __ ] without the neck but you let them feel like they're in charge sure but you're the neck yeah no um I'm in
04:06:35
Female Panel (mixed)charge where's your neck Brian's in charge guys okay say say it's that way right but let's say it's not so black and white how about this deferring to his leadership okay sure it's like
04:06:49
Brian Atlasattractive that would be submissive okay sure sure okay okay sure I would you I'm just curious you want a guy you want a guy to like do courtship if he said okay
04:06:59
Brian Atlassure I'll do courtship okay roll his he whatever I guess yeah like okay bro y'all y'all like y like men have to do courtship oh the men have to really and
04:07:12
Brian Atlaswould you like be like the guy's like [ __ ] I guess I'll do I guess I'll do courtship no the man should be enthusiastic about his rules you got to be enthusiastic a Man created a safe
04:07:23
Female Panel (mixed)enough if a man created a safe enough space for a woman to be submissive then so be it true I agree woman are not and uncomfortable unsafe situations so it's just
04:07:34
Brian Atlasconditional why if a man is creating an unsafe environment why would the woman be submissive I got this so hold on I in the current dating landscape I as a guy acknowledge that there are women who
04:07:46
Brian Atlaswill use me for dates who want to do a foodie call they've actually done studies on this something like I I don't know if it's one in three or two and three women have have aged like you
04:07:57
Brian Atlasdon't actually like you've done a foodie call where you were maybe just bored and you're like I guess I'll go on the date but I'm really not that interested but if he's like really impressive cool
04:08:07
Brian Atlasyou'll go on the date just for like the [ __ ] of it right um so wouldn't that be if the guys like like oh okay I'm only going to go 50/50 with girls because like a lot of women move this way they're just trying to like get a free
04:08:19
Female Panel (mixed)experience free meal whatever I'm going to wait to pay for first aid how about this if a man goes 50/50 with me that's not like why would I be like completely submissive to a man that goes 50/50
04:08:31
Female Panel (mixed)obviously he can't like handle handle it you know what I mean that's so yeah like I'm not going to be submissive to a guy that goes 50/50 like that's an unsafe environment for me theoretically well then the guy should not pay for a first
04:08:43
Brian Atlasdate with with a woman who is not submissive you're saying if I feel safe to be submissive if I feel safe to be a provider given the current dating landcape I can agree with that I can agree with that oh but you won't even
04:08:55
Brian Atlasgive me you won't even give the 50-50 guy a chance so why should the traditional guy give you a chance and he's got to wait around for you to be safe and feel comfortable to be submissive because that's like his one job like Pro whatever if we're going to
04:09:08
Female Panel (mixed)talk your one job's to be submissive then okay sure sure whatever no but you're oh sure sure I'll be no only if like [ __ ] but there's two different types of like let's talk about like the domination whatever there's two different types I'm not talking about
04:09:21
Female Panel (mixed)BDSM that's what I'm talking about either that's the that's the counter word to the word you're saying why is it a problem when I say domination when you say submissive we're talking about in like a social aspect sexual you hold on you're
04:09:32
Female Panel (mixed)saying what's the other word what's the inverse word to submissive why is it bad when I say it dominance sorry no it would be it would essentially but that's that's like a minor detail what I'm trying to say is why yeah I guess if you're in a okay like let's say you're
04:09:45
Female Panel (mixed)in a safe enough like relationship where like you feel taken care of and you feel smart and you feel like okay if you give your submissiveness is he going to throw that in your face and make you feel bad about yourself or unsafe no he's strong enough to where you don't feel bad about
04:09:58
Female Panel (mixed)yourself you can fail and succeed in front of him and he won't judge you and maybe like etc etc etc but I don't want to sit here and be like Oh woman are submissive to men in the house and I you know I don't want to sound stupid but like to a certain extent like yeah
04:10:09
Andrew Wilsontaking his last name is hot okay sure it is but sub Mission with submission with the with condition is not submission it's condition well okay so I've asked you before how would you define a woman being submissive in the house you do what you're told that's submissive even
04:10:22
Andrew Wilsonif you even if you don't feel comfortable with it at all would you ask your wife to kill someone for you reason so like if a guy were to say oh I don't know like oh jump off that bridge right that would not comport with reason but
04:10:36
Andrew Wilsonas long as what he's saying comports with reason then yeah if you're in if you're in a a relationship with a man it would be my world view at least that yeah submission means you do what you're told what is can you give like an
04:10:47
Female Panel (mixed)example of like doing what you're told whatever I tell you to do you do it I mean I guess that's what it means I I guess maybe maybe I'm wrong here but isn't like a marriage I don't
04:10:59
Andrew Wilsonknow here let me I'll just give you an example right you see the cup in front of you right now to the to the gall in red the gall in the red shirt to answer your question what does that mean you see the cup in front of you yeah okay pick it up real
04:11:12
Andrew Wilsonquick you don't make me feel safe I'm not you're not my man example I'm just going to give you a demonstration of what I'm talking about it has it's not a gotcha literally it's not I was I was
04:11:24
Andrew Wilsongoing to make a half full never mind I was going to make an analogy but I guess you want to be a smart alec about it uh I guess you can okay you want me to pick up the cup what is that the cup what does this do for you yeah like that that's how you
04:11:37
Female Panel (mixed)submit like that that's such a stupid analogy I can't even like it's an like isn't a marriage more like you're both a
04:11:47
Female Panel (mixed)team right I guess I guess in some ways there are I guess in some ways I guess yes I think somebody's compensating for I guess in some ways there is submissiveness and I guess it depends on
04:11:58
Andrew Wilsoneach person yeah well I mean it's true say like Andre Andre Andrew let her finish Andre Andre I think fa Andrew just let her finish go ahead and I don't want to sound stupid here I think I
04:12:10
Female Panel (mixed)think from everyone gets a different impression of what marriage is or what they think it's going to be from how they're raised and their environment a lot of the times but okay
04:12:20
Female Panel (mixed)say I am submissive that's that's fine with me if there's and if if it's within reason right like you said like what he's asking you to do I do think it's
04:12:29
Female Panel (mixed)nice when to when a male takes the lead in in a marriage or relationship but not just a marriage and a relationship you the second you meet a
04:12:41
Brian Atlasman you want him to lead yes yes meet me here at this time I'm going to pick you up we're going here we're doing this this is what we're
04:12:51
Brian Atlaseating yeah yes you want it's not just oh in marriage you want him to be a leader well I didn't I'm sorry I didn't think you guys meet okay go ahead well
04:13:01
Female Panel (mixed)then I I guess so what's your so then being subm immedi submissive okay okay well then if there's if it works it works if if you know if we're both
04:13:13
Female Panel (mixed)attracted to each other and you know I guess I'll be submissive and they'll be dominant that's fine and the way they they'll they'll pick the time I'll be there I'll be in a whatever just claim y'all are modern women just claim you're
04:13:26
Brian Atlasmodern women I get what's the definition you think are modern woman I don't think anyone denied that they're a modern woman this is 2024 not medal times you're right y'all are modern women
04:13:36
Brian Atlasy'all are modern women but you still like to receive the benefits of male traditional gender RS I also like to do traditional rolls as well yeah yeah M like I think there can be I don't think
04:13:48
Brian Atlasit's black and white I mean you think we're not deserving at all of any no offense no offense taken but I do only F you're not traditional like yeah you're a point that's the least traditional
04:13:59
Brian Atlasthat aspect I'm not traditional and other aspects I am and like okay what's your argument I mean it's kind of like it would be like me saying as a guy oh yeah like I'm traditional like I open
04:14:12
Brian Atlasyour car door like you're going to pay for [ __ ] everything on the date does that make me traditional oh if there's like a safety situation or like there's
04:14:22
Brian Atlasa fight that breaks out uh you're going to defend me and I'm going to like oh there's a spider's a sper yeah the girl is going to defend you cuz you can't touch her if there's a spider you got to
04:14:33
Brian Atlaskill that [ __ ] I have traditional ways and I have non-traditional ways and I I think I that's what I just said is no black and white I think it to some degree is it is a spectrum like some
04:14:43
Brian Atlaspeople could not be fully like 100% traditional there could be like a spectrum to it but I think like when it comes to y'all you guys even like you could be super woke Progressive like
04:14:55
Brian Atlassuper liberal super feminist not traditional at all but you still acknowledge that traditional treatment
04:15:03
Brian Atlasfrom men is way better than like modern treatment from men and so despite you all being modern non-traditional
04:15:14
Brian Atlaswomen you've to look you've totally forsaken abandoned cast aside your traditional gender roles but with the utmost entitlement you still expect men to adhere to their traditional gender
04:15:27
Female Panel (mixed)roles I see where you're coming from with that and um okay so say say okay uh we're not virgins we're not
04:15:38
Female Panel (mixed)traditional we're we're more modern I guess and what we're expecting and what we desire right so that means that are we just maybe or do how do both people
04:15:50
Female Panel (mixed)how does how should the woman then change if she's not traditional but if she wants something traditional how should the woman change and what should she do and also um
04:16:02
Female Panel (mixed)how is the man still going to like AC accept her and is is she just kind of used Goods is if she's not a virgin anymore is there still hope that she can like I can answer the question it's a
04:16:14
Andrew Wilsongood question so let me let me steal man it first to make sure I got it correct and then if I got it correct um I'll go ahead and answer it so your question is well I don't understand though if we've
04:16:25
Andrew Wilsonbroken all the virtue and this and that but we we want to go back right we want to in some way do this differently this time what are the things that we can do to do that is that is that essentially
04:16:37
Andrew Wilsonwhat the question is or are are these women just broken and busted and no longer worthy of anything is that what you're asking of course I should do my part as he should do his part so how should I do my part then yeah well one
04:16:50
Andrew Wilsonthing that goes a long way for men is submission okay so the idea of traditionalism right or the idea of if if you you generally you want a man of high virtue he's going to expect
04:17:01
Female Panel (mixed)submission that's going to be at least one thing he's going to expect however if you want a low virtue man the often don't give a [ __ ] so it's it's kind of up to you but oh yeah no no so submission okay I understand and all of
04:17:13
Female Panel (mixed)but there is a clear thing of no one's better than the other right there's we're both loyal to each other we both love each other and we both are I guess in a way a team so that we can create a healthy living environment for
04:17:24
Andrew Wilsonour children te that's the opposite of submission so the the idea so the idea of Virtues between men and women are very different the idea for masculine virtues for instance are going to be
04:17:34
Andrew Wilsonthings like bravery they're going to be things like um what could be perceived as as uh what she was talking about with chivalry where you're the protector you're the the guider there's all sorts of different virtues that you can
04:17:46
Andrew Wilsonassociate with masculinity feminine virtues are things like Chastity right uh gracefulness empathy these are these are various forms right but not leadership that's not a that's not a
04:17:59
Andrew Wilsonfeminine virtue it's a masculine virtue it's a it's a male male male sided virtue so the thing is is that of course virtuous men expect that from women they expect them to fall into their feminine
04:18:09
Andrew Wilsonroles as virtuous women otherwise they simply don't think that you have virtue they consider you vexing or willful or things like this go ahead so are you kind of saying that men like are you really talking through and through
04:18:21
Female Panel (mixed)traditional in a sense of a household where men go to work and the woman stays at home is that what you're referring to well women have always worked whe I'm talking about a traditional traditional household like you're referring to with submission is that what you're referring you're asking trying to answer the
04:18:34
Female Panel (mixed)question CU I feel like my question is I feel like now like you say men want submission but I also feel like to a certain extent they really don't like they'll make fun of you you don't have a j they'll make fun of you if you're not like contributing so it's like they want everything they want you to make money
04:18:47
Andrew Wilsonbut like less money than them you think that a contribution or minor contributions to the household or working towards some shared interest or goal or something like this has anything
04:18:57
Andrew Wilsonto do with virtue because it doesn't the idea that okay you're in a two income economy or something like that so requires two incomes doesn't have any
04:19:07
Andrew Wilsonbearing whatsoever on the nature of your virtuousness none not for men and not for women so yeah there could be an expectation that women at times contribute to the household or perhaps the entire time they contribute to the
04:19:20
Andrew Wilsonhousehold there's no other way around it so what how does that affect a man's virtue or a woman's I don't I don't I don't even understand that so you're talking about submission yeah submission
04:19:31
Andrew Wilsonyeah you're give so she's submitting to a man yet she makes significantly more money than him I'm not saying that's a bad it's not transactional virtue can't be bought you can't be like oh well the thing is I make as much money as you so
04:19:43
Female Panel (mixed)I don't have to be [ __ ] virtuous that makes no sense I have a I have a question so what constitutes as a leader cuz you are you saying that women can't be leaders well yeah they they can be
04:19:56
Andrew Wilsonleaders to some some extent some regard sure but they're never going to lead societies ever why do you feel that way uh because it's Force Doctrine so
04:20:06
Andrew Wilsonessentially just operates this way um when it comes to power dynamics men are always going to have a advantage over force and since they have an advantage
04:20:16
Andrew Wilsonover Force women will always have to appeal to men for protection and rights and men will never have to appeal to women for that so if let's say let's say this women are typically better at
04:20:29
Female Panel (mixed)multitasking and men are typically stronger I just want I just want to make Point that's true that's true I I'll just grant it I'll just grant it I could be wrong I just want to I want to hear your take on this cuz I I honestly think
04:20:41
Female Panel (mixed)you're a very good debater and I I wanted just to tickle your brain on this um so I would say women are a pretty pretty good at multitasking they can handle a lot of things at once and I'd
04:20:52
Female Panel (mixed)say men men can definitely have more force and more strength over over women but I feel like wouldn't it be better to run the world off of a computer than a hammer uh well who who's going to make
04:21:05
Female Panel (mixed)the computer and who's going to make the hammer I mean me just I feel like they they have to kind of go they have to kind of go together if you're only the hammer you're going to be a caveman if you're only a computer you're not going
04:21:15
Andrew Wilsonto have I don't know well who's going to make the computer though and who's going to maintain the computer systems and who's going to write all the software for them and by the way then there's the thing that we need each other let's
04:21:28
Female Panel (mixed)assume for a second it's all women who do that and men just decide one day ah [ __ ] them we're going to go take their computers what can women do about that I mean women build computers too but what
04:21:37
Andrew WilsonI'm saying I'm saying is society goes better I'm say's just assume women built all the computers all of them every of them
04:21:49
Andrew Wilsonin existence and men one day collectively went ah [ __ ] we I want all their computers we want all their computers and they just went and well took them what could women do about that but I'm not saying that I'm not saying
04:22:02
Female Panel (mixed)computer as an object I'm saying women are smart and they're great at multitasking they are the computer of society and then you have men they are the hammer they are the boot they are the enforcer of society you can't you can't just put one of them in the corner
04:22:15
Andrew Wilsonthere's you can get so much more wait are you talking about IQ no not just IQ I understand what she's saying what she's saying here is if women are better multitaskers right they can do various
04:22:26
Andrew Wilsontasks in a more efficient way and so they act women act in society as like a central task allocating computation machine then shouldn't you give that
04:22:37
Female Panel (mixed)task to women because they're better at it right is that correct yeah for for the betterment of societ like cuz women can be leaders I feel like a computer something that's multitasking something that could tell people what to do what
04:22:47
Andrew Wilsonwhere to do it mhm that they can still be a leader and haven't tried hang on hang on I'm granting your argument I just gave it back to you so I'll just respond to it that's literally what
04:22:59
Andrew Wilsonwomen do right now they're in the charges and jobs that they have are designed specifically around this there school teachers they're in the service industry they do all this type of [ __ ]
04:23:09
Andrew Wilsonbut whether or not you're a great task manager whatever that means or you're you know in some way great at Logistics or something like this uh who cares you're not going to go up on the top of
04:23:20
Andrew Wilsonthe mountains in order to fix power lines you're not going to be doing uh oil rig work you're not going to be doing any of the type of work which keep Society Running and you don't have the force necessary the requisite
04:23:32
Andrew Wilsoncompositional Force necessary to make men do what you want through anything other than subtle manipulation so if men ever decide at any time to exercise Force Doctrine women can't do anything
04:23:44
Female Panel (mixed)about it now if you want examples of that I give you every Muslim Nation on planet Earth right now no I understand that but I would also tell you that the majority of countries that are led by women are the happiest in the world the
04:23:56
Andrew WilsonNordic Nations mhm yeah that's not true so this metric comes from the United Nations right and the UN the UN polls on the uh the metrics for happiness are actually quite silly and I could
04:24:09
Andrew Wilsonactually if you ever wanted to I could go go through them with you so that you understood this but you can go through them line item by line item and they're quite silly if you look at depression rates in Nordic Nations it actually makes sense why so many people they are
04:24:20
Andrew Wilsondepressed because it's always snowy and cold and dark and drab uh so they go off of other metrics like oh they make more money per capita they do this per capita but not actually off of mental illness depression rates things like this they
04:24:33
Andrew Wilsongo off of completely different metrics than you or I would use to determine happiness yeah but I also say that there you know their countries go ahead Brian I apologize I got to get bring it back
04:24:45
Brian Atlashere otherwise we're going to be here till 2: a.m. I understand go ahead um I guess to kind of put a cap on the whole submission conversation um I'm just a little bit confused especially with you because you have like
04:24:57
Brian Atlassignificant uh and detailed criticisms about men's conduct when it comes to uh courtship like you're like oh we need to move back towards men courting
04:25:09
Brian Atlaswomen in your pre-show notes and everything that you said tonight night you said men wanting to receive men not needing to put in the work what is this work that you purport it is that men need to put in you said uh they uh like
04:25:22
Brian Atlaspicking a girl up paying on the first date uh not putting in effort uh leading this sort of thing I'm just I'm confused here on one hand you're holding men to the this pretty rigid traditional gender
04:25:34
Brian Atlasrole uh on the one hand you want to completely forgive uh I guess any sort of expectations or relinquish any sort of expectations that ought to be placed on
04:25:44
Brian Atlaswomen when it comes to them being uh traditional uh another way of saying this would be submissive submissive has like a lot of really bad connotations in my opinion maybe like because you listen
04:25:56
Brian Atlasto a bunch of feminist propaganda but what are the bad
04:26:03
Female Panel (mixed)connotations said in my opinion what are the bad connotations but I'm not I mean obviously I feel stupid just sitting here and being like yeah I'll be submissive to my like like that makes me feel like that's sounds stupid I mean wait so what sounds stupid you saying oh
04:26:15
Female Panel (mixed)yeah I'd be submissive to my boyfriend husband I mean I feel like I would to a certain extent to a certain extent yeah okay I guess like yeah I like but I feel like that sounds silly to say like that
04:26:26
Brian Atlassounds like bad do you think it'd be bad for me to say I want to be uh I want to be a leader and protect my be a protector and a provider because if the sort of like corresponding gender roles
04:26:37
Brian Atlashere man protect and provide woman be uh submissive why is it weird for the woman to just say that she's submissive like why is that I feel like it sounds weird I mean
04:26:49
Female Panel (mixed)I would be but I just feel like it sounds [ __ ] weird you think you think men don't want submissive women they want like contentious and like Coral some women you think that's what men want I mean some guys do I guess the guys that I okay the guy can I can I
04:27:02
Female Panel (mixed)finish the guy that I would marry would probably I would probably be like more submissive yeah cuz he'd probably be like the opposite side of that proba you're currently in a relationship right now with a good guy yeah would you be submissive to him yeah are you
04:27:14
Female Panel (mixed)submissive to him yeah what's the definition of submissive I don't know why that's crazy which is sound crazy he's your man you should be submissive you are so yeah but but I do want to know what's the definition of submissive
04:27:27
Brian AtlasI should have looked that up but I actually don't know the exact definition I mean there's I kind of my interpretation would be like uh deferring to his authority or leadership
04:27:37
Female Panel (mixed)okay so it's like well we're not children I think that like to a certain yes like Yes Man leads we follow sure but like but I think to a certain extent
04:27:48
Female Panel (mixed)yet like to just fully submit to somebody is is a little bit crazy we are both adults we are equal oh oh I feel like that leaves room for them to hold it over your head that's theary part if
04:27:59
Brian Atlaswe're both equal then we should equally contribute to on a first date then right sure okay so you're totally fine with yes splitting the bill yep okay even like these women here they should also split the bill yeah because they're
04:28:11
Brian Atlasequal right yeah yeah okay so why why are why aren't you having criticisms for these women who
04:28:19
Brian Atlashave but I guess uh on this it's just um I guess kind of my conflict here is you
04:28:30
Brian Atlaskind of want your cake and to eat it too like on one hand you want to push your liberal feminist Progressive equality values you mentioned equality uh or equal as far as humanly possible work is
04:28:42
Brian Atlasfine men are insecure for not wanting to date a woman who has I'm not just let me make my argument uh a man's insecure for not wanting to date a woman who has other men blasting inside of them no modesty
04:28:54
Brian Atlaswhen it comes to their appearance no modesty in their conduct um you want to sleep sleep with a bunch of men and be promiscuous uh you want to be like corome in relationships and like argumentative and like uh combative you
04:29:07
Brian Atlasdon't want like you don't want to be submissive on the other hand when it comes to your sexist and gendered expectations of men you you may as well be 1950s bachelorettes you want men to be
04:29:18
Brian Atlaschivalrous providers protectors leaders take all the initiative pay for dates open car doors get you flowers get down on one knee propose to you etc etc etc I
04:29:30
Brian Atlasjust it's interesting you want to pick and choose when it comes to tradition you want to pick and choose all you get to keep all the traditional benef things that benefit you without upholding any
04:29:42
Female Panel (mixed)of the traditional benefits that could conceivably come at your detriment well we could say the same thing you want a virgin yet you begging to sleep with us on the first date
04:29:56
Female Panel (mixed)so like I mean I think it's I think it's very like person to person I don't care about this argument because like I know my per like it's just I don't align with this and that's cool but like I'm just
04:30:06
Brian Atlassaying like yes you want a virgin yet you are begging to sleep with us with us on the first I'll I'll just actually address that really quick what do you think is more common men refusing to date women because they're not virgins or women refusing to date men because
04:30:19
Female Panel (mixed)they won't pay for the bill um what's more common I'm I have no idea the statistics on that I don't care I don't literally give a [ __ ] to be honest would no I don't give a [ __ ] about I don't not give a [ __ ] about the whole thing I don't give a [ __ ] if they pay on the
04:30:31
Brian Atlasfirst date or not yeah but you've heard from like four women at and so I'm say yeah it might be it might be more common for that yeah so I would argue that there's far were men whose standard is
04:30:43
Brian Atlasshe has to be a virgin I would argue probably 50% or more of women expectation because you have to consider like conservative women their expectations and there I don't know the
04:30:54
Brian Atlasexact breakdown of like conservative women to Liberal women maybe it's 45 55 in any case there's even liberal women maybe some of you here are liberal women still want the guy to pay for the first date so it's like a majority of women
04:31:07
Female Panel (mixed)want men to pay for the first aid I'd say it's probably like less than 5% of men like deal breaker argument with you is this because you guys have both said that a woman's like value goes down if she doesn't have sex on the first day that's why my argument is cuz I wouldn't
04:31:19
Female Panel (mixed)have an argument anyways because I don't agree that most men want a virgin like I don't agree that I do agree that a lot of women would like a guy to pay on the first dat no I think most men realize it's unlikely that they're going to be able to get a virgin but if it was like
04:31:32
Brian Atlasif you asked most men would you prefer to date a virgin or a woman who slept with 20 men I'm pretty confident like 99% of men are going to say I'd prefer to date the Virgin well and even if you were to just kind of Grant it and say
04:31:45
Andrew Wilsonokay maybe most men wouldn't prefer to have a virgin um you would agree at least that most men would likely prefer to have a woman who has less of a body count
04:31:54
Andrew Wilsonright yes yeah so what's the least amount of bodies you can possibly have we have a word for that what do we call
04:32:05
Female Panel (mixed)them virgins virgins uh I'm going to do a couple chats here Gian I'm going to have you read them go ahead thank you Michael Smith to help if a woman expects a man
04:32:16
Female Panel (mixed)to protect and is an attempt to protect he says go right and you go left toward danger he can't protect without control he can't protect true Michael Smith
04:32:29
Female Panel (mixed)thank you so much for the uh Super Chat man I appreciate it uh let's see we're going to do this one also from Michael Smith I'm gonna have you read this one hey Brian look if a man is supposed to
04:32:40
Female Panel (mixed)protect you while on a date how does he do that if he says go right and you go left I think this is the same one in a group of two if the woman leads the man
04:32:49
Brian Atlascan't protect it's like I don't know to me the my interpretation here of like the demands for chivalry the demands of like certain courtship procedures when it
04:33:00
Female Panel (mixed)comes to dating you want men to be leaders but you don't want to follow well that's why I think the submissive compensation where it's like that's why you should only give like the submissiveness to a guy that's actually
04:33:12
Female Panel (mixed)worthy of it because what if a guy leads you in the wrong direction that's why I'm saying like per yeah so it comes down to women feel like they know more than men and if you find a man that knows more than you do you're
04:33:24
Andrew Wilsonmore willing to submit to them or they create a safe environment yeah but it's just to me I don't know it's interesting like what is a safe environment sh like what does that mean what is environment I don't know like if
04:33:37
Female Panel (mixed)if somebody was if I was being submissive to somebody and they're like shoot up heroin that would probably be like a bad thing but I understand like within reason and logic too but I think women are can you find the office video Daman oh sorry yeah that I mean that
04:33:49
Female Panel (mixed)wouldn't for but also if I I would protect my man against a girl that was trying to beat him up that would be my job I would tell him to go left and I'd be this girl's butt like a baby I have it I'm going to
04:34:02
Brian Atlassend it to you in the private chat here um yeah I'm going to send it to you here man uh we'll I think we'll wait till she's back from actually [ __ ] it we'll just watch it
04:34:13
Brian Atlaswhatever she was kind of the one who was I was kind of having the convo with but um actually do we wait here why we wait just a second here why don't you pull up twitch guys go to twitch.tv whatever
04:34:25
Brian Atlasdrop us a follow and a prime sub if you have one guys twitch.tv/ whatever it's been an hour since we last had a prime I think it's bugged seizure sack thank you for the prime an hour ago man I think it's bugged though can you guys drop a little Prime sub in the chat I would
04:34:38
Brian Atlashave really appreciate it also drop us a follow guys get us to uh 97 ,300 followers before the end of the stream boys I would really appreciate that if you have Amazon Prime you can link it to your Twitch it's a quick free easy way
04:34:49
Brian Atlasto support the show every single month you can send the Amazon Prime benefits are great so just you know if you want to get it you buy a lot of [ __ ] on Amazon but don't have Prime get the prime then you can link it to Twitch quick for you easy way to support the
04:35:00
Madisonshow every single month and then uh she's not quite yet back from the table can I add something to the last part um so you're saying women want their cake and it too because they want a man to
04:35:13
Madisonlead but then they don't want to like submit or whatever but I could say the same about you guys because you want a submissive woman but you don't want to fully Dominate and protect and provide if you still want her to have a job and
04:35:24
Madisoncontribute financially to the household if that's your job say that Andrew did a two income economy that that has nothing to do with any of this I think it does well it doesn't have anything to do with
04:35:34
Andrew Wilsonthe virtues that's what that was what my position was I don't if you're if you're saying that sub why do I have to provide but if you're saying that submission should only happen if the man makes more money than
04:35:47
Andrew Wilsonyou do that's not what she was saying she's just harping on like what you were saying does she have a mouth pardon I'm assuming she can speak for herself since she addressed me so I was just
04:35:57
Andrew Wilsonaddressing her back so so yeah so yeah I mean just to to just very quickly have the exchange um so I was talking about virtues and I
04:36:09
MadisonI don't understand why whether or not you make more money than him or he makes more money than you this would have anything to do with the idea of the virtues I'm just saying if you're the provider and I'm submitting then why
04:36:20
Andrew Wilsonwould I have to provide to you want to complet tradtional well it defeats the it defeats the purpose it's transactional that por it's literally a prostitute mentality because what you're
04:36:30
Andrew Wilsonlooking at then is purely transactional yes I'll submit and [ __ ] you and whatever you want as long as you're giving me money that is the opposite of virtue it's literally
04:36:42
Andrew Wilson180° inversion of what virtue is it's it's a it's literal prostitution mentality uh and that's not that's not even designed to affront you it's just
04:36:53
Madisondesigned to express the idea that virtue is not transactional it you think it's prostitution for a man to pay for the first date that's transactional but that's definitely not prostitution by almost everybody's standards no I didn't
04:37:06
Andrew Wilsonsay it's prostitution I said it's prostitute mentality where everything in that's relationship based between men and women from a woman's perspective becomes only transactional virtues are
04:37:17
Andrew Wilsonnot to be compromised on simply because of money or something like this so you don't go well I'll submit to a good man as long as he's fulfilling this material
04:37:28
Andrew Wilsondesire that I have in this case he has more money than me that would that would be hang on that would be an inversion of virtue that would literally be the opposite of virtue isn't men's entire purpose to like theoretically we
04:37:40
Female Panel (mixed)thinking about gather or kill the deer bring it home cook it and woman like maintain everything well then why don't we I'm not saying pardon then why don't we just put all of you in cages Fu like
04:37:52
Andrew Wilsonhonest question why wouldn't if if it is the case that men's entire purpose is to just grunt real loud and go out and kill deer and bring it home uh as we become more sophisticated and we're still the
04:38:04
Andrew Wilsonstrong dominant sex why don't men just go ahead and round up all the women and stuff their asses in cages and then just do whatever we want not submitting
04:38:12
Female Panel (mixed)because you like enir chill out before you freak out the reason the reason no they could is because of the idea of virtue
04:38:24
Female Panel (mixed)that's why but they have done that in like a lot of Muslim countries like women are basically cages in their house stuck in cages in Muslim count not in cages but being stuck in a home and you're not allowed to even speak outside I would say that's a literal cage yeah
04:38:36
Andrew Wilsonthey're allowed to speak outside that's ridiculous nonsense no no that's a real like no no it's really it's ridiculous nonsense what happens instead is this is that women for their own safety uh are
04:38:48
Andrew Wilsonnot allowed to walk un accompanied without a man now you it's really funny because women here will be the first to say well it's not safe to walk around outside by myself because so many men are barbaric brutes who will essay you
04:39:00
Andrew Wilsonand so the Muslim nations are like oh yeah well then you can't walk around at night without a man who's escorting you so that that doesn't happen and you don't get deflowered and diverted and
04:39:10
Andrew Wilsonwomen go I can't believe that you would be so barbaric as to as to not allow me to go out at night where it's totally unsafe and these mean old barbaric men are going to essay everybody I can't
04:39:23
Female Panel (mixed)believe it's re that's more having my cake and eating it too no but I I really feel like you should look it up maybe I maybe I'm wrong but I know Jennifer Lawrence is doing an entire movie called bread and roses and it's about women in
04:39:35
Brian AtlasI think Iran or Iraq speak I'm sorry I God moved on just I got move on but look it up maybe I'm wrong all right uh I do want to pull up two videos so first we're going to do
04:39:45
SPEAKER_01the office uh video uh go ahead and play that for us pay attention I got away with everything under the last boss and
04:39:54
SPEAKER_01it wasn't good for me at all so I want guidance I want leadership but don't just like boss me around you know like
04:40:03
Brian AtlasLead Me lead me when I'm in the mood to be led so this is like exactly the the when it comes down to dating it's like you
04:40:15
Brian Atlasyou're attracted to and you want a guy who like will do kind of those more tradition traditional masculine things uh so you want a leader but you don't want to be a follower because the feminism into in you has like said oh
04:40:28
Brian Atlasokay like can't be a follower can't be submissive but also like base evolutionary biological level really attracted and prefer men who are like decisive masculine leaders etc etc
04:40:39
Brian Atlasdominant whatever it is attract Ed to it but also in my head can't do it because feminism told me not to that's you guys I mean I feel like because we're very educated now like I
04:40:51
Female Panel (mixed)said like we like what's that have to do with anything I feel like when girls feel like they're smarter and they know better than the guy then they don't really submit to them because they're like why I agree that's just so you're
04:41:03
Female Panel (mixed)are you actually never mind no my my boyfriend is smarter than me he has to remind me all the time Hey listen and I go you know what you're right and as Andrew mentioned we
04:41:14
Madisonaren't like in caveman time Society has evolved so we can keep the best parts of traditionalism and get rid of some of the really archaic outdated Parts you're right like paying for First Dates I don't say anything about paying for
04:41:25
Madisonfirst that's super like archaic and I make more money than my husband does I pay for a lot of [ __ ] yeah but like you you heard four women here at the table who said they want man to pay 2020 they're not speaking for me I'm not speaking for them every we're talking in
04:41:38
Brian Atlasgeneralities I cook a lot of the meals that would be consider considered a fe like a traditional female gend really sexist that you adhere to this like traditional gender role of like cooking you think so
04:41:49
MadisonI some of but you're adhering you're adhering to a traditional gender role that's why I'm saying you can adhere to some of them but not all of them because Society has evolved and we don't need to be like stuck in the home in 1950 why
04:42:02
Andrew Wilsonhey the archaic parts are the here's so here's what you mean by archaic here just so you know the the men have all the responsibility but none of the authority because having the author hang
04:42:12
Andrew Wilsonon because them having the authority is archaic and it's like that is the feminist cre it's always been the femin how should be of authority unless women determine that they should be qualified
04:42:25
Madisonto lead them so my position on that is like yeah [ __ ] that that's stupid and men should absolutely do the opposite of that well if a woman is doing the majority of the cooking that's quite a bit of responsibility and not
04:42:36
Andrew Wilsonnecessarily in her favor so that's not quite a bit of responsibility inside that nice warm house that has all that heat in it that has uh every Modern
04:42:47
Andrew WilsonLuxury possible invented by you go over to the gas stove that's orted by men hang on and you it's built by men all of the modern infrastructure which your car drives on to go get those groceries at
04:42:59
Andrew Wilsonthe Modern convenience store with the freezer system which is all built by men all of it was invented by men and then you get back in that nice luxury automobile and you go back home on those roads built by men and then you get home and you're protected 24 hours a day by
04:43:12
Andrew Wilsonmilitary which is completely and totally inated with men and a police force that guards you 24/7 to the point where they're literally one phone call away and have a rapid response time usually
04:43:22
Andrew Wilsonoh I don't know 5 to S minutes yes I can totally tell that it's very archaic that men be put in charge of it that is because that is because women women are
04:43:32
Female Panel (mixed)still catching up for the longest time we we're still catching up what no listen listen no are just better than us listen a lot of the time in like scientific
04:43:44
Female Panel (mixed)communities back in the day like take the girl uh Marie uh Curry she she discovered radiation and then a guy took it off her desk and put his [ __ ] name on it so it's like women are female
04:43:55
Female Panel (mixed)inventions women are Wi-Fi was invented by a woman like think of yeah think of all the inventiones we would have if we brought women to the table me look at look at a house look at
04:44:06
Female Panel (mixed)a house look at a house built by a woman and look at a house built by a man it way more functional they don't put the laundry room down build houses they women ARS Architects oh the designers
04:44:19
Female Panel (mixed)the designers they don't build they don't literally build no I'm saying like if you look at women architects and male Architects usually the wom Architects don't build houses no I'm what are you
04:44:30
Andrew Wilsontalking about I'm saying designing I apologize so female Architects are better than male archit I would say they're more efficient but you know why that is you're right you're actually right the reason that women build more or design more functional houses than
04:44:42
Andrew Wilsonmen do from architecture standpoints is because when men do the architecture for a home they Encompass the family unit and the woman's needs that's why so what
04:44:53
Andrew Wilsonmen do when they look at a home is they take into account the entire idea of the family structure for convenience and then they incorporate that and women don't no women do
04:45:06
Female Panel (mixed)because if you actually what's more functional what's more functional about a house designed by a woman okay so for example like the placement of where the laundry should be the placement of where the children's bedrooms are if you like uh cabinets
04:45:19
Female Panel (mixed)Pantry space like if you look it up is is this a study or you just no I swear I looked it up I was super interested by it what's the study what's I mean is it I mean come on I don't have a computer in the top of my head and I can't remember exactly but you guys all have
04:45:30
Andrew Wilsoncomputers out there just research it just look up female design houses versus design men incapable here go there is no compelling evidence whatsoever in any scientific literature that women
04:45:43
Andrew Wilsonarchitecturally designed Better Homes than men or men than women I'm saying look at so they're equal here I'm I do got to move it on I didn't say they're equal what I said was that there's no
04:45:54
Andrew Wilsonscientific evidence to give to the contrary now me I personally would say that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of course men build all the houses they build all the infrastructure they buildt
04:46:05
Andrew Wilsoneverything but I mean if you just want to say well you know female Architects they put the laundry room in the the better I'll just go ahead and granted really has nothing to do with I'm saying efficiency like women think differently
04:46:17
Female Panel (mixed)than men and that's not a bad thing like we could use that to make to see things from a different point of view when you see things from a different point of view you get scientific breakthroughs Dei so like just so you're talking about