Did She CHEAT?! Men Make ZERO Effort?! They DEMAND Trad Men BUT Are THEY Trad?! | Dating Talk #217
Date: 2024-12-02
Duration: 9h 44m
Guests
Brian AtlasIdentified Speakers
SPEAKER_04TTS Voice(audience)
SPEAKER_06Andrew Wilson(guest)
SPEAKER_09Madison(guest)
SPEAKER_12Alexis(guest)
SPEAKER_13Female Panel (mixed)(guest)
SPEAKER_14Brian Atlas(host)
Key Moments
00:05:03
QuoteMadison says she hooks up with Rogue's polyamorous boyfriend: 'I play with Madison's husband all the time and it's different than when I play with my own partner'
“I play with Madison's husband all the time”
00:23:59
QuoteSienna/Rogue defends OnlyFans economics: 'You could get so much for $200 on OnlyFans' (in response to $200 TTS saying 'delete your OF accounts')
“you donated $200 just to say that and like you could get so much for $200 on off”
00:39:43
ControversyAndrew Wilson cites 2011 study: gonorrhea rates among adult performers are 64x higher than general population and 18x higher than LA County residents aged 18-29
“just as of 2011 just to just to tell you um the studies found that goria rates alone were 64 times higher than the general population and 18 18 times higher than Los Angeles County”
01:14:17
Key MomentBrian presents the 'McDonald's vs five-star restaurant' analogy for sex: men who just want casual sex from women take them to five-star restaurants, while men who truly like a woman go 50/50, paralleling women making relationship men wait while sleeping quickly with hookups
“all the exes all the the guy all his exes uh got five star meals but uh and no change in financial status uh she gets McDonald's”
01:45:59
QuoteAndrew Wilson: 'You can't unsuck a dick' — on the irreversibility of high body count and its effect on male attraction
“there's an old proverb um you can't unsuck a dick right”
01:52:09
QuoteBrian Atlas: 'Men are not vending machines in a similar way where you put sex tokens into and you get a relationship out of them'
“men are not vending machines in a similar way where you put sex tokens into and you get a relationship out of them”
02:28:03
OtherSelf-ratings round: Rogue 7-8, Maya 9, Sienna 3.5 (very candid about weight), Kiki 7, Melissa 10 (banter about non-corrective glasses), Madison 8 (7.5-8), Giana 9, Andrew 10
02:28:37
QuoteSienna rates herself 3.5: 'I truly believe I am a 3.5 and I have had um sexual relations with someone that was um more attractive and that doesn't inflate my ego'
“I believe I am a 3.5 and I have had um sexual relations with with someone that was um you know I guess what would you say out of do they say out of your league”
03:26:03
Key MomentBrian pulls up his ex-girlfriend's bow video — she greets him with food and performs a deep bow. Extended panel reaction; Brian explains he trained her to bow deeper over time.
“this was after a long I took this video was after a long day at the podcast Studio my expectation is like she has to hit a bow”
03:42:50
ControversyAndrew Wilson presents the chivalry-virtue exchange argument: 'If you expect the code of chivalry — why in the hell should any man ever extend that if there's no chastity and virtue in exchange?'
“if there's not the Chastity and the Purity and The Virtue aspect for women why in the hell should any man ever ever in a million years extend the code of chivalry”
04:13:51
QuoteBrian on the office clip analogy: 'Lead me — lead me when I'm in the mood to be led' — describing women wanting leadership from men but only conditionally
“Lead Me lead me when I'm in the mood to be led”
04:52:27
Key MomentBrian shows video of his ex-girlfriend bowing to him when he comes home — 'bow boom, huge bow'
“bow boom huge bow you see that look at the bow look at the depth”
06:35:00
ControversyRacism/white privilege debate: Andrew argues that systems which say minority groups can't be racist toward white people create their own systemic problem. Cites Barbary slave trade of Europeans, Irish oppression, Italian oppression.
07:56:23
QuoteBrian reveals his BLM (Big Labia Matter) Instagram post was mistaken for Black Lives Matter by a girl he was about to date — she cancelled the date thinking he hadn't posted a black square
“she thought it was black Liv matter but it was the big laia thing”
08:21:45
QuoteBrian reveals his father was born in Algeria, North Africa — making him 'technically African-American.' Extended banter with panel about this.
“my dad was born in North Africa in uh Algeria technically I'm African-American”
09:39:53
OtherGiana performs a spider/backbend contortion move on the floor at the end of the show — panel is amazed. She is a trained contortionist (mother is gymnastics teacher).
“okay okay make sure you can or you want me to move this huh go okay you're good wait you're doing it”
Topics Discussed
00:02:23
Guest Introductions
Brian introduces panel and each guest states their name, age, location, occupation, and relationship status in turn. Rogue (32, Reno, OnlyFans/pole/radiology), Maya (24, CA/Michigan, OnlyFans), Sienna (21, Torrance, student), Kiki (20, LA, digital marketing student), Melissa (23, LA, social media), Madison (35, SF, married/OnlyFans/Pilates), Alexis (23, LA, flight attendant/bartender), Giana (18, LA, model).
00:06:20
Relationship Status Round
Panel discusses current and past relationships. Rogue is polyamorous with 4-year boyfriend. Maya single 2 years. Sienna single 3 weeks (just ended 2.5yr relationship with fentanyl addict). Kiki in new 1-month relationship from LA Fashion Week. Melissa single 1 month. Madison married 17 years (high school sweethearts, swingers). Alexis single 1 month (4yr relationship ended). Giana single 3 years.
00:25:00
OnlyFans and Sex Work Debate
Extended debate between Andrew Wilson and Madison/Rogue about whether OnlyFans/sex work is harmful to society. Andrew argues it's harmful based on STD rates, trafficking, degradation of marriage values. Madison and Rogue defend it. Discussion of STD testing in the industry vs. general population, sampling bias in studies. Andrew cites 2011 gonorrhea study showing 64x higher rates among performers.
00:51:40
Domestic Violence and Divorce History
Panel discusses whether low historical divorce rates masked higher domestic violence. Andrew argues battery was always illegal. Madison argues many women were trapped and unreported. Debate over falsifiability of 'it was just underreported' arguments.
00:58:20
When Women Have Sex: Fast vs. Slow
Long discussion about women having sex quickly with casual hookups but making 'relationship material' men wait. Brian presents the analogy of men paying more for dates for casual encounters but less (going 50/50) for women they actually like. Panel largely acknowledges the pattern. Andrew draws parallel to make Brian's point. Madison defends her first-night hookup that led to 17 years.
01:14:10
Vasodepression/Oxytocin and Hookup Science
Discussion of oxytocin (bonding hormone in women after sex) and vasodepression in men (buildup creating chase drive, release causing post-nut clarity). Guest argues this explains why making men wait can increase their interest.
01:56:40
Body Count and Virgin Preference
Long debate about whether high body count decreases women's relationship prospects. Andrew argues it limits the pool of quality men. Rogue argues polyamorous Chad wouldn't care. Discussion of whether men prefer virgins, loyalty threshold theory, and whether women are sabotaging themselves by advocating for promiscuity.
02:48:20
Self-Ratings Round
Guests rate their physical appearance 1-10. Rogue: 7-8. Maya: 9. Sienna: 3.5 (very honest, says she needs to lose weight). Kiki: 7 (17 is her favorite number). Melissa: 10 (causes extended banter; Brian removes her non-corrective glasses). Madison: 8 (7.5-8). Giana: 9 (gave 9 last time too). Andrew: 10. Brian teases everyone.
03:10:00
Age Photo Reaction
Brian pulls up old photos of panel members and has guests react/rate them. Extended banter about looking different without glasses.
03:19:00
MGK Fan Groping Video
Panel reacts to viral video of a married woman groping Machine Gun Kelly at a meet-and-greet while her husband watches. Debate about whether the husband was a 'cuck,' whether the hug was inappropriate, and whether she would sleep with MGK if given a pass. Panel is largely critical of the woman's behavior.
03:48:20
Courting Standards and Chivalry
Kiki raises topic of men not wanting to put in effort (not picking girls up, not planning dates). Extended debate about whether chivalry is dead and why. Andrew argues chivalry was tied to female chastity/virtue — if women aren't virtuous, why should men be chivalrous? Discussion of whether women should take husband's last name, who should pay on first date, submissiveness in relationships, traditional gender roles.
04:08:20
Traditional Gender Roles and Submission Debate
Extended debate spanning multiple hours about whether women should be submissive in relationships, whether traditional roles are valid, and hypocrisy of wanting traditional male behavior without reciprocal female behavior. Andrew presents argument that virtue is non-transactional. Brian creates 'The Office' clip analogy about wanting to be led only when in the mood.
04:41:40
DEI and Women in the Workforce
Debate about whether DEI initiatives are justified, whether women were historically oppressed in education, and whether women gravitate toward the same occupations as 200 years ago. Andrew cites Nordic Nations and Jordan Peterson on gender roles. Discussion of female architects designing more functional houses.
04:58:20
Dating Apps vs Meeting in Person
Sienna asks where to meet high-quality men outside of apps. Brian advises approaching in person (campus, activities). Discussion of social anxiety and how being fit helps. Sienna is candid about being overweight and needing to work on herself first.
06:15:00
Can You Be Racist Toward White People
Extended debate about the definition of racism. Alexis argues you cannot be racist toward white people (racism = prejudice + power). Brian presents Barack Obama hypothetical and Obama refusing to hire white janitor. Andrew challenges 'prejudice + power' definition using various examples including the Barbary slave trade. Various guests weigh in.
06:35:00
White Privilege and Systemic Racism
Continuation of racism debate. White privilege discussion — whether it's universal or only applicable to specific white groups (Irish, Italians, etc. weren't considered 'white'). Sienna (half Middle Eastern/El Salvadorian) discusses her perspective. Andrew argues that systems which say certain groups can't be racist create a systemic problem themselves.
08:06:40
Roast Session and Wrap-Up
Chat TTS donations come in roasting the panel. Discussion of Amber Heard's mathematical beauty, Elon Musk as potential date, McKenzie Scott. Brian admits his dad is from Algeria (North Africa) making him technically 'African-American.' Giana performs contortion backbend demo. Final TTS reads and show wrap-up.
Transcript
Page 2 of 11
00:56:36
Andrew Wilsonjust saying well I think so but uh it was unreported and that's why that's not even a tenable position because uh because it's an unfalsifiable one how could I prove that to be incorrect just because you can't prove it to be correct
00:56:49
Madisonor incorrect doesn't mean it's could be possibly wrong it's just food for thought to realize that studies are can be very misleading yeah I know but with with whenever you search something uh
00:57:00
Andrew Wilsonlike that the burden or evidence of proof would fall to you right to either logically demonstrate it or demonstrate it with some type of um you know factual data in this case you can't do that with factual data and I understand that I
00:57:13
Andrew Wilsonalso don't have access to the internet like you I know I know I understand why you can't do that but you can at least use a logical demonstration in this particular case it's not a logical demonstration to say well I just think
00:57:25
Madisonthat they were reported therefore that's true uh that doesn't make any sense right I said it's possible I didn't say say that it was definite I'm just throwing it out there that things aren't
00:57:36
Female Panel (mixed)always what they see at surface value maybe it could be possible also you're saying for me from a logical statistic standpoint you're saying that it's just
00:57:46
Female Panel (mixed)not something that can be seen from from your from your Viewpoint so that's why it would be in your case irrelevant cuz you're looking more at statistics and logic and well evidence that's right in
00:57:59
Andrew Wilsonfront of you rather than an anecdotal um statement well no I would just I guess just to simplify it somebody made a claim to you and then said to you okay well I just think that
00:58:11
Andrew Wilsonum you like let me just do this with space aliens real quick okay I believe that way more people are anally probed by aliens than you think it's just that
00:58:22
Andrew Wilsonthe anal probing goes unreported literally I mean does does that sound does that sound reasonable no no that doesn't sound
00:58:32
Female Panel (mixed)reasonable and that than you think but most of the anal probing goes unreported just wait the government's going to come out again like the aliens in the ocean they've been probing your butt this whole
00:58:44
Brian Atlastime I do have to move I do have to move things on here so um getting into some of the pre-show notes Kiki you said hold on one sec uh you met your current
00:58:56
Brian Atlasboyfriend at La Fashion Week uh he was a photographer uh you guys went to the club together he introduced you to his
00:59:05
Brian Atlasparents first date or not first no no no no no no no not first date oh that's where you met though right we La Fashion Week yeah oh okay so this was like a subsequent hangout when he introduced
00:59:17
Female Panel (mixed)you to the parents at 2 a.m. they went to the club with you though no him and I him and I uh we yeah we met at La Fashion Week we went out and then gaana was there too uh so we we've known each other for a while actually which is
00:59:30
Female Panel (mixed)really oh you guys know each other yeah we've known each other for a while um and uh yeah um we were like not on the first day like after we started dating we were it's just a silly story but and you said you really love how he's a
00:59:42
Female Panel (mixed)perfect blend of Traditional Values yeah but also very Lively and fond yeah he's not like stick in the mud like you know I don't know how to explain it he's like yeah I'll introduce you to my parents but he's also like fun and
00:59:54
Female Panel (mixed)Lively and alive and like not stuck on like you know Silly old ways but also like not completely like he has that Foundation of like you know yeah what what uh what are the silly old ways what do you mean by that I mean he doesn't
01:00:08
Female Panel (mixed)look at me like I'm stupid or speak to me like I'm stupid is that the silly old ways like I think so I mean go ahead I don't know I feel like a lot of men it goes like one of two ways they're kind of mad when you succeed but they're also
01:00:21
Female Panel (mixed)like judgmental when you fail like oh you silly girl like you failed or oh like you're succeeding like whatever just going to turn a blind eye like there's no winning in front of them sometimes is this something you just imagined or have you ever actually heard a guy actually say this out loud of
01:00:34
Brian Atlascourse not saying it out loud but kind of just reading in between the lines I've seen this so I mean why do you think that though like you you've never heard a guy say anything even approaching that so what do you mean I
01:00:47
Female Panel (mixed)think like why do you just assume that that's how men think I think it takes two to Tingo right with behavior so and how they're how they're
01:00:57
Female Panel (mixed)expressing uh I mean it could just be feminist indoctrination but I that's exactly what it is no we have we have huge proof of this what what's the proof Trea he literally said that women will
01:01:10
Brian Atlasnever break the glass ceiling that it's made out of bricks that's like right up there wow that's a terrible argument so like do you also want to like site to Hitler and Stalin too while you're at it or analogy also no but like I don't what
01:01:22
Brian Atlasis your actual argument like somebody a singular man says something how is this representative of all men I actually do know a guy that literally said that about a girl so my friend you continue
01:01:33
Brian Atlasto argue from the outlier again you guys need to actually besides one man saying one terrible thing for example I also don't think she said all men I think
01:01:43
Female Panel (mixed)she said I just gave she was talking in general she was talking in general right but you said you couldn't bring like you've never heard a man say that and I've heard a man say that on like a very
01:01:54
Female Panel (mixed)big National experienced it heard it something she was saying what we've all experi like I you guys really like to argue the out argument no it's literally it's
01:02:06
Brian AtlasBrian you can't interrupt me I'm addressing her point now so uh you can't argue the outlier do some men have some men said Terrible Things misogynistic
01:02:17
Female Panel (mixed)things yes but you guys are talking in general here she's talking in general not enough of them I don't know I've read a lot of com man defies it so what are you
01:02:27
Brian Atlassaying I was saying she's saying her man defies it airo all these other men in society no then she's no then most men defy it is your position most men defy I
01:02:40
Female Panel (mixed)think there are definitely men who are like that there are definitely men who aren't like that she's saying she found one is it the majority of the minority no I I think it's I think it's some and some that's question I think a lot of men are attracted to Smart women I think there are a lot of men out there that
01:02:53
Female Panel (mixed)think it's really attractive when a girl is smart nobody are you guys just intentionally not I answering my question like I think she was just trying to make something out of nothing what she was just saying like oh
01:03:04
Female Panel (mixed)my man is not like this how some men are like I like him for this reason okay I'm not talking about men in general I'm talking about human beings I've seen it in human beings not every human being where they get a little weird when you
01:03:15
Female Panel (mixed)succeed and a little weird when you fail you know what I'm saying to women you said you said men you were talking about men all right well I was discussing kind of my experience with men personally as
01:03:25
Brian Atlasone ual but when I when I asked you okay has a man like actually overtly like verbatim said that or even like approximating that you're like no I've never heard a man say that I was about
01:03:37
Brian Atlasto give you a story when I heard a guy actually say it but you come here most women said we've all heard it we've all seen it okay Brian Brian if you hear one
01:03:47
Female Panel (mixed)two three men say something that's not representative of all I don't think she was saying all men I don't I really or most men aot of do you want our
01:03:58
Female Panel (mixed)statements to be representative all right argument done keep going um next um go ahead continue though I guess like when we were discussing him uh he's I think with a lot of dating
01:04:11
Female Panel (mixed)culture currently and not to say that I'm absent of this like I definitely feel like in the past I've not treated people the way I want to treat others or I haven't been treated the way I want to be treated so I'm happy to go into my 20s with hopefully a better and definitely a better outlook on dating
01:04:24
Female Panel (mixed)and so what I say I can appreciating this person coming from somebody who lives in Los Angeles I've met his parents we have gone to like dinner we've eaten together it wasn't just we didn't have like relations the second we met I'm not saying that's a bad thing
01:04:38
Female Panel (mixed)I'm actually just delighted that I was able to be loved from the neck up that's a thing that I don't feel like people including myself have gotten to experience every single time I'm not speaking in generals I'm just saying I know that being loved from the neck up
01:04:50
Female Panel (mixed)is such a different experience not saying I haven't experienced before you know I've had like a lot of friendship love and like you know companionship love but yeah I'm very grateful for that I'll get into some of that stuff but you
01:05:01
Andrew Wilsonsaid Brian uh just so you know I mean yeah they they are kind of uh correct here for instance I just went on Twitter and all I did was type in men are trash feminist and here's what I got Talia men
01:05:14
Andrew Wilsonare really just losers in every aspect zng GTG men are actually absolute garbage in trash o uh next next one overall men are trash you just got to pick what kind of trash you can tolerate
01:05:25
Andrew WilsonI can keep going and going and going and going my assumption is is that you guys though wouldn't say that that was representative of what all women thought right definitely not definitely not so from Brian's perspective when you say
01:05:39
Madisonwell I heard a man say this once he's just saying the same thing in Reverse right but I wouldn't argue that that makes your experience any less true if you had had women talk to you that way yeah your personal experience I agree
01:05:51
Andrew Wilsonyou can have all sorts of different things which can be informed by a personal experience that that just aren't true in reality though right yeah but she didn't say that of all men she's had other experiences and this one's different and she's appreciating it that's all she was saying yeah that's
01:06:04
Female Panel (mixed)the argument the argument isn't that women think men are trash or men think women are trash it's just that like she wasn't saying all women to be K with or all men to begin with like that's the argument yeah but what what Brian was
01:06:15
Andrew Wilsontrying to do is he was just trying to show you that we we understand that there could be personal anecdotes or experiences as you point out where uh you you can have bad experiences with men and men can have bad experiences
01:06:27
Andrew Wilsonwith women where they hear these types of things and they're horrible and nobody likes them etc etc but that that wouldn't be a representative of the whole so what he was trying to do is say hey look if we're going to have a conversation like that rather than kind
01:06:39
Andrew Wilsonof sighting in on just a singular person who you heard this from perhaps we can extrapolate it a little further out from there that's all he say so going back to you uh you said you loved how he was the Perfect Blend of
01:06:52
Female Panel (mixed)Traditional Values uh so what are I guess some of those traditional vales um yeah like I I would say being on time is nice being Dependable in that way
01:07:04
Female Panel (mixed)like picking me up on like just kind of like you know just like the courtesy of it all I feel like a lot I feel like we're lacking that a little bit and I think it's kind of sad that our generation has lost that I'm not saying
01:07:15
Female Panel (mixed)it's bad like obviously sometimes you know there's a place to differ from that certainly meeting people going out to clubs whatever dancing it's fine like things happen but I'm happy that you know we can also have a place for like
01:07:26
Female Panel (mixed)you know courtesy I guess like a nice blend of both is what I'm trying to say I don't think we need to like lose that all like lose the baby with the bath water just because tender is a thing now doesn't mean that we can't like you know respect each other like like I said from
01:07:38
Female Panel (mixed)the neck up but I'm not saying it's bad if we do like the opposite direction either you know things happen in all different ways but I'm just have you had those opposite way experiences yeah and
01:07:48
Female Panel (mixed)it's um I'm not saying it's like entirely bad but I just you know I um yeah so you uh you've been in a
01:07:58
Brian Atlasrelationship with this guy for one month yeah you guys exclusive yeah okay um I'm you said he kind of waited a little bit before you guys got uh intimate have you guys been had cinal knowledge how long
01:08:11
Brian Atlasdid you wait with him um First Dates four dates four dates has that been your experience with previous maybe now was that you pumping the brakes or was that him wanting to
01:08:23
Brian Atlasyou said slow slow slow yeah um but you've had other experiences that were fast yeah okay um why the differentiation with
01:08:33
Female Panel (mixed)him um I was intimidated by like just you know I get like I think I just get a little nervous in general when it comes
01:08:43
Female Panel (mixed)to dating um and I've realized I feel a little bit more uh at peace when I am in control of things like that rather than like kind of you know just like it it
01:08:54
Female Panel (mixed)puts my mind at to know that like there's more than just one thing going on what do you mean more than one thing going on what do you mean like we get along as human beings and like let's say we had sex immediately and then all of a sudden like we just like can't speak and
01:09:06
Brian Atlaswe're sitting there and it's like well like I hate that have you had that experience before um probably yeah okay um but you have had experiences where previously like
01:09:18
Brian Atlasyou you were in a four no 5year relationship um did you wait with him or was that pretty quick it was pretty quick first first date first hangout yeah I mean kind of yeah first second
01:09:30
Brian Atlashangout and then you've had other experiences too where it was like one night stand or maybe not one night stand but it was like maybe you continued seeing the guy it wasn't just a oneand done but but I kind of regret that for
01:09:41
Female Panel (mixed)me personally like not all of them but like a good amount of it like I feel like just for me personally I kind of you know I wish I uh I wish I had a
01:09:52
Brian Atlasdifferent mindset on things for just me personally okay and then just for the rest of the panelists here um I I guess I'm curious on this because I've I've
01:10:02
Brian Atlasheard this from a lot of women where uh it sounds like you met a really good guy and in this instance uh you wanted to wait but you didn't really when it when
01:10:14
Brian Atlasit came to other men uh there were not really any qualms when it came to uh having sex relatively quickly um so I guess the question would be uh what is the
01:10:25
Brian Atlasshortest period of time you've made a guy wait and then what's the longest excluding I guess the first time you know losing your virginity oh man I mean
01:10:38
Female Panel (mixed)I I once dated a guy where we were dating for two years and we never had sex and I once dated a guy where we dated for four months and then I had sex with him and it was so bad that I ghosted him um he also didn't cuddle
01:10:50
Brian Atlasafterwards which was not great wait you guys for four months you said four months we dated 4 months uhhuh and then you had sex yeah sex was bad it was awful there was no there was no sexual
01:11:02
Female Panel (mixed)what did you do wrong he was a it was all your all your fault obviously he was um he was very like uh like um what's the thing that they put in the ground
01:11:12
Female Panel (mixed)and Jackhammer very Jackhammer there was no like Mumbo to the movements it was just very like you mean like motion to the ocean there's no ocean it was it was flat lake bed with like a rock thrown
01:11:24
Brian Atlasinto it it was not great that yeah good time um so and then there was another guy for two years you dated yeah I did it but he
01:11:34
Female Panel (mixed)was asexual or no uh it was long distance uh he was my brother's best friend and we just got had a really like strong relationship with each other but
01:11:46
Brian Atlaswe never we never slept with each other for two years it was long distance so you were celibate for 2 years or you're [ __ ] other people no I was 15 and he and yeah so I was little I didn't lose my
01:11:57
Brian Atlasvirginity until I was like how about let's reframe the question like this um chronologically yes chronologically have you ever like okay a year prior you had
01:12:08
Brian Atlaslike you slept with the guy the first night or the second date third date chronologically and then like a year later you're like oh I want to wait 3 months have you had or it doesn't have
01:12:20
Female Panel (mixed)to be 3 months it could be I want to I want to wait have you had that in in the I have had that like I've done one night stands and then met somebody and I was like M I kind of want to wait a little
01:12:30
Female Panel (mixed)bit and I I think it was more of I maybe I wasn't super interested in having sex with them it was just more like seeing how they are as a person and
01:12:41
Female Panel (mixed)if I liked that and see if the chemistry would grow yep but I mean sometimes that chemistry is just a lot and you got to get it done so I tend to want to wait if I like think that something could go
01:12:52
Female Panel (mixed)somewhere but it it tends to be like if if I do think something can go somewhere and I like the person I want to do it but sometimes I hold back but I will say yes I've shortest time sex first time
01:13:04
Female Panel (mixed)meeting them but longest time I made the guy wait 10 dates and guys guess what we had sex on the 10th date I made him wait I don't think I liked him very much anyways but when we were having sex he said like oh yeah like I want to put a
01:13:17
Female Panel (mixed)baby in you I want to put a baby in you on the first time having sex so then after that I was like that's a threat yeah after that I was like maybe I shouldn't have wasted 10 dates of my
01:13:27
Female Panel (mixed)time to know that this guy is like this so I'm just like uh okay I mean like so he wanted to it
01:13:38
Brian Atlaswas a breeding fetish it wasn't just that no no it wasn't we about I mean you have a breeding fetish don't you do I only with the right person but like I mean I looked at your Twitter you have a tweet that's like I want to get cream
01:13:49
Female Panel (mixed)pied or some [ __ ] that's not the same as a breeding fetish no yeah like something filling you up feels good but like breeding fetish is different but okay I I sort of see what you're
01:14:01
Brian Atlassaying I mean it's I mean I do though I see kind of the delineation but I mean which there's nothing wrong with the breeding fetish it was just a lot to handle on the first time having yes I
01:14:14
Brian Atlassuppose like if if you're a woman on birth control like you could want to be cream pied but like without the intention of getting pregnant so that's fair okay um what about you shortest time uh same
01:14:25
Female Panel (mixed)night I met them on Tinder okay longest time a month and was that after the Tinder hookup yes chronologically okay Kiki what about you yeah I've had sex
01:14:35
Female Panel (mixed)the first time meeting somebody too yeah and then the longest time um is this the guy you've made with the longest I think so yeah trying to had a whole like brain
01:14:45
Brian Atlasreset okay all right what about you same I've had sex on the first night and then probably like a month I don't other guys you've made weight was did you make weight your uh
01:14:57
Brian Atlasfouryear no fentol guy nope didn't make him white fentanyl Frank no was he white guy or white guy no Hispanic
01:15:10
Brian Atlasno black black I know oh okay I'm just hey I'm C I was just there's many other okay you that could be he could have been Native American could have been anything he
01:15:20
Brian Atlascould have been Asian do you do you date Asian men no I had are you half I'm half Filipino yeah half Filipino half white white okay don't you don't like Asian guys I
01:15:33
Madisonhave nothing against Asian men I've just never dated an Asian guy oh okay uh what about you um I feel like this doesn't apply to me as much since I've been with my husband since I was
01:15:45
Madison18 maybe was there anything prior any relationships prior or no not really um yeah but I was like in high school and they were dumb but how long did you make your husband wait we actually hooked up
01:15:57
Madisonon the first night we did not actually have PIV but we did hook up the first night you had sing the D was there sing the D yeah not and the B I think the first like full-blown time
01:16:10
Madisonwas maybe like a weekend it a weekend okay after after that D of course she married yeah can't get that up
01:16:21
Alexisuh the shortest of having sex on the first night the longest I've made a guy wait no more than a month if I want to have sex I want to have sex okay but you have made like chronologically speaking
01:16:34
Brian Atlaslike you've done like first night and then maybe there was one guy you're like oh this guy could be a relationship material we're going to wait four dayses mhm yeah no there's been uh a few guys where I was like um you know what they
01:16:47
Alexiscould be my potential boo so I'm not going to give it up right away I want to see where this goes so finally when we get to the do yep um they don't even hit me up after or they start texting me
01:16:58
Alexislike we're just F buddies they don't text me like they want something serious it's just to have some fun and I'm like what was the point of waiting honestly I I don't care about that I'm like that's why I think you shouldn't wait exactly I
01:17:11
Female Panel (mixed)don't care if they stick around and they might and they might pop a breeding fetish on you 15 dates in and then you're like why' I wait 15 dates you know no yeah uh gaana what about you um
01:17:23
Female Panel (mixed)I think my longest and shortest is about the same like a few months to be honest I think I I'm never in town for that long enough to see somebody that long
01:17:34
Female Panel (mixed)that I usually have a lot of time before I see them again and see them again so so what's I guess uh 3 months is the shortest before you had carnal knowledge
01:17:46
Brian Atlasyeah you've never like hooked up with somebody the same day you met him no second day no third day no okay good see you all right okay I suppose some
01:17:56
Brian Atlasconsistent consistency there uh this this whole thing is really confusing to me as a guy I know it it happens I've encountered it myself uh anecdotally
01:18:07
Brian Atlasspeaking uh it just seems weird like you reward the [ __ ] boy you reward the guy who is I guess least worthy of having sex with you and the
01:18:20
Brian Atlasguy who is arguably like the most deserving the relationship guy get what you mean I don't get it either yeah yeah and so it's like that's this is like I know it happens it's totally a thing in
01:18:32
Brian Atlasfact like probably most women operate this way but I find it peculiar um and it's sort of like life's unfair obviously I was going to say it seems a bit unfair unfair treatment and I think men should it's sort of like on one hand
01:18:45
Brian Atlaswhat do you as a woman do it's like well I've you've had casual sexual encounters like are you supposed to just continuously do that I think the issue comes in though it's like if you have like a total change of your
01:18:57
Brian Atlasmorals like okay I used to have casual sex but now I want to operate differently it's still kind of rubs me the wrong way like you're free to do it but i' I'd feel like kind of what the
01:19:07
Brian Atlas[ __ ] but then it's like okay have a one night stand oh meet guy who is potential long-term relationship material wait
01:19:16
Brian Atlasfive dayses and then that doesn't work out have a string of one night stands so there is no actual basis for for like you're not doing it you're essentially
01:19:27
Brian Atlastrying to trick the long-term relationship material guys into thinking that you're the type of girl that conducts herself in this sort of chased way even though you're absolutely not
01:19:39
Brian Atlasand you're just doing this is basically like a fugazi to try to get that guy into a relationship which seems a bit manipulative to me um but I do find it
01:19:51
Madisoninteresting um I think you make a really fair argument and from perspective I could see why you would view it that way but I think some women decide like hey maybe this hookup culture isn't working for me these relationships haven't
01:20:03
Madisonpanned out so maybe I'll try something different now and see if that works out better and also like if you're just hooking up with a guy you're just having sexual chemistry if you want to spend your life with someone you want to make sure maybe there's something more there
01:20:16
Female Panel (mixed)as well I don't know I'm speculating again I have a completely different situations agree I agree like I agree with what you said also and I agree with what she said I think that I I think
01:20:26
Female Panel (mixed)that um yeah like a potential partner yeah I don't know I think it's I think it's kind of [ __ ] up low key but I do think that like like Society like if we
01:20:37
Female Panel (mixed)are and I get tricking us tricking you guys I do get that part but like Society is like if she's not wife material if she [ __ ] on the first date a lot of or if she sorry p&v on the first date no I just meant speaking to oh sorry yeah
01:20:49
Female Panel (mixed)you're fine sorry uh she's not wife material if she does pnv on the first date so we see a guy and we're like oh like maybe I really like him and so I don't want to do this because this is
01:20:59
Brian Atlaswhat he might think it's not us necessarily but it's like the thing is though like I do think there there are some guys who like might disqualify you
01:21:10
Brian Atlasif you have sex with you too soon the thing is though it's not clear to me if like I mean you had this exper I think maybe some of you have maybe even had experiences where you're like oh I
01:21:22
Brian Atlasdo want a relationship with this guy I'm going to make him wait he still [ __ ] you once and never talked to you again anyway and so in addition to that I I'm not sure if like if a guy already has
01:21:34
Brian Atlaseyeballed you for like oh waa this girl is like potentially relationship material I don't think if you sleep with him too soon it
01:21:45
Brian Atlasnecessarily is going to preclude him from pursuing a relationship with you yeah I see nothing wrong with that you got to test out the car like if he's pushing if he's pushing for a like if he wants
01:21:57
Brian Atlasto have sex with you sooner and he wants a relationship with you like I don't know why he would be shooting himself in the foot he's like okay I like this girl she's really cool she's really
01:22:08
Brian Atlasattractive I could see it like her potentially being a girlfriend I'm going unless you're the one who's being sexually aggressive and I don't mean that like in a weird but you're like sexually pursuing him I don't know if a
01:22:19
Brian Atlaslot of guys are like I see her as relationship material I want to sleep with her I'm going to see if I can sleep with her if she sleeps with me I've now changed my
01:22:31
Brian Atlasassessment or mind about her relationship worthiness I don't know if that's really a thing for most guys uh it would just be the decrease of hormones within them there's studies on
01:22:43
Female Panel (mixed)that so men have a buildup if I'm not mistaken you could look at a vast depress I believe that's how you pronounce it theoretically women when they have sex release oxy what's it called oxytocin oxytocin and that is the
01:22:54
Female Panel (mixed)bonding hormone men decrease in oxytocin when they like let it out of their system so that's why there's post-nut Clarity where they're like actually I'm so good on this and then they would I mean what I'm trying to say is with vast
01:23:05
Female Panel (mixed)depression men increase vast depression with stress and kind of with like not getting what they want because it builds up and the buildup IS what makes them like Chase Chas but I I would like to
01:23:16
Female Panel (mixed)interject if I can um I would say the only way you're going to find someone who is the perfect partner for you is to be unapologetically yourself so if you feel like [ __ ] that person on the
01:23:28
Female Panel (mixed)first date and you want them to be Future Baby Daddy and then they they don't want it anymore then you just flick somebody off of the scale that's not going to be that person for you that's true that's the battle I go
01:23:40
Female Panel (mixed)sometimes like you just if you're completely honest about who you are what you do what what you want in a relationship you're going to find somebody out there that wants those things too I think uh that's fair I I guess
01:23:52
Brian Atlasgoing back to this whole thing though it it sort of seems to me like the the thought process is as a woman if you're doing this sort of like make some guys waight just [ __ ] other guys really
01:24:02
Brian Atlasquickly it's like I thought this guy was a better long-term Prospect so I treated him worse mhm than the guys I knew who
01:24:14
Brian Atlaswere just like for sex those are typically like the [ __ ] boys ass hold on hold on but and this is what you essentially are saying to the guy who you want to wait and have like a long-term
01:24:26
Brian Atlasrelationship with you were so important to me that I treated sex like it was sacred but just for you not those other 20 guys who got it hit the first night
01:24:38
Female Panel (mixed)it's only sacred for you but for those other dudes yeah you can just [ __ ] right away I don't know if we're treating it as sacred more as like wanting you to accept us but also I think that like like let's like I think we've all been
01:24:52
Female Panel (mixed)through this most of us have been through this where you have sex with a guy whether it's after a few dates or on the first night he doesn't talk to you anymore the hurt with him not talking to you anymore is less with a guy who you
01:25:02
Female Panel (mixed)don't see any potential with rather than a guy who is like you want something you want you want more out of from and so like I don't know having sex with him too soon it hurts it's like whatever like you want to make him like you you
01:25:15
Female Panel (mixed)want to make him do this I don't really know that's a really good point that is a really good point I agree with that but also I feel like there's a very big difference between [ __ ] someone and making love to someone like having those
01:25:26
Female Panel (mixed)different connections are completely different and I I would say that you know if somebody goes on the street and like they're horny and they want to [ __ ] the hot girl like that they met let's say at a fashion show that's what they're going to look for but there's a
01:25:39
Female Panel (mixed)difference between [ __ ] and loving and hey you might [ __ ] somebody on the first date and they might end up being your baby daddy I I don't know emotions are not logical what's the what's the difference what's the difference between
01:25:50
Female Panel (mixed)[ __ ] and and love making yeah connection it's not something you can describe it's something you got to feel and the people who know it know it yeah
01:25:59
Brian Atlasfeeling like so I don't know if that's going to like I get I'll just grant that but like from the male perspective if I'm sitting here as like you're viewing me as the potential boyfriend and you're
01:26:11
Andrew Wilsonsaying I want to [ __ ] those other guys but you have to wait I wouldn't make you wait huh that's like isn't that like the the typical like nah baby I didn't I
01:26:23
Andrew Wilsondidn't make love to her I was [ __ ] her so it didn't mean anything like like what you know what I mean like what are you talking about in a relationship like that love baby I only make love to you
01:26:35
Female Panel (mixed)well hey in a Rel in a relationship like that where you're supposed to be monogamous yes that's a slap in the face but as someone who's polyamorous like I I play with Madison's husband all the
01:26:47
Female Panel (mixed)time and it's different than when I play with my own partner so so yeah so you just [ __ ] hit you ain't making love he's a good [ __ ] though he is yeah you you ain't making
01:26:58
Madisonlove because that's a whole different thing you only make love to the people you have that special butterfly like feeling with yeah but Brian your stance kind of sounds like the thing that you you only value a woman in a relationship
01:27:10
Madisonfor having sex if you're punishing them by making them wait like isn't there a lot more that a woman can bring to the table and maybe she respects you for more than just your body and more than just a [ __ ] and that's why she wants to
01:27:22
Madisonwait I mean I completely think it's stupid when girls like hook up all over town their whole Al and then suddenly decide they want to wait till marriage with one guy that's ridiculous but to say I want to take this a little more seriously and I want to respect you as a human and make sure there's like a
01:27:35
Madisondeeper connection before we take it there I don't think there's anything wrong with that as long as it's like a reasonable time frame well just I I do want to clarify my position is not that all women do bring or can bring to the
01:27:47
Madisontable is just sex I don't know if that's what you're trying to it kind of seem that way cuz we're punishing guys by making the good weight that's what you said yeah but how would that follow that that's all that women bring to table I know because you see that as a punishment rather than we're respecting
01:28:00
Brian Atlasmen for more than just bodies where's the I'm it's an implication you didn't straight Upstate it but there's I don't think there's any implication there somebody can like punish somebody in like one vertical and it doesn't mean that they're not bringing other things
01:28:13
Madisonto the table well you're just seeing it as a glass half empty that it's like a punishment rather than respecting you for more than just your body and your penis well why isn't she respecting herself in previous sexual encounters
01:28:24
Madisonthen not about respecting yourself it's about respecting the other person how so because in one instance both parties were just looking to have some good sex and release some good hormones in a different case you're looking to spend the rest of your life with someone and
01:28:37
Madisonsee where this goes yeah but why would withholding sex preclude somebody from it wouldn't necessarily but in some cases it like I said maybe it didn't work out the other way for Girls before and they decided hey maybe I'll make them wait a couple dates like nine
01:28:49
Brian Atlasmonths would be ridiculous but sure may let me give you get to know each other first let me I'm going to go through a couple analogies here I have them written down kind of to I None of these quite perfectly hit on this but uh I I
01:29:02
Brian Atlasthink it's fair to go through a bunch of these analogies and to perhaps try to give you the perspective of how men might experience this so uh who here wants a guy to pay for the first date
01:29:12
Brian Atlasshow hands pay for the first date pay for the first date pay the F first date it depends on their financial situation yeah so let's say you really like this guy you go on a date everything's great
01:29:24
Brian Atlasbut you find out that he wants to go 50/50 with you until you guys are married objections I already go 50/50 with my that's fine this is for those 5050 for paying for the first date you
01:29:37
Alexisdidn't you didn't raise your hand though so this is for the people who want a guy to pay for the first date so s your reaction yeah um I mean yeah what like he should pay for the first date like that's the traditional way that you want
01:29:49
Female Panel (mixed)a traditional woman and what about you I would be open to it um but initially I would if you're trying to court me then yeah pay for the date if you ask me on a
01:29:59
Female Panel (mixed)date if I ask you it's different sure mhm I would assume we're friends if he didn't pay for the first date I'm not saying no he I mean he wants to date you but he's like I still would but he's not sending me the right message I'm not
01:30:11
Brian Atlassaying he has to papay for every day at all he's he's overt like he's like hey I really like you but this is just kind of my values I prefer 50/50 I would still assume that he just wants I would look at him as a friend I feel like no but he's like I want to [ __ ] you I still
01:30:23
Brian Atlaswould look at him friend and date you and have suck you want to [ __ ] me I still look at you as a friend okay so just to be clear if he wants to [ __ ] you he has to pay for the first date yeah because I think it's announcement okay
01:30:33
Brian Atlasand so but to those of you who want guys to pay for the first dat you learn even though he says and you're really interested you really like this I mean what what is a piece of pie buy it's the
01:30:44
Andrew Wilsonmess is is the piece of pie second base and then like does the appetizer pay for the first kiss like how does this how does this work okay so um um
01:30:56
Brian Atlasso those of you who said like yeah you do want the guy to pay for the first date uh you learn that for his last three girlfriends he paid for everything
01:31:07
Brian Atlashe he paid for rent dates vacations he'd go on like a couple dates a week pay for everything pay the entire Bill and you're and he's telling you well oh like you're really special to me
01:31:20
Brian Atlaslike I think you could be the one blah blah blah but he wants to go go 50/50 and there's been no change in his financial POS like he hasn't lost his job anything like that you feel a little
01:31:30
Brian Atlasbit like well hold on why do the other girls why did all your exes get this kind of treatment and I'm just do you feel that way yeah I would question it
01:31:41
Brian Atlaswould you feel the type of way may I would just question like what what changed there is a question of he what changed is he really likes you and he wants it to be serious with you can I
01:31:53
Female Panel (mixed)make can I hold on let me get her response and then you can go I would be uncomfortable if a guy paid for everything the same way he like for instance like I wouldn't be comfortable in myself knowing that a guy pays for literally everything like that would
01:32:04
Female Panel (mixed)make me feel guilty but I still think on the first date I think it's just like it's I'm I don't know I'm very big on proof and I tend to like I tend to question things a lot so if I have the proof of like okay like he asked me to hang out yeah like he'll pay for the
01:32:17
Female Panel (mixed)first dat but that does not mean I'm like stuck on him paying for everything absolutely not if anything did you understand I'm sorry were you not listening I was listening this if he was paying okay so now okay so he's paid for everything else for other females and
01:32:30
Female Panel (mixed)now looking at me he's like I actually appreciate you as like a person blah BL blah blah and this is why I want to go half and half I mean I wouldn't mind going half and half I just still would I'm not going to be your learning curve like if you're that messed up from other
01:32:42
Female Panel (mixed)girls like take a moment to yourself and knowing that if transactions like I don't know how to explain that like I you know because maybe he was taken advantage of by those girls that took I would I would actually like you to explain that
01:32:56
Female Panel (mixed)I think that there's I don't know I think that there's like an I think like I said proof maybe I get a little bit like bunged up on the details and I can't tell how people feel about me so little things like proof like you know you show that you okay on the first date
01:33:09
Female Panel (mixed)you paid for it I'm not opposed to going 50/50 with a guy it's not I'm not going to like throw a fit about it at all I'm not even going to they're not even going to notice I'm just saying with my own self I think it makes like it's I think it's a courtesy in a sense of saying I
01:33:21
Female Panel (mixed)asked you to hang out I took you out I like you there's validation in the fact that I like you because I paid for it I took time out of my day out of my you know my I filled your cup you know I
01:33:31
Female Panel (mixed)took you to dinner I filled your cup like can I also say something real quick um I also all right I do think the man should pay for the first date I do but let's say he's in a financial compromise
01:33:44
Female Panel (mixed)whatever he he doesn't have a ton of money right now in the scenario he's not okay well well then well I'm just saying like he could take us on a picnic like I would like him to show something it doesn't have to be fin eventually but he has to show like oh I planned this I'm
01:33:57
Female Panel (mixed)taking us here we're doing we can talk about like the hoay topic but we're getting a little bit away from like kind of what I'm trying to get out here GI you had something go ahead um so I kind of feel like this is um semi- similar to
01:34:09
Female Panel (mixed)what we were just talking about kind of like how we some of the girls said um when we find a guy that we feel more connected to we wait till you know longer to have sex with them rather than
01:34:22
Brian Atlasjust really quick question on that so so you're saying the guys you feel really connected to those are the guys that have to wait for sex but the guys you're not connected to get to [ __ ] right away
01:34:32
Brian Atlasthat's it female logic by girl math girl math that anyway so just to be clear you guys [ __ ] the men that treat you like are less of a match
01:34:44
Female Panel (mixed)like is that that's because I think we need our sexual needs met regardless sometime I mean some of us do and so yeah like some guy to just [ __ ] is fine but like yes if I want to date you then like I yeah Gian I did not mean to
01:34:56
Andrew Wilsoninterrupt but I want clarification go ahead I mean doesn't that literally sound like you're punishing the people that I agree it actually does I have compro like I have contradicting beliefs
01:35:08
Female Panel (mixed)on this so yep go ahead Giana so then I felt like it was similar because us going 50/50 on a date whoever raised their hand or didn't it's kind of like
01:35:18
Female Panel (mixed)you guys were also saying um if you feel more like connected to the guy you would rather go 50/50 or you wouldn't if I rather yeah if I really like someone I
01:35:30
Alexisdon't mind I've been in relationships and I've paid for things I don't mind if I really love you like I don't mind okay and I'm sorry I didn't catch your name but you were going to say something good
01:35:39
MadisonI thought um oh Sienna yes Sienna um about about this maybe he had been taken advantage of right that's why I was trying to um ask you if that no go ahead
01:35:51
Female Panel (mixed)go ahead was is he taken advantage of before like were these girls just kind of not really truly genuine with him in the relationship but just wanted
01:36:01
Female Panel (mixed)material things and that maybe but I also agree with Ken saying that another girl I mean maybe you should just take that time for yourself if you have trust issues about money and you know things like that say if you have like a
01:36:13
Female Panel (mixed)therapist or something you could you know talk through that and but it's also understandable if they do have trust issues that if they'd want to go 50/50 you know with someone else but I don't know it's just kind of a like if
01:36:26
Brian Atlasthey have that own Journey for themselves maybe they can figure out I mean I'm happy to like continue adding like various micro details to the hypothetical I was just wondering do you want to know which like State they were
01:36:37
Brian Atlasborn into I can like give you like all the the life history of like the hypothetical like um was so in the hypothetical was this guy like
01:36:47
Brian Atlasfinancially abused by the women in this past relationships uh probably not no okay I I guess yes but so would you just want yes or no yeah I mean I I don't know how much more detailed I can make
01:36:58
Brian Atlasthe hypothetical it's kind of just an analogy to should have man pay on the first date raise your hand if yes see uh only with traditional
01:37:08
Brian Atlaswomen wait I'm sorry okay traditional I guess a couple other analogies here but how about this uh all the EX's all the
01:37:17
Brian Atlasthe guy all his exes uh got five star meals but uh and no change in financial cial status uh she gets McDonald's because he's turned over a new leaf and
01:37:28
Female Panel (mixed)decided that money has better uses than just trying to impress people I still think first date should be for impressing after that we can no first date first date then you're done then you're you're not trying to impress me
01:37:41
Female Panel (mixed)so you girls put yourself in you need to work on that trauma you've been through chicken nuggets like if you had the spicy chicken nuggets I don't I don't eat me I don't eat McDonald everyone has their own way of handling
01:37:52
Female Panel (mixed)their own money and um if they want to put forth the money it can be a cheap date man just pay for it how would you like us to answer not thoughtfully or thoughtfully that's why I'm asking you detailed
01:38:04
Brian Atlasquestions no thoughtfully but I where you're going with this is you're trying to understand why in the hypothetical he's acting this way right it's kind of
01:38:14
Brian Atlasirrelevant I just want you to put yourself in the girl's position and think if I was in this hypothetical position as the girl and I learned I
01:38:25
Brian Atlasdiscovered that all of his exes got better treatment and then I'm now getting wor you say to the question I'd leave yeah how would you answer it girls
01:38:35
Female Panel (mixed)don't buy no but all right but let's say let's I mean just just imagine it like what would you say is that cool with you or not if if this girl did and and I guess we can relate it to sex cuz I'm sure that's where you're going to take
01:38:48
Female Panel (mixed)it like giving sex on the first date rather than not but like if she did all this for this man and says do you actually have turned over a new leaf and I'm not going to do any of this for you what would you
01:38:58
Female Panel (mixed)say I'm asking you guys the my I can't ask you I'm curious I've already established my position on this I think I guess it would rub me the wrong way then no yeah I wouldn't be cool you just
01:39:09
Brian Atlasif if you just wanted to take it from we just found that out want the woman's perspective that's what I want I want the woman's perspective you go on a date with a dude and you find out that he got
01:39:21
Brian Atlasall these other girls he went on dates with uh you know he got them gifts and took them to five star restaurants would beol you got to let me finish you got
01:39:30
Female Panel (mixed)can't keep interrupting sorry whoor go ahead I I was done I just said I don't think anyone else would be cool that I'm sorry for interrupting it's my bad I have that that's a problem I'm actually
01:39:41
Brian Atlasgenu genuinely sorry um but again I'm hoping to get a response from you guys so all the other girls he dated and who he just had like casual like he was just
01:39:52
Brian Atlastrying to like casually [ __ ] them right he was like he took all the Casual chicks he took them the festar dinner but now he wants a relationship with you you just get McDonald's it sounds like a
01:40:05
Female Panel (mixed)power Dynamic to me it sounds like initially when he met all those women the reason he tried so hard to impress them is because he's trying to show that he's like you know in power oh I can afford this meal I can afford this I can afford that blah blah blah blah and that's the entire sense around why
01:40:18
Female Panel (mixed)you're with me now he's been burned so many times before that he looks at you a girl that he really likes and he says actually rather than give no he hasn't been burned I I don't know why okay whatever whatever that well obviously he's been burned if he's going to another girl not saying burned like emotionally scarred forever but
01:40:31
Female Panel (mixed)obviously things did not work out they burned up they didn't workit can you can you say the question and like completely dumb it down for us even more so we can all just give you a straight answer it sounds like he has the power like now he wants I don't know where the power thing
01:40:44
Brian AtlasI'm not sure where the power thing came from is okay I'll repeat it again okay okay man dated other women and he just had casual sex
01:40:57
Brian Atlaswith them and didn't want a relationship with them in order to get to the Casual Sex he took them to really nice restaurants and got them gifts and paid
01:41:06
Brian Atlasfor everything he meets you you and he he really like you he want relationship
01:41:15
Brian Atlasfrom you he only what you're doing now I get it yeah stop he only take you to like poor restaurant I get it he take
01:41:25
Female Panel (mixed)you to McDonald's I understand now he he know want to spend lot money I get it thank you for D so much
01:41:33
Female Panel (mixed)he's referring it to the sex thing guys if I mean maybe just me that long but it took me along oh he's referring it to
01:41:42
Brian Atlasthe sex thing um how would you as women's feel about this huh I mean that's a great question Brian
01:41:53
Brian Atlashonestly oh my God you're such a troll no I'm not I'm not I'm actually actually I be a little tickled a little tickled
01:42:04
Brian Atlaswhere cuz sometimes that could be a good thing I don't know it's just like why McDonald's oh where where do you prefer are you more of a Red Lobster girl maybe I just feel like that Cheesecake Factory
01:42:17
Brian Atlaswhy why McDonald's like am I less valuable do you see me as less valuable no you're more valuable is the thing you're more valuable so I want to take you to a worse restaurant okay so I'm
01:42:27
Female Panel (mixed)gonna say I don't want McDonald's I actually want something else maybe BJ's you want hold on it's the first date pump The Brak it's a restaurant it is a restaurant would be nice yeah for the
01:42:40
Female Panel (mixed)first dat well that's a whole another conversation that's actually a great analogy and yeah I don't know mhm like I actually agree with your analogy I don't know I feel like it's the same as the girls saying like I like you so I'm not
01:42:52
Female Panel (mixed)going to have sex with you the guyy saying I like you so I'm not going to spend money on you however the same way you were saying That's manipulative when women do it if women have like I don't you I know you don't like the word power but I can't think of another word if women have control with their body and
01:43:05
Female Panel (mixed)giving it away and men have theoretically if we're going to take this stance cuz that's where we're going control with their money and the less he gives it away the more he's like you actually like me however I feel like it the same way it's manipulative for girls to do that cuz I've done that you know
01:43:18
Female Panel (mixed)like I definitely feel like I have regretted doing that where it's like I give less to people I like and more to people I don't like when I was in a relationship but the same thing where it's like okay so you're trying to prove that you don't like me that much like oh like I'm just going to give you
01:43:29
Female Panel (mixed)McDonald's like don't think that you're like the one like whatever so I just come so I'm more like wow like he takes all these other girls but for some reason I'm Different why am I different usually I get what I want and so why am not getting what I want it feels
01:43:40
Andrew Wilsonmanipulative and that's why I feel so I mean if that if that's the case then that it's a form of manipulation that wouldn't this stand to Brian's point
01:43:50
Andrew Wilsonthat hey if a woman has slept with the the Five Guys previous to you because she just didn't care about them and she cares about you that that would basically just be a massive red flag
01:44:01
Andrew Wilsonthat this woman is a manipulator yes and wouldn't the entailment of that then be that she should sleep with him on the first date so that she's not being manipulated wait can you pull up the definition of
01:44:12
Female Panel (mixed)manipulation I just want to wait or can anybody cuz I like twisting the to your own okay sure yes then it's manipulation for sure it's manipulation
01:44:22
Female Panel (mixed)in both senses is and honestly like I like I have nothing to say I don't know I'm the yeah I know but you but she but then he went ahead and said something anyway even though it wasn't well no I wanted to know well no I wanted to know
01:44:34
Andrew Wilsonthe definition of I wanted to know the definition of manipulation can you can let can you let her answer though question I'm sorry I think um remind me yapper Maya Maya gave a really good
01:44:46
Female Panel (mixed)example of this earlier where maybe when you do feel something more the pain of losing somebody that you actually like hurts and the pain of like okay whatever I went to the club in Miami I went home with somebody was that a mistake yeah
01:44:58
Female Panel (mixed)was I like six shots deep yeah sorry oops [ __ ] oops you know but no I'm not like um no I think the pain of losing somebody that you really like you take it in consideration and you want to build something with them so is it
01:45:10
Andrew Wilsonmanipulative sure a little bit but also like we got to survive out here like I don't know this would be but this would would entail Brian's argument back right and say but wait you wouldn't want that sort of treatment on a first date from a
01:45:23
Female Panel (mixed)person paying for the meal who says look I really like you and so I don't want to be spinning extravagantly but there's proof there's a reward in the fact that like oh I still want to hang out with you even though we're not having sex there's a reward in that there's like
01:45:35
Female Panel (mixed)soul in that like I want to sit with you I want to talk to you with the McDonald's it's kind of just like I just think it's kind of icky like there's no person there's no character there's nothing to talk about wait a second wait
01:45:46
Andrew Wilsona second who do you think feels like they got the bigger reward oh honey I love you I I can't you know really adore you I can't wait to have a long night talking with you or the guy who [ __ ] your brains out last week which one
01:45:59
Andrew Wilsonwhich guy do you feel like like they got the bigger reward hang hang on hang on almost done which one do you think feels like they got the bigger reward the guy who got to
01:46:11
Female Panel (mixed)have the sex or the guy who gets to listen to you talk to him what sex feels better okay I'm going to I'm going to interject here no no no you got to let her answer go ahead the sex that you had on the first night when when it was like in the Heat of the Moment or when you're
01:46:25
Brian Atlaslike actually talking to somebody more and more and learning about them I do have to cut hold on I do have to cut in you didn't actually answer his question I was literally answering it no you you were answer you were asking what's the bigger reward yeah you you didn't answer
01:46:36
Andrew Wilsonit you were asking him a question what's the bigger reward which guy do you think feels like that got the bigger reward the guy who got the sex from you the very first night out or the guy who got to have the long walk on the beach talking to you yeah but sometimes you
01:46:49
Female Panel (mixed)feel like a loser if you like had sex immediately and then they leave like you feel like a loser not saying that's always the case I'm just saying sometimes like just answer his question just answer his question oh my God okay yeah the guy that got another like Notch under his belt he feels like a big win
01:47:01
Brian Atlasor whatever I hope he does that again and again and again is not well hold on Andrew I'll let you come in in just a sec but like you could have sex stop stop stop stop stop stop one person talking at a time you got to stop
01:47:12
Brian Atlasinterrupting you've done it like 20 times Just sh zip it my name zip it good okay it's not like an one or the other thing like a guy who wants a long-term
01:47:23
Brian Atlasrelationship with you he could have sex with you and want to continue seeing you I agree I never get sick of Space Mountain so that's great um and that's
01:47:34
Female Panel (mixed)nice I may I interject uh go ahead and then Andrew will it's actually it's really just kind of a a question you're saying that um okay it could be like for one guy that wants to have a long-term relationship
01:47:47
Female Panel (mixed)with you you could have sex on the same night or you could not you know um maybe it just comes down to communication then about asking them what they really want
01:47:58
Female Panel (mixed)and what they're actually looking for you know what so that so that you know that I think there's a stereotype and there's stereotype that even I this is anecdotal but it's what I've been told
01:48:11
Female Panel (mixed)if you give it up on the first night they're not going to talk to you again but I only learned that after you know making a making a few and I'd say that they were mistakes
01:48:21
Female Panel (mixed)in the beginning when I kind of was uh influenced by hookup culture when I was 18 you know and and so but when
01:48:32
Female Panel (mixed)you're communicating with someone about um you know what you want what you're looking for and say you are you saying that it's like they
01:48:42
Andrew Wilsonshould give it up on the first date too no no no here's here's here's the essential of the argument what what Brian is saying and also what I'm saying here right because we're just looking at
01:48:53
Andrew Wilsonit from the perspective of how you think men would feel and how you think women would feel so if the idea here is is that look I really really like you and that's why I'm going to make you wait to
01:49:04
Andrew Wilsonsleep with me but the Five Guys previously they met nothing to me so I slept with them immediately hang on hang on obviously that's going to make the guy feel like a
01:49:14
Andrew Wilsonpiece of trash right the reverse here is if we were to say okay well I don't want a woman who just wants me for my money right I want her to know that I really like her and she really likes me so I'm
01:49:26
Andrew Wilsonnot going to be very extravagant on the first date or things like this but I did that for the five women previous to her that probably wouldn't make her feel very good either so the point here is to
01:49:37
Andrew Wilsonkind of just point out that well well wait a second uh while you say I'm actually doing this for you because I really like you think of it from their perspective they think well the Five
01:49:47
Andrew WilsonGuys previous they got to hit right and I get J I get jipped be I just so Happ because I'm so good and you like me so much I get the thing I don't get the thing that everybody else gets right
01:49:59
Female Panel (mixed)think if you're thinking of it from their perspective so that's what's being said okay well thank you for explaining I I guess I've just I think everyone has been in their
01:50:09
Female Panel (mixed)own different situation maybe even when starting out and um when say for example with the person that let the other Five Guys hit right
01:50:21
Female Panel (mixed)um say they're just I mean there's it could all be hypotheticals here maybe they're just starting out with sex and they think that the person will call them again and that it'll be fine and that you know they're kind of naive in the way so they continue to you know
01:50:34
Female Panel (mixed)talk to them but realize after they did give it up per se whether it's in their room or in the car or whatever the male not all and just in maybe in some
01:50:46
Female Panel (mixed)hypothetical situation seems to be less interested uh responding with less words and it seems to just be that they're replying not actually thinking in the conversation and that they don't
01:50:58
Female Panel (mixed)actually uh find Value in you anymore because they just got what they got so then you realize I got this because then you no no no continue continue so then
01:51:07
Female Panel (mixed)you kind of learn okay if I give it up on the first night uh from this pattern that I've been experiencing they don't usually find uh value in me I see they
01:51:19
Brian Atlasnever wanted you for a long-term relationship to begin with a so you've had these experiences where you had sex with a guy quickly he didn't want a long-term relationship to begin
01:51:32
Brian Atlaswith and now you're going to attribute this perhaps to uh other men that perhaps do want a long-term relationship but if you sleep with them too quickly they're no longer going to want the long-term relationship kind of
01:51:45
Female Panel (mixed)like guys spending money at the ship Club no I guess it was maybe maybe just uh maybe not seeing in that perspective I was I was naive and I also yeah maybe they just didn't want anything to begin
01:51:56
Brian Atlaswith let me look I guess I'll paint it like this so in the same way that women are not vending machines that you put niceness tokens into and sex comes out men are not vending machines in a
01:52:09
Brian Atlassimilar way where you put sex tokens into and you get a relationship out of them yeah I was I mean everyone everyone learns their own lessons yeah I mean look there and to be fair though there
01:52:18
Brian Atlasare plenty of men in in furtherance and then and in an effort to get sex from you will lie about their intentions they'll say oh yeah I'm looking for something
01:52:30
Brian Atlasserious and I want a relationship and they will perhaps use this to make you give it up when you otherwise wouldn't um I do appreciate that you're looking at both sides and not just
01:52:42
Brian Atlassaying that maybe women will manipulate but yes that's so it's good that you're saying both yeah men men manipulate men will do this all the time you know and I'm sure maybe some of you have had this experience where
01:52:53
Brian Atlasuh you know the guy said here's his intentions and then well his intentions didn't really right pan out to be that way although there's like all kinds of things that can happen after sex where
01:53:04
Brian Atlaslike maybe that was the guy's intentions but like you guys had sex and then uh it wasn't the sex it was just like your conduct post sex was like I'm not saying like uh the [ __ ] pillow talk I'm just
01:53:17
Brian Atlassaying like you're not owed a relationship after you have sex with us if your conduct is [ __ ] dog awful prior or post sex conduct conduct I'm
01:53:28
Brian Atlasnot saying like in that moment after sex well no it's like you're a woman and then like the guy has sex with you and you start treating him horribly or whatever oh yeah no of course just because you [ __ ] a guy and you're like still a piece of [ __ ] doesn't mean he
01:53:40
Female Panel (mixed)owes you a relationship of course not so I agree with Sienna though there is a learning curve I think at least for me personally but I also like I really love like kind of what you're talking about cuz I was always told like you're going to get left if you give it away too easy and but like obviously let them let them
01:53:53
Female Panel (mixed)leave you cuzz they're not going to stay they're never going to they're not going to stay you got to find somebody who loves you for you the dirty gritty people go through Mental Health crisis they go through physical crisis they go
01:54:04
Female Panel (mixed)through financial crisises you need somebody who who sees you and just loves you for your raw self and doesn't like and you're not going to find that by just manipulating into a relationship or pretending to be something you're not if
01:54:17
Female Panel (mixed)you like sex and you're [ __ ] say hey I like sex and I'm a [ __ ] and if they [ __ ] you and they leave cool deuces I'll find somebody else that actually loves me for me and I have so just coming from personal relationship personal