Rachel Wilson vs. Feminist Conservative Driena Sixto Debate | Whatever Debates 26
Date: 2026-03-29
Duration: 6h 07m
Brian AtlasIdentified Speakers
SPEAKER_01Driena Sixto(guest)
SPEAKER_03Rachel Wilson(guest)
SPEAKER_05Brian Atlas(host)
Key Moments
00:00:16
IntroBrian introduces debate: Rachel Wilson vs Driena Sixto
00:25:17
Key MomentRachel: if women didn't vote, there would never be another Democrat president
01:43:03
Key MomentRachel demolishes economic argument for low birth rates: poorest people have most children
02:25:30
QuoteDriena's closing: suggests Rachel take one-way trip to Iran if she doesn't like women's rights
05:38:09
QuoteRachel's closing: Driena came unarmed to a debate. If it was a beauty pageant she'd do great.
Topics Discussed
00:25:17
Women's Suffrage and 19th Amendment
Central debate. Rachel argues women shouldn't vote. Driena argues voting is inherent right.
00:45:23
Prenuptial Agreements
Extended debate between Rachel and Driena on prenups and financial independence in marriage.
01:02:10
Pornography: Ban or Free Speech?
Rachel advocates criminalizing porn. Driena opposes banning despite agreeing its harmful.
01:38:32
Birth Rate Collapse
Rachel argues women's access to education is #1 correlate to declining birth rates.
02:42:09
Force and Patriarchy
Rachel argues rights only exist because men with force grant them.
Transcript
Page 3 of 7
01:55:33
Rachel Wilson>> We're experiencing a birth rate collapse. And it's created labor shortages and it's created supply chain problems. >> Why would women want to have kids if you know we're in if they know that the market for the kids when they do get
01:55:45
Driena Sixtoborn, they're not going to have the same opportunities they had growing up because we've got shitty politicians that are importing people from all over the world. Women aren't having babies because shitty politicians are allowing too many immigrants.
01:55:58
Rachel Wilson>> Uh, that's a big >> Is there any point at which it's the women's choices to sherk their duty to have children? Are we ever going to hold the women accountable and say maybe the
01:56:08
Rachel Wilsonvalues are wrong? Maybe maybe the women should say, you know what, I think it's a really valuable thing to produce another generation to keep this beautiful, wonderful world that I get to enjoy going. >> Beautiful concept and I agree with it.
01:56:21
Driena SixtoHowever, >> well, you'll talk about what men should do. Why won't we talk about what women should do? >> Women should also, again, contribute to their society. They should >> There's one thing we need women to do more of, and it's have babies. We don't
01:56:34
Driena Sixtoneed more media girls. We don't need more psychology majors. We don't need more retail workers. >> How do you convince women to to have more kids? >> Well, I'll tell you, please. >> So, in a famous
01:56:47
Rachel Wilson>> in this economy here, >> famous interview in the 19 Well, you can't. You got to fix the whole system. That's the point. >> You can't fix the entire world. You don't have to fix the whole world. I'm going to tell you for the US. >> Yeah. Okay. I'll tell you if you can just listen.
01:57:01
Rachel Wilson>> Sure. >> In the 70s, Betty Ferdan and Simone de Bouvo had a famous interview where Simone said, >> "I think the problem is that we give women the option to stay home." I'm paraphrasing, but she said, "I don't think the world should be that way at
01:57:13
Rachel Wilsonall. I think that if we give that option, too many women will choose it, and that's not how society will run." I agree with her and I believe that I think if women have the option to stay
01:57:24
Rachel Wilsonhome that they would I think if they had the opportunity to be mothers and be and be happy with being wives, mothers, having their sisters around them. Here's what happened. We pushed women into the
01:57:36
Rachel Wilsonworkforce in the 1970s in huge numbers. >> Who did that? Was the US government and people that wanted more >> tax? The government, the CIA, and the universities who wanted this big massive college. So we agree on that. the big
01:57:48
Rachel Wilsonmassive college loan kind of scam where you tell the women take out a loan, go to college so you can have financial >> they wanted more taxpayers paying into the system.
01:57:57
Rachel Wilson>> Exactly. So what we do is that created a two-inccome econ economy. The reason it's and there were other factors in the e economy declining but we've had ups and downs economically throughout all of
01:58:10
Rachel Wilsonhistory >> to also include technology right AI all that stuff industrialization. Uhhuh. >> Yeah. Well, the point is that some women have always worked and some women can
01:58:21
Rachel Wilsonand should work. I don't see any problem with it. Mothers, if we take mothers out of the workforce, we used to have things like breadwinner laws where only the men were responsible for uh the debts in the
01:58:33
Rachel Wilsonfamily. We used to have things like clauses in women's employment contracts where once you were married, we consider you taken care of financially by your husband because he's the one responsible
01:58:43
Rachel Wilsonfor that, not you. And so we're going to give that job to an unmarried woman, a widow, somebody who actually needs the job because women's jobs were limited. They we didn't have this huge equal
01:58:54
Rachel Wilsonworkforce with 50% men and 50% women. Basically, it's a little off, but that's basically what we have now. That created a permanent twoinome trap where now
01:59:04
Rachel Wilsonwomen like me who want to stay home can't afford it. And many women who I hear from all over the country saying, "I would love to stay home with my kids, but it's really tough." >> This is not something you can change and
01:59:16
Rachel Wilsonfix today. The reality of this problem is that it's going to be a multi-generational fix. And it starts with what we value. And we need to stop valuing careerwoman, careerism, Sarah,
01:59:28
Rachel WilsonJessica Parker, Sex in the City. >> How do you sell that to women? >> Well, you don't. See, this is the problem. >> How do you take away their options to choose? >> No. Nope. It's not like that. every the the way the world works is based off incentive. >> Yeah.
01:59:40
Rachel Wilson>> Just like how are you going to convince the men not to watch porn? You're not. It's addictive. And people have base instincts and they >> incentive to have a family that's functional in the future and be a functional adult. That should be
01:59:52
Rachel Wilson>> But we've we've convinced women like you that what they should value is success, get your bag, have finances. >> I didn't say that. I said >> you're 32. You you've been married. You could be married, but you have other
02:00:04
Driena Sixtovalues. You don't have children for a reason. I would assume married permanently. I think the single most important decision a person could make is who they decide to have children
02:00:15
Driena Sixtowith. I think that's the most important. And so yes, I think both men and women should be extremely selective and choosy
02:00:25
Driena Sixtowith that decision because that's going to ultimately uh determine whether the child grows up in a stable household. So, I am not going to pressure women to
02:00:37
Rachel Wilsonjust have kids as soon as they press. I'm talking about setting up incentives for the things we want to see. And what we do by giving we give women
02:00:47
Rachel Wilsonspecifically, we give women free college loans. We give them uh free loans to start businesses. We have done all this affirmative action stuff for the last 50 years to push and push and push and
02:00:59
Rachel Wilsonincentivize women to focus on career, focus on joining the workforce, reject motherhood. It's icky. Kids are gross and they're and they're it's hard and you don't want to do that. It's going to
02:01:09
Rachel Wilsonruin your body. There's so much anti anti-mhood propaganda. the whole pop culture. You can't name a single pop star or movie star who's an
02:01:19
Rachel Wilsoninfluential woman who doesn't have the boss girl strong woman through your sexuality message. All of them do. Be sexy and hot like me and and make your money and ew men are gross and they're
02:01:31
Driena Sixtostupid and Sabrina Carpenter telling the whole world men are useless. >> You're broad, which I disagree with, but again, you're broadly generalizing women this, women that. I'm saying the
02:01:43
Rachel Wilsonincentives societywide through the pop culture, through the education system, through the government, every institution tells women motherhood is for stupid losers and strong woman sexy
02:01:55
Rachel Wilsongirl boss babe stuff is for winners. And we have to change those incentives. If we truly value family, wait, just let me finish. Just let me finish. I'm not saying force. I'm saying incentivize.
02:02:06
Rachel WilsonYou should know this if you work in politics. If we incentivize people to come across the border cuz they're going to get free we're going to get more of that. You get more of whatever you incentivize and you get less of whatever you stigmatize. We need to
02:02:19
Rachel Wilsonstigmatize >> sexy girl boss babe stuff. We need to >> by taking back the institutions and the culture. >> How? >> That's what you said, right? >> Yeah. How are you going to do that?
02:02:31
Rachel Wilson>> By by me going on these podcasts and writing books and talking to people like you and now there's a bunch >> they shouldn't vote. That's how you're gonna That's how you're gonna get them to go back to >> Do you know how many women actually don't want to vote? It's a lot. Okay.
02:02:43
Rachel WilsonYou would be shocked. >> Yeah, I'm sure. But it's not. >> They just don't care that much. The truth is whenever we have a dating panel, Brian, um >> the majority of women >> most of the girls when you say how, no,
02:02:54
Rachel WilsonI don't want to vote. If you say to if you say to all the Can you let me talk? >> Please. >> They're not curated. >> Yes. >> Wait, what do you mean? >> She's saying that you specifically pick girls. This is what everybody thinks
02:03:06
Rachel Wilsonabout the podcast. And I I wish this was true because I'm so blackpilled and I wish I wasn't. But all the young women I speak to, not just here, but on other podcasts and other debates that I do,
02:03:18
Driena Sixto>> you ask them who they voted for, they usually haven't. They usually don't vote until they're older and married. It doesn't matter who some of the college radicals do. The facts are that a majority of women vote and do care about voting because they vote Republican,
02:03:31
Rachel Wilsonbecause they vote Democrat, and because they voted more than men have. >> What I'm telling you is I'm not trying to convince women the way that you're thinking. I'm talking about systemic
02:03:42
Rachel Wilsonincentive. I'm saying do things like what Hungary did where if you have three or more children, you never pay taxes again. Um, we make marriage uh an ecclesiastical
02:03:53
Rachel Wilsongoverned thing again where it's no longer this this no fault government that you want. Absolutely not. >> You go to your church that I want. What's the thing that I want? >> You you are you like government marriage with prenuptual agreements and no fault
02:04:07
Driena Sixtodivorce. >> Um I believe that the government should have never gotten into marriages. >> Okay. Who should have governed marriage then? I believe that I believe that because you just told me you believe
02:04:18
Driena Sixtothis and this and that and it's said and it's inaccurate. Um I believe in people being able to get out of bad marriages. Absolutely. >> Do you think they couldn't before?
02:04:30
Driena Sixto>> And and uh >> without previous without certain legal protections. Let's say that you are in a domestically in a marriage where you
02:04:40
Driena Sixtohave domestic violence, domestic abuse, >> but you don't have the money to get a lawyer because there's usually financial abuse involved as well. So there's no way for you to even So there's usually
02:04:52
Driena Sixtono way emotional abuse, too. >> So there's no way No, I actually have the data on that, too. So there's no way for you to prove that you're being abused. And so that goes against their
02:05:03
Rachel Wilsontheir rights. And I don't want women to be stuck in bad marriages. So do >> you know how many marriages I agree >> do you know how many women were granted divorce in the year 1900? So this is
02:05:14
Rachel Wilsonbefore the 19th before no fault. I don't care because the it's irrelevant to the point that I'm making which is >> 55,700 divorces in the year 1900. You can't tell me that women couldn't get
02:05:27
Rachel Wilsondivorces. Yes, they could. >> Good. I'm not saying >> they just didn't because it was highly stigmatized. It wasn't practical. and the incentives were not there. And what we've built now is a system that
02:05:37
Rachel Wilsonincentivizes divorce. It incentivizes waiting till your 30s to even start a family. And that's what needs to change. So, we need to shift it and make it cool again to get married.
02:05:50
Rachel Wilson>> We need to make it cool to get married young, to stay together. We should not be allowing or glorifying only fans, chicks, Instagram bikini babes, all that needs to go. I I absolutely agree
02:06:03
Driena Sixtowith all of that. It's something that I practice in my personal life, obviously. Um but again, the answer the the solution to to things is never to do
02:06:14
Driena Sixtoanything by force or by taking away options, right? Do we want strong marriages? Yes. Uh do we want divorces? No. Do we think that it's a good idea to
02:06:24
Driena Sixtoban divorces so that people are stuck in abusive relationships? Do you think I want a divorce ban or do you think I cuz that's not what I want. What I want is >> where you have like we always had for
02:06:37
Rachel Wilsonall of human history until 50 years ago. If you want a divorce, ideally it should be through your church. You should have to go to your ecclesiastical authority. So I'm an Orthodox Christian. If Andrew and I um and this I know a woman that this
02:06:50
Rachel Wilsonhappened to that there was actually legitimate horrific abuse. She went to her priest and to her bishop and she said, "This is what's going on." She had other people who were willing to say yes, we think this is going on. She was
02:07:03
Driena Sixtogranted a divorce because of the extreness of the situation. What we have now, >> what does that have to do with the kids? What happens with the kids? What happens with dividing uh assets that they both had? Is the church does it have any kind of dominion over those kinds of
02:07:16
Rachel Wilsondecisions? It does not. >> No. Historically, this is not it. But what we're talking about is prescriptions. And I'm telling you the way we fix this is if my church governed my marriage, the church would say, "Okay,
02:07:29
Rachel Wilson>> we're going to help take care of you financially." This is what used to happen under most churches. If there was a situation where the woman was abandoned, abused, say the husband was crazy, uh, violent, any of these things
02:07:41
Driena Sixtothat's like >> uh that it depends. That depends. >> Would you be okay >> from a religious? Do you believe it's okay or do you believe that people
02:07:52
Rachel Wilsonshould stay in marriages when the other person is cheats on them or commits adultery? >> Well, so adultery can be a reason for divorce. It depends and that's a personal thing that you have to go
02:08:05
Rachel Wilsonthrough with your spiritual father because >> that's the number one cause of divorce by the way. Yes, it is. >> No, the number one reason that women give for why they leave is growing
02:08:15
Rachel Wilsonapart, irreconcilable differences. uh we just don't get along. Uh infidelity is more like number three or number four. I've researched this quite a lot as well. And I've had this debate multiple
02:08:27
Rachel Wilsontimes. It's usually like third, fourth, or fifth on the list depending on what survey you look at. Number one. >> No. All No, it's not. Infidelity is not number one. Absolutely not. It's like third or fourth on the list. But uh from
02:08:39
Rachel Wilsona religious perspective, of course, it's immoral. We don't say cheating is okay. We don't say cheating is good. But it doesn't automatically mean that in every case of infidelity, you must divorce. I
02:08:50
Rachel Wilsonknow couples and everybody knows couples where they've worked past that. Now, if it's a serial if it's if it's a serial problem or if there's a good reason, uh there's a lot of factors. This is a personal thing. This is why it shouldn't
02:09:04
Rachel Wilsonbe done through the government. It should be done through the church, >> through your priest and your bishop who know you and know your situation and can mediate disagreements because you don't just break up a family for for any reason.
02:09:16
Driena Sixto>> Just one of one of the many things I you can go ahead and look it up top reasons for divorce 3 found that when divorced individuals are asked open-endedly to provide their reasons
02:09:26
Driena Sixtofor divorce the most cited reasons were infidelity 21.6% incompatibility 19.2% 2% drinking or drug use, which I also agree with, 10.6% um in most studies, infidelity is the
02:09:40
Rachel Wilsonnumber one reason. >> You would have to give me your source and I would have to look at it. It's most likely going to be a survey. >> It's going to be most likely a survey of about 100 to 300 people.
02:09:51
Brian Atlas>> This is from the NIH >> wants me to go through here.gov. Um >> well >> and we we do have to differentiate between for example surveys and what is
02:10:03
Rachel Wilsonactually cited in the legal divorce proceedings. >> You were wrong where right here. Uh so the results of the study uh reasons for divorce table one presents the major
02:10:14
Rachel Wilsoncontributors for divorce list. Overall the results indicate that the most often cited reasons for divorce at the individual level were lack of commitment 75%. >> Another pretty word for infidelity.
02:10:25
Rachel WilsonThat's not infidelity. Lack of commitment means you don't think the person is fully in it with you. That's what that means. >> Sure. >> Cuz if you kept reading,
02:10:36
Rachel Wilson>> the next one down the list is infidelity. So the first reason in this particular study, which I'll have to go over it, but the number one is lack of
02:10:46
Rachel Wilsoncommitment. That 75% for lack of commitment. So the majority is I feel like he's not really trying like I'm really trying. That's the definition you're giving it.
02:10:56
Rachel Wilson>> Um, infidelity is commitment 59% and too much conflict in arguing 57. So people can give multiple reasons. So what you're getting with these is >> we already had a problem.
02:11:09
Rachel Wilson>> Mhm. >> We already were fighting. >> And then one or both of us cheated. It does not say he cheated on her. It says infidelity. That could mean they both cheated. So, one thing I've noticed about you is you're actually not very
02:11:22
Driena Sixtogood at reading data and interpreting it. You're not actually good at reading a study and understanding what it says. >> Uh, no. You first thing there says lack of commitment. Um, and >> yeah, and you interpreted that as
02:11:34
Brian Atlasinfidelity when the next >> is it not? >> That does not mean there was infidelity. See what I mean? >> Might I just offer clarification from what what I looked up? So, there there's
02:11:45
Brian Atlastwo different categories. So now commitment to loyalty or faithfulness could be a thing but what and Rachel is correct separated into two categories
02:11:57
Brian Atlasdifferent categories. Lack of commitment is one category infidelity cheating is another so extrammarital affairs but so under lack of commitment it describes it as when the partner stops trying uh they
02:12:09
Brian Atlasfeel unappreciated or uh decide the relationship is no longer a priority. So I guess in this context, lack of commitment doesn't necessarily imply uh
02:12:20
Rachel Wilsona uh infidelity or cheating necessarily. >> That's the By the way, that's the exact same data that I cited in a portion. We just did a whole brand new debate course on debateuniversity.com. And all you
02:12:32
Rachel Wilsonguys who bought part one, you can get a big discount on part two, which is all about debating feminism. And in my section, I use that same data to uh argue my position. So that's how I knew
02:12:44
Driena Sixtothat she was wrong on that and that she was kind of mis misreading or twisting. >> The original uh question and point was do you believe that women or just people in a marriage that suffer infidelity
02:12:55
Rachel Wilsonfrom the other partner should not be able to divorce their >> No, I would never say that you should never be able to. It depends. I wouldn't say that every instance of infidelity must necessitate divorce though either. >> I'm not saying that. I'm saying should
02:13:09
Rachel Wilsonthey be able to. >> Sometimes it depends. Sometimes you do. Sometimes it's up to what you randomly decide. >> I think marriage should be governed by the church and if it's governed by
02:13:21
Rachel Wilsonecclesiastical authority, >> this country runs. >> It should though and it did. So I'm saying let's go back to that because that was better. >> This country is not run by your personal Christian orthodox.
02:13:34
Rachel Wilson>> That's not what I mean. Your church. So if you're Mormon, you get married in the Mormon church and that ecclesiastical authority governs your marriage. And if there's a divorce, they help sort out
02:13:44
Rachel Wilsonwho gets what and what happens. And they're they are responsible for supporting women and children in the case of the husband doing something that would necessitate a divorce. That's how
02:13:55
Driena Sixtoit was all of history, >> right? Non-religious couples or some non do non-denominational Christian couple gets married. uh somebody cheats
02:14:07
Rachel Wilsonor do you believe that they are allowed to legally to get divorced or they should be allowed to? >> I don't recognize secular marriage. It's the same thing to me as gay marriage. All you're doing
02:14:18
Rachel Wilson>> but it exists even if you don't recognize what it is. But what it is reality, right? But what it is is not marriage. What you have as a secular person going through the state, which is
02:14:28
Rachel Wilsonwhy Brian's against it and a lot of men are are opting out. It's a gay roommate agreement. It's a very homosexual thing in nature if you ask me. Uh you are like uh let's make a boyfriend girlfriend
02:14:41
Rachel Wilsonliving arrangement like like Sheldon on the Big Bang Theory how he would make the roommate agreement. It's a glorified roommate agreement that's enforced by the state. There's no religious duty. There's no moral duty. It's not a
02:14:53
Rachel Wilsonlifelong commitment. You have an easier time getting out of your cell phone contract or out of a divorce in a secular situation than you do breaking your cell phone contract. You have better luck. You went Yeah. You got a
02:15:06
Driena Sixtodivorce that you just signed the paper and now you're divorced. You have a harder time with Verizon. It's harder to break up with Verizon. >> Thankfully, I uh the first time around, even though, you know, we were young and
02:15:18
Driena Sixtopicked people that we grew apart from, at least I picked a decent person. And so it was, you know, we're still amicable with each other and would be there for each other in any kind of situation. But that's good.
02:15:30
Driena Sixto>> But um >> I'm just saying like all it is now is it's just a basic roommate agreement and then you go I don't like this anymore. So it's done. >> It's a really entangled legal situation
02:15:42
Driena Sixtoespecially when uh shared assets exist and especially if kids exist. You try to you try to get into a divorce proceeding
02:15:52
Driena Sixtowhen kids are when kids are involved and it's it takes years to resolve. >> In my case, it only took maybe less than 6 months, but yeah, it's just it's
02:16:03
Rachel Wilsonhorrible. But it should my view is that it should only be for serious situations. You're in danger. There's something drastically. I don't. But
02:16:14
Rachel Wilsonwe're talking about who should and I'm saying it should be the church because marriage is a lifelong religious sacrament. If all you want is a roommate agreement, I don't care what you do.
02:16:25
Driena Sixto>> I don't make policy recommendations based on religious arguments. >> Even if I even if I hold the same values as you do, that's not you're doing the thing that you're doing the thing that
02:16:37
Rachel Wilsonso many people like uh not so aerodite tries to do this. I have a set of morals for myself and what I think is right or wrong. I have a set of morals, but I'm not going to force it on anyone. I think every we should just default to
02:16:49
Driena Sixtosecularism and that's another big reason why we're in this mess. >> So, we do have sep separation of church and state for a reason. Um, >> is morality objective or not?
02:17:00
Driena Sixto>> Uh, I think that morality is dependent on you know what our beliefs come from from God, right? like basically whatever you know what I think there's objective
02:17:11
Rachel Wilsonright and wrong regardless of what you believe according to your religion >> okay if that's the case if if we know objectively what's right and wrong >> why wouldn't we organize society along
02:17:24
Driena Sixtothat and not just what this person might think is wrong on that day and then Bob thinks wrong next >> let me let me uh name some of those things it is objectively wrong to kill a person unless it is in self-defense.
02:17:38
Driena SixtoWhy? >> Right? Because people have inherent uh human value. So that is I don't care what your religion is. >> And you think that's based on God. >> If you think I think that's an objective
02:17:49
Driena Sixtomoral uh basically decision, >> what if someone doesn't believe that? What if somebody says I don't think that people have inherent human? I'm giving you an example of things that I believe are across the board that I don't think
02:18:02
Driena Sixtouh matter or change depending on a person's religion like uh the right of a person to live unless of course you know they've threatened somebody else and and whatnot. So I think that's an example of
02:18:14
Driena Sixtothat and you asked to name one. So yes, objective morality does exist. there's uh you know you shouldn't steal, you shouldn't um because that again is
02:18:26
Driena Sixtotaking away from somebody else's property which is wrong and you don't need a religion to >> basically support that and that there is a religion that's where you're wrong. That's where you're religion that supports
02:18:38
Rachel Wilson>> there are people who there are people who are secularists who don't believe stealing is wrong. >> They think stealing through taxation is correct. They black lives matter think that you know we're living on stolen land and you got to give it back and all
02:18:51
Rachel Wilsonthese kinds of things. There's a lot of people who you're taking the moral Christian moral paradigm for granted and saying it's objective when there are when if we separate church and state. Yeah, that's Christian. Those are
02:19:04
Driena SixtoChristian values. >> People have a right to live unless they are um unless they're basically threatened. That you think that's Christian? >> Do you think there's any other religion that holds that? You think that that
02:19:15
Rachel Wilsonwasn't the case before Christianity? >> No, it it absolutely wasn't. In in the ancient pagan world, there was no right to life. There was no human dignity. That did not exist. >> Okay. I
02:19:26
Driena Sixto>> They did human sacrifice. >> Yes. Some absolutely some religions and different sex did those things. >> Okay. Go to an Islamic country and ask them if they think everyone has a right
02:19:38
Rachel Wilsonto live. >> But it absolutely did exist. Especially in Nordic. Especially, you know, >> Nordic. >> They did human sacrifice, too. And they conquered and killed people. Dri, no. They didn't believe that it was wrong to
02:19:51
Rachel Wilsonkill people and take their stuff. You just said Vikings >> and you're trying to tell me Vikings thought it was wrong to take over people's land and kill them. Isn't that like legitimately what they did >> in their own in your own society? I'm
02:20:05
Rachel Wilsonnot talking about conquering. >> Well, that's subjective. >> Tell me or tell me. They did not have a concept of objective human rights and objective morality. They sayist
02:20:16
Rachel WilsonChristianity Christianity is the only religion that has universal morals. Every other religion and system says there's what's right for us and then there's what we do to other people. Are you not aware of that?
02:20:28
Driena Sixto>> Uh I'm not aware of the I don't know how many religions that exist and what each of them it doesn't mean that you're right. know what Buddhism any other religion >> Buddhism uh what it prescribes I don't
02:20:41
Driena Sixtobelieve Buddhism prescribes that you know one set of rules for us another set of rules for them um >> Buddhism does not have an objective universal moral framework only
02:20:51
Driena SixtoChristianity does >> okay so again I set one example which is you said oh you know all of the other religions prescribe one thing for their people and another thing for other people and I just told you like that one
02:21:04
Rachel Wilsondoesn't and I don't I'm not even an expert. >> I'm telling you that Buddhism does not believe in objective morality that applies to everyone. It's it's very like uh you find your zen by just you know
02:21:17
Rachel Wilsonwhat's right for people and you let them find their way. It's it's not here's what's right. Here's what's wrong and it's the same regardless of the people or the place >> by >> or the situation
02:21:28
Driena Sixto>> by again by your definitions. And since Rachel there's so many different religions again this is why we don't prescribe policy based on religion
02:21:38
Rachel Wilsonproblem your mic a little bit. >> You if you don't then by then by that very definition you are making subjective prescriptions. Um, what if
02:21:49
Driena Sixtopeople that have a completely different worldview and a different religion than you came to power and then tried to impose their religious beliefs on you? Would that be okay?
02:22:01
Rachel Wilson>> They have and they do. And that's just an an is statement. >> So, isn't the problem why Christians need to have power of the government? Because if we don't, someone else will.
02:22:12
Driena Sixtoor the solution is to take away the power of the government to make those kinds of selective. >> Do you want to get into that? >> Do you want to get into that argument? Cuz I don't think you do. So you think
02:22:24
Driena Sixtothat if we have a secular government where the church is separated from the state, we're going to end up with fairness and human rights. Is that what you think? >> No. What I'm saying is it sets a
02:22:33
Driena Sixtodangerous precedent to set laws based on our particular religions because then that's >> and what do we base them on? >> Then we base them on objective morality. Right?
02:22:46
Driena Sixto>> There is no such thing as objective morality according to you. >> We base it we base it on protecting the right of the individual. that that I think is the ultimate um
02:22:58
Rachel Wilson>> then you would have to goal then you would have to have legal abortion you'd have to have legal pornography you'd have to have legal drug because protecting the right of an individual >> because it's this is the libertarian
02:23:10
Rachel Wilsonargument which is why earlier when you said I think people should be able to do what they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. >> Yes. >> That is the same argument libertarians and classical liberals have used since the enlightenment to say you can't tell
02:23:22
Rachel Wilsonme I can't smoke this weed. I'm not hurting anybody, bro. You can't tell me I can't abort this baby. It's my body. >> Uh, no. >> That that thing is not a person. It's
02:23:32
Driena Sixtojust a clump of falls apart very easily because of using biology as an argument, not using a religious argument. You use biology as an argument because again,
02:23:42
Driena Sixtothe embryo is an individual by all senses of like the definition. It's just part of the human um >> development. How has it worked out for us? Around the world, when we let
02:23:54
Rachel Wilsonsecularists make the laws, they always make abortion legal. And they make abortion legal based on bodily autonomy and libertarian principles of I should be able to do what I want. It's my body, my choice. >> And they're making just because they get
02:24:08
Driena Sixtowhat they want. It doesn't mean that their argument was valid, right? Because they're just it without an objective religious moral framework. just this is going to be like way over her head. So, we'll just go back to like no fault
02:24:21
Brian Atlasdivorce or something. >> Also, we do have some chats that came through. So, why don't we uh do a few chats? I think we've got about five or six. We have Chaw XD. So, our choice is
02:24:31
Brian Atlasto marry FEMCON women who we're equals with and will allow for the proliferation of love and tell us it's all our fault or go to Iran.
02:24:42
Driena Sixto>> Iran ain't looking too bad suddenly. Uh would you like to respond to that? I'm sure you could I'm sure uh you could find the kind of uh submissive women that don't want to vote
02:24:54
Driena Sixto>> um and don't want to have financial freedom in Iran. So, you know what? I I recommend it. You know, one way ticket over there. Abs. So, absolutely. And again, this falls an easy debate.
02:25:08
Driena SixtoShe just came right out and said the quiet part out loud. >> Uh, again under hypocrisy, you know, because the basic argument Rachel's trying to make with her book is that women shouldn't vote, but she does vote
02:25:19
Driena Sixtoherself. And she just said in this that she'll all the women can't vote. I won't vote either. >> Sure. And that's not going to happen. So you're basing your >> Well, I wouldn't be so sure about that.
02:25:31
Rachel WilsonThey said Row versus Wade couldn't be overturned and we got that one. And I think a lot of people are waking up. >> Do you actually think it's possible that the 19th Amendment >> Not only do I think it's possible? It is
02:25:42
Rachel Wilsoninevitable. And I'll tell you why. Yeah, you can laugh. But I'll tell you why. All the men watching this and all the men out there have started to figure out that this feminism BS
02:25:54
Rachel Wilson>> is only there because they facilitate and allow it. And if at any moment men go, "Yeah, this was a shitty experiment that didn't work. It needs to go to the dust bin of history. we know more of this then tomorrow it stops.
02:26:06
Rachel Wilson>> You think that would actually happen? >> They we figured out that universal democracy, one person, one vote, basically provides this huge front for a shadow oligarchy. It does not provide you with more happen. What would be the time frame? Do you think in your lifetime?
02:26:19
Rachel Wilson>> Oh, I don't know. It could take it could be 20 years. It could be a thousand years. But with the birth rates dropping like they are, this situation that you think is so great is literally unsustainable. >> Wait, what's the situation that I think
02:26:32
Rachel Wilsonis so great? the whole like women should be financially independent, everyone should have their own money, and we should all just be uh rugged individualists, and every p every person gets a vote.
02:26:42
Driena Sixto>> No, I think that when we each have individual rights and and liberties, we can come together in a community a lot better because we're coming we're coming out of from a point of consent, but we've had that,
02:26:56
Driena Sixto>> not out of force. >> We've had that for over a hundred years. And what has Yes, we have. 19 1974 is when women finally were able to be financially equivalent to men. >> Women were always Yes. We need to talk about this because
02:27:09
Rachel Wilson>> let's go there. >> You're going to say that because some or most women >> Mhm. >> weren't approved for loans or credit cards. >> Yes. >> That they weren't allowed and that's not the case. So this is what feminism
02:27:21
Driena Sixtorelies on. Again, get the new feminism debate course cuz I break this down like no other. 1974 >> the the finally could have credit and were finally able to get loans without a male signature. This is 52 years ago.
02:27:33
Driena Sixto>> You're just wrong. You're just wrong. >> What do you mean? Is that >> you can explain it if you want to pull that up if that's a >> but the framing of how you're saying it is totally >> I'm telling you a law passed right. What
02:27:44
Rachel Wilsonframing is there? It's a fact 197 people who aren't very smart. I'm sure the framing doesn't matter. I as soon as you're done yapping, I'll just Equal Credit Opportunity Act passed. You can
02:27:56
Driena Sixtopull this up. Equal Credit Opportunity Act 1974. >> I know that happened. >> That allowed women to finally get credit >> and that finally allowed women to get loans without a male signature. That
02:28:08
Brian Atlashappened 52 years ago. Women weren't financially >> If she stops talking, I'll explain how wrong. >> Well, I I guess question for you. One point of clarification. Were women legally barred prior to it? >> Yes. No, they were not.
02:28:21
Driena Sixto>> Or were some banks? >> It didn't. Yes. Correct. There were basically there wasn't uh protection that required that all women totally Yeah, I can totally break this down. So
02:28:33
Rachel Wilsonnow it's my turn. What what she's doing is a classic She doesn't realize this is what it is, but it's classic feminist framing to make it sound a certain way when it wasn't. >> It's facts. So before the equal
02:28:46
Rachel Wilson>> facts aren't feminist and they don't care about your feelings either. >> My god, >> are you done >> here? Let let Rachel >> let me explain what actually happened. So she's conflating and saying women
02:28:57
Rachel Wilsonwere not allowed. That's not the case. Banks for the most part did not often grant loans or credit cards or accounts to women who did not have employment the
02:29:10
Rachel Wilsonsame way they wouldn't now. So, if you went to a bank now as a man and you're 25 years old, you don't have a job, you live at home with your mom, you don't have any established credit, and you
02:29:21
Rachel Wilsondon't have any way to pay a loan back. Are they going to grant you a loan? No. Okay? There was no law saying women cannot have these things. It simply was the case most of the time. Now, there
02:29:32
Rachel Wilsonwere plenty of women and I have multiple I have multiple examples in the feminist debate course where I show you all the women who did have bank loans, credit
02:29:42
Rachel Wilsoncards, bank accounts. Going back to the 1700s, women had these things. It just wasn't most women. You often needed your dad or your husband to sign for something because you didn't have a job
02:29:55
Rachel Wilsonbecause you were where you belonged in your home raising the next generation, which is the most important thing a woman can do with her life. So, yes. So, so what she just did was present disingenuous framing that makes it sound
02:30:08
Rachel Wilsonlike women weren't allowed these things. They were denied it. And what this Equality Act she's talking about, this Equal Financial Opportunity Law, what that did was That was um >> that's a great
02:30:21
Rachel Wilson>> It was It was because what it did was force. It's the same thing we do with uh everything else. All this DEI stuff, all of this >> to not discriminate based on gender. >> Just shut up for a minute and you can
02:30:32
Rachel Wilsonlearn. You can learn. Yes. We force institutions to grant loans. We say you have to give them this. You have to give them that. You have to prove you have to prove that you're not discriminating
02:30:44
Rachel Wilsonbased on sex by offering women these things. even if you know it's a financial risk, even if the bank wouldn't normally make that decision >> for business reasons.
02:30:55
Rachel Wilson>> So this law, what this law did was force the hand of the government to step in and try to force equality, and you say you're against that. You say you're against the government coming in and forcing equality, but you back all this DEI nonsense. You back affirmative
02:31:08
Driena Sixtoaction. >> You just said a lie, which is that this law forced banks to give women loans, and it didn't. All it did is guarantee that they didn't discriminate on the giving of loans or credit based on
02:31:21
Rachel Wilsongender. >> Don't you think that banks don't you think that businesses should be able to deny service to anyone they want for any reason or not? >> Because of gender because of gender? No. Absolutely not. >> Okay. Well, that's a progressive
02:31:32
Driena Sixtoposition. Do you think that bakeries should a Christian bakery have to bake a gay wedding cake? >> Let me finish. I'm talking about financial financial rights, right? No, I don't believe a bank should deny uh any
02:31:45
Driena Sixtokind of services to people based on their gender because then they could also deny services or loans or credit based on race. It should be it should be Rachel, let me finish. It should be based on the person's credit history,
02:31:57
Rachel Wilsonability to pay back, all of that stuff. The things that normally >> banks take into consideration. That's not what that did because it was
02:32:07
Rachel Wilsontelling it did not force banks to give credit. It created a situation where the government is now watching the bank and if they don't have a certain percentage, it's the same thing they did with DEI
02:32:20
Rachel Wilsonhiring and with affirmative action and college, you know, letting women and minorities into college. So, what this did was a bank might look at a woman and say, "Okay, she just got
02:32:31
Rachel Wilsondivorced. She's only had a job for a month. The odds of her being able to pay back a loan or a credit card are like not good." Normally as a business decision, we would say no to this person
02:32:42
Rachel Wilsonregardless. But because she's a woman and we have to show a certain amount of women on our, you know, payroll, on our bank rolls that have accounts >> so that we don't get investigated and accused of denying women's rights.
02:32:56
Driena Sixto>> That doesn't happen. >> Now we're going to do that. That doesn't happen because the bank can then prove no. The reason we denied this woman >> I think we should have left it. reason why we denied this woman um you know credit is because she just you know got
02:33:09
Driena Sixtodivorced and she just you know >> they should be able to deny credit based on anything they want >> if somebody inquires about libertarian why do you want the government coming in and telling the bank who they have to loan money to >> if somebody inquires about if the
02:33:22
Driena Sixtogovernment decides to investigate a bank and says oh you know you're giving 80% of your credit and loans to men and to
02:33:32
Driena Sixtowomen, but the bank can prove, "Yeah, here's why we denied most of women's applications." They wouldn't get into any problems with the law. And this and this, >> if you're if you're a major bank, are
02:33:43
Driena Sixtoyou going to take that chance? No. >> And this opportunity and this uh act made that the case. It didn't force banks to give out credit or give out loans to people that didn't deserve them. That's actually something that
02:33:56
Driena Sixto>> But women were allowed. So, but the whole point is something women were allowed who own property, have jobs, have their own money. Were they not? >> That's something that the Clinton administration did. Um, and that's
02:34:09
Rachel Wilson>> She would love the Clinton. >> A big reason why we had the whole 2008 housing. >> Yes. Exactly. So, are you saying that it was illegal for women to have their own
02:34:19
Driena Sixtomoney or property prior to 1975? >> So, there's something called coverture laws, right? So if you were a married woman and uh you have joint property
02:34:30
Driena Sixtowith a man uh and that man was away for business or war whatever uh you still had no legal identity. It means that you could not sell the property or or do
02:34:42
Driena Sixtobusiness without their consent or anything like that. So no, you didn't have any kind of uh legal business standing those that So again, they did not have rights outside of the presence
02:34:56
Rachel Wilsonof a man. >> Okay, that's >> in a legal marriage where where both of their they both owned property supposedly. >> But here's the pro here's the problem with that. If you go back to again the anti-suffragists arguments to the
02:35:09
Rachel Wilsonsuffragists in the late 1800s, the middle 1800s even, >> the state of New York, this varied a lot by state. So this was not federal most of it for most of history. In the state of New York in 1870, if you were a
02:35:21
Rachel Wilsonwealthy woman and you went into a marriage with um an inheritance or a an expected inheritance and maybe you already owned property, maybe you had a wealthy dad and you owned a piece of
02:35:33
Rachel Wilsonland. In the state of New York, your husband was not allowed to get that in the divorce. He was not allowed to sell it or do anything with the land or the
02:35:43
Rachel Wilsonproperty or the money unless you said in front of a judge that you were giving him permission. And the judge had to be reasonably assured that you were not being coerced or forced or in any way
02:35:55
Rachel Wilsonpushed into doing that. And the women who were against suffrage cited these laws. There were breadwinner laws and there was other types of laws. They cited this as, "Look, we've got a really good deal and if you make us politically
02:36:07
Rachel Wilsonequal with men, all this equality feminism stuff, we're going to lose privileges and protections that we now enjoy under the law that we want to keep >> and that we were still today." >> No, there were a lot of protections in
02:36:21
Rachel Wilsonplace for women that we don't have anymore. So, if I had been divorced in 1870 and not 2006, I would have not been in the situation where here I am a single mom with kids
02:36:34
Rachel Wilsonand because my husband got into all kinds of trouble and I had to divorce him. >> Uh, now I've got to try to figure out how to support them. I've got to get a job. I've got to get on welfare. I've got to put them on Medicaid because I can't afford.
02:36:46
Rachel Wilson>> Do you think laws are more fair back in the day than they were now? When it comes >> laws back then protected vulnerable women better than they do now. Yes. And I have data that can >> I disagree with that position. >> No, it's I'm okay. So when the church
02:37:00
Rachel Wilsonwould step in and >> forget about the church the the law like we're talking about legal marriages. >> Why do you want the government to do all this if you're >> talking about reality right now? >> No. You said you want individual rights, but then you'll say but I want the
02:37:12
Driena Sixtogovernment to step in and protect women. Which is it? You have to pick one. >> I'm saying what we have in place right now. the protections in marriage and in divorce laws. You think that that is
02:37:25
Driena Sixtothat that was better back then than that it is right now that it protects >> I completely disagree with that >> as a broad picture >> for many reasons. I disagree with that because nowadays uh
02:37:35
Driena Sixto>> yeah cuz you want the right to courts take into consideration contributions beyond financial when it comes to marriages. So that's why >> I do have to uh let some more chats come
02:37:47
Brian Atlasin here. America. >> We have redacted 92. Totalization of reproductive control in females with secularization and feminism yields this pathology. The beast of vanity consumes
02:37:59
Brian Atlasfemales from within, ironically fulfilling their fear of obsolescence. >> Deep stuff. >> That was Shakespeare. >> Shakespeare right there from redacted
02:38:10
Brian Atlas92. Thank you very much for your message, guys. Uh we have uh six messages we need to get through, guys. If you want to get a message in right now, our read threshold is $99 and up. We have a $10 display. Also, like the
02:38:23
Brian Atlasvideo if you're enjoying the stream. We have based Justin coming in here with Oh, I triggered it twice. You're back. To summarize, feminist is as feminist
02:38:35
Brian Atlasdoes. Proof is in the pudding. You practice an emphasis on marriage and kids with only a latest boyfriend at 32ish with no kids. when family tick tock. Would you like to respond to that?
02:38:48
Driena Sixto>> Um, I'm glad that you're following my dating life so closely and are donating $100 or $200 every time I'm on the show to get a message out to me. But that is
02:38:58
Driena Sixtogoing fantastic. And like I said, the person that you have children with is the single most important decision you can make. Uh, I never I don't want to be
02:39:08
Driena Sixtoin a situation where, you know, I'm divorced uh and then my kids have to be raised by somebody else. So, I'm going to take my very sweet time to make sure
02:39:20
Driena Sixtothat I set up my family for success and I'm not a part of that divorce rate um after kids. I think that's one of the worst things anybody has to endure. Um,
02:39:32
Brian Atlas>> do you want kids? >> Yeah, absolutely. and I'm going to have kids and so you know thanks guys. >> Uh well thank you for that base Justin we have Chaw here. Thank you man. How are you invoking objective morality
02:39:44
Brian Atlasabsent an epistemic foundation that doesn't make any sense like you actually have no idea what you're talking about. Do you want to respond to that? >> Yeah. I think there's things that again
02:39:55
Driena Sixtoobjective morality just as you know shouldn't murder people for any reason. I think that that goes beyond religion. Um and we don't need what he means by epistemic foundation. >> I am not an expert of
02:40:08
Rachel Wilson>> absolutely every topic >> and that's understandable and that's fair. All that means is you have to have some so epistemology is just basically like how you know what you know or how you know what's true. So you can't just
02:40:21
Rachel Wilsonsay well I just think murder is wrong. It's like okay but do you have a justified reason for saying murder is wrong? Cuz clearly there's some people in this world who don't think murder is wrong. So like what makes you right?
02:40:31
Rachel WilsonHe's just saying you need some kind of epistemology to stand on to make those kinds of assertions and you're not. You're just saying I just think it's the case. >> Yeah. I think Yeah. I think that even in
02:40:44
Driena Sixtoeven people that subscribe to religions that try to justify uh murder, right, in cases that aren't justifiable for in common civilization. I think they know it's wrong. I think we all inherently
02:40:56
Driena Sixtoknow. I think >> again, that's nice to say, but I think we all have a conscience. That's not how a debate works. You're just saying words. >> If there's people that, you know, believe it's okay to kill others of a
02:41:08
Driena Sixtodifferent religion. Um, I think that they know at their core that that is wrong and they just choose to. >> Well, I think you know at your core that women are not equal with men and that anytime men decide to rescend women's rights, there's not a damn thing they
02:41:21
Rachel Wilsoncan do about it. But you're not going to admit to that either. >> It's It's not going to happen. Um, you won't admit to that. >> Why do you think it's not going to happen? >> Because it's it's just not going to happen. You take it for granted that simps are going to always come to the
02:41:32
Rachel Wilsonrescue, don't you? Have you heard of a little place called Afghanistan? >> Yeah. Uh, >> do you know that they used to have Okay. What about Iran? What about a little place called Iran? >> Uh, yeah. >> Okay. What about Russia? Russia's not
02:41:44
Rachel Wilsoneven Muslim. How about Russia? >> I'm talking about the United States. >> Okay. But what I'm telling you is historically there's multiple places around the world where regardless of of religion or other factors, women had rights and then the men said, "Eh, not
02:41:58
Rachel Wilsonso much anymore." >> Uh that >> why do you think that won't and couldn't happen here? Other than the fact that you've lived a privileged female life that leads you to believe that like this could never happen to me.
02:42:09
Driena Sixto>> I don't think it's a privilege to demand equal voting rights. You can demand it all day, sweetie, but if the patriarchy doesn't grant it, you're out of luck. >> Rights as well. Um, and I don't think
02:42:19
Driena Sixtorights are determined based on force. >> That's all super cute. So, what happens? >> No, it's not super cute. Do you believe rights, inherent human rights are
02:42:30
Rachel Wilsonderived on whether somebody else can take them from you or not? >> I don't I don't agree with that. >> Now, be careful cuz I know you don't know philosophy. That's an is
02:42:41
Rachel Wilsonstatement. It's not an ought claim. I'm not saying rights ought to be taken. >> I'm saying if tomorrow men don't want to enforce women's rights, you and I can't
02:42:52
Driena Sixtodo anything about it. >> I don't know. I I can't say right now that I know for sure that that would be the case just because, you know, we have guns, the great equalizer. I see. So,
02:43:04
Driena Sixtophysical force isn't as much of a determining factor uh between the sexes. And I think at least in Florida where I'm from, um, an equal or close to equal
02:43:16
Driena Sixtoamount of women own guns as men. And it doesn't matter whether you're, you know, 7 feet or 5t as a man. You know, all you need is a small little handgun to be at equal. >> Yeah. I equal levels. >> I'm actually a firearms instructor
02:43:29
Rachel Wilsonmyself and I teach women. >> So you understand that guns are the great equalizer. And what I understand is that >> but as a whole but as a whole so like on an individual level if there's an attacker coming at you your best shot is a gun for sure. >> A pew pew. I don't know if you can say
02:43:43
Driena Sixtothat on YouTube. >> Yeah. And if men wanted to take over and stop letting women vote women you don't think women with guns in this country would do something about >> describe to me how you think that would look.
02:43:55
Rachel Wilson>> It'd be terrible. It'd be bloody. >> You think that the girls are going to So we just took away abortion rights. >> Mhm. What a ant. >> What did the women do? Why what did the women do about it?
02:44:07
Rachel Wilson>> They they went into the street and screamed. Everybody saw the videos of the liberal women screaming at the sky de uh promising they're never going to have sex again, which is like, oh, now you're starting to figure out like you don't have to have an abortion if you
02:44:20
Rachel Wilsonjust don't do the sex. >> I'm very >> We saw them vowing, you know, all kinds of things. I'm going to we're going to do something and they didn't do anything. What? What were you expecting them to do? >> Well, you said they would get guns and
02:44:34
Driena Sixtotake their rights back. I'm wondering why they didn't do that. >> Well, it was never a right and it was never a constitutional right. Whereas abortion written in the US Constitution. >> So, you think if it was in the Constitution, then they would have revolted with guns.
02:44:45
Driena Sixto>> Uh then they would have had probably a more uh objective valuable reason to do that, but it's not right. >> But would they though? Do you really think women are going to collectivize? So, >> no. I don't think most women want to
02:44:59
Driena Sixtokill their kids. >> Why? Why in all of human history have women never overthrown men as a group? >> Good question. Usually usually men have been the ones to to fight the wars to go
02:45:11
Rachel Wilsonto war to choose. >> But why why did women wait until 1920 when the law changed? Why didn't they just rise up as a group and take their
02:45:20
Driena Sixtorights before that? We've never had a civil war that I know of between men and women in any kind of >> civilization in the past before.
02:45:32
Driena Sixto>> Uh because usually communities operate as one. It hasn't been, you know, men versus women. >> You could you could technically say in places like Iran, you have women's
02:45:43
Driena Sixtorights movements that that do, you know, advocate for their rights as >> Yeah. They always have to beg and ask who who do they have to ask to their rights to be granted by.
02:45:55
Driena Sixto>> Okay, I I grant you that position. What I'm saying is that rights moralistically do not come from force, right? >> That's just an assertion. What are you
02:46:07
Driena Sixtobasing that on? >> From the fact that people have inherent human rights. >> According to who? >> Do you believe in natural rights? >> Not about what I believe. According to who? natural natural rights. That's
02:46:19
Rachel Wilson>> whether I believe it or not has nothing to do with anything. If if men with guns don't grant the rights, >> how do you have the right? >> It doesn't mean that because men again, you're conflating two different things. >> Should you're saying should
02:46:33
Driena Sixto>> conflating two different things? >> You're saying I think we should have rights regardless. But I'm saying >> rights don't come from uh physical differences and being more physically
02:46:45
Driena Sixtostrong in any kind of way. Do you agree with that statement that rights >> doesn't matter if I agree? >> Okay, I'm want I'm asking you do you agree that rights do not come from uh
02:46:56
Rachel Wilsonobjective like physical force? >> Let me just grant that I do believe that can you prove that? How can you demonstrate that rights do come from
02:47:07
Rachel Wilsonthey just exist, right? We just they're just granted by what? By what? >> I think they're natural rights. >> They're natural. Okay. And so what happens if tomorrow the men violate your
02:47:19
Rachel Wilsonright to vote and they stop letting you into the polling center and they say you can't vote anymore. You're a woman and we're not going to let you. >> That'd be a bad thing. But >> yeah, but what would you do about it? >> Personally, I mean I I don't know. Go
02:47:32
Rachel Wilsonsomewhere where women do have egalitarian rights. I I don't know. First of all, that's not going to happen. >> What I'm trying to say is it can't be natural. It can't be natural. And here's why. >> Okay. >> The natural state of the world is
02:47:42
Rachel Wilsonpatriarchy. That's the natural truth of how things exist. So any illusion you have that we have these inherent rights granted to us by
02:47:53
Rachel Wilson>> God by nature. Yeah. You can think it's by God. >> I don't think that the Bible doesn't say anything about that. The Bible doesn't say equal rights for everyone. Make sure
02:48:04
Rachel Wilsonthe women have equality. In fact, the Bible says men are supposed to be subject to their husbands and to their priests and they're supposed to be quiet in the church and they're supposed to ask their husband if they have a theological question and and that they
02:48:16
Driena Sixtoshould submit to their husband. That's what God says. >> That's in your personal interpretation. >> Do you believe in like astrological new age God like the universe or something?
02:48:25
Driena Sixto>> No. Uh I think that there's biblical proof and evidence of God valuing man and woman. >> Of course, he values them the same. That doesn't
02:48:37
Rachel Wilson>> God can value men and women the same and still he created a system. You talked about natural >> created legal systems. >> God created the natural world that we live in, right? >> Yes. Not legal systems. >> In that natural world, there is
02:48:50
Rachel Wilsonhierarchy, >> right? >> Sure. >> There's always people who are at the top and then people beneath them. >> In every structure, whether it's a business, a government, society, yeah,
02:49:01
Rachel Wilson>> all structures are hierarchical. There is no such thing as equality. There's always people with more power. There's people who are taller, prettier, smarter, more talented. That's God's creation. Yes.
02:49:13
Rachel Wilson>> Yes. So that's that's hierarchy. That means we're we're not equal >> different. Well, it doesn't even need to be hierarchal. >> We can be equal in value. Like that's what I'm arguing. >> God values women, but that doesn't mean
02:49:25
Rachel Wilsonhe didn't grant men authority over us. He granted men authority over us. That's why they're bigger. That's why they're stronger. I know you don't like that, but >> I didn't. Wait, >> the proof? >> Don't put don't put words in my mouth.
02:49:37
Driena Sixto>> Okay. Well, you don't you disagree with that. Clearly. >> No. I do believe that men are bigger than us, normally physically stronger. >> Uh-huh. >> You think that we're equal with them, though?
02:49:48
Driena Sixto>> We have equal value. Yes. Therefore, we des we have equal representation. We're like going around in a circle with this. >> Equal representation. Okay. Which biblical kingdom granted women equal
02:50:01
Driena Sixtorepresentation under the government? >> I don't know nor care, but I do remember what god are you talking about. You're talking about Satan for all I know. What god? >> I do remember reading but I do remember
02:50:13
Driena Sixtoreading in the Bible that Jesus wasn't >> particularly a fan of politicians period collectors or that's not what you think it is. So you don't know anything about any of that. Don't bring up the Bible if you don't know cuz I'll just waste you
02:50:27
Driena Sixtoon it again. >> Um again, you're there's so many religions that come out of the Bible. >> Okay. What God do you believe in then? >> I do believe in in the God from the Bible. Yes. Um but
02:50:38
Rachel Wilson>> do you believe in the Bible? >> Yes, I believe in the Bible. But I >> show me where in the Bible it says that women have equal political rights with men or that women and husbands and wives are have equal authority in the home.
02:50:51
Driena Sixto>> It doesn't it doesn't say that anywhere. So then why do you believe in that? >> Because I'm basing my argument on God assigning equal value to men and women.
02:51:02
Rachel Wilson>> Yeah. They can have equal value but men can still have authority. >> Do you think in the Bible do you think women and men should have equal authority in the home or in the government?
02:51:12
Driena Sixto>> Where in the Bible does it says does it say or does Jesus particularly prescribe men vote and women don't? >> Uh there's no democracy in the Bible. That's another reason I don't believe in it. >> Okay.
02:51:24
Rachel Wilson>> There is no such thing as it's monarchies. God granted us kings and gave us rulers. >> Okay. So, we should go back to the Bible. >> We should go back to why don't you
02:51:35
Driena Sixtopractice monarchies all over the world. Why don't you practice what we preach? Um, actually, was it Thailand or one of those >> Christian monarchies? If there's a Christian monarchy, that's where that's
02:51:46
Driena Sixtowhere I'm headed. >> Thailand, I I believe has uh some kind of sect or some kind of Isn't Thailand mostly Muslim? Now >> they do have a large. >> So I'm not going to go there because >> but but there are plenty of other places
02:51:59
Driena Sixtowhere you can live under. >> Show me the Christian monarchy go live under >> closer version or actually I think it was the Philippines or Thailand not
02:52:10
Driena Sixto>> and they would you know supposedly uh exterminate like drug users and whatever across uh the country. >> Singapore and the Philippines do that.
02:52:19
Rachel Wilson>> Exactly. So again, there's a lot more countries on the outside that have the system that you currently like. >> Okay, but back to this. Right in the
02:52:30
Rachel WilsonBible in I think it's 1 Timothy 2:12 says that men are supposed to be in authority over women and that women must submit to their husband. Again, I'm not gonna >> So, if you believe you don't believe in
02:52:42
Driena Sixtothe Christian God and you don't believe in the Bible, can you do that and also vote? >> Do you think those two are at odds with each other? >> You could. Do I think you should? Those
02:52:54
Rachel Wilsonare different things. >> How things are versus how things ought to be. I don't think you ought to be voting. No. Okay. >> As a woman, can you right now? Yes. >> Okay. And we're never going to change
02:53:06
Rachel Wilsoneach other's minds. No, but what I'm asking you is how you can you are a contra you are the worst you're the most contradictory woman I've ever debated. You'll talk about individual rights on
02:53:19
Rachel Wilsonone hand and then say I want the government to come in and force equality for women and you'll say I believe in the Christian God in the Bible and then you'll say well not that part. I don't like the first Timothy 2:12 part. Forget that. And I want democracy, not a
02:53:31
Driena Sixtomonarchy. That seems icky. Jesus I think Jesus thought this even though that's not what the Bible says. I'm just going to make it up. only person living living hypocritically or not practicing what
02:53:42
Driena Sixtothey preach here is you because at the very least I say I believe women should vote I vote myself I think that that is >> what have I advocated here that I don't
02:53:52
Driena Sixto>> you quite literally your whole stickick your whole thing is women shouldn't vote but you do so yourself >> voting is one of the things I talk to
02:54:03
Driena Sixtoabout yeah >> voting is the most important thing that came out of the whole feminist movement. >> I don't think so. You might say that, but I wouldn't say that at all. >> Um, and I disagree with pretty much everything else in the feminist
02:54:16
Driena Sixtomovement. >> Okay. Tell me what things I advocate for that I'm not living >> specifically. >> Voting absolutely is one of those, right? >> I don't think women should be in politics.
02:54:29
Driena Sixto>> How about the second one? Uh, financial independence. You have your own. >> I am not financially independent. You have >> not even close. >> You work, right? You have uh you just said you were a gun instructor, so