Brian KICKS OUT Brat?! 2 RAGE QUITS?! Toxic LA E-GIRLS Bankrupt Men (FlNDØM)?! | Dating Talk #195

Date: 2024-09-11

Duration: 8h 33m

Guests

Brian Atlas

KKylie (DT195)>

PPenny (DT195)>

JJiren (DT195)>

EElina (DT195)>

OOxana (DT195)>

LLaura (DT195)>

SSazia (DT195)>

EElora (DT195)>

AAndrew Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_01TTS Reader(audience)

SPEAKER_02Sazia(guest)

SPEAKER_03Elora(guest)

SPEAKER_04Jiren(guest)

SPEAKER_05Kylie/Penny/Gia(guest)

SPEAKER_07Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_10Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_12Oxana(guest)

SPEAKER_13Elina(guest)

SPEAKER_14Laura(guest)

Key Moments

QuoteKylie introduces herself as an 18yo findom creator who has earned ~$200K in 6 months.

QuoteJiren reveals she has been celibate for 4.5 years and is waiting until marriage. She is 24 and has been single for 7 years.

QuoteElina refuses to state her age on-stream, saying only "somewhere between 25 and 35."

OtherGia repeatedly disrupts the show and is asked to leave by Brian and Andrew at ~2:09. She refuses and argues; is threatened with police. Finally exits around 2:35.

OtherSelf-ratings round: Sazia rates herself face 10/body 10; acknowledges men would rate her 5-6. Oxana rates herself face 5 (makeup 6)/body 8. Laura rates body "infinity."

ControversyKylie reveals her ex-boyfriend cheated on her, stole $7,500 cash, and stole her motorcycle. He has her name tattooed on his neck. Panel notes irony: a findom who financially dominates men was herself victimized financially by her ex.

ControversyFindom-to-bankruptcy moral debate: panel argues findom preys on men with psychological vulnerabilities (addiction, submissive tendencies) and can drive clients to bankruptcy or ruin. Kylie defends that clients consent and choose freely.

Topics Discussed

Guest introductions

All guests introduce themselves in order. Order: Kylie (18, AZ, findom/TikTok), Penny (18, AZ, findom), Gia (21, CA, ChatterBait/OF), Jiren (24, SF, Masters/celibate), Elina (model/actress, Moldova/LA, age refused), Andrew Wilson (40, The Crucible host), Oxana (46, Sacramento, matchmaker), Laura (37, FL, matchmaker/former model), Sazia (30, Kazakhstan/LA, QA + podcaster), Elora (36, influencer 400K subs).

Findom explained — how it works, income, clients

Kylie and Penny explain findom (financial domination): men pay women to be humiliated and controlled. Kylie earned ~$200K in 6 months; Penny ~$6-7K in 2 months. Clients range from professionals to lonely men. Panel debates ethics, whether it exploits mental illness, and whether findom women can find committed relationships. Andrew Wilson and Brian press on psychological effects on clients.

Narcissism and emotional abuse debate

Discussion of narcissism in relationships, emotional abuse patterns, and identifying manipulative behavior. Guests share personal experiences. Debate on whether findom attracts or creates dependent personalities.

Gia disruption and removal from show

Gia repeatedly interrupts and derails conversation. Brian asks her to stop; she continues. Brian and Andrew ask Gia to leave at ~2:09. She refuses and argues. Threatened with police call; finally exits around 2:35. Discussion follows about entitlement and inability to self-regulate.

Self-ratings round

Each guest rates their own face and body on a 1-10 scale. Notable ratings: Kylie face 9/body 8, Elina face 9/body 8, Oxana face 5 (makeup 6)/body 8, Laura face 8.5/body infinity, Sazia face 10/body 10 (self-acknowledged overestimate). Jiren declines. Discussion of objectivity vs. self-perception.

Dating marketplace and sexual market value (SMV)

Brian and Andrew discuss sexual market value, how women's and men's value changes with age, and how findom intersects with SMV (exploiting lonely/lower-status men). Matchmakers Oxana and Laura provide professional context on what clients seek.

Kylie TikTok review and ex-boyfriend story

Brian reviews Kylie's TikTok content on-stream, showing findom-related posts. Kylie reveals ex-boyfriend cheated on her, stole $7,500, and stole her motorcycle. Ex has her name tattooed on his neck. Older sister previously appeared on Whatever. Panel reacts to ex's behavior and the irony of a findom being victimized financially.

Findom Twitter/tweets review

Brian and panel review findom-related tweets and social media content from Kylie and others. Includes posts where findom creators mock their clients publicly. Panel reacts to content showing the psychological manipulation involved. Debate on whether public humiliation of paying clients crosses ethical lines.

Findom ethics debate — does it cause harm?

Deep ethical debate: is findom harmful to clients? Does it exploit mental illness (addiction, submissive tendencies)? Kylie and Penny argue clients choose freely. Brian and Andrew argue findom accelerates financial ruin. Matchmakers note they have seen findom victims in their professional work. Discussion of whether findom is different from other sex work.

Matchmaking industry and partner standards

Oxana and Laura discuss the professional matchmaking industry: how clients are vetted, what high-value men and women look for, and common deal-breakers. Laura discusses working with Millionaire Matchmaker / Patty Stanger. Both matchmakers share observations on how dating has changed with apps.

Patriarchy, age gaps, and dating economics

Discussion of traditional gender roles, age gap relationships, and the economics of modern dating. Andrew Wilson provides perspective from The Crucible framework. Matchmakers weigh in on what makes age gap relationships work or fail.

What do you bring to the table

Round-table: each guest articulates their value proposition in a relationship. Findom guests challenged on whether monetizing men is compatible with genuine partnership. Matchmakers discuss what balanced value exchange looks like.

Call to quit findom / closing discussion

Brian and Andrew urge Kylie and Penny to consider leaving findom. Argument: findom will damage ability to form genuine relationships and may attract wrong partner type. Kylie pushes back; Penny more receptive. Show closes with final thoughts from panel.

Transcript

Page 4 of 10

Saziaand I got some pimples in my face because of that stress so from from that moment I decided to believe that I'm beautiful whatever like a like whatever like condition I am in so that's why I'm

Saziarating 10 like I'm not comparing myself with them but you said you had the you got pimples and you gained weight yep uhhuh and I judged myself first for that so now I don't want to judge myself for and

Brian Atlaswere you uh are you less beautiful or more beautiful after or more attractive rather not uh are you less attractive or more attractive with the weight gain and

Brian Atlasthe acne pimples I feel beautiful myself now so I I was count well that's not the question so you could still be beautiful despite these things yep but are you more I'll

Brian Atlasjust I'll just use the words are you more beautiful now that you have pimples and you've gained weight yes than you were before I feel myself beautiful right now

Brian Atlasso I'm not comparing even you're not even comparing yourself to yourself yeah so with without I'm beautiful for myself so wait were you a 10 before the weight gain and the

Saziapimples so when first I gained weight and got this a face issue i j judged myself a lot so after judging I made conclusion recently like maybe two week

Saziaago that I don't want to judge myself because how I look uh or If I gain weight so that's why now I I want to

Brian Atlasfeel myself 10 every day but were you a 10 before the wak in and the acne when when exactly well okay you said you moved here what 3 months ago or

Brian Atlas3 months ago was it yep you started getting acne you gained some weight be but before you moved here where did you move from Kazakhstan no I

Brian Atlasmoved from Chicago oh Chicago Okay so when you were in Chicago uh what what was your I didn't think about it I didn't think about it well what what okay you didn't think about it then but retrospectively looking back what would

Saziayou rate yourself no I was still still judging myself that time okay but so right now yep if you had to rate yourself five months ago

Saziabefore the weight G before the pimples what would you rate yourself um were you attend then no what were you then I was

Brian Atlaslike pH six maybe bu eight phase six body eight so couple questions here back then phase six body

Brian Atlaseight now 1010 so just just so I understand correctly MH you're more attractive now after you've gained weight and you have acne

Saziayes do you want to just curious um do you want to lose weight or gain more weight um I

Sazialike I I'm right now on my nutrition so I'm thinking about losing weight but not because weight I want to feel healthy myself like for health for health I want

Brian Atlasto lose weight but but do you see why I'm a bit confused here because you said well back then when I didn't have acne this bad I didn't weigh this much I was less attractive but now that I've gained

Brian Atlasweight and I have acne I'm now more attractive yes this how I think um let me ask you a question when it comes to what you find

Brian Atlasattractive in men uh do you find men who are physically fit and I'm not saying big uh bodybuilder roided up just physically fit men do you find them more attractive or do you find obese men more

Brian Atlasattractive um it's how he feels how confident he is I don't look let's assume they're of the same confidence they have confidence and they have all the same qualities but one is pH like

Brian Atlaswho's physically fit is more attractive but so when men are physically fit and let's just throw and have clear skin good skin whatever would

Saziathey they're more attractive yeah does this also apply to women or does it not apply to women um I

Saziadon't I look more for confidence so I don't look for looks so m it's hard to answer this question um this is how I counted myself if I look other person I

Saziadon't go and ask how do you rate yourself so I don't if he is confident and or he or she confident and he likes how he looks or she looks I'm okay with

Saziathat I don't go there so I never thought about this so deeply um do you think

Saziathat do you think that gaining weight uh and having bad skin tends to make people more attractive or less attractive it's not about other person I'm talking about

Saziamyself right so I yeah I'm talking in general in general

Saziaum in general I don't know every every person is personal so I don't want to make a conclusion for other person um like this is only how I treat myself and

Brian Atlashow I look for myself so I don't I don't want to answer this question well you answered the question about men you you said you'd prefer the physically fit man to weigh less because

Brian Atlasyou would be you would find them more physically attractive if they were physically fit as opposed to overweight and if they had clear skin as opposed to [Music]

Brian Atlasacne again how the other person feel I don't um I'm I I see what you're trying to okay so you said you don't know how the other person feels so let me ask you a question then do you think men

Brian Atlasgenerally prefer women who are overweight or women who are physically fit I haven't asked I'm not the man what you sorry you haven't what I haven't asked you haven't asked men yeah okay

Brian Atlaswell even if you haven't asked men this what do you think you can't you say to me you a man why I no no no what do you okay so you're you're 30 right you're an

Brian Atlasintelligent woman you uh you said you're an engineer yep you're an intelligent woman um you don't need to for example I don't need to uh necessarily ask like a

Brian Atlasa sample size of people to have a inkling towards what the way something might be so what do you think men prefer

Saziaphysically fit women or overweight women I don't know you you have no idea I have no idea just guess why are you trying what are you trying to do with me

Sazialike what what do you want to hear we're having a conversation that's what I'm trying to do I already said my point of view that's how I treat myself it doesn't appear it doesn't I'm asking you about I'm asking you what you think men

Brian Atlaswant um okay then do you think men prefer women with clear skin or who have severe acne again I don't know you should ask men this question I'm what do you think I I don't I don't think about

Brian Atlasthis question I don't want to think about this question if you were to ask me for example do I think women uh I'm trying to think how I do I think women are attracted to men

Brian Atlaswith confidence this is a question I can answer um do I think women like tall men this is a question I can answer um don't you think it's important to

Brian Atlasknow what men like in order to be able to operate in in life and find a partner or do you not concern your with this I

Brian Atlasthink I should like myself um sure but that doesn't really answer the question that's maybe what should I

Saziafigure out with other men and ask him like um I so you can't so if I were to ask you

Brian Atlasif you just had to guess you can't even ask any men do men prefer uh women with a healthy body fat percentage or obese

Saziawomen you wouldn't even be able to take a crack at answering this question I assume that men will prefer healthy woman whatever healthy for how

Saziashe feels like she feel healthy herself in her body I don't care how she

Brian Atlasfeels I don't I I really don't care how she feels soose do pleas about how feel so I you're just going round like round and

Lauraround a man can only care about how you feel once he's initially attracted to you and started dating you and then gets to know you and starts to care about you men are visual creatures so okay so

Laurasorry continued but I have some full-up questions go ahead no I'm just saying like men are very visual I feel like with women attraction can grow for a man but men

Lauraare generally very visual there has to be initial attraction for them to care that's that's why men go on first dates if they're not attracted doesn't matter how cool you are they're probably not going to get to know you more and not

Laurasee you again most men not not all of men but I that is my opinion I agree okay so so you just can't pretend attraction doesn't play A Part basically is what I'm saying to her like she's

Laurasaying you know this is how I feel that's fine but you know unless a mat is your boyfriend or your partner he doesn't really care how you feel if he's

Lauraa stranger and to get to that place he has to first in be attracted to you do you want to get married me yeah do you want to have kids yes I want do

Brian Atlasdo you currently have any kids no I don't no kids okay and so um do you think that there are things

Brian Atlasthat men need to do better when it comes to uh having a girlfriend or getting

Saziawomen attentive uh he should be attentive open and honest mhm M okay and do you think physical attraction is

Saziaimportant when it comes to dating for both men and women yeah sure I mean whatever he I you know when

Saziaperson is healthy like I more care about mental health so if he's mentally he's mentally healthy uh I can go on date and

Saziaknow him better like stuff like that but I'm not putting uh how he looks uh like

Saziaif he has some body stuff but I'm more attracted how he can listen uh how open he is

Brian Atlasso do you think men care about physical appearance when it comes to uh women um I think so yeah okay

Brian Atlasum uh yeah um I'm just still confused by the whole well okay um one quick thing you

Brian Atlassaid well you can be overweight but still be healthy I mean but isn't this uh just not the

Saziacase

Saziaum um healthy I meant mentally but if the person care about himself and care about his body of course it's plus it

Saziashould like I consider that but right now I I gain weight and right now I feel that I'm working on my confidence and this is what is important right now for

Brian Atlasme so that's why I R it myself 10 okay uh are you willing to date an average man

Saziayes would you date a guy who's not a 10 yes if he is if he is com it's it's I mean I don't I as soon as we can talk

Saziaand have a good conversation and uh we have same vision or stuff more that we can feel each other like we have some chemistry and uh if he's confident and

Saziahe's funny and he doesn't look like perfectly but he's he can entertain me and like make me fun and love laugh of course I will think about him as a like

Saziahusband material uh it's I more about having connection deep Connection in conversations um so sometimes people

Brian Atlaspeople look different so I don't have specific um like 10 10 body like I only talk with final question on this and I'm going to kind of move it on a little bit

Brian Atlasum do you think men prefer humble women or uh cocky

Saziawomen oh I think the boss but are humble humble women yeah if choose to

Saziachoose between them I will choose humble are you humble I am humble you said you were a 10 but it's

Saziame like saying I I I don't want you to think as like it's my humble answer uh let me ask you a question if I said that I think I'm the most beautiful

Brian Atlasman in the world would you agree with me the most physically attractive man would you agree with me okay yeah if you want no no no no is it true cuz I'm looking for the truth okay is it

Saziatrue I'm not you you're not going to hurt my feelings you [Music] can but you're not feeling 10 ready to begin with this yeah I'm not you don't

Brian Atlasfeel 10 so I don't feel 10 from you but if I said I was a 10 that would make me a 10 right there you go you lost the opportunity uh wouldn't it be more

Brian Atlasattractive because all of you said I mean well wouldn't it be more attractive that a guy you know operated within the realm of

Brian Atlasreality he wasn't delusional he saw things for what they truly were were he was humble mhm wouldn't this be more attractive than the guy that I'm

Brian Atlassure all of you at this table know a man you can picture him in your mind's eye you've met him you've talked to him who thinks he's the [ __ ] look these girls know he thinks

Brian Atlashe's the [ __ ] but he's not he thinks he's [ __ ] really goodlook but he's not he thinks he's super [ __ ] cool but he's not these girls know exactly what I'm talking about they humbl that

Brian Atlasguy real quick but so y'all have that experience of a guy like that but I don't know a lot of y'all are

Nick (Production)no offense but uh now I know you're not a natural beauty but I think with the right clothes and the right look you could be very striking that was an Nick who pressed that by the way um don't y'all think

Brian Atlasit's a bit delusional there was like three nines one 10 don't y'all that's y'all are y'all on par with like the most

Saziabeautiful women in the world really yeah I may think I'm beautiful you don't have to think like that so or

Brian Atlaseither of us so it's my personal opinion and that's but so okay I'll I'll you might feel you guys might feel uncomfortable that I'm we're talking about this and you might feel

Brian Atlasunder attack that I'm bringing this up but so one of the really big issues that I see in the dating Marketplace is that that a lot of women conflate sexual

Brian Atlasinterest from men as dating interest and so what ends up happening is you'll get all these likes and DMS and think you have millions of options and the luxury to be picky and maybe you get hit up by

Brian Atlasa guy who's more attractive than you and you think well hold on this guy is this attractive I have sexual access to him

Brian Atlasairgo that is like where I fall in the hierarchy in the dating Marketplace he's an eight I'm an eight he's a 10 I'm a 10 that's not the case though so most of

Brian Atlasthese guys they just want you for sex that's one thing and so the other component here is that if you have a inaccurate self assessment of your own

Brian Atlasphysical attractiveness you're going to be chasing men who are no offense quite frankly out of your league and so what's the what's but here's the difference

Brian Atlasthough if I step to to a girl who's out of my league instant rejection I don't get anything from her I don't get a

Brian Atlasconversation I I don't get a date I don't get sex you as women can get sex and dates and attention from men that are out of your league and they'll

Brian Atlasstring you along they'll keep you around with as a friends with benefits for weeks months who knows and I don't agree with this because me personally my my position is uh I think you shouldn't

Brian Atlassleep with somebody unless you have a uh intention of being in a relationship with them me me personally I have no interest in one night stands or sleeping with a girl once or sleeping with a girl that I don't see a potential for a

Brian Atlaslong-term relationship but a lot of men don't operate like that and there a lot of very attractive men who have the capacity and the capability of sleeping with a lot of women but have no interest

Brian Atlasin committing to them a lot of men will operate this way uh I don't agree with it but it's just the reality and so women find themselves in situationships Never Getting commitment from men and

Brian Atlasthen the other kind of negative component I see here is that because of this or because of a sort of inaccurate assessment of your own physical attractiveness the men who are actually

Brian Atlasin your league who would actually give you commitment who will love you who will take care of you who will give you marriage you think you're settling for them you will s you think you're settling you won't be attracted to them

Brian Atlasyou'll spend your 20s chasing after these hyper attractive men whether it's their status their money their looks personality what have you uh and then finally you'll never you will most

Brian Atlaslikely never get commitment from them then in your late 20s 30s time to okay I guess I got to settle and then you'll settle even though it's not actually settling it's actually a guy who's in your league you'll probably treat him

Brian Atlaswith contempt the relationship will be terrible you won't be attracted to him even though you probably should because he's actually in your league this is also harmed by the fact that women can Elevate their appearance through plastic surgery and makeup

Brian Atlassomething that's not really readily available for men although there are some ways that men can improve their physical appearance so you in addition to that you will rank yourself like filter makeup boom this is what I am you

TTS Readerdon't always rank yourself well this is what I look without makeup and unflattering lighting whatever what have you hail and well met paladins donated

TTS Reader$200 two I'll say it bluntly if we won't you aren't a 10 you aren't nines stop lying it makes you look stupid it makes

Brian Atlasyou sound crazy no one wants a relationship with a woman who lies or a defective mind uh law paladins thank you man appreciate the uh TTS I appreciate the

Brian AtlasTTS just to kind of wrap things up here on this so I think there's a a pretty big differential here too when it it comes to dating so I would argue for most men

Brian Atlasif we can sleep with a girl there's a very high likelihood we can get her in a relationship if I sleep with a girl I'm fairly confident I can get her in a

Brian Atlasrelationship I can't say the same when it comes to women yeah it's not always the case that like how confident are you

Laurathat just because you can sleep with a guy you can get him in a relationship yeah you're talking about box Theory which I completely agree with uh when

Laurayou first meet a man usually they put you in one of three boxes like wifey material which we all want to be in that box but that's very rare date material like I'll dat her or I'm just going to

Laurahook up with her and so women have a hard time differentiating that and then yes they waste years in situationships I completely agree with the first part of what you said

Lauraabsolutely oh thank you thank you um it it's up to women to discern what box you're in with that particular man mhm so that's really all we can do I mean

Laurahonestly at the end of the day and women don't like it but we don't I mean okay generally men hold the power to be with us exactly what Brian is saying like

Laurayou're right women kind of can have sex with who they want um men get married when they want so you got to know where

Laurayou fit in that box and if you if you if your goal is to be married and have kids like it was my goal and I'm at that goal then you got to not waste your time with the wrong guys who are going to waste

Laurayour time in the wrong box for years and years and years so you don't get to you know late 30s early 40s calling me crying I want to have a kid I want to have a baby find me a guy that is

Lauraliterally the worst place to be in and there's so many women in that place and it's honestly really really sad that was well put that was well that

Brian Atlaswas well put thank you but I mean look not all women do this of course but I do think it's a recipe for disaster if

Brian Atlaswe're gassing up women to have a uh to have a unrealistic self assessment of where they stand in the dating Marketplace for example let's say you're

Brian Atlastrying to sell your house and you think well my house is worth $2 million well the market dictates what your house is worth so

Brian Atlasuh if it if you're trying to sell your house for 2 million but it's worth 1 million it's going to sit on the market

Lauraand uh nobody's going to buy it yeah so absolutely I I deal with like sorry

Lauralike delusional women all day all day in my DMs like I probably got 50 DMS a day of women you know I joined your database can you please set me up you know what

Lauracan I do I'm like there's no guarantee of being contacted like please please stop you know so absolutely I don't know just seems like

Brian Atlasuh maybe we can go through it like really quick yeah um well for you uh are you looking for uh how tall did you want your guy to

Brian Atlasbe taller than me okay so how tall are you 52 5'2 okay so 53 and up is fine yeah okay uh do know how much money you want him to

Brian Atlasmake more than me how much do you make 120 120 okay so 120k make more than you

Brian Atlasuh any other characteristics that are you need in the man funny funny really if if so if a guy's not funny it's a

Saziadeal breaker yeah if it's don't have fun like I think relationship is like I I feel myself good right so other person should be happy with himself too and we

Saziacan together create something even more so I I consider myself funny so I want

Saziato um interesting funny like open and um when you say you think you're you're funny do you mean you have a sense of

Brian Atlashumor or you're funny no sense of humor well so sense of humor is I think the capacity to detect humor so

Brian Atlasthey're they're kind of different like sense of humor would be like I recognize something that's funny but you might not be able to tell a joke or make somebody laugh for

Saziathe it's impossible other person should love to like it should be both way funny all right tell me a joke uh I canot when you ask like

Brian Atlasthat I'm not comedian so I just want other person me feel um but you do you do consider yourself to be funny yes and

Brian Atlasit's a deal breaker for the guys not funny yes it's important for me why do you all want us to be why do you all want men to be your entertainment like why is that so

Brian Atlasimportant like no I get that women want it and men who can make you laugh tend to out compete those that don't but why why is that import like why I like I

Lauratrue it's so annoying like honestly it's so annoying cuz I will set a woman up with a great guy like honestly I really stand behind my clients I think they're great great on paper right they're great on paper no I get to know them and I don't take someone on unless I feel

Laurathey're a good person I mean I have to sleep at night right but I'm saying they're they're great on paper but they're not funny for example like yeah it's not even a funny thing the woman will be like well I just didn't feel chemistry on the dates I'm like you

Lauracan't give him a second date like you you can't bring yourself to like go to noou for a second date like please like give him a second chance you know like this guy really likes you he's marriage-minded there's not very many men these days that even want a serious

Laurarelationship I mean we're we're in a crisis of that and you can't bring yourself to give this 61 extremely wealthy guy who likes you and is handsome another chance he has to just be hilarious and entertaining on the

Laurafirst date like I agree with you it's it's completely ridiculous and a lot of women they pass up all these guys over and over again and then they're like there's no good guys out there like there is you're just you're saying not of them and then also I mean also

Lauracouldn't it be the case with some of these men that you know maybe they're nervous on the date right Absolut nerv they're yeah it's it's a lot of pressure a first date I mean honestly I I talk about this on my Instagram I almost

Lauraruined my own life and didn't go on a second date with my husband I swear I almost did and then I was like what am I what am I doing like I absolutely need to give this another chance um and it's

Laurait's what you're saying like it was actually a great first date but like I I think I was used to like as most women are used to like the butterflies in the chemistry but that's actually toxic that's actually your nervous system

Laurasaying this guy isn't really good for you and so I was like you know I'm going to give it a second chance and he even said he goes I was nervous on our first date you know I I was and it's just too much pressure women put on a first date they want like an Entertainer and the

Lauraguy that's entertaining that's super funny that's the wrong guy that's a player that's that's that's generally that's the wrong guy to to be with

Brian Atlash okay that was pretty based pretty pretty based um do you encounter this a lot with your you're you're a professional matcher I

Brian Atlasmean do you encounter this a lot with the women that you know you set them up with these men who are just great great on paper but they're like ah I didn't he was he was great you know great great nice guy paid for the date all that

Laurastuff it went well but I didn't really feel the C chemistry yeah they're like I just I didn't feel chemistry and I don't know and yeah but thanks for setting me up and I'm

Lauralike okay I mean I I would urge you to give the guy another chance like I would at least go on three dates and see how you feel after that and then talk to me and they're like no and I mean at that

Laurapoint I I can't help you when you call me in 5 years and you're 43 and single and want a kid I I I can't help you I hang the phone up like you did this to yourself in my opinion B that's so B uh we'll get into some more

Kylie/Penny/Giapre-show notes I want to read a couple of the chats here uh Ana I'm going to have you read these okay if you remove all of the Preamble woman prattle before the guests answer you could cover the same ground in 90

Brian Atlasminutes just answer the question anyone who thinks Brian is impatient is nut am I patient sometimes but other time I don't know uh Giani thank you for the message

Kylie/Penny/Giaman really appreciate it it and then we have women have hard time thank you I know what box you are in Andrew looks like a shark while Brian drops

Lauraknowledge wait what I know what box you were in Andrew looks like a shark while Brian drops knowledge okay uh women have a hard time appreciate it I think he's talking about box theory that I was

Laurasaying but I know what box I'm in I'm I'm a wife and I'm married to a 67 amazing guy who yeah he's really tall he's really handsome

Lauraum he's a provider I I love him D1 babies right what D1 babies what are D1 babies D1 athlete yeah no I basically birthed a basketball team like it's all fun in games dating the 67 guy until

Laurayou're like pregnant with twins twice about to literally die and can't even walk so it's just it's all fun in games but you have two sets of twins I have two sets of natural twins yeah fraternal twins and they're all they're both

Laurathey're all boys they're all boys a year and a half apart yeah so just need one more of the starting line there you go there you go um good yeah you never know I don't yeah they could be whatever they

Brian Atlaswant but yeah uh okay and then uh let's see we had um oh really quick so the Box theory is like there's the wife material and hookup material basic essentially yeah

Lauralike wife material girl like there I think there's a girlfriend box where the guy's like let me like be like let me kind of like waste her yeah for now girl not the dream girl and I don't even think like the marriage box not

Lauranecessarily marriage cuz I've watched the show before and I'm with you Brian like I don't necessarily think people need to get married um people can be together in a serious relationship and have a partnership but basically like a girlfriend box of just kind of wasting a

Brian Atlasgirl's time and he's not serious about her so it's not really about the marriage and then hook up got it okay all right and then we have two super chats uh we have Richard

Brian AtlasHunt I'm run Brian Andrew fan good job y'all hey dude thank you for the big $200 Super Chat really appreciate it thank you Richard and then he also said question for the panel uh would you date

Brian Atlasa 5 foot 10in bluecollar guy making 90 plus 90k plus a year or a guy 6 foot uh

Brian Atlas6'4 guy making 60k a year okay so 5' 10 making 90k a year or 6'4 making 60k a year go ahead

Kylie/Penny/GiaKylie I hate this question but I would say the 6'4 guy making 60k a year because he could always make more money

Kylie/Penny/Giabut can't really just like grow taller mhm yeah I agree too there's not much wait Kylie do you

Jirenhave like a clip in your hand or no it's okay I'm just you can just maybe stop uh what about you I'll date my boyfriend all right okay I think for me it's

Elinaeither or it just depends for me I mean I'm well well hold on hold on you got to pick um 5 put 10 I guess mhm I'm already

Elinadating a 62 guy that makes more than 90k a year you'd pick that one yeah all

Oxanaright well I am married but if you if you're single you know hypothetical I I don't put the put the value on People based on their Heights or amount of

Lauramoney that they make I always uh look at the potential of the person yeah I mean I guess you have to choose but when I was dating I did not discriminate about these things like

Laurajust go on the date you know I did end up with someone tall um I'm 510 and that just like I just happened to but I wasn't that wasn't a deal breaker for me

LauraI wasn't like the guy has to be super tall so I mean honestly 90k 60k it's it's not a massive difference and I don't really think you should Factor money into dating I know a lot of women

Laurado but you should focus more on connection and who the man is a person and can you grow with him and if you're so concerned about money focus on his

Saziaearning potential because money comes and money goes it's the reality MH what about you yeah also more about Connections so but if I should choose

Saziaone I don't want to choose any sorry just just pick just pick so okay they both hide than me I guess 64 will

Elorabe too high 510 okay uh I think I think I need to talk with them and then decide

Elorabut if not uh I will pick 6'4 because you can always grow together definitely all right Richard thank you for the super chats man appreciate it I want to

Brian Atlascome back to this really quick this is related uh going around the table do you think you will be better looking in 10 years time starting with

Brian Atlasyou go ahead yes all right what B uh better better looking in 20 years time so you're 18 better looking at 28 yes yes better looking at

Brian Atlas38 no okay all right what about you yes uh you're 18 so better looking at 28

Kylie/Penny/Giabetter looking at 38 maybe

Kylie/Penny/GiaI your M yeah yeah better looking at 48 no okay what about you

Elinano not better looking in 10 years okay uh you're 55 yes yep uh she's already looks so good you guys oh my God I

Brian Atlaslooked I look better now than when I was 20 you look better now than when you were 20 yep and then do you think you'll be better looking in 10 years time whatever age you are yeah you mysterious

Elinaperson you yes and will you be better looking in 20 years time um

Elinaby then yes because there are so many things that gonna come up for sure I'll be an

Brian Atlasalien what about you better looking in yes 10 years time yes 20 years time yes 30 years time yes

Oxana46 so 56 76 uh 66 I'm I'm going to die really wise and of course fulfilled and

Brian Atlasyes but it's about looks but uh are you uh are you better now excuse me better looking now at 46 than you were

Oxanaat 18 yes better looking now than at 28 yes better looking now at 46 than at 36 yes because my core got stronger and I got to but it's about looks well I don't

Brian Atlasvalue so if I I don't even dispute as you get older you can become more attractive personality wise or who you are as understanding yeah but attractive

Oxanaon that realm but on the Physical Realm which is what we're talking about so physically gorgeous about ugly on the inside how would you rate that person wait so physically G gorgeous I would

Brian Atlassay that she's physically gorgeous but she's a terrible person okay but how overall would you rate that person overall in totality you you have yeah you have to give her a score I you

Brian Atlasknow what I'll I'll even Grant to you that a woman who H who's average aage looking uh or even below average looking but who has a remarkable personality is

Brian Atlasin totality more attractive than a beautiful woman who's awful there you go that's my answer sure I'll even yes but in totality but when when we're

Brian Atlasnarrowing down when when we're getting into H spec specificity is that a word specifics specifics yeah specificity is a word yes thank you Andrew appreciate

Oxanauh that's what I'm talking about so I'm talking about beauty is com physical Beauty physical yes and physical Beauty projects through the beauty on the inside of the person

Brian Atlasokay I'll even Grant I'll even grant that for example uh a man or woman who is who is smiling and has a positive disposition it will manifest itself in

Brian Atlastheir uh in appraisals of their physical attractiveness I'll even grant that but it's not enough to like tip the

Oxanascales really so the question is how I would feel correct how I would feel not the other people would feel but how I would feel

Oxanaabout myself correct not how you would feel how you I hope you would think with reason and logic yeah and I I'm thinking that the person that I would be beautiful when I'm 60 and 70 and has

Brian Atlasnothing to do with the physical looks can I ask you a question sure so we put you in a room with uh

Brian Atlasyour you said better looking in 10 years oh okay we won't even use that you're 46 we're going to put you in a room with your 26-year-old self right we'll put

Brian Atlasyou in a room with a 26y old you're clone when you were 26 in a room and there's men in there there's a hundred men in there different background

Brian Atlasdifferent age um sure so all different ages which one of the two women is going to be able to

Oxanaout compete the other when it comes to getting romantic interest from the men in the room so the question is how I evaluate myself you the question I need you to answer the question I need you to

Oxanaanswer the question okay how others would evaluate me definitely they would choose somebody who is younger and definitely how others because because

Brian Atlasbecause younger Body Young no but but because she's what hot more physically attractive

Oxanaoh you see my value system does not go with the looks my value system goes with the combination who the person is on the inside as well I don't value so were you a piece of [ __ ] when you were 26 I did

Oxananot have the knowledge that I is that what men care about I care about it no do you think men care about that do men care about it about well you said your knowledge I'm talking about about uh

Oxanaabout about who I am as a person on the inside about my core so you're saying you were just a terrible person at 26 I was going through very big transitions in my life big transitions

Oxanano you used to be a man no I went through a very heavy trauma big big big big traumas that's how I able to understand people I went through like so many things well that's that's fair but

Brian Atlasum was was your trauma so severe that it was like visible like if you were just walking to the grocery store when you were was it like palpable was it visible to like someone who just walked by you like

Brian Atlaswere you crying your way to the grocery store uh there were M moments like this as well yes absolutely okay so but I assume you weren't crying 24/7 not 247 so assuming these hundred

Brian Atlasmen in this room didn't actually have 5 minutes to interact with either of you and they were making appraisals on your physical appearance which of the two without comp the guys would choose younger and heart physically wise but

Oxanathis is not how I feel like about myself that's where my question is this how others would judge me or how I judge myself all right okay can we go around the table I'll just move it on um going

Lauraaround the table better looking in 10 years time can I ask her one question first goe I'm just like lost because we work in matchmaking so if I mean maybe I

LauraI don't know our industry is pretty small we generally do things the same usually you present a profile of a woman with photos and a bio and if the man is not attracted he's going to pass I don't

Lauracare if I say to him oh but she's a great person she's done a lot of growth he doesn't care he's like cool I'm not attracted so like you you can say all this but like to put it in the Shell to

Oxanato make the shell that's easy that's like what our makeup hair right clothes like Nick posted this statement there that's easy how can you transform the

Oxanapersonality you can't in one hour so when you presented a woman to one of your clients and he says I'm not attracted when you when you say she's a great person does he has he ever changed his mind I can make any woman look

Laurabeautiful on the outside in a matter of hour that is yeah but you didn't answer me has he ever changed his mind when you said she but she's a great person and she's done a lot of growth I do not present my females based on just

Laurapersonality it has to be a combination so I was talking about if a guy passes on photos do you try to convince him and say like if he and and you say she has a great personality has he ever changed

Oxanahis mind is a huge IDE that is a bonus because as you know I mean there is he ever changed his mind about what whether going on the date or not if she was actually great as a person if if he

Oxanawasn't attracted he said I'm not attracted and you're like well she she's grown a lot she's a great personality a client ever changed his mind you cannot

Oxanauh change men's mind men cannot visualize men need to them making decision on what what is in front of them so but if I put the makeup on that girl put the right clothes and that it

Andrew Wilsonwill will be completely he's still not he's still not changing his mind hang make the girl hotter you mean make the girl hotter then you can change the M if you put the makeup on the girl if you

Oxanaput uh if you style her hair if you put the right clothes on her she definitely will get couple of points definitely no I get it but but think about what your argument is here right your argument is literally argument you're saying so if

Oxanayou make the girl hotter she's going to be more appealing right that's that's the but man yes they need to they're making Choice based on what is in front of them man cannot visualize what she

Andrew Wilsoncan be if you put the makeup on her and style her they just don't give a [ __ ] right they don't care they said no they said what is the potential they're looking for they're looking for the potential of good mother

Andrew Wilsonright good Homemaker things like that here's the things they don't here's the things they don't usually care about your trajectory they don't usually about your hobbies they usually don't give a [ __ ] about any of that right they don't

Andrew Wilsoncare about any of that they care about uh kind of some feminine qualities and then how hot you are it's not it I mean it's not rocket science really for men they care about base the core the core

Oxanathat's what I'm talking about if the woman has a core you yes core on the inside should going to be but you just said initially he's going to pass if he's not initially attracted so the

Lauraargument does to make someone attractive that's easy it's not easy if the guy P look men have types okay I have clients they have all different types all right I have two clients right now their type

Laurais tall beautiful curvy blonde that's what they're attracted to they're like don't present me anyone else that doesn't look like this and then I'd love to know about her then I have another guy he's into very slender size to

Laurabrunette exotic looking women and what is your strategy you are using for those type of guys as a Matchmaker I'm going to present them the women that look like that and then based on their personalities like who would be the best match but ultimately we can't change a

Lauraman's type and actually I encourage you to be with a man whose type you are it is the best case scenario for you so you gave a man just physical look just physical look what he's looking for I

Oxanahave I gave him a profile to read and about her tell about her I know have clients who are plastic surgeons and those are the most freaking difficult ones that they have to have a certain uh symmetrical face

LauraSYM you know what I'm talking about so you can't be like I feel this way and I'm going to be more attractive in 20 years like that's not soci when we're talking about the type of relationship that I create as a Matchmaker I create

Laurafulfilling and loving relationship I look at their end result I understand you want to create that but I think you're lying to yourself about the initial stages of our process which is a man has to be initially attracted to

Lauragive a absolutely but I'm saying it's easy to do that one is easy not easy to create to make you're saying you can change her I can put makeup on her no

Oxanathat's easy but personality you cannot change that so I'm looking at the core of the person because I know the physical look I can entice very easily very easily even if he passes and says

Laurano initially I'm not attracted to this woman you think you can present him the same woman a month later with makeup and clothes absolutely I've done it try it no try it I'm not going to try it it

Oxanaworks I'm I'm good I'm not going to try and man they would not even they could not even imagine that this is the same person this is the girl you said think about if you if if she presented you a

Oxanawoman and you passed you're just like no I'm just not initially attracted I'm sure she's a great person but I'm not initially attracted and then I put created different pictures I put the makeup on her I put the right clothes on

Oxanaher he hates makeup he's saying no I style her hair uh and so on and I show him the same woman different photos he will not even know it is the same girl

Oxanabut I am but I am always honest with my clients I say okay but this girl you actually initially passed pass on this one you said no to well how substantial

Brian AtlasI mean look a woman could uh in terms of her presentation when it came to like how she uh her look whatever she could change it and then the appraisal could change but I mean not about to be

Brian Atlascharitable but then generally speaking yes I would agree here that uh I mean the initial appraisal is probably going to be consistent with any secondary appraisals the core of the person that's what matters to change the outside

Oxanathat's easy but if I uh that's what I ask you the question like she is gorgeous on the outside and ugly on the inside men do care about your core we care but only

Oxanawhen they're initially attracted and they get to know you but what I'm saying that initial attraction to entice it in um enhance it in a woman is easy same

Laurawith men by the way you can enhance it but you can't change a man's type so in my opinion if my client passes I'm going to respect that that's not his type show someone else I'm not saying about changing the type all right uh

Brian Atlaswell anyways uh maybe we can come back to it later I'm happy to answer uh so uh better looking in 10 years did we leave off yeah we up with me uh no I'd love to

Laurabe but no and that's why ladies have to marry an older husband with an age Gap there you go yeah cuz then you're always the young hot one to him how's your husband he's only eight years older than

Laurame but no it's it's not it's not crazy but I do think you need like you need some sort of a gap like you'd be surprised women say no to me all the time they won't even date someone 10 years older than them they're like I don't like that like if if they're 40

Laurathey won't go out with a 50-year-old and I'm like you've got to be kidding so I you need a gap like I'm not for women even dating younger men like you can do you can have fun you can you can you

Lauraknow be that that girl but ultimately I mean I don't think it's good for your self-esteem like I know in my relationship I'm always like the young hot pretty one and that's how I feel and I think you should marry older okay so

Laurait's a form of manipulation it's not a form of manipulation it's just I think it's a good Dynamic to be with someone older because Society you know at at I'm 37 at 47 no I'm not going to feel as good as I do now it's just a reality

Laurawell that's not really what you said you didn't say anything about how you feel you said that according to your H said my relationship makes me feel pretty and the younger one because I am factually

Andrew Wilsonyounger by 8 years my husband right so so it's a form of manipulation right no word word word I know no how is that a form of manipulation anything wrong listen I'm not saying there's anything

Laurawrong with it look I this is a patriarchal society women I'll explain give me a second I can explain said dating economics women go down as they age like unfortunately that is just a

Laurafact of life in this patriarchal society and men go up okay so men even get better looking with age so I think if you want to go against if you want to have the best odds in your favor of your

Laurarelationship lasting you should have an older partner yeah right that's not manipulation so so here's the thing though yeah it is and I'll explain why yeah it is so yeah I was just you

Andrew Wilsonremember the part where I said I'll explain why and then he cut me off go ahead are you sure is that okay so anyway way um here's here's why the the reason is is because uh you're you're basically doing an exchange right you're

Andrew Wilsonsaying okay if a 20-year-old girl goes after a man let's say he's 30 35 something like that there's 15E age Gap there um she is going after him for resources he's going after her for

Andrew Wilsonbeauty right that's essentially happens every day I mean sure yeah so the the the counterargument against the age Gap is that men like this are predatory because they going after a you know dumb

LauraYoung women who are just too stupid to make their choices because they're freshly 18 whatever the [ __ ] that I never said a large age Gap I never said my husband 60 or date someone much older I said an age Gap mine's 8 years so

Laurayou're changing it into like predatory 15E gaps that's not what I why would that be a problem though if there was a 15-year Gap I have a 16 year 15y old difference with my husband okay I I'm just saying that's not what I was

Andrew Wilsontalking about though so I was yeah I mean an age gap's an age Gap you want to right like 8 years 10 years 15 who cares I feel like 20 years is different than 8

Andrew Wilson10 I mean it's just different it's just yeah I know it's different but like what's what's our distinction here like aren we aren't we going for the same thing basically woman get resources men get young hot chick right that's what

Laurawe're going after well men would you agree that like men are generally after younger women and for a reason because younger women are more attractive in this Society doesn't make it fair it's just true because of the society it's

Andrew Wilsonbecause of fertility it's all societies it's women are ferle why if you believe that evolution is true then why wouldn't they go for fertile women infertile women are not going to be old women they're going to be young women that's so of course

Andrew Wilsonthey're going to be attracted to that right that I'm not I'm not disputing any of that what I'm saying though is that the argument against the age Gap is that these older men are predatory I was giving you an opportunity to say no

Andrew Wilsonthey're not predatory I don't believe yeah what's going on is that is that younger women know exactly what they're doing going after them because they have a much more stability and resources

Andrew Wilsonright they're not just young dumb stupid women who don't know nothing and the evil predatory man is going after this absolutely want yeah yeah yeah so see if you would have given me a chance to

Andrew Wilsonexplain before you jump to your emotional conclusions like you always do I was giving you a great layup and you just you [ __ ] it up you know great lay we agree that's great we came to an agreement finally in the

Andrew Wilsonshow would have come to nothing but agreements but you know you got to let me talk right at least get the position out there the floor is yours

Oxanaso anyway so you know we were answering question though right so the question be more attractive in 10 years yes yeah I

Laurawant to continue I she no I said I said no not in no way I wish but no I don't want to be 47 it's super scary I was saying to her the other day I was like

LauraI'm so scared like Bish I don't want to age like this is just not like I mean yeah no it's bad especially when you become a mom it's extremely fulfilling it's it's lovely but you change your

Laurawhole identity your entire looks and identity change and I mean my iPhone just likes to haunt me it's just like it just like my iPhone trolls me it's like this was you 5 years ago I'm like [ __ ] don't show me that I was so beautiful I

Saziadon't want to see that right now like anyway so with age no you're never going to look the same do you want to answer 10 years uh yeah

SaziaI'll rate myself 10 yeah what in 10 years yes in 20 years 10 30 10 40 10 100 interesting are you going to try to do

EloraBrian again no all right do you want to go um I don't think I will look uh look for 10

Elorauh I will be 46 um I want to be realistic hopefully I will be feel better like or 10 and physically and

Eloraemotionally but I don't think so 56 same

Elora66 I think uh I'll be just feel myself more confident 66 like 56 whatever but I I don't think you think you're more

Eloraattractive when you were 26 when you were 26 then now um no 26 I was uh uh I think

Eloraum I was like a girl who don't know what they what she wanted and you know like now I think um I feel myself like really

Oxanagreat with teristic um yeah the person who has a base inside they will feel comfortable no matter

Oxanawhich you talking about and all people who don't have the Bas they will scared of the looks and changes uh so did we

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