Brian KICKS OUT Brat?! 2 RAGE QUITS?! Toxic LA E-GIRLS Bankrupt Men (FlNDØM)?! | Dating Talk #195

Date: 2024-09-11

Duration: 8h 33m

Guests

Brian Atlas

KKylie (DT195)>

PPenny (DT195)>

JJiren (DT195)>

EElina (DT195)>

OOxana (DT195)>

LLaura (DT195)>

SSazia (DT195)>

EElora (DT195)>

AAndrew Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_01TTS Reader(audience)

SPEAKER_02Sazia(guest)

SPEAKER_03Elora(guest)

SPEAKER_04Jiren(guest)

SPEAKER_05Kylie/Penny/Gia(guest)

SPEAKER_07Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_10Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_12Oxana(guest)

SPEAKER_13Elina(guest)

SPEAKER_14Laura(guest)

Key Moments

QuoteKylie introduces herself as an 18yo findom creator who has earned ~$200K in 6 months.

QuoteJiren reveals she has been celibate for 4.5 years and is waiting until marriage. She is 24 and has been single for 7 years.

QuoteElina refuses to state her age on-stream, saying only "somewhere between 25 and 35."

OtherGia repeatedly disrupts the show and is asked to leave by Brian and Andrew at ~2:09. She refuses and argues; is threatened with police. Finally exits around 2:35.

OtherSelf-ratings round: Sazia rates herself face 10/body 10; acknowledges men would rate her 5-6. Oxana rates herself face 5 (makeup 6)/body 8. Laura rates body "infinity."

ControversyKylie reveals her ex-boyfriend cheated on her, stole $7,500 cash, and stole her motorcycle. He has her name tattooed on his neck. Panel notes irony: a findom who financially dominates men was herself victimized financially by her ex.

ControversyFindom-to-bankruptcy moral debate: panel argues findom preys on men with psychological vulnerabilities (addiction, submissive tendencies) and can drive clients to bankruptcy or ruin. Kylie defends that clients consent and choose freely.

Topics Discussed

Guest introductions

All guests introduce themselves in order. Order: Kylie (18, AZ, findom/TikTok), Penny (18, AZ, findom), Gia (21, CA, ChatterBait/OF), Jiren (24, SF, Masters/celibate), Elina (model/actress, Moldova/LA, age refused), Andrew Wilson (40, The Crucible host), Oxana (46, Sacramento, matchmaker), Laura (37, FL, matchmaker/former model), Sazia (30, Kazakhstan/LA, QA + podcaster), Elora (36, influencer 400K subs).

Findom explained — how it works, income, clients

Kylie and Penny explain findom (financial domination): men pay women to be humiliated and controlled. Kylie earned ~$200K in 6 months; Penny ~$6-7K in 2 months. Clients range from professionals to lonely men. Panel debates ethics, whether it exploits mental illness, and whether findom women can find committed relationships. Andrew Wilson and Brian press on psychological effects on clients.

Narcissism and emotional abuse debate

Discussion of narcissism in relationships, emotional abuse patterns, and identifying manipulative behavior. Guests share personal experiences. Debate on whether findom attracts or creates dependent personalities.

Gia disruption and removal from show

Gia repeatedly interrupts and derails conversation. Brian asks her to stop; she continues. Brian and Andrew ask Gia to leave at ~2:09. She refuses and argues. Threatened with police call; finally exits around 2:35. Discussion follows about entitlement and inability to self-regulate.

Self-ratings round

Each guest rates their own face and body on a 1-10 scale. Notable ratings: Kylie face 9/body 8, Elina face 9/body 8, Oxana face 5 (makeup 6)/body 8, Laura face 8.5/body infinity, Sazia face 10/body 10 (self-acknowledged overestimate). Jiren declines. Discussion of objectivity vs. self-perception.

Dating marketplace and sexual market value (SMV)

Brian and Andrew discuss sexual market value, how women's and men's value changes with age, and how findom intersects with SMV (exploiting lonely/lower-status men). Matchmakers Oxana and Laura provide professional context on what clients seek.

Kylie TikTok review and ex-boyfriend story

Brian reviews Kylie's TikTok content on-stream, showing findom-related posts. Kylie reveals ex-boyfriend cheated on her, stole $7,500, and stole her motorcycle. Ex has her name tattooed on his neck. Older sister previously appeared on Whatever. Panel reacts to ex's behavior and the irony of a findom being victimized financially.

Findom Twitter/tweets review

Brian and panel review findom-related tweets and social media content from Kylie and others. Includes posts where findom creators mock their clients publicly. Panel reacts to content showing the psychological manipulation involved. Debate on whether public humiliation of paying clients crosses ethical lines.

Findom ethics debate — does it cause harm?

Deep ethical debate: is findom harmful to clients? Does it exploit mental illness (addiction, submissive tendencies)? Kylie and Penny argue clients choose freely. Brian and Andrew argue findom accelerates financial ruin. Matchmakers note they have seen findom victims in their professional work. Discussion of whether findom is different from other sex work.

Matchmaking industry and partner standards

Oxana and Laura discuss the professional matchmaking industry: how clients are vetted, what high-value men and women look for, and common deal-breakers. Laura discusses working with Millionaire Matchmaker / Patty Stanger. Both matchmakers share observations on how dating has changed with apps.

Patriarchy, age gaps, and dating economics

Discussion of traditional gender roles, age gap relationships, and the economics of modern dating. Andrew Wilson provides perspective from The Crucible framework. Matchmakers weigh in on what makes age gap relationships work or fail.

What do you bring to the table

Round-table: each guest articulates their value proposition in a relationship. Findom guests challenged on whether monetizing men is compatible with genuine partnership. Matchmakers discuss what balanced value exchange looks like.

Call to quit findom / closing discussion

Brian and Andrew urge Kylie and Penny to consider leaving findom. Argument: findom will damage ability to form genuine relationships and may attract wrong partner type. Kylie pushes back; Penny more receptive. Show closes with final thoughts from panel.

Transcript

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Kylie/Penny/Giauh sing a like a song that you know I H need a guitar person something to play guitar I don't just sing I get paid to sing like I don't sing for

Elinafree what I feel like everyone's confused What's Happening Here Yeah is it like you don't it's

Kylie/Penny/Giapunked you you sing yeah that's in a bathing suit on explicit bathing I over 20 have over 23k subscribers on chatter Bay and I just blew up overnight so

Brian Atlasthat's why like I yeah all right um okay you don't have to sing that's fine

Brian Atlasum so going back to the findum stuff um what about you you've just been you said you've had like 20 findum dudes or something yeah uh what's the most you've

Brian Atlasbeen paid um about 500 at once at once and what's the most total from one guy um a couple thousand in total

Brian AtlasI should probably take that pen top back I don't know why that wasn't collected do you want me to slide it over to that works okay um here

Brian Atlascan uh how much total um about a couple thousand okay and how much total have you made in total from all the

Kylie/Penny/Giaguys probably like six or 7K okay all right getting started yeah all right let's see um

Brian Atlasum and then uh let's do a bit of a role play here so I'm the uh the um s or

Kylie/Penny/Giawhatever um hello Heavenly blessed Beauty [ __ ] you [ __ ] send me money for coffee oh my God decaf

Kylie/Penny/Giaor what kind of coffee do you want a cappuccino cappuccino quicker yes my dear personally I would not let that slide hurry the [ __ ] up I don't hear the

Brian Atlasding C I don't hear the ding on my phone asking her to do the role I'm curious how this goes what's that I don't hear the ding on my phone quicker damn this feels like gross even to role playay

Andrew Wilsonyeah I know it's unbelievable love it this is like what the ninth circle of hell is would be would be this would be a woman talking to you like that and you

Brian Atlasactually doing it that would be that would just be the ni to do it is the thing wanting to do it dang do you ever uh you got you ever uh have like a rough

Brian Atlasday like you ever go to sleep and you're like [ __ ] I'm [ __ ] up from doing this [ __ ] no I think it's funny I genuinely laugh what about you Kylie I love it you love

Brian Atlasit I mean I know like I know you get paid like for example with with this podcast uh I fake plus trees 21 donated

TTS Reader$199.99 Andrew it's deadly serious we need you focusing on more important things than the love lives of the kids who Dr in the shallow end of the Jean

TTS ReaderPool to it Charlie November means everything oh my God yeah I don't think um I think I might be a little too base

Andrew Wilsonfor old TP USA I think that they maybe maybe wouldn't like too many of my takes and maybe maybe Charlie wouldn't like them too too much just saying he's kind of a kind of a bit of a feminist a

Brian Atlaslittle bit just just saying also I'm we are we are doing we are

Brian Atlasdoing very important work here at the whatever podcast we are investigating whatever it is the [ __ ]

Brian Atlasyou guys are doing we are investigating that we we are this is the culture War so uh

Andrew Wilsonyeah thoughts on that Andrew yeah well I mean I understand um that there's a presidential debate on tonight and many people want to watch that that's totally okay nobody here

Andrew Wilsonwhatever is telling you not to but there's a lot of people who uh they don't give a [ __ ] about the debate and would much rather deal with the interpersonal dynamics of men and women which is what we're exploring here

Eloraso I think they just like to abuse someone I mean abuse men and they monetized it

Oxanaright so the question is do you like to abuse men yes yes and they just monetize it right and it is sad it is sad what men are doing

Oxanato set what these girls are doing both are very very young and it's like I mean that's where the separation of the true relationship is happening with us being

Eloraisolated for so many years and now it's like everybody is disconnected to this and what about you do you like when

Elorasomeone or man abused you guys mentally physically no not at all I didn't consent to it so no I think it's shows a crisis of

Lauramasculinity going on like obviously these guys are extremely beta they have extremely beta fetishes and Kinks it it's just it's the crisis of masculinity

Lauraright there like a real masculine man who is a provider for his wife isn't going to do this no not at all right low low yeah but who now Laura can I give

Andrew Wilsonyou maybe a little push back on that um perhaps they are the most masculine men on planet Earth they just extremely mentally ill right I I think you're just taking advantage of mentally ill exactly

Kylie/Penny/Giathat's exactly what's going on it's a k but there's some girls that want to be like choked in the bedroom and straighten your mic a bit be like wait yeah you're good good okay they want to

Kylie/Penny/Giabe like choked in the bedroom and have like really like they want to be abused but they get off to that like that is a turn on for them so why yeah maybe but let's um let's think about this a little

Andrew Wilsonbit inside of this industry that you're in the fendom IM industry would you say if the roles were reversed and there was um there was a man who was doing the U going to abuse women for money thing do

Andrew Wilsonyou think that there would be nearly as Fe many females participating as our men no well there are I don't think so no you don't think so why do you think that

Oxanais because women are emotional question where you at Andrew who's the question directed to uh the question here would be directed at Penny why do you think

Kylie/Penny/Giathat is Penny um I just think women are more emotional and nonsexual well they are sexual but I don't think it's more for men that are

Andrew Wilsonall right so it's a it's a sexualized fetish right that seems to appeal to a certain demographic of men correct mhm yeah so if you were to have a methodology for the identification of

Andrew Wilsonmental illness wouldn't that methodology include looking for anomalies in human behavior that would be how you would identify if somebody's mentally ill or

Andrew Wilsonnot right yo you got to [ __ ] oh yeah and these are definitely anomalies right what [ __ ] yeah

Andrew Wilsonyeah they're definitely anomalies so just saying from my perspective it just sounds like a bunch of mentally ill lunatics that are essentially being taken advantage of by predatory women now the reason I disagree with you on

Andrew Wilsonthis Laura is because I think that what happens is you're able to sidestep the female responsibility portion of this by just saying oh the the men want it though uh and and they're just beta no I don't think so I think that the women

Laurahere are just as responsible as them because we're taking advantage of men who I didn't say men want it and like they're not responsible I don't think it's a great thing to do obviously it's

Lauranever something I've done um so no but I think that they're young they don't really know what they're doing and probably in 10 years they might regret

Lauradoing it but the problem is if they don't do it some other woman will you know like it's an industry it's a kink it's a fetish it's like dominatrix it falls in that line of work so there'll

Lauraalways be someone and really unless we fix the crisis of masculinity it's not going to be fixed and it is a mental illness but you could argue that doing porn is a mental illness being dominated as a mental

Andrew Wilsonillness like all these things are mental illnesses I'm not I'm not sure that I would make the direct correlation this way with something like uh like doing pornography for instance right but uh in

Laurathe case of somebody who actually wants to physically have a woman's foot stomp on their genitalia well that's different I'm talking about the guy's just giving her like 10 bucks for coffee you know or a th000 buck yeah that's a different

Andrew Wilsonlevel but they're not doing that right they're giving her money she has 1,825 PL paying clients per year who are actually soliciting a service from her and that service is to be humiliated by her listen I'm not condoning it like yeah no I'm not saying you're condoning

Andrew Wilsonit I'm just saying the reason that I think that um these men probably are mentally ill and they're just being taken advantage of is because that's such an anomaly from the male perspective of behavior that I would

Andrew Wilsonhave to categorize it in that other category of like this is Froot Loop [ __ ] right this is way it's so far outside of the ordinary for men to seek out social

Laurashaming by women I don't know how else to categorize it except as a mental illness if she has thousands of clients though and she's only one woman is it really that far out of the realm or like

Andrew Wilsonhave the men in America just totally lost it 100 out of 180 million men it's a it's essentially a statistical am but this is one girl like how big do you think your guys's industry is

Andrew WilsonI heard it's a large industry even if it was 50,000 even if it was 50,000 men that would be extraordinary small sample size that's still too many well I'm not saying it's not too

Andrew Wilsonmany but I'm just saying that it's such a small sample size uh like there's far more uh trans people out there than 50,000 I mean far more so yeah I would say that it's such a limited case uh of

Andrew Wilsonactual men yeah it's a niche and I'm sure that there's some women who can do fairly well in the niche but it's so outside of the per you for men to seek out social shaming by women usually the opposite is what you see right they're

Andrew Wilsonafraid to engage with women because they seek not to be socially shamed by him in this case The Fetish is that they do so I I don't know how else I would categorize

Elinathat they're also men they're like CEOs and they have so much money sometimes because they're always so powerful by the end of the day they're so exhausted that they want someone to to push them

Elinato the Limit maybe yes yes yes that's what I was going to say there are there are a lot of CEOs that will be like strong and powerful at job at the job but then when they come home they're like a different being and they just

Andrew Wilsonwant to be used and abused and tell them they're worthless so they can go work and have more energy at work yes just sounds like some like bizarre power fantasy my guess is U these are men who

Andrew Wilsonare mostly saving up their SSI paychecks and their social security disability in order to uh to get this sort of gratification not high powered CEOs with uh massive jobs were they're raking in millions of dollars uh what would even

Andrew Wilsonbe the incentive for that right they could get really really high high class like International prostitutes to come in and do this service for them there would be no reason to go on some uh some social service where they could even

Andrew Wilsonpotentially expose themselves right so it seems like uh probably more likely if you're if you're dealing with the numbers of anywhere from 50 bucks to a few thousand even

Laura$10,000 uh that's not that much money to shve up over time uh if you on some sort of disability or mentally ill that type of thing but you mentioned prostitution so do you think that it's not mentally

Lauraill and it's more fair if the guy is paying for a sexual service then that's fine like then he's not being taken advantage of is that your view uh no I just think I think that

Andrew Wilsonhe's he's not being taken advantage of in the same exact way so I would say he's doing something which I would have a moral problem with but I'm not so sure it's outside the social purview of how

Andrew Wilsonhow enough men act that I would consider that to be a mental illness I wouldn't say that it's such a rarity in the kind of psyche of the male that they could just go out and spend a couple hundred bucks for some [ __ ] some night right

Andrew Wilsonand uh and that's it right I'm not sure that I would categorize that in the same type of category as I'm seeking out social shame from the opposite sex on purpose and paying for it these seem

Andrew Wilsonlike um seems like you're kind of identifying an extreme and then comparing something which isn't so extreme against it fair

Andrew Wilsonyeah can you uh Andrew could you ask a question I'm just dealing with a couple things here yeah yeah sure sure so uh just to keep just to keep going here uh

Andrew Wilsonso you uh Penny you you've recently gotten involved in the kind of femd uh industry right yes and how long

Andrew Wilsonhave you been involved she has since March like I would say two months about 2 months yeah okay and has

Andrew Wilsonyour career as exploded as hers no definitely not definitely not okay and so when Brian was asking you earlier about the kind of crazier things that you have done uh was the craziest thing

Andrew Wilsonthat you've done with the femdom thing just the going and crushing this guy's balls with uh with Kylie um just like right into the mic if you

Andrew Wilsoncan yeah that was it okay that was it and and so how many clients would you say monthly you have 10 or 20 10 or 20 okay so significantly

Andrew Wilsonsmaller size yes and what are the general requests that they're asking you for just pictures of my feet or

Andrew Wilsonmyself just normal pictures mostly it doesn't so okay so those requests though don't sound like

Kylie/Penny/Giadominatrix requests right no well no they just want to see me happy and like with money okay so you're not most of these

Kylie/Penny/Giapeople you're not even like talking bad to them well no I I do talk bad but I'm talking about requests from them just pictures but if they're showing if

Elinathey're showing feet like she's sending feet pictures isn't are they like foot fetish maybe more than findom M both I think it's more that they like imagine

Laurathemselves like bowing at our feet they just like to look at our feet that's what it is got it very weird we're like laying money or most of them like into

Kylie/Penny/Giadomination at the Forefront of it like or do you think it's purely like Financial I mean the best way I can describe it is just like a guy that gets off to a gold digger relationship like

Kylie/Penny/Giahe just thinks it's hot that a girl is using him for his money and being mean to him like that's the main thing interesting if you girls had

OxanaSons so imagine you are mothers and you had Sons would you want them to act that way I don't think I would know but imagine you're a mom and you

Oxanahave a son and I find out now would you want your son to act this way in a in a relationship with the females well no no

Oxanano no no what about you if I had have some that like sent money to foms yeah so you have adult son and who is trying to develop relationship or whatever and

Kylie/Penny/Giayou found out that this is what he is doing I would not like that why not I think it's pathetic because it's yeah because it's pathetic pathetic I wouldn't raise any of my children to be

Oxanathat way it's sad how would you raise your apathetic son if you had a boy not to be that way because you're a woman it's easier to

Kylie/Penny/Giarelate to girls right if you had a daughter but if you had a son how would you raise him I would do the nurturing side of it more of the emotional side of

Laurait Nur emotional so I have four Sons yes okay I have four boys and the most important thing I think that you can do for them is have a strong masculine

Laurafather in the picture there's been studies statistical studies that if it's just a mother raising them and nurturing that does not make a masculine man that actually makes a b generally statistically I would do that

Lauraside of it though I would have obviously yeah you have to nurture we are the nurturing Force but they need to see a father figure who is strong masculine just like a role model if they don't

Kylie/Penny/Giahave that you know oh yeah I know there would there would be that in there she was asking me what I would how I would Raise Myself are you planning on telling your children that you did this I'm not

Kylie/Penny/Giagoing to be doing that for that long are you going to keep but a secret no like in the future no nothing I do would ever be a secret because it's

Lauranot in my opinion bad so do you think in 10 years when you're looking to get a husband and settle down and have kids that your husband will accept you having

Lauradone this in your past um yes you do yes a person that I pick yes in the future what kind of a husband would you be looking for what what is

Laurawhat are his like requirements someone that accepts that in my past and that won't judge me for it yeah but I mean in your ideal world if I had a magic wand right now how tall

Laurais he how much does he make per year yeah if I could deliver your dream husband to you

Kylie/Penny/Giatall funny really funny money doesn't

Lauraare you going to contribute to the household yes really mhm so when you're pregnant and throwing up 20 times a day I did it you want you're going to work not that

Kylie/Penny/Giano no okay so he has to have some money yes yes he has some money that's all I really look for non-judgmental understanding

Lauraloyal all the good I mean you should think about it you girls are very young and that's less than 1% of men statistically what you described and most of them are not going to accept

Laurathat you did this in the past you wouldd have to keep it a secret from them for them to wipe you up basically like I know in our industry um in matchmaking if a guy finds out that any woman we

Laurapresent have has done any realm of adult work even o I don't even care whatever you're on ChatterBait uh you know in just a bikini they don't care they o f they see chat like I mean it's my job to

Laurascreen to make sure the girls don't do that they don't want to meet her they don't want to meet that girl for a potential long-term relationship it is a

Lauranumber one disqualifier wait so as a Matchmaker would you like take on the client and advise them to not reveal this or I wouldn't take them on you want

Laurathem to can't I can't no I I can't represent women that have a past of sex work cuz you can't sell them right are you saying we don't sell them we got people in long-term relationships yeah

Andrew Wilsonyou are you're you're in sales right you're you're the idea is you're selling or having a person sell the best of themselves the best of their personality their best foot forward right they are selling themselves I'm not saying that

Andrew Wilsonthey're selling their body like a prostitute I'm just saying you're in the position of sales you're you're saying listen I'm going to match you up with a girl who's right for you right they want a woman of quality cell is when you do

Laurathat successfully right well we ask what the deal breakers are and the number one deal breaker is no off no past of any sex work at all saying we're never going to get married I'm not saying you're

Lauranever going to get married at all but you might not find the guy that you want you might have to I'm just saying like the top 1% of clients that I deal with like the over six feet the good-look has

Lauraa private jet wants a family I think other women should Empower women not put them down I'm not putting you down I'm just telling you the facts that these when these men hire us when they hire a Prof professional Matchmaker they it's a

Lauravery rare circumstance where someone is open to a girl that has done o it like it's happened some maybe like I've maybe had one in 10 years that's like no I'm okay with that and look I'm not shaming

TTS Readeryou at all get your bag honestly but I'm just telling you this is what men grid one sports donated $21 good to see very delusional to think

TTS Readerthe girl picks her husband women hold the key to sex but but men hold the key to relationships the man they want will

Kylie/Penny/Gianot want them Embrace patriarchy be better true unfortunately he's thank you not 100% right he's true that's 100 that's 100% right you don't get to

Andrew Wilsonchoose like you can't choose the man picks you right AR exactly how exactly would you say uh G that that she was putting down women

Kylie/Penny/Giathough by talking about she just kind of by I was just saying cuz she said that a man would never wife up a girl that does o so that's like I said the top one I didn't say a man I said the top 1% of

TTS Readermen you don't hear very well as you think okay I disagree w w has nothing to do with 1% trees 21 donated

TTS Reader$199.99 not bashing you Brian love your content I share shorts with my friends all the time I'm also terrified of a possible future where a social credit

Brian Atlassystem won't allow you to create yeah thank you man appreciate it uh thank you for the message I'll get your other one that came through earlier too in a in a bit go ahead yeah so uh I

Oxanadisagree with the approach how we view individuals um I think every one of us is given certain experiences uh for the reason and unfortunately sometimes those

Oxanaexperiences are very hurtful and painful but we should not be blamed for the past uh as long as you make uh the uh peace with the damage that you

Oxanahave done to yourself and there's going to be damage like it or not and um as long as your partner is aware of what

Oxanayour past was and you able to heal each other you know most likely you will have a partner who is pretty damaged as well but as long as you are healing each other and helping each other grow I have

Oxanaseen people overcoming all kinds of different circumstance so for me as a Matchmaker I do not judge anyone uh I work with the clients who are coming to me just absolutely broken males females

OxanaI actually don't have normal males or females everyone is broken everyone went through uh tragedies traumas my job is

Oxanato help uh people grow to help them to achieve the level of what they designed what what they supposed to be on this planet to do and it is not destroying

Oxanaman it is not destroying yourself definitely you have a bigger purpose and that goes for men or you know for Mar

Oxanamen or women so I mean everyone has a chance for love as long as you willing to work through the trauma that you are creating for yourself right now because

Oxanayou creating huge and it is definitely connected with the trauma that you experien as children I don't know your past and it's not the place to find out

Oxanabut what um people who are in a stable uh sense of themselves who are loving and caring they wouldn't be doing and enjoying doing this type of and I'm not

Oxanacriticizing any what I so what yeah you may be working through some of the past or whatever that you have uh my advice to you is don't wait too long because to

Oxanaget out from this whole because it is it is going to be real really really bad eventually so you're going deeper and deeper and deeper yeah you just will uh

Oxanayou know longer you wait more you accumulate the hate toward towards man you see so much dirt and Brokenness and pain that we are

Oxanathe product of what's happening around us so we just consume all that so what you going to bring in a relationship as a wife in the future so more you push

Oxanayour heart and emotions away less you will be able to bring something to your you know to your man who you about have you have you ever had a client come to

Laurayou and literally say I you know I want a girl in these industries like I don't know what type of clients you deal with I don't know your price point but for me I am always encouraging my clients like be more open and they're just like no

Laurait's a deal breaker so I am not saying at all that they can't find a husband in the future they can but it just you know may not be like it's not everyone not everyone is going to be forgiving of it it's this generation only that this is

Oxanahappening to that's dealing with this type these type of men so yeah so most of uh my if we're talking about males right um so most of my clients males

Oxanathey come to me um really avoidant of the intimacy because of certain traumas that had happened in their past and that's what these girls are describing so my job is I'm helping him them to overcome it and I believe in potential

Oxanaof everything every so you're more of a coach I am a coach I A Healer I am uh I am a guide I am love and I am a motivator I am everything that I can be

Oxanato help people to achieve the highest level of who they possibly can be and I do believe in everyone if there is a desire there for anyone to change if

Oxanadesire is there and pain is so excruciating that they cannot hold it anymore they want to break and break free and they want to make the changes and usually people that's only this is

Laurathe lowest point when they are capable and have a desire to make changes yeah but you didn't answer my question has a client ever come to you and said that he wants this like at the end of the day we still have to cater to our client's

Oxananeeds has the client come to me and say I actually I didn't even know what is uh what is this uh uh only fans I didn't know what only fans storm is and feel

Oxanathis wonderful show so I I learned than you I didn't know what only fan is only fan so my clients they don't even U don't even use

Laurathat or maybe I just didn't understand but it's not just only fans have they come to you and said you know it's okay if she's done any form of adult work I have a guy that literally is in like

Elinaloves me exactly for who I am and he knows everything that I do I'm so Then marry him do it I'm not holding you back usually relationships you get into a relationship when you guys have similar

Andrew Wilsontraumas and you work through the relationship all your traumas either you you what are you you relationship have similar traas

Elinawhat what are you talking about why do you get into relationships based around trauma sometimes you do you get into relationships when you have to deal with some traumas and I'm not saying marriages I'm just saying you get into

Andrew Wilsonrelationship everybody you meet everybody for a reason let's see well let's see if we can untangle a couple things here everyone's either a lesson you didn't say sometimes people get into relationships based on similar traumas

Andrew Wilsonyou said people get into relationships based on similar traumas so thing is is like I don't think that that's true that just sounds like nonsense Rel where did

Elinayou get that idea I say let her finish what yeah her C let her cook let her cook let her cook so sometimes okay I'll uh I'll reiterate so sometimes you get into a relationship

Elinawhere you guys have similar traumas where you have to work for it if it doesn't work like somebody decides to work on it and it goes up and somebody wants to stay the same the relationship doesn't work if they both start growing

Elinaand like they heal their traumas then they stay together or like all can you uh can you help me out here can you explain uh the similar traumas that

Elinapeople experience that makes them want to get into relationship together sometimes it's not by choice sometimes it's it just happens you when you go on a date they don't ask like what's your trauma let's figure it

Elinaout it just but can you give me an example of what these traumas would be that would draw TR them the more you open up about your avoidant relation like you don't want to get into a relationship but you still get into a

Kylie/Penny/Giarelationship when you're both avoidant to avoidant never can supposed to confide in your husband and wives like you're supposed to confide in them that's what you are meant to be people

Eloraare avoidant of relationships get into relationship Avid of intimacy tell everybody the whole world your business intimacy and connection I think you want to say that everyone has trauma right

Elinanot like not everyone per perfect nobody's perfect not true nobody's perfect everyone has some type of traumas they need to do you have to work through it and once you get to the point

Kylie/Penny/Giawhere you like work through it then you are completely healed and I believe that everybody can get to that point too not just yeah do you guys think you should try to heal your trauma before entering

Kylie/Penny/Giaa relationship no you don't choose like when you can't ideally yes but there is naturally it's natur it's natural to heal yourselves like everybody can do it ideally yeah you would want to heal

Oxanayourself to bring to the point of balance but I haven't seen too many people who actually do that so it ends up uh maybe it does exist yeah rarely real but typically it is would be the

Oxanaperson who didn't have the trauma and but they had stability and good uh household and nobody's perfect though that's one thing that's I agree with

Elinayeah yeah but um usually yeah avoidance they cannot be no but what I meant is like sometimes you get into a relationship and you have a Trauma from a past relationship and

Elinasome be if you find a better guy and he has other traumas you guys heal like I healed my relationship from my past relationship with this relationship as

Elinaan example like is a choice my past relationship was very abusive um yeah very abusive narcissist and then I chose to go a different route of course he

Andrew Wilsonwas well chose to go different can I ask you like can I just ask you very briefly two quick questions um was this guy actually diagnosed as a narcissist or did you diagnose him as a narcissist the

Andrew Wilsontruth you telling me I'm the narcissist here no no no the truth the truth did was he actually diagnosed as a narcissist hang on let me finish the question was he actually

Andrew Wilsondiagnosed by a team of medical professionals for narcissism or did you diagnose him as being a narcissist I realized at the end of the

Elinarelationship that he was a narcissist and there was no diagnosed diagnosis okay so you diagnosed him as being a narcissist but now I just want to point

Andrew Wilsonout that narcissism is extraordinarily rare it's an actual rare antisocial mental illness it's not common at all and yet for some reason every woman must

Andrew Wilsonbe dating the same exact guy because all of them have dated narcissists which is amazing to me that there's enough narcissist to go around considering how few of them they are there are so I'm

Andrew Wilsonled to conclude either one of two things either a there are about four to 5,000 narcissists who [ __ ] every woman in the United States or the amount of women who

Andrew Wilsonbelieve that they have uh dated a narcissist based on their own self- diagnosis which is garbage you have no business diagnosing anybody with anything ever is overwhelming because you all think you're psychologist so which one do you think it is like which

Lauraone do you think is more likely just a few thousand men [ __ ] every chick in the United States or maybe women over diagnose how many men are narciss I think the word narcissism and like narcissist is such a buzzword on social media and I I believe like it gained

Laurapopularity probably five years ago with all these women saying my ex is a narcissist which really I feel like on social and Tik Tok and stuff that really is code word for selfish yeah it's slang for like selfish I mean

Andrew Wilsonyou're right they shouldn't be saying that because NPD is a serious Disorder so absolutely I think it's just become it's a serious it's a serious antisocial disorder right it's a that's it's a

Andrew Wilsonsignificant problem if somebody actually has it imagine being branded by a woman as having an antisocial disorder because

Andrew Wilsonshe just doesn't [ __ ] like you right no diagnosis there was no team of doctors that came in there was no bill of medical professionals that spent months evaluating your social behaviors

Andrew Wilsonto make these determinations instead your ex-girlfriend just decided to put out on social media one day oh by the way he's a narcissist bastard and you should have seen this there he didn't pay for my dinner on Friday and then he

Andrew Wilsontold me I look fat in this dress this this son of a right that's what I mean that's what happens no team of so that's why I asked this question so can I ask you well I pay din deeper than that so

Elinawhy don't we go into it you said he was abusive how did he abuse you um like he he was like screaming he was throwing things at me uh he was punching the wall

Lauranext to me um out of the blue um we're just sitting at the couch and he just start screaming and throwing the remote control and like it just I can vou I I

Lauramet him he he he is a real dick and he's definitely I would say abusive but I'm not a psychologist I'm not going to diagnose him and for sure I just think it's a buzzword but he he definitely sucked and he was toxic at the very

Elinaleast yeah let's say like I witnessed it I witnessed his shitty Behavior I should have said narcissist I should have just said toxic I think that it's a better word to describe it so I don't I'm not a doctor so I can't we are trying our

Andrew Wilsonhardest here at the whatever podcast to stop the wild allegations of narcissism not every man you dated is a narcissist cuz he didn't kiss your ass I promise

Andrew Wilsonyou it's it's not the case so I just wanted to that I do feel bad for that remote control I'm sorry that he beat up your remote control that sounds terrible sorry that that happened to You' be very scary when people beat up the remote control in front of you I understand

Laurathat I mean we can't make light of a of a woman that's you know feels that she was emotionally abused I mean that's like a little we can make light of it right why can't we make light of it especially if you think if especially

Andrew Wilsonespecially when you're talking about tra you know what you know I never heard any [ __ ] bu ever talk about trauma and I started going on these different shows with various women and you know why they

Andrew Wilsondo it because it's a psychological term they love psychology I don't know why women are so drawn to psychology like little minations manipulation they think I think they think that it's going to help them manipulate their environment and people better that's why they're

Andrew Wilsondrawn to psychology so you're saying the whole women hang hang I'm going to explain let me explain the position sound angry at women like people letting me explain the position right very narcissistic so anyway the position is

Andrew Wilsonjust this that when you're talking about trauma how much trauma you have all M trauma what about M trauma just try to remember this that everything is [ __ ] traumatic doesn't matter what it is walking out of the room could be

Andrew Wilsontraumatic everything is traumatic and what women often do is they take in the moment how I felt and then they externalize it on the person next to them as though that means it's true like

Andrew Wilsonso for instance a guy punches a wall so [ __ ] what right oh but think about how it made me feel about how it made me feel and it's like well think about how it made his poor

Elinahand feel that's well clearly um he is not protecting that's a threat that's basically a threat yeah that's like threat that's that's inciting fear in her like I mean if you look up DV

Elinadomestic violence like that's in there punching things I mean I mean you can't just say that's not a big deal sorry first is a wall and then it's my face so leave before my face gets touched yeah

Andrew Wilsonyeah well I mean but your f did your face get touched no cuz I [ __ ] left sorry for my [ __ ] but right but what I'm saying is is that often times what happens is people will take how they

Andrew Wilsonfeel and map it on as though it's the reality of a situation it's also possible that this guy punched a hole in his wall and would never have touched you for all I know right so the thing is

Andrew Wilsonyou punch holes in your wall with your wife there no I don't it's not wall but if a dude you know what I have done though you I'll you think men are supposed to protect women for this one

Andrew Wilsontime I was playing Red Dead Redemption 2 and this [ __ ] was spawn camping me and he spawn camped me for hours and I could not get out of the spot I finally got so frustrated I threw the controller down on the ground and my wife went what's

Andrew Wilsonwrong and I went [ __ ] yeah but it was yeah you're not arguing with her that's separate of heral you know what I mean come on I think she's talking about in in an

Elinaargument in a verbal yelling argument he towards me it wasn't toward towards someone else like I can't understand somebody you weren't like throwing a controller at a video game this is this

Andrew Wilsonis directed at her in AR you feel this way right wasn't about a feeling actionable what is actionable is different than how you feel that's what I'm trying to but it wasn't about a feeling it was An Occurrence that

Andrew Wilsonhappened all he did it to scare her plain and simple he did it to scare her absolutely yeah what's the evidence that he did it to scare her other than she

Laurasays so why else would a guy pun a wall arguments it's not it's not normal behavior just say it like he didn't have yelling in an argument normal behavior

Elinaargument is a normal behavior which is not a normal behavior when you becomes abusive to a point where you can't do anything and you have to run away from thatment communicating it's called debating so there is uh a couple of

Oxanathings so number one if this guy is actually sick like sick mentally why did you choose him something inside of you help helped you to made you to choose

Oxanathis guy if this guy is not mentally sick but he got fed up with all the arguments with all of the negativity with drama and everything then he lost

Oxanahis school so it's one or the other so it's either poor choices because maybe he is sick right or other is that the woman is capable to either build

Oxanasomething beautiful out of men or destroy him and it is Woman's power and the way Andrew is he's not attacking

Oxanayou wanted M this is masculine this is masculine the man who stands for believes in the relationship his great dad his great husband this is masculine

Andrew Wilsonit's not an attack what men are protectors the protectors well the but the thing is is like if if you if you didn't become so enraged and emotional and you just listen to what I'm saying you'd

Andrew Wilsonunderstand the position right that's what she's saying here and she's right all I'm saying is that projecting how you feel in a moment in in an exact moment especially when you're heightened your adrenaline's pumping you're upset

Andrew Wilsonyou're the you can have perceptions of a situation when it's not clear that that actually was what the situation is it just comes down to but I felt like that did he do anything to you no but I felt

Andrew Wilsonlike he might did he actually why felt like he might have though these so these things right they're really kind of up in the air and they care for

Andrew Wilsoninterpretation and so before i' be smch man as being abusive or narcissistic or any of these things I like to see something ever get past the allegation Point into the proof point and that's

Andrew Wilsonthe point where I get very very little right and so I think that that's reasonable I think it's logical I think that people should engage in that more but they don't instead they just kind of map things on to how I felt in the

Andrew Wilsonmoment and then that makes how they felt truth when it may not actually be true all your thoughts are are true that's what I'm going to say can I ask you something hang on hang on hang on is that thought

Kylie/Penny/Giatrue all thoughts are all your thoughts are where do you where do your thoughts come from where do your where do they come from can you tell me where your thoughts come from from your brain but where what part of your brain I don't

Eloraknow the exact part but they come from your brain where did your brain come from we just want to explain that it's first red FL I don't I don't understand

Andrew Wilsonif you you think all thoughts are true yeah can you think can you think a lie what can you think a lie what do you mean can you think of a Lie Is it true

Laurathat you can think of a lie I don't lie is is it how would you feel if you didn't eat philosophical conversation

Andrew Wilsonnow so off topic anyway whatever I I guess it's a side tangent doesn't really matter can I ask you something anyway um so the point is those all I'm saying is

Andrew Wilsonthat mapping mapping how you feel onto a thing doesn't make it true that's all I'm saying doesn't mean that that was the truth of the situation I'll disagree but I yeah agree with you you just dis

Andrew Wilsonwell you can't disagree with that right you can you can disagree that in that situation I'm wrong sure but you can't disagree that just mapping a feeling on to a situation doesn't mean that the

Elinatruth of the matter is that is how the situation was I am taking responsib for my choices I just uh it was actually a

Elinatrauma that I had that I fixed it with a different boyfriend went haywire

Andrew Wilsonso yeah no I I understand but let me try again let me try it this way if I if if my daughter comes out and she says Dad I feel like there's a monster under the bed and I go in a room and I look under

Andrew Wilsonthe bed and there's no [ __ ] monster under the bed right uh is the truth of the matter that there is actually a monster under the bed because she feels like there is one but if your daughter

Lauracame to you and she's 16 and she said hey a guy hit the wall next to my face into feeling like would you not be upset about that hang on hang on answer the question then ask a

Andrew Wilsonquestion but this is an imaginary if my daughter looked under her bed I went looked under her bed there's no monster there I showed her there's no monster there how she feels she's not talking about an imagin

Andrew Wilsonimaginary circumstance is it possible for you to engage with the actual question and then ask yours so if is how she feels the truth of the matter lying is the root of

Andrew Wilsonall trauma can you answer my question literally can you can you actually answer the question who you talking to El or yeah who are you talking to I I'm talking to uh this would be

LauraLaura so Laura the the question is would the truth of the matter be that there was a monster under the bed even if she felt like there was one no there's no monster but you're comparing this to

Andrew Wilsonactual domestic violence which I don't really love so that's where well I me I I'm sorry you feel that way but I don't feel that look the definition violence the problem is with a comparison of

Laurafeeling to feeling if we're judging whether the truth of the matter is the truth of the matter but this wasn't an imaginary boyfriend like an imaginary monster like you're comparing two things that are not

Kylie/Penny/Giathe same no I'm comparing feeling asking somebody that there's no feeling it's not a Feeling is that I could say that's red wanted to I mean I don't know what else to tell you it's a feeling right if

Andrew Wilsonyou punch a wall you can't tell me that you can determine intent based off of somebody punching a wall you can't determine that you can only feel a certain way about it that's

Oxanait but if the person is punching the walls I just think you're minimizing dat and the second date and right from the start he would be if he was mental just so you understand when

Andrew Wilsonyou're talking about definitions people can define a thing however they choose to define a thing right as long as it's coherent makes sense and it's indicative of the thing which it's pointing at that's totally fine so you know as far

Lauraas the definition goes I don't see any actual problem I see what you're saying I just feel like you're excusing his behavior which I don't I just feel like by arguing about it this much you're excusing the behavior and saying it's okay even

Laurathough you wouldn't do it to your wife phen your daughter if a guy did this to her you wouldn't love it so I just feel like you're why are you lying and saying I said it was okay when did when did I ever say that you're not saying it's okay but

Andrew Wilsonfighting about it this much it just seems likeing out of his mouth specifically no I literally literally never said anything was okay what I said was I gave an argument for how you can

Andrew Wilsonmap feelings on to a a situational reality where the feelings don't mean that that is the truth of the matter instead of contending with what I said you interjected your feelings and then

Lauramade up [ __ ] I didn't even say because of how my words made you [ __ ] feel I agree I just think by making all these comparisons it seems like you're condoning it that's all yeah that's my

Andrew Wilsonopinion that's an opinion that's an accusation not OP ACC by the way that you talk you condone too that's crazy cuz I feel that way I just feel like you're the type of person

Andrew Wilsonwho condones sa I feel like it live broadcast is crazy right sa yeah what's what's that say word but do you not know what that is term here words yeah I just I just feel like that I feel like you're the

Andrew Wilsontype of person di because I feel that way who needs proof right we just we can just make whatever allegations we want just based on how we [ __ ] feel right there will be physical

Oxanaproof you know in my opinion behind every action there is uh something deeper that actually um motivating that action so I'll give you an example from

Oxanamy personal life between like a example from between me and my husband I call it Pizza example he got really really mad because pizza was not done correctly you know what was

Oxanabefore that I wanted to make pizza and lay in the paperoni in certain way to make it really perfect he wanted the pepperoni

Oxanato be laid in one level right so he got mad that I haven't done it but what is not understood I mean you can interpret his reaction by

Oxanathat he is an [ __ ] that he got mad but in reality what happened you got to look in the past his mom was pushing the foot on him that he absolutely didn't

Oxanalike it triggered a certain emotion I had uh critical parents who things were not good enough so I tried to

Oxanaovercompensate where he felt like he was not hurt so is it about pizza it's not it's all of the stuff so this a good example you're saying you're saying okay so now feeling ings are involved and

Andrew Wilsonother things are going on in the material world which are backed by the feelings that we can look at but it's up to interpretation here right there's a lot of interpretation which goes into the feeling and so that's all I'm trying

Andrew Wilsonto say is that you know when you say things like You're mitigating DV right or you're you're trying to somehow make it seem like it's not as bad as it is uh quite the opposite what I'm doing is

Andrew Wilsonadhering to a standard for how we can even judge these things coherently without slander and accusation and inuendo and backbiting and front stabbing and all that [ __ ] rather some type of appeal to

Oxanaa standard which is uniring and doesn't change something that would be backed by evidence and not feelings that's all I'm saying yeah I couldn't have said so smart as you are you're using so many

Kylie/Penny/Giaoffensive words it's okay we got we got it got we got the memo all right where were we next

Kylie/Penny/Giaquestion moving on yeah let's move on oh yeah Kylie you did have something go ahead oh I did um so you're is he is he still listening yeah he's here go ahead

Kylie/Penny/Giayou're downplaying her abusive relationship because what he punches near her he throws stuff near her but he doesn't actually hit her so if a kid were to

Kylie/Penny/Giacome to a school with a gun and someone saw it but he doesn't like how do you know if he's going to shoot anyone just well show I thought that counts he thought about it

Andrew Wilsonso what makes you think he's not I'll okay okay I'll answer the question as it's actually presented so if you're talking about this you couldn't determine 100% what his motivations

Andrew Wilsonwould be right you would have to air on the side of caution and the trends in the past which if somebody brings this said object to school usually the intention is nefarious though it does not mean in this particular instance it

Andrew Wilsonwas we would assume that it was and we would act accordingly especially since the school says that you can't have the gun there etc etc for good reason so you would uh base this along patterns you'd base it along the law you'd base it

Andrew Wilsonalong the actual action right when you're talking about uh DV it's going to be the exact same thing it's not just up to interpretations up to action so I can think of many situations where a man

Andrew Wilsoncould get frustrated and throw something and meant no harm to anybody or punch a wall had a frustration and meant no harm to anybody the interpretation which comes in uh the feelings based

Andrew Wilsoninterpretation you may not like that but it's very difficult for us to always map on motive if we don't have better context than just one time he hit a wall next to me right no but she had

Andrew Wilsonmentioned that he was throwing things at her so why would she not think that she could be that cuz like well we're not very clear on the exact situation are we right we don't know what the sequence of events was did he throw things at her

Andrew Wilsonbefore he punched the wall we don't know she just said he threw things but ultimately But ultimately just to kind of Grant this just to just to Grant all of this right I'm just going to Grant all of it

Andrew Wilsonthat he's thrown things at her I'll even Grant go Andrew go ahead no go Andrew you go ahead just I was just saying I can just I can just grant all of this is being true it doesn't matter my

Andrew Wilsonstatement that your feelings are interpretive is not ever going to change your feelings are totally interpretive and just because you feel like something is true it doesn't make it true it's

Andrew Wilsoninterpretive there's no changing that but what I see women always do is say how I feel is valid and it's not open to interpretation how I feel is true and it's like no that's not the truth of the matter just because you feel that way

Kylie/Penny/Giathat's my point I disagree I fully disagree with that how you feel it is truth what he just say yeah what your thoughts are all

Kylie/Penny/Gialike they don't just come out of nowhere like everything you think is actually like really happening that's what's I have to say about that that goes back to what I said earlier but it's fine it's exactly I

Kylie/Penny/Giadon't know if a guy had the intent of keeping or wanting his girlfriend to feel safe why would he be aggressive around her and throw things at her or Punch walls next to her well I'm not so sure that the

Andrew Wilsonintention in that particular case would be that he's trying to make her feel safe I don't think that the entirety of a man's existence is tailored around making women feel [ __ ] safe I don't think that that's what they're they do

Andrew Wilson24 hours a day is worry all day long about making you [ __ ] feel safe that's what you guys are suppos to you I think that you feeling safe right and that itself is open to interpretation

Andrew Wilsonright because again it's a feeling you could feel unsafe in a situation that you're totally safe in right this is why the marriage but I ask Alina if the guy was acting like can I get an answer real

Andrew Wilsonquick can I get an answer to my question oh it was a question you could be in a situation correct where you feel totally unsafe where the truth of the matter is

Andrew Wilsonthat you're totally safe no no what no you could so you couldn't be for instance uh getting prepped for like I don't know a medical procedure or

Andrew Wilsonsomething like this and you could feel unsafe right even though let's say it has like a 100% success rate you could feel unsafe uh but the truth of the matter is is you would be unsafe because

Andrew Wilsonyou felt unsafe you always have the risk okay so so by that metric then shouldn't everybody just always feel

Andrew Wilsonunsafe at all times because at all times a Bad Thing could happen no well okay well then I don't understand how it could be possible that you couldn't be in situations where you

Elinacould just feel unsafe even though you weren't unsafe I don't really understand that I think sometimes the intuition plays a role so if you feel unsafe maybe something is wrong I

Andrew Wilsonagree yeah maybe maybe's the key word here right maybe's doing a lot of heavy lifting here sure maybe but is it the

Andrew Wilsoncase that it's always true that because you feel unsafe you are unsafe what's making you feel unsafe though like I you had a bad [ __ ] dream you had a bad dream and you woke

Andrew Wilsonup and you're scared right cuz in the dream there was a crazy there was a crazy chainsaw wielding clown let me finish let me finish and I'll let you respond right in your dream a c a crazy

Andrew Wilsonchainsaw clown was chasing you down the street right and you woke up and you went and you were feeling really unsafe were you actually unsafe were you actually

Elinaunsafe I feel like your examples is a little off to the question sense to can I give an example not like can't

Andrew Wilsonanswer please answer were you actually unsafe because you feel no okay thank you you're welcome appreciate it just tell him what he wants to hear and now you can ask whatever want I'll

Andrew Wilsontell you what I want I'll submit to you master no I'm saying I'll actually answer your questions I would just like if you

Eloraactually answered mine you are comparing with real uh person man and then unreal situation it's well they're both really

Kylie/Penny/Giadifferent one's very like physical and one's like I think he's just saying what you feel is a personal experience might not actually be a reality exactly yes yes

Andrew Wilsonhow do I how do I send money down so that you can go get a drink after this on me because I don't know why you're the only human being on that panel [ __ ] understood a word I just said

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