Andrew Wilson vs. Feminists! Scumbag Doctor GHOSTS Her After Taking Her V-CARD?! | Dating Talk #152

Date: 2024-04-15

Duration: 8h 15m

Guests

Brian Atlas

MMillennial Millie >

AAndrew Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00TTS/Background Voice(audience)

SPEAKER_01Andrew Wilson (alt segment)(guest)

SPEAKER_02Raina(guest)

SPEAKER_03Faith(guest)

SPEAKER_04Daliah(guest)

SPEAKER_05Alicia(guest)

SPEAKER_06Kisha(guest)

SPEAKER_07Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_08TTS/Donation Voice(audience)

SPEAKER_10Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_12Millennial Millie(guest)

SPEAKER_13Renee(guest)

SPEAKER_14Eden(guest)

Key Moments

IntroBrian asks guests to introduce themselves; reveals notable panel: 21yo married Faith, former OnlyFans creator Raina, 27yo Kisha with trafficked sister.

“"please tell us your name age location and occupation"”

OtherRaina introduces herself as a 21yo who has had OnlyFans for 2 years and is looking for a new job after quitting.

“"my name is Raina and I'm 21 and um my occupation I've had only fans for the past two years"”

OtherKisha reveals she was briefly married; husband put her in hospital; her sister was trafficked and she has not seen her in 4 years.

“"he had put me in the hospital... my sister was trafficked... I haven't seen her for four years"”

OtherRenee says "I wish I was aborted" as a hypothetical argument for abortion rights; panel takes it seriously and checks on her wellbeing; she clarifies it was rhetorical.

“"I wish my mom had aborted me... I wasn't alive today because my childhood was rough"”

ControversyAndrew Wilson argues women should not have the right to vote; argues rights are social constructs enforced only by men. Brian quickly disavows the position on camera.

“"men are the enforcers of Rights... only men should be able to have the stake and the claim to vote"”

QuoteBrian publicly disavows Andrew's women-shouldn't-vote position to protect channel from cancellation.

“"women should vote I'm I'm fine with it not trying to get cancelled"”

QuoteDaliah rates herself a solid 8 in looks.

“"do a solid eight solid eight"”

OtherRaina recounts visiting LA for modeling; her agent had no real license; she received death threats at the model house on her first trip to LA.

“"apparently my agent didn't even have a real license... when I got to the model house I was getting death threats"”

OtherFaith recounts waking up with unexplained dark bruises after sleeping with an atheist coworker she describes as possibly an "Antichrist" type; never saw him again; experience drove her to celibacy and Christianity.

“"I woke up with um like things bruis like bruises and what the [bleep]... really really dark bruises and I don't know how they got there"”

OtherEden recounts being a 19yo virgin who dated a 40yo podiatrist from San Francisco for 3 months; he took her virginity then immediately blocked her on all platforms. He kept a digital Kindle scrapbook of every woman with photos and written reviews.

“"after after we had sex though I I got home and I was blocked... there was chapters"”

QuoteBrian's shocked reaction to Eden's doctor ghosting story.

“"holy F*** bro this is... he had the big book of virgins"”

QuoteRaina discloses her body count as 21; notes she knows a civilian man with 23 so she is "doing better than most."

“"uh like 21... I know a guy with 23 and he wasn't even a sex worker"”

OtherBrian announces this was the longest stream ever, breaking the 8-hour mark, then raids WowGrandma78 (82yo World of Warcraft streamer) on Twitch.

“"this is our longest show ever we broke the f*** eight hour stream mark... we are going to raid... WowGrandma78 she's 82 she plays World of Warcraft"”

Topics Discussed

Guest introductions

Guests introduce name, age, location, occupation, relationship status. Notable: Kisha reveals briefly married (husband involved in trafficking, put her in hospital); Raina reveals 2-year OnlyFans career; Faith reveals she is 21 and married.

Relationship status round

Brian goes around the table asking about current relationship status, longest relationship, how it ended, and recent dating activity. Renee: on-again-off-again (ex texted her that day). Raina: recently single after 2-year relationship with ~40yo adult film performer. Faith: met husband at club in Berkeley. Kisha: was briefly married, husband became adversarial. Millie: common-law married 12 years, two kids. Eden: 1.5-year age-gap relationship with 32yo.

Men play chess, women play checkers

Kisha presents her father's philosophy that men and women think differently: men play chess (long-term strategy, compartmentalization), women play checkers. Discussion of whether feminists in power are being manipulated by men behind the scenes. Panel debates and partially agrees.

Deal breakers round

Brian asks each guest for their deal breakers in a partner. Renee: no passion in life, no style. Daliah: disrespect, disloyalty. Kisha: man who does not put God first; unequally yoked. Raina: mama's boy, porn-watching, feminine men. Faith: passive/feminine men. Millie: not loyal, no God relationship. Alicia: addiction (vice as mistress). Eden: no goals/career ambition, too much partying. Andrew: cruelty to children and elderly.

Porn, OnlyFans, and body count

Discussion of whether prior adult content work is a deal breaker. Raina (former OF creator) says it depends on context; deal breaker is active habit. Panel analyzes psychology: ex watching porn -> Raina started OF. Brian's position: sex work history is 100% deal breaker for long-term relationship.

Abortion debate

Extended debate triggered by hypothetical: Renee says if she got pregnant tomorrow she would consider abortion because she wants to go to law school. Andrew Wilson argues from pro-life position. Debate covers: when life begins (24-week viability vs conception), Scott Peterson double-homicide analogy, financial readiness argument, adoption and foster care. Renee mentions she sometimes does not want to live; panel addresses this carefully.

Who is a feminist (panel round)

Brian asks each guest if they consider themselves a feminist. Renee: identifies as black feminist (intersectional). Andrew: not a feminist; argues Millie IS a feminist by egalitarian definition. Millie: not a feminist; reformed feminist; believes in traditional gender roles. Faith: not a feminist. Alicia: not a feminist. Eden: qualified yes (equality + traditional roles). Kisha: not a feminist; Christian. Daliah: not political.

Women's voting and Christianity — patriarchy debate

Andrew Wilson argues Christian ethics require patriarchy; female pastors are "fake Christians." Millie partially agrees on traditional roles but rejects women-shouldn't-vote. Panel debates whether submission in marriage means husband has absolute financial authority. Millie says husband manages joint account; she trusts his judgment.

Women's suffrage debate

Andrew Wilson argues women should not have the vote; bases argument on: (1) rights are social constructs enforced by men, (2) only enforcers of rights deserve voting stakes. Millie and Renee argue from constitutional/god-given rights framework. Extended debate on whether rights are real vs social constructs. Brian disavows Andrew's position on-air ("women should vote, I'm fine with it").

Military conscription and women

Panel debates whether gender equality requires women to be subject to military draft. Eden says she would be "not opposed to it." Millie argues women should not be drafted due to reproductive role and physical differences. Andrew runs population/polygamy argument. Brian notes he personally does not support female conscription.

AR-15 in bedroom — gun ownership as red flag?

Chat scenario: perfect man in every way but has a loaded AR-15 next to bed. Renee: would ask why; would want it secured away from future kids. Kisha and others: not a deal breaker if he follows gun laws. Faith: depends on context — goofy college kid vs. grown man. Andrew/Brian: self-defense discussion; AR-15 fires small 5.56 bullets.

Self-ratings (1-10 looks)

Brian has Stiffler (chat) ask each guest to rate their looks 1-10. Daliah: 8. Raina: 8.5. Background voice: 6. Millie declines to rate but chat can rate her. Kisha: 4. Andrew rates his wife at 6. Debate over whether self-rating is meaningful or gendered.

Physical attractiveness: male vs female standards

Extended debate on whether women can objectively rate their own attractiveness. Andrew argues women deflect the question by adding non-physical qualities. Kisha argues women gauge attractiveness through internalized male gaze. Discussion of fertility as basis for male attraction to women. Andrew rates his wife at 6 physically.

Hoe to housewife: can promiscuous women reform?

Panel debates whether women with promiscuous or sex-work backgrounds can make good long-term partners. Kisha (Christian): references Rahab from Bible; reformed individuals deserve family. Brian: women can change but men are not obligated to marry them after. Alicia: shares personal redemption arc around alcoholism. Andrew: hypothetical about son wanting to marry 250-scene OF performer.

Raina's adult industry story

Raina elaborates: started OnlyFans at ~19 living on her own; recruited by message. No family financial support. Ex-boyfriend was ~40yo adult film performer; narcissistic/abusive. He cheated; she found him searching for new girls on YouTube. Also recounts: modeling agency in LA; agent had no real license; received death threats at model house on first visit to LA.

Faith's personal story: party phase, Antichrist encounter, marriage

Faith describes freshman year at ASU: feminist/astrology phase, party culture, depression. Describes relationship with atheist coworker she slept with 3 times after 4-month slow-burn; woke up with unexplained dark bruises; never saw him again; describes this as encounter with "Antichrist-type." Became born-again Christian; met husband at club; married at 21.

Eden's doctor ghosting story

Eden (21yo) recounts: at age 19, met 40yo podiatrist from San Francisco on Tinder. 3-month courtship; daily calls; 5 in-person dates; he promised love and future. He took her virginity; as soon as she got home, he had blocked her on everything. He had a digital Kindle scrapbook with chapters on each woman he'd slept with (reviews, photos, profile pics). Brian/panel: he was a serial virginity-collector. Panel reacts with shock; Eden says she dodged a bullet.

Body count round

Brian asks each guest their body count. Renee: declines initially; confirms less than 10. Raina: 21. Millie: single digits (between her and future husband; been with current partner since age 20). Daliah: declines. Andrew: declines; teased to multiply whatever he says by 3. Panel agrees men have the right to care about body count.

Transcript

Page 1 of 9

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Brian Atlasdescription yeah you can uh go join it there disclaimer the views expressed by the guest do not necessarily reflect the views of the whatever podcast without further Ado we're going to have the

Reneeguests introduce themselves so please tell us your name age location and occupation goad hi my name is Renee um I'm 19 years old I'm a second year at UCSB in my Major's political science and

DaliahI'm currently working as a server where are you from uh originally I'm from Orange County Anaheim good old Disneyland gotcha what about you hi I'm Dalia I'm 20 I'm from San Francisco and

KishaI'm currently going to Santa Barbara City College for nursing all right welcome uh hi I'm Kisha and I I'm originally from Canada I'm an American

KishaIndian though um and I my occupation uh I do a podcast with my father he's a mechanical engineer and we exposed uh in early 2020 the improper

Kishacontagion mitigations for the co pandemic or the pandemic whatever um and how it's tied to election interference treason and trafficking and uh biot terrorism and so we kind of do that on

Kishathe podcast uh and I I don't know if I said my age but I'm 27 all right welcome and are you from the French speaking part of Canada I am I'm originally from

KishaManitoba um which is it's English and French I guess do you speak French uh yes a little bit I'm patio okay what

Rainaabout you um my name is Raina and I'm 21 and um my occupation I've had only fans for the past two years but I'm looking for a new

Rainaoccupation what did you so you quit right or um yeah I pretty much quit yet what is pretty much me well so I'm was

Rainaworking with my ex-boyfriend uh on only fans for like the past two years but we got in this point in our relationship where we both just wanted to quit um and

Rainaso yeah so I'm living off my revenue and I'm looking for a new job were you doing any other kind of uh s work besides of yeah I did um mainstream I don't know if

FaithI can say the word corn adult adult content adult content content yeah okay any dancing no no dancing hi my name is Faith I am 21 I'm

Faithan Arizona native however I'm currently living in central California um I go to Arizona State uh and I'm in the Honors College that they have there I'm

Faithstudying psychology but I'm also getting my certificate in art education and um I currently work at a grocery store and I am also a wife all right awesome hi I'm

Millennial MillieBilly Weaver I'm a conservative journalist uh big on YouTube Millennial Millie on YouTube and um I'm also a co-founder of a tech company called QX which provides disruptive technology

Millennial Milliethat doesn't spy on you or collect data on you I'm also a co-founder of sluth army which is a army of researchers in sluth that do

Millennial Millieinvestigations um I'm also the vice chair of the women's networking Club did you say your age I am 33 years old and I'm a mother of two all right welcome hi

Aliciathanks for having me my name is Alicia I am 36 years old I am originally from Albuquerque New Mexico but I currently

Aliciareside in LA and I am a um what is my oh sorry I'm a stay home mom okay hi my

Edenname is Eden I'm 21 I'm from Fresno California and I work in the tech department of a nonprofit and I'm studying computer

Andrew Wilsonscience okay right into it okay sorry your age uh 21 all right got it Andrew yeah my name is Andrew Wilson host of The Crucible it's the fastest growing debate Channel

Brian Atlason YouTube um I do political satire I'm a political commentator and I'm a blood sport debater all right welcome everybody so we're going to go around the table once more what is everybody's current

Brian Atlasrelationship ship status so are you single talking stage situationship Friends with Benefits relationship married polyle sex cult whatever it may be if you're single how long have you been single and what's the longest

Reneerelationship you've ever been in starting with you go ahead you chose the youngest one to go first um I'm currently single the longest

Reneerelationship I've ever been in was um I think does it even count if I was in high school September 2020 to

ReneeApril 2022 okay so two years about how long have you been single did you say that oh I've been single since February right before Valentine's Day you got dumped

Brian Atlaslike the day before Valentine's Day no like a few days before you you wait so they broke up with you though it's it's complicated it's comp so you've been single for like

Reneetwo months about right um and orientation I'm straight straight okay two months so it was a mutual breakup then well no we we had we were on and

Brian Atlasoff up until that point that was the last time we were in contact it messy yeah how many times was it on and off oh you're how many like break for me um I I

Reneeblocked him on October and then I texted him again probably like beginning of November and then he blocked me again in January like middle of January and then he unblocked me again and like a week

Brian Atlaslater and then by the beginning of February it was done there a lot of blocking a lot of blocking unblocking wait so you would block him but it sounds like you would so you would end it but you would also kind of reach back

Reneeout I really hope he's not watching this uh yeah both of us sort of kind of kind of toxic it was a little toxic so how many times total you said there

Brian Atlaswere two times total that it was off I mean in that in that period of time yes well in the that wasn't our first time ever breaking but in in the entire in the entire duration of the

Brian Atlasrelationship no we had broken up before that how like how many times total probably two other times let's say four total four okay four total uh so four times total and then you ended it each

Reneetime no it was definitely alternating for alternating reasons okay I see it was a very complicated relationship it was like a situationship and then we started dating and then we stopped dating and then we kept talking and then

Reneewe got back together so what are the odds do you guys get back together again he just texted me today after two months don't do it don't do it I won't I won't it's okay what did he say hey that's it

Reneeoh he gave you the hey Okay uh and are you uh con contemplating getting back with him getting back with them is a strong word

ReneeI I I would like a a fat apology first I you need a fat apology you need a fat apology yeah not hey did you text him back back when he said hey I haven't yet

Brian Atlasare you going to we'll see if there is if there's no fat apology um I don't know depends depends who DMS me after the show if there is a fat

Reneeapology are you taking him back I I would probably need like a few weeks after the apology that's kind of what happened when we were on and off I'd be like okay like I'm not going to

Reneedate you yet but like let's let's take some time and see if you can prove to me that you've improved you know I mean is this long distance or does he live in s he lives in Santa Barbara Santa Barbara

Reneeokay all right and uh and how long were you uh seeing this guy I met him my first week of my freshman year of college okay and you're a sophomore

Brian Atlascurrently yeah okay so you guys been on and off seeing each other for a year and a half or so or almost two years yeah but like I haven't contact him contacted

Brian Atlashim in two months two months and yes was it sorry today oh today he said okay I know wow okay crazy luck to be on the show and during those off any of the off periods or during this most recent uh

Brian Atlasyou know you've been single for two months uh have there been other people in the picture yeah like most uh I kind of asked you two questions there most

Brian Atlasrecently have there been like in the uh past two months have you been seeing other people yeah been I have dating apps dating I just which will do the dating app

Brian Atlaslat um and then what about those in between breaks did did you see other people did he see other people for the last two we both saw other people in between and did it

Reneebother you at all that he was seeing other people it didn't when I was seeing other people but then I stopped seeing other people and then he started seeing other people and then it bothered me and did it bother him when you were seeing it

Reneewasn't at first but then I actually started doing it see that because it was a situationship he was like oh no we don't have to be exclusive and then I started seeing other people and he was like we have to be exclusive what is

Brian Atlaswrong with you Goa and so what um what did he do that necessitates a fat apology I think you called it oh my gosh I don't does she have some relationship

Brian Atlasdrama she wants to spill or like I I I won't go too too long on this I'm just curious uh yeah if they the reader digest version okay well oh wow

ReneeI I'll just spill it why not um he's in a frat and I went to a frat date party with him M and it was after all the different breakups and I was IID asked him like oh did you invite anyone before

Reneeme and he was like no I was joking like cuz he had told me before he was going to invite someone else he invited another girl before he invited me and she couldn't go and I found out and then

Reneeshe told I told her he's still with his ex or like he's still doing stuff with his ex and he got super mad at me and then he texted her that he never knew who I was

Brian Atlashe texted her that he texted her that he never even knew who I was and you guys were together at this point when he invited this other girl no we weren't I was I was his ex who he took to the date party but I was thinking like oh my God

Faithhe wants me back you know what I mean huh oh so you were like second choice kind of for the day party can I just say that I think you genuinely deserve so much better than that as a human being

TTS/Background Voicejust Clarity and I think honesty I you you deserve better I think everyone does well we don't know his side of the story

Millennial Millieoh um I mean I could we I I could take up the whole podcast yeah don't ever be a guy's number two if if you if you're seen in his mind as a number two just

Brian Atlaslook elsewhere don't put up with that disrespect and so he's in a fraternity you're at city college is that correct you're at UCSB are you in a sority no no

Brian Atlasokay all right frat guy say up no okay all right you don't tell us which frat he's in but um okay got it well we can maybe uh get some more a little bit

Daliahlater what about you um I'm single right now and then I've been singles since like the end of or like this summer I

Daliahguess yeah and then so like nine nine months yeah 6 months pretty much yeah s months yeah like June is I would say

Daliahthey can't all be yeah right June yeah I don't know sorry the end of the school year I would say months when summer started okay okay we'll say nine 9 10

Daliahmonths okay yeah uh how and longest relationship um like three years 3 years we kind of were off for a little bit but we were still talking and we just like

Brian Atlasdidn't see anybody and then we got back together but it was solid for 2 years was that the one that ended 9 months ago yeah okay got it

Daliahall right uh and who ended that um it was kind of mutual like we both kind of just we kind of outgrew each other I met

Daliahhim when I was 15 so and he was moving back to the Bay area and I'm living here so it just kind of fading away oh was long distance yeah and we were just

Daliahalready kind of fading away fading out so you know it's just kind of the best thing and you said it was on again off again a little bit or um no just like once okay one time yeah yeah just for a

Daliahcouple months we both still lived here still talked to each other didn't see anybody else um and then kind of realized that we still really like loved each other so yeah then we got back

Kishatogether and you know we just faded out so okay what about you um I've been I'm single I've been

Kishasingle for like a few years and I guess the longest EST relationship that I've had was like a year you've been single a few years um

Kishaso you're 27 now when's the last time you were I guess not single um 23 24 uh I guess it's like kind of complicated

Kishacuz I mean I had like uh so like I was in a relationship but that was not I don't think that can

Kishareally count as a relationship because I don't know it's like it's hard to like explain but pretty much like when it's not funny but like it's

Kishafunny cuz it's not funny wait he started dating men no so like I I had a relationship but it's like my dad said it's not really a relationship because

Kishalike when we started exposing a lot of like the stuff during the pandemic uh they ended up turning on me the person ended up turning on me and my family and was involved in like like trafficking

Kishalike me and my family so it doesn't really count but that's like the last what wait trafficking you and your family or traing trafficking like human trafficking so like it's not it wasn't like a real relationship trafficking

Brian Atlasyour family yeah me and like the whole family she was involved in trafficking like me and wait you said you're from Canada like so he's trying to he's trying to traffic you to the United States that's not what I said I just

Kishasaid that he was involved in like human trafficking me and my family so it wasn't a real relationship but that was like the last I'm really stuck on this though what do you mean trafficking you

Kishaand your family human trafficking fin exploitation of an individual yeah so but how though like how what in what way was he

Kishatrafficking I I I I I don't even know how I can make that question more clear like the financial and sexual exploitation he was involved in it there's a lot

Kishabehind it and if you really want more information I can get that to you at another time but I'm just saying it was not a real relationship for that reason um my father said that there's a lot to

Kishathe situation that I'm not going to understand and I think that's true I'm just saying that I it wasn't a real relationship but it was the last situation that I was in and that was

Kishalike years ago so is he trafficking away brothers and sisters or did you hear what I just said I said if you want more information you can get it from my father but there's information

Kishasurrounding it that I'm not going to understand because men were involved in creating those circumstances so how did you how did you meet meet him was it a dating app no um it was at a university

Kishahe was a student there yeah were you a student there yes was was he about your age yes so what age were you what age was he

Kishawhen you guys met um like 20 19 or 20 and he was Canadian citizen

Kishayes was he involved in like gangs or what gangs mhm I I don't know I suppose gangs are involved in I don't know trafficking I don't know if he was

Kishainvolved in gangs like I said there's a lot of information that I'm not privy to um but that's just what the situation was so how and you said you were dating him for one year is this the one you

Kishasaid you were in a relationship for one year but is this the one that you're not sure if it was a relationship no I'm telling you it wasn't a relationship because but is that the one you were seeing him for one

Kishayear no so I said the relationship was about like a year um but uh we were married and then ended up splitting

Kishabecause of that so like I said when my father and I started exposing the crimes during the pandemic he ended up turning on me and my family um your H your

Kishahusband did yes and uh and were you and your husband living together no not at that time so you were married but you weren't living with him well he had we really don't need to get too much

Kishainto it but he had put me in the hospital um and so that's why I was staying with my dad um and then he ended up getting involved in a lot of stuff

Kishaagainst my family like uh when we exposed all these stuff we ended up losing our house um our car is Corporate assets my sister was stolen haven't seen

Kishaher in like four years wait your your sister was stolen yes she was trafficked so I haven't seen her for four years no people that were involved so there was multiple like agencies

Kishainvolved but I mean wait do you know where she's located no are youan do you mean three-letter agencies came in and got her there was multiple agencies involved so I worked

Kishafor the government and my dad is a mechanical engineer and we were exposing different agencies in the area what branch of the government did you work for um this is a skatch and health

Kishaauthority okay as a provincial government so um pretty much uh we were exposing how that like I said the improper contagion mitigation procedures

Kishafor the pandemic were used for election interference biot terrorism treason against Canada and the United States um human trafficking yeah we can't get into we can't get into

Andrew Wilsonthis we don't need the details about that [ __ ] speci I said if you want more information hang on hang on just because we can't say those words those specifics words we can still at least figure out

Andrew Wilsonor try to figure out because this is wild right so we went from you're in a relationship to know you were actually married and your husband started trafficking members of your family and your sister is gone and has been gone

Kishafor years you don't know where she is you could see where we're like what is going on here like I said there's a lot it's not something that you can just explain in like 5 minutes so like I said it wasn't a real relationship and you can leave it at that and if you want

Kishamore information like I said you can more than welcome to reach out to Dale Richardson on Twitter or his email moving on what about you um all right I'm recently single I kind of forgot the

Rainarest of questions I got out of relationship a couple months ago and that was my longest relationship and we were dating for about two a little over

Brian Atlas2 years so okay 2 years and you said you recently got out of it uh how long or how long ago um about three months ago

Faithso you've been single for three months okay I am currently married I've been married for 4 months so we're broke Newly Weds um and uh our marriage is

Faithdefinitely very traditional and and I like it like that um but yeah um you said married for three months four months four months and how long were you

Brian Atlasguys together before that not long um less than a year actually so so you've been together you've been together for a year or it's a year in four months um no

Faithum I'm sorry this is this is my fault um so we met in June and then we got married in December so we were together for less than a year yeah so we've been literally married married and together

Brian Atlasplus for less than a year it was very very fast but so you were dating for like 5 months about and then got married so you've been together for about n nine months yes okay and is that your is this

Faithyour longest relationship uh no it's not um I had one that was slightly longer um about I would say a year and two months uh but that was back in high school I

Faithended it um okay and are you guys the same age yes uh well he's a year younger than I am but close enough then your

Faithhusband oh uh no so my uh my husband uh is just a year younger than I am and um the person that or the guy the guy I was with for a year and two months uh was

Faithjust a year older than I was but a year older than your husband yeah so you're like a cougar basically I know yes I we J that all right okay how did you and your husband meet um we actually met at the

Faithworst possible place for couples to meet uh we met at the club um I yeah um Amen to that um so he uh it was his very first time ever at a club and it was my

Faithlast time ever at one my friend and I went up to uh Berkeley and uh the little sort of show that we were going to see there that little concert uh we just ended up taking too long and we didn't

Faithmake it and we were like we're ansy let's let's get out and do something and that's what ended up being on the radar cuz you know what happens after 11:00 um

Faithand uh and yeah so we met there and there was this total Creeper following me around and uh and so of course you know you do that thing where if there's a guy that's you know bothering you you

Faithmake eye contact with someone else and give him the look of help me please and uh he just came right up to me pretended like he knew me like hey I've been looking for you you know and uh we had like a three-hour long conversation about going down the rabbit hole about

Faithyou know the government politics short form content all that sort of stuff and he's just super intellectual and yeah we just clicked really well so now how old did you say you were again I'm 21 do you buy him

Brian Atlasalcohol I'll do anything for my husband okay just like of course so he uh the way like you didn't know him you made eyes with him cuz some

Millennial Millieother guy was bothering you and that's kind of how you guys you guys met yes yes okay all right yeah Millennial Millie what about you so my longest

Millennial Millierelationship is just about 12 years mhm and obviously that's my husband that I'm with we have two kids and what else do

Millennial Millieyou want to know uh no so you've been uh you you said you've been together for 12 years you're married almost 12 years yeah how long have you been married for

Brian Atlasum we common law married pretty soon after getting together okay so you're common law married um but did you have like an official marriage or not an

Millennial Millieofficial marriage we don't want to get the state mingled in our Affairs do you have a covenant marriage huh do you have a covenant marriage yeah basically we're we're like Covenant with God common law

Andrew Wilsonmarried we don't want the state and the judges I me was it officiated by a church a covenant marriage officiated by a church yes by a Christian church but we just didn't want to ever register it

Aliciayeah that's fine yeah okay MH uh my relationship status I am married and I have been my longest relationship has been 16 years and is that your current

Aliciayes it is all right and how long have you been married so we haven't had our wedding yet but we technically are legally married um okay and we like I said we've been together 16 years so

Aliciawait so you how long have you been legally married legally married I think it would be a couple years couple years okay no ceremony though no uh there's a few Det tells we want to iron out I want

Aliciato actually get married in a Catholic Church okay he's not Catholic is he he is not yeah so they wouldn't marry well I think they actually would um but I

Aliciahaven't completed my sacrament of um what is it uh confirmation so you haven't been confirmed in the Catholic church I haven't no okay so are you a catak human uh well I was baptized and I

Aliciahad my First Holy Communion when I was very young okay and then I um okay was a fallen Catholic Oh briefly well not briefly what does that mean Fallen

AliciaCatholic meaning like I had a year or actually like 17 years of just falling away from my faith um kind of becoming

Andrew Wilsonmore atheistic okay so you're you're going back and your priest said that he wanted you to go back through this before acceptance or I'm sorry I say that last your priest said he wanted you to go through AB andc before you

Aliciaaccepted back or no um so now that we have decided we wanted to get married that's where I want to get married as in a Catholic Church um so I have to be

Aliciaconfirmed and I think he may just have to be baptized um because I've met I've talked to a few people like for instance my aunt she's Catholic uh but her

Edenhusband is Jewish so they were able to get married in a Catholic Church okay yeah what about you um I am in a committed relationship it's the longest relationship that I've ever been in it's

Brian Atlasbeen about one and a half years I would say and um it is an age Gap relationship so my boyfriend is 11 years older than me

Brian Atlasso he's 32 33 yeah okay 21 32 all right how did you guys meet um we actually met

Edenat the mall he hit on me funny enough just came what was his opening line um he just asked for my number but was straight up yeah what's your like what's

Edenyour number well I mean no hi he was like hey I think you're really pretty and then he just for my number and we went on a date after that but all right

Brian Atlashe took his shot it worked good good [ __ ] all right uh Andrew your relationship status I'm married I've

Brian Atlasbeen married for 12 years uh yeah okay great so uh I've got some pre-show notes here that I'm going to

Brian Atlasstart with uh really quick Casa right you said on your Twitter saw this men play chess women play checkers I was

KishaCur I was I was curious what what do you mean by that so like my dad raised me to understand that men play chess and women play checkers so that they have a

Kishacompletely different line of thinking than women do and um I didn't really used to like understand what he was talking about but as I got older I did

Kishaand especially the last couple of years I see in real time every day men uh creating circumstances for things that women don't see whether it be positive or negative and men are meant to do that he said because they are the leaders in

Kishathe home so they're supposed to create the circumstances for their family's success and they do that by chess and it happens completely unpronounced to women uh because we just don't think in that

Kishaway and that's a good thing like they have a very like a strong ability to compartmentalize and uh so that they can keep going in difficult situations and

Kishahardships that chisel them rather than uh [ __ ] women right um just that's how they become great men and fathers uh

Millennial Millieokay yeah could you give an example of how what does it mean women play with chess like men play chess Checkers sorry women play checkers for example does

Kishaanybody play like Tic Tac Toe in this who's might I the Tic Tac Toe but uh an example of this I would say is a lot of

Kishawomen um feminists who are in power um a lot of times they think that they are the ones pulling the strings and making decisions and men are giving them positions of power so that they can feel

Kishalike uh they're making good moves whole time the men are behind the scenes pulling the strings on what they're doing and even actually more in control than they understand them to be and just

Kishausing the women as a pawn so they're playing chess in real time and moving all the pieces on the board meanwhile the women think they're making decisions but the men are just setting them up to do exactly what they want whether they

Kishadecide to submit or not so a lot of women are like oh I would never submit to a man but in in actuality either with men in society whether you choose to submit or not they're going to make you

Kishasubmit like you either choose to submit to a husband and a father who loves and cares about you and God or you're going to submit to someone in Corporate America that's just going to play chess moves with you for their own benefit and

Kishatheir own family so that's a real-time example judges lawyers whatever word now do any of the girls disagree

Millennial Milliewith her um I I would say I agree with most of what Kisha said um I I would push back a little bit like I I I don't think that we should

Millennial Millieunderestimate the capabilities of some women I would say that overall many women especially when they're younger sorry uh when they're younger when

Millennial Milliethey're younger girls um they I I could see them being kind of like that um that same thing you're talking about where they're they're playing checkers and they're not thinking things through but I think as women get older and they

Millennial Milliestart to become more mature in business and other different things they can start to see things through but I think you're right in that men do kind of have a Nate um talent for seeing things down but I I wouldn't disregard that there

Andrew Wilsonare women that are capable of some of those things as well especially women that work in intelligence yeah but they're the outliers right it's like everyone always wants to point to the outliers but they are outliers for sure

Kishawell I'm if I could interject I'm sorry go ahead uh I don't actually I'm not actually undermining women's uh capability uh and capacity when I say that they play checkers I'm actually speaking to the greater point of the

Kishaindividuality and the way that God created man and women and the power that women have when they come to understand that they don't think like men and they're not men because then you're able to work most

Kishaefficiently with men and you're able to just do your own like for example I learned this working with my dad the last couple of years I might tell something to my dad like oh dad like this is going to happen like I know for

Kishasure like I can see this coming down the line and he's like okay qua chill and I'm like come on man like I know what I'm talking about and in a couple of weeks it might happen and I tell him like that I told you that was going to happen he's like qua that's cool but I

Kishaneeded to demonstrate every step of the way exactly how this happened the who what when where why how and all you were looking at was the end result and I see a lot of times women we look at the outcome rather than the steps to get

Kishathere and we don't know the steps which is why we're really bad at creating Solutions women just want to feel better men actually want to create the solution to solve the problem so men play chess because they pull the strings on many

Kishasituations and literally create the circumstances for that success in real time and mitigate the problem the consequences of the problem in real time women can not do that I've come across

Kishamultiple women in multiple different areas of life I've never ever seen a woman beat a man at chest and it doesn't matter how smart the woman is or how smart the man is it has nothing to do with IQ it's simply the way that men

Kishathink versus the way women think we're just different and I'm glad we're different because when I see all the things that my father does on a day-to-day basis to work like he gets up he like does his smoothie does his

Kishaworkout he goes works like 16 hours a day day does another like exercise two Bible studies during the day have constant attacks continuously and he's still going like a machine he can do all

Kishaof that but I'm sitting here like okay I need to take a nap you know and I'm not I'm not like dumb in any capacity but it's just sorry sorry it's just the fact that they have that ability to make a lot of things happen regardless of

Andrew Wilsonwhat's going on you're speaking of nature the ontology you're not talking so you're saying by Nature the nature of these things are totally different yeah yeah cuz God created us I mean God

Brian Atlascreated us that way sorry I did not me I accidentally pressed I was just switching the camera angles but I accidentally pressed the button all right yeah well it is true though that men and women think differently I I will

Millennial Milliesay that is true and that they each have their strengths and their weaknesses like one example in really in the roles that I think God wanted us to really

Millennial Millieportray and fulfill in our lives um like even I naturally find it's very easy to multitask as a woman versus my husband he can't you know cook and watch the

Millennial Milliekids and you know clean or do this and do do a million different things at the same time he he has to be able to have quiet and focus on one thing whereas with women we are naturally wired to be

Millennial Millieable to do things and that's because we actually our brains are slightly different and then we have more interconnecting nerves between both sides of our left and right hemisphere of our brain yeah but she's talking about something different she's she's

Andrew Wilsongoing deep than that she's talking about the nature itself from its being its state of being and saying that within men's nature on this planet their nature is to look at a situation and then

Andrew Wilsonthey're mitigating bad outcomes and maximizing good outcomes right and that women are generally not doing that they're just benefiting from the either good outcome or the bad outcome that I think that's what you're getting at

Kisharight yeah like cuz and you mentioned that uh men uh don't multitask I think they do it a different way cuz like I said like watching my dad over the past couple of years lose absolutely

Kishaeverything you know filing things in court doing his engineer mechanical engineering still trying to mitigate my life and my sisters and his and everyone around him and doing everything to help all these different people at the same

Kishatime while maintaining his physical mental and emotional health I think that men um they multitask in a way that's protective in a way that benefits the system as a whole like everything that

Kishathey have to do is not just going to benefit them one like in that moment it's benefiting longterm and like just destroying the attacks in like real time from multiple different angles so I

Kishathink it's we were created to do two different things and they're equally as valuable so women playing checkers is just as valuable as chess but it has to work together in order to to make the

Kishasystem move the way it needs to can can I ask you a personal question sure was your mother in your life it seems like your your dad is like a big hero for you he is my dad is like a g like he's an O

KishaI call him the OG engineer um I do know my mom but I was primarily raised by my father and my grandmother and great-grandmother yeah it's just because like I I wouldn't say I fundamentally

Reneedisagree with with you guys with what you guys are saying but I'm not um I'm atheist or agnostic I'm not practicing of any religion but I grew up in the church for 16 years so my mom made me go every weekend which church Baptist well

Reneewhy are you wearing a cross if you're atheist for fashion and irony I don't know yeah sorry is that Blasphemous but um uh it's kind of like a fashion thing

Reneeright now it's definitely a trend I mean I still grew up in the church I i' still say I'm spiritual but I just I'm not practicing um I don't like follow the gospel like that but so you more so like

Reneebelieve in God and Jesus but just not the church structure no oh no I I just I have a connection to the church and I'd say I have a connection to my spirituality but I don't believe I don't

Reneebelieve that I would know if there was a Creator okay yeah just relativism yeah okay but back to my point what I was saying was like I feel like I do agree but I don't think it's fair to women out

Reneethere especially women who do work to organize their lives around their families cuz I had a single a single mom and the way you describe your dad is reminds me of the way I felt about my mom you know and um although I do think

Reneewomen are more emotional and that like increased emotional response can lead to like playing checkers instead of Chess I think I think maybe when women are able to subtract men from their lives or like

Reneejust like I don't know I I think that there are women out there who who can play life like a chess game or that like I wish I could say that I could you know even though don't you think your mom probably had to lean into her

Aliciamasculinity because she was a single mom oh definitely but I don't see a problem with leaning into your masculinity but I wish I could act like I was for her to make to go to her Point you're saying that you notice some of the things that

Aliciashe's talking about relevant to your relationship and your Dynamic with your mom but she had to take on a masculine role so she she probably had to do some of the things that she's describing her

Aliciafather did correct yeah but she's a woman yes of course I know she's still a woman I'm saying she had to lean into her masculinity in order to probably protect you provide for you and also

Alicianurture you so she had much more to do um but those aspects of protection and provi provision are masculine I think that I I could be then

ReneeI could be leaning into my masculinity more like on Tuesday than I was on Wednesday but like they're both they're just all abstract Concepts and at the end of the day she's a woman and we're making if they're if they're abstract

Andrew WilsonConcepts then why why would you bring them up as being a differential between the two things they're just abstract I they are abstract but what I'm saying is I think it's problematic to yeah but you're a relativist everything's

Reneeabstract that's okay and is it problematic for her to put her father on her pedest it's not problematic for her to put her father on a pedestal I say it's problematic to say that men are always playing chess and women are

Reneealways playing checkers because chess is fundamentally a higher intelligent game is that a truth statement uh no I'd say no so then why should we believe you if it's not a true statement why should you believe me why should we believe what

Millennial Millieyou just said that some women are doing this some men are doing that you just said that it's not a truth statement well if you want talk about is it true or not true it's a logical fallacy to say something is always one way and

Andrew Wilsonnever another way what's that fallacy called it's a trend it called just made it the [ __ ] up fallacy so back to where I was at not called so back to where I was at uh when we're talking about when we're talking about relativism which is what we're talking

Andrew Wilsonabout right now you can't make truth claims relativism is what you're talking about okay I was just talking she was talking about a but it's not when you say she's talking about a stereotyp you say something like I disagree when you

Andrew Wilsonsay something like I disagree with you this is not true this is true you're a moral relativist you don't even believe in a standard for truth you have no standard for truth why would you ever make a claim something is true or not true well you just hate all relativists

ReneeI I was having a conversation I hate is that true is it true that I hate all relativist it might be because you're not a relativ is that true that I might it might be true okay I'm I'm sorry I had a relativist argument but what I was

Reneethe point that I was trying to make was she was the the phrase men are playing chess women women are playing checkers is a a stereotypical phrase and I'm sure

Reneeshe might also concede that there are outliers to that however I'm saying all I'm saying maybe a better way to phrase it as she was saying was it is more

Reneemasculine to play chess as perceived in our society because we have for so long said oh men play chess like yeah like of course ma that's masculine you're becoming more masculine if you're starting to play chess why can't I just say she's becoming more strategical why

Kishacan't I just say can I ask you can I ask you a question yeah um so I have two questions I guess one would would it be as offensive if I in fact said women play

Reneechess and Men play checkers and two um actually you can answer that one first I don't think I don't think it's offensive at all I was just voicing my

Kishaopinion okay but when it come okay so in regards to the initial statement um you you were talking about being raised by a single mother do you think that a man can do the role of a mother do you think

Kishathat's replaceable by a man can your can your father do what a mother does for you um I wouldn't put it I wouldn't put it in personal terms I wouldn't put it in personal

Kishaterms to myself but I think that a man could easily fulfill the role of a single mother I I asked I asked the okay yeah cuz I I wish grid one was my dad

TTS/Donation Voicedonated $200 first girl word of advice stop while you're behind I will only get worse for you from here ladies what are

TTS/Donation Voicetwo deal breaker characteristics in a man also [ __ ] the ATF abolish the NFA yes and I you know what to to give you

Brian Atlascredit it's good that you're at least because I feel like this panel might be leaning a bit more one way than the other so I certainly give you credit for uh being open to uh disagreement on this

Millennial Milliewell just just to kind of play Devil's Advocate here cuz you know I naturally agree more with Kisha but I can see both sides of an argument and what I'll say is that I think what quisha was meaning was generalities like in general men you

Millennial Millieknow think with playing chess and women with Checkers but of course we he already acknowledged over here that there are outliers that there are going to be outliers in that situation so just because the exceptions prove the rule

Millennial Milliethe exception proves the rule you wouldn't have the exception right so we have outliers we have exceptions but so prove what technically her mother might be one of those outliers we don't

Millennial Millieknow but I think that it's she can actually say well I saw my mother fulfilling some of those things I saw that in Ros Cas so maybe she's just one of the outliers yeah you can say that but that's really not in context what

Andrew Wilsonthe discussion is the discussion is in contacts the discussion the discussion isn't asking are there going to be outliers in basically every situation we can think of sure okay sure of course

Andrew Wilsonthere are always going to be some kind of outlier for something but in context what she saying is if you're looking at the nature of men when they look at the world they're playing chess what she she's saying is they organize the world

Andrew Wilsonbased on a strategic mind they're saying everything from how do I want to run the wires for those cameras to how do I want to organize the structures of society and she's saying if you don't follow that pattern and submit to your husband

Andrew Wilsonand allow him to take that role then in Corporate America you're going to have to do it for a psychopath that's her whole point am I wrong no that yes that's exactly it and um I think another

Kishaexample is like um men have told me that when they come up and just have a casual conversation with a woman they can tell what kind of man is in her life and what level of proximity like if she's maybe

Kishadating just by like certain behaviors or things that she says and does women don't read actions the way that men do and I don't care how good they are at it like they just don't read actions the

Kishaway that men do we are so deceived by like what we hear and like it's it's not the same we speak completely different language and the more that you realize that you are completely different

Kishamentally and emotionally from a man the more you have protection against some of the things that happened because as soon as I realized a man which is how you know she was raised by a man if it was a single parent because she's speaking

Kishasense I was going to ask you actually I was like you noticed that I had a uh you asked me immediately okay were were you raised with your mother and probably because you could tell by the way that I'm speaking what's coming out of my

Kishamouth that there's more of a masculine an influence in my life as opposed to a woman's and so it's something that you delineate already in your mind that's completely different to what a woman

Kishawould operate in so it it's just a completely different thing and as soon as I notice that a man is playing chess I instantly defer instantly defer to my father and if I had a husband I'd instantly defer to him because I know

Reneethat I will never win a game of chess against a man I just won't and if I try to as soon as I enter the game I lose that's the part that I find problematic yes the statement overall is true I won't be a relativist I'd say as a

Andrew Wilsongeneralization it can be said as true but the reason I don't like that framing is because a relativist can't say anything's true I I never claimed to be a relativist continue with your point though but just so just so you know in

Reneethe future you did claim you were a relativist okay but that's all agnostic goad with your point though well I mean like it it creates a sense of fear because what if some of the men are stupid trust me there are dumb men out there who are playing checkers you know

Millennial Milliethere yeah that's what's happening now with theconstruction of the family that's the other thing and we see that happening all the time where there are predatory men who are actually targeting young vulnerable women especially women

Millennial Milliewho haven't had fathers in their lives like you they target and pray on the vulnerable women and I think that's what partially what qua is trying to get to here is that if men are thinking like with chess and you're not going to be

Reneeable to figure out if they're trying to prey on you or Target you you become a vulnerable Target when you don't have your father in your life but you don't believe that you can play chess too wait can I can I ask you something and you don't believe that they can be playing checkers can I ask you something though

Kishayeah do you would you like a relationship with a man who completely take care of you protect for you provide for you stand by you be loyal um have kids with you and you could trust that

Kishahe's there 100% Shane donated $200 third girl huge Pik me do you want to address the Pik me accusations yes pick me because like what the heck why

Kishawould I why would I want to be why would I like why would I want to be in the position to do any of this by myself like the amount of things that women are put up to do that they literally cannot handle doing is literally the reason for

Kishathe destruction of our society right now because men are not being able not being respected in their position as men and fathers and women are taking control and also being told that they can actually do it and then failing a lot of that is

Faithbecause a lot of men aren't present in the childhood Tak and that's you know that's what's happening is is there's just the women are trying to control and you know they don't understand and appreciate what the men what the men do

Brian Atlasbecause they don't they never had an example of that what quick really quick uh GD uh I wish grid one we will ask your question here I'm just letting this conversation

Andrew Wilsonfinish up I will ask the two deal breaker questions what other choice do they have that's strange could you go work on an oil rig tomorrow um I could if I wanted to oh so are you saying that you have all the choices that men have right this second

Reneeyeah okay then what are you talking what are you talking I don't have all the choices men have right this second oh what choices don't you have a a lot

Andrew Wilsonwhat I I can't be as um condescending as you well that's because you just have not acquired the skill of knowledge which is a prerequisite it's because Society thinks I play checkers and you play

Reneechess even if I try to be on the same level as you oh I'm already rela hey great snark but can you answer the question what choices do I have you not have if if there's no man in my life not have that men have okay what choice do I

Reneenot have that men have when I wake up in the morning um I cannot walk around with my shirt off I know that's a stupid lame one but I don't know how many you want

Reneeyou can walk around with your shirt off okay well public social outrage yeah you know yeah what what choices do you have or do you not have well this isn't

Andrew Wilsonrelevant to exactly irrelevant they wereing can you guys you said it's because women I I'll repeat it for you okay you said it's because women have not had the choices that men have had that that yes is they were saying that

Reneeum a woman is trying to be act as a man in their life because there was no man in their childhood and I said what other choice does she have okay so just just so that we're clear you do think from an

Andrew Wilsonegalitarian lens then men and women have the same amount of equal choice no okay well then what choices do women not have that men have there's a lot it would be hard for me to delineate them all for

Reneeyou do they're you should name one that doesn't mean they're not there it's not it's not going to be good enough for you but sure let me think of some of the things I could probably not go work um a

Andrew WilsonContracting job why cuz I'm physically weaker okay so biological that's not that has nothing to do with law fair though with what with law so it has nothing to do with the law you could go work as a contractor there's nothing

Reneebaring saying um women who grow up without male figures typically fail because they're trying to take on these masculine roles which they are not capable of taking on what is your question that is challenging my question

Millennial Millieto you just now was do you believe in this egalitarian society that men and women have equal choice you said no yes that's why the women are failing we're not saying they're failing what we're saying is is that women who grow up

Millennial Milliewithout fathers in their home they're made more vulnerable because men who are thinking on the level of Chess who might actually not be a good man who might be a predatory man those men see you as an

Millennial Millieeasy target a vulnerable person that they can take advantage of see if you're you know if your father's in the home your father can say that's not a good guy don't date him I I see the red flags

Millennial Milliedon't even bother or the father can set a standard when that man is coming to pick you up for a date you're going to have my daughter home at this time no no nothing funny or you're going to deal with me and you're going to answer to me

Millennial Millieso what we're getting at is the women who don't grow up with fathers it's not that you're failing it's it's more or less that you're you have to mascul what you're saying right that's what she was saying no we're not saying you have to masculine eyes we're we're we're talking

Aliciaabout how you're you're being made vulnerable because you don't have a father figure in your home but aren't men also male children are also made vulnerable if they don't have the father in The Home absolutely and for them it's it's a different thing they don't it

Millennial Milliedoesn't tend to go in the form of being taken advantage of sexually it usually has to go in the form of more likely to be imprisoned or in jail or having drugs advantage of sexually though I would say

Kishathat there's a lot of little boys that are being taken advantage sexually because they don't have fathers and maybe like by women by men and women like i' the public school system is one

Andrew Wilsonof the worst wom areys all the time for instance if you were to take you know you hear the old Trope uh you know the Catholic priests do all the uh you know the the the kid diddling but

Andrew Wilsonit's actually if you if you look at the public schools teachers do way more than priest ever dreamed of and if you look at the female population Public School especially uh it's it's an outrageous amount compared to the rest of the the

Andrew Wilsongeneral population so and yes of course if there's no strong dominant male in the home those kids would be much more prone right to falling into that no no you're right I I would say you're right

Millennial Millielike overall a male not being in the home is at the detriment to both children male or female children overall and there are different ways I think that it kind of surfaces let me take it

Andrew Wilsona step further and say less detrimental right if a woman isn't if the mother isn't if a mother less detrimental isn't what present in the home you need both and it's best to have both statistically speaking but I think that it's less

Kishadetrimental to have a single father raising kids than a single mother statistically it shows that like if a a child has both parents assuming that they're good they have the best chances for success and then if they have a

Kishasingle father they have almost equal chances I think up to 90 something per chance of success and then if it's a single mother I think it plummets like 80 negative 80 something per. that's the stepdad effect

Andrew Wilsonso the stepdad effects often that's where the abuse inside of homes comes from is from a step parent far less likely to see the step parent who's a female come in and enter abuse because well it's really hard to do that to a

Andrew Wilsonmale right they can step in and be like no you ain't doing [ __ ] or else so that's the uh that's the effect and that's why you see that over and over again play out in society that's why

Faithsingle single fathers tend to have better overall overarching outcomes than single mothers too yeah I just wanted to I also just wanted to add so there was a point where I was really I was I was

Faithvery like New Wave feminist and I really resented men and masculinity you know um I was with the whole thing and um I was

Faithso much more unhappy and um just because I was having what turned it around God honestly the the patriarchy yes as my

Faithfriend One Motorsports would say the patriarchy is here for you yes I you know and just and and accepting and also humbling myself to accept the input of of others and whatnot and not rebelling

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