WALK OFF?! Andrew Wilson vs. RAGING Feminist?! BOW Video 2.0?! She TESTED Him?! | Dating Talk #202

Date: 2024-10-07

Duration: 7h 54m

Guests

Brian Atlas

AAndrew Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00TTS/Chat(audience)

SPEAKER_02Rachel(guest)

SPEAKER_03Elby(guest)

SPEAKER_04Emma(guest)

SPEAKER_05Arina/Bianca (mixed)(guest)

SPEAKER_06Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_11Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_12TTS/Chat(audience)

SPEAKER_13Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)(guest)

SPEAKER_14Irene(guest)

Key Moments

IntroFull guest introduction round: Arina, Rachel, Bianca, Elby, Emma, Morgan, Ana, Brian Atlas, Andrew Wilson.

“hi my name is Arina ... my name is Andrew Wilson I'm the host of The Crucible”

OtherArina reveals she loyalty-tested a new boyfriend one week after he asked her to be his girlfriend. DMd 20 women from his following list; he agreed to fly them out. He broke up with her when he found out, citing health issues and family problems.

“I got to I got to ask ... I DM'd 20 girls from his following list”

Key MomentSelf-ratings round. Guests rate looks 1-10 (no 7). Arina=8, next guests=6.5. Andrew Wilson jokes he is a 10. Discussion of whether women peak in attractiveness with age.

“ask everyone to rate their looks on a scale of one to 10 you can't pick seven ... probably eight ... 6 and a half”

ControversyBOW video 2.0 shown. Brian asks if women would bow for their partner. Panel largely refuses. Andrew points out contradiction: women perform sexual acts for near-strangers but won't bow for a committed partner.

“boom huge bow huge bow ... the same woman that says I would never bow for a man will suck a guy's dick within 30 minutes of meeting him”

ControversyAndrew Wilson debates Irene on whether tarot cards are compatible with Christianity, citing Leviticus 19:26 and 20:27. Irene defends her practice as a personal spiritual gift and says she is still rediscovering her faith.

“Leviticus 1926 do not practice divination or seek Omens ... you're doing both divination and seeking omens”

ControversyAndrew Wilson argues women's suffrage destroyed the United States by shifting voting patterns toward security/risk-aversion over freedom. Claims men-only voting would have produced better outcomes.

“women's suffrage absolutely destroyed the United States of America”

OtherBrian mentions at end of show that a girl walked off during the stream; plans to post behind-the-scenes footage in Discord. Walkoff not captured clearly in main transcript — referenced only in closing segment.

“BTS maybe we'll post the BTS of that girl who walked off”

OtherBrian announces fundraiser for Mason, a former guest in a severe motorcycle accident with 10% survival odds. $3,400 raised via GiveSendGo; Brian personally donated $1,500.

“he was in a severe motorcycle accident ... 10% chance of survival ... we were able to raise $3,400”

Topics Discussed

Guest introductions and relationship status round

Guests introduce themselves: Arina (20, CSUF), Rachel (39, Vancouver server), Bianca (22, care provider), Elby (22, UCI pre-optometry), Emma (22, communications), Morgan (18, SBCC soccer), Ana (19, UCSB). Andrew Wilson introduced as co-host. Each guest shares relationship history.

Loyalty testing / Arina's boyfriend loyalty test story

Arina describes loyalty-testing a new boyfriend by DMing 20 women from his following list after one date. He failed by agreeing to fly girls out. Panel debates whether loyalty testing is justified. Andrew Wilson frames it as a crystal-ball thought experiment about foreknowledge.

Paternity tests and trust in relationships

Brian asks whether panelists would agree to a paternity test if requested by a husband. Majority say they would but would be hurt by the lack of trust.

Female submission and masculinity in relationships

Andrew Wilson argues optimal relationships have women deferring to men. Discussion of empathy, narcissism, masculinity. Andrew argues men are biologically designed for low empathy. Irene defends balance and Christian ethics of submission.

Self-ratings round (looks 1-10)

Guests rate their own looks 1-10 (no 7). Ratings extracted: Arina=8, Rachel/Bianca unclear, Elby ~6.5, Emma ~6.5, Morgan unknown. Brian passes. Andrew jokes he is a 10. Discussion follows about whether women get better-looking with age.

Aging / do women peak discussion

Brian asks if guests will be more attractive in 10/20/30/40 years. Arina claims she will keep improving until death. Andrew and Brian rebut with the concept of aging market value. Discord members use an aging AI filter on two of the guests.

Romance declining / chivalry

Panel discusses whether romance and chivalry are declining. Consensus is yes; causes attributed to hookup culture, social media, feminism, and Trudeau (Rachel).

BOW Video 2.0 — would women bow for their man

Brian shows a viral 'BOW video' of a woman bowing when her boyfriend arrives. Panelists asked if they would bow. Most refuse. Irene (SPEAKER_14) refuses citing it is not her culture (uses bow for elders). Brian and Andrew point out the contradiction: women will perform sexual acts for near-strangers but refuse a bow for a committed partner.

Christian faith and tarot cards — Irene debate with Andrew

Andrew challenges Irene's claim of being Christian while practicing tarot cards, citing Leviticus 19:26 and 20:27 (divination/necromancy). Irene argues she is still rediscovering her faith and believes she has a gift from God. Andrew argues she suffers from confirmation bias.

Women working vs. staying home / gender roles

Andrew argues most women would choose not to work given the option, and smart women should raise children rather than waste intelligence in corporate jobs. SPEAKER_13 (career-focused guest) pushes back, saying she wants to be a lawyer and always work.

Andrew Wilson debate: women's suffrage and voting patterns

Andrew argues women's suffrage destroyed the US by causing risk-averse voting patterns that impede freedoms. Claims men voting alone would have resulted in better outcomes.

Dating market hypergamy and internet's effect on dating

Andrew walks through hypergamy argument: internet opened global dating pool, women now compete for top 5-10% of men, men receive few DMs while women receive thousands. Both agree internet destroyed localized dating. DM count comparison around panel.

Body count discussion

Brian asks if men are insecure for caring about body count. Rachel says yes; others say no. Brief panel discussion on whether body count matters in relationships.

Closing segment: pickup lines, Discord aging photos reveal, final bow

Panel shares best pickup lines. Discord reveals AI-aged photos of two guests. Brian asks for final bow volunteers; one guest agrees. Brian mentions a fundraiser for 'Mason' (previous guest in a severe motorcycle accident, 10% survival chance, currently in hospital, $3,400 raised).

Transcript

Page 7 of 9

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)to supersede men in men are going to supersede women when it comes to force but you deserve the privilege and not the men yeah that makes what I'm saying that women who do prefer equality there's a reason why they prefer that because they understand that their value

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)is in different areas of life of life other than reproductive situations you know what I mean so yeah but you're not really answering to the question so you

Andrew Wilsonso so I asked you this question if men are the ones who are tasked to defend the nation and they're the ones who are going to be tasked to do the the Force jobs which their task to do MH um why is

Andrew Wilsonit they don't deserve additional privilege your response to this was to say well that may be so that men are equipped to do those Force jobs but this does not mean that women could not excel

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)in other jobs that men can't my my ask of you was well what your answer is there aren't any there I don't know like I don't have

Andrew Wilsonstatistics of which gender does better which type of a job I can tell you which ones there there's more women in than men and which ones there's more men in than women but even that wouldn't answer

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)the question of which jobs women specifically are going to do better than men well actually well that's just an example about one of the societies but

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)in Malaysia there's actually a lot more women in computer science fields because they value their intellect and and that's considered more of a feminine that doesn't mean that they're better at it we're going to so so without

Andrew Wilsonequivocation men are better soldiers than women yes yes majority yes yes what job are women better at than

Andrew Wilsonmen I would say like a lot of um social work perhaps they're not what Which social work are they better at not that there're more of them but they're better at

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)it like psychiatrist psych everything that involves a lot of mental how are women and what makes women better at being psychiatrists than men well because they're more I feel like if

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)you're entering such a field you have to be able to be more empathetic and we all agree that women are more empathetic and you also need to be very logical and we agreed that men are more logical yes but

Andrew Wilsonif you're I don't I don't see I don't see how a man would not be just as good as a woman inside of the field of psychology nor psychiatry in fact I think Psychiatry wise there's actually

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)more men in that field I think there's more women in the field of psychology like I said I don't have the exact statistics and I'm not saying uh women would necessarily be better but

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)from a physical standpoint the only thing is that me I know for a fact that men fight better I mean we all know that right but I don't think that you can pinpoint on other specific jobs and say

Andrew Wilsonone is better than the other I agree age so if that is so if that is the case I would just agree with you right I would just say you're right I don't think in in many of the well I think that there's some jobs we could say men are going to

Andrew Wilsonbe better at it right so for instance I think men in general are going to be better at underwater welding I think they're going to be better at construction at concrete laying I think they're going to be better at Roofing I

Andrew Wilsonthink that they're going to be better at an innumerable amount of jobs which require physical strength however I don't I can't think of a single job which requires less physical strength

Irenethat men are going to be worse at than women I can't think of one can you I would no go ahead I wouldn't say that

Irenethese jobs women are better than men at but some examples could be things like fashion design or art or you mean you

Andrew Wilsonmean hang on you mean the job that gay men have and that's how you get all of the fashion of the world is invented by

Andrew Wilsonmen for women specifically gay men gay men are killing it okay so another example that I thought of is you don't have to agree with this by way this is

Andrew Wilsonthe case with makeup this is the case with fashion this is the case with uh including uh lifestyle all of that that's all invented by men that's all done by men the gays are doing a great

Irenejob so some jobs that I thought of are caretaking nursing you don't not I'm not laughing at you hang hangang let me go through them one

Andrew Wilsonat a time okay let's take nursing nurses right now are on the in this is globally not just here hospitals are desperate to have male nurses because women do not

Andrew Wilsonhave the physical strength to move patients they're desperate to get more male nurses in the United States there has been many many such uh programs to

Andrew Wilsondestigmatize the gender distinction in nursing so that men don't feel like they have to feel bad by going into nursing because that's how desperate nursing

Andrew Wilsonstations are to have men nobody would ever make the claim that female nurses are better than male nurses only that there's more female nurses than male nurses so how how about patients who are

Andrew Wilsondealing with dementia and Alzheimer's and things of that nature and can you tell me what women are uniquely equipped to deal with when it comes to that that men are or not in my opinion yes if we're going by the traditional rules

Irenethat women and men represent I do feel that women are more empathetic and more nurturing and receptive I patient is going to forget all about that right not

Andrew Wilsonreally I was Jo it's a joke it's a joke but uh even if that's the case that women are more empathetic than men in all of those situations you would still

Andrew Wilsonneed logic reason all of those other things which you think that uh men have kind of well not the mon but they're better at there's no way you could never give me a trait set of why women would

Andrew Wilsonbe better at taking care of dementia patients than men without me being able to give you a trait set back to say okay but this is why men would be better at it than women there are many jobs that

Ireneneed Effectiveness and you know logic and reasoning but there are also jobs that exist that need that more patient and understanding kind of quality and I do feel that women teaching nursing

Andrew Wilsonteaching teaching teaching doesn't require logic and reason I would say teaching out of all the jobs you could think of requires logic and reason above

Ireneeverything else otherwise how do you teach them anything in my personal experience um maybe from kindergarten to I guess like Middle School it was mainly

Andrew Wilsonmore female teachers or at least like male teachers that EMB that femin energ fale teachers but understand the trait of empathy for teaching why that's more

Irenevaluable than logic and reason can you explain that to me I think that empathy go hand inand with passion and with logic and reasoning you don't really need passion for whatever you're doing

Andrew Wilsonand if you don't have passion for your job that can also be I guess transferred onto the students that you're teaching and there's no Effectiveness in teaching them either but you can be passionate and very logical and reasonable this has

Andrew Wilsonnothing to do with empathy you can be very passionate without having empathy for other people you be you could be like a passionate serial killer passionate about what you're doing but that doesn't mean you have any empathy I

Andrew Wilsondon't understand though if you're going to teach people how to do X thing isn't logic and reason like the the the thing you want above all other things like I

Andrew Wilsoncan't think of a more important trait I'm not saying you don't need empathy I'm not saying you don't need to have these other things I'm just saying wouldn't we value the logic and reason portion of teaching above everything

Irenewhen it came to teaching well I feel that I learned best this is me personally when a teacher was more passionate about their job and they're not telling us to open our books

Ireneto like page 91 logic like it has to be a mixture of both but that is just my opinion I do feel that how did a teacher teach you without logic I'm not saying they didn't use logic but I'm saying how

Andrew Wilsonhow does somebody like empathetically teach you math like I'm trying to think about it right how would one go about empathetically figuring out how to teach

Irenea person mathematics trying to think like how I can make you feel the math how can I make you feel the math empathy is about being able to place yourself in other people's shoes so if there there

Irenestudents struggling with learning something you would at least be able to you would at least need the empathy to at least be patient with them and to understand the progress that they're making yeah but how would you make them

Andrew Wilsonfeel the math I never said that they were making yeah how so how would you go about teaching it so you tell me real quick let's let's pretend for a second that I'm um oh I don't know first grader

Ireneand you're trying to teach me 1 plus one what would be your first step to teaching me one plus one so for me is it just one student

Andrew Wilsonthat I'm teaching or is it a whole class just one student yeah and what is their I guess like capacity of they have a normal capacity of a first grade or whatever that is

TTS/Chatokay big SAS energy donated $99 blows my mind that people think empathy is an overwhelming need in taking care of people that are out of

Andrew Wilsontheir mind affirming mental illness is not care it's the opposite yeah I tend to agree with that but I'm going to leave that aside for right now big sass I think that that's a good point though but if if you're teaching a student 1

Ireneplus one what do you think step one would be and that's why I did mention more other careers out outside of math like I feel like you're using math let's start with that let's start with it CU

Andrew Wilsonyou you doesn't really history you're trying to teach me the Battle of the Bulge what's step one so for me I'm talking about careers or teaching when

Andrew Wilsonit involves like Arts Fine Arts I feel like when you use science or history or things that se education what would be step one for sex education what would you say for that

Andrew Wilsonhow about physical education like I can't actually think of anything in regards to teaching where you wouldn't value reason and logic above above everything

Andrew Wilsonelse like I really can't and I'm willing to give you the floor to demonstrate to me that I'm incorrect by just telling me any sub pick any teaching subject you

Andrew Wilsoncan possibly think of and tell me what step one to it would be well English

Ireneand would be for example like there are different English classes I just recently took literary device for like poetry and you would need to feel that and be passionate about what and be able

Andrew Wilsonto understand poetry you're passionate about poetry what's step one to teaching me poetry what would be the first thing you would do I would first preface by saying that there's no wrong answers in

Irenepoetry okay there's no wrong answers in poetry what next I would allow my students to kind of first

Irenelike read through a poem and be able to like freely think and express what they truly feel from the poem and then based off that we would have a discussion I don't understand teacher Edgar Allen

Andrew WilsonPo's poem here what does the Beating Heart

Brian Atlasrepresent what do you think it represents now we're in logic and reason you can definitely up a ha coup I'm just

Brian Atlassaying like you can you can definitely up a a Hau you can even up a soliloquy like that that's really easy to you ever up a soliloquy

Brian Atlasthat panamic what's that one the panamic

Andrew WilsonTamer wait what is Ana what is it the P pamic panamic Dam daminer Ryan my audio is a bit scuffed I'm going to jump and

Brian Atlascome right back in yeah no worries no worries well while he does that guys TTS is $69 if you guys want to get it in you can go to twitch.tv/ whatever drop us a follow and a prime sub if you have one

Brian Atlastwitch.tv/ Whatever drop us a follow we have to do a couple reacts too uh you can also like the video guys guys like the video if you're watching on YouTube hit that like button there we boy that's

Brian Atlasbetter we got twitch twitch.tv whatever there it is there it is guys guys it's been it's been a minute since

Brian Atlaswe last had a prime can I think I think it's probably bugged if somebody can probably bugged help help I guess

Brian Atlasall right um and then yeah that's pretty much it all right like the video cool uh yo Brian thank you for the membership appreciate it bro $69 TTS got a couple things we need to get through so um here

Brian Atlaslet me get through try to get through a bunch of this as quick as possible let's do the dating app or actually it's just photos right yeah it's just photos let's just say save I do we save time and just

Brian Atlasskip it we can so sorry they can I mean we saw like old you and young you so it's pretty much the same uh okay and then we we need to

Production crewdo I'm just going to save what are the can you tell me what the reacts are Austin yeah it's just like the Inside Edition thing and then there's it's the one and

Brian Atlasthen there's there's a Tik Tok Tik Tok or we we don't need the Tik Tok and what's the other one sorry guys one

Brian Atlasmoment we have the and then cat calls turn and Tik to and that's it okay yeah we'll save those for another day just cuz we're limited on time uh here couple rapid fire

Irenequestions going around the table uh do you consider yourself a feminist no no no nay I was actually just can I just ask

Brian Atlasyou a quick question what do you define as feminism um can you guys hide that while until you get it fixed um

Brian Atlasit's a good question I mean there's a couple different definitions so there's my charitable definition well well hang on we would ask you first what would you define as a

Irenefeminist well feminism is about wanting equal rights between men and women right okay so yes is that is that how you would Define it yes equal equality

Brian Atlasbetween men and women um so I suppose I'll give you here Austin can you just take over I'm just um so

Brian Atlasokay charitable definition feminism is woman's advocacy that's the most charitable definition I would ever give it it's never been about equality this is just factually true

Brian Atlasfeminists don't care about equality there's nothing wrong with women's advocacy but to parade feminism as equal an equality movement is

Brian Atlaslaughable nothing wrong with women advocacy but let's not pretend like feminists really give a about

Brian Atlasequality uh the actual definition of it is I think it's woman's advocacy

Brian Atlasplus a man-hating ideology that's my that's what I think it is I see okay

Ireneso what what do you mean by charitable definition so charitable would be the the the nicest I see okay but wouldn't

Brian Atlasyou say that that's a definition when it comes to radical feminists instead of like genuine feminism well I can ask you a couple questions to clarify this do they uh is patriarchy Theory a core

Brian Atlastenant of feminism even normal mainstream feminism can you ask one more time is

Brian Atlaspatriarchy a core tenant of mainstream feminism C tenant no that there is a patriarchy

Brian Atlasyes I think what I think you need to explain what's the what's a c Cen or whatever you said tenant like it's a core belief of

Brian Atlasthe ideology okay that's I don't think she understood that thank you um yes okay and this ideology ideology teaches primarily women

Brian Atlaswhat that misogyny is ingrained within Society I guess okay now let me ask you a couple questions do you think that the

Brian Atlaspatriarchy has to do with an oppress oppressor oppressed narrative so women are oppressed correct I don't agree with that though it's just you don't think okay do you

Brian Atlasthink women were oppressed historically then yes mhm but they're no longer oppressed in any capacity to this day in my opinion no not in this country mhm okay that's fair uh but you do think

Brian Atlasthey were oppressed historically yes okay and so but you're but you believe there's a patriarchy is this does this patriarchy

Irenehave a tendency to oppress women so for me I just I I personally believe and according to like the definition of feminism that it's just about advocating

Brian Atlasfor women's rights when there is some sort of inequality and so I don't think there's anything wrong with that but I do feel like but it's not an equality movement you said it's advocating for

Irenewomen's rights mhm but I just feel like what you're defining is only going after I guess the like stereotypical feminist who's very radical in their beliefs well is The

Brian AtlasStereotype wrong if let me ask you a question so every single University in this country College whatever every single one has a feminist study gender study

Brian Atlaswomen studies program right uh if you take feminism 101 or whatever the intro introduction to feminism the lecture whatever it is do

Brian Atlasthey teach you about patriarchy and female oppression I'm sure they do yeah and so it sets up an oppressor oppressed narrative and it pits the Sexes against

Brian Atlaseach other if you teach swaths of young women that men are to blame for everything it's men who are the oppressors and women are the oppressed and women

Brian Atlascollectively are oppressed and Men collectively are the oppressors are women supposed to feel positive or think positive things towards the oppressor class no I don't

Brian Atlasthink that's the objective though with true but if you take any feminism class the words patriarchy oppression

Brian Atlasoppressed oppressor are going to come up under feminism who is the oppressor men who's the oppressor is it men well

Brian Atlasaccording to them I guess according to feminist Theory men are the oppressors right and who are the oppressed women ah do the oppressed get to have contempt for the

Brian Atlasoppressor yes do the oppressed have to overcome the oppressor do the oppressed have to defeat or in

Brian Atlassome way uh I think defeat fine defeat or tear down the oppressor so this is a narrative that is

Brian Atlastaught to taught to vast swaths of women and it teaches women to hate men and have contempt for men and view men as

Brian Atlashaving historically put on some some sort of uh injury y onto women women have a historical and even current day

Brian Atlasgrievance a significant grievance men as or women as a group towards men as a group so I think that this would teach

Brian Atlaswomen to either have bias on on the low-end bias or bigotry against men or on perhaps the more extreme end have contempt or hatred towards men so that's

Irenewhy that's my sense of what feminism is okay I didn't know what we were agreeing to was your definition of feminism rather than but I just walked you through it and you you agreed with me on

Andrew Wilsonall these things when it comes to the op pressor oppress Dynamic mhm right so well and I think it's it's fine to say um it like if you if you have a

Andrew Wilsondifferent definition or what you think feminism is as opposed to what Brian just said I think it's fine for you to tell us what that is

IreneI mean for me I do believe feminism is about advocating like you mentioned more for any like inequalities or even

Irenelike advocating for women because of just almost like lifting up the women empowerment movement in a sense and that

Irenedoesn't have to come at the demise of men but that is only when it happens in a more radical I guess violent way that maybe stereotypical feminists

Andrew Wilsondo it literally sounded to me like you just dis you just kind of agreed with Brian's definition of feminism to be honest with you the only like kind of caveat that you threw in there was they

Andrew Wilsondon't have to be violent to overthrow the oppressor but Brian never included that in his definition he just said if there's an oppressed group it is the press group's duty to throw off the

Ireneoppressor it sounds like you kind of agree with that right I just don't think there's anything wrong with um I

Ireneguess like I almost feel like the feminism is when you acknowledge your role as a woman a female within society and being able to uplift other women in

Andrew Wilsonthat manner and I guess like advocating for any inequalities if they find some um but I don't think there's anything wrong with that well hold on okay well I think I think that's fair too I just

Andrew Wilsonasked this one question you think that female advocacy is perfectly acceptable right M okay so when men advocate for men is that also

TTS/Chatperfectly acceptable I I 69 you donated $69 feminism I follow other war and because they give me power power from

TTS/Chatthe oppression that doesn't exist but because the media keeps telling me that it does exist I'm going to keep yelling about it uh warlord thank you very much man appreciate it yeah it's very kind of you

Andrew Wilsonto send in the uh the dollars there um yeah so so just kind of quickly back to this uh you think it's okay for men to advocate for men too right a

Andrew Wilsonth% so what happens when women advocate for women and men advocate for men and we come to different conclusions as to how each should be treated so I'm almost

Irenethinking of the example of when men are able to recognize that Society makx it so that they're supposed to repress during emotions and that's why there's

Irenesuch a high um un alive rate with men and when men choose to speak out about that well hang on I I want to correct something very quickly um actually men

Andrew Wilsonand women try attempt to un alive themselves at about the same rate it's just that men are way better at it so they take they take the final solution

Andrew Wilsonthey grab the pistol and women take pills and like that but men men just happen to be far better at doing so if a woman says I want to be un alive today and a man says I want to be un

Irenealive today they do try to off themselves at the same rates roughly the same I mean it's very close um it's just that men get the job done right but that's not that doesn't really have

Ireneanything to do with what I was going to say is that when men are able to recognize the I guess the reality of between man to man what they go through um in their day-to-day life because of them being a

Ireneman I don't think there's anything wrong with advocating for one another yeah sure but what if they say okay well the reason we're going through all this is because those women suck but that's why I also said that I don't believe that it's all people who are

Brian Atlasthat radical when it comes to feminism and I wouldn't agree with but it's it's mainstream feminism it's mainstream feminism you go to any University you take an intro to feminism class they're going to teach

Brian Atlasyou patriarchy Theory they're going to teach you the oppressor oppressed dynamic between men and women and they're going to say men are the oppressors and women are the oppressed there are still feminists who

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)are actually you know like thinking how she defined it I understand that which is what that you know just advocating for women's rights in the same way men should probably do that too but what I'm

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)advocate for women's rights for men's rights oh okay sure but the thing is that I think we both agree that there's fundamental issues in the mainstream feminism like you mentioned and there

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)are some things that need to be changed because the matter of a fact is right now it's not a patriarchy anymore so there is some things that need to be changed I Al almost think that feminists need to heal from the fact that we got

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)out of this hole you know now it's more equal so it's the most equal it's ever been exactly so there are some issues but as an idea of equality that's why I

Brian Atlasthat's what you meant like that's why well I mean my push back there just one little nitpick is when feminists say feminisms about equality and I say the most charitable definition is it's a

Brian Atlaswoman's advocacy movement if there's a form of equality where women don't stand to benefit or it comes to women's detriment but it's

Brian Atlasequality feminists won't fight for it women won't fight for it so you're not femin ism is not an equality movement and this is just I mean the perfect example is just forced

Brian Atlasmilitary conscription we've had over a hundred years of women being able to vote for men to be able to vote we have to be subject to forc military conscription we got to register with the

Brian AtlasSelective Service 100 years women are not feminists are not saying equalize forced military conscription and in that

Brian Atlastime period we've had numerous World War World War II Korean War Vietnam war men were drafted in these Wars men would still be alive had they not been

Brian Atlasdrafted there are men who are still alive who were drafted who have terrible injuries I'm talking specifically about Vietnam who are still alive who've got

Brian AtlasPTSD all this kind of stuff and so I don't really think feminists are like striving for equality you're striving to secure female

Brian Atlasbenefits and if that means fighting for equality and that that gets women benefits they'll do it but you'll never fight for equality if it could con

Brian Atlasconceivably come to the detriment of women and I don't think you can actually make an argument against that because a glaring example is forced military

Brian Atlasconscription I think it would being drafted for anybody is a detriment to one's life if you're drafted into the military I think it's hard to argue that it's

Brian Atlasit's not a detriment it would be a detriment to women if they were subject to military conscription and all the negative ramifications that come with either being drafted or if you don't register

Brian Atlasfor the Selective Service there's various uh uh issues that can arise there but where the feminists in the

Irenestreets like oh I want to be drafted they ain't fine for it it's not an equality

Irenemovement okay so then when you said the charitable definition was women's advoc aissy then um putting that aside like the equality or fighting for

Ireneequality um wouldn't that just be like more of a movement to empower other women so I don't sure so maybe then sure but it's you can't parade it around as

Andrew Wilsonan equality movement when it's not okay then I I mean I can agree with that okay sure so well I have um I have a a very quick question I'd like to ask everybody in the panel get everybody to

Brian Atlasparticipate of why we're on the topic of feminism um wait Andrew I apologize I yeah not she was in the middle of something I do just want to give her an

Brian Atlasopportunity just to finish it but then we we'll we'll uh ask her a question go ahead if you forgot you're in the middle of something if you forgot it's I kind of

Andrew Wilsonjust forgot it's okay all right go ahead Andrew yeah I'm I'm sorry I didn't I didn't mean to jump in there um I I thought the exchange was done um so just

Andrew Wilsonjust very briefly I would like to to kind of tell you guys a few things you are aware that women couldn't have credit cards until very

Andrew Wilsonrecently and uh they couldn't have bank accounts right this is a this is fairly recent did you guys know that women couldn't have those things do you mind

Andrew Wilsontell me how recent yeah well actually I'm going to pull up the exact date just so you have it

Andrew Wilsonum so I think I think that this was let's see yeah 1974 looks like so

Andrew Wilson1974 before they could have credit cards right do you that seems pretty unfair right they couldn't even have them right or bank accounts things like that that

Andrew Wilsonseems pretty do do you guys agree that that's fundamentally unfair yeah yeah okay I would like to ask you this question though in the

Andrew Wilson1950s when women couldn't have these things can I get a show of hands of the women here who think that relationships right now in the year 20124 are more stable and better than they were in the 1950s just by a show of hand

Andrew Wilsoncan I get a show of hands of the women who think that the relationships in the year 2024 are more unstable than they were in the 1950s unstable unstable unstable yeah

Andrew Wilsonit's more I'm pretty sure they are so just nobody else has an opinion do you think that the relationships in the year

Andrew Wilson1950 were more or less stable than they are now by a show of hands said more stable yeah do you think that

Andrew Wilsonthey were more stable in the 1950s yes yes than they are right now and do you think in the year 2024 that relationships are less stable than they

Andrew Wilsonwere in the 1950s yes so can you explain can any of you explain to me why it could why it would be in a million years that even though women were suffering

Andrew Wilsonunder this type of horrific oppression that relationships were better under that ression than they are right now when women are the most liberated they've ever

Andrew Wilsonbeen well stability can mean a lot of things it can be stab bad you can because they didn't do you think that they were stably bad or do you think that the relationships were better when you talk to your grandparents do they

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)tell you how horrible things were they tell you things were better you tell me um honestly like I had a lot of mixed opinions on that like yeah they mostly say it was better right they mostly say

Andrew Wilsonit was better most of the time you talk to people people who are older than you especially significantly older than you I can tell you right now the '90s were better the 9s were better than the year 2024 I promise you they were better in

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)every conceivable way I can think of it's not Nostalgia they were better but I think that has to do something with also like I mentioned before with social media and people feeling like they have to put up a face and all that stuff

Andrew Wilsonthat's my opinion on yes not just okay well wait wait wait a second that's really weird because the internet

Andrew Wilsonis a recent invention this is not an old invention people don't you think people in the so let me ask you this 19 the year is

Andrew Wilson1980 there is no internet there's no internet in the Year 1980 do you think relationships were better or worse better

Andrew Wilsonbetter they're better right well they were more so now yeah so now so now moving forward right you you hit the you hit the internet age you think that the

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)internet age is what destroyed everything I think so I think well I don't think it's the the only reason but there's a big influence in that 100% yeah what is it like I said what is the

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)thing about social media that destroyed everything between men and women because people like when like it's e boys probably did it people people try to portray themselves as someone they're

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)not in social media everyone's are constantly trying to one up each other there's no authentic connections anymore definitely twerking did it dating apps are way more superficially based there's

Andrew Wilsona lot of reasons can I have one yeah yeah so what's the number one reason that you think things were better back then I Al I also and by the way the reason I brought

Andrew Wilsonthis example up is because in the Year 1980 women had those equalities right they had those equalities and yet you still say that the relationship were better even then so are we pinpointing

Irenethis on the internet and what is the thing about the internet that has messed relationships up there's more easy access to more people because of the internet so therefore you're looking at more people than they did back then

Irenewhere back then they actually believed in true love I guess and now it's kind of way more accessible and so therefore that traditional marriage or traditional

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)Kind of Love is dying out yeah people see that they have more options now even if that's not the case they're like oh there's this guy or this girl and there's this yeah

Andrew Wilsonmhm okay so you think that the entirety of relationship Dynamics have been destroyed not because of the feminist

Andrew Wilsonmove for women to become empowered snobs but rather be because women have more choices in

Irenemen and so what they're going for or a select group of men I think men also have those choices as well and maybe I can consider no men don't have those choices it's still more easily

Andrew Wilsonaccessible for men with the no it's not more easily accessible for men it was way more easy so here I can demonstrate this for you if you were localized and

Andrew Wilsonthere was only 50 women who were in your community versus 50 men right wouldn't the women be far more accessible to the

Andrew Wilsonmen and the women to the men because these are your only choices right mhm right well now it's a buffet but let me

Andrew Wilsonask you a question do you think on a dating app that a guy who's as attractive as you are just for a male as opposed to a female do you think that you get more people dming you or he gets

Andrew Wilsonmore people dming him most likely me most likely you wait do you have a that that means that from the sexual selection perspective you

Brian Atlashave more options than he does right wait really quick do you have a brother I do how uh how old is he he

Brian Atlasis 18 18 okay still bit still B oh 19 and you're 22 right um who's crushing like who could crush it more you know

Brian Atlascrush it CR who could crush it more like if you guys had to do like a competition like like just a or whatever like who could just crush it I don't like

Irenethose two words in the same sentence but um um I would say I guess I guess me yeah like you would but but it wouldn't it's not even a competition right like

Ireneyou would just them up yeah and I can't not acknowledge the fact that like it's true that when you see like a woman's like dating profile versus a man's and they could be equally attractive it's always

Irenethe women that get more matches and I'm not going to deny that but I do feel that because of the internet it does still make it easily more easily accessible to both men and

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)wom there's a lot of men who prefer to not commit to a lot of women anymore like that's pretty common in this day

Brian Atlasand age maybe the top tier guys maybe I I would say most at least our age yeah yeah but those men I mean most wait most men aren't willing to commit to a woman

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)I feel like a lot nowadays more what percentage of men are you attracted to um I don't have a percentage I think my

Brian Atlaslike type is weird but yeah I don't know okay but but also like I feel like most

Brian Atlasmen are invisible to y'all like Mo you most men you wouldn't even consider whereas like most men most men find most

Brian Atlaswomen attractive most women definitely do not find most men attractive yeah huge differential tomore Stone donating

TTS/Chat$100 appreciate it man marine Corvette here name one right you don't have that men do at this point in time name one

Andrew Wilsonanybody on this thank you Tom appreciate it man anybody going once going twice yeah what we were um what I was

Andrew Wilsongetting at we were we were like we were right there is the idea that if the internet has messed things up and sexual selection for women is very high then

Andrew Wilsonhow come men are having such a hard time finding

Irenewomen I feel like nowaday sorry S I feel like nowadays women are I can't deny the fact that women now have this mindset like as a collective

Ireneum I'm not saying I relate to it but it is the truth where women are like oh independent and like I don't need a man kind of energy so therefore or men also have like proven or not proven but it's

Ireneit's like I guess in a study where men have said that they're more intimidated by women nowadays because of the rejection that they'll face or this um

Andrew Wilsonfear of being seen as like a creep or something yeah you have 100 DMS for every one dm a man might get possibly a

Andrew Wilsonthousand possibly 500 right but it's going to be significantly more right men are going to dmu sign significantly more than you DM them right mhm do you think

Andrew Wilsonthat it's possible that most of the women are responding to the same type of

Andrew Wilsonman same type of well yeah everyone well so if you have a this giant pool of men to select from now that you didn't have

Andrew Wilsonbefore and now you can select for the the top tier ones that you want they're over 6'2 perhaps they make a lot of money they're very good-looking do you

Andrew Wilsonthink that women would compete over those men yes yeah I think so too and do you think if they were localized uh and they they only knew

Andrew Wilsonabout the men in their local area pre- internet they wouldn't have to compete right Andrew wouldn't there still be competition yeah but it would be

Andrew Wilsonlocalized competition right yeah yeah localized comp meaning it's not a buffet right right now you have a buffet if you get 100 DMS you can go through 100 guys

Andrew Wilsonand pick and choose right men can't do that correct correct so doesn't it stand a reason that if men are having trouble finding women that women are going for

Irenethis kind of top tier of men they're all going for kind of those same guys I still will stand by like the fact that I

Irenedo believe both men men and women have more access to dating and having more of a variety when it comes to dating due to the internet and I'm not saying one is

Irenelike getting it more no they don't have the same access I'm not saying they have the same access but I'm saying we both have grown with variety due to the internet at different scales okay but

Andrew Wilsonagain I'm going to I'm going to ask you this again if men get no DMS from women and you get 500 DMS from men who has the

Andrew Wilsonselection Buffet men or women women women and does it stand a reason that they would go for the best

Andrew Wilsonlooking and the mo the ones who were the best looking and made the most amount of money sure yeah and and it would stand a reason that men would go for like the

Andrew Wilsonhottest women right right okay so then if that is the case couldn't it be possible that women are just really all

Andrew Wilsoncompeting over a small select group of men sure yes yeah so this is called hypergamy and the idea here is that I agree with you that the internet is what

Andrew Wilsondestroyed dating I just wanted to kind of walk you through how it did absent localization right meaning we live in a

Andrew Wilsonfarm town in the 1950s there's only 30 women to choose from right I'm going to pick one of those women and those women don't have access to men external those same men in the farm town so they're

Andrew Wilsongoing to only have X amount to pick from but what happens when we open up that Global Market well now all women can compete

Andrew Wilsonfor 10% 5% of men right which that was my argum that's exactly what's happening yes how many DMS do you respond to huh how many DMS do you respond to I

Brian Atlasdon't check my DMs I don't respond to DMS wait these girls got to answer the question question too how many because they're making

Arina/Bianca (mixed)faces you go first me yeah oh expose myself wait whatever so okay um how many DMS have you gotten in your

Brian Atlaswhole life more than 100 thousands maybe thousands yeah wait into the mic you're way too far oh yeah more than thousands how many DMS have you sent

Rachelout less than five okay how many DMS have you received uh not that many also I'm from you know I'm older so like back in the days it was very different but yeah and now that I'm older than then

Andrew Wilsonit's it's not the same thing it's not the same thing all right uh okay well we'll get back to that we're going to get back to that though what how many oh how many DMS

Elbyhave you gotten Morgan I don't know count yeah sure how many DMS have you sent zero zero okay how many DMS have you received um I I don't even count cuz like I don't really care about it too

Brian Atlasmuch well I mean you don't need to give me a precise number but over a thousand probably like, 100 hundreds how many DMS

Brian Atlashave you sent out good question probably like around the 10 okay and wait was it

Brian Atlaslike nobody dudes or was it clouded like famous dudes oh your friend just gave you away so like musicians right athletes

Elbyum no wait she didn't give me away cuz she doesn't even know who I like DM okay but who are you dming though um probably like well actually know people that I

Elbywould probably side in DMS for would be like either like I'm interested in them so people from school I think are like kind of cute but have you ever slid into

Elbylike a famous guy's DMS yeah like once did he respond hell no no well actually technically I wasn't trying to slide like he was trying to

Elbyask for like um like ideas for his like video and I was like oh you should like react to this and that's it how many followers does he have dude I lost I

Elbydon't know like if I I what is he a musician he's a musician rapper

Brian Atlasno okay all right he's probably he's probably like like 150k oh okay all right what about you how many DMS have you received hundreds

Irenethousands sure I mean I I wouldn't say thousands because but hundreds sure how many DMS have you sent maybe

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)like 20 famous guys um maybe like one or one famous guy okay what about I don't really use social media that much but I mean the answer is still the same I'm

Emmasure I received more DMS than I sent Emma what about you I don't receed very many and never send any okay all right Ana what about you wait wait wait hang

Andrew Wilsonon hang on back up you were on the you've been on this show before there's no way that you walked off there's no way you walked off this show did not receive DMS Andrew I don't even I I

Andrew Wilsondon't think her Instagram was even in the thing so I know you're I know this audience they're going to ruthlessly hunt down if they're interested they're going to ruthlessly hunt him down and send him a DM not a one you didn't get a

Arina/Bianca (mixed)one dm yeah come on all right seems honest go ahead Ana not that many because I don't have my DMs on like not like I

Brian Atlascan't get requests okay all right

Andrew Wilsonum back to you Andrew you had I was just saying if you're looking if you're looking at that if you're if you understand that women

Andrew Wilsonare receiving uh you know thousands or hundreds more DMS than men are then this necessarily would show that you have a

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)much wider kind of array of men to choose from than than you know men have women right but this is 99% of the DMS just to hook up so like yeah we might have we might

Andrew Wilsonhave a bigger amount I would think so I think most I think think 99.9% of them could be for for hooking up but it gives you still this huge option men don't have right right but so

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)yeah women have more options to you know perhaps hook up but not necessarily to be in a committed relationship uh well okay but but let's

Andrew Wilsonback up and let's see if this actually passes the test so do you think that a man who wants to hook up with you uh is more likely to be interested in a relationship with you than a man who

Andrew Wilsondidn't want to hook up with you like a man who's not sexually attracted to you no I mean both of them of course would want to hook up regardless of no well hang on hang on but but a man who's sexually attracted to you is going to be

Andrew Wilsonmore likely to be interested in you right I don't think anyone who I'm sure most of the DMS we get are like really you know you're so hot or something like that I think people yeah they're sexually attracted to you so those men

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)would be more likely to be interested in you for dating as well right I I don't think so because I feel like if you start a conversation like this you're kind of already setting your intentions

Andrew Wilsonclear what like what what are they sending you like Hello beautiful oh man that really sounds like that guy just really hates your guts like what do you

Unknown guest (lawyer aspirant)mean not not hates your guts but in this day and age most of the guys who DM they're they don't want to pursue anything they want to hook up yeah maybe you'll change their mind maybe they end

Andrew Wilsonup liking your personality but that's not their right but you have that option is the point men don't have that option and so if all if if women are all getting the same DMS from the same guys

Andrew Wilsonlet's say why wouldn't they gravitate towards the best looking and the tallest and the most handsomest and all of that why wouldn't they gravitate towards those same men yeah they I'm sure they

Andrew Wilsondo if yeah so now you've run into the problem of hypergamy and hypergamy is is showing okay now the marketplace is completely

Andrew Wilsonopen but but now those top tier men all the women are pursuing them and all of the other men they're not getting pursued and they're not pursuing because

Andrew Wilsonthey can't compete with those that higher Echelon of men yeah I feel that's a phenomen the entirety that the reason the entirety of the dating Market is screwed is because of this one principle of localization versus globalization

Andrew Wilsonwhen it comes to dating anyway go ahead I I just think that's a phenomenon that existed before to it's just show me where exist where did this phenomenon exist before the internet in the cities

Rachellike you know like that the the hottest how could it have existed in the cities no I mean like that's that's not just an internet thing that like women are The Gatekeepers and they're going to receive

Rachelthey're going to be hid on more than like men are going to be hit on and like that's I'm just saying yeah sure I agree with you the idea here is not that women are going to get hit on more than men

Andrew Wilsonthe idea here is is that if you only have a localized pool of men to choose from yeah you're going to pick one of that localized pool what if so like let me give you an example Rachel so let's

Andrew Wilsonsay there's 100 men that you can choose from would you rather have that or 20 million yeah no I know what you mean but but ultimately that's the point

Rachelright it's like once you have access to 20 million yeah right who's going to say I'd only rather have a 100 no but than 20 million no I get you but ultimately like you said the hottest men or

Rachelwhatever are going to have their first pick too right so they're going to pick the hottest women or like whatever right so then women will have to go to the rest of the pool anyways at some point

Andrew Wilsonright because you're not going to get after they Fu after they've had sex with that higher man I guess and all of these different women have had sex with that higher tier man that's why men have body

Andrew Wilsoncounts some men have body counts into the several uh uh hundreds to thousands right it's because many women are gravitating towards that same select

Andrew Wilsongroup yeah men so it's like okay that's great but if you're holding out for that man what happens to you you're wasting years right and so that's why women get married later in life you're I agree

Rachelwith you they're settling for that next tier of man but they were gravitating towards that higher tier right yeah there were but yeah and I think the problem is like you that

Rachelthat's how women nowadays kind of value themselves I agreed you know and I I think that's the the like the deeper root problem where like you think if you have sex with this dude that doesn't really give a about you Andes it's

Rachelnot going to give you something stable longterm whatever but then you had sex with the hot guy but then like okay and then you you're you got the attention

Rachelyou got anyways my point is like the the values the core values are not at the right place yeah no I agree with that the core values may not be there all right prescriptively that's true but

Andrew Wilsondescriptively I'm just talking about what is happening yeah what is happening is that we've opened up the marketplace for dating and you can date a guy right now in Ohio right yeah they online and in the 1950s

Andrew WilsonHow would you have communicated with a guy from Ohio how would you have even met him or known how he existed yeah and also how would that have been how would that have even been done would you have just done like longdistance letter

Andrew Wilsonwriting to each other after you happen to stumble into him in your local community right yeah it would not have been very easy but right this second if a guy from Ohio DMS you who's 6'2 and

Rachelsix figures boy it's really easy to communicate with him isn't it but that's the thing and before internet like people had to actually like you know like it takes way more guts to go to a

Andrew Wilsonperson in person than to DM the little message online oh yeah it makes non- interpersonal yeah I agree so the commitment is already way more when you're like okay you know it's either

Rachelyou meet the person in a bar or like I mean whatever right but in physical form then you have like you know you got to get like either the girl the guy so that's already that already creates like

Andrew Wilsonsomeone that value use way more than just dming you because it's so easy well as somebody points out they say um what about pin Pals well I think that pin Pals existed sure but you had

Andrew Wilsonto meet them right like you had to still meet them locally somewhere you don't have to meet people locally anymore you can go on a dating profile and you could post you you can be like here's my face and

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