ONLY 4 SHOWS LEFT? She USES Men?! FEMCEL? CHARGING For Dates?! Wheelchair Dating! | Dating Talk #218

Date: 2024-12-04

Duration: 8h 19m

Guests

Brian Atlas

RRiri (Rachel)>

CCassie (DT218)>

MMelena (DT218)>

AAndrew Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00TTS Voice(audience)

SPEAKER_01Andrew Wilson(host)

SPEAKER_02Nikki(guest)

SPEAKER_03Background(audience)

SPEAKER_04Luna(guest)

SPEAKER_05Background(audience)

SPEAKER_06D Cav (DJ)(guest)

SPEAKER_07Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_08Jay Hannah(guest)

SPEAKER_09Background(audience)

SPEAKER_10Ali Corin(guest)

SPEAKER_11Riri (Rachel)(guest)

SPEAKER_12Melena(guest)

SPEAKER_14Cassie(guest)

Key Moments

IntroAli Corin introduces herself: wheelchair dancer, 27, from Fresno area, moved to Santa Barbara. Ambulatory wheelchair user — has genetic condition causing daily joint dislocations and a TBI. Has had wheelchair for ~4 years.

“my name is Ali Corin I am 27 and I just moved to Santa Barbara and I am a professional dancer for my wheelchair”

IntroNikki introduces herself: 25, exotic dancer, originally from Cambodia, adopted and raised in Northern California, moved to LA 2 years ago.

“my name is Nikki I'm 25 um I'm originally from Cambodia and I was adopted and brought to Northern California and I moved to LA 2 years ago and I'm an exotic dancer”

IntroRiri introduces herself: 19, pre-law student, wheelchair dancer. Paralyzed at age 8 from botched scoliosis surgery; further paralyzed at 16 from transverse myelitis (mono killed her spinal cord).

“my name is Riri I'm 19 um I'm currently a pre-law student um I also do wheelchair dancing”

IntroCassie introduces herself: 31, mental health advocate, New York, dropped out of psychology. Was diagnosed with ASPD/psychopathy but rediagnosed as Alexithymia. Never had an orgasm. Has underdeveloped amygdala.

“my name is Cassie I'm 31 I'm a mental health Advocate and I live in New York”

IntroD Cav introduces herself: 23, babysitter from Chicago (now LA). Does not have a job beyond babysitting 3x a week.

“my name is D Cav I'm 23 years old and I really don't do anything but I babysit”

IntroMelena introduces herself: 22, personal trainer and Reiki practitioner from LA. NASM certified. Reiki practitioner certified after rehab experience.

“I'm Melena I'm 22 I'm from La mhm um I'm a personal trainer and a raiki practitioner”

IntroJay Hannah introduces herself: 33, Instacart worker, Hollywood CA. Originally from small town North Dakota. Bachelor's in journalism.

“my name is j Hannah I'm 33 years old and I live in Hollywood California Los Angeles... I work for instacart full-time”

IntroLuna introduces herself: 26, exotic dancer and clothing designer, LA. Plans to study pharmacy/become a psychiatrist.

“my name is Luna and I'm 26 years old um currently I am an exotic dancer and I make personal clothing”

Key MomentAli reveals she does not date cisgender men because she is 'not attracted to people born with male privilege.' Brian and Andrew probe the logic at length, eventually Ali clarifies this is tied to childhood trauma (sexual abuse). Generates extended philosophical debate.

“I don't date cisgender men... I'm not attracted to people who are born with male privilege”

QuoteNikki recounts that one of her abusive ex-boyfriends pointed a gun at her face and she had to beg for her life; later another strangled her. She stayed partly because she couldn't leave her pet chinchillas.

“one tried to shoot me like twice... I was crying begging him to stop... the other one just like strangled me”

ControversyMelena recounts that when she was 17 she was sneaking out to meet men from Tinder who knew she was 17. The oldest was 30. Brian notes this was a crime in California. Melena says she was escaping abuse at home and seeking alcohol.

“when I was 17 I would sneak out and meet up with older guys online... the oldest was 30 when I was 17 and they knew I was 17”

ControversyCassie discusses her self-identification as a former 'femcel.' She no longer identifies as one after going on YouTube channels and receiving thousands of emails from interested men. Dispute with Brian and Andrew over whether femcels can truly exist since women can always access sex.

“I used to consider myself a fem cell but I'm no longer a fem cell because I'm around like a lot of guys”

ControversyD Cav admits she is still sleeping with the ex-boyfriend who cheated on her 17 times, solely to keep her body count low. Brian and panel react with shock and humor.

“I'm seeing that X right now... only for sex... I'm not going to up my body count that's literally the only reason why”

IntroAndrew Wilson introduces himself as host of The Crucible, political analyst.

“my name is Andrew Wilson I'm the host of The Crucible it's a popular entertainment Channel on YouTube I'm a political analyst”

QuoteJay reveals her worst ex was a SoundCloud rapper with face tattoos who was homeless when she met him, became an alcoholic, wouldn't let her work or go to the gym, criticized her constantly, and she gained 30 lbs during the relationship.

“he was homeless when we met... he wouldn't let me work... I gained 30 lbs when I was in that relationship”

Key MomentAndrew challenges the guests who rated themselves 9-10 to identify their female beauty standard, then pulls up photos showing they bear no resemblance to the women they cited (Zendaya, Elsa Hosk, Beyoncé). Argues that claiming to be a 10 while naming a clearly more attractive woman as the standard is 'slightly narcissistic.'

“if you consider all of these women to be tens and you declared yourself to be an eight nine or ten how could you be... if this woman who you stated was the kind of epitome of perfect Beauty do you look like them — the answer from both tens was yes”

Key MomentBrian argues it is not 'straight' for a cisgender man to date a transgender woman because sex (not gender) defines sexual orientation. Ali and Jay initially disagree, then concede based on Brian's definitional argument. Brian also says the word 'cisgender' offends him; Ali agrees to stop using it around him.

“two males having sex regardless of your gender identity that would be a homosexual act that would be gay it would not be straight”

ControversyBrian gives the 'paternity uncertainty' evolutionary psychology argument for why men prefer low body count women. Ali challenges this as hypocritical since high-body-count men contribute to raising women's body counts. Extended debate with Brian, Ali, and Andrew.

“it's just evolutionary it's just biological... paternity uncertainty... evolutionarily hardwired into men”

QuoteCassie, slightly drunk, reveals she has zero consensual sexual experiences (body count 0) but a BJ count of 7, and that men she's dated have declined to sleep with her because they 'don't want to take advantage of her' due to her autism/Alexithymia.

“consensual zero zero but BJ count seven... a lot of men refuse to have sex with me... they say I don't want to take advantage of you”

OtherAndrew Wilson wraps up his participation and says farewell to the panel around the 6:47 mark.

“very happy to have met all of you my heart out here at 3:00 eastern time... I hope you guys all have a great night”

Topics Discussed

Introductions & Show Setup

Brian opens the show with announcements (streamlabs, Twitch, Discord, WoW guild), then goes around the table for guest introductions: name, age, location, occupation. Guests introduced: Ali Corin (wheelchair dancer), Nikki (Cambodian adoptee/exotic dancer), Riri (pre-law/wheelchair), Cassie (mental health advocate), D Cav (babysitter), Melena (personal trainer/reiki), Jay Hannah (Instacart), Luna (exotic dancer). Andrew Wilson introduced last as co-host.

Relationship Status Round

Each guest shares current relationship status, how long single, longest relationship, and who broke up with whom. Highlights: Ali in 2-year polyamorous relationship; Nikki single ~1 year (traumatized by two abusive ex-relationships); Riri single 8 months; Cassie never been in a relationship (femcel discussion); D Cav still sleeping with her cheating ex (camera guy); Melena single 6 months dating a drug addict; Jay single 2.5 years; Luna recently out of a relationship in September 2024.

Ali's Attraction to 'Non-Male-Privilege' People

Extended discussion of Ali Corin's stated reason for not dating cisgender men — 'I'm not attracted to people born with male privilege.' Brian and Andrew probe the logic: does privilege hierarchy matter (e.g., a black man from Compton vs. a billionaire Latina)? Ali clarifies her attraction is also trauma-based (abuse history). Andrew draws parallels to his own philosophical positions on gender pronouns and Orthodox Christianity.

Femcel Discussion

Cassie introduces herself as a former 'femcel' (female involuntarily celibate). Brian, Andrew, and Cassie unpack the term: true involuntary celibacy vs. voluntary celibacy with standards. Brian argues femcels can't truly exist because women can always access sex. Cassie agrees she can no longer identify as a femcel after going viral and receiving thousands of emails from men. Cassie advocates for femcels in Discord communities she participates in.

Pre-Show Notes & Stories

Brian goes through each guest's submitted pre-show notes: Riri's unhinged wheelchair dating app stories; Melena's catfish furniture-assembly scheme; Nikki's two abusive exes (gun incident, strangulation); D Cav's cheating camera-guy ex; Jay's lake cabin Tinder story, $200/day rich man, porn star hookup; Ali's all-queer honey bunny group; Cassie's femcel journey and viral MRI video. Major topics include: ho phases, sex work, toxic relationships.

Wheelchair Dating & Etiquette

Riri and Ali discuss the unique challenges of dating in wheelchairs: uninvited lifting/pushing by dates, dating app responses ranging from fetish to pity, etiquette for able-bodied people, and why Riri chooses not to date another wheelchair user (practical support reasons).

Self-Ratings & Beauty Standards

Guests rate their own looks 1-10. Most rate themselves 7-10. Andrew then challenges those who rated themselves 9-10 by asking them to name their female beauty standard (e.g., Zendaya, Victoria's Secret Angels, Beyoncé, Megan Fox) and then showing photos — pointing out they don't actually resemble their stated standards. Discussion about narcissism, whether high self-ratings are narcissistic, and the relationship between attractiveness and dating patterns.

AI Age Progression Photos

Damian displays AI-generated age-progression and age-regression photos of each guest. Guests and Andrew react to how they might look older. D Cav gets 'blue eyes' which confuses everyone. Brian shows a real photo of his ex-girlfriend (Japanese woman) bowing when he returned home late from a podcast, sparking a discussion about traditional female behavior.

Questionnaire Round

Brian reads from a prepared questionnaire: bear vs. man in the forest; height requirements; minimum income requirements; sugar daddies and pay pigs; witchcraft and manifestation; narcissist dating; the gender wage gap; WNBA pay; women's career attractiveness; body count discussion (high body count double standard, men preferring low body count women, paternity uncertainty argument); whether marriage is a bad deal for men; whether you can be sexist toward men; trans women and straight men debate; and whether men put in more effort than women.

Trans Women, Straight Men, & Language Debate

Brian asks panelists whether it's straight for a cisgendered man to date a trans woman. Ali and Jay disagree (say yes, it would be straight). Brian and Andrew argue heterosexual refers to biological sex, not gender identity. Andrew and Brian also discuss Brian finding the term 'cisgender' offensive; Ali eventually agrees to stop using it around Brian if he finds it offensive.

Body Count & Double Standards Debate

Extended back-and-forth between Ali, Brian, and Andrew on whether it's hypocritical for high-body-count men to prefer low-body-count women. Brian argues evolutionary psychology (paternity uncertainty) justifies men's preference. Ali counters that men contribute to high female body counts and that the same logic should apply to women's standards for men. Andrew dissects the definition of hypocrisy. Guests then reveal their body counts: Nikki ~15 (BJ ~20), Riri ~8, Cassie 0 (BJ 7), D Cav 12, Melena ~10 (lost count), Jay lost count (high).

Andrew Wilson Departure

Andrew wraps up his participation around the 6:47 mark, bidding farewell to the panel. He notes he has no ill will despite contentious exchanges, particularly with Ali. Brian thanks him and directs viewers to The Crucible channel.

Roast Session & Final TTS

Brian lowers TTS price to $20 for a roast session. Chat sends roast messages targeting various guests. Political discussion (who voted for Kamala, who voted for Trump). Brian shows video of his Japanese ex-girlfriend bowing. D Cav reveals she's on Ozempic. Cassie gets drunk (had been drinking since arriving from a flight). Final call to action to stop sex work. Brian wraps up the show.

Transcript

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Brian Atlasyou an a all right her are yo libertariat thank you for the uh TTS man really appreciate it W's in the chat guys for libertariat uh okay so let's get those super chats rolling over on whatever

Brian AtlasCrucible crew he's put together some great panels lately it's been a lot of fun to uh tangle up with the various people who are on them make sure you get those ttss in thank you guys appreciate

Brian Atlasit so uh let's see uh okay we were talking going through your notes uh I would like a demo though of the raiki will you do it tonight on the show sure

MelenaI mean I don't touch their body the only place I'll touch is like their forehead and temples and then swiping below the knee um cuz I think that's can and it

Melenacan help treat like certain maladies or ailments and stuff um well there's um there's a really good book about it you can heal your life by Louis he right but so it can though that's I'm asking yeah

Melenaso in the book it kind of explains how like different chakras are associated to different illnesses yeah um so I kind of Base it off of that book have you ever um treated anybody with like a rectile disfunction or no someone asked me

Brian Atlasactually and I said no you wouldn't do that that's kind of like don't you feel like hypocritic oath like don't shouldn't you help a guy like he can't like he I think like maybe a different

Brian Atlasraiki healer that feels more comfortable with that okay what about like hm what about like premature ejaculation like can you help there or like if the guy just it's too

Andrew Wilsonquick like asking for a friend just asking for a friend you know just a friend

Andrew Wilsonyeah here's some some good raiki look just look at that look at that it didn't even burn me didn't even burn me raiki

Brian Atlasbaby I got it I got the thing I got the chakras going I got it let's go let's go all right back into the notes Here we do have uh let's see

Brian Atlasuh see what they said no I can't see it dang okay nice nice uh so okay going back to your notes you're currently considering open relationships and

Brian Atlascurious on other people's thoughts on it uh you wanted to also discuss the struggles of dating while doing only fans so you do o not anymore during that per while you were doing it years ago

Brian Atlaswhat kind of content were you doing just like BG any BG content what does that mean boy girl no Okay so content then solo okay uh you said uh you were signed

Brian Atlasto an agency and you were working in a strip club you had an horrible experience with it are you talking about the o or the strip club or both um the strip club and then because of the horrible experience there I decided to

Brian Atlasquit all of it right you said it was traumatic but the money was amazing you would never do it again you would never do it again because you're hopeless romantic and it made dating impossible and you value your self-respect and

Brian Atlasrespect from others more than easy quick money yep yeah and I mean you also dance do you dance Too currently yeah uh have you guys struggled with dating because

Brian Atlasof the Dancing Yeah but do you do you do o too yeah of2 no I've only for like a months okay um so for you did you you started stripping before the O correct

Brian Atlasno I did I started o in 2020 then you started I started daning two years ago what do you think it like I I was going to ask what do you think would make dating harder stripping or doing oh have stripping for sure stripping for sure way easier because I

Nikkionly do boy girl content so I'm never having to leave the house never having to talk to anyone really like I just talk to them in chat but I'm not having to see meet up with them or anything see them in person okay got it yeah we've definitely heard from a lot of uh women

Brian Atlason o that they uh struggle with the dating stuff uh let's see would you guys be uh I guess would you object to a guy who didn't want to date you because you guys do o like what do you think that's like would you think he's insecure or

Lunaanything like that it's I understand iter no my last relationship uh he wanted me to stop dancing and I stopped dancing out of respect but the one before that I actually met him in the club the when that was the longest

Brian Atlasrelationship surprisingly all right um and I guess just finishing up on your previous note uh you said you're currently considering open relationships

Melenauh so are you but if I recall you've been single for 6 months you said yeah are you uh did you say there was a guy in the picture I forgot yeah so I'm

Melenaseeing one guy right now we both don't really want to settle to one person right now I feel like I'm in a space

Melenawhere I'm still like figuring out myself um although like I do want to get married one day what you say you're finding

Melenayourself on the journey I mean I think I'll always be discovering more about myself but I think because I was recently in like a

Melenavery unhealthy abusive relationship I'm not ready to get into a new relationship okay all right uh and then

Brian Atlasuh Andrew do you have a question for the panel I need to get up for just a moment do you have a a line of i' like to just uh dive into a couple of quick things if

Andrew Wilsonyou don't mind heading back over to the raiki how did you get involved in that just some buddy of yours or something um

MelenaI was actually it was while was a patient in rehab they're um they would do this like sound bath breath work class and then someone would go around

Melenaand do raiki and I had a really powerful experience with that um was that like guided meditation you mean yeah like a guided meditation and they'll guide you through the breath work like Wim Hoff

Melenabreath work um so then I started working for that nonprofit and getting certified and I'll go around and do the raike while they have the breath class now so

Melenait's a job for you yeah I don't get paid for they pay you to do the raiki I get paid with my private clients um but with the nonprofit all of the proceeds go

Andrew Wilsontowards bringing meditation to children in schools so I do it for free that's really cool let me ask you a question mhm if you were to discover that there could be like some Placebo benefits

Andrew Wilsonmeaning doesn't actually work but because some people think it works it has some positive influence fluence on them but you were able to discover 100% that it was fake would you still do it

Melenabecause you thought that it gave people positive results even if it was fake yeah I think I would just because I think the whole reason I do it is to help other people um so if it's still

Melenaproviding that I would probably still do it yeah really you wouldn't see any ethical issues with that um well if there was like a study

Melenathat it wasn't 100% like it 100% wasn't true and like everyone knew about it that's what I was assuming okay yeah if they were like also aware all right

Andrew Wilsonquick question for the uh for the rest of the panelists while Brian's up just a quick show of hands can you raise your hand if you've ever done witchcraft or have any type of association with

Andrew Wilsonwitchcraft this would include Ouija boards you know stuff like that just uh just the fun goofy stuff right I do full moon rituals you do what what are full moon

Melenarituals you what are full moon rituals what are these you live I'll write down my like fears and like certain things I want to be removed and then burn it

Lunaunder the full moon so if that's witchcraft yeah yeah ask your definition of Witchcraft cuz I've done a few things but I don't know if it was like I did a Ouija board when I was

Jay Hannah18 I didn't like it I think it messed up my life I think this is kind of I I don't know if I'd quite call it witchcraft but it's kind of in the same category but there I

Jay Hannahwas talking to the sky during Co who I had a really big crush on him at the time and cuz you know we were all in quarantine I was staying inside I was bored so I would do this manifesta

Jay Hannahspecific person meditation on YouTube every day to try to manifest a relationship with this guy and I did it every day for probably like eight months

Jay Hannahand he ended end up he ended up rejecting me but then after he rejected me I got I got really angry and cuz he started dating this other he started dating this other girl like he told me

Jay Hannahhe was like oh I'm I like you but I'm just not ready and then a month later he's dating this other girl and then that was when I met when I met my ex the last one the one who was really abusive

Jay Hannahand then after I broke up with this ex this guy ended up reaching out about like saying that he likes me and wants to try again so I guess it did kind of work but by then I was no longer

Andrew Wilsoninterested in him cuz I kind of realized like he's a nice guy but we're just not compatible anymore well let's say for a second that uh you just obsessed over this guy rather than trying to manifest

Andrew Wilsonanything so I understand what you're saying it's like the Law of Attraction type thing you're talking about yeah where yeah yeah got it like like you watch the secret and after you watched the secret it changed your life type of

Jay Hannahthing yeah it's a not the secret but it was a the Kevin Trudeau's your wishes your command was the first one that that was my first I guess Deep dive into manifestation when my friend sent me

Andrew Wilsonthose audios and uh after I started listening to those and then just wanting to learn more and more about it and it went from there how to manifest the things you want so let's just say that you were super obsessive about this person what would be the distinction

Jay Hannahbetween that and manifesting something uhuh I just like believe that I believed it would work and also you know we were all in quarantine I think that kind of [ __ ] with a lot of

Jay Hannahpeople's heads on some level I don't think I don't think I would do that now it's like right now I'm I'm way too busy I work a lot I'm way too busy to spend

Andrew Wilson20 minutes a day on a meditation like that bored it was like Co related witchcraft You're just bored so trying

Andrew Wilsonto manifest up the guy you wanted yeah pretty much yeah okay all right all right what other witchcraft stories we got here I've used money candles to make like hopefully make like obviously more

Lunamoney I had a money tree for a little bit and then what's a what's a money tree it's like a it's literally like a tree that manifests money I don't know what yeah is it a bonsai it's a plant

Lunayeah bonsai tree mhm I never does it manifest money it's like a really popular thing in Korea um I light a candle and I put a $100 bill underneath and I let it burn and um kind of just

Lunalike I repeat the number like of the amount of money that I want to make that night so that it um manifests it pretty much I don't know did it work uh it has worked several times uh

Andrew Wilsonsometimes I make the exact amount or more really so what do you think that's better way to make money than taking that 100 and investing it well I don't burn the 100 but it's just under burn it

Lunaright yeah I'm just I'm just I'm just pointing it out anyway what else what else you got and then tarot cards but I'm not like I'm not the best at it um but I have doubled in it like here and

Lunathere it's not something I really focus on anymore cuz it can get really toxic um but yeah what do you mean it can cause like paranoia if you're keep getting your cards read and like or it

Lunacan cause Obsession or anything like obsession with a person and thinking like oh my God they're going to come back and like you know things like that like the Tik Tok people like the way they do it and like how it's like spread every like it's just like a reading

Andrew Wilsonafter reading after reading that can like that can become really toxic for the brain okay anybody else nobody else nobody else has the wit

Melenathis isn't really witchcraft I don't think but I see the same psychic every month for you see a psychic does anybody else see a psychic not anymore I've seen one are they across the street from the

Melenapsychologist no it's my sister's friend from high school oh really yeah was he a psychic in high school um I think it was

Andrew Wilsonlike right around the end of high school so like 10 15 years ago H well did any good insights there yeah

Melena[Music] um about my life right now she's like quit your job good things are coming start the podcast with dark

Andrew Wilsoncavia okay all right let's move on to a different line of questioning here nobody else has any witchcraft stories very quickly uh by a show of hands raise your hand if you've ever dated a narcissist go

Andrew Wilsonahead okay man so just a lot of people who have dated a narcissist all right real quick show of hands raise your hand those of you who've dated a narcissist

Andrew Wilsonwhere that narcissist was actually diagnosed by somebody who was not you

Melenaum can I add something to that go ahead it's pretty rare that narcissism is diagnosed because what the disorder is is not being able to admit your wrongs

Melenalike that's part of it um so like if a therapist is only hearing their side where like they're the victim they're not going to know that they're a narcissist uh well I I don't understand

Andrew Wilsonand most there seems to be quite a few people who are more than capable of dating a narcissist I just saw many of them raise their hands quite a few people who seem to be quite capable of saying you're a narcissist or not a narcissist

Melenawhen you say it doesn't go diagnosed it doesn't seem to stop you from diagnosing it because the person diagnosing is only hearing the narcissist side and part of the narcissism is that they're the victim they're not going to admit like

Melenait's a control thing certain things yeah you let down your guard with the person you're dating and that's how you see people's true col I think it's what you're getting at like my therapist has said that my mom's a narcissist but my

Melenamom's therapist doesn't say that but me and all of my sister's therapists does because my mom therapist is only hearing her side not that

Andrew Wilsonshe physically abused her children yeah I mean I do assume that narcissists do have or who you think is a narcissist have their side of the

Andrew Wilsonstory too right like that's not supposed to just be dismissed because you think they're a narcissist valid but don't you have to include both sides to get a diagnosis yeah but if you did include both in this

Andrew Wilsoncase the diagnoser is only including their side right the diagnos no the diagnoser in this case would be the women who say that they've dated a narcissist they're only

Brian Atlasincluding their side how could they be including the other person's side yeah I get what you're saying that makes sense yeah yeah did you uh did you have a bit more

Andrew WilsonAndrew otherwise I'll just finish up on the notes Here Yeah well just uh just just the last thing um I I just wanted to to ask who here has dated from their

Andrew Wilsonperception more than one narcissist show of hands

Nikkireally oh so so you like how do you keep finding so many narcissists how how I think it comes when when you're like a Healer you want to help other people and you see these people are damaged and

Jay Hannahthen they take advantage of you because see how good and caring you are and they just don't do that they don't reciprocate it yeah that's exactly what happened to me with my last ex he just literally depleted me so completely I

Jay Hannahwas like when we broke up I was like a shell of everything like it was like all my magic had been just completely drained out when we broke up and then I had to rebuild a she said magic they

Andrew Wilsonreally know how to break your magical true it is how it feels though it literally is okay last question and then I'll let Brian moving on raise your hand if you think there's a good possibility

Andrew Wilsonthat Brian Atlas the host of the show is a narcissist the guy who's in the room with you right now just kidding just kidding just kidding okay and then raise

Jay Hannahyour hand if you think I'm a narcissist just kidding just kidding again just kidding just kidding all right what about

Brian Atlasmisogynist I think some misogyny is like not what she about to say okay I don't think it's the same like a low level of misogyny you're kind of down for you're

Lunadown for the cause I don't know why but yes you're down from the misogyny okay I think narcissism's different from misogyny though okay all right I think cuz sometime my last relationship I was

Brian Atlasthe narcissist so that's why just okay uh let's blast through these notes then we can get to the juicy stuff in the questionnaire uh Nikki you said that you've had so many crazy dating stories

Nikkiyour ex tried to ex's plural excuse me m tried to kill you yeah two different B the the two the ones that I was in the twoe relationship both of them tried to kill me and both times I got help from other people so well actually okay long

Nikkistory short when you say they were trying to kill youe one tried to shoot me like twice with a Glock actually shot yeah with the Glock like he had the gun pointed well no he literally was going to and I literally was begging him to stop and his mom was in the other room

Nikkiand I was crying begging him to stop and then that was the final STW hold uh wait hold on are you okay no period je wait so two separate guys two separate

Nikkioccasions only one one tried to shoot me the other one just like strangled me and then but he had a gun did you one just one dided oh just one had a gun yeah just one had a gun and the other one strangled me the other one strangled you

Nikkiyeah was it like a one hand or a two it was two hands and but luckily the cops came the cops found us and so with the gun though he pointed the gun yeah at your like how close was he he was he was

Nikkijust like this like just straight far way like closer than this like I was standing like in the middle of the table was the gun touching your head no he was just facing it right towards me and like and I didn't know if it was loaded or not and I just didn't want to take any

Nikkicuz I knew he had bullets his whole family has guns I know he had bullets and he would do it so I just had to beg for my life and you know play the part okay um how long ago was that this was

Cassieum 2 years ago right before I moved down to La this that's why I moved down here to get far away from him okay I don't blame you at all that's horrifying um so like I've heard a similar story like

Cassiethat like working in mental health and like a lot of the times when women are in these horrible you know danger situations um they're like they've normalized like being in horrible

Cassiedangerous situations I was used to getting beat that's what I wanted to know like so when you were younger like one of your parents beat you no no it's just my exes that beat me your exes yeah

Cassiethem so when you first realiz I that they were abusive verbally emotionally physically why didn't you leave and I'm not victim blaming it's just that I I

Cassiehear this a lot and sometimes like girls actually die so like I'm just curious like cuz there had to be something before the gun you know I felt like I had no support and you know I felt like

NikkiI was alone I had animals at I lived with both of them so I feel like that also made me feel tied down to them and I had two pets at the time with them so not only did I have to escape myself I had to escape my animals too you know so

NikkiI had to come up a plan and it's just you know I felt like I had no options wait what yeah you couldn't leave the abusive relationship because of fluffy I had two chinchillas and like I just you

Nikkiknow I wanted to save them chinchilla wait they were chinchillas they were chinchillas yeah and I wanted to save them cuz you know I didn't want to I couldn't leave them like they were my babies they were all I had left you know like I was what's a chinchilla is that a

Nikkitype of rabbit it's a looks yeah looks like a squirrel almost it's a rabbit no looks like a mix between a squirrel and a rabbit let me Google this [ __ ] it

Andrew Wilsonlooks like a fluffy rat anyway you so you you put yourself In Harm's Way can like bite off a couple fluffy rats yeah you know my mom tells me other day like I should have just

Nikkileft those animals but you know I can't do that it's not in my heart wait would you still have them no I had to give them up to move down here because they I thought but you know I'm glad I I saved them from him you know what I mean

Andrew Wilsonhe probably would killed them oh yeah so he didn't give a [ __ ] about them so I had to you know I could see a dog or like a cat but like no I couldn't see that either but I would at least grant that there could be a bigger emotional

NikkiBarn yeah well and also like I was living with him at the time so he made me he isolated me from my family like I wasn't allowed to talk to my mom I wasn't allowed to talk to my sister like which is insane even saying that but I

Nikkiliterally just felt trapped how long have you been in like dangerous situations um like a lot oh well I mean with like I mean depending like I in danger situations even with guys I'm not

Cassiedating like I got chased the other night by some guy like some random guy she like she just always happen I'm sorry it's just I hear this a lot so when you when you are and and I'm not saying this is no fault of your own but when you are

Cassiein dangerous situations for a prolonged period of time the only like one of the main ways one of the only ways you can die is violently cuz like I've seen girls that like they're fa is like

Nikkislashed cuz they were in a situation that they felt like they couldn't get out of I definitely felt like I couldn't get away and that's why I had to for the second one I had to talk to my work and come up with the Escape Plan and ask his

Nikkisister worked with me at at this job and I had to tell her about all the be and she helped me come up with an Escape Plan cuz she knew how her brother was she knew he had a history of abusing girls and so she wanted to help me okay

Melenaso you know she she gave me theing yeah part this is not where I thought this was going for real like summer you said you uh Church camp

Brian AtlasOh you said that you found out that uh one of your exes was doing meth yeah so this when you went through his pockets yeah this is like the one guy who I went through his phone I don't do this

Nikkianymore because I know I'm going to find [ __ ] I don't like but yeah he would he would so he would basically when you're on meth like it puts you in a deep sleep when you finally crash so he would be in such a deep sleep that I know he wasn't going to wake up so I'd go through his phone so I'd reach my hand in his

Nikkipockets and then I found a meth pipe and then like the next day I confronted him about I broke that [ __ ] and then I confronted him and he said it was his brother's so then I went up to his brother and I'm like hey I'm sorry I broke your pipe I didn't know it was yours and the brother just looked at me

Nikkilike uh okay and then I found out he was doing math and then everything made sense why he would steal things from people why he'd steal from me he stole money from me to go gambling and like I was the only one working at the time so

Brian Atlashe would steal my last dollar to go gambling okay um and then you also said you enjoy speaking on dating dating sex workers as you are one you date male sex

Brian Atlasworkers is what you're saying or no like I just how you know it's hard for your own experiences dating as a sex worker okay and then I guess a different one moving on you said with modern dating I feel like we bring back old traditions

Nikkilike the man provides and we clean what do you mean by that um I mean I I would love to be a stay-at-home mom so I don't mind if a man wants to just you know let work all you know work for us and then I would just stay home and clean like I'm perfectly fine with that but I'm also

Nikkibeen the one to where I'm the only one working and I provided for the man so I've I've done both but I prefer to be provided for I understand the the idea

Nikkihere that um you want to stay home while the man works I get that but I would still be open to doing like only fans working from home so I could still be working from home or doing twitch from

Andrew Wilsonhome like YouTube I would love to just still work from home you know what I mean well what is what is do you think the exchange is what does he get um in exchange for you staying home um I mean I would just take care of him take care

Nikkiof the house you know do whatever he needs whatever he asks I feel I feel like I still wanted to you know whatever he asked I would do I want to do my part still it's not like I want him to just be the only one bring bringing in the

Andrew Wilsonmoney like that's why I'd still love to just work from home and help you know I I'm I'm a giver so I do what I can do you think that the kind of man who would want you just to be a stay-at-home mom

Nikkiwould want you to do only fans um it depends you know with the age some guys don't care some do but I'm always willing I mean most most men who want to settle down and have a family probably wouldn't want that yeah and I

Nikkifeel like if I were to have a family I wouldn't want to do only fans anymore because I feel like yeah and I would stop dancing too if I would have settle down and have a family with somebody okay yeah and then also in your notes

Brian Atlasyou said that uh you said it's also fun to be the bread winner you're used to being the one who provides for the man in the relationship and you've been seeking a man who will provide uh you've

Brian Atlasbeen keeping your options open and that's pretty much pretty much it uh you do you speak Cambodian I don't no I was adopted you're adopted okay all right

Brian Atlasgoing to Ali oh goodness Ali here Ally here I think your in your Instagram there's a tagline that says wait oh okay never mind that's something that's somebody else my bad you describe

Brian Atlasyourself as a polyamorous disabled queer woman who used to run an all Queer honey

Ali Coringroup indeed I did and you have so many stories what is first off what is a uh honey group what is that that was what they cumulatively named it it was just

Ali Corinthat like the girls did not feel safe whenever CIS men were in the group because a lot of them had trauma I had a bunch of friends that uh I worked I've

Ali Corinnever been like a dancer like these lovely gals have love that could never personally because like I just don't think that I handle it but I was a goo dancer met a bunch of girls that wanted

Ali Corinlike a community of queer women to hang out with and just chose it yeah Meetup Group you guys had a group how many people were in the group queer honey bunny group I think the most that were

Brian Atlasever in the group was 45 45 okay I did you mentioned something there that I uh kind of took a note on you said that a lot of these women they had trauma with cismen so cismen were not obviously

Brian Atlasallowed to join the group that's what I'm just saying um do you think that this is uh uh granting that they had this trauma these poor experiences with CIS men

Brian Atlaswhich by the way well that's a whole another I'll save the CIS conversation for later I guess but um do you think that this is a sexist position to hold I think it could be I think that just in my position it was

Ali Corinasked of me that cismen were not included because it was to find other queer women to hang out with like I don't think that all spaces need to include everyone yeah sure I don't think like I think you could for example want

Brian Atlasto like associate with people of a certain group uh it's it's you're not necessarily trying to prude other people uh but the the justification for precluding other people seems to be I

Brian Atlashad one two or perhaps multiple poor experiences with cismen uh airo it wasn't just personal experiences it was just like the the way well that's the first thing you said so yes they've had

Ali Corina lot of them did but I'm just saying it's not all just personal experience of of like a trauma happened to me but just like movies portray men in dark shadows like if you want to go that deep of like not feeling safe in a group like this

Ali Coringroup was meant for like women to come and have pool parties and we hosted going to queer clubs and I just don't think that that number one would have fit in the space anyways but also with

Ali Corinthe majority of women in my group and by majority I mean like everyone but maybe one stating that they would not have felt safe to fully be themselves in that environment if a CIS man was there that speaks me and I didn't need to make a decision

Brian Atlaswould you be fine like with establishments also doing these kind of uh like uh ex exclusions like uh like a like a business for example I think that's harder I think like how do you like what about an all female gym and

Brian Atlasthey're like hey we've we acknowledge that women have had poor experiences with men so we're going to like exclude men from joining this gym and it's going to be an all women gym like would you be okay with that or I don't think it's like any of my business to say whether you can do it or not but I think if I

Ali Corinwere the business owner I don't know how you would pull something like that off off and still be inclusive like legally not legally just like respectfully on like if someone comes into a gym and you bring in like you're bringing in all kinds of conversations like a transom

Ali Corincomes in like how do you define who a transwoman is if they say they a trans woman at a woman's gym what I work at a woman's gym yeah see I think it women at ours right so I'm I'm just going to go ahead and Grant that if you were to

Brian Atlasstart a business you'd be allowed to have trans women I'm speaking about I personally don't like this term but CIS men yeah I think that that's fine why would it not be fine for the business to

Brian Atlasexclude CIS men yeah okay um and you so similarly then I assume you'd be fine with like businesses excluding CIS women like Banning them from being able to enter businesses and establishments okay

Ali Corinso you're like in favor of segregation what about uh what about gayman say that again what about gayman again you're coming down to like how are you going to Define like weren't all Queer clubs

Andrew Wilsonsupposed to be just for queer people straight men still go into vet women well here here I I'll Define it pretty easily if you're a part of a same-sex relationship and you're a male you can't thank you for a man explaining that to

Andrew Wilsonme I appreciate actually so much how do you I don't understand how do you say it depends on your definition and then when I give you the definition you call it man I'm that can you as a business owner

Andrew Wilsonwhen someone's coming to your door and you're going to turn them away like based on XYZ like that's just I mean I'm happy to give you the definition that you asked for the

Andrew Wilsondefinition would be two males who are same sex for sure and they're they only have sex with males you call them homosexuals and you want to ban them from the business there you go there's your definition I'm sorry that I had to

Ali Corinmanplay that for you giving you the definition that you asked for but there you go if if cumulatively gay men which I'm not saying they have or will um created an unsafe environment for the other people

Andrew Wilsonwho wanted to be in that business then I would AG with it so if if straight heterosexual CIS males said nobody except straight heterosexual CIS males can come to this gym you would agree with

Andrew Wilsonthat yes wasn't that what you just asked me I well I'm just clarifying I just wanted to yes or no so I mean so as as long as you're fine with that then the

Andrew Wilsoninclusivity uh portion of this if men wanted to have a gym um that was only exclusive to um heteronormative beh Behavior you wouldn't actually have an

Ali Corinissue with that just want just want to be clear I think that that's cornering someone into an answer that's super controversial it like it comes down to like what is the cause what is the reason is it for safety because because

Andrew Wilsonthey don't want them there is it for safety or is it to be ass sure sure just the just dealing with them could potentially create an unsafe situation for both parties right like if you were a bigot like just think about this

Andrew Wilsonlogically let's say that they were all just bigots they just actually just didn't like them because they were homosexuals how would that not create an unsafe situation by letting them in to

Ali Corinbegin with I just don't think that you can cumulatively have that many people unless you're like exclusively asking for it to be invited into a space like you're you're assuming that every man in

Andrew Wilsona gym is going to be a bigot or are you just saying that there's a bigot gym well no I'm saying that there's a let's say there's a gym which is bigoted on purpose cuz that's what they want right

Andrew Wilsonthey only want bigoted they want bigoted people to come to this gym that's the only thing that they care about is that you're uh what you would consider to be

Andrew Wilsona bigot they only want heteronormative CIS straight men in the gym that's it okay so so if that was the case and all of the men who were joining that gym

Andrew Wilsonhave the same type of ideology wouldn't it necessarily follow that it would be unsafe for somebody who didn't follow that suit that they would be unsafe just by trying to join it yeah I hear you and

Brian AtlasI mean like if they all want to meet up in one space and have that opinion for themselves and they can go for it I don't want to be there

Brian Atlasso a couple things a couple clarifying things I guess um would you it sounds like you're kind of okay with people like business owners being able to like

Brian Atlasdiscriminate is that a fair to discriminate no to create safe environments yes okay so like do and so this for gender do you think this is fair fair play correct can I ask you a

Ali Corinquestion a follow-up question can I answer your question with a question cuz you seem to do how about to answer my question then you can ask me a question and I'll answer your question no is there a reason why you're trying to Corner me into having a negative answer you did it at the beginning of our conversation too I how is it cornering

Ali Corinyou and what do you mean by negative answer every time I answer it with like a logical standpoint of like women should us women should all cumulatively

Ali Corinbe able to feel safe in environment and if we require being only with women mhm then isn't that just for safety like I don't understand the issue testing he's

Ali Corintesting the supposition yeah so I mean I don't think it's I'm not sure what you mean by cornering but no I just mean like every time I have a logical answer there's a follow-up question with like

Andrew Wilsonwhen people the word segregation put into it when people make um or have uh inductive reasoning which you're using right now which is fine right that's most most of the reasoning that most people use is

Andrew Wilsoninductive um most of the time it's not tested but most inductive reasoning is based around suppositions and suppositions which people hold so all that's happening when you say why are

Andrew Wilsonyou trying to Corner me into a negative answer that's the opposite like I just want to know that's the hang on hang on almost done that's the opposite of what's Happening he's trying to Corner you into an answer whether it's negative

Andrew Wilsonor positive it's totally irrelevant just trying to see where the inductive reasoning follows okay um but so I think I I was asking a question

Ali Corinthere um it sounded like you didn't want to answer it unless you do am I fine with businesses choosing who they want to do business for yes okay you're fine with that so like for example let's and

Brian Atlasyou said for safety reasons like that's enough justification for like wanting to preclude people from being able to participate in your business can you can you

Brian Atlasstop sure okay so if like a cooh or group of like white people for example felt unsafe around black people because they had anecdotal like they had their

Brian Atlasown poor experiences that came down to safety when it came to uh like actual experiences with black people and they said I don't want to allow black people into my businesses you'd be okay with

Ali Corinthat morally okay with it no do I think that it could happen law and morals are very different right yeah I agree with that why would it be immoral though what

Brian Atlasdo you mean why would that be I mean I was literally told I was not allowed to say certain words so oh well I mean it's more so like there's certain topics we have to avoid but like we can talk about racism we just don't want you to be

Brian Atlasracist on the show understood if that makes sense yeah yeah why I'm just wondering like we we don't want you to use slurs or like say the nword or like that sort of stuff so for sure I didn't hear what you said I'm

Andrew Wilsonsorry oh yeah no no problem so um I understand too when you have a video link like this it's difficult uh sometimes when you have a room full of people to communicate back and forth so

Andrew Wilsonuh that's actually a problem I have too uh but my question was uh why would that be actually a moral quandry for you if you if you don't have any actual um you know issues with it as a matter of law

Andrew Wilsonlet's say why would it why would it actually stand as a moral quandry because there's a racial issue there well it's wouldn't it be like a gender sex issue then for sure but what you're

Ali Corinsaying is like oh we have Quantified proof we have Quantified evidence this of you why people have made this group of white people unsafe

Ali Corinright what if you open up your Viewpoint and you look at the masses what if you say instead of looking at this group of people that chose it scientifically you can't just handpick

Ali Corinwhich group you want to use as a control right so if you're looking at everyone in the United States for example MH that's not the popular opinion so then I would say that that's not I

Andrew Wilsoncounter this would be countered to intersectionality though because intersectionality is literally making all of these groups into micro groups as controls just so that they can test for

Andrew Wilsonsuch offenses so if that is the case uh yeah buty referring to people we're having this conversation I couldn't actually think of a way that you could

Andrew Wilsoncreate controls better than to take micro groups and then apply whatever the idea of social injustice that particular group has and then um you know follow it

Ali Corinto its conclusion essentially like how else could you even do that as a control by choosing controls that don't know each other because in the hypothetical is that this group of people got together which mean they know well let's

Andrew Wilsonsay they didn't get together right but they all had kind of something of the same shared experience and they all wanted to get together like it it it seems like it's a kind of a silly distinction without Merit right not

Andrew Wilsonnecessarily if you're asking ask me how to find a control that's going back to the other conversation right yeah yeah but I mean even this if we if we have this as a control we could just we I mean we could just factor in whatever control you wanted to it still wouldn't

Andrew Wilsonreally get to the heart of the moral quandry if if One race or another race says they feel discriminated against based on a b c and d it's opinion based

Ali Corinyeah I get what you're saying I mean I totally hear your opinion I I I hear you however I think like when you're getting down to like morality I don't think that anything should be separated I don't think that anyone

Ali Corinshould fear for their life when they walk or roll down the street I don't think that you know any of this should be a topic of conversation because nobody should be put in a position where

Andrew Wilsonthey have to choose but we have yeah but you're but but what you're going off of isn't even brute facts it's just feelings right so you're going off the idea people feel unsafe they feel like

Andrew Wilsonbad things going to happen even if there is actually no kind of statistical data to back that up but that's a double-edged sword why couldn't the other group say the exact same thing in opposition this makes us feel unsafe

Ali Corinthis makes us feel discriminated against etc etc it' be the same exact thing for sure I hear what you're saying however again it comes down to like history and facts and whenever you add the two

Ali Corintogether I create emotion you create emotion Emotions Don't just fly at you and hit you in the head like they come from a place based in fact based in

Ali Corinhistory that's come from a place based in fact that's no I'm saying it's you don't just get an emotion because it whacks you in the head it comes from somewhere you have something that influences you and then you have an emotion I'm just saying or you have

Andrew Wilsonnothing that influences you and you have an emotion because biology is strange right so it's like even even that statement in and of itself is kind of silly but if you if you were to back it up right and look it uh cuz what you're

Andrew Wilsonwhat you're saying is let's look at the macro versus the micro I think that's fair right I think that that's fair to say I want to look at kind of all the entire picture instead of the micro picture but that would the only way to

Andrew Wilsonget a clear picture of the macro would be for you to use intersectional logic right so you would have to come in and say this group and this group and this gr even in fact when you even reference historical standards you could only

Andrew Wilsonapply them through the prism of the group that's that would be like feminist standpoint theory for instance feminists say well history should be revised through the lens of women otherwise how could you really know what their lived

Andrew Wilsonexperience was but wouldn't that be the same case with any group I mean I guess it could be I it just comes down to like when you're asking my

Ali Corinopinion I base it off of supporting what has happened again you can go down to intersectionality and crossover and this and that and for each

Ali Corinand every scenario that you could come up with I'm going to tell you like if it creates a safe environment where there are already was not one more power to you do I want to be a part of all of those situations most likely not but

Andrew Wilsonwould you only my follow-up question to this then is would you only base that around how people felt if they felt safe versus if there was an objective standard for no that's why I was saying

Andrew Wilsonlike I understand if they were to say okay so if that's the case then if there were such discriminatory gym let's say who only discriminated against people

Andrew Wilsonwho were lgbtq in this in this particular instance and the lgbtq people felt unsafe due to that however the brute fact was not that they were

Ali Corinactually unsafe then who do we side with there I don't think you side with anyone I think that that's just I

Ali Corinlisten to side with one side on on any situation you can give me I don't agree with I think that you should put yourself in each and everyone's shoes not to say I could ever actually

Ali Corinknow what that person is going through but the only way we're going to find any kind of unity any kind of you know level common ground is by trying to start to understand other people's lived

Andrew Wilsonexperiences yeah sure but but what if you do understand their lived experience I don't you based on your even based on your lived experience and what you're telling me from your emotional standpoint still reject it because

Andrew Wilsonapplied in the real world doesn't make any sense or it's silly or I just have a fundamental disagreement with it the idea that you can just kind of uh partake in someone's shoes and then

Andrew Wilsonthrough an empathetic link uh discover that you have more shared in common than not I think that there's some possibility there however I also think that there's good logical reputations

Andrew Wilsonthat you can make for why you should often ignore the empathetic experience and ignore why it is that people want you to walk a mile in their shoes it's

Ali Corinoften detrimental to you to do so right that's your opinion you don't think so I think that it could be in a scenario if you gave them when I agreed with but like I can't just blanketly agree with a

Andrew Wilsonvague scenario well here's a good example of it let's take a a principle that you're talking about here which is a harm principle based around safety if you were to say for instance uh so I'm

Andrew Wilsonan Orthodox Christian if you were to say that uh Andrew it causes great harm for you to not use a person's gendered pronouns it causes him harm causes him

Andrew Wilsonsome degree of suffering and some degree of discomfort I could equally counter with but as an Orthodox Christian it causes me a great degree of discomfort to lie to them because from my worldview

Andrew Wilsonthat's exactly what I'm doing now in this case you have to put yourself in my shoes and empathize with me while I empathize with you who do we side with

Ali Corinhere I if you're an Orthodox Christian isn't there something that says that you should love others equally and not judge

Andrew Wilsonisn't that the same harm you're doing to yourself no first of all of course you can righteously judge this is a Biblical principle and without righteous judgment you could never actually do a condemnation of sin ever so you have to

Andrew Wilsonhave righteous judgment but not only that the idea here is even if this was the case that um that that you're supposed to show love and you are it's

Andrew Wilsonnot loving to tell the truth and from the prism of the Christian they believe they're telling the truth and that you're lying and demanding they L that's

Ali Corintheir lived experience that's their worldview okay their Liv worldview than I would say for that person to exit the scenario that's when you walk away you don't cause any kind of hoopla and you

Andrew Wilsonjust go because you can't change everyone's opinion you can't change everyone why hang on see what I mean why don't they go that's what I'm referring to yeah they go so so in in the case of a oh you're in a convenience store or

Andrew Wilsonsomething like this somebody says somebody says it's ma'am and you say no it's sir why are they

Ali Corinwrong in their own opinion they're not wrong and I get what you're getting at I get what you're getting at but telling them to leave now you're opening a whole other book well who do we side with I don't know I I feel like this is

Ali Corinsuch a controversial thing trying to get into the like as a Christian how is it more important to you to not lie than to be a kind human and not harm others well you're you're asking for a conflict in

Andrew Wilsonprinciple why can't why can't I say that I think it's the greatest kindness not to lie to individuals and so I don't and this upholds the Christian ethics and principles but from your worldview you

Andrew Wilsonsay but Andrew this does harm to us because ites almost done almost done because it makes us feel bad makes us feel terrible this type of thing it's like that's fair but I still need to know how do we how

Ali Corindo we decide these threshold Breakers exactly okay I have genuinely a a question I would love to hear your answer on you're say you're religion again can he answer mine and then I'll

Ali Corinanswer yours that's fine but I okay answer mine and then I'll answer yours that's fair who should I side with I don't have an answer I think each each person is on their own side and if I

Ali Corinwere to walk in personally me myself in that scenario Mario I would diffuse the situation because neither one is going to change either person's mind you are entitled to your own opinion how do you diffuse

Ali Corinit go up and actually be a kind human being and say hey I totally get that you guys have differences here but let's just walk away there is literally no point in continuing having confrontation like that other than to cause a scene so

Andrew Wilsonwell I mean so you your expectations that these people are still going to get along well even though one demands that the other from their worldview lies to them I never said you had to get along other one demand from their their

Ali Corinworldview that you what you need to tell me is what I consider the truth to be I never said that you had to get along hold on wait you want to you want to cut me off when you're talking then I if I have space to answer your question I

Ali Corinnever said that they had to get along I said diffuse the situation and separate because I don't think that every opinion has to mesh with every opinion you walk away and you let it be so then the ultimate the kind of the ultimate

Andrew Wilsonlogical entailment here is the idea that group should segregate from each other if you choose to not be a part of a group mhm that's your choice yeah I know but the ultimate entailment of your

Ali Corinlogic here is that groups should actually segregate away from each other because you say there's no answer to these questions no I think that people who have conf if they come into contact no that's not true some people are [ __ ] and some people aren't some

Andrew Wilsonpeople can turn a blind eye and say have a nice day who's the [ __ ] in this situation you could just who the [ __ ] in this situation tell me not use a gender who's the [ __ ] in this

Andrew Wilsonsituation you know who the [ __ ] is in this situation no I don't I want you to tell me who's the [ __ ] in the situation the [ __ ] in the situation is the one who's provoking the person who's literally done nothing wrong well which one is

Andrew Wilsonthat Jesus Christ yeah you don't know right this is the whole problem with intersectionality it's fool this is the whole problem with the foolishness this ideology the entailment of it what

Andrew Wilsonideology is always is always that is going to lead to we can't actually if we're going to only use empathy as a metric or even empathy plus brute facts and you say well give me a

Andrew Wilsonspecific example Andrew of where we're going to end up coming into conflict well now I've just given you an example of two different groups have two different ideologies great okay I will answer your question in that scenario the one who continues to provoke is the

Ali Corin[ __ ] even if that is the person who has the differ gender and you do not agree with them if they're coming up to you and they're being a complete piece of [ __ ] and causing a scene then would tell you that that person is the [ __ ] yeah but you got a problem with that too

Andrew Wilsonwhich is that what is considered a provocation cannot be what is true so if that is the case what both think they're telling the truth the one says I'm not pro I'm not referring to what I think

Andrew Wilsonthe truth is hang on hang on I just let you answer let me answer so if the idea here is the one says to him listen uh I'm not provoking I'm just demanding

Andrew Wilsonbasic human respect that they don't misgender me the other one says I'm not provoking I'm just demanding that you don't say that I must lie because you're provoking right in this particular case

Ali Corinyou consider uh neither of those or both of them to be provocations in this scenario if they're having a calm conversation they're having a debate about who's right and

Andrew Wilsonwho's wrong and they can finally isn't that what you just described one saying I'm right and the other one's saying I'm right let's say having a pissing fight whatever you want to call store yeah let's say just in a

Andrew Wilsongrocery store and and let's say the Orthodox Christian in this case looks over and he says something like this uh hello sir you want me to grab that for

Andrew Wilsonyou the the person they're talking to looks over and says actually I'm a woman okay so I'd appreciate if you address me as ma'am okay the Orthodox Christian says well I'm not going to do that

Andrew Wilsonbecause I don't believe that you are this thing that you're claiming you are not for my worldview and the other one says but I am from my worldview your reconciliation for this situation is

Ali Corinseparation if that is the case then the advocation would ultimately be segregation that's a stretch but my opinion is that how is it a stretch okay

Ali Corindo I get to answer like with a full sentence go ahead before you okay great um what you're implying is that someone needs to win in

Andrew Wilsonthis scenario right like someone needs to come out on top or we need to segregate them yes well I don't know how you reconcile it if one feels like they don't have

Andrew Wilsonbasic human respect or dignity from the one group and the other group feels like they're not getting the basic respect and dignity due to their group because they're being they're being told they must lie how exactly do you expect to

Ali Corinreconcile that I don't think all things need reconciliation especially in a grocery store when you're just minding your business it is not segregation when you have free speech and you can just say what you want to say what else would it be how how else would they get on

Andrew Wilsonthen they move on with their lives and they forget about it yeah okay but if you're in various communities you have various communities where you have uh you know various people in them the idea

Andrew Wilsonhere is that you're saying neither side is wrong neither side is wrong both sides are are right your they're both right mhm so they can't necessarily if

Andrew Wilsonthey're both right right then both of them have leg to stand on in order to make their case that they deserve to be able to say what is true from their different perspective that's necessarily going to lead to conflict and you just

Ali Corinsaid the whole point here I don't think it should always lead to conflict I think that there's just some things that we have differences about and instead of creating conflict you can just have

Ali Corindifferences yeah but what if those in this scenario you are the issue you are persisting on creating conflict when I in my scenario in the same example you're giving me if I were the person if

Ali CorinI did identify as something I was not born as I would politely just say thank you for your help but I actually have to go and now I've diffused the situation you asked me how I would diffuse it boom

Ali Corindone yeah sure but have you had your basic human dignity in some way violated if it were me personally no because this human being is never going to see me again if I have anything to do with it perhaps not you but you would say that

Andrew Wilsonmost people who are in that situation would at least feel that way yeah mhm yeah so I mean if they do then why would they want to subject themselves to that all the time from this group they

Andrew Wilsonclearly wouldn't they would try to what probably oh I don't know separate themselves from it

Ali Corinyeah I'm impressed with the way that you can work around words however I still don't believe that it's segregation I believe that there are differences in all humans and you want to talk about like the basis of America we can get

Ali Corinreal deep in you're doing is changing the argument instead of answering to it I did answer neither one is wrong and everyone is entitled to their own opinion and there is no conflict unless

Andrew Wilsonyou create it yeah well and I appreciate the compliment of me being such a fine Wordsmith um I feel like I'm dumbing this down quite a bit make sure that we can get the actual answer

Andrew WilsonI the idea here is like but I don't believe that but when you say I don't believe that but at the same time you feel like almost everybody in that group would feel like they had their basic kind of human dignity violated in some

Andrew Wilsonway so the order of the day in order to not create conflict would be to separate themselves from those people no I don't well then how would they how exactly would you deal with it then without

Ali Corinhaving your B human dignity violated I don't I don't actually get that do you genuinely think that humans as a whole can go throughout life without becoming offended in some way or having their basic dignity violated because you're

Ali Corinreferring to Christianity and their belief system so you're having your belief system violated so your dignity in other words as you've strung them together yeah and that necessarily creates conflict

Ali Corindignity is because you've created conflict out of it that's what I'm saying I just don't think have to cre conflict out of it it's that you can't always walk away you can when your dignity is being violated right maybe you are incapable of walking away

Ali Corinwhenever your dignity is violated but when mine is because it happens all the time it comes with the chair comes with the hair comes with people calling me it as they did at the beginning of the show

Ali CorinI take Grace and I say have a very nice day no I don't me personally wait what are you going to do hang on what's your answer you're going to do what I would diffuse that part of the conversation

Ali Corinnow if you're talking about actually separating I don't I spoke in my town walking away right oh okay are you ready yeah how would you diffuse it you would walk away yeah from that specific situation with that specific

Ali Corinconversation and that specific person yes from that person as a whole from that person as a whole no so then why I would also be open

Andrew WilsonRel if you yourself would want to want to separate yourself from that situation in order to avoid conflict it stands to reason that most people in your situation would want to do the same thing if this is a case that they want

Andrew Wilsonto separate themselves which been my point the entire time right why in the future would they want to engage with the same person not going to back off on their Laurels of uh no I won't lie to

Ali Corinyou to create change to create a opinionated change because I think that you know you're you're running on the basis that like it is wrong for you to lie it is wrong for someone to ask you

Ali Corinto lie right right okay so if you and I were be sitting in a room and having a conversation oneon-one as human beings speaking about the human existence I think that I would want to

Ali Corinopen up conversation of like why you feel that way and why you feel the need to present your opinion as the dominant and correct opinion instead of being a

Ali Corinkind human person I think that creating space between people is only going to create conflict creating dist of itself you done okay

Andrew Wilsongreat so can I finish cuz you did that to me well I is it going to take you forever to finish it took you forever to finish it didn't take me very long if you want to recap on the conversation you've had far more speaking time than

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