Feminist WANTS Traditional Man?! SHAMES "Cheap" Men Who DO NOT Pay For Dates?! | Dating Talk #190

Date: 2024-08-26

Duration: 7h 16m

Guests

Brian Atlas

PPayton (pay_irl)>

MMadison (SBCC)>

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00(audience)

SPEAKER_02Liz(guest)

SPEAKER_04Madison(guest)

SPEAKER_05Payton(guest)

SPEAKER_06Jordan(guest)

SPEAKER_07Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_11Sarah(guest)

SPEAKER_12Stacy(guest)

SPEAKER_13Pearl(guest)

SPEAKER_14Ava(guest)

Key Moments

OtherPearl Bots sings "At Last" live on the show; studied opera (coloratura soprano).

“Brian asks Pearl to sing. She performs "At Last" (Etta James). Brian then requests Queen of the Night (Magic Flute). Pearl declines without extra compensation.”

OtherPearl's viral TikTok demonstrated live: "I use this hack to shame cheap men who split the bill."

“Brian pulls up NY Post article covering Pearl's viral TikTok (millions of views). Pearl performs the bit: when man wants to split, she says "Oh I didn't know this was a friend date." Pearl clarifies she didn't intend it as an actionable hack, just content.”

ControversyBrian argues Pearl cherry-picks leadership: wants man to lead on dates but rejects leadership when inconvenient.

“Brian points out Pearl appreciates a man who initiates, plans, and pays for dates, but resists deferring on the bikini-at-party issue. "You only want a leader when it benefits you." Pearl responds with a yin-yang model of leadership in relationships.”

ControversyExtended role-play debate: Pearl demands Brian explain WHY he doesn't want her at the party.

“Brian role-plays as Pearl's boyfriend saying "no" to her attending a party. Pearl keeps asking for more explanation. Brian argues "no" is a sufficient sentence from a leader. Pearl argues good leadership communicates reasoning. Brian accuses her of only wanting leadership when it benefits her.”

OtherPearl refuses to give a numeric self-rating, arguing women should think of themselves as tens.

“Brian asks guests to rate themselves 1-10. Pearl refuses to give a number, arguing women should operate with a "10 mindset" for confidence. Extended debate with Brian and Jordan about whether this is healthy vs delusional.”

OtherPearl announces she is a feminist; Brian and Payton push back given her preference for men to pay.

“Pearl calls herself a feminist (soft/equity definition). Payton says she is anti-feminist. Brian says Pearl's feminism is inconsistent with wanting men to pay for dates. "Just be a feminist you're a focus" — Brian says she can't have it both ways.”

OtherBody count round: Pearl 7, Jordan 7, Sarah 3; others decline.

“Viewer TTS prompts body count discussion. Jordan body count: 7 (from TTS readback). Pearl: 7. Sarah: 3. Stacy, Liz, Ava, and Madison decline to answer.”

OtherBrian reads live a text he sent to a girlfriend about vaginal odor; Madison helped write it.

“Brian recounts texting an ex about personal hygiene (vaginal odor). He reads the text verbatim. Madison helped craft it. Woman he texted broke off contact after receiving the message.”

Topics Discussed

Show intro and guest introductions

Brian opens show with standard announcements. Guests introduce name, age, location, occupation. Pearl sings "At Last" (Etta James) at Brian's request; also studied opera. Jordan, Payton, Stacy, Liz, Sarah, Madison, Ava each introduce themselves.

Relationship status round

Pearl: dating exclusively ~2 months (not official). Jordan: married 6 years. Payton: single 7 years, celibate 4 years (Catholic; returning guest, discussed before). Stacy: married 21.5 years. Liz: newly single ~3 weeks (broke up with Navy man stationed in Japan after visiting). Sarah: single; has 2 sons from an on-off relationship. Madison: in ~2-year relationship. Ava: in 5-year relationship.

Bikini/party debate: should girlfriends go to parties in bikinis?

Discussion triggered by viewer donation about girlfriend going to pool party in bikini against his wishes. Brian argues commitment-minded men reasonably limit girlfriends' attendance at singles-oriented social events. Pearl pushes back on "no" without explanation being sufficient leadership communication. Jordan and Stacy agree women should defer to partner's preferences. Role play between Brian and Pearl on the communication of a "no" in a relationship. Debate on whether women's indirect flirting (posting, going out) is analogous to men approaching.

Self-ratings round (1-10 scale)

Viewer "Stiffler" requests self-ratings. Pearl: refuses numeric, says she considers herself a 10 philosophically. Payton: delusional 10, realistic 5. Stacy: no numeric (all women are 10s framing via Sarah). Viewer TTS: Jordan body count [?], Pearl body count 7. Debate on whether women should think of themselves as 10s for confidence vs delusion.

Aging and female attractiveness

Are guests better looking now than 10 years ago? Will they be better looking in 10 years? Pearl (32): thinks she'll still be a 10 at 52. Jordan (26): thinks she looks better now. Stacy (47): confirmed better looking in youth. Brian argues biology causes female attractiveness to peak and decline.

Age gap relationships

Discussion of what constitutes an age gap (5+ years per consensus). Payton mentions older men who date younger women may be seeking someone to fund their college. Brian distinguishes comfort/guidance attraction from exploitation.

Pearl's viral TikTok: shaming men who want to split the bill

Brian pulls up NY Post article about Pearl's viral TikTok (millions of views): "I use this hack to shame cheap men who want to split the bill." Pearl demonstrates the TikTok bit: "Oh I didn't know you wanted to just be friends." Discussion of who should pay on a first date. All panelists: man should pay if he asked her out. Pearl: expects first date to be paid for, does not recommend the hack per se. Brian asks Pearl to reconcile feminist self-identification with wanting men to pay.

Women in the military / draft debate

Should women be drafted? Payton: yes (equality argument), but anti-feminist overall. Sarah: yes, drafted equally. Jordan: believes women have important role at home (especially mothers). Stacy: nuanced — both parents shouldn't be drafted from same family. Brian: supports drafting women as equality issue.

Makeup: deception or self-care?

Is wearing makeup deceptive to men? Brian argues full-face makeup is more deceptive than minimal makeup. Push-up bras mentioned similarly. Jordan: there's a difference between natural and full-beat glam. Some guests willing to remove makeup on camera; Brian says he already rated them with it on.

Man vs bear debate

Would you rather be alone with a random man or a random bear in the forest? Most guests choose bear, citing the viral TikTok. Liz says she'd pick bear but acknowledges she was influenced by the video. Ava (podcast staff) chooses man. Brian and panel discuss what percentage of men would actually harm a woman.

Feminist identity debate: Pearl vs panel

Brian challenges Pearl on calling herself a feminist while wanting men to pay for dates. Pearl clarifies she is a soft/equity feminist, not an equality-of-outcome feminist. Payton declares herself anti-feminist (does not believe in modern feminism). Brian argues Pearl cherry-picks leadership benefits without accepting leadership constraints.

Body count discussion

Does body count matter? Jordan: body count 7 (stated via TTS readback). Pearl: body count 7. Sarah: 3. Stacy and Ava: no comment. Madison declined to answer. Majority of panel said body count matters in some degree.

Telling a partner uncomfortable truths

Brian shares a text he sent to a girlfriend about vaginal odor — reads it live. Madison helped him write it. Panel discusses how to tell a friend or partner uncomfortable truths about weight, hygiene, etc. Payton: would tell a friend directly if they were gaining too much weight. WW1 trivia round closes the show.

Transcript

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Pearleating an apple what you got you got the sternum no I have a yinyang that's so I have mushrooms I have a meat I have a heart with a me on it wait you have a heart

Pearlwith a me I have a heart and it says me inside of it a so the mushroom one and the heart with a me uhhuh and a yinyang and I have some Latin text Latin Latin

Brian Atlasyeah from Augustine's confessions what what's it he's a theologian word yeah it's beautiful those are my tats okay the mushroom

Pearlone's a little uh red flaggy is it or do it me mushrooms are incredible have you guys seen fantastic fungi they're like an incredible like web of like neurons and they like basically the reason we

Pearlcan exist is because of mushrooms you should watch fantastic fungi really informative really beautiful what you're saying we exist because of mushrooms well our world continues it's a it's a

Pearlreally integral part of our ecosystem because fungi are what like eat what's decaying so if we didn't have fungi our world would just be full of decaying

Brian Atlasis that a but isn't that like a psilocybin mushroom is this a psilocybin mushroom yeah isn't that no like what is it Portell what you got it's

Brian Atlasjust a it's cute but it's like a psychedelic mushroom no oh you just have you have like just an an edible non- psychedelic mushroom on you yeah it has nothing to do with psychedelics I mean I

Pearllike psychedelic mushrooms as well okay there you go but it's not that's not just what it represents it's everything I love all mushrooms including the Psychedelic ones

Pearlword word when's the last time you did psychedelic mushrooms yeah I don't know a couple months ago she's like last night she like I'm on

Jordanthis morning she's like I'm on her right now I wish I was right now you're all aliens what you got Jordan what you got for us I've got some Russian lettering

JordanBible scripture walk by faith not by sight okay I've got some roses got a cute little d Dove behind my ear word

Jordanand I've got um oh yeah I've got my back can you can you turn yeah

Jordanyeah oh all right there you go go down my spine and then that's it a couple little dainy fingers that little angel my IND sternum nope no sternum okay n

Stacyall right what about you tats noell I have no tattoos and I'm never going to have any what about you what you got the story is changed I have a lot okay um I don't know where to begin I have a

Stacylittle sis my sister has one that says big sis I got this July 6th that is um I can only imagine it's the actual lyrics

Stacyto the song I have the Roses I have um for a memorial to all the animals that I've lost and this is scripture stating that for all the people that I've lost

Stacyin my life that one day when we go be with Jesus we won't have any more suffering mhm okay um my calf my full left calf is a Dave the dead girl my right ankle I have

Stacyuh Hearts around it and my back I have a Gothic heart and then the notorious stamp so you have a you have a stamp I do but I got it when I was 30 years old and married it doesn't say

Brian AtlasYOLO though right it no it does not I feel maybe the the panel in the CH chat those of you watching is it the case that the sternum

Sarahtattoo this one I think this is the the new stamp it's the Stamp of anybody here have I feel attacked you you

Brian Atlasgot I do think it is the Stamp of the of the mid 210s until now tattoos yeah I have my

Lizwhole spine it's can we see well you can't really see cuz my shirt's covering on all okay that's fine um it's just like a half a Bible verse and then I have my hip it's a rose and then just

Sarahlike a dainty one behind my ear and then one on my ankle H okay what about you um I have I think I have like seven or eight um I have I don't like any of them

Sarahbut this has Euphoria okay I have van the world vanity which I highly regret I have flowers on my back I have this which I match with father my children I have asum it's a cross it's like like

Brian Atlaskind of looks like a star but it's a cross um I can't remember if I have any more okay uh the sternum tattoos across

Sarahit is okay and to be fair and to defend myself I feel like because I don't have anything up here it's not like as provocative but I still regret it I just

Brian Atlasdon't want tattoos I just want them all gone I mean to to uh to be fair to be charitable the sternum tattoo I take the

Brian Atlasmost issue with is the like chandelier one that like every it's like the basic chandelier I do agree you have your sternum tattoo is a little different

Brian Atlasstill a sternum tattoo but it's not like the basic here's a chandelier Rose I don't know what the they're doing I don't know that that's like the

Brian Atlasred flag for me no offense Maddie you got tattoos Eva tattoos any tattoos no all right uh let's get through the rest of the chats and then we'll get into the

Brian Atlaspre-show guys we got some good questions got some good questions coming up here let's see uh grid One Motorsports this panel is putting me to sleep uh how important

Brian Atlasis a man's political ideals to the ladies starting with Jordan how important are the political ideas to you

Jordanfor your man pretty important at least that everything pardon your husbands what about them you guys agree on everything politically pretty much

Jordanyeah we do but he's not very like he's not really as much into Politics As I Am A lot of the politics he knows is because I've talked to him about it or told him about it

Paytonokay um it would only be important if he leans the same way if he doesn't lean the same way I do if he doesn't care about politics at all then it I don't

Stacythink it would become an issue mhm mhm so religious is more important than political to me and uh my husband

Stacyand I both are the same religion and because of that our our political views are the same so it is extremely important yeah I'm going to have to second with her on that one yeah I Echo

Madisonthe last two it used to not be important to me but now it is I think because the person I'm with I actually want to start a

Brian Atlasfamily with so it is really important now okay oh kill cereal donated $200 alien I'll just change it to uh would you date an

Brian Atlasalien I'll just would you date a guy who owned a firearm like okay first hold on let me change it uh you go to his house first time at his house and he has an AR-15 by his

SPEAKER_03bedside red flag green flag green green green Green I'm fine with that green I like this

Brian Atlaspanel all right new date you both hit off chemistry The Works he she invites you back to their place you walk through the door and see a bookcase what book do you see that makes you turn and leave

Jordanimmediately starting with you go ahead I don't know what Communist

JordanManifesto um yeah maybe something along those lines okay is he saying that their pronouns are he she

Paytonwhat that was a joke sorry um if he had Joe Biden's book that's when I would leave okay yeah I agree what she said okay yeah it would have to be if

Lizthey were going in a certain direction that I don't go in so there's like this book I don't remember exactly what it's called but

Lizit's basically like how to manipulate and I had a friend whose ex had that book and it was like the worst relationship she was like ever in so I was like

Sarahoh I'm going to go ahead and say I don't have a book that would be a red flag but if they didn't have a Bible I would leave for sure I feel like any girly book like any book that every girl's

Jordanread yeah I don't I don't really know maybe like a book on how to get away with murder yeah that's a pretty big red flag yeah if she had like any it's a very

Brian Atlasgood Netflix series though if she had uh White fragility by ro what's her D'Angelo whatever the any like d or sjw

Jordannonsense but if they were smart like why would they have a hard copy of any of these insane books like wouldn't they just have the it's a good question copy on the phone question

Brian Atlaslet's see so okay getting into some of the pre-show notes for the show uh before we get to Pearl actually I'll get Jordan you've been on before so I'll come back to some of your notes uh let's

Brian Atlassee we have hold on guys getting to my notes what's something juicy to jump

Brian Atlasinto uh Sarah going back to you uh you said that you were dating a guy you have two kids with him uh two sons right mhm

Brian Atlasuh is he in the picture like do you guys co-parent yeah are they're actually with him right now oh okay yeah and is it split custody 50/50 it's split custody

Brian Atlasand did you guys uh handle this informally or was it through the court it was through the court who brought it to court him or you I did twice uh why

Sarahum Reasons I'm not not necessarily allowed to State publicly until the boys are older okay um do you receive child support from [Music]

Sarahhim yes but I'm not necessarily paid it if that makes sense there's a court order for child support but he he

Sarahdoesn't pay it or right I I definitely like um I'm actually like trying to create like amicability between us because I know

Sarahwhat it does for like children um or what it's done what it does like I have friends even I grew up like not even in a in a difficult home but like I have so

Sarahmany split friend split home like friends mhm so I'm trying to have like meetings with uh dad or dad's parents to try to become amicable because we've

Sarahlike we were functioning pretty healthily up until I went to court so like that was the issue was like they didn't want any like parameters in place okay other than that it has always been

Sarahlike amicable just under the circumstances of me making it a legal thing they didn't like that but there were points where I almost felt well I

Sarahdefinitely felt the need to wait who is they cuz you said they so I personally feel that what I'm going through in custody is not

Sarahnecessarily with Dad it's with f family of Dad if that makes sense like I don't feel like the I don't want to

Sarahcall it like a fight I feel like the sharing of custody is more so with other people not specifically dad which so he has like parents grandparents maybe

Sarahhelping out that sort of thing yeah he he lives with his entire family okay um which is good our children like have

Brian Atlasaccess to so much love and resources mhm I see okay and was he um was paying is

Sarahthe custody Arrangement you said is it 50/50 yes okay physical custody and legal custody yes he has schooling I don't

Sarahthink I'm allowed to share it honestly he has some rights I have other rights and it was split because um it was felt that there was a lot of

Sarahanimosity so there needed to be which I think is healthy and I appreciate

Brian Atlaswait were did you did you want more custody than you currently have like did you want full

Sarahcustody selfishly I would love it but I don't know what's going on behind closed doors and I know that God sees everything that happens so like whatever the path that

Sarahwe've been brought down like I definitely see how God has like or orchestrated all of it and I just like have faith that if this is what it is right now it's only

Sarahbecause there is a healthy component to it like prayerfully I am always like Consulting with God and I'm saying like if this is not what's best for for my

Sarahchildren for our children like I would love to raise them 100% of the time but if D is like on the right path and God sees that and sees him fit then like I

Sarahappreciate what the C ances are right now which according to our situation it seems it would be

Sarahso so you wanted 100% custody only if their their dad is like

Sarahnot doing what he should like I don't want to I don't want to be like selfish and rid my children of the experience to not have a dad like I I grew up with a

Sarahsingle mom and I didn't have access to that not not her fault but like if they have the opportunity to have a dad who loves and cares for them and then if I was like say to Remar then they'd have

Brian Atlastwo dads like I want them to be surrounded by as much love as they can uh are there lawyers involved yeah I have a

Brian Atlaslawyer okay and was was he not spending enough time with them before you or like him and his family not spending enough time before you went to court or was he

Sarahwanting more time there was a lot of because his life has fluctuated so

Sarahmuch and his his it's just periodic it's just periodic the the times where like he would be absent and where he would be

Brian Atlaspresent so are you at Liberty to speak on what precipitated you wanting to make a legal matter and going to court cuz

Brian Atlasyou were you seeking specifically child support was it were you seeking so you were seeking so what was he TR before it went

Sarahto court what was the arrangement he was trying to get 50/50 custody I'm notal I'm not necessarily going to share details because I don't know what I'm allowed to share mhm um

SPEAKER_00there were definitely reasons why I went I was very hesitant to take it to court I I prayed about it for a very ne2000 donated

SPEAKER_00$200 panel if your ex has formed a club to discuss you what would they call it and what would be the club's main activity well come uh okay we can do that really quick

Brian Atlaswe'll come back to this though um go ahead Pearl into the mic man into M into the

Pearlmic if my exes formed a club to discuss me what would they call it um I miss Pearl and the main thing that

Pearlthey would discuss is probably how I changed their life for the better is that true probably yeah All My

JordanExes have great things to say about me okay cool my ex would love to help me back he'd probably say he'd probably name his

StacyClub Best I Ever Had okay you were probably up in hear it go ahead I I've been married so long that honestly I really didn't have a

Lizwhole lot of boyfriends probably yeah they don't have anything bad to say about me either so it probably be like the one that got away

Sarahokay go ahead um I'd say killed with kindness I don't know I've only had one

Brian AtlasX all right negative -200 appreciate it okay so you're currently um is there a it's not really like in court anymore though right like it's already kind of

Brian Atlasbeen the whole custody Arrangement has been determined is that correct or is it still like ongoing in court no we're not like we're not

Brian Atlasgoing to court we haven't gone yeah no no I mean it's still under the purview of the court but it's not you're not like currently figuring out the

Brian Atlasarrangement the arrangements been determined right okay um well I guess my question was

Brian Atlasuh it sounded like going in so when you went to the court where you like I want full custody

Sarahthe first time yes the second time it was more so I wanted things to be evaluated to see what somebody saw fit

Sarahokay and and the evaluation came back with half 50/50 the first time I was like getting the majority um and he had visitation the

Brian Atlassecond time it was half oh so the first time that there was a court order you got more custody right and then he was was he dissatisfied with

Sarahthis and then he went to the court and requested more no custody I when we had our first custody agreement is when we tried to get back together and then when we tried

Sarahto get back together um there was a little more unhealth than there had been before okay so I just decided to go back

Brian AtlasI see okay interesting okay um but you said there is a child support order but he does not pay it is that

Brian Atlascreating conflict in the when it comes to the legal proceedings no um I actually like or do you pay him child support No I um

SarahI think everybody around me like thinks that I should be receiving money like exceedingly more but I'm personally like fine

Sarahwithout like it's a very low amount so I could live without it and so I'm just

Brian Atlasyeah if uh if the court were to award

Brian Atlasyou 100% custody but he desired to be uh you had Soul custody but he

Brian Atlasdesired to still want to see the child do visitation and perhaps even have uh informal custody like say 50% of the

Brian Atlastime but the the court technically gave you 100% custody would you uh withhold from him his

Brian Atlasuh ability to see the child no okay well then why did you bring it to court in the first place I'm not allowed to speak on that okay that's fair yeah all right

Brian Atlasum and it sounded like the relationship was to some degree a bit amicable perhaps there's some conflict but have

Brian Atlaswhen you brought it to court that made things adversarial right okay do you um regret bringing it to court retrospectively no okay so you

Brian Atlasthink now that all is said and done it was dis desite perhaps the money spent and the stress involved with the process you think it was uh for the better of

Sarahboth of you and for the better of the child um I don't I serve God not money so I don't really care about money so

Sarahlong as my kids are okay MH and like my children have been given to me by God so um I going to court brought me huge

Sarahcomfort because now there are parameters in place that like if somebody does something we it will be

Sarahknown um and I have I'm just freed from a lot of worry because a lot of things were resolved a lot of things were realized

Sarahand a lot of things were put in place to keep the children safe like our children safe and I can't specify what those things are but okay yeah

Brian Atlasbut when it comes I suppose to the actual custody Arrangement you went in wanting 100% it sounded like he didn't want at least from what you've told us it sounded like he did want to be in the

Brian Atlaskids' lives he wanted to be involved the family wanted to be involved so you wanted 100% but now you've just the

Brian Atlascurrent custody rangement is 50/50 custody and I know there's some things you can't speak on but I guess there's a point of confusion on my end where you

Brian Atlaswent to court seeking one thing hoping to get one thing but you ultimately he still has 50/50 there's 50/50 custody I understand that now that there's

Sarahstructure you now have a bit more structure to it but at what cost so I just want to make it clear I did not go in seeking 100% custody it wasn't like

Sarahthis I want the kids all to myself type of thing mhm I just want I just felt at the time that like they would have been um more protected and just to be

Sarahclear when when I had the majority of custody I was very like even when I was when we had our first custody Arrangement and I had

Sarahmajority of custody when we tried to work things out like I mean I I we were pregnant with our second son and I was driving like for Dad to see our child even when he was in a place where he was

Sarahwasn't necessarily like like he was eager to see him but I was just more so trying to like help Dad and encourage him to have relationship so like by no means was it like I want 100% custody and to like withhold our

Sarahchildren from their dad it was more so like I want him in their lives but I really want to keep them safe and since

Sarahfamily was not helping me to do that most of the time I needed to have legal help

Brian Atlasdoes that make sense um was there a particular family member that is now barred from seeing the child

Sarahno well I'm a little confused on this safety component I just can't share I just can't share um but what I do what I can tell you is

Sarahthat um at a at the time that I opened in court the second time and even the first time there were huge there were huge issues going on that have

Brian Atlasthankfully since then been dissolved like or for the for the like right now they are not an issue okay that's fine um and just

Brian Atlascurious did you say the legal proceedings started while you were pregnant with your second child no just shortly after he was born okay so there weren't legal proceedings

Sarahprior to the birth of the second child no no I mean of course after our first child but oh so that dissolved within the time that like we tried to

Brian Atlaswork out our relationship which is why I had to like reopen sure okay uh let's see I'll read a couple chats then we'll move it on we

SPEAKER_00have Hillary Epstein donated $200 one legal Health person to another what did you your parents tell you that

Brian Atlasyou could say on the show I am sure of it wait is this directed at uh her excuse me did your parents tell you I'm sorry Hillary I'm a little confused by

Brian Atlasthe question what did your parents tell you that you could say on the show do you understand what you I don't really understand well I just can't like

Brian AtlasI just can't come out here and say because like anybody who goes to court like you're supposed to to kind of keep everything confidential so that's fair uh thank you Hillary appreciate it we have two chats here Maddie can you read

Madisonsounds more like you are upset he wants to be involved had to fight for 50/50 myself stop capping you left

Sarahhim no like I truly truly if he is in good standing I want him I I would never like want our kids to have to not have the opportunity

Sarahto be with both parents so long as they're both like doing well for them you know like I come from a single family home didn't know my dad like actually never met my dad and then

Sarahsomebody came into my life who also like abandoned me so I know what what it is to feel rejected by another parent and I would never want our children to even

Madisonfeel like the slightest separation from one parent cuz I know what it can do yeah go ahead Maddie I have myin gains from the crash and for podcast book

Madisoncalled why women deserve less this is is this an immediate red flag just move your mic no like like that can you not see or

Brian Atlasno your computer's block okay like half of it all right uh is that a red flag what if just show of hands is it a red flag the whole bookshelf thing you go to the guy's house you see the bookshelf

Brian Atlasthere's a book that says why uh women deserve less red flag show of hands show of hands is yes all right there it is show I guess that's red flag okay thank

Madisonyou man appreciate it we have Robert Tanner can you read this one this is a great panel my question to each of them what are the specific SL qualifications of a first date you are looking for or

Brian Atlasif married explain your idea of one also how important is the first date for you uh thank you Robert Tanner so the question is what are the specifics qualifications of a first date you are looking

Pearlfor so what do you expect on the first date um I mean me personally I well what do I expect I mean I what I like at a

Pearlfirst date on a first dat is if a man is asking me to go out like he's planned where we're going he takes care of the

Pearlbill like he thinks of it as you know an honor to have me in his presence and he's asking me to spend time with him so I think that and then while I'm there I don't know I like a man who's curious

Pearlwho's interested who's asking me questions who's sharing openly balanced masculine and feminine energy shared values being attracted to them things

Pearllike that you what did you say about honor honor your yeah like he's like oh like it's it's it's an honor to have this woman in my presence like I would like him to think like that not like

Pearlshe's so lucky to be with me I feel like that's odd energy well isn't that precisely what you're expecting um for him to think she uh I'm

Brian Atlasso lucky that she's that she agreed to say yes well I mean you said that it should be an honor the guy should view it as an honor that he's in your

Pearlpresence is it an honor when you're in their presence I think like for you like for you oh it's an honor to be in your presence guy uh well I mean the guy that I'm seeing now when I went out with him

Pearlfor the first time I was like wow like I'm like this is he's a great guy like I'm lucky to be able to spend time with him I think ideally both people think that but if the guy comes in thinking

Stacythat himself I feel like that's a little odd but how do you even get into that as a conversation piece like it's not a conversation it's just it's just energy it's just going out with someone is just enjoying each other's company I guess I

Stacydon't quite understand the whole they should be happy and lucky that I'm with them type thing I think that almost puts ourselves too much on a pedestal I wait hold on so but going back to what you

Brian Atlaswere saying you said this is what the guy should be feeling towards me but it would be odd if he had the sort same sort of

SPEAKER_00expectation expectation you didn't you say I heard the words odd yeah yo thank you g grid One Motorsports donated $200 And1 thank you man good to

SPEAKER_00see how many will have perfected the hawk tour technique how is your spit on it game BR how you asking surveys show that a good Hawk tour can solve many relationship issues I disagree I

Brian Atlasdisagree G never heard You' never heard a good oh that's good thing no such thing as a good enough BJ to deal with a quarrelsome and nagging wife or

Brian Atlasgirlfriend but true um also like just to it's not that any girl can spit it ain't that

Lizhard like that's what the HW Tua is it's literally just spinning you got to say it how she said it way he said it was just like H Tua

Brian AtlasH put together man any chick can do that like I I don't know anyways um thank you grid one though appreciate it what was his question it was uh what are the

Brian Atlasexpectations I don't think any of the girls are going to no we still need to go around on it yo Duren thank you for the gifted 10 um thank you grid one appreciate

Brian Atlasit are you liquored up grid one what's going on man that that was an uncharacteristic that's a new one from grid one

Brian Atlasuh so uh going back to this you uh you said that it should be an honor for the man to be in your presence but it would be

Pearlodd if he wanted you to feel honor to be in presence yeah I think that there's something about being a woman that me

Pearllike men desire like to have women around them that's why clubs let out let have want a lot of women because men like to be in spaces with a lot of women do women want to be in spaces with a ton

Pearlof men not really like that's just how it is women are a desirable presence for men well I'm not sure I even agree with

Brian Atlasthe premise here so I if uh we disagree on something hold on so I would argue though like if this was actually the case then all women nightclubs would be

Brian Atlasextremely popular they would exist but the reality is like the most popular the most prestigious the most uh desirable nightclubs bars women are

Pearlgoing to these environments where there are men I don't think that yeah of course men also it's not that women don't want to be around any men at all but I'm just saying in general like men

Pearlif men are like oh ton of girls are going to be there they're going to be like oo I want to be there but I don't think it's the same in the opposite direction of like oh my God there's going to be so many guys there like let's go you know what I mean like it's

Madisonit's different energetically I think it's kind of the same maybe men like vocalize it more but I think women are kind of thinking it in their heads that could be a generation

Stacywhen I was in I would have defitely G some there was going to be tons of guys I think there's there's like I mean women just

Brian Atlasrefuse to acknowledge that they're have any interest in men like or or any women refuse to acknowledge let me clarify

Brian Atlaswomen will hold on women will refuse to acknowledge that they do anything for the purpose of men for example when you wear makeup it's not for men it's for you blah blah blah if you wear certain

Brian Atlasclothing it's not for men it's for whatever reason if you go to a certain event it's not to meet if you go out to bars and clubs and all this it's not for the possibility of meeting men it's to go have fun with your girlfriends and

Brian Atlaswhile I don't disagree that that can be a component of it to totally disregard the social component of going to these environments in the hope that you will potentially meet a guy I think is cope

Pearlyeah I never said that right but you're like well the girls we just want to get together and we don't give a if the guys are there or not I think that the point of this podcast is to be is to be controversial which means that things

Pearlare going to be you're going to obviously frame them for profitability as either black or white when really it's it's a combination of both of course like women dress for themselves and for men that's why we have a

Pearlconversation about the male gaze and the female gays and as women we're like okay I think it's good to be reflective like am I dressing for men exclusively and

Pearlhow can I do that less and like just dress for myself and try to decenter men but of course we want and need each other and of course women are doing

Pearlthings to attract men and of course men are doing things to attract women but I feel like how we frame it and how we talk about it and what we emphasize really you know contributes to our

PearlBehavior so wait women should decenter men I think so yeah should men decenter women um I think that men are socialized to want to be powerful whereas women are socialized to be good it's very

Pearldifferent in how we're socialized women are always socialize oh how can I you know serve men how can I put everybody women are praised for putting every

Brian Atlassingle person I reject your premise I reject the premise for example men when they're growing up are taught this is how you treat women men are told this

Brian Atlaswomen are never told when growing up this is how you treat men I actually think women are far more self-interested and self-centered so to say that women are raised to uh what did you say

Brian Atlasthey're good to be good and men are raised not I don't know if you use the word raised are socialized women are socialized to be good men are socialized

Brian Atlasto powerful be powerful I actually think men are are socialized to be good and women are socialized to be self-interested well I guess we disagree

Brian Atlasbut definitely raised to be like ladylike but not for the purpose of satisfying a man just being ladylike but then I would also ask if

Brian Atlasthat's the case because I'll often and maybe you actually might have even brought this up on the last show although I forget if I say something like well men are negative negatively affected in this way a lot the rebuttal

Brian AtlasI'll often receive is well whose fault is that it's other men's fault but then I can actually just use this argument

Brian Atlastowards women so can we agree that um I don't know what the exact number is but there's a lot of single parent

Brian Atlashouseholds agreed and are these single parent households most more often than not single mother households okay and then when it comes to let's say

Brian Atlaskindergarten through sixth grade we can even do uh what's the proportion of uh female teachers to male teachers probably more women more women so all

Brian Atlasthe influence that these young men have growing up is female influence MH in the household where they spend most of their time and then they're

Brian Atlasgoing to spend what8 nine hours a day in school where the female where the influence is female not male typically there's very few fewer and fewer as the years go male

SPEAKER_00teachers show up to a party naked what other way could you easily attract men why even wear clothes that barely cover your private parts if that's how you're

Brian Atlasdressing for yourself where is the distinction wait show up to a party naked back to this okay what other way could you easily attract men while even wear clothes that barely cover your

Brian Atlasprivate parts that's how you're dressing where's the distinction show up to a party

Jordannaked thank you kils you apprciate I do think think walked around naked and didn't even know it yeah okay you we'll come back to this but really

Brian Atlasquick on the kill of serial one uh do you guys think totally would it be fair game for a guy to break up with his girlfriend if he didn't he did not want

Stacyher to go to a party and she did fair game or is he being too controlling he can definitely break up with her whether or not it's a right decision he's going to later find out so

Stacysure well okay he's in of course it's his right but like is he being too controlling yes well I think we also dis discussed that we really don't know a

Stacylot of the story here so we don't know if he knew ahead of time that well but I here here here's the story I'm dating a girl she wants to go to a uh a pool party where she's going to wear a bikini

Sarahand there's going to be alcohol and it's uh she's going with her single girlfriends and I don't want her to go I think that you you guys are just not fit for each other and and you should find

Stacysomebody who is or isn't willing based off of what you want in a partner I don't think that one situation should be enough for them to break up or him to break up with her I think that would be stupid if it's just that scenario that

Pearlyou just presented that's the scenario then I don't think he's not too controlling okay Pearl that scenario is indicative of a much bigger issue which is there's no

Brian Atlastrust you're I think it is indicative of a much bigger issue and that's and the bigger issue is is she's inclined to go to the party well it depends it depends on so much it could either be he's

Pearlcontrolling or it could be that he's picking up that she's not trustworthy we don't know enough information like you were saying so it could totally be extremely unfair and like relax I'm

Pearlwearing a bikini it's fine or he could be like um yeah you're wearing a bikini because you're trying to get other uh the the attention of other men which I've seen as a pattern in your life and

Brian Atlasthat's that's fair okay well I mean just by virtue of as a woman if you go to these sorts of environments whether it be a bar club

Brian Atlashouse party pool party whatever uh it doesn't even have to be a conscious thing where I'm like even if your intention is I don't have any intention of going to this thing to get male

Brian Atlasattention you know by virtue of going to it that you will get male attention and there therein lies the problem oh so if the man is if my boyfriend was going to

Pearlget mad at me because if I wear a bathing suit I'm going to get male attention he has an insecurity issue and yeah no I think that that's controlling and okay it's not just about the bikini

Brian Atlasfor example if you were to go to the beach with him uh men look men have different uh boundaries and when it comes to this specific thing but going to a party I'm assuming in the scenario

Brian Atlasit's without him present going to a party uh with your girlfriends or whatever basically it's a singles

Pearlevent okay so what is this I would I would I would ask him what's your issue like what is your issue with the fact that I'm wearing a bikini it's not so much

Brian Atlasthe bikini it's the going to the party wearing the bikini if you're wearing a bikini at home you probably wouldn't give a okay why is that why does that bother you that's what I because men and women flirt differently okay and

PearlI would say I'm not there to flirt with anyone I'm there to enjoy myself okay would say let me ask you a question so do you ever approach guys no guy you're currently dating did

Pearlhe approach you or did you approach him um I guess we just started talking to each other cuz we were near one another I guess you guys work together uh yeah I mean no we don't work together but uh we

Pearlmet at his place of work I was doing a gig there and he was like in charge of setting up the gig can I ask hold on hold on so who asked for

Brian Atlaswhose number he asked for mine who set up the date he did mhm um assuming I won't get into too much detail did he go for the first kiss yes okay uh so yeah

Brian Atlashe hit on you right it wasn't Mutual yeah yeah so there's a differential here in the the way that men and women flirt like women won't slide into a dude's DMS

Brian Atlasthey will sometimes yeah yeah for the most part but they'll post like a revealing photo in an effort to get uh in an effort to solicit men to then contact

SPEAKER_00them grid One Motorsports donated $200 And1 it is always interesting when women try to make the case for dressing like a if you dress for the job you want

SPEAKER_00and you dress like a then you are proclaiming yourself a do better a she was a ho B she was a HOA uh thank you g he spelled it like that guy said

Pearlit HOA uh so what were you saying thank you g uh you were saying that women post pictures for male attention yeah so like

Pearlyou'll go to a bar you won't like actively approach a guy but you'll go to the bar with the understanding that there's a good chance that men will approach you yeah I think that some

Pearlwomen for sure wear clothing to elicit male attention I don't think that that's something that doesn't happen but so here's the thing though in a relationship there's an expectation that

Brian Atlasas a guy well it would be cheating for me to go and approach a girl and try to flirt with her while I'm in a relationship

Brian Atlascorrect but we have nothing in place in society that frowns upon or shames women by the way women Run game we don't stop women from running the type of game that

Brian Atlasy'all run which is indirect does that make sense I understand what you're saying yeah cuz like you you guys will be um you'll put yourselves out there to give space for men to come and talk to

Brian Atlasyou but it's it's frowned upon for men to put down boundaries and be controlling and say you need to cut off your options the same way I'm not going out there and approaching girls and

Paytongiving them or asking for their number and doing all this simply you um I'm trying to think of like a good scenario here I had a pretty good example I think how like female Birds

Paytonthey will do mating calls and they will puff their feathers and everything and the male has to come to the female Bird that's kind of what us women do by going out and dressing you know certain ways

Paytongetting all dolled up and then the men will approach us because we're kind of putting off that energy like we're trying to get that attention that's a good example that's a really good example it's a good example but

Brian Atlaslike perfect but there's nothing like I mean at least look there are traditional relationships where there's an expectation where if you're in this relationship as a woman you're not going to put yourself out there but it's

Brian Atlascertainly much more common like it's almost clearcut hey the guy has to stop like approaching girls while in a relationship but the the means with

Brian Atlaswhich women will solicit male attention don't cease once they're in a relationship posting provocative photos on

Brian AtlasInstagram going to these in my view are very specific social settings which enable uh either casual sexual

Brian Atlasencounters or uh a means by which people can meet romantic Partners right and I mean you can say well the club the bar it's just just for fun but like you

Brian Atlasdon't go to Trader Joe's and you don't see people getting finger blasted randomly after 10 minutes of meeting somebody at Trader Joe's I see that all the time at least when I was in

Brian Atlascollege I said bro people be in the middle of the parties and it wasn't like college was crazy let me just tell you okay um can I add some I never seen

Jordansomebody get finger blasted at Whole Foods you walk into a a college party bled Not My Whole Foods My Whole Foods is

SPEAKER_00lit speak for yourself I'm just kidding so I have a question so grid One Motorsports donated $200 and 1 cent that is a horrible example in

SPEAKER_00nature the males are the ones that are brightly colored and show off the females are plain and drown get an education for sake somebody said I'm going to the

Pearlwrong Whole Foods okay the bird okay sorry go ahead go ahead so okay thank you gri one um so say

Pearlwhatever I wear a skin tight bodycon dress that's short and has a v cut mhm and the is that I'm sorry I'm a dude a v cut who the is that guy

Pearlit's literally a v a contour I don't know what that is cut out a tight dress that that shows off your curves okay go so if I want to wear that I'm in a relationship it and

PearlI'm just like oh it just makes me feel good and I wear it to Whole Foods is that okay because like you said it's not an environment where people are getting you know getting sexual attention it's just what if I just want to wear that

Brian Atlasdress is that fine then well I mean so I'm not familiar exactly with what that outfit would look like uh if you go to Trader Joe's and

Brian AtlasWhole Foods and you happen to be approached I don't think like I'm not suggesting like hey as a guy your girl can't go grocery shopping what I am saying is when it comes to parties bars

Pearlnightclubs whatever these are very very specific social settings so you would agree that wearing an outfit that is like maybe tight or whatever but I'm not doing it to get male attention because

PearlI'm not going to these specific places that are for like romantic and sexual and Casual connections I'm going to go get carneia sadaa and chips like is that

Brian Atlasokay is that okay I mean every man has different standards on this I do generally prefer women who dress a bit more modestly yeah so we're not talking talking about preferences we're just

Pearltalking about like the sort of generic understanding of like is it the actual dress or is it the intent behind the dress well I think we're getting away a

Brian Atlaslittle bit here cuz the the segment wasn't specifically exclusively just about the bikini it was wearing the bikini to this party right right so

Pearlyou're not going to answer my question you're saying is it okay to wear that dress to like a place like Whole Foods or Trader Joe's I don't know specifically what it what it looks like but a dress that would make you mad or

Pearlsomeone mad that they're wearing it to a club because it seems like they're doing it to elicit male attention I would say a lot of men prefer their girlfriends to dress modestly okay so it's not okay to wear a Whole Foods what do you mean that's

Brian Atlasexactly what I mean is it would it be okay if I'm wearing it in environment that's not to attract men again I don't know what the specific outfit that you're referring to looks like so imagine out that you'd be upset

Brian Atlasabout or that someone might be you would say that's let's let's use like a more obvious example she's wearing like short short jeans that with her ass sticking out and like a crop top I to some degree

Pearlwould find this a little objectionable at least from a girlfriend okay yeah but that would be appropriate if you're like trying to get male attention or something well I I prefer modest dress

Jordanin general okay okay that's what she does what she wanted to say but but if I if I was no don't if if I was dating a

Brian Atlasgirl I would hope in general that she did dress a bit more modestly I'm not saying it's got to be a a turtleneck and sweatpants all the time and men have varying degrees of what they think would

Brian Atlasbe appropriate or not yeah but uh yeah like ass out short shorts I would probably feel a little like I'd feel a type of way about it yeah so we we need to change when you get into a

Stacyrelationship and you're committed to someone or eventually get married you're what you do should change okay you can't just continue to to do everything the same so it comes down to if your boyfriend ORV and your husband at that

SPEAKER_00time didn't want you to go to a party in a bikini really is it that important killer of cereal donated $200 thank you women who say it's just skin are too

SPEAKER_00open to hurting the one they are with by being too open with their bodies sex is sacred to be shared by two people behind closed doors stick around for part two

Brian Atlasoh he's going to I suppose send another one okay thank you Kil serial appreciate it man uh I'm just kind of waiting to see if it's going to come through and look I think a lot of

Brian Atlasguys a lot of guys when it comes to look there's the whole dressing thing that's one component I'm actually I would say a little more flexible specifically when it comes

Brian Atlasto your dress and I do think there's a geographic component to it like if if you live in a really warm climate like I think it's going to be a bit more socially acceptable to dress show a bit

Brian Atlasmore skin for like temperature reasons like that's fair right summertime you know you don't expect a girl to be

Pearlwearing a turtleneck in Midsummer in Florida or something um but

SPEAKER_00uh so have a question after this grid One Motorsports donated $200 And1 be these girls are used to dating Lumas not

SPEAKER_00real men with values morals and standards they would rather dress like a them to be honorable and worthy of being in a man's life a she was a ho B

Brian Atlasshe was a ho dating loser cumers is he referencing us show of

SPEAKER_00hands who's dating a loser cumer what is that show of hands killer of Cal donated $200 if you show up to a party with your

SPEAKER_00man and dress scantily clad what message do you think you're sending to him advertising yourself to all others why would he want to be with you yeah that's

Jordandisrespectful and embarrassing for your man for you to be out here acting single when you have a man at home and also it depends like who's going to be there at the party is it a bunch of single people cuz if you

Jordansurround yourself with a bunch of single people not that it's bad to have single friends but you start to act single like you are who you hang out with like as soon as I got married I wanted to have

Jordanfriends and women that were married not only married but Christian married women who have values like you have to surround yourself with people who have those same values like I'm not going to

Jordango out to a club and be giving all of this attention to all of these men when my man's at home like that's disrespectful and if it if it was like hey I don't want you to go to this party regardless of who's there MH end of

Jordanstory man I'm not going it doesn't matter what the reason is I'm not going I W pick your B I'm not going to question

Pearl[Music] him uh you had something Pearl go ahead I was just going to say like with the bikini thing for me like I really struggle with body image for a really

Pearllong time and I would wear big t-shirts over my bathing suit I like had a really not good relationship with food it was a huge struggle in my life that took a

Pearllong long time so for me when I wear a bikini to the beach or like to the whatever whatever I might be when I'm in water or not like I'm really truly not

Pearlthinking how can I get men's attention it's it's for me like it feels good I'm like wow I'm confident enough and comfortable enough in my skin to wear this bikini you know I would but I will

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