HEATED DEBATE! She Got Her Ex DEPORTED?! Excommunicated Mormon/LDS?! Woke E-GIRL?! | Dating Talk 289

Date: 2026-04-06

Duration: 11h 01m

Guests

Brian Atlas

BBarbara Adamson >

AAngelica (DC)>

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00Joy(guest)

SPEAKER_01Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_02Emily Mack(guest)

SPEAKER_03Frankie(guest)

SPEAKER_04Angelica (DC)(guest)

SPEAKER_05Ally(guest)

SPEAKER_06Abby(guest)

SPEAKER_09Riley Nimi(guest)

SPEAKER_10Griselda(guest)

SPEAKER_11Barbara Adamson(guest)

SPEAKER_12Anna(guest)

SPEAKER_13Lii(guest)

SPEAKER_14Hannah(guest)

Key Moments

IntroAll 13 guests introduce themselves - largest panel ever

Key MomentGriselda reveals she crossed the Rio Grande illegally as a minor

ControversyRiley proposes shooting anyone who crosses the border

Key MomentAngelica reveals she lied about being engaged - actually married

Key MomentAlly reveals boyfriend strangled her on shrooms, she stayed with him

Key MomentHannah excommunicated from LDS church in high school

Key MomentAnna unknowingly dated a Craigslist killer

OtherLongest Whatever stream ever - approaching 11 hours

Topics Discussed

Guest Introductions

13 guests including Riley Nimi (conservative), Griselda (Mexican immigrant), Hannah, Anna (Marine vet), and many more. Longest Whatever stream ever (~11 hours).

Griselda Immigration Story

Crossed the Rio Grande illegally as a minor brought by father. Now has green card through marriage.

Riley Proposes Shooting Border Crossers

Controversial immigration solution sparks strong panel reaction.

Angelica Reveals She Is Actually Married

Lied about being engaged; actually married ~2 years with more money than husband.

Ally Boyfriend Strangled Her on Shrooms

Boyfriend had drug-induced psychosis, strangled her one month into relationship. She stayed.

Hannah LDS Excommunication

Excommunicated from Mormon church in high school for intimacy with boyfriend.

Anna Craigslist Killer Date

Unknowingly dated a Craigslist killer in San Diego.

Rapid Fire Trivia

Panel struggles with basic geography and history. Someone says Hitler ruled Poland.

Show Wrap - Longest Stream Ever

Show wraps after approaching 11 hours.

Transcript

Page 4 of 12

Brian Atlas>> five is average. So if you're five that's average looking. Um >> uh Okay. So you gave yourself a six. You said I think I'd put you closer to a

Brian Atlasfour. Uh you gave yourself a was it 7.5? >> No six and a half. Oh, six. 6. >> I changed it. Yeah. >> 6.5. I'd put you closer to 4.55.

Brian AtlasUh, Angelica, you gave yourself a five. Uh, I actually think Angelica, you may have slightly uh underrated yourself. I think I'd put you uh face-wise, these are all face

Brian Atlasratings, by the way. I'm not like rating body or total. Uh, I think Angelica, I'd put you closer to 5.5. Riley, what did you give yourself? Uh, >> 888. >> 888. Uh, I don't rate dudes.

Brian AtlasI'm a pass on. I mean, I could rate a dude. You want me to rate you, Riley? >> What if we rate? >> Can we rate him? >> We can rate him. >> Yeah, >> we can do a little >> Yeah, I like that. Do a little game here. >> Sure, why not? >> Like a five. >> You got to switch the camera angles. Um,

Griseldago ahead. >> Like a five. >> Okay. >> Not my tie, but probably like a four. >> A five?

Emily MackUm, yeah, five sounds about right. Six. >> I would say six, but I think you're going to get more handsome with age. I think you're kind of in a geeky phase right now because you're very young. Like I'm 30 and I kind of look at you like a little kid.

Emily Mack>> Get some facial hair. >> Yeah. Like I think by the time you're my age, you're going to be a knockout. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I agree. >> After you saying that, and I was going to say 4.55. Yeah. So, five.

Anna>> I hate this game, but I think you're super handsome. I would give you eight. I think you have pretty eyes, so I'll give you an eight. >> Awesome. >> Yeah, I would say like a Wait, we can't do sevens with the giving the rating or what? What's the rule? >> Sure. If you want to do it.

Anna>> I would say like a seven or eight. And I agree. I think with time, like when you age and stuff, you're going to be >> Angelica. >> I would agree with the ladies.

Angelica (DC)>> You're going to be more men get sexier with age. >> A number. >> Oh, probably like right now. Um >> I'm not going to lie, like a four. You look a little bit like a boy. >> Yeah. So, what does that actually say?

Brian Atlas>> Well, yeah, but you have to hold on. So, obviously Riley's 21, but you'd have to factor in like, yeah, some of you are older, so you're going to your natural inclination is to be attracted to men

Brian Atlasaround your age or old older men, but you have to rate the aesthetics on their own, like on their own, not just your own necessarily personal preferences. Uh, in this case, Riley has pretty

Brian Atlasstrong facial aesthetics. Maybe his only weak, well, one of his weaknesses is skin clarity, but he already talked about that. Uh, but I mean, absent the skin clarity, the there's a baseline of strong facial aesthetics, uh, strong

Brian Atlasstrong brows, strong eyes, strong strong hair, strong facial symmetry. Uh, perhaps the lower third is on the weaker side, but otherwise, I think we give Riley, we got to give Riley here. You

Brian Atlasgot, first of all, some of you who rated him low, he mogs the the [ __ ] out of >> Yeah, I rated him higher than me. Like honestly, Riley was nice kind of [ __ ] moss. I think >> everybody here. >> I was going to say that. That's a little gay.

Angelica (DC)>> How How would that be gay? >> I'm just joking. >> So much better looking than all you women. Like so beautiful. Oh my god, look at his strong future. I actually agree. >> If I were to see

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. I think men get assessments of other men and it's not a homosexual thing. It's just like, oh, okay. This guy fits into Yeah. Yeah. This guy fits into like the determination,

Brian Atlas>> the looks maxing PSL. >> Well, it's not even looks maxing. It's just like, okay, how can I as a man come to a determination that Brad Pitt when he was young is better looking than like Jonah Hill? Like, that doesn't make me homosexual. >> I'm not saying you're actually

Brian Atlashomosexual. I know, but I'm just joking. >> What are you [ __ ] doing? What? Why are you, >> bro? You got [ __ ] butter fingers over there. That's like the second time you

Riley Nimi[ __ ] slipped. At least that I w saw it. God damn. Okay. Um, so, um, >> I'm the only guy. Can I go around them? >> You want to rate them? >> Yeah, >> sure. Yeah, we could. >> Yeah. I feel like some of you guys have

Riley Nimiconfidence issues, so I mean, you might be surprised, but I would say I'm just going to go quick to not make up to take up too much time, but I would say >> 86.

Riley NimiNo, no. 8 4 5 3 >> 5 5 7 3 9 5 8 >> Oh, you're too generous, right? You're

Riley Nimitoo generous, >> bro. Okay, like you said five is the average, though. And like here's the thing. We're not talking about the average girl that you see in Santa Monica Beach, right? We're talking about the average girl in at least America, right? Like >> I'm just saying like

Brian Atlas>> Well, yeah, it depends. It it does depend a bit about what you mean on average, for example. But >> I feel like the best way to do it is like if you're a nine, then you're in the top 10 percentile. >> That'd be like the best. No,

Brian Atlas>> not quite. No, it's like exponentially what is a the distribution would be different. So it wouldn't break more strict. >> Yeah. The distribution wouldn't be different. So you for example, you wouldn't see 10% of women would be

Brian Atlasnines, 10%. It wouldn't quite work like that. you'd see um like for example it wouldn't be like 10% 9 skipping down a

Brian Atlasbit like 10% 6 10% 5 10% 4 10% ones like somebody to be a one you almost like you almost never see a 10 and then you almost or like a nine cuz there are no

Brian Atlasthere are no tens and you it's very rare to see somebody like it's very rare to see somebody who's like shockingly ugly >> that's like basically your def like really

Brian Atlas>> no offense [ __ ] up like someone has hygiene. Yeah. >> You're going to see like 50% of people fall into [ __ ] Okay. Okay. So, a belurve a bell curve. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

AnnaAnd I do notice on those my 600 lb lives for some reason those women always have men available and ready to wipe their you know what. Anyways, >> uh I mean beauty so beauty in the

Brian Atlasstrictest philosophical sense it is subjective. But the in terms of assessments of beauty, there are objective measurements that contribute to the subjective assessment of beauty.

Brian AtlasSo certain just certain characteristics like objective measurements and then it and it is also the case that for example I think it it is objective objectively

Brian Atlasthe case that say a majority of people would find agreement on which people are the most attractive. There would be objectivity there. I have a a theory on

Barbara Adamsonwhy women sometimes struggle to answer this question uh accurately. Um I think women specifically we have a tendency to

Barbara Adamsongauge attraction on like personality and other attributes. do they though? >> Um I think in person I think dating apps do

Barbara Adamsonmen a disservice um in that regard because dating apps in particular I think um men tend to be more initially attracted visually and I think dating

Barbara Adamsonapps kind of force women into that paradigm when like women are often attracted to status and and stuff like that that aren't purely physical characteristics. I mean, obviously physical attraction is still important,

Barbara Adamsonbut I think like when I think about how, you know, me and other women I know gauge attraction and if they like a guy, it's it's often a amalgamation of characteristics that are not just purely

Barbara Adamsonphysical. And I think women when they're asked this question, they have a hard time isolating just the physical attractiveness because we tend to view qualities in a network versus being able

Brian Atlasto isolate like a train of thought in a particular category. >> That's a good Yeah, I I I like that. I tend to agree with that. We have a TTS here from the unknown soldier. >> The unknown soldier related to I know where it was from.

SPEAKER_07>> First overall, you don't get the call back. It's from the poetry. I know. Also, you get 200 characters per TTS. Numbers start getting really long. Now,

Brian Atlasdo the math. I know it tickles your autism. >> Uh oh, boy. Yeah, actually, speaking of, I need to do another champagne pop. >> I was going to say another shot. >> I do. >> We do have to get the uh champagne pop

SPEAKER_07from the uh the previous >> Who paid for that again? >> What's that? >> Who paid for the campaign? I mean, not the campaign. The >> the Oh, man. All right. Riley hasn't even been drinking and he already swearing his words.

Joy>> My sprinkler goes like this. >> Oh. Oh. Well, thank you, Glattavius. >> I Oh, >> that's beautiful. >> I love that. >> It's like a black person's laugh. >> Wait, what is this?

Brian Atlas>> It's a black person's laugh. >> Wait, what? What do you mean that's a black person? >> Riley, I've noticed I've noticed, >> do you have uh >> Do you want to sit here? By the way,

Brian AtlasRiley, I've noticed a couple comments you've made about uh about black people and uh what's what's going on there, Riley. >> I mean, I'm just dating facts at this point. >> There there's a bit of a a hyperfixation, I would say.

Brian Atlas>> It does seem a little There's a little debating set. There's also a problem in the United States. Okay. >> I do not I Hold on. I don't agree. Wait. The >> Do you want to clarify what you like?

Riley NimiThere's a problem. No, there's >> You're not going to say the >> You're not saying black people. >> They They make a lot of problems. >> Fully disavow. Wait, well, hold on. >> What? With high crime rates, high rape rates. >> Wait, but are you saying black people are a problem?

Riley Nimi>> No, >> cuz I disavow that entirely. Completely disavowed. >> But they they create a lot of problems more than the average American does. >> So, it's no longer the >> But there's still Americans.

Brian AtlasSo, so I mean if it look if you're looking at crime statistics there may be over representation but I think you could adjust your messaging so as it to not land in such an abrasive because I think

Brian Atlas>> but I never said the words black people are a problem. I just said there's a big problem in the United States. It's >> I think you point everything back to blackirect have to do with the black >> optics so that they'll understand. I

Brian Atlasunderstand I understand so terrible. >> I understand the intention though. He was obviously dumped by >> like I think it's okay to be like okay there's like disproportionate

Brian Atlas>> I think he's got a type >> crime statistics not black people no she's half white half Asian she's the negative >> you should read some Thomas Soul if you

Brian Atlashave >> I love Thomas Soul's awesome >> um no >> that makes a lot of sense >> yeah my city's 1% black >> like just because he's honest >> I mean there has there been like do you

Brian Atlashave uh racial animus >> towards black people. >> Animosity. >> Define that word. >> Animous like a sort of negative sentiment towards or like racial hatred or anything. Okay. I just wanted to

Riley Nimiclarify that. Um >> No, I just like talking about statistics and stuff. But I was just bringing up the laugh thing cuz that's that's been a meme for like a long time. >> That's how black people >> really How would you know? You don't have black friends. I

Riley Nimi>> I I've heard black people laugh. Sounds like a Windex bottle. >> Where did you hear them? All over the internet. Riley, you heard them all over the internet laughing. We got to do Riley. What? We need to put him up. Black people laughing.

Brian Atlas>> And that's what you heard? >> The next time Riley brings up black people, we're going to put him where Hannah is. We made that rule. You just sit him next to me. >> Quarter in the jar. >> You got to put a quarter in jar. You know what? Actually, speaking of the jar, I think you should at least pay

Brian Atlassome reparations to the two women here just for some of your comments tonight, to be honest. >> Yeah, just come. >> I don't have cash on me. I don't have gas. be a fun drink. >> I take Apple, you know, after the cash sale.

Riley Nimi>> I mean, how much were you thinking? >> Like $250. >> $250. >> Yeah. >> Here. What's three fifths of that? Can we do a Can we get a calculator? >> Oh my god. >> Can we get a screenshot of this transaction? >> You're crazy, Ry. You're crazy. >> Crazy.

Brian Atlas>> All right. So, uh, here. Next topic. Next topic. The looks rating. Do we Is there anything left we have to do for the looks rating? I don't think so. >> Wait, what? Can I ask why you asked that question? >> Uh, >> genuinely. >> What question? Well, how about before I

Brian Atlasanswer your question, you tell because you my impression is you have an objection to the the question, the an objection to rating people's looks. Why don't you explain that first?

Hannah>> I really I I totally understand what you were saying and I think that is why it's a hard question. I really think personality is absolutely crucial to somebody's rating. You could see the most gorgeous human if she is stuck up,

Hannahsnobby, like degrading. I just think it takes away from her or vice versa. Like you can see a guy that is not very attractive, he could be so kind, hilarious, a good provider, he instantly is higher up in my book. >> Uh,

Brian Atlas>> yep. So that's that's why I feel like it's like it's kind of like they are coexisting. >> So yeah, but what what you're doing there is this sort of tricky thing where you're adding qualifiers that may not necessarily exist. So you would agree

Brian Atlaswith me that an attract like are all attractive people pieces of [ __ ] >> No, I'm not saying that. >> Right. So there are some good-looking people who also possess positive characteristics. >> I agree.

Brian Atlas>> Now are those uh physically attractive people who also possess those uh good characteristics are they going to out compete their less attractive counterparts who also possess an commensurate level of positive characteristics?

Brian Atlas>> Are they going to out compete them? >> Are they going to have better options? Are they they going to have typically better life outcomes? Are they going to be treated better >> if they're sorry if they're >> Okay, so pretty I'm essentially trying to get to pretty privilege. Uh we see

Brian Atlasthis not just when it comes to dating and relationships, but being attractive also confers benefits in life as a whole. Um >> yeah, I agree. But you don't have to in work, you're going to be assessed

Brian Atlasbetter. Uh even in like criminal criminal cases, if you're good-looking, uh you're more empa I guess empathetic to the jury. Uh, and they've done studies on this, like better looking

Brian Atlaspeople tend to get less harsh prison sentences. Uh, and >> women who wear makeup get paid 30% more, FYI. >> Well, I think we should ban makeup to be honest. >> We should just >> we should criminalize it.

Emily Mack>> Why? >> Uh, it's a crime against humanity. >> Do you use what if you're fixed up in a dress and like you don't have like a little makeup and nails done? It doesn't look right.

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. So, while beards can alter your appearance, uh beards are not not um they're not artificial. Makeup is uh completely artificial. >> It is artificial. >> Well, hold on. Now we're getting into

Brian Atlasstyling. That's different than >> the same thing as makeup. But it's the same. Yeah. >> A beard is not the same because >> if you do a comb over and you're balding, >> if you do a mustache. >> Yeah. Beards are not beards are not the

Angelica (DC)same um as makeup. I would argue that with beards, they're a reflection of a man's testosterone. So, if he can grow a beard, then that's reflective of good genes. With makeup, it hides genes. And I think that although sometimes makeup

Angelica (DC)can be done, if you do it under 15 minutes, as Britney Venty says, it looks good. But if you take much longer to distort your face, that's very deceptive and manipulative towards anyone who's dating you. And I personally, if I was a man, I would feel a little bit

Angelica (DC)bamboozled. Like, I would feel like I can't trust this person. >> True. >> Brian, would you date someone? >> Just because someone uses makeup, what happened? Just because someone used makeup, you would not trust him. >> Not just because they use makeup. If

Angelica (DC)you've seen it, the Asians are actually the perfect ones at this. They changed their face to a point where there's lawsuits going on over there who like Koreans and Japanese women. There's like entire genres. >> I do want to be for the for the sake of

Brian Atlasfactuality m I'm familiar with what you're talking about. I do believe there was a hoax related to this. Now, I do agree that some of these makeups uh some of these makeup applications are so uh

Brian Atlasthe change is so significant, but there was a story where like a woman had I maybe it was plastic surgery, she had makeup and then she was actually super ugly and then she had kids and the husband like sued the wife or whatever.

Angelica (DC)I don't know if you're alluding to that. >> No, there's a legal sector within those those countries in Thailand too. >> So then you're against cosplay as well? >> No, cuz cosplay isn't like displaying. >> Yeah. By the way, beards are also genetic. So, I mean, so

Angelica (DC)>> would you I was just going to ask if a girl in the context of dating like she wears makeup, she makes it clear she's wearing makeup, so you don't think, "Oh, this is actually how she looks. She shows you what she looks like without wearing makeup, so you already know like her pure natural face." Is she still

Angelica (DC)being deceptive and manipulative to you? >> Sorry, could you repeat the question? I was reading something here. My bad. That was my bad. >> If a girl in the context of dating, she wears makeup, she lets it be known to you that she is wearing makeup, so you don't think, oh, like this is actually how she looks. She shows you what she

Brian Atlaslooks like without makeup, so you have that information clear as well. Is she still being deceptive and manipulative? >> Yes, actually to a degree. Now, first off, most women are not like on uh well, we could apply this to dating apps, for example. Often times on dating apps, and

Brian Atlasthey employ filters, too, which is another level of deception. Uh a lot of times on dating apps, women will not, for example, include a photo of them without makeup. Even in that context where they have the ability to do it and

Brian Atlasperhaps where they should, they won't include a photo of them completely barefaced. Uh your scenario is completely hypothetical. I've never had a woman like show up on a date with a

Brian Atlasface of makeup and be and like >> volunteer, hey Brian, here's a photo of me without makeup just so you know what you're getting into. Women don't really do that. So from a practical

Brian Atlasperspective, no. But I think the difference is and also you would agree with me that even if a woman doesn't disclose that she's wearing makeup uh or doesn't show me a photo of her without makeup that I could just on my own like

Brian AtlasI'm looking at you I you're wearing makeup. I can tell that you're wearing makeup, >> right? I think the issue here is that even though I'm aware that you're m that you're wearing makeup, uh the the

Brian Atlasincrease in assessment, uh the increase in the assessment of your attractiveness is not diminished by

Brian Atlassimple virtue of my awareness or consciousness or knowledge that you are wearing makeup. It's uh your perceived attractiveness is still the same. So, even with disclosure,

Brian Atlas>> do you think by that applies to you or to everyone? I'm just curious. >> Uh, I think it would uh >> because a lot of guys like actually don't really care if a girl's wearing makeup. >> Most guys, what do you mean guys don't care that women are wearing makeup?

Angelica (DC)>> I would just say there's like a lot of guys like I've come across that find me attractive like despite >> that. So, yes, it can be. >> For example, like my like my roommate, she wears makeup, right? Um like her guy has like told her like, "Oh, you're

Brian Atlasbeautiful either way. you don't need it, but like, oh, your makeup looks really good. Like, he likes that. >> Uh, so yeah, I mean, a man can still be attracted to a woman >> with makeup and then without makeup >> or or just like he doesn't care about

Brian Atlasthe fact she wears makeup. It's like, okay, you like a lot of guys do. >> There's not a I'm not denying that a man can remain attracted to a woman uh even without her makeup. He could still even

Brian Atlasif he had never seen her with makeup, he would have still found her attractive. I guess that's not really what I'm getting at, but that you would agree well maybe you wouldn't that there is a component

Brian Atlasof well one I guess why would you wear it if it didn't have a palpable in uh increase in your perceived attractiveness? Why would women if it didn't actually make women look better?

Brian AtlasWhy the [ __ ] would they wear it? >> It does make them look better. I >> Okay, so they're that's not how they actually look though. You'd agree with that? They don't look like that naturally.

Angelica (DC)>> Correct. If a woman looks like >> it's deceptive to a degree. >> Is it? >> I think I think to say deceptive means like you're like you're lying and you're not being honest and you're hiding something. I could sit here and say I look different without makeup. This is how I look with makeup. This is how I look without makeup.

Anna>> If you're covering something up if you're covering something up, you kind of are hiding it though. So >> what if you lying for wearing clothes cuz you're covering up your body? Like what's going on? Like >> no. >> You're a trans person. You are. >> Can I ask Brian a question? Brian, are

Annayou attracted to a woman who has hairy legs and hairy armpits? Because earlier you said that >> this is a false equivalent. >> It's not because you said hair is natural and your beard is natural and so it doesn't change anything. Well, armpit hair is natural to women and so is hairy

Brian Atlaslegs. >> Yeah, grooming grooming art. So, grooming is different and >> grooming is a beard. >> Yeah, grooming is different than uh an artificial application of uh paint essentially. So, it's a false equiv uh

Brian Atlasit's a false equivalence, but I mean I'll answer your question. Yeah, I do prefer women who are shaved, who don't have hairy armpits, who don't have hairy legs, and just generally I think I I mean, I would state that men generally prefer women who have less hair than

Annamore hair. >> Like, if we're talking about body hair, so you do like some altercations or alterations, some argument changes. >> Uh yeah, my but that's it's not it's a

Brian Atlasfalse equivalence. So, my argument is not about making alterations. Obviously, people make alterations. My argument specifically relates to uh the the implementation of makeup. Uh hold on.

Brian AtlasRobert Tanner, thank for the gifted 50 memberships, man. Appreciate it. Uh thank you, man. W's in the ch for Robert Tanner. We're going to still pop the champagne bottle. I I haven't forgotten. Um yeah, so um sorry, could you repeat your

Brian Atlasquestion? >> Just do you find women with natural armpit hair and hairy legs attract? I prefer women with uh who shave their legs and who groom and who um don't have armpit hair.

Brian Atlas>> Okay. >> I don't think these two >> well hold on but these two things I don't think these two positions are contradictory. So you can have an objection or maybe not an objection but you could have a preference towards uh

Angelica (DC)body hair grooming but also find an objection to uh makeup usage or excessive makeup usage. I would also argue that when it comes to the makeup industry, it's predominantly like women and gay men. Like straight men are not

Angelica (DC)interested in the makeup industry whatsoever. So, it's like natural that they're not going to appreciate that in a dating context. They would rather have the more honest, raw looking you because that's what they're interested in knowing unless they have ulterior

Annamotives for you. Then they don't care. >> Most men I find actually prefer no makeup. >> Yeah. >> And I prefer to wear makeup. Also, I wanted to ask every day >> if a five out of 10 wears makeup, is she

Riley Nimistill truly a five out of 10? >> Yes, >> I can. I think makeup can also make you look not good. >> But I wanted to ask her if a five out of 10 woman wears makeup, is she still truly a five out of 10? >> Um, like Okay. So, is she a five out of

Angelica (DC)10 without makeup? >> No, but like if she wears makeup, she's still truly a five out of 10, right? >> I'd just give her the same rating, honestly. >> Like a five out of 10? >> Yeah. >> But a chick with a dick is not a guy. >> What are we talking about right now? Like what's the subject?

Angelica (DC)>> So you're saying a five out of 10 who wears makeup? >> Yeah, they're still a five out of 10. But then a chick with the dick, they're a >> Well, if she wears makeup, actually, I would I'll I'll take what I said back. If she wears makeup, then maybe it makes her look more attractive.

Riley Nimi>> But is she still truly a five out of 10? >> Like deep down inside. >> I would just average the two ratings. >> You would average two ratings. But I mean, like truly though, >> what do you mean deep down inside? We're talking about looks. Like >> Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Beneath the makeup, she's still a five out of 10,

Angelica (DC)right? >> If we're talking naturally, she's a five out of 10. with the makeup. She's like, again, when it comes to aesthetics, I think like the like the way I would rate aesthetics has to also do with like how you choose to present yourself and like how you choose to dress, like how you choose to style yourself, carry

Griseldayourself, all that. And that's not personality. >> I think you got to be crazy good at makeup to truly alter your appearance. There's a lot of people >> except for except for like skin clarity,

Griseldalike with just the general foundation that that's like the only thing you can really change without being crazy good at makeup. I mean, even contouring, you can tell their face shape if you just

Brian Atlaslook at them. It It's only like by the glance of the eye, like a quick second, that it alters your appearance truly. >> So, even if you're aware that a woman's wearing makeup, it it's still like the

Brian Atlasimpact it has is to some degree on like your first knee-jerk impression reaction. Uh it is still going to have like this sort of subconscious

Brian Atlasuh impact on your level of attraction to them. So like even if you're aware like it's still >> so >> like I'm trying to think >> you mean whether it's positive or negative. But

Frankie>> so if a guy's wearing a really good tction is that manipulative >> what >> if a guy's wearing a really good toupe. >> Huh? >> That's manipulative. >> That's manipulative. >> Yeah. >> Uh so I mean >> and he once had hair and then he fully

Brian Atlasbaldled it and he got a really really good look. I would say so I mean he's >> I think a lot of women would prefer a man who had a natural full head of hair

Brian Atlasthan a man who wore a toupe. >> But if women wear makeup and they truly do not care if another woman's wearing makeup. Why would they care if a guy wore a toupe? >> Well, that's the funny thing. People have double standards. Uh, I can almost

Brian Atlasguarantee you that women who regularly employ makeup usage would pro many of them would probably have some uh I don't know if it would be an outright objection, but they would they they

Angelica (DC)would be more attracted to the guy who has a full natural head of hair than the guy who has a toupe. >> So then you're also implying that makeup isn't a part of social grooming. >> I would actually argue on this point if a man has a toupe and it's discovered he has a toupe, you would fundamentally as

Angelica (DC)a woman start to question his entire integrity. Same thing if you were to do other modifications. I've seen it. >> Not if it's good. Like, let's say, for example, he fooled you. He has hair, but you turn >> my example. We fully know. Just like we fully know that you're wearing makeup.

Frankie>> When it comes Wait, lay out your position again. Sorry. >> We know that. We're aware that you're wearing makeup. You You've told us we're wearing makeup. We've seen you without wearing makeup. We've seen you without the toothpaste. So, we are fully aware. We're both grown adults. We know everything that's going on. >> I mean, that would be a compromising of

Angelica (DC)standards at that point where it's just kind of like, yeah, I'm cool with this, but a lot of people on average would not be cool with dating a guy wearing a toupe. >> It's just me and you. >> I mean, correct. Yes. But we're talking about like generalizations. We're talking about the average. I personally would not be okay with a guy with a

Angelica (DC)toupe. I'd rather he be bald cuz it's >> I agree. Go bald. >> Yeah. The wig is a little creepy. >> Everyone looks better. >> There's some bald daddies out there. >> What's that one? The Norland. It's like that balding pattern. >> Yeah. No, I do have

Brian Atlas>> If you're balding, just get rid of all the hair. You look >> Just let it go, bro. Whatever makes you happy, though. >> What about this? So, let's say that >> Let's say that makeup exists on a spectrum, on a scale. Of course, you'll

Brian Atlashave women who have like they put a bit of eyeliner on and that's it. Pretty minimal. A bit of mascara on, that's it. Then, like, you can go a little further all the way to like they're [ __ ] putting clay on their face and they're

Brian Atlasfull glam. That's a bit further down on the scale. Uh, but what about this? I could see in the future that with some like advanced technology like nano robots or something, this could be this

Brian Atlascould be employed for both men and women. Um, what if there's some like futuristic micro nano robots and like millions or hundreds of thousands of robots that

Brian Atlascould maneuver on your face and that you could like customize it in an app >> and it would cover your face and it would you could essentially have them fit over your face and it could slightly

Brian Atlaschange your appearance. Maybe you have a bit of a weak jaw. Improves it there. Or it could even basically completely change your face or keep some elements of your face, but like improve the

Brian Atlasflaws, maybe your nose, maybe your your, you know, whatever it is to make you more attractive. Um, you know, like the Las Vegas sphere, I guess, kind of like

Brian Atlasthat. Um, let's say it could change a man's face to go from a five to a nine. >> Would Would any of you have an issue with that? Do you think it would be deceptive? I think the scale of change

Brian Atlasis way above makeup in your >> but I I think that so but you >> it's not very >> are you willing to grant that makeup exists on a scale of deception >> a scale of change again I still wouldn't use the word deception

Brian Atlas>> but so okay what would but if it's the case so what you're putting on your face it's it's atoms it's particles uh you're putting them on your face uh to to change sometimes the shape the

Brian Atlascontouring uh change certain features what would be different between actual just like putting paint on your face and nano robot. Hold on. Nano robots that could assemble on your face and give you

Brian Atlaslike stronger jawline and maybe you're not like a completely different person, but it it substantially increases your attractiveness. How could you actually object to it? >> Right. So, you said this changes someone

Angelica (DC)from like a five to a nine. Like it changes your the whole shape of your jaw. Again, like someone said earlier, if you still look at someone's jaw with contour on, you can see the face of their shape. And I don't believe makeup is bringing anyone from a five to that.

Brian AtlasI think makeup can bring a five to a seven, five to an eight. Maybe a nine is a bit of a stretch, but makeup can definitely have >> makeup can have this impact.

Brian Atlas>> Your draw to the woman would either not be nearly as strong if you saw her barefaced or you might not even be attracted to her period. >> To introduce a feminist argument, it's like, why exactly would you be supporting an industry that sells

Angelica (DC)insecurities to women to profit off of those insecurities and sell them cosmetics? Why are you contouring your face? You don't have the right bone structure. Why are you like shaping your eyes? Because it's fun. It's just that it's fun to like do your makeup that we

Angelica (DC)then have to cover it up. >> Sometimes it's just like I just feel like better. Like I feel like you don't wear Why do you feel enhanced? >> It's fun. >> Why? If it's fun, it's always fun. Why exactly are you changing your

Angelica (DC)appearance? I mean, that's fun. That's fun. That's creative. But when it comes to making it look natural, and that's fun, too. But when it comes to like actually making it look natural, there's insecurities there that we're trying to hide. Hence why people get fake eyelashes. They think that their

Angelica (DC)eyelashes aren't long enough. Why are you spending so much money? Because women spend like hundreds of dollars a month on average on makeup. Why are you spending so much money to cover up insecurities? Why can't you embrace your natural face? Brian is more of a feminist and a woman lover than a lot of

Angelica (DC)the women's on this panel. >> I don't Are you a feminist? >> I'm on I'm a feminist on the labia issue. I guess um >> a girl can like completely love her

Angelica (DC)natural face and go out with her natural face and the next day choose to put on makeup and still like >> that. Sounds like really manipulative language. Why would you change something that you love? >> It's like changing a man that you love. >> Another house because you want to make any sense. You can change lots of things

Brian Atlasthat you love. >> I did not get an answer on my nano robot face morph thing. >> Question. >> So would do you guys think that that would be deceptive going around the table just yes or yes or no, I guess.

Brian AtlasYes. >> Yes. Yes. Absolutely. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> I don't think it would be compared to makeup. >> It's different than makeup, but it's achieving >> it's like plastic surgery >> the same. Well, so is plastic.

Brian Atlas>> You said a larger scale of change to clarify. Plastic surgery has nothing to do with makeup. >> But so okay, I mean that sure plastic surgery is a different component of this. Women also regularly employ the usage of plastic surgery to make them more attractive than they otherwise

Brian Atlasnaturally are. And maybe there's some women here who have Show of hands. Who has lip filler? >> I've had lip filler in my life. >> Have you had lip filler? Lip filler. Lip filler. Lip. >> I want it now after your rating. >> I know.

Anna>> Look, Ryan, what are your causing insecurities? >> Well, yeah, but I mean, maybe you've Anyone had Botox? >> I've had Botox. >> Botox. Bo. Anyone have fake titties? >> Fake titties. >> I did get fake. >> Fake labas. Maybe fake lady.

Brian Atlas>> I don't know. I think >> it's not fake. You just trimmed. >> Yeah, I just trimmed it. I think you know like what would actually be wrong with a guy buying some nano robots >> just say makeup at that point like you know like male makeup exists for like male models or whatever like

Brian Atlas>> and actors straight man wants >> but also that's your prerogative straight >> why would a man want to alter their appearance >> wait here can you not put your arms on the table cuz you're kind of blocking her out a little bit >> I just don't understand why a straight

Emily Mackman would want to alter their appearance or get plastic surgery like I feel like that's like maybe a gay man thing or actor type of thing, like a reason to be on television, you know.

Brian Atlas>> Well, you raised two two very good points. So, uh, as far as makeup goes, it's not socially acceptable for straight men, >> right, >> to wear makeup >> unless you're an actor. Yeah.

Brian Atlas>> Maybe very very like liberal or like alt punk women might be okay with it, but I'd say for 90% of women, it's >> it's not going to be acceptable for their

Brian Atlas>> So, can we ask everyone that question? >> Even liberal. I mean, we could go around the table like is it your how would how do we frame it? Like is it your preference to would you be attracted to a guy who wears makeup? >> No.

Brian Atlas>> No. >> No. >> No. >> No. Okay. >> No. >> Anybody? >> Okay. What? >> I know. Any guesses? But and then your point on plastic surgery, I would argue that uh men getting plastic surgery in a

Brian Atlassimilar vein is uh in terms of assessments from women. Uh while I think a lot I personally don't like plastic surgery in women, um I think it is generally more socially acceptable for

Brian Atlaswomen to get plastic surgery, the procedures that are available to them are more socially acceptable. There really isn't much uh that men can do plastic surgery wise that uh I mean there's some face stuff, but I don't

Brian Atlasknow. >> So do you think that's the real issue? It's the fact that men can't do it and it's not socially acceptable. So I would I I mean I'm against plastic surgery period. So I mean my >> my prescription here is not oh we should

Brian Atlasmake it socially acceptable for men to get plastic surgery. We should just well it's not jealousy. Uh we should just be against plastic surgery across the board for both men and women. >> We should be against plastic surgery and make

Emily Mack>> I personally think weird no matter which way you plastic surgery was originally made for war victims. >> He doesn't say what exactly that. >> Can you tilt your mic so it's like pointing towards you? There's a difference between >> So, what was your what was your

Emily Mack>> I was saying I think no matter which way you do plastic surgery, it looks weird and unnatural. Like even if you weren't that attractive and then you wanted to fix something about your face, I feel like it almost makes a person look worse. Like it was originally made for war victims. Like why are we doing this

Brian Atlasto ourselves? >> It just doesn't make it doesn't make sense to me. >> Yeah. I mean just to be clear on the plastic surgery thing of course uh people who have actual you know either injuries or deformities uh I I do make

Brian Atlassome exemptions for plastic surgery where they are more uh they're not purely for uh vain cosmetic reasons. They're like either correcting something or you know you have like half your face

Brian Atlaswas [ __ ] blown off with a [ __ ] I don't know grenade or some [ __ ] But yeah, you are the origination of plastic surgery was to correct like men who were in >> like if women have breast cancer then maybe I would want to put my back. I

Angelica (DC)think I'm okay with that. >> But what about the question of vanity? Like why exactly are women normalizing plastic surgery for vanity? Makeup for vanity if it's not socially accept. I never thought any of this was normal and I think the Kardashians made it

Barbara Adamsonmainstream. >> They did as a heavy makeup uh wearer. Can I jump in on this really quick? I'd actually be okay with banning the nanotech, the plastic surgery, and the

Barbara Adamsonmakeup and all cosmetics because then it levels the playing field and then I'd be totally cool. I'll give it all up. >> You two wear makeup to attract the type that you guys are like personality,

Barbara Adamsongenre, like wise attracted to. Other women wear makeup so as to appeal to men that they want to like be attracted to. >> It all comes down to male attraction. That's what makeup is rooted. It does

Barbara Adamsoneventually become like like I enjoy doing it. It can be soothing actually for me to put it on. But at the very root of like why makeup is a thing, it's because of you know wanting to be attractive to men.

Frankie>> We need to go to the root of this. >> If it's something that makes you if you we all admit that plastic surgery makes you look worse and that there's an effect that makeup at its obvious points can make you look worse and you could probably look better without it, then it's not for male attraction. It's but generally I can see where it started

Riley Nimioff. >> Yeah. we need to go to the root of it and that's that men find women attractive like the reason why it's so important for men to find women physically attractive is because it shows that the woman is healthy because they have a higher chance of carrying a successful pregnancy. When it comes to

Riley Nimieyebrows for example, if you have really really thin eyebrows, there's a higher likelihood that you were deprived of nutrients as a child. If you have thicker eyebrows, it shows that you were raised in a household that was able to properly give you food, which shows that you probably come from from a richer family, which will probably lead to more

Riley Nimiprosperous children. It's all about reproduction. Women don't care about looks because they care about a guy who can provide. Now, sometimes that ties into looks because it's like, "Oh, he's a hunter gatherer. He can kill a pig himself." But like, the reason why men care about a woman's looks so much is because it shows that she's healthy. So,

Riley Nimithat's why makeup is deceptive. Deceptive because it shows that she has good genetics or maybe is more healthy than she is when she really isn't that healthy. >> Which goes, >> well, then why don't y'all just date women that don't wear makeup? Because y'all are so against it. But friends wear makeup.

Angelica (DC)>> My girlfriend does not wear makeup. >> You like pictures with women who have makeup. Like I'm not seeing the complete opposite when y'all say y'all don't like >> when you're derated women that wear makeup. >> I would reverse engineer that argument.

Angelica (DC)The men who only like women that have plastic surgery and makeup are not typically men that women find attractive because they're seen as superficial, dumb, and easy to fool. >> So it's kind of like we wouldn't be attracted to a man who wants us all

Annadolled up looking like a sex doll. So then why would we turn ourselves into something artificial? >> Can I say this too, and I think maybe most of the table might agree with me. society as a whole. Like half the table just told Riley he'll be more attractive

Annawhen he's older. Men get older and women are like, "Wow, he's more attractive." Like Silver Fox daddy, whatever. I feel like society has pressure on women. We have one wrinkle and then we feel like we need to get some Botox, whatever.

Riley NimiBecause there's a big reason. It's because women with wrinkles are infertile most likely. That is why that is why men That is why men don't find That's not even accurate. >> That's not true. No, but that is the

Riley Nimiactual reason why men why men don't find women with wrinkles attractive or at least as attractive as a woman without it shows that they are of higher age which means that they're less fertile. It's not baby soft. It's cuz most men

Annathat's why we feel the pressure to look to make ourselves look a certain only woman look younger. Yeah. >> Men are it's more socially acceptable for men to look raggedy, have gray hair. It's cool. >> Well, because a man who's 55 can easily provide for a family.

Angelica (DC)>> Once again, I'm going to introduce a feminist argument. If we lived in a well functioning society where youth was not marketable and capitalist prone or whatever, women would age gracefully and be matrons within our society, giving younger women

Angelica (DC)good advice within marriages that they can then impart to make the society even better. The only reason women now are feeling compelled to look younger is because that's the only value in women nowadays in this society. But before there used to be a tremendous amount of

Angelica (DC)value in women who are older guiding the younger generations. Hence the whole idea of a grandmother imparting her skills, cooking, sewing, all of that jazz, being strong, being able to hold on the fort. Nowadays, women's only value is the physical because we've

Angelica (DC)stripped society away from any family values, from any sense of traditional, cultural, whatever. >> So, it's like you're basically destroying your face. Not because you're trying to cater to men, but it's because you don't have a man that makes you feel

Angelica (DC)stable or grounded yet. And that's a product of how dysfunctional our society is. So, we're wearing makeup because we don't have man that into the mic.

Angelica (DC)>> I also agree with what that is. >> Do you wear makeup for your man at home? >> I do. >> Sometimes. Yeah. >> That's different. You wear makeup for a different reason. >> You do it for a cultural sort of like because

Anna>> my husband likes he likes me both ways. >> Nice. Nice. Can we also ask the question? Like I when I went out all over Europe, I it was very the women over there were very natural. The and and the men over when I would run >> because they're not fat. when I would

Annarun into Well, I'm just saying they didn't wear makeup. They didn't like I had pink toe nails. They didn't they didn't they weren't into doing the nails thing. It was like also a very like I don't want to say just Americanized, but it's a cultural thing, too. >> They're a homogeneous nation that basically has prioritized their

Angelica (DC)heritage. They know what a French woman looks like. They know what an Italian woman looks like. >> Natural beauty bodies. When it comes Exactly. When it comes to American women, especially in the 20th century, when their culture has been ripped from

Angelica (DC)them for the sake of like the post World War II boom, all of our appearance post 1950s has been like commercial dull, marketable, like look like this, look like that. When before in the 1800s, it

Angelica (DC)was valued that you were a strong, sturdy woman who wore no makeup, who was going to be resourceful, loving, caring, your character traits were what was emphasized cuz makeup wasn't a factor. Beauty, vanity was not a value system in a society like that. Like if you go to

Angelica (DC)Paris, they don't really wear makeup. >> You can have beauty and still have character traits though. >> Yes, you can. But it's like why would you hide your beauty behind the makeup though? Cuz often times women are actually way more beautiful when they

Angelica (DC)don't wear makeup because their natural features are shining. Even if they're older, their natural features, their their life or whatever is imprinted on their face. >> To you. >> To everyone. You what?

Angelica (DC)>> To you. To you because you judge women falsely. To you because you judge women artificially. You're not a feminist judge superficial. I judge women based on standard of their natural beauty. They are beautiful without any money invested. They are beautiful for their natur.

Angelica (DC)>> Are you wearing makeup right now? >> A little bit of eyeliner. >> Oh my gosh, that's so deceptive of you. But anyway, what I was going to say is you have no eyebrows. What are you talking about? >> Criticize. That's >> not enough as a kid. >> What did you say? >> No, saying not enough nutrients as a

Angelica (DC)kid. >> Okay. >> Um, no. What I was going to say is I just personally think if makeup is applied correctly on every woman, it does make >> it's supposed to enhance. It's not supposed to take away. It's supposed to That's the purpose typically of makeup to enhance your features.

Angelica (DC)>> But what I'm arguing is why are you enhancing it? You are naturally beautiful. >> Why not? >> Because number one, the financial >> She's from Utah. I'm actually from Delaware. I live in Utah. >> Uh no, I just because I like it. >> Also, my eyebrows are looking more

Angelica (DC)visible on camera than hers. Not going to lie. >> Serious. >> No one cares. Well, at the end of the day, when it comes to that, >> she's sort of that. >> When it comes to a financial incentive, once again, there's an entire industry targeting women to give them insecurity since they're little girls to get

Angelica (DC)makeup. Like that one elephant makeup pack that was being marketed to girls under 10 years old. That's where it starts. Why exactly do you think women are basically blaming men for having high like beauty standards when in reality, a guy would pretty much date a five without makeup with no problem?

Angelica (DC)It's women who are judging themselves too harshly, and they're allowing actually gay men to dictate beauty standards for them. including the face, the beautiful fat removal, the everything like >> Do I have an ompic face?

Brian Atlas>> No, actually your look Well, your look actually looks like Len D to me. So, it's Thank you. Brian, can we do a shot or not? Shot the I need a shot, please. Brian the champagne with that. I think >> you're doing that. But yeah, Robert Tanner.

Angelica (DC)>> I don't know. I just feel like if makeup was banned, it just wouldn't bother me at all. >> Once again, you're gorgeous. >> Yeah. Stop. Stop. Stop. So, uh, somebody here has pronouns or something. Who's that? Is that you? Are you the pronoun?

Riley NimiNo, she's in the bathroom. [ __ ] Okay, I'll have to Does anybody here have like >> Well, we all incorrect. >> Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. Um, >> Robert Tanner needs to realize that a $1,000 investment will get you buzzed,

Brian Atlasbut like a $4,000 investment would just get Brian wasted. Like, that's so much lightweight. That's so much better. >> I am a lightweight. I literally three sips. I'm [ __ ] >> four times the cost is 100 times better.

Brian AtlasBut I I I kind of derailed a bit from your question. So I got I brought it into makeup your question. What is the purpose of the looks rating thing? >> Uh okay. So

Brian Atlas>> and did you get into your objections? >> No, I'm just genuinely curious like what like is it cuz you're >> like what is the purpose of looks rating in general or asking it on the on the podcast?

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. So I think that so my position is I think that uh not all women but a good amount of them typically have a uh inaccurate self assessment of their own

Brian Atlasphysical attractiveness and uh typically women tend to overappraise their attractiveness. they tend to overrate themselves and whether they genuinely believe that or not I

Brian Atlassuppose is up for a debate but I think it speaks to a bit of the there's there's ego there's pride there's hubris that on its own I find kind of uh

Brian Atlasunappealing uh sort of like not it's not even like an attraction thing I just I genuinely generally find

Brian Atlasuh hubris and pride kind of uh kind of uh poor characteristics. I think modesty, um, humbleness, I think those

Brian Atlassort of traits ought to be cultivated more than just excessive pride and and that. But I think the big thing is one of the reasons I ask it is well I don't

Brian Atlasknow if it's necessarily reason I ask it but I can tell you what the the implication is for the dating landscape when you have not just the women who come on the show but I would argue if you go out in public and ask women you

Brian Atlasknow how do you assess your attractiveness there's a degree of delusion. I think a lot of women think they're more attractive than they actually are. And so, and part of this is because since very young, you know,

Brian Atlasyou you get the what is it the trophy? What is the thing with the the the participation trophy, the you women are princesses and you're you're all amazing and you need to oh my god, the world,

Brian Atlasyou deserve the world. And it's like that's this very Disney thing where all these women think that they're Disney princesses, but the reality is uh or they're kings or not kings, excuse me, women think they're queens and

Brian Atlasprincesses. Realistically, if we're going to use like um royal royalty, I think most women at best are court jesters. Like, you're not a queen. You're not royalty. You're you're a

Brian Atlaspeasant. >> I think you're all peasants. I'm a peasant. We're not We're not special snowflakes. We're all [ __ ] Most people are just [ __ ] average. And so, the reality is though, I think a lot of

Brian Atlaswomen overappraise themselves. They overrate themselves. And so, um, how's that going to play out in the dating landscape? If you think you are, uh, more attractive than you actually are,

Brian Atlasyou're going to start aiming for men outside of your league. And then that's here's what's going to happen. Uh, well, there's a whole bunch of [ __ ] that's going to happen. One, the men who are actually on your level,

Brian Atlasyou're settling for them. That's [ __ ] It's terrible for the men, it's terrible for you. Uh so if a bunch of women find like for example most women uh well I'd

Hannahsay averagel looking women want to date above average men and uh it's about 5050. >> I would argue you see a lot more men that are less attractive with like solid

Brian Atlas8 n10s. >> Yeah. Well, hold on. Wait, wait. But that's because women are really generous with their their uh assessment and ratings of their own and other women's

Brian Atlasuh attractiveness and really harsh judges uh really harsh judges of men's attractiveness. So, this idea that like I'll grant to you that sometimes you'll see, by the way, it goes both ways.

Brian AtlasYou'll see like a really hot girl with like a you know, she moss him. She's better looking than him. You also see the reverse too. Um, however, I do think it's the case that if women rate other

Brian Atlaswomen higher and are harsh with their ratings towards men, then like this you saying that, well, I see really good-looking women with like ugly men. I mean, okay, that's just because you're you're >> No, that's cuz I'm saying I think we

Annacome back to more character. Like, that's what I was trying to say earlier. >> I also think insecure women tend to date down. >> Okay. But so my I guess my my point is

Brian Atlasis that women are going to be chasing after uh a caliber of man. If if they genuinely believe, okay, I'm this I'm this attractive, they're going to be chasing after a caliber of man that

Brian Atlasmight give them sex, but isn't going to give them a relationship, marriage, a ring, etc. Because there's a difference that occurs when it comes to dating. I

Brian Atlasthink for uh not all men, right? Not all men, but I think men, how do I frame this the best?

Brian AtlasMen will sleep with a woman that he would never just on her looks alone. Men will sleep with a woman that he would never be in a relationship with. He's just using her for sex, but he's like

Brian Atlashe'll go down. He'll date down essentially sleep down. And so because this is a phenomenon, you can have a woman who's a five, a six, or a seven. She can go [ __ ] like a guy who's more

Brian Atlasattractive than her. She can she can go sleep with him and like a woman, you just got to be pleasant and offer sex. That's it. And when I say pleasant, it's just like don't be a [ __ ] psycho crazy [ __ ] Just be like pleasant.

Brian AtlasExcuse me, sir. Want some [ __ ] I mean, not literally, but like that's all it takes for you as women. Not all not all like hyperattractive men are going to bite on that. But like on Tinder, on

Brian Atlasdating apps, you see the attention go to the top 10% of men on the dating apps. Meanwhile, like the rest are fighting over scraps and pretty much just like

Brian Atlascompletely zeroed out. And so, let let me just finish. And so if women are not realistic about their own attractiveness, they're going to uh

Brian Atlasreject men who are actually their league, their equivalent, and they're going to be uh sleeping with, pursuing, attempting to date uh really attractive

Brian Atlasmen. Now, this doesn't play out for all women. Uh but that's I would say that's pretty much one like the the big issues that I see. And then um then as a woman once you've

Brian Atlashad a taste of like a really attractive guy, you can't go back. Like there's no going back. And if you do, you're going to feel resentful. Like you're going to you're going to have resentment for your your looks league. You're going to Well,

Brian Atlasnot even your your looks league. You're going to have resentment for your league. >> Like you're Yeah. Yeah. You're going to have resentment. And uh that that's why these women they they [ __ ] around in their 20s. They get married at 30 and

Brian Atlasthen like they get married to Joe Schmo because he's the only guy who will give her commitment. Meanwhile, she spent her [ __ ] 20s uh chasing after hot dudes and just getting ran through by [ __ ]

Brian AtlasChad. And then she's the dick was better. He was more attractive. He was more psychologically and sexually stimulating because he was more attractive. Uh and then you're going to maybe pump out one or two kids and then I'm bored. I'm bored. I'm bored. He

Brian Atlasdoesn't stimulate me. He's not attractive. You're going to divorce him within a couple years. you're going to break up the entire family when that's actually your looks league. >> I would reverse engineer the argument and say that except for the cases of girls who are very insecure, so they're

Angelica (DC)not really they're dysfunctional to the mainstream society and girls who rebel against the norms, which I take that you are, typically women are in the red pill sphere hypergamous. So women usually will focus on a man's social status way

Hannahmore than his physical attributes, which >> that's what I was going to say. I feel like you're putting it all on attraction when I'm like for me a league would be how is he as a dad? How is he successful? Is he driven? Like there's more than just I don't >> I don't think for Yeah. >> What if they were women? I really don't

Hannahcare about looks to be honest. I don't either. >> I don't care about I really don't say they don't care about looks are [ __ ] >> I care about looks chemistry and attraction. But there are other things that will add to that.

Brian Atlas>> But that's not my my argument isn't women only care about looks. Women care about looks and then like a [ __ ] ton of other things too. >> And you guys figure out a lot of stuff too. >> I totally agree. Men should care Men should care about other things. Women

Brian Atlasdon't care about looks as much. >> That's exactly that's I think we are way less superficial with looks. I do. >> I kind of disagree with this. I actually think women are more superficial than

Brian Atlassupericial. I side I side with Brian on this. >> So here's my argument. This is >> Now I do think it is the case that for example men can make up for their lack

Brian Atlasof looks through other means. So like if he's really confident or he's really funny or if he has status or if he's a professional athlete or he's he's bringing some his personality whatever

Brian Atlasbut like very few men actually reach like those high levels where like they will overcome their deficit in their looks like very few like how many men are like that level of funny. How many

Brian Atlasmen how many men are that rich? How many men are that famous? How many men have that amount of status? How many men are hyper successful? Like I could I give you an example real quick? >> Let I'll just finish my point, but

Brian Atlasabsolutely. Um so I think for example in terms of my position that I think women uh care more about looks. I think that of the things that when it comes to looks, women care about. Uh those tend

Brian Atlasto be things that are completely outside the man's control. So height, hair, which look uh if a guy's balding, he can't like please don't let me go. Like he can't really control that. Uh

Brian Atlasobviously there's intervention like he could do uh there there's drugs he could get hair transplants but absent uh intervention to that degree. If a guy's balding like can't really control it. Um

Brian Atlasheight, penis size, men can't control this thing that men cannot control these things and these are things physical traits that women care about. Whereas you know whereas like for men

Brian Atlas>> like yeah men like big boobs you can't as a woman you can't really control that. meant like big butt, nice butt, which you can you can get through working out. Um, but overall it's like

Brian Atlasjust don't be fat. >> For men, it's mostly just don't be fat. >> Women can control, but uh height, hair, uh, and penis size. Men can't control that. Women care a [ __ ] ton about

Frankieheight. >> Men can't control hair. >> No. Like if a guy's balding >> Oh, I see. I see. like he can't like yeah he can get surgery or whatever but >> I don't think penis size matters though >> that's fine for you I would argue I

Angelica (DC)would argue it matters for talking about the average >> I would also argue that when it comes to looks everyone cares about looks because if you're attracted to someone that's the baseline of you initiating a relationship with them but when it comes to women if a man is not attractive to

Angelica (DC)them they'll be nice to them at first but if he insists it starts to feel dangerous when he's unattractive men don't have that same complex so women really I think actually do value looks more than men only because if a man is

Angelica (DC)unattractive and insists you're scared of him. Meanwhile, if a woman is unattractive and she insists with a man, they're they, as Brian said, they might just end up using them for sex. >> No, you have women all the time that are like, I was not even attracted to this

Hannahguy from the beginning. I would >> they're insecure. They don't follow the the norm. >> I disagree. I think that you can genuinely not be attracted to a dude and then get to know him and become attracted. Very rarely do you find a guy dating a girl saying, "I was not

Barbara Adamsonattracted to her and I'm with her." I do think there's a baseline level of I I kind of agree with you, but I do think there's like a baseline like level of physical like a threshold of physical

Barbara Adamsonattractiveness that they have to get over. But then I do agree that like if you like the guy's personality, you tend to find him more physically attractive the more you get to know him. >> Also, my 600 lb life as it was brought

Angelica (DC)up, there's a lot of men who will only date what they can get. And it's not a matter of, oh, they found her attractive. It's like this is the only That's an exact same thing. But you're saying you're saying that as a woman you have to be and as a woman you don't when you're insecure you'll date someone

Hannahyou're not necessarily attracted to. >> I disagree with that. I have dealt with being married before. I'm like I absolutely need attraction but that is not the forefront. There are so many other things in my life that are more important than just being like this is

Brian Atlasthe sexiest sexiest man alive. >> But by that logic you're basically saying I didn't find you physically attractive. I only married you for x. But but you also have to factor in that I think the majority of our relationships are now now starting

Brian Atlasonline. A lot of people are meeting on dating apps. It's a massive way in which people are meeting. And I I mean you're going to have to ford the the like we've we've done this experiment. I mean we could even do it tonight. Although

Brian Atlasbecause I've preempted my point here, I feel like you guys would adjust your answers. We've gone around uh gone around the table, pulled up Bumble and just had girls like yes or no. Would you go on a date with this guy? And just on

Brian Atlasthe looks alone, women will reject like 90% of the men that they're presented with. And it's like, so it's like, okay, well, the experience on the dating app is, well, it's almost exclusively looks.

Brian AtlasAnd then, yeah, of course, like if the guy's a piece of [ __ ] maybe maybe you still [ __ ] him, but uh the looks have to come first. And so I'm not saying that there's other things like you can bolster your as a man you can bolster

Brian Atlasyourself and other by the way I think women can also also bolster themselves through their personality. Okay you're an average looking girl are you pleasant? Are you not a [ __ ] are you not a hoe? Um do you [ __ ] do you cook?

Brian AtlasDo you clean? Do you do things for him? Do you make yourself helpful to him? Are you submissive? Um do you have good values? Etc. etc. you can make yourself

Brian Atlasmore appealing to men, but I mean >> I I would argue that when it comes to to to women, this idea that women don't care about looks uh or it's kind of like

Hannaha minimal concern for women completely ridiculous. No, Brian, I have an argument. >> I don't really care. I just think it's not like as harsh as to most men probably are. >> But I mean, wait, Brian, I wanted to bring up my argument here. So,

Brian Atlasbasically, you're familiar with Alex Stein, right? >> Yeah, of course. Yeah. >> What would you rate Alex Stein? >> Uh, Alex Stein. Um, well, he's a tall guy. He's like 6'4 or something, so that

Brian Atlasthat helps for him. He's funny. >> Uh, looks but looks wise, honestly, like very average face, maybe below average. >> Okay. Okay. So, at ANFest when I was with him, he was just getting surrounded by women that all obviously wanted him.

Brian AtlasSee, >> so it's like that's why it's like sure it might like not matter like a little it matters a little bit for the looks but like >> well so to be fair though Alex Stein Alex Stein is has some you were at where

Brian Atlasis it CPA or what did you say Phoenix? >> Yeah. So I mean um Alex Stein has a following. He has some status within the conservative circle. Um women were just these conservative women just throwing

Angelica (DC)their p like throwing their panties. >> I mean essentially yeah it was it was getting close to it. Yeah. Especially the Latinos. argue against the dating app theory only because Tinder, Bumble, all of these apps were designed after Grinder, a gay dating app. Women don't function the same way gay men do. We're

Angelica (DC)not going to date someone that we don't know because it's just not safe. So, the only women who are going out on the majority of these apps are women who are unstable and reckless. >> I don't think that's true. >> I met I met my husband on Tinder.

Barbara Adamson>> I don't think that's true. I think like >> honestly I actually know several couples who are married that met on dating but for a 90% that's anecdotal but for a 90% rejection rate I think there's an

Angelica (DC)element of safety where you just don't want to go out with random guy if if you nail someone who's like gorgeous sure >> hold on but everyone's a stranger before like >> but if you meet organically that's different in a safe controlled

Angelica (DC)environment but if you're meeting online that's different >> I think it's safer to vet men because I've found, you know, >> but how would you vet a men from an internet experience? Like stranger

Angelica (DC)danger was an application we were raised with. How is that not applicable to a romantic sexual situation? >> Yeah, I think we meet in public. I mean, the safety of dating apps. I mean, there are precautions that a woman can take

Brian Atlasprior to meeting up with a man that would al alleviate most of the >> uh concerns. I mean, obviously, you meet in a public place. You have a phone call, a FaceTime call beforehand. You vet them on the phone beforehand. You

Angelica (DC)>> give them your address. Um, yeah, you meet you meet somewhere public. So, um, I mean, >> but why it's a gay dating app? Models for heterosexual dynamics would not work effectively for the same intentions that

Angelica (DC)a gay dating app would work. It's a hookup app just to have sex with whoever. Gay men obviously have that for their culture. With Tinder and all of this jazz, if it's a dating app, it's not going to have the same efficacy. >> I want to go back to to I guess your

Brian Atlaspoint, which is why do we ask this question? Why does it matter? from what I see in the dating landscape. And look, just to be clear, I think uh men can be delusional, too. There's definitely men out there who think they're more attractive than they otherwise are,

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