RAGE QUITS?! Andrew Wilson vs. Liberal Feminists! 2+24? TOO Picky?! | Dating Talk #161

Date: 2024-05-15

Duration: 7h 18m

Guests

Brian Atlas

AAndrew Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_03Sophia(guest)

SPEAKER_04Paige(guest)

SPEAKER_05Yael(guest)

SPEAKER_06Lissa(guest)

SPEAKER_07Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_08Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_10Lauren(guest)

SPEAKER_11Ena(guest)

SPEAKER_13Haley(guest)

SPEAKER_14Audrey(guest)

Key Moments

QuoteAudrey chooses bear: "I would say a bear because I know that at least like the worst thing he could do is kill me, a man could do a variety of things"

QuoteAndrew calculates that if 30-40% of men would attack women, that equals 33-55 million American men who would assault women in the woods

QuoteAndrew's bear logic test: "walk over to random men you don't know, reach over and pat them on the head and walk away; do the same with wild bears — which one attacks you quicker"

ControversySophia says she would rather be killed in a home invasion than have her husband use a gun to defend them because she is terrified of firearms

QuoteLissa rates herself a 10 out of 10; says she is "showstopping"

QuoteAndrew Wilson rates himself a 4 out of 10 on looks

ControversyLauren directly challenges Andrew Wilson on his treatment of born-again women: "it sort of seems like you are extra harsh on them... it doesn't seem like it's coming from love"

ControversyYael accuses Andrew of hypocrisy: "do you know what's also wrong — smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol... your body is a temple"

ControversyAudrey expresses collective frustration near end of show: "we feel a little bit irritated and a little bit disrespected... we came here thinking we were going to speak about our experience and all we did was essentially get argued against"

QuoteFinal body count round: Audrey states body count of 2; most others decline to answer

Topics Discussed

Introductions and relationship statuses

Brian introduces the panel; each guest states name, age, location, occupation, and relationship status. Includes extended discussion of Yael's complicated situationship with ex-boyfriend at Cal Poly.

Friends with exes

Panel discusses whether remaining friends with an ex is a good look in a new relationship.

Man vs bear viral debate

Extended multi-round discussion of the viral "man or bear in the woods" question. Panel divided; most chose bear. Andrew Wilson and Brian present statistical and logical rebuttals. Covers per capita attack rates, anthropomorphizing animals, bear vs man safety.

Bumble swiping segment

Each guest given 20 Bumble profiles to swipe yes/no on. Most guests were very selective (few or no yes swipes). Discussion of why they said no to most profiles.

Gun ownership and home invasion

Panel asked about comfort with partners owning firearms and home invasion scenario. Several guests expressed fear of guns; Sophia said she would rather be killed than have husband use a gun. Haley stated a man must own a firearm to date her.

Self-ratings (looks 1-10)

Brian asks each guest to rate their looks 1-10. Ratings ranged from 4 (Andrew) to 10 (Lissa). Extended debate about what a 10 means and whether self-rating reflects comparative standards.

Attractiveness over time and fertility

Brian asks if guests will be more attractive in 10 years. Andrew follows up asking about fertility decline. Debate about whether women peak in 20s and delusional self-assessments.

Taking a bullet / gender roles in protection

Panel asked if men should take a bullet for their girlfriend. Extended discussion of car-or-Grim-Reaper sacrifice scenarios. Debate about whether expecting men to defend honor while rejecting bullet-taking is inconsistent.

Andrew Wilson vs born-again women / women in clergy

Lauren challenges Andrew on his treatment of born-again women on the show. Andrew explains he objects to false theology not personal reform. Extended theological debate about whether women can be Christian clergy; Andrew cites 1 Timothy.

Feminism, oppression, and men vs women

Broad debate on feminism, whether patriarchy exists, gender oppression comparisons, male vs female emotional decision-making, and whether women should vote.

Military conscription and draft equity

Brian and Andrew argue that male-only selective service is a counter-example to feminist equity arguments. Audrey struggles to propose an equitable solution. Discussion of whether women being exempt from draft is a privilege.

Racism toward white people / white privilege

Panel asked if you can be racist toward white people. Lissa says no (prejudice+power definition). Andrew challenges with bigotry framing. Brief white privilege discussion.

Closing chaos roast section

TTS donation roast messages read aloud. Body count round at end. Audrey states body count of 2. Others decline. Brian wraps up and does Twitch raid.

Transcript

Page 6 of 8

Brian Atlashistory I would argue that the burdens placed on men and this actually comes down to one sole uh male specific grievance uh I think that all feminist

Brian Atlasarguments about oppression are Dead on Arrival uh in fact men have been more oppressed than women and here's precisely how so all of women's Collective griev grievances fall flat in

Brian Atlasthe face of just one Soul male grievance and that's forced uh military

Audreyconscription um uh so you said you think that men are more oppressed than women because they are subject to being forced to fight in

Andrew Wilsona war so I'm putting aside all the other male grievances that I've listed and there's quite a few and they're quite significant but just not just for fighting a war that can be pressed into conscription for anything which is voted

Andrew Wilsonin by prescription of Congress to draft them for it could be a war it could be some other National effort we don't know we've never seen the full extent of it implemented in law but it's actually quite

Brian Atlasbroad so I mean yes throughout all of human history history yes I would argue that that sole male only grievance is

Brian Atlasbigger than all of the uh women's Collective grievances combined do okay let me ask you are you I'm I'm a little bit baffled I'm not

Brian Atlasgoing to lie okay well I mean what's a bigger grievance not being allowed to vote or the death of 20 million men I think that you're kind of

Brian Atlasquantifying it in a weird way I well I'm playing the feminist game here feminism is a a comparison feminism is a comparison game women have it worse than men and here I am giving you push back

Brian Atlasand saying well hold on look at let's look at this Dimension that is a gendered thing this gendered expectation

Brian Atlasthat men can be forced to go die in some War go die in some

Audreytrench um like I I can see how how as a man I would probably not not be a fan of the draft because I wouldn't want to die

Audreyum I think the fact that you think that that men are somehow more oppressed than women I also you're going back to this

Audreyidea that feminism is innately a comparison game it is um how could it not be in in your in your opinion the way that you're defining feminism and if you'll want to try to say that I'm not a

Audreyfeminist and from your logic game that's fine in your in your world I'm you could say I'm not a feminist or whatever if you if that's the type of path that you're trying to lead me down but the

Audreything is that you certainly are well but the thing is that I was emphasizing that I think that feminist feminism needs to evolve to continue on with the same goal

Audreythat I think women had in mind at least the goal that I had in mind when I which is equity not equality what I'm a little confused what the what what's Equity

Audreywhat would be an example of equity so there's the way I learned about it is that there could be a series of boxes yeah I'm familiar so so do you know what

AudreyI'm talking about where in in this sense Equity would be measures to have women have the same rights in the eyes of society and also men so it would the

Audreyways that women and men would be uphold it would be in different ways I'm I'm saying that this view of feminism that women need to somehow now have it better off than men or that some

Audreywomen would say that women continue to have it worse than men would be in Disguise that it's a comparative structure what I'm saying is that the whole idea of comparison is pinning the

Andrew Wilsonsides against each other it's not about that it's about it's about seeing each other for what we really need can I just interject and just ask one quick clarifying question um assume for a

Audreysecond the draft tomorrow was expanded to women and you were drafted would you go um I don't want to fight in a war and I'm not saying that men want to fight in

Audreya war either I know that there was a whole lot yeah I know of would I go fight in a war yeah no I don't think I would be very good in combat I also don't want to die

Brian Atlasselfishly did you have a followup Andrew or I I have some no no I just wanted to get that clarified real quick okay well I mean when it comes to this whole military conscription thing what would

Brian Atlasbe the feminist Equity perspective on the current state of things when it comes to equity and the fact that men are only subject to military conscription I'm not going to say that I

Audreyhave an answer but I would say that if if women are against fighting in a war and being subject to the draft and you're using a feminist agenda to try to

Audreyuphold that it would be a kind of a weak argument it would have holes in it because you would say well if you think that women and men are equal then get on the battlefield with them but I think that men also love to uphold the idea

Audreythat part of the gender expectations that are held upon them is that they are the protectors and they are physically stronger and so if you're physically stronger and you want to

Brian Atlasprotect me then go do it well what if a man doesn't want to be drafted that doesn't really change the fact that in the event of a draft he would be drafted

Brian Atlascan I ask something what's up I don't know the historics of it like how is that how did it come to be what do you mean like drafting people and like I mean I think I could take a crack at

Brian Atlasthis but I mean throughout all human history different tribes wared with each other and if you were a man and you were able bodied they would put a spear in

Brian Atlasyour hand and say you're going to defend the tribe otherwise they're going to take our our land they're going to take our women they're going to commit atrocities against our civilian population so I would imagine it just

Andrew Wilsongoes way back into human history of there's Waring tribes there's different U there's different I would actually um even go a step further and just grant I

Andrew Wilsonthink what you're angling at um which is I think the patriarchy brought us the draft yeah exactly that it was a system of patriarchy which brought us the draft

Andrew Wilsonuh here in the United States do you guys disagree with that or was that kind of where you were going with that no that's so valid yeah yeah totally right so I

Andrew Wilsongot to ask you a question how in the world could we ever repeal any of these things which the patriarchy have imposed upon us without appealing again to

Audreyanother patriarchy to do so you can't you can't another which means that that grid one is correct and patriarchy is inevitable what's your

Audreyother version of a different patriarchy like a a matriarchy what could you appeal to which was not a patriarchy and would not become a patriarchy by necessity in

Audreyorder to overthrow a patriarchy I've never been here to necessarily overthrow the patriarchy I think that it's kind of a combative way of looking at the whole situation and

Andrew WilsonI've I've seen models of a matriarchy that think so for since let's say you passed laws you would say that you would pass laws in order to get rid of this

Andrew Wilsonnefarious patriarchy right I didn't say that okay but I I don't understand then how would you replace a patriarchy you keep saying I want to

Andrew Wilsonreplace the patriarchy I never said that I wanted to replace the patriarchy okay so then can you answer my question of how you would be able to to replace a patriarchy even if you don't want to absent appealing to a

Andrew Wilsonpatri Archy I don't think that I necessarily have the answer to that question yeah because nobody has an answer to that question because it's you necessarily will always create a new patriarchy no

Andrew Wilsonmatter what you have to appeal to the thing which you're trying to dismantle in order to dismantle the thing that's why it's cyclical it can't ever really work so so you're saying that men are

Andrew Wilsonsystematically superior to women uh in the uh domain of force application yes they are 100% Superior to women in every single way almost when

Andrew Wilsonit comes to force application for you like strength well not just strength but any Force application be it Machinery uh guns any of these things are going to be

Andrew Wilsoninherently Superior because they are stronger and have larger skeletons wait I did want to go oh go ahead Andrew so so essentially I'm just

Andrew Wilsonsaying that the reason that this to me has always been circular logic is because I cannot ever seem to get an answer of how you would dismantle a patriarchy without appealing to a patriarchy thus creating a new

Andrew Wilsonpatriarchy in order to dismantle the old one what are your thoughts on a matriarchy I'm just curious they uh they're they're non-existent they can't actually exist because of this Force applicated no a a theoretical matriarchy

Andrew Wilsonthey can't even theoretically exist I don't think because of the force applicator so as long as there's men in the society they're always going to have a do the uh Monopoly on Force application because that's true I don't

Andrew Wilsonthink a matriarchy is actually logically possible unless you were in some like really lopsided situation like um I don't know you had 10,000 women and like a 100 men I think that that might be

Andrew Wilsonpossible but even then I'm not sure you know I'm not even sure then so but I don't think it's logically possible inside of General societies to have matriarchal system do you think that

Audreyum I lost my train of thought but you think that a matriarchy in theory just wouldn't it wouldn't work because women like in order for a society to operate

Andrew Wilsonon a functional basis you would need Force strong force operation to be you have to have Force applicators in order to enforce the law of the land so in other words if there's a criminal and

Andrew Wilsonyou want him punished there has to be big Burly strong guys who take his ass to court and throw him in prison and guard him at night and there has to be big strong men around to guard you at night with guns from other men who might

Brian Atlashurt you so yeah absent the force applicator I I don't see how it could ever work I can see what you're saying here I got one one question I didn't really get

Brian Atlaslike a straight answer on this so what would be the equ Equitable thing when it comes to the current state of the

Audreymilitary uh the draft um I don't I don't have a strong answer um I would say that in the guise

Audreyof the patriarchy men if they are in fact the superior force and they are viewed in their gender rules but from the feminist world view from the feminist world view you said it was about Equity oh oh if I were to propose

Brian Atlassomething to unpress the men no I'm just let's assume that a draft is required like you can't get rid of a

Brian Atlasdraft there there is a draft Yeah like there the United States has a draft right so I mean it I don't know if I'm oversimplifying this but I mean the immediate answer that comes to my mind

Audreyis you would simply equalize the draft women and men are subject to military conscription that would be the automatic answer would be that both men and women would be subject to to being in the Army

Brian Atlasbut under your whole thing with feminism being for Equity would that be Equitable for both men and women to be subject to military

Audreyconscription I would I would say not necessarily also you're you're taking the way that I defined feminism and you're creating this whole idea that

AudreyI'm defending feminism to the ends of the Earth under the guise of its definition as it exists now and that's not what I said I said that I'm I was actually criticizing some of the elements of feminism I said I don't

Audreythink it should be a comparative structure but I'm just a little bit confused so like do you think that um women should be allowed to vote do I think that the sky is blue of

Brian Atlascourse I do right I'm and I'm in favor of women voting but it's interesting to me that you're you you immediately say yes women should be allowed to vote but you can't really give me a straight

Brian Atlasanswer on if it's Equitable for women to be subject to military conscription the same way that men are well I did tell you I said that if men want to say that

Audreyin a society they are the ones that are the protectors they're the providers they're physically stronger under feminism we don't we don't really say that do we I wouldn't say that we do because I think in feminism people don't

Audreylike to necessarily buy into evolutionary roles um because I would say that it's limiting I don't think the evolutionary roles are necessarily the way that we must live in society I think

Audreythat's a little bit archaic but like in some ways I think that it is useful to look at it through that lens when we look at the innate strengths of men and women but the thing is that at this point in society

Audreythat's not I wasn't put on this Earth to make babies and cook at home or whatever or be a gatherer per se and that men are going to be Hunters that's not the way that I was raised at

Laurenleast were you put here to cure cancer no I don't she has a point that then once we get to this point where women have our rights we're educated

Brian Atlaswe're you know we've so if women weren't put here to be what just say what you said again to be

Brian Atlasbaby makers and gatherers right and Men weren't put here to be disposable parts of the uh military industrial complex and just be put in the same

Audreyway no I'm being I'm to be just put through the meat grinder of War well if you were to parallel the logic you're saying and you're saying women are baby makers and gatherers men would be

Andrew Wilsonproviders and hunters and protectors and part of that ENT hang on hang on but how can you say that they're they're not men provide the food overwhelmingly they provide basically all of it in fact

Andrew Wilsonwomen provide almost none of it men provide all the infrastructure how are they not providing and Gathering seems like that's exactly what they're doing what do you mean MSE in every

Laurenhousehold I don't know if that's true now that feminism has like well you can buy the food but it's made by men sure like they're in the farms and they're in the houses yeah who do you

Andrew Wilsonthink is making all the food wom out there with and they're going and they're they're hiking up the Cabbage like what do you think going on out there well not only are is it majority

Brian Atlasmen in agriculture how do you get the food from point A to point B men are overwhelmingly for example truck drivers I don't I don't think that

Brian Atlasanyone has was but let let me double down a bit on this and then how do trucks run while they run on oil men are overwhelming the overwhelmingly the on on who are for

Andrew Wilsonexample uh in the oil industry who takes care of your children I don't see how that's really well generally not their mother unfortunately because feminism demands that mothers I'm going to answer

Andrew Wilsonyour question generally the mother is not taking care of the children at home which is the most optimal system because feminism has demanded that women go into the workplace in order to have these

Andrew Wilsoncrazy social safety nets so we actually Outsource the raising of our children to strangers that seems less than optimal to me but who are those caregivers typically are they men or are they women uh

Andrew Wilsongenerally speaking women are doing the same jobs that they've always done yes so they're in teaching roles in service industry that's basically what they mostly do um and I don't I don't even see why there's necessarily a problem

Andrew Wilsonwith that it's fine for uh your child I guess to uh go to school in kindergarten have a kindergarten teacher but out I think that Outsourcing your child care for the purpose of you going to work is

Andrew Wilsona less than optim opal system that seems to be something which is far more oppressive to women than any of these systems that you've cited well this was a system designed by men so maybe you should talk to the men about why women

Andrew Wilsonhave to go and work it has not been women since they've had egalitarianism have been able to vote on these systems and have definitely had their input and have reformed how these systems operate

Andrew Wilsonabsent patriarchy that's not true that women have no say now and that this is a patriarchal system women by and large they vote as almost as much as men do I

Audreywasn't talking about political power necessarily well I mean even insti I mean look at the ratio in Congress I mean like it's pretty obvious who's in

Andrew Wilsonpower how is that obvious just look at the numbers you love to look at numbers yeah but the systems themselves are not just designed by Congress but by lobbyists by uh women inside of

Andrew WilsonEducational Systems there's all sorts of pull and thrust because now women are political pwns because they can vote right sure I guess you could say that um

Andrew WilsonI wouldn't reduce women down to political ponds but well I mean but your overlords in Congress would wouldn't they they would wouldn't they yeah they

Andrew Wilsonwould they would so that's how they are viewed men and women as just being a demographic of voting ponds are men political ponds in the same way yet they

Andrew Wilsonhave to go into the draft Yeah men are men have also been political ponds that's correct but when it comes to the draft there's no real way around it because you cannot have a

Andrew Wilsonfighting force which is equipped by mostly not men and have it be effective there's just there's no good way around that well then how is it oppression to your point what do you mean well it would be oppression because there's no

Andrew Wilsonadditional privilege that comes with the expectation whereas in the reverse that would never be the case what what sort of privilege do you think that women would have absent an expectation I'd

Andrew Wilsonlove to know what it is can you give me an example yeah like men have to go and get drafted and go fight off in in Wars women do not what

Audreyis the privilege that men get for having that responsibility what's the privilege that women get for bearing the children getting to stay at home the government doesn't force you to get pregnant first

Andrew Wilsonfirst of all first of all hang on I'll just answer directly yeah that seems like a huge privilege okay well I'll take my privilege and you can go out on the battlefield as a man okay so what I

Andrew Wilsonguess all that Equity was just [ __ ] I didn't say that well then I I thought that's what we wanted was Equity does it sound like we have that tall box so that we have that Equity that you're talking

Audreyabout so we can both see over the same fence look I'm not saying that the draft the draft would be probably one of the more contentious points that you could bring up when it talks when you talk about gender roles I don't want to bring up Reproductive Rights because I know

Audreythat you all would love to destroy me on that one but women die in child birth and also child rearing yeah but it's rare it's r that women die they die after abortions too um okay respectfully I'm not going to get into that whole

Audreything my point is that child rearing is not I would say that the the roles that women take in society are not necessarily as valued as the roles that men

Andrew Wilsontake why should they be what do you mean I just asked you a direct question you said that women's value in society is not as valuable as men why should it be

Andrew Wilsonthat the case that it is in in under the eyes of equity it should be yeah but you just got done saying you don't care about Equity because never said war well then I don't understand if it's if it's

Audreya privilege for you to stay at home but not a privilege for me to fight a war how's that Equity I don't think that it's a innate privilege for me to get to stay at home in that context I could have the privilege of my safety you don't you have the privilege of walking

Andrew Wilsonhome at night and not being afraid that you're going to get hang on hang on how is it not a privilege to have somebody else providing for you while you stay at home because I'm raising kids and so

Andrew Wilsonwhat if you're not raising kids well if I'm not then sure then I should go be a productive member of society okay so so you're going to because because if you're staying at home and your hubby's

Audreytaking care of you and he can be drafted and you cannot be drafted how's that Equity because there's other responsibilities that I would have as a woman

Audreywhat well under under this societal structure if you're saying that that's the expectation I'm not saying that that women should have to go and be childbearers if they don't want to but if you're going to look at the

Andrew Wilsonpatriarchy and you're going to analyze gender roles to try to justify the draft or whatever it is then yeah but how is it not a privilege again back to the question how is it not a privilege for you to be able to stay at home and raise

Andrew Wilsonno children at all and he is still subject to the draft and you are not how are you not privileged and how is that not equ how how is that Equitable in any

Audreyway well women can still go to war they're just not obligated to and yeah so that wouldn't be Equity would so well let let me finish I you're right under

Audreythis argument that would be the case but I just like I don't know I you're right I have a hard time with this one because you are subjecting men and not women but the thing is

Audreythat who created the draft I'm pretty sure that it was men like why were why were they not subjecting women to the draft earlier but why were they not subjecting women to the draft earlier

Brian Atlasthen because women over work because women are ineffective soldiers okay well then then go be let me add another another argument to that

Brian Atlasso on a macro level for example if a society were to send uh large swaths of

Brian Atlasof young fit women able bed women to war let's say it's you know civilization uh women you need women to

Brian Atlasbe able to uh perpetuate the population so uh a man can impregnate a thousand women but only a woman can only

Brian Atlasbe pregnant with one child at any given time so on the macro level uh it does make sense from that component like if the society is like okay we're going to

Brian Atlassend 20 to 30 40 50% of our able-bodied work uh citizenry and that same cohort of people if it was women would be the

Brian Atlasmost fertile too uh at least from a histo historical perspective uh from from that sense it would make more sense to send men because you'd be better able

Audreyto replenish the population of a society and so with that logic then is it innately just a privilege for women to not be subject to that given your logic

Andrew Wilsonthat men would be more effective not not anymore right well well yeah yeah how how would it not be how would it not be that you're privileged just because you cannot uh form a task as

Andrew Wilsoneffective as somebody else therefore you get some bonus that they don't get that's the opposite of equity um I see what you're saying I still don't agree that it's

Andrew Wilsoninnately a privilege because you're kind of going with this logic it's the opposite of equity how could it be anything other than the opposite of equity it to say because you cannot perform the task as well that therefore

Audreythese people do but it's Equitable because of that that makes no sense because in your view society would be upheld in that sense because you're not sending yeah but I'm a patriarch you're

Audreythe feminist in my you're putting us against each other in a way that's really just not productive like I'm trying to understand what you're saying and you're just trying well I'm going to explain it to you so that you understand so it's

Andrew Wilsonfine for you to do an internal critique fine with that uh but I'm doing one as well my worldview is that I I believe in patriarchy I'm a patriarch so I believe

Andrew Wilsonthat men deserve to have additional privileges that women do not deserve to have because of the force applicator Society relies on that men bring to the table you as the feminist believe instead that there should be Equity

Andrew Wilsonbetween both sexes that's fine you can say that you believe that there should be Equity but when I show you a a significant problem where Equity really can't exist you just kind of strug it

Audreyoff and I don't really understand that well so you think that and and I really hate the idea that we're going to pigeonhole women to just being childbearers do I think they contribute a lot more to society you're right what what wait wait

Audreythey can't produce anything more valuable than children well yeah so if you want to talk about the things that are really special to women really special to men you could boil it down to that if you want to simplify it but I think that this idea that women get the

Audreyprivilege of safety the women get the privilege of safety but also there's a variety of tasks that would be required of them if they were to be raising children yeah but the government

Brian Atlasthe government does not compel any given woman to have children you could go you could go through your entire life and just choose to never have children that's actually not true depending on

Andrew Wilsonthe state you live in if you're what states make force you there's a lot of states that have talking about talking she's saying that there states that

Audreyallow you to that's true but no the states did not force you to open your legs I just think that it's funny that the way you're looking at brute force and or what what is it called Force

Audreyapplication and Men sacrificing their lives and their safety to go to war but you're not viewing women's role in the same way you're not looking at it that

Audreymen get the privilege to not be responsible for children and the upkeep of the how they get the privilege of not being responsible if you have a child tomorrow with a man he's going to be responsible because he would be

Andrew Wilsonproviding you have for hang on hang on I'm going to explain so that you understand because I I'll look at it through your worldview tomorrow if you got pregnant in a state where abortion

Andrew Wilsonwas legal does a man have any say at all on whether or not you

Andrew Wilsonabort in California no no he does not so if you have a child that is 100% your children Choice absent him but he is

Andrew Wilsonstill responsible based on your choice for rearing the child or not rearing the child so even if you choose to have the kid he still has to pay child support nobody's letting him off the hook that

Andrew Wilsondoes sound like it's Equity because it's based on your choice in this case this is compelled this is not based on choice so if that is true and you do not have

Audreythat I do not understand how that could be Equitable well I don't think that first of all I would say that California would be more Progressive in that sense in terms of the feminist agenda per se

Audreyif that's how you want to put it and other states that's not necessarily the case women are not allowed to have an abortion freely in the same way that they travel to another state well

Andrew Wilsonwouldn't you say that that's that's not really even then okay hang on hang on even then though right in all of the states where abortion is legal does a man have a say in whether or not a woman can have one or not

Audreythey're the ones that are making the laws typically and they are restricting women's access to abortion no they're not women also make laws and vote on laws I don't know where you get the idea that it's all men who are voting on

Andrew Wilsonthese laws they most certainly are not it's women in the context of the patriarchy though might as well be a man at that point okay so even if it's the patriarchy uh who is giving you abortion rights will'll just grant it for the

Andrew Wilsonsake of argument is there a single state which you can be in where a man can that has abortion which is legalized where a man can tell you no you can't go abort that child a male citizen could not

Andrew Wilsondirectly prevent me from getting an abortion under the guise of the law it's going to be your choice and if it's going to be your choice and the man is still held responsible for child support this type of thing that at least sounds

Audreylike it has even from your worldview Equity but how in the world can you say that there's equity in a draft how could that be equitable I'm not going to repeat myself

Brian Atlascuz clearly my argument to you is not compelling um I'll I can move things on a little bit here um I uh it's just interesting to me it would be so easy to just say yeah equality would be both men

Brian Atlasand women being subject to military conscription but seems like you aren't really prepared to propose that that's why I used the word Equity

Audreyinstead I and I'm and and you don't have to be for that and I'm not and the whole point of equity is that you're not equal in every context that's the whole point and so in the context of force

Andrew Wilsonapplication men and women are not equal you said it yourself do so to each according to their own and from each according to what they can

Audreygive that's not what you said is that what you mean by Equity um in terms of gender roles or

Audreylike in on the basis of individual differences gender rules

Andrew Wilsondo you want do you want to repeat it Andrew one more time so so communism I don't put words in my mouth that's not what I said no that's that's that's literally what that is do each

Andrew Wilsonaccording to what they can give and from each according to what they can give that's communism literally that I think you're over simp Marxist Doctrine I just read I

Andrew Wilsonmean it's not verbatim I'm paraphrasing it but that's that's Marx's Doctrine any tankies at the table I would love to hear from the

Laurenwomen that seem communist I do feel like there's it's really hard to know like we can only be one gender so it's very hard to I just want to read this for btim from each according to his ability to

Andrew Wilsoneach according to his needs that sounds like exactly what you're saying so from each according to his ability in this case men have the ability to be the the applicators of force and so you think equable that they fight your Wars to

Brian Atlaseach according to their needs in this case you need to be protected and so men need to protect you right I didn't I didn't say any of that let let me ask you a question would you uh would I think I think you did but would you

Andrew Wilsonwould you prefer for your agenda I did would you prefer I mean you agree you you literally said yes I asked you the question I mean I paraphrased it that's true I didn't say that I was a communist I never said that you're trying to prove

Andrew WilsonI was a communist to what be an antagonizer like I'm not a no no I'm just okay well let me just ask you from each according to his ability in this case you say under gender that men have

Audreythe ability to do this and so they should right I I don't agree with the idea that you should take all men in America and shlep them off to whatever country all men all men in the US are

Brian Atlassubject to the selective service theft well isn't that a big fat bummer it's interesting that you can be so fli flippant about something as uh serious as this especially you guys have been interrogating me for like 20

Laurenminutes yeah and I also feel like men and women don't know what it's like to be each other so it's like I mean you're you're coming at her so hard like she doesn't she doesn't know what it's like to be a man don't see how I don't see

Laurenhow hold on hold on hold on I don't see I don't see how that's relevant at all well can I explain the way I feel like it's relevant is because you guys never answered like what's patriarchy to you

Brian Atlasbecause I don't okay hold on hold on no no no no no hold on let's stay focused here so okay um just one question when it comes to the economic the preferred economic model that you would like currently we have a capitalist uh system

Brian Atlaswould you prefer a socialist or a communist

Sophiasystem how is that say Rel I don't think any of us could have a at all like I've never experienced anything but capitalism I haven't studied much of them either so I I was

Audreykind of just asking her if you want to just give a quick answer sorry and no it's okay I didn't want to answer um you want me to say whether or

Audreynot I would prefer a different economic model opposed to capitalism yeah besides uh capitalism so either I guess Socialism or communism um I would say that it's not

Brian Atlasrealistic for there to be another economic model on the global stage so you're talking like smaller communes type thing like a small

Audreycommune like a 500 person commune I I I just told you I don't I think I you said you said on the global stage oh so if we were not if the world

Haleyhad not been globalized so like maybe us what do you think us should be should stay capitalism should it change to socialism

Audreycommunism um I mean I think that there's a lot of problems with capitalism sure um there's but there's problems with Communism as well absolutely but do

Brian Atlaswould you prefer that model either Socialism or communism over capitalism as someone who benefits from capitalism no anybody else here would prefer a different

Brian Atlasmodel you can give me yes or no I mean we don't have to linger anybody okay uh just a couple things here so you did mention one thing

Brian Atlasabout uh men don't have to feel scared when they're walking alone at night uh this actually isn't true one this has just proved uh by statistics men are more likely to be

Brian Atlasvictims of violent crime and then in addition to that men are can absolutely feel scared to walk alone so I you brought that up earlier as a sort of a

Brian AtlasCounterpoint of well I feel women feel scared to walk alone at night I mean I'm sure men get jumped more than women

Audreywould like walking alone out in public okay sure I'm I'm honestly sick of arguing about this um to be frank so you can take the floor if you want to

Brian Atlasspeak on that okay well I mean I just wanted to give you a little Counterpoint there CU you did mention that as a rebuttal to I forgot precisely what he said but you me I think it was uh I'm

Brian Atlastrying to think exactly what you were doing it in rebuttal to but um so you just wanted to argue about my point then well you were using that argument and I just want to point out that men can also

Audreyfeel scared walking alone at night I didn't I didn't say that men couldn't you're continuing to in this comparison I didn't say that men just because women

Audreyfeel scared at night doesn't mean that men can't but somehow to you it's offensive for us as women to say that that we you seem like maybe you're offended no I'm not offended but there's this idea that that you think that men

Audreyjust move through the world like very Blas and infallible when actually we have just as the same concerns you not hear the argument that I said about how I think that there's a lot of societal pressures that men face you're acting like I just said that men get it easy

Brian Atlasand that there's no problems I didn't say that but this is a this is a common argument I hear of well us women were scared to walk alone at night which which would indicate to me that you're

Lissadoing a comparison argument that's I wouldn't necessar say that got what you got no it's fine no say it just say it really quick I'm not going to linger on this one for long it's just the fact that we're afraid to go out at night because of men the same way that you're

Lissamentioning that men are scared to walk alone at night also because of men men are scared of the men we're scared of the men we're not scared of all men we're scared of just the dangerous men

Brian Atlasthe possibility that it's dangerous man that's that okay so sure but it's a very small proportion of men who tend to perpetuate these uh violent crimes very

Laurensmall percentage why are you men scared of men then yeah especially if you're in the patriarchy and you're the ones on top like why why are you scared okay a victim is a victim no matter the sex of

Brian Atlasthe perpetrator so we can always point to but oh it's men's fault it's kind of irrelevant if I'm if I get stabbed or shot the perpetrator of the crime because I share genitalia with them It

Brian Atlasultimately I'm no less stabbed or no less shot so it's kind of this sort of derailment of the actual conversation um you know it's just are

Brian Atlasvictims less victimized depending on the perpetrators of the sex I would argue no I just wanted to point out that men um

Brian Atlasalso can fear being alone walking alone at night I don't think that you needed um a stage to say that everyone

Audreyfeels fear I'm not trying to take away from your male experience but here I am talking about my female experience and you're questioning it mhm I'm not questioning your female experience no but you did question that very same

Lissaexperience by using your statement of like oh men get scared at night too and then that's when I said the men and then your point kind of went everywhere you're trying to paint it at as as if

Brian Atlasthis is like a solely or primarily female concern when it as far as we're if we're talking about violent crime men are just as likely if not more uh to be

Brian Atlasvictims of violent crime than women well can there not be concerns on the basis of gender I I suppose but this idea that you seem to have a big theft what do you mean you have this whole argument about

Audreythe draft and you're saying that that would be a concern on the basis of gender and I'm here saying that my safety as a woman at night I was speaking for myself and women and I said that statement and you're here saying

Brian Atlasthat I was essentially trying to make it a a female issue and that for some reason that was somehow well your risk of violent crime at night is not increased by virtue of you being a woman

Brian Atlaswhereas your chance of being drafted is as a man is excl exclusive to the male gender yeah so so there issues that are on the basis of

Audreygender sure but women walking alone at's an issue there's an issue with Equity right I would argue that it is and you can tell me otherwise uh moving on from

Brian Atlasthat you uh a couple people were saying but men who's who are the ones who send people to war who are the ones who initiate drafts I would actually make the argument they've done research on

Brian Atlasthis so uh they actually analyzed the uh compared for example monarchs they compared male monarchs to female monarchs and they actually found that queens were actually more likely to wage

Brian Atlaswar than their their male counterparts so this idea that if we were found ourselves under matriarchy or we found ourselves governed by women that it would the world would somehow be more peaceful or uh they there would not be

Brian Atlaswar is dubious at best given the fact that uh uh female monarchs throughout history waged War more than Kings so I just wanted to bring that up I did want

Brian Atlasto go around the table really quick on this we were talking really quickly about strength I don't suspect there'll be well we'll see uh we were this is related to the whole Warfare thing um

Yaelgenerally speaking are men stronger than women yeah that's scientifically fact on a biological basis yes sure what do you mean sure I'll just agree with the what

Brian Atlasdo you no no no what don't don't just agree just cuz you think it's what I want to hear what do you actually think yeah does anybody feel like that's not

Brian Atlassounds like you just want to argue with her no but I I want people to answer honestly yeah okay all right if that's

Brian Atlasyour honest answer okay physically yeah that's I mean yes physically yes yes yes yeah yes men are superior okay all right

Brian Atlasuh we hit a couple things there I do actually you know still on the war thing who are the primary here we go who who

Brian Atlasare the primary victims of war men or women who are the primary victims of war men or women starting with you if you're talking about like who's fighting then

Brian Atlasobviously men because that's like who fighting right although you could look uh I mean both both men and women can be victims

Yaelof war but I'm asking who's the primary victim of war men or women so you're you're I'm sorry it's late it's getting Lo that's fine what about you are you asking a comparative question to

Brian Atlassay that one has it better than the other no I'm just asking who is the primary victim of war men or

Audreywomen I don't think that it should be on the basis of gender but statistically I think more men die in war okay so they would be the primary victims then I think victim has a

Audreycertain certain um agenda that underlies it but um let's say you're killed are you a victim what's so funny about that well I

Audreymean just don't don't worry about okay um like yes sure uh do men die in War I I I think that this idea that men are

Audreyvictims of war is kind of funny considering that okay it's funny to me because in my opinion the perpetrators of the war end up being whoever the whatever the gender

Audreyis end up everyone else who is subject to that decision ends up being the people that are victims I don't think that it's just one sex well he's not saying that like it's

Haleyjust one sex that's victims we like they can all be victims but who would be more victim if that makes sense can I ask your question so let's look at World War One World War II just within the United

Brian AtlasStates purview of those two conflicts uh for World War I World War II to who were the primary victims of war for those

Brian Atlasconflicts of the you United States population on the basis of who died so men or women I don't know the statistics but I

Brian Atlasthink that more men died okay um I'm just a little okay

Brian Atlasso you said it was funny that we're painting men as victims when it comes to war could you explain that a little

Brian Atlasbetter I don't know if anyone else wants to speak on this I mean when was the last draft Vietnam and how long ago was that well I'll I'll paint it this way

Brian Atlaswhen it comes to the Vietnam War there are men that would still be alive today that aren't because they got drafted and there are men that are alive today that were drafted who have substantial

Brian Atlasinjuries who have who were maimed who lost limbs who have post-traumatic stress disorder who developed probably drug addictions because of you know either what they saw uh who are homeless

Brian Atlasetc etc so yes even today in the United States I can give you a more recent conflict if we look at the Ukraine war for example so every single woman in the country if they wanted to could leave they could uh they could leave the

Brian Atlascountry they could leave Ukraine actually we got a Ukrainian here so all men between the ages of I believe 18 to 16 or 65 I forget the exact number no

Brian Atlasmen could leave the country most men were uh d uh enlisted in the war effort uh drafted into the war effort all women could leave that's an example of a modern conflict where there was a

Yaeldraft uh so yeah I hear you forced military conscription still a thing can I just say one thing I think what she was trying to say is the poor man dies for

Brian Atlasthe rich man's War being that men are still kind of pushing the war and the ones dying so so wouldn't that be more wouldn't that have more to do with it's

Brian Atlasnot that it's a man it's a rich person so that's not about gender that's now about class so so yeah social economic

Audreystatus yeah go ahead I don't want to take away from veterans because I think that I have a lot of respect and I don't

Audreywant to Bel um the sacrifice that they made for their country I will say how many holidays do we have to commemorate the men that went to

Brian Atlaswar you're right we should have more wait I'm what's your I'm just what's your point I'm just saying you're acting like this is some type of sacrifice that's gone unacknowledged the do you

Andrew Wilsonthink do you think all those men who died they're they do you uh do you do you get to take Veterans Day Off

Andrew WilsonI do thanks to the men but and but you're not a veteran right I'm not so it's not just acknowledging veterans then everybody gets to partake yes wait do you think the

Audreycontribution is there a is there a women's History Month Pride mon hold on do you think that is there veterans history month is there no but I it's not it's

Andrew Wilsonnot about quantifying the amount of time that we think about it is it really well I don't that seem to be your argument was that that wasn't my argument hey we're well it did seem to be that but we

Audreyset aside days to remember them my point is that I took it I took it as it sounds like you were saying that the sacrifice that men make for their country goes unacknowledged the

Brian Atlassacrifice that they are obligated to make that's not my ARG okay what were you saying but I I I'm not sure if like the fact that there's a couple of uh holidays uh is um

AudreyI I don't know how that's really relevant to the conversation at hand maybe it's not I took it as you were kind of suggesting that the sacrifice that men make goes unacknowledged or

Audreythat it's undervalued or that the their sacrifice that they make is sure I think that in some ways it is but that it was somehow worse proportionally wor how

Andrew Wilsoncome women how come women's history gets a whole month I don't know I didn't make the rules about who about why do you think that women women's history should get a whole month I think there's a lot of history

Andrew Wilsonthere and the rest of history is man's well it this was is there yeah no wait a second that's weird what do you mean isn't isn't history just

Audreyhistory yes um I think that there's history that is relevant to women I'm I'm I'm not going to here say women's history months should or should not exist or we should just get one day

Andrew Wilsonor if we should get one month I'm not I'm not say is there men's History Month no why would there be why I mean why wouldn't there be if there's a women's History Month it doesn't sound like it's very Equitable I don't I don't think

Andrew Wilsonthat under the guise of equity men need a whole month I don't think the guys of heck what do you the women need a whole month what do you need it for I didn't make women's History Month I don't know why you're asking know but you just said that you would keep it right I don't I

Brian Atlasdon't have really strong opinions on women's History Month no I just was born a woman okay um so I you you had an issue with me

Brian Atlasframing men being involved in Warfare as them being victims of warfare um like you said saying that men are

Brian Atlasvictims of war is a funny fra I don't know I don't want to put words in your mouth you said it was funny or something

TTS/Donationsum originally I did Jeremy donated $200 seriously 22 veterans each day self- delete there are 17 million

TTS/Donationsveterans in the history of the USA and you want to reduce our sacrifice to 2 days per year let's go let's speakable I

Brian Atlaswould argue that the contribution of the veterans is uh goes well beyond just us now having a couple holidays or whatever uh a year thank you Jeremy appreciate your message I'm going to read one more

Brian Atlasmore and then we have a few more chats but I I will get back to it really quick David says back $69 bmga and respect this is a dating show be nice people please I've been to Kiev and dated to Ukraine question is exus or NY bigger

Brian Atlasdeal there best to all grid crack me up uh exus or NY bigger deal in Ukraine um I think overall New Year's is but if you're religious then Christmas for sure

Brian Atlasokay yeah um uh New Year's is Christmas is actually after New Year's in Ukraine okay just going around the table I I don't think I got everybody's answer on this uh who's the primary victim of

Brian Atlaswar men or women everybody children men women everybody oh wait I I'm trying to remember

Brian Atlasif everybody's no but who's the okay who's the primary victim of war men die more cuz they're in the front lines okay soor I was just asking if you had

TTS/Donationsto choose one because initially you said everybody yeah I still think everybody suffers big SAS energy donated $200 as a Marine combat vet who has seen

TTS/Donationsthe all the Death f a holiday I'd much rather the women of this country submitt and both genders can commit to their biological gender roles it's inevitable all right big sass energy there you go

Brian Atlasoh she agrees with you there you go there you go big sass thank you man appreciate the uh message there wait so you said everybody I think collectively everyone will suffer I think men will

Sophiadefinitely die more and will be more traumatized when they go and if they are able to come back okay who's the primary

Brian Atlasvictim of war men or women men men men men men okay all right uh let's

Brian Atlassee we have a few final up no not yet H well guys go to twitch.tv whatever drop a follow drops a prime sub if you have one twitch.tv/

Brian AtlasWhatever drop us a follow and a prime sub if you have one couple other question here uh moving on from the war

Brian Atlasstuff uh can you be sexist towards men what do you mean like as a woman like me no not you specifically but like

Enacan women be sexist towards men sure yeah yes yeah yeah yes absolutely yeah

Brian Atlasoh sorry yes I won't I won't Grill you if any of you change your answer are any of you just saying yes because you don't want to argue I will not Grill

Brian Atlasyou I promise I won't Grill you I will move right along but you anybody you you okay all right just you know just want to check just want to check how about this

Yaelone because it's kind of related sort of a little bit can you be racist towards white people oh sorry I keep forgetting I

Yaelstart um sorry uh yeah maybe yeah um respectfully how does this have anything to do with dating and

Brian Atlasno doesn't actually have anything to do with dating I just wanted I just felt like asking the question ah I'm a goblin okay uh do you want to answer the

Brian Atlasquestion do you want to answer the question um no you can't be racist towards white people well hold on let's get everybody's answers first before before you okay so no what about you I'm not going to talk about this should

Brian Atlasshould I just assume that your answer is no just go you can come on just answer the question I don't I'd say yeah it's

Brian Atlasyes okay no no I think you can be racist towards anybody okay yes yeah absolutely okay really quick promise we won't

Brian Atlaslinger so long on this why for those of you who said

Lissano does anyone else want to answer how about you answer I'm pleading I just feel like you can't really be racist towards a race that has had all the privilege in the world the their like

Lissaentire lives and it's like maybe you can be racist on a onetoone level like oh you hurt their feelings but you can't be

Haleyracist in the sense of like systematic oppression that's that well being racist is just judging someone based off of their race not no it's not just that

Lissagirl it's systematic question as well um I thought the definition of racism was judging someone based off of their race no it's not just that like I said well what's yourin what's your definition of

Lissaracism my definition of racism is like I said systematic oppression oppression by like a whole institution a group of people something that's like actually a

Lissaforce not just so to me and you called me white you called me a cracker you don't you don't think that that would be a racist thing to say I think that you were just trying to be I feel like at

Lissathat point you made like a dumb joke that could be interpreted as racist yeah but I don't see it as racism so you're saying on the are you saying on the micro level yeah on the micro level you

Brian Atlascan try to be rist there is no macro level racism towards white people and so I've heard this definition used is racism Prejudice plus power that's the

Brian Atlasyeah definition that I've heard what about you your thoughts on that on uh or why sorry why yes um I you said you weren't going to linger and you said you weren't going to grill us on this well a

Brian Atlascouple minutes is fair just a couple minutes it's been um what's the time stamp on this don't don't okay just go ahead answer the question I I told you my answer no I mean like but why why do

AudreyI think that you you can't be racist against a white person mhm because I I would go along with with the logic that

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