RAGE QUITS?! Andrew Wilson vs. Liberal Feminists! 2+24? TOO Picky?! | Dating Talk #161

Date: 2024-05-15

Duration: 7h 18m

Guests

Brian Atlas

AAndrew Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_03Sophia(guest)

SPEAKER_04Paige(guest)

SPEAKER_05Yael(guest)

SPEAKER_06Lissa(guest)

SPEAKER_07Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_08Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_10Lauren(guest)

SPEAKER_11Ena(guest)

SPEAKER_13Haley(guest)

SPEAKER_14Audrey(guest)

Key Moments

QuoteAudrey chooses bear: "I would say a bear because I know that at least like the worst thing he could do is kill me, a man could do a variety of things"

QuoteAndrew calculates that if 30-40% of men would attack women, that equals 33-55 million American men who would assault women in the woods

QuoteAndrew's bear logic test: "walk over to random men you don't know, reach over and pat them on the head and walk away; do the same with wild bears — which one attacks you quicker"

ControversySophia says she would rather be killed in a home invasion than have her husband use a gun to defend them because she is terrified of firearms

QuoteLissa rates herself a 10 out of 10; says she is "showstopping"

QuoteAndrew Wilson rates himself a 4 out of 10 on looks

ControversyLauren directly challenges Andrew Wilson on his treatment of born-again women: "it sort of seems like you are extra harsh on them... it doesn't seem like it's coming from love"

ControversyYael accuses Andrew of hypocrisy: "do you know what's also wrong — smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol... your body is a temple"

ControversyAudrey expresses collective frustration near end of show: "we feel a little bit irritated and a little bit disrespected... we came here thinking we were going to speak about our experience and all we did was essentially get argued against"

QuoteFinal body count round: Audrey states body count of 2; most others decline to answer

Topics Discussed

Introductions and relationship statuses

Brian introduces the panel; each guest states name, age, location, occupation, and relationship status. Includes extended discussion of Yael's complicated situationship with ex-boyfriend at Cal Poly.

Friends with exes

Panel discusses whether remaining friends with an ex is a good look in a new relationship.

Man vs bear viral debate

Extended multi-round discussion of the viral "man or bear in the woods" question. Panel divided; most chose bear. Andrew Wilson and Brian present statistical and logical rebuttals. Covers per capita attack rates, anthropomorphizing animals, bear vs man safety.

Bumble swiping segment

Each guest given 20 Bumble profiles to swipe yes/no on. Most guests were very selective (few or no yes swipes). Discussion of why they said no to most profiles.

Gun ownership and home invasion

Panel asked about comfort with partners owning firearms and home invasion scenario. Several guests expressed fear of guns; Sophia said she would rather be killed than have husband use a gun. Haley stated a man must own a firearm to date her.

Self-ratings (looks 1-10)

Brian asks each guest to rate their looks 1-10. Ratings ranged from 4 (Andrew) to 10 (Lissa). Extended debate about what a 10 means and whether self-rating reflects comparative standards.

Attractiveness over time and fertility

Brian asks if guests will be more attractive in 10 years. Andrew follows up asking about fertility decline. Debate about whether women peak in 20s and delusional self-assessments.

Taking a bullet / gender roles in protection

Panel asked if men should take a bullet for their girlfriend. Extended discussion of car-or-Grim-Reaper sacrifice scenarios. Debate about whether expecting men to defend honor while rejecting bullet-taking is inconsistent.

Andrew Wilson vs born-again women / women in clergy

Lauren challenges Andrew on his treatment of born-again women on the show. Andrew explains he objects to false theology not personal reform. Extended theological debate about whether women can be Christian clergy; Andrew cites 1 Timothy.

Feminism, oppression, and men vs women

Broad debate on feminism, whether patriarchy exists, gender oppression comparisons, male vs female emotional decision-making, and whether women should vote.

Military conscription and draft equity

Brian and Andrew argue that male-only selective service is a counter-example to feminist equity arguments. Audrey struggles to propose an equitable solution. Discussion of whether women being exempt from draft is a privilege.

Racism toward white people / white privilege

Panel asked if you can be racist toward white people. Lissa says no (prejudice+power definition). Andrew challenges with bigotry framing. Brief white privilege discussion.

Closing chaos roast section

TTS donation roast messages read aloud. Body count round at end. Audrey states body count of 2. Others decline. Brian wraps up and does Twitch raid.

Transcript

Page 4 of 8

Haleyprobably a five I think I'm like a six I could be a seven if I lost some weight lose the braces okay I give myself five Andrew

Brian Atlaswhat about you uh four four all right there you have it so we do have 11 10 at the

Lissatable 10 out of 10 not the only 10 though I will say I'm not the only 10 though I will say that what do you mean you think the like I definitely see

Lissaother tens at the table which ones um well honestly everyone but like if I'm going to say some tens that like really like pop like

HaleyYouTube gorgeous thank you yeah okay 10 is like perfect yeah like I drop like like no no

Lissaflaws like whatsoever well not necessarily no flaws but like like your showstopping that's what I think a ton is like everybody has flaws no matter what you yeah you're well and saying

Lissanobody everyone has some sort of flaws wouldn't that be that no one is a 10 cuz no one's perfect exactly but we're going off a 1 to 10 skill just hypothetically where people are 10 you

Lissaknow how long have you been single 1.5 years is it like by choice or just like what's what's going on there um yeah I was actually like really contemplating

Lissagetting in a relationship with that um other person that I was seeing um but ultimately I just decided that I'm just not in the right place to be getting in a relationship like I'm about to graduate about to move down to

LissaSan Diego is is there anything about you that you would change physically physically yeah like what um I hate my wrists my wrists are so little you change your wrists yeah I want

Brian Atlasthicker wrist guys well how T are you I'm 5'4 oh you're 5'4 okay but would you say you're like more on the petite side yeah I am well isn't that just proportional to your general size I mean

Brian Atlasslightly but I just would I want thicker wrist I don't know why do you want bigger wrists I don't know I feel like everyone else at the table has like good wrists is that like the first thing you

Lissalook at somebody like you tiny wrist yeah you're good your wrists are [ __ ] terrible no like it's literally so hard to find

Brian Atlasbracelets what the [ __ ] okay so but you just be like eyeballing people's wrists like what about mine yeah good wrist good wrist I got small wrists I'm in the same boat oh

Brian Atlasreally you're also insecure about your wrist oh yeah I got gamer hands I need it's weird cuz my dad he's he's got like big strong meaty Man Hands and I got these like dainty piano finger oh my God

Brian Atlashands it kind of sucks no but woman actually usually like little dainty hands I've heard I like masculine I've actually I've had no complaints I've I've had no complaints but just not even

Brian Atlasfrom like a dating perspective I would just in general prefer to have big strong manh hands bro you guys see me you guys probably haven't seen this but I struggle to open champagne bottles there I said it it was a struggle last

Brian Atlasno actually I'm two out of three right Nick in recent history yeah I was able to we do a champagne pop set why she's squirming I I struggled to open one of the

Brian Atlaschampagne bottles Gerald Dan Dane I don't know if you're still watching he popped two and I struggled on one of them so anyways uh

Brian Atlasokay so you would change your wrists okay

Brian Atlasum so you're at 10 yeah okay

Audreydoes anyone does anybody have to disagree or why the hesitation I think the fact that she thinks she's a 10 would make her one like she's confident and she likes the way that she is

Andrew Wilsonthere's nothing she hates her wrists well that brings you down to a nine at least like if it makes her a 10 just because she thinks she's a 10 then does it make me an attack helicopter because

AudreyI think I'm going an attack helicopter oh my God what well I'm just saying that it doesn't really like people can tell her what they think she is but if she's

Audreythinking that she's a 10 like and she still has insecurities people who it depends on if you quantify 10 out of 10 as Flawless people who are really pretty

Audreycan still or really attractive can still have flaws you can have flaws so why did you rate yourself a seven because I don't think that I'm perfect okay so then you would consider the 10 rating to be Perfection for

Andrew Wilsonmyself you don't well I mean but who are you comparing your self rating to that's not something you would come up with arbitrarily right you would have to basically observe the world around you

Andrew Wilsonand then you would be comparing yourself to other human beings right yeah so if that's true then if your self- rating is a seven then you're saying when I compare myself objectively to other women clearly there's women who

Andrew WilsonI think are much prettier than I am who I would put in that 8 n or 10 scale right is she one of them I think that she's beautiful yeah I know but that's not what I asked you

Andrew Wilsonthough are you asking me to rate my female peers no I mean but that's how you get your self rating is because you're looking at your female peers and you're saying that some of them are

Andrew Wilsonprettier than you right yeah I I was thinking more like the standard like my perceived standard of like female Beauty yeah right your perceived standard of

Andrew Wilsonfemale Beauty puts you at a seven so would you say that the woman who puts herself at a 10 has a higher or lower standard than that because clearly you

Andrew Wilsoncan compare yourself to other women so that you can come up with the standard right I don't really know what you're saying I just think the whole point is like that everybody everybody can come up with their own standard I'm saying

Andrew Wilsonhow do you know if you're a seven absent you comparing your your s to other women you wouldn't know that right sure like if if I had never seen a woman before and you asked me to rate how beautiful I

Audreythought I was it I don't know cuz I yeah there's no way for you to compare things the whole point of a rating scale is that it's supposed to be comparative sure right yeah exactly so if you're comparing yourself to the woman who

Audreyconsiders herself a 10 right are you saying that she's a 10 or not um I I just think that there's I

Andrew Wilsondon't I don't see the point in questioning her rating of herself yeah I know I know I I know I'm not I'm not asking you if she should question her rating of herself I'm saying that if

Andrew Wilsonyou're objective and clearly you're looking at this is an objective metric then do you agree with that self assessment or disagree with that self assessment that's what I'm

Audreyasking um I'm not really sure okay I got a question will you do you think you'll be

Brian Atlasbetter looking in 10 years as compared to how you look now so you're 21 will you be better looking at 31 or how you look now at 21 yeah at 31 I

Brian Atlaswould assume I'd be better looking you you'll be better looking well how can you possibly be a 10 now if you'll be better looking in 10 years well that's like missusa for example like you ask like I'm not

Lissacomparing my software at all not saying my beaut is that to that point right but that's like saying oh she was beautiful at 21 at 31 she can't be just as beautiful well she can or would you

Lissadisagree that a model couldn't do that I'm not comparing myself to such model let me change the question all else being equal do you think you'll be more physically attractive in 10

Lissayears yes just because there's certain things that I do want to alter about myself that I think that would make me a little bit more attractive okay such as um for example um I want to be like a

Lissalot more toned like I want like really toned abs okay back all that so I feel like that would make me more attractive but that doesn't from what I see myself as

Brian Atlasassuming you had that today and then assuming you had that in 10 years would you be more attractive today or in 10 years I would say today just because

Brian Atlasyour skin will probably deteriorate a little bit like your elasticity and all that okay so you think by virtue of you working

Brian Atlasout uh over the course of the next 10 years you will be more attractive than than you are now given the fact that you currently aren't as

Lissatoned as you you would like currently yeah cuz I would also like after I'm done with college I'm drinking less smoking less you know your skin looks better body looks better you look healthier so you plan to stop drinking

Lissaand smoking and I don't know if there's drug use no no drug use but not necessarily stopping drinking I just don't want to be involved with that whole like drinking life

Lissastyle okay what about 20 years time 20 years time I'd view myself as less attractive compared to 21 but I would hope to view myself as more beautiful

Brian Atlasthough like i' find myself more Beauty like I'd find more beauty within myself is what I'm trying to say okay I'll actually open up to the whole panel uh do you think you'll be more physically attractive in 10 years all else all else being equal will you be more attractive

Yaelin 10 years as compared to how you are now starting with you uh I'll be 29 uh maybe yeah you'll be more physically

Brian Atlasattractive in 10 years all else being equal this this isn't like okay well not saying for you but like let's say a woman was obese at 19 and then she's making the comparison well if I'm a

Brian Atlasfitness model at 29 then yes I would be more attractive at 29 it's assuming you know you're doing sort of all the things uh you were if you possessed all the

Brian Atlastraits you know so you in reasonable uh physical shape you know uh yeah reasonable physical shape um you know how to some people will argue well in 10 years time I'll know how to do my

Brian Atlasmakeup better in 10 years time I'll know how to dress better those sorts of things so assuming you knew all of those things to now or your skills in makeup

Brian Atlasor dress stayed the same right um still 10 years later yeah I think so what about you so 32 versus 22 I think that

Audreylike you're your hottest in your 20s so like on a physical basis so I would say physically um I would be less attractive in 10 years but like you said I think

Audreythere's more time for you to work on yourself physically or mentally and so in that sense maybe like my value as a whole person would go up but in terms

Sophiaof like my physical value physical looks my physical looks um maybe it would go down a little bit I'll probably I think I'll go with like looking better in 10 years I think

Sophiathere's always like room of improvement either way and how I think of myself so maybe in 10 years I would like you'd look better maybe look better but just like not even care just feel better no matter how I look like my mindset will

Laurenchange and that probably will make me think that I look better than I do now okay yeah I don't think I'll be more physically attractive in 10 years but I

Brian Atlasdo think I'll be more wise more able to take on challenges not really the question but okay um you're my answer is no so you're currently 32 would you say that you're

Brian Atlasbetter looking now at 32 than you were at 22 no so better looking at 22 Yeah okay uh oh you answer the

Yaelquestion um in 10 years physically you will be less attractive and I know this cuz at 21 I probably would have given myself like an eight or a nine you know being like 125 lbs all that stuff and

Paigethen now at 31 almost um definitely less attractive all right so and then at 40 I think your answer at 41 yeah I'd probably I mean wait are you I

Paigethink did you say you were 30 years old I'm 30 but my birthday is on Sunday so oh you're about to turn okay I see I see um but kind of like they were saying you have more time to gain wisdom and I don't mean it like just like you know

Yaelthe thing sleeping around is what people say that's not really what it's about it's just like getting wisdom and more time to have more experiences and be smarter so in that way you do add value as a woman but looks wise your looks

Brian Atlasdecrease with age okay what about you less attractive all right what about you I think I'll be equally attractive I think I'm going to Peak mid 20s well so you're 20 so are you saying you'll be more attractive at

Brian Atlas30 than you are now at 20 no I think I'll be like equally equally okay what about at 40 um less attractive less attractive okay you'll be equally attractive all right interesting questions Andrew Andrew any quick

Andrew Wilsonthoughts yeah if you don't mind if I follow up um do you think that you'll be more or less fertile in 10 years she likes that

Yaelone starting with you more more or less starting with you go ahead uh it's a good question Andrew is is that not like statistically like as you're younger you're more yeah right so we're just

Sophiaasking you if you think that you'll be more or less fertile in 10 years at 29 probably less okay I'll be less fertile um okay yeah

Sophiaprobably less if I maybe take care take better care of myself who knows like I don't know be cool less less less less less now understanding that you'll be

Andrew Wilsonless fertile from an evolutionary standpoint why do you think that it is that men are attracted to younger women if you had to guess because they're more fertile and so it

Andrew Wilsonwould be evolutionary advantageous for them because they're they're more fertile so it would be evolutionarily advantageous did would you all agree that that's

Andrew Wilsontrue yeah yeah yeah so then if that is true and that men are attracted to younger women because it would be evolutionarily advantageous to them

Andrew Wilsonbecause those women are more fertile and so therefore you know you could Pro you could basically have more children which is kind of the ultimate goal from evolutionary standpoint is to uh have

Andrew Wilsonmore children now knowing this and knowing that your logic walked you to that are you going to be more or less attractive in 10 years I think it was only one or two

Brian Atlasgirls who said more who said more attractive in 10 years I forgot there was three or three I it was you I said oh you said more attractive more attractive more attractive so now

Yaelknowing that do you still think that you'll be more attractive in years I was just meaning it from like my personal I wasn't really thinking about it from like from how someone else would

Andrew Wilsonperceive me so if you so well that's strange how do you come up with your assessment of how attractive you are if it's not Through The Eyes of other people I think I was mainly saying I

Andrew Wilsonwasn't thinking about it Through The Eyes of men to to I was just thinking you think about how attractive you are Through The Eyes of women but why do you think that women try to make themselves

Yaellook younger I'm sorry I'm confused how this relates particularly I just meant that well because if the because again the the point is to point out what could be

Andrew Wilsonpotentially delusion right so to answer your question there are plenty of women out there who think that they're going to be much better looking in 10 years than they are in whatever their current

Andrew Wilsonstatus is let's say 20 uh as just kind of like a general run-of-the middle age but yet understand that their fertility is going to greatly reduce in that 10 years and that men would be attracted

Andrew Wilsonfrom an evolutionary standpoint which is your guys's worldview the feminist worldview anyway um I don't understand how you reconcile that because you're basically saying that hey I'm going to

Yaelbe less fertile therefore aren't men going to be less attracted to you isn't that the point uh well I'm 19 so I think I when I look at like other women that I find

Yaelreally beautiful most of them tend to be in their like mid 20s so if I'm mid to late 20s so if I'm thinking 10 years you're 29 you're going to be less

Andrew Wilsonfertile than you are at 20 right I'm 19 yeah yeah right so then so then wouldn't it stand a reason that if fertility is

Andrew Wilsonthe thing that's being selected for which it it stands to reason it would be that you would be less attractive to the opposite sex the more the more time that goes by as far as fertility right sure

Andrew Wilsonyeah so do you think that maybe your self assessments for those of you who think that you're going to be more attractive in 10 years might be slightly delusional or is this perhaps the reason that women do themselves up in such a

Yaelway to try to look as young as possible to attract a mate as I was saying I I just picked that like that I would be more attractive because that's what like when

YaelI see attractive women that tends to be the age they are is like 25 to like 30 is like really attractive but that's just me so that's what I

Brian Atlasall right okay uh one we're going to segue briefly and I hope briefly because I said that about the be thing we talked about it for an hour and a half all

Brian Atlasright so the Bullet scenario because it's related to the be scenario now the best way of framing this question goes something like this

Brian Atlasshould men be willing to sacrifice their life for their girlfriend or wife or in other words should men as a gender role as a gender expectation be willing to

Brian Atlastake a bullet for their girlfriend or wife starting with you

Audreyno I would say probably not but like I don't I don't don't necessarily view that as a gender role necessarily like I would take a bullet for my boyfriend too

Sophiaand men being expected to be the protector s is a different story I would expect the same like equally like I know I probably would if I truly love this person is like equally

Brian Atlaslike I don't think it's a gender Ral thing wait let me just pause really quick maybe Andrew you can help me out a little bit with this I know there's there has to be a better way for me to frame this question to kind of get at

Andrew Wilsonwhat I'm getting at yeah I I would I would just ask it this way um just really quickly just yes or no around the table do you feel that you are honorable real quick very quickly around

Laurenthe table do you feel that you're an honorable person yes yes next next I think so yes yeah yeah next through God yes yes

Andrew Wilsonnext not really not really honorable okay so to those of you who answered yes you feel you're honorable people do you expect the man you're with to defend your honor

Andrew Wilsonoh um no I guess no I if you're scen you're with your boyfriend and somebody insulted you in

Andrew Wilsonfront of your boyfriend and insulted your honor you have no expectation that he defend it well sure why not okay well then you do you do expect your

Andrew Wilsonsignificant other to defend your honor by a bullet though well but hang on we'll get to that entailment in a second okay but let's just start with you do

Audreyexpect him to defend your honor right sure okay next I don't think I've ever thought about defending my honor once in my life

Brian Atlasbut um I would say like sure wait can I can I ask a qu Andrew let me know if this fits within your scenario let's say

Brian Atlasyou're out walking a party Street here think think here locally or like in a bar District you're walking with your

Brian Atlasboyfriend and a guy slaps your ass would you want your boyfriend to physically intervene like fight the guy that did it yeah is that a fair question yeah but I

Andrew Wilsonmean it's it the entailment is going to be the same both ways but sure um is that random guy he's said he's he's basically essayed you right do

Audreyyou want him to just kind of stand by or do you want him to do something about it oh like what I expect my my boyfriend to defend me if if a man were to have

Andrew Wilsonlike sexually harassed me yeah um I would say probably yeah so then I don't so then that's the entailment part right that I don't

Andrew Wilsonunderstand if somebody assaults you or does something to you you expect that you know your boyfriend or husband or whatever will put him in his place but somehow when when it's a

Andrew Wilsonlife-threatening situation which every physical altercation could potentially be the answer is no and so to me it always seems like uh women are speaking out of both sides of their mouth on this and trying to give the answer they think

Andrew Wilsonthat they want you to to they're giving the answer that they they think you want rather than the answer they really believe should we get answers from the

Sophiarest of the girls on on this sure um from my partner I would probably expect for my partner yes

Laurenokay I think that people would defend each other regardless of gender females too yeah great if you were married and a guy went by and smacked you on the rear

Andrew Wilsonend would you expect that your husband did something about that I would be happy if he did okay yeah I would

Andrew Wilsontoo um yeah I would want him to defend me yes yes I would yeah so then the thing is is that you are most certainly

Andrew Wilsonall willing to put a Man In Harm's Way to defend you but it doesn't have to be a man it be a woman I don't so so when so when this idea comes up of but if it's life-threatening now I don't expect

Lissahim to it's really hard to believe you know I mean from this specific example I can speak I feel like the thing is like with the slapping ass thing it's like I

Lissawould expect him to not because I'm like wanting to put him In Harm's Way but it's be like if that situation would have happened with me by myself I would have been the one to like do something about it so it's like if you're my

Lissaboyfriend if you're my man I mean what would you be able to do about it I don't know I'd check him in one way or another no not calling the cops but like you know I'm not just going to like let it happen and I've had girlfriends tell

Andrew Wilsonguys off if guys are doing things man that taught him a lesson so the thing is it was like you're you're willing to put a Man In Harm's Way every single time a man fights on your behalf the potential

Enaexists for him to die just so you understand that if I was with a my boyfriend or husband and a girl grabbed

Andrew Wilsonhim downstairs I would defend him yeah it's very well okay both yeah yeah I get it but would he need you to

Andrew Wilsonmaybe do does he does he need you to step in on his honor or could he actually do something about that himself and the odds of him actually getting damaged in an altercation with a woman

Andrew Wilsonwho grabs him by the junk significantly less than the chance of you getting damage and altercation with a man who might do something which is sexually inappropriate to you right so the thing is is that you do seem all of you to be

Andrew Wilsonwilling to put your Man In Harm's Way to defend your honor because that's all that's being violated there right it's really just your honor is being violated and he want them to defend your honor

TTS/Donationsright GR Zulu donated $200 scenario a car is coming at 120 mph your man has only enough time to either

TTS/Donationsjump out of the way and let you get hit or push you out of the way and he gets hit good which do you prefer which do you prefer car is coming 120 m per hour your

Brian Atlasman has only enough time to either jump out of the way and you let let you get hit or push you out of the way and he gets hit which do you prefer oh sorry yeah uh I'll get hit that's

Andrew Wilsonfine all right wait just be clear unless the car unless the car Pats you on the rear end on the way across and then then he has needs to get he needs to get in there

Audreybeat the [ __ ] out of that car right what wait i'me okay wait this so this is if there's a car coming at the

Brian Atlastwo of us and it's either so I think it's it's all it's in line to hit you maybe he's standing off to the side he's got a split second he can like I think he jumps out he can push you out of the

Brian Atlasway but he gets hit or he does he takes no action he takes no action and you get hit [Music] um I think in the scenario where I got

Audreyhit let's say I let that happen I don't think I would be mad and say oh you should have sacrificed yourself for me

Audreyokay so um sure not that I want to get hit by a car right and or like that he somehow has the means to protect me in that situation because he doesn't really

Audreyhe could kill himself for me but then I would just have Survivor skill and be like why did you do that you know yeah but the same exact logic could be applied for him defending as your honor

Andrew Wilsonif somebody think about termon have that same expectation if some guy comes by and smacks you on the rear end that he do something about that he could

Audreydefinitely die in that situation I mean but want to do but statistically he would be less likely to die he's guaranteed to die if he gets hit by what is the threshold for when it's okay to to like is it appropriate

Andrew Wilsonto have 5% actually interesting that you there's also a statistical there's also it's also possible that he lives getting hit by the car it's not even it's not even a sure thing he dies getting hit by the

Audreycar right at 120 M an hour like he probably will die compared to maybe he gets in a scuffle with a guy and sure maybe the guy's a knife and he slits his throat I mean more people die from hands

Andrew Wilsonand feet in the United States than they die from Firearms hands and feet and physical Al altercation I'm sorry from rifles right from dangerous feet a lot of dangerous feet hands and hands and feet from just rifles I'm not I'm not

Andrew Wilsonkidding you can look this up just hands and feet alone do more damage to people than rifles more people die from just that than rifles per year men in a physical altercation with another man yeah they can die and they die they do

Andrew Wilsondie fighting with other men with their fists men are very strong much stronger than women uh often give him credit for uh a well-placed blow and yeah he's he's dead and you'd want him to do that to

Audreydefend your honor right um I don't I don't know I think that these scenarios are too specific and when you make this scenario more specific people are more likely to

Audreyanswer illogically and so in this situation um I well I don't have a boyfriend so I can't imagine anyone pushing me out of the way to defend my honor or whatever

Brian Atlasbut I would say I I wouldn't ask someone to do that for me necessarily Andrew if you mind I'll just jump in really quick I have a I have a few things I do want to First go around the table on this if you all give your answer to the uh the

Sophiacar scenario um I'll I'll just die I wouldn't expect that you wouldn't expect that what about you

Brian AtlasI wouldn't expect it which do you okay you might not expect it which would you prefer I'm not sure um in that case I prefer that he doesn't sacrifice

Enahimself yeah I'm not really sure either on this one okay I can ask a different one but go ahead I would prefer him to jump in front of the car with me cuz he loves me so much so you both okay all

Haleyright what about you jul I I would say the same thing as her but I think a a man of God okay would double suicide

Brian Atlaswould push no would push me out of the way okay here's let me try to reframe it a little differently I don't know if it's going to change the answer is if the Grim Reaper comes and says should I

Laurentake your life or your husband's who do you choose my life probably mine mine it depends who's

Brian Atlascloser to being saved or who's going to help people wait what okay that's what I pick what you're closer to being saved by Jesus

Andrew Wilsonmhm does that not make sense you've both been saved you both been saved both of you both of you been saved and you're in

Andrew Wilsonholy matrimony from the church the Holy Spirit was present you were both when you tied the knot right it happened you've both been saved wait Andrew can I

Brian Atlasask you a clarifying question is it saved by like a heresy church or like does that change anything from my worldview he yes but who cares doesn't

Lissamatter for the question what should you pick I don't know

Yaelokay um if we don't have kids I can die if we have kids he has to die interest interesting okay I mean obviously I'd want my own life but I'd want him to choose his own life too so it's it's

Brian Atlashard to say all right sticking with what I said before take both of us okay I know how to reframe this again go ahead um I would

Brian Atlassay to take probably take my life okay so let let us remove ourselves from the actual scenario and I'm going to give you

Brian Atlasanother scenario would you prefer to date a man who was willing to sacrifice his life for you versus dating a guy who was unwilling in all scenarios to ever

Brian Atlassacrifice his life for you would you think for example that one is less

Brian Atlasmasculine was that the end of the question well would you think I kind of a bit of a is he done yet okay you could you could think like okay one which would you prefer to date

Brian Atlasand then also I mean you might have some analysis there of the actual person in question for example if he was unwilling to uh sacrifice his life for you to to make the ultimate uh protection move the ultimate sacrifice of Dying For You

Brian AtlasWould You deem that as like less masculine maybe he's a beta male that sort of thing um I would say that I'd be like more willing to date someone who is

Yaelwilling to sacrifi sorry sacrifice themselves but mainly because if I'm dating someone it's probably because I love them and I would do the same for them so I think it's more of like

Brian Atlasequality on that so what about you would you deem it less attractive or less masculine if a guy was unwilling to do that for you I think that it's funny that you

Audreyhave to reframe the question this many times because I think that we've all been pretty consistent in our position um I would say that it depends on his motive for why he would be willing to

Audreysacrifice himself if it's for the purpose of Defending my honor I can I don't really want anyone to defend my honor but um just the Grim the Grim

Brian AtlasReaper scenario oh okay sure you guys can decide together I guess on who like we look at each other like who's going yeah and he's like me I will die for

Brian Atlasus um there's go I feel like there's better framing on this question but yeah I don't know I don't know I don't know um this all really stems from a a previous show we were having a conversation well actually before I get into that just going around the table if

Andrew Wilsonyou can give quick answers to this ref I mean I don't I don't get it though there was no need to there is no need to reframe you flip-flo multiple times if you're willing to put your Man In Harm's Way just to defend you because you feel

Andrew Wilsonlike you were slighted by another man then clearly your priority is you and not him when it comes to a situation like this how could it be anything

Andrew Wilsondifferent than that some guy came by and open Palm smacks you on the rear and you demand you're demanding or think that he should step in and defend your honor you're definitely putting him In Harm's

Andrew WilsonWay at his expense and not at your expense so I I I don't understand why when we logically extend that out why that wouldn't be the

Yaelcase because if I swung at a man I'm probably not going to win so let's if they did that and I go in for a swing I

Andrew Wilsonprobably wouldn't win that situation so yeah right so he should put himself In Harm's Way he doesn't have this would be the this would but this would be the same thing too even in the bullet

Andrew Wilsonscenario which one would would you prefer take a bullet a man has a much larger body mask and mass and can probably survive being shot better than a woman could too so I mean all if that's if that's the extension then you

Yaelwould have to extend it out to everything right what is this spron we living in the like we dueling out here I'm kidding no but I'm just

Brian Atlassay like I don't know I can't here let's get the girls answers I guess on the was it the Grim the Grim no no we already did that would you would you deem a man like less

Yaeldate worthy or less attractive if he was unwilling to uh to die for you no no no well your question was different you asked like would you rather date the guy

Yaelwho would or wouldn't I would date the guy who rather would okay uh it's it's fine I wouldn't say it's less masculine

Brian Atlasbut I wouldn't date them okay I see well I guess kind of what we're getting towards with this is that uh hold on let me just add this really quick to my notes is uh there does seem to be some

Brian Atlasdegree of a gender expectation on men to protect and the ultimate manifestation of protection would be in some sort of scenario to sacrifice one's life for their partner and this typically man

Brian Atlaswill uh typically be the man sacrificing his life for the woman there are perhaps not so much at this table but there are plenty of women perhaps they lean a bit more conservative who would prefer have a

Brian Atlasstrong preference to date a man who would be willing to protect her at the cost of his life and so and this all stemms from I don't know exactly how it

Brian Atlascame about but a couple shows back I said yeah I wouldn't be willing to uh to die for a woman and they all objected to that and they F they'd say they they it

Brian Atlaswas you're less masculine you're not as date worthy blah blah blah and um I gave quite a bit of push back I would not be willing to uh sacrifice my life for a

Brian Atlaswoman and um or the woman I was dating rather uh even my wife and even even if we had children I know a couple of you seem to indicate that well if you had children you'd prefer uh the man died

Brian Atlasversus the woman but I would just make the argument to that I think it was you I would just make the argument to that one that well it seems like the outcomes for uh children raised by single fathers versus single mothers does seem to be a bit

Brian Atlasbetter comparative comparatively speaking statistically speaking and also I would argue that assuming the man is the bread winner in this situation and the woman isn't uh the man would be

Brian Atlasbetter uh have more capacity and be more capable of that was just kind of redundant but okay would be more capable of providing and protecting for the children so in any scenario whether

Brian Atlasyou're single don't have kids or even if you do have kids I think it' be better for the man to survive Andrew does disagree with me on that one he has more uh traditional worldview than I do um I

Brian Atlaswill say Andrew I want to give a chess I want to talk about Chess really quick dear Andrew in chess you lose if you sacrifice the king to Save the Queen Checkmate

Andrew WilsonAndrew well you can't um the thing that's funny is in chess you can't actually take the king off the board you can only ever take the Queen off the board just just letting you know right

Andrew Wilsonthere's you can only ever checkmate the king you can't you can't actually take him off the board this is true it's true but that's that's what I'm saying you can't sacrifice the king who who's arguably on

Brian Atlasthe chessboard the most important piece Brian which piece is the most important one Andrew don't do this to me which one's the most important one Brian which which one which one's the most powerful the Queen the yeah the queen queen the

Brian Atlasmost important damn it Andrew why you got to do this to me why you got do this to me uh well what but you know I will say for example in this scenario you know the scenario there's there's a there's a

Brian Atlasmove it's called a queen sack Queen sacrifice so you'll sacrifice uh the the player will voluntarily let the opponent capture their Queen and uh to to gain some sort of Advantage either material

Brian Atlasor gaining a better position or even a Checkmate so uh I think that the woman I think the woman should sacrifice their life I think the woman should sacrifice

Andrew Wilsontheir life do you have girlfriend well that is true the you do you do sacrifice the queen on behalf of the king in chess if you want to win sometimes that is true yeah so uh also do you guys think

Brian Atlasit it would be like it's more beta like beta male I don't like I don't like the alpha beta thing but do you think it's more beta if the guy's like not willing to like fight for his CH yes yeah

Brian Atlasabsolutely but check this out yeah just going around the table more more or less beta beta literally no comment no comment what you come on this would you would be

Brian Atlaslike what you little [ __ ] not going to right wouldn't that be your thinking no this little [ __ ] doesn't want to here okay let me let me give you a different scenario that's not as Extreme as life

Brian Atlasor death here's the scenario okay you're dating a dude and

Brian Atlasthen and then like some dude starts talking smack to you and he's like babe he seems really unhinged we we got

Yaelto let's leave someone's like legitimately unhinged or just like not like actually they you know what I mean if someone's like legitimately unhinged

Brian Atlaswe both got to go all right I don't want to be there I just want to point out one thing right uh you know I've heard from from the chat the chat thinks it's beta

Brian Atlasmale some women think it's beta male I would argue it's [ __ ] Sigma Alpha to let the woman die because here's why ladies here's why here's why think of like genas Khan right this guy had like

Brian Atlasconcubines and Mistresses and like multiple wives he had like I don't know if it was dozens or hundreds of wives this guy had the largest contigous land

Brian AtlasEmpire the Mongol Empire the the largest contigous some people are like there's Bigg contigous has a has a meaning guys biggest empire in the world

Brian Atlasmultiple wives hundreds of children you think he he would sacrifice his life for one of his measly wives that was not not my view his view he probably didn't care

TTS/Donationsmuch no he did care just Gerald donated $200 I'm trying guys I'm try chess player here the king is the most important piece if the king gets Scot

TTS/Donationsthe game's over if the queen gets Scot you can take a porn and make a new Queen sorry Mr Wilson that wasn't my argument my argument was that the Queen's the most most powerful piece on the board and it

Brian Atlasis f lost [Laughter] 200 and I do have a bone to pick with Andrew at some point if it could come up yeah we'll we I I do have that in the

Brian Atlasnotes in fact let me read one chat and then we'll get right to that so killer of cereal actually I need to do this one too kill of cereal for the panel which e ethnicity have you dated the most would

Yaelyou not date a certain ethnicity why starting with our dear friend can you pronounce it yel yeah okay look at that um sorry I already

Yaellost my train of thought oh it's it was can it pull back oh which ethnicity have you dated the most would you not date a certain ethnicity I've dated the most

Yaelwhite people I don't think white boys there's sorry no uh I don't think there's any ethnicity I would date what that you well you have it's basically asking if

Brian Atlasyou got a type you got a type you know you like them white boys black guys Latinos Pacific Islanders Native Americans I

Audreydon't want to say um on a live stream what my preference is on the basis of ethnicity that's

Audreyfair so you only you only date Vietnamese guys I I don't think that ethnicity is the most important thing no of course not um and like in terms of like who I

Audreyfind attractive um I haven't really dated a whole lot of people honestly the guy that I dated was white but I don't think that that's necessarily speaking to um my type and actually just curious what

Brian Atlaswhat is your uh ethnicity um I'm half Chinese half Italian okay all right um and what so what's your ethnicity and then just uh what

Sophiaethnicities have you dated uh and would you not date a certain ethnicity I am white but I'm like uh ethn like I don't know it I get confused

Sophiasometimes but I'm just like Latina but I a white woman the end um but I don't think I've had a preference so far it's been pretty mixed with everything yeah I

Brian Atlasthink like type in general just like more feminine guys you like you like more feminine guys yes did you just say that Nick's head

Brian Atlasbased what um so what what's like an example of a feminine guy like can you think of a celebrity that just so we know what you're kind of like into you

Sophiaknow um like a basic one I feel like Timothy shalam I was just thinking see he's kind of more feminine okay I think like yeah or you are you you like you

Sophiawant to peg him or like is that um I find him just more attractive but you I find like a man with feminine features tend to be more attractive

Brian Atlasattractive to me what are you on uh actually I'm curious about this I was going to ask uh are you on birth control uh I have an IUD hormonal or copper hormonal so there's like this Theory

Sophiabouncing around that women who are on birth control start to like lean towards being more attracted to feminine men as compared to more masculine then that's been no that's been the trend of my whole life I got this only last year so

Sophiait's been like that at least for me I don't know actually going around the table who hears on birth control yeah

Brian Atlaswhich kind pill kind I have the arm implant nexplanon mhm uh hormonal IUD no

Brian Atlasno no birth control no no I've never been on birth control no and I'm against hormonal birth control okay all right uh

Laurenyour answer to the uh ethnicity question um I like men of all ethnicities my boyfriend is Middle Eastern but I like any ethnicity sure I

Enaalso don't have a preference on this ethnicity um I prefer to date my own race which is like Slavic guys I've only ever been with white guys

Brian Atlasand I'm only attracted to white guys um I have a type blonde hair blue eyes it's kind of always been my type all right there you have it we have Anonymous Brian show this of the ladies hey

Brian AtlasAnonymous unfortunately um we're not really uh not really a thing here for for people to submit video reactions we don't really have the uh I mean yeah maybe someday we'll have we'll offer a

Brian Atlasdifferent tier for that but I do appreciate your message but we cannot uh just show randomly submitted videos but thank you man um going back to you you said you had some beef you got some beef with Andrew

Laurenwhy don't you get into that what are your uh quarrels and Grievances and dis agreements go ahead well I think Andrew Wilson is a very smart man and I enjoy

Laurenlistening to his debates one bone to pick with him is his treatment of women who are born again um in my experience

Laurenit sort of seems like you are extra harsh on them and what I would think is that if you wanted the world to be less degenerate that you would sort of

Laurenwelcome people wanting change their ways so I'm just curious what your motive is and being so harsh and I'd love to hear about it Andrew before you answer can you just

Brian Atlasfor for the panel and then for the viewers um do you for your OCD yes right here I'm framed up no no no no that's not um just uh can you just give a

Andrew Wilsonrundown so your your denomination of Christianity yeah I'm a Eastern Orthodox Christian um I I'm not a uh not a Protestant I'm happy to get into this

Andrew Wilsonthough right because I think that that's a uh seemingly Fair criticism on its face but as you've seen from can we agree on a couple of things first though you've seen from tonight's panel I

Andrew Wilsonbasically only give out the same energy that I get is that is that a fair thing to say you'd have to elaborate on that more meaning unless you're being particularly

Laurenhostile towards me I'm not particular L hostile towards you I don't actually agree with that I mean have I been have I been particularly hostile with you not with me but I think that you I've

Andrew Wilsonnoticed you being particularly hostile to this woman and I've noticed you being particularly hostile how was I how was I hostile with her I thought that we had a good back and forth engagement I think

Andrew Wilsonthat once you make exactly hang on hang on let me finish I treat her exactly how I would treat any man who is sitting where she was who had a contrary opinion to my own sure did I treat her

Andrew Wilsondifferently than that no okay so then by your logic then it's not just born again women who I would be

Andrew Wilsonuh brutal with in a debate but also men correct true yeah so I'm just going to treat both exactly the same yes right mhm okay so go ahead with the rest of your criticism just want to make sure we

Laurenget this uh well I'm what I'm curious about is your intention when you come on and you like what is wrong with a woman deciding that what

Laurenshe was doing was wrong and she wants to change her ways I haven't heard it on this panel tonight but in a lot of the whatever podcasts that's what I hear like there were a couple girls sitting

Laurenhere you know and you I don't know what's wrong with them deciding that they don't want to do what they're doing anymore and I don't know what kind of resume you have to have for you to not

Andrew Wilsonmock them nothing's wrong with that then why are you still mocking them you know well okay so I need you to try to separate two different two different

Andrew Wilsonthings going on okay so I believe that culture is downwind of Theology and politics is downwind of of culture so I think that politics is informed by the

Andrew Wilsonculture and the culture is informed by theology so imagine to my chrin if you have women who will take Christianity and [ __ ] it all up and twist it all up

Andrew Wilsonand mess it all up in order to appeal to uh other women and give them incorrect Theology and then preach that incorrect Theology and so we end up tangling in a theological debate where they say all

Andrew Wilsonsorts of crazy [ __ ] like this for instance yes it's okay if you play with tarot cards and you're a Christian or alternatively yes it's okay to be a magic user and a Christian or

Andrew Wilsonalternatively yes uh there's no you know you were a prostitute but that's very similar to people smoking cigarettes you can imagine Mya grin hearing that from these

Andrew Wilsonwomen because it seems like they're trying to uh plate other women into bringing them into a false Faith which I think apostasis is worse worse than

Andrew Wilsonanything else so I think coming into false Christianity is almost as bad as the degeneracy itself okay that's a great answer my

Laurenwhat I would say back to you is that the way that you argue it doesn't seem like you have a lot of love it doesn't seem like it's coming from love like there

Laurenwas one woman not coming from love it's coming from logic I don't make argumentations law is in love I mean is is man for law or is law for man there was one woman who was here and she

Laurenturned around will you let me finish please she turned around and said that she didn't want to do her old ways anymore she had already come so far she had a husband she had a Ministry and you

Andrew Wilsonwere on here like getting on her about did you say she had a Ministry yeah and I that's what you were getting on her about sure I'm clear that's what you were getting on her about hang on stop

Laurenstop my turn now did you say she had a Ministry of women yeah are women allowed to have Ministries that's what you say but I don't agree with that right you don't

Andrew Wilsonagree with that you're preaching a false Doctrine you want women to be clergy you want women to leave women inside inside of a hang on let me finish inside of a patriarchal okay you tell me when I'm

Laurenallowed to respond to your points go ahead okay I think that when you preach out of this like intent to mock women I

Laurenmean the your your base is men like I feel like when you come on these things I mean correct me if I'm wrong but it

Laurenfeels like your intent is to mock women for these comments and it I don't see how that is helping the world be better I understand what you're saying that you

Laurendon't want women um with a false Doctrine but at the same time it just seems like it's not coming from love that you are like women want to turn away from porn or turn away from like

Laurenwhat they've been doing and you are like berating them you're criticizing them you're making it like you're embarrassing them and making it hard for other women who are Maybe viewing this

Laurento turn their own ways and to me that's that's making degeneracy grow like you are enabling this hate women sort of mentality in my opinion that's what

Laurenthat's how it comes off to a woman watching the show it's like you are not able to turn away from what you want to turn from can I add to that and I don't want to like be judgmental no you can't add to that because we're in the middle of

Andrew Wilsonhaving a conversation and then you can add to it so am I allowed to resp respond to these points now now can you admit that I did not interrupt you at all while you were

Andrew Wilsongoing through that great so let's go through it one at a time one that's just tone policing you never made a single argument why do I want people to come into a false Faith why do I want that

Andrew Wilsonthat's bad not only that but let us assume for a second that you don't know my end of it how many people reach out to me uh after these shows who are women who say thank you for challenging my

Andrew Wilsonworldview I never thought of things like that at all or I know I got demolished or how many hundreds of women send me DMS outside of this show who say it's due to your argumentation your logical argumentation that I came over to this

Andrew Wilsonyou're making arguments which are appealing to emotion you're saying emotionally when I hear what you say it emotionally makes me feel bad well that's great but I need you to understand that I don't give a [ __ ] how

Andrew Wilsonit makes you feel what I care about is what is logically true and consistent and what I care about is the argument you might say so for instance imagine this you would agree with me that

Andrew Wilsonthere's going to be a lot more Christians if we include homosexuals into Christianity right I don't know I wasn't brought up in church I don't know okay but you would agree that if you had a church which barred homosexuals and then the

Andrew Wilsonchurch allowed homosexuals in that you would have a lot more Andrew avoid that topic if you can okay um could I respond

Andrew Wilsonto what you said if if it was people of the same sex if you let more of them in right you would agree that you would have a much larger congregation right

Andrew Wilsonbut you can't you can't allow people to defeat what the purpose of the religion is uh because they choose not to wake up one day and go I'm not going to be a prostitute anymore and then I need you to respond to my last point and this is

Andrew Wilsonthe the one that I really want you to focus on there's a lot of women who utilize Christianity and the faith of Christian Chris it to hide behind and

Andrew Wilsonthey become reformed not because they have found Christ at all but because they use Christianity is a shield from criticism and that I believe is where most of the tone policing from women

Andrew Wilsoncomes from that you're utilizing tone policing to say no you're not allowed to criticize me now because I've turned away from my degenerate ways no that's not the purpose of Christianity either is that now suddenly you're above

Laurencriticism that's not how that works yeah I know about your your um stance on tone I know about that and that's not actually what offends me um

Laurenwhat offends me is actually your use of the law against women because I don't think that like that that woman who was

Laurenhere um who was who had been born again and and she had gone such a long ways and you were it doesn't matter the way you say it like I know how your stance

Laurenon tone so it's fine by me but you were saying that she was somehow not worthy of being who she was because she was teaching other women I don't

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