RAGE QUITS?! Andrew Wilson vs. Liberal Feminists! 2+24? TOO Picky?! | Dating Talk #161

Date: 2024-05-15

Duration: 7h 18m

Guests

Brian Atlas

AAndrew Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_03Sophia(guest)

SPEAKER_04Paige(guest)

SPEAKER_05Yael(guest)

SPEAKER_06Lissa(guest)

SPEAKER_07Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_08Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_10Lauren(guest)

SPEAKER_11Ena(guest)

SPEAKER_13Haley(guest)

SPEAKER_14Audrey(guest)

Key Moments

QuoteAudrey chooses bear: "I would say a bear because I know that at least like the worst thing he could do is kill me, a man could do a variety of things"

QuoteAndrew calculates that if 30-40% of men would attack women, that equals 33-55 million American men who would assault women in the woods

QuoteAndrew's bear logic test: "walk over to random men you don't know, reach over and pat them on the head and walk away; do the same with wild bears — which one attacks you quicker"

ControversySophia says she would rather be killed in a home invasion than have her husband use a gun to defend them because she is terrified of firearms

QuoteLissa rates herself a 10 out of 10; says she is "showstopping"

QuoteAndrew Wilson rates himself a 4 out of 10 on looks

ControversyLauren directly challenges Andrew Wilson on his treatment of born-again women: "it sort of seems like you are extra harsh on them... it doesn't seem like it's coming from love"

ControversyYael accuses Andrew of hypocrisy: "do you know what's also wrong — smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol... your body is a temple"

ControversyAudrey expresses collective frustration near end of show: "we feel a little bit irritated and a little bit disrespected... we came here thinking we were going to speak about our experience and all we did was essentially get argued against"

QuoteFinal body count round: Audrey states body count of 2; most others decline to answer

Topics Discussed

Introductions and relationship statuses

Brian introduces the panel; each guest states name, age, location, occupation, and relationship status. Includes extended discussion of Yael's complicated situationship with ex-boyfriend at Cal Poly.

Friends with exes

Panel discusses whether remaining friends with an ex is a good look in a new relationship.

Man vs bear viral debate

Extended multi-round discussion of the viral "man or bear in the woods" question. Panel divided; most chose bear. Andrew Wilson and Brian present statistical and logical rebuttals. Covers per capita attack rates, anthropomorphizing animals, bear vs man safety.

Bumble swiping segment

Each guest given 20 Bumble profiles to swipe yes/no on. Most guests were very selective (few or no yes swipes). Discussion of why they said no to most profiles.

Gun ownership and home invasion

Panel asked about comfort with partners owning firearms and home invasion scenario. Several guests expressed fear of guns; Sophia said she would rather be killed than have husband use a gun. Haley stated a man must own a firearm to date her.

Self-ratings (looks 1-10)

Brian asks each guest to rate their looks 1-10. Ratings ranged from 4 (Andrew) to 10 (Lissa). Extended debate about what a 10 means and whether self-rating reflects comparative standards.

Attractiveness over time and fertility

Brian asks if guests will be more attractive in 10 years. Andrew follows up asking about fertility decline. Debate about whether women peak in 20s and delusional self-assessments.

Taking a bullet / gender roles in protection

Panel asked if men should take a bullet for their girlfriend. Extended discussion of car-or-Grim-Reaper sacrifice scenarios. Debate about whether expecting men to defend honor while rejecting bullet-taking is inconsistent.

Andrew Wilson vs born-again women / women in clergy

Lauren challenges Andrew on his treatment of born-again women on the show. Andrew explains he objects to false theology not personal reform. Extended theological debate about whether women can be Christian clergy; Andrew cites 1 Timothy.

Feminism, oppression, and men vs women

Broad debate on feminism, whether patriarchy exists, gender oppression comparisons, male vs female emotional decision-making, and whether women should vote.

Military conscription and draft equity

Brian and Andrew argue that male-only selective service is a counter-example to feminist equity arguments. Audrey struggles to propose an equitable solution. Discussion of whether women being exempt from draft is a privilege.

Racism toward white people / white privilege

Panel asked if you can be racist toward white people. Lissa says no (prejudice+power definition). Andrew challenges with bigotry framing. Brief white privilege discussion.

Closing chaos roast section

TTS donation roast messages read aloud. Body count round at end. Audrey states body count of 2. Others decline. Brian wraps up and does Twitch raid.

Transcript

Page 5 of 8

Andrew Wilsonthink you said correct on that so let me so let me respond to both of these points point one she can't teach other women cuz women can't be clergy in Christianity two she made it a point

Andrew Wilsonthat niess was a Christian a part of Christian doctrine and it's not and it never has been and I pointed out that this is not a Christian virtue she's teaching falsely women cannot be clergy

Andrew Wilsonin Christianity period they're not allowed to be clergy period never not not even not even once they're not allowed to even once you can't be like up we're just funing we just made one

Andrew Wilsonfor the fun of it even if the results of it you could argue the results or the consequences of this might be better in some way it doesn't matter the purpose of the religion is not that the

Laurenconsequences are always good that's not the purpose of the religion I understand so I do know that that's backed up biblically and I'd also like to say that in first Timothy it says treat older

Laurenwomen like your mothers and treat younger women like they're your sisters with Purity and I'm wondering where do you follow the law on that well so yeah let's dive into this when it when we're

Andrew Wilsontalking about matrons you're talking about Paul in this case and I quote this quite a bit myself and when you're talking about matrons and how matrons are supposed to teach they're supposed to teach from a position of a pure heart

Andrew Wilsonto uh only women they're not supposed to have a Ministry Ministry would imply both it's okay for matrons to give matly wisdom hang onang on let me finish I'm

Andrew Wilsonanswering the question it's okay for matrons to give matronly wisdom but they're not allowed to teach the gospel they're not allowed to do that that's not their place they're not allowed to

Andrew Wilsonbe clergy allow to not treat women with respect almost done almost done didn't cut you off almost done if she was just talking to her daughter F about about

Andrew Wilsonthe gospel things like this fine okay but saying I'm a minister I'm a part of clergy and teach women as a part of a church clergy is wrong period it's wrong

Yaelacross the board it's wrong I disagree do you know what's also wrong smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol which you've been doing the whole time you know if we're going to talk because your

Yaelbody is a temple your body is a temple yeah where's that said in the it is said in the Bible and you're ruining your temple and it does say you're not supposed to get drunk because you're drunk I'm not I'm just saying you're

Andrew Wilsondrinking alcohol and you're smoking cigarettes alcohol a problem no I'm just saying if you're going to talk about Christianity drinking alcohol is not a problem okay so then why'd you bring it up as being a problem for a Christian perspective getting drunk is any kind of

Andrew Wilsonam I drunk I don't know are you well let's see I don't know show for 5 hours we've been at the show for 5 hours I've had three beers do you think I'm drunk but if you're going to judge then you

Andrew Wilsonknow you have to get judgment back so and a good Christian actually does you have judged hang on hang on so you have judged that Christians are not allowed to drink alcohol is that correct no that's not what I'm saying all why did

Yaelyou bring that up as a criticism you can't say that you're so righteous if you're sinning of God and sins are the same in the Bible tell why I can't drink tell me why I can't drink it does not

TTS/Donationsmatter if you are the truth is what matters she was calling herself a Pastor which is not possible and a lie a lie is a sin teaching from a place of Lies

Andrew Wilsonfurthers the sin tell me so tell me where tell me why I'm not allowed to drink beer while while I'm doing a podcast tell me why that's sinful tell me why that's wrong

Yaelgo ahead you can do whatever you want and I'm not judging nobody's that's what I ising if you're ruining your temple which is God's body for you right do I

Yaelruin my temple just like a prostitute is ruining her body it's the same thing a sin is a it says in the old test right they are am I allowed to eat a donut am I allowed to eat a donut technically no it's bad for

Yaelyour body no I'm not allowed to eat a donut am I allowed to breathe oxygen I mean because that decays my body over time but if you're talking about putting like high fructose corn syrup and all those bad things in your body it is technically because it is it is your

Andrew Wilsontemple I'm not saying we're perfect but I'm just calling you out to go off what she I make sure hang on hang on stop now you know now if you want to know why it is I'm so hard on these women now you

Andrew Wilsonknow because this woman next to you just told me that it's sinful to drink she couldn't back it up right she did she she did make an actual hang on stop my turn now she did make an actual biblical

Andrew Wilsonappeal but she didn't know where it was she just heard it in passing on top of that she said I can't drink a Coke I can't eat a dut right I can't do anything apparently Christians aren't

Andrew Wilsonallowed to do anything because if we eat a donut that's like sucking aund dicks like a prostitute right that is not what I said that's not what I said literally where did that come from yeah well isn't

Laurenthat an entailment I'm sorry isn't that an entailment isn't sucking a 100 penises like me eating a donut go ahead well I think what she's trying say which she can correct me if I'm wrong but I think what she's trying to say is that everybody has all these like sins

Laurenwhether they're hidden or not okay I'm not say I'm not saying what you're doing is a sin I don't know you you know I don't know what in the context of it I'm just saying every what I'm doing is a sin or not you don't have judgment no

Laurenyou don't have discernment you can't discern what's a sin no uhuh not your then why should I take your word for anything when it comes to Christianity you can't even discern what's a sin it's between you and God Andrew I'm not going to like I'm not going to look into your

Laurenlife yeah you can have whatever criticisms you have about me you know that's fine all I'm saying is that have I made any personal criticisms about you seems like all the criticisms from you guys to me what you just said was that

Andrew Wilsonyou can't trust what I say about God and that's fine because like I said I didn't that's not a personal criticism that's an entailment of your logic if you say I cannot make any judgment on another

Laurenperson's sin then you have told me that you cannot discern what is sin well you you are incapable of telling me what is sinful so I would I ever listen for another person for myself I think I can

Laurentell for myself but I don't know like I don't know your whole grand scheme of things I think for some people drinking could be a sin for some people it could not I'm just saying I don't I'm not here

Brian AtlasI I don't think that I could adequately point at your sins and I stand by that but this is this is a bit of a whataboutism about his drinking I do want to BR quickly bring it back to your

Brian Atlaspoint about so are you're a Christian correct I am and so do you think that uh do you think women can be uh pastors I what's your denomination by

Laurenthe way are you proant well I they all are no I did not grow up in church I grew up a different religion that's what's your denomination I do not have a Don nomination I yeah

Andrew Wilsonright non denominational all of you are always non-denominational but so can women be pastors I like I don't know I you know but I'm asking because you

Brian Atlasobjected to his position and biblically it would seem to indicate that women can't be pastors from a Christian worldview MH grid One Motorsports donated

TTS/Donations$200 none of the things you have pointed out ladies are sins the Chron you are referencing committed fetus deletus which is an actual sin why do you

Andrew Wilsonsupport such a person you ladies need to study you're wondering why these entanglements happen these entanglements happen because people try to tell me what's what when it comes to this that's

Andrew Wilsonfine you can but then you should expect an argument and you should expect me to argue in favor of my worldview which arguably I can make an argument right now even if I knew nothing else I could

Andrew Wilsontell you that if somebody's saying that me drinking a Coca-Cola or having a beer is similar to prostitution they're insane that that's ludicrous on its face well I don't think that anybody here

Andrew Wilsonsaid that and I also okay well then well then why can't I eat a dut I don't think that anybody here ever said that I think that we just she said I can't eat a donut I'm going to tell you what she said she said I can't eat a donut

Laurenbecause it's polluting the temple there was a pastor who said if you drink if you drink water when you're supposed to be worshiping the Lord then drinking water could be a sin and I just want to ask you Andrew like Ser seriously I have

Laurena serious question for you like I know that you have problems with everyone's going to have a lack of Education in the beginning when they find Jesus but do you not want people to find

Andrew WilsonJesus then why are they calling themselves pastors I'm not calling myself a pastor saying if they don't know what the [ __ ] they're talking about

Laurenwhy would you do that you think that if Jesus saw someone who said said I I love God and I want to turn away from sin he would be like you don't know enough you mean Pharisees yeah he did it all the time no he did not tell the Pharisees

Andrew Wilsonthey didn't know enough he told them that what they were doing was corrup time he told listen I'm telling you right now that there's plenty of people who have false Ministries who are running around saying they do there's been women on this panel who I've

Andrew WilsonTangled with but you're not answering my question my question is I'm answering it directly no you're not they have yes I am they've said directly to me that they have visions from God and that they're

Laurenprophets of God I've heard that they've said it to me so what do you want me to say to these people question what do you want what do you want like if do you want women to be degenerate or do you

Andrew Wilsonwant them to turn their ways what do you want well I'm I'm sorry again I'm going to tell you you can do both it's not a bifurcation it's not a oh I I I'm going

Andrew Wilsonto use Christianity as a shield while I preach a false gospel that's a b you can do both not and be a real chrisan have

TTS/Donationsyou looked in the miror blond tubby girl one pull you jack it up G2 less make up the Bible is ambivalent towards alcohol considering it both a blessing and

Brian Atlaspotential Danger from God I do need Chandy yeah hey Jeremy thank you let me let me let me finish this up though quick okay yeah so anyway so back to this you can do both but don't tell me

Andrew Wilsonthat just because you turned away from degeneracy 15 years ago and now you have a ministry as a female that I'm not allowed to tangle with you theologically because I never was a prostitute I don't get to say I was never a prostitute so

Andrew Wilsonnow I'm above criticism but you're telling me that because they have stopped being prostitutes now they're above me criticizing their theology that's absurd I don't think you're

Laurenthey're above you criticizing their theology I just think that the way that you approach them from an outside standpoint someone watches the podcast it comes off hateful it comes off

Andrew Wilsonhateful that's just I'm sorry about your emotional state you'd have to talk to the thousands of people who it doesn't come off hateful to but rather would prefer to see these people confronted because nobody's ever confronted them and they get to just basically run

Andrew Wilsonaround do whatever the hell they want there's never any ideological push back at all so what you're saying but I just want you to let you know that this is what I Hear What I Hear is but they're

Andrew Wilsonnot prostitutes anymore so isn't that good enough yet yet interestingly enough where's my extra credit for never having been a prostitute I don't get any and

Andrew Wilsonyet my theology can still be criticized isn't that interesting but theirs can't be because they stop sucking dick a few years ago it's ridiculous I think that you have fair game to criticize them I think that

Laurenthat's totally fine I've never been a prostitute either all I'm saying is that I think for the like health and well-being of the world it would be great to be more welcoming to those people that's all I'm saying if you want

Laurento turn away I think it's a great thing turn away that's all I'm saying yeah that's a great first step but that doesn't mean that now all criticism uh

Andrew Wilsongets to fly by night doesn't mean that you get to pull a Nala and do a oh I'm I'm done with the only fans well that's fantastic but when people say okay but where's the compensation to the thousands that you've wronged how are

Andrew Wilsonyou going to make amends for these horrific things that you did which even a court would have an expectation that you paid compensation for people you victimized and yet somehow they can use this as a shield from criticism uh

Andrew Wilsonwhereas those who've never engaged in such horrific activity get no additional credit for never having engaged in it it's ridiculous got to move things that is ridiculous got to move things on we

Brian Atlashave gr Gracie ladies of certain segment of society predictably make logical decisions primarily based on the Motions is the world better off if that segment of society chooses its leader SL

Brian Atlaslaws is the world better off if that segment of society chooses wait certain segment of society predict predictably make logical decisions based on the Motions is the world better off

Andrew Wilsonif that segment of society chooses its leaders and laws just busy busy sitting over here my wife made divies for me get a donut Andrew you need a donut well it's hor it's horrifically I'm going to

Andrew Wilsonwash you down with a beard too I mean how dare I a cookie and drink a beer and criticize a prostitute can I say something that I mean I I really need to pull the plank out of my own eye here

Yaelyou degenerate go ahead okay all I'm saying is they I don't know who they is the devil is trying to keep you enslaved right so the more things that you're doing in your

Yaellife that are going to keep you in a low vibrational whether it's eating sugar drinking alcohol smoking cigarettes those types of things are going to keep you in a low vibration and you're not

Andrew Wilsongoing to be able to get closer to God when you're in that state why morm don't allow you to have CA right should we be at 96.8 Hertz for our vibration I'm not trying to sound like a new age hippie at

Yaelall I'm just say sure sound like one definitely brings you down to the third dimension right the third dimension how many dimensions are there

Andrew WilsonI don't know erroneous there erroneous let move it on you're not allowed to criticize theology Andrew after all drinking beer brings you down to the third dimension right

Brian Atlasyou're not you're not going to be able to get closer to God doing those things yeah I know I'll be down Third Dimension just give me an quick answers on this one if a certain segment of society predictably make a logical

Brian Atlasdecisions primarily based on emotions is the world better off if that segment of society chooses its leaders and laws if you're talking about if women should vote I obviously think women should vote I don't know if that's what the question

Audreyis asking but you can take it however you you can take it however you want I'm going to choose to take it not in the context of women um and say why would we let a bunch of toddlers run the world we wouldn't so no mhm I think a lot of

Sophiapeople still vote emotionally or like chooses their leaders based on emotions and like things so no I'd say like don't take like let them vote as

Brian Atlaswell well the question is is the world better off I don't if they get to choose who the leaders are and what the laws are I already do everyone's a lot of vot so I don't think that priv all right all

Laurenright all right go ahead go ahead go ahead I think anybody affected by the law should be able to vote for the law yeah anyone under the law should vote for the law I agree everyone should vote the world would not be better and they

Haleyshould not I agree the world would not be a better place I think people should vote more logically not emotionally for those of you said whoever is impacted by the law should be

Brian Atlasable to have a say do you guys think that since women are in the privileged position of not being subject to forced military conscription that they should not be able to vote on matters that have

Brian Atlasto do with uh uh you know um any sort of scenario voting for a war for example yes to go to war since women are not subject to forced military conscription

Lissawhat do you say to that um yeah I feel like you should still be able to vote because it's like politicians deciding making laws for uh civilians who have to go to like public education they didn't have to go to

Brian Atlaspublic education their kids don't have to not really answering my question but so do you think uh female politicians should be able to vote uh to let's say to vote to uh have a draft yeah it

Lissadoesn't even though the draft only men are subject to politicians already make laws that have nothing to do with them people vote on them that have nothing to do with them so yes it doesn't really make a difference okay all right um

Brian Atlastrying to think where we were can I say one thing go ahead I think everyone should be drafted everyone should be subject to

Brian Atlasmilitary subject to mil yes everyone's going to war uh last so Gina you said I mean you kind of already talked about this you said your primary disagreement with Andrew is that uh you

Brian Atlasdis you said you disagree with much of what Andrew Wilson says and the way he says it I think the tone argument Andrew I think you've already addressed it correct mhm and also not just what I say

Laurenit's how you say it how I say it yeah and since I wrote that I actually watched Andrew's thing about his tone and I'm fine with Andrew's tone he can do what he wants I still disagree with what he says uh so you disagreed with

Laurenthe component of what he said about when it came to women being able to be part of the clergy under Christianity that I I don't I don't have like I'm not a clergy so I don't have a fully informed

Laurenyou do you think it's like kind of a sexist Christian worldview for women to not be allowed to be clergy I mean I'd love for him to change my opinion on it but I've been like looking at it in preparation for coming here and thinking

Laurenabout submission and I I don't really understand it to be honest well I don't understand women being barred from being clergy especially over other women like if they could help other women I don't

Brian Atlasunder I I think said that they can look I'm not really an expert on this topic but neither am I um I'm just trying to clarify here uh but so you do take issue with the clergy thing I don't understand

Andrew Wilsonwhy a woman would not be able to be in clergy well I think it's because the Bible says it I love the verse can I hear first Timothy I do not allow women to teach or exercise authority over a

Andrew Wilsonman but to remain quiet or it was Adam who first created then Eve not only that but of course we have oh I don't know about 2,000 years of church history

Andrew Wilsonwhich expresses that women are not allowed to be in clergy um not only that prots who aren part of traditional who aren't part of traditional Christianity also many Protestant sects bar them from

Andrew Wilsonbeing clergy they're not allowed to be clergy they're not allowed to teach men they must submit and Obey that's the part that you guys on that side of the

Andrew Wilsonreal good Feelgood Good Vibrations Christianity don't like gives you third dimensional fourth dimensional bad vibes when patriarchal uh Christian Authority comes out and is like nah you you got to

Laurensit down and shut up cuz it's not your place to teach they make some real mades right in their fields not really not me I've just never experienced a man that did that like I don't I didn't grow up

Laurenin church and I don't I know a lot of women who are great leaders and teach other people so I'm just confused like I get the law that's the Bible which ones which women are great leaders who lead

Laurenother people I'm CU B can you name one that I would know name one my bosses aren't famous do you want my bosses aren't famous but they're amazing leers and they run the whole place so I don't

Andrew Wilsonreally see it yeah how about for me what is it I mean I can't I can't compete with your bosses right cuz I don't know who they are how about just naming one that I would know who's a great leader

Andrew Wilsonwho's famous name a famous woman who you think is a great leader for me since there's so many of them go ahead I would say gold golden my ear Angela

LaurenMerkel my was a great leader she was the first female prime minister of Israel and I think she was a great leader I think she did a lot yeah what was one

Laurenpolicy that she passed she passed the policy to help women gain their rights in Israel so it is a feminist policy which I know you're against I can't name it yeah you don't know you don't know

Andrew Wilsonanything about her other than she just to be leader in Israel Angela Merkel was mentioned terrible leader absolutely opened up the floodgates for immigration into the EU terrible leader uh was at

Andrew Wilsonthe Forefront of trying to rage against what would later become brexit as well terrible leader so I don't know we're all these great female leaders I'd like to know in my personal life like are you

Laurensupposed to say that the people in my personal life let me move this on a little bit um what is there anything else besides the clergy thing that you love for like I don't I I just I mean

Laurenmaybe it's a personal off like camera subject but I just I still I'm just not convinced I just don't understand about what why women can't be clergy okay

Andrew Wilsonbesides that told besides that I just told you the entirety the church bars them from it I just read you the letter between Timothy and Paul where he was instructed that women must shut up and not teach

Laurenthat is not their place ever I understand those are ancient times but also what about women who are teachers like why should they shut up okay you're

Andrew WilsonShifting the goal post sh the women kindergarteners they can teach high schoolers nobody's saying that they can't we're talking about chur can't teach adults he's no he's talking about

Laurenchurch no the go Church yeah I still think that women are able to teach it like but it's I understand the Bible says X if the Bible says the Bible it

Andrew Wilsonsays we're supposed to sacrifice animals I don't know is this the old test it do in Exodus it you're supposed to sacrifice animals do you think that do you think that we're Jewish because

Andrew Wilsonwe're not Jewish we're Christians oppos of Jewish we're not Jewish we don't sacrifice animals we follow the New Testament not follow the Old Testament is Old Testament right Andrew

Brian Atlasbut in my opinion that's cherrying that's Cherry peing you're saying the Bible hold on just a second here yo stay safe thank you for the raid brother appreciate it hope you had a good stream

Brian Atlasuh thank you very much stay safe if one of the mods can do a shout out on Twitch uh appreciate it man thank you very much thank you very much um uh really quick guys twitch.tv/ whatever yo stay safe thank

Brian Atlasyou again for the raid man really appreciate it uh drop us if you're over the if you're new from stays safe if you guys can drop us a little follow a little follow in the chat guys we are

Brian Atlastalking about dating a World of Warcraft player uh you know what's the best like you know the B the b list for like dating and uh we're talking about bis you know we we were talking about like

Brian Atlasthe best I'm not going to go there but okay uh all right thank you stay safe appreciate it man um okay do you have any other criticisms besides so just real quick to clarify you can point to

Andrew Wilsonabrahamic religions Judaism is a different religion than Christianity Muslims are different religion than Christianity they're not the same religion when you reference the Old Testament alone you're taking away the

TTS/Donationsentirety of the new COV has nothing to do Jesus was the final sacrifice we don't sacrifice what you think the Bible says exactly what it says women are not equal to men and you should be glad of

Andrew Wilsonit feminism has failed you please get some help be better Jesus Jesus was the sacrifice we don't sacrifice animals like heathens I I I don't know what

Laurenyou're talking about I have one last thing to say so let's say cuz I'm just I'm new to the idea of submission okay

Laurenso let's say yeah mhm I was raised Jewish okay so no so let's say a woman let's say a wife submits her husband does something that's like sh on her

Laurenmoral compass but she does it cuz her husband says yes then she gets a God on Judgment Day and she says but my husband told me to yeah you have to submit to within what is considered rational but

Andrew Wilsonthe problem what if it's on the line what if it's something very like I'm trying to explain it to you I'm trying to explain it to you so that you understand submission still has to be within the confines of what's rational we know it's rational because we have

Andrew Wilsonchurch church teachings which explain it to us and an entirety of clergy and a community of support which can help even if an irrational decision is attempted by a husband you do need to submit though to what is rational as

Andrew Wilsonyou've seen going around this table tonight there are women who would rather live in a forest with a bear and even if a man came out to take them out of the situation they wouldn't do it that is

Andrew Wilsonirrational that would be the opposite of submission to the patriarchy so yes uh submission still needs to be within the confines of rationality but as I've seen

Andrew Wilsonthis table tonight there's not that much of that to go around I thought this was a podcast about dating yeah but it also there's a section since we've been talking about

Andrew Wilsondating for hours where people who are critics of ours can criticize and so we take it on with the critics you've talked plenty that there's no reason for us not to be able to engage on this

Andrew Wilsontopic no I'm not saying that I I was just curious how it was well religion is one of the most hot button issues including when it comes to dating people don't date outside of religion for instance they may not date outside of

Andrew Wilsoncertain preferences religion is definitely keyed in as one of the hot button issues when it comes to dating inside of the United States in the west do you have anything else that you disagree with andreon that you wanted to

Brian Atlastouch on not right now we can keep moving okay uh going to Ena over here Ena you said there's no such thing as 50-50 where you come from not even a question yeah um what so what do you

Yaelmean by that well I mean I just feel like if a guy wants to go 5050 he just wants to be friends and over in that part of the world men literally buy their potential spouses cars and flowers

Yaeland do all all the things before they get married so they choose their mate based on who kind of more monetarily brings them well you're from Ukraine correct yeah okay and that was that your

Yaelexperience your personal experience in Ukraine no I mean I came here as a kid I was like five so I grew up in America but just knowing like women over there but is your standard are are you holding

Yaelmen to this in the US to this Ukrainian standard I mean I've never been asked to pay for a date I actually had a guy kind of mock me in a way he's like oh you want to pay and I was like I mean okay and he's like no

Brian Atlaslike got like really offended about it like I'm not going to ask you to pay he was just making fun of you object to 5050 right yeah just going around the table really quick on this um are you fine with 50/50 or you prefer a guy to be more provider pay for First Dates pay

Yaelfor datay on a date yeah yeah I'm down with 5050 with 50/50 on a date yeah completely okay yeah yeah

Haleyyeah 50/50 yeah I think it I think it should be 50/50 cuz you don't know each other a lot when you're first dating so you seem to be a bit an outlier here Ena

Yaelso you you are very strongly against 50-50 is that correct yeah I mean that's kind of the point of um provide and protect should

Brian Atlasbe able to kind of demonstrate that they can provide and protect before you go any fur I was just curious though cuz I know this morning we were talking about the clergy thing you seem to have a very strong negative reaction to this uh what

Brian AtlasI assume to be your view of this sort of sexist standard against women being able to participate in the in the clergy under the Christian worldview is that correct yeah well how I was raised um

Yaellike my parents church there would never be women leaders and I know people have left um who grew up in the in the United States like me because they did not feel that it was correct that they couldn't

Brian Atlaslead churches I'm sorry did they go to better churches no I'm saying like the women left because they couldn't lead like and you think it was wrong oh great and you think it was wrong that the women were

Yaelnot able to participate in the clergy um this is a hard one for me do it as sexist it's a hard one for me I still

Brian Atlasthink men should lead but you you to have and in life and in general okay I was just a little confused because you on one hand you have the seems like you have a objection

Brian Atlasor criticism of the whole you seem to have been upset by Andrew's assertion that women can't be clergy no I don't I mean I don't necess the way that I was raised they cannot be

Brian Atlasclergy but do you do you take a quarrel with that do you feel it is uh unjust I don't really I don't really

Andrew Wilsonknow how I feel about that honestly do you think Jesus was a feminist no are you sure do you do you think do you think he would that that he was like Buddy Christ just like in Dogma where he was like and he would do that and you

Andrew Wilsonknow he would be here for the Selfies and feminism now or do you think that uh Christianity has always been run under a patriarchy and it has been since Jesus

YaelChrist's Apostles ran his church and it was under a patriarchy like which which which which one do you think I mean I do agree that men should lead women that's all I'm going to really say about that

Brian Atlaswhether it comes to church I seem to I seem to remember that you had an objection to the I I'm afraid you're attempting to walk it back now because you know D exactly what I'm leading you towards you have an objection of this

Brian Atlasstandard of well women should be able to be clergy yet you have which you view as sexist but your view that men should be providers and should pay for First Dates

Yaelis a sexist view you're holding men to a g expectation I mean like what are you saying that I was against what he said cuz I was kind of agreeing with what he

Yaelwas saying that women shouldn't be leaders that's how I was raised um my personal feelings about it it's hard in this type but that's how I was raised as men should be the ones leading the church well perhaps I'm

Brian Atlasmisremembering but it seemed like you did have an objection to the whole women can't be clergy thing uh under Christianity no I was agreeing with him more so like

YaelI think I was nodding my head one of the are you pro-choice pro-choice no I'm pro life Pro abortion no I'm pro-life no and did that come from your parents too no I

Yaeldon't believe you should kill children even if they're like I don't even if it's rape or incest or anything I think the only time it's okay to kill is when the mom's um life is at risk two times

Andrew Wilsonyeah that was that part of your upbringing yeah yeah right so so sounds like your parents had at least a good foothold on what Christianity is

Yaelsupposed to be right yeah well my D patriarch died in the Soviet Union cuz he refused to use a gun and shoot people um at that time so they the Soviets put

Andrew Wilsonhim in a coma for like two months was he uh was he an Eastern Orthodox many of them did that I'm not sure I think so oh well if he was in the Soviet Union he I mean he

Brian Atlasmay not have been but that was that's a pretty pretty common there so yeah I was just curious I do want to bring it back to I think we went around the table on this uh were we talking did everyone

Brian Atlasgive their answers to if you consider yourself a feminist really quick just a reminder show of hands who here is a feminist show of hands raise them

Brian Atlashigh okay all right uh so I just want to kind of get a better sense of that one so uh those of you who said you're feminist do you believe that there is a

Paigepatriarchy starting with you yeah yes yes yes okay can you guys just tell

Yaelme what the patriarchy is am I sorry yeah just well I'll always start over here oh um okay hierarchy of people and the Order of how you know

Yaelpeople in power are and who is looked at as someone who can have power and who cannot or who should not be given power does that make sense I didn't explain that very well but

Audreyuh sure okay what about you um I I think the the word gets overused

Audreybut my definition would be that the patriarchy is a societal structure where men are dominant and women are

Audreysubordinate to men and their in the G in their gender rules and their expectations and the positions of power

Sophiathat they have access to okay yeah um I think the patriarchy has been how the world kind of came to be men and being Empower women always being like I won't

Sophiause the words always I feel like that's a very strong word but women tend like women usually being not as powerful as men in social structures the hierarchy

Sophiaof power and like every scenario and like the family and work everywhere yeah basically everything they said it's

TTS/Donationsa hierarchy that puts men in power okay and so under this hierarchy under this Jeremy donated

TTS/Donations$200 back to the bear you can reason with man you can't reason with a bear enjoyed the bear do you think Brian and Andrew do this for a good reason don't

Brian Atlasyou see the logic grid One Motorsports my bro uh thank you Jeremy man appreciate it good to to see you in the chat dude uh you were a legend on Sunday show so

Brian Atlasgood to see you back really uh very much appreciate your patronage so under patriarchy which it seems like you guys assert that it's there is it exists it's

Lissaa thing uh are women oppressed under the patriarchy I'll start with you um it really depends under which one

Sophiaand let's just say the US the US yes yes okay I think women have been yet yes are they currently yes in many many situations

Audreyyes okay uh I'll get all your answers first what about you in a lot of Dimensions yes but I think that women in some Dimensions do benefit from the

Brian Atlaspatriarchy I agree with everything they said okay so under the patriarchy then if women are oppressed are W are men the

Lissaoppressors starting with you um not necessarily it's both genders doing the oppressing when we're under the patriarchy would it be a patriarchy then

Lissaif it was well yeah because women can still oppress other women under a patriarchy like for example an anti-feminist with a

Lissafeminist that would be a question yeah how would that be can can I just make sure I get this right like an anti-feminist making anti-abortion law

Brian Atlasisn't that a pressing woman how would that be a pressing woman wait Andrew ask answer or excuse me ask your original question yeah I well I just want to make sure though um it can't be equal between

Andrew Wilsonmen and women if they're ruling over you and be a patriarchy right yeah yeah so so it would still be women are being

Andrew Wilsonoppressed specifically by men yes okay and an entailment of feminism you would agree is that it's women who need to dismantle the

Andrew Wilsonpatriarchy not necessarily I'm not sure how I feel about that but yeah well if you have an oppressor and they're men and you don't want men to oppress you then you are trying to strive to get rid of men oppressing you right yeah but I

Lissafeel like the male gender could also help with dismantling the patriarchy yeah I mean they they could but they would be then male feminists right yeah which we have yeah so but so

Andrew Wilsonthe entailment of feminism is to dismantle the patriarchy right yes okay are men the oppressors are men the oppressors is that the question well if women are

Audreyoppressed are the men the oppressors they are part of the oppressors yes okay men are the people in power so they're the ones that the oppressors but like she said women can also uphold that

TTS/Donationsstructure what about you yeah grid one Motorsport courts donated $200 me I am the patriarchy feminism's purpose is to destroy the nuclear family

TTS/Donationsand is anti-patriarchy feminism is the true oppression and you have all been subjects of it the patriarchy endures all right thank you thank you grid One

Brian AtlasMotorsports he is the patriarch the patriarchy uh so a couple of you answered to this question uh yes women in the United States are oppressed in uh

Brian Atlascertain ways a couple different ways uh I'm curious to learn how starting with

Lissayou um well one would be access to reproductive Health okay anything else besides that um I'm sure the rest of the

Lissaladies can add on well do you want to give me at least one more um one more would be the access to I don't know

Brian Atlashuh do women have L spes yeah wait hold on say that one more time the access to Safe spaces women have less access than men to Safe

Lissaspaces yeah what are the safe spaces that men have access to that women don't um well a space where you wouldn't be like for example at the doctors uh

Lissamen are a lot more safer than women like when a woman is unconscious she can legally get a um what's that thing called where a hysterctomy um no I don't think that is where they when you're

Lissaunconscious and they check you like a pop smear basically they're getting into your genitalia while you're unconscious they wouldn't do that to him yet that's

Andrew Wilsonone type of thing I think I've heard yes they can if you're unconscious at the doctor and you're a man and they need to fix you up

Lissathey most definitely can get into to your genitalia I don't know where you got the idea that they couldn't no not if like the issue doesn't have anything to do with your genitalia they wouldn't get into yeah but if the issue has nothing to do with your genitalia for a

Lissawoman they won't get into your genitalia you talk about my point that was my point it's yeah they can legally search it up fact check me yeah but they can legally do it for both if there's a

Lissacause to go there for whatever the medical issue is if you're UNC point but my only point was that they can do it and they do do it to women even when there is no cause I can give you a different example though which would be

Lissalike the husband's Stitch a lot of women after they get uh give birth they'll get an extra stitch on their vagina opening that makes it so that sex is more pleasureful for their husband right

Lissaafter which doesn't benefit the woman if anything and makes it a lot more complicated to feel I've never heard of I've never hang on I'm just going to assume that it's true for a second um so

Lissawhat what if what if this is requested by the woman but that's the thing it's not requested by the woman a lot of doctors do it without even asking the woman I that's dubious that's please do

Lissayou want to search up I'm sure it's it's true the you're saying that there's a majority of women I never said the word majority I said there's a good amount of women who get that it's called the husband Stitch that's without their

Brian Atlasconsent yes there's a this seems dubious I would like to hear from perhaps a nurse or someone who's involved in the healthcare field it can't be without your sure Happ this seems very dubious

Andrew Wilsonno because they're already stitching up they just add an extra Stitch it's called the husband Stitch you guys can it also doesn't happen the husband Stitch also known as a daddy Stitch is an outdated Medical Practice that

Andrew Wilsoninvolves an extra Stitch during vaginal repair after childbirth the procedure is not medically necessary um the idea behind the husband Stitch is it makes sex more pleasurable

Lissait's only available on request no it's not I know people who have had it I have ants who have had it that's why I know okay so ants are a lot older than you right yeah I never said

Andrew Wilsonthat could be possible this no longer hang on so this could be possible that it no longer a standard operating procedure even if it was for your ants yeah that's very possible that it's not as common anymore yeah the husband

Andrew WilsonStitch is RAR really performed in the United States Healthcare Providers should never perform it without a woman's consent it goes against medical ethics she just say she had a friend who's had it so that kind of I think

Andrew Wilsonthat she's not telling us the truth I have I all of my friends haven't had it oh now we have counter evidence huh did they ask for it no it has been like a

Andrew Wilsonlegal battle in between them but like that has happened and that was recent but that is OB your friend did not get the husband Stitch you're full of [ __ ]

Andrew Wilsonthere it's basically never done unless it's on request you made it up it's an anecdote that you made up you you could never demonstrate your friend had the husband's Stitch and is in a legal

Andrew Wilsonbattle if you could do you know what I'll tell what if you can demonstrate that you have a friend that you know who had the husband Stitch against their will I'll send you $250 right now call

Laurenyour friend up I will not do I don't need to prove that but that's just odd I have a question I'm wondering what Andrew and Brian like what you guys think about the

Brian Atlaspatriarchy well hold on I'm not done with my question so we can perhaps answer that later but uh I did want to go around so you gave two examples of

Brian Atlashow women are oppressed yeah um can you give any other any examples of how women are oppressed I think in

Sophiaworkspaces sometimes at school um I feel like it's just like I'm not sure if it's like how do

Sophiahow can I put this into words like the oppression of um just like sometimes this like speech like being having like fear of speaking up because you don't

Sophiaknow how people react keeping quiet in like work spaces things like that like how the system has like pretty much like

Sophiacreated this I don't know like how do I say this like this like sphere this like kind of bubble like pushes us down more

Sophiathan men I feel like it's not encouraging to women to like step up sometimes and like just be more open in things I feel like by the way Brian I want to let you know just an update on

Andrew Wilsonthis conducting the husband Stitch is considered malpractice all doctors other healthcare workers can be sued for performing this surgery it's considered malpractice literally considered

Andrew Wilsonmalpractice it is not a thing which women are subject to even with consent it would be malpractice unless it's with specifically a woman's consent which in

Brian Atlasthat case why would they have a problem with it right okay um so women feeling like they can't openly

Brian Atlasspeak or that would be oppression but that would be how you feel like I'm looking for something a bit more

Sophia[Music]

Brian Atlasconcrete I could also change the question a little bit what is a right that men have that women

Brian Atlasdon't because I mean feminism fights for women's rights it's not clear to me if there's any rights that men have that women don't I don't think it's necessar necessarily

Laurenrights I think it's more of like being treated equally are women not treated equally not really could I answer this or I speak on it so I looked at I was researching about the origins of

Laurenpatriarchy which is a system so patriarchy it started back when they were making civilization and men who had well people who had the most wealth were people who could get the most food and

Laurenthat was men so men were able to men have a faster metabolism no no no well the men were getting the most food for their for their civilization so they were getting the most wealth I I have it

Laurenon my phone they still are yeah I know they still are I know yeah I'm just so I'm just saying just let me finish my point so patriarchy is a system that's been started ever since then but feminism is sort of like the way to

Laurencatch up so back in the day women could not vote women could not do a lot of the neither could men for the vast majority of all human history neither men or women could vote

Brian Atlasthat's correct there's a very very small comparatively speaking a very small portion of History where men were able to vote and women weren't but if you look at the whole scale of human history

Brian Atlasneither people could vote okay it would be it would either be uh you would have a monarch or there would be like uh this uh royalty um or you there was a period

Laurenwhere it'd be propert property owners sure okay so in the United States um the first feminist was like Abigail Adams She said if we don't get the same rights like a rebellion is going to happen

Laurenbasically she wrote that to her husband and so Fe patriarchy is a system feminism is like a movement so I do think that Fe the feminists in the past have done a lot and we've gotten a lot

Andrew Wilsonof our rights and they're they're Bound by law that was not the first feminist at all not even close no also PL was the one who said

Andrew Wilsonwasn't either but hang on let me correct this D directly contradicted this when you're talking about the first wave feminist which came out of Russia especially their idea was I was talking about in the United States and I could

Laurenback that up by research I was talking about in the United States by multiple research I could back that up that Abigail Adam was a first person that's not even

Laurentrue point just make my point is is that patriarchy is a system feminism is a movement so feminism has caught like females up to males to a certain point but there's still underlying things that

Laurenare still happening and like I don't think that females are oppressed I don't call myself a feminist I think that we have gained all our our same rights but I do think that patriarchy is still a

Brian Atlassystem that still has its underlying layers in the way that we govern ourselves I do want to just point out one thing when it came to the right to vote and this is speaking within the United States only a 50-year period

Brian Atlaspassed between the ratification of the 15th Amendment which gave all men the right to vote in 1870 and the 19th amendment in 1920 so 50 years there's only a 50 years in America that all men

Brian Atlascould vote that women could not Jeremy says do you know how many DV shelters are accessible to men in US zero we need to bridge the gap to make progress I don't want my daughter to live in a

Brian Atlasworld like this uh Plato he F Plato he dead I'm assuming okay uh all right thank you Jeremy appreciate that really quick um just going around the table uh

Brian AtlasI think I was asking the question how are women oppressed um can I ask a question okay what's your motive in

Andrew Wilsonasking us this uh because we want to probe the worldview to see if we have potential disagreements with your worldview okay I mean I think it's

Audreypretty obvious that at least you and I don't agree on a lot of things but that's fine um I would say that the the traditional view of feminism that many people have

Audreythat the ideaas is of movement for for women to be have the same rights to have the to be viewed as equal to men in the eyes of society would be like a pretty

Audreygeneric um view of feminism correct me if I'm wrong um I think that I saw a one of those comments pop up on the screen that was talking about um how men don't

Audreyhave access to I think it was DV shs I think they made domestic violence yep um and I think that's a really good point I think that there's plenty of ways that men I think oppressed would be

Audreya strong word to use considering that we're looking at this in the context of the patriarchy but I would say that there's plenty of ways that men are underrepresented and that men could use a little bit of help in maybe the eyes

Audreyof society or the law or however you want to say it in terms of um gender roles in society I think that there's Fair expectations that are placed on men and women as well I think that women

Brian Atlashave been systematically oppressed for since the beginning of time um if you want to argue with me on that go I I could argue on that I could argue with you on why would you argue with me on

Brian Atlasthat you well well you're because the the whole thing with feminism is it's it's trying to look at the issues that women have

Brian Atlasand I think for the longest period of time uh men didn't really take a thorough analysis of the ways in which they were disadvantaged but feminism has sort of opened the floodgates because

Brian Atlaswhen you start looking at okay well here's the way that us women have it worse and men are to blame by the way and it's men's fault then men are going to start to want to make to assert

Brian Atlaspotential counter claims to your positions and then men are going to start to look and say well if we're going to start to look at everything through this prism this lens of gender then we're going to also look because

Brian Atlasfeminism is playing a comparison game it's saying women have it worse than men so if you put that out there into The Ether into the universe it then opens up men to say well hold on let's actually

Brian Atlasdo an analysis on the ways in which we don't have it so great so for example I mean you often hear things about the wage Gap Reproductive Rights although that doesn't really occur to me to be a

Brian Atlasgender thing because men have absolutely zero Reproductive Rights women have far more Reproductive Rights compared to men but you start looking at these things and then men can start looking at okay

TTS/Donationswell what are the sort of uh gendered negative life outcomes for men and we look at things like grid One Motorsports donated $200 feminists have been supporting the

TTS/Donationsfact that men are better women than actual women are how can you support this women are being oppressed by women who hate men and want the world to burn

Brian Atlasbetter so just to finish my point here so thank you good one appreciate it so if Men start to actually make an analysis of the way the negative life outcomes that they have you can look at

Brian Atlasfor example men are more likely to delete themselves they're less likely to get higher education they're less likely to go to college you go to UCSB right what's the gender breakdown there I think it's probably 6040 now back in the

Brian Atlasday it was evidence of sexism that there were more men going to University than women now that's completely flip-flopped there's more women going to universities than men are you prepared to argue that that that that's evidence of sexism

Brian Atlastowards men I would suspect not because anytime women become uh over represented in some area that is still equality in the eyes of women it's never inequality

Brian Atlasif it's 80% of women are in this desirable workfield that's never viewed as for sexist reasons towards men there's some other examples here men are they're more likely to die in war they're forced into war they're more

Brian Atlaslikely to die on the job they're more likely to be incarcerated they're more likely to be victims of police misconduct and police killings they're more likely to be homeless there's a whole bunch of other scenarios and in

Brian Atlasfact immediately upon birth if we look at within the first uh 24 hours of birth men are immediately uh have their genitals mutilated that's an instant are

Audreyyou talking about circumcision yeah yeah yeah I mean you you laugh at it but it actually is a barbaric practice um sure you're right haven't that way before but yeah most women are

Brian Atlasthe ones who are opting to have their male Sons uh have their genitals mutilated but um there's all kinds of May we'll call that the mother's Stitch maybe almost almost all men in the

Brian AtlasUnited States have have a circumcision and the reasons are dubious at best um I'm not in favor of it but I'm not really we don't have to get into a circumcision conversation so I mean uh I

Lissamean didn't that initiate like a lot of the things you mentioned are kind of initiated by men though right I mean not the circumcision thing but um so women were the ones that first started circumcision it's from the Bible

Brian Atlaswell actually you know what's funny when it comes to female genital mutilation in some of these other countries it's not something that's in the US but it's actually women that tend to uphold that specific tradition against other women

Brian Atlasso as your AR you're about to make a but it's men's fault argument so is it are they less victims because the perpetrator of the the of this is because they're men no I wasn't about to

Lissasay that I was I feel like it's like the opposite like women will like remember how I mentioned that earlier that woman's uphold the patriarchy like that kind of goes with my point like if a

Brian Atlaswoman is um mutilating another woman's genitalia it's because of like patriarchy at the end of the day it's not wait it's it's okay I anyways um so

Brian Atlasto kind of put the final point in what I was saying here uh I'm actually prepared to just disregard actually most of my points that I made and focus in on just one so you said from the beginning of

Audreytime women have been oppressed and Men haven't oh I knew you were going to bring up this one I okay that was a really big blanket statement that you could probably poke holes in all you wanted

Audreyum I think that sure maybe that was a bit of like an absolute um I think that the issues that women face in society

Audreyand you're right right this whole idea of feminism is exists in this comparative to men who has it worse and I think that there is a lot of issues

Audreywith like the modern take of feminism I think that it's it hasn't gone too far I would never say that but I think that we've lost sight of really what the goal was supposed to be and that it should be

Audreya basis of equity and not equality um and and really what are the rules what are the things that are facing men what are the issues that are facing women and how can we support both it's not in a

Brian Atlasmatter of putting down men to bring up women or saying that all men suck and trying to vilify one gender or the other well let's just go back to the bear thing you guys all would rather be in a forest alone with a bear than with a man

Brian Atlasmost not all of you but most of you answered that way isn't that sort of vilifying men to say that the any given random man is more dangerous than a bear I think after our hour and a half

Audreyconversation um I reconsidered the way that I was looking at um the scenario and I wouldn't necessarily use the same logic that

Brian AtlasAndrew was talking about um now I think maybe I would reconsider my answer okay I'll just say one last thing then um so just going back all throughout

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