Man vs. Bear DEBATE! Andrew Wilson! Genghis Khan BETA MALE? E-GIRLS! ( ° °) | Dating Talk #158

Date: 2024-05-06

Duration: 6h 49m

Guests

Brian Atlas

NNatalia Taylor >

AAli Hardesty >

MMadison (DT164)>

AAndrew Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_02Madison(guest)

SPEAKER_03Natalia Taylor(guest)

SPEAKER_04Ali Hardesty(guest)

SPEAKER_05Nicole(guest)

SPEAKER_07Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_10Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_11Demi Hawks(guest)

SPEAKER_12Morgan(guest)

SPEAKER_13Aspen(guest)

Key Moments

QuoteBrian Atlas opens show intro

“welcome to the whatever dating Talk podcast where we try to make sense of the modern dating hellscape”

OtherNatalia Taylor introduces herself as a traditional model

“hi I'm Natalia Taylor I'm 27 I'm from the Coachella Valley and I'm a traditional model and a cashier at a gift shop”

OtherDemi Hawks introduces herself as a porn star (returning guest)

“uh I'm Demi Hawks I'm 24 and I live in Los Angeles and I'm a porn star welcome back”

OtherMorgan reveals she quit OnlyFans after encountering the Whatever podcast

“I will say your podcast did help solidify that decision... I was already like getting out of it but after coming into contact with the podcast it definitely solidified”

ControversyAndrew Wilson argues pornography is semantically identical to prostitution

“if you make the claim that people who have sexual intercourse for money are prostitutes and you're having sexual intercourse for money this would make you a what — that would make me a prostitute”

ControversyBrian states he would not take a bullet for a girlfriend or wife

“I would not be willing in that scenario to take a bullet for her I would not die for my girlfriend or wife”

ControversyAndrew Wilson cites Ephesians 5:22 on wifely submission to justify Brian's position

“wives submit yourselves unto your own husbands as unto the Lord for the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church”

OtherNatalia shares she submitted to her husband before attraction developed — heard God's voice

“I heard God tell me this is your husband submit to him... I knew that the way that he appeared during that time wasn't how he would always be and that he would grow into the man that he was meant to be”

OtherMan vs Bear debate introduced — would you rather be stuck in the woods with a man or a bear?

“the question is would you rather be stuck in the woods with a man or a bear”

ControversyDemi explains bears are more predictable than unknown men; Andrew challenges her promiscuity contradiction

“a man that I don't know could be very unpredictable and a bear like it can be unpredictable but if you leave Bears alone they will more likely leave you”

OtherRatings round begins — Brian asks panel to rate own looks 1-10

“Stiffler ask everyone to rate their looks on a scale of 1 to 10 start with you”

OtherNatalia discloses drug addiction, psychosis, and husband's drug dealing backstory

“I was addicted to weed cocaine Molly um and hallucinogens... I went into a full-blown psychosis for over a year”

OtherNicole's condom cup story — ex cheated in her apartment

“I go back into my room my bed and there's a cup with a condom wrapper inside of it”

ControversyAndrew Wilson's debate-book recommendations after Gerald's $600 super chat

“Story of Philosophy by Will Durant... A World Without Men by Aaron Clarey... Dogmatic Theology by Losskey... Terry Goodkind fiction... Lord of the Rings”

OtherBrian reveals Sadia Khan cancelled appearance over travel compensation dispute

“she was supposed to be the guest on the show today... the big crux of it was she was already planning to be in LA we're 2 hours north she wanted to get us to pay for an Uber there and back and then hotel”

OtherEnd-of-show body count round: Demi 100+, Ali 100-200, Natalia under 10, Aspen under 10, Morgan teens, Madison ~2-3

“lost count forever ago in the hundreds no like over 100 that's the number for the day boys and girls”

Topics Discussed

Intro & 1M Clips Channel Plaque Unboxing

Brian opens the show with announcements and unboxes YouTube 1M subscriber plaque for the Whatever Clips channel.

Guest introductions

All guests introduce themselves: name, age, location, occupation. Includes brief discussion of traditional vs. OnlyFans modeling, Demi's porn career, Morgan quitting OnlyFans after the show, Natalia's YouTube channel, Andrew Wilson's Crucible channel and Miami beef with Wes Watson.

Relationship statuses

Each guest describes current relationship status. Demi discusses building first-ever roster. Ali describes meeting ex at a foursome. Natalia describes meeting husband during recovery. Nicole describes meeting current boyfriend Will (ex's former best friend). Demi's pornography vs. prostitution semantics debate with Andrew Wilson.

Should a man take a bullet for a woman?

Brian states he would not take a bullet for a girlfriend or wife, but would for his children. Panel goes around the table. Andrew Wilson debates from Eastern Orthodox ethics: submission must precede sacrifice. Natalia argues from Biblical equality. Discussion extends to Genghis Khan, alpha/beta framing, and ecclesiastical authority in marriage. Champagne pop when viewer Gerald sends $600.

Biblical submission in marriage

Andrew Wilson cites Ephesians 5:22 on wifely submission. Natalia (married) shares she submitted to her husband before attraction developed; husband grew into the role. Debate on whether submission is prerequisite for male sacrifice. Andrew argues church community/shame mechanisms prevent arbitrary divorce.

Man vs. Bear debate

Viral TikTok/hypothetical question: would you rather be alone in the woods with a man or a bear? Most panel chose 'man'. Only Demi (and briefly Andrew) chose 'bear'. Brian argues the choice is social signaling about distrust of men. Andrew presents reframed versions (bathroom, room, 10 men vs 10 bears). Discussion of women's distrust of men, domestic violence stats, correlation of OnlyFans careers with male distrust.

Trust of men, promiscuity, and OnlyFans

Andrew presses Demi on contradiction: wants to be more promiscuous but chose bear over man. Demi argues she only has sex with men in the industry she knows. Discussion of sample size from sex work leading to male distrust. Ali and Demi identified as the two who said 'bear' — both in sex work.

Ratings round

Brian asks panel to rate their own looks 1-10. Self-ratings given: Natalia 6.9, Nicole 7, Demi 10, Ali 5.5, Morgan 7, Brian ~5 (self-stated). Andrew jokingly rated himself 4 in Demi's voice.

Pre-show notes & guest stories

Brian reads pre-show notes. Natalia's drug addiction/psychosis/husband backstory. Nicole's condom cup story (ex cheated in her apartment). Demi's marketable skills discussion. Ali's orgy-meeting-ex backstory. Morgan's child support negotiation. Andrew's book recommendations. Discussion on OnlyFans backup plans if EMP or ban.

Show wrap-up and Sadia Khan story

Brian discloses Sadia Khan (dating coach/psychologist) was originally booked for the episode but cancelled over travel compensation dispute (Uber + hotel from LA). Brian offered a carpool; she declined. He says she was the B-side. Rachel Wilson (Andrew's wife) confirmed as upcoming guest. Twitch raid to 'Grandma' (82yo World of Warcraft player). Body count round at end.

Transcript

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Brian Atlashung out with him but you only went on so few dates so it could have only been what one or two times three times okay whatever I mean we can just make some assumptions based

Brian Atlasoff the fact that you only hold a couple times I don't I don't I don't have any objections if you [ __ ] him a 100 times I don't care um I guess I'm just trying

Brian Atlasto get the sense of like because you okay I like why did this determination

Brian Atlasoccur like after you hooked up with him that's my confus I think because I so I think I knew the whole time I just

Aspenchose to give in you chose to give in I chose to give in and sleep with them just feeling weak and horny like was there a

Aspenreason yeah well when you're when you're single for so long and you finally like somebody it's like

Natalia TaylorI you you know it's diff ult it's it's really hard like you give in to yourself maybe because like obviously that's a commitment you made to yourself to be

Aspencelibate while you're well yeah and I just understand that like man I really value this aspect of my life and I don't that's not something I just want to like give to people that's not something I

Brian Atlasdon't want to know a bunch of people in that way so and then shortly after having you know you guys hooked up for the first one or two or three times

Brian Atlaswhatever uh you ended things with him correct yeah Oh you mean like just you ended things with him yeah it's interesting women often complain that men like [ __ ] them and then just leave

Aspenbut I mean you basically did that he would have been comfortable with whatever like sure but I'm but I'm not you did [ __ ] him and then just walk

Aspenthough women do that [ __ ] too I'm just it's interesting but I if really liked you he really liked you and then you [ __ ] him and then I felt like I wasn't getting anywhere in the relationship

Aspenwith him like all right like met him right I had known him for a few I had been hanging with him for a few months okay you weren't getting anywhere um did you ask for to be exclusive no I didn't ask that did you

Brian Atlasask for relationship no so what should I have done well I don't know all the details of your relation should have done anything because guy that I'm going to end up with like point and simple well hold on but you

Brian Atlassaid he's come back into the picture a couple times and the last time you entertained him was a a month ago yeah that's because I was being but then he flaked on you I know so you're planning

Brian Atlasto God he did but you're planning to go on the date with him I was yeah well hold on so you just to be clear you dated him two years ago you broke your your five-year celibacy for

Brian Atlashim you made the determination after having slept with him that this wasn't the guy for you there wasn't shared values yeah there's a lot of mistakes but so why are you you made the determination already he's not a

Brian AtlasChristian you've made that determination why continue entertaining him if he's not a Christian because if that's such a deal breaker lonely because I wanted I I

Aspenliked him I enjoyed him as a person and so it's like I'm not saying that it was right I'm not saying that it was right at all like it was wrong it didn't it wasn't logical either it was my emotions

Aspenthat were talking and I was was giving into those not not giving into what I know to be true what I know about myself what I want for myself like I gave

Aspenin plain and simple and it was and it was like are you on dating apps at all absolutely not ever on dating yeah no I actually think that Tinder blocked me cuz I would

Aspenlike BL cuz I would like download it and then I would delete it and then I would download and just get so disappointed or like traumatized and then uh and then I would be like oh my gosh like all right

Brian AtlasI shouldn't be afraid to like go on here and go on these dating apps and then I'm like this is the worst so is it it it is it a must that the guy you date has to be Christian yeah it it just wouldn't

Brian Atlaswork okay it wouldn't work um you you were celibate though for almost well seven years total for 5

Brian Atlasyears there was a break and then you've been celibate for 2 years so um why are you finding it difficult to uh find somebody I mean that's to be single for

Brian Atlasessentially s years uh you know you're an attractive girl uh do you think your standards are too high do you feel like you still have feelings for your first guy no it's all gone yeah it's okay took

Aspentook a lot of work but yeah it's gone okay so why like are just no guys hitting on you um no it's actually kind of funny because I have a date tomorrow

Aspenmaybe I might have a date tomorrow and then wait hold on you have a date tomorrow yeah is here in Sant Barbara nope wait so you're flying back so this

Aspenis really cute this is really cute so he offered so he actually saw me on the first podcast okay and somebody sent it to me I didn't know him he didn't like

Aspenfind me I have a friend who sent him the show and he said to me not meeting you wasn't an option and then he has like a

Aspenconnection to uh move some flight around and so he has offered which I don't even know so I don't know when I'm flying out

Aspentomorrow but he has offered to get me a new flight from LA to Seattle and I'll have a long he lives in Seattle I live in Eastern Washington and so he's

Aspenoffered to like reroute that so he can take me on a date when I get to Seattle so if if if it's really cute to fly out to see him tomorrow yeah wait how long have you been cuz you were on the show

Aspenlike a year ago MH uh when did he initially message you oh this happened like within a week this is like this is fresh this is new like a week ago yeah like a week ago I met him I met him he

Aspencame down you already met him yeah he came down to um my hometown I don't want to share it sure he came down to my hometown and um yeah I met him nice okay

Natalia Taylorand we've talked on the phone a couple times I have a question um if I may the boyfriend that you were with for 5 years M and the one like a while ago was he a

Natalia TaylorChristian the one that cheated on you or did he identify as he identified as one okay so does he sound like one no he doesn't he wasn't one so that was my question so if if you were dating like

Natalia Tayloryou describe two different people one cheated on you treated you like crap but identified as a Christian the other one had a seemingly normal personality just wasn't really peing your interest but

Natalia Taylordidn't identify as a Christian I mean out of those two it seemed like you were willing to work more on the first relationship even though he cheated on you well I also think that he was my

Aspenfirst love you were very young right yeah I was like 17 yeah like I lost my virginity to him like I was tied to that gu can you scoot your hold on let me

Natalia Taylormake some adjustments here hold on no that's good try to speak there go ahead and the reason I ask is just because there's so many people I guess that identify as a Christian but their

Brian Atlasactions say otherwise so that's why I asked mhm all right I got to move it on Gustavo what about you see

Morganbuo yeah what about you uh my longest relationship uh maybe a little bit longer than a year and a half between a year and a half and two years um and

Morgancurrently single very single um very single right now and have been single for about 2 years all right

Brian Atlassingle for 2 years years um and you want to be single sorry what was your longest relationship uh between a year and a half and two years two

Brian Atlasyears okay uh and the relationship that ended two years ago you've been single for two years was that the two-year one um no no

Morganokay that one actually was almost so there was a term that one of your I think oh Alpha Widow yes is that it I I realized that I think I had issue going on can you why don't you tell us

Morganabout that yeah um similar so I understand um My First Love met in high school

Morganum uh known him for almost 15 years uh had a really really hard time dating other people because it took me a long time to even realize this um I was very

Morganvery hung up on him cuz we kind of would date on and off like we date for like a year and then we break up and not talk for like a year or two and then we get back together together and then we did that probably three or four times this is the guy this years this is not the

Morgantwo-year guy no okay this is a past past he's the most recent one oh wait he's the most recent he he's the most recent

Morganmy longest though was before was before him my longest was um throughout the the

Brian Atlason and off time but he is my most recent ex okay and so why why do you categorize this as you being Alpha widowed and

Morganexplain that what your sense of that is to the uh viewers well I think the person who had brought it up on the panel last said it was kind of like when you're hung up on a

Morgancertain ex or person you've been with and it like kind of makes it impossible for you to date um at least that's what I took from it and that's what I feel like happened to me like I could meet somebody and I would just look for

Morganproblems in them because I would comparing them to him um so yeah like so I've been single like I said I've been single for two years but about a year ago I guess I was kind of in like it we

Morganweren't boyfriend girlfriend but we were seeing each other um but yeah that didn't work out but that wasn't I think due to my ex that was part of the reason

Morganbut also he was a little bit too fem feminine why did the the relationship with Alpha guy why did that one break up uh many reasons

Morganum I think maybe distance played a part into it I think also I was kind of a a-hole to him when we were in high school that probably played into

Morganit um I think also so another fun fact I have a child he has two two

Morganchildren um so there was some baby mama drama on his side that also oh cause some issues um you have a child from him

Brian Atlasnot from him no no a different uh long time ago how how old's your kid he will be 10 next month and you're 28 right and I will be 29 next month so you had you

Morganhad him when you were 18 19 had him on my 19th birthday you guys share a birthday okay well I mean so technically he's he was

Brian AtlasBor I'm June 21st he was born June 22nd at 12:34 a.m. okay oh my God working uh couple uh I I don't know do

Morganyou have a lucky you tattoo somewhere yes I do where where is that don't show us don't show us no I wasn't going to it's right here where you guys above your Hua it's above my

Demi Hawksokay I saw it on your Instagram uh I kind of forgot about that pain wise like how is that spot to get tattooed that was probably my worst tattoo really yes theone there lucky you

Morganis it incursive yes cursive yes why does that matter to you it's very important it is in did you see the tattoo if you saw it on our Instagram he probably doesn't remember he wants to paint a picture see the yeah I saw it I saw

Brian Atlasyou're trying to describe it though try I saw it on Instagram and uh so what I'm curious like what's the meaning there is actually okay

Morganso sorry Dad um no honestly the the main reason I got it as dumb as it is is I used to like really be into Harley Quinn and Harley Quinn has the tattoo oh she

Andrew Wilsonhas that same tattoo yeah where is it on her body same spot oh above same spot inspiration yeah that's cute how old were you when you got it oh God okay

Andrew Wilsonwell so so two things right just want to let you know oh yeah he's here just how bad the tattoo actually is is because that's not canon it's not even Harley Quinn Canon so you fell for a

Andrew Wilsonnon-canonical uh Harley Quinn and then replicated a non-canonical tattoo to so that's like a double fail right that's

Morgana I trust me my my father's let me know fathers oh Father father sorry no

Brian Atlasfather only one I think so um uh okay hold on guys I think we missed

Natalia Taylora uh one sec guys we have a senior Muffin Top uh Natalia can can I have you read read this we'll have you read some of these chats I found out my ex was

Natalia Taylornever worried about four dogs she left me to have a relationship with her ex and immediately got knocked up by him

Natalia Taylorthen she told him to quit his job and he did then she quit her job and they are letting their cars get repoed back to

Natalia Taylormy passport bro life what is that what what

Brian Atlasthere's also no punctuation in the whole sentence I think he's just saying bro life like well have you heard of passport Bros senior Muffin Top those are like the guys you dodged a bullet

Nicolebro you you dodged a how that have to do with passport you you dodged you dodged a bullet senior Muffin Top wait but what

Brian Atlasis the four dogs don't worry yeah what happened to the dog got dogs uh Victor Ramah Hawk you sent in Australian 100 unfortunately we lost it so I'm just I

Brian Atlasapologize we're just going to read it he just says how do you talk to these people without losing IQ points um so there's that uh it's a good question I don't know I

Nicoledon't know uh this we got a good panel you have enough to we don't know that he hasn't lost IQ points we have a good panel um and then I'm going to pull up too you can hide that what is your IQ can I have you read this please can just

Natalia Taylorread this while it's up please which one the red one just the one on the screen how these girls it's mindboggling how these girls can sit here and say how

Natalia Taylorthey have o do blank or orgies but want to find a good guy like hey I just took four roosters at one time where are all the good guys you can reshow you can

Ali Hardestyshow where are all the good guys just leave it up um any for those of you who do o any thoughts on that I just want to clarify not that it matters and zero

Ali Hardestyjudgment I think you're a badass but I don't actually do porn on my only fans so I do like stuff yeah SOLO content but I don't do boy girl I did not film those orgies or if they were filmed they were not ever sold or posted online you never

Demi Hawksdid BG though not that it makes it difference but I just wanted to put that in there okay yeah I mean it's an interesting question do you want to weigh in on this I mean me specifically

Demi HawksI'm not looking for a man could or otherwise you know it's more about like at some point I might I'm really learning to enjoy my own company right now just focusing on myself and my work

Andrew Wilsonand yeah also I just want to say I would hope that I mean that's probably a good skill to start developing now right what is being being able to

Demi Hawksenjoying your own company yeah honestly and like plus I know plenty of performers in the industry who are happily married many are married to other performers so there's not like you

Demi Hawksknow that like do you want to get married is that a goal you have I I I maybe you know it's like somebody would really have to like improve upon

Demi Hawkson my life by myself it's not so much as like competing with other men and competing with like past men I've been with it's like do I like being with you more than I like being with just me and

Brian Atlasright now I really like being with just me I mean I think they can right yeah I think they can find a partner I do think there is like some Savage I think what

Brian AtlasI'm trying to understand here is kind of the demands that women who are engaged in these sort of uh Fields is there's still like this demand for traditional

Brian Atlastreatment from men even though they're as far as tradition like as far as they can be from being traditional women themselves so I mean uh I don't think it

Brian Atlasprecludes them from having being able to find a partner but I do think the issue is is there's like still this well I want a guy to be chivalrous and

Brian Atlastraditional but I want to be a modern woman and do sex work and have [ __ ] other men but you have to be a traditional man that's where it kind of I don't feel that way confuses me yeah I don't feel want guy to pay on the first date oh they don't have to I've been

Ali Hardestywith people where I paid for everything I've been with guys where they paid for everything or something and that's totally fine yeah I paid for a date once and he hated it oh okay did he feel like emasculated maybe I don't know I I was

Aspenlike trying to do like a kind gesture like oh you've taken me on like a few days like anyway uh Natalia can I have you read this

Natalia Taylorone why don't the eggs tell jokes they are afraid to crack up panel one thing you can do now to improve your future go

Brian Atlasis this we'll do it it's just totally like not dating related but give me a quick answer if you can dating related yeah

Brian Atlasyeah keep going to therapy that's able answer keep why is that terrible hold on guys guys guys we'll start with you we'll go around the table go ahead um I

Natalia Taylorwould say to continue improving my marriage just to keep communication good and keep God in the middle of my marriage I think that's how I continue to find more in my husband every day

Nicolethat I'm with him in making Investments financially yeah I was going to say the same thing smart girl uh therapy in the gym

MorganI feel like I want to say I don't know sorry I don't just skip me go ahead me yeah uh probably working on having a little bit more self

Andrew Wilsondiscipline AG okay all right cool cool cool cool any any any any chance any of you would say slowing down on

Brian Atlaspromiscuity and porn work maybe I want to get more promiscuous actually what okay appreciate it appreciate it

Ali Hardestythank you I'm celibate at the moment so she's working on that right now since the breakup I just have no intention on having how long have you been cated I mean like 3 weeks but like

Brian AtlasI have no interest in dating or anything of the sort okay all right well before we get into the main topic of today's

Brian Atlasshow which is the viral man vers bear debate before we get into that we're going to go around the table we're going to do a segment

Brian Atlascalled I haven't named the segment yet actually but uh we're going to have the girls now I know some of you are in relationships but be good sports and just uh assume you were not in a relationship we're going to have you

Brian Atlasguys go through some Bumble profiles each of you get 20 swipes you each get 20 swipes that's going to take forever it'll be quick it'll be F it'll be yes or no so yes or no we're going to show

Brian Atlasyou the profiles uh we have Bumble pulled up yes sir and Nick could you put us he's cute I like his name so we're going to

Brian Atlasstart with with with me no no no no no no no no no no no no no yeah right Pig right Pig just like last time okay so how does this work I just say if he's

Natalia Taylorcute or not or so just a yes or no are these real profiles yeah yeah yes or no no

Natalia Taylorno no yes yes wait didn't you say yes

Natalia Taylorno no no that's a child

Brian Atlasno Meda okay just count 20 no yes no

Natalia Tayloryes no yes okay no two or three what am I at no

Natalia Taylorthat's it okay okay now we're going to you oh that one looks like my husband okay yeah this is all you have just one

Madisonphoto speaking to the mic also when you say yes or no uh yes yes

Nicolecuz the dog yes yes no no yes no um that kind of looks like my

Nicoleboyfriend so yes ofes look like oh my God it's not himp no not him no imagine if

Nicoleit that would be crazy no yeah um

Nicoleno I can't even see that guy no so dark no okay next person Demi no Horse

Demi Hawksno no no no which no which one why do they do

Demi Hawksthat maybe yeah no no which one with the multiples come on guys no it's always the least attractive one too it's never the one

Demi Hawksyou hope he's cute he's I wish I could see I would say yes is that that's so cool you know no no we can't see their age I can't see

Demi Hawksanything I know like that's a factor for me that one's a yes no cuz who which one that's no that's 20 we have like four more okay Ally your turn my turn well

Demi Hawkshuh oh no like no to the bad mirror selfie yes I didn't count 20 yes to that guy know that me yeah no

Ali Hardestynow okay yeah I mess that's 20 and then we'll move on yeah oh okay now yes cuz the background yes cuz he looks tall yes cuz

Ali Hardestythe dog I'm just positive no I don't know who he is which one no he looks angry nope m photo is so disturbing I don't like how

Ali Hardestyhe's touching down there so yeah like what where's that hand um I don't know if they're straight yeah no no I don't know why he's on the

Ali Hardestyfloor I can't even see him no no I don't know who he is I someone donated money do you want me to read it no no can't even see his

Ali Hardestyface no um sure he likes that what's up with the back of their heads or I can't tell who he

Ali Hardestyis he's cute yeah he's okay yeah last one

Aspensure

Aspenyeah no no no oh no it's like John no no he didn't no

Aspenyes NOS no no no no no just blurry

Aspenno yes I don't know maybe yeah I probably would yeah I probably would something about mullets no last one no

Morganme no no I can't really see his face that good so no

Morganno no yeah he's cute yeah no I know him no

Morganyeah yeah no the way you C no

Morganno no if he's the one with a hat then yes uh no this game is so funny

Madisonno no no last one no no okay you want me to do it do oh no okay

Madisonno no no no no racist no

Madisonno no maybe hiding no obviously not

Madisonno no no no no no

Aspenno I lost count I think I have like four more three no I can't see his face but maybe he cute though that guy you can't even see that

Aspenbody is that it that was crazy that's it that's so that's those are the ones we swiped yes on like barely any and we didn't even get to see their profiles cuz if a lot of those guys sounded like overwhelmingly no but what

Demi Hawkswhat's what are you saying I'm just saying cuz like it' be even less cuz if I looked at their profile I looked at more photos think you disqualify them even more yeah I think I would some of them I feel like I don't know it could have helped them like cuz the the first

Demi Hawksphoto would be like a group photo or like something back lit something where you can't really see their face and it's like just circle yourself how do I how do I them out put the smiley faces on other people or something

Natalia Taylorlike all right I'm going to pull this up uh Natalia can I have you read this one for the women do o or sex work how would you explain it to your children should you want any why you're naked all over

Demi Hawksthe Internet you set them up for failure bullying mental problems Etc you guys want to respond to that real quick you can go first okay I've never wanted kids I thought really like hard when I

Demi Hawksstarted doing sex work online about what that would do to my digital footprint and things like that I know a lot of people you know who do have kids and there's you know age appropriate ways to

Demi Hawksexplain it to your kids like you wouldn't tell a toddler like oh yeah like Mommy takes dick for money like no but um yeah it's it's just a job and I think

Demi Hawksit it could be beneficial potentially like as the you know to grow up and learn about sex work as work and what safe sex practices are and also to learn like hey like your digital footprint

Andrew Wilsonnever goes away assuming for a second that you did have a little Stephanie would you would you and little Stephanie

Andrew Wilsoncame to you at um 17 and said that that she had aspirations to follow in your footsteps and do pornography for a living because of how much money she saw Mommy make from that would you be

Demi Hawksencouraging of that or would you discourage it I would encourage her especially at 17 to think long long and hard about that because you know I was

Demi Hawksrealistic when I got into it that there's that digital footprint man like it never goes away it does affect your future opportunities and don't get into it for okay so she's thought about it right she she went and had a good think

Andrew Wilsonnow she's 19 years old she thought about it for 2 years she said mom look I just absolutely have to go out and take that D for money because it makes so much of it um what do you what do you say to Stephanie you going to support Stephanie

Demi Hawksand all of her would you give her your contact cards you think your old contact cards I might feel I mean honestly I'm I'm honestly curious about this um you know if she really seriously wants to do

Demi Hawksthis and understands that once you're in it you're in it and it's not smart to do it for like oh I'll do it for a couple years when I'm young and then I'll I'll leave like that's not realistic and she knows that it's going to follow her around forever and it's something that

Demi Hawksif she wants to do she should really commit to then yeah absolutely go for it like I would be such a hypocrite to say not to do it because well you wouldn't be a hypocrite it wouldn't be a hypocrisy to tell her not to do it you

Andrew Wilsonengage in an activity so like for instance if my if uh a six-year-old my six-year-old son came to me and was like hey Dad give me one of those maros and I said no would I be a hypocrite no that's but that's a

Andrew Wilsonsix-year-old well but that's not that's not a 19yearold who's making a 20-year-old if my 20-year-old came came over to me let's say and said hey let me have one of those smokes and I said no it's bad for you does that make me a

Demi Hawkshypocrite in your worldview doesn't make you a hypocrite but I wouldn't say porn's bad for you the way that like cigarettes are bad for you now I smoke cigarettes too but um you know like one

Demi Hawkswill one will give you cancer it will has all these Health uh detriments that have been long long recorded and um yeah but that's not my question my my

Andrew Wilsonquestion isn't whether or not cigarette smoking is bad for you in comparison to pornography My question is are you saying that it would make a person a hypocrite if they smoked and told other people that smoking was bad for them how

Demi Hawkswould that be hypocrisy okay um I don't think that was your original question though your original question was would I encourage like uh like if I had I don't think well I don't think

Andrew Wilsondrawing this the comparison hang hang on hang on before before we go off into like a bunch of prattle let's go back into what and before we go into a bunch of prattle let's move back okay so how

Andrew Wilsonthis conversation went was you said no I couldn't say that to her because I'd be a hypocrite and so I said well wait a second if that that's true then that's like saying that I'd be a hypocrite if I told someone hey smoking cigarettes is

Demi Hawksbad for your health and I'm not going to give you one uh even though I smoke are you saying that's hypocrisy because that doesn't make any sense to me porn's not bad for your health though and as like

Andrew Wilsonan of age what do you think the HPV rates are for porn stars I'm sorry what what are the HPV rates for horn porn stars do you know what are the rates The increased rates The increased rates of

Andrew Wilsoncervical cancer for women The increased rates of St s which are inside the industry very much inside the industry we can pretend that that's not true but it is true how can you say that it's not

Demi Hawksan increased risk even for violence and for sa there are many jobs that have certain risks and that's what I said like you you think about it it's not a decision you take L but if this is what

Demi Hawkslike if I had a daughter and she really thought about it and was being like had a good head on her shoulders about it then yeah of course like she should she

Demi Hawksshould absolutely do it who am I to to stop it so then it stands to reason then that we could assume that other people's daughters um let's say from a single

Andrew Wilsonfather something like this who talked with you came to you and ask for advice on this that you would be encouraging to them as well well there's a reason I

Demi Hawksdon't give advice to people I'm not I'm not like a model necessarily like I'm a position to be a role model I don't

Andrew Wilsonspeak to anybody underage about what I do ever I never understand I understand that but it stands to reason though that if you would give that advice to your own daughter wouldn't you give it to other people's daughters as well I mean

Demi Hawkseverybody is somebody's daughter so if I was talking to a young woman and she was asking me questions about the porn industry I would answer but I don't go around encouraging people to to do porn

Andrew Wilsonor do sex work I think it's a a personal decision and I think you just said that you would encourage your daughter and to help her in any way possible if she if she wanted to you would discourage her at all I would support my daughter's

Demi Hawksdreams no matter what they were that's what I said I wouldn't go out of my way to be like oh like you should do porn it's going to make you a ton of money that's not how I would go about it but if she came I mean you wouldn't think you I mean you don't think it's a good parenting to support your kids in all

Demi Hawkstheir Endeavors right I mean that that seems counterproductive to Parenting do yeah but this isn't an Endeavor that's that would be bad to supportive of I think it would be more dangerous to you

Demi Hawksknow cut somebody off and be like well if you do that I'm not speaking to you and then she runs off what en no to speak to what is enabling is isn't enabling when you enable a bad behavior

Ali Hardestybecause you refuse to lay down a consequence for it it's not a bad behavior pornography is not a bad behavior no it's an occupation and people can disagree with

Ali Hardestyit and I would think if it was my kid I would explain the pros and cons this affected my life in a positive way this affected it in a negative way and you can learn from my experiences you can't really control someone when they're of age and they

Andrew Wilsonwant to make their own decisions well let's just look at it from a pragmatic perspective you would agree with me that most people who enter into pornography don't make very much money right I think

Demi Hawksthe statistics are widely skewed by people who come in for like a scene or two or they do only fans or something for like a month or two They Don't Really commit to it and yeah those people they do not make a lot of money

Demi Hawksand yeah so so most people who engage in pornography don't make a lot of money right but that's what I'm saying is that statistic is skewed by people who come in they shoot one or two scenes they're

Demi Hawksnot committed to it they people who engage in pornography don't make a lot of money is that correct it's the entertainment industry not everybody is successful but the people who commit to it there is a lot of money in this

Andrew Wilsonindustry yeah so so again to my question I'll ask it a fourth time so then most people people who engage in pornography don't make a lot of money correct it's only the really successful people that work hard at it that end up

Demi Hawksmaking the money I think that's sure I think that's true of like many professions um what are what exactly are you getting out I need to table this conversation we

Brian Atlascan get back to the porn is bad conversation later on in the show I need to table it for now because I want to move into uh pretty much move into our main segment here

Brian Atlasso uh before I do that though there's one pre question to this so um hold on one sec

Brian Atlasguys one sec I'm getting there all right uh first thing is and we won't Linger on this specific top topic but we perhaps will come back to it later uh this has

Brian Atlaskind of been a heated conversation that's gone on the past two shows so do would you want your guy to sacrifice his life life for you and I suppose the best way to frame this is in

Natalia Taylorsome hypothetical scenario would you want your boyfriend or husband to take a bullet for you starting with you sure so I wouldn't necessarily want that scenario to take place but you're saying in a

Natalia Taylorhypothetical situation where where one of you has to one of us okay so my relationship my marriage is based off of biblical principles so when I ask

Natalia Taylorthat question I say what does the Bible say about it and the Bible says that the husband's role in a marriage is to love his wife like Christ loved the church and so that means basically to lay down

Natalia Tayloryour life if you have to because that's what Christ did for the church he laid down his life so I guess in that hypothetical situation if my husband was

Andrew Wilsonfollowing the principles of the Bible he would want to do that so yes yeah but to to clarify this though hang on I'm sorry before we can move on on the question I got to clarify uh two two points first

Andrew Wilsonuh just for my own curiosity what denomination are you I'm non-denominational non-domination Protestant um I think Protestant is a a

Andrew Wilsondenomination isn't it no no it's just um we won't get into thisf it's not not important but I just just for my own I call myself a follower of Jesus that's

Andrew Wilsonthat's it I don't say I'm one thing or the other okay got it um so so the question specifically is would you want in that

Andrew Wilsonsituation would your preference be in that situation that the husband because you're saying he has a higher Duty correct so you're saying he has a higher Duty and part of this uh duty is to

Andrew Wilsonprotect you and part of that protection is that he takes the bullet right just to clarify I would say yes okay all right

Nicoleum I think when you love someone if you love them unconditionally and no such thing as unconditional okay love when you really love someone I

Nicolethink it's you would want to put your life down for them so honestly it'd be I wouldn't want him to necessarily step in front of a bullet for me because I would give my life for someone I love does

Natalia Taylorthat make any sense so he would want to do that for me as I would want to do that for him I I feel the same I Okay so I agree with her I would also do the same I would do the same for my husband but yeah yeah but see this is why I was

Andrew Wilsonreally specific on questioning you about this because you you claimed that it was not a preference but that he had a higher Duty that's a there's a distinction and I'm I hate to harp on

Andrew Wilsonthis because the but Details Matter right so does he have a whether he want it or not does he have a higher duty to do it from your worldview I guess I

Andrew WilsonDefine higher Duty like to so the definition of a higher duty is the prevalence that his duty to jump in front of a bullet takes precedent over

Andrew Wilsonyour duty to take one for him then no sorry I didn't I didn't understand what you meant so then how is that a reflection of the church I don't understand because you started with uh the reflection of the church is that the

Andrew Wilsonman is the sacrifice as he is the head of the he he's the representation of the head of the church which is Jesus Christ who sacrificed himself on the cross right right so but my duty so then so

Andrew Wilsonthen his duty his wouldn't his duty his higher Duty be to sacrifice himself for

Natalia Tayloryou if he yes so it's yes and no because I also feel like my position in as a Christian or as someone that loves Jesus

Natalia Tayloris to also replicate him as well so for me I don't just say okay only the husband has to do this I think it's like non it's non-exclusive so so I it's my

Natalia Taylorduty as a Christian that believes in God to replicate what like basically what Jesus lived so it's to follow Jesus is to live as he lived on this Earth and so that means to lay down your life for a

Natalia Taylorfriend a husband someone you love whoever that's just the way that it is like the way that I believe so I don't want to say my husband I I require my husband to do it and I don't expect

Brian Atlasmyself to also want to do that thing for him if that makes sense it doesn't make any sense but we can move on from him okay I think you answered you would take a bullet for him I mean but like do you

Nicolethink would you date a guy who wouldn't be willing to do that for you no because that means that he doesn't like love me in the same way that I love him if you love someone and you're in a

Nicolerelationship with them or let's say in a friendship like this is my best friend if I would take a bullet for her as well just as I know she would want to do for me but isn't this sort of a

Brian Atlasunidirectional thing only one person can protect in this scenario only one person can take the bullet right so I me

Brian Atlaswhoever's faster at would it be um do you think men would refuse to date a woman who isn't prepared to take a bullet for

Nicolethem um no I don't think men necessarily I don't think they wouldn't they don't look to women for protection no do you think a guy is less masculine uh if he

Nicolewouldn't be willing to take a bullet or die for his girlfriend I do if there was an active situation where that was happening and he freaking pushed me to

Nicolethe side and like ran away I would be like yeah that's not a man youum that is a little B do you think men would at similar rates if their girlfriend did something similar like ran off scared

Brian Atlascowered whatever do you think they would be more or less inclined to perhaps they'd lose attraction end the relationship I mean that's up to the man um and do you think that they would care

Andrew Wilsonless though than women would care about that I think women probably do care more about that your answer to the question do you want a guy to uh sacrifice can can I I'm sorry can I jump in just real quick Brian okay so I wanted to ask you

Andrew Wilsona question on this uh kind of following up on Brian's uh Brian's question do you think um that you're an honorable person

Andrew Wilsonwould you consider yourself an honorable person yes yeah do you think that it's appropriate then for who whatever man you're with to defend your honor um

Nicoleyeah if that's the case if he's defending your honor that's going to put him in a situation where he could get hurt right yeah that actually did happen in my relationship so then hang on so if

Andrew Wilsonthat's true then then you're basically saying that he has a higher duty to take damage over you yeah so the expectation is not that you're going to take a bullet for him he takes a bullet for you the

Nicoleexpectation is that he's going to take the bullet right cuz you're willing to just put him In Harm's Way on behalf of your honor right I'm not willing sheing I'm not willing to put him in a Harm's

Andrew WilsonWay in any scenario but well no but but hang on you NOP because we just went through it answer one man has a duty to defend your honor because you're an

Andrew Wilsonhonorable person you literally said your man has that Duty so if he has a duty to do this that means you hang on almost done that the entailment of that is that you would be willing to put him in a

Nicolesituation where he takes damage on behalf of just your honor if situation like that if someone was attacking my honor how am I putting him in that situation I'm not going out of my way I

Andrew Wilsonactually have a scenario well hang on I'm going to tell you how I'm going to explain so that you understand because your expectation for him is that he has

Andrew Wilsona duty to defend your honor so if that's the case if he has a duty to do this then you have the expectation that he's willing to put himself at risk just to

Andrew Wilsondefend your honor we're not even talking about you know a bullet at this point just your honor could actually get this guy killed right potentially it could I also have a duty to defend his honor as well yeah but you're not going to be

Andrew Wilsonable to defend it the same way are you you're not going to be able to for instance if a guy is badmouthing him or something you're not going to be able to walk over and punch him in the face uh it's not going to be very effective is it it but he can do that on behalf of

Andrew Wilsonyou uh on behalf for for a male right can verbally defend someone's honor without it leading to violence yeah but that's not what we were talking about and by the way hang on hang on almost

Andrew Wilsondone and by the way the situation that you're talking about when you said that actually happened to me I'm guessing included violence didn't it um do you want to hear about the situation or did

Andrew Wilsonit include violence well yeah but no yeah that's what I kind of figured okay go ahead do you think that he shouldn't then do you think that he shouldn't defend well it's not it's not a question

Andrew Wilsonfor me it was a question for you so I'm just giving you the entailment of your logic if the entailment of your logic is wait a second it's equal I would take a bullet for him he would take a bullet for me And yet when we get down to the

Andrew Wilsonnitty-gritty you believe that you're an honorable person and you therefore believe that your honor should be defended by a man this means if that's true that you're willing to put a Man In Harm's Way just for the purpose

Nicoleof your that is putting so many words in my mouth but I also can my own I'm just giving you my own honor and that is not that's not how logic works you can't

Andrew Wilsonjust say that I'm willing to tell me how logic Works give me one give me one rule law of logic give me one law of logic

Andrew Wilsonone um it's based in fact and Truth what what can you give me a single law of logic can you yes I this is

Andrew Wilsonsemantic in you're putting I also stop I'll answer your question let me give you so that you understand them the the first is the law of non-contradiction the second is the

Andrew Wilsonlaw of excluded middle right would you like would you how many would you like would you like to get into informal logic as well yeah go for it would you like to get into the law of identity that's the third law what else would you

Andrew Wilsonlike that's semantics at this point I no no that's literally the opposite of semantics do you know what semantics are because that's not semantics okay can you help me Natalia

Brian Atlasis enjoying this one she has so much to say you guys can uh let let me just get everybody's answer on this and we can come back question I would like to come back to this so oh you want to keep

Nicolegoing well I just I just want to clarify that by me saying that I would want my man to defend my honor is not me purposefully putting him In Harm's Way I can also I'm fully capable of um

Nicoledefending my own honor as well and did say that I would be willing to defend his honor but you said it wouldn't be effective so that's yeah I found that

Andrew Wilsoninteresting that you literally said that she would not be able hang on hang on respond let him respond go ahead Andrew yeah let me respond so the

Andrew Wilsonentailment it is an entailment of your logic so that you understand if you make the claim that you have honor and a man needs to defend that honor the the entailment of that is that he's going to

Andrew Wilsonget put In Harm's Way I don't know how you get out of that that's just basic deductive reasoning I also said that I would be willing to defend his honor but you said it wouldn't be effective yeah but what does that have to do with

Nicoleanything even if that's true it does not of your logic and someone is attacking someone that you respect you would be willing to defend their honor that's

Demi Hawksjust a man also has honor hold on okay okay I'm moving it on go ahead answer answer the question what was would I take a bullet question you want

Madisonwould you want a guy to sacrifice his life for you take a bullet for you oh God like right in front of me no um you so you'll take the

Brian Atlasbullet gosh okay here's perhaps here's an other way to frame it would you date a guy who wasn't willing to sacrifice his life for you assuming you've been dating for 2 years or you're

Demi Hawksmarried no no I would I mean like because the expectation would probably be and as he said that I wouldn't be able to defend his honor in the same way

Brian Atlasbut forget the honor thing sure but you know just answer the actual question well I think of like my friends who I love and I would take a bullet for

Demi Hawksthem would you I would and so if I were to be in a committed relationship with somebody with a man and I would feel that way about him I would want him to feel the same way about me but okay okay

Demi Hawksisn't there a gender expectation for men to protect women who are these people who are coming up to me and being like you are your boyfriend like choose now like that's not a hypothetical that I'm

Brian Atlasever it's a mentality yeah it is a mentality and I'm not saying I expect somebody to die let me just help let me help you guys Burg let me hold on let me help you guys I need some help let me help you guys so you can have a you can

Brian Atlashave an enemy I would not be willing I don't care if she's my girlfriend or wife I would not be willing in that scenario to take a bullet for her I would not die

Brian Atlasfor my girlfriend or wife would you watch her die in front of you if in a hypothetical scenario it's me or her she can take the bullet okay absolutely I'm not taking it for her have you been

Nicolein have you been in love with somebody before yeah I've been in love so and you would let her die these women um something spill no it's empty you're

Nicolesingle I don't disclose my uh Rel you I'm not going to put words in your mouth so I'm just going to ask and you can tell me if this is correct um you

Nicolewould probably prefer a woman who respects herself and has you know confidence High self-esteem yeah he would I think you do you want a woman who respects herself or doesn't respect

Nicoleherself do you think a self-respecting woman would look for that in a partner for them to blatantly say care don't care okay so she can respect her yeah I'd prefer to date a woman who respects herself sure I don't really see how

Brian Atlasthat's related okay so if we're talking about like high value women so now okay so because I've taken this position now you guys can actually answer the question so what you're saying is in order for a woman to respect herself she

Nicoleshe would only date a man who would be willing to sacrifice his life for his partner I'm not necessarily saying that I'm I'm more so asking like the kind of women that you would want to attract

Brian Atlasright because what you put out there you also attract so what your so is your position a woman who doesn't respect herself would be willing to date someone like me because ignore any other

Brian Atlasconsiderations but just by the fact of I would not be willing to sacrifice my life for a girl who for example I've dated one year I wouldn't be willing to do it you said wife also sure fine two years 3 years 10 years whatever don't

Nicolecare um any period of time I guess in this situation I would say probably not she's not self-respecting if well if you're actively advertising that I don't

Brian Atlasthink a woman yeah okay so then just reverse it so would a guy not be self-respecting of himself if he wasn't willing to date a woman or if he uh

Brian Atlasdated a woman who wasn't willing to take a bullet for him we've already established that I think men have a higher um okay so it's a gender role yeah it's a gender role okay okay so that's not really your

Brian Atlasbeliefs it ABS actually it absolutely is but did you give your answer Demi huh did you give your answer it worked yeah Didn't I did you uh you guys can't actually answer this straight

Brian Atlaswhat did I say that I would expect him to take a bullet yeah you guys say well I would do the same thing for him but you got to understand this is a one like only one person can take the

Ali Hardestybullet can I chime in go ahead I think it's a lose lose situation because because I think if a man did that for me I would die of a broken heart if I had to watch the person I love die in front of me like

Brian Atlasweren't allow to that whatever I have the pass I'm I'm I'm a arser I can say it I have the pass you would die of a broken heart okay that is so traumatic watching your husband or I think you're

Demi Hawksoverthinking the hypothetical a little bit here are we or are you like what what is are we in two separate RS like we don't have to watch like what is the hypothe sucks for widows I get it do you

Ali Hardestythink they die like they die too I would never be the same I would never be the same yeah but okay that's totally that's kind of a I would honestly rather take the bullet

Andrew WilsonI think because I don't think I could mentally handle that yeah you yeah mentally handle orgies and [ __ ] you're could mentally handle f is that also extremely damaging to a person psyche

Nicoleyou can handle all that it depends how you look at it get murdered is just a little bit different yeah I think it's just a tiny bit of a different thing okay here go around the table on this I need to adjust the camera set yeah I uh

AspenI think that there is an expectation on men to protect women and I do I think that that I think it's extremely Noble extremely honorable extremely um

Aspensacrificial and I think men should be looked up to for uh that responsibility that's that so would you prefer the man to take the bullet for you I would I

Aspenwould prefer even though like I would be a wreck and I would be heartbroken like I I would be hurt if if I was with I would not want to be with somebody that

Brian Atlasdidn't have that mindset I agree yeah uh what about you um yeah I'd prefer it okay perhaps this question ought to be framed as would you date a

Morganguy who was not willing to sacrifice his life for you well see that's what I was kind of like I would prefer it but I wouldn't necessarily immediately look

Brian Atlasdown on a man if he didn't I wouldn't say he was low value just for that reason alone yeah well CU we brought this question up recently and and it will kind of somewhat segue into

Brian Atlasthe main topic of the show The Man vers bear thing but uh and I've stated this in two other podcasts so far and it's honestly quite an interesting conversation that we always have on this but the frequent comments that I get on

Brian Atlasthis is well you're less masculine because of it you're not a real man because of it you're going to have a hard time finding a woman because of it women shouldn't date you because of that

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