Man vs. Bear DEBATE! Andrew Wilson! Genghis Khan BETA MALE? E-GIRLS! ( ° °) | Dating Talk #158

Date: 2024-05-06

Duration: 6h 49m

Guests

Brian Atlas

NNatalia Taylor >

AAli Hardesty >

MMadison (DT164)>

AAndrew Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_02Madison(guest)

SPEAKER_03Natalia Taylor(guest)

SPEAKER_04Ali Hardesty(guest)

SPEAKER_05Nicole(guest)

SPEAKER_07Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_10Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_11Demi Hawks(guest)

SPEAKER_12Morgan(guest)

SPEAKER_13Aspen(guest)

Key Moments

QuoteBrian Atlas opens show intro

“welcome to the whatever dating Talk podcast where we try to make sense of the modern dating hellscape”

OtherNatalia Taylor introduces herself as a traditional model

“hi I'm Natalia Taylor I'm 27 I'm from the Coachella Valley and I'm a traditional model and a cashier at a gift shop”

OtherDemi Hawks introduces herself as a porn star (returning guest)

“uh I'm Demi Hawks I'm 24 and I live in Los Angeles and I'm a porn star welcome back”

OtherMorgan reveals she quit OnlyFans after encountering the Whatever podcast

“I will say your podcast did help solidify that decision... I was already like getting out of it but after coming into contact with the podcast it definitely solidified”

ControversyAndrew Wilson argues pornography is semantically identical to prostitution

“if you make the claim that people who have sexual intercourse for money are prostitutes and you're having sexual intercourse for money this would make you a what — that would make me a prostitute”

ControversyBrian states he would not take a bullet for a girlfriend or wife

“I would not be willing in that scenario to take a bullet for her I would not die for my girlfriend or wife”

ControversyAndrew Wilson cites Ephesians 5:22 on wifely submission to justify Brian's position

“wives submit yourselves unto your own husbands as unto the Lord for the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church”

OtherNatalia shares she submitted to her husband before attraction developed — heard God's voice

“I heard God tell me this is your husband submit to him... I knew that the way that he appeared during that time wasn't how he would always be and that he would grow into the man that he was meant to be”

OtherMan vs Bear debate introduced — would you rather be stuck in the woods with a man or a bear?

“the question is would you rather be stuck in the woods with a man or a bear”

ControversyDemi explains bears are more predictable than unknown men; Andrew challenges her promiscuity contradiction

“a man that I don't know could be very unpredictable and a bear like it can be unpredictable but if you leave Bears alone they will more likely leave you”

OtherRatings round begins — Brian asks panel to rate own looks 1-10

“Stiffler ask everyone to rate their looks on a scale of 1 to 10 start with you”

OtherNatalia discloses drug addiction, psychosis, and husband's drug dealing backstory

“I was addicted to weed cocaine Molly um and hallucinogens... I went into a full-blown psychosis for over a year”

OtherNicole's condom cup story — ex cheated in her apartment

“I go back into my room my bed and there's a cup with a condom wrapper inside of it”

ControversyAndrew Wilson's debate-book recommendations after Gerald's $600 super chat

“Story of Philosophy by Will Durant... A World Without Men by Aaron Clarey... Dogmatic Theology by Losskey... Terry Goodkind fiction... Lord of the Rings”

OtherBrian reveals Sadia Khan cancelled appearance over travel compensation dispute

“she was supposed to be the guest on the show today... the big crux of it was she was already planning to be in LA we're 2 hours north she wanted to get us to pay for an Uber there and back and then hotel”

OtherEnd-of-show body count round: Demi 100+, Ali 100-200, Natalia under 10, Aspen under 10, Morgan teens, Madison ~2-3

“lost count forever ago in the hundreds no like over 100 that's the number for the day boys and girls”

Topics Discussed

Intro & 1M Clips Channel Plaque Unboxing

Brian opens the show with announcements and unboxes YouTube 1M subscriber plaque for the Whatever Clips channel.

Guest introductions

All guests introduce themselves: name, age, location, occupation. Includes brief discussion of traditional vs. OnlyFans modeling, Demi's porn career, Morgan quitting OnlyFans after the show, Natalia's YouTube channel, Andrew Wilson's Crucible channel and Miami beef with Wes Watson.

Relationship statuses

Each guest describes current relationship status. Demi discusses building first-ever roster. Ali describes meeting ex at a foursome. Natalia describes meeting husband during recovery. Nicole describes meeting current boyfriend Will (ex's former best friend). Demi's pornography vs. prostitution semantics debate with Andrew Wilson.

Should a man take a bullet for a woman?

Brian states he would not take a bullet for a girlfriend or wife, but would for his children. Panel goes around the table. Andrew Wilson debates from Eastern Orthodox ethics: submission must precede sacrifice. Natalia argues from Biblical equality. Discussion extends to Genghis Khan, alpha/beta framing, and ecclesiastical authority in marriage. Champagne pop when viewer Gerald sends $600.

Biblical submission in marriage

Andrew Wilson cites Ephesians 5:22 on wifely submission. Natalia (married) shares she submitted to her husband before attraction developed; husband grew into the role. Debate on whether submission is prerequisite for male sacrifice. Andrew argues church community/shame mechanisms prevent arbitrary divorce.

Man vs. Bear debate

Viral TikTok/hypothetical question: would you rather be alone in the woods with a man or a bear? Most panel chose 'man'. Only Demi (and briefly Andrew) chose 'bear'. Brian argues the choice is social signaling about distrust of men. Andrew presents reframed versions (bathroom, room, 10 men vs 10 bears). Discussion of women's distrust of men, domestic violence stats, correlation of OnlyFans careers with male distrust.

Trust of men, promiscuity, and OnlyFans

Andrew presses Demi on contradiction: wants to be more promiscuous but chose bear over man. Demi argues she only has sex with men in the industry she knows. Discussion of sample size from sex work leading to male distrust. Ali and Demi identified as the two who said 'bear' — both in sex work.

Ratings round

Brian asks panel to rate their own looks 1-10. Self-ratings given: Natalia 6.9, Nicole 7, Demi 10, Ali 5.5, Morgan 7, Brian ~5 (self-stated). Andrew jokingly rated himself 4 in Demi's voice.

Pre-show notes & guest stories

Brian reads pre-show notes. Natalia's drug addiction/psychosis/husband backstory. Nicole's condom cup story (ex cheated in her apartment). Demi's marketable skills discussion. Ali's orgy-meeting-ex backstory. Morgan's child support negotiation. Andrew's book recommendations. Discussion on OnlyFans backup plans if EMP or ban.

Show wrap-up and Sadia Khan story

Brian discloses Sadia Khan (dating coach/psychologist) was originally booked for the episode but cancelled over travel compensation dispute (Uber + hotel from LA). Brian offered a carpool; she declined. He says she was the B-side. Rachel Wilson (Andrew's wife) confirmed as upcoming guest. Twitch raid to 'Grandma' (82yo World of Warcraft player). Body count round at end.

Transcript

Page 1 of 8

Brian Atlaswelcome to the whatever dating Talk podcast where we try to make sense of the modern dating hellscape thank you for tuning in tonight you could have been anywhere in the world but you're here with me I appreciate that coming to you live from Santa Barbara California

Brian Atlasevery Sunday and Tuesday 5:00 p.m. Pacific I'm your host Brian Atlas few quick announcements this podcast is viewer supported guys we got everybody's

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Brian Atlasguys to message us you're going to have to go into your draft into your message tab do a draft type in whatever or you can just do a app to a story it's absolutely scuffed but anyways follow me

Brian Atlason Instagram BD Atlas check out my nonprofit movement big ladyb matter or BLM for short really the pressing issue of our time if you can't catch the full shows we have a Clips Channel link

Brian Atlasfor that is in the description we got three Clips channels uh speaking of which guys I got to do a little announcement here I should had Maddie do this guys we hit the we hit the 1 mil on

Brian Atlasthe uh Clips channel so I'm going to do a uh scuffed unboxing this thing's massive congratulations you look at me to say it again waiting for to say her

Brian Atlaslittle joke all right here here's the unboxing Bo you get a little uh we got a little letter here from Neil okay cool thank you Neil appreciate it thank you homie then we got you know you got oh

Brian Atlas[ __ ] scuffed already there we go oh my and you take that off and uh all right so uh big thank you to

Brian Atlaseverybody who has subbed over there and who watches the show and uh supports us thank you guys we got a got a plaque for our Clips channel so very much appreciated and I'm going to we'll leave it on the table I think during the show

Brian Atlasuh anyways thank you guys for that we have a Discord discord.gg whatever link is in the

Brian Atlasdescription and then lastly disclaimer the views expressed by the guests do not necessarily reflect the views of the whatever Channel with that said and without further Ado we're going to have

Natalia Taylorthe guests introduce themselves so please tell us your name age location and occupation go ahead hi I'm Natalia Taylor I'm 27 I'm from the Coachella

Natalia TaylorValley and I'm a traditional model and a cashier at a gift shop what so what's a traditional model so I have a modeling agency in

Brian AtlasLa I'm not an O model or an Instagram model like you do actual actual modeling traditional modeling traditional modeling so do you have beef with girls

Natalia Taylorwho like do that other kind of modeling who claim to be models is that no no I just thought it would be important to distinguish that make a distinction yeah it's fair it's fair because we got two

Ali Hardestytwo o girls at the panel today so do you guys take any quarrel with with the distinction she chooses to make you guys aren't real models uh I mean I'm not offended

Andrew WilsonTR yeah she's put in the work they're non 18 plus model Big Air quotes here on the model part but okay um when you say

Andrew Wilsonum traditional model can you can you maybe help us out there what kind of traditional yeah so like I do uh well they call it like um it's going to be

Natalia Taylortop like fashion the third one down third one down they they well print is basically it's considered Runway and print stuff too but yeah I recently was in a runway show her first one which is

Natalia Taylorreally exciting yeah it makes sense it makes sense well I am I'm 5 fo 10 so pretty tall so you're not so you're not doing things like lingerie modeling that kind of thing uh not at this

Natalia Taylorpoint are you going to expand into something like that you think I would have to be really particular about like the lingerie brand if I was like offered you know to do something for like um

Nicolelike Rihanna's lingerie or you know even Victoria Secret nowadays I would consider it okay thank you what about you my name is Nicole I'm 24 years old

Nicoleand I live in Huntington Beach um I am a freelance makeup artist for a brand called itg cosmetics and YSL Beauty as well and she's also my best

Nicolefriend oh okay and uh where are you from um I'm originally from Palm Springs but I live in Huntington Beach now all right

Demi Hawkscool uh I'm Demi Hawks I'm 24 and I live in Los Angeles and I'm a porn star welcome back thank you hi I'm Ali

Ali HardestyHardesty I'm 27 I live in Huntington Beach and I'm a YouTuber sloff model welcome very good my name is Aspen

AspenI live in Eastern Washington I'm 28 years old and I work as an emergency nurse and I do International Disaster Response nursing and then I work at a pro-life um Crisis Pregnancy Center all

Brian Atlasright can we have you scooted into the table just a tad uh Gustavo what about you Gustavo buos Tardes kiche oh wait that's

Natalia TaylorItalian uh K right how do you say how do you say okay there's going to be a language barrier here I'm just going to move on

Morganwhat about you uh I'm Morgan I'm 28 I'm I am from the Bay Area I am in bartending and recently joined the Lash

Brian Atlascommunity so lash teching and X only fans oh did not know that um okay X used to do o was it what kind of

Morgancontent were you making on no solo okay you never did BG content no okay and just to give credit where credit is due I will say your podcast did help

Morgansolidify that decision oh oh my good oh look at that I was already like getting out of it but after coming into contct with the podcast it definitely solidifi how long

Morgandid you do it for it was really on and off but I'd say I would do it sporadically for months at a time and then I'd kind of get sick of it uh on and off for

Madisonabout two years okay Maddie what about you my name is Madison I'm 19 years old I'm from San Diego but I currently live in Santa

Brian AtlasBarbara I work for the whatever podcast and I'm a student at Santa Bara City College studying Communications all right welcome

Brian Atlaseverybody and then last but not least the great debate God my Caucasian Andrew Wilson take it away

Andrew Wilsonyeah my name is Andrew Wilson I am the host of The One and Only Crucible fastest growing debate channel on the internet to my knowledge I'm a political saturnist I do political commentary and

Andrew WilsonI'm also a blood sport debater um and I work as a uh by trade as a robotics engineer

Brian Atlasokay welcome Andrew appreciate it uh glad to uh have you back congrats man 1 million you did it we did it you did it

Brian Atlaswe did it J now Andrew you were uh you got into a bit of I don't know if you want to talk about it uh you had a beef in in Miami in Florida do you want

Andrew Wilsonto talk about it or not really you had a beef oh with um with Mr Roid Rage yeah I remember that so um actually we were kind of surprised

Andrew Wilsonby that the um the panel itself we weren't exactly sure what the format of it was going to be um I'm not really sure that they knew exactly what the

Andrew Wilsonformat was going to be so um when we were we were kind of told hey we're just going to talk about kind of what our different viewpoints are as far as success goes and it was it was kind of

Andrew Wilsonfunny because um I was talking with Walter before it started and Walter was like you know the the best thing about having you on is your adversarial nature he's like so don't lose that on the panel and I was like well okay I won't

Brian Atlaslose the adversarial nature on the panel I promise so and but he he wasn't expecting it to go like that either did you guys squash it behind the scenes like is it is it good or you guys still

Andrew Wilsonkind of beefing uh well I mean I don't have um I don't like ongoing beefs they're not very productive yeah and I don't think that uh West Watson is uh you know

Andrew Wilsonparticularly inclined so I'm sure I'm sure I'll do a show discussing it I haven't even done a show discussing that yet okay um sure and then other than that like I'm not looking for any kind of long-term problem with the guy he was

Andrew Wilsonjust kind of a roed out blow heart but what what got me what was interesting about it is he was triggered so quickly by so and um it drew a contrast but one of the

Andrew Wilsonthings that kind of made I think the uh the manosphere look bad and the red kind of the red pill looked bad and the reason they were so upset with him is because he looked like a caricature of what the basically the opponents of the

Andrew Wilsonred pill say right these guys are just a bunch of materialist roed out uh woman bashing lunatics that's essentially what um you know what the what the people in opposition to the red pill manosphere

Andrew Wilsonsay and this guy ended up becoming kind of a caricature for that so it didn't go over very well for him but yeah we were actually kind of surprised at how much he freaked out and how much of a slave

Andrew Wilsonto his emotions he was so yeah good times good times did you shave your arms I uh I did not shave my arms that was the I couldn't believe that the guy

Andrew Wilsonsaid that me just gave your arms I was like what then Jim Bob of course said shave his arms he's a man why would he shave his arms anyways uh so we're going to go around the table one once more so what

Brian Atlasis everybody's current relationship status so are you single talking stage situationship Friends with Benefits relationship married polyu sex Cole terum whatever it may be if you're single how long have you been single and

Natalia Taylorwhat's the longest relationship you've ever been in starting with you go ahead I'm married I've been married for two and a half years now and I've been with

Natalia Taylormy husband for I believe eight years now so yeah that's the longest relationship I've ever been in thank you how old did you say you were I'm 27 all 27 so you said you're married for two years yep

Brian Atlasand but you've been together for eight years total yep okay and consecutively like there weren't any on again off again there weren't any breaks or there

Brian Atlasweren't any breaks okay wow okay so from basically 19 to now at 27 You' been together uh maybe it was 20 yeah I'm

Natalia Taylortrying to do the math in my head we met in 2017 so I thought that was 8 years maybe seven but yeah okay all right and never broke up always together no and I'm very happily married can confirm I

Brian AtlasI've know both a long time shout out to Z that's um that's great good for you thank you and uh it's rare for the whatever

Natalia Taylorpodcast to hear from someone who's actually in a healthy ongoing relationship that's never anyways Brian that's kind of like

Natalia Taylora huge reason that I'm here cuz you know my friend Ally she's been on the podcast before and she thought you know it might be interesting to have you on because it's a little bit different than what you guys normally do and just to let you

Natalia Taylorknow no offense no offense but I've never seen the show so I have no idea I have no idea I like just watch I watched a few clips and and so yeah I can't wait

Nicoleto contribute what my experiences are and my opinions rock and roll rock and roll what about you um I'm in a relationship with my boyfriend his name is Will we've been together for four

Nicoleyears um and that's my longest relationship that I've been how did you guys meet um well I used to date his best friend a long time ago when I was in

Nicolehigh school um okay so yeah I dated his friend and we broke up um him and I stayed in contact for about 3 years and

Nicolethen um I think at a certain point we kind of got a crush on each other and he actually went the right route he spoke to him before anything happened and he

Nicolegot his Blessing so yeah but he was an [ __ ] so honestly it's fine the ex the ex he was a complete [ __ ] he's still is so what would have happened if he didn't get his Blessing I was just thinking that I don't think we would

Brian Atlashave continued I mean it really yeah we would have stopped right there yeah H are they still friends no the two guys no they're not but it is uh were they best friends or just friends they were

Nicolebest friends but they did like grow and complete completely opposite directions I think that wait question did they stop being friends after you got

Nicolewith the new guy your current boyfriend yes huh it could just be a coincidence okay so when he um told him about like I

Nicolethink I like Nicole or whatever like would you mind if I you know pursued that he actually said dude if you guys get married I'll be the best man at your wedding I don't even care and I'm actually glad you said that because I

Nicoleactually hooked up with this girl that you were seeing and so I'm glad like he put that on the table so he wasn't a really good friend he grew in a completely different direction so I don't think they would have been friends

Nicoleregardless at least I hope not because my boyfriend like grew into this amazing person and I think that he's um will is so great he's grown a lot since we've been together and I don't think that

Demi Hawksthat relationship would be compatible anymore like that friendship hm okay what about you I'm still single single still single but loving it in my on the street you're loving it on the

Demi Hawksstreet I've been uh I've been single since January like mid to end of January and yeah it's been good I've never like been single for long stretches of time

Demi Hawksthis is the longest period of time I've ever been single in my life really yeah why why do you think that is I'm a l girl I like I just lock me down wait you're a what girl I'm a lover

Demi Hawksgirl you're a lover girl say that how long was your longest relationship uh 7 years wow how old are you again I'm 24

Demi Hawks24 okay so you're a lover girl and so not anymore though are there any guys in the picture there's there's like some guys that I'm you know kind of

Demi Hawksgoing on dates I'm not trying to I'm not trying to be in a relationship with anybody like I like going on you know dates here and there I've definitely been like hooking up with people but I'm

Andrew Wilsonmaking it very clear like I just want to have fun I don't want to be locked down do does lover does lover girl kind of mean like um like promiscuous is that is that what you me um I guess I meant it

Demi Hawksin like oh that I'm like sappy and I get kind of like pulled into like like a romantic yeah I get kind of romantic and I'm not being like that so much anymore

Demi Hawksyou said that there's a couple guys in the picture there are although so you have you got a roster I'm trying to build a roster and it's like I'm building it this is my plan but it's

Demi Hawkskind of difficult cuz I'm very busy and I only hook up with other guys in the in the porn industry part of that is like the testing bubble and all that that I worry about so they're busy and I'm busy

Brian Atlasand then it's kind of hard to maintain this roster that I'm building and so the roster does does the roster consist of only guys in the industry yeah and how many so what

Demi Hawkswhat's the roster looking like currently two three guys oh sad yeah maybe two or three it's sad because there's too few yeah I feel like it should be like Pokemon like got to catch them all you want like 10 yeah that's guys that

Demi Hawksyou're interested in or guys that you're like actively sleeping with into the mic you canable you can SK to the table too it's guys that I like spending time with I like sleeping with them I'm not interested in uing a relationship right

Demi Hawksnow I've just like like I said I've kind of been locked down like my whole life definitely my whole adult life and that was like I just wanted to experience being single and being free and I had some bad

Demi Hawksrelationships I made really bad choices about the men like that I got into relationships with so I'm just kind of great um if you don't mind me me following up when you say that you've been locked down most of your adult life

Andrew Wilsonhow old are you 24 so your adult life has been 5 years 6 years yeah wait yeah yeah six

Andrew Wilsonyears so I mean it's not really how how many different lockdowns did you have in that six-year period I had two long-term relationships were they both about three

Demi HawksI had one like that I like I met a guy in high school and we work together through high school and then through till I was like 2021 and then or 22 and then I was in a relationship for

Demi Hawkstwo 2 years with another guy were you in the porn industry while you were in a relationship mhm and did he mind or um no honestly like that's not why we broke

Demi Hawksup it was like other well kind of from my perspective uh cuz he saw how much money I was making important and was like well I don't want to work and that

Demi Hawksstarted to bother meit that fin a little bit just like there were there were a lot of other things going on on in that relationship and we were just like we were spending less time ask you a

Brian Atlasquestion on that if you were dating a billionaire and your earning potential was like 40,000 a year wouldn't it be like make sense for like you to not work a 9 to-5 while dating a billionaire and like for him it's like a penny basically

Demi HawksI think that might make sense but I think he or whoever you know I was dating and this was sort of what happened was he might get bored if I'm just don't have an ambition and what what happened was like like you can

Demi Hawksdefinitely like do other things besides work and be an ambitious and interesting person or you can decide oh I'm not going to work I'm going to play video games all day I'm not going to be an

Andrew Wilsoninteresting or ambitious person mhm okay and that was kind of Happ I mean I don't I don't understand though if let's just say that this guy should probably get

Andrew Wilsonadditional points right away because by your own admission you're a prostitute right no no hold on well if you're a porn star prostitution there's a different there is a difference what's

Andrew Wilsonit what's the difference one is being filmed yeah one is being filmed it's like what I do is ENT so the difference between prostitution and pornography is that

Andrew Wilsonother people can jerk off to it I think so that because I'm in the I just no no I want to be clear I want this question answered what is the difference between prostitution and pornography I'm

Demi Hawksactually not clear on this point prostitution is a lot less regulated I would say it's a lot less like like when I walk into like a professional porn Studio set it's very like there's prostitutes who are regulated if you go

Andrew Wilsonto Nevada there's all sorts of regulations which they impose on their prostitutes uh and that includes testing that includes all sorts of different things they have professional brothel they're still prostitutes why would you

Demi Hawksmake the distinguishment between prostitution and pornography it's prostitution I think for the sake of the argument you're about to make so I'll let you get there like you're right I'll let you have that point and let the let

Demi Hawksyou make the rest of your case although I will say like industry wise like it's just like it's two different kind of experiences I won't say like oh one's better than the other and once's safer or cleaner or like just in the sake of

Demi Hawksthis argument like fine if you want to say like I I [ __ ] for money therefore I'm a prostitute well what else would you be a porn star a porn star well okay

Andrew Wilsonbut this is a there's a it's a non-semantic distinction so if you say people who have sexual intercourse for money are prostitutes and you're having sexual intercourse for money this would

Andrew Wilsonmake you a what that would make me a prostitute that would make you a prostitute so unless you can give me a a semantic distinction something which actually creates a delineation obviously prostitutes can have sex on on camera as

Demi Hawkswell as not on camera they would still be prostitutes what would the actual distin distinction between the two be I honestly I wouldn't say that I'm a a prostitute or I'm an escort because I'm

Demi Hawksnot and I don't want to like take I don't know like I don't want to take away from girls who do it's kind of like the distinction between like well it's the distinction

Andrew Wilsonbetween Stolen Valor is that what's going on Sten is it prostitution Stolen Valor like I don't want to take away from The Valor of the prostitutes uh as

Andrew WilsonI engage in the same exact type of sexual act I don't get it like what can you can you make an actual distinction between the two for me it's definitely it's not the same exact thing when I

Demi Hawkswalk onto a set I have like there's a script there's a call sheet there's a a specific stud or company it's man yeah it's managed very differently than like walking into a date with like mean

Andrew Wilsoncouldn't a guy hire a prostitute and then have a script for her to read when she came in because you know it made him happy uh I don't I don't understand what is the actual what is the actual

Andrew Wilsonsemantic distinction it seems like the talents PR who gets paid to have sex on camera or you're a prostitute who does not get paid to have sex on camera if you can actually give me a delineation

Demi Hawksthat makes sense I'm willing to accept it so the person I'm having sex with on camera is not the person who's paying me and they're also being paid to have sex on camera correct me if I'm wrong and

Andrew WilsonI'm not wait wait hang on hang on so I could I could also hire two prostitutes to have sex and pay them both even though I don't have sex with either of them correct yeah and then you're

Andrew Wilsoncreating an amateur porno I guess if you want to f it and put it somewhere well no I mean I could hire two prostitutes they could have sex with each other and I could never have sex with either of

Andrew Wilsonthem they would definitely be engaged in prostitution right yeah so what's the so I still need a distinction from you because everything you say it sounds like you could The Prostitute does the same exact

Demi Hawksthing it's the it's the combination of things like like I said like it is that I'm being paid to have sex and the person who's having sex with me is being paid there's a company that's like funding it like a big so there's two

Morganprostitutes being paid let me ask you would you say it that you consider it more of entertainment because it is filmed and as a as a as opposed to prostitution

Demi Hawksit's a do entertainment I think though like prostitution is also like entertaining to the person being entertained exactly so what what was the what was the point you were going with

Andrew Wilsonthis cuz I I feel like my point is is that uh I guess to to bring it back around um if if you can't give me an actual distinction between what a would actually be a delineation between

Andrew Wilsonprostitution and being a porn star because they're both just prostitution as far as far as I'm aware uh again willing to be corrected but the point I was making was that shouldn't this guy

Andrew Wilsonkind of get additional bonus points for the fact that he's with a prostitute willingly if she's making a ton of cash and he's with her willingly like isn't isn't that kind of bonus points for him

Demi Hawkslike from your perspective well if he's just using her it's kind of like he would be almost acting as like a pimp in that way where he's yeah like that's not how I want my personal relationship to

Nicolehow would he be a pimp because he's using letting her make money if if we're going with a prostitution angle he's just like laying back doing nothing and

Andrew Wilsonletting her make money for him as well for the prostitution or the porn if that makes okay but I I let me let me test this for you or test the logic here and you can tell me where I get this wrong

Andrew Wilsonyou're let's assume for a second you're engaged in prostitution and then you meet a guy and you end up with this guy and you continue to be engaged in prostitution how in the world would he

Andrew Wilsonbe the pimp you were already you were already a prostitute like now he's just he's with you and you're still doing the same thing you were doing before how would that colleting the money yeah we have

Demi Hawksthis term in the industry it's kind of a jokey term but we call them a suitcase pimp you know who a guy who usually lives off the the income of their girlfriend or their wife and they just

Demi Hawkskind of don't contribute in other ways I mean yeah we would we kind of call that a suitcase pimp it's not a fullon pimp but

Andrew Wilsonit is indry where you're not hang on I want to make sure I get this right inside of the industry where you're definitely not prostitute boyfriends who take the money from the girls are called pimps but definitely not prostitution in

Demi Hawksany way shape or form right I think you're confusing prostitution with sex work in which case like you are correct sex work is like this blanket term where

Andrew Wilsonlike you engage sex of of these porn stars pimps pimps are associated with what what are they associated with sex

Andrew Wilsonwork prostitutes that what do you mean sex work they're associated with prostitutes

Nicolehey there's a hooker in the back if you want her they don't go here I got a sex worker for you is because you were asking about the guy and like why she didn't want to be with him it's I just said pimp because

Nicolegoing along with the prostitute scenario I guess she didn't want to be with the guy because he had no ambition of his own and he just wanted her to basically

Andrew Wilsongo out and the film porn yeah and live off of her income and you know have no understand if he is willing to look past that right if he's willing to look past

Andrew Wilsonthe prostitution was to Brian's to Brian's Point well then this this could operate the the exact opposite way too right you would say that women then who are with men who make a lot of money are

Demi Hawksjust using them sometimes yeah mhm yeah but in I mean you would say at least it's a case by case though right yeah yeah and say in my case yeah like that guy got boring

Demi Hawksand kind of mean and very ambitious less and you know no amount of other so-called bonus points would you know make up for that it's just not what I wanted in my life it just wasn't

Demi Hawksworking yeah right I'm but but I guess my my point is is do you give extra points to somebody because they're willing to be with a prostitute no because because if somebody's willing to

Demi Hawksbe with me then they already have like those points you know what I mean like anybody I would date anybody who I interact with in my personal life like they are okay with that or I never

Demi Hawksinteract with them so like to me that's kind of just like a given that you know like it's not like oh this boyfriend better than that boyfriend because that boyfriend was like okay with me doing my

Andrew Wilsonjob it's like I I really only dat guys who are okay with me doing my job um would you prefer a man who told you that he didn't want you to engage in prostitution anymore no absolutely not

Andrew Wilsonthat's why I love being single nobody's telling me what to do yeah yeah so if that's if that's the case case then he could never be a pimp if he's with you in spite of the fact that you're a prostitute cuz you wouldn't want him to

Demi Hawkstell you not to be anyway right I don't think it mattered what my job is I think it was just that I was working a ton and making a lot of money and he just fell off because of that Andrew I do need to

Brian Atlasmove it on do you have a final do you have a final no no no we're good you had something go ahead oh no I already you're good okay uh really quick just to wrap up on the relationship status you said you currently have three people on

Demi Hawksyour roster yeah and these are all people who work in the industry is that correct yeah that's correct okay what's the most you've ever had on

Demi Hawksroster three this is my this is my first time being single it's my first time doing the roster thing so okay yeah and so you're like seeing each of these guys

Demi Hawksonce a week twice a week I wish like once a month twice a month and that's just scheduling and kind of just me like sometimes I'll make plans to hang out and then I I'm too

Ali Hardestytired okay what about you I am happily single I've been single for exactly 20 days now wow and I believe my longest relationship was about 3 years about a

Ali Hardestycouple of those how long was the one that ended 20 days ago it was 2 months but we were best friends for 2 years so things moved really quickly for that 2-year period that you were friends was there

Ali Hardestyany sexual involvement or strictly platon we met in an orgy but we didn't have sex we didn't have sex we just we interacted we didn't swap fully and then we just were

Ali Hardestyplatonic friends so when you say orgy um are you like do you consider yourself a swinger uh I think at that time there was a little bit of that but it was just with um my partner and then it was like the other couple which so you would go

Ali Hardestyto orgies with your boyfriend at the time yes so to be clear you he wasn't my boyfriend but he was my long-term friends of benefit situation guy the how

Brian Atlaslong were you in that 3 years like two years you were in an open situationship for 2 years basically yeah like on and off okay and you met your most recent

Brian Atlasguy who you dated for a couple months at an orgy while you were at said orgy with your two-year situationship they were roommates yes hold on just to be clear

Brian Atlasguy roomates to be clear the guy that you broke up with or that you guys broke up uh 20 days ago who you were dating

Brian Atlasfor two two months was it two 3 months he was roommates with your 2year situationship yeah they weren't roommates anymore but that's when I met

Ali Hardestyhim at the time they were at the time when you met him in the orgy they were it was at their house yes okay trying to keep track I guess it

Ali Hardestywas to be technical a forsome that we did not swapping and so he was the other person the other guy okay so wait you met him during an orgy yes well I met

Ali Hardestyhim a forsome or an orgy it was a forsome is that an orgy I'm not really sure I don't I don't know there was four people no one swapped fully I know we were inter do we need to get the requirement down for how many people it

Ali Hardestytakes for to be an orgy it was more than three I consider that an orgy but maybe it's not I'm 27 27 okay so I was 25 at the time uh so so you were so you were you

Ali Hardestywere in an orgy and uh and then you met you met this guy well I guess I knew him prior to that but just like that's when we really got close and I got to know him were they like high-fiving over your head or something like

Ali Hardestythat so okay you were you broke up 20 days ago who broke up with who I broke up with him why uh there was a few reasons it was a little similar to what

Ali Hardestyshe was talking about I do only fans and he was really comfortable just like kind of living at my place using my car and and um we were at Coachella and um some things had happened there

Ali Hardestyand he was like with another girl he told her we were in an open relationship which we weren't we were completely monogamous when we got together and then when I broke up with him he vandalized

Brian Atlasmy car oo Good Times mhm times I sure know how to pick him uh so he was he had nothing going for him he was living at your place I'm not going to say he had

Ali Hardestynothing going for him but I I am not shallow I wasn't going to break up with him from like just lack of ambition alone so it really took him kind of like

Ali Hardestybeing sneaky weird like cuz I always thought he was so loyal and that's why I was with him I was like oh he treats me so good he's so sweet and then when I started to realize that he was maybe not doing that I was like I'm out well you

Brian Atlasmet him at a for right you met him yeah but that was two years ago we weren't together then okay but somebody who's somebody who has an inclination towards that kind of so

Brian Atlasuh sexual conduct is probably not the best bet for like well down the road I'm going to have a monogamous relationship with this person well I think that like with certain people you could like choose to be poly and then other people

Andrew Wilsonyou choose to be in a committed relationship so I disagree with well hang on so if if you don't mind if I ask a few questions here sure uh can I give you a scenario sure let us imagine for a

Andrew Wilsonmoment that this relationship that you had with this gentleman worked out and you're uh 35 5 years old and you're sitting around with uh little Stephanie your daughter and she says mommy how'd

Andrew Wilsonyou meet Daddy and you're like well we were at a [ __ ] gang bang and uh you know there was uh there was body fluids going all over the place and uh they high-fived over my head and I knew then

Andrew Wilsonyour dad was the one for me like does that sound like maybe maybe if you think about that in the future that future conversation does that maybe produce red flags in your head I thought

Ali Hardestyit was was cute like a love story you know I mean we didn't have to tell our kid that per se we could just say we met like for mutual friends spark yeah that's true me up

Ali Hardestylike it's not like I was the first time meeting him but like I had met him pretty recent before that so yeah good times well I mean but you would have to

Ali Hardestythen lie to your kids right I would be honest then I don't really have a problem old be honest right yeah I mean I'm going has to be honest about me doing only fans like all sorts of things so I'm not a liar I'm not a I mean would

Andrew Wilsonit would it make you uncomfortable to have that conversation at 35 with little Stephanie with the origin story of how I met your father was at a gang bang I think like you know when people become a certain age you're going to have the

Ali Hardestyconversation about the birds and the bees and stuff like that anyways I don't think when they you know are like a newborn baby or like a toddler I need to like necessarily be sharing those details

Andrew Wilsonno but I mean even 12 13 right something in there when kids are starting to go through puberty and they become uh curious about that type of thing you know what I mean and they're asking

Ali Hardestyabout it would you feel any shame at all telling that story to little Stephanie I think that they could learn from my experiences both negative and positive and I could teach them about safe sex

Ali Hardestyand you know times where maybe like I wasn't being that safe and so say a safe way to do an orgy that's what you want to teach little Stephanie wait sorry two people are talking I was asking what if somebody else told Stephanie that story

Ali Hardestyhow would you feel about about how you met him I'm not really ashamed of it honestly it is what it is I was also like there were boundaries and like we

Ali Hardestybecame very very close friends before we ever got together and at the time I was just with that partner who I was like experimenting and doing those things with is he still friends with the guy like they already weren't friends before that happened oh they were just

Brian Atlasokay well they were friends at the time but they fell out like long before we got together okay so you ended it 20 days ago uh has there been a rebound no I've been completely celibate

Brian Atlassingle okay you have a question for no sorry I asked oh she already answered she answer it all right and uh okay no rebound no guys in the picture no nothing I don't

Ali Hardestythe tolerance right now no tolerance you're sick are you sick of men sick and tired sick and tired to therapy that's what I'm doing okay you said that you uh well but you might be only an orgy away

Ali Hardestyfrom Mr Wright no I actually like was very keen on no longer participating in that stuff which this boyfriend knew which is why when he told the girl at Coachella we were open I was like I'm

Ali HardestyI'm out you know that's not true so I those days are over I'm no longer fun anymore during those days dur think that that's true yeah thank you that's what

Brian Atlashe said so during those days during those days how how many uh like orgies were you participating in have well again Define orgy cuz I guess four

Ali Hardestydoesn't count as one I never I guess never had one of community yeah with him only with him well would you go to like sex parties would you go to sex parties yeah how many not many how many did you

Ali Hardestygo to uh actually that's a lie I I've been to a few actually more than 10 what's that more than 10 Oh No 5 to 10 sex parties let's say five okay and you

Ali Hardestywould have sex with your partner or you would like swap I was only with him and uh there were times where I've been to parties like that and I'm just watching or like interacting but like not having

Aspenintercourse so was your partner with other people we would have three Subs a lot what's that like to just watch just sit there and watch while people do that yeah I couldn't do that it's interesting it can be really

Ali Hardestyoverwhelming and I would get turned on by watching him with other people but then you know you experience things like jealousy which is natural but usually would experience that more like if it was like after the fact like if it was

Aspenjust like in the moment like I actually really liked it sure what about you oh um so I've my longest relationship was

Aspenlike probably 5 years on and off it was really bad and then one from age 21 to now I have been single wait hold on uh

Aspenso your current relationship status is single single and you said from 21 to 28 you've been single yeah like did you say I've gone on dates and I there was I talked to one guy in that time and

Brian Atlasotherwise I've been single so you've been single for eight years probably seven okay seven you've been single for seven years you were in

Aspena 5year relationship from uh what age to what age um it was like 17 to 21 is so I see and you said it was on again off

Brian Atlasagain yeah how many times was it on off oh my gosh probably like 20 times 20 times it was so bad

Brian Atlasis that fairly like is it you think it's more 30 40 50 times I think probably 20 20 fair I hope not more than 20 but more

Aspenoften than not who was making it off me turn me like exclusively all the 20 times um well no there was one there was one time where he had like gotten a new

Aspengirlfriend and that was like and he like didn't message me that time and I found out about it and so I guess that would be him like so you would break up with him I would break up with him yeah and then but if

Brian Atlashe got a girlfriend I was like trying to win him back so who would of the 20 or so times who would try to rekindle things was it split always him him always trying to get me back trying to

Brian Atlasget you back and you would take him back typically how long I know sometimes there there would be variants what would be the break typically in these off periods one month two month 3 months a week um what was the shortest what was

Aspenthe longest okay maybe like 3 days till like like 2 weeks two weeks was the longest off period no there's probably months there's probably some months periods in there I see it's so long ago

Brian AtlasI'm trying to block it out of my memory and typically what precipitated you ending things um coming to my

Demi Hawkssenses sometimes you just have to go back until you hate them yeah that's whated that's what actually what happened was well what would he do to

Aspentell me that to us getting back together no to precipitate a a you ending thing even if temporary um was he cheating he was cheating constantly cheating

Aspenconstantly con did you cheat on him at all no no okay so he cheated on you like 20 times then cuz you said it was it might have been 20 I don't know definitely

Aspendefinitely more than 10 why did you keep going back uh cuz I loved him and my own brain that's what I told myself I was like I would rather chop my arms and

Aspenlegs off that's how I felt I was like then what I would then then not end up with him yeah wait hold on wait you'd rather chop your then then not be with

Aspenhim or pain the pain of him and I not working out like was was like I I would rather deal with any kind of hurt deal with any kind of wrong thing that he did to me or whatever and try to try to make

Aspenit work because the pain of like severing that relationship that I had with him was like so painful so it would always lead me like it's then he'd be all sweet and be like you're the love of my life you're this you're that and I would end up getting back with him

Aspenwhen's the last time you spoke with him um he accidentally called my phone um maybe last year have you so you said you've been

Brian Atlassingle for seven years yeah in that sevene period did you guys have any contact no except for like a year ago

Brian Atlasyou said he accidentally texted you yeah okay so then let's see you've in that seven-year period have you been you said there was one guy you dated there was

Aspenone guy that I was like interested in in that seven years and how long did you date him um it we probably went on like three dates maybe four dates and that was like over like 3 months did you guys

Aspenwas there carnal knowledge um there was intim Y in that relationship yes there was and was that but is that the only guy that you've had caral knowledge with in yes seven years

Aspenhow long ago was that that was two years ago so you were selib it for 5 years and then two years yeah and I was so upset that I like gave

Brian Atlasinto that cuz I had really been Trucking along okay and so was this guy that you were on and excuse me on and off again with five

Brian Atlasyear for 5 years uh are these other guys that have come along have they just not been up to Snuff as compared to him like the other other people I've gone on dates with

Brian Atlaswell like can you explain like can you describe your uh your partner The Five-Year one like what do you mean describe him like some physical characteristics

Aspenpersonality tall skater Punk jobless how tall six probably 6 three 6'2

Aspenfit scrawny skater skater boy yeah treated you like [ __ ] no it's 63 cheated on me he just cheated on me okay but he treated you well otherwise um I mean

Aspenexcept for he didn't have a job and like didn't had no ambition and lied and yeah uh was did he have good personality

Aspenthough um he was really I he was really creative umh but did he have a good personal and he was really outdoorsy and

Aspenlike yeah I don't know did he have game did he have game RZ no no RZ no he's handsome he's handsome goodl looking guy he's good looking guy very handsome guy

Aspenvery handsome guy I'm trying to get into another relationship dude so so then so then he uh hold on

Brian Atlaswait was I mean was the sex really good was that it I'm not going to talk about that well that's fair I'm not not going to talk about he was my first he was my first oh

Aspenhe took ah okay so I think I think that that and that had like a huge part of me being like I would rather chop my arms and legs than wait I have a question for you so if you could talk to yourself

Aspenback then I just I would just punch myself in the head that's what I would what I would just I would just like grab myself and Shake be like I just want to know what would you tell yourself back

Aspenthen okay actually what I would say is you don't you don't understand how much your husband's going to love you you

Aspendon't understand how valuable you are that's what I would say to myself um and that's what I plan on saying to my

Aspenchildren like what we have as women is like so unique and so beautiful

Brian Atlasand what what you have as women is so unique what precisely do the sexual connection that you can have but in your

Andrew Wilsonrelationship with your spouse well how's that yeah I was I was looking in my notes here um and and forgive me if I got this wrong uh are you are you currently married me no yeah no okay no

Andrew Wilsonno just let everybody know no she talking about her future husband okay so the reason I asked CU it's odd um she had asked what would you go back and tell yourself and you said I would tell myself that you don't even know what the

Aspenrelationship between you and your future spouse is going to be like yeah but what's the frame of reference there um I think like the the promise of

Aspenlike um like I have many people in my life that are in very strong good relationships with their husband or wife and they're in love with them and um un

Aspenunderstanding that like there really is somebody out there for me I just have to wait until God brings that person into my life and um okay so it's like holding on to that hope of yeah yeah I understand I just wanted to understand

Andrew Wilsonthe mentality and then my last question before I turn back over to Brian um would you describe this guy as a

Aspennarcissist me yeah um I don't know I probably not no I don't think that he was a narcissist was he a sex addict is

Nicolethat why you think I never asked him I just asked cuz my my toxic ex like was definitely a sex addict and sometimes that's why people have a hard time staying faithful I don't know I don't

Brian Atlasknow we should find out I don't know he should find out so okay the guy you were with for 5 years uh that was the first guy you were ever with in an intimate so

Brian Atlasyou've only been with two guys yes okay I didn't say that on the last on the last show yeah sure

Aspenso aside from that one what you call it the slip up the yeah you you almost been cibit for years was not like a night and it was like I I actually had feelings

Aspenfor him but you guys only hung out a couple times it sounded like yeah okay so sell it for 5 years slip slip up I guess I Sor we would we only went on

Aspenprobably like three or four proper dates yeah but like I would he would like come see me before work and like bring me food or like um there would be like

Aspenlittle thing like little times that we'd see each other and so it wasn't it was there was a relationship that was like being built

Brian Atlaswhy so why did you you lose interest in him um I think I just realized that like

Aspenwe had a lot of different core values um he he had let me down a few different times and um how so so so like we were

Aspenhim and I were actually supposed to hang out last month and he he had after we had like broke everything off and um he basically he was like saying that

Aspenhe like had been working on all this stuff that he was like you know really trying to do and um like he was I think he was like he for him it really mattered to him that he like lost weight

Aspenand like got off a couple of these meds and um anyway so he finally reached out to me where he was at a spot where I think he felt like he really could have be in a Rel relationship with somebody and then he

Aspenhe said all right let's hang out Thursday I told him what days I was free and then on Thursday I was like are you going to bail on me because he wasn't texting me he wasn't texting me at all and he had already done this to me like

Aspena couple times where he just like kind of brushed off something that like I assumed was like intentional and anyways and so basically he I waited until the

Aspentime that we were supposed to go on our date and he never messaged me and I just blocked him and that was it wait but this was a month ago this so you guys reconnected he reached back out to you or you reached back out to he

Aspenreached out to me and I said what are you doing in my DMs get out of here and then I like entertained it and then I entertained it yeah okay I'll be honest like I did entertain it cuz I really

Aspenlike I really enjoyed him like his company like he's so funny but I knew like that it was never going to work wait okay so just going back here though

Aspenso you went on how many with him three or four maybe five I how many times did you see him in person oh my God uh in person oh probably like 10 or 12 times

Aspenoh what's the differentiation between like him seeing him in person going on a date well I don't feel like him dropping food off for me before I go into work is

Brian Atlasa like you know I'm saying you spent you spent seeing him imagine seeing him for one minute I I wouldn't count that as like you know

Aspenmeeting up or a date really when I say meet up I mean like you actually spent a couple hours together so we he took me on a date we went shooting one time and and

Aspenthen uh he took me out to dinner a couple other times yeah and then so you guys but that was it and then he broke up with you no we went we went to go

Aspenhang out and and uh like go to dinner and it just naturally came up in conversation like yeah like you and I both know that we have different core values so I don't know who said that I

Aspendid because he didn't say anything what do you mean he didn't say anything like he just I don't know I don't know I don't know how to describe it he was he would

Brian Atlasnot tell me what was going on in his head at all wait but so what if there's nothing going on like

Brian AtlasI think I think women women have this tendency to be like what's wrong is like and if we say we're good we're good there's nothing we're not thinking about he was saying that he

Aspenwas good he was like I didn't I didn't know if he wanted to date me I didn't know if he wanted to like would you ask him just say absolutely no I didn't ask him I didn't be like you want to date me

Aspenno I didn't do that well did you ask him like oh what are you looking for or anything what are we yeah what are we no because I wasn't trying to like put any

Aspenpressure on on him I just enjoyed hanging out with him and like was like maybe this will go somewhere but then and then it was like he didn't want to like go out like he didn't want to take me on dates I okay this is what I really

Aspenthink it was I think that and I hope that he doesn't see this cuz I would feel really bad but I think that he like has like is maybe like self-conscious

Aspenand like had a lot of anxiety about going out and stuff like that and what is that why you no sorry sorry keep going keep going I really this is really what I think the core values that were

Aspendifferent if you don't mind me asking I would I'm a Christian MH and he's not okay yeah wait so okay hold on

Brian Atlastalk to me so you went on how many like dude I don't Hangouts don't include he dropped food off you saw him for 2 minutes okay

Demi Hawkshow many times do you guys spend together for a couple hours oh including dates maybe three or four no more than that five six seven well what do you

Aspencount as a date like what's your a date a date is like maybe like an extended period of time where we go and do something that is planned like yes but

Demi Hawksthe date it's a couple hours and you do an activity or you eat food or something and that's a date yeah what would you call a date okay I just pretty much that but like everybody kind of has different standards of like the way I'm using date

Brian Atlasthe way I'm using date is it doesn't necessarily mean you have to go out in public together it's just you've hung out and spent time together could be at his house your house yeah I'm trying that can included in at least in my

Aspenframework that could include what a date is what what are you trying to figure out with like the whole like how many times did you guys date well so okay you said you hooked up with him right yes so

Brian Atlaswhat date the third date fourth date something like that probably like the third or fourth date okay so then you guys no sorry no probably further into that because so you hooked you hooked up with

Brian Atlashim once or twice how many times two three times I I don't want to go into like that I have a reason for why I'm asking I'm not just like Curious like oh I really like you

Aspenknow I don't I don't want it would be helpful it would be helpful in analyzing this well because you you said you had a difference of Valu I wasn't hanging I was not sleeping with him every time I

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