NEVER Had A Boyfriend At 38/33?! VlRGlN Until 26?! Brian CONFRONTED On Marriage?! | Dating Talk #272

Date: 2025-12-08

Duration: 7h 11m

Guests

Brian Atlas

BBella (Pre-Law)>

SSabrina (Diabetic)>

JJacqueline Thomas >

FFelicity Hughes >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_02Felicity Hughes(guest)

SPEAKER_03Haley(guest)

SPEAKER_04Jacqueline Thomas(guest)

SPEAKER_05Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_07Sierra(guest)

SPEAKER_08Dakota(guest)

SPEAKER_10Sabrina (Diabetic)(guest)

SPEAKER_12Sativa(guest)

SPEAKER_13Bella (pre-law)(guest)

Key Moments

IntroAll guests introduce themselves

Key MomentDakota lost virginity at 26 to Olympic snowboarder

Key MomentHaley's 15-month situationship: he dates others, she's exclusive

ControversyBrian's bow/laundry expectations spark debate

Key MomentDakota's father is trans (transitioned 2016), tore family apart

QuoteSativa: abortion was biggest regret, wanted to kill herself, year of therapy

Topics Discussed

Guest Introductions

7 guests + Felicity.

Dakota's Snowboarder

Lost virginity at 26 to Olympic snowboarder at X Games party.

Haley's 15-Month Situationship

Seeing a guy who dates others and refuses to commit.

Bow/Laundry Debate

Brian's ex bowing video + laundry expectations.

Haley Tinder Stories

Walked home 4 hours after hookup. Date roofied himself.

Dakota's Trans Father

Father transitioned 2016. Tore family apart.

Sativa's Abortion Regret

Biggest regret. Wanted to kill herself. Year of therapy.

Marriage Debate

Brian vs Jacqueline on benefits of marriage.

Transcript

Page 4 of 8

Brian Atlas>> It's going to give me like poison. >> Is that like illegal to >> It's unsafe. >> It's not illegal to >> like if you're on the streets the mean streets and you're like are and you're

Sabrina (Diabetic)trafficking insulin. Is that like technically a crime? It I believe it should be because >> like if I was trying to legally get insulin like am I gigafucked? >> Um there's no way to legally get it on

Sabrina (Diabetic)the street. So I think any like selling of medicine on the street is illegal. Even if >> if it's a prescription >> if it's a prescription, not if it's Advil, but yes, you can get it on the dark web.

Brian Atlas>> Okay. >> My bodybuilder boyfriend about illegal insulin. >> Look, I'm trying to I'm trying to hook a girl up. I'm trying to get get her some insulin.

Sabrina (Diabetic)Okay. [laughter] All right. I'm just looking out, you know. >> Yeah. Thanks. >> Yeah. >> Is there like So, what did people do before? Like, did they just die? >> They just died. Well, they used like cow

Sabrina (Diabetic)insulin for a while from animals, but I think that was only from the 70s or 60s onward. >> Nice. >> Before that, it was death. >> You're You're just Damn. >> Yeah. >> Good times. >> Yeah.

Brian Atlas>> Yeah. That's good times. Um, okay. Getting back into the notes though, we have uh Oh, the girlfriend boyfriend application. >> Oh, yes. >> What would going around the table to open up to the whole panel though, if

Brian Atlasyou were to make a boyfriend application, what would you put on it? Maybe I maybe there's a lot, but maybe give us like two or three things lookswise and like two or three things

Bella (pre-law)not lookswise, personalitywise. >> Okay. Um, tall preferably, like brunette. Um, >> good good build. Like you don't have to be like built built, but like you take

Bella (pre-law)care of yourself, you know what I mean? Um, personalitywise, very like adventurous and stuff cuz I really like traveling. And then probably

Sierravery generous. I like generosity a lot. >> Okay. Uh, well, we kind of did yours. >> Yeah. >> Looks wise, I'm not too picky. Um,

Sierrasomewhere between 5'8, 510 as far as height. Um I more so go for like character and personality. Sure. >> Um so somebody who has a provider

Sierramindset, somebody who is compassionate and empathetic and um very motivated and like growth mindset, always trying to do better. >> Okay. >> Um six foot

Dakotabrunette preferably, although I don't really care. Um and uh travels for work is a plus. Yeah, separate uh houses would be great.

Brian Atlas>> Separate houses. >> Yeah, >> I like my [clears throat] space. >> But wouldn't >> you're if you're just meeting them, >> you said my perfect guy.

Brian Atlas>> No, just like if you had to put out a boyfriend application, what are some of the things that >> not maybe not a boyfriend application, but like what are some of the criteria

Brian Atlasthat you would use to judge a potential boyfriend application? um loves animals. >> That's high on >> Yeah, it really is. Yeah, I care a lot. Um uh

Dakota>> what if they just like animals? >> That's okay. Yeah, they're not like >> I would never date someone who doesn't like dogs, for instance. You know what I mean? Like >> they have to That's weird. >> Sure. There's some people that >> It's not that they like are animal

Sativaabusers, but they >> but they just don't like animals. >> They prefer to not be around animals, >> right? And I love them. So, um >> Yeah. >> All right. What about you? >> Um, definitely taller than me. And then

SativaI I really like the white redneck thing. I I just really love >> You like white guys? >> Yes, I do. >> Is your current boyfriend white guy? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> And [laughter] redneck. >> Yes. >> Wow.

Brian Atlas>> And a redneck. Uh, well, you're married, so I mean probably no boyfriend applications and your future, but do you want to just say some of the positive characteristics you like about your

Jacqueline Thomashusband? I would say the first thing would be fit and healthy so that I would want to talk to him. The next [clears throat] would be Christian and

Jacqueline Thomasthen the next would be and probably last for starters would be had to be really really really smart. >> Nice. Okay. What about you? >> Uh I don't know. If you didn't cheat on me, that'd be nice. That's probably

Brian Atlasabout it. >> Damn. Give this girl a [ __ ] [laughter] >> Damn. It's tough out here. >> That's about it. Yeah, I know. >> Okay. Um, let's see. I guess moving on then. Uh, oh, I guess I could do what

Brian Atlaswhat I would what I would want. Okay. I I wrote it down actually uh in preparation for this segment. Uh, let's see here. Okay. Any race is fine, but slight preference for Asian women and or white women.

Brian Atlas>> Hell yeah, Asians. >> I will allow allowian of course. Uh, but you know, I've dated I would date Latinos. Totally fine. But that's my

Brian Atlasslight preference. Um, let's see. Um, we'll do looks and personality. So, I guess I'm starting with looks here. Uh,

Brian Atlasuh, natural body supremacist. So, like it's not 100% a deal breaker. Not not 100% a dealb breakaker, but preference for like no plastic surgery, I guess.

Brian AtlasUm, not a deal breaker, but strong preference for and it depends the plastic surgery like

Brian AtlasBBL. Not not a not not a huge fan of that. Um, prefer Yeah, prefer more on the natural

Brian Atlasside. Less or no makeup. Um, yeah. Uh, what else? Uh, I don't care about boobs. I mean, nice big boobs, whatever. That's fine. I'm not

Brian Atlaslike a I don't really care that much about ass. The [ __ ] is this combo? [laughter] I feel like I'm I'm wording this completely wrong. Like a nice like

Brian AtlasA cup, B cup, C cup, don't care. Whatever. Uh not to say that like C cups, D cups, whatever. Not it's not that I don't like it. I'm just saying I don't care. Uh but you know, whatever. I'm a I'm a labia guy.

Brian Atlas>> [snorts] >> # big labia matter. BLM >> BLM >> # >> BLM. It's the pressing issue of our time. Um, yeah, I just it's kind of a strong preference there.

Brian AtlasLike I'm not a butt guy. You know how like there's a boob boob guys and butt guys. I'm a labia guy. >> I was Yeah, he's a large labia. >> Have you been with a girl with like a big fat ass before? [snorts] [laughter]

Brian Atlas>> Because I feel like that's why maybe you're not into it. You haven't had like >> I haven't I've Okay, hold on. >> Okay. I [laughter] don't know. I've had the spectrum of >> Oh, of everything. >> I've I've had a diversity. I'm I'm a

Brian Atlas>> a well diverse. >> I'm a DEI. Uh, I guess. >> Oh, okay. [laughter] >> Yeah. I've had diverse body types, I guess you could say. >> What don't you like about it? >> About what? Big ass. >> Big butt. Yeah. Big butt.

Brian Atlas>> No, it's not it's not that I dislike it. Like, don't get me wrong, it's not like how do I explain this? Like [sighs] >> like a nonBBL big butt like a natural.

Brian AtlasSo, like for example, if a woman has an A cup or is flat, that's not like some guys might be like, I prefer girl with like I it's never a consideration. Now, not to say that like if you were to ask

Brian Atlasme, okay, well, Brian, show us a picture or like explain what like perhaps you think the like optimal or best looking breast size is. Not to say that it wouldn't necessarily it might be like C

Brian Atlascup or I don't know whatever. I could I would probably lean more towards like something that's bigger than A cup, but that's not to say that I would not I'm incapable of being insanely attracted to a woman who does have a cup or is flat

Sabrina (Diabetic)or whatever. >> Are you like a face guy? >> Face important, but Leia >> Oh, number one. >> High on the list. >> High on the list, I would say. But um the butt thing, what was your question? I was just surprised that you were just

Brian Atlaslike you don't care if if someone's like flat or not. >> So I think shape >> oversize. >> Yeah. >> Shape over size cuz there's some [ __ ] diaper butts

Sabrina (Diabetic)>> that are huge. >> Not a not a but like I I think >> the the Are you talking like a thick

Brian Atlasgirl? No, I mean like a gym girl. Like >> a thick because I I think uh I think the the visually like the thick, >> you know, appealing.

Sabrina (Diabetic)>> Okay. >> But like for for like actual sex >> Yeah. >> I don't know. Like I don't know. >> I don't know either. I don't have a

Brian Atlas>> I I'm just saying it kind of it can complicate things in the bedroom if she's a if she's a thicky icky. >> Well, but that's what I'm saying. Like a gym girl. Like a thin but like nice butt. Like a >> Well, nice butt. But you're talking big butt.

Sabrina (Diabetic)>> Well, by big I mean like a gym big butt. Not like >> Are you talking a badonadon? >> No. [laughter] No. No. I mean like summer. Do you know who Summer is? >> Summer. Yeah, I think I know. >> Oh, like Sophia.

Sabrina (Diabetic)This type of natural big. But that's more shape. I guess you probably like him then. >> Not like a Kylie Jenner. >> I think shape >> can is a bit better. >> All right.

Brian Atlas>> But like if she doesn't have a great ass or I don't care. That's not a deal breaker. But look, I don't get me wrong, like I I I am a fan. I enjoy a nice ass. >> I enjoy a nice ass. You know what? >> There's that accent.

Brian Atlas>> But it's not a deal breaker. It's not a deal breaker. Like it's not like, oh, she's got a small bum. Like I can't date. No, I don't really care. Um,

Brian Atlasbut like the the problem with the big ass though, like the big ass is, look, I'mma be it came up earlier. That guy had a a Twitch username.

Brian AtlasBrian's teeny penis. [laughter] My penis size is average. And sometimes, you know, look, and I'm not I'm not packing a 10 incher. You know, if she's got [ __ ] thunder thighs [laughter] and a

Brian Atlasgiant [ __ ] ass, certain sexual positions are off the table for a guy like me. So, what I'm saying is I'm saying is I'm a guy who likes a woman on top, okay? I'm not trying to get

Brian Atlascrushed, okay? I'm not trying to get crushed. Give me a little petite girl with a nice ass and I can make it work, okay? But if [ __ ] ass is a bit too big, I'm sorry. on top. Her on top, which is

Brian Atlasone of my favorites, it's not going to work. Doggy style, you can get around it a little bit. [laughter] Doggy style is effective even for a [ __ ] thick girl. You know what I'm You know what I'm [ __ ] saying, right? But anyways, [laughter] what was I saying? Look, I'm

Brian Atlasjust saying. I'm telling you, these thick girls, you know, sometimes these guys, they think the bigger the better. But I'm telling you, in the bedroom, sometimes it can cause some situations. It can be it can be some complications. I'm telling you, you take a girl, it's

Brian Atlaslike, >> can you even get there? No. >> Can you even get to the vagina sometimes? I guess. Look, as a guy who's average size, sometimes >> I can't even, you know, I can't even I'm scared sometimes, you know.

Brian Atlas>> I understand this. >> That's a lot of weight coming down. That's gravity. >> That's scary. >> That's gravity. You know, she's going too quick. >> I could have a broken penis. I'm not trying to do it. I need a girl I can kind of control, you know, control a little bit in the bedroom.

Brian Atlas>> I see a nice >> She's throwing that [ __ ] back and she's got Oh my god, it's too much. You know, >> I understand. He's got too much cushion for the pushing. I No, I can't. >> You ain't packing like that. >> It's average. I'm not saying I

Brian Atlas[laughter] got Look, I'm just being honest. I'm not I don't have a micro penis. It's just I have an average penis. >> Okay. >> And look, save the the the thick women. Save it for the the BBC or whatever. Save it for the the guys with the big

Sativadicks. >> Yeah. I'm I'm going to say kind of like a thicker girl. I've some of the issues he's saying, I actually have experienced that. >> Does it suck? Like what happens? You learned to fake it really well. >> Wait, fake it.

Brian Atlas>> Fake it. >> Look, there are positions even with a thick girl I can still get access to. I'm just saying if on top if it's harder

Brian Atlasif she's got big legs and giant ass, it's hard to get there, you know. >> No. And >> I'm like, it's just the tip. >> Yeah. And honestly, even with some like

Sativabeing on top, >> it sometimes it still doesn't >> it it could fall out, you know? I get it. >> I think that's just the size. >> Yeah, but that's what I'm saying that like obviously

Haleythese were probably less than average men as well. So, but >> Oh, wow. >> Yeah. >> I was I was young. >> I'm I'm curious why fake it? I mean,

Sativathat doesn't help a dude either. Agreed. That's bad communication about not fake. >> It was I was super young and it wasn't like anything serious. Like after that I never spoke to him again. So

Sativa>> I'm sure every girl at this table has faked it at least. >> I mean really? Wow. >> I do not inflate. >> I faked an orgasm once. [laughter] >> Really? >> How do you do that as a man? Well, I mean there's

Brian Atlas>> there's a concept, so it was a bit easier. And um >> Wait, why did why did you do that as a guy? >> I just >> You just weren't feeling it all.

Brian Atlas>> Look, I I don't think you should fake it. I've never I faked it one time and you shouldn't fake it. It's bad. >> Yeah, but >> I did it. Don't worry about it. >> I'm just curious. Why would a guy do that?

Felicity Hughes>> Help herself. I needed to help her self-esteem. >> Wow. >> She needed it. >> Yeah. He's a hero, guys. He's a hero. >> She was She was struggling. So, I >> You know how the woman that fake it. >> Hey, I'm a nice guy. I came in and I, you know, I fake it.

Felicity Hughes>> Huh? >> I don't fake it. >> Congratulations, Felicity. >> I'm not a fraud like you. >> It was one time. Okay. >> Just kidding. >> It was one time. >> Just kidding. >> Is that the Yo, wait. Leave it there,

Brian AtlasNick. Do you guys see the moon? Is that the moon? like, >> "Oh, I think I see what you're saying." The yellow the yellow dot >> W moon. >> Shout out shout out to the moon joining

Brian Atlasus for our [ __ ] dating podcast. Welcome to the uh welcome. The moon has seen some crazy [ __ ] Seen a lot of people [ __ ] in public, >> let me tell you. >> Yeah. Oh, wow. >> If the moon had eyes,

Felicity Hughes>> have you done that before? >> Yeah. >> You've had sex in public? >> On the beach? Oh, >> probably in a park >> in like a family.

Brian Atlas>> It's been a minute though. It was when I was young. It was when I was young. >> I was like, you know, you don't have your own place and it's like, oh, I could [ __ ] in the car or I could [ __ ] in the beach. Actually, I don't think I [ __ ] in the car.

Brian AtlasI had sex on the beach though a couple times. And let me tell you >> at night >> at night. And let me tell you, not great. [laughter] Not great.

Brian AtlasAnd then the [ __ ] tide was coming in and we were going at it and it >> What do you do? You know what do you do? >> We got the [ __ ] water hit us. >> Oh my god. That's kind of romantic though. No,

Sativa>> that's >> I can see that actually. >> That's more like a movie, you know? Maybe in real life it's not as like practical, >> but in a movie it looks nice. >> It's a nice idea. >> Yeah, with the sunset or something. How

Brian Atlasdid we get Oh, the Oh, the Oh, the I should I I must be coming across as incredibly superficial just talking about boobs and butts and labias and penis. >> Let me talk about what I'm look Yes. And

Brian Atlaslet me talk about what I'm looking for uh in terms of personality. Okay. >> Let's see here. I wrote it down. Uh oh

Brian Atlasmy how many Oh my god. What the hell? Hey, don't look. Uh uh let's see. Um I prefer introverted women typically.

Brian AtlasIt's not a dealbreaker for woman's extroverted, but I typically prefer I'm introverted myself, too. Uh so I definitely prefer somebody who matches me there. Uh I'm a bit more I don't like

Brian Atlasto like I don't know, more of a homebody. I mean, I I like to go out into nature, but I don't like [ __ ] I don't know, going to festivals and [ __ ] I don't

Brian Atlasknow. Um, what else? Uh, submissive, pleasant. What else? What What else? What else? Uh,

Brian Atlasintroverted, quiet, calm, soft-spoken. Um, yeah. Peaceful. Peace is big. Peace is big. I don't need a girl to be all I don't need

Brian Atlascharisma. I don't need a big personality. I like somebody who's pleasant and can uh you know, it's it's good if we can have a fun convo and enjoy each

Brian Atlasother's presence, but you don't got to be funny. I don't care about that. Got to bring me peace, though. That's important. Got to bring peace. And I don't I don't drink. I don't do drugs. I don't party. I don't smoke. So, I'm if

Brian Atlasshe drinks a little bit, that's okay. But ideally, like very minimal drinking, no partying, no drugs, none of that [ __ ] no bars, no clubs. [snorts]

Brian AtlasAnd uh yeah, acts of service, that's big. She's got to do acts of service.

Brian AtlasAnd shut up, Felicity. Acts of service is big. Um >> like volunteering. [laughter] For me? >> No, I don't want you like going to the

Brian Atlas[ __ ] homeless shelter like at the soup kitchen. Acts of service for me. >> I got it. >> You got to be doing [ __ ] for me. Uh yeah. And uh yeah, acts of service.

Brian AtlasWord. >> Cool. >> Good. Good talk. Okay, on to the next thing. Oh, the bow video. Nick, let's do the bow video. What are you do? What are you doing back there, Nick? Are you >> pants? >> You're putting pants on. By the way, chat, Nick has been naked this entire

Brian Atlastime back there. >> Cole living. >> Nick is putting pants on. He was in his g-string uh before before >> banana hammock. >> Yes. Yeah. That's why that's how we get all the women on the show. We have

Brian Atlas[laughter] Nick is a >> Look, he only has one. >> What is it called? What What is the um a chip andale? Nick is a Chip andale. He's a stripper.

Brian AtlasThat's how you Okay. >> Do we have the bow video? Oh, this is Okay. So, this is a video I took of my ex-girlfriend and um because I was like, "Look, kind of similar to her her

Brian Atlassituation." You know how he was all saying like my next girl. So, I was telling her I was like, "Look, I got to make a tutorial video that I got to show future women. So, I I'm using you as an

Brian Atlasactress." >> That's that went over well. But anyway, so I was like, "Look, I got to take a video because you do such a great job." Like, you're the placeholder. Kind of like her situation.

Brian AtlasYou're the placeholder. >> Why are you like throwing shade for no reason? >> Don't worry about it, Felicity. You're the placeholder. >> Oh. >> So, I'm not you. I'm talking. Yeah.

Brian AtlasYou're the placeholder. So, I have to uh I'm going to You're going to help me with the tutorial cuz I feel like sometimes you got to not all women, you

Brian Atlasknow, some of you get guys have bad habits >> and you got you you got to deal with a a real man. these girls, bro. Uh

Brian Atlas[laughter] to to get you caught up to speed, let me get you caught up to speed on what it takes in 2025, 2026 >> to deal with, you know, to get a man,

Brian Atlas>> a top tier man. >> You know, we got to Well, I hold on. I [laughter] don't I don't like that that kind of categorization, but I'm just saying, you know, I I have to uh sometimes you got to correct bad

Brian Atlasbehaviors. You sometimes you gota >> you need to watch a lot of videos then [laughter] >> you need to watch a lot of videos Felicity but sometimes you gota you know you got to undo certain propaganda. You

Brian Atlasgot to you got to get a woman caught up to speed. So let's go ahead play the video. >> Boom. Huge bow. So that's rule number one. She has to bow as soon as I come home.

Brian Atlas>> She's so beautiful. >> Well, >> oh my god. I love >> She got a lot of help from her doctor. But um >> Okay. Is she Korean? >> She is Korean. So, you know, you know how they do it with the plastic surgery. I think she's Korean. Maybe she's

Brian AtlasChinese. I don't know. >> I never asked her. Um >> has to have my dinner ready, crack open a beer for me, and stir my noodles because obviously I consume noodles

Brian Atlasfrequently. One more time. The bow. Let's just uh play it again. >> Boom. Huge bow. Do you see the depth? You see the submissive hand posture? Do you see the slightly uh inward?

Brian AtlasI guess they're not inward. Whatever. The the submissive handb. So, going around the table, um would you would you do this for your boyfriend, husband, whatever? >> No. >> No. >> Yeah. Pretty cool. >> Okay. You like it >> for my current boyfriend? Yes. >> Yes. >> No.

Dakota>> You You wouldn't do it. Perfect man. >> It depends. >> For the perfect man. >> This is kind of weird. >> Oh, sorry. It's It's a little weird to me, but >> the the bow or the other stuff or all of it? >> All of it. >> All of it. A little weird. I mean, I

Dakotawould do it because I'd love the person that I'm with, but I wouldn't I wouldn't want it to be an obligation by him, you know? >> Obligation. Okay. Yeah. >> Expectation. >> Expectation.

Brian Atlas>> Don't you have expectations, though? >> I've never been in a relationship, so I don't really know. >> Maybe. >> Maybe you like How about this as an

Dakotaexpectation? Don't [ __ ] other people. Well, my rule of thumb is if I find out that you've hooked up with someone else, I get to hook up with someone else. And it could be your brother, your dad, could be your best friend. Yeah. Yeah. >> Is that what you do?

Dakota>> No. I've never been. >> You've never done a revenge [ __ ] >> No. No. No. >> A spite [ __ ] >> No. No. >> Okay. >> Dad. >> Damn. That's gangster. >> Well, you found And you'll [clears throat] never know who it is either.

Brian Atlas>> Wow. That's kind of an L for you, though. I don't >> I feel like that's an L as the girl. Like, okay, well, my boyfriend was a dick, so I'm gonna go [ __ ] a bunch of dudes. That's >> I wouldn't even say that I break up with

Dakotahim and be like, okay, well, you though. So, now I get a whole pass. >> I feel like that's a bit toxic, though. >> It very I've never been in a relationship. >> I think you just break up. You either break up with them >> or I mean, I guess you can accept them

Brian Atlasback. >> Yeah. Sometimes cheating doesn't necessarily mean you're going to break up with them. >> But but you either break up with them or you accept the cheating, I guess, in that instance.

Dakota>> But I think that's the L is the girl to be like, I'mma show you. I'm going to be a [ __ ] >> No, no, no. It would it would be ahead of time. Like I just want to let you know like if you if I find out you cheat on me, like I get to I get to

Brian Atlas>> Yeah, that's still Yeah. If I find out you cheat on me, I'm going to be a [ __ ] That's not >> That's not That's an L for a woman. That's an L for a woman. >> It is a L for a woman. >> That's not That's not a W. That's an L, >> is it?

Brian Atlas>> That's a major L [laughter] for Again, I've never been in that situation. So >> you [ __ ] another chick, by the way. Gu men shouldn't cheat. Women shouldn't cheat. But I'm telling you, that's not that's not like a that's not an own

Dakotalike, "Hey buddy, if you ever cheat on me, I'm going to >> let another guy COME IN MY >> WHAT? >> JEEZ, I would never say that. Yeah, >> that's not that's not a W. >> I'm not calling it a win. I think it's an L on both sides.

Brian Atlas>> Yeah, but that's not like your reven I mean I guess it technically would be revenge if he was upset by the fact that you [ __ ] somebody else, >> but like it's not worth it to [ __ ] somebody else. >> Probably not. >> Did you do that to the Olympic guy?

Brian Atlas>> I've never done that >> cuz he was [ __ ] other people. >> Maybe. Yeah. >> Although it's weird that he talked to you like every day for a year and you guys never met. >> Um okay, great. We were going around the table. [ __ ] I totally What were we

Sativa>> The bowing. >> The bow. Oh, when you bow for your >> Yeah, I would do more than what was in that video. [laughter] >> Good answer. >> Best. >> Good answer. >> What about you? >> Why are we bowing?

Jacqueline Thomas>> Respect. It's a show of respect. >> And we're married or dating? >> It could be boyfriend or it could be married. >> Well, I don't ascribe uh marital privileges to boyfriends. So if it was my husband >> your husband

Brian Atlas>> then >> you go home tonight or wherever your boyfriend next week and you Is your husband here in town? >> No. >> Okay. Well, next time you see your husband. Maybe you think he's watching.

Brian Atlas>> Oh, yeah. He is. Hi, babe. >> What's his Can you say his first name or do you want to keep that private? >> Oh, I don't know. I didn't ask him. >> Okay. Well, probably not. But we'll call him Chad. Uh Chad, >> I like that name.

Jacqueline Thomas>> You must insist on the bow. But um next time you see her. >> But what you would do it if you want. >> He's he's so sweet. I would bow to him and but he wouldn't make me do that. But I I would. >> Okay. What about you? Would you do it?

Haley>> Oh yeah. I would do that. I mean as long as it's not actually serious serious where he's like if you don't do this for me like every time I come into the room you know it's over. I would do I would do that of my own valition. Yeah. Just that's just fun and cute. Be cute be a

Brian Atlaslittle thing. >> Okay. All right. Um, wait. So, no, it was no and then no, I think. >> Depends. >> Wait, how about this? For the not just any guy, the perfect guy, would you hit a bow?

Brian Atlas>> No. >> Really? >> I think it's weird. I don't It's kind of >> Well, I get that it's weird, right? Sure. It might be weird. It might be unorthodox, but not even for the perfect guy. >> No.

Brian Atlas>> So, okay, here, look, [laughter] you're young. You've not dated too much, it sounds like. Here's how the future is going to play out for you. And I could

Brian Atlasbe wrong, right? Um, a lot of women are really dissatisfied with dating. Here's what's going to happen. You're going to jump from guy to guy to guy to guy. You're going to have a series of

Brian Atlasdisappointing relationship after relationship after relationship. Some of which are going to cheat on you. Maybe one or two of which uh hopefully not, but one or two of which might be abusive. You're telling me that for a

Brian Atlascomplete once a day, three seconds, you just have to for the perfect guy never cheats on you, never leaves on, never leaves you is way more attractive, better looking,

Brian Atlasbetter personality than let's be realistic here. Uh there are such thing as leagues. So, you're going to have to be operating in your league in terms of looks, in terms of personality, career,

Brian Atlasetc., etc. The perfect guy in this case would be a 10 out of 10 in looks, 10 out of 10 personality, 10 out of 10 loyalty, 10 out of 10 everything, 10 out of 10 money. So you could be a billionaire. >> You wouldn't bow for a billionaire. >> No.

Brian Atlas>> 10 Oh my goodness. >> It's weird. I don't >> I get that. It's weird. But I'm >> Why would I do that? >> I would honestly for the perfect woman, I would even bow. And that's like [laughter]

Brian Atlasthat I feel like that's even worse because I think if we're looking at things through the lens of like I know you probably aren't like traditional or whatever but like society it's deemed

Brian Atlasmore socially acceptable for a woman to be to do a submissive act. Right? In this case like a bow would be to some degree submissive. >> Now I would still want to lead in this relationship but I'm saying that this

Brian Atlasspecific thing to me is completely benign. and it takes 3 seconds. All I have to do is bow, but I'm still the leader in the relationship. Uh, even though it's like would be socially

Brian Atlasunacceptable to some degree for a man to be submissive. It'd be more socially unacceptable than for a woman to do it, I would still do it for the perfect

Brian Atlaswoman because I can tell you first off, no one's perfect and there's look in relationships you make um you make trade-offs. Mhm. >> So,

Brian Atlasterms of you're not going to probably get the M. You're not >> I don't know if I'm not comfortable doing it. I don't want to do it. Like, >> that's to that's fine. But I I I it's interesting to me like even that super like can I ask you a question? Would you

Brian Atlaslike a guy >> uh to to be chivalous? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, you want >> Everyone wants that, right? >> Women want it. Men don't have any expectation for women to be chivalous.

Brian AtlasUm, do you want a guy to like uh I don't know, maybe there's different forms of it. Uh, open the car door for you. >> Okay. You want a guy to observe the sidewalk rule so when you're walking down the street, he's closer to where

Brian Atlasthe cars are. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Do you want a guy to pay for the first date? >> Yeah. >> Second date? >> Yeah. >> All dates, >> preferably. >> Okay. [laughter] All right. So,

Bella (pre-law)interest. That's That's interesting. Um, what's some other chivalry or >> I'm surprised too. Yeah. >> Would you want a guy to like pick you up for a date? Like he picks you up or >> Yeah. I don't know. The act of bowing. I don't know. Personally for me, it just feels like degrading if that makes sense.

Brian Atlas>> Well, how so? >> Just like I don't know. I just feel like >> Do you want to get married one day? >> Yeah, sure. Okay. Maybe. I don't I don't. >> Do you want him to buy you a ring? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Does it you do you care if it's some people there's like really cheap

Brian Atlaslike $20 rings on Amazon. Would that bother you? I would have bought a lot >> like the tradition would be to, you know, some people go overboard, but the tradition is to spend, you know, buy a nice ring, right? Maybe it's a couple

Brian Atlashundred, maybe it's in the thousands. >> As long as it comes with thought and like they know what I like. >> Do you want a man to get down on one knee when he proposes to you? >> Doesn't have to. >> Well, I'm assuming you want the man to propose, right? Like you don't want to propose, do you?

Brian Atlas>> Like you'd want the man to be the do the traditional thing. >> Yeah. >> So, he proposes to you. >> Mhm. And part of that typically entails having the ring and getting down on one knee, >> right?

Brian Atlas>> Why is this not degrading? >> It's an act of chivalry in compar like do you think bowing is an act of sh I mean I guess >> well women don't do that but I think women will show their submission in various ways but uh and but you probably

Brian Atlascompletely reject being submissive in a relationship but I would say that I actually think that getting down on one knee kneeling

Brian Atlas>> Mhm. is way uh well physically it's it's way more submissive and I think it's way more degrading than a bow. At least a

Bella (pre-law)bow you stay on your feet. Kneeling is some No, it's [ __ ] [ __ ] That's that's I think it's degrading to be. >> Don't you think it's more gentlemanlike though? Like in comparison, like don't you think like majority of people would

Bella (pre-law)think like proposing getting on one knee and like that's more like chivalous and gentlemen comparison to like you're getting your girlfriend to bow for you, you know? >> Well, I think it's within the purview of

Brian Atlaschivalry, but if we're looking at the actual action and I I think I'm understanding you're you're saying that okay, people at least in Western cultures don't bow like white

Brian Atlaspeople don't bow. Um although there like historically if we're looking at like kings and whatever yes that people did bow but that's besides the point. Uh whereas like it is

Brian Atlasthe it is a tradition even today when a man's proposing to a woman to get down on one knee it's not it's deemed like a socially acceptable behavior whereas the bow is not. Mhm.

Brian Atlas>> But the bow is really just a litmus test for are you willing to do a completely benign harmless thing if your man asks for it? >> I just don't think I'm comfortable doing

Brian Atlasit. That's >> But what can you can you >> if I'm uncomfortable in a situation like I don't want to do it. >> But demonstrate the harm. >> There's harm for me. Like I just don't feel like it just doesn't feel right in my head to do it. >> But demonstrate. Yeah. Okay. But what is

Jacqueline Thomasthe harm? like physical or like >> well what would the actual harm be? I >> just feel like not like I don't I don't know. I just feel >> I I think we're watching cognitive dissonance in real time. I think that's

Jacqueline Thomaswhat it is. It's you want the and and I've been there too. You want the chivalry and the feminism, but that's not it's not a reality. You're going to have to war with that idea and you're going to have to come to a a winner of

Jacqueline Thomasthe of the battle. You can't say I want all the cvil stuff, but your husband asks you to do one one minor, you know, subservient act and you're like, "No, why would I do that?" Well, why would we expect him to open your car door, stand

Brian Atlason the side, and do this? >> Well, I don't expect him to do it. I would prefer him to do it, but it's the same thing. He would prefer me to bow, but I don't want to do that. So, >> well, I I mean, I argue most of the men that you go out with pretty much are not going to hold you to any sort of

Brian Atlastraditional expectations. >> Well, yeah. >> Yeah. Like here's my question. [laughter] Like all those but but all those things that we just listed

Brian Atlas>> what is the commensurate thing that women can do that that would be I'm not saying that the woman has to open the car door but what is the commensurate thing the equivalent thing that women

Brian Atlascan do? >> So how do you be chivalous to a man? Well, not chivalous, but what so if women have the expectations,

Bella (pre-law)>> what are the expectations or what what do women do? >> I mean, like no, they they obviously do stuff, >> which is what >> they could

Brian Atlas>> What do you do? >> What I do in a relationship? Well, what maybe not in a relationship, >> but what are the things that women do that are equivalent or commensurate to

Brian Atlasthe various chival chivalous acts that women uh want or sometimes even demand or expect at the very forefront of dating and relationships? >> Feel like it depends on the person. I mean,

Bella (pre-law)>> they don't do anything. >> No, I feel like they can like you I feel like usually women like cook and stuff and like do like laundry for them. Yeah. >> Oh, okay. So, >> well, I mean, I have another position. I think the first time a girl ever comes

Brian Atlasover to my house, she should do my laundry. Would you do that? >> Not for me. I'm just >> Would you do that? [laughter] >> Like a first like date kind of thing? >> Not necessarily the first date, but the first time you're at his house? >> I don't think I would.

Bella (pre-law)>> You don't think you would do it? >> No. I wouldn't expect him to like >> You expect a guy to pay for your date, though? >> Yeah. That's I mean would would you really go want to go on a date with a

Brian Atlasguy that doesn't want to pay? Like >> Well, I'm a man and straight, so but I assume gay people go about things quite differently. But >> uh you're Wait, hold on. Can you repeat

Bella (pre-law)that last part? >> Like wouldn't you would any like woman really want to go on a date with a guy that doesn't want to pay? >> Now we're getting somewhere interesting. Okay. >> I've paid for guys on dates. >> I've paid for guys on dates, too. Okay.

Bella (pre-law)Why do you say why do you say would a woman really want to go on a date with somebody who doesn't want to pay? Why is that? >> Well, it's cuz usually the guy's like asking you out on the date. I feel like it's the mainly the respectful thing to do. >> Have you ever asked a guy out on a date?

Brian Atlas>> No. >> Ah, okay. So, you're getting into whoever asks should pay, but whoever asks should pay conveniently ignores the fact that women overwhelmingly never

Brian Atlasinitiate because there's a order of things and men historically have this uh societal expectation that they initiate. Like for example, as a woman, you can

Brian Atlaswait around and guys will come to you whether that's in person, online, and you don't have to do that and you can pick amongst the men that pursue you.

Brian Atlas>> Mh. Unless you're like a really top tier man, women don't pursue. So most men, if if most men did what most women do,

Brian Atlaswhich is nothing, uh they would d virgins. Like most men can't get away with not taking some degree of initiative or engaging in the pursuit because women don't pursue them.

Brian Atlas>> Yeah, that's >> that's just the reality, right? Mhm. >> So I guess when it comes to whoever asked should pay, I would agree with that sentiment if it was the case that men and women

Brian Atlasinitiated at comparable rates. >> Even if it was maybe a bit dominated by men. So if 60% of the time the men initiated, 40% of the time the woman initiated, I'd still be prepared to agree with that. But it's definitely not

Brian Atlas50/50 and it's definitely not even 60/40. I think it's probably 97 to one 100 99%. Men are overwhelmingly the initiators, right? And I I don't think there's a

Brian Atlasproblem with that. I'm not complaining, but I do think it is sort of this, you know, convenient uh thing to just say, well, men are if you ask somebody out, well, you should

Brian Atlaspay. Well, if there's like massive social pressure that precludes women from being initiators, well, I don't know if it's social pressure, more so like a place of privilege. Like, if a girl comes to me, like, y'all y'all have

Brian Atlashad this [ __ ] unlocked for a minute. Things are changing a little bit. But like, you have way more leverage. If you're the one being pursued, you have way more leverage. Women don't want to

Brian Atlasgive up their leverage. If a girl's coming to me, I can set what it's going to be. I can dictate the terms. Now, you can still kind of do that as the pursuer

Brian Atlasto some degree, but like if a girl's coming to you, it's going to be my way. Things are going to be my way if a girl's coming to me. And whereas the reverse, things are

Sativaa little different. So, >> yeah. I also think it's interesting how like I think you kind of listed a lot of like wants and expectations from a man.

SativaThen you have to really think like it's almost like why should you get that if you're not willing to like give a little as well. And I'm not even talking about finances or anything that I'm talking

Sativaabout again that submission. You know what I'm saying? So it's like pay for this, open my door, protect me this this this let me but let me do whatever I want as well. >> But like in the context of bowing like I just I just don't feel comfortable. Like

Bella (pre-law)I feel I don't know. I just feel I would feel bad about myself and I I'd hope like my partner wouldn't want me to feel bad about myself if I do this action for them. So I'd hope that they'd like understand that.

Brian Atlas>> I you know it's I I understand that and I get the bow like culturally is peculiar. It's unorthodox. It's not something that we do. Um but in this

Brian Atlascase something that I mean I asked about the the cooking or the cleaning or the doing the laundry. Uh, and what's interesting to me is, and I'm not saying

Brian Atlasthis is the case for you, but like you'll have women who will have no problem having uh, sex right away, have

Brian Atlasuh, you know, and I'm not saying that that's wrong, but I think it's interesting. On one hand, you'll have a woman who will like give her entire body to a man like this is one of the most intimate things you can do. Um although

Brian Atlasit's you know what's interesting a lot of people for some people like it's weird like holding hands for some people is more intimate than having sex >> which is kind of like >> what >> or kissing. >> Well I don't think so.

Brian Atlas>> That's crazy. Yeah. >> But like for some people sex is like this just >> is like >> they're completely detached intimacy from it. It's just like it's just sport

Brian Atlas[ __ ] for a lot of people to the point where okay like a man can be inside of me but oh if I hold a guy's hand that's more intimate than sex. >> And you're saying same with bowing that it's almost like you're saying sex is

Brian Atlasokay but bowing isn't. >> Well the point I was going to make is even off of bowing but it it could be related to bowing. A woman will like I mean look some people get freaky a

Brian Atlaslittle freaky with sex like you'll be cho I'm gonna be a little graphic here but I'm being graphic not for the sake of being graphic but to drive home the point a woman will choke on a guy's dick will have let him come inside let him

Brian Atlascome in your mouth you'll swallow his [ __ ] you'll let him blast on your face you'll let him blast on your back you'll do back shots you'll let him come inside your [ __ ] uh but women draw the line at

Brian AtlasI I don't cook. I don't clean. I won't bow. I won't do his laundry. And I'm like, hold on. >> You should be doing all of it. >> You'll Well, yes, you should do all of it. But it's like, >> the bow is uncomfortable, but I'll let a man

Brian Atlas>> like >> I'll let a man inside of me within 30 minutes of meeting. [laughter] >> You'll take his load, but you won't do his load. >> Yes. Wait, wait. Repeat that, Felicity. >> You'll take his load, but you won't do his load. >> Well put. You'll take his load, but you

Sabrina (Diabetic)won't do his load. I feel like with dating it makes you a rare woman if you just do everything. Like I'll bow then I'll fall to my knees and I'll cook and I'll clean. It's like because you love them that much. Like you just want to do everything for them and that you want to

Sativapay for them. >> Yeah. And honestly like the easier my man's life is, the easier mine is. So >> yeah, just make them happy. And it could be like the bowing thing is like fun and cute to me. And like you can make your own version of that. >> Imagine like wearing a cute little skirt

Brian Atlasor something like that. >> Oh my god, I love this. This is so cute. And and here's the truth with it, right? Like I in in practice,

Brian Atlaslike I I actually don't care if the girl like doesn't bow, but it's her willingness to do it. >> Yes. >> Like that's actually it's not the actual

Brian Atlasact itself. It's the willingness to do it. It's not like I'm some dictator. It's like you didn't [ __ ] bow to me today. No, I don't give a [ __ ] Like I don't actually care. But it's like it's a temperature test. It's a litmus test

Brian Atlasfor like okay is she going to acquies to me in other ways in the relationship. And so uh but but I mean getting off the bow because look again I get it's kind of

Brian Atlaslike a bit odd. It's a bit culturally doesn't make sense. Um but like you mentioned how you wouldn't do a guy's laundry on the first date >> or not the first date. The first time you're at his house, right?

Brian Atlas>> Um but you expect a guy to pay for the first date, right? And I was thinking about this and I think the easiest way I can like >> So, okay, you're dating college guys, right? >> Sure. >> College men, co people in college are

Brian Atlasnot typically known for being particularly high earners. Uh maybe they have parents money, whatever, whatever. Let's say the guy makes $20 an hour. Probably good chance, like a lot of guys in college make less than $20 an hour.

Brian AtlasHere in California, we have a minimum wage that's pretty decent. Maybe it's 16, 17, 18, 19, whatever. when you ask a guy, and look, I know I I'm you seem reasonable. I'm not I don't

Brian Atlasget the impression that you're expecting a guy to take you on, you know, some super $500 dinner, right? You're probably fine with maybe some pizza or chili or some [ __ ] right? But I don't

Brian Atlasknow, maybe I'm wrong. But I think like if you go to Chili's, right, you go to Chili's on a date, which I think most women are not going to be like super

Brian Atlasimpressed with a Chili's date. >> Chili. No, is good, but it's not exactly like okay the most >> if you're going to go do I think dinner dates are lame as [ __ ] but if you're

Brian Atlasgoing to do a dinner date, Chili's is not like exactly the most impressive. >> Do you watch Wicked? >> I do. Thank you. Um, >> but like if a woman's expectation or maybe when you get a bit older and he

Brian Atlastakes you to a, you know, medium tier place, like he's going to spend probably at minimum $100 on the date, right? And you would say, "Okay, well half of that's for him, so whatever. We're not going to count that. But $100 on a date

Brian Atlasis going to be like one or two drinks, an appetizer, main course, dessert, and tip, right? A guy's going to I don't think it's complete. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a guy's going to

Brian Atlaspay $100 on the first date. That's super reasonable, especially in this economy. If the guy makes $20 an hour and he's spending $100 on a date,

Brian Atlasfor the total the total date, that's five hours of work he has to do. Just for your portion, though, to be fair, that's two and a half hours of work if he's making $20 an hour. [gasps]

Brian AtlasSo, I'm thinking like, hold on. And I don't think it's rare for women to expect men to pay for first dates. In fact, some women maybe it's not a dealbreaker if you go 50/50. Some women

Brian Atlasdefinitely a dealbreaker. If it's the standard that women say, "You need to pay for the first date." That translates to, "You need to work

Brian Atlastwo and a half hours to take me out." And what if the guy works a labor job? What if he's his job is difficult? What if his job is, I don't know, what if

Brian Atlashe's a janitor? What if he's cleaning bathrooms? What if >> construction >> or Yeah. I mean, or he's works a restaurant job and he's [ __ ] running around cleaning tables and [ __ ] and he has to all the [ __ ] that he has

Brian Atlasto do in the restaurant or yeah construction. He's breaking his body. I start to think like, you know, the bow seems like kind of a small ass compared to the ask of women. Go work two hours

Brian Atlasto take me on a date. I mean, that's that's the entailment of men should pay on first dates. You work two hours to take me on a date.

Brian AtlasLike if I told you, "No, you don't have to bow, but go dig a ditch for two and a half hours, then we can go on a date." You would laugh at me and be like, "The [ __ ] I'm not going to do that." >> Mhm. >> Right.

Bella (pre-law)>> I mean, I don't really know. Like, yeah. Like, totally. Like, I mean, if he can't if he can't pay, then like he can't pay. Like, as long as like I'm having fun on the date and then if he communicates with me beforehand like, "Hey, like I'm

Bella (pre-law)sorry, like I can't pay." And stuff, I'd be like, "Okay, that's totally fine. we can do something else or we can do something that doesn't >> I mean if he can't pay you should probably plan something for free but um >> but it was your position earlier

Brian Atlas>> I understand there can be circumstances where you would go on a date with a guy and you guys maybe he doesn't have money and you would >> I mean you're in college that's I don't think it's peculiar that most college a

Brian Atlaslot of college guys don't have money >> um you'd go do something for free but you still did say you have some expectation that the guy would pay for dates. >> Yeah, for sure.

Brian Atlas>> Right. But that expectation built into it is okay, if he's going to spend 20, $40, $50 for your portion of the date, which I don't think is an unreasonable number for a guy to spend on a date,

Brian Atlasthat means working one, two, three, four hours to take you on the date. >> So, it's like, why are women allowed to have these expectations? But it's like weird and icky for guys to be like, you

Brian Atlasshould bow. >> You should do the laundry. the bow. Like, >> well, you But you wouldn't do the laundry the first time you go to a guy's house, which could be the second, third, fourth. >> Don't you think it's a little weird he would ask me to bow on the first date, though?

Bella (pre-law)>> Yeah. I'm granting that it's weird, but [laughter] when it comes to the laundry, you said you wouldn't do that. >> Yeah. I I think I think it's weird that like >> if like I went over to a guy's house and he'd be like, "Oh, can you do my laundry?" I'd be like, "No." Maybe if I

Brian Atlaswere in like a long-term relationship with him and I lived with him. Yeah, for sure. So, should men wait until they're in long-term relationships >> and only start paying for dates then?

Brian Atlas>> I don't know. >> I mean, no, I do know. I mean, >> should men withhold chivalry until the girlfriend or sorry, until the woman's his girlfriend? >> I don't think they would get into a relationship so they didn't have

Brian Atlaschivalry, though. >> Yes, that's you're spot. You're you're right. >> Yeah, >> you're spot on. Men have to frontload >> all men have to frontload all the traditional gender roles or whatever.

Brian AtlasThey have to frontload it. >> And some women are okay now that we're in a relationship now we can be more 50/50. Some women do that. Although some women still have the expectation that it continue on in perpetuity.

Brian AtlasBut it's interesting. So I guess the question again though comes to what do women do? >> What do you want them to do? Like in >> Well, I'm asking you though. I'm asking you. I know what I want women to do.

Brian Atlas>> Like, what do I do? Or >> what what do what do you do? What do any women >> do really? >> You probably like paint his fingernails or something. >> What the [ __ ] [laughter] >> He probably like paints his fingernails

Felicity Hughessomething like that. >> I mean, if you're being pursued, that's a liberal joke. >> That's what I'm supposed to [laughter] do. >> Like, if you're the one being pursued, what are you supposed to do? >> I'm glad you like that.

Felicity Hughes>> Yeah. [laughter] I mean, cuz usually women are not the ones pursuing. So, I mean, I don't know what we're supposed to do in like the beginning talking stage. I know what to do in like a relationship, but if you're being pursued, I don't I don't know what to

Brian Atlasdo. >> You could also pay 50/50. >> Well, that is the I would say that that is in fact the dynamic is that there isn't really an expectation on what

Brian Atlaswomen should do. I think they that there would be like a degree of submiss of m not being a pain in the ass, making yourself available,

Brian Atlasbut acquiescing and deferring to him. But I would argue like I mean [ __ ] if uh the first time a girl comes over to my house, >> yeah, she should do the laundry. >> Well, you know my take on that.

Felicity Hughes>> Well, you would do it, but whatever. >> Yeah. I mean, I I like to be I like to make his life convenient. If he's working to pay for the date, he's probably not going to have time to do his own laundry. So, >> I get that. >> I'll help him out if he really needs

Brian Atlashelp. >> Yeah. Yeah. Plus, it's kind of fun. Put some music on. >> I enjoy doing laundry. [laughter] >> The bow thing is just to see if she'll do one really easy, effortless, uh, completely benign thing just to make her

Brian Atlasman happy. >> That's it. >> I'll do it. >> Regardless of how silly how silly it is. Um, how about here? Here's a question. Um,

Jacqueline Thomas>> I I have Can I ask a question, Brian? >> Yeah, go ahead. >> It's in It's in line with what you're asking, but I have I have a feeling that it's the bowing. It's some type of showing some type of submission that you

Jacqueline Thomasjust don't feel like he's owed yet, right? It's you're not subordinate to him. You're his equal. You don't want him to think that you're less than him. Is that where we're going? Is that >> just not comfortable with doing it? Like, if I don't want to do it, I don't

Jacqueline ThomasI don't want to do it. >> What if I'm So, what if and I don't know you very well. What if he had a he he got some driving tickets, like speeding tickets, and he had to take some tests. What are they called? Defensive driving

Jacqueline Thomastests online, >> and he's like, "Well, can you take the tests for me while we're on a date at home? Like, I have to finish these tests, otherwise I can't do X, Y, and Z." Would you take those defensive driving courses online for him? >> No.

Jacqueline Thomas>> You wouldn't? >> I don't I don't think No, I wouldn't. I mean, he got the ticket. He He should do it. I mean, like I I have my own life. if I have to do other things. >> But you're like with him and y'all are dating and he's like, "Oh, I can't go I

Jacqueline Thomascan't go on the date because I got to take these tests and >> um yeah, we're hanging out anyways. Will you take these tests for me?" >> No, I wouldn't. >> You would tell him no, I won't. >> No. Is it like Are you saying like he's busy working and that's why he doesn't

Jacqueline Thomashave time? >> Like he can't go on the date because >> Yeah. He can't he he wants to take you out and you're like, "Hey, I'm here to go out on our date." and he's like, "Well, I can't go out on the date because I've got to take these defensive driving courses and otherwise I can't do whatever."

Jacqueline Thomas>> And you're like, "Well, I'll" and you're over. He's like, "Well, can you help me with them? I've got to do this and do this and then maybe we can go on a date or but I have to get this done. Can you help me with it? I haven't studied." >> I I mean, I wouldn't know what he like I

Jacqueline Thomaswould I have to study. >> But he knows But you're smarter than him. You are unequivocally smarter than him. He knows that he picked the right girlfriend. Could you help him and take this for him and show him that you're gonna help him take these? >> I think I would help him, but I wouldn't like take it.

Bella (pre-law)>> So, you would help him? >> Yes, I would help him, but like it's like I would help him with other stuff, too. But I just like the bowing thing. Like I just can't. >> But you But you would help him take those online courses?

Bella (pre-law)>> I would help him, but I wouldn't do it for him. I feel like it's like like if he told me like, "Oh, sit down. Take it for instead of me like him and I sitting side by side and I'm like okay like this is like why this >> so y'all will sit side by side on your

Jacqueline Thomasdate you say hey in lie of the date we're going to take this test since he can't take me out on this test on this date >> you always reschedule a date you know I mean >> but you would stay with him and take the test with him

Brian Atlas>> okay >> so you do have some traditional gender expectations of men >> do you think and you and I'm assuming you're totally fine with Yeah.

Brian Atlas>> Like you want that even is it okay for men to have traditional gender expectations of women? >> Depends what they are >> being submissive. >> I feel like I >> like what what would be a one uh

Bella (pre-law)>> it's the same thing with men like it depends like what they are like you know >> what do you mean >> like you're saying like if I like if men should have traditional expectations of women it's the same thing like with men like it depends it depends what they are for them. Well, I don't I don't even

Brian Atlasknow the traditional gender expectations that women have uh that that they have of men that they've abandoned in at any point. So, like the the traditional

Brian Atlasorder of things, women haven't relinquished any of their demands for men, but it seems like women definitely want men to relinquish

Brian Atlastraditional demands of women. But so, what are the are there any like Okay, I guess If there's a traditional expectation on

Brian Atlasmen, [clears throat] what can men expect from women? Are we allowed to have expectations of women? >> Yeah, of course.

Brian Atlas>> Okay. What are those things? >> Care for them. Like >> that goes both ways. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> But so when we're talking about gender roles, then we're we're talking about >> thing man does and then thing woman

Brian Atlasdoes. M >> so caring for each other goes both ways >> but I can list things that are completely exclusive to men that women seem to one directionally care about. So

Brian Atlasit's like okay paying for the date. >> Well in order for somebody only one person can pay for the date. Well you can go 50/50 but typically men don't have an expectation that the woman pays for the entire date the same way that

Brian Atlaswomen expect men to pay for the entire date. Okay. All those other acts of chivalry that we talked about, opening the car door, being a provider, being a protector, continuing continuing to pay

Brian Atlasfor dates, observing the sidewalk rule. These are like one these are onedirectional unilateral expectations that women place on men that I think

Brian Atlaswould fall under like a traditional gender role expectation. So what women have said, I think, is I want to be a modern woman.

Brian AtlasI want I think it goes like this. I want the benefits of modernity. I want the benefits of traditional treatment. I

Brian Atlaswant to reject though the uh I women want to also coincidingly reject perhaps ways in which traditional gender roles

Brian Atlasdon't uh are not beneficial to them. So

Brian AtlasI think though that that's a raw deal for men. Why is it that even modern women are still holding men to traditional gender role expectations

Brian Atlasbut women get to completely uh completely >> abandon >> abandon any sort of traditional expectation on their end? >> I feel like not all women do. I mean obviously >> you have though.

Sativa>> I have. Yeah. >> But but do you think that's fair? >> I mean fair in like in what sense? Like >> it's cuz you expect a man to be very traditional, but you're not like willing

Sativalike you seem very unwilling to even entertain the idea of being a traditional woman. So you're you're wanting full freedom but wanting expectation from the man at the same

Bella (pre-law)time. Like it it it's going to clash no matter what. >> Cognitive dissonance. >> Yeah. >> Well, I feel like it's what we talked about and stuff. Like I'd obviously like sit with a man and like help him with stuff. So it's like

Jacqueline Thomas>> I'm not expecting him to be like like all like all the all the time like paying for my food like all that stuff. It's like obviously would split stuff and like make sense.

Jacqueline Thomas>> And it does in regard to what to try and bring it full circle circle. I think it's what do women have to offer? And even in a dating format we have our

Jacqueline Thomassubmissiveness to offer that. That's a power that we do have to give because we don't expect them to pay or we expect them to pay. We expect them to protect us. We expect all these things that are like it's like it's intuitive for you.

Jacqueline ThomasYou're like, well, of course a woman wants her the guy to do that. Wouldn't you go you wouldn't go out on a date with a guy? Well, why like have you ask yourself why do I assume all these properties for this guy and give him literally nothing? >> Well, what do you like for like what do

Jacqueline Thomasyou what are qualities of like submissive to like to you just so I can understand >> that? So that example I gave you was a lit it was it was so specific because it actually happened. Okay. And I in in the mean like while it was happening I didn't think about it but

Jacqueline Thomas>> the way we behaved with each other he was deciding this is the type of person I want to be my wife who I want to raise my children. She's competent. She's really smart but she's also willing to

Jacqueline Thomaslike help me and wash my dishes and do my laundry. And she's even doing all these other things. She's not saying she's too big or too bold or too great to do these things for me. And over

Jacqueline Thomastime, that added up in his mind. He was willing to just pay for everything. Even though he had no money at all at all for a very long time, he was willing to do all those things because I was I didn't know what I was doing, but I was giving

Bella (pre-law)a little bit and he was giving a little bit. But I was just giving what I could as a woman and he was giving what he could as a man, >> right? And like I feel like I would definitely like do those kinds of actions if like I was in like a really

Bella (pre-law)long-term relationship. But like what you said, if like I was going over to his house for the first time, I I wouldn't want to do his laundry. >> But why not? >> I just if I don't know the guy like if I'm like >> But why are you going to his house if you don't know him?

Bella (pre-law)>> Don't people go on >> I don't go to any guy's house that I don't know. I wouldn't >> if you >> I feel like that's like the like modern thing. Like a lot of people go over like for different. She's a bit different, you know? But like

Sativa>> we're hoping that by the time you're going to his house, there's like some sort of rapport established >> like some sort of like relationship or some sort of not not full-blown

Sativarelationship, but just it's not Yeah. Like I'm not just meeting you today and at your house. Like it's further than that. >> You get what I'm saying? >> Mhm. I feel like it well for me I feel like it'd have to start with we're both

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