RAGE QUIT! CONFRONTING Alien Girl?! Muslim Girl Is HARAM?! Jimbob Debate LEGEND! | Dating Talk #237

Date: 2025-04-07

Duration: 6h 11m

Guests

Brian Atlas

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_01Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_02Sam (Ginger)(guest)

SPEAKER_03Felicity(guest)

SPEAKER_04Tiffany(guest)

SPEAKER_05Val(guest)

SPEAKER_06Alien(guest)

SPEAKER_10Sarah Tasha(guest)

SPEAKER_12Jim Bob(guest)

SPEAKER_14Nazan Noble(guest)

Key Moments

IntroAll guests introduced

ControversyExtended debate: Sarah Tasha's sensual Instagram vs her Muslim identity

OtherRAGE QUIT: Sarah Tasha refuses yes/no on 'eliminate all men,' leaves studio

QuoteAlien would press button to eliminate all humanity, laughing

Topics Discussed

Guest Introductions

Sam, Alien, Sarah Tasha, Nazan Noble, Tiffany, Val, Felicity, Jim Bob.

Alien Loves Trees

Has romantic attachment to a specific tree. Prefers trees to humans.

Sarah Tasha Muslim vs Instagram

Extended debate: sensual Instagram photos vs Islamic law. Sarah: 100% incorrect Islamically but personally empowering.

Sarah Tasha Rage Quit

Refused to give yes/no to 'eliminate all men to stop SA.' Brian draws diagram. She leaves.

Body Count Round

Sam: 11. Alien: 15. Nazan: 12. Tiffany: 0 (virgin). Val: 4. Felicity: 2.

Transcript

Page 1 of 7

Brian AtlasWelcome to the Whatever Dating Talk podcast where we try to make sense of the modern dating hellscape. I'm your host, Brian Atlas. We're coming to you live from Santa Barbara, California. A few quick announcements. This podcast is

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Brian Atlasthe guests introduce themselves. So, please tell us your name, age, uh, occupation, where are you from, and education.

Sam (Ginger)Uh, hi, my name is Sam. I'm from Florida and I'm 19. And I do content creation. All right. Uh, what kind of content? Um,

Sam (Ginger)adult entertainment. Okay. Any sort of uh you know like like what kind?

Sam (Ginger)Um explicit content. I you know do you do BG BG content? Not necessarily. I don't want to go I don't really post that necessarily. It's a, you know, it's

Sam (Ginger)just a form of entertainment through content I post. Kind of like an inside of my life. Just a little bit more in-depth than what I would post on like Instagram or Snapchat. Okay. Uh, and any

Sam (Ginger)college or anything like that? Um, no. I did graduate, but I just haven't gone for any of that stuff yet, but I do want to go into marketing and stuff. Just

Alienhaven't. Sure. Okay. What about you? Hi, I'm Alien. I'm 26. Um, I work at a factory or warehouse or whatever. Plus,

Brian AtlasI'm kind of do my own thing. And then I'm also from Arizona. Okay. Uh, any education, college, anything like that? Yes. Okay. Uh, did you get your

Alienbachelor's? Well, you know, I kind of dropped out unwillingly, but I went to college. Yeah.

AlienOkay. Um, and you do OAF, is that correct? Uh, sometimes, yeah, like it's up there, but I don't really participate in it. Okay, got

Sarah Tashait. That chair, I apologize. This chair is incredibly squeaky. Um, okay. What about you? Uh, my name is Sarah Tasha. I'm 29 years old and I'm a poet. I also

Brian Atlashave a master's in public administration from USC. Sorry, could you repeat your age again? I Sorry. 29. 29. Got it. And a masters in from USC in what again? Public administration. Public

Nazan Nobleadministration. Okay. And uh where are you from? Reynoldsburg, Ohio is where I was born. From Ohio. Got it. Okay. What about you? Yeah. My name is uh Nazan

Nazan NobleNoble. I'm 47, a business owner, bachelor's degree in English, entrepreneur, tech

Tiffanyenthusiast, life coach from LA. Okay. Uh, right. What about you? Hi, I'm Tiffany. I'm 19. I go to UCSB. I'm majoring in polyai and

Valecon. And I'm from here. All right. Welcome. Hey, my name is Val. I'm 30 years old. And, um, I consider myself an underground comedian. Uh, I'd like to

Valshout out my fans. I have a new name for you guys. You guys are meanie babies. Um, other than that, I barely went to school. I just went as little as legally

Valpossible. So, that's where I'm at. I went I have some college. Uh, that's about it. Okay. All right. What about you? My name

Felicityis Felicity. I'm 18 from Santa Barbara and I'm a dental assistant and I go to college for business. All right. Uh, my name is Jim Bob. I go by

Jim BobMade by Jim Bob. I'm a political cartoonist and uh I do social commentary at Made byJim Bob on YouTube and you can find me on Made byJim Bob on Instagram. I also brought Shameless Grift uh Brian

SPEAKER_13three of my my books. You can see them. Yeah, they're for you. I'll put them on my bookshelf. Yeah, you will giggle at those. The first two volumes are sold out. There's three for me. Post-truth booster cultura ad absurdum. You're

Brian Atlasgoing to love them. Thank you. Appreciate the gift. That's very kind. Uh all right, cool. And wait, so um uh where you did you say where you're from? I'm from Colorado. I was so I was so focused on your books. Okay, you're from

Brian AtlasColorado. Got it. Perfect. And did you get uh like a gra a degree from somewhere or did I mean I got an associates degree. Okay, got it. All right, cool. Uh so we're going to go

Brian Atlasaround the table once more. What is everybody's current relationship status? If you're single, how long have you been single? And what's the longest relationship you've ever been in? Go

Sam (Ginger)ahead. Um, I am in a relationship and I've been with him since last October. All right. So, eight months. What? Eight months? Yeah.

Brian AtlasOr what? Yeah. Okay. Uh, longest relationship? Uh, two and a half years? 2.5 years. Okay. Uh, from what age to what age was

Brian Atlasthat relationship? That was 16 till 18. Okay. How soon after that uh breakup did you meet your current uh boyfriend? Um I

Sam (Ginger)met him last June. So it took a couple months. Okay. Who broke up with who in the 2.5 year relationship? Um I broke up with him. It was a domestic relationship. It was pretty bad actually. So Oh, so you

Sam (Ginger)were abusing him or Oh, no. Oh, you think No, he was abusing me. But Oh, you said domestic violence? Yeah. Hit him on me. Oh, yeah. Uh, I mean, I got my I got a couple hits in for sure, but but he

Brian Atlasgot, you know, he got a little more than me, so yeah, I left him. Okay. So, he was the grasser. Yeah. Okay. All right. Uh, and then, um, how long have you been doing the Only Fans? Since last

Brian AtlasDecember. You know, it's recent. It's new. So, you you met your current boyfriend and then you were not doing sex work, but now you're doing sex work.

Sam (Ginger)Yeah. So I started it with him last December, mid December. Was he like pushing you to start it or No, it was it was my idea. I was actually working for him. He was my boss. Um I was working in

Sam (Ginger)automotive and sales. Um I really like cars, but then I just kind of got bored and I made it and that was kind of it

Sam (Ginger)and it kind of worked. So I started using what was at my hands, you know. Okay. All right.

AlienWhat about you? I'm single. How long have you been single? Uh, basically all my life I had situationships, but never really had a real relationship.

Brian AtlasOkay. And what about the trees? Weren't you in love with a tree? Yeah, I'm still in love with him. I still go see him. Yeah. How do you know? Well, I guess trees do

Alienhave a sex, right? They Do you check How do you check the sex of a tree? I believe that majority of trees that are just planted around are uh male.

Brian AtlasThey're mostly male. Yeah, they're mostly male. That's why pollen is so the pollen from the trees are so like Okay. How many how many relationships with trees um have you had? Um well, it just

Aliendepends on what type of relationship we're talking about. Like I have sexual relationships. I don't have sexual relationships, but I have like one that I like I call my babe and then the other

Alienones I like go and see as like an ancestor type of thing or like I look at as as a friend or whatever. Like a giving tree situation. Sure.

Sarah TashaThat's what's up. If you found out the tree was a woman, would you consider yourself by? I wouldn't care. Has a tree ever cheated on you? I mean, probably. quick. More

Alienthan likely, it's the roots. Oh, it's the roots. Yeah, they communicate through their roots. So, whatever is probably already always there is probably communicating to like the other

Alientrees around like this crazy [ __ ] keeps coming over and calling me babe. You know what I mean? But I love it. So, it's whatever.

Brian AtlasIt's whatever. Wait, so, okay. To be clear though, you have been single your entire life. Yeah. You've never What's the longest period of time you've dated a guy? 6 8 months. Six to eight months.

Brian AtlasBut you didn't call him boyfriend, girlfriend. I don't really look to date like that. I see. Okay. Um, have you ever told a guy or a girl you love them?

Brian AtlasNo. Okay. So, you've never been in love? Have you been in love with a tree? I I love all trees. Yeah. No. Love like

AlienI get But love in love. In love. in love. Well, maybe it depends. It depends on like the type of tree that cuz listen, I'm weird, so don't like don't let me get into it cuz then I'll start

Aliendevil into like different things and you're going to be like, "What the [ __ ] are you talking about?" Okay, sure. Uh what about you? Um that totally relation. Yeah. Like what was the question? Uh yeah. Yeah, I'll fine. I

Sarah Tashacan see how that could throw you off. Uh I'll repeat it. Uh so uh relationship status. Okay. Um I'm currently dating. um exclusively and I am technically

Brian Atlaslegally married right now. Technically legally Wait. So, okay. But you're not currently dating the guy who you're technically legally No, I'm not married

Brian Atlasto I've been trying to divorce him for two years now. I see. Okay. Uh wait, so how long have you been seeing this

Sarah Tashacurrent guy? Um about 3 4 months now. Okay. And oh yeah, longest relationship um was the marriage. The marriage. Okay. How

Sarah Tashalong have you guys been separated? Um two years. Two three years. Two to three. Okay. And you're uh you're Muslim. Is

Brian Atlasthat correct? I am. Okay. Asalam alaikum. Okay. Uh how long have you been has it been your whole life that you're No, I reverted about six years ago.

Sarah TashaOkay. Was your husband? Is he Muslim? He says he is. What do you mean he says he is? What does that mean? Because to be Muslim, you have to, you know, have some

Brian Atlascharacter developments there. And they weren't there during our relationship. I see. Okay. Um All right. Cool. Is your current

Brian Atlasboyfriend or whatever guy you're dating, is he Muslim? He's not. He's not. Okay. Um, is that a problem for you? I guess it it is. Technically in Islam, you're

Sarah Tashanot allowed to marry a man that isn't Muslim. What about a tree? I I I don't think that's um been recorded in the hadith, like a situation like

Brian Atlasthat. Um Okay. Yeah. Sure. All right. Um well, we'll get we'll get into some of that stuff in a bit, but uh what about you?

Nazan NobleWell, um longest relationship was my marriage. Um I've been married twice. One for 13 years and the other one um

Nazan Noblefrom the start to divorce like eight years. Uh technically I the these two were the longest relationships that I've

Nazan Nobleum ever had. I haven't been in and I'm single right now. You're single now? Yeah. And I haven't been uh um out of marriage. I haven't been actually in a

Brian Atlasrelationship to be honest with you. Okay. Um how long have you been uh single? Uh since 2018. So let's say what seven years. Yeah.

Nazan Noblewillingly single. What do you mean willingly single? Um it's uh for me is um it's

Nazan Noblejust not easy to accept people in my life. It's not that easy. It has to it

Nazan Nobleit has to um take its time and I there's no rush for it and I'm I've been busy with business and basically You have

Brian Atlaskids, right? Yeah, I have a daughter. She's 25. Just one kid. Yeah. Okay. Um and is that from your first marriage or your second marriage? First marriage. First marriage. Okay. And then um I'm

Brian Atlastrying to think here. Nope. That's not going to get me. Um, so one kid, have you been, Wait, have you not dated anybody? You said you've been single for seven years. Have you

Nazan Noblenot dated anybody for seven years? Yeah. So you've been, have you been celibate for seven years? Um, you could say that. Yeah. What do you mean I could say that?

Nazan NobleUm, there are things you do to take care of yourself. You need, you do that, but with a in with somebody? No.

Nazan NobleOkay. And I And it's because I'm just a I have my own um weird ways of doing

Nazan Noblethings, which is um I rather be on my own than being with someone around someone that I have to tolerate them. So I don't I don't think you have

Nazan Nobleto tolerate anybody. You have to I I believe you have to be willingly want to be around someone and whenever you want. and um and it's just

Nazan Noblenot something you can find in everybody. So you you have to take your time. You have to just uh get to the point that you want to be um available or somebody

Nazan Nobleor find someone that would want to willingly be around you. I don't like these um social contracts of um the way

Nazan Noblepeople do it is just doesn't work for me. So no rush. See what happens.

Brian AtlasOkay. Um, and so two marriages. Uh, who initiated the divorce in the first marriage? Me. Who initiated the divorce

Nazan Noblein the second marriage? It was mutual, both of us. And we are best friends now. Me and my ex. Yeah. Okay.

Brian Atlas[Music] Um. All right. And so, one mutual. Why did you initiate the first one? Uh, we were just two different people,

Nazan Noblecompletely different people. I'm optimistic, positive. I love life. I try to see beauty in things. And um, we

Nazan Noblewere just different. He was uh, negative. And um, the energy was just got to the point that I didn't want to be around that

Tiffanyenergy. I I couldn't be around that energy anymore. I see. Okay. Yeah. All right. What about you? I'm taken. I'm in a relationship. It's my first ever one.

TiffanyAnd same guy. Yeah. Okay. How long have you guys been together? We've been together for one year and five months now. Gotcha. And he's

Brian Atlasthe There's been a bit of confusion as to like is he the Christian nationalist guy or Yeah. Did I think originally maybe you misspoke? You said he was a

Tiffanywhite a uh well those things go hand in hand but like Okay, got it. Usually but Christian nationalist.

Brian AtlasGot it. Okay. Um can someone explain what that is? What is a Christian nationalist? You want to explain explain what did

Tiffanyum so a white Christian nationalist would want to maintain America majority white basically.

Sarah TashaWow. You don't consider yourself well what what's your nationality? What's your ethnicity? I'm my ethnicity is Korean

Sarah Tashabut I'm I have a US passport. Do you not consider yourself a minority? Well, I am a minority. So, how do you feel about dating someone

Tiffanywho's a white nationalist who wants to maintain America to be majority white? Um uh I mean I'm I'm not into politics like

Valthat too much, but I don't really care about what he supports. That like is that the insinuation that he'd prefer it to be majority white.

Sam (Ginger)You don't think that that's disrespectful towards you at all? No. I mean, he's not saying it has to be 100% white. But what's the motive there? Is there like why is that? You know, what's

Sam (Ginger)the difference between diversity and preserved culture? What culture

Tiffanyat all? But like just curious of your mindset. Are you willing to get plastic surgery to make your face more white? I'm open to plastic surgery. I actually

Tiffanywould love to get a nose job done, but it's not to make myself more white. It's just cuz that's a phenomenon in Korea, isn't it?

TiffanyI mean, yes, I guess if you were to kind of deeply analyze the culture, but I just want to do it to make myself look

Sarah Tashabetter. You're beautiful the way you are. Mah, can you ask a question? Sure. Um, any

Valquestion? Um, continue with the relationship status. Okay. Uh, yeah. Sorry. Go ahead. So, um, and speak into the mic loud. You're a comedian, right?

ValI'm nervous. Yeah. Just let it out. This is my debut. Loud. Yeah. So, uh, my longest relationship was 10 years. That was my last relationship. Uh, I've been single for 6

Felicitymonths. Okay. I'm currently on a break right now, but my longest relationship is this one, almost two years. Nice. Um, I have been

Jim Bobwith my wife for nine years now and we have three kids. So, but that tree thing, how do you has has me second guessing.

Sarah TashaHow do you feel about being married for 9 years in this day and age? Uh, I feel like a boomer. Um, I I'm honestly I look out on

Jim Bobthe street here and I'm like I don't know how you guys do it today. like I was lucky to get out of that honestly and I'm actually not sure why uh so little amount of people are aren't

Jim Bobpursuing you know a marriage something stable you know roots in the ground why why are people running around dating uh if isn't the ultimate goal of dating if

Sarah Tashait works out is to settle down like what else would the goal be I just had a conversation with someone literally this morning at like 4:00 in the morning about how Having a child is a bigger

Sarah Tashacommitment than getting married, but everyone is having children and not getting married. Doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, does anyone want to answer that? If they

Jim Bobthink that like dating's just for fun, if you find the perfect person, isn't doesn't it just follow that you build something with that person? Like, yeah,

Sam (Ginger)of course. Does it just stay like neutral or I feel like sometimes though like especially people younger you know if they don't wait a while they have a different you know perspective on it. They don't they like they'll choose

Sam (Ginger)something they like over something they love and within five minutes and I think that's why a lot of relationships on either side tend to fail at this day and age because of literally that they find something they like more than whatever

Jim Bobthey love. So shortterm choices, right? Yeah. Impulsive decisions. Yeah. I mean, short-term choices I I think can ruin someone's not not their life. It could

Sam (Ginger)ruin their life, but it ruins their prospect for the future. Cuz I mean, I in my perspective, I feel like dating somebody is just like every day you wake up and you're like, I'm going to date

Sam (Ginger)this person. And then turns out it's eight years later, 9 years later. And it just that is commitment in itself. And it's in a sense pretty easy. I just feel like a lot of people don't view it that

Jim Bobway, you know. But I'm considering the topic, uh, don't you think that it's possible that you you personally, the choice you're making, uh, to do what you're doing now, do would you say

Sam (Ginger)that's a short-term choice as opposed to a longterm choice like being by my boyfriend or pornography, Only Fans, adult content? I do view it as short term. Obviously, I don't think longevity it would, you know, work, but I do think

Sam (Ginger)I have a certain plan with it where I can make it work towards longevity. I'm not just jumping into it because it's a money grab. I am actually, you know, kind of looking as a business opportunity. So, I think if done well,

Sam (Ginger)you know, with me and whoever else who does it, I think it can be done right and not, you know, cringey or however people, you know, view it. It can be

Jim Bobdone a certain way. Do you think it minimizes uh the potential um pool of men in this case who would settle down with you and make a family? Um no, it

Sam (Ginger)doesn't. I say that with a little bit of a grain of salt cuz I mean I already have a boyfriend, you know, and we're already pretty serious and I'm pretty sure all that stuff's already locked in. Um but there is a part, you know, where

Sam (Ginger)it's if I started, you know, oh, I don't know if I can say what started. I don't know if I can say it. Whenever I started it, if I was single, maybe there might be a problem, you know. So, it kind of depends on your situation. You know, if

Sam (Ginger)you want to start it, but you're single, then have that in the back of your mind. You might not find someone cuz yeah, some guys might not be fine with it. You know, I had a boyfriend before and we talked about it. It wasn't a in the

Sam (Ginger)plan. So, I didn't do it, but sometimes just happens, you know. My boyfriend's much older than me, too. So, he has a different view on things. How much older is he? Sorry. That's okay. Uh my

Nazan Nobleboyfriend's in his 30s. So like third like late like how 30s. He's mid-30s. So like 35. Okay. And um so you were in a

Sam (Ginger)relationship when you started? Yeah. So he was my boss. So I was working in sales for him in automotive. Um, and then just randomly one day I kind of got

Sam (Ginger)bored and I made the account and whenever I started posting on it, my other social medias kind of jumped on it and it worked and it's kind of been nothing but improving. So, I just keep

Sam (Ginger)going with it. You improving, you mean making more money. Statistics all over, you know, it's not necessarily about the money either. I like the impression I give. I try not to come off on social media, so I'm just that content creator,

Sam (Ginger)you know. I like having other stuff like my cars, you know, I like to do stuff on my cars and all that stuff. So, I try not to be viewed that way because I feel like there can be a fine line with it

Sam (Ginger)and I'm trying to get right in the middle of it. So,

Valand how long have you been doing comedy? I haven't really. I've been doing it since like August. I actually didn't even know. Live streams are always white noise to me. Mhm. cuz I'm like, why wouldn't I just 2x it later? And then I

Jim Bobrealized I could go in the chat. Have you done a really sad have you gone up in front of physical people? Oh, no. Not happening. Yeah. Well, that's going to be required

Brian Atlasif if you want to call yourself like a standup comic at least. I don't want to be standup come. Oh, okay. All right. Sorry guys, I had to step away momentarily. Um, so, okay,

Brian AtlasFelicity, you're on a break and then you're also single, correct? How long? Single. Uh, six months. Six months. Okay, cool. All

Brian Atlasright. Um, I did want to start off with uh let's see, you said you're you've been you're in an age gap relationship. Is that correct? Yeah.

Brian AtlasWhat's the age gap? uh 17 years, I think. Okay. So, you're 19 and he's uh 36. Yeah. Or wait, did I get that

Brian Atlasright? Y my math is mathing. All right. And um is he a white guy? No, he's a black

Brian Atlasguy. We have a picture. Not of him. Uh go ahead. Pull it up. What the

Brian Atlas[ __ ] honest. And that was that was on your Twitter. Yeah, I gotta be honest. Um I

Brian Atlasthink any like if you ever get out of the OFA, well just the just all the O stuff, but like that picture I think it's going to be a problem for a lot of guys. What's

Brian Atlasgoing to be a problem? Just that picture. It's going to be a problem. I don't understand the that picture. Honestly, all the pictures, the OF stuff, I think it's going to be it's going to make dating a little harder. I'm not really worried about it. I don't know why I pulled that [ __ ] up, but

Sam (Ginger)what? Like, it's okay cuz I'm not really worried about it. And like, even if me and him break up, which we more than likely won't, but if we do, that's okay. I will literally live by myself cuz I

Sarah Tashaalready have a cat, so I'm technically fine. Okay. I honestly I think it does more good than does it harm. So, sweet. When you're doing OAF stuff with your

Sam (Ginger)partners, do you ever think about your kids, like future children? Honestly, I don't really want kids. I mean, I thought about it, but not really. I grew

Sam (Ginger)up where all my sisters kind of had kids really early on, so it wasn't really something I wanted to do. Um, and I did think about it. If I did, I would make sure OAF is long gone. You know, I

Sam (Ginger)wouldn't have social media. I'd make sure my kids wouldn't have it till they were old enough to process if they found out. And if I did do that, then oh well. You know, if they found out, they'd realize while they were in a condo in Miami. You know what I mean? So, it's

Brian Atlasokay. Good times. Cool. Um, here I need to go over a couple things really quick. Uh, Anthony, he bought something from our shop,

Brian Atlasshop.Whatever.com. Uh, sent in a donation. Also, still hoping to find a decent girlfriend. Any suggest? Oh, wait. Did it not show up? Hold on. Wait. Oh, it did pop up. Okay, I'm tripping. Yo, Anthony, thank you for the I think he bought a sweater. Unfortunately,

Brian AtlasStreamlabs, it doesn't show the actual item, but he bought a sweater, sweatshirt, hoodie from the whatever shop. So, thank you, man. Really appreciate it, Anthony. Um, okay.

Brian AtlasSo, good times. Um, I wanted to come back to you. Um, oh, do you go to like, so I'm not really super familiar with the with Islam, the faith. Do you go to

Brian Atlasmosa like a mosque every the masid? Yes. Wait, can you uh open all the way? All the way. Just open.

Brian AtlasUm, so you you go on is it Sundays or Fridays? Juma. Fridays. Okay. Yeah. Oh, and we were we had you scheduled

Sarah Tashalike was it two weeks ago, three weeks ago? But like is it still Ramadan? No, Ramadan ended um March 29th. March 29th. Okay. So, you were you were

Sarah Tashalike fasting? I was fasting. Yes. What is the isn't the fasting though? It's like just through the day or through sunlight or some [ __ ] Yeah. So, sunrise, which is fudger, it's around,

Sarah Tashait was like around um 5:40ish in the morning, and then you get to eat again at Mghreb, which is around 700 p.m. So,

Sarah Tashaand it diff it differentiates based on the time zone and like where you're at in the world in the sun. So, does in Islam are you allowed to have premarital

Sarah Tashasex? Absolutely not. That was my question. Are you currently having if you want me

Sarah Tashato reveal my sins online? I I totally am engaging in premarital sex.

Brian AtlasYeah. So, how do you reconcile the whole Islam thing with the [ __ ] You ask for forgiveness. I pray. But I mean here, maybe you should weigh in. Isn't there

Jim Boblike a component? I mean, even in the Christian faith, uh, you're supposed to be striving towards and not making continuous Yeah. I mean, I don't know the Islam,

Jim Bobuh, distinction for repentance or anything or confession, but um, you know, um, but also, isn't under the Islam view is is don't you hold the view that Allah dictates all?

Jim BobWhat do you mean by that? That Allah dictates everything. So it's like that like uh that even your sins would be ultimately dictated by by God judged.

Sarah TashaAbsolutely. No, actually dictated like like Oh, like causal chain like determined free will versus Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Um yes. We believe that your life was already written before. So Allah had

Sarah Tashayou doing premarital sex already anyway. So he needs to you need you need to forgive him. Stop it. Um, no. I mean, no. I He He has also written for me to

Jim Bobask for forgiveness. So, while I'm sinning, I'm also It's written for me to be asking for So, you didn't you don't forgive using your own free will. Then,

Jim Bobit's actually just like a sort of like a tentacle of God. It's like he's wiggling, you know, like

Jim Bobhe, in other words, any movement or thought you have or action you have was already destined to happen and dictated and written by Allah. Correct. Including

Valthe the worst of sins, the worst of the worst. Mhm. Do you think it might impede um I know your boyfriend's kind of lukewarm about it. Do you think that

Sarah Tashamight help or hurt What do you mean? like uh the premarital sex like do you are you asking me if he would be bothered by that being a role

Valor like what do you mean? Well, you said he was like kind of lukewarm or he No, that was your last boyfriend, right? My

Sarah Tashahusband. Your husband? Yes. Yes. He um Yes, my husband. Um he was not

Sarah Tashapracticing 100%. And I think that everyone struggles in their religions and just in general, generally speaking, I think it's kind of odd that Islam is

Sarah Tashaviewed as like maybe it's cuz the women cover up, but like they're viewed at a higher standard. Like even in Christianity, you're supposed to cover up and you don't see women walking around in like nun outfits. You know

Valwhat I mean? I totally agree. So it's kind of odd that that's how things are. It's like you have to strive for perfection, you know? Get the rocks. Yeah. Yeah. Get the rocks. Get the

Brian Atlasrocks. So, wait. So, um I was I saw your Instagram. Uh can we um pull up the

Brian AtlasInstagram? All right, there it is. Um scroll down a little bit. What? Pause. Pause. Scroll back. Whoa. Up. Scroll up. Okay. Wait. So, don't scroll back down

Brian Atlasyet, but that one in the bottom left. Well, the um Okay, [ __ ] it. Scroll

Sarah Tashadown. Bro, that's looking right down Main Street. Right down Main Street. If that's where your eyes are going to go, then that's where your eyes are going to

Brian Atlasgo. It's not my fault. How do you How do you

Jim Bobreconcile Islam? That's crazy. And just spread. She already said Allah pre-wrote her

Sarah TashaInstagram account to do that. Yeah, technically showing it. Also, I'd say that how does like accountability exist within the religion then? What do you mean? How does accountability I think

Nazan Noblethe accountability is you what's the what's the point of uh repentance or what's where's the commitment to the religion if if it's just a word? So,

Nazan Nobleit's just a word. So you can just say I was born as Muslim but then I want to do whatever I want to do. But but why why sticking to that when you want to do

Sarah Tashathis? What's what's where is the where is the line? I think that people or I I would say that I am

Sarah TashaMuslim. I'm not Islam. So Islam is perfect and I'm not perfect. And I think that especially as someone who as a woman who is going through divorce, I

Sarah Tashathink I'm expressing my empowerment in a different way. And my Instagram did not look like that nine months ago. I think I've overgone like a transformation of

Jim Bobsome sort. Can you tell me though because if you hold an an Islam view ultimately something like empowerment would have to be filtered through the

Sarah Tashathe Muslim view, right? So, can you tell me how a picture like that is considered empowerment under Islam? I don't think I hold the Islamic perspective because I'm

Sarah Tashanot Islam. I'm a Muslim. So, that's a that's like me saying I'm a Christian, but I don't hold to Christian doctrine. No, that's not like you saying that. What I'm saying is I have a human way of

Sarah Tashathinking and my human way of thinking is not as perfect as the Islamic law. But you know, so are you saying that's not empowerment?

Sarah TashaNo, I'm saying that my woman empowerment and how I view it is completely separate from Islam and how they view women empowerment. Women empowerment through

Jim BobIslam is projected to be hijab, fully covered, withstaining from sex, you wait until you're married, all that. Okay. separate

Sarah Tashafrom Islam, what do you think women's woman empowerment actually is then from your view in this day and age? I definitely think it's owning who you are. Owning who you are, owning your

Sarah Tashabody, owning your right to choose. I think that while we have religious beliefs in general,

Sarah Tashait doesn't fully align with current day and age. And it takes a special kind of person to be able to persevere through. Am I allowed to cuss? I don't know if

Sarah TashaI'm allowed to cuss, but like be like, "Fuck what's going on in this day and age. I'm going to just fully be submerged in my religion." That takes a special kind of human being. And I have my flesh, too. Like, I'm not perfect.

Jim BobLike I said, I'm not Islam. I'm a Muslim. It seems like this day and age, what you're doing is actually the easier thing to do. And the the rebellious thing to do in this day and age is actually uh be uh humble and subtle,

Jim Bobright? That seems to be harder especially in the west. I agree. Would you agree? I agree. To be modest is actually the challenge. So that's why I think like empowerment if empowerment

Jim Bobfor women means basically share your body and call it liberation. Um I think it's easy to do that. It's not it doesn't take much. So that's why I'm like wondering how could how could

Sarah Tashasomeone call it empowerment if it's so easy to do. I disagree with that only because a lot of women a lot of people are not conf confident and comfortable

Jim Bobwith their bodies. Well, if someone's uncomfortable in principle in showing their body, would you equate that with that they're not confident in their

Jim Bobbody? Because I could see how someone could be confident in their body but just not share it with the entire world. That's why I said it's and be not like or because you could be confident with

Jim Bobyour body and be uncomfortable showing it or you can be comfortable with your body and be uncomfortable showing it. Okay. Are you committed to marrying or

Jim Bobremarrying a Muslim man? Yes, I'm still Muslim and I still would like to marry a Muslim man man. Um, but a liberated, empowered man who like who likes his

Jim Bobwife half naked. Spread eagle on Instagram cuz cuz just to call you out, you called her out for correctly. So, by the way, you said, "Don't you think what you're doing now could affect the future of having children." I didn't call you I didn't

Jim Bobcall you out. I was asking you a question. No, it's a good question about that. You were okay. No, it's I'm not saying it like confrontational. I'm saying that that's a good question. But you need to ask yourself the same question specifically because if you're

Jim Boblooking for a Muslim man, they're going to be even more rigorous than the modern man that you're probably questioning her about. Um when he sees that, you know,

Jim Bobwhat is he going what is this potential um strict let's say a strict um Muslim practitioner is going to say about that? I don't think with where I'm at in my

Sarah Tashalife, I don't think I would be in a situation where I'd be married to a strict Muslim man. Um, so a weak Muslim man. I wouldn't say weak either. I think there's different levels of commitment

Sarah Tashain religion across the board. And this is and it is currently a conversation on my Instagram. I don't hide that I'm Muslim. I say

Sarah Tashaalhamdulillah like all I speak it in my regular everyday speech. Um, and it just it stands that regardless of what

Sarah Tashareligious belief that you say you have, I think everyone struggles in some perspective. Do you think there's as many forms of Islam as there are people?

Jim BobWhat do you mean? I mean, you're saying, well, there's a wide spectrum of people's beliefs and how they hold or practice Islam. But that kind of says that it's like relativist. It's like

Sarah Tashait's like there's no right way. Uh do you hold are you willing to say that there's no right correct way to practice Islam? No. When I Well, let me rephrase what I said. When I say everyone has

Sarah Tashareligious beliefs, I'd mean Christianity, Judaism, whatever you believe in. You're not perfect in your religion. So, I I wasn't saying that there's you could worship in Islam any

Sarah Tashatype of way you want to. No, what's wrong is wrong. And I don't think that what I'm doing on my Instagram is 100% correct. No. But I also have myself in my flesh in the things that I struggle

Sarah Tashawith. Would you put a percent on incorrect that it is? Um, it would be 100% incorrect from an Islam view. From an Islamic view of how a Muslim should be dressed, absolutely

Sarah Tasha100% incorrect. If you want to talk about intention though, that's a completely different story. What is the intention with that kind of content? As I stated, women empowerment. I think,

Sarah Tashayou know, I wasn't asked why I'm going through a divorce. But men have a way of completely breaking you if you allow them to on a spiritual, mental,

Sarah Tashaemotional, sometimes even physical level. And I was in a marriage where I got broken into pieces. And I allowed him to do that because when you're married to someone, you become immersed

Sarah Tashain each other's lives. and you it's very hard to find that separation line and it took me a long time to even get to where I'm at and be comfortable with my body and confident in it enough to even pose something like that. I know. But it's

Jim Bobjust weird because before you criticized this man for being like a lukewarm Muslim, but your your reaction to it, your empowerment reaction, your very

Sarah Tashadefinition of empowerment is lukewarm Islam. I disagree with that too because Islam is not just how you look. It's about how you treat people. But how you treat yourself. But isn't there an

Sarah Tashaelement of treating yourself a certain way? I don't think I don't feel in my heart of hearts that I'm mistreating myself. Okay. But Islam and what is more

Sarah Tashaimportant from my perspective is how you go about treating humanity over how you look. cuz I could look Muslim and be a complete [ __ ] I think you're kind of picking and choosing what you want from

Tiffanythe religion when you're actually one foot in and one foot out. How so? When I said my Instagram was 100% wrong. Wait, say that again. I said my

Sarah TashaInstagram and how it looks was 100% wrong in terms of Islam, Islamic rules. So, how am I action? you're still choosing to post those kind of pictures

Sarah Tashabecause I have weaknesses as a human being and that's how I'm going about portraying myself. But how I'm portraying myself is not Islamic and it is wrong. I didn't pick and choose anything. You're you're not making an

Jim Bobaction though. You're not consciously like choosing to align yourself with the laws of your religion. What do you mean? You're it's in a contradiction. She's

Jim Bobsaying it's also a contradiction. In one st sent sentence, you're saying this is 100% wrong and I know it and you're calling yourself a Muslim. And then premise two is this is empowering. So

Sarah Tashaboth of those can't be true if you call yourself a Muslim. That's incorrect because I would pose the same question to Christians that drink excessively or do drugs but want to call themselves

Sarah TashaChristians. The fact of the matter is religion, one of the reasons it exists is because we are all not perfect and we're striving to be perfect. That's not a good analogy though because a Christian who's a drunkard, which means

Jim Bobthat he's incapable of fulfilling his duties. Not to say someone getting drunk is uncchristian. It's that the perpetuation of disabling yourself such that you can't fulfill your duties. That would be uncchristian. But even in that

Jim Bobexample that that Christian would only it would only be analogous for you to say that if they said this is empowering. You lost me a little bit. They would have to say being drunk, which is

Jim Bobantithetical to Christianity, being a drunkard. If they said it's empowering, that's what you're saying about those pictures. So you're saying it's to totally wrong and inconsistent with Islam, but you're saying it's

Jim Bobempowering, whereas the drunkard Christian is not saying it's empowering. They're not defending it. They're just saying they're weak and they need help and they want they they will repent. You're not saying any of that. You're

Sarah Tashajust saying I'm empowered. I'm saying that on a flesh level and how I think in this worldly society it is empowering to me. If on an Islamic level that's a completely different conversation and

Sarah Tashait's 100% incorrect. That's where you lost me when you were like, "Oh, you're picking choosing stuff from the religion." No, I'm not. It's 100% wrong to post stuff like that on Instagram. It's 100% wrong for me to be sitting

Sarah Tashahere on this podcast with my hair exposed. It's 100%. How do you um how do you define empowerment? I would define empowerment

Sarah Tashaby get the rocks. Get the rocks. Anything that liberates you as the person you want to be. So, I'm a woman. Anything that is liberating me as a woman in today's society, I would define as empowering. Can I add something? I

Alienthink everyone's just having a hard time because like you judged your ex-husband for not being a strong Muslim. So, it's

Sarah Tashalike, you know, I judged him for how he treated people, not how he looked. Well, not on the way that he looks, but I'm just saying like the fact that you're

Jim Bobsaying like what if what she's saying is what if your ex said treating people that way he found empowering as a man, you know, like you know, aggressive man mistreating people, you know, yelling whatever he's doing,

Alienright? You found like the fact that you're the way that you're presenting yourself online, like I don't have a problem with it, by the way. I don't give a [ __ ] But like the way that you're presenting yourself that you're not a strong like Muslim like the way

Sarah Tashathat you portrayed him earlier. You know what I mean? I would say that you're entitled to your opinion and I wouldn't argue with that. However, I think Islam I think all religions well we're talking about Islam. Let me not make this about

Sarah Tashaall religions. In Islam it is more important how you go about treating people and how you maneuver through the world than how you look. That's a superficial. Is that written in the book of Islam? Is what written in the book?

TiffanyYou're talking about the Quran that or the Quran. Yeah. That treating people in kindness is more important than um being modest. No, it doesn't say that. I can't. So So then why are you making the

Sarah Tashajudgment? I'm making the judgment because if I decide to come over there and like do something to you physically, wouldn't that be worse than me just sitting here looking like this?

Jim BobThat's coming from your own mind though. God should be the judge of whether or not Do you want to ask him? Would you like to ask one? Well, we already asked. We No, we already established. That's

Jim Bobwhy it's kind of a roundabout uh argument because ultimately Islam holds that it's all determined. So even even for you to say these pictures are

Jim Bobinconsistent with Islam. For me, I would critique and say, well, they can't be inconsistent because that those pictures were determined and written by Allah anyway. So that can't that can't be

Jim Bobinconsistent with Islam. It's is Allah is determining the way your husband treated other people and you posting those photos. It is inconsistent with Islam because my life story and my

Sarah Tashahusband's life story and all the Muslims life stories are not the Quran. It's not the hadith. It's not Islamic law. Like we have our own journeys. So yeah, it's like subject. You have a subjective.

Jim BobYou're basically writing your own religion inside of your religion, right? Allah wrote my life story inside of Islam. Right? So then it's not inconsistent. It's a determinist view

Jim Bobthat says Allah being the dictator of all pointed and made it so before you even did it that you would do those pictures. So in a sense a shortcut would be to say Allah posted those pictures.

Sarah TashaCorrect? No, I posted those pictures. No, but Allah used you to post those pictures. Right. In some perspect Yeah. Yeah, if you want to view it that way. And to your point, I do remember it does say there are ayas, which is like a

Sarah Tashaverse in the Quran that does say that all sins are not equal. It doesn't directly say that modesty is more important than how you treat people, but it does say that sins are not all equal. Would you say you have a personal

Sarah Tasharelationship with God? Absolutely. And I don't think my relationship with Allah should be judged by my Instagram. Okay. How should your relationship be judged

Sarah Tashaby? I actually think it's inappropriate for you to use a photo to say whether someone is No, no. My question was then how should a person I don't think you

Sarah Tashashould judge. I don't think you should How should Allah judge your photos being that he crafted them himself? I think Allah is going to judge me on

Sarah Tashanot just the photos, but also the intent behind me posting the photos and what led from me posting those photos. Meaning like what the reaction from the

Sarah Tashapublic. I'm going to be judged by what people thought, the thoughts that I provoked, and what people did with those photos. So then, why do the laws of Islam exist in the first place? What do

Nazan Nobleyou mean? If God judges you just based off your intuition, why put yourself under that religion? Why saying that you're Muslim? Why just don't break the barrier and say I don't believe in

Sarah Tashareligion. I do whatever I want to do. Is that the question you meant to ask or like are these two different questions? Um, sort of. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm more

Sarah TashaWell, first of all, when I was 25, I had a break. I don't know who I don't know if anyone said they graduated from college with like a bachelor's degree but like once you graduate I was so

Sarah Tashadepressed like I lost like I think when you're in college it kind of like has a way of making you feel like that's the world but then you you graduate and you're actually exposed to the real

Sarah Tashaworld and I like had a break. Um, when I was Christian, I was so dedicated. I went to Wednesday. Um, after church, I went to Sunday, like Sunday church and

Sarah Tashaall that stuff with my mom. I read the Bible. Um, I did research on Christianity. I even took a class in college. And after I I graduated, it just wasn't resonating with me. I felt really lost. And I was like, I need to

Sarah Tashafind something to believe in. And I I did research and Islam resonated with me the most. It's a religion of logic. So you convert it to It's a religion of logic, but there's a contradiction in it. Wait, so you convert? There's no

Sarah TashaWait, hold on. Let me say this. There's no contradiction because it's wrong. If I decide to take a shot right now on the stream, it can't be wrong. No, it can't

Sarah Tashabe wrong if Allah dictated it. Allah can write for you to sin just for it to be a piece in the story of something halal. But that means Allah sins. That's a

Jim Bobcontradiction. No, Allah is not me. Is Allah the source the n is Allah's nature the nature of good? You guys, I do not subscribe to this conversation. I'm just saying you said there's no

Jim Bobcontradiction, but as soon as you say you're a you're a Muslim and then as soon as you start saying, "Well, what I believe isn't Islam. I am my own person." You're basically taking a

Jim BobDisney Disney character approach to your own religion. No, no, I don't. But we're calling you out and saying if you're going to declare that you're ex, you know, on whatever here, millions of people, millions of Muslims perhaps even

Jim Boblistening, they're going to say uh in reference to what are you calling yourself Muslim? And if you don't say Islam, then I'm not sure what you're saying you are, which is what she's asking what or what you ask. Why call

Jim Bobyourself something that you're not willing to hold yourself to? because you're you're basically crafting an avatar called you and going, "Well, I don't I don't need to follow this. This is my own journey. I'm liberated." And

Sarah Tashathen but you're saying, "But I'm still a part of this beautiful religion." You know, this is a contradiction. You can't have both of those things. It's not a contradiction. You could have a perfect rulebook of how you should go about

Sarah Tashaliving your life and do your best to strive by that perfect rule book. It's a guideline. Like, are you doing hope? In some ways, yes, absolutely. How easy would it be to take all those photos

Brian Atlasdown? That's not hard. It's not hard, but it's connected to my poetry. Wait, it is. One sec. One sec. One sec. Uh I I do have a uh a question on this. So,

Brian Atlasuh, if there was like a I don't know what the specific terminology is, but like let's say there was a, uh, a scholar of Islam here, like what are the names of the priests?

Brian AtlasYeah. And if he was here and he was very clear with you, he was like, "Yeah, this is in contravention of the faith." Um, would you dispute him on that or would you be like, "No, you're right." No,

Brian Atlasabsolutely not. And then so the the cure to I guess you're acknowledged is it a sin? Is that how you would categorize haram? Um wouldn't the cure simply be to

Brian Atlasremove the photos from your Instagram? Yeah. So but you're well no no actually I think you're just like kind of willfully like wouldn't the proper procedure be oh I've now made a

Brian Atlasdetermination and an acknowledgement that this is a sin or haram. Mhm. I But what is stopping you from just I mean the actual physical labor of getting

Brian Atlasyour phone going on your Instagram and then just deleting it. It seems to me like the threshold to actually just

Sarah Tashaceasing the sinning is pretty low. I think we're having a conversation about looking Muslim and then behaving like No, that's a behavior. A photograph of yourself is a behavior. Yeah, but if

Jim BobI take those down, you're saying I'll look more Muslim, but I still will have the same That's fine. You'll have a proclivity. No, you'll have a proclivity, right, toward certain things. You'll cuz you're calling it

Jim Bobpoetry. Honestly, I think that's a copout. Um, but even if I gave you that, right, I just gave you, okay, it's poetry. There's a way to do poetry and and and speak your thoughts and feelings

Jim Bobinto existence. That's there's so many ways that aren't that. In fact, the more creative ways move away from that way cuz that's the easy way. Guess what? Someone could do the same photos who looks just like you, right? Like a

Jim Bobdoppelganger. They do the same exact thing, right? Imagine that existed. How would you know the difference between the Muslim and the non-Muslim if if there was exactly your Instagram, but it was someone else doing the same exact photos? You're not supposed to cuz

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