She Called Him FAT?! If Men SHOULD Take A Bullet For Her, What SHOULD Women Do?! | Dating Talk #241
Date: 2025-05-05
Duration: 6h 36m
Guests
Brian AtlasIdentified Speakers
SPEAKER_03Lily Kate(guest)
SPEAKER_04Callie(guest)
SPEAKER_05Nadia(guest)
SPEAKER_06Tyena(guest)
SPEAKER_07Christina Jones(guest)
SPEAKER_08Brian Atlas(host)
SPEAKER_10Jim Bob(guest)
SPEAKER_11Savannah Craven-Ental(guest)
SPEAKER_12Reagan Gagos(guest)
SPEAKER_13Roxy (Beijing)(guest)
SPEAKER_14Lily (UCSB)(guest)
Key Moments
00:03:24
IntroAll 10 guests introduced including 2 Chinese exchange students and pro-life activist
00:21:12
Key MomentSavannah: punched in face during pro-life outreach, needed stitches
01:48:00
ControversyBrian: would NOT take a bullet for wife. Would use her as meat shield. Children > parents > wife.
03:18:10
Key MomentLily Kate: fake-dated Jojo Siwa's brother for social media content. Lost hundreds of thousands of followers going conservative.
03:27:37
Key MomentCallie: pregnant at 15, walked into abortion clinic, chose open adoption after someone told her about it
05:34:48
Key MomentChristina vs Brian: tension over perceived fat-shaming and weight comments throughout the night
Topics Discussed
00:03:24
Guest Introductions
10 guests including 2 Chinese exchange students, pro-life activist Savannah, and Jim Bob.
00:21:12
Savannah Punched During Outreach
Punched in face by pro-abortion woman during Live Action event. Needed stitches.
00:23:24
Marriage and Biblical Submission
Christian vs secular marriage frameworks. Jim Bob's triangle model.
00:39:00
Feminism Critique
Lily Kate writing '100 Ways Feminism Is a Failure.' Suffragettes as destructive.
01:48:00
Should Men Take a Bullet
Brian: would NOT die for wife. Would use her as meat shield. Rank: children > parents > wife.
02:24:00
Race/Racism/White Privilege
Christina: white people can't experience racism. Savannah pushes back citing Irish/Slavic enslavement.
03:04:51
AI Aging/Gender Swap
AI photos of all guests.
05:16:30
Body Count Round
Nadia: 8 (4M/4W). Reagan: 5. Lily UCSB: 0 (virgin).
Transcript
Page 1 of 8
00:00:15
Brian AtlasWelcome to the Whatever Dating Talk podcast, where we try to make sense of the modern dating hellscape. I'm your host, Brian Atlas. We're coming to you live from Santa Barbara, California. A few quick announcements. This podcast is
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00:02:51
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00:03:00
Brian Atlasa bunch of uh other cool stuff. That's discord.gg/ whatever. Here are all the links for those. Okay, so disclaimer, the views expressed by the guests do not necessarily reflect the views of the
00:03:13
Brian AtlasWhatever channel. With that said, without further ado, we're going to have the guests introduce themselves. So, please tell us your name, age,
00:03:24
Reagan Gagosoccupation, where you're from in education. Go ahead. Hello, my name is Rean Gagos. I'm from Boisee, Idaho. I'm a
00:03:33
Reagan Gagoslandscaper and um high school diploma. I nailed it all. 29. 29. And you said, sir, you're a landscaper? I am. I
00:03:43
Reagan Gagosstarted my own company three years ago. What kind of is it specific kind of everything in the beds landscaping? What's that? I stay in the beds so I don't touch the lawns. No mandow. I'll
00:03:55
Reagan Gagosdo any pruning. I call myself a pruning princess and I'll trim any small trees. Oh my god, that's the third time the
00:04:04
Reagan Gagoslaptop came out of nowhere. Okay. Um I put the can of Mexican. Okay. Uh, all
00:04:15
Christina Jonesright. Cool. What about you? My name is Christina Jones. I'm 40 years old. I am an actress, model, and hair stylist from
00:04:27
Brian AtlasWisconsin, and I went to Martin's College of Cosmetology. Are you actually 40? Yes. Okay. You look you actually uh look younger than than 40. Uh, and you
00:04:40
Christina Jonessaid uh my age range I play is definitely not 40. Take that off. You said uh you're from where again? Sorry. Wisconsin. Wisconsin. Fondelac, Wisconsin. There
00:04:51
Brian Atlasyou go. And did you get a degree in anything orology? Cosmetology and uh real estate. Okay. Real estate agent, too. What about you?
00:05:01
Lily KateMy name is Lily Kate. I'm 23. I'm from the Woodlands, Texas. And I am a business owner of a small social media management company. I also do content
00:05:12
Lily Katecreation and influencing even though I don't like that term that much. Okay. All right. And any college or university or Oh, no. I was homeschooled
00:05:22
Lily (UCSB)though. Homeschooled. Okay. What about you? My name's Lily too and another Lily and I'm 20 years old. Uh now an international school
00:05:33
Lily (UCSB)international student in UCSB and this my first quarter here. Okay. And uh where are you from? China. China. What
00:05:42
Brian Atlaspart of China? Uh like the south of China. Okay. Next to Shanghai. Have you heard of that before? Near near Shanghai. Yes. Gotcha. Okay. And uh what
00:05:53
Lily (UCSB)are you studying at university? Um cuz I study engineering in my own university, but here I study statistics. Statistics. Okay. Got it. And uh you
00:06:06
Lily (UCSB)said it's like a international school program. How long are you planning to be here? M I plan to be here for two quarters but I'm not sure about how long
00:06:18
Lily (UCSB)I can stay here. Oh why why' you say that? Um cuz actually I'm junior now. I had to prepare for my master degree for
00:06:28
Brian Atlassome preparations. Yeah. Okay. And uh so you got here when did you get here? like uh oh uh last month I think. Okay. So
00:06:40
Lily (UCSB)you've only been here for a month? Yes. Is it your first time in the US? Yes. Wow. Okay. And your English is pretty
00:06:47
Lily (UCSB)good. No. No. Actually, did you study English in China? Mhm. Yes. Like when I was 3 years old, I began to study it.
00:06:58
Brian AtlasGot it. Okay. And uh so you're and you're planning to be here you said for a couple months basically. Yes. Okay. Got it. Okay. Cool. What
00:07:10
Savannah Craven-Entalabout you? Hi, my name is Savannah Craven Ental. I'm 23 years old and I'm a full-time pro-life activist and I make YouTube videos. I went to college for
00:07:21
Savannah Craven-Entalmusical theater in New York City, which is where I still live. All right. And are you from New York City? No, I was born in DC but grew up in South
00:07:29
Roxy (Beijing)Carolina. Got it. Okay, welcome. What about you? Um, my name is Roxy and I
00:07:36
Roxy (Beijing)from Beijing, China. And um I'm uh exchange student. Uh my major is
00:07:46
Brian Atlasjournalism and communication. Okay. How old are you? Uh 21. 21. Got it. And uh you said you're from Beijing. Yeah. China. Got it.
00:07:57
Brian AtlasAnd uh are how long have you been here? Uh 1 month. One month. Okay. Did you guys know each other? Uh yes. Okay. So you came together? Yes. Sort of. Okay.
00:08:07
Brian AtlasGotcha. And uh Okay. You're from Beijing. You're here for you've been here. And is it your first time in the United States? Yes. Okay. Cool. All
00:08:16
Tyenaright. What about you? My name is Tyena. I'm 33. I'm from Jersey City in Jersey. Um, and I'm I'm almost done with my bachelor's at John J, but you know, I'm
00:08:28
Tyenaa mom, so trying to balance the two. Okay. Your uh bachelor's in what? Uh, bachelor's in English major, law minor. I'm a parallegal. So, parallegal. Okay.
00:08:38
CallieVery cool. What about you? Uh, my name is Callie. I am a mother and I also run a pro-life, proad adoption organization called Talk About Adoption. Age? Um,
00:08:49
Brian AtlasI'll be 40 actually this August. Okay. Mhm. Where are you from or Virginia? Virginia. Okay. All right. Welcome. What
00:08:59
Nadiaabout you? My name is Nadia. I am 30 years old. I'm from Jersey City. Um I am a server, a live stream Tik Tok host,
00:09:09
Jim Boband also an RBT, U registered behavioral tech. I have some college and um certified uh CDA. Okay, cool. Um my name is Jim Bob. Um,
00:09:21
Jim BobI'm a YouTuber over at madebyjimob.com. I'm also a satirical cartoonist. You can find my comic books at madebyjimob.com. Savage Memes volume 3, four, and five. And uh, do we have those books? Did you?
00:09:34
Jim BobYeah, we do. No, no, no. I gave them to you. They should be at your house, Brian. They're right there. Okay, got it. Um, and uh, most people don't know this about me that I um, I went to
00:09:45
Jim Bobschool for metal smithing. So, I I became an expert goldsmith, platinum smith, and silver smith, but I quit all of that to to make funny jokes. All right, rock and roll. Well, welcome
00:09:58
Brian Atlaseverybody. We're going to go around the table once more. So, what is your current relationship status? If you're single, how long have you been single? And what's the longest relationship
00:10:09
Reagan Gagosyou've ever been in? Go ahead. I've been single for like a year now and my longest relationship was four years. One year. Longest relationship four
00:10:19
Brian Atlasyears. Uh was that the one that ended a year ago? Correct. Okay. Who broke up with who? I broke up with him. Why? Where do I begin? Uh
00:10:34
Reagan Gagosuh political reasons. and we just basically were not going the right direction in life. We want different things. Um I couldn't even spend my
00:10:46
Reagan Gagosfirst two Christmases with his family because I was unvaccinated. You were unvaccinated. So I was not allowed in the house. What were the
00:10:56
Reagan Gagospolitical or the You said political reasons. I'm red. He's blue.
00:11:07
Reagan GagosIt it was a discussion that his family would only talk about political things and it was just draining and I'm sorry. I'm from a Mexican family that just
00:11:17
Reagan Gagoswants to love and not talk about that kind of stuff. So, okay. There was just some tension.
00:11:24
Brian AtlasSure. Okay. Um yeah, that sounds good. Um what about you? Uh scroll back up, Mary. Scroll up on that. Go ahead.
00:11:38
Brian AtlasI've been single technically like 16 years. My longest relationship was 3 years. Been single for 16 years. It's a long
00:11:49
Brian Atlasstory. Longest three years. Who bro was that the the three-year one? Was that the one that ended 16 years ago?
00:11:57
Christina JonesThat one ended 17 17 years ago. Seven. Okay. Mhm. Uh, so you've not had a boyfriend in the past 16 years?
00:12:08
Brian AtlasNot officially. No, not officially. I've dated. Yeah. What's the longest period of time in the 16 years that you've uh seen a guy like you saw? So I went 8 and
00:12:20
Brian Atlas1/2 years without dating at all and I was abstinent. You're abstinent for 8 years. Mhm. Eight and a half. Celibate. Celibate. Yeah.
00:12:30
Christina JonesUh, when was that? How old? From from what age to what age? That [Music]
00:12:37
Brian Atlaswas 24 to 33. 24 to 33. Okay. Uh, why?
00:12:49
Christina JonesWell, um, I got sober January 6, 2010. Um, so before that, prior to that, um, I
00:13:01
Christina Joneshad just bad relationships. I didn't want to I wanted to just be alone. And then I met someone in sobriety, but he
00:13:11
Brian Atlascouldn't stay clean, so I waited for him for 8 and 1/2 years. Okay. Um, got it. Mary, you can fix that. So, if you Sorry, guys, we're got a
00:13:23
Brian Atlastechnical issue. You see where it says scenes on the on the border? Uh, no. On the border. I'll just go by I'll just go
00:13:34
Christina Jonesfix it. Um, okay. Can Can you tell us the story? Which I mean which part?
00:13:42
Christina JonesThe juiciest. Um, yeah. I mean uh I met someone in uh NA Narcotics Anonymous. I
00:13:50
Christina Joneshad 6 months clean when he came in and uh it was like a love at first sight situation. Uh he couldn't stay clean in and out of jail but I loved him. I
00:14:02
Christina Joneswanted to wait for him. Hopefully he could get it together and uh that did not happen. So 6 and 1/2 years ago I started dating
00:14:14
Christina Jonesagain. And then uh for the last six and a half I would people don't I maybe the longest I've seen someone is maybe like two months.
00:14:29
Brian AtlasOkay. Um so how about recently though? Has there are there any guys in the picture
00:14:41
Christina Jonesas of very recently? Yes. Okay. How many guys are in the picture? One. Oh, just one. Okay. Have you ever
00:14:50
Lily Katehad a roster? No. Have you ever had a roster? No. Never? No. Never? No. Too messy. What about you? Currently
00:15:01
Lily Katesingle. My last relationship ended a month ago. Um, my longest relationship was four years. And um, it was with my neighbor back home. super
00:15:14
Lily Katesweet, but his parents didn't like me, so it wasn't going to work. Was that the one that ended a month ago? No. No, that was um someone else. Okay.
00:15:24
Brian AtlasBroken off engagement. Uh so the most recent relationship, how long were you dating him? We dated for 9 months and then got engaged after after
00:15:34
Lily Katenine months and then we were engaged for three. I see. Okay. Yeah. Uh who broke up with who? He took the ring from my bathroom. He took the ring from your bathroom. Yep.
00:15:48
Lily (UCSB)Okay. Uh and then the four-year relationship, who broke up with who? I left him. You left him? Okay. All right. What about
00:15:56
Lily (UCSB)you? Uh um actually now in my first relationship. Yeah. Okay. For like um 3 months I thought and it was the longest
00:16:08
Brian Atlasrelationship. Yeah. Okay. And is he uh is he here in the US or? No, he's in China. Yes. Uh we are
00:16:19
Lily (UCSB)the same college and we are in the same Batman school team. So I just know him from the from the game. Okay. And you
00:16:30
Brian Atlassaid it's your first ever relationship. Yes. Okay. How did you guys meet? Was there was it a dating app in person or uh just in person? from on the badminton
00:16:40
Lily (UCSB)team. Yes, the badminton team. Okay. Are you Are you good at badminton? Maybe. I just can't say that. Cuz we
00:16:50
Brian Atlaslose the game. Oh, Zed donated $200. Oh, thank you. Very cool panel tonight. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you, Z. Uh, all right. Uh, okay.
00:17:02
Savannah Craven-EntalWhat about you? I'm happily married for 4 months and my longest relationship is the one that I'm in now. How long have you guys been together? Yes, since March
00:17:13
Brian Atlas2023. Okay. So, uh just over two years. Yes. All right. Rock and roll. What about you? Uh I have been single for one years
00:17:24
Roxy (Beijing)and my um longest relationship um is one year. One year. Okay. And uh who broke up with who? Uh I
00:17:36
Brian Atlasbroke up with him. You broke up with him. Okay. And have you done uh have you dated at all here in the United States?
00:17:45
Brian AtlasUm no. No. Okay. Uh have uh well you said you've only been here for what? One one month. Yeah. One month. Okay. So maybe you've been busy with uh school.
00:17:57
Brian AtlasWould you uh like do you have a preference for like would you date while you're here or do you feel like it's not worth your
00:18:05
Roxy (Beijing)time? I'm sorry. Uh how do I frame this? Uh here. Um no.
00:18:17
Brian AtlasBut is it because you're like you're only here for a short period and you're working on uh school or is it because you don't like American men?
00:18:28
Roxy (Beijing)Um uh uh how to say uh um I'm busy at school. Busy with school. Okay, that was the nice answer.
00:18:38
Brian AtlasAll right. Have you ever been on a dating app? Um no. No. Okay. And
00:18:45
Brian Atlasuh have you gone to like any parties? Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. because uh UCSB it's a
00:18:53
Brian Atlasbig uh you know co uh party school. Um I went to party with you party with our Okay. Okay. And do you get like do you get approached when you go out to the
00:19:05
Lily (UCSB)parties? Um do you guys hit on you? They uh come up they come up and
00:19:14
Lily (UCSB)flirt. Do men talk to you? They they talk to you. Uh friends of mine just take us to the party. Okay, got it.
00:19:23
TyenaOkay. Um All right. What about you? I've been in a relationship for 3 years. Um I mean, we're definitely going to get married. It's just a matter of like figuring a bunch of things out, you
00:19:35
Callieknow, until we can do that. Longest relationship? Five years. Five years. Who broke up with who? I broke up with him. Okay. What about you? I have been
00:19:45
Calliemarried for probably eight going on 19 years. I think 18 years total. Mhm. Okay. That's crazy because you look 18.
00:19:56
NadiaYeah. You're blowing my mind. We met We met in college. So, yeah. I have a relationship. I'll keep you. All right. What about you? Um, so I'm in a relationship. Um, we're about to make
00:20:07
Nadiafive years. Um, my longest relationship is five years. Mhm. So, this one um there was another one, but I was a baby. So, does that really count? I don't know. But who broke up with who in the
00:20:17
Brian Atlasother one? The other one. Um it was mutual. It really It was okay. All right. It was mutual. Jim Bob, what about you? I've been with my wife for
00:20:27
Brian Atlasnine years. What's up, Mag Bob? We a lot of people in uh marriages relationships at this table. So, okay,
00:20:36
Brian Atlascool. So, uh let's see. We have a do we have chats? Uh, okay. Oh. Uh, okay. I'll read it. Um, Chef Dylan, what I would like to know what the lovely oriental
00:20:47
Brian Atlasladies think of the Chinese Communist Party. Okay. Don't be nice. Um, do you I don't know if you guys want to answer this. You don't have to. Freaking Chef
00:20:57
Lily (UCSB)Dylan. Chinese Communist Party. [Music] You can say no comment. I'm not sure
00:21:06
Lily (UCSB)about how what's the communist party. What's that? Oh, wait. What's that? How do you control? Wait, you don't How do you know about the Chinese government? Yeah. No, that's
00:21:19
Brian Atlasnot the question. Yeah, that's not the Well, kind of. I guess it's kind of skip. Okay. All right. Thank you, Chef. I read it. There you go. Uh, okay. Oh, and then this is below the threshold.
00:21:32
Brian AtlasDid Oh, yeah. You got punched. Thanks. Yeah. Unfortunately, we can't we can't show it because like YouTube doesn't like assaults. But uh what happened? Do you want to tell us what happened? Sure.
00:21:43
Savannah Craven-EntalSo, I was out doing work for an awesome organization called Live Action. We're talking about the Defund Planned Parenthood efforts cuz right now Planned Parenthood, which is America's largest
00:21:54
Savannah Craven-Entalabortion provider, takes nearly $700 million of our taxpayer money. And even people that are pro-abortion, you know, really don't want to be forced to pay for other people's abortions. And yeah, it was like any other conversation with
00:22:07
Savannah Craven-Entalsomebody who supports Planned Parenthood. We were just talking. She was very much in support of Planned Parenthood. And she said something really outrageous, uh, which I think even
00:22:19
Savannah Craven-Entalpro-choicers and pro-abortion people would think is crazy. uh she said that we should kill babies in foster care and that's like better than them being born.
00:22:28
Savannah Craven-EntalAnd that is an argument that a lot of pro-aborts use to defend abortion. And I simply just repeated back what she said to me after she was kind of going on this long rant about like, you know, how
00:22:39
Savannah Craven-Entalshe doesn't like the police and bringing up Elon, Trump, things that don't have anything to do with what we were talking about. And I was like, well, you know, I'm not the one who decided to kill babies or said that it would be okay to
00:22:51
Savannah Craven-Entalkill babies in in foster care and kill children that have been abused. And she said, that's not the point. And then she punched me in the face. Once with her fist and then twice or another time with
00:23:01
Savannah Craven-Entalher phone, which broke open my face and I had to go to the hospital and get stitches. Good times. F fun experience. Yes. All right, so I'm
00:23:13
Brian Atlasgonna get into the uh pre-show notes here. So, where do we begin? Uh, uh, you know what, Savannah, we'll just start with you. You respectfully
00:23:24
Brian Atlasdisagree with the host on marriage and religion. Uh, what do you mean? Are these interconnected or are they separate? Yes. So, I believe in marriage because
00:23:36
Savannah Craven-EntalI'm a Christian. I believe that marriage is created by God. And yeah, it's I mean it's the most beautiful thing I think that two people can do because it's man
00:23:47
Savannah Craven-Entaland woman being brought together and becoming one person. And it's beautiful. Um you know having children within marriage is something that I want to do
00:23:58
Savannah Craven-Entalone day. And I believe I'm I'm a Catholic and Catholic Christian because I know that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. He paid the ultimate price um
00:24:10
Savannah Craven-Entalso that we could have the chance to live forever with him in heaven. And there is more proof for Christianity than any other religion that's been created. What's your specific disagreement
00:24:22
Savannah Craven-Entalthough? My specific disagreement? Well, I'm not totally sure about your opinion
00:24:30
Brian Atlason religion actually. Uh, I mean, why don't you relate the disagreement to marriage, though? What is your disagreement?
00:24:43
Savannah Craven-EntalDo you believe in marriage? Cuz I'm not sure how they got that. I disagree with you on there. I don't know who put that in there. I respectfully, it says, I respectfully
00:24:52
Brian Atlasdisagree with the host on marriage and religion. Um, but okay. Uh, yeah. I mean I understand the religious arguments for
00:25:02
Brian Atlasmarriage but from a secular perspective and there are even warnings that you could give to uh somebody who's Christian or who's of another religion there are certain risks
00:25:14
Brian Atlasuh typically to the bread winner which is typically the man although sometimes the woman can be the bread winner but there's some differences there too. Uh essentially marriage my view is uh
00:25:27
Brian Atlasdivorce at least the divorce component of marriage is financially quite harmful to men uh disproportionately. Uh I don't really
00:25:37
Brian Atlassee the point of marriage outside of religion and maybe that might you might actually agree with me. What would be the point of getting married if you're not religious? Yeah. Cuz I don't really
00:25:49
Savannah Craven-Entalthink it is a marriage if you're not religious. It's just like you're signing a paper, okay? You know, joining two people together like legally. Well, then I would just this then I would just I I
00:26:00
Brian Atlasguess advise even religious men, even Christian men, although the religion uh would compel one to uh maybe not compel is not the right word. Uh marriage is obviously strongly
00:26:13
Brian Atlasencouraged. uh that there are still risks even for uh rel uh religious men when it comes to getting married and these risks should be weighed when making such a decision.
00:26:25
Brian AtlasSo the financial component and also even if you are Christian the uh the religion doesn't oversee the marriage the state does. So in the event of a divorce uh well I
00:26:39
Savannah Craven-Entalguess you're Catholic do you believe in divorce? No. Okay. So, so I'm a little bit different than Protestants there, right? Okay. So, you you're like, I'm not kidding. You're married, right? Yeah. You have to take it really really
00:26:51
Savannah Craven-Entalseriously. You have to make sure that this is really something that you want because you're literally going into it forever. Like, literally to death do us part and willing to go through the ups
00:27:02
Savannah Craven-Entaland downs. And there are a lot, you know, you've been married for 9 years. I'm sure you've been through a lot already. I mean, my husband is from a different country. He moved here so that we could be together and get married like of course. Wait, where's he from?
00:27:14
Savannah Craven-EntalIndia. India. Yes. It's not like a green card marriage, is it? It's not. No. Can I It's like a 90-day fiance situation. Like I love it. Well, we got married on the K1 visa,
00:27:25
Lily Katewhich you do get. It's 90 days to get married once you get the visa. As her maid of honor in her wedding, I can certify he actually does love her and I made sure of that beforehand. Like she's settling for less.
00:27:38
Lily KateHusband is awesome. But something I want to say too from a secular point of view, marriage is an institution. It is the most basic political institution. And if people can't revere an institution and
00:27:50
Lily Katekeep it institutionalized, then the whole societyy's going to fall apart around it. And so that's from you know a non-religious point of view why marriage is actually so important. It's one union. You become one person. Um and
00:28:02
Lily Katethat's a good thing because then a country can have structure around that. Not only children can be reared properly and well, but then you can actually have reverence for whatever form of government you have. But you would well
00:28:16
Jim BobI was going to push back on that a little because the context for marriage as Savannah said from a Christian lens uh visualize it like this. Uh two people are inside of a circle and at the center
00:28:27
Jim Bobof the circle is Christ. And so when you move closer to Christ, you get closer to the c uh closer together, right? But from a secular view, you're actually marrying each other's preferences. And
00:28:38
Jim Bobso now there's two dots in in the circle and none of them are are Christ or or the faith. So what happens with a secular marriage is you're basically, you know, the cliche till death do us
00:28:48
Jim Bobpart. Well, a secular marriage is is basically till our preferences change, do we part? Mhm. And that's why it really has even if you borrowed the general foundation and said, "Oh, this
00:28:59
Jim Bobis this is like uh in reverence to the state and the structure of society." Descriptively, I kind of agree with that that structures better than none. But if you have a structure and it has no foundation or context, it's really just
00:29:11
Lily Katea structure on sand. And I think secular marriage is basically you know and as a reformed Baptist I fully agree with the you know you have to have Jesus as the at the center of marriage because
00:29:21
Lily Katethere's no other way you can get through anything if you don't but you know from the state's point of view or someone else's secular point of view. I mean it is an institution and it's commonly described especially in like
00:29:33
Jim Bobconservative founding philosophies and such as the basic fundamental institution. And so, you know, just another way to think about it, but but I agree with you. It's it's become something that we just like expect, you
00:29:45
Jim Bobknow, that people kind of do. The the main difference here is if we ask if if you guys asked us, do we have an obligation to stay married? The answer is yes. If you ask a secularist if they
00:29:56
Jim Bobhave an obligation, they don't. Right. Right. Right. So it's like, okay, like you can borrow the the Christian paradigm and sort of try to slop it on to a secular framework, but if there's
00:30:08
Jim Bobno obligation, it's like it's kind of like good luck. Uh you're kind of they're kind of like playing it's like laring. It's like live action role playing Christianity. Yeah. And it's like, you know, I do agree somewhat
00:30:19
Jim Bobdescriptively that like structure for children is better than no structure, but it's like what's the what's the structure derivative of if it's not Christianity? I'm not I've never gotten
00:30:32
Savannah Craven-Entalan answer in all my years of debating. So, have there's no with bringing up children. It's better if children have parents that are married just
00:30:42
Savannah Craven-Entalstatistically. Yes. Well, there's a strong bond. Um, of course, from like if if you're saying, you know, there's a little girl that the that the parents have, she can look to her parents and
00:30:54
Savannah Craven-Entaland you know, her father to who would be a good person for her to look to marry one day. As somebody who grew up without my father in the home, just like many many children and especially minority
00:31:05
Savannah Craven-Entalchildren in America today have the same experience. It is. And even President Obama has talked about fatherlessness within the black community. Uh just how
00:31:16
Savannah Craven-Entalit's more likely for the daughter to grow up and be with men that don't want to marry her, have children outside of marriage. And we know the effects of
00:31:24
Savannah Craven-Entalthat. Um and just men like little boys going into gangs, turning to drug use. If you don't have a strong mother and father figure in the home, like it just isn't a positive for children. I mean,
00:31:37
Tyenaeven for boys, it doesn't even have to be as as extreme as like doing or selling drugs. It could be like they don't have a healthy example of what a relationship is. So, they're going to see mom trying to date going through guys or mom not dating at all and they
00:31:49
Tyenahave no point of reference of how to treat a woman and or even to be in a relationship and to be your best p your best self so you can be that for another person. They have no point of reference. It's also a marriage um inside a house
00:32:00
Jim Bobfrom a Christian lens is reflective of the hierarchy of the of the society. So there's a natural hierarchy. Feminism fights against this hierarchy, but you can't without borrowing from the dudes
00:32:12
Jim Bobultimately. And so to add on to what she said is that um when you're when you're married and your bond is to Christ or the church and you are an extension of
00:32:22
Jim Bobit, um even we uh teaching our kids very early that they are the fruits of the of the marriage. But if you're not fruits of the marriage, what are you fruits of?
00:32:32
Jim BobJust an act, right? Just a like an act that's either sterile or not. Whoops, we had a baby. Like there's no context for it. It's just strict like nature, right? That's the context is you're you're an
00:32:44
Jim Bobeffect of nature. Like can you imagine teaching your kids they're just merely the effect of nature and nothing else. I mean, no wonder they act like animals. Well, and then families that have a strong father who is Christian in the
00:32:55
Lily Katehome, typically you'll get children who are also in that same religion. In single mother households, the difference between having a father who practices the religion and just a mother who practices religion is like 40 points.
00:33:07
Lily KateUm, so you will typically not have children who go into the faith if they live in a single mother household. Um, on but if they live in a single father household and he practices Christianity, they will likely be in the faith. And
00:33:19
Lily Katethen obviously the odds are even higher if both parents are in the religion. So for the perpetuation of a strong and stable faith,
00:33:28
Brian Atlashouseholds must be held together. Mhm. Can I uh I mean absent religion though, can anybody present to me any compelling
00:33:38
Brian Atlasand convincing arguments why uh I or other men should get married?
00:33:45
Savannah Craven-EntalLike I just feel like it's manly to dedicate yourself to one woman and Yes. I know that that's not a popular uh opinion. Yeah. Do you need marriage to
00:33:57
Savannah Craven-Entaldedicate yourself to one woman? No. Yeah. But I think that it's it's more likely since it's like a stronger bond. I feel like when you you marry
00:34:08
Savannah Craven-Entalsomeone, I mean, just by experience that you just become closer to each other and there's a different level of dedication. It's like, oh, I if you know, tomorrow I decide to just
00:34:19
Tyenaleave. It's not like I can just walk out the door. It would be a long process. I mean, if even if you could always make the argument, okay, if you want to have kids, continue your legacy. It's always better to be married. But even if somebody if a man like doesn't want
00:34:30
Tyenakids, okay, but when you're old and 80 and you need somebody to wipe your butt, like do you want to be doing that alone? Do you want to be in a nursing home having a stranger just letting you sit in it all day? Or do you want someone who loves you who's going to be there
00:34:41
Tyenaand help take care? Yeah. You don't need marriage for that, though. It just always I feel like it gives it more of like it's a one foot in, one foot out. We were just having this conversation the other day. It's like having one foot in and one foot out.
00:34:53
TyenaLike you need some sort of commitment. If for me I'm like if you're not committing to be married you know or if it's not a goal you know for you in your relationship it's it's kind of like you can bounce whenever you want and that
00:35:05
Brian Atlasdoesn't really give stability people get divorced all the time right but it's a much lengthier process and again I mean I was raised Catholic so you're staying together under because it's a little more complicated not to
00:35:18
Tyenasay that you stay together because it's more complicated but it kind of gives you more time to also evaluate the relationship or evaluate yourself is is that what you really want to do. If you choose to, you know, more power to you,
00:35:28
Tyenathat's your decision. But I mean, I feel like it also it's not an easy way out cuz people also like the easy way out. They like the convenience. It's kind of easy. Unfortunately, divorce really easy to
00:35:40
Brian Atlasjust leave someone if you're not committed in a marriage. Yeah. But so I guess all the things you guys have listed though, you have somebody uh somebody there in old age, you have a a
00:35:52
Brian Atlasfamily, you have children, you can have all of these outside of marriage. So I could stay with the same woman for my all my life. We could have multiple
00:36:03
Tyenakids. We're also assuming every guy is a good partner, too. We're also assuming every guy will be a good partner. So I mean not not everybody I feel like I mean we have so many people. What are the rat what's the ratio of like women
00:36:15
Tyenato men in this country? I don't know three women to one man or Yeah. And not every men want to get married. It's not three women. It's it's about three women. But I feel like women are correct
00:36:26
Jim Bobme if I'm wrong because I would say Brian there if you're not converting to Christianity um then you're right there would be no ultimate reason because the
00:36:37
Jim Bobcontext for marriage can't just be the kind of outcomes because like Brian said you could produce all those outcomes without the marriage. So it really brings into the question well what is a marriage and from my perspective my
00:36:49
Jim Bobfaith is you're you're actually marrying to a body. uh it's there's a third there's a third aspect to it. It's not just to each other. And so without that the question is uh you know why should
00:37:01
Jim Bobyou convert to Christianity is a question before why should you get married? And so um if you were exploring that Brian I would start with should I consider uh Christianity as a practice
00:37:13
Jim Bobas a life then that would give you your context for marriage. But otherwise, you'd be right. Without the context, it's kind of a useless question. Like, why would you get married? There is no there would be no use or purpose or or
00:37:26
Brian Atlasthere's not even an ontology of marriage from that perspective. Okay. Uh let's see. I guess uh who here is uh cuz we Christianity has come up a little bit.
00:37:38
Brian AtlasWho here is Christian? Just show of hands. Catholic. Yeah. Christian. Uh okay. Cath. Just
00:37:47
Brian Atlascurious. Uh let's see here. Uh Jim Bob, under uh Christianity are are uh wives should
00:37:58
Jim Bobthey be submissive to their husbands? Yeah. It's uh kind of view it like this. Um the husband is the head and the wife is the neck. And so uh you need the
00:38:08
Jim Bobneck. It's a component of the body. Um and uh the marriage is an extension of the of the body which is the church. So everything has a hierarchy. And when you
00:38:18
Jim Bobsay women should be submissive to men, it's a duty difference. It's not a value difference. It it just naturally a even in nature it's a there's a a discrepancy
00:38:29
Jim Bobbetween male and female as uh the debate yesterday if you saw it that um men are geared towards certain uh duties and behaviors and women are geared toward
00:38:39
Jim Bobothers. and that could actually uh kind of inform you what the duties could be. So the problem with the term is submissive has been largely in the last
00:38:49
Jim Bobhundred years been uh railed into women's head and now men that it's a bad thing. But the problem is uh under Christianity uh the man is also to be
00:39:00
Jim Bobsubmissive to someone higher. And so this is one thing I push back with people who are sort of like red pill. They're like, they borrow a Christian lens to say women should be submissive.
00:39:11
Jim BobBut if they don't see how being submissive from his perspective is uh a virtue, why would they follow you? Yeah. So, you're the god, you're the pope, you're the you're the master. Well,
00:39:23
Jim Bobwho's your master? And so, um it's not it's not a a riddle to me why women are taking it that way. They're they're like, why would I why would I submit to you? And it's like, cuz I'm strong,
00:39:36
Jim Bobright? Well, no, that's not a good enough reason because I'm rich. Still not even a good enough reason. So, yeah, from a Christian view, it's a good question because if you ask the same question from a different view without a Christian lens, I'm not sure there's a
00:39:49
Brian Atlasgood answer why women should submit to men. Yeah, we have a message here from Lucas. It's regrettable, but secular marriage is no longer a manageable risk
00:39:58
Brian Atlasfor men. Approximately 50% of marriages end in divorce. Approximately 80% of divorces are initiated by women.
00:40:07
Brian AtlasApproximately 85% of alimony is paid from from men to women. Same with child support. Men are mostly and he looks
00:40:15
Brian Atlaslike he has a followup here. Uh so I'll wait for that to come through. Um but uh I guess going back to the submissive
00:40:28
Brian Atlasthing, um would you guys consider those of you who are married or in relationships, those of you who are Christian, uh would you or will you be or are you submissive
00:40:39
Savannah Craven-Entalto your husband or boyfriend or whatever? Yes, absolutely. Okay. And it's in any any situation, you know, it doesn't matter who's making more money, what situation you're in. um you know if
00:40:51
Lily Katehe's sick and you're healthy like he is the head of the household and you're the neck just like Jim Bob said I would agree with that case for you. Oh well since I'm single I
00:41:01
Lily Kateguess I you know right now um when you get a boyfriend or married or yeah I mean the dating process is for figuring out if they can be a a good leader to you and they actually are submitted to the Lord. Um, you know, in my recent
00:41:14
Lily Katerelationship, the hierarchy was, you know, God, him, me, of course, and then he stepped right out and then it was, you know, the hierarchy remains still God, myself. Um, and so, you know, we we
00:41:26
Lily Katewe weren't married and we aren't. Um, and so, you know, that's just something we had to figure out. But, um, you know, my um, dedication to the Lord does not change what based on the relationship
00:41:39
Lily KateI'm in. And if the husband is not submitted to the Lord, then you know he steps out of line. My direct line is still to the Lord because he's the ultimate authority. Sure. What about you guys over here? I I was going to say you made a difference between secular
00:41:51
Calliesubmission and biblical submission. And so for me being married as long as I have, we do biblical submission. And um I do want to mention Paul did say before the submission towards the wife towards
00:42:04
Calliethe husband, he did say we are to submit to one another under Christ. He did lay that foundation. Do you know what I'm saying? Right. But it's uh the Are you saying that it's like No, I'm saying I agree with you. I'm I'm just saying
00:42:17
Jim Bobsecular submission and biblical submission are two totally different things, right? Yeah. I don't even know what how would we even define. Like to me, a secular secular submission would be a set of uh manipulations that either
00:42:29
Tyenacould do, right? That's all it would be. That is why I feel like this whole feminist idea like der what it derived from. It was like, well, it it was it was already doomed from the start. There was like no basis in in the relationship
00:42:43
Tyenaif you're only submitting to the man. It's just like an ego stroke. So, like, no, it's not going to work. And then you're going to have women acting out. But that's not how it's supposed to be. Well, and then feminists always assume that submission means subjugation and
00:42:54
Lily Katethat she's going to be a slave. And I always tell feminists that's not what it means. It means yielding. It means yielding to his leadership and yielding to the things that he wants to do. And that is a really edifying thing for a
00:43:06
Lily Katewoman's heart. Um it's so healthy. It's so good when it's done in the right way. Um and so feminists though, they really like to come after specifically Savannah and I because we're we always say like
00:43:17
Lily Kateit's not subjectivity. It's not um beating a woman into subordination. That's not what the Bible talks about. And if feminists actually wanted to read the Bible and and actually look at what it says, then they'd figure out really
00:43:30
Lily Katequickly that Eve's curse from the beginning has been she wanted to dominate over her husband. Obviously, the pains and childbirth part, and that's very easy to understand, but she's always wanted to dominate and control over her husband, and feminism
00:43:42
Brian Atlasis really the institutionalization of Eve's curse, and that's why I'm against it. Yeah. And uh I have a question for you, Savannah, related to this. So, you're married. Uh you do quite a bit of
00:43:53
Brian Atlassocial advocacy when it comes to your anti-abortion stuff. Maybe you do some political stuff too or Yes.
00:44:02
Brian AtlasIf your husband asked you to stop your social media stuff and stop your advocacy, would you? It would have to be a conversation as to
00:44:14
Savannah Craven-Entalwhy Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. Yes. If it were if it was like causing issues in our marriage, then obviously yes, because that's what's more important to
00:44:26
Savannah Craven-Entalme. But as we are both Catholic Christians and we're called to speak out and you know against abortion cuz it's the intentional ending of an innocent
00:44:37
Savannah Craven-Entalhuman life that's made in the image of God. It would kind of make you question like well is he disagreeing with what God is telling us to do and and what we're supposed to be called? Let's
00:44:48
Brian Atlasassume Yeah. Let's assume he he's on board with uh with the message. He's not he's not pro-choice or anything, right?
00:44:59
Brian AtlasBut he just makes a determination. He's like, "You know what? I just don't want you out there on social media like that. Uh just don't want you to do it." Yeah.
00:45:10
Savannah Craven-EntalWould you Okay. So, you'd stop. It's actually something that I asked Yeah, I would. It's actually something that I asked him about before we got married. like cuz obviously I was already making
00:45:21
Savannah Craven-Entalpolitical and pro-life content before and I was just kind of like what do you think about this cuz I I really eventually want to take this to the next level and that's what I recently kicked off my YouTube channel and I was like
00:45:33
Savannah Craven-Entalthis is what I want to do. This is what I feel called to do. Like how do you feel about it? And it was definitely something that he thought about because there are a lot of risks that go into it. Obviously you can see I got punched in the face. Like it's not exactly um
00:45:45
Savannah Craven-Entalsafe all of the time. It's not fun a lot of the time going into these big crowds and getting screamed at and called names. And I know that he he's very protective and he doesn't want to see me
00:45:56
Savannah Craven-Entalget hurt. And so he wouldn't want to put me in a situation where that might happen just as a guy. So just a point of clarification. Uh you said there would
00:46:06
Savannah Craven-Entalhave to be a conversation about it. Uh well I would want to know why. Like I would say yes. Okay. But can I know why? Okay. Okay. I don't really think I have
00:46:18
Brian Atlasany push back there. Uh I maybe the situation could be you got attacked. He could be like, "Yeah, your safety. I don't want my wife getting beat up on the street." So
00:46:30
Jim Bobthere's also another element there that'll pro God willing will be on the horizon is once you have children the thing you're weighing ultimately uh within a Christian paradigm is uh can
00:46:42
Jim Bobyou fulfill your duties at home as a mother even if what you're doing is like super amazing and you know pro-Christian and everything and that seems like if you're already in a Christian paradigm it's like a no-brainer anyway like you'd
00:46:55
Jim Bobbe like you choose your kid over potentially getting punched in the face just with the potential uh that you could change one woman's mind from from doing what that what she's doing. But uh
00:47:07
Jim Bobthat ends up coming first. So some people don't see it that way though. They they go, "Well, no, you know, I'm a boss babe. You know, I'm a Christian boss babe." And you're like, "Yeah, but
00:47:19
Jim Bobdoes that mean abandoning your duties?" And well, yeah, if I'm a boss, God made me a boss babe. And they basically take this approach. And then the marriage suffers. And if there's children, uh, they would suffer as well from that
00:47:31
Jim Bobview. And that's why, uh, on this podcast especially, we ask people who are proposed, uh, you know, who say they're Christian, but then really it comes out later that they're really just
00:47:42
Jim Bobkind of feminists like undercover or they really just want the to win and and be the center of attention. And so, you know, yeah, it's always a fair question to ask. Yeah, we had a conversation
00:47:53
SPEAKER_00after Christine donated $200. Ladies, let me give you some game to counter Brian. Just say that you are Christian and trick them into signing
00:48:03
SPEAKER_00the paperwork and feel free to divorce and take half his stuff later. Easy game. Karina, thank you, Christine. Christine,
00:48:14
Savannah Craven-Entalthat's funny. No, we're not going to do that. Yeah, my husband I mean I I said to my husband because I mean he's going out there with me as well. He's my cameraman. He saw everything that went down when I got attacked. And I I asked
00:48:27
Savannah Craven-Entalhim, I was like, you know, are you just going out there with me and recording me because you support me and you you're like loving what I'm doing or do you really feel called to do this because I
00:48:38
Savannah Craven-Entaldon't want you to just feel upset every time we go out and just like nervous? And he told me, "No, I'm actually starting to feel like called to doing this." Which is like my dream. I'm so glad that he is feeling called to speak out against the pre-born and against,
00:48:51
Savannah Craven-Entalyou know, the gender ideology stuff that's going on in our country and just the attack on children in general because it it's a lot. It's like I said, it's not always fun. So, I'm glad that he supports me in that.
00:49:02
Savannah Craven-EntalBut again, if you know, I was asking him that that question because I was like, if this is making you upset for me to do and it's stressing you out, like tell Wait a second. Your h your husband saw
00:49:13
Savannah Craven-Entalthis and that woman who hit you still has her hands Right. Yeah. So, I mean, if you can watch the video, like you see him like go after her and you know, obviously he's not going to put his
00:49:25
Savannah Craven-Entalhands on a woman cuz in the western world that doesn't go very well, even if she's even if you're in the right, you know, she's in the wrong. And so, my husband reacted to the situation better than I think anybody could have because
00:49:36
Savannah Craven-Entalof course there was just so much builtup anger and rage. The woman was a lot bigger than me and a lot bigger than him as well. And my husband goes to the gym every single day. Like has huge muscles. Are you sure? Are you sure it wasn't a
00:49:47
Savannah Craven-Entalman? Well, she did say, "Suck my dick." Like as she was walking away. I thought I should. And then somebody somebody called her Brian Rivers the other day. Her name is Briana Rivers. And I'm like,
00:50:00
Savannah Craven-Entalhm, maybe something's starting to add up. But yeah, I feel like the the suck my dick is just like a Bronx saying. That's just like what the Bronx common thing for girls to say. As soon as you
00:50:11
Brian Atlasexplain the situation, it's all right. Uh, okay. Lucas, he sent this one in. I read it earlier. He continued, "Regated to weakened dad since men are still the primary
00:50:22
Brian Atlasbreadwinners. Men forfeit 50% of their h hard-earned wealth. It's unfortunate, but a secular marriage contract is easier to break than a cell phone contract, and women are incentivized to
00:50:35
Brian Atlaspursue divor divorce." Oh, he's got another continued. You got another continued. Thank you, Lucas. That this is the original if anybody uh missed
00:50:44
Brian Atlasit. He'd said 80% of divorces are initiated by women. Lucas, appreciated that. I Oh, there it is. For rather capricious reasons, ironically enough,
00:50:56
Brian Atlasmy skepticism of marriage today comes as a married man myself, albeit both devout Greek Orthodox. Wow, that was well well
00:51:06
Brian Atlaswritten, Lucas. Lucas. Uh, he's married himself, Lucas. And he's, uh, Aren't you a lawyer? You're a lawyer, right? Say, say, I want to know what he does cuz he does this often.
00:51:17
Brian AtlasYeah, I think he's an attorney and he's a handsome guy, right? Look at that. All right. Thank you, Lucas. Appreciate it. We have a message here from Desert Joe. He says, "The institution of
00:51:28
Brian Atlasmarriage for men in modernity is achin to jumping out of an airplane with a parachute that has a 50% chance of opening successfully and was packed by
00:51:38
Brian Atlassomeone you thought loved you." Damn. Oh my goodness. Who hurt you? Right. Uh, is there anybody here who doesn't want to get married?
00:51:49
Brian AtlasAnybody based? Okay. Yes, you do. Anybody here who doesn't want kids? Me don't want kids. Don't want kids. Why
00:52:00
Lily (UCSB)is that? Because actually if you had if you have a kid, you will have more responsibility for for for for them and
00:52:10
Lily (UCSB)you have the respons responsibility to educate them and help them to be a good
00:52:17
Lily (UCSB)guy. And uh if you're not or like we said before maybe
00:52:25
Lily (UCSB)divorce or doing something with your husband then they go bad express to your
00:52:33
Roxy (Beijing)kids. Yeah. Okay. And why for you? I certainly hold the idea that
00:52:41
Roxy (Beijing)um look after a baby is very
00:52:46
Roxy (Beijing)um hard. It's too hard for me and um I think I don't have uh enough time uh
00:52:56
Roxy (Beijing)money to uh um give give the baby um um best uh education or
00:53:07
Savannah Craven-Ental[Music] um something like that. Yeah. I have a follow-up question to your answers. Was it pushed on you guys being from China that having children was like a negative
00:53:20
Savannah Craven-Entalor that because I know that my husband's from India and everybody says you know have children but no more than two and like China's had the two child laws in the past is did your parents tell you
00:53:31
Lily (UCSB)that you know having kids is a big burden or like a big weight on you? Actually it's virus from people to people. Yes, cuz uh I know some of my classmates they they they have the dream
00:53:43
Lily (UCSB)they hold the dream to be in the marriage and have a kid. But uh you know there's it's just something some people
00:53:53
Lily (UCSB)like me and also my mom tell me that he uh she told me that uh I'm lucky to have you but actually you have to have a baby
00:54:04
Lily (UCSB)or being in a marriage with yourself cuz you are the best hat of yourself. Yeah. Mhm. What about you? Did your parents tell you that having kids was going to be
00:54:17
Roxy (Beijing)hard or? Not really. Um because I think [Music]
00:54:25
Roxy (Beijing)um education in China China uh is really hard. Uh as for me um my uh
00:54:34
Roxy (Beijing)undergraduate university is not very famous. But uh I used to uh spend my
00:54:42
Roxy (Beijing)um spent three years uh to uh how to say uh Chinese goal. Uh I
00:54:52
Roxy (Beijing)think it's really really hard. Uh I don't think I I can give my baby um um
00:55:00
Roxy (Beijing)best education and I don't want uh see my baby um