2 RAGE QUITS?! Andrew Wilson! MANSPLAINING?! Social Justice Girl HEATED DEBATE! | Dating Talk #173
Date: 2024-06-26
Duration: 7h 43m
Guests
Brian AtlasIdentified Speakers
SPEAKER_01TTS(audience)
SPEAKER_02Maddie(audience)
SPEAKER_03Nick(audience)
SPEAKER_04Mia Huffman(guest)
SPEAKER_05Izzy / Avery(guest)
SPEAKER_06Sheena Ray(guest)
SPEAKER_07Andrew Wilson(guest)
SPEAKER_08Anna Bochenko(guest)
SPEAKER_09Brian Atlas(host)
SPEAKER_11Michaela(guest)
SPEAKER_13Lizette(guest)
SPEAKER_14Shai(guest)
Key Moments
00:04:06
QuoteIzzy (Coco) recognized as original Whatever Podcast episode 1 guest (two-year anniversary).
“she's an OG Coco here was on our first ever uh whatever episode”
00:21:03
IntroAndrew Wilson introduces himself as host of The Crucible.
“my name is Andrew Wilson I'm the host of The Crucible it's the fastest growing debate channel on the internet”
00:46:09
QuoteShai reveals she has a roster of 30 men and rotates 4-5 per week.
“my roster is about 30 men... I rotate between four to 5 a week”
02:03:00
ControversyBrian threatens to kick Shai off show after she admits she wasn't listening to the AI girlfriends question.
“if we have to repat one more question to you and you're not listening I'm just going to kick you off the show”
02:22:27
ControversyShai and Imogen (both AU OnlyFans) walk off set at ~2:22-2:27.
“they just walked off the set without any justification or for any reason whatsoever”
02:25:36
Key MomentBrian publicly reprimands Andrew Wilson for repeatedly raising sexual abuse topic after being told not to before show.
“I'm getting upset because I've told you multiple times avoid it”
03:38:36
Key MomentLizette walks back mansplaining accusation on camera after Brian's questioning exposes she cannot cite a specific incident.
“honestly no I can't... I want to take that back... it wasn't necessarily the mansplaining”
04:44:06
ControversyMichaela states promiscuous women/OnlyFans creators will struggle to find true love — directed at Mia.
“99% of these girls will never find happiness in life... promiscuous women will never find true love”
04:51:00
QuoteMia reveals she filmed boy-girl OnlyFans content with prior 3-year partner who she expected to marry, and started OnlyFans to support her separated parents.
“I filmed boy girl for a short period of time with my partner of a long term we expected marriage”
05:30:00
QuoteBrian explains why women overestimate their looks: sexual access to attractive men skews self-perception vs. actual relationship market value.
“the difference is is like women will get some degree of attention from men who are more attractive than you... you get rejected on the back end”
05:53:26
Key MomentAndrew logically demonstrates a guest cannot simultaneously self-rate 9, rate neighbor 9, and claim she would not lie about looks out of kindness.
“there's no possible way that you can rate yourself the prettiest girl at the table and then rate the girl next to you as pretty as you are”
Topics Discussed
00:00:00
Guest Introductions
Guests introduce name, age, location, occupation. Brian gives show announcements.
00:21:03
Relationship Status Round
Guests share current relationship status, longest relationship, recent dating activity.
00:34:36
Dating Apps / Serial Dating
Discussion on dating app culture, free meal dynamics, and transactional dating.
00:47:06
AI Girlfriends / Sex Robots
Discussion on AI girlfriends and sex robots — whether women feel threatened, societal implications.
01:23:00
Marriage Debate
Extended debate: should men get married? Andrew, Brian, and guests argue pros/cons of marriage vs. long-term relationships.
02:22:27
First Rage Quit (AU Girls)
Shai and Imogen walk off show after sexual abuse topic raised by Sheena against Brian's instructions.
02:27:00
Cheating / Forgiveness Debate
Debate on whether infidelity can be forgiven in marriage; different standards for male vs female cheating.
02:41:40
Virginity / Body Count Stories
Multiple guests share experiences with virginity, first relationships, and body count.
03:06:15
Mansplaining / Social Justice Debate
Lizette discusses co-founding Women in Business UCSB. Debate on mansplaining accusation (walked back). Feminism waves.
03:46:40
Equity vs. Equality / Selective Service
Andrew and Lizette debate whether men should get double votes due to draft obligation. Equity vs. equality.
04:16:00
Age Gap Relationships
Guests discuss preferences for older/younger partners. Michaela and Sheena discuss their own age-gap experiences.
04:20:26
What Guests Bring to Relationships
Going around the table: what each woman brings to a relationship.
04:45:00
OnlyFans / Promiscuity Debate
Michaela argues promiscuous women/OF creators rarely find true love. Mia responds with her own OnlyFans story.
05:30:00
Physical Appearance / Ratings
Ratings round: guests rate themselves and each other. Andrew analyzes honesty/deception in female self-ratings.
05:30:00
Women's Self-Overestimation
Brian explains why women overestimate their physical attractiveness due to asymmetric sexual access to attractive men.
06:13:40
Type / Partner Preferences
Each guest and Brian shares physical and personality preferences in a partner.
07:17:21
Penis Size Debate
Guests guess average penis size; show measures against average.
Transcript
Page 4 of 9
02:49:33
Lizettethe I mean how would a guy have all his ducks in around again it's very situational i' look for someone to yeah inspire me like it's hard I kind of get
02:49:44
Lizettethat like it like pushing me to do better Jim is one of those things grinding he's hitting the gym every single day girl I take you to will you
02:49:54
Lizettesomeone but yeah just someone who will inspire me to just be a little better do a little better someone to build with mm someone to build with and again I'd hope that I that they saw things in me that
02:50:06
Brian Atlasalso inspired so I have a question for you on this so you said you'd want a guy who like he's really heavy into the gym and that that would get you no it was just like one of the you know things
02:50:16
Lizettethat I might be inspired by dang this really takes care of their body like like you do now I'm going to be more um like you'll start going to the gym uh well I I go to the gym a few times but
02:50:28
Lizettelike eating like really healthy all the time it might then inspire me to take more of a you know again very like good habits yeah good habits just someone
02:50:38
Sheena Raythat has good habits that I might be inspired to also pick up okay similar interest me I don't know if I necessarily bring something different or special or better than any other woman the only
02:50:51
Sheena Raything I want if I have a relationship is to find my king so I would love him and do everything that I can to make him happy and I naturally going to fall into the happiness because it makes me happy
02:51:02
Nickto make my man happy I thought you said Kink at first king I was like I thought you said Kink I would it's my King King
02:51:11
Sheena RayKing yeah I just want to have my king you know every I mean I dated uh not a lot of men in my life I was in relationship for 12 years and my husband was my king unfortunately I didn't want
02:51:24
Michaelato get divorced but it happened I didn't initiated though I'm great in the kitchen me too um I bring support to
02:51:36
Michaelawhatever his dreams are um whatever he needs to help make them happen and yeah pretty much
02:51:46
Anna Bochenkothat uh I definitely try to be a better wife constantly and constantly grow uh on their way of bringing peace into my husband's life
02:51:58
Anna Bochenkoand actually it is I mean it's constant growth of course um but that's something I'm actually teaching my female clients who I'm working with as a Matchmaker it
02:52:09
Anna Bochenkois important to know how to bring peace in men's life and it does require quite a bit of skills and understanding and love in the most
02:52:20
Michaelaimportant man need peace of course you can read this one Michaela oen donated 100 lady in red is Michaela
02:52:29
Brian Atlasdashon on YouTube sub for more common sense and living thank you oen thank you all right thank you for that uh okay so let me get into some of my other
02:52:39
Brian Atlaspre-show notes uh so going back to Coco here so you were on our very first episode two years ago uh and you told us your story
02:52:50
TTSof my first boyfriend ever yeah can we hear that story okay oh hold on just a sec negative2 200 donated
02:52:59
TTS$200 I bring a sense of vibrations and cosmic alignment in our journey together inspired by Celestial orbits and the wisdom of a king I offer the gift that
02:53:10
Andrew Wilsonkeeps on giving Which is oh negative it's all about self-actualization man and like the
02:53:19
Andrew Wilsoninterpersonal connection and Dynamics bro you know how it is dude we got to go on our journey of self-discovery which usually involves tons of sexually promiscuous activity
02:53:32
TTSwhen you're on that journey I noticed for a lot of women that is the Pagan donated $200 I already know the reasons but could Andrew please explain to the panel why most women can't engage in
02:53:44
TTShypotheticals without outliners or feelings panel please don't interrupt his explanation before we get to that Andrew uh going back to the previous
02:53:55
Brian Atlaschat on when I used to be on dating apps a lot of women would be like take me on an adventure take me on a journey take not Journey they would say Adventure
02:54:06
Brian AtlasSpiritual Awakening take me on like they oh I want to go on an adventure take me on an adventure they put in their prompts on their dating app Tinder Bumble hinge and I'm thinking to myself
02:54:16
Brian AtlasI'm like the craziest Adventure you've ever been on is in the backseat of a guy's Mazda Miata in behind the 7-Eleven like that's the that's your
02:54:27
Mia Huffmanthat's your adventure oh gosh like adventure time are you going to replicate that Adventure or huh would you replicate that Adventure I understand the question
02:54:41
Brian Atlaswell would you would you do that all over then again for that woman from all those girl you do that for her as well go on that adventure with them I'm not
02:54:51
Brian Atlasbig on the doing things in the car yeah it's not really my thing it's not a it's not it's not my preferred venue it's just I have a bed and a I have a bed I
02:55:01
Andrew Wilsonfeel like that's a very immature thing to do just like hook up in a car yeah uh Andrew do do you want to explain this whole hypothetical one uh well not every woman has trouble
02:55:14
Andrew Wilsonuh engaging in hypotheticals many of them do and it it's just just this is a seeming right I can't I can't demonstrate this and it's not like sociologists who are mostly women are ever going to do studies about it
02:55:25
Andrew Wilsonwithout kissing women's asses but it seems to me that what I see is that women will take what you say in a hypothetical and immediately apply apply
02:55:34
Andrew Wilsonit to them let me give you an example okay I say most women like tall men you go but I don't like tall men well what the does that have to do with the
02:55:43
Andrew Wilsonfact that most women do right that's the problem and many of you when I said that actually probably thought well but I don't care about tall men that's why women have trouble uh engaging in
02:55:56
Andrew Wilsonhypotheticals they they take it back to self what do I think what is it that I think what about me though me me me me me me me me me me and um we're not really talking about you we're talking
02:56:08
Andrew Wilsonin a general sense about something that could potentially be true but women have trouble inserting themsel outside of a potential so so essentially every has to
02:56:19
Andrew Wilsonexist inside of the space of me and nothing can exist inside of the space of a potential that's not you right so everything that's potential has to include you now I don't mean you
02:56:30
Brian Atlasspecifically you I'm just saying women right in general that's that's why that's why I think that that eors we have a chat here from Tim I'm a single parent and dating
02:56:42
Brian Atlasfeels so complicated how can I find someone who will be kind and caring towards me and my son a a well you might
02:56:50
Sheena Rayhave success uh dating another single parent true that could be an option I would not recommend you to go with a woman that doesn't have kids cuz she simply won't understand what you're
02:57:03
Izzy / Averygoing through and she want have compassion for your kid like a woman that already have a kid or two I would recommend going out in public with your son actually to like places that you enjoy whether it be the playground his
02:57:16
Izzy / Averyfavorite playground whether it be the beach like hobbies that you genuinely enjoy because you'll find the right person there who enjoys the same things that you enjoy and I think that's a huge part of
02:57:26
Izzy / Averylife all right um go so going back to your story uh if you want to tell it sure why not what do I have to lose um so I was in a relationship with a guy
02:57:37
Izzy / Averywho I no longer talk to and we were dating I don't consider it like really dating because we were young but it was for 3 years it was like my first love I
02:57:47
Izzy / Averydon't think think I've really ever been in love but I just say that and um after we were together for 3 years like huge emotional thing like I was young I
02:57:59
Izzy / Averythought he was my best friend whatever and then the minute that he got what most men want he left me the week after wow what did he get sex what what what
02:58:10
Sheena Raywhat have all men really want wait how long was that time period I don't how long you how long you gave him sex for after how long do you gave him sex yeah well we were young we were kids it took
02:58:23
Michaelalike oh a week after we did it he broke up with me give the cookie for a few months how long did you know him before you started give that cookie how long did I know him kindergarten okay so you
02:58:34
Michaeladid have a long background with that's just an unfortunate situation yeah that's just unfortunate you know sometimes that just stuff just happens you know it's yeah it's all part of the journey no that's not what I said not even close no sometimes people do stuff
02:58:47
Michaelalike that you just have to life is not perfect and people just do stuff and you just have to sometimes be in pain and move on and it just sucks but that's the reality oh I've moved on yeah don't get me wrong right I mean we
02:58:58
Sheena Raythey asked you to bring it up yeah no but it's better not to to have SE that's why it's better not to have sex early you know it's she waited a few years she was saying yeah I waited three years for
02:59:09
Izzy / Averyhim for him he waited for me Oh I thought you said it was on my terms I'm the one with the yeah the coochie the G oh my God it sounds horrible wait so
02:59:20
Andrew Wilsonokay you were dating him for 3 years if I recall correct so he so so wait he went on the journey he went on the long journey the long arduous journey to
02:59:30
Andrew Wilsonfinally get in your pants and then when he finally did he completed his quest right and he took out he got out of the King's Castle he slayed the dragon and he had The Treasure of the booty right
02:59:42
Nickhe took it with him period and then and then he and then he he dumped you he didn't take the booty booty with him he he left the booty he well no no no he took the most
02:59:54
Andrew Wilsonvaluable type of booty possible right that's really sweet of you to say he took the he took the card most valuable yeah I guess but did you Le from that experience so so he got so he got the
03:00:06
Andrew Wilsontreasure and so it was really about his journey right he was that was him just so took his treasure too he was self actualizing leave the guy alone he was you know he's self-actualizing out here
03:00:17
Sheena RayI don't judge him we were kids yeah yeah but did you learn from that experience what not to do next time sure what did you learn I'm curious um not to wa 3
03:00:29
Izzy / Averyyears yeah not to wa three years not what not what the opposite the fact I mean I've learned a lot of things since then I can't just say one thing
03:00:37
Izzy / Averythat I've learned but no from that specific experience from that specific experience I don't know I mean everything happens for a reason the the
03:00:49
Brian Atlaslesson is not to have sex at all until you in really committed relationship hold on are she's repeated herself two or three times she was dating him for 3
03:00:59
Izzy / Averyyears but she said after a week didn't you tell me after after a week after did it he left me as a child who had just lost the most valuable booty he left me
03:01:10
Brian Atlassorry I didn't understand I thought you said after a week that you met with we need a pirate song on the stream deck
03:01:19
Andrew Wilsonhere uh rip yo Rip's in the chat for Coco that's uh pretty my L shitty situation we need a shanty we need like
03:01:29
Andrew Wilsona ship Shanty to play right now I'm waiting I don't know what's like that typical pirate theme
03:01:38
Andrew Wilsonum no wait that's I just think of the PIR no that's not a pirate them that's from that's from Pirates of the Caribbean that's not a real pirate theme p is my
03:01:53
Izzy / Averyhe dumped
03:01:58
Andrew Wilsonafter they were together years for sure start the v card then he dumped her then he ran
03:02:12
Nickout that's what I learned from that relationship P great we can make it into a banger song now have you T like so okay he broke up with
03:02:23
Izzy / Averyyou did he like what as far as the breakup goes was it like a ghost or did was there a sit down it was a little messy um we definitely like I tried to talk to him after the fact and like went over to his house and like he had his
03:02:36
Izzy / Averylike best friend there and it was like that middle school or High School drama and you know it was like uh yeah I don't think we're going to get back together but like thanks for coming by you know
03:02:46
Nickhe he broke your virginity can I ask yeah oh my God broke it we say he took that's an interesting
03:02:56
Anna Bochenkodismantled okay but you know behind every action there is always uh the reason yeah there is a root to I don't doubt that uh so to understand the roote where this is actually coming from he
03:03:08
Mia Huffmancould have been gay that he probably found out maybe some self actualization right there he found out I mean he's beenen just maybe he's like there was some self-actualization all
03:03:20
Izzy / Averyright no he could have just a player he could have just been like actually he's just a player he you guys I think you guys are being women in this sense where you're overanalyzing it yeah it's not
03:03:31
Andrew Wilsonthat deep it's not that he got it and he I'm not sure that there's any over analization at all I think that what you're experiencing is self deconstruct
03:03:40
Brian Atlasisation instead of self-actualization hold on so hold on you boom you claim that he's a player you're so proud of yourself how often you but you guys were dating for 3 years
03:03:53
Brian Atlasso like serious relationship how long were you guys uh I don't think we were old enough to be serious no but how often would you would you guys see each other and hang out oh God like multiple times a week like almost every day at
03:04:04
Izzy / Averyschool like was he weekends we would spend hours together like days was he involved with other women no okay so how could like the most shy kid I had ever
03:04:16
Izzy / Averyknown and I'm Sor he's not a player then no but I made him into one probably so no but a player doesn't like a player isn't waiting 3 years for until he
03:04:26
Izzy / Averyget maybe in the back maybe when he's 15 he does right I'm sorry no until he was a player but then maybe I gave him the confidence I'm stting he maybe was maybe
03:04:38
Brian AtlasI gave him the confidence to literally go out and get C I'm sorry it's cope c c um I like it's cold it's definitely what if he got
03:04:49
Anna Bochenkoreally scared that he maybe hurt you plasma B like hurt her to do that God MTH you know that she was describing the messy she the
03:05:01
Anna Bochenkomy God oh my God I have more of blood than than women are that's why we are giving the child birth not you guys
03:05:12
Mia Huffmanexactly that is exactly what he's worried about I think the pain that he caused I think you you py you love saying
03:05:25
Anna Bochenkothat and he is very deep person maybe he was and he was like oh my God I heard this precious thing and is it like a
03:05:35
Izzy / Averytree trunk I think he went too deep it was small is so it wasn't he didn't hurt the but he hurt some I don't know he give us his name well I mean I guess it did hurt because it's your first time
03:05:46
Brian Atlasit's going to hurt yeah okay wait so hold on hold on okay questions mhm you went over to have the breakup conversation his friend was there what what was the content of the breakup
03:05:58
Izzy / Averyconversation um probably just like a lot of tears and like did this happened did that happen like I don't know just like a lot of things that I feel like were just brushed under the rug or something like in past like I feel like when you
03:06:11
Brian Atlasbreak up with someone like you sort of bring up other things all the other yeah like it's been it was years that we were together so it makes sense wait who kind of was like was he pushing to have
03:06:21
Izzy / Averysex or was it you no uh I actually don't even remember like prom like one of these kind no it was just like random
03:06:30
Izzy / AveryTuesday February yeah like or what random his friends were literally there W you guys wait hold on
03:06:40
Andrew Wilsonwhat the hold on in the room no not in the room not in the room this okay this this took quite the turn wait wait what happened now wait wait what what what
03:06:51
Izzy / Averydid I miss um so it happened in his aunt's bedroom oh my God and his friends were just outside of the room what it sounds like a a
03:07:02
Sheena Raya listening I don't know what they were doing they were outside the room oh maybe he announced that he's going to take your virgin I mean yall are weird if y'all are watching this was
03:07:12
Sheena Raywas it like a party no just it's your story how could they be the weird ones two friends outside that were his guy friends so why did you consent to have sex when people waiting outside like
03:07:23
Sheena Rayit's a show it's not a clearly that says something about my style honey so um it's like they waiting to be next in line like what is
03:07:35
Anna Bochenkothis Jesus Christ I'm pretty certain that the reason of breakup was not just uh because he got what he was working for for 3 years I mean that is a was
03:07:46
Izzy / Averyalready thinking about was like oh at least before I break up with her I should try to there you go I think I actually think she's on to something maybe he thought about it like not in a surprising way like I think you're on so
03:07:58
Andrew Wilsonall of this stuff guy invested three years right he's the getting the him and his friends were
03:08:06
Brian Atlaswaiting imagine how long did it last 2 seconds a minute or less probably damn three years that's a lot of time
03:08:16
Sheena Rayfor that's lots of that's a lot of effort she waiting for the steak she got the bagel he did he uh use a condom yes oh
03:08:28
Izzy / Averygo one minute of condom sex god did it fit oh my God oh my God I remember I remember him like not being able to like put it on correctly or like had it inside out or like something
03:08:41
Izzy / Averysmall yeah like oh my God no it took like longer than the sex to get the condom on no there's no way he's a player it took so long I will never forget that condom
03:08:51
Izzy / Averyseriously oh my God this feels good Andre feels great damn that's crazy status is boy probably so I don't honestly honestly I think it's
03:09:04
Andrew Wilsonmore an ly it's a race and he finished first you know you giv this guy a lot of it's a race and he more an L for him it's more an L for him oh my God this is
03:09:13
Brian Atlasgreat he put in three years of work three years of work for one minute of Virgin condom sex that's what he said he's the race he finished first I'm sorry maybe he was really embarrassed
03:09:25
Brian AtlasI'm just anyway I'm not saying you did anything wrong I'm just like this guy a lot of time he got busted that's a lot of time he got busted for one minute
03:09:37
Izzy / Averyimagine how desperate barriered the was well there's a barri there's a barrier there's a but how is he like supposed to know the difference of the feeling if he's a virgin and never had sex before exactly doesn't
03:09:49
Izzy / Averymatter still you're just supposed to know you're just supposed to know my go all right any more questions uh yeah so
03:09:58
Brian Atlasum tell us how you really feel about what no so okay we're joking wait so okay H jeez this is so have you had
03:10:10
Brian AtlasCommunications with him like further there's the there's the initial breakup conversation but did it ever like I'm sure grinded your gears like why what's the reason like you know like why do I
03:10:21
Anna Bochenkothink that did you ever get closure from this or not really um not in the way that I deserved no after a while you just get over it
03:10:32
Izzy / Averyand he was too scared to share the real what was going on in his heart I don't know I guess I sort of just gave him the benefit of the doubt cuz he was just like a really shy kid and I was like you know what like I
03:10:44
Sheena Raycan't force him to speak about stuff that he doesn't want to talk about of the day do you feel that you may be emasculated him in some way just I hope we make it we made it to a therapy
03:10:55
Brian Atlassession of like yeah okay all right interesting definitely interesting I think the lesson here is
03:11:07
Brian Atlasuh there is no lesson that's just terrible there's no everything's awful everything's awful there is no lesson to be learned people are Terri
03:11:17
Brian Atlasgood times but I do think he took the bigger L than you than you you finished race first shouldn't be a competition but like it I guess it would have been
03:11:29
Brian Atlaslike is it would it would it have been worse if you guys had only been dating for like two weeks and then he takes your virginity or is it worse that it was
03:11:39
Izzy / Averylike a threeyear like what I worse that it was a threeyear as a woman because you get attached very easily yeah and it's like 2 weeks
03:11:49
Izzy / Averyof being attached is not at all near the same as being attached for 3 years yeah okay good times now last time we had talked actually you know what I'll come
03:12:00
Brian Atlasback to some of the notes for you so earlier in the conversation going back to you you had mentioned So you you're studying poverty inequality social
03:12:10
Brian Atlasjustice that's your minor um you also mentioned the word mansplained what does that mean yeah so what is mansplaining honestly I
03:12:22
Lizettedon't um oh sorry into the mic um so I don't necessarily think it was just
03:12:31
Lizettethe um I guess the man splaining it was more so just economics um a majority of the students that are enrolled in the
03:12:41
Lizetteprogram are men so when we went into these clubs we were just it was typically dominated by males as well um
03:12:52
Lizetteand then some of the mansplaining I guess came from I guess the finance people where they kind of what talk to us like we didn't have a clue as to what
03:13:03
Lizettewas going on so and wait you they were finance and your economics business uh no EC it was just like again the way that they I don't know might have but were they in a
03:13:15
Lizettedifferent major than you no it was just I mean economics is closely related to finance so there were I don't know again this is just
03:13:24
Brian Atlasconversations that we maybe they were like had a better grasp on I don't know that you didn't provide enough maybe I we just felt as though we weren't in a
03:13:35
Lizettespace where we were feeling as though we were necessarily uplifted what does that mean to be uplifted in a
03:13:44
Lizettespace uh I think because a majority uh were men we just felt like we were looked down upon for being women in those spaces you felt like you were
03:13:55
Brian Atlaslooked down upon because you're women so what I mean can you articulate something that actually occurred that would lead you to believe that was the case
03:14:06
Lizetteum honestly no I can't I can't say honestly so you just felt it no uh uh I want to go back to the it was wanting to
03:14:17
Lizettejust be in a collaborative space with other women um the department here at UCSB makes it very much um you want the person next to you failing so that they
03:14:29
Lizettedon't mess up the class curve so it's just a lot of I don't know I guess competition and there wasn't really a space in which we felt um as
03:14:40
Lizettethough we are wanting to or I don't know there's no really like I want you to thrive as well it was I don't want want you to do well on this exam or because you might mess up the curve it was just
03:14:51
Lizetteit was just a lot of competitiveness did you receive that competition from women um when it was in a space with women it was more so of
03:15:02
Lizettea collaborative environment whereas when we were with them we felt like we couldn't really collaborate it wasn't necessarily the mansplaining honestly sorry I want to take that back it wasn't
03:15:15
Lizettenecessarily the mansplaining so much is they weren't really talking to us at all kind of pushed us to the side that's like well but so had they been in this
03:15:25
Brian Atlasit was a club right you said it was a group or a club mhm a school club mhm had they been in had you were you guys uh new to the
03:15:35
Brian Atlasclub uh yes so they had already been this club had been pre-existing I don't know some had well were you there at the the date of the
03:15:46
Brian Atlasformation of the club CL no okay and was the club where there was it predominated by men yes and they had
03:15:56
Brian Atlashow long had the club been going on um probably a decade okay so how many times did you go
03:16:06
Lizetteto the club meetings um probably myself like four four times okay how many how often would they meet um at least once
03:16:17
Lizetteevery other week so two times a month yes okay well and how so there's there's like other like and did did you start
03:16:28
Brian Atlasgoing like at the beginning of the year or like Midway into the semester at the beginning of the year beginning of the year but the people already knew each
03:16:35
Brian Atlasother in the club um some did some some didn't some didn't but you felt you were excluded if I understand correctly I
03:16:46
Lizettedon't want to necessarily say I did it was just I co-founded it so I didn't start it myself it was just a hold on there was an original club that was open
03:16:57
TTSto both men and women mhm but then you weren't satisfied you felt like Ulus is the Pagan donated $200 mansplain isn't a thing all people
03:17:10
TTSdo it to other people I've been watching this podcast for months and many times seen women on the panel do it I think what she means is it not just a man
03:17:20
Lizettething uh yo Ulisses the Pagan thank you man appreciate it um I I honestly also think that it was just the the club
03:17:29
Lizetteitself was again accounting and finance and there's an accounting and economics major and those are most of the students um and then there's just economics oh so
03:17:40
Lizettethey did have a different discipline um yes okay and you felt that they were mansplain no sorry I take that back okay you take that back it was just more necessarily
03:17:51
Brian Atlasum again a a different discipline I want to go back on that um but you said you felt as if you were excluded because or like not involved as much because I couldn't I couldn't necessarily be
03:18:03
Brian Atlasbecause that wasn't my discipline oh but you made it seem but you went on to uh co-found a women in Business Club
03:18:14
Brian Atlasfor women it sounds to me like you're saying that the you felt like they were not giving you enough uh attention or involvement in the club because you were
03:18:28
Lizettewomen do I have that right yes okay so a majority of the people in the club though as well were
03:18:38
Brian Atlasmen there were very few women in the club sure but so I mean could it just be that you were
03:18:46
Brian Atlasnewcom to the club and that's why you weren't as involved as like why how do you come to the conclusion that it was because you were women and not because
03:18:57
Lizetteyou're were just newcomers I'm I did I don't want to say that it was because I was a
03:19:05
Lizettewoman but I isn't that what you were getting at um if I if if that was what it sounded like I was getting said you walked back to mansplaining claim
03:19:17
Lizettebut then you also said that well I I don't want to put words in your mouth what yeah so what I again wanted to say or what I've mentioned before it was a different discipline it was a club
03:19:27
Lizettedominated by males so we felt as though we couldn't really not necessarily interact with them but it was just it was just different we wanted to interact with other women as well we wanted to
03:19:40
Lizettemeet other women as well who had maybe similar interests um that weren't geared so much towards finance and only finance and did this um mostly male Club
03:19:51
Lizettecontinue to exist after you started your Club yes okay and they existed independent from your club yeah they're independent we we collaborate with them
03:20:01
Lizetteso um as well so we we have yeah we have things with them as well kind of to do some of that mixing as well guys get would you have been upset at all if they
03:20:12
Brian Atlashad a men's only space that was just for them no no okay okay so walking back the mansplaining thing
03:20:22
Brian Atlasthen what what oh I mean you said you used the wrong word or something so you're walking back the I guess the mansplaining accusation or whatever um
03:20:32
Lizetteit was it was more so just again wasn't really a collaborative space with women it was just a ton of a ton of men and when you're in a field I don't know
03:20:42
Lizettedominated particularly by men um we wanted to meet other girls other girles that were that had similar interest to us in the economic department but not only in The Economic Department um
03:20:54
Lizettewanted to bring in other girls as well from various departments the TMP program um again it was just very much wanting a collaborative area um where we could bring different fields and not just
03:21:06
Brian Atlasaccounting and finance um get a bigger scope I guess if that makes sense okay all right um I was just curious about that uh I am also a little bit curious about the whole poverty
03:21:19
Brian Atlasinequality Social Justice minor um is that uh does that involve like any like actually just going around the table who here considers themselves
03:21:29
Izzy / Averya feminist very partial feminist partial feminist I'm not that I guess what do you mean I'm not for which way or
03:21:40
Lizetteanother I don't know you're just kind of neutral on it I guess um like what would your exact definition be of that then well yeah people do have different definitions there's yeah or CU I
03:21:53
Lizettedefinitely would be on the partial side with the different waves of feminism and I think it was also mentioned um maybe by you and how women have kind of there the radical and then there's the
03:22:04
Andrew Wilsondifferent waves and all these things so if you have a let me I I I I just wonder um if you could just briefly kind of explain when you're talking about cuz I
03:22:14
Andrew Wilsonhear this a lot um I I don't like this wave versus this wave what is it about fourth wve feminist or third wave feminism you don't like but that you but
03:22:24
Andrew Wilsonyou do like first or second wave feminism can I explain it yeah um okay no no no no no not you you'd be woman's play I'm asking her she made the point
03:22:33
Lizetteoh sorry sorry okay go ahead are you tying are you tying me yeah um so particularly I don't know um more recently with issues concerning lgbtq
03:22:46
Lizetterights there's just some things that I don't necessarily agree with as far as um them being able to
03:22:54
Lizetteparticipate um uh in sports with us and compete against us um which I think is something that the so you're you're kind of on the turf
03:23:06
Andrew Wilsonside on the what do you mean the turf side Turf yeah trans exclusionary radical feminist uh yes no not on not not a r IAL well I mean that's what it is if you
03:23:19
Andrew Wilsonbelieve in all of the things about feminism that that you like except this one thing which is that you believe that uh the te's are going into sports right
03:23:30
Andrew Wilsonthen that would be considered trans exclusionary radical feminism or turf for short but let's just say not radicalism let's just say te then transclusion feminism changed I think I
03:23:40
Lizettelike before was more of a of again wanting the ability to vote wanting to the ability to I mean for a really long time women couldn't work in
03:23:52
Andrew Wilsoncertain industries as well so yeah but I don't understand what the problem is if you want the right for women to vote and then women vote so that men can go into women's sports what's your actual
03:24:02
Andrew Wilsonobjection to that wait say it again sorry if so if women are demanding the right to vote and they get it and then they vote so that men can go into women's sports
03:24:13
Andrew Wilsonwhat's your objection to that I mean I think we've now voted as well that men can't yeah but if they did vote that men can what would be your objection to that
03:24:24
Andrew WilsonI couldn't really have it give you yeah you couldn't have one right yeah so then so then as long as women who are at thus far they have not voted against that they voted for it everywhere it's been
03:24:36
Andrew Wilsontried they're not exclusionary in that sense um they vote for it far more than men do in fact uh to allow that particular group to come into women's sports so but isn't that really kind of
03:24:49
Andrew Wilsonthe fault of women then isn't that women who got the right to vote then voting to allow this to happen seems like you're kind of Your Own Worst Enemy there
03:25:01
Lizetteum I yeah I mean you have a yeah you have a point there I can't argue with you there I mean that but again I it's
03:25:10
Lizettealso men coming into spaces and wanting to compete with women as well so it's also just so what you voted for it right
03:25:20
Andrew Wilsonit's like imagine saying yeah I want the right to vote and then you get it and then you vote to allow men in sports and you go I don't want men in sports like that it makes no sense it's irrational
03:25:32
Andrew Wilsonto me what I not saying you personally I'm just saying that if you vote that the collective of of women can vote and that's what they vote for isn't that kind of just what the doctor
03:25:43
Lizetteordered yeah but then the counter to that would then again be what we shouldn't have the ability to vote well I think you said it not me I mean that
03:25:55
Andrew Wilsonmight be a conclusion that I would come to if if women suddenly demanded the right to vote and then voted that men could go in their Sports and hated the fact that men could go in their Sports
03:26:06
Lizetteseemed like making the greatest decisions when it comes to voting we haven't voted that woman can and can't have we like on a no no no they they most just vote that they
03:26:18
Andrew Wilsoncan okay so so you're more so it's a hypothetical like if they if they no no they mostly vote that men can engage in their sports teams yeah they mostly they and and by the way most of the pro like
03:26:30
Sheena RayPride stuff and all that is most I guess the feminist feminists I have a question to you the extreme feminist I didn't understand sure where's I want to I want to understand what you said I didn't
03:26:41
Mia Huffmanunderstand what you said uh women voted that men can compete as woman can what can compete as wom oh my god really oh my God no therefore that is something that women
03:26:54
Sheena Rayhave voted for it it's a real man going and pretend to be woman it's an insult to me honestly can I can I say something small on that as a woman this type of
03:27:04
Sheena Rayfeminism it's not feminism it's literally women jeopardizing themselves because yeah it's insult to me as a woman that I have to go through period through babies through my whole life as
03:27:16
Sheena Raystruggle as a woman that a guy would come and pretend to be a woman so I pretend to be 20 I can pretend to be 20 what's the difference so again maybe not the right to vote if you want to turn it
03:27:26
Lizetteinto that but the ability to work the ability to go into different Industries um that has definitely changed over the course of yeah so so like so hang on so
03:27:37
Andrew Wilsonbacking up I just I just want to ask you just a couple more questions do you think that women vote more on the Republican or Democrat side Democrat probably not you not you hang
03:27:49
Andrew Wilsonon definitely the Democratic side I would say Democratic side and do you think that Republicans Or democrats pass
03:27:56
Andrew Wilsonpolicies more often that protect women's sports Republicans Republicans and so essentially we have established then
03:28:07
Andrew Wilsonthat women are voting in the party that does not protect women's sports right so it seems that by your logic I'm but I
03:28:17
Andrew Wilsondon't identify with the Democratic party what's that I don't identify what I'm not saying that I'm not but yeah I'm not saying you specifically I'm sorry when I say you in this case I'm just saying if
03:28:28
Andrew Wilsonmost women right so if the majority of women are voting Democrat and they they are right the majority of them vote Democrat it's not a huge majority but it's enough of a majority they vote Democrat it seems like they're the architect of their kind of own
03:28:42
Lizettedestruction here right no for sure uh I would Age so we can expect you to vote Republican this time around right I identify as an independent but that is
03:28:53
Andrew Wilsonlike my vote kind of being thrown in the trash so um so we're going Republican this time honestly over Biden we probably he's the he's one of
03:29:06
Andrew Wilsonthe worst hang on he's one of the worst when it comes to um the the women's in sports think I mean he just they got like I mean when so you're going to have to vote Republican this time right you
03:29:18
Lizettehave to have I mean have to Accord I mean I have to Independent yeah am I independent or yeah yeah you're an independent but you have to vote Republican this time otherwise you're
03:29:27
Andrew Wilsonjust throwing your vote away right so we can expect a vote from you for Donald J Trump this time around to protect your sports teams right
03:29:39
Sheena Rayamen so who's moving out who the independent candidate you're moving out of the US who's the independent candidate get elected I don't know really is RFK
03:29:50
Lizetteis he independent no I think he or did he go Democrat he's independent my God I'm just kidding he well obviously no he can't be Democrat cuz he's Biden's the incumbent regarding
03:30:02
Sheena Raythis topic when I when I get to this country at first and you know I realize what um feminists and all that like the differences I was like what what's going on with women they going against
03:30:15
Lizettethemselves they're like Je iing it for themselves I couldn't understand your logic yeah and honestly thinking back to like the first wave of feminism too Susan banthony huge people that we like
03:30:26
Lizettestudy and praise um it wasn't like they were rights for all women they were rights for white women so it wasn't until years later that well they were
03:30:38
Andrew Wilsonalso horrific anti-natalist and scumbags of all kinds especially Susan banthony very much anti-man quote after quote of her and this by the way is because she
03:30:49
Andrew Wilsonwas distinctly a hideous woman a hideous woman and often times this builds resentment in women and um and many of the early feminist plenty of men I can
03:31:00
Lizetteshow you posters ofite side though yeah no on the opposite side though there's plenty men um what's the what's the term
03:31:08
Lizettefor it like involuntary celibacy um it no one knows the term no I know I so yeah we there's definitely plenty
03:31:19
Brian Atlasinsoles as well that wait actually on so are you just just so I understand and I've got a couple questions on this um so are you
03:31:29
Lizettesaying that incels are kind of like the opposite of feminists no he just mentioned Susan banthony was but ugly so I was and that that's kind of one of the reasons why she well I did not say that
03:31:41
Andrew WilsonI said she was and I'll quote myself here hideous okay sorry so so ugly is not how I would describe her there's a step above ugly and then there's a step above that and
03:31:54
Andrew Wilsonthe step above that is hideous okay like like like circus freak ugly can you put a picture of her so I can I know I kind want not we're not going to do that I'm
03:32:06
Brian Atlascurious uh so I don't I stepped away for a moment but we were just asking if if you're a feminist I don't know if we got an answer from you did we get a definition well there's a couple so
03:32:16
Brian Atlasthere's the feminists that think what they're fighting for is equality and then you have the feminists that are in FA are women's advocacy and
03:32:28
Brian Atlasthen you have like one step above which is like conspiracy theory it's well it's the mainstream feminism but you have conspiracy theory
03:32:38
Brian Atlasand then also um like man-hating feminism yeah definitely not I mean advocacy for sure yeah but so then you're not in favor of equality
03:32:49
Brian Atlasthen well I don't know what you mean by advocacy well so advocacy so feminism and here's my position on feminism being the most charitable it's it's a woman's advocacy movement which is fine you can
03:33:00
Brian Atlasadvocate for women but you shouldn't masquerade it as this we want equality you don't want equality not you specifically but feminists don't actually want equality because if there
03:33:12
Brian Atlaswas some form of equality that did not stand to benefit women in some way but it would be a true equality between men and women
03:33:23
Brian Atlasfor example here's two examples so men are required yo stay safe thank you for the uh raid man hope you had a good stream thank you for the raid over there on
03:33:34
Brian AtlasTwitch we'll do sh actually really quick I'll get back to my point on kind of my senses of feminism Nick pull up twitch really quick guys drop us a follow in the prime sub over there on Twitch stay safe really appreciate the raid man
03:33:45
Brian Atlasthank you thank you uh drop us a follow guys and a prime sub thank you if you're coming over from stays safe stream we are going to talk about various World of Warcraft related dating topics so stay
03:33:56
Brian Atlastuned for that but first we got to get through this conversation on feminism Matt hope you had a very uh good stream man thank you once again so I think I was getting into the point so the two examples that I could provide here one
03:34:09
Brian Atlaswould be forced military conscription so we've had over a hundred years of women being able to vote uh the way men one of the reasons men originally got and it was a very short period of time that men
03:34:22
Brian Atlasexclusively had to had the right to vote and women didn't uh so men got the right to vote because they had to they had a corresponding responsibility they got a privilege or right and it came with a
03:34:33
Brian Atlasduty and a responsibility that is you have to go fight for your country if your country tells you women secured the right to vote without any corresponding responsibility at all you just got a
03:34:43
Brian Atlasbenefit without any corresponding Duty responsibility the second is uh oh wait hold on what's the second one I was going to say two uh the second one is
03:34:54
Lizettethe forc military conscription I'm blanking on it equality it's evading me in any case well on your point that I think or the question that you're going to ask
03:35:06
Brian Atlaswhich I'm guessing is do we support then women being drafted into well get to that I I do remember my second one and an actual a true equality a true equality between men and women would be
03:35:18
Brian Atlasand I'm not saying this is my position on this I'm not saying I'm in favor of it but an actual true equality between men and women would be for example men have zero Reproductive Rights a true equality between men and women would be
03:35:30
Brian Atlasto completely walk back any right to an abortion women have true I'm not saying that's my position but men don't have Reproductive Rights women do but you're actually right men can't right but it
03:35:43
Brian Atlaswould be an equality for example if a man uh gets a woman pregnant she wants to keep the kid and he doesn't it's true yeah I think he should
03:35:52
Brian Atlasbe allowed to walk away he can't away to also have a decision the abortion something well there's that too but I mean so men have zero Reproductive Rights so a woman can get an abortion
03:36:05
Brian Atlasbecause she's not financially ready she doesn't want to go through with the pregnants let's assume she does she can go through with a pregnancy but she's not ready emotionally she's not ready financially or she just doesn't want one
03:36:16
Brian Atlasa woman could just get an abortion for no other reason than that she just doesn't want to have the child a guy could hook up with a girl have a one night stand she wants to keep the kid he now has an 18 plus year potentially plus
03:36:28
Brian Atlasyear depends on your State financial responsibility and potentially parental custodial responsibility to a child that he didn't want exactly but a woman who has a one night stand who gets pregnant who doesn't want the kid well she can go
03:36:40
Brian Atlasthrough with a pregnancy she can uh she can choose to adopt the child out she could um um terminate the pregnancy she could keep the kid and have this man
03:36:50
Izzy / Averyfinancially responsible for 18 years of his life and so you think men should be able to have some say in whether or not a woman can get an abortion of course
03:37:01
Brian Atlasit's there he's just offering that as a c so well I mean so my thing is in any state where a woman can have an abortion I think a man should be able to say
03:37:12
Brian Atlaswell it's called Legal paternal surrender so so you would just say yeah I don't want to be financially responsible yeah I agree I think they should be able to do yeah but
03:37:22
Brian Atlasit's we can say that but it's honestly frankly never going to happen even in states that are incredibly Progressive incredibly liberal because liberals and progressives don't care about male
03:37:33
Brian Atlasissues yeah don't care about male issues so it's only about the woman and so but true equality if that's what feminists really cared for would be like well we
03:37:44
Brian Atlascan give men this equality that would equalize things or true equality we walk back abortion rights completely so that's why it's women's
03:37:56
Lizetteadvocacy right there's also though I know I don't know or I probably can't explain the but equity and equality I
03:38:07
Lizettethink is where so what I don't know what that mean so equality again I don't want to compete like with men and have everything thing I don't know yeah be
03:38:18
Lizetteequal in that sense there's it's just you mean Equity you're talking Equity yeah yeah so yeah that's that was
03:38:29
Lizettejust it yeah it's not necessarily equality which I think is the problem um that's how that's what is but so I'm a little confused here so are you saying
03:38:41
Brian Atlasthat well it's not equality but it is equity that women currently aren't required to no I I'm saying that the
03:38:49
Lizetteissue with the feminist movement is equality and a push for equality whereas again I understand that there
03:38:59
Lizetteare biological differences between men and women I don't want to be yeah I can't lift the same as or as heavy as a
03:39:08
Brian Atlasman would be able to um yeah just certain things where but yeah so what what in in terms of the two examples I provided just where does that come
03:39:19
Brian Atlasin the two examples that you provided in uh with the military well so my position is is that feminism is not excuse me it's not inequality it's not about
03:39:31
Brian Atlasequality because should there be some form of true equality between men and women that could conceivably come to the detriment of women feminists will not fight or advocate for achieving set
03:39:43
Lizetteequality sorry yeah no I was I was agreeing with your point I was just sting that the issue that I think with them is that again it's the push for equality which I think is unrealistic
03:39:55
Brian Atlasyeah I well so you're wait so you're against the push for equality yes I'm for Equity so okay so Equity would be what and that's where
03:40:06
Brian Atlasit's uh well let me ask you a question does Equity justify the current state of men in this country being the sole subjects of for wor military
03:40:16
Lizetteconscription that yeah I I'm on the side where I don't think we should be enlisted but that's because of all the issues that
03:40:27
Lizettecurrent women face in the military in the like subject
03:40:33
Lizetteto um a higher percentage of sa um a lot of them are subject to a ton uh wait hold on let me I just got to come in on this should women be proc Ed from going
03:40:45
Brian Atlasto college given that feminists often like toport that the essay rate is uh Sky High in
03:40:54
Brian Atlasuniversities it's the same it's a feminist talking point that in universities I don't agree with their statistics but they say that I mean when we're talking about a draft though this is like we're choosing to go to
03:41:05
Lizetteuniversity we're not necessarily choosing to go find the military so there you go different yeah different circumstances you're talking about fair enough you're not compelled to go to university so back to your point though
03:41:18
Andrew Wilsonso because but wouldn't I don't get that though that wouldn't that be worse like wouldn't that be worse so okay you're compelled to go to this place where you potentially could get sa versus you choose to go to this place where the
03:41:31
Andrew Wilsonstats are way higher for sa wouldn't it seem like you would still advise women not to go to either place of course we're talking about education though and getting
03:41:41
Andrew Wilsoneducation over fighting a war you're going to get educated in a War soldiers get educated and you're going to have access to free education postwar I mean the thing that I don't really understand
03:41:53
Andrew Wilsonhere though is if the argument or if kind of the the worldview is uh the rates of essay are way higher inside of college right uh makes sense right there's a lot more young women there's a
03:42:04
Andrew Wilsonlot more kind of drunkenness going on things like this kind of logic I mean logically I could see how that could definitely be an issue but if your objection is well women shouldn't have to go into a draft because of sa well
03:42:17
Andrew Wilsonthen neither should men because men are far more likely to be sa in the military as well if as if they're not in the military so if men aren't in the military less likely to be sa than if they are in the
03:42:29
Lizettemilitary men men yeah that's correct okay significantly Higher by the way uh okay I'm just not really
03:42:39
Andrew Wilsonunderstanding your question so you're saying it well it's kind so you're just you're comping yeah so make it super easy right if if you're
03:42:50
Lizettesaying women women shouldn't go to the draft because their potential to be sa is way higher not necessarily that there's just are not just that not just
03:43:01
Lizettethat point there's also just the point of physically again as well physically I think or not I think men are definitely better equipped to handle like machine
03:43:12
Lizettelike heavier machinery like do a ton of things that require physical strength I think that
03:43:22
Lizetteor like if if women fought like okay if you got women versus men to fight in a war who the hell do we think we like would win men for sure men for sure so
03:43:33
Lizetteit's just a it's just more of a I don't know how much we' help necessarily so then what additional benefit do men receive like I don't know how I know
03:43:44
Andrew Wilsonwhat listen listen I totally agree with this point but I I it just kind of makes me want to ask though what additional benefit then should men receive from the state considering the fact that you only
03:43:56
Andrew Wilsonwant them to go and fight Wars on behalf of you but can I put some so what should they additionally entitled to that
03:44:06
Andrew Wilsonyou're not entitled to is my question sorry again well if you want men to go fight Wars to protect you what should they be entitled to that you're not entitled
03:44:21
Lizetteto what what is well they have a greater responsibility than you do do you they have to go fight so what do you believe that men should be entitled to because
03:44:32
Andrew Wilsonthey do this you think that our right to vote should be stripped because we don't enlist in the milary then why should you have it if other people have to defend it on behalf of you then why shouldn't