Andrew Wilson vs. Woke Male Feminist Hater | Whatever Debates #17
Date: 2025-05-16
Duration: 5h 42m
Brian AtlasIdentified Speakers
SPEAKER_00Brian Atlas(host)
SPEAKER_01Andrew Wilson(guest)
SPEAKER_03Raphael Gomez(guest)
Key Moments
00:00:13
IntroBrian introduces debate format
00:01:22
Key MomentRaphael's opening: red pill is poison backed by peer-reviewed research
00:39:00
ControversyRaphael says 'f*** the logic' when pushed on child support justification. Brian and Andrew react with disbelief.
01:31:00
ControversyAndrew tells Raphael to 'shut the f*** up.' Most heated moment.
02:56:00
Key MomentRaphael concedes: if Christian ethics helps depressed men, he's fine with it
03:38:30
AgreementBoth agree to Round 2 debate
Topics Discussed
00:04:00
Red Pill Definition
Andrew: red pill is descriptive data packet. Raphael: it's defined by its biggest creators (Whatever, Fresh & Fit, Tate).
00:32:00
Red Pill and Male Mental Health
Raphael cites studies linking red pill to loneliness/distress. Andrew challenges replication crisis. Cohabitation vs marriage suicide rates.
00:41:00
Feminism and Single Motherhood
Andrew: feminist ideology dismantled marriage. Raphael: men abandon children (95% of custody uncontested by fathers).
01:42:00
Therapy and Psychology
Raphael advocates CBT. Andrew challenges psychology's 60-70% replication failure rate.
02:18:00
Masculinity Definition
Raphael: healthy masculinity is expansive. Andrew finds definition circular. Major meta-argument about debate methodology.
03:24:04
Closing Statements
Raphael: red pill not for everyone, seek alternatives. Andrew: opponent offered no coherent prescription.
03:29:00
Post-Debate Roast
Military draft, historical female oppression, natalism. Raphael reveals he is 41, married, deliberately child-free.
Transcript
Page 6 of 6
04:55:59
Brian Atlasokay if they choose. You concede women should be in support roles. Women being hurt equals bad. So, no choice. I just think I don't know if something's getting lost in translation, but I think
04:56:11
Raphael Gomezif it comes to conscription, I don't want to force women on the front lines. But if they choose to be on the front lines, go for it. But if we are conscripting women, I would prefer they be in support roles, unless they want to
04:56:22
Brian Atlasbe on the front line. Intel Wild donated [Music] $29.99. This guy is a piece of [ __ ] He might as well start sucking off dudes and color his hair blue already. Only
04:56:34
SPEAKER_04thing good about him is that he's from the OC area. I mean, he's representing OC, so you're not all bad, dude. Intel, are you in the OC? Are you in the OC? In OC represent. Oh, here we uh Oh, wait.
04:56:45
Brian AtlasJason Cassell with a followup here. Jason, I said fight, not spar. There is a big difference. He wants to fight you. He doesn't want Jason. Look, I got too much
04:56:57
Brian Atlasto lose, man. I'll spar with you, but I'm not getting into a a knockdown brawl because, you know, people get hurt. You know, I got too much to lose. We got Lucas here still in the chat. Lucas
04:57:08
Brian Atlasdonated $30. Oh, brother, you want to engage in a bit of playground [ __ ] talk.
04:57:14
Brian AtlasNot to be self arandizing, but I'm 6'4 in 235 lb and still bench over 300 lb of my old age. Let's get Lucas. Challenge
04:57:26
SPEAKER_04accepted. Let's do it. Even if he's not here, Lucas, just come by the studio. Uh 64200. Damn, bro. Giga, Chad, dude. Yeah, for sure. No, I'm not going to talk [ __ ] to you, Lucas. We're We're
04:57:37
SPEAKER_04bros, homie. Wow, that was Me and Lucas are bros. No, we're bros. Well, you know, the thing is though is that it was a push-up contest, right? Right. So, it's like, you know, like the thing is is that Well, at least with pull-ups,
04:57:49
SPEAKER_04this is a bit different. Like a a guy who's really light, he can do more like more pull-ups than a guy who's like big and shredded, but Exactly. There's a little bit of a like equilibrium there,
04:58:02
Raphael Gomezbut push-ups are a little different. They're different. I can't bench as much as that, but I'd be down to do a push-up contest. All right, Lucas, push-up contest. Get it. Get out here to California. You got your I don't want to
04:58:11
SPEAKER_04spar Lucas. C Lucas, can you be on camera if you with your job? But uh he's a lawyer. Uh, Michael G, now that you're friends with Brian, look him in the eyes
04:58:21
SPEAKER_04and call him a misogynist that's causing men to f11 themselves. So, unlive. Yeah. Well, here's what I'll say. Look me deep in my eyes. You got blue eyes, too. I didn't know that. I didn't know that
04:58:31
Raphael Gomeztill just now. Um, [ __ ] I mean, [ __ ] I just I walked into that. Um, so I don't know that I can call you directly a misogynist. No, I can't do that. But I do think What about all
04:58:43
Raphael Gomezthis? What about all this, Raphael? It's not only you. What is this? A lot of your panel does it. A lot of the people on your side do it. It's not just you. I think you're actually a pretty cool
04:58:53
Raphael Gomezdude. So, but the thing is I think the show sometimes does promote that stuff. And I think the guys who are angry find it to be, "Oh my god, women do suck. Yeah, I agree with with this the show.
04:59:06
Raphael GomezWomen do are the worst. I hate them. They have no logic. They're stupid." And I just think the guys who are already deep red pill, that's what they're going to continue to believe. So, that's the only thing I'm trying to do. Dude, I do your show. I, you know, do your thing.
04:59:19
Raphael GomezI'm just saying I I hope that there are men out there that aren't like going deeper into it because studies show they do. That's all I'm trying to I I don't want guys to unal alive themselves. I It's just the thing. And I'm not saying
04:59:31
Raphael Gomezyou're the cause of it, but I'm saying because they're probably watching other content, too. It's not just this. But all of that reinforces it in my opinion. You know, I think people who watch my
04:59:41
SPEAKER_04show, they actually love women more. They love women more because they, you know, you got to go into
04:59:51
SPEAKER_04something with your expectations managed. And the blue pill thing is is you're going to have a sense of what your experience is going to be with
05:00:02
SPEAKER_04dating. But if you go in to dating knowing full well what that's going to entail, then you're not going to be surprised when certain things happen and
05:00:13
SPEAKER_04which will enable you to have an understanding of women and have a have your expectations managed. And if your expectations are managed and you don't
05:00:25
SPEAKER_04believe in this Disney fairy tale [ __ ] when it comes to dating and I think women have a lot of this isn't just men's view of women. I think women need to lose the Disney [ __ ] too
05:00:37
SPEAKER_04when it comes to to men also. Uh yeah I think they have I think some have lofty expectations of what women have of dating. Yeah. But I think both men and women have been sold this like disnified
05:00:49
SPEAKER_04uh sort of ideal which is just not realistic. whatsoever. And so for this reason, I actually think if you're going into dating or your encounters with your
05:01:00
SPEAKER_04girlfriend or whatever it is with with uh managed expectations, you're not going to end up disappointed because you know exactly what you're getting into. And I think
05:01:11
SPEAKER_04that that makes for a much healthier relationship than having these uh unrealistic expectations whether you're a man or a woman when it comes to dating and relationships. I think there's a
05:01:22
Raphael Gomezfair point in what you're saying. I think um you know, let's dispel the fairy tale that there are people out there that have shitty ideals, shitty preferences. There's shitty people out there and not every woman's great, not
05:01:35
Raphael Gomezevery man is great. Um, I think that's okay to to say that, but I feel like, um, it's constantly the expect. Okay, so I'll tell you, you know, my TikTok blew up
05:01:46
Raphael Gomezpretty quickly. It's doing pretty good. The comments I get from men constantly when I ask women, would you date a man under 6 feet tall? All the women said yes. Every single one I asked. I know. So what they say, but the common thing I
05:01:59
Raphael Gomezget from every red pill guy who's also single says, "Watch what they do, not what they say." But I'm interviewing married people and these people are married to people under six foot. So I'm watching what they do and but men can't
05:02:12
Raphael Gomezbelieve it because of what they're hearing in the red pill space. They're hearing that women only want these preferences and that they're never going to get anybody and they're hearing that message over and over again. Well, I mean to to your point a little bit. So,
05:02:23
SPEAKER_04we asked the height question on our our show and even women on our show, it's not like the these super brutal black pills where they're like, "Oh, I only want to date a 65 giga Chad." No, the
05:02:34
SPEAKER_04women say, "I'm 5'7. I'll date a guy who's 5'. I'm 5 foot. I'll date a guy who's 5'4." You know, they're like, "As long as he's taller than me." And I I don't think that the women are lying
05:02:45
SPEAKER_04necessarily, but I I think you are to some degree misrepresenting the red pill position on this maybe, which is I men they're not saying that it's perhaps a black pill position. Okay, if you're not
05:02:57
SPEAKER_046 foot, you're just never going to get a girl. I the red pill position is acknowledging the reality that women have a general preference towards tall men. Do you do you disagree that
05:03:08
SPEAKER_04generally speaking, women have a preference for taller men? Not to say that they wouldn't date a guy who's 5', but generally if they had like a choice between the guy who's 63 versus the guy
05:03:19
Raphael Gomezwho's 5'9, they probably But it's the same way guys would rather have Sydney Sweeney than, you know, some girl they just met on Tinder. Like men have the same kinds of preferences in terms of the extremes. So I totally agree with
05:03:32
Raphael Gomezyou that but I think what happens is men get frustrated that women have those preferences and and it makes them feel like they're excluded. And I don't think that's necessarily the case because men follow Instagram models and they think, "Oh my gosh, she's so hot. This is who I'd rather date." But then they might
05:03:46
SPEAKER_04meet somebody in the street and just because they don't look like that or feel that, they don't feel like the attraction. And so I'm saying you're saying the men don't feel attraction towards the women. Correct. Oh well, I think that's men shouldn't follow prescriptively. I would say men should
05:03:58
Raphael Gomezfollow like IG models. Yeah. But you're right. And I I think that's a dangerous precedent for men. Well, like watch porn or anything. Yeah. Yeah. Of I and I can get behind that. I think porn is setting men up for unrealistic expectations for the world. And so they get upset because
05:04:10
Raphael Gomezthey feel rejected, but they see women have these preferences for what they consider gigachads. And it's like, yeah, if a woman had all the say in the world, she'd probably want to be with that. But the guy she ends up with is probably not going to be that. And you're missing
05:04:23
SPEAKER_04out, I think, on great opportunities to meet women and have a good relationship. Well, I do want to address your your I guess comment or perhaps criticism of you said that you do these street interviews and the the answers that the
05:04:35
SPEAKER_04women give you. You're saying that they're counter to some of the narratives for example when it comes to height, right? And the the rebuttal that you probably receive is uh look at women
05:04:47
SPEAKER_04look at what women do, not what they say. You probably get that all the time. That's the comment I get. But do you think that there's a component of truth there? Like I agree with you that women aren't aren't just like wholesale lying about every single thing they say.
05:04:59
SPEAKER_04However, I also think that and this perhaps also applies to men too is that people want to give the answer that sounds good. And I think that this men do this too, but I think women do it a
05:05:12
SPEAKER_04little bit more. And so they want to give the politically correct answer, the an answer that sounds good. Women don't want to uh give an answer that might
05:05:23
SPEAKER_04paint them as potentially superficial or uh paint them in like a bad light. So, they're going to say, "Oh, I don't care about height." But, for example, what we've done on the show is, you know, you
05:05:35
SPEAKER_04ask a woman, "Well, you don't care about height." But we just ask them, Yeah, I've seen it. How tall of all your long-term relationships, how tall have they been in a girl, for example? Not all the time. Not all the time, though. To be
05:05:48
SPEAKER_04fair, like sometimes the girl, yeah, I dated a guy who's uh my my current boyfriend's 5'7. I dated a guy who's 5'9. But we've also had women who's who are like, well, I I'm 5'4 and I would date a guy who's 5'6.
05:06:01
SPEAKER_04And then they're like, well, my last three boyfriends were all 6'3. So, it's like, well, that's a really small percentage of men uh in that in terms of
05:06:10
SPEAKER_04uh the uh the what's the term? uh percentile, the height percentile, like 6' 3, you're in like the 99th
05:06:19
SPEAKER_04percentile. Um, but again, I think women will often say, uh, the politically correct feelgood answer to these things, and I don't always think that they're
05:06:30
SPEAKER_04honest about it. And they did do a study on this. I can't recall what, but they asked women to compare, I think it was six traits. Yeah. And I don't know if you've seen this. There's this infographic floating around. It was like, uh, what are the like the six most
05:06:44
SPEAKER_04important things? I think I've seen this. And one of them was like good looks, intelligence, um, money. I can't remember the other ones. And they, uh,
05:06:54
SPEAKER_04I'm trying to remember when they looks was like at the bottom of their stated preferences, but then I don't recall exactly what the study did, but I think they showed them like images of men or
05:07:07
SPEAKER_04something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I know the study. Yeah. And then but uh their so there was a massive difference between their stated preference and their actual preference and their actual
05:07:18
SPEAKER_04preference was more towards physical attraction as compared to what their uh stated preferences were. And the other thing final I know you want to respond last thing on this is just if you ask women if they think lizo is beautiful
05:07:30
SPEAKER_04they'll say yes. Right. But do they really think that? I know what you're saying. I mean I don't know if you're a chubby chaser. I don't want to put words in your mouth. I'm just saying uh when it comes to physical attractiveness,
05:07:41
SPEAKER_04yeah, I think it's a tough sale to say that somebody who's like I'm not saying this to be insulting towards Lizo, she's just factually morbidly obese or maybe she's been losing weight a little bit too. I think most most people when it
05:07:54
SPEAKER_04comes to appraisals of physical attractiveness are not going to say like somebody who's morbidly obese is physically attractive. Generally speaking, most people wouldn't find that attractive. I hear what you're saying
05:08:05
Raphael Gomezand I got to lose a bit of weight, guys. I'm getting a little obese. Okay, go ahead. We got to cut out that in and out. But um no, I think uh I think you're on to a lot of things and I I I don't disagree that maybe some of these
05:08:16
Raphael Gomezwomen are answering this way. But that's why on my long form podcast, I interview married women because I want to interview women who are actually, you know, putting their money where their mouth is. A lot of the women I interview have either said, "I have dated men
05:08:28
Raphael Gomezunder six foot." or one of my more popular videos is, "Would you date a man who earns less money than you?" And all but one woman said yes. And that woman was, you know, being honest, which I appreciate. Um, when I
05:08:41
Raphael Gomezdid the six-foot video, the last woman I interviewed, she was like, "Well, clearly." And she points to her husband who's like her height, you know, and it's just like this is great. It's a it's a See, so I do see that women are putting their money where their mouth
05:08:52
Raphael Gomezis. Now, in that study, I if I remember correctly, they listed their preferences, but then they were shown photos. And I think photos is always going to be a bit superficial. Like, I think photo, it's like kind of like Tinder and all that stuff. It's very
05:09:05
Raphael Gomezsuperficial. I think what makes somebody attractive isn't necessarily just looks. I think looks are the first thing you notice. But I asked another question to women. What's more attractive? Looks or confidence? And every woman says confidence. Now, do looks get you in the
05:09:17
Raphael Gomezdoor? Sure. But I think a confident man who's averagel looking has a shot. If he has got a if he approaches a woman with confidence, has some personality, has a sense of humor, he's got a shot. I'm not saying more than the gigachad or
05:09:30
Raphael Gomezwhatever they call him, but he's got a shot. And a lot of women end up marrying those kinds of guys. And I think the stats alone speak to it. I think only 14% of the population is uh over 6' tall
05:09:41
Raphael Gomezum or 6t and over. But about 50% of households are married. So obviously women are marrying guys who are under six feet tall. Yeah, I would say most people uh probably a good amount of
05:09:53
SPEAKER_04people in terms of getting married, it's actually if we're talking about socioeconomics, they're marrying people or in their socioeconomic class. On the confidence thing though, um I mean I
05:10:05
SPEAKER_04don't think there's any dispute even in the uh the red pill space and there's some dispute of whether I even am red pill, but um nobody denies that confidence is a bolster when it comes to
05:10:17
SPEAKER_04attracting women. I think the conversation though is that uh and this is I don't even think it's a red pill position really. I think it might be like they're like yeah confidence is really important. I think it's more
05:10:29
SPEAKER_04Blackpill. The Blackpill guys who are like, "No, it doesn't matter." Like, uh, it's all looks. Yeah. Heights, looks, face, all that stuff. I mean, but they're not totally wrong. Like, if
05:10:42
SPEAKER_04you're really unattractive and you're the most confident guy ever, not saying you're not going to get a girl, but like the this idea that
05:10:50
SPEAKER_04confidence is like the cure all for getting like it's some magic, right? uh wand for getting any woman. I don't think that's the case. I agree. And and the other component though is that I
05:11:03
SPEAKER_04think men who are confident uh are going to fare better in person. So like an averagel looking guy, but he's like got good personality and he's confident in person. I think he's going to do well. I
05:11:14
SPEAKER_04think he's going to do well. The issue is though is that uh the majority of people uh at least from what I've seen are meeting online. So that confidence, that personality doesn't really
05:11:26
SPEAKER_04translate. And so if people are meeting on Instagram, dating apps, etc., uh, and I my understanding from some statistics I've seen, maybe it's wrong, the majority of people are meeting online in
05:11:38
SPEAKER_04some capacity, they're meeting on dating apps. So somebody's confidence or personality doesn't really have an opportunity to uh express itself online. These women are swiping on the dating apps. They're just looking for a hot
05:11:51
SPEAKER_04dude. They're going to see the hot guy first. And look, if he's like a little [ __ ] then yeah, he's going to be in trouble. But if he has like a mod of ability to have a conversation with a woman and he's good-looking and she's
05:12:03
Raphael Gomezalready physically attracted to him, he's going to do okay. Where even if his confidence maybe isn't like exceptional. Yeah. Um I agree. And I think that's kind of why I I want to encourage men. I think that's why I do on the street interviews is because I'm approaching
05:12:17
Raphael Gomezwomen randomly. They have no idea why I'm approaching them. I think most of the time they're like pretty they feel pretty comfortable with me. But um I'm trying to encourage men to do that more because personal on the dating apps is a
05:12:28
Raphael Gomezlosing game. You're outnumber you men outnumber women 3 to1 so they're already on a losing game like there are yeah the dating app I want men to get off the dating apps and I think they're kind of on the decline. I know I think
05:12:40
Raphael Gomezstatistically recently more people I agree with them. So I I'm encourage I want to encourage more people to go meet people in real life because that's when your personality can shine and that's when your confidence can shine. That's when your sense of humor can shine. And if you feel like I don't have enough money or I don't have enough this, it's
05:12:53
Raphael Gomezlike honestly there are guys at McDonald's that are married. There are guys at Walmart that are married. There are guys at gas stations that are married. And I'm not saying that's the norm, but it's possible. And I think people can find love and partnership.
05:13:04
Raphael GomezAnd that's all I'm trying to push for. That's really it. Um because I I'm not saying like I'm like a huge natalist, but I think there's a common ground in what a lot of the red pill and and a lot of these other people think is that at
05:13:16
Raphael Gomezthe end of the day, we do want to have a thriving population. And how do you do that? You get people together. And right now, there's too much of a divide. So, I'm trying to limit that divide as much as I can. That's that's my mission.
05:13:27
Raphael GomezThat's what I'm trying to do. And I you know, it's I'm brand new to this. Um but any guy I can reach with that, it's like I I know what it's like to not have confidence. I know what it's like to feel like you're never going to date a
05:13:39
Raphael Gomezgirl. Um, and it's sad and I don't I hate that feeling for men and I know a lot of men feel that way. So, um, I just want them to not feel like if you don't have six figures, six foot, six-pack abs, and no woman's ever going to like
05:13:52
Raphael Gomezyou cuz I just don't think that case because average men are. And I go to Disneyland. I go to all these places. I look around. I'm like, look at all these people in relationship. Look at all these guys and girls. They're just so normal looking. people you don't see
05:14:05
SPEAKER_04online. I I don't think there's a dispute here necessarily. Uh there's a lot of average people who are dating other average people. Yeah. Um but I
05:14:16
SPEAKER_04think that there there are a couple issues here. Um and again, I don't think anybody disputes this. Yes. If you go out into the public, you'll see
05:14:26
SPEAKER_04like a looks matched couple. You you'll see it all the time. There is though a cohort of both men and women who with their own dating
05:14:37
SPEAKER_04experiences are encountering certain things as it relates to it's not all women but there are quite a few women
05:14:46
SPEAKER_04who have uh let's say delusional expectations as it relates to their dating prospects. Agreed. Agreed. Um, and perhaps the same could be said, I think, for a smaller portion of men. Men
05:14:59
SPEAKER_04seem to, at least my assessment, men seem to be more realistic as it relates to their dating prospects. And the the you see, you also mentioned you have an issue with like the looks rating thing, but I'll I'll explain I think why. So,
05:15:12
SPEAKER_04and this is what I explain to the women. And I know you don't like the rating thing, but I think it's important. And and here's why. Is because women have uh sexual access to um men who are who I
05:15:25
SPEAKER_04would argue are outside of their league. Whereas a man, if you uh if you step to a woman who's outside of your league, and I'm at the moment I'm just talking about looks. I know what you mean. But
05:15:36
SPEAKER_04like men can bolster their prospects with status, money, confidence, personality. There's ways men can bolster and date out of their league by making up for it with those things I just mentioned. Yeah, agreed. But
05:15:48
SPEAKER_04because women But the thing is though, generally speaking, I would say like the average guy, for example, uh most average men can't be [ __ ] right? Right. I I think that most average men
05:15:59
SPEAKER_04don't have access to hookup culture. Yeah, I agree. Uh they can't go and like sleep with a new woman every single day of the week. Yeah. Every single woman, even below average, I'm not even talking about average women. I'm talking about
05:16:12
SPEAKER_04below average women. If they were so inclined, they could be [ __ ] Yeah. If they wanted to, if they turn it on, they could. Any woman can be a [ __ ] Agree. Very few men can be [ __ ] And so what
05:16:22
SPEAKER_04you have happening is essentially you have women who have sexual access, limited sexual access cuz they're not getting commitment, but they have limited sexual access to men outside their league. So what happens there? uh
05:16:35
SPEAKER_04you you basically you have a lot of women who are chasing after men who um frankly would never commit to them, right? And this is a cycle that women
05:16:45
SPEAKER_04could get into in their 20s as they're dating. Yeah. And these men uh and look, here's prescriptively uh I don't think men should sleep with women if they don't have a genuine bonafide intention
05:16:58
SPEAKER_04of being in a relationship with that girl. I don't think men should be promiscuous. I don't think men should be promiscuous. I think that's a healthy message. But in a situation where we have completely uh uh we have a global
05:17:10
SPEAKER_04sexual marketplace, uh things are completely li liberated. Women can hop on a dating app and [ __ ] a really attractive guy and it can be done without like the prying eyes of their social circle and their peer group. You
05:17:23
SPEAKER_04have women who are going to hook up with these men. You have men who are also going to hook up with these women for a different reason though. Yeah. Um, and so because of this, you have women who
05:17:34
Raphael Gomezit the way I often describe it is this what have you ever been in a dorm room? Uh, you ever lived in a dorm room? I never lived, but I I've experienced that. You ever like had housemates or roommates? Uh, yes, but like in a like
05:17:48
SPEAKER_04off-campus house. But yeah. Okay. And you shared a bathroom or something? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you currently uh I assume you and your wife live alone. Uh, yes. Just us and our dogs. Yeah. Yeah.
05:17:57
SPEAKER_04Um, it's really hard to go from uh from having like let's say you live in a mansion to going to live in a shared
05:18:08
SPEAKER_04having roommates, not housemates, roommates, people who live in the same room as you and you share a bathroom with three people. Similar to that, if a woman has dealt with a certain caliber
05:18:18
SPEAKER_04or tier of men, it's going to be kind of like you're like, "Okay, this is my league because I can sleep with these men." But you're for women, their league is the men that they can get into
05:18:29
SPEAKER_04long-term committed relationships with. So these men will entertain short-term sexual relation limited short-term sexual relationships with these women.
05:18:38
SPEAKER_04Men don't have that same ability to secure like to secure that. I so for this reason there's this differential that exists between men and women where
05:18:48
SPEAKER_04essentially you do have a cohort of women who's like well I'm they're perpetually chasing men who are out of their league because it's like the breadcrumb of like I can get a guy who's
05:19:00
SPEAKER_04more attractive. We all want the best, right? As men, we want to get the most attractive, good personality woman, whatever the whatever the, you know, whether we want to shoot for that. Yeah. Like we all want to get the best that we
05:19:12
SPEAKER_04can get, right? Uh and same with women. Women want to get the best mate that they can get. But again, going back to what I was saying, men
05:19:23
Raphael Gomezget insta rejected. So men have to be like if I step to a girl who's a 10 out of 10 Victoria Secret model, bro, it ain't happening. It ain't happening. I
05:19:33
SPEAKER_04don't care how confident podcast, you're not happening. uh if I step to a girl who's clearly out of my league, I'm not she's not going to be like, "Well, for
05:19:44
SPEAKER_04example, if I'm offering her on a silver platter sex, she's like, "No, but like as a woman, if you offer a a guy who's more attractive than you on a silver
05:19:55
SPEAKER_04platter, you offer him sex, right? He's g he might take that opportunity." So women have at least limited sexual access to men outside their league. And so essentially uh it creates a
05:20:07
Raphael Gomezcompletely different a massive dynamic. Yeah. No and I think I think you're you're absolutely right. There's nothing everything you said was absolutely correct. Um I but I think what what happens here Yes. I think online women
05:20:18
Raphael Gomezand men have unrealistic expectations of what they can get and women have more access to those unrealistic expectations. Yeah. They get breadcrumbs. They get a taste of it. Yeah. They get a taste. They get a taste. Yeah. They get a And it's hard to
05:20:31
Raphael Gomezgo back to the room. I get what you're saying. I totally understand. I think there are certain people that chase that kind of thing, though. I think there are other women who, you know, maybe they're raised in a different environment. They're not chronically online. Um they
05:20:44
Raphael Gomezthey really do want someone to just sit on the couch and watch Netflix with, you know, and they want to go get in and out and like do that kind of stuff. So, I but I I I totally agree that maybe there's some misguidedness on like our
05:20:54
Raphael Gomezexpectations uh because of the internet. But I also think that part of the frustration that men feel is that imbalance in the sexual marketplace. And so men are frustrated because women do
05:21:05
Raphael Gomezhave access to that and they don't. And that frustrates them because they want access to those same women but they can't get them. And so there's a frustration that comes from that that I think what happens is online that starts
05:21:17
Raphael Gomezto build as they continue to, you know, consume content that basically tells them that's all you should be is this cuz if you're not that, you're never going to get anybody. And I think that message is pounded into men's heads so
05:21:29
Raphael Gomezmuch so that when I'm talking to them, I'm like, "It's not like that. I got to get you outside. I got to get you offline and talking to real people." And I know it's difficult. It's hard to approach a woman. But I I was I was getting my haircut for this podcast and
05:21:42
Raphael GomezI was getting my haircut and I was telling them I was coming on here and one of the girls was like, "Oh, I'm single, you know." And I was like, "Well, uh, you know, do guys ask you out?" She's like, "No." She was like, "And honestly, the next guy that asked me out, I'd probably say yes cuz he had
05:21:53
Raphael Gomezthe balls to do it." And I'm like, "Wow." You know, like, "Shout out to homie and OC. Like, hit up Camp uh haircut. You might you might get a date." Wait, you you have a female barber? No, no, no. She I have a male
05:22:05
SPEAKER_04barber. She was in there. She was in there and I was talking to her. Uh she's one she worked there. Um so, yeah. Okay, that's my point. I'm going to uh let the rest of the chats come through, guys. Guys, $30 TTS. Final call. Final call.
05:22:19
Brian AtlasWe're going to wrap up here in just a sec. Since you asked, your face, posture, physomy, voice, and even your vibe makes you unmasculine. You're a teeny tiny little bait cuck with fe
05:22:30
Brian Atlaswings. [ __ ] Your opinions just makes you we [ __ ] joyful, are you? Hey, Josh. Josh, do you hear this voice? You hear this luscious voice? You think that
05:22:38
Brian Atlassounds not masculine, dude? What the [ __ ] What the [ __ ] Lucas donated $30. Brian dot. That's true. If her too thick, push-ups can be difficult, but I
05:22:51
Brian Atlasstill do one arm push-ups and still rep out with legit pull-ups. Chat, I apologize for my cockiness/hubris. Lucas, no one's going to roast you, dude. I deserve it. No one's roasting Lucas because he's too big. Lucas
05:23:04
Brian Atlasdonated $30 one/ Brian. I wish I can show my face on camera. I'm actually pretty polite in person. Unfortunately, there
05:23:15
Brian Atlasare a lot of pronoun in the email signature block people in my firm's HR department. I would have to got to continue. Lucas donated $30. Thank you,
05:23:25
Brian Atlasman. Coned, I would have to pull a at home, i.e. hide my face or blur it on camera. Otherwise, pretty good chance I'd be hitting the bread line
05:23:34
SPEAKER_04afterwards. It's NYC after all. We have a V for vendetta mask that you could wear. Or if honestly, Lucas, if you want, just come kick it. Spart kick it behind the scenes. You don't even have
05:23:46
Brian Atlasto come on camera. Uh, thank you, Josh. Josh donated $30. All your opinions have meant nothing. Be a man and stop being a clown. You won't see it in others. Only
05:23:57
Brian Atlasway you'll understand is when it happens to you. You probably got no guy friendss either. I do have guy friends. That That hurts though. That hurts, man. God, Duran Dolls, dude, I haven't seen you in
05:24:08
Brian Atlasa while. Donated $30. Thank you so much. Being handsome gets your foot in the door, which leads to success, which builds confidence. Just tell guys to be more confident, bro. I don't know why
05:24:20
Raphael Gomezmore men didn't think of that. I I have something on this. I I hear what you're saying. I think looks help you helps you feel confident, but I think confidence can be built in other ways. For example, just having a belief in yourself that maybe, hey, I don't have all the
05:24:32
Raphael Gomezanswers, but I'm going to come do it anyway. That's confidence. Or you build confidence by successfully doing things over time beyond dating. just, hey, I tried to learn this how to ride a motorcycle and now I ride a motorcycle. That builds confidence. Learning new
05:24:45
Brian Atlasskills that builds confidence. I don't think it's just looks. Looks help, but there's other ways to build confidence. All right, we got ghost here. Thank you, Duran. Good to see you. Logistics
05:24:53
Brian Atlasdonated $30. BTW, my kid I took custody of at 1.5 months old from a girl I broke up with for lying about birth control.
05:25:03
SPEAKER_04Dated her for a week. Men abandoning is often avoiding the persecution in court. Ghost. Yeah, I have heard reports like uh so
05:25:14
SPEAKER_04for example, a guy will uh really want to fight for his children and then he'll go talk to uh a family law attorney.
05:25:25
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And the family law attorney does not have like a good uh prediction for how it's going to go and that men face
05:25:36
SPEAKER_04certain uh challenges when it comes to uh custody disputes and this sort of thing. And so a lot of men just I mean
05:25:47
SPEAKER_04they're like man I'm going to spend all this money with a really low chance of getting a positive outcome. One of the other things that often frequently happens, and I don't know if this is the case for Ghost, I don't recall his
05:25:59
SPEAKER_04points, is, and I'm not saying all women do this, but this is actually, and I think this is something that's been studied, but uh the incidence of false
05:26:09
SPEAKER_04accusations once a custody dispute has been initiated and if the man challenges the uh dispute over custody, um it's
05:26:19
SPEAKER_04it's frequently seen more so uh almost exclusively on the women's part for various accusations to manifest themsel out of the ether uh once the man starts
05:26:31
SPEAKER_04uh fighting for custody. For example, uh there will be accusations of uh verbal abuse. There'll be accusations of emotional abuse. There'll be accusations
05:26:41
SPEAKER_04of physical abuse towards the towards the woman. But then if uh if the woman doesn't get her will, there will be further accusations that are even more
05:26:51
SPEAKER_04sinister and malevolent. She'll start accusing the man of abusing the child, physically abusing the child, and I
05:26:58
SPEAKER_04think the worst sexual uh well the yeah of the child. And um these manifest as attempts at leveraging uh these sorts of
05:27:10
SPEAKER_04accusations to either uh destroy the morale of men who are attempting to uh fight for custody of
05:27:20
SPEAKER_04their children. Yeah. uh or to paint a picture of the man as being uh essentially uh well abusive and
05:27:30
SPEAKER_04precluding him from getting any degree of custody. Uh and I'm not look there are genuine instances of abuse, but this is seen and uh Lucas is an attorney. I don't know if you he can weigh in on
05:27:43
SPEAKER_04this and I don't know if this is his area of practice with uh well I don't think it's his area of practice family law but this is seen frequently in custody dispute situations which tend to
05:27:53
SPEAKER_04end up when there's a mutual uh custody dispute often times are very very uh what's the term for like with a legal
05:28:02
SPEAKER_04thing if it's uh contentious very contentious very get very nasty and when people are fighting over their children which I think is really unfort
05:28:11
SPEAKER_04fortunate. Uh often times in furtherance of if if it's expedient to throw out the false accusation in the hopes of either
05:28:23
SPEAKER_04uh making the court believe that these abuses are real or demoralizing the the man the the man to uh cease their his
05:28:33
Raphael Gomezhis pursuit of custody. Uh it's it it's actually effective sadly. I bet. I bet. I bet it I I I Okay, assuming the instances are false, of course. I'm sure there instances where it's true, but
05:28:45
Raphael Gomezassuming this is being completely fabricated. Yeah, that can totally be used against men because I'm sure there's a bias that that happened or they're going to believe the woman, you know, because of this, you know, and that's horrible. That shouldn't be done.
05:28:55
Raphael GomezUm I I I abhore anybody who tries to keep a good father from their kids. I think that's horrible. I think that's one of the worst things you could possibly do. Keeping bad fathers away
05:29:07
SPEAKER_04from kids. I'm okay with keeping good fathers away. That's that's evil in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. Um and I don't know if that's a ghost situation, but uh there was like I think two separate guys
05:29:18
SPEAKER_04who sent in messages who were saying they had like these just catastrophic like months or even year-long custody disputes. It's just it's you know what's
05:29:28
SPEAKER_04actually interesting is uh I I actually sat in uh I was like preparing for a small claims case I was dealing with and I just went to the courthouse and I sat
05:29:38
SPEAKER_04in uh and uh in one of the these court proceedings and I watched like three separate uh divorce slash uh child
05:29:49
SPEAKER_04custody child support and it's it's really sadly dude it's like sad to see these two people they once loved each There's children involved and the relationship's just completely
05:30:00
SPEAKER_04destroyed. It's really sad. It's sad as hell. And uh yeah, it's uh it's horrible for everybody. You had criticisms as it relates to like my anti-marriage position. And like honestly, I this
05:30:13
SPEAKER_04might seem like kind of doomer black pill, but I do think it's worth it for men to just to just go make an informed
05:30:22
SPEAKER_04decision. just go and watch family law proceedings for an hour or two and just be you gotta be I'm not saying well
05:30:32
SPEAKER_04maybe don't get married but at least go into it knowing that in the event of a divorce that's how it could be. So one just you got to pick you got to make sure you pick the right woman.
05:30:45
SPEAKER_04Absolutely. You don't want to be dealing with a woman that's going to be like any sort of It's tough though. Even some women switch up so you can't even really know. But you got to just make sure you
05:30:56
Brian Atlasgot to vet you got to vet the woman properly. Even then, man, [ __ ] It's complicated. Whatever. I'm going to let the rest of the chats come through. Oh my god. Intel Wild donated $29.99.
05:31:08
Brian AtlasDid this one come through already? This has a micro kit. No, it's huge. It's gargantuan word. You're a [ __ ] liar. You're a [ __ ]
05:31:19
Brian Atlasliar. Intel Wild donated $30. Thank you. No such thing as happiness in real life. If you believe in that, you will surely be depressed. Intel Wild. Look, reading a message like that is exactly what
05:31:31
Brian Atlasmakes me concerned because happiness is in real life. Lucas donated $30. Brian, I'll come out next time Andrew is back. I'll bring wifey, too. I visit my firm's
05:31:44
Brian AtlasLA office periodically to collaborate so I can come and kick it. Based Thor donated $30 as a topic from last episode. Is it essay if he stops 2
05:31:56
Brian Atlasseconds after she said no, but is a premature ejaculator and busted a nut on her after she said no? Is it still essay? It's a crazy hypothetical. What if he's in the middle of
05:32:09
SPEAKER_04ejaculating? He's in the middle of ejaculating. I can't engage with him. All right. All right. All right. He doesn't like it. All right. Uh, let me read. We got super chats here. We got Michael G. Now that you're Oh, wait. Did
05:32:20
SPEAKER_04I did that one? Jason Cassell. Okay. I think I want to fight Lucas. Oh, [ __ ] We got some viewer on viewer boxing
05:32:27
SPEAKER_04action here. 61 260 bench or no, he weighs 260. He benches 450 lb 415 lbs.
05:32:37
SPEAKER_04Deadlifts 675 lbs. 47. Just kidding. I don't want to fight. Lucas is awesome. Oh [ __ ] Jason, look at this handsome guy with his sunglasses there. I do think if you saw the boxing thing though, it should be people of opposing
05:32:49
Raphael Gomezviews because that'll be more like oof. That'll be more engaging. Who Who do you want to box? Andrew. Uh, no. I don't want to box Andrew. Um, no. I don't think I I don't know if there's anybody I want to box. Uh, I wouldn't box Andrew
05:33:02
SPEAKER_04Tay because I get my ass kicked. Um, would you box Donald Trump? Yeah, I would throw him. Uh, we got Michael R. Oh, Raph, can you draw a super S right now? It's not How can any of us ever
05:33:13
SPEAKER_04trust you? What's a Super S? It's like the Stussy S. It's like Here, hold on. Is it the three the lines? Yeah, this thing. Oh, yeah. I remember this from school. [ __ ] I don't remember if I know how to do it though. Yeah, that thing. [ __ ] I can't remember how to connect them. It's hard. It's hard. Uh, all
05:33:27
SPEAKER_04right. That's it for the super chats, guys. Final call if you want to get in the final roast. We're going to get this wrapped up here. We got Lucas. One sec, Lucas. Getting this pulled up. Oh, really quick. Um um Mary,
05:33:39
SPEAKER_04can you pull up Twitch really quick? Guys, final call for Twitch. If you enjoyed the stream, guys, and you're watching on YouTube or you're watching on Twitch, can you guys check if you have a Prime sub available? Guys, it's been 36 minutes since we last got a
05:33:51
SPEAKER_04Prime sub. I think it's bugged, boys. It's been a minute since I've been doing the bugged thing, but I think it's bugged. Can somebody just check if there's a Twitch Prime in the chat? Guys, drop us a follow and a Prime sub if you have one. If you have Amazon
05:34:04
SPEAKER_04Prime, you can link it to your Twitch. quick, free, easy way to support the show every single month. Thank you guys for the support over there. Also, guys, discord.gg whatever. Also, like the video, please. Appreciate it, guys.
05:34:15
SPEAKER_04Appreciate it. Guys, final call on the TTS. Oh, I need to do Venmos really quick. We had uh Douglas Marks, thank for the $5 on Venmo. Eric, thank for the
05:34:23
SPEAKER_0410 on Venmo and 50 Bag of Hate, thank you for the 10. Uh, thank you for the $10 via Cash App. Really appreciate it, guys. Thank you. Thank you. All right,
05:34:34
SPEAKER_04final call on these. Uh, we have uh here I'll wait for Lucas to finish this. Michael G. Raph, you're a kind-hearted good man who's makes you a target in secular capitalism. You need
05:34:46
SPEAKER_04to join the church and you can thrive. Next debate, you'll be Andrew teaching you how to accept Jesus. Uh, thanks for the compliment, Michael. I do try to be kind and good-hearted. Um, I am
05:34:58
Brian Atlasthriving, though. I got to say I love I do love my life. All right. And then we have these final messages here from Lucas. Lucas donated $30. Thank you, man.
05:35:08
Brian AtlasOne/Brian James Ston talks about this a lot. Women fight hard for custody. BC, there is child support dollar at play. The child support money is typically not
05:35:19
SPEAKER_04specifically earmarked for the kids. So, it can, you know, really quick, I'm going to let the rest of viewers come through there. there. This is actually a men's rights position. In the same way with like food stamps and SNAP benefits,
05:35:31
SPEAKER_04like food benefits, uh you can only like they give you a card. You can only spend it on food. Yeah. Uh you can't like go
05:35:39
SPEAKER_04buy like I don't know like alcohol. You can't go and buy like um electronic like it it will only work with food. And I
05:35:50
SPEAKER_04think there could be something else implemented with child support where it has to be spent on something. It could get a little complicated though if like part of it is like helping out with
05:36:01
SPEAKER_04rent, but like child support should go towards the child. It should go towards child expense, like child support related expenses. It should you shouldn't be able to get your nails done
05:36:13
Raphael Gomezif there's like excess money from the child support. So I think I I I think everyone can agree with that. Are there people that don't? Are there people that think otherwise? Cuz I feel like that's pretty reasonable. Yeah. Well, but there's not currently like like a system
05:36:26
SPEAKER_04for that. There's not a system in place for that. It's just like here's $2,000 or here's however much money it is. You can really spend it on anything you want. So Lucas donated $30 countered so the
05:36:39
Brian Atlasmother can use the child support dollar for whatever since it's never audited. Also, family law is court of equity, so false allegations are typically handled
05:36:49
Brian Atlasas per the judge's discretion. Lucas donated $30. What's that? Three/ not pursuant to a law standard of proof. Also, officer Tatum has often discussed
05:37:01
Brian Atlasthe weaponization of false TV allegations. Yo, Jay, bench £400. You got me, bro. What? What is
05:37:11
Brian Atlasuh court of equity? What does that mean? Never heard that. 04 donated $30. Brian lost my ex-wife to
05:37:22
Brian Atlassubstance abuse and bipolar disorder. Came out of the blue. Even if you think you picked the one, it can change overnight. It cost her the marriage and her life. I'm sorry, buddy. That's
05:37:33
SPEAKER_04That's hard, man. Wait, you lost her as in she? It sounds like it. It sounds like it cost her life. You lost her like you got divorced. I think you said it cost her life. I don't know. Oh, and she
05:37:44
Raphael GomezOkay. Oh my god, I'm so toaster brain. And her life. Okay, that's hard, man. I didn't see that part. Sorry to hear that, man. Um, damn. It takes a lot of bravery to to engage in relationships cuz they really can go bad. I mean,
05:37:57
Raphael Gomezthat's that that's the reality. They can go real bad. And I'm really sorry to hear it went that way. That's Yeah. I mean, that's the tough thing, too, is
05:38:05
SPEAKER_04like you think you know somebody, but people change, circumstances change. I don't think most people go into relationships or specifically marriage
05:38:16
SPEAKER_04like like anticipating that there's going to be a divorce. Like they're probably not like thinking like this is going to happen, but they probably think this is the love of my life, right? And and it's devastating if it if it goes
05:38:29
Raphael Gomezthe other way. It's devastating because you really do believe in this thing. So yeah, I I look I I don't want to belittle men trying to date because it is scary as [ __ ] And I think that's why
05:38:39
SPEAKER_04women appreciate the courage often because it is a brave thing to do to go talk to women. And I I mean I from my own experience uh I've actually dated
05:38:50
SPEAKER_04some pretty wonderful women. Uh, but there was one girl in particular I dated who she had uh borderline personality
05:38:58
SPEAKER_04disorder, BPD, and uh I mean honestly there were some I was young looking back there's some signs pretty early on. There were some signs early on that I probably could have tuned into, but I
05:39:10
SPEAKER_04was young and naive and didn't have much relationship experience, but uh like uh definitely people, you know, like that relationship from how it started to like
05:39:22
SPEAKER_04it changed a lot completely different. It was very different. But even like people who don't have any sort of uh like personality disorders or whatever, [ __ ] can change. Absolutely. And I think one of the things though, at least as it relates to marriage, which is one of the
05:39:34
SPEAKER_04things men should potentially look out for, is I think once you're married, I think the woman has more has leverage because if if you're the bread winner, if you're the bread winner as the guy
05:39:47
Raphael Gomezand you're getting into alimony territory. Yeah. Then it's like she's kind of got you by the balls. It she's got you by the balls. It can be, but I I I could be wrong, but I think
05:40:00
Raphael Gomezagain, I might have been wrong about some of my stats, but I believe only 10% of marriages end up with alimony payments. I think I think it's something along those lines. Yeah, I don't know what the statist statistics are on it.
05:40:11
SPEAKER_04Obviously, if you've been married for a short time, my understanding is if it's below a certain threshold, you'll pay alimony for a duration that's proportionate to the length of uh you
05:40:24
SPEAKER_04know, the marriage. It's not like I don't think it's you've been married for 3 years, you pay alimony for 3 years. I think it's maybe I don't know. It's different in different jur jurisdictions. Maybe it's half. I think in California it's either after eight or
05:40:36
Raphael Gomez10 years, then there's the it's potentially life lifetime alimony. That's kind of ridiculous. But well, I personally believe, you know, if you're really worried about if you really have a lot of assets and finances and you're
05:40:49
SPEAKER_04worried about alimony, I mean, if you know, I think a woman can understand a prenup prenup. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Yeah. that there's concerns with prenups too. They can be Yeah, prenups can be challenged. Oh. Uh yeah, they prenups can be
05:41:00
SPEAKER_04challenged. Sometimes they can be deemed uninforceable. Interesting. And then it can often times it can I think Lucas, correct me if I'm wrong, it only applies
05:41:10
SPEAKER_04to that which occurs uh or it can only exclude that like assets or money that existed prior to the marriage, but
05:41:20
Raphael Gomezanything earned during the marriage. I I don't think I I think legally you could still exclude things during the marriage. I think I could be wrong, but I think cuz uh yeah, but we do have to wrap the show. Uh Raphael, thank you for
05:41:33
SPEAKER_04joining me, man. Really appreciate it show, guys. Kindly like the video on the way out, guys. We will be live again tomorrow. Uh so we're going to be live Friday, we're going to be live Saturday,
05:41:44
SPEAKER_04we Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. This is going to be the longest stretch of whatever content prep ever as far as I'm concerned. Uh really good debates. Uh we got a great debate lined up for
05:41:56
SPEAKER_04tomorrow. Got a great debate Saturday. Great debate Monday. Great dating talk. So be sure to tune in, guys. Uh great show. Raphael, thank you again for joining me. Really appreciate it, guys. Like the video on the way out, guys. I hope you guys have a good rest of your
05:42:09
SPEAKER_04night. Tune in tomorrow. Uh it's going to be I think we're aiming to go live about 3:30 p.m. tomorrow. So, be sure to tune in for the great debate tomorrow. Andrew Wilson will be back. All right, guys. Good night. 07's in the chat.
05:42:22
SPEAKER_04We'll see you guys next time. Good night, guys.