Andrew Wilson vs. Woke Male Feminist Hater | Whatever Debates #17
Date: 2025-05-16
Duration: 5h 42m
Brian AtlasIdentified Speakers
SPEAKER_00Brian Atlas(host)
SPEAKER_01Andrew Wilson(guest)
SPEAKER_03Raphael Gomez(guest)
Key Moments
00:00:13
IntroBrian introduces debate format
00:01:22
Key MomentRaphael's opening: red pill is poison backed by peer-reviewed research
00:39:00
ControversyRaphael says 'f*** the logic' when pushed on child support justification. Brian and Andrew react with disbelief.
01:31:00
ControversyAndrew tells Raphael to 'shut the f*** up.' Most heated moment.
02:56:00
Key MomentRaphael concedes: if Christian ethics helps depressed men, he's fine with it
03:38:30
AgreementBoth agree to Round 2 debate
Topics Discussed
00:04:00
Red Pill Definition
Andrew: red pill is descriptive data packet. Raphael: it's defined by its biggest creators (Whatever, Fresh & Fit, Tate).
00:32:00
Red Pill and Male Mental Health
Raphael cites studies linking red pill to loneliness/distress. Andrew challenges replication crisis. Cohabitation vs marriage suicide rates.
00:41:00
Feminism and Single Motherhood
Andrew: feminist ideology dismantled marriage. Raphael: men abandon children (95% of custody uncontested by fathers).
01:42:00
Therapy and Psychology
Raphael advocates CBT. Andrew challenges psychology's 60-70% replication failure rate.
02:18:00
Masculinity Definition
Raphael: healthy masculinity is expansive. Andrew finds definition circular. Major meta-argument about debate methodology.
03:24:04
Closing Statements
Raphael: red pill not for everyone, seek alternatives. Andrew: opponent offered no coherent prescription.
03:29:00
Post-Debate Roast
Military draft, historical female oppression, natalism. Raphael reveals he is 41, married, deliberately child-free.
Transcript
Page 2 of 6
01:00:26
Raphael Gomezthe whole point I've been trying to make this whole debate is any chance you get, you blame women. Any chance you get, you blame women. Single mothers for what? For everything. You blame women for the downfall of society. What if it is that?
01:00:38
Andrew WilsonLet me ask you this. You blame Do you blame women for the downfall of society? No, I don't blame it for the downfall of society. The current trend of society. You don't? No, you never said that. No,
01:00:48
Andrew Wilsonwhat I blame women for specifically, right, is feminism and feminist Marxist ideology. I do blame them for that. Yes. Okay. And as you said, feminism is the reason there's so many single mothers, right? I think it's a core reason. Yeah.
01:01:00
Andrew WilsonOkay. So, is that contributed to the downfall of society? Sure. So, through that logic, women are contributing to the downfall of society. Yeah. But men would also be contributing the downfall of society. Okay. So, you blame women mostly for the downfall of society. You
01:01:12
Andrew Wilsonblame feminism. Yes. the ideology of feminism which I'm blaming the ideology. So you're just asking about the execution. It's like are you blaming men for the downfall of society of a society
01:01:24
Andrew Wilsonwhich is mostly communist or would you be blame because they're enforcing everything or would you be blaming the ideology? You're blaming women. Can you answer my question? No, you're blaming women. You're not blaming the ideology because women are the ones who So I'm
01:01:37
Andrew Wilsongoing to ask the question again until you answer it. Okay. So you have a communist country, right? And the men are are doing most of the bad stuff in the communist country. Would you blame the men or would you blame communism? I don't think feminism can answer my
01:01:51
Andrew Wilson[ __ ] question. Answer the question. Yes or no? You don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Okay. Start answering that. I don't know. Because you're saying feminism the ideology in its own. Feminism the ideology on it. You lived
01:02:02
Andrew Wilsonin a communist country and it was mostly the men enforcing the communism. You don't know if you'd blame the men or the ideology. Really? You don't know. I' I'd probably blame the men at that point. You blame the Okay. Well, then then So, you're saying that I should blame women?
01:02:15
Andrew WilsonNo, I'm saying that you do. I blame the ideology. No, you're blaming the women every chance you get. The only consistent thing you could actually say here would be, I blame communism for the
01:02:26
Andrew Wilsonway these men are behaving. Unless you innately think men are bad. What about feminism? Unless you innately think ma men are bad. What about feminism is bringing about the downfall of society? You mean what what is it contributing to? Yeah. It's not just contributing to
01:02:39
Andrew Wilsonsingle motherhood. It also contributes to these two-income households. It's contributing to well, it contributes to the fact that we even need two inome households. But one of the major things it contributes to is taking mothers out
01:02:51
Raphael Gomezof the home. That's the biggest way that it contributes to the downfall of society is taking mothers out of the home. Don't you agree? I don't agree. But this this goes to the point that I said how does this change what I said that you blame feminism for the downfall
01:03:03
Andrew Wilsonof society? It well you didn't say that. You said I said I said that initially and I said that in my opening statement as well. blame women who who implemented feminism. Yeah. So, well, that was a bunch of rich corporatists and then and then it was also a lot of women who were
01:03:15
Andrew Wilsonin bed with No, it really was. It was rich corporatist. Was it men that implemented feminism? It was both. Okay. Yeah, it was both. But what do you think I But back to this, I just I just want to make sure, right? Why would it like
01:03:28
Andrew Wilsonhow would it even track that I would blame women for the I or or hate women? I'm sorry. Hate women. I do blame them if they're feminists for holding that
01:03:38
Andrew Wilsonideology, but that's not all women. That's not me hating women. You made the distinction earlier that if I hate an individual woman, that's not that's not misogyny, right?
01:03:50
Andrew WilsonI wouldn't say on an individual level, no. Yeah. So then if I hate all feminists, that's only hating individuals with an ideology, right? If most women are feminist, wouldn't that be misogynistic? I'm not sure that most
01:04:02
Andrew Wilsonwomen Well, I don't know. That's hard to say. But if it is the case, no. Actually, even if it was the case that most women were feminists and you hated fe all all women who were feminists, you
01:04:14
Andrew Wilsonstill wouldn't hate women. You would only hate feminists. That's an easy way out of that one. Well, I mean, it's true though, right? No. No, it's not true. Okay, then explain the logic to me because if women are feminists and you hate feminism, then you hate women. No,
01:04:26
Andrew Wilsonno, you hate feminism. Okay. Yeah. So, here's the thing and I can prove it. I hate men who are feminists, too. Oh, you're looking at one. Yeah. So, so here's the thing. If that's the case,
01:04:37
Andrew Wilsonthen would that make me a misandress? I don't think so. What if most men were feminists, which you said it's about 80%. So, then I hate 80% of men by that
01:04:49
Andrew Wilsonlogic. So, I'm a misandress, right? If you hate them for that, for that. Yeah, sure. Okay. So, then I'm a misandress and a misogynist. Then, yeah, you hate So, I just [ __ ] hate everybody. I mean, I wouldn't say most [ __ ] hate
01:05:01
Raphael Gomezeverybody. I wouldn't say most men are feminist. You said 80%. I I'm granting your hypothetical. You weren't granting a hypothetical. You I asked you the question. You said 80% agree with me. No, I don't think men I don't think 80% of men are feminists. Okay. How many? I
01:05:14
Andrew Wilsondon't know. I have no idea. I'll throw out a number. I'll say maybe 30%. 30%. Yeah. And how many women? Um I have no idea. Maybe 80. So, a lot more. Yeah. And you think that that shouldn't come
01:05:25
Andrew Wilsonup during a dating talk, huh? I'm not saying it should. I'm saying that you feminism which which by default you blame women. So if women are in the workplace men and women are so ideologically split on like almost a a
01:05:38
Andrew Wilsonlike a 60/20 playing field you don't think that's pertinent to dating. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that you blame feminism for the downfall of society. I not not just feminism. Okay. Yeah. But I do blame feminists for their
01:05:50
Andrew Wilsonpart of the downfall of society. Yeah. Including going to work, including going to college, including all No. idea of separating mothers from children. That was the worst idea. By going to work and going to college and that's a that's a
01:06:01
Andrew Wilsonterrible idea, right? Don't you think it's a better Who? Well, like why is it a better idea for you to send your kid to away from you to like a [ __ ] nanny
01:06:13
Andrew Wilsonor something to raise the kid instead of you? How's that better? I don't know. Move on. You don't know. Well, you can. Do you want to give a response before? Just cuz cuz it's not [ __ ] better, is it? I'm not going to get into that. Yeah, cuz it's not
01:06:27
SPEAKER_02better, is it? I'm not going to get into it. Yeah, cuz it's Is it better though? Is it better? Is it better to send your kid off the [ __ ] Canuela? Who knows? Maybe it's better for that family. I have no idea. You You're making these big broad generalizations about how life
01:06:39
Andrew Wilsonshould know. Do you think maybe for some families average that it would be better if mothers raise their children or outsource the raising of their children? They're not outsourcing it. Maybe it's for part of the day, Andrew. They're outsourcing. That's not outsourcing it
01:06:50
Andrew Wilsonbecause there's still the rest of the day. Okay. So, how much time on average is it that you think that mothers are spending with their children in comparison to how much they used to spend with their children before they were in the workforce? I have no idea. You don't know? No. What if it What
01:07:03
Andrew Wilsonabout throwing one of those numbers out? What would you What would you think? Well, how about this? How about just make it easy? More or less? Less. Less. They're spending less time with them now, right? Do you think that that's good? I think each individual family has
01:07:16
Andrew Wilsontheir own. Do you think that that's good? I think each individual family has their own. You think it's good for society? Others are spending less you think. Okay. Got it. Got it. Well, we'll come back to that. We do need to let a
01:07:26
SPEAKER_04couple chats come through. We have quite a few who have collected. So, we have Nasha Nabu. Thank you. Appreciate it. Nashu Nabu donated
01:07:37
Brian Atlas$200. The lead attorney, a divorce attorney, speaks on why men do not fight for their kids. Judges go off precedent. Because of this, lawyers tell fathers not to fight for their kids because they
01:07:49
Andrew Wilsonlose. H, you know, I don't even I don't even want to grant that. Like, I don't even think you need to grant it. If the idea is just that women are completely in
01:08:00
Andrew Wilsoncharge of all reproductive rights, period. Um, and you can't justify why men need to take care of their [ __ ] kids, then who gives a [ __ ] If I can respond to that, um, quick response if
01:08:10
Raphael Gomezyou can. Yeah, the majority of fathers that do contest tend to get, uh, their child, at least in modern times. Okay. Uh, Nshu, appreciate that. We have uh
01:08:21
Brian Atlasson coming in. Thank you. Offson donated $100. Thank you. This guy is a hypocrite. Critiquing Andrew for pushing a world view when he does himself. This
01:08:32
Raphael Gomezguy can't make any prescriptive statements. He is a progressive feminist. This reduces to Emma preferences. To my preferences. Yeah. My I came here to say let's try to get men and women dating again, but we ended up
01:08:44
SPEAKER_04talking about single motherhoods. Okay. Well, let's let's get into that. Let's get let's go. Let's get through a few more chats, but we can come back to it. Um uh son, appreciate that. We have stream. Thank you, man. Stream rift
01:08:57
Brian Atlasdonated $100. Women will lie, cheat, and steal to hurt a father by fighting over custody. The question shouldn't be why men don't fight for their kids. It's why
01:09:08
Andrew Wilsondo single moms make them fight to begin with? If you care about your kids, you'll fight for them. I don't care. I don't care the obstacles. Because my opponent over here demonstrated it for you. Women should have the complete and total right over all men's children,
01:09:20
Andrew Wilsonincluding the right to kill them, and should be able to force them to pay support for those children long term. And can't even justify why. He can't even tell us. Give us a single reason why. I I did give you a reason. Okay. What? If you have a child, you should
01:09:33
Andrew Wilsontake care of it. The reason because you should. Why? Because you should. Oh, because you should. Because you should. Because you should. Exactly. You should give me $100. Okay. Well, I won't. Yeah. But if you said you but you should Okay. You should Yeah, but you should they
01:09:46
SPEAKER_02should raise their children. Yeah, but but why they should fight for their child? Why? Because it's their child. Why? There doesn't need anymore. That's a sentence. You're just saying, dude, that doesn't that doesn't say anything. Yeah. Okay. It doesn't say anything. It says nothing. Father should just not take care of the children. No, but
01:10:00
Andrew Wilsonhere's the thing that's interesting, right? It's like you're doing everything to enable women to kill men's children. I don't agree with that framing, but go for it. Well, I mean, here's the thing, right? Can men say anything about it? Nope. Well, then there's nothing.
01:10:12
SPEAKER_04There's no framing here to disagree with. Yeah, it's not killing. Quick uh clarifying question for you just uh because it's come up a couple times. Do you want to just state your quick position on abortion? Are you pro pro-choice? I'm not I'm here to talk about I'm pro choice, but I'm not here
01:10:24
Raphael Gomezto talk about abortion. We don't have to get into abortion, but that's what always happens on this show. It's like we're here to talk about red pill manosphere and we're talking about abortion. It's just really fascinating. Well, there's a bunch of different pro Yeah. When you ask when you ask a bunch of different questions and I test your
01:10:37
Andrew Wilsonlogic and it moves into that, what's unfair about that? Well, it's because you lose the point of what we're here to talk about. I'm not losing any points. Yeah, you are. You lose the point of what we're talking about. This is what this this is why your debates take five hours is because you get into all these stupid little side arguments that don't
01:10:50
Andrew Wilsongo into what we talked about in our opening statement. Let's do it this way. You ask a question, I ask a question. You answer, I answer. How's that? And then we can't deter it. You want to do it that way? I I'm I'm following Brian's
01:11:02
Raphael Gomezmoderation. I'm fine with that if you guys want to go back and forth. You think I'm trying to be evasive with you? No, it's not evasive. It's just that every time. Or maybe you just want a filibuster. I have nothing about filibustering. I'm You're doing most of
01:11:13
SPEAKER_04the talking, bro. It's been pretty equal. I think it's been Yeah, you guys have both talked a good amount. Okay. All right. Here we got more chats, though, then we'll get into some of the debate stuff. We have Christopher. Thank
01:11:25
Brian Atlasyou, Christopher. Appreciate it. Christopher Scott donated $100. Thanks, man. Just because men don't file for custody doesn't mean they abandon their children. There could be an agreement outside of court for shared custody.
01:11:38
SPEAKER_04That's fair, but statistically more men abandon the children than women. Okay. Uh we have Jason Cassell. Thank you guys. By the way, if you want to get one in uh streamlabs.com/ whatever we're
01:11:50
Raphael Gomezdoing $100. The the thing is so funny about that is like but you advocate for a society where the women own the children. So it's advocate for a society where women get to make the decision whether or not they have a child. So
01:12:01
Andrew Wilsonthey own the child. No, they they own their pregnancy. Yeah. So they so so they own the right over the life of the man's child literally by the they own a pregnancy and the father should take care of it after that. But what if the man so but if the woman doesn't want to take care of it, she gets out. If the
01:12:14
Andrew Wilsonfather doesn't want to take care of it, he does not. Right. Correct. So then the ownership of the child and life and death of the child and life and death of the father falls to the woman. Okay. Life's not fair, Andrew. So So
01:12:26
Raphael Gomezdon't you think women have a greater responsibility here for reproduction than men? I think women have a responsibility for their pregnancy and then a father and a mother Hold on. I'm talking and then the father and the mother have a responsibility to raise a child. Okay, that's not my question.
01:12:39
Andrew WilsonRepeat my question. Repeat my question. Yeah, but that's my stance. Okay, so I'm going to ask the question again, then actually answer my question. Don't you think that if it is the case that you advocate that only women can have the right to terminate a pregnancy and that
01:12:50
Andrew Wilsononly women can have the right to bring it to bear and that affects the man's life and it affects the child's life. But the sole decision is on her for reproduction. Why doesn't she have a
01:13:01
Andrew Wilsongreater responsibility to who she [ __ ] reproduces with? Why? Because the other person was involved just as much. I don't know what to [ __ ] do with [ __ ] so stupid. Yeah, it's
01:13:12
Andrew Wilsonstupid. So way more. So so she has way more privilege, right? Way more privilege privilege. Yeah. Way more privilege. But for some odd reason, no
01:13:22
Andrew Wilsongreater. No more. No. No. Not even equal responsibility. Like this [ __ ] wild to me. Yeah. So let me just make sure. Well, can you say it for me one more time? Say it for me one more time. that
01:13:34
Andrew Wilsonwomen, right, even though they get to determine the pregnancy the entire time, have no greater duty or responsibility for who they reproduce with. Correct. Even though they're the gatekeepers of reproduction because someone else was a
01:13:47
Andrew Wilsonpart of that birth. Even though they're the gatekeepers of reproduction. Gatekeeper. Okay. Well, they're the literally someone entered the gate, Andrew. Don't they have a responsibility? No, they could just kill whoever came through. Whatever the result of that, but someone walked through the [ __ ] gate, right? Yeah.
01:14:00
Andrew WilsonHow could I don't know how you can possibly uh make this claim consistent for me. How do they not have a greater duty when they are the ones who can reproduce? Men can't reproduce and they
01:14:11
Raphael Gomezdon't have the option of saying no afterwards. Only women have the greater duty of the pregnancy and then after that the mother and the father should raise the child together. That's my stance. Okay. Well, let me ask you this. No, we're moving on. Do you think that
01:14:24
Andrew Wilsonin dating Oh, no. You Yeah. Go ahead. Do you think do you think in dating, right, that it would be like a really big deterrent if I knew that if I had sex with a woman,
01:14:36
Andrew Wilsoneven if I cared about her, right, and she got pregnant, that I would have zero choice over the the health and welfare of my child, but she would have 100% of
01:14:48
Andrew Wilsonthe choice over that. Isn't that how it is today? Yeah. So, what's the difference? Yeah. So, so right now today, don't you think that that would act as a massive deterrent in dating, which is the thing you want men and
01:15:00
Andrew Wilsonwomen to do again? What's what's changed about that? When's when when hasn't that been the case? When's the last time that wasn't the case? What? That women had the scenario? Yeah. So, before the 60s. Okay. Well, people were still dating,
01:15:11
Andrew Wilsonright? Yeah. But do don't you think that abortion had an arc where previous generations were not as accustomed to it as they are now? And before there wasn't that many people resisting it. And now many, many more. We have the it's the age of the internet, right? So you don't
01:15:25
Andrew Wilsonthink men are dating because they're afraid women are going to abort their child? I would say do do you think do you think any reason is a monolithic one? Not necessarily. No. Yeah. So So I could have many reasons, right? Yeah. But you're asking about this one in particular. Yes. That's right. This one
01:15:39
Andrew Wilsonin particular. Do you think that that would cause incentive, more incentive at least for men to be very wary of the dating market if it is the case that women can have the choice over the
01:15:49
Andrew Wilsonreproduction of their child? No, I don't. Why? Because it hasn't really changed that much since the 60s. So, I don't I I I really don't
01:16:00
Andrew Wilsonunderstand this. It even if it is a case that boomers, right, who didn't really have to deal with this problem as much as it's it's done. I mean, it's casual now. It's casual. Like, do you think in
01:16:10
Andrew Wilsonthe 60s and 70s that women were female comedians were televising their abortion like Sarah Silverman? No. But you said it's more casual, right? Yeah. that their abort their their abortions are
01:16:22
Raphael Gomezmore casual and and sex is more casual too. Yes. So that doesn't seem like much of a deterrent. What do you mean? Guys are still banging. Sex, correct? The sex isn't a deterrent. The sex is regardless of relationships. If the sex is what
01:16:35
SPEAKER_02causes the child, Andrew, the sex is what causes the child. So if more casual sex is happening, then it's not much of a deter. If you're dating a woman, is that casual sex? No, we're talking about sexual dating. Say the word. It's obviously not. If people are having
01:16:48
SPEAKER_02casual sex, I don't need to say your [ __ ] If people are having more casual sex, then they're obviously not that deterred by the idea of this woman could terminate the pregnancy. So, I'm talking about dating. I asked you about that word dating. You
01:17:01
Andrew Wilsonsay casual sex, but then casual sex, not dating. So, that you shouldn't logically put that in. Makes no sense. So, we're talking about dating. Do you think if you're dating a woman, right, that you would be deterred from dating the thing
01:17:13
Raphael Gomezyou want to do by the fact that she has complete and total control over reproduction? No, because I don't think men are avoiding dating because they're like, "Oh man, she might abort my child." But really, but I thought you just said that there was an uptick in
01:17:24
Raphael Gomezcasual sex. There is. Instead of dating, not instead of dating. I'm saying there's been casual sex for a long time. Is dating up or down? Dating is down. Is casual sex up or down? It's about the
01:17:34
Andrew Wilsonsame as it was probably whenever we were in college. No. Okay. No. Do you think that casual But even if that was the case, dating is down. Casual sex the same. So that mean would it still mean that people are having more casual sex than they're dating? Right. Yeah. But I
01:17:48
Andrew Wilsondon't think they're not dating because they're afraid they're going to have a child. You don't even think it could be possibly a contributing factor. You wouldn't even grant a contributing factor? No. Okay. What about for the religious? Is it contributing factor for them? I think they're probably not
01:18:00
Andrew Wilsonhaving premarital sex to begin with. Oh, dude. Just because you're religious, right, you could you can still give into temptation, right? Okay. Don't you think that would be a deterrent? I think they're more
01:18:12
Andrew Wilsonabstinent than a lot of secular people. Sure. But wouldn't it be a deterrent? No. No. So, because I don't think a religious person would get an abortion. What the hell are you talking about? What? Because you're religious. The
01:18:24
Andrew Wilsonperson you're dating has to be. I I would imagine if you're dating a religious person, you're probably religious, too. No, that's not the case. Especially not for Christian men. They date secular women constantly. Okay? And
01:18:35
Andrew Wilsonit's a it's a fear they talk about often that, hey, if I slip up and she gets pregnant, she can actually just take out my kid. There's nothing I can do about it. But I want to get which is why they they date less and less secular women
01:18:47
SPEAKER_04trying to move more and more towards Christian women. Doesn't that lower the chance of dating? No, that doesn't. Okay. I I know you want to ask a question. We'll finish up the chats and you can uh ask the
01:18:59
SPEAKER_04question. Here we have Jason Cassell. Oh, really quick, Kaibaka. I don't know if you're still watching on Twitch. It won't let me trigger the gifted subs. I think you sent in 40 uh gifted subs on Twitch. Thank you so much, Kibbaka.
01:19:11
Brian AtlasAppreciate it. We have Jason here. Thank you, man. Appreciate it. Jason Castle donated $100 to the feminist man. You may be one of the dumbest individuals to debate,
01:19:22
Brian AtlasAndrew. You don't know what an is. You don't know what descriptors are. And you said f the logic. You are beyond dumb. You did say [ __ ] the logic. I did. I absolutely did. Why would you say [ __ ]
01:19:35
Raphael Gomezthe logic? Because that's not what I'm here to talk about. I'm here to talk about that red pill people are not dating and I don't think it's helping them. That's what I'm here to talk about. Okay. Well, here let's let's get
01:19:46
Brian Atlasthrough the chats just cuz we have a smoke. Okay. Uh and let's see. We have Jason Cassell again here. Jason Castle donated $100. Andrew will be back. The dumb feminist man. The reason the
01:19:58
Brian Atlasfeminism movement has gained the power it has is because of weak, dumb men like you. Way to go, dummy. You want to respond to Jason? Um, I'm glad that the feminist movement has gained as much traction as it has.
01:20:11
SPEAKER_04All right. Thank you, Jason. Appreciate that. We have uh Chef Dill Pickles coming in here. Uh, thank you for that,
01:20:20
Brian AtlasChef Dill Pickles. Appreciate it. Chef Dill Pickles donated $99. feminist, would you say it's about 13% of the fathers leaving? Uh, the last
01:20:32
SPEAKER_04stat I have is one in four households are uh fatherless. So, that sounds about 25%. All right, we have Ogle coming in here. Uh, Dill Pickles, thank you for
01:20:43
Brian Atlasthat question. Got Ogle. If you guys want to get a chat in, it's uh $100 $99 TT. Thank you. Ogal_glue.net net donated
01:20:55
Brian Atlas$100. Fella on the right is a good heart. It's in the right place, but his brain isn't working properly, unfortunately. Hopefully, today's talk at least gives
01:21:06
Raphael Gomezhim food for thought over the next few weeks. All right, Ogal. Uh, thank you. I appreciate the half compliment. I mean, I'm not a debater, but I literally am here to try to help people get out of
01:21:18
SPEAKER_04depression and get out of the red pill space. That's what I'm trying to do. All right. Uh, we have Ogle. Thanks again. We have uh Stream Rift here. Thank you, Stream Rift. Stream Rift
01:21:29
Brian Atlasdonated $100. Two attorneys, a law firm, and a sitting judge violated the law to intentionally keep me, a dad, away from my disabled
01:21:39
Brian Atlasdaughter. [ __ ] you for blaming men. Eastern District of Virginia. Colon one colon 25 CV572. M I just want to be clear that
01:21:51
Raphael Gomezsucks, man. I I I that sucks. Like you can't be with a child. I don't know the whole situation. I want to be clear. I'm not blaming all men, but I'm saying that you can't blame single mothers when you're not looking at the fathers, too.
01:22:03
SPEAKER_04All right, Stream Rift. Sorry to hear about uh your situation and he included the uh case number two. Uh Lulu here. Thank you. Appreciate it. Lulu donated
01:22:13
Brian Atlas$100. Can this guy debate in good faith instead of resorting to this just my stance? The end. You came on this podcast to debate. So do it. When you
01:22:24
Raphael Gomezcan't defend, when your ideas are challenged, why are you here? You want Okay. Yeah. Um, so no, I came here with an agenda for sure. I'm not the best debater. This is only my second
01:22:36
Raphael Gomezdebate ever. Um, so yeah, maybe I'm I I messed up on some logic, but I am here with an agenda to try to help people get out of the red pill. That's all I'm doing. All right, we have Christopher
01:22:46
Brian AtlasScott here. Christopher Scott donated $100. This dude is such a petulent child. No, I'm not going to answer.
01:22:55
SPEAKER_04Butterfly logic. Quit whining, kitten. You want to Oh, it transl It was It It said It said [ __ ] but it it
01:23:08
SPEAKER_04automatically changes it. I don't know why. Christopher, do you want to respond to Christopher? Uh, nah, you're good. Okay. Uh, can you pop the doors open? And there's a I know you said you were hot. There's an ice pack there for you if you need it or not. No, I'm good.
01:23:20
SPEAKER_04Okay, Mary, just grab that ice pack uh once you get a moment. All right. And then we have some super chats we need to get to, guys. It could It could be I'm red. I have the Asian flush from the whiskey. I think the whiskey might have heated you up. I got the Asian flush.
01:23:32
SPEAKER_04Did Did I get the Asian flush? Well, you're uh Irish, right? Mhm. They're They're kind of Asian. Yeah. Well, they call it the Asian flush. Okay. Yeah. No, I've heard of that. Mhm. All right. We
01:23:42
Andrew Wilsonhave emotional damage. I once knew a guy who talked uh Mary the just on the corner of the table here. Can I read this? Yeah, go for it. I once knew a guy talk like this dummy. He's now divorced
01:23:54
Andrew Wilsonand happily broke while his wife is living in his house and driving his car. He still feels content in his life because he gets to pay her. Can you take that one? Because he gets to pay her
01:24:05
Raphael Gomezhalf of his salary. Lost custody of his kid. Such a proud feminist. Emotional damage. Good to see you in the chat. Thank you. Sad for that guy, but I'm happily married and I don't see that as my outcome.
01:24:17
Andrew WilsonHow long you've been married for? Uh coming up on 3 years together about eight or nine. Congratulations. Thank you. There you go. And may you have many children that your wife can determine whether she wants she wants to abort. We don't want children, but we're not
01:24:30
SPEAKER_04worried about that. That's not Why am I not shock? Are you an anti-natalist? No. No. Okay. All right. We have Lucas here. Uh it looks like there's a string of them. One, what the concept of
01:24:41
SPEAKER_04submission outlined in Ephesians 5:22, wives, submit yourselves to your own husband as you do to the Lord is not pertinent to interexual dynamics. Oh,
01:24:52
SPEAKER_04but wait, only in your small circle, Andrew, that small circle representing 62% of the population of the US population, this guy is a woke clown. But let me guess, Camala voter. Yes. Or
01:25:04
SPEAKER_04did you vote? Definitely. Definitely voted Camala 100%. Sorry, champ. My wife and I vote MAGA unapologetically. Good-looking wife, by the way. Lucas, Lucas is uh, you know, he's he's going
01:25:15
SPEAKER_04to have some good-looking kids. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. See, he's married. He watches the They watch the podcast together. That's good. Do Would you say most of your audience is married? Most of mine is. Would you say I know I heard you say that? Would you say that she is
01:25:27
Andrew Wilsona misogynist? I won't. I don't know anything about her. Is Lucas Let me caveat it. It may not be. Most of them are married, but most of them are in marriageable age and a significant portion is married. Okay. Well, let me
01:25:41
Raphael Gomezask you this. Do you think of the content creators that we're talking about, including the audience here, would you say most of them are married, in a relationship, or would you say the majority aren't of the viewers? Yeah, I haven't pulled them. I wouldn't know. Do
01:25:53
Andrew Wilsonyou have like I'll go ahead and grant probably the majority of them probably aren't married. Why would that matter? I'm just or in a relationship. I don't know. I haven't pulled my audience. I mean, we're kind of about to reach a threshold soon where most of the population is not going to be married or
01:26:06
Raphael Gomezin a relationship. But the whole point that I'm trying to make is that I think Red Pill content is furthering that divide because it makes people not want to date. Actually, I wanted to let me just finish the chat. But just if you
01:26:18
SPEAKER_04want just write a note and we'll we'll get it in. Oh, wait. I need to finish Lucas's. Hold on. Ogle. I'll come back to that one in just a moment. Let me finish up Lucas's. Uh, so sir Simple,
01:26:28
SPEAKER_04can you square this circle for me? I'm a happily married redpilled Christian nationalist MAGA voter. So based based uh so is my wife. So is my wife by the
01:26:39
SPEAKER_04way on each of the preceding fronts. And yet according to you he's a I'm a radicalized miserable incel loner misogynist. Do you want to respond to
01:26:50
Raphael Gomezthat? I would love to. The studies show that most people who consume red pill content are becoming isolated, angry, mad at women and they're dating less. You are an exception. Could you say the same about like feminism though? Which
01:27:02
Andrew Wilsonof the studies show that? By the way, all the ones I gave you. The case of misuse of evolutionary psychology and online manosphere communities. Yep. The case for female uh all of them. All three things I just
01:27:15
Andrew Wilsoncited different studies. Yeah. Can you tell me though? You didn't you didn't put in who the people were for the studies because often times you can click I'll send you the electronic file if you
01:27:26
Andrew Wilsonwant. Have you heard Have you heard of what's called publishing bias? Sure. Let's not trust stats. No, no, no. It's not it's not about that. Listen, like, hear me out here, okay? Um, there's something called a the
01:27:39
Andrew Wilsonreplication crisis. You ever heard of that? The replication crisis? No. When you go back to redo sociology studies, the vast majority of them can't be replicated. Okay. The vast majority. And that would be psychology and sociology.
01:27:52
Andrew WilsonWould you say that these studies that you gave me are mostly sociological? Yes. Okay. And would therefore suffer from the replication crisis and that would mean that there's a good
01:28:04
Raphael Gomezpossibility that up to 60% of what you just gave me here will never be replicated. I think when you have so many studies saying similar things, I don't think that's an issue. I also think that you can grant that most of the red pill community are potential
01:28:17
Raphael Gomezlike incelss is a there's a ven diagram of people in the red pill. But that's where publishing bias comes in. Hold on. Mhm. In the red pill community, incelss are a big part of the red pill community. What is What is an incel? Someone who's involuntarily celibate,
01:28:29
Andrew Wilsonmeaning they can't have sex, even though they'd like to. Okay. So, they can't get a hooker. I I guess. But maybe they don't want to. Maybe they want a real They're not involuntarily celebrated. Do you not believe in incels? So, they're not involuntarily. Well, I just I'm asking
01:28:42
Andrew Wilsonyou a question. Why are you ask You're asking me a stupid question. Do you not believe in incels? Can Can an incel buy a hooker? Sure. Okay. Then you say they don't want to potentially. So, how are they involuntarily celibate? You think
01:28:54
Andrew Wilsonthey should buy a hooker? No, I'm asking how they're involuntarily celibate because they can't get someone to date them, Andrew. But that wouldn't be I'm sorry. What does celibacy mean? This is the same [ __ ] you do. What are we
01:29:06
Raphael Gomeztalking about? If you don't acknowledge that incelss are real, just say that, but don't try to play this game. Don't play debate club with me. Don't play debate club with me. Debate clubbing nothing. I'm making debate club. No, it's not. See, semantics are a big
01:29:18
Andrew Wilsondebate club thing. Semantics are part of debate. Do you believe that incelss are real? Do it's hard to say. Depends on what you can't just say yes. It depends on what you can't just say yes because
01:29:29
Andrew Wilsonthis is what you do. I will say yes or no if you just clarify for me that an involuntary celibate is a person who just can never get sex no matter what. That's typically the definition. Yes.
01:29:40
Andrew WilsonOkay. Can these people get prostitutes? Can they buy prostitutes? Who knows? You don't you don't know if they can. I maybe they don't have money. I have no idea. Oh, okay. Do incels exist? By that
01:29:52
Andrew Wilsondefinition, not my definition. Do incelss exist? Well, it depends. Well, depends. Do incels exist? From my definition, this is some [ __ ] game. My definition or yours? Anyone's definition? Just Bro, I don't know why
01:30:05
Raphael Gomezyou don't understand what semantics are. I don't understand why you can't answer the question. I don't need to be walked through it. I don't want to play your game, dude. I'm not playing a game. Yes, you are. Do incels exist? Oh, not by your definition. I have no idea if incelss exist. How could I even admit to
01:30:17
Andrew WilsonOh my god. Okay, let me ask you a question. Do lifippados exist? Not that I know of. Wait, wait. What's a leaf flipadoo? Who knows? Then how the [ __ ] do you know if they exist or not? Have you read a study on inflipados? Well,
01:30:29
Andrew Wilsonwhy would that matter? Okay, I did. Do leaf flipados exist or not? Okay, Andrew, and what I mean by leaf flipadoo what I mean by leaf flipadoo is you have a proprietary definition. Okay, you can't.
01:30:42
Andrew WilsonSo this this is what's called equivocation. It's facious argumentation. It's called debate club. That's what you're doing. It's called debate club. Are you in a debate? I didn't think so. I think we're having a discussion. No. Why? Because we're having a discussion about red pill. You sat down before the show, didn't she? An
01:30:56
Raphael Gomezexcellent. We're having a discussion about red pill. But now you're saying that red pill communities don't have incels, which is complete [ __ ] Well, they don't exist in your world. Not what I said either. You're trying to get some stupid definition that doesn't exist. Listen, I'm trying to explain this to you. No, you're not trying to do
01:31:09
Andrew Wilson[ __ ] Avoid the question. When you're done, I'll explain. You're not trying. No, I don't need to be explaining. Well, I'm going to explain it anyway. So just so that you understand definitionally things can be here's debate club 101 everybody if you want to be in the debate club listen everybody because this is super important right super
01:31:22
Raphael Gomezimportant incelss don't exist in a debate incels don't exist by the way we're in a debate all you incelss out there it's not true all you incelss I'm sorry doesn't believe you exist he doesn't think you exist well when when you're done I'll explain I'm not I'm
01:31:35
Raphael Gomezdone but I'm not going to so I'll explain so if if you're an incel in No if you're an incel doesn't think you exist he thinks you should just go buy a hooker. Just FYI, which would definitely Which Wait, Andrew, just go ahead. Which if he could buy a
01:31:48
Andrew Wilsonhooker, by his definition would make you an incel. So, how this works is if somebody has a definition of something is proprietary, right? I don't know what he means by the thing he's asking. So, I asked him, does that just mean you can't
01:32:00
Andrew Wilsonget sex under any circumstances? Yes. Okay. Can they buy a hooker? Yes. Well, then they can't they can get sex under some circumstances. So, don't stop. Stop, bro. So, by your logic, they wouldn't be incelss. Now, if you have a
01:32:12
Andrew Wilsondifferent definition than that and you want to give it to me, I'm willing to engage with it in good faith. You're not arguing in good faith. This is a complete and utter bad. You're not You're not making an argument at all. I'm saying incels exist and you're saying, "Well, what do you mean by
01:32:24
Raphael Gomezincel?" Yes, it's important. No, it's not important. It's proprietary. Definition proprietary. No, it's not important. You're making it important. It's not. Okay. The fact that you deny that incels exist is so silly. That's not what I did. Hold on. Okay. So, let
01:32:37
SPEAKER_04me read a couple chats and if you guys want to continue talking about that specific thing, we will. Ogle, thank you for the gifted 50 memberships. Thank you so much, man. Really appreciate it, guys. W's in the chat for Ogle. He just gifted 50 to the uh whatever community.
01:32:50
SPEAKER_04Thank you, man. Appreciate it very much. We have a couple chats here coming through. We have Ogle, speaking of ogle_glue.net donated
01:33:01
Brian Atlas$100. It wasn't meant to be a dick. I appreciate people who have good intentions and act on them. There's just the road to hell is paved for a reason is all I'm saying. Thanks, Ogle. And
01:33:14
Raphael Gomezhonestly, man, I really am here to try to help as many people as I can. That's really all I'm here for. I'm not here to win a debate and, you know, be in debate club. I'm trying to really help incels and people in the red pill community who feel lonely and depressed. But Andrew
01:33:26
Brian Atlaswants to play definition. Yeah, I know. Terrible. I want you clarify what you mean by things. No, you want to play a definition game. 17 years. Seven lawsuits filed against
01:33:36
Brian Atlasme. Grandparents filed. Three protection orders. Three false arrests. Untold thousands of dollars. I won, but it almost killed me. I don't blame guys. He
01:33:49
SPEAKER_04sent one in earlier, right? Was this the same guy who included the case number? No, that was rifted. Uh, well, it seems like there's somebody ghost. He had another poor experience. I assume this
01:34:00
Raphael Gomezis related to divorce proceedings, child custody proceedings. Uh Ghost really started to hear that. Same. And honestly, man, I appreciate that you fight for your children. That's all I'm asking for is that men who want to be with their children, they fight for it.
01:34:14
Andrew WilsonI'm sorry it's so hard. That it shouldn't be that hard, but that's all I'm saying should happen should you have a child. It shouldn't be so hard. It shouldn't be. I don't think so. Okay. I You know what? Great. This is a great
01:34:25
Andrew Wilsonred pill talking point. Wait, let me let me Okay, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. They also they also don't believe that it should be so hard. And so they're fighting tooth and nail, especially um
01:34:38
Raphael Gomezyou know, men's rights advocacy, MAS, men's rights advocacy group, so that it's not so hard. That's one subsect of the red pill community. But again, as we established, the red pill content creators that we're talking about promote uh promise. Well, you only
01:34:51
Raphael Gomezmentioned two. Uh I mentioned three. Who? Andrew Tate, Fresh and Fit. This podcast This podcast does not promote promis. I'm trying to avoid it cuz I like Brian. No, no, no. This podcast does not promote promiscuity. Okay. I
01:35:03
Andrew Wilsonwould like I need It doesn't promote marriage. Yes, it Well, I You do. But I'm not saying you do. Well, wait a second. I'm sorry. I thought it was was about dating. Your whole TW wasn't enough about dating. Does it need to
01:35:14
Andrew Wilsonpromote marriage? It doesn't promote marriage. Does it need to? I You don't think people should get married? That's fine. I should Well, should the dating podcast promote marriage? I think so. The date the dating podcast should promote marriage. I think so. Yeah. I
01:35:28
Andrew Wilsonthink that isn't that the point. But you can't ask questions. You can't ask questions about abortion. Isn't that the point of dating? Why do you date if you're not going to try to get married? Why do you date if you're not going to try to get married? There's a lot of people who want to get who date without getting married. Yeah. Tons. Okay. But
01:35:39
Andrew Wilsonshould you? I don't think so. Okay. Well, then shut up. But don't you? No. I think I think people should get married if they want to get married. That's what I think. Yeah. So then they should be able to date without getting married? Sure. If they'd like to. So then what are you even bitching about? I'm not
01:35:52
Raphael Gomezbitching. I'm saying that this podcast Fresh and Fit [ __ ] [ __ ] Andrew Tate, Fresh and Fit. And I'm sorry, Brian. Brian doesn't believe in marriage and these people and you're you're promoting. Neither do you. You don't
01:36:04
Andrew Wilsonbelieve it either. Yeah, I don't. I just got married. You literally just said, "I think people should get married if they want to." Okay. Oh, great. So, is that a promotion of marriage? They should get married if they want to. Is that
01:36:15
Andrew Wilsonpromoting marriage? Is it? Sure, Andrew. And answer my question. Is are you promoting marriage by saying, "Hey everybody, you should get married if you want to." It's not not promoting marriage. Well, this I
01:36:28
SPEAKER_04tell you what, it's a lot less than what I promote. I'm not saying you me a staple of this show. Here, we'll get We got a couple more chats here, guys. Almost done. We got Jason Cassell. Oh, boy. Okay, here he goes.
01:36:41
Brian AtlasJason Castle donated $100. I would keep an eye on your wife. Even feminist women really want real men. Unfortunately for you, you are a feminist, so you will probably be okay
01:36:53
Raphael Gomezwith it because you don't want to tell her what to do. I'd love Jason to uh define what a real man is. So, if he can send in another $100, a real man is a guy who sends in another $100 or champagne pop. That that's that's an
01:37:06
SPEAKER_04option. You know, maybe a little liquor for Jason. A real man sends in a champagne pop. Little liquor. Maybe uh I don't know if it'll get things a little more aggressive. And then I'll make sure that he doesn't get any. You're You'll
01:37:18
Brian Atlasdrink You'll pound the whole bottle. He'll pound the whole All right, we got Red Fox here. Thank you, man. Thank you, Jason. Good to see you, man. Red Fox donated $100. Thank you, man. If your goal is to convince people away from Red
01:37:30
Brian AtlasPill, why don't you just talk to Andrew and thoroughly think through your position. Instead, you divided the audience. You seem like an useful idiot. I would love to talk about just the red
01:37:42
Raphael Gomezpill, but Andrew puts conversations into all kinds of different things. We'll talk about abortion. We're talking about single mothers. We're talking about all this stuff even though I'm trying to pull people out of this. So, I'm I'm trying to give a justification for red
01:37:53
Andrew Wilsonpill ideology. And one such justification would be that women have reproductive control which could create incentives for men to not want to be with women in modernity. Now, you
01:38:04
Andrew Wilsonliterally told me that is in no way, shape, or form cuz I asked you five time wrote it down five times and you said that if that is in no way a contributing factor. Do you think right now anybody should ever take anything you [ __ ]
01:38:16
Brian Atlassay seriously after you said that? Yes, absolutely. Okay. Because I'm trying to help people get out of this thing. You're just trying to keep people divided. Christopher Scott donated $100. Thank you, Christopher. Appreciate. You're not here in good faith. You won't
01:38:28
SPEAKER_04answer questions. You whine about everything and act like a child. Man up. You want to respond to that or No. Okay. Uh Christopher, thank for the soup chat. We have Lucas here and then we'll get
01:38:40
SPEAKER_04back to the uh debate portion. Lucas, uh, pink hatwear, I have an honest question for you. You say you have a podcast of female guests geared towards helping men. Do you truly believe right
01:38:50
SPEAKER_04of center men align with your positions or is your target audience white dudes for Camala? Genuine question from Lucas there. I appreciate the genuine question. Um, I only started a month ago, but I've gotten over a million
01:39:03
Raphael Gomezviews and I've gotten a lot of messages from people who are in red pill and they say, "You're giving me hope that all the stuff that they say out there about a man has to be six foot tall, a man has to make six figures, a man has to have six-pack abs, those are the only guys
01:39:15
Raphael Gomezthat women want." And the women I interview are definitely, especially the the married ones are saying that isn't the case. So, a lot of people a lot of people have said, "Thank you so much. I
01:39:26
Raphael Gomezappreciate it." fathers have reached out to me and said, "Hey, I appreciate what you're doing. My sons are going to watch your videos because I really hope they don't go down the red pill rabbit hole." So, it has nothing to do with left. I'm
01:39:38
Raphael Gomeznot a political person. I mean, I am personally, but my podcast has nothing to do with politics. It really is let's help these guys see that women aren't the, you know, paras that podcast in the red pill space make them out to be.
01:39:51
Andrew WilsonYou're talking about Blackpill descriptors. I'm talking about people who listen to Red Pill content. Yeah, I know. That's not what even even the guys that you stated, Tate, all those guys, they don't say that that's all women want. What they say is that if you want
01:40:02
Andrew Wilsonto heighten your chances for dating the type of woman that you want, right, you would work on male self-improvement and here's things that you could do to do that. That is not what they say. They say you should if if women only want high status men, that's what they say.
01:40:14
Andrew WilsonNo, they don't say only either. Yes, they do. Okay. So, listen. Do you understand that? Like if you work at a [ __ ] Starbucks as a woman and you're dating a janitor, he's high status to you, right? What? Yeah. Did you hear what I said? If
01:40:28
Andrew Wilsonsomeone's working at Starbucks and they're dating a janitor, that man's high status. Yeah. If he's making $29 an hour as a [ __ ] janitor and you're a barista, he would be high status, right? I I don't know that they'd see it like that, but Okay. Okay. Well, how do they see it? You tell me. They see it as
01:40:41
Raphael Gomezlike, I like this guy. I don't want to date him. I think that's what they see. Okay. No. No. How do these Red Pillars see it? They see it as no one who works as a janitor will get a woman. No, they don't see it that way. Yes, they do. No,
01:40:51
Andrew Wilsonyou're totally You're totally wrong on this. No, I'm not. So have I. Who? Which ones? The people who write me. Are you talking about the content creator? I'm talking about the people who follow this [ __ ] Yeah, I'm talking about the content creators you're talking about. I'm talking about the actual people who
01:41:03
Andrew Wilsonlisten to it and they write me and they say there's no way a woman would date somebody who works at McDonald's. And that's not true. And they listen, I don't know what these individuals are telling you. Talk to the individual. I'm telling going to tell you what the content creators are saying. Okay. And
01:41:16
Andrew Wilsonby the way, I also watch what they say. Okay. Well, here's here's what they say. Here's what Myron Gaines would agree to. And I guarantee you Andrew Tate would agree to it. I guarantee you that that both of those guys would and I know Brian would as well. Okay. They're
01:41:28
Andrew Wilsontrying to say that of course men should work on male improvement. That doesn't mean that you're all women on planet Earth are only going to want you if
01:41:38
Andrew Wilsonyou're in the top 1% or the top 15%. That's [ __ ] absurd. You can watch If that's absurd, then tell me why every red pillar I come across believes that. They don't. They do. They don't. Every red pillar I come across believes that.
01:41:50
SPEAKER_02You know what? Show me a message. I'll show you. Go through my Tik Tok. Just go to my Tik Tok right now. Scroll through my comments. No, no, no. Just show me a single DM. I didn't say DM. I said comments. Oh, in the comments. Yeah. So what? So what? That doesn't count. People Red Pillars can't comment. Red
01:42:03
Andrew Wilsonpillars can't Oh, yeah. No, you're not sure. You're not sure they can write the words. The words aren't there. Trying to answer. No, you're not. You're not. I'm not I'm not sure that it's legitimate. No, because that it legitimately comes
01:42:13
Andrew Wilsonfrom Myin Gaines, who would not tell you that a janitor can't date a woman at Starbucks? That's [ __ ] crazy. would never say it in a million years. I know the guy. He would never say that [ __ ] I'm telling you that when I ask women,
01:42:26
Raphael Gomez"Would you date someone under 6' tall?" Every guy in there says, "That's just not true. That's just not true. That's just not true." Because they believe the [ __ ] that they're seeing from this stuff. That's [ __ ] It's not [ __ ] It's true. And this is the point I'm trying to make. Every guy who listens to Red Pill, let me tell
01:42:40
Raphael Gomezyou something. The fact that you don't care about these [ __ ] guys is the problem. You don't care about these guys. Andrew, let me tell you something. Do you think there's a problem with man male on the lives in this country? Yes. Okay. Do you what are you doing about it? Well, I mean, the first thing I did
01:42:52
Andrew Wilsonwas advocate an anti-war position because PTSD is what led to a lot of the unliving stats. That's some of the stats, but there's other people that aren't in the military that question. What was your question? What do you do to help these people? And do you think
01:43:04
Andrew Wilsonthat advocating for an anti-war stance that doesn't help people? When someone has what happened, let's say there is no more war and people still have PTSD, what do they do? Well, they get treatment. Okay. So, you believe in treatment for PTSD. There's lots of
01:43:18
Andrew Wilsonmen's groups which are good for treatment. Do you believe in treatment for severe depression in some cases? What cases wouldn't you advocate for it? It depend it would depend on the criteria for severe. What how how what what do you mean I
01:43:31
Andrew Wilsoncan't get out of [ __ ] bed in the morning and all they think about it is unaliv. Yeah. Like the incels 95% of them report that you may have to have medical. No, they don't. 95% don't report that they can't get out of bed in the morning. 95% report depression.
01:43:45
Andrew WilsonYeah, of course you do. cuz you don't give a [ __ ] about people. You don't care about people on literally not true. Do you believe in therapy? In some cases, therapy can be helpful and in other cases it [ __ ] people up. Okay. What
01:43:58
Andrew Wilsoncases is therapy messing with people? Well, so psych Okay, let's get into it. Psychology is the study of the mind. Can you tell me what is the disease process for you to diagnose a person with a psychological disorder? I don't know, but I do know that because it [ __ ]
01:44:10
Raphael Gomezexists. So what that doesn't mean therapy doesn't work. Okay. How does it work? Have you looked into the studies about CBT? Uh CBT like the marijuana stuff? No, that's CBD. What is CBT? You don't know about cognitive behavioral
01:44:22
Raphael Gomeztherapy? No. What is it? Well, then what is it? It's one of the most successful versions of therapy that have helped a lot of people get out of depression. Okay. What does it do? It's a talk therapy that basically shows cognitive study of the mind. It's not a study of
01:44:35
Andrew Wilsonthe mind. Yes. Well, it has to be because No, it's talk therapy where talk therapy doing what? to help you get elevate your mood and get you out of bed. And could you go with like, I don't
01:44:47
Andrew Wilsonknow, an instrument and do a little test on a guy and be like, "Oh, your depression level was here and now it's here." Do you know how people answer my question and then ask me a question? Do you know how people typically and then
01:44:59
Raphael Gomezask No, because that's not how it's tested. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Because it's not how it's [ __ ] because that's not how it's tested. You said answer the question and then I could say. So here I am saying that's not how it's tested. Yeah. Because it's not a disease.
01:45:11
Raphael GomezDepression is not a disease. No. This is why I know that out there if you're depressed, Andrew doesn't give a [ __ ] about you. It's not a disease. Andrew doesn't give a [ __ ] about you. If you're depressed, it's not a disease. It's just something in your head. I will bet you $100 right now. You can get your cell
01:45:24
Raphael Gomezphone look up if depression is actually a classified disease. For the record, if you have if you have depression, if you have depression, Andrew doesn't care. It's not a disease. Cognitive behavioral
01:45:34
Andrew Wilsontherapy doesn't work. Is it a disease? Bet. 100 bucks. Yes. Okay. Then then go grab your phone. No, I'm not grabbing. You're not going to bet? No. Cuz it's not a [ __ ] disease. So people aren't there. If you're going to like talk to
01:45:46
Raphael Gomezthe audience this camera, if Andrew if you have severe depression, Andrew doesn't care if you get help. He doesn't He doesn't think you should get help because it's [ __ ] Because depression isn't real. By the way, depression is not a real thing. It's not
01:45:58
Andrew Wilsona disease. It's not a disease. So that means you shouldn't get it treated because it's not considered a disease. So okay. So I don't understand. How do we get from depression's not a disease and that
01:46:10
Andrew Wilsonmeans that depression doesn't exist? You don't believe in the treatments for it. No, no, no. What I was trying to demonstrate to you is that psychology is a study of the mind. And because of this, you can actually do interventional treatments on people which do more
01:46:22
Andrew Wilsondamage than good. Because tell me a study that it does more damage than good. Do you know what? So you want psychologists to start studying in their
01:46:31
Andrew Wilsonown field where 60 70% plus of the studies can't be replicated and govern their own field by telling you that the studies that they're making are bad. Therapy isn't real to Andrew because you can't replicate it. Therapy is [ __ ]
01:46:44
Andrew WilsonYeah, psychology is therapy is [ __ ] I asked him if he thinks therapy is realology is [ __ ] I I said I asked him if therapy is real. He said some instances now it's [ __ ] The real truth comes out. There can be there can be therapeutics that work. Yes. But therapy by and large in and of itself as
01:46:56
Andrew Wilsonan occupational is [ __ ] and psychology is [ __ ] Yeah, there are several studies that show the improvement. There's several studies that are done by the same people who are studying the mind. If you're depressed, Andrew doesn't care about you. I just want to point that out. I don't
01:47:08
Andrew Wilsonunderstand. Do what? When did I say depression is not real? You don't care about the treatment. Yeah. When did I say that? I didn't care about treatment. You don't because you don't believe it exists. Do you know that you can treat uh depression with things like uh
01:47:19
Andrew Wilsonhormone replacement therapy? That's one avenue. Yes. Yeah. I don't understand. Um, if I would recommend that you would you would do things like hormone replacement therapy under the guide of an actual medical doctor, right, who
01:47:31
Andrew Wilsondidn't get a [ __ ] arts degree in psychology, by the way, but an actual MD, right, who gives you something like hormone replacement. That stuff is truly effective for treating this type of stuff. There can be hang on there can be
01:47:44
Andrew Wilsonlimited instance of men's groups which seem to help with PTSD and things like this but by and large psychology is a [ __ ] croc of [ __ ] Go ahead and demonstrate for me why it's effective. Okay. So if you have severe depression
01:47:56
Raphael Gomezmaybe get some hormone therapy. That's what Andrew is recommending instead of going to seek out a therapist. Read a book. What's the cure rate for the severely depressed? CBT has significantly
01:48:07
Raphael Gomezimproved people with severe depression. CBT has how many? I don't have the study in front of me, but it's significant. How much? It's significant. Just like you said earlier, you said earlier significant. That was that was an
01:48:20
SPEAKER_02acceptable answer before too. Of course you do, cuz you don't think you don't you don't care about people with severe depression. You don't care about people with severe depression. You don't give a [ __ ] You don't care about them. So many people in the red pill community have severe depression and you don't care. So
01:48:33
Andrew Wilsonmany people in the red pill community have severe depression and you don't give a [ __ ] So I you have to understand how illogical this is. How much it doesn't make sense. Yeah. Because it's all [ __ ] Me saying that you should be guarded in the treatment of psychology means that I don't care about
01:48:45
Raphael Gomezpeople. I have depression. Can you explain that logic to me? You don't care about the treatment. You don't believe that the treatment is real. And you think the only thing they should do is go to hormone treatment therapy. And also you think that PTSD
01:48:58
Raphael Gomezalso you think that people with PTSD it kind of works there. But if you have severe depression as an incel, it won't work there. Yeah. It didn't say that either. That's what you're saying. You know, you're just straw manning me. Sure, I'll straw man till you correct
01:49:08
Andrew Wilsonme. Okay. So, anyway, so are there alternative therapies which can you can recommend? You don't even know what CBT is. So, what therapies do you know about? CBT is the most popular, by the way. Okay. Yes. So, what? So, you don't
01:49:20
Andrew Wilsonknow what the [ __ ] you're talking about? Okay. So, help me out here. What is psychology? It's a study. It's a study. Yeah, it's a study. Okay. Help me out here. Why is
01:49:32
Andrew Wilsontherapy [ __ ] I didn't say therapy is [ __ ] Okay. What I was talking about was psychology being [ __ ] There can be
01:49:41
Andrew Wilsontherapeutics, I said, which work a thousand times I've said this. There can be therapeutics which work. Which ones? But if you're talking about therapists, which ones? Well, for
01:49:53
Andrew Wilsonespecially for people, so the ones that I'm familiar with are people have PTSD and there seem to be therapeutics which work inside of these like uh groups who've gone through very similar experience and them being able to
01:50:05
Andrew Wilsondiscuss and uh form communities around these types of things. But I but I'm not sure that it's because of the discussions as much as it is about the
01:50:14
Raphael Gomezcommunity they're forming. So, what is your solution for the vast number of people who consume this content that are reporting severe depression?
01:50:25
Andrew WilsonUm, well, I I don't I first of all, you haven't demonstrated that's the case. You just say here's some studies, but No, that's not enough. Well, you I'd have to read the studies.
01:50:37
Raphael GomezAre men unaliviving themselves at an alarming rate? Um, what is that? Cheers. Oh, thanks. Yeah, that's you. And that's a concern for you or no?
01:50:48
Andrew WilsonYeah, it's a big concern. But you don't believe therapy? Uh, well, no. I didn't say again for the hundth time. Some therapeutics can work for some men who are in severe depression. But you know
01:51:00
Andrew Wilsonwhat causes a lot of this. What I asked you this question earlier and I've just in a good faith way answered a ton of yours. Can you answer this one for me now? What's that? Men who get divorced,
01:51:11
Raphael Gomezwhat happens to their unaliving rate? Yeah. a lot of men who get divorced and I you know it I get it and I feel for those men and I hope that they get the help they need but you don't care if they get help they need but why would they need to get help if they didn't get
01:51:24
Andrew Wilsonmarried didn't get divorced well people get divorced that happens yeah I but not if they don't get married then they don't get divorced okay great now it don't when they get
01:51:34
Andrew Wilsondivorced the primary reasons that they report this depression is that they lost custody of their kids right sure yeah but I thought that women having control
01:51:45
Andrew Wilsonover men's kids didn't have anything to do with why men didn't want to get into the dating market. That's not the reason people aren't dating. No. No. You don't think that a big contributor? That's not the reason people aren't dating. So, the
01:51:57
Andrew Wilsonreason you think that people aren't dating and marrying is because they men are terrified that women will divorce them and take their kids. No, I don't think that's the reason they're not dating. You don't think so? No. And you don't think that's why they're not getting married? No. Oh, okay. Because
01:52:11
Raphael Gomezcollege educated people are still getting married. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. Is it that most men? It's a good percentage, but it's not. Okay. It's a good percentage of women. Yes. But they're getting married to somebody. I Yeah, but women are marrying somebody, aren't they? I men. But women are marrying somebody, aren't they? Just cuz
01:52:24
Raphael Gomezyou're a woman in college doesn't mean you marry a college educated man. Okay. But that's still people who are college educated are still getting married more, including women. Nobody said include. So, if women are marrying somebody, you disputed this. If women are marrying somebody, they're marrying men. Your
01:52:37
Andrew Wilsonconcern I thought you were a big marriage advocate, right? Yeah. Mhm. Don't you want marriage advocated for? I want people who really want to get married and find love to do it. Yes. So when So you think that these men who
01:52:49
Andrew Wilsonordinarily would be playing into the dating market trying to find a wife are not concerned whatsoever that she's going to divorce him and take his kids. I don't think that is the main reason people are aren't dating. No. Okay. Then
01:53:01
SPEAKER_02what's the main reason? I didn't say dating. I said marriage. You have to get date to get married, Andrew. Yeah. No, I'm asking about marriage specifically. You have to date to get married. Isn't that a big deterrent? You have to date. Do you have to date to get married? What does that have to do with my question?
01:53:14
Andrew WilsonThe question is you said, "Why aren't people getting married?" It's like, well, I'm talking about they're not dating. It's juice. It's It's strawberry lemonade. [ __ ] garbage. Strawberry lemonade. So, anyway, back to this. I'm
01:53:24
Andrew Wilsonasking about marriage, not about dating now. Okay. Marriage. Why do you think men do you think that a lot of men don't want to get married? because they're afraid that there could be a divorce and
01:53:36
Raphael Gomeztheir children taking from them in the future if they get married. No, because I think if they're dating I think if these people are dating, they're likely to eventually get married should the relationship progress. I don't think they're just staying cohabitating the way you you're suggesting. What do you
01:53:50
SPEAKER_04want, dude? I don't know what you want. Put the the waters in frame. Okay, here you go. Is that part of the thing? It's just, you know. All right. Yeah, go ahead. It's his OCD. It's my OCD. Sorry.
01:53:58
Raphael GomezGo ahead. So, anyway, back to this. What I'm saying is that I think that if people are dating, the eventuality, should the relationship go well, will be
01:54:09
Raphael Gomezmarriage. People aren't dating. That's the whole point. So So, okay. So, I don't think if you're dating, you're not going to say, you know what, I can't marry you because I'm afraid you're going to take my kids. That's why I don't think that's happening. So, you
01:54:21
Andrew Wilsonthink that they would rather stay cohabitating? No. No. I I think if you're dating somebody long term, you're probably going to end up getting married. But you're going to cohabitate first usually, right? Sure. Yeah. And
01:54:32
Andrew Wilsonwhat is the number one indicator of unaliving in men? Cohabitation. That's the reason people are are it's it's you unal alive way more than if you're married, right? If you're
01:54:44
Andrew Wilsoncohabitating, unal alive significantly more than when you're not. So what's your point? My point is is that your prescription, which is more dating, more dating, more dating. And then I ask you, does that lead to more cohabitation? You say yes. It would actually be your
01:54:56
Andrew Wilsonprescription that led to more men unliving. So men dating is the reason people are unating. No, it's men cohabitating which is dating too. That no you just said that that would be the big side effect which you're fine with. Okay. So in order for men So my
01:55:10
Andrew Wilsonprescription would lead to less unaliving of your prescription more. What is your prescription? So I think if men are dating that they should not cohabitate and that's what red pillars think too cuz they actually care about men unaliv. Red pills are going their
01:55:23
SPEAKER_02own. Do you know about men going their own way? MGTTOW is different. They're also red pill. By the way, MGTTOW 100% doesn't want cohabitation. I'm not saying they do. They're going their own way. That's another part of the red pill community. So, they're pushing do not
01:55:35
Andrew Wilsondate. Well, if it's the case that you think dating leads to cohabitation before marriage and their prescription doesn't lead to that, then they're saving a lot more [ __ ] lives than you. Good one, Andrew. Right. Yeah.
01:55:47
Raphael GomezYeah. Me advocating for people to date is is going to make people unalign themselves. No. Oh, if you think that dating leads to cohabitation and you're fine with cohabitation. I also don't grant that that's the reason most people aren't enving themselves. So, I'd like
01:56:00
SPEAKER_04to see a study on that. Yeah. Well, actually, I can send those to you. Please do. Yeah. What's your number? I'm not going to say it on air. Look in the camera. No, go ahead. Here, let's uh do a little
01:56:12
SPEAKER_04prompt change here. Um, and we'll maybe try to move through these a bit quicker. Uh, so Raphael, you said that the manosphere exploits male pain and by extension, I suppose you would say
01:56:23
SPEAKER_04Andrew exploits male pain, but offers no real healing. Um, can you just specify uh how I guess? Yeah. So, um, a lot of Andrew's rhetoric and and content that
01:56:35
Raphael Gomezhe pushes is basically again demonizing women, demonizing feminism, which makes a lot of the men less willing to date women. And that's why a lot of people in the red pill community are not dating
01:56:47
Raphael Gomezwomen because they act actively see them as adversaries. They actively see them as the enemy. And I think a lot of red pill community uh pushes that that message. Just just one clarifying question. Even if that is what he was
01:56:58
Raphael Gomezdoing, can you just um just for the prompt, can you just explain how he's exploiting male pain? Yeah. So I think the more riled up and anger angry that the audiences are, the more money people
01:57:10
Raphael Gomezmake. That's what I that's how I think that's the exploitation. I make the most amount of money during chill streams. Okay. But it's normally angry men and that follow these podcasts. Well, I thought you just said the angrier they
01:57:22
Andrew Wilsonare, the more money I make. Right. Okay. What? Because keeping them angry, they're going to stay around longer. Okay. So, um let's uh do you think do you think that uh like Joe Rogan for
01:57:34
Andrew Wilsoninstance that he makes all of his money off of angry men? Not necessarily, but I'm not here to I'm not talking about Joe. Well, I'm just I thought you just said that you make more money if the audience is angry. The red pill
01:57:46
Andrew Wilsoncommunity. Oh, it's specific to the red pill. Okay. So, just to make sure that I got this right. Um, I'm doing this. I think you are. I think fresh and let's start with me because I'm here. Okay.
01:57:58
Raphael GomezSo, what am I doing that's riing up men and making them upset? You continue to demonize women and that gets your audience. Do I demonize women or do I demonize feminists? Both. Okay. How do I demonize women? You say some pretty nasty things about them and I've watched
01:58:11
Andrew Wilsona lot of your podcast and if you're going to deny it that's fine but yeah about Okay. So I'm not going to deny that I crack jokes sometimes at the expense of women joke at the expense of
01:58:21
Andrew Wilsonwomen. That's true right but no I I I really don't demonize women as a group. Do you call women a lot of names on your
01:58:30
Raphael Gomezpodcast? Uh I call usually a woman. No. Do you call groups of women names? Some like feminists. Yes. No. That's not a name. That's not a derogatory name. At least it is to me. Well, of course it is
01:58:42
Andrew Wilsoncuz you hate feminism and you continue to demonize it and you continue to demonize women and you continue to demonize women on your podcast just like Fresh and Fit just like Andrew. Do you think if men agree with me about the
01:58:54
Andrew Wilsonideas that I have, right, that they want to date feminists? I don't think they want to date women. Yeah, they definitely want to date women. They're not. And they're married. A lot of them are married. Maybe on your individual
01:59:06
Andrew Wilsonchannel, but not on this podcast. How am I riing up [ __ ] a bunch of men to knock? Because you also come here. You also come here and this is a bigger audience than your channel. Yeah. And they guess where they move to my channel. Yeah. The angry men
01:59:18
Andrew Wilsoncontinue to move over to your channel. Oh, okay. Where all the married men are. Not all the married men. Yeah, that's where Listen, show me the breakdown of people. Show me the breakdown of people in your podcast that are married. I bet you right now you're about to see a
01:59:29
Andrew Wilsonmassive sound off of fever. See it. All married people. Switch over to the live chat. Watch this. Yeah. put it up. We could do a poll. Um, let's see if there's a Now, this is be This would be the whatever sample
01:59:42
Andrew Wilsonthough, but we could do it on the Crucible and I guarant [ __ ] tear you. I also don't necessarily think that your your poll is going to be accurate, but go for it. Well, I agree. I like literally I do agree with that. But the thing is is like YouTube has much better breakdowns.
01:59:55
Raphael GomezYeah. So, yeah, if you would ask me, I would have actually sent that before the debate. But that's what I'm saying. I think Fresh and Fit has that breakdown. I think this podcast has that breakdown. I think Andrew Tate has that breakdown. And I can tell you they're probably not married people. Yeah, I demonize mostly feminists. You demonize women, too. You