Andrew Wilson vs. Woke Male Feminist Hater | Whatever Debates #17
Date: 2025-05-16
Duration: 5h 42m
Brian AtlasIdentified Speakers
SPEAKER_00Brian Atlas(host)
SPEAKER_01Andrew Wilson(guest)
SPEAKER_03Raphael Gomez(guest)
Key Moments
00:00:13
IntroBrian introduces debate format
00:01:22
Key MomentRaphael's opening: red pill is poison backed by peer-reviewed research
00:39:00
ControversyRaphael says 'f*** the logic' when pushed on child support justification. Brian and Andrew react with disbelief.
01:31:00
ControversyAndrew tells Raphael to 'shut the f*** up.' Most heated moment.
02:56:00
Key MomentRaphael concedes: if Christian ethics helps depressed men, he's fine with it
03:38:30
AgreementBoth agree to Round 2 debate
Topics Discussed
00:04:00
Red Pill Definition
Andrew: red pill is descriptive data packet. Raphael: it's defined by its biggest creators (Whatever, Fresh & Fit, Tate).
00:32:00
Red Pill and Male Mental Health
Raphael cites studies linking red pill to loneliness/distress. Andrew challenges replication crisis. Cohabitation vs marriage suicide rates.
00:41:00
Feminism and Single Motherhood
Andrew: feminist ideology dismantled marriage. Raphael: men abandon children (95% of custody uncontested by fathers).
01:42:00
Therapy and Psychology
Raphael advocates CBT. Andrew challenges psychology's 60-70% replication failure rate.
02:18:00
Masculinity Definition
Raphael: healthy masculinity is expansive. Andrew finds definition circular. Major meta-argument about debate methodology.
03:24:04
Closing Statements
Raphael: red pill not for everyone, seek alternatives. Andrew: opponent offered no coherent prescription.
03:29:00
Post-Debate Roast
Military draft, historical female oppression, natalism. Raphael reveals he is 41, married, deliberately child-free.
Transcript
Page 3 of 6
02:00:08
Andrew Wilsoncall women all kinds of names. I've heard it myself, especially on solo podcast. Why is it though that I have so many female followers? You have so many. I actually do. Yeah. What's the percentage? About 10% for my channel. Whoa. Do you do you know that YouTube is
02:00:21
Andrew Wilsonis male dominant? Red Pill is male dominated. No, no, no, no. YouTube So, Tik Tok is female dominant. Okay. It's like um I think 70% women. Okay. Right. YouTube male
02:00:33
Andrew Wilsondominant. Okay. Having a channel, right? Like most women's audience is men on YouTube. Okay. The the fact that I have
02:00:42
Andrew Wilsonso many female followers is actually not common for a male podcaster. It's actually not common. Well, good for you. But I'm saying that most of the red pill community is not that way. Okay. But you were Who are we talking about? I'm talking about the red pill community.
02:00:55
Andrew WilsonYeah. What am I doing though to exacerbate this problem of men hating women? I I've already explained that. Yeah. Not really. just say sometimes I I crack jokes about them. I didn't say anything about jokes. You said jokes. I said you demonize women. Okay. Well,
02:01:07
Raphael Gomezhere's the thing, too. I crack jokes about Mexicans. Yeah. Am I demonizing? Your audience could be pretty racist, too. I encountered them firsthand in our first debate. Am I
02:01:17
Andrew Wilsondemonizing them? Mexicans? Um, well, if you're if you're riing up hate for Mexicans in your chat, then yes, cuz I got a lot of Mexicans in my chat. Okay, good. But if I'm making Mexican jokes,
02:01:29
Andrew WilsonI'm saying jokes. You keep saying jokes. No one else is saying jokes. They're literally jokes. They're literally jokes. Show me. Tell me anything I've said about women. Think of a name. Think of a name you've
02:01:41
Raphael Gomezpossibly have called women. Think of any name you've possibly have called a large group of women. Just think about it. A large group or all women. Is there a comma after large? Like are you are you
02:01:51
Raphael Gomezsaying I'm saying like women? No. What what's the word? I'm saying women as a whole as as a generalization. What? I'm I'm asking if you've done it. I I mean, nothing comes to mind. Okay. Well, I
02:02:05
Andrew Wilsondon't Well, I've said what? I just don't think this is in good faith. Well, what why don't you say what you think? Yeah. What What did I say? I mean, you call them [ __ ] You call them No. Oh, yes you do. No. Oh, yes you do. No, no, no.
02:02:16
Andrew WilsonIn fact, [ __ ] is not a word I say often. I'll call individual women skanks. Okay. I don't actually say [ __ ] Oh, skanks. That's such a funny joke. Yeah. And No, no, no. That's not a joke to call an individual woman a skank. You don't do
02:02:27
Andrew Wilsonit individually. I do when I say skates. I guess I do your show. Then give me one time. Did Okay. What? I said you call them [ __ ] I don't. Okay. I So I say all women are [ __ ] You've said it before. It's never happened. I didn't
02:02:40
Andrew Wilsonsay all women. I'm saying [ __ ] You just say [ __ ] Saying the words are [ __ ] So if there's two women and they both [ __ ] 100 dudes, I can't say they're [ __ ] Sure.
02:02:50
SPEAKER_02Sure. How is that demonizing women? Is it saying nice things about women? No, it's saying mean things about those two people. It's not talking about two people, Andrew. You generalize. You
02:03:01
SPEAKER_02generalize about women so much. And the fact that you won't even admit about Bro, you're generalizing. And so do Why are you calling men incels? I have studies that back up that they're incels. Oh, you
02:03:13
Raphael Gomezhave So So do I need a study to back up that a chick who's banged 100 dudes a [ __ ] No, you're talking about one person, but you're talking about generalizing all women. That's something you do constantly. That's something that Fresh and Fit does.
02:03:25
SPEAKER_02They generalize women. I'm [ __ ] right here. Tell me what I've said about all women. The point is I'm talking about the red pill community. I'm talking about the red pill community. I'm talking about and I did and I've already said what you've done, but you're
02:03:37
Andrew Wilsondenying it for some reason. When I've ever said all women, do you want to go through all your damn podcasts, man? You think if I did it, you'd have an example since it was pertinent. I've seen you do it. So, yes. When? I don't know. Two weeks ago. Andrew, what the [ __ ] I've
02:03:50
Andrew Wilsonwatched a lot of your [ __ ] Mhm. I've seen so I I've so much I'll tell you what, this is fair. What type of content do I do? Mostly political.
02:04:01
Raphael GomezMostly political. Yeah. Okay. And what is the number one type of show that I do? Um, you do debates, but you all I say the topic you debate the most, if it's not Christianity, it's feminism. So, you
02:04:14
Andrew Wilsonthink the most popular content on my channel is debates? I think so. Okay. followed by political commentary. Sometimes you have political debates as well. We had a political debate. Yeah, I know. But you just said political. Most of my channel is political commentary. I think you consider yourself a political
02:04:28
Andrew Wilsoncommentator. That's what you say every time you introduce yourself. Well, I No, that's not what I say. I say I'm a political commentator and what? I don't know what the and is. I political satist. Sure. Politics, as I said.
02:04:39
Raphael GomezPolitical satist. Okay. So, am I wrong about being polit am I wrong about you being more political focused? Is that Are you Are you making a different point or No. No. What I'm saying to you is I
02:04:49
Andrew Wilsondon't actually think that you've watched my show. I have. I've also been on, then what is the thing my show is the most famous for? The one show that we do that is the most famous thing we do. Isn't it
02:05:01
SPEAKER_02debating? Nope. Not even in the same universe. Then what is it? It's the Tik Tok invasions. That's YouTube. Yeah. That's what made us popular. But that's maybe that made you popular at one point, but that's not what you're doing
02:05:13
Andrew Wilsonconsistently. Every week you're mostly doing debates. Every week. Listen, I do I actually many weeks do less debates than I do invasions. Okay, my point still stands. And by the way, political
02:05:24
Raphael Gomezcommunity do you deny that the red pill community is demonizes women? Yeah, but I want No. No. Ask question. I will. I will. No. No. Answer it now. No. No. No more caveats. No. Does the red pill
02:05:35
Andrew Wilsoncommunity demonize women? Yeah. Yeah. No, but I want this. No, it doesn't. No. Okay. No, I don't think so. So, I I want to finish this real quick. Um, have you actually watched my show? Yes. When when's the last time you watched it? I
02:05:47
Andrew Wilsondon't know, but this week I obviously saw what you said to Pearl. Obviously saw what you said to that guy on the iPad. Yeah. Well, you couldn't have seen that on my channel. You saw you de you. So, you saw it in her channel, right? So, did you demonize red pill
02:05:58
Andrew Wilsoncommunities this week on your channel or not? Uh, I I might No, I don't think so. When you call them degenerates, I don't think I called red pillars degenerates. You literally said red pill content
02:06:09
Raphael Gomezcreators are degenerates, including Myron Gains. You even said you had disagreements with Brian. You even mentioned Brian by name in that same statement. Do you remember when I said that there's a difference between the
02:06:20
Andrew Wilsonred pill and what? No, I don't. Content creators. You mentioned Myin and Brian by name. Yeah. So, I'm talking about content creators. Those are content creators. That's not the red pill. The red pill is a
02:06:31
Raphael Gomezdisen content creators are degenerates. You're not talking about the packet being a degenerate. You're talking about the creators, right? So, the creators are degenerates. So, you mentioned Myron Gaines and you mentioned Brian by name.
02:06:44
Raphael GomezI didn't. Yeah. So, here's the thing again. If you're talking about Red Pill content creators, there's a lot more of them than [ __ ] Brian. But we're talking about the big ones. I don't care about the other ones. We're talking about the big ones. The ones that have the most We're talking about the ones
02:06:56
Andrew Wilsonthat have the most reach, and that's these people. They have the most reach. Okay. What matters is who's informing their opinions? The content creators. No. No. Who's informing the content creators opinions? I don't care. The content creator matters. No, they're disseminating the message. That's what
02:07:09
SPEAKER_02matters. What matters? They're disseminating the message. you're not getting it doesn't they're disseminating a message. I don't care if you learned about Nazism through something else. If you're disseminating it, you're still disseminating is that if there's
02:07:19
Andrew Wilsonhundreds hundreds and hundreds of Red Pill content creators, which there are, all you're doing is pointing to three creators you don't like, the biggest ones. No. First of all, the combination of all other Red Pill creators would be bigger than these three biggest ones.
02:07:32
Raphael GomezOkay. Sure. But they're the biggest ones. No, they're not the combination of the message that you're talking about. Then why did you highlight those two? It's not the biggest. Then why did you highlight my games? you did on your own show. We can pull it up right now. I'm not talking about I'm not talking about Pearl. I'm talking about when you were
02:07:46
Raphael Gomeztalking to that guy on the iPad. You said your sound's low. If you don't remember, it's cuz your lack of sleep, but you were talking to a guy. I think it was on Tuesday on your own show. You said red pill content creators are degenerates. I don't I don't know what
02:07:58
SPEAKER_02the context is. You It's literally that there is no context. Of course you're trying to weasel out of this. Of course you're trying to weasel out of it. [ __ ] what I know. Do you want to pull it up? Actually, I do. Okay, let's go to his channel. What show is it? whatever you were talking to that guy on the iPad,
02:08:10
Raphael Gomezwhoever that homie was that you were talking to. I don't know who he was. I don't I've never seen him before, but you were on the show. I think it was Tuesday and you said this exact thing. I would love this. Yes, it was on the Crucible. I would love to show this. I
02:08:23
SPEAKER_04would I would love to have this pulled up. Show it. Can we pull it up? Is it behind your payw wall? I don't I don't think so. I saw it and Well, if somebody in the audience
02:08:35
SPEAKER_04can send us the clip of it, you want me to do it? Yeah. Uh, sure. While we're doing that, Mary, can you pull up? We did the poll. We had We had
02:08:43
SPEAKER_042,200 people answer the poll. Uh, are you married is the question. 38% 38% say yes. 62% say no, just cuz you guys were curious if the audience was married.
02:08:56
SPEAKER_04That's actually more honest than I thought it would be. 38%. All right. Here, I'll read some chats while you're looking at that. We have, and guys, if you want to get a chat in $100 for a
02:09:07
SPEAKER_04TTS, if you want to get a little message in here while we're getting that pulled up, we have Lucas. Oh, wait. It's two Lucas donated $100. What was your first
02:09:16
Brian Atlasone, Lucas? Two/ dot dot my old man, OMD/PhD in biology. Very much a red pill man. Everything that is bandied about these days in the red pill community, I
02:09:28
Andrew Wilsonheard from my old man some 25 years ago. almost verbatim. Yeah, I don't know what he's talking about with this [ __ ] but I can't get a logical argument out of him. He just makes emotional appeals. Lucas,
02:09:39
SPEAKER_04was your first message via YouTube super chat? Cuz I don't see the first one, but um thank you for that. Did you find it? Not yet. We We'll give him time. We got
02:09:49
Brian Atlaschat. Jason Castle donated $100. Hey chat, is it too Andrew and maybe Brian not a real man? Feminist men like you. Pretty simple. Just kidding, Brian. Damn, that's crazy, Jay. Damn, Jason.
02:10:01
SPEAKER_04What the [ __ ] Uh, is the TTS a little too loud, chat? Let me know if the TTS is a little too loud. We have Lucas with his followup. Thank you, Lucas. Thank you, Jason. Appreciate it. Chat, is it too loud? Let us know if it's too loud.
02:10:15
Brian AtlasWe got another one coming in here in just a sec. Okay, Lucas donated $100. Thank you, Lucas. Three/ dot dot. Of course, like a young,
02:10:25
Brian Atlasdumb, naive 20-some year old bluepilled [ __ ] like yourself, I completely ignored the old man until I learned the hard way. Do you want to respond to Lucas? He called you. I'm I'm not scroll through it, but do you remember this
02:10:38
Andrew Wilsonconversation? Yeah. Do you know how long ago that was? A couple days ago. Two years ago. Okay. So, does this says two days ago for the record? Yeah, it got the clip got posted two days ago, but the conversation was from two years ago. You're so your channel posted a clip
02:10:51
Andrew Wilsonfrom two days ago where you said red pill communities are degenerating. I don't know. I don't even know if that was said. I'm just explaining to you that that's a really old conversation. You can play the audio on. I'm trying to find the date of the time. It's a long clip obviously. I think Well, I think it's two years ago or maybe a year and a
02:11:03
Andrew Wilsonhalf ago. I'm not sure. Yeah. Rick Rickus Morty, but I'm pretty sure it's not from from the last year. Well, while you're while you're looking for that, we have Charlie B. Can I send you the link?
02:11:13
Brian AtlasDonated $100. It's more people today are medicated. More people today are in therapy. Thank you, Charlie. How is it working? Explain the difference between
02:11:23
Raphael Gomezanxiety/depression and the felling of the human condition. Okay, so yeah, we're definitely seeking more help than we ever have, which is why it seems like we're overly medicated, but it's because people are actually like trying to get
02:11:35
Raphael Gomezthe help for the first time. Anxiety is more a general worry about the future. It's this very general thing. And depression is more of a general overwhelming sadness that is is more
02:11:46
Raphael Gomezthan just the emotion. It's like you literally can't function in society. You just feel absolutely down. All right. Yeah. It's really interesting to me that the real Terry donated $100. Thank you,
02:11:57
Brian AtlasReal Ter. A good chunk of Andrew's viewers are redpilled men and women, and he does more for his audience than 99% of creators out there. Watch his reverse grift streams as one example.
02:12:11
Andrew WilsonYeah. He has no idea. He's never watched the show, right? I just pulling up a clip that from the show you said, right? Yeah. You watched a clip that from from how long ago? Two days ago. I'll just read from two days ago on this. Lucas,
02:12:23
SPEAKER_04do I mean I got posted two days ago. You are creating a straw man character of what the red pill is. As Andrew said, the intellectual godfather of the so-called red pill, Roamasi is in a 30-year marriage with a 20some year old
02:12:35
SPEAKER_04married daughter. For that matter, I would consider my Oh, he continued it on. Oh, he he continued. Okay, so the super
02:12:47
SPEAKER_04chats that were marked two and three is following this super chat, the ones that came in through Streamlabs where he said, "My old man uh is very much a red pill man." And then three. Yeah, thank you, Lucas. Appreciate that. Sorry for
02:13:00
SPEAKER_04the confusion there with the ordering on on these. Appreciate your support, man. Why don't we swap the chair? Mary, can you just get a chair? Cuz his your chair is a little squeaky. swap a chair. Uh, while we're He's trying to find this.
02:13:11
SPEAKER_04CBT is BS. When I first noticed I had issues doing things I enjoy, I turned to the VA. Psychology there used CBT and told me to just go out and do the things
02:13:19
SPEAKER_04I enjoyed. There's nothing about how to do it. I'm not 100% uh PNT PNT disabled because of this worthless crap. Brian S, thanks for the YouTube super chat, man. Really appreciate. Brian, I'm sorry for
02:13:32
Raphael Gomezthat experience, but I highly recommend a book called uh Feeling Good by Dr. David Burns. It's a really good book on CBT and it's something you can enact on your own before you even seek therapy, but it is something that I highly
02:13:43
Andrew Wilsonrecommend you read. All right, Raphael, we're going to swap chairs cuz this chair has been a little bit squeaky. Yeah. So, crazy to me with all this treatment available that when people were coming back shell shocked from world wars, they were unaliviving
02:13:55
SPEAKER_04themselves less than they are right now at your age. Here, just pass it to her. Okay. Uh, here we have Joe. But true. Joe, thank you for the super chat. Appreciate it.
02:14:05
SPEAKER_04Just a blank one. Appreciate it. Uh, we have Guy Sneeden. If you tuck that in, I don't date because three foes are trash. Conservative women are hard to find. Brian and Andrew are awesome. Guest,
02:14:17
SPEAKER_04give your blue-haired wife my number. I'll show you what I'll show what a real man is. Do you want to respond to Guy Sne in here? Uh, and does your wife have blue hair? Uh, she doesn't. She has blonde hair. Beautiful blonde hair. But
02:14:28
Raphael GomezI will say that um the fact that you're calling women 304s indicates that you're probably single. Um, and I doubt you could pleasure a woman. Wow. Guy
02:14:40
SPEAKER_04Sneeden says, "You're probably signal incapable of pleasuring a woman. Incapable of getting her." Okay, thank you. Uh, Guyen, if you want to respond, we got scurby. Exactly. Emotional appeal
02:14:51
SPEAKER_04after emotional appeal. Yeah, I'm here for an emotional appeal. This guy has been making emotional appeal after emotional appeal, but can't back it up with logic. In fact, he said, "Foggic." Uh, that's where he lost the
02:15:03
Raphael Gomezaudience. He won't answer questions. Dude, you know that guys are bent towards logic. So why don't you make a effing argument? The argument is a lot of red pillars are isolated. They're angry. They blame women and they're
02:15:15
Raphael Gomezdating less. I'm trying to help them stop doing that. And Red Pill content is pushing them further down the rabbit. Erroneous. Erroneous. It's not erroneous. It's literally factual. That's a That just so you know, that's
02:15:26
SPEAKER_04still not actually an argument. That's just a statement. Well, it's a true statement. Well, but it doesn't tell us anything. Uh, we got to get back to it. So, were you able to find it or I'm going to move
02:15:37
Raphael Gomezon to No shock. You couldn't find it. It's there. Andrew, if you give me another 10 minutes. How about that? We're in the middle of a No, he's he's saying this [ __ ] like trying to weasel out of it because he doesn't You know what, Brian? He doesn't want you to hear it. That's the reason. He doesn't want you to hear it. Well, you're a
02:15:50
Raphael Gomez[ __ ] degenerate. He doesn't want you to hear it many times. I've told him to his [ __ ] face. He's a degenerate. So, you don't deny that you said red pill. Hold on, dude. So, you don't deny that red pill content creators are degenerates? Do you know what a degenerate? You just said it. You just
02:16:03
SPEAKER_04said it, bro. Do you know what a degenerate is? I I have premarital sex. He thinks I'm a degenerate and red pill content promotes that. You also promote it. You're a [ __ ] degenerate. Okay,
02:16:14
SPEAKER_02I'm a degenerate. Wait, are you against you? But I think red pill people are. So, what I'm saying, you don't believe in red pill communities. Oh my god. I How many times do I have to tell you this? But he's not You're not red
02:16:26
Andrew Wilsonpillar. I'm not a red pill, but you you you advocate for them. You literally go on their show. I advocate for the red pill, not for red pill. Excontent creator. Myron gains having sex out of
02:16:38
Andrew Wilsonmarriage. [ __ ] degenerate. I've told him that to his face. Stop, bro. My turn. Shut up. Shut the [ __ ] up. And what messages are they promoting? And what messages are they promoting to their audience? When you're done filibusting, I'll And what messages are
02:16:49
Andrew Wilsonthey promoting to their audience? Okay. What message? Go ahead, Andrew. Yeah. Yeah. So here, just so you know, are you going to insult? I've called most of these guys, hey, okay, most of these guys, but especially [ __ ] progressives like you degenerates
02:17:02
Andrew Wilsonbecause all of you who promote sex outside of marriage are [ __ ] degenerates from my view. Have you ever had sex out of marriage? Do you understand that you have sex out of marriage? Oh, so you're a degenerate? I was. Okay, good for you. You saved yourself.
02:17:13
Andrew WilsonYeah. Yeah. Were you Did you have something else there to go with like your little Did you own me? Do you feel like you owned me on that one? Little bit. A little bit. New
02:17:25
SPEAKER_04prompts. New prompts here, guys. You feel like you got me on that? Yeah. Was Andrew Wilson completely consistent again? So, okay. Uh, in your, uh, Tik Tok bio, or this might be on your Instagram, you
02:17:36
SPEAKER_04say, uh, masculinity, dating, and what women actually want, unfiltered, right? Uh, what do women actually want? I don't have a prescription for what women want. I ask them what they want and they tell me. That's all. And I share that
02:17:49
SPEAKER_04information. That's it. I don't tell them anything. I don't prescribe anything. Do Do you Well, okay. I'm not going to um Let's go over some of the other prompts then. You have uh men uh
02:18:01
SPEAKER_04healthy masculinity is expansive, not rigid. Can you just uh define what you mean by that? I guess. Where is that? Where did I say that? It was in one of the You said positive claims I would make in the debate. Healthy masculinity
02:18:13
Raphael Gomezis expansive, not rigid. Can What do you mean by that? Yeah. I just don't subscribe to the idea that there's only one way to be considered quote unquote masculine. So like traditional gender roles, you would say uh traditional generals, you can be masculine and traditional general, but I think if
02:18:27
SPEAKER_04you're not, that doesn't necessarily mean you're less masculine. For example, if your wife makes more money than you, I don't think that makes you less masculine. Okay, Andrew, the So the the positive claim he makes is healthy masculinity is expansive, not rigid. Is
02:18:39
SPEAKER_02that something you want to bite on or Yeah, but you have to get into semantics. I don't want to get into semantics that I can't get a position. No, because for for the sake of the conversation. Will you get into semantics? I hear what
02:18:52
SPEAKER_02you're saying, but do me do me a solid. But I get I get Are you Are you my homie? I We're homiesomies. We're homies. But what I'm saying is Andrew has these does these tactics, man. It's not about No, because but he's doing bad faith arguments, bro. Strawberry. I
02:19:05
Andrew Wilsonappreciate it. But he's doing bad faith arguments. He's doing bad faith. I haven't even made this. You will. I know you. So, I'm gonna make You're mad because I'm about Stop me from preemptively making an argument. Okay, let's let's get into
02:19:18
Raphael Gomezit. Okay, let's do some answers. Do you like the lemonade, by the way? I just want to know what you mean by masculinity. What does that mean to you? Um, I don't have a solid definition. My general definition of masculinity, and it's very loose, is basically men doing
02:19:31
Raphael Gomezthe right thing because it's the right thing. And it's not the best definition because I don't think masculinity can be so defined. What? That's That's my definition. men doing the right thing because it's
02:19:42
Andrew Wilsonthe right thing. Correct. What's the right thing? Um, protecting people, being good to people. That's what I think is masculine. Protecting people and being good to people. Mhm. Okay. But what does good to people mean? What does that mean? I'm not getting into
02:19:56
Raphael Gomezmorality. I'm not doing I'm not even getting That's where it goes. That's where it goes, Andrew. That's where it goes. No, I'm just asking what this what this means. I gave you my definition. Move on. Provide your definition. Provide whatever it is you want to do.
02:20:09
Andrew WilsonYeah. So, I can give you my definition of masculinity, but you haven't given me yours. I did. Go for it. So, it I I just want to make sure I got it right then, and I'm going to write down every word.
02:20:20
Andrew WilsonMasculinity is men doing the right thing because it's the right thing, not for any sort of transaction or reward. Men doing the right thing because it's the right thing. Yes. Now, I need you to
02:20:32
Andrew Wilsonunderstand this. I know that you think that these are sneaky debate tricks, right? Even though I've sat across this table, this, by the way, is the first time ever that I've been in studio and had a a one-on-one debate where it's
02:20:44
Andrew Wilsoneven been slightly heated. And usually we start serious where it's been a 1 v one, where it's even been Well, no, with the two degenerates. That was the only other time. Literally, that was the only other time in a 1 v one where it was even really Never gotten heated. You
02:20:57
Andrew Wilsonnever got heated, dude. It was pretty tame. No, I'm serious. You've never gotten heated. No. What did I just say? Can you even repeat in a 101 debate? It's never been heated. No, no, no. What did I [ __ ] see? You don't even listening, dude. You don't even want to
02:21:08
Andrew Wilsonlisten. This is the only one. He said in this studio this is the only one v one that I can think of where it's even gotten heated. Okay. Yeah, that's the that's the case.
02:21:20
Andrew WilsonAnd usually it's because I clarify everything before we start talking about it. So, we're not talking past each other. Yeah. Cuz you love definitions. It's your favorite thing in the whole world. Dude, how do we know what we're talking about? You know what we're talking about. You just Yes, you do.
02:21:32
Andrew WilsonOkay. Masculinity is men doing the right thing. Okay. Well, I think the right thing is for you to [ __ ] uh I don't know, punch yourself in the [ __ ] dick. Now do it. Great. So, you're So, you're feminine. You're feminine. Okay.
02:21:45
Andrew WilsonPunch yourself in the dick or you're feminine. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Cuz you're feminine. Good point. [ __ ] stupid, dude. You have to tell me what these things mean. Good point. Tell me what it means. What does it mean? What is the right thing? My definition. What is the right thing,
02:21:58
Andrew Wilsonbro? Doing it. Tell me your definition. What is the right thing? Tell me your definition. You haven't told me. Tell me your definition. Uh, I think Tell me your definition. I think that masculinity is when men. Tell me your definition. I just did. Okay. Well, I think masculinity is
02:22:10
Andrew Wilsonwhen men beat up women and kick them while they're down. That's the only way to be masculine. You say that in Jess, but a lot of truth is said in No, it's 100%. A lot of truth is said in chest. You got a lot of truth. A lot of [ __ ] you know, you got to really get in
02:22:23
Raphael Gomezthere. Yeah. Joking like that is, oh, that's coming from a real place from you. That's coming from a real place. That's coming from a real solid place. I mean, I would give you No, that's coming from the soul. Andrew, I'd give you a different That's coming from the soul. You ask me questions. That's coming from
02:22:34
Andrew Wilsonthe soul. Ask me questions. Oh, man. You really You meant that. You meant that. Yeah. And then you got But you got to kick them when they're down. Yeah, of course. Yeah. You can't let the [ __ ] up. Yeah. It's just a joke, right? A lot
02:22:46
Andrew Wilsonof truth is said in the chest, Andrew. Yeah. Is it? Absolutely. Like when you were like before the show started and you were making Kate shows about yourself. Is that where you tried to tell me something? I never once did
02:22:57
SPEAKER_04that. What? Oh, come on, dude. What? Did he just really make that up? just to say some [ __ ] Dude, did I did I miss something? Everybody missed it cuz it never [ __ ] happened. What I'm
02:23:07
Andrew Wilsonpointing out to you, right, is when you're bad faith like this, I'm going to be bad faith back. Okay, go for it then. You've been bad faith this whole time. There's no, bro, asking you
02:23:19
SPEAKER_02bad faith. Asking you about your proprietary [ __ ] definition. I gave you my definition. I'm not going to go into morality because then it becomes I'm not even going into morality. I'm just asking what you ask somebody what good is. When you ask somebody what is
02:23:30
Andrew Wilsongood, is that not morality? They define the [ __ ] thing by what is good. Then I have to ask you what good is. You [ __ ] dot. But that's what I'm saying. I'm not [ __ ] I'm not going to get into morality with you because it's the same [ __ ] every time with you. This is your favorite argument is morality.
02:23:43
Raphael GomezThen what? You should just look at the camera and monologue, dude. I will. I'm not debating. I'm just screaming. I got to prompt change then. Um Well, he doesn't want to define masculinity. He only wants to, you know, pick apart our mind. You haven't even defined it. Sure. You just gave a proprietary definition.
02:23:56
Andrew WilsonIt's your positive claim. So what? Yeah, but I have to define it for him. I defined it. I have to define it for him. I defined it. You didn't, dude. Did he define it? No, he No, it makes satisfied with it. Listen, it's circular.
02:24:08
SPEAKER_02Masculinity is men doing the right thing. That [ __ ] doesn't tell us anything because I don't have a very prescriptive version of masculinity. That is my general. So then it would be to ask follow-up questions about what
02:24:21
SPEAKER_04the right thing is. You don't want to get morality, but you don't want to tell me any [ __ ] answers to any questions. here. Well, if if you don't want to get into the morality, can you say you said it's uh healthy masculinity is expansive. Andrew's got to take a little smoke break here. Little smoke break
02:24:35
Raphael Gomezbecause Andrew thinks masculinity is very rigid. If you don't fall within these guidelines, pretty [ __ ] If you don't if you don't fall, be nice. Come on. If you don't fall within these certain guidelines, it's you're not masculine. That's Andrew's take. Okay.
02:24:46
SPEAKER_04Well, while Andrew is getting a little a little smoke break, we are going to let some chats come through. By the way, guys, actually, you know what? pull up Twitch because we need to do a little
02:24:56
SPEAKER_04Twitch shout out. Guys, go to Twitch. Uh, pull up the actual Twitch tab in the window tab. Guys, go to twitch.tv/ whatever. If you're enjoying the stream,
02:25:05
SPEAKER_04drop us a follow and a Prime sub if you have one. There's 1,100 uh viewers over there on Twitch and I think we got about 9,000 on YouTube. If you guys can just open up another tab, if you have an Amazon Prime account, you can link it to
02:25:18
SPEAKER_04your Twitch. It's a quick, free, easy way to support the show every single month. Fenrris Tempest, thank for the prime. Sally, thank for the tier one. Light Tarot, thank for the uh prime sub.
02:25:29
SPEAKER_04It's been Chino, thank for the prime. Warped, thank for the tier one. Guys, it's been about 2 seconds since the last prime sub came in and I think it got bugged. I think it's bugged, boys. Also, drop us a
02:25:43
SPEAKER_04follow. Follow follow us over there. And then also guys, if you want to support the show without YouTube and Apple taking their cut, you can do so through Venmo Cash App, Whatever Pod. Andrew's coming right back. He just went out for
02:25:54
SPEAKER_04a quick smoke. Also, if you're enjoying the stream, like the video, but Venmo Cash App, whatever pod, 100% of your contribution goes towards us. YouTube
02:26:02
SPEAKER_04takes 30% and then if you're sending a a chat in through uh the YouTube app on an iPhone or iPad or other Apple device,
02:26:12
SPEAKER_04Apple takes 30%. So, if you're sending in a $200 uh super chat, and usually the way you can tell if it's from an Apple device, if it's like $99.99, that's usually the indicator.
02:26:25
SPEAKER_04So, if you send in a $200 super chat through uh Apple or well through an Apple device on YouTube app, they're taking $12 of that. They're taking more
02:26:35
SPEAKER_04than 50% of your contribution for what? Streamlabs.com, streamlabs.com, whatever. We're doing $100 reads and TTS's if you want to get
02:26:45
SPEAKER_04those in. Uh let's see what else. Oh, also guys, join the Discord. discord.gg/ whatever. It's really great. Uh Raphael is actually a longtime member on the Discord. He enjoys all the
02:26:57
SPEAKER_04misogynistic memes that we post there. I'm just kidding. We don't post any misogynistic memes. We post a bunch of feminist stuff on there. Uh shop.whatever.com. If you want to get
02:27:08
SPEAKER_04yourself some merch, be sure to check it out. Andrew has is about to return. All right. Give me a [ __ ] shot. He need Get just bring the bottle of whiskey. Andrew, bring Do you want the bottle?
02:27:20
SPEAKER_04Just drink from the bottle. Get him the bottle. Get him the bottle of whiskey. Uh let's see if we have Oh, we got some chats. Hang on. Hang on. Let me just let
02:27:29
Andrew Wilsonme just try this again. Yes. Go ahead. If if you are talking about something and making a prescriptive ought in this
02:27:40
Andrew Wilsoncase masculinity, right? What what it is and what men should be doing with it. I didn't say they should be. I said that's my worldview. Okay. Your worldview. Mhm. Great. If we dive into your worldview,
02:27:52
Andrew Wilsonright, and you have a proprietary definition. This this definition meets no definition of masculine I've ever seen in my life. I know. Okay. Yes. So, it's proprietary. You agree? Yes. So,
02:28:02
Andrew Wilsonit's perfectly rational and logical for me to go through your proprietary definition so that I can make sure it makes [ __ ] sense, right? I don't care if you think it makes sense. Give me a [ __ ] shot, dude. I can't I can't I
02:28:16
Andrew Wilsongive him the bottle. You want the bottle? How much is left? [ __ ] you probably that chatter, the one chatter is actually right. You might be the dumbest [ __ ] person I've ever debated on this podcast. And you're the most
02:28:27
Andrew Wilsonemotional wreck of a person I've ever seen. You'd be emotional, too, if you're This like arguing with a [ __ ] kindergarter, dude. You don't even know what you're talking about. Can you pass her the You like literally don't know what you're talking about. I don't care. The whole point of the I don't care. The
02:28:40
Raphael Gomezwhole point of the prompt was masculinity isn't a rigid thing, and that's why I keep it very open. Yeah. Okay. It's not a rigid thing, but that doesn't tell us what it is. Okay. All right. Uh let's see here. We have We'll do a couple chats here really, then get
02:28:54
Brian Atlaswe'll get right back into a prompt. We have Red Fox. Thank you, Red Fox. Appreciate it. Red Fox donated $100. Andrew holds a deep veneration for women and their
02:29:05
Andrew Wilsoncontributions traditions deepen feminist. What is the role and duty of women? Back my religion. We venerate the theotokos. You know that would be the mother of God. But you know the thing is
02:29:17
Andrew Wilsonis even though I talk about this all the time, discuss how much we need matrons in society, how important it is, I just hate all [ __ ] women. No, you see them as just breeders. That's what you see them as. Yeah. Well, it's just breeders.
02:29:29
Raphael GomezThat's what he said. Do you think women have any duty to No. No. No. Do men have duties? Sorry. Yeah. No. Yeah. Men don't have duties. No. I think by my definition, they should do the right thing. But that's my belief. That would
02:29:40
Andrew Wilsonbe a duty. [ __ ] adult. Okay, fine. Yeah. So, what what duty? So, they have the duty to do the right thing. Let's let's not do insults. No, let's do insults. What do What is What What duties do men have to do the right thing? That's That's my view worldview.
02:29:53
SPEAKER_04So, they have duties. What women What What duties do women have? None. No. Okay. Okay. We have a couple chats coming through here. We got Where is it? Jordan. It drives you insane. Yes, it does. Drives him insane. Jordan Flores
02:30:05
Brian Atlasdonated $100. Andrew, I'm sorry. As a member of the Mexican community, we don't claim the Fender General Vivo Crucible.
02:30:16
SPEAKER_04Are you part of that? Maybe. I'm half Mexican. You could be Puerto Rican. You could be I'm half Mexican. Okay. But I would imagine the he's apparently Jordan
02:30:26
Raphael GomezFlores is the representative of all Mexicans who've ever lived. He works on the consulate. Yeah. No. Um he absolutely is probably another one of these single people that are angry. So
02:30:36
Brian Atlasit's fine. Okay. I mean you're married and seem pretty angry between the two of us. I'm the one that seems angry. Andrew between the two of us 100 times the women you have. So his
02:30:47
SPEAKER_04sample size is far greater. Shouldn't you defer to that then since you love moo studies so much? Shout out. You've interviewed a lot. Two I think 2,000. Jeez. 2000 when I know that's a lot.
02:31:01
SPEAKER_04That was kind of misogynistic. And I've been here. What have you learned? I've been here for like half of that. By the way, why did you Why did you say G's when I interviewed 2,000? I'm just saying that's a lot of That seems a bit misogynistic. How so? It just seems a
02:31:12
SPEAKER_04bit like wow, you had to talk to 2,000 women. I'm just surprised at the sheer number of women you've talked to. No, the way it came the way it came across. Sure, but I'm explaining was it it was
02:31:23
Raphael Gomezlike I'm sorry that you had to. It wasn't that. I'm just asking you what you've learned in those 2,000 interviews. What have you learned from them? Yeah. Not a lot about women? Not much. No, just kidding. I've learned a
02:31:34
SPEAKER_04I've learned a lot. Yeah, I've learned a ton. What have you learned? Share share something. Ask me at the end of the show and I'll tell you. I don't want to I shouldn't be too involved in the convo. Hey, you donated
02:31:45
Brian Atlas$100. The red pill isn't the problem. It's a symptom of a larger issue where men have had negative experiences with modern women and are still villainized. We find solidarity in our collective
02:31:56
Raphael Gomezawakening. Thank you. Hey, you. This is exactly what I think is an honest assessment of what happens. I said in my opening statement that red pill communities prey on men's rejection.
02:32:07
Raphael GomezThey prey on men's anger. And I think that's true. And I think they do find community in Red Pill. I really do. And I think that's why they flock there. But I don't think it's effective for them. I think it's keeping them lonely, isolated, and angry, and they're not
02:32:20
Andrew Wilsondating. So, if it's not working, let's look for an alternative. That's all I'm saying. Here, let's get into that. What's the alternative? That's what we've been trying to get into this whole time. You're trying to do some other [ __ ] semantic definition. Okay.
02:32:30
Andrew WilsonOkay. Listen, me asking you what masculinity is and you're saying fulfilling the general societal good [ __ ] is meaningless. It is meaningless. Okay? Because I didn't come
02:32:43
Raphael Gomezhere to necessarily to talk about that. I came here to talk about the Redfield community is destroying men's world. Debates are about world views. No, debates. You play debate club and I'm not here for that. Dude, it's not debate club. You try to win debate points. Like
02:32:56
Andrew Wilsonthere's some judges out there. That's what you do. You're not trying to have a real conversation about [ __ ] Yeah, I agree that I want my worldview to win and I want my worldview to win a debate. But the thing is is like I don't even know what your worldview is cuz you can't explain it. So your worldview is
02:33:09
Andrew Wilsonthe red pill is working for men. Is that your worldview? Well, that's what we're here arguing. Okay. If you want to do an eternal critique of Christian ethics and my worldview, I'm happy to do that. We came here to talk about the red pill and
02:33:22
Andrew Wilsonmanosphere community. Yes. And so when you're asking me about the red pill, what have I told you it is? You said it's a data packet. Yes. And so I can utilize and Christians can utilize this
02:33:33
Andrew Wilsondata packet as well, right? And we can introduce it through Christian ethics in a prism that helps men, right? Only through Christian ethics. That's what I would prescribe. Yeah, but most people in red pill communities aren't Christian
02:33:46
Raphael GomezOrthodox. They don't have to be Christian Orthodox. Well, the point is, is the red pill community helping men or is it hurting? Hold on. Is it Is the red pill community helping men or is it hurting them in your opinion? Ultimately, I think it's more helpful
02:33:57
Raphael Gomezthan it's bad. Okay. Yeah. But I would like to know what the alternative is. Turn off the red pill. At least for now. That's the only thing I What's the alternative to it, though? Um I don't know. Consider trying to ask a girl out.
02:34:10
Andrew WilsonUm maybe. Yeah, they never thought of that. They're not doing it, Andrew. Yeah, dude. Bro, you literally just said with that chatter. Yeah. That you agreed with his definition of what it was, what the problem was. I didn't say anything
02:34:21
Andrew Wilsonabout definition. Hang on. Hang on. That the way he said the problem was, which is that they had bad experiences with women. Correct. That means they're asking them out. Not necessarily. Then how are they having bad experiences with women? Maybe they're not getting success on dating apps. I don't know. That doesn't necessarily mean they're going
02:34:34
Andrew Wilsonup to women in the street and asking them out. So they're so so they're they're having issues approaching women. Yes, they're having issues dating with women. Yes, men feel rejected. So, what's the alternative? The alternative is hopefully more uh positive content
02:34:47
SPEAKER_02coming out. I hope my channel helps. I hope other channels help. It doesn't It's not telling me anything. What's the alternative? I don't have the definite alternative, but I think the red the point is the red pill community is hurting men. The red pill community is
02:35:00
Andrew Wilsonhurting people. That's all I'm talking about. But you said you were here to discuss the alternative. I didn't say when did I say I was here to say I literally just wrote down alternative because you said right I have an alternative. I said seek out alternative. What's the alternative? I
02:35:12
SPEAKER_02don't know but there's not the red pill. If it's not working get away from it. If it's poison stop taking it. That's the first [ __ ] step. Would you agree? Not a single alternative. If you're taking like I said there's positive masculinity
02:35:24
Raphael Gomezpodcast out there that I would recommend listening to. Whoa. Really? Wait. Positive masculinity. Okay. What is that? Um, not the rigid sense that the red pill uh prescribes. Anything anything counter the red pill. Anything.
02:35:36
Andrew WilsonOkay, I'll just call it blue pill for the sake of your stupid definitions. I'll call it blue pill. Blue pill. The opposite of red pill. How about that? Okay. Well, what are they saying? They're saying don't take the red pill. That's what they're saying. Okay, got
02:35:48
Andrew Wilsonit. So, let me ask you a question. This is a a cool red pill talking point. I wonder if you can refute it. Do you think that um that men care about body count? I think some of them do. Yeah.
02:36:00
Andrew WilsonWould you? No. No, you wouldn't care. I wouldn't. If she had [ __ ] 20,000 guys if I loved her, I wouldn't care. You wouldn't care. 30? There's no number. If I love somebody, I don't care. I don't
02:36:10
Raphael Gomezcare. Yeah. What if she had sucked 20 guys dicks at once? Do you think that's going to change my answer? I'm just curious. I've already answered it. If I cared about somebody, I don't care. No matter what. Correct.
02:36:22
Andrew WilsonAs long as I don't have an STD, I don't care. Do you think it's a legitimate preference that men have that they don't want women with high body counts? I think any preference is legitimate. If somebody has a preference, they have a preference. So, so do you think that that's a legitimate preference? Sure. I
02:36:35
Andrew WilsonI said any preference is legitimate. Remember when I said that? And then what do you think most men would consider a high body count to be? I have no clue. I don't I have no clue. How would I know that? Okay, fair enough. Do you think
02:36:46
Andrew Wilsonthat most men would maybe consider 10 would probably be pretty high? Not necessarily. No. Not in 2025. No. You don't You don't think so? I don't. You don't think that that men would have
02:36:58
Andrew Wilsona preference against being with a woman who's [ __ ] 10 different dudes before them? Some men would, but not all men. Yeah. So, the men who would find that revolting, what do you think they should do in 2025 when you just said there's
02:37:11
Raphael Gomeznot very many women who haven't had that? Find I didn't say there's not that many women that haven't had that. I'm saying that that isn't necessarily body count for some people. I didn't say every woman has that body count. You didn't say every. Well, then they should find somebody that doesn't have that
02:37:23
Andrew Wilsonbody count. That's what they What if Okay, but what if it's the case that an overwhelming majority of women have that body count? Then men are [ __ ] out of luck, I guess. Is that what you're saying? So, how are
02:37:34
Raphael Gomezyou helping them? I'm saying that I don't think that's the case. If that is the case and men don't want to change their preference, then they won't find anyone today. So, you're So, you're saying that if they have a preference against this, that they should just
02:37:46
Andrew Wilsonchange their preference. I didn't say that. So, what should they do? If they if if every woman is disqualified, then they're not going to date.
02:37:55
Andrew WilsonSo, so if if it is the case then that promiscuity increases in society, which that's what the trends are showing, you at least agree with that. Promiscuity, the trends show that that has been
02:38:08
Raphael Gomezdrastically increasing over the last I said I don't think it's that drastically different than it was when we were in college. So, no. Okay. You don't think that you you don't think like of has increased since you were in college? It
02:38:20
Andrew Wilsondoesn't necessarily mean they're banging a bunch of other dudes. Porn has been around for a long time. Yeah, but the the thing is is the individualized form of it has not. Yeah, but they're often with their own partners and stuff, so it doesn't matter. No, they do
02:38:32
Raphael GomezBGV been around for a long time. You remember all them? Like it's been around. Not even close to the same rates, dude. Okay. It's been around. Do you ever think we've been in in a situation like with Zoomers where it
02:38:42
Raphael Gomezcould be as as many as one in 10 women do porn ever? Okay. Ever? Like [ __ ] ever. Okay. Those are OF people. That doesn't mean general women. There are
02:38:54
Raphael Gomezaverage people get married every day. Andrew, it's not marriage is decreasing. But it's still average people get married every day. Even if they're listen, it happens. So people are finding these people that aren't alive. I agree that you should be going for
02:39:06
Andrew Wilsongood marriages, but here's where our problem. you should be going for good marriages. But here's my problem. My problem is is when we get into the preferences of men, when you say we should be looking for alternatives, let's have alternatives to red pill for
02:39:19
Andrew Wilsonmen who have preferences. I disagree with you and I think body count matters to men in a big way. To some men, yes. Yeah. And I want to know what you would tell those men to do. What would you tell them to do? Um, if they're
02:39:32
Raphael Gomezreligious, they probably can find somebody in their church that doesn't have a high body count. I'm sure they can meet people when they're young and in college because like college people are dating and get married. There's probably younger women out there that if you date them, there's a lot of people that get married. What about the 30-y
02:39:44
Raphael Gomezolds? They're not all I mean they're they don't necess not all women have high body count. So I don't But you make it sound like they do because that's still like your your stick. That's what that's what you do is make men think
02:39:54
Andrew Wilsonthat all women are, you know, you're just saying that don't you don't you think that by the time most women are 25, they've had at least three sexual partners at least by the Maybe three. Maybe three. At least three. I'll grant
02:40:07
Andrew Wilsonthree. At least three. I'll grant three. Yeah. So So at least three. I don't say at least. I'll grant three. You'll grant three, but you won't grant five. I can go to five. Okay. Five. And don't you
02:40:18
Andrew Wilsonthink that once you start getting into those numbers, we're we're in like high body count territory for a lot of men. It depends on what their preference is. I have no idea. If their preference is that they don't want a woman who slept
02:40:29
Andrew Wilsonwith five men before them or had and remember this too, a lot of these times you're sleeping with these these women are sleeping with these men. They're long-term relationships, right? So, you think that if men have legitimate
02:40:41
Andrew Wilsonpreferences against all that baggage, right? You think they should be alone? No. I think they should find somebody that doesn't have that baggage if that's what matters to them. Do you think you think that there's enough of those out there for the amount of men? I do. You
02:40:53
Andrew Wilsondo? And you think that those women want those men? I think average people get married every day. Okay. Well, yeah, that's not my question. Well, it answers your question. So then how come how come you think that these uh these incelss
02:41:05
Raphael Gomezcan't find the women uh which are based around their preferences? Then I think a lot of people um either stay in their house and don't get out. They don't meet people. They don't ask people out in high school. They don't ask people out in college. I think that's a big problem
02:41:17
Andrew Wilsonwith men today is that they're not asking women out. I think that's a big big issue. Okay. What So, we'll just finish with this real quick and then I'll tie it all together for you. What do you consider a marriageable woman for
02:41:29
Raphael Gomezthe average man? What is marriageable? I can't prescribe that. I have no idea. Well, what do you think the average man would consider marriageable? Oh, someone they really enjoy being around. I don't know. That's what I
02:41:41
Andrew Wilsonthink they're looking for. Well, there's going to be some things that you would agree with me. They have to be like they probably have to be attracted to them. Sure. Right. A trait like that. They probably have to be attracted. Sure. But
02:41:54
Andrew Wilsonthere's But attraction comes in many ways. Well, they'd have to probably be physically attracted to each other, right? To some degree. But personality and humor can win a lot of people over. Yeah. But you still have to be attracted to a person to want to [ __ ] them.
02:42:07
Andrew WilsonThere's a lot of average people that get married every day, Andrew. Yeah. But that doesn't mean that they're not attracted to the other people. Okay. They could be attracted beyond physical looks. It It's It happens all the time. Yeah. But the thing is just
02:42:18
Andrew Wilsonlike it's really hard for a man's we need to get hard if it if if you're not physically not. It's not. It's really not. So if you're not So you [ __ ] women you're not physically attracted to? I'm saying most men find most women
02:42:31
Andrew Wilsonattractive. You You think that men [ __ ] women they're not attracted to? I think they find most women attractive. Yeah. So like, so so you think then that like um that men can just will themselves to [ __ ] attractive women? It's called a
02:42:43
Andrew Wilsonslump buster. Yeah. I think a lot of men find a lot of women attracted. And do you think they want long-term relationships with those women? Yes. Cuz they get married every day. Average people get married every day. Average doesn't mean you're not attracted to them, though. You keep on
02:42:56
Andrew Wilsonyou make you're making a conflation. Yeah. So like they have to be attracted at least, right? Sure. There has to be some attraction. But again, some physical attraction. Sure. Okay. And do you think that there's like I don't know
02:43:06
Raphael Gomezan obesity epidemic? Sure. Yeah. And so doesn't that lower the rates of attract? But aren't the 600 lb ladies married? Like you know, aren't they married? Like it can happen. Yeah. But they're usually
02:43:18
Andrew Wilsonmarried to like very very unattractive men as well, right? They're attracted to them. So what does it matter? No, they're not always attracted to each other. So they got married just for what? No, no, no. Sometimes it happens in the marriage. Okay. Right. Sometimes it happens in the marriage. They
02:43:30
Raphael Gomezliterally grow apart. The point is people can find other people attractive. People want to spend their lives with people, but you don't want to push that message. No. What do you What do you mean? I'm just talking about basic laws of attraction. Do you at least agree
02:43:43
Raphael Gomezthere has to be a trade of attraction? Sure. But if 600 if 600 lb people can find a partner, then I think a lot of people can find a partner. One second. I'm sorry. I don't know what's going on here. Oh,
02:43:54
SPEAKER_04good. Quick little guys, we're like 300 viewers away from 10,000 concurrent on YouTube. Guys, if you're watching, help us hit help us peak at 10,000. So anyway, yeah. So, back to this. So, we agree that there's at least one trait.
02:44:07
Andrew WilsonAre there any other traits for marriageable women? Uh, sorry, repeat the question. I'm not really sure. We agree there's at least one trait. There has to be attraction. Is there any other men? You're saying men need to find a woman attractive. That's one of the criteria. It's well, at least one we could agree on. There there has to be
02:44:19
Raphael Gomezattraction. Some attraction. Yes. Okay. What else for a marriageable woman? Um, I think if they enjoy being around the person, I think that's a big personality, humor, like same interest. I think those are a big factor. Yeah. Okay. They enjoy each other's
02:44:32
Andrew Wilsoncompany. Correct. That's a big part of living together. Okay. But, uh, so they enjoy each other's company. What else? Um, I don't know. They have similar
02:44:42
Andrew Wilsonvalues. Um, similar values. They agree on similar household duties, things like that. Okay. So, I agree. I would say that that that one you nailed right there, similar values is the thing that
02:44:54
Andrew WilsonI hear the most from both men and women. Yeah. Right. Similar values. So if you were to like I don't know ask a woman for instance about her political takes and they were completely the opposite of yours. Yeah. Right. You probably wouldn't want to be with that woman.
02:45:08
Andrew WilsonProbably not. And you probably shouldn't. So like if you thought for instance that women shouldn't vote, right? And they thought that they should. Yeah. You probably shouldn't date that person. Yeah. So it seems like it's a pertinent dating question now. Uh
02:45:20
Raphael Gomezno. I'm saying that in red pill. The only people who think women should invote are red pill people. So, I'm saying if they can get out of the red pill community, they wouldn't be But you just said that preferences are a thing which are completely fine and you have
02:45:33
Raphael Gomezno problem with anybody's preferences about anything. Okay. Yeah. If these people similar values, if they're like, "Hey, I don't think women should have the right to vote or I don't I don't think women should work," then yeah, go ahead and go ahead and whittle those people out of your life, go for it. So,
02:45:46
Andrew Wilsonjust to make sure, right? You think that if it's your preference that you shouldn't be with women like that? What percentage of the population? What percentage of the population you the red pillars and those are the men you're trying to save? They're the only ones that are aren't those the men you're
02:45:58
Andrew Wilsontrying to save. Yeah, absolutely. Well, but if their preference is to have these types of women, why do you think them? Why do you think they don't want women to vote? Well, I think that there's a they have good justifiable reasons for
02:46:10
Raphael Gomezwhy they don't want anybody to vote. Okay, that's what I think. Well, like I said, those are all the things that would make somebody I think viable. And if they don't match the So how you going to Well, how you going to save these guys if they have these preferences? I don't get it. Didn't they find somebody? Your
02:46:23
Raphael Gomezwife doesn't care about voting, right? You found somebody. Yeah, I did. Do you think there's a lot of my wives out there? I don't think there's a lot of you's out there. Well, but there's a lot of red pillars, right? Yeah, but I don't think there's I don't think every single red pillar thinks they shouldn't vote.
02:46:36
Raphael GomezThe women should have vote. You somehow that somehow you landed on that somehow and you found somebody who agrees with you. Um, so I hope she convinced me. Yeah. Okay. Well, I have hope that other guys can too then. Okay. So then inside
02:46:48
Andrew Wilsonof the of the red pill community though, you do agree that there's like a massive repeal the 19th movement. Sure. And and if they find women that agree, good for them. I hope they do. But they don't but they but they probably won't, right? Okay. Well, then they're they're going
02:47:00
Andrew Wilsonto be alone then. So So then you don't really care about the loneliness of red pillars. You just want them to change their preferences to meet your preferences. There's a lot of people there's a lot of red pillars that might change their whole belief system after getting out of it. Go ahead. Change my
02:47:13
Andrew Wilsonbelief system. and say I'm Why is it that red pillars should get with women who want the right to vote? I didn't say that. That that's not what you have no prescriptions. You have no [ __ ] prescriptions. It's like talking. Listen. No, you listen. No, you listen.
02:47:25
Andrew WilsonYou've been talking a [ __ ] prescription. I just talked to you like that. What are you going to [ __ ] do about it? Nothing. Yeah, you heard me. You [ __ ] heard me. You're not going to do [ __ ] Not trying to What are you trying to do? Now, back to this. What are you trying to do here? Nothing.
02:47:38
Andrew WilsonYeah. You want to come hard? We're doing it, right? Coming hard by what? I you just said don't you just said what are you gonna do right what are you okay what are you gonna do dude that is some insecurity I wouldn't say anything about
02:47:49
Andrew Wilsonthat are you now are you gonna engage here or not repeal the 19th I don't think we should got it if you had a preference for it okay and a woman didn't probably shouldn't date right right that would make it a legitimate dating question that doesn't but that's
02:48:02
Raphael Gomeznot what you just said you said I don't care about red pillars because they if they can't find a woman that uh yeah you want them to conform to your preferences I didn't say conform to my preferences I said if they get out of the red pill community, they might not believe these
02:48:14
Andrew Wilsonthings anymore. That's all I'm saying. Which would conform to to what? Your preferences. I didn't say anything about my preferences. You if the red pill if all these red pillars adopted your preferences like they don't care about
02:48:27
Raphael Gomezbody counts. I don't [ __ ] about my preferences. Who cares about my preferences? If they can't find a woman, Hold on. If they listen, if they can't find a woman, if they can't find a woman that doesn't match their preferences, they get out of the red pill because it's not working for them. They might change their beliefs. I'm not
02:48:40
Andrew Wilsonprescribing a preference. I'm prescribing getting out of the red pill. That's what I'm prescribing. So, can you prescribe any alternative? Getting out of the red pill is the first step. Yeah, that's not an alternative. It is. No,
02:48:49
Andrew Wilsonthat's just that. Listen, it's like saying this. Um, can your car is [ __ ] Great, but I need to drive to work. Can you tell me an alternative car? No. That's not the same thing. I'm saying
02:49:01
Raphael Gomezno, it's not. Okay, take the blue pill then. How about that? Okay. What's the blue pill? It's the complete opposite of the red pill. Yeah, that doesn't tell me anything. What is it? Okay. Well, you'll they'll figure it out. Okay, they'll figure it out. Never any prescriptions at all. No, cuz I'm not coming here to
02:49:14
Andrew Wilsonprescribe anything but getting out of the red pill. That's all. But don't you understand that unless you give prescriptions for why that is? Because it's not helping them. That's why. Yeah. But you won't even tell us what the standard of helping them is. What is it? If they're unhappy with the current
02:49:27
Andrew Wilsonsituation they're in because of the communities they're listening to, get out of it. Tell us what the alternative community they'll be happy in. First, throw up the red pill. That's the first step. Then we'll figure out if you're not happy with your shitty car, then just get rid of the car. What do I What
02:49:38
Andrew Wilsondo I get in? Nothing. Yeah. Nothing. Yep. Stupid. Stupid. It's so stupid. Yeah, it is. It's so dumb. You have no alternatives. It's so dumb. Yeah. No prescription. Keep prescribing the red pill then. Keep prescribing it. It's working for them. I I prescribe
02:49:50
Andrew WilsonChristian ethics. You also prescribe the red pill. No, I just say that there's things about the red pill. You ask me a specific narrow question. Has it done more good or more bad? I think it's done more bad. That doesn't mean it's a
02:50:02
Raphael Gomezprescriptor that I prescribe because I also understand it does more good than bad. Okay. Well, you personally don't, but the communities themselves do and the content creators do. What does it have to do with anything? What does that
02:50:14
Raphael Gomezhave to do with literally [ __ ] anything? It has to do with what my came here to do. Okay. What did you come here to do again? To try to convince as many red pillars to get out. Do you think you're doing that? I don't know. Maybe some people are listening. Do you think you're doing that? I don't know. Maybe some of them might say, "You know what? It isn't working for me. I'm going to
02:50:27
Andrew Wilsonget out." Maybe that's what they're thinking. You would have been better coming in with a pro-Christian ethics message because that actually gets him out of the red pill. Okay. Sure. Yeah, it does. It does it a lot better. Yeah. That's why Muslims do a
02:50:41
Andrew Wilsongood job recruiting out of the red pillar manosphere. It's why Christians do a good job. Secularist atheists who say, "Ah, no. I don't give a [ __ ] if a woman's [ __ ] plowed 100 guys, I'd still be with her anyway." That just turned off every [ __ ] who who is
02:50:54
Raphael Gomezwatching this, I promise. Well, that's fine. But if if it is going to Christian ethics and that gives them a happier life and they're not depressed and they're not incels, then hey, go for it. That's a prescription. Wait a second. So
02:51:05
Andrew Wilsonmaybe we can agree here. Should red pillars go towards Christian ethics? I'm not prescribing that. No. But if it helps them, go for it. If then that would be a prescription. No, it's not. There's several things they can turn to
02:51:17
Raphael Gomezthat aren't Christian ethics. But if that is one of them, I'm not saying that there's I don't know. But I'm saying there are other alternatives. If Christian ethics is one, if you said if religion in general is one alternatives, what I got here, there's other alternatives. Yeah. There's several
02:51:30
Raphael Gomezpeople that live their lives in a secular way that aren't depressed and and you know, incels. There's several ways you can live a secular life that doesn't necessarily have this hard and fast philosophy that you believe in. Uhhuh. There are people that can get out
02:51:42
Andrew Wilsonof it and choose a different path. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. You're just all you're offering up is more feminist degeneracy. Yeah. Degenerate. It is degenerate. I'm not promoting any sort of degeneracy. What your worldview leads
02:51:53
Andrew Wilsonto is cohabitation and single motherhood and degeneracy. That's all it ever leads to. And what red pill content leads to is depression. and red pill content leads to depression and it leads to loneliness and it leads to anger. Here's the thing. If you have to do the
02:52:06
Andrew Wilsonalternative spectrum where we follow your view for cohabitation, we already know what that does to men and it's way worse than if they never get married or if they do get married. We know it for sure. And your worldview, your secularist [ __ ] worldview, feminist
02:52:18
Andrew Wilsonworldview is what led us to this in the first place. It was the erosion of religion, the erosion of Christian ethics, the erosion of uh having a patriarchal society. We used to have 95%. 95% they stayed intact. Thanks,
02:52:31
Andrew Wilsonman. Oh, now you care about them so much. 95% what? Oh, marriages. You 95%? Because women were legally and economically trapped. Oh, you think this is a better system? Yes. Okay. Well, then why do you say you care about these
02:52:43
Raphael Gomezmen? Yes. You You want them to be free of the red pill? Correct. Then why'd you put them in a [ __ ] society where they needed it? Okay, that's Yeah, they needed it because of feminism. You're right. Blame women every chance you get. Blame women every chance you get. Andrew, did I blame women or did I blame
02:52:56
Andrew Wilsonan ideology? Okay. It's the same thing. No, it's not the same thing. You just don't understand how to know nothing. So again, this whole society, we had all of the things that you're prescribing.
02:53:06
Andrew WilsonMen's health really good. Women's health really good. Yeah, it really was. And now not so much. Thanks to you [ __ ] Yeah. Thanks to us. So you want them to
02:53:16
Andrew Wilsondo the exact same [ __ ] Same [ __ ] Cohabitate, have kids, let the woman take over when it comes to uh abortions, right? She can kill your kid, not kill your kid. Totally up to her. You [ __ ]
02:53:29
Andrew Wilsondeal with it. And if she has a high body count, just get over that preference. Yeah. If the red pill's working for you, if the red pill is working for you, keep it. If it's not, get the [ __ ] out. Well, here's the thing. Your lifestyle doesn't
02:53:39
Andrew Wilsonthe lifestyle secularism, which leads to the to um to degeneracy, is what forced society into to this [ __ ] play. Anyway, so you know what for I think a lot of men are angry that women have
02:53:52
Raphael Gomezagency and they can live their own lives. they can make income and these men are just upset about it. That's what it is. And the red pill was a good community for them to go to because they're rejected and they're angry. So the red pill is what it is. Yeah. So
02:54:03
Andrew Wilsonit's it has nothing to do with agency. It has to do with the uh understanding of virtues. Oh yeah. It's virtues. That's the issue. Everyone's like, man, you think you think that gender is nebulous. In fact, everything is
02:54:15
Andrew Wilsonnebulous. You're So when you say masculine or you say feminine, those are nebulous terms to you. But the thing is is like masculinity is not a nebulous term. It's always been associated with
02:54:25
Andrew Wilsonvirtue. The same as femininity, feminine virtues and masculine virtues. The world changes. Yeah. But the thing is it's like that forcing of the prog of of progression ideology, progressive
02:54:37
Raphael Gomezideology. Exactly what got us here. And all you're prescribing is more progressive ideology. Yeah. The idea that women wanted to, you know, be lawyers and they couldn't 55 years ago. Yeah. Oh my god. Instead, they took care of their own children. We're forcing it.
02:54:50
Andrew WilsonOh, we're forcing it down your throat. Oh my god. Let me ask you this. God forgive people try to find their own. Would you rather this? Would you rather take away the ability of women to be lawyers if it meant that the human population continued to go cuz they
02:55:02
Raphael Gomezstayed at home or were mothers? Or would you let humanity go extinct so that women could stay lawyers if they wanted to? I don't know if a life is worth living if you don't have agency. That's what I said. I just No, I don't. I would rather women had the choice. That's what
02:55:14
SPEAKER_04I said. And all of humanity go extinct. So be it. Okay, I think that's the end of the debate. There's some other punks. Uh, we got some chats coming through, guys, if
02:55:25
SPEAKER_04you want to get it in. $100 TTS. Andrew's going for another smoke break. There he goes. Uh, he'll be right back, guys. We have Lucas. Thank you, Lucas. Lucas donated $100. Appreciate it.
02:55:37
Brian AtlasHealthy masculinity equals biblical masculinity, i.e. highly competent, patriarchal/familyoriented, honorable, unassalably virtuous, courageous, with impeccable integrity. Doesn't that sound
02:55:50
Raphael Gomezlike my definition a little bit beyond the Bible? Is is that your definition? Doing the right thing cuz it's the right thing. Like uh you know, family oriented, honorable, virtuous, courageous, impeccable, integrity, I don't know.
02:56:02
Brian AtlasOkay, we have Jason Castle here. Thank you, Jason. Appreciate it. Jason Castle donated $100. Like I said, definitely one of the dumbest guys Andrew has ever debated. In
02:56:14
Brian Atlasorder to have an actual debate, you need to understand your opponent's worldview that includes their definition. Dummy. I didn't come here to play the definition game. That's Andrew's little tactic he does with every debate. That's
02:56:26
SPEAKER_04why these are five hours. Yeah. But I mean, don't you think it's fair that in order for you guys to have an understanding of what you're actually talking about, you both can agree on a definition? Yeah, I do agree. But
02:56:38
Raphael Gomezthere's there's things that I think are are given that he tries to nitpick anyway. Like for example, if I said I think women historically would be oppressed, he would say, "Well, what's oppression?" And then it's like he knows
02:56:50
Raphael Gomezwhat oppression is, but he wants to play this semantic game which leads us down a road which makes him win argument points, but it's like we both agree that women have been oppressed at some point. So that's he might disagree, but I I
02:57:02
SPEAKER_04agree with you that he knows what well he has his own sense of or his own definition of oppression, but he's just looking to you to give your own definition to make sure that you guys
02:57:13
SPEAKER_04are talking about the same thing. For example, uh how would you uh and I'm not debating on Sure. Sure. No, I think I like this conversation. No, for sure. How would you how would you define racism? Um I define racism as a
02:57:24
SPEAKER_04systematic discrimination due to someone's identity mostly. Like I think prejudice and racism are two different things. But for example, some people and I don't know if you use this definition will use the following definition of racism. Racism equals prejudice plus
02:57:37
SPEAKER_04power. Yeah, I I I can I can agree with that. Is that your definition? Yeah, I can I can agree with that. Yeah. But many people in the original definition of racism, that's not the original definition of
02:57:49
SPEAKER_04racism. So that's why I think he's trying to figure out the definitions of words because especially with words like oppression, racism, sexism. If Oh my god, I am. Is that really I have not been talking into the mic the entire
02:58:02
SPEAKER_04time. I had it turned around. So I hope probably nobody heard what I was saying. Um my apologies. So the definition of
02:58:11
SPEAKER_04racism, if it's prejudice, racism equals prejudice plus power. Uh, Andrew is not going to agree with you on that definition, right? But instead of providing his own definition,
02:58:22
Raphael Gomezhe wants to pick apart mine. And I think that's the [ __ ] that he does in debates. If you don't agree with my definition, provide your own. Huh? You mean you win? No, you're winning debate club. I'm trying to have a conversation. You don't know what a conversation is. You don't even have a worldview that's
02:58:36
Andrew Wilsoninformed. Okay. All you're doing is prescribing degeneracy. All you do is believe in Christian ethics cuz it's your go. The thing that worked for 2,000 years. Oh, it's it worked so well. Yes, it did. For years. Why aren't we doing it still? We we're trying to move
02:58:46
Andrew Wilsonsociety to it. It's not going there. Yeah. Whatever. Half the world by 2050 they're secularists are going to be more popular. By 2050 they can't reproduce stupid. They can't they can't [ __ ] We're the ones [ __ ] They're not. No, they're not. Do
02:59:00
Andrew Wilsonyou want to know? Do you want to take a breakdown of population by secularists versus Christians? Not even from the same [ __ ] universe, dude. Okay. Okay. Really quick, really quick before we get right back into it. I just want to read Dude, I you got to let me go get some
02:59:13
Andrew Wilsonsleep, man. It's 24 hours. cuz I've been up now. How long have we been doing this? Uh, like hours. 3 hours. It's time. It's time. We got to wrap it on this, bro. I'll be back tomorrow, though. 30 minutes. 30 minutes. 30 minutes. Okay, 30 minutes. Let me let at