Andrew Wilson vs. Woke Male Feminist Hater | Whatever Debates #17
Date: 2025-05-16
Duration: 5h 42m
Brian AtlasIdentified Speakers
SPEAKER_00Brian Atlas(host)
SPEAKER_01Andrew Wilson(guest)
SPEAKER_03Raphael Gomez(guest)
Key Moments
00:00:13
IntroBrian introduces debate format
00:01:22
Key MomentRaphael's opening: red pill is poison backed by peer-reviewed research
00:39:00
ControversyRaphael says 'f*** the logic' when pushed on child support justification. Brian and Andrew react with disbelief.
01:31:00
ControversyAndrew tells Raphael to 'shut the f*** up.' Most heated moment.
02:56:00
Key MomentRaphael concedes: if Christian ethics helps depressed men, he's fine with it
03:38:30
AgreementBoth agree to Round 2 debate
Topics Discussed
00:04:00
Red Pill Definition
Andrew: red pill is descriptive data packet. Raphael: it's defined by its biggest creators (Whatever, Fresh & Fit, Tate).
00:32:00
Red Pill and Male Mental Health
Raphael cites studies linking red pill to loneliness/distress. Andrew challenges replication crisis. Cohabitation vs marriage suicide rates.
00:41:00
Feminism and Single Motherhood
Andrew: feminist ideology dismantled marriage. Raphael: men abandon children (95% of custody uncontested by fathers).
01:42:00
Therapy and Psychology
Raphael advocates CBT. Andrew challenges psychology's 60-70% replication failure rate.
02:18:00
Masculinity Definition
Raphael: healthy masculinity is expansive. Andrew finds definition circular. Major meta-argument about debate methodology.
03:24:04
Closing Statements
Raphael: red pill not for everyone, seek alternatives. Andrew: opponent offered no coherent prescription.
03:29:00
Post-Debate Roast
Military draft, historical female oppression, natalism. Raphael reveals he is 41, married, deliberately child-free.
Transcript
Page 4 of 6
02:59:25
SPEAKER_04least let the chats come through really quick, guys. Okay, 30 minutes. Uh, so yeah, we'll do 30 minutes if you want. Final time, final opportunity. $99 TTS. Also, really quick, guys. We're like 200 viewers away from hitting 10,000
02:59:39
Andrew Wilsonconcurrent viewers. Let me ask you this, too. Join us really quick. Is there any degeneracy you're against? Any? I'm sure. Like homosexuality? No, I'm not against that. Female promiscuity? No,
02:59:49
Andrew WilsonI'm not against that. Okay. Um, are you against male promiscuity? No. Okay. No male promiscuity. Are you against uh like three men in a homosexual
03:00:02
Andrew Wilsonrelationship adopting a child? No. No, not against that either. Um, what degeneracy would you be against? I can give me examples. I'll tell you. Maybe necroilia. Like what? What? You draw the
03:00:13
Andrew Wilsonline at dead bodies. That's one. That's it. I That's the one I could think of. I'm sure there's more. What about incest? Uh, yeah. I I think that's degeneracy. You think that is? Yeah. So, can you tell me why it is you think two brothers shouldn't be able to have sex?
03:00:26
Andrew WilsonIt just doesn't sit right with me. No. Okay. It just doesn't. And none of this sits right with anybody. The idea The idea that you So, all you've prescribed for society is the same exact thing that these guys have been dealing with for
03:00:38
Andrew Wilsonthe last 50 years, which is just an unlimited amount of degeneracy. What new? You know what? Let me just ask this. What new are you actually bringing to the table? Are you bringing any new idea other than just I'm a progressive and do whatever the [ __ ] you want? Are
03:00:51
Raphael Gomezyou bringing anything? I think my channel is showing that the red pill myths that they're being told about women isn't necessarily true. So, I'm bringing that and people have told me that it's helping. So, okay. That's what I'm bringing to the table. Well, it looks to me like all
03:01:05
Raphael Gomezyou're bringing to the table is just more progressive degeneracy. It looks to me like all you're bringing to the table is a return to the 1950s. No, I'm Well, here's the thing. 1950s so good, right? Hey, in the 1950s, what did you think about the lack of mental illnesses
03:01:17
Andrew Wilsonthere? Yeah, I'm sure there weren't any mental illnesses or maybe we didn't know how comparison to the 1950s were so great. Let's just go back. What was so what what about the interpersonal relationships in the 1950s did you hate
03:01:28
Andrew Wilsonso much? What were they? You don't know, do you? Yeah. You don't know. No. All you bring to the table is let's go back in time. That's all you bring to the table. Oh, I'm sorry. You're You're upset that I used tradition. Do I seem upset? What's What's a tradition? Do I
03:01:39
Andrew Wilsonseem upset? Yeah. It seems like an experiment that worked. Oh, did it? Yeah. That's what a tradition. Do you have family traditions? Not really. None? Not that I can think of. No. Oh. Would you agree with me that a tradition
03:01:52
Andrew Wilsoncould easily be looked at as an experiment which worked? Not necessarily. Well, I mean, why would you have them if they don't work? I don't know. Is the Christmas tree a tradition? Does it work? Yes, it works. And here's what it works for. Has no application.
03:02:03
Andrew WilsonIt works for the assistance of people getting around a Christmas tree and celebrating an event. Yeah. And it works so well that it spread like wildfire and everybody started doing it. It was a
03:02:15
Andrew Wilsongreat way to assist with community. Seems like a tradition that worked. Richard Dawkins, who was a very famous atheist, said he really misses Christmas carols. He did everything he could to eliminate Christianity, but he really misses Christmas carols. Yeah. Well, you
03:02:27
Andrew Wilsoncan celebrate Christmas without being Christian. Sure. You're just going to steal from our ethics like always. And then, you know, degenerize them. Yeah, sure. But Okay. Did you want them? By the way, I order food. I I was going to
03:02:39
SPEAKER_04get us food after the show or No, I need sleep. No, just checking. I was going to I was going to order some food, Andrew. Going to get you a burger. All right. Let me let the chats come through. Uh, I'm sure the audience can tell I'm
03:02:50
Brian Atlas[ __ ] tired, too. Christopher Scott donated $100. And I wonder why men feel disheartened in society. Could it be the solid 20 to 30 years of telling them they're
03:03:01
Raphael Gomezmonsters? predators and # unalive all men. No, it's all Red Pill's fault. I think that's horrible. I don't think people should make men feel terrible,
03:03:11
Raphael Gomezbut I think what's happening with Red Pill is that it's becoming a dehumanization of women and it's becoming demonizing women and I don't think that's going to help either. So, I don't agree that men should be berated
03:03:24
Brian Atlaslike that, but I also don't think women should either. Okay, we have Jordan Flores here. This is the Mexican guy. Jordan Flores donated $100. The representative of married for 10 years
03:03:36
Brian Atlasand four kids. Again, Andrew, not all of us Mexicans are as stupid as this one. Some of us understand how to follow a simple argument.
03:03:47
Raphael GomezYou got something to say about Mexicans? Yes. What is it? Go ahead. The mic's right there. Well, I'm not going to say they're all stupid as you. What the [ __ ] Oh, whoops. Uh, okay. I'm not
03:03:59
Brian Atlasgoing to say that. That's too much. But like the term stupid Mexican is pretty funny. It's pretty funny, dude. If you want to help sincerely, then try to understand sincerely. Andrew brings
03:04:11
Raphael Gomezup good points and you remain evasive. It doesn't help anyone. Well, as I was telling uh Brian when Andrew went for a smoke, if I give a definition of something, he doesn't agree with it. He can provide his own,
03:04:23
Andrew Wilsonbut instead he wants to play a semantic definition game and it's [ __ ] So, I don't like playing that game with him. I'm not. It's It's really funny because I can be super pedantic with semantics.
03:04:34
Andrew WilsonThat's true. But in this case, you by your own admission said it's my own definition, meaning it's proprietary. I have every business in
03:04:43
Andrew Wilsonthe world exploring that to make sure that it is pointing at the thing that we both understand it's trying to point to, but it's not. You keep it. The re see it's actually you playing semantic games because if you would narrow and hone on
03:04:57
Andrew Wilsonwhat the definition was we wouldn't have to waste so much [ __ ] time on it so I understood what it is you're trying to play. If you just were provide your definition and we could find a middle ground. We can also look forward to your position. I don't prove your position. Exactly. This is the debate club [ __ ] that I'm talking about. Yes.
03:05:10
Andrew WilsonIt's a debate. It's an ideological debate between world. It's a debate club. You're playing some for some [ __ ] stupid ass points. Destiny triangles. Destiny triangles. You're trying to play for some points that aren't real. All right. We have Chaw here. Thank you. Cha
03:05:22
Brian AtlasCh XD donated $100. These secular idiots are driving more men to Red Pill than even the most prolific Red Pill podcasters. They offer
03:05:33
Raphael Gomezyou nothing, no duty, no prescriptions, no virtue. Just generate hell on earth. Just degeneracy. It's all they ever prescribe. So, as you mentioned that Myron Gaines is a degenerate and he's promoting stuff. So, what virtue is he
03:05:45
Andrew Wilsonpromoting or what uh duty is he? At least Myin, when you sit down and talk to him about virtues and about Christian ethics and about duty, he'll at least concede on these grounds. You literally
03:05:57
Andrew Wilsonjust said the whole [ __ ] world can can just go ahead and die off if that means women can't be lawyers. Like, you're in a [ __ ] different world of
03:06:05
Brian Atlascrazy. Okay. All right. Got iron. Thank you. Iron Manny donated
03:06:13
Brian Atlas$100. No names. way yell and trump parake pace p I can't with you you look
03:06:21
Brian Atlasdefeated shoulders slumped gaze down to do beta way n British Spanish there all right uh we have Jim GMD gym
03:06:34
SPEAKER_04thank you man appreciate it uh let's see here that's taken uh guys if you want we'll do a roast session after this donated $699
03:06:45
Brian Atlasleave. I'll continue. He talked [ __ ] behind your back, Andrew. Like a woman. Please pick up the mic. What are you not shocked about? This kid behind a divorce. Did I talk [ __ ] behind his back, Brian? As a teenager, what did you
03:06:57
Andrew Wilsonsay to you were here whenever I was talking to you? I mean, I came in and you were talking [ __ ] when I wasn't here. All Andrew does is blah blah blah blah. That's talking [ __ ] It's kind of like I don't remember. Yeah, that I mean, that's definitely Even when I was walking in, I
03:07:10
Andrew Wilsonheard you talk. Me and Brian were having a conversation about how you don't give a definition. And that's not talking [ __ ] bro. Wait, I didn't say that. No, I said we were talking about it. I That's what I was saying, bro. When Okay. Yeah, we were talking about it. So, he got to the whole first part of
03:07:22
Andrew Wilsonthis debate. You go rewind it later and you need to. That was me on defense and I gave you every opportunity to examine my worldview. When we got to your positive claims, you refused to answer a single [ __ ] question. It was
03:07:33
SPEAKER_04ridiculous. Question for both of you. Uh, there were a bunch more prompts. Would you guys do a round two? Yeah. Like a different day. Yeah, a different day. Just cuz uh you know, Andrew, he's
03:07:46
SPEAKER_04been up for 24 hours. We've already done 3 hours. I get it. But if you're down to come back, we'd love Andrew, if you'd like to do it again, we can, you know, it was uh entertaining. I can't wait. I can't wait to hear more about how
03:07:58
Raphael Gomezdegeneracy is going to save society. I can't wait to hear uh let's define this and let's define that. Let's uh how do you define this and what I'm not going to provide my It's not the rules. I don't the rules. If you if you want to cross examine my provide your I asked
03:08:11
Raphael Gomezyou to provide a definition. You didn't do it. It's because it's your position. It doesn't matter. If we don't agree with I need to give you a definition for your [ __ ] position, dude. I gave you my definition and if you didn't agree with it, tell me yours. It's that
03:08:22
SPEAKER_02simple. It's not It's not debate rules. I know. It's not the debate rules. We can't have a real conversation. It's illogical. It's not illogical. I have a If you don't agree with my position, tell me yours and maybe we can find a middle ground. But that's not how that's
03:08:35
Andrew Wilsonnot how you debate. That's not how you talk. That's not how anybody debates. That's how a lot of people have conversations. Critique. Listen, even inside of conversations, all you're really doing is debating. It's just that
03:08:46
Andrew Wilsonyou refuse to formalize it because you're terrified of where your [ __ ] thoughts lead. So, what you do instead is filibuster, refuse to answer questions, refuse to allow me to even even understand what it is that you're
03:08:57
Raphael Gomeztalking about with a proprietary definition. I also have seen enough of your debates that I know when you go down the the morality rabbit hole, what's your what morality do you do subscribe to? Oh, I'm Christian ethics. Oh, well, you don't have any kind of relevant, you know, is relevantism. It's
03:09:10
Andrew Wilsonthe same [ __ ] you do every [ __ ] debate. So, I'm not doing it. I I literally told you I wasn't going to get into morality. But if we went down that hole, you can't help yourself. You can't help yourself. You do it every debate.
03:09:21
Andrew WilsonBut here's the No, I don't. Not only that, not only do I not, especially in political debates, there's never a reason to. In this case, we never really got into morality at all. just your prescriptions for society which were
03:09:33
Andrew Wilsonjust like I know everybody can do whatever the [ __ ] they want on a bridge. You're gonna say it's moral relativism is No, it's just it's just Crowley. It's just do as thou wilt. It's the same [ __ ] we've been dealing with for 60 years. You're not helping nothing. Okay. All
03:09:44
Brian Atlasright. A few more chats coming through. We got Birdman. $69 TTS donated $69. Thank you. When you leave the debate, you're going to leave with your definition. So Andrew is working with
03:09:57
Andrew Wilsonyour definition. You're playing the semantics game, not Andrew. Exactly. I'm trying to be clear so we're not playing semantics or equivocating. See, the biggest thing and like now the audience can see this firsthand why this becomes
03:10:10
Andrew Wilsonso frustrating for people like me is with equiv equivocation. They'll move between the like a tube of toothpaste. They don't want you to pin them down on the [ __ ] they actually believe. I said from the beginning that masculinity
03:10:22
Andrew Wilsonshould not be rigid and I don't have a strict definition. So I can't pin down any beliefs. Don't pin it down. Share yours. Right. Share yours if you want my definition of masculinity. Sure. If you want to finally share it, let's go for
03:10:33
Andrew Wilsonit. So, my definition of masculinity and my definition of femininity are going to be tied to virtues. Okay. So, here's what I mean by this. If you have male
03:10:43
Andrew Wilsonvirtue, right, and female virtue, all virtues are going to be united in in the way that men and women both need to have courage, for instance. Okay? But if it
03:10:53
Andrew Wilsonis the case that the effects on society when one gender specifically lacks whatever that virtue is over the other and the results are either more devastating or more positive that would be a masculine trait versus a feminine
03:11:05
Andrew Wilsontrait. Interesting. Say that one more time. So if let's you said courage is something that both masculine I don't want to answer anymore about this. I can't believe this. I can't [ __ ] believe
03:11:16
Andrew Wilsonthat. I just gave you my definition. I just gave it to you. Why are you asking me more about it? It's because I don't understand. I don't Well, I didn't understand yours, but that Oh, I'm sorry. I'm not questioning it. No, I'm not. I'm not answering any more
03:11:29
Andrew Wilsonquestions about my definition. That's fine. Go for it. Not answering anymore. I wasn't questioning your definition. I'm just trying to make sure it make sure I heard it right. You're trying to understand it. So, you're trying to understand it so that you I didn't ask
03:11:40
Andrew Wilsonyou what's courage, did I? Yeah. No, but the thing is it's like you're asking me follow-up questions about the definition. Rightly so, because I didn't understand it, but you're you're saying what's good. I didn't ask you what courage was. I didn't ask you what courage. You didn't need to. You were
03:11:53
Andrew Wilsontrying to get an elaboration. You said that's interesting. Let's dive in on this a little more. Yeah. Look at that. It's almost like you want to hone in definitionally on my worldview, which is smart. The way I approach that is so different from the way you approach it.
03:12:05
SPEAKER_02And you [ __ ] know it. It's a conversation. No, it's not the same [ __ ] Something dude had the best faith debate ever. You are not a good faith debater. All you had to do, you're not a good faith. All you had to do is you're not a good faith where you asked me the
03:12:17
SPEAKER_02definition. I gave it to you. I would have continued. You are notoriously a bad faith. According to who? To everyone who's debated you. Somebody who's debated you. Someone who's not leftist. No. Anyone who's debated you. Anyone. Anyone. Who's that? Literally anyone.
03:12:29
SPEAKER_02Who's anyone? I've never debated anybody. Tommy Lauren thinks you're a good faith debater. Tommy Lauren. Whatever the [ __ ] her name is. A leftist. Tommy Lauren. Tommy Lauren. Yeah. Leftist. She's not a leftist. Oh yeah, she is. Okay, here we go. Now she's a leftist. She's a progressive. Yeah. Yeah, sure. She's a progressive.
03:12:42
Andrew WilsonYeah, I called her out for being a feminist. She's still pissed about it to this day. No, because you're not a good faith debater. That's why. And did did she ever call me bad faith? You're not a good faith. Did she ever call me bad faith? I'm sure she thinks it. Did she ever call me that? I'm sure she thinks she made it up. She said she still pissed you. You just made it up. You
03:12:55
SPEAKER_02just made it up. So you made it up. She's still pissed, right? She's still pissed. Yeah, but that doesn't mean I'm bad faith cuz she's pissed. Why would Why would she be pissed if it's not if it's debate in a debate? Debates cuz you called her a [ __ ] name. It's cuz you called her a [ __ ] name. You know what
03:13:07
Raphael Gomezhappens? So women can be lawyers. I want people to have agency. And if that costs humanity, then what? What's life worth living? Exactly. If either they could be lawyers or lawyers I said agency it's
03:13:19
SPEAKER_02not that specific Andrew I said I said agency yeah because it it ties into agency right so then so what you're saying again they better be able to be lawyers you're stronging my argument my argument is anyone who has if you can't
03:13:32
Raphael Gomezhave agency in your life I don't care if humanity goes off the cliff that's what I'm saying okay how much agency I don't know oh agency though whatever that means a choice to equality basically equal opportunity that's what I'm saying
03:13:45
Raphael Gomezbut men don't have equality equality and abortion, you're fine with it. Equal opportunity. Yeah. Men don't have equality in abortion. You're fine with equal opportunity. I said, not equality. Yeah. Men don't have equal opportunity with abortion either. You're fine with it. Well, they're not the ones giving birth. So, of course, they don't have equality. If they are the ones who are on the If they want to give birth, if
03:13:58
Andrew Wilsonthey want to give equal opportunity to give birth, then yeah, let's go for it. No. How about just equal opportunity to have a say in whether or not their kid is born or not, but it's not an equal opportunity for them because they can't provide. They can't. They don't need to to have the equal opportunity. God, they
03:14:10
Andrew Wilsoncan't. That's what laws are. We can we can literally outlaw abortion tomorrow. So, you would rather there not be no world than an abortion outlawed? I didn't say that. Well, you're destroying agency and equity, right? Is that your position, though? No, my position is not
03:14:23
Andrew Wilsonbecause I I have But women won't have agency. That's not the same thing, man. Why? Same [ __ ] They won't have agency. They won't have agency. Not the same thing. If women can't have abortions, they don't have agency. Now, the agency that men have, that's what I'm saying.
03:14:36
Andrew WilsonThe agency that other people have, if you can't have that, then no, I don't think whatever. Like so like abortion, you can't have an abortion. No, I didn't say that. Yeah, but if you can't have an abortion, how's that not limiting agency? Because other if no one can have an
03:14:49
Raphael Gomezabortion, then other no one can have an abortion. That's it. And if if men have a say and women have a say, then both of them have a say and that's it. No, my point is if a men have agency in one thing and women have the same
03:15:01
Raphael Gomezopportunity to have the same agency, then they should like with a child being born. No, because men don't have agency around child birth at all. Yes, they should have it. No, they don't cuz they don't they don't get pregnant. They don't get pregnant. Yes, it's still their kid. Still their kid of it after
03:15:15
Andrew Wilsonit's done after it doesn't it doesn't matter. Okay. So then by that logic then if you were going to implant I don't know your egg and se your wife's egg and then your semen into another woman and
03:15:26
Andrew Wilsonshe agreed to it and it gets 6 weeks down the road is she should she be able to abort that kid if she doesn't want to go through with the pregnancy. It sucks but yeah. Okay. No, I at least I'm consistent.
03:15:38
Brian AtlasGood lord. Let's finish the chats if we can. All right, we got Lulu Lulu here. Thank you, Lulu Lulu. Lulu donated $100.
03:15:48
Brian AtlasDude, stop dismissing this debate club. You came on to a debate. We all expecting a debate. That's like going to a funeral, cracking jokes, or going to a party with bad vibes. A debate can be
03:16:01
SPEAKER_04several things. It doesn't have to be this prescriptive rules that Andrew likes to play. Debate can be a back and forth. We got Lucas coming in here. We got Lucas coming in and we got Rachel Wilson in just a moment with the chat. If you want
03:16:13
Brian Atlasto get it in, we lowered it. We're doing a $69 TTS. Lucas donated $100. This is a roast session. Hey, soy boy exclamation mark. Do you really think you changed in a single mind today with a vapid pratt?
03:16:25
Raphael GomezAre you that out of touch? Men have categorically rejected your world view. Did you see the election for potus? Yeah, that's one election. But I you guys aren't aren't headed for more. It's
03:16:38
Andrew Wilsonfine. Did you vote Biden? Oh, we're not? Huh? I absolutely did. Did you see what happened with abortion? We're not heading for more, though. Did you see what's in the Supreme Court right now where they're about to maybe limit anchor babies? We're not heading for more, though. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see how long this lasts. Yeah, we'll see
03:16:50
SPEAKER_04how long it [ __ ] lasts. All right. We got Jag here. Doesn't care about logic or the end of humanity. Uh, sick and demented human. Thank you, Jag 48, for the super chat. Appreciate it. Uh, and
03:17:01
SPEAKER_04then we have Brian S. Riddle me this. If all I need to do is read a book to get better, what good are psychologists? Also, Soy Boy's month old channel is so informative about how bad the red pill
03:17:13
Andrew Wilsonis that he gives his guests the subject matter to discuss. I don't get that last part. You're you're In other words, you're feeding them answers and information is what he's saying. Oh. Uh now, I don't know if
03:17:25
Raphael Gomezthat's true or not, but that's what he's saying. He's not. Also, I want to address that. No, I don't think it's just the book. It's the same thing like with going to the gym that I liken it to if you go to the gym to work out your body. Um, you know, a protein shake
03:17:39
Raphael Gomezhelps. For example, like reading supplementary material, I think helps. Same way with uh therapy. If you're going to therapy to work on like the mental gym, books, uh, are supplements to that. That's how I feel. All right.
03:17:51
SPEAKER_04Uh, we'll do closing statements after we get through the rest of these chats. There's about five. Does this guy realize that there's cause and effect? There's a reason for the red pill. It's
03:18:02
Andrew Wilsonnot all on men. We didn't cause it alone, so we can't fix it alone. What responsibility do women have? Well, I got his official answer for that on page. You don't have my official answer.
03:18:12
Raphael GomezYou said none. No, he he responsibility I think to the red pill. That's duty. You said to the red pill. I'm talking about if we're trying to fix this divide. That's what he's talking about. So, I'm saying if the red pill Yes, I
03:18:25
Raphael Gomezagree. It is a cause and effect. Men have been rejected. they're angry and red pill is is a community that they feel they can confide in. I think what needs to happen is I also think a lot of
03:18:36
Raphael Gomezmisandry is also a a reaction to the red pill that we're seeing more uh more prominent and I think that's a problem too. Um so I think if we want to get people back together we have to stop being so extreme and I think we have to
03:18:48
SPEAKER_04stop demonizing each other and I think that's both men and women. Erroneous. Erroneous. Which part's erroneous? Mis misandry being a response to red pill to
03:18:58
Andrew Wilsonmisogyny. Wouldn't wait what? I think red pill is a very misogyny space. You said that misogyny was the response. And so then if Miss Andre's response to the misogyny, then that would mean that it was Miss Andrew that caused the
03:19:10
Raphael Gomezmisogyny. How does that work? Well, because what caused the misogyny? Rejection. Rejection and men being men being demonized. That's not I didn't I said if I said the misandry now they
03:19:22
Raphael Gomezneed to stop demonizing. I don't think that was the reason misogynist content started coming up. Misogynist it started coming up because men felt rejected and they and and these guys pray on that rejection by saying victimized. No, I'm I'm in the middle of speaking. So these
03:19:35
Raphael Gomezpeople are they're praying they're praying they're praying on people that are are rejected and angry. They're praying on people that are rejected and angry. And so they're saying, "Hey, I can help you self-improve." And by the way, women suck, don't they? That's what
03:19:47
Brian AtlasRed Pill does. Okay. Rachel Wilson donated $69. Male feminism is a mating strategy for beta males. They try to blend in with
03:19:59
Brian Atlasthe women and seem non-threatening. If this guy really respected women, he would respect me and not lie about my husband. I don't think I disrespected her in any
03:20:09
Andrew Wilsonway. Okay. No, he said she's saying that the disrespect is when you lie about me. I don't think I lied about you either. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when you say bad faith, those are all lies. You're a bad faith. debate. No, you just don't know how to debate. You're a bad faith
03:20:22
Andrew Wilsondebate. You not knowing how to debate doesn't mean I'm bad faith. The people who do know how to debate, they'll call you a bad faith debate. Which ones? Oh, not the liberal ones. Yeah. So, the conservative ones who all become my friends after and come to me for debate lessons. They don't think I'm bad faith,
03:20:34
Andrew Wilsonthough. Huh. Just the ones who hate my political ideology. That's awful [ __ ] convenient. It's awful convenient that. And by the way, I've seen this on the other side, too. Tons of right-wing people are like, "Destiny's bad faith." I remember him putting out a post
03:20:47
Andrew Wilsonsaying, "At this point, I reject bad faith because it just means you lost the debate." And you know what? I tend to [ __ ] agree with him on that. Well, that's good that you and Destiny agree on something. God b Lucas donated $69.
03:21:00
Brian AtlasThank you, Lucas. Just imagine having to rely on this eel cast to storm the beaches of Normandy. Complete and utter lack of testicular fortitude. Do you want to respond to the lack of testicular fortitude accusations? I I
03:21:13
Brian Atlasjust don't understand where that's even coming from just because I I I like women. I don't get it. Okay. All right. We got another one coming in. Selena Gomez. Lucas, thank you very much. Selena Gomez donated
03:21:25
Brian Atlas$69. He literally wants us to take the blue pill and stay in the simulation. Give me two red pills immediately. If the red pill's working for you, I can already see this poor guy is a clown. If the red pill's working for you, go for
03:21:38
Brian Atlasit. Take another dose. If the red pill is helping you in your life, take another dose. Go for it. Okay, we got no more no more walls coming in here in just a moment. Thank you. No more walls. No more valves donated. $69.
03:21:51
Brian AtlasOne. Seriously, the worst male guest ever. Two raised two boys myself from birth and are in their 20s, which I thank God turned out the opposite of
03:22:00
Brian Atlasthis fool. Three. Bet. He cucks for his mom and best friend. I hope your boys don't take the red pill. All right. Thank you. No more walls. We got more
03:22:11
Brian Atlasthan we hope they take the crisis 7 was a donated 99. What about paternal abortion? My wallet,
03:22:21
Raphael Gomezmy choice. Are you okay with that? I believe that if a father has a child, they should take care of it. That's what I believe. What if they just give sperm? If that's a contractual agreement, then
03:22:34
Andrew Wilsonfine. Then what if they have a contractual agreement with the woman before they That's okay. So, so then if it is the case that men began to have women sign contracts that if they got pregnant, the men bore no
03:22:47
Andrew Wilsonresponsibility. If Hang on, hang on. I just want let me finish the question. Okay. Right. That men bore no responsibility whatsoever and they signed it. You would want the state to not be to to enforce that, right? Yeah. If it's a if it's a contract between two people and that's what they agreed to,
03:23:01
Brian Atlasthat's fine. Then welcome to the red pill. That's not it. Okay. Certainly not red pill. Yeah, that's a very red pill position. donated $69. Thank you, Spyro. This joker wants to help men with
03:23:12
Brian Atlasdepression. Also, he says they have no agency over their kids and removes agency from involuntary celibates who definitionally can't do [ __ ] about their inalness. H Spyro, thank you for that. Appreciate
03:23:25
Brian Atlasit. Thank you. Thank you. Then we have this chat. Then we're going to do closing statements. Powered by Assist donated $100. Romania and Poland. We are the
03:23:36
Brian Atlasfront line against Russian influence. For the love of God, vote wisely in the coming presidential election. Vote Nick Zadan and against Russian propaganda and ideology. Well, you can't be Poland or Polish.
03:23:49
SPEAKER_04There's no way you could have written that. All right. So, here's what we're going to do. We're going to do closing statement. You're going to go first with your closing statement. Andrew, you have final word. My closing statement is
03:24:02
Raphael Gomezsimple. If the red pill is working for you, by all means continue consuming the content. But if it's not, I implore you to seek other alternatives. If you are depressed, um if you're lonely, um I
03:24:13
Raphael Gomezencourage you to seek help. Um because a lot of the people in this community are struggling and I hate to see it. And the people I talk to that are in this community that say, you know, you're giving me hope for the first time. That's all I'm trying to do. And maybe I
03:24:26
Raphael Gomezdidn't make the best argument because I'm not a debater. I came here with a specific purpose and it's to try to help men in the red pill. And if I did, great. If I didn't, oh well, so be it. I gave it a shot.
03:24:38
Andrew WilsonAll right, Andrew. Uh, go ahead with your closing statement. Well, all it all just comes down to ignorance. So, the the ideas just haven't been thought through by my opponent. I don't think
03:24:48
Andrew Wilsonhe's a bad person ultimately, though he does really advocate for a lot of degeneracy. Um, but what is what's new? What's he bringing you that's new? Like what what is he saying to you? He's
03:25:01
Andrew Wilsonsaying what um basically the only things I could really get out of him was switch up your preferences. And I don't really have a good definition of masculinity or a good definition of femininity. I don't have anything that's rigid. That sounds
03:25:13
Andrew Wilsonbasically like gender abolition essentially. That's what it sounded like to me. Okay, he's shaking his head. So yeah, probably something akin to that. This is all just progressive ideology repackaged. I actually care about
03:25:23
Andrew Wilsonincelss. I actually care about [ __ ] uh people, you know, men. I actually They don't give a [ __ ] Here's the thing, right? It all comes down to this. The truth is is that you, all of you in
03:25:36
Andrew Wilsonthis audience are a threat to progressive ideology. And so they're going to tell you that the people who are the closest to your ideology, who represent your worldview, uh are the bad guys and the enemy and this and that. And then when they give you the prescriptions, what do they give you?
03:25:50
Andrew Wilson[ __ ] nothing. What are the alternatives? He said, "I don't know. What should we do? I don't know what's masculinity. I don't know what's feminine. I don't know. Right? If I try to get a definition out of him, I'm being bad faith. If I debate too good,
03:26:02
Andrew WilsonI'm bad faith. If I do any of these things, I'm bad faith. If if I even want to finish a sentence, I'm bad faith. All of this just leads me to this. It comes from a state of ignorance. And he doesn't realize he's prescribing the
03:26:14
Andrew Wilsonsame [ __ ] that got us here to begin with. If we go back and we see the what does he say? He says the same thing feminists say to me all the time, right? He wants to take us back to the 1950s. And if you ask him like, okay, well,
03:26:25
Andrew Wilsonactually, let's just say I was. What's so bad about the 1950s anyway? Well, I don't know, you know, I don't know anything. I just I'm I don't know anything. I'm not really here to prescribe anything. I just [ __ ] don't
03:26:36
Andrew Wilsonknow nothing. And it's like, well, okay, that's fine. But the difference between this guy and Destiny is well, the thank god for him. He doesn't I hope I don't think you don't let you're not in an open relationship, right? Okay. Good.
03:26:50
Andrew WilsonGood. The difference between him and Destiny is like, yeah, maybe he doesn't let people plow his wife, but his prescriptions for things like this are just unfettered degeneracy. It's like do what do whatever you want. It's the Crowley and do as thou wilt. There is no
03:27:02
Andrew Wilsonduties. There is no virtues, right? All these things are very fluid. And then and then we just end up with well just kind of do what works. And it's like well then if that's the case the then
03:27:13
Andrew Wilsoneven if this didn't work, what alternative would work? I don't know. So the whole thing is incoherence. nonsense. It's not that I don't like this guy. It's just that like it's very
03:27:24
Andrew Wilsonfrustrating for me because I'm literally here to oppose this very ideology. And I don't even get the benefit of having him [ __ ] even tell me what it is cuz he doesn't know. And so it's like it's
03:27:36
Andrew Wilsonsitting there squeezing a tube of toothpaste, it moves there. Then he pin it down, it moves here. And so it's like, can I even match my worldview for prescriptions against his? I can't because I'm willing to give them and
03:27:46
Raphael Gomezhe's not. And that's it. Can I add one more thing? You can't add it after close, dude. If Andrew is willing to grant it otherwise, it's it's kind of in your benefit. I think I'm I'm trying to like So maybe I
03:28:00
Raphael Gomezdon't have the exact thing that I can prescribe to get out of the red pill. But if it is Christianity, if it is that kind of community, then I implore you to do that, you know, like that's totally fine. Oh, yeah. Well, let me ask this last question then since since I get the
03:28:12
Andrew Wilsonlast word on this one. Yeah. What if it's the case that Christianity was 10 times more oppressive towards women than anything the red pill wanted to do? But it made men feel a lot better. Would you prescribe it then? Probably not. Yeah, I
03:28:24
Andrew Wilsondidn't think so. So, yeah, he's right. Come over to Christianity, especially based based as traditional Christianity, they are way worse when it comes to the question of egalitarianism than any of
03:28:36
SPEAKER_04the [ __ ] Red Pillars could ever dream of. And he hates it. And he should. So, uh, before you leave here right now, Andrew, really quick, here's what we'll do. Um, so it sounds like you're both
03:28:48
SPEAKER_04open to doing a round two. Uh, so we'll maybe schedule that for a future date. And also, Andrew is going to take off, but guys, if you want to stay tuned for a little bit, Raphael is going to stick
03:29:00
SPEAKER_04around for a little bit and we're going to do a little roast session. And if any of you have any questions for Raphael, you're welcome to uh stay tuned. But Andrew needs to get some some Z's. He needs some Z's. I am sorry. I am sorry.
03:29:13
Andrew WilsonUnless you want a burger. I can get you. I'm always I'm always a good sport. I always stay for for all these shows and stuff, but I'm just so [ __ ] tired today because of all this travel. But I will see you tomorrow refreshed, right? And Brian doesn't know it yet, but he
03:29:25
SPEAKER_04needs me at my at my best. This is No, we do need Andrew fresh. And speaking of which, final thing here before Andrew leaves. We have Andrew for a debate tomorrow. On Friday, we have him for a
03:29:35
SPEAKER_04debate on Saturday. We're doing a dating talk panel Sunday. We have a debate on Monday and then we have a special show Tuesday on Tuesday. So, this is a long week. So, I know maybe you guys would have liked to have seen this go a bit
03:29:49
Andrew Wilsonlonger, but you know, we got to recuperate a bit. So, uh Andrew, thank you so much for coming. And for those of you who who might be listening, you're like, you know, [ __ ] Andrew is being a wuss. Look, I literally I didn't
03:30:00
Andrew Wilsonsleep. I haven't slept for basically 24 hours. I got off a plane and came right here to do this debate. So, like a little mercy from the chat. I know that all of them are going to spam L's anyway, and I deserve it, but little
03:30:12
SPEAKER_04mercy. You know what though? If M for mercy, if you guys keep the roast going for about 7 8 hours, once Andrew wakes up and if we're still going, that's probably not going to
03:30:24
SPEAKER_04happen. But, uh, Andrew, thank you for coming. We're going to continue the roast session. Always pleasure to have you. Uh, see you next time. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, you know, we need to put I feel like we need something there. But anyways, um I'm going to let some of the
03:30:36
SPEAKER_04there's more chats coming through. I'm going to let them come through. Uh let's see here, Raphael. Let's see what the viewers are saying. One sec, guys. It's
03:30:45
SPEAKER_04taking me a sec to uh get it pulled up here. We have a question from the Glockavius. He says, "This
03:30:57
Brian Atlas[Music] Glavius donated $69. Is it straight to date a transgender woman? Would you date a transgender woman? That uh that's for you. I
03:31:09
Raphael Gomezpersonally wouldn't and I I don't know. I think it's maybe it's it's in the queer territory. I have no idea. I don't know how to define it. Is it straight though? Uh I don't know. I don't know if how to I don't know if I'd be able to
03:31:20
SPEAKER_04define that. No. Andrew, grab one of those beers on your way out by the way. One of the beers from the refrigerator if you'd like. Okay. Thank you, Glavius, for that. Uh we have this. He has a follow-up question for you. Gloavius
03:31:32
Brian Atlasdonated $69. Do you think black people can be racist towards white people? Do you think women can be sexist towards men?
03:31:42
Raphael GomezIf not, define racism and sexism. Um, no. Because I think racism and sexism often involves prejudice plus power. So, if you're, let's say, I'm going to make an example, and this is a
03:31:54
Raphael Gomezwild example, but let's say you're afraid of a certain minority group. you don't want to walk on the same side of the street as them. I consider that prejudice. But if that same person comes in for a job at your company and you say, "No, I'm not going to hire you because of this." That's what I consider
03:32:06
SPEAKER_04racist. So, it's similar with sexism as well. Same for both. Same for both. Prejudice power. Prejudice plus power for their identity. Okay. All right. That's from Glactavius. Um, well, if not
03:32:18
SPEAKER_04Oh, well, you did define it then. You did define racism as sexism. Prejudice plus power. Is there any scenario in which a woman could be sexist towards a man? Uh, if she's empowered to do so, yes. Okay. So, she owns a company and
03:32:30
Brian Atlasshe refused to hire men. That would be sexist. Okay. All right. Uh, there's some consistency there. Then we have Arch Duke France. Archduke France Fartinand $69.
03:32:42
Brian AtlasA female politician said, "Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their sons in combat." Do you
03:32:53
Raphael Gomezagree that women are the primary victims of war? I mean, I think most men die in war, so I I don't see how they're the primary victims, but I do think war has
03:33:04
SPEAKER_04casualties for each gender, for sure. So, would you say men are the primary victims of war? I think so. I mean, do people say otherwise? Uh, well, so that quote's actually from uh Hillary
03:33:15
SPEAKER_04Clinton. Oh, she said that [ __ ] in the 90s and she actually repeated it again a like a year or two ago in relation to the Ukraine war. Um, women have always been the primary victims of war. That's
03:33:28
Raphael Gomezwhat she said. Would you agree with Do you agree with her or disagree? I don't think I agree with that, but I haven't put any more thought into it. But I just feel like if men are the mass casualties of war, then they're probably the biggest victim, I would imagine. Just
03:33:39
SPEAKER_04from a quick thought. We got more chats coming through. Really quick though before we do that, uh guys, Venmo, Cash App, whatever pot if you want 100% of your contribution to go towards the show, like the video, please. Also, mayor, if you could pull up Twitch,
03:33:51
SPEAKER_04guys, go to twitch.tv/ whatever on your way out if you're if you're leaving the stream. Uh, you know, maybe me and Raphael are going to get into a little debate here. Who knows? Uh, I'd love that. Drop us a follow and a prime sub
03:34:03
SPEAKER_04on. Guys, it's been 46 minutes. I think it's bugged, boys. I think it's bugged. Twitch pro uh the Twitch subs are bugged. Can somebody check if there's a little Twitch Prime in the chat? DreamBanger TV. Thank for the Prime though. Drop us a follow in the Prime
03:34:17
SPEAKER_04sub over there on Twitch. Would really appreciate it. Also, discord.gg shop.weather.com. We're doing a $69 roast session. Get it in. If you want to roast, you can roast me. It's really cheap, guys. Roast Raphael. Roast. Roast
03:34:28
SPEAKER_04Raphael. Maybe roast him a little bit. Boy, better cook. Let's go. You roast him. Roast him. All right. We have tone police patriarchy. Here we go. Thank you for this. Oh, thank you for that. Tone
03:34:40
Brian Atlaspolice patriarchy donated $69. Reformed feminist here. Red pill saved me. Feminist ideology brought several of my peers to take matters into
03:34:51
Raphael Gomeztheir own hands. Your view of red pill is incorrect. Dig deeper, please. Great show, gentlemen. Thank you, Tone. Police patriarchy. That's interesting. I mean,
03:35:02
Raphael Gomezlook, if whatever ideology is driving you to be depressed, lonely, isolated, um, angry, you know, I would prescribe you get away from it. If, you know, I don't know, I I just know the statistics
03:35:15
Raphael Gomezand the peer-reviewed studies say that red pill, uh, you know, content um, creators kind of create that in their audience. And, um, that's what every study kind of says. So, and I think this loneliness epidemic is only going to
03:35:28
Raphael Gomezlead to more men unalivives. And that's what I don't want because I know what it's like to feel depressed. I know what it's like to feel like you don't want to keep going. And so I want to help people um find a way out of that.
03:35:39
SPEAKER_04Do you think uh do you think that feminism is sort of is similar to red pill or do you think they're different in in the there's a difference of advocacy of what they're talking about, but you think it's like the counter
03:35:51
Raphael Gomezimage? No, I think Missandry is probably the closest thing to what red pill is because I don't think there's necessarily an equivalent for women on that side. But I do think that my personal definition of feminism and I
03:36:03
Raphael Gomezthink a lot of people's today is just equal opportunity regardless of outcome. Um so that's what I view as feminism. Equal opportunity. Would you be in favor of uh the draft, military draft for
03:36:13
SPEAKER_04women? Um I don't consider that equal opportunity. What What do you mean? Um, for example, an opportunity would be um, well, yeah, I I ag Well, I don't think the draft is an opportunity for men or
03:36:25
SPEAKER_04women. Agreed. Agreed. So, I'm not really talking about equality of opportunity, but it would be equality if both men and women were subject to, but I'm not I'm not pushing for necessarily full equality. I'm pushing for equal
03:36:38
Raphael Gomezbecause that's not my definition. My definition is equal opportunity. If a man has the opportunity to do something and a woman is just as capable of doing said thing, then do it. Now, in in my definition, if you're talking about
03:36:49
Raphael Gomezconscription, if a woman is as capable of a soldier as somebody else and the country decides that's what that's, you know, that's what we should go, then go for it. But I don't think we should just start drafting anybody. I think it is about And also, for the record, do you
03:37:01
Raphael Gomezknow how many what percentage of men were drafted for Vietnam? Uh, I think wasn't it like a couple hundred thousand? No, but what percentage of the male population at the time? It's like 2%. So, it's not that
03:37:13
SPEAKER_04big of a thing. And in the 20th century, only Hold on. It's not that big. I thought your whole thing here though was like I want to reduce the unaliviving rate of men. I want to reduce let's get rid of conscription.
03:37:24
SPEAKER_04Right. But you're saying it's not that big of a thing. I think the Vietnam veterans who were drafted who either are still alive who have PTSD or depression or who are homeless, whatever it is, or the ones who are dead probably disagree
03:37:37
Raphael Gomezwith you that it's a small thing. No, you're right. That I shouldn't have said it like that. I'm saying it's a small percentage of the population that it's not happening to the vast majority of men. So, I think the vast majority of men aren't ever going to be drafted. It's never going to be a thing. Simply
03:37:49
Raphael Gomezbecause in the 20th century, only 9% of the total male population has been drafted. So, that's still more than I'd like. Wait, in the in in the 20th century, only 9% of the male population has ever been drafted in US. That's a
03:38:01
SPEAKER_04lot of men. I agree, but it's not the majority. And it's not the vast majority. It's not even close. Well, all men have to register for the selected service. Agreed. So, there's inequalities. While I agree with you
03:38:14
SPEAKER_04that there might we might be in peace time or there might be periods of peace time where there's men aren't going to be drafted, there are still ramifications for not registering for the selective service. Sure. And all men have to register for
03:38:27
SPEAKER_04the selective service. One of the big things we were talking about was voting. In order to be eligible to vote as a man, you have to register for the selective service. Failure to do so precludes you from the ability to vote. Sure. I don't necessarily see that as an
03:38:40
Raphael Gomezopportunity. I see that as something I wish I'm just talking about equality in general, not but I'm not I'm not really prescribing equality across the board. I I'm saying equal opportunity. So if a man is able to make a decision in his
03:38:51
SPEAKER_04own life to do something and a woman is just as capable of doing the same thing, she should do it, too. I'll engage with you on equality of opportunity. Women have the opportunity to not be subject to the to selective service and force
03:39:03
SPEAKER_04military conscription. Seems like an opportunity, right? But so are you in favor of just abolishing the draft entirely? Ideally, yes. Okay. But do you think that that's uh politically tenable? I think so. I think we have a
03:39:17
Raphael Gomezlarge enough volunteer army. And I also think uh wars in the future aren't going to be necessarily boots on the ground. I think wars in in the future are going to be either cyber or they're going to be drones or they're going to be we have air superiority. I don't think it's
03:39:30
SPEAKER_04going to be boots on the ground unless something crazy happens. I mean, let's talk about the most the two most modern conflicts. So, you have the war in the Middle East and then you have the Ukraine war. Are there not boots on the ground? Are men not being drafted into
03:39:43
Raphael Gomezthese conflicts? Sure, but they're not being drafted. There wasn't a draft in in Iraq. There wasn't a draft in Afghanistan. These Well, I'm talking about Ukraine and and I'm talking about the United States. Oh, you're talking about the United States? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. There hasn't been a draft
03:39:55
Raphael Gomezsince Vietnam, right? But in Ukraine, there there is forced military conscription and they abduct men into the in the streets. I don't agree to that. I mean, maybe if it's like things are so dire, that's what we have to do. I mean, I I hope we never get to that
03:40:06
Raphael Gomezpoint, but in an ideal world, we have a large enough in the US, we have a large enough volunteer army, and we have technological um advancements that are are superior to our adversaries. So, um I don't think it's going to be a boots
03:40:19
SPEAKER_04on the ground war unless something crazy happens to the world. Yeah. But so given so I mean we can talk about should the draft go away but since it is a reality the draft is a reality or selective
03:40:31
Raphael Gomezservice is a reality. Should shouldn't women be obligated to uh sign up as well? I don't think so. No. Why? Um I think because men are more capable in war. That's why. And I think that's what
03:40:42
SPEAKER_04you'd rather have. Yeah. But I mean for So I I saw a stat and I maybe somebody in the military in the chat can weigh in. In order to field one combat
03:40:53
SPEAKER_04soldier, you need 10 uh support roles in the military. Yeah. So if you want like frontline combat soldier, you need 10 people uh in support roles,
03:41:04
SPEAKER_04administration to enable that uh one individual on the front line. So there are roles that women could serve in the even look, even if women were subject to force military conscription, it's
03:41:14
SPEAKER_04probably unlikely that they would encounter uh frontline combat. I personally think that's still unequal. I guess I would accept that they should at least be subject to force military conscription, but there's plenty of
03:41:25
Raphael Gomezroles in the military that women can, you know, the the pencil pushers. Pencil pushers. Well, here's what I'll say. I think men should still be the primary people that have to serve. I mean, again, I I if I could get rid of, you
03:41:39
Raphael Gomezknow, the draft, I would if we have just a volunteer army and technological advancements to to combat our enemies. But should a draft, if something terrible happens and we have to draft, I still think primarily let's draft men
03:41:49
Raphael Gomezbecause they're more capable at combat and in the front lines. But if we desperately need the help and women can be in the support role, then you know, maybe that's a discussion to have.
03:42:00
SPEAKER_04Honestly, I think we should just draft women for frontline combat. I don't think that's a good idea. That That's kind of sexist of you. I don't think I'm
03:42:11
Raphael GomezI don't think I'm preventing this. No, you don't believe in strong independent boss babes. I do. And if there are women in my in my definition of feminism, if there are women who would like to go to the front lines because they feel
03:42:22
SPEAKER_04capable enough, then go for it. But I'm not saying they should be forced to. I think I honestly we draft them. It's kind of like, you know, we've had hundreds hundreds thousands of years of forced military conscription for men. Maybe just like test it out for like a
03:42:35
SPEAKER_04century. Just send the women to war. You're not serious though, right? And we should teleise it. This isn't for you're not for real, right? This isn't for real. I mean, look, if this this idea that men
03:42:47
SPEAKER_04are better suited for for war. Yeah. Yeah, you're you're right. But what if everybody just we all agreed and let's just let the women do a bit of the fighting for a century.
03:42:58
SPEAKER_04It's just women versus women. So, it's kind of, you know, Oh, I see what you're saying. It's not women across the board. Like I think equal for the equality of opportunity, we should allow women to
03:43:08
SPEAKER_04have post-traumatic stress disorder and you know just like get a get a artillery shell in the in the the gullet. I'm in favor. What would the men be doing? We
03:43:20
SPEAKER_04would be uh what what are the women doing in Ukraine? We'd be on Tinder sleeping with the the women who didn't get drafted. We would uh we would be
03:43:30
Raphael Gomezkicking it. We'd be kicking it. we'd be uh mowing lawns and [ __ ] And I mean, that is an interesting hypothetical, but um you're not for it, you know? I'm not I'm not because again,
03:43:43
Raphael Gomezmy loose definition of masculinity is doing the right thing because it's the right thing. And I think men Yeah. What's the right thing? The right thing in this situation is protect women. That's what I feel like. Protect women.
03:43:53
SPEAKER_04Yes. I I think the right thing would be in the event of a war, all the countries just agree. All countries agree. Okay, we're just going to have women, you know, we're all feminists now. We're going to have the women fight. Just test
03:44:05
Raphael Gomezit out. And then, but we get to televise it, too. I mean, we already do that with the war. I I just don't think that's necessarily feminism. I mean, here's a loose example. The women get to fight. No, it's an equal opportunity. It's not It's
03:44:18
SPEAKER_04an equal opportunity to die. That's not an opportunity that No one thinks being the front line is an opportunity opportunity for women to die. No, I certainly don't. That is misogynistic,
03:44:28
Raphael Gomezsir. I want you to apologize to all the women watching that you don't want equal opportunity for women to die. So, the way I see it, and this is a stupid example, but it's the first one I that came to mind. If you're on an airplane
03:44:40
Raphael Gomezand you see someone struggling to put their their suitcase up, do you get up and do it? If if I see somebody struggling on in the carry-on, what what I don't I'm just asking when
03:44:52
Raphael Gomezyou're on an airplane, do you and you see someone struggling? I'm not even I'm not even saying anybody. I'm not even saying a gender. I'm not saying anything. If someone is struggling, sure, I'll help. That's kind of how I
03:45:02
Raphael Gomezfeel masculinity is. I'm capable enough to do this thing. I should do it. That's how I feel. I think we should help women get drafted into the military and let them do a bit of the dying. I don't
03:45:15
SPEAKER_04believe you. I think they should I think the women should do a bit of Trump hands. Are these your Trump hands? Okay. I think we should have some of the women do a bit of the dying just to equal it
03:45:25
SPEAKER_04out a little bit. you know, a little bit of shell shock, little, you know, a little bit of uh mortars. Let them experience some mortars. Trench warfare. Trench warfare is back in Ukraine. They
03:45:37
SPEAKER_04got trenches. You see the drones dropping the the grenades. You seen that? Yeah. Let's maybe look equal. Uh let's get women to do it. I I I don't I don't agree. I don't agree. Deb, I'm the
03:45:49
SPEAKER_04real I'm the actual real feminist here. You you seem like a bit of a red pill podcast, bro, with your, you know, men are supposed to men are supposed to protect women.
03:46:02
Raphael GomezThat's very, you know, that's I think I think men should protect the innocent and I think men should protect people that can't protect themselves. That's what I believe. When So, the women are the innocent and the men are what? The devils. No, if what are the men? I'm not
03:46:15
SPEAKER_04saying men are I'm not giving a judgment on men. I'm not giving a judgment on anybody necessarily, but if somebody can't defend themselves, I think men should. That's all. Men men should. Yeah. No, but that's why I'm saying with the war, we just make that [ __ ] all
03:46:27
SPEAKER_04women. We have a United Nations. We have them agree. Okay. For the next hundred years, all the men, you know, they're not going to fight. We're going to send the women to fight.
03:46:38
Raphael GomezI think that you're not on board with that. Do you get on board with that? Do you think that would be You're not on board with that? I'm not. Do you think that would be good for the general population and in terms of us, you know,
03:46:49
SPEAKER_04continuing our population? Do you think that would be a good thing? Yeah, it'd be good. Okay. It'd be good. Okay. Yeah. You know, you send you send the feminists to fight. Send the feminists to fight or send the anti-natalist cuz
03:47:02
SPEAKER_04like look, if if you're a woman and you're pregnant, you can you can get out of it. But don't you want women to be getting pregnant during this time? Look, we're going to put a cap. Only 10% only
03:47:13
Raphael Gomez10% of the women can fight. That's it. We won't send more. Just 10%. That's it. That's a weird rule when you're having a war where you're like, "Hey, we're only going to send 10% of our troops. You guys agree to that?" I don't I just don't think that works. I mean, again, I
03:47:26
SPEAKER_04don't think anyone would. Well, 10% of the population in this hypothetical, 10% of the population. So, uh, just why? But don't you think we should send women I don't war? Why not? I don't I just don't because I don't think they think they're
03:47:37
SPEAKER_04capable. I I think men are more capable in war. Men are more capable in war. Okay. All right. We got some chats coming through, but I got some more I got some more things I want to talk to you about. Okay. All right. Let me let some of the chats through. Sorry for the
03:47:49
SPEAKER_04delay, guys, but I'm sitting next to a misogynist who doesn't want women drafted, and it's really frustrating. I'm really upset by this whole, you know, this the sexism is just I feel the sexism coming from you, man. It's a
03:48:02
Brian Atlaslittle It's a little upsetting to me, but okay. I'm really clothing. It's really donated $69, dude. With the exception of you soy boy libs as your target audience, you
03:48:13
Brian Atlashave absolutely not a chance in hell in changing any man's mind. Red pill plus Christian ethics equals society's salvation. I already have changed people's minds,
03:48:24
Brian Atlasbut that's okay. You know what? Oh, wait. Never mind. Okay. Selena Gour donated $69. The red bill is the alternative.
03:48:36
Brian AtlasIt's the rejection of do what you want all the time and that is what isn't working. Have standards. Hold men and women to those standards. Seek Christ. Are you are you a religious man? Are you
03:48:49
Brian Atlasuh I was raised Catholic but no. You're agnostic. You're a I call it agnostic. Agnostic. Okay. Jason Castle donated $69. Feminist man. I will literally fight
03:49:01
Brian Atlasyou. Brian set up this fight. Oh my god. Andrew. This is why I don't consider myself a good debater because I would have fought this dummy. Make a class on how to be patient. Wow. I don't know,
03:49:12
SPEAKER_04Jason. I got some hands, dude. I don't know. Were Were you getting angry at Andrew during There was a moment there where you told him to shut the [ __ ] up and I thought you were about to get up.
03:49:23
Raphael GomezNo. And throw some hands. No, it's Andrew yells that all the time. I'm just giving him his own medicine. You gave him a taste. Okay, that's it. I'm I was pretty calm through the whole thing. All right. Uh, look, we got another chat coming in.
03:49:36
Brian AtlasNameless. Thank you for it. Nameless name seven donated $69. Yo, Rafa, you seem like a decent person, but you need to think for yourself and stop letting the world
03:49:47
Raphael Gomezshape your opinions. You say you want people to leave Red Pill, but you also prescribe it. I don't see how I prescribed it beyond saying, "Hey, if it's working for you, if you're living a
03:49:59
Raphael Gomezhappy life, if you're getting what you want out of relationships and friendships, okay, I'm not going to tell you to change. But if you're not, I'm prescribing you consider alternatives. That's all I'm saying. You know, this is
03:50:10
Raphael Gomezwhat I think is going to happen. You do that second debate with Andrew. I think you might become red pill." It's not going to happen. I think it could happen. I love my life too much. I just don't know why I would switch. My life
03:50:22
Raphael Gomezis great. I live in Orange County. Your life would be even better. It can't be. It might be better. I live in Orange County. I have two great dogs. I have a wonderful wife. I'm happy with my life. I don't know. I don't know why I would need anything else. Wait, how how old
03:50:34
SPEAKER_04are you, by the way? Just uh I turned 41 in August. 41. Okay. And uh you don't want kids. Is that correct? That's correct. And And how old does
03:50:43
SPEAKER_04your wife feel my music? Um she's 30. She'll be 38. Okay. And did you like when you started dating her, did you know going in like or maybe both of you
03:50:54
SPEAKER_04had a conversation you don't want kids? Yeah, it we started that early. Yeah, we started that conversation early. But how are you going to build more blue pill that you said your blue pill, right? How are you going to
03:51:06
SPEAKER_04have more blue? You got to because if if you know the Christians are are out, you know, having more kids. Well, here's what I'll say to that. I don't think necessarily. The dogs can't be blue
03:51:17
Raphael Gomezpill. Dogs are red pill. Honestly, my dogs are red pill, dude. My dogs are My dogs are Trumpers. It's really What breed? What breed? Uh, I got a lab mix and a lab. Red pill, dude. They're super
03:51:29
Raphael Gomezmad. What's the other one? Uh, he's like a a hound mix. A hound? Oh, that's very red pill. Red pill. They're very red pill. They knew they told me when I came here I was going to lose it to Andrew. Yeah, dude. It's really [ __ ] up. You speak to dogs. I speak to dogs. That's
03:51:41
Raphael Gomezpart of the blue pill. But um one of the things that uh I'll say oh wait you had something serious a second ago. Oh about having kids. I I don't necessarily think and I think a lot of parents would agree that just because you have a kid doesn't mean the kid is going to follow your
03:51:54
Raphael Gomezworldview. A lot of kids are born into religious families and then they end up being atheists. So I think you can't say I'm going to make more people cuz they're going to follow my ideology. I want to take care of the people that
03:52:04
Raphael Gomezexist today and have them consider a different ideology. That's why you gota you can't let them have a smartphone until they're 18. Hey, look. I think that Hey, I didn't have a smartphone
03:52:16
SPEAKER_04till I was 18 and I stopped being Catholic. So, yeah. That's not cuz smartones weren't around, you know, at the time. But, uh, and I got to say, look, I I got a flip phone when I was in high school. Nice. And, uh, so you were
03:52:28
SPEAKER_04rich. I Oh, yeah. Just piles of money with my little shitty Samsung or whatever it was. I'm just kidding, man. Um, but uh, you know, I I kind of feel bad for the kids today.
03:52:40
SPEAKER_04Like at 10 years old, you got you got access. I agree. Great. Well, you know what though? I had the internet. I had the internet, but the internet back then wasn't what it is today. In the 2000s, the internet there was some crazy [ __ ]
03:52:52
Raphael GomezYeah. I mean, the thing is even like to get a little more serious, but like the people that are finding Red Pill, it's because the YouTube algorithm is often recommending it to people. It just kind of like happens. They just like go on YouTube and all of a sudden now they're
03:53:04
SPEAKER_04redpilled. Yeah. You know the thing is though is like feminism is mainstreamed. That [ __ ] is forced down your [ __ ] throat. And I'll tell you this. I'll tell you this, Raphael. Let me tell you about the feminism. Okay, here's the
03:53:17
SPEAKER_04thing about the feminism. You got the university, you got colleges, every single university college in this country. Let me tell you, every single one has a woman's studies, a feminist
03:53:28
SPEAKER_04studies, a gender, a gender studies program. I'm telling you, it's indoctrination. the feminism mind virus indoctrinated into these women into these men. Did you take a feminism You
03:53:40
SPEAKER_04went to college, right? You got a you got a bachelor's of arts of advertising. Did you take a feminism class in college? You took feminism, did you? Tell us the truth. You took feminism class. I think you did. No. And I don't remember being indoctrinated to anything
03:53:52
Raphael Gomezin college. In fact, I went to college in the panhandle of Florida, which is very [ __ ] red. No, that's base. And I don't remember having any. How did you turn out like this? Well, I thought for myself as as your as your guy from
03:54:02
SPEAKER_04[ __ ] Florida and you became a feminist. What the [ __ ] And it was a It wasn't Florida right now. It was Florida 20 [ __ ] years ago. Exactly. Yeah. And I'm telling you, like the guy said, I just learned a thing for myself. Am I being cringe or is it kind of funny? I
03:54:16
Brian Atlasthink it's kind of funny. It's kind of funny. All right. All right. We got more chats coming through. More chats. All right. None. Thank you very much. Nonated $69. Thank you. Depressed and angry people search out RP who can be
03:54:27
Brian Atlasbitter and hateful. Ellie, long-term RP is amazing for men. It pushes to get a great vetted partner. Go to the gym, get a job, and get a social life. Hey, Anan, if that's what you're getting out of it,
03:54:40
Raphael Gomezthat's great. I mean, I think going to the gym is great. Taking care of your body is great. I think having a great social life is great. I think picking a good partner is great. Josh Brooks donated 69 coming in here. Thank you. So, don't think it's a good idea for
03:54:51
Brian Atlaswomen to be in combat, but are okay with them going if they want. What would it look like to you if it was 50/50 women to men boots on ground? Describe that plaza. What would it look like? I mean,
03:55:04
Raphael Gomezit would look like 50/50. I don't know. I don't know what it would look like. I mean, ideally, men would probably be more in the combat roles. Um, because I again, I think they're more capable in that scenario. Um, but if some terrible
03:55:16
SPEAKER_04thing happens and women have to go too, well then I hope they're supportive. That's that's kind of how I see it. I You know what? So, okay. When it comes to duties though, so men, we were
03:55:28
SPEAKER_04talking about the draft earlier. Yeah. And this, you would agree is a duty that men have that women don't. Which part? A conscription. Yeah. Conscription.
03:55:38
SPEAKER_04Uh at at most 10% of men have that duty. Yes. Well, all men are uh are subject to the potentiality That's correct. Of the draft. That's correct. I agree with you.
03:55:50
SPEAKER_04Not all men will be drafted. Most men won't be drafted ever. Uh but they do still have to register for the selective service. If they don't, there's certain uh there it's technically a felony.
03:56:02
SPEAKER_04There's a fine. You can't uh reg you can't get certain federal student student loans. There's certain federal jobs that you're barred from if you fail to register. And uh I think there's
03:56:13
SPEAKER_04maybe one or two other things that are evading me right now. But um I'm just I'm curious
03:56:20
SPEAKER_04though what like what duty do women have to to either men or to society? I I just don't necessarily prescribe duty if I'm
03:56:32
Raphael Gomezlegally obligated a duty that's different than what I think is just an inherent duty. Something that you're just coming to this world without anyone asking if you want to be here and being prescribed duties out the off the gate.
03:56:43
Raphael GomezI don't necessarily think I I don't believe that if there are duties. Do you not believe that? I don't believe that you inherently have duties just because you're born.
03:56:54
SPEAKER_04But I mean, so every single male in the United States once they turn 18 have to register for the selective service. And an entailment of that is in the event of some wartime conflict where a draft
03:57:06
SPEAKER_04where there is a draft someone could be forced to go and die. go and die or serve in the military. That's a duty. What that's that's a exclusively male duty. What duties do
03:57:20
Raphael Gomezwomen have? But it's through the legal system. If the legal system changed that, then it wouldn't be a duty anymore. So yeah, sure. I agree. So if we didn't have that anymore, it would no longer be a duty. And I don't necessarily think men have a duty
03:57:31
Raphael Gomezoutside of anything legal. If my personal worldview is that men should help whoever they can because they're capable of it. Whoever is the most capable should help. That's what I feel. No. Like, do men have a duty to protect
03:57:43
Raphael Gomezwomen? No. If a guy decides he doesn't want men don't have a duty to protect I don't necessarily think everyone has that duty. I think men I think men who subscribe to my version of masculinity, they would feel that need, but not
03:57:54
Raphael Gomezeverybody would. Do you think men should protect women? In my in an ideal world, yes. But I'm not going to say you must, you know, like I don't I don't believe I don't believe in must. Um, so I think it's the same thing with women cuz I
03:58:06
Raphael Gomezknow a lot of people say, "Well, if men have to do this thing, then women's duty should be birth because that's what they do." And I just don't think we should see women that way personally. I have a question for you. Um, when it when it
03:58:18
SPEAKER_04does come to the draft, and I know it sounds like you would like to abolish the draft. Is that fair? Ideally, yeah. Okay. But given that governments and nations will not relinquish the ability