Andrew Wilson vs. Feminists (HEATED)?! MAGA Girls?! VlRGlN?! NEAR KICK?! | Dating Talk #151

Date: 2024-04-10

Duration: 6h 38m

Guests

Brian Atlas

NNorthy (DT151)>

KKenna (DT151)>

CCarly (DT151)>

NNicole (DT151)>

CCaroline (DT151)>

IIsabelle Brown >

AAndrew Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00TTS/Background Voice(audience)

SPEAKER_01TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)(audience)

SPEAKER_02Nicole(guest)

SPEAKER_03Luce(guest)

SPEAKER_04Caroline(guest)

SPEAKER_05Kenna(guest)

SPEAKER_06Northy(guest)

SPEAKER_09Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_10Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_12Isabelle Brown(guest)

SPEAKER_13Carly(guest)

SPEAKER_14Arya Riley(guest)

Key Moments

IntroBrian introduces the panel; Arya Riley refuses to share her age triggering a ~20 minute standoff.

“"please tell us your name age location and occupation"”

ControversyArya Riley refuses to share her age for ~20 minutes citing "mystery" strategy from Robert Greene's Art of Seduction. Brian threatens to kick her off the show. She eventually says "I'm 22" as a lie. Pre-show casting indicated 29.

“"I just don't share that... it's part of my mystery... my appeal"”

QuoteBrian threatens to remove Arya from show if she refuses to share her age.

“"if the choice is between revealing your age and me kicking you off the show right now which do you choose"”

QuoteArya discloses her sugar daddy has sent approximately $26k total in cash and gifts including paying her rent, before they even met in person ($12k sent before first meeting).

“"I would guess in cash like 20,000 and then maybe in gifts... my rent's on auto pay too"”

OtherArya Riley explains the origin of her viral boat TikTok video: met a ~65yo man at a bar the night she was fired from a strip club; he invited her and a friend sailing; not a sugar daddy.

“"I had just gotten fired from the strip club and we went out... he invited us to go sailing"”

ControversyLuce argues women were historically excluded from the workforce until wartime. Andrew and panel correct this claim; women were teachers, nurses, clerical workers throughout history.

“"until war time women weren't allowed in the workforce"”

ControversyAndrew Wilson argues from the transcript that women historically fought against suffrage because they did not want to incur debt or be conscripted. Luce pushes back on revisionist framing.

“"the anti-suffragettes... didn't want to be drafted... didn't want to incur debt"”

ControversyBrian plays a clip of a previous female guest calling him "white boy" to dismiss his argument. Long debate follows on whether this is racism or prejudice.

“"white boy... you've never experienced racism in history white people haven't experienced racism"”

OtherIsabelle Brown opens abortion discussion and challenges panel on body autonomy argument; notes life begins at conception biologically; compares selective abortion to eugenics logic. She leaves the show shortly after (~3 hour mark).

“"isn't that the same line of thinking that eugenicists have used throughout all of human history"”

QuoteIsabelle Brown makes closing statement before leaving due to flight: remains optimistic about her generation; grateful for the conversation.

“"I remain really optimistic about the future of this generation"”

OtherSelf-ratings round: Andrew Wilson rates himself a 4; Northy gives DC 10 / California 7 joke.

“"ask everyone to rate their looks physical looks on a scale of 1 to 10"”

ControversyNorthy calls production staff member Gustavo "a pathetic little baby loser" on air; Andrew Wilson reacts sharply in defense of Gustavo.

“"is Nick a loser Nick is such a fucking loser what the fuck... Gustavo are you a loser"”

ControversyAndrew Wilson challenges Nicole to provide secular moral grounds for why necrophilia is wrong; Nicole says she has no grounds beyond personal opinion; Andrew uses this to argue secular morality has no epistemic foundation.

“"if a society democratically voted that people are allowed to screw dead bodies you have nothing other than your personal opinion to justify why they shouldn't do it"”

OtherAndrew invites Nicole and Luce to come to his studio for a formal 1v1 debate with no interruptions; Brian announces Andrew returning to studio next Sunday and Tuesday.

“"go in studio have a one v one debate... it'll be well moderated"”

QuoteArya Riley complains her spine is hurting due to large breast size during heated debate; Brian draws attention to it.

“"my spine is screaming"”

OtherBrian reads rapid-fire closing hot take statements covering dating norms, feminism, body count, plastic surgery, age-gap relationships, male oppression (military conscription), and male privilege; ends with genital shaming joke.

“"women have dating on easy mode... only traditional women deserve traditional treatment... feminism is not about equality it's about securing benefits for women"”

OtherEnd of show: Brian does Twitch double-raid to stay-safe and WowGrandma78 (82yo WoW streamer). Andrew Wilson redirects viewers to his YouTube channel. Northy promotes her YouTube channel "Hard Ones" after doing a bow (after calling Brian "baby girl").

“"I'm going to do a double raid... WowGrandma78... she's 82 she plays World of Warcraft"”

Topics Discussed

Guest introductions

Guests introduce name, age, location, occupation. Notable: Arya Riley refuses to share her age (~20 minute standoff with Brian). Brian threatens to remove her from show. Isabelle Brown returning guest; now engaged. Carly discloses she was previously only attracted to women.

Age mystery standoff — Arya Riley

Arya Riley refuses to share her age citing "mystery" strategy from Art of Seduction. Brian spends ~20 minutes pressing her. She eventually says "I'm 22" as a lie. Pre-show casting indicated age 29. Chat donates to push back. Isabelle Brown and Northy discuss the OnlyFans mystery/fantasy-selling angle. Brian points out contradiction: posting nude content but hiding age.

Relationship status and sugar daddy arrangement

Brian goes around table for relationship status. Arya Riley describes her sugar daddy arrangement: ~$26k total from man who found her via Instagram after a bikini contest video. He sent $12k before they ever met in person. Paid her rent. Brian asks how many sugar daddies she's had total; she declines to estimate. Northy: single since August 2023; no relationship; career focused. Kenna: in 5-month relationship. Carly: single; complicated history with first male partner after being lesbian.

Viral boat video (Arya Riley)

Brian plays two TikTok videos from Arya Riley's account. First: shows her with an older white man — not a sugar daddy; met at a bar the night she was fired from strip club. He invited her and a friend sailing. Video went viral. Second (boat one): Brian plays with audio; she sings; older man is on a sailboat with her.

Partner income requirements

Brian asks each guest minimum income requirement in a partner. Kenna: $100k minimum; wants luxury lifestyle, travel, 3-4 bedroom house. Arya Riley: no minimum per hour; wants man who can provide; had negative experience with wage-gap relationships. Carly (UCSB poli sci/barista): wants comparable income (~barista level currently; higher for long-term). Caroline: equitable contribution, livable income for the area. Luce: love first; partnership/shared financial planning; flexible on who earns more. Isabelle Brown: priorities shift as wedding nears; simple life more appealing.

Marriage and kids intent round

Isabelle Brown asks who still wants to get married and have kids. Almost everyone raises hands; Northy: would consider marriage but not kids (kids might ruin relationship). Andrew Wilson notes apparent contradiction between wanting traditional marriage outcomes while still having modern financial requirements. Isabelle says she is surprised and gratified that most still want marriage.

Women in history and workforce

Luce claims women weren't allowed in the workforce until WWII. Andrew corrects her: women were nurses, teachers, clerical workers throughout history. Discussion of why women lack corporate ladder presence (fewer female CEOs). Andrew: women don't gravitate toward that kind of competitive corporate environment. Brief discussion of women's college enrollment exceeding men's (60/40 split).

Feminism: definition debate

Debate over what feminism means. Andrew offers "most charitable" definition: belief in egalitarianism and equality under law. Panel mostly declines the feminist label. Northy: prefers justice over equality; equity framing; subjective moral metric. Luce: progressive but avoids labels. Andrew's test: does being a stay-at-home mom hold women back? Most say no; Andrew argues that disqualifies most from being modern feminists.

Nuclear family and stay-at-home mothers

Andrew Wilson argues nuclear family is the optimal societal unit; requires stay-at-home mothers during formative years. Luce pushes back: individual relationships should determine dynamics. Andrew counters with population data and birth rate decline. Northy and Luce argue stay-at-home model is subjective and not universally optimal. Panel divided on whether career or motherhood should be prioritized.

Racism debate: can you be racist against white people?

Brian plays a clip of a prior female guest calling him "white boy" to dismiss his arguments. Panel debates whether that is racism or prejudice. Nicole and Luce: racism requires institutional power; calling Brian "white boy" is prejudice not racism. Andrew Wilson and Brian: by moral equivalence, prejudice equally bad as racism; double standard. Knockout game discussion (Andrew: specific anti-white crime pattern). Extended Andrew vs. Nicole/Luce debate on social constructs, material reality, and definitions. Brian: women benefit most from affirmative action (specifically white women).

Misogyny accusation and podcast defense

Luce argues the Whatever Podcast is misogynistic in tone and framing. Andrew and Brian push back: misogyny requires hatred, not disagreement. Luce raises friend who appeared on show and received hate online. Brian plays back a clip of that previous female guest calling him "white boy." Panel debates double standards in public discourse and cancel culture. Brian: UCSB feminist studies program perpetuates ideology; universities are ideologically captured.

Abortion debate

Isabelle Brown opens abortion discussion near end of her time on show. Luce: pro-choice under privacy clause; personally would not get one. Arya Riley: 100% pro-choice given her experience in the industry. Northy: pro-choice; references medical complexity of abortion timelines. Nicole: pro-choice; debate between her and Isabelle on soul/personhood. Isabelle: pro-life; life begins at conception (biomedical + theological). Andrew: references Christian ethic against abortion. Discussion of late-term abortion rarity and gender-selective abortion.

Self-ratings round (1-10 looks)

Brian asks everyone to rate their looks 1-10. Northy: 7 (California 7, DC 10/12 joke). Nicole: 8 to 8.5. Carly: 7-8 (implied from order). Arya: declined. Caroline: 4 area (implied). Andrew Wilson: 4. Luce, Kenna: not clearly extracted.

Can you be sexist toward men / misandry debate

Andrew asks panel if misandry exists. Nicole: individual sexism toward men exists but not systemic misandry. Northy: admits she has gone through "I hate men" phase stemming from unresolved trauma. Extended Andrew debate with Nicole on definitions of prejudice vs racism vs misandry. Brian points out Northy insulted Gustavo (staff) calling him a loser during episode.

Moral relativism: necrophilia thought experiment

Andrew Wilson asks Nicole and Luce for their moral justification for why necrophilia is wrong. Nicole says it is wrong because it is personally wrong to her — no universal justification. Andrew pushes: if society democratically allowed it, what grounds to oppose it? Nicole: I would disagree personally; would leave the country. Andrew: this reveals there is no epistemological grounding for secular morality. Extended philosophical debate. Andrew invites Nicole and Luce to come to his studio for a formal 1v1 debate.

Body count round

Brian asks body counts. Luce: under 10 (includes women). Northy: under 10 (explicitly "under 15" in order; some ambiguity). Arya: unclear/declined. Nicole: 1 (lost virginity at 21; couple months into relationship). Carly: 1 (first male partner at ~21 after being a lesbian; girl partners implied but not counted). Isabelle Brown: indirectly declined to answer (already left). Andrew Wilson: declined; chat member (kill cereal) announces being a virgin waiting for marriage.

Would you date a trans woman / trans dating question

Brian asks would you object to a man not wanting to date a trans woman? Nicole: no objection as long as he is not being cruel; it is a personal preference. Discussion of whether post-op trans women are fully indistinguishable. Panel broadly agrees it is an acceptable personal preference without transphobia.

Andrew Wilson closing hot takes

Brian reads out rapid-fire hot takes at show end. Women on dating easy mode vs men; makeup as deception; traditional women deserve traditional treatment; men should not pay on first dates; men with high body counts can desire low body count women; plastic surgery makes women look worse; feminism is about securing female benefits; men have been more oppressed (military conscription argument); no male privilege in totality; age-gap relationships between consenting adults are fine.

Transcript

Page 4 of 7

Brian Atlasthat for you well wait until but she wants she wants to she wants to take back your right I think it's we tell other people what to do but that's and I'm not I'm not f

Isabelle Brownthis is a great opportunity to like start a dialogue and realize nine in 10 voters under the age of 45 in America believe there should be at least some restrictions on the abortion industry that's a dramatically different picture

Isabelle Brownthan what you see in one Twitter post or one Tik Tok video or what one presidential candidate might say that's a lot of common ground for us to start a great dialogue about and that's exactly what I'm seeing tonight look we have very different World Views some of you don't want to have children I'm very

Isabelle Brownexcited about having children and I think that's a beautiful aspect of Womanhood that's often being erased from society some of you are creators on only fans I personally don't agree with that particular life choice I'm curious to unpack why you do that and if there's a

Isabelle Brownpath for you to get off the platform I would love to talk about that but I'm I'm the first person to acknowledge that owning each other and creating content specifically designed to demonize each other does absolutely nothing to get us on the first step to having that

Isabelle Brownconversation in the first place and what I love about this podcast historically is we've had the opportunity to do just that to say hey I'm really not okay with where culture is at today I might disagree with you on how we got here I

Isabelle Brownmight disagree with you on where where we're going forward but we can never create a path forward if we don't just sit and acknowledge that we're all miserable in what leftism has done for a society and that's what I've heard throughout the entire conversation

Isabelle Browntonight we're miserable that Society has demonized marriage we're miserable that Society has demonized children we're miserable about the pornography industry which is a powerful thing that nobody likes to talk about everybody just says

NorthyAh jenz is this degenerate horrible leftist culture sure that's not what I'm hearing I think people need to really acknowledge like the the bad things that come with porn you can't just like brush everything off and act like everything's

Northyfine I completely agree with you like there are like negatives that come with porn just like anything else there is a huge porn problem there's a huge porn consumption problem there's a huge problem with men being depressed and not knowing how to talk to women problem

Northythere's like a huge problem with it there's a huge problem with women doing things or like getting into situations that they don't really like necessarily would be okay with so I guess I'm just interested in doing

Isabelle Brownsomething a bit more productive with our time we could create Common Ground we could actually try to change some Minds we could talk about the controversial issues I mean and I think Andrew might actually agree with me here I actually

Brian Atlasdon't think I'll be able to change any of the girls Minds on anything I'm actually whenever I have people on the show I'm actually never really really interested in changing the mind of who's

Brian Atlasacross from me I'm interested in reaching them I'm interested in reaching the audience so they send you money right no no no no no no don't be disingenuous I'm interested in changing

Isabelle Browntheir mind well let me give you a great example of how you've done that in the last couple of weeks a week ago I had a beautiful young woman on my live stream named Nala Ray just a few months ago

Isabelle BrownNala went viral on this podcast as a top 0.01% only fans Creator crit saying that she was physically sexually attracted to the idea of cheating on other men in the

Isabelle Brownlast few months Nala has completely broken the Internet by leaving that entire lifestyle behind she was baptized in a Christian Church she deleted her only fans content uh she deleted thousands of illicit photos and videos

Isabelle Brownoff the internet she has left that life behind much to the ridicule and disbelief of a lot of people on the internet after a debate with me by the way Motorsports

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)donated sto the F none of the losers oppos you do not give cheats about anything you have to say Andrew is right you are best served to bring them to your level not SN to the oh yeah that's

Isabelle Brownexactly what we're trying to do bring people to a new level and and start that conversation but Nala's dramatic transformation has inspired quite literally hundreds of millions of people all over the world to stop and ask the

Isabelle Brownquestion wow how can you have a comparison side by side of being viral on the whatever podcast saying it's kinky to cheat on people and 5 seconds later get baptized and delete all of that cont content off of your platform

Isabelle Brownthat is catering to both your audience and to the individuals on the platform I just don't think it's mutually exclusive so I'm inspired ridiculous take listen here's

Andrew Wilsonwhat actually happened post a debate after I wrecked Nala she's sitting basically exactly where the gal is sitting there who's uh who uh has the red hair basically sitting right there

Andrew Wilsonshe went and re-evaluated her life after she sat on this podcast and said that she sends money to her father who is a preacher and I said what kind of father

Andrew Wilsonwho's a preacher would ever allow that suddenly on Michael nul she says wait my parents disown me two very conflicting stories by the way but okay we'll grant

Andrew Wilsonthat that is true what it's created is a lined division right down the middle of people trying to determine what Christianity is and is not who's allowed in who is allowed not in that is a

Andrew Wilsonfantastic conversation but to say it's not completely polarized in that's what it is it's totally polarizing it has not brought people together it brought people together just because something is controversial

Isabelle Browndoesn't mean it can't bring people together I've seen more productive dialogue about the role of Faith In Our generation's Lifetime and culture in the role of only fans and whether or not it's something we should have a mass Exodus from within our generation in the

Isabelle Brownlast two weeks because of Nala's transformation story than anything else I've ever seen and largely that started from a clip of your podcast Brian so I think that's incredible right because that's catering to an audience but that's also catering to a generation of

Isabelle Browncreators and people who are willing to put themselves out there they're not mutually exclusive it's not mutually exclusive but the thing is is no it's one of the most polarizing issues I've ever seen in my life if you look at Twitter and the polarization which has

Andrew Wilsonhappened behind it who believes or who doesn't believe her what's actually going on here yes it is true that it's sparked a conversation but it's a very polarized conversation do it has not

Andrew Wilsoncreated Kumbaya by imagination is because people are engaging directly in argumentation and for the first time these ideologies are being taken on and people aren't used to seeing that that's

Andrew Wilsonwhat's going on and so you do see a polarization completely disagree with his take I think you're nice person I think you're on our side but I think that this take is incorrect all right Fair agree to disagree but I just think

Isabelle Brownpolarization doesn't have to be mutually exclusive from a productive path moving forward polarization can be a beautiful thing because it forces examine our conscience and that's exactly what's happened here so I would

Isabelle Brownlove to do that in the next several minutes of the podcast with you guys talk about some of those polarizing issues that we might disagree on but at least create an opportunity for productive dialogue moving forward if we don't have any I'll try my best I I got

Brian Atlasa couple things I need to finish up on so we'll try our best here and we do have some chats coming in I do want to wrap up you we were starting to talk about misogyny and it was your view that this podcast is misogynistic is that

Lucecorrect I don't want to put words in your mouth um I think that um a lot of the conversations surround discrediting misogyny and

Luceessentially criticizing women on a hypocritical lens I mean I don't I'm not saying specifically you but I would say as you were saying with the mass

Luceimplication of media um I do think a lot of commenters or a lot of conversations are sparked in misogyny because it is a controversial topic um and it's a topic

Brian Atlasthat can be very reactionary for women didn't you when I asked the question earlier didn't you just outright say yeah I think the podcast is misogynistic I that was I was reading from what I had

Lucesaid a year ago and the notion didn't you tell my staff that the podcast Nick did you I said I was blocked on Instagram because I called that podcast misogynistic I don't even think in your

Brian Atlasoriginal messages did you even say misogynistic yes you we could we could pull it up again really quick just so I can scan it

Brian AtlasNick I I mostly tuned uh zoned in on uh exploitation uh there's a lot of

Brian Atlasexploitation young women women of color hyper uh it's it's up I don't know if I saw an accusation of actual regardless

LuceI'm sure my Prospect what of downplaying the woman experience was centralized around misogyny yes correct but correct me if I'm wrong but I do think you indicated either behind

Brian Atlasthe scenes in messages or even on the show that you view the podcast I don't know if it's myself as misogynistic yes and then I think you

Nicoledid too yeah I mean can I ask you like sorry can I ask you like a question and you respond to it engage with it like in good faith and so genuine well allow me to ask a couple of my questions first

Nicolebut you you think that the podcast is misogynistic I believe that you benefit from misogyny and I think it has from misogyny well here's my question I'm

Nicolejust going to ask it well hold on I'm I'm in the middle of well you ask me a question my question is a response to what you just asked um why do you think it is that every person who sends you

Brian Atlasmoney is saying something misogynistic if you don't benefit from are you new to the internet like do you realize how when you have anonymity and you

Nicolehave just total on YouTube these are all Anonymous people super toxic I don't cosign I even said I dis some of coign but I'm asking why I mean none of it's

Nicolelike say anti-semitic none of it's like um other isms that we could do with our anonymity it's all sexism and misogyny so why do you think those people are watching you and sending you money if not you benefiting from misogyny and stoking that for your own personal

Nicolebenefit well I think you're making a lot of a assumptions there are not bity you can read the comments and say they're misogynist if you say they're not that doesn't make fine then all the commenters who comment on your behalf

Brian Atlasare Miss Andress then sure go for it okay oh okay well yeah that makes a lot of sense right so again everything's Anonymous as a man I don't know how to take responsibility for what other

Brian Atlaspeople say so I can have a conversation about the things that I discuss on the podcast but I can't be like I don't know how to be respons for what somebody else says especially somebody who says it

Nicoleanonymously so I didn't no I didn't say you were responsible for it but I think you benefit from it and you intentionally engage with those comments and you stoke that kind of Discord did

Brian Atlasyou say you consider yourself a feminist I do okay so you benefit from a mandra system now I'm one podcast I have you

Brian Atlaswere talking about uh systemic what was the other word you used in in uh there's systemic and then there was another word I'm trying to remember institutional institutional so I have one podcast

Brian Atlasyou're a feminist I have I have absolutely no power compared to the absolute uh Goliath that is feminism

Brian Atlasyou're laughing every single University in this country has a feminist studies program a woman's studies program a gender studies program every single universities all these universities are

Brian Atlassystems and these systems have $100 million endowments that's what I'm up against you guys have all the power feminism has all the power it has

Brian Atlasinfiltrated all the institutions institutions of higher education government media corporations do you think my message is the mainstream I'm

Brian Atlasthe counterculture no I don't I don't think I'm the counterculture you as a feminist possess all the systemic and institutional power in this country I would disagree with that I think

Brian Atlasthat's how is that conceiv in in all in government in media in corporations in

Brian Atlasuh the higher education system feminism has 100% control it is the status quo how can you sit here and say that and

Brian Atlasfeminism preaches an absolutely man-hating ideology the core tenant the core tenant of feminism is the patriarchy Theory which in my view is a

Brian Atlasis a absurd Conspiracy Theory what would you say the patriarchy theory is I mean there's different definitions of it it's this idea that men hold all the power

Brian Atlaswomen are precluded from having any power and that men as a class are oppressors and women are the oppressed if that's what you're teaching

Brian Atlaspeople in these systems in this systems of Education you're teaching women to have absolute contempt and hatred towards men if you're teach teaching women that they are oppressed and that

Andrew Wilsonmen are the fault of that and that men are the oppressors you hold all the cards you hold all the power so what do you think we should be teaching woman well I think that the first thing is is that if you experience any sort of

Andrew Wilsonridicule whatsoever from a dynamic that you don't disparage them instead you hear what they have to say this particular case Brian points out something which is uh very interesting

Nicolewho holds the institutional Powers at the inel of the feminist you tell me um I would say that n cells do not hold any institutional power but I would say this is also getting away from my original

Nicolequestion which was you I mean like guess not a question it's more of a statement you benefit from misogyny it doesn't matter who has the institutional power benefit from misogyny if you didn't you wouldn't be here right now I benefit

Andrew Wilsonfrom misogyny you must because your claim here is that a bunch of misogynists are having you on to spread your

Nicolemessage I mean I I guess and that way I do benefit from it but then guess you do I guess you benefit from all this so you admit that he also benefits from it he also benefits from it right I don't even

Andrew Wilsonknow what that argument is though I I'll let you reclassify the word to misogyny as long as you say that a bunch of patriarch misogynists are benefiting You by allowing your message to go out to

Nicolethem go ahead and say that for us if you don't mind I mean the thing is my message is not going out to a sympathetic crowd right now I mean you can see who's watching and who's sending money no one who's listening is going to I didn't know what this podcast was when

Andrew Wilsonthey invited me on I was invited on hang that's also incorrect just so you know hang on let me let me just give you uh some framing I understand what your framing is steel Manning it back hey I I

Andrew Wilsonunderstand but I'm in a hostile crowd but you're really not you might be in a hostile crowd right now with the chat which is currently right here however millions of people will likely see the

Andrew Wilsonclips that come off of this podcast and you will get a sympathetic ear from that and I also don't buy that you didn't know what this podcast was I'm sure that you you seem like you're the type who

Andrew Wilsondiligent and does your research are you not that kind I I don't watch podcasts I don't know you don't so you just agree blindly to just whatever anybody offers you hold on okay let's no wait yes did

Andrew Wilsonyou just say yes would you like to move on or would you like me to respond no no I would like to I would like to just finish this real quick I'm almost done don't mind that was a joke I don't actually know okay you don't actually so you didn't do

Andrew Wilsonany of your due diligent research before going on a podcast you didn't have no idea what was going to happen you had no idea that this was a dating podcast where it's an adversarial relationship between the males and the females you

Nicolehad no clue no I I it was marketed as a dating podcast but I kind of just did it because it sounded fun I mean I don't the fact that it's hostile is go ahead final thing and I'll go I was just going

Nicoleto say I'm not saying that that you know so this is what you do this is your I'm my only point was that you benefit from people's misogynistic viewpoints and if

NicoleI if that makes me benef as well right B sure I'm on this day I'm benefiting from it but only one of us has the podcast and does it continually I'm just a guest benefiting from how could you how could you blame a

Andrew Wilsonbunch of misogynous patriarchy lunatics for promoting can you CER please okay no like can you Center oh yeah yeah yeah

Nicolehow can you blame a bunch of evil misogynist for o you to get your message out there um I does that sound like misogyny I mean yeah because they're benefiting from The Mists who are

Andrew Wilsonwatching but you're also benefiting from the mass I already admitted to that sure today I'm Mone how does this make how is this even a criticism then I don't even wouldn't this mean that misogyny was good wouldn't that mean misogyny is good

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)if you're benefiting from it I don't even really understand doc Vin donated $200 to paraphrase Rush limbo the what never podcast his equal time pushing

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)back against the systemic mandry of feminism evidence the boy crisis by faral very well put Doc Naas thought Rush LMBO was

Andrew Wilsondead uh okay I just think it's weird that it seems like yeah he is after he destroyed an entire culture of progressive scumbag hear that's true can you hear me another can you hear me

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)Devon Jackson donated $200 as someone who sent as much if not more money to this podcast than anyone I can assure you I've never said anything misogynistic so from the bottom of my

Brian Atlasheart [ __ ] you the individual not the woman so okay you're saying that I benefit but what is really thank you daon what I I don't really understand your argument here because like let's

Brian Atlassay for example uh Joe Biden received political contributions from a like radical feminist group that hates men which he does sure sure like does

Brian Atlasthat mean that he just because he receives the support of a radical group that he necessarily and look I don't want to get into Joe Biden's views on [ __ ] but uh does that means mean that he

Brian Atlasco-signs those views because he has received the support of said group and we've seen this a lot from Trump where Trump will will get uh an endorsement from somebody who's a radical in some

Brian Atlasway and then that is somehow it must mean it's a reflection on Donald Donald Trump's precise political views and ideology when that's not the case so I'm just not really sure what your argument

Nicoleis I didn't say you were co-signing it that your own opinions on women are your own but you I mean my only argument is that you're benefiting Motor Sports donated $200 I rebuke the claim of misogyny

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)however I will call stupid stupid and would prefer brutal honesty to comfortable lies I can see why you would not the patriarchy is here to help you not brickson

Brian Atlasthank you grid One Motorsports appreciate it um okay so you view the podcast as M anyone here else think the podcast is misogynistic uh I don't really watch it

Arya Rileyso I am not able to determine that look I just want to say this and I'll make it quick I find it weird that a lot of your audience seems to either I wouldn't say

Arya Rileythat they hate women but it's like women that do like only fans or like sex work and then they pay a lot of money just so can like insult women and that's odd to me I'm not saying what everyone else at

Brian Atlasthe table saying but I'm saying that that is weird and it's negative exclude the viewers exclude the audience of the things that are discussed on the podcast do you view the podcast as

Brian Atlasmisogynistic no okay but you two do so I have a question you use the word how do you def split please

Luceokay how do you define misogyny um I would say that it's not

Luceopinion based rather the instigating of anti-woman Concepts so anytime you ask a question there's

Lucekind of an automatic rebuttal so you're going you're going into it of oh well women shouldn't should do this but shouldn't do this and women should feel this way but they feel

Lucethis way or putting words into everyone's mouths I think kind of promotes this idea of misogyny um obviously it's a blanket term and I I do

Lucefeel as it was overused and I apologize um but I do think to some capacity benefiting off of the hatred or

Luceyou're not answering the question okay my perspective I Define misogyny as expressing hatred towards women from a gender standpoint rather than an

Luceobjective opinion or material matter such as hating on a woman for how she looks telling a woman that she is incompetent or dumb more based if she is

Brian Atlasis it misogynistic then to tell an incompetent person they're incompetent not that I've done that but is it an opinion B Energy donated 200 $100 would

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)happily support a podcast that's promoting celibacy virginity and lifetime Godly marriages we're supporting because we understand we're steering the culture in a positive

Lucedirection that's what we should be doing yeah thank you dbe thank you and I think um I loved like your conversation um and I think I think we often get boxed into this idea of I have to have this opinion

Luceor have to have this other opinion just because we perceive one thing said as a certain way um I think being called brat for having my own opinion is highlighted in

Lucemisogyny I think if I were a man a lot of my opinions would be perceived in a different way so I think that misog assume you would be making sound arguments and we would take it

Lucethat is misogyny if you assume I would be making sound arguments because I was a man that is misogynistic I mean you really just like yourself into mean what

Lucedo I mean you just said if I were a man you made a single good argument all night while if I was a man you would assume I would be making sound arguments but because I'm a woman I can't make a

Andrew Wilsonsound argument do you know why the precondition applies here because we've listen to AR how many women also donate to this

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)podcast are sell misogynistic degenerate men because they are female changing a perspective from a debate isn't Mis istic the change was already in you

Brian Atlasright that chatter is right hold on hold on hold on hold on kill kill of Serial thank you um just to prove his point I have a chat that's about to come in here from conservative

Brian AtlasLatina thank you love seeing Isabella on the Pod you're awesome girl cute for the girls can women be sexist towards men how would you feel if you heard men saying I hate all women like women do

Brian Atlasalso Christ is King uh thank you conser conservative Latina I'll ask that question a little bit later uh I'll get back to that though I have it written

Andrew Wilsondown thank you Andrew you you had go ahead yeah what I was saying specifically is we've we've only judged you on the merits of what you said in

Andrew Wilsonthe arguments that you've made if you've acted like a brat I don't recall calling you one I don't think I didn't call you br and Brian I don't recall calling you one either no no no I didn't say you

Andrew Wilsonguys I was saying from the chat it's okay for people to perceive why why is it that the people who tune in to the show you're so adamant about you're having the discussion with us who's viewing it should be relevant to that they're going to judge you on your

Andrew Wilsonarguments as well and you know what that's the most Fair way to do things do you think that when I'm in debates with these massive liberal progressives all over the Internet that I'm not getting judged by Their audience because I am

Andrew Wilsonand the last thing I say is oh my God they're judging me as Terri that's ridiculous make the arguments and let's engage with them what's the name of this live

Luceso I don't know if I got a clear answer on this how do you define misogyny I I just feel like no matter what I say my opinion is going to be wrong so I just I would love to start having a conversation like even with you about

Brian Atlasthese other top you just engage really quick I just what do you want me to engage in because I'm constantly being shut down interrup there was an interruption from the TTS um just if we can do split Nick so just how do you

Lucedefine misogyny I Define misogyny as exactly what he said to me if I were a man if I were a man I would be making sound arguments I believe misogyny is not what I said you did say did he say

Andrew Wilsonthat or did not say that I was actually was granting your worldview just so you know so you understand I was granting your worldview okay and I was saying because the precondition is you think that if you were a man you'd be making

Andrew Wilsonsound arguments that's what that's what my point was okay I'm sorry if I misunderstood you my opinion so I'll apologize no no don't worry that's my bad misogyny

Luceis founded in discrediting certain opinions or perspectives by being equated to

Lucewomanness so when a woman is loud she's aggressive but when a man is loud he is a boss he is a leader those are misogynistic perspectives Sports donated

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)$200 Dollar Store Blondie we have listened to your inaccurate trite and wandering prattle all night perhaps you feel guilty about how you live your life

Lucein sin acting a victim and being argumentative maybe but how am but a perfect example of misogyny is how am I more argumentative than you two you see

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)my perspective yeah but because between the two of us You' said twice as much as I have and I've been discussing things with you energy donated $200 misogyny is literally disagreeing

Brian Atlaswith women if we don't stop this BS now now they lock us up for it the hour is late gentlemen that's right disagreeing with women you know it's going to be a felony pretty soon guys it's that is not

Luceat all what I think I don't hate all men I love many men I I don't do you believe in the patriarchy Theory or do you believe that there's a patriarchy um it is objective that our society is

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)patriarchal it's objective it's we literally are defined in every history book is a p donated $200 not being able to adequately annotate your opinions as a speaker in

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)this podcast does not infer misogyny okay this is your moment to be heard and as guests failing to be correct says something about you okay Sticky Fingers

Nicolethank you um how do you define misogyny the hatred of women okay so how have I hated woman women I didn't say you did I said you're benefiting from the hatred

Andrew Wilsonof women no but you said the okay but that's a different conversation you mean like saying you said that the podcast is so are you by your own admission that makes you a misogynist don't engage

Nicoledon't engage on that um I maybe I should rethink my phrasing there then because I think saying the podcast is misogynist implies that you are a misogynist and you're out with the

Nicoleintention to degrade women and whatever and whether or not I believe that I'm not going to accuse you of that um so if that's what you're defining the podcast

Nicoleas being misogynist as I would say maybe it's not but you are without a doubt you can't even deny that you are benefiting from people who have negative opinions of women and negative biases towards

Nicolewomen whether that makes the podcast itself misogynist I guess is Up For Debate like I I don't know wait so I have a question yeah if um if a national socialist do you have like a cash app or

Brian Atlasa venmo or something I do and they were to just send you do you do you are you in content creation at all or a little bit do you have any like a link tree that links your cash app or V or

Brian Atlasanything like that let's just say they found it and the National Socialist sent you $200 you're benefiting from na from from a Nazi yeah but I think there's a difference between so what's the who so

Nicoleokay so okay so these people who are sending you money are frequent viewers they they like your content they engage with it they enjoy it they come back for more if someone were to randomly find me

Nicoleand send me $200 just because whatever reason that has that's not the same thing it's not comparable like these people are your fans they are your viewers they most likely agree with a

Brian Atlasgood portion of what you say otherwise they wouldn't be watching you go to UCSB right I do so you pay tuition to UCSB yes okay so I would argue that the feminist studies program at UCSB and all

Brian Atlasyou know there's women studies feminist studies at every single University in this country there's no coresponding men's studies uh at any University as far as I'm concern as far as I know um

Brian Atlasthen aren't all these universities the sandr because they're benefiting from the tuition that these feminist studies majors are putting towards these

Brian Atlasuniversities so every single University every single system is just a man-hating system and they're all benefiting from feminist mandry and well I don't agree that feminism is Mander it absolutely is well we disagree so we you can't argue

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)on that point because I just don't well let's talk about patriarchy a little bit then so you were about to Define patriarchy I'll know finished Noah donated

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)$200 so if I say that all women are dumb I'm a misogynist but a women can openly say all men are dumb and no one bets an I double standards abroad point so no women are here no women here to clarify

Luceare saying all men are dumb because I don't believe that I absolutely do not believe that I don't believe that all men are dumb I don't believe all men are bad I don't believe in categorizing

Lucepeople are you less safe at night because of men um from a statistical standpoint yes because men it's a bit racist or sorry not racist it's a bit sexist don't you think well is it sexist

Luceor is it objective in the sense that majority of assault majority okay for example at UCSB Elliot Rogers let's talk about Elliot Rogers okay never mind we're not allowed

Andrew Wilsonto talk about it but that's a perfect example of women and men being unsafe because of someone with misogynistic perspective yeah let's talk about mattress girl then and talk about how many of these false allegations come out

Andrew Wilsonof these women who make these pretentious sa claims which are completely and totally unfounded which ruined men's lives university has complete and total control over throwing them out and ruining their lives absent

Luceany criminal investigation whatsoever let's talk about that statistically that is much less likely than a sa allegation being founded in truth and majority yeah

Andrew Wilsonprove it okay statically Pro that false allegations are more yeah you prove it I I just I know so many women so here's the thing we can prove it so let's take

Andrew Wilsonlook objectively when you say sa you also will make the Bold claim and these are consent claims where you will claim that a woman after she's engaged in the

Lucedeed can take consent away yes they do it all the time and you know that that's done not I am not that woman and I would argue you are just want you to acknowledge that that is done I'm sure

Luceit has happened this same way that men have gone and actually assaulted certain women absolutely and majority of those cases are never reported I have no

Andrew Wilsondispute with majority of men who are it's by other men it's neat that you will only acknowledge that men are engage in this ESS culture but don't acknowledge that the counter to this is

Andrew Wilsonthat women often make up these false essay did I not acknowled that absolutely no way to to have any recourse because it's done outside of even a criminal justice system this is what I was talking about when I feel

Lucelike this podcast is just telling me my opinions I completely disagree not telling you your op completely disagree with women doing false accusations I think that is a horrible thing to do to

Lucesomeone else it is not something I would ever do nor do I agree with nor do I promote I think there should be full criminal investigations I think there

Andrew Wilsonshould be um yeah feeling that you have you have woman's right to choose sign up but you've never had a investigate the

Lucemen who are falsely accused of sa ACC if if there were men who were falsely accused of of sa I would 100% be in support of promoting further

Luceinvestigation into those cases the same way I would promote further investigation into any sa charge um and I think one of the issues is we're trying to talk about like an issue that can be prominent to women and it's being

Northyoverridden by but what about this when we should be discussing like one issue yeah Fus on one thing and then we put our focus on the next thing but aism to begin with you're going to use a

Lucewhataboutism as your argument it's fair play to use a whataboutism back against it and sure but you're also telling me I have a different political ideology that I haven't discussed on and I haven't spoken on just because let me just ask

Luceyou directly so that I'm not straw Manning anything at all are you pro-choice for me personally I am pro-choice I personally I personally would choose to not have an abortion

Lucethough for me person I think under under the United States Clause of privacy under the United States Clause of privacy I believe women have the right of privacy to their body and their own

Luceautonomy Choice whether or not I would do it myself is a different conversation I personally think I would not be able to live with that because I very deeply want to be a mother and I think and have

Luceyou engaged in political activism no never I mean not not to a

Andrew Wilsonsustainable capacity no what does that mean I I'm I'm not in politics I I direct I'm asking if you've ever engaged in political activism have you been out

Andrew Wilsonthere marching with BLM have you been doing things like this ever uh maybe when I was young yeah okay gotcha and have you ever marched for any men's

Lucerights advocacy whatsoever ever um I don't see the relevance if it's not something I have or haven't you I I just don't see the relevance because the

Andrew Wilsonrelevance is showing you this that it's interesting that on the one hand you say I'm totally against all these things when you're activism hang on I'm trying to tell you so that you know do you want

Andrew Wilsonto hear the answer or not go ahead go ahead when you say when you say I'm engaged in all this political activism or even a minor amount of political activism that the political activism that you're engaged in is never for men's rights advocacy while at the other

Andrew Wilsoncorner of your mouth you say that you would be for men's right under these certain conditions but of course your political advocacy never reflects that that's I actually have advocated online several times and in several

Luceconversations on my social media platforms I do poetry on Tik Tok as well as live discussions on my Tik Tok um I have talked about how men's um un alive

Lucerates are extremely high in our country and that is a problem I'm very passionate about and I se blame on the patriarchy right why why are you guessing what I am doing why are you telling my directly who do you blame it

Brian Atlason the patriarchy or feminist I would never BL I would never blame such a horrible issue Andrew she said she she says you're not a good debat B de I

Andrew Wilsonwould never blame such a sensitive and only way this woman positions out is to guess at them cuz she won't tell us them she hides them I just told you she hides them on purpose every time I've asked a

Andrew Wilsonprobing question it's always hidden it's always in Word let me just ask you directly are you a progressive feminist who is pro-choice

Lucewho believes that a patriarchal system is oppressing women or not those are two specific blanket terms and I don't blanket term specific questions

Andrew Wilsonthen do you believe that a patriarchy is oppressing women and are you a progressive feminist who is pro-choice

Luceno okay so you're not pro-choice I I am pro-choice but those are these are such you had question in there to get an answer out of her and then Corner

Lucepossible to get an answer out of her because life is not so black and white people can have different opinions people can be pro-choice for others and personally pro-life people can believe

Lucethat men have problems in society and women have problems in society I believe that both many groups of people suffer in own unique way I think that is really

Andrew Wilsoninvalid to do such drastic blanket terms on such vast issues in my opinion okay okay let's try this a different way then if if if you had to choose between

Andrew WilsonProgressive liberal feminist conservative if you had to it's a hypothetical or Traditional

LuceValues uh female which one would you pick I would pick neither if you had to I why do I have to there's no world that's the point of the hypothe instigating you're instigating on things

Andrew Wilsonthat I don't politically align with just just engage just try to engage in the hypothetical okay maybe maybe it doesn't matter but a hypothetical is designed to test your logic so let me ask the yellow who thinks that I'm a terrible debater

Andrew Wilsonsame question posed to you let's see if you can answer it what traditional uh tradcon traditional conservative values you believe in conservatism prog Progressive feminist

Andrew Wilsonyou had to choose the label which one are you choose think if I had to choose which one I am yeah Progressive feminist yeah exactly so now back over to you now that you saw that somebody can actually

Lucegive a straight answer which one would you choose um I'm declining this conversation I don't agree I don't want to be honest nothing to do with honesty it has

Luceeverything to do with me personally aligning with certain political IDE Oles not saying you do I'm saying you choose between the two hypothetically you only

Andrew Wilsonhave these two to choose from which one would you be more aligned with you don't know you don't even know it's you engage in political activism you don't know which side you're more politically activated on I when did I

Andrew Wilsonsay I engage in political activism I just got it out of you 5 seconds ago asked you if you marched with black lives matter said sure when I was younger that's political activism so now back to this if you had to choose between the two which one would you

Lucechoose you got this I believe in you guys that's so condescending my point is is that two things answer the question holy [ __ ] it's hypothetical if you had to pick oh

Brian Atlasmy God fine she won't do it okay hold on uh let me read one chat Isaac uh weird because Tik Tok literally is full of mandry man-hating women and those account holders with millions of followers are making bank I only see

Brian Atlaswomen in the comments agreeing and if any man chimes in he's doxed thank you Isaac appreciate it man absolutely true TI Tok will uh suppress anything that's misogynistic but it'll absolutely

Brian AtlasElevate meandrous things and you can this is actually evidenced I don't know the exact keywords but you can search for like uh hashtags and I think uh hasht I don't know exactly I don't want

Brian Atlasanybody to quote me on this it's either men are bad and then women are bad and you can't even search for women are bad but you can search for uh men are bad or

Brian Atlasit's I think men suck versus or hash men suck hash women suck you can't even find any results for women suck but men suck totally fine um Isaac thank you very much for that uh so Isabelle has a heart

Brian Atlasout at 900 p.m. she asked she does have a flight to catch um so what I'm going to do actually um maybe Andrew we can pick some of the stuff back up after she leaves I'm just going to open the floor to Isabelle hands off I'm hands off no no no no I'm just going to open the

Brian Atlasfloor to Isabelle if you want to just kind of it sounded like you had some questions you want to ask just here for your last unless you can stay past nine a little bit we'll stay as as long as we Poss possibly can as long as you can the

Brian Atlasfloor the floor is yours you can perhaps you know you'll get rid of this toxic masculinity and we'll get some some femininity in here so go ahead no actually I I just think this is a great opportunity for us to talk about some of

Isabelle Brownthese issues because I'm hearing a lot of stuff thrown around about pornography about abortion I think there's a cool dialogue that we can start with some of this so first and foremost um I think easily the issue that most people are

Isabelle Brownattaching to women as we get closer to to the November election is the issue of abortion lose you kind of just opened up your perspective on this but I would love to just hear from everybody what you think is going on in the country where you're personally coming from and

Luceif you might be open-minded to any change of perspective on that um I think such a beautiful thing about America is kind of our foundation of freedom and

Luceprivacy um I really really respect the Privacy clause and I do think issues such as abortion do fall under privacy clause and autonomy personal autonomy

Lucethat every individual should have in this country um the same way that a lot of um uh pro-life um individuals from a

Luceright standpoint would argue that it was unfair to be forced to be vaccinated I think it's kind of the same conceptualization for me personally of abortion I think the same way it's unfair to be forced to have a vaccine is

Lucethe same way it's unfair to force someone to um not have an abortion or to have an abortion so I think that that my perspective of being pro-choice um is

Luceunder privacy Clause I understand that there are um of course certain laws in place about how far into the term um pregnancies can be terminated but I will

Luceargue that realistically unless it is for um the survival of the mother it is very very very rare that there are ever late term abortions really um yeah

Lucestatistic i' I've done some research into this and it is fairly fairly low because very few people will go through the turmoil and the physical changes of pregnancy just to later decide that they

Lucedon't want the child it's usually founded in um for example uh neurological disorders or physical disorders such as developing without a heart or developing without lungs to the point where the fetus could not even

Isabelle Brownsurvive outside the womb so how would you respond come from a body autonomy perspective to this idea that it's not just your body in the conversation anymore um I I totally hear that and I

Lucereally I really understand that this is such a sensitive subject um but I do think that because there has not been yet the

Luceopportunity of thought and conceptualization for a fetus um in early development I would not consider

Luceit um to be a full life or a full individual conception I think that um obviously super late term abortion and

Lucethings like that are more unethical in my opinion but I do think um you know accidental pregnancy or um you know

Luceassault or other confounds can create Dynamics in which it is very practical for women to um abstain from childbirth

Luceand I think um you know these sort of things happen um but I think the other issue of being anti- proo choice is just that people are going to have abortions no matter what wouldn't you rather these

Lucewomen have abortions in a place where it was safe for them to one have children later in life not go infertile from a botched you know underground abortion um you know protect their own autonomy and

LuceHealthcare and their ability to reproduce later I think is so important and you know all these people are going to do it anyway the same way that even though drugs are illegal people do drugs just reality and that's such a sad thing

Luceand I'm sad that you know abortion is the better choice for a lot of women in an ideal world it would never be a necessity but I I would argue for a lot

Isabelle Brownof women you know it is a necessity for safety um just due to socioeconomic status Etc lots and lots to talk about there and I think all worth conversations having I'm curious just to

Isabelle Brownopen up to everybody else anybody else feel comfortable sharing where they're coming from on this I am personally pro-choice okay totally uncomfortability you don't have to jump in if you don't want to I'm

Arya Riley100% pro-choice and just based on the industry that I've been in and situations that I've seen women in um how we were talking about how you would prefer or how you want to have a good

Arya Rileymother in the household what if that girl gets into like a relationship where I mean we've all been there but we've been in a relationship that wasn't good for us but we thought we were in love and we stayed in that situation even

Arya Rileythough in the future we knew that it'd be harmful to us or we knew that we don't have the finances to bring that baby into the world you know um somebody

Arya Rileywas talking about adoption and how adoption can be harmful um there's just so many other reasons that a woman can decide you know what I don't think it's

Arya Rileygood for me nor this child I don't want to hurt this kid by bringing this child into the world um the subject that we can't talk about grapes for that to

Arya Rileyhappen and on her own uh there's just there's so much so I believe that pro-choice is a good option if you're in that situation also like to say I'm pretty sure I'm recalling this correctly

Northybut um you are considered pregnant from the day of your last period um depends on your provider but yeah yeah so like that can like really affect you know

Northyabortion terms um which like can be understandable if like you don't really know like if it's like she got pregnant a day after her period or 30 days after her period um but if she got pregnant

Nicolelike 30 days after her period she's already a month pregnant anybody disagree with any of that out of curiosity disagree with that's that's like medically no not that perspective just everything that's been said so far

Nicoleno I'm I'm pro-choice and it's one of those things that it's very unfortunate but like I don't think this debate can ever be like solved because I I assume you're Christian so

NicoleI'm assuming you believe that life begins in conception and that child you just made an assumption wait I thought that that that's what made you a bad that you make assumption was correct it was if she would have said no I I

Isabelle Brownwould have I'm wearing a big old cross necklace so it's okay she has a cross necklace and I believe she said it cross tattoo also believe said it earlier as well um but actually I would say my belief about life beginning at

Isabelle Brownconception I wouldn't even argue that's my belief it's just biological fact comes from my my background with two degrees in biomedical Sciences far more than it does my Catholic faith I guess by I mean more like you believe that a child has a soul right like you believe

Nicolethat there there is a there's a potential life there that has a soul it has an existence and that's like if someone is not Christian they don't believe that necessarily so it's one of

Nicolethose things where I 100% see how someone who believes that that's like a soul and if they are aborted they're they're dead they're they're going to I don't know exactly what you would believe but I understand why someone who

Isabelle Brownbelieves that would think that abortion is like AB horen like that is it's murder from that perspective so from an atheist perspective do human beings not have souls what sets us apart from other life forms I mean I'm not an atheist but

NicoleI think that someone who doesn't believe in like the soul doesn't believe in an afterlife abortion is completely it's like a different thing so there's like a fundamental disconnect there that like I can I don't imagine I could ever

Nicoleconvince you that that's not murder but no one could ever convince me that like a child you know in the womb has a soul soul and we'll go to hell or we'll go to

Nicoleheaven I'm not sure where you know we believe they'll go like that's just like a like that's a theological difference so that's why I worry that like the debate can really never be like reconciled cuz like I'm never going to convince you that that's not murder and

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)I don't think I could ever be convinced grid One Motorsports donated $200 should the father have a say in you killing his child because it is

Arya Rileyinconvenient to you that's interesting he should have a say that's as far as I think that goes for that everybody's situation is different

Isabelle Brownhow do you guys feel about some limits on all of this Luc I know you talked about there eventually being a point that you think that's unethical at what

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)point living uncore donated $200 Isabelle I read an article where in Canada women can get abortions even up to the point of knowing the baby's sex I

Isabelle Brownknow there are cases of women abort based on gender reminds me of China that's messed up yeah that happens in the United States actually every single day which is terrible but how how do you

Isabelle Brownguys feel about some sort of restriction on this do you feel represented by the left today in this anything goes even for that reason aborting based on the gender of your child through all N9

Lucemonths of pregnancy does that make you uncomfortable sure um I think that you know there's a lot of discussion on how we don't live in a patriarchy but then you're going going ahead and aborting a

Lucebaby based off the gender I'm assuming the preference gender would be male um statistically I think that you know there are certain compounds that I do

Lucethink it does become ethical such as if your child is going to be born with a severe medical problem um and you are unable to provide for a safe space and

Lucemedical care for that child it could be debated for being ethical but I do think at a certain Point um if you are close to a full-term pregnancy you know

Luceadoption could be a good option for a parent that is not willing to um raise the child individually but I do think that it isn't a free-for-all and I think

Lucethat a lot of these arguments come from a place of assuming that people are just like having abortions for fun you know it's some are unfortunately and I think that it has been too normalized in media

Luceof like joking around about it because you know I think it's a really traumatic thing for women and I think even though a lot of the time choosing to not have that baby is the right choice for these women um it shouldn't be kind of made

Luceinto a mockery I think it's a really really difficult decision and I know a lot of women personally who have either lost children or had to have abortions

Luceum myself my mom was considering not having me and aborting me my father asked her to have an abortion at the time

Luceum so obviously it's a personal issue to me I wouldn't exist um but I do think that there is 100% validity in having those choices um that is part of why you

Luceknow our country is free but I do think there needs to be better conversations around you know it not being so normalized but I do think there is this bias in saying that like oh people use

Luceit as a form of like birth control it's super expensive nobody's nobody who wants to have an abortion is trying to get pregnant do you do you understand what I'm saying exactly I think a lot of

Northythe issues too with like if I don't know the numbers if abortions are increasing or not but um across like the United States a lot of people our age are really struggling financially and if you can't even take care of yourself

Isabelle Brownfinancially let alone the stress of a child on top of that like your last resort is to get an abortion I guess I just have a really hard time trying to wrap my head around the circumstances of your conception

Isabelle Brownimpacting the value of your worth as a human being whether you were conceived in sa you were conceived in a low socioeconomic status you're conceived and and you developed to happen to have a disability does that not bother you that our society has attached these

Northyconditions that I think we're thinking of it in terms of like the traumat the trauma that it would bring to either the child or the mother in those situations so are we guaranteed a life without

Isabelle Browntrauma then are we guaranteed a life without suffering as any human being sorry te issues te ISU I I I think we've assigned this notion for whatever reason

Isabelle Brownmodern feminism has with women of Our Generation that it's somehow more compassionate to just never allow that person to exist like theoretically loose if you weren't sitting here at this table because your parents had gone through with what their plan was to

Isabelle Brownnever allow someone else to exist out of supposed feigned compassion because that person might experience suffering in their life isn't that the same line of thinking that eugenicists have used throughout all of human history to say

Northyoh it's just more compassionate it's better for them I say that I agree that there is trauma with like every single life um I think at the end of the day it's more of like a personal personal

Northydecision a personal like moral um someone weighing out the pros and cons of the decision that they're going to make and for some people that decision

Arya Rileyfits them and for some it doesn't H I think it's selfish and Noble at the same time to prevent a child's suffering I know growing up that my parents like they both had

Arya Rileymental illness and they weren't able to provide like emotional support for a little kid growing up and there was a lot of healing that I had to do and still like doing and recovering from

Isabelle Brownthat and personally for me I would not want to put a child through that if I can avoid it so when does that decision get to happen then I I think I hear a

Northylot of this of I think there could be like more um productive solutions for sure rather other than like just deciding whether or not this situation deserves an abortion or not whereas like

Northyif we had Solutions of like Mental Health crisis help like more Mental Health Services um more services to like help families or like more services to help people get better paying jobs so they can support a family yeah all

Isabelle Brownimportant things totally so more productive to I think my question would be in deciding whether or not it's fair or ethical or positive to bring this child into the world when does that decision get to happen after you're

Isabelle Brownpregnant or do we make that decision before we have sex up front I I think abstinence is a

Luceflawed way of being anti-abortion because the reality is is people a lot of people are going to have sex a lot of religious people are going to have sex a

Andrew Wilsonlot of you know very high moral people are going to have sex married people will have sex people that's a that's an isod Gap so you're saying because this is true that that means that thing that

Luceought to happen I just think I think being being pro-choice and wanting to create a space in which people have access to resources that would

Luceessentially in in your ideal world end abortions um could be great in theory but having the conversation of like sex only being something for pregnancy I

Lucethink no I don't think it is I think it's a consequence of a consequence of sex being pregnancy as in creating a world in which abstinence is kind of the

Luceway is a really hard argument to do because I just think they do become separate issues and a lot of people have sex I don't understand why are they

Luceseparate issues pregn absent penis going in vagina because a lot of peoplez condoms and still end up getting pregnant and I'm not saying that abstinence wouldn't have been the better

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