Andrew Wilson vs. Feminists (HEATED)?! MAGA Girls?! VlRGlN?! NEAR KICK?! | Dating Talk #151

Date: 2024-04-10

Duration: 6h 38m

Guests

Brian Atlas

NNorthy (DT151)>

KKenna (DT151)>

CCarly (DT151)>

NNicole (DT151)>

CCaroline (DT151)>

IIsabelle Brown >

AAndrew Wilson >

Identified Speakers

SPEAKER_00TTS/Background Voice(audience)

SPEAKER_01TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)(audience)

SPEAKER_02Nicole(guest)

SPEAKER_03Luce(guest)

SPEAKER_04Caroline(guest)

SPEAKER_05Kenna(guest)

SPEAKER_06Northy(guest)

SPEAKER_09Andrew Wilson(guest)

SPEAKER_10Brian Atlas(host)

SPEAKER_12Isabelle Brown(guest)

SPEAKER_13Carly(guest)

SPEAKER_14Arya Riley(guest)

Key Moments

IntroBrian introduces the panel; Arya Riley refuses to share her age triggering a ~20 minute standoff.

“"please tell us your name age location and occupation"”

ControversyArya Riley refuses to share her age for ~20 minutes citing "mystery" strategy from Robert Greene's Art of Seduction. Brian threatens to kick her off the show. She eventually says "I'm 22" as a lie. Pre-show casting indicated 29.

“"I just don't share that... it's part of my mystery... my appeal"”

QuoteBrian threatens to remove Arya from show if she refuses to share her age.

“"if the choice is between revealing your age and me kicking you off the show right now which do you choose"”

QuoteArya discloses her sugar daddy has sent approximately $26k total in cash and gifts including paying her rent, before they even met in person ($12k sent before first meeting).

“"I would guess in cash like 20,000 and then maybe in gifts... my rent's on auto pay too"”

OtherArya Riley explains the origin of her viral boat TikTok video: met a ~65yo man at a bar the night she was fired from a strip club; he invited her and a friend sailing; not a sugar daddy.

“"I had just gotten fired from the strip club and we went out... he invited us to go sailing"”

ControversyLuce argues women were historically excluded from the workforce until wartime. Andrew and panel correct this claim; women were teachers, nurses, clerical workers throughout history.

“"until war time women weren't allowed in the workforce"”

ControversyAndrew Wilson argues from the transcript that women historically fought against suffrage because they did not want to incur debt or be conscripted. Luce pushes back on revisionist framing.

“"the anti-suffragettes... didn't want to be drafted... didn't want to incur debt"”

ControversyBrian plays a clip of a previous female guest calling him "white boy" to dismiss his argument. Long debate follows on whether this is racism or prejudice.

“"white boy... you've never experienced racism in history white people haven't experienced racism"”

OtherIsabelle Brown opens abortion discussion and challenges panel on body autonomy argument; notes life begins at conception biologically; compares selective abortion to eugenics logic. She leaves the show shortly after (~3 hour mark).

“"isn't that the same line of thinking that eugenicists have used throughout all of human history"”

QuoteIsabelle Brown makes closing statement before leaving due to flight: remains optimistic about her generation; grateful for the conversation.

“"I remain really optimistic about the future of this generation"”

OtherSelf-ratings round: Andrew Wilson rates himself a 4; Northy gives DC 10 / California 7 joke.

“"ask everyone to rate their looks physical looks on a scale of 1 to 10"”

ControversyNorthy calls production staff member Gustavo "a pathetic little baby loser" on air; Andrew Wilson reacts sharply in defense of Gustavo.

“"is Nick a loser Nick is such a fucking loser what the fuck... Gustavo are you a loser"”

ControversyAndrew Wilson challenges Nicole to provide secular moral grounds for why necrophilia is wrong; Nicole says she has no grounds beyond personal opinion; Andrew uses this to argue secular morality has no epistemic foundation.

“"if a society democratically voted that people are allowed to screw dead bodies you have nothing other than your personal opinion to justify why they shouldn't do it"”

OtherAndrew invites Nicole and Luce to come to his studio for a formal 1v1 debate with no interruptions; Brian announces Andrew returning to studio next Sunday and Tuesday.

“"go in studio have a one v one debate... it'll be well moderated"”

QuoteArya Riley complains her spine is hurting due to large breast size during heated debate; Brian draws attention to it.

“"my spine is screaming"”

OtherBrian reads rapid-fire closing hot take statements covering dating norms, feminism, body count, plastic surgery, age-gap relationships, male oppression (military conscription), and male privilege; ends with genital shaming joke.

“"women have dating on easy mode... only traditional women deserve traditional treatment... feminism is not about equality it's about securing benefits for women"”

OtherEnd of show: Brian does Twitch double-raid to stay-safe and WowGrandma78 (82yo WoW streamer). Andrew Wilson redirects viewers to his YouTube channel. Northy promotes her YouTube channel "Hard Ones" after doing a bow (after calling Brian "baby girl").

“"I'm going to do a double raid... WowGrandma78... she's 82 she plays World of Warcraft"”

Topics Discussed

Guest introductions

Guests introduce name, age, location, occupation. Notable: Arya Riley refuses to share her age (~20 minute standoff with Brian). Brian threatens to remove her from show. Isabelle Brown returning guest; now engaged. Carly discloses she was previously only attracted to women.

Age mystery standoff — Arya Riley

Arya Riley refuses to share her age citing "mystery" strategy from Art of Seduction. Brian spends ~20 minutes pressing her. She eventually says "I'm 22" as a lie. Pre-show casting indicated age 29. Chat donates to push back. Isabelle Brown and Northy discuss the OnlyFans mystery/fantasy-selling angle. Brian points out contradiction: posting nude content but hiding age.

Relationship status and sugar daddy arrangement

Brian goes around table for relationship status. Arya Riley describes her sugar daddy arrangement: ~$26k total from man who found her via Instagram after a bikini contest video. He sent $12k before they ever met in person. Paid her rent. Brian asks how many sugar daddies she's had total; she declines to estimate. Northy: single since August 2023; no relationship; career focused. Kenna: in 5-month relationship. Carly: single; complicated history with first male partner after being lesbian.

Viral boat video (Arya Riley)

Brian plays two TikTok videos from Arya Riley's account. First: shows her with an older white man — not a sugar daddy; met at a bar the night she was fired from strip club. He invited her and a friend sailing. Video went viral. Second (boat one): Brian plays with audio; she sings; older man is on a sailboat with her.

Partner income requirements

Brian asks each guest minimum income requirement in a partner. Kenna: $100k minimum; wants luxury lifestyle, travel, 3-4 bedroom house. Arya Riley: no minimum per hour; wants man who can provide; had negative experience with wage-gap relationships. Carly (UCSB poli sci/barista): wants comparable income (~barista level currently; higher for long-term). Caroline: equitable contribution, livable income for the area. Luce: love first; partnership/shared financial planning; flexible on who earns more. Isabelle Brown: priorities shift as wedding nears; simple life more appealing.

Marriage and kids intent round

Isabelle Brown asks who still wants to get married and have kids. Almost everyone raises hands; Northy: would consider marriage but not kids (kids might ruin relationship). Andrew Wilson notes apparent contradiction between wanting traditional marriage outcomes while still having modern financial requirements. Isabelle says she is surprised and gratified that most still want marriage.

Women in history and workforce

Luce claims women weren't allowed in the workforce until WWII. Andrew corrects her: women were nurses, teachers, clerical workers throughout history. Discussion of why women lack corporate ladder presence (fewer female CEOs). Andrew: women don't gravitate toward that kind of competitive corporate environment. Brief discussion of women's college enrollment exceeding men's (60/40 split).

Feminism: definition debate

Debate over what feminism means. Andrew offers "most charitable" definition: belief in egalitarianism and equality under law. Panel mostly declines the feminist label. Northy: prefers justice over equality; equity framing; subjective moral metric. Luce: progressive but avoids labels. Andrew's test: does being a stay-at-home mom hold women back? Most say no; Andrew argues that disqualifies most from being modern feminists.

Nuclear family and stay-at-home mothers

Andrew Wilson argues nuclear family is the optimal societal unit; requires stay-at-home mothers during formative years. Luce pushes back: individual relationships should determine dynamics. Andrew counters with population data and birth rate decline. Northy and Luce argue stay-at-home model is subjective and not universally optimal. Panel divided on whether career or motherhood should be prioritized.

Racism debate: can you be racist against white people?

Brian plays a clip of a prior female guest calling him "white boy" to dismiss his arguments. Panel debates whether that is racism or prejudice. Nicole and Luce: racism requires institutional power; calling Brian "white boy" is prejudice not racism. Andrew Wilson and Brian: by moral equivalence, prejudice equally bad as racism; double standard. Knockout game discussion (Andrew: specific anti-white crime pattern). Extended Andrew vs. Nicole/Luce debate on social constructs, material reality, and definitions. Brian: women benefit most from affirmative action (specifically white women).

Misogyny accusation and podcast defense

Luce argues the Whatever Podcast is misogynistic in tone and framing. Andrew and Brian push back: misogyny requires hatred, not disagreement. Luce raises friend who appeared on show and received hate online. Brian plays back a clip of that previous female guest calling him "white boy." Panel debates double standards in public discourse and cancel culture. Brian: UCSB feminist studies program perpetuates ideology; universities are ideologically captured.

Abortion debate

Isabelle Brown opens abortion discussion near end of her time on show. Luce: pro-choice under privacy clause; personally would not get one. Arya Riley: 100% pro-choice given her experience in the industry. Northy: pro-choice; references medical complexity of abortion timelines. Nicole: pro-choice; debate between her and Isabelle on soul/personhood. Isabelle: pro-life; life begins at conception (biomedical + theological). Andrew: references Christian ethic against abortion. Discussion of late-term abortion rarity and gender-selective abortion.

Self-ratings round (1-10 looks)

Brian asks everyone to rate their looks 1-10. Northy: 7 (California 7, DC 10/12 joke). Nicole: 8 to 8.5. Carly: 7-8 (implied from order). Arya: declined. Caroline: 4 area (implied). Andrew Wilson: 4. Luce, Kenna: not clearly extracted.

Can you be sexist toward men / misandry debate

Andrew asks panel if misandry exists. Nicole: individual sexism toward men exists but not systemic misandry. Northy: admits she has gone through "I hate men" phase stemming from unresolved trauma. Extended Andrew debate with Nicole on definitions of prejudice vs racism vs misandry. Brian points out Northy insulted Gustavo (staff) calling him a loser during episode.

Moral relativism: necrophilia thought experiment

Andrew Wilson asks Nicole and Luce for their moral justification for why necrophilia is wrong. Nicole says it is wrong because it is personally wrong to her — no universal justification. Andrew pushes: if society democratically allowed it, what grounds to oppose it? Nicole: I would disagree personally; would leave the country. Andrew: this reveals there is no epistemological grounding for secular morality. Extended philosophical debate. Andrew invites Nicole and Luce to come to his studio for a formal 1v1 debate.

Body count round

Brian asks body counts. Luce: under 10 (includes women). Northy: under 10 (explicitly "under 15" in order; some ambiguity). Arya: unclear/declined. Nicole: 1 (lost virginity at 21; couple months into relationship). Carly: 1 (first male partner at ~21 after being a lesbian; girl partners implied but not counted). Isabelle Brown: indirectly declined to answer (already left). Andrew Wilson: declined; chat member (kill cereal) announces being a virgin waiting for marriage.

Would you date a trans woman / trans dating question

Brian asks would you object to a man not wanting to date a trans woman? Nicole: no objection as long as he is not being cruel; it is a personal preference. Discussion of whether post-op trans women are fully indistinguishable. Panel broadly agrees it is an acceptable personal preference without transphobia.

Andrew Wilson closing hot takes

Brian reads out rapid-fire hot takes at show end. Women on dating easy mode vs men; makeup as deception; traditional women deserve traditional treatment; men should not pay on first dates; men with high body counts can desire low body count women; plastic surgery makes women look worse; feminism is about securing female benefits; men have been more oppressed (military conscription argument); no male privilege in totality; age-gap relationships between consenting adults are fine.

Transcript

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Lucecare how much he makes you'll date him take a dinner still then no problem you will date a guy so long as he pays for all the dates if we were in a full relationship

LuceI would be fine with a mutual date but the first date I would expect them to pay it doesn't matter how much what about the first few dates second third fourth still want them to pay or fine if I really liked them I could do 50/50 but

Brian Atlasif you like them a little bit less you'd still prefer for them to if I like them a little less I wouldn't go on multiple dates but you you used a qualifier there if I really liked them so there's some

Lucedegree of less liking where you would still tolerate a date but you'd still PR them first date if you don't you know if you're not enjoying I've had dates where I've paid in full because I hated the

Brian Atlasdate so much okay I think maybe other girls can relate to that okay um sure what about you what was the question what is the least a guy can make an hour

Northyfor you to date him um so for me personally I would want someone to meet my level in imp ition um and that's kind of what I'm looking for what's your level of ambition um like I wake up I

Northystart working I don't stop working till I go to bed I would want someone that has goals in their life that strives to like do something with their life I don't want someone who's just sitting around not doing a whole lot I'd want

Northysomeone who wants to better their life step by step again and again and basically like never stop that cycle so that's what I would personally so like you wouldn't date like would you date a

Northyguy who works 9 to5 yeah okay like if he's like ambitious and like wants to like let's say he's not ambitious but he has a 9 to5 job no okay so need to be ambitious

Northyand okay I need someone that meets the same values that I have for myself otherwise it's not going to work either that person's going to make their themselves feel smaller I'm going to feel smaller and it's just it's not

Kennawould you did a blue color worker yeah okay I think for right now um I'm 21 I think we're all still kind of in college and everything um so as long as you're you know pursuing your own career and

Kennaeverything I think that's cool but later on down the road I would like a man to make a good amount of money cuz I want to live a luxury or at least a a happy healthy kind of

Brian AtlasLifestyle well you you just said you want to live a luxury life um and I certainly agree with you I think when you're in college the money component

Brian Atlasisn't really you know you're your 19 20 21 I don't think people are really like oh is this guy making this much a year like I don't think cuz the men you're dating they're probably also in college

Brian Atlasright they probably maybe they're employed maybe they're not but uh you said though later down the road you do want a guy who's a bit more established when you say later down the road uh do

Kennayou mean like late 20s early 20 or mid 20s I see like whenever I'm ready to get married whenever I'm ready to you know be serious with someone then that's like I think that's just kind of like what I

Kennalook for in a man too I'm not I don't want a bum necessarily like I don't want someone who's kn going to go to college or not that going to college really means you have to be you know go to

Brian Atlascollege to make money but okay I just think it's kind of so you you did say though the guy that you do finally want to settle down with uh do you have a sense of what his minimum yearly income

Kennayou'd like it to be for him I that that's a hard question six

Kennafigures yes okay but I 100k 200k I'd say like 100k like I don't expect crazy okay but I also don't expect the

Brian Atlasbare minimum okay um and are you going to want to work too yeah 100% okay even and you want kids M how many kids two and do you want to be working while you're

Kennapregnant and during those early years I would like to have that you know time off so I could have that support for my husband but you said you want a luxury lifestyle what does that entail I want

Kennato be able to travel how frequently um internationally or nationally both you know I grew up traveling a lot with my mom she's a single mother and she still you know we went to China all over

KennaEurope in a lot of places so I think if if someone you know in her position can do it I think that's kind of like what's what I look for kind of too cuz if my mom can do it you know she was going to

Brian Atlasschool working two jobs and she busted her ass for me and what was your father were they divorced when you were young um was he paying alimony or child

Brian Atlassupport or anything like that I not sure to be honest well I asked just because you say well she was able to do it but I mean depending on the amount of Child

Brian AtlasSupport it's not clear if it was solely her that was en my mom's a hustler I'll say that fair enough um I don't know all the details uh okay so you'd want a guy luxury lifestyle so multiple vacations a

Brian Atlasyear you want to remain in Southern California yeah large uh how many bedrooms in the house however many I need for my kids two kids about three to four three to

Brian Atlasfour kids do does each kid get a bedroom yeah I would hope so okay so we're talking four or five six bedroom house close to M

Kennaum do you want a luxury car I would love one love one okay um but I can also support myself and by myself those things

Brian Atlaswhat are you studying in college again business business okay okay uh so minimum income uh six figure salary okay what about

Brian Atlasyou um what was the question I'm sorry yeah it was uh question for the ladies hold on what do the least a guy

Arya Rileycan make an hour for you to date him I have no idea I have never asked a man how much he makes an hour or honestly how much he makes a year I kind of agree with her you never asked I've

Arya Rileynever asked like as long as that man's able to like provide for me I'm happy well would you date a guy who makes a minimum wage probably not uh in college I went

Arya Rileydown that route and I started dancing and he started to hate me and it just never like if you're if there's a big wage Gap it doesn't work out H wait

Arya Rileythere's if there's a big yeah if I'm making like a a lot more money than the guy that I'm dating like there just seems that jealousy is always AC crude

Nicoleokay yeah I would say someone who like makes a comparable amount to me obviously right now I'm a barista I'm a minimum wage worker so it's not like I just don't want to be the one paying for everything basically like kind of FO

Brian Atlasyou're you're 23 right yeah are you in school right now I am I go to UCSB what remind me what are you studying political science political science and you're currently a barista would you date a barista yeah okay currently

Nicolecurrently anyways um but later on down the road you said you going forward yeah someone who could support a family which I it depends on where you live family what that would be but or at least

Carolinesomeone who could contribute 50% to supporting a family okay what about you um as long as he or she has a job I don't really care sure yeah um yeah as long as they have a good work ethic and

Isabelle Browna livable income for whatever area they're in then yeah okay Isabelle I'm not d so it's really hard for me to answer this question but I do think it's interesting we were talking about

Isabelle Brownpriorities and in your finances and your early 20s versus later on in life I'm at that stage that a lot of you guys are talking about later on the road when you start thinking about buying a house and having kids and paying the mortgage and car payments and all of that stuff so

Isabelle Brownit's fascinating in my own life how I've approached that a whole lot differently I think your priorities just really change I think a lot less about luxury and designer Brands and how fancy of a car I can drive or how big of a house

Isabelle Brownreally the simplistic things in life look a whole lot more appealing as I get closer to my wedding day and a beautiful little house on a little land with beautiful family sounds pretty darn great to me but I'm actually really

Isabelle Brownsurprised to hear such common language around the table today about someday when I get married and have kids out of total curiosity how many of you still want that how many of you want to get married and still have kids almost

Northyeverybody maybe not um not kids I don't think that's the route for me how about marriage yeah I'd be down for marriage if I find a partner that I enjoy and we're like sorry if I find a partner that I enjoy and we're both on the same

Northylevel I'd want to spend my time with that partner rather than like kids potentially like ruining the relationship that I have with someone I finally like settled down with honestly I'm floored that every single person

Isabelle Brownaround this table wants to get married and it really mirrors my last experience on the whatever podcast which I just wrote about in my book actually you know I think a lot of people expect Our Generation to be extremely degenerate we

Isabelle Brownare bucking tradition and we don't appreciate traditional and Timeless values we certainly don't live in a very Pro marriage culture we have the lowest marriage rate America has ever seen actually right now although new studies are saying it's bouncing back after

Isabelle Browncovid which is great but I've heard that 93% of Our Generation mostly in college still still wants to get married and that's exactly what we're seeing around this table so that's just a fascinating observation I think it's are you really seeing it around the table because when

Andrew WilsonI'm seeing around the table is a bunch of women who are like yeah sure I'll marry a dude who makes $150,000 a year and pays for all my [ __ ] that sounds a lot different than I'm looking to get married to me said that that sounds

Nicolesounds abely not absolutely not I'm curious which one of us said that uh well so as we're going around the table right what do you think that

Andrew Wilsonwhen you say a man who can support himself and is supporting himself and can support a family if he lives in the Santa barar area what do you think that would take if you had to guess um

Luceprobably over 300,000 a year but we're not talking about this specific location we're not including the fact that each of us are I think everyone around the table is willing to have a two income

Lucehousehold do you agree or do you disagree I think partnership is everything my dad and my stepmom my dad is 16 years older than my stepmom they've been together for 18 years now

Lucehe invested in her company and now she makes more money than him and she's the main provider of our household I think that he gave her wait he gave her money for her company and now she's paid it

Luceall back her company is doing much better um or it's doing well I mean and now she makes more money than him and Pays His mortgage um and she's also helping me pay for my college so women providers that's called dividends that's

Andrew Wilsoncalled dividends that's how that works when you invest in a company and it does well you get money back out of it that's how work abolutely but she is a female he could have done he could have done that without any marriage right yeah but I think if you find a partner who's

Lucewilling to work with you and grow grow with you and create a sustainable life for you and a future family I think that's an absolutely beautiful thing for both Partners to have ambition and also

LuceI would be perfectly happy you know marrying a woman who makes more money than me or less money than me or marrying a man who makes more money than me or less money than me as long as um

Lucein our combined household we can ensure the safety of one another and we both have similar mindsets with financial planning Investments retirement fund

Andrew Wilsonum college funds if we are planning to have children uh rough IRAs that type of issue what about uh what about the love thing is that is that is that the most important factor or the money thing for

Lucemarriage absolutely love for marriage is that more important than money is that the question yeah nothing in life is free if you marry someone for the money you earn every penny that's what my mom would

Lucetell me when I was a kid I'm sure she would so it would be money no no the point is is that if you marry someone for the money you earn every penny because you you choose a life of unhappiness I think that that was the

Lucelesson she always taught me you have to be open-minded you know not everything in life is material and I think because there are so many ways to make money independently um and I mean for example

Lucewriting your own book and like creating your own platform I think there's less of a necessity for women to marry solely for money when in the past and not that long ago we couldn't even have our own credit cards you know without the permission of a man

Luceyeah but you also didn't incur any debt that's why he couldn't have credit cards yeah but we were owned property by men you you weren't owned property that's ridiculous there's not a point in human history where women have been property

Isabelle Brownof men that's not what I said I said you weren't owned property in this country ever me personally no but no no women women were not in the United States women were never considered legal

Luceproperty of another proper but if you are if you're if you're don't have body autonomy and you can't make your own income and you have to rely on being married in order to have any type of

Northysocial standing could always make their own income in the United States where on Earth did you get the idea that they couldn't guys did you learn this in feminist studies but like white women like were

Lucenot really accepted into the working class if you want to argue I I'm not saying there's was no room for income and that there was no room for any type

Luceof sustain life or women to you know create some type of wealth until really war time women weren't allowed in the workforce and that was only because were no men in the workforce were they not

Andrew Wilsonthey were still they were still nurses they were still teachers they were still doing all sorts jet what you me job do right now by the way they were doing hang on doing hang on just calm down

Lucerelax they were doing clerical work they were teaching they were nursing they were doing all the same jobs that they're BAS basically doing right now okay well there are plenty of women who

Andrew Wilsonare moving up in corporate worlds as well as moving up in different SE there's not very many women who are moving up with the corporate ladder in corporate world why there's so many there's so few female CEOs for a reason

Andrew Wilsonthey're not they don't gravitate towards that kind of work okay you're right you're right I'm wrong women are just they are only meant to do domestic work no I don't I don't think that's what he's saying that's not what I said

Andrew Wilsonthat's a mischaracterization I'm just explaining to you the reality I I don't understand why you're being so aggressive I haven't been mean to you just explaining to you for it um what what the reality the situation is go ahead and then Isabelle will go go ahead what what does this have to do with

Andrew Wilsonwomen not being able to own like have their own credit cards or open a bank account in their own well because women not being able to have bank accounts and credit cards because they weren't allowed to incur debt this was great because right now the biggest holders of

Andrew Wilsondebt in the United States are women it's crushing for most women before that men had to all the debt so the wife could go out and spend all of the money that she wanted in her husband's name and he had

Andrew Wilsonto incur the debt even post divorce he still had to take care of the debt she had none of it in her name this was one of the primary uh arguments against feminisms from the from the anti-su Jets

Nicoleis that they did not want to incur debt and now women have racked up tons and tons of it I mean so have men it's crushing for men too so I mean I don't really think anyone should be forced to incur debt so I'm not sure why well you

Andrew Wilsonknow what I think that if I asked a man if he got married if all of the debt would be incurred by the woman and all he had to do was not have a credit card Bank take that deal in 5 seconds what do you mean by not be

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)forced to incur any debt it means that everything that I all money that I spent on Motorsports donated

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)$200 in 1877 the woman was elected mayor in Kansas your history sucks accuracy matters you are in fact wrong dot

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)feminism has failed you patriarchy is the way to the truth and stands ready to help be better yo G one thank you uh you had a question for her I just wanted to get some clarification there nobody should

Nicolebe forced to incur debt what does that mean just like an a purely hypothetical like perfect world no one would be taking on debt to like go to college well let's talk about the real world okay in the real world I I mean that's

Nicolenot possible but I don't think that it should I mean basically you're implying that it's good that it's men's responsibility to incur all debt and I feel like if that were actually the case then we would be in a different argument where it would be like well women suck

Andrew Wilsonbecause women don't incur any debt and we incur all of their debt so I feel like it's just kind of like a bad faith argument I don't know well it's not a bad faith argument it's just giving a descriptor for why it happened that way

Andrew Wilsonwhy it was that women and there was far more anti-suffrage jet than there were Pro suffragettes by the way made very compelling arguments like they didn't want to get drafted for instance they

Andrew Wilsondidn't want see what what the anti-s suffer jet said said was that women had the moral High Ground because they weren't political tools they weren't political tools because they couldn't vote so they weren't tapped into as

Andrew Wilsonbeing political tools so when they said something they said it from a position of moral Authority they weren't being tapped into so this is how they were able to argue successfully for for things in women's interest without being

Andrew Wilsonjust considered another voting block that needed to be appealed to when it came to debt and things like this it is true that women didn't hold their they could have accounts by the way but most of the time when they open up lines of

Andrew Wilsoncredit and debt and accounts it was always in their husband's name but the husband was also responsible for all of the debt the women weren't and even when the man died the woman would get his property but it it may not be the same

Andrew Wilsonuh if a woman died that he would automatically default and get the property she was able to incur all sorts of wealth for herself and didn't have to spend it do you think that's a more preferable system would you like to like go back to that Financial well I think

Andrew Wilsonit's I think it's a more preferable system to begin to move women outside of the workplace that way we can go back to a family Dynamic that works and we can get the reproductive uh health of the

NicoleUnited States back up because right now it's in the gutter I don't know if you know this or not but it's in the gutter so our birth rate's way low then why would it be a problem for any of us to say we'd like a man who can support a family like if why is that a problem if

Nicoleyou think that men should be incurring all the debt and taking on all the financial responsibility if a woman says well I'd like a man who can support a family in Santa Barbara because because this is a this is a cyclical problem the

Andrew Wilsonproblem is if you say I would love to have a single income support me but then at the same time not recognize the problem that if you double the workforce you're going to have the wages of men that you're basically perpetuating the

Andrew Wilsonsame issue that you're against

LuceH jump in I just I think it's last thing after you make your point go ahead no no no you're fine say your thing but I'm going to move on after that go ahead yeah no I just think it's for me it's kind of the constant dichotomy of men

Luceconstantly arguing oh well women want women or women want men to pay for everything and want us to take care of them but then it's also the idea of oh well women can't do any jobs that aren't nursing or being a teacher or doing all

Lucethese things naturally in the workforce because women whether or not you want to argue these aspects of history on a mass scale entered the workforce at a later date

Lucethe same thing with how women entered professional sports at a later date or any other kind of gendered aspect of life which is most of society you're welcome to introduct well really quick

Brian Atlason the professional sports thing so are you what exactly when you bring up professional sports mean because women got into professional sports at a later date that's the reason why there's like

Lucea paid discrepancy in I think of course there's a paid discrepancy in sporting events based off of turnout in these other things but I'm saying there's no Foundation of growth if you are able to

Luceacquire wealth and work jobs for hundreds of years whether it is or decades whether it's being a doctor whether it's being a lawyer and these institutions only existed under the

Luceguidance of men being able to do those things such as Harvard only being a male only school until the last 50 or 60

Andrew Wilsonyears I'm still talking that's ridiculous because my grandmother hang on women have always out women have always outdone men academically including in high school they've always

Andrew Wilsonhad better scores always that has been the case and there was no barrier for public education early feminists were flying all over the world they were writing books they were writing pamphlets they were writing essays and they were highly educated no men were

Lucepushing them out of those domains of Academia I think I hear you and I understand that that's your perspective and I want to acknowledge that there are so no there are so many smart scholarly

Lucewomen but it is an absolute reality that women's work has been discredited I canite um I you know I study biological who what woman's was discredited because look up when women

Andrew Wilsonwere allowed to attend Harvard University for me quickly yeah why but who cares if that was exclusive there was tons of other universities for them to attend to prestigious M only College anyway if somebody wants to have

Luceprestigious universities catered exclusively to men and women entered these different aspects of the workforce later it will take more time that's not

Lucewhat happened and gradual project it will take gradual progress for women to continue to be in those fields of study are there probably statistically in the

LuceUS more male chemists or lawyers at UCSB for example the majority of professors on the panel of the chemistry Department are white men but does that mean in the

Andrew Wilsonnext 20 years applied science that's why they all get sociology sociology tell me the science of why men perform higher in in chemistry you got to let me respond go

Andrew Wilsonahead tell me what you're doing is you talk so much I can't I can't actually tell me the Statics of how men perform higher to go Point by Point let's go let's go with point one sure yes it is true that when you're talking about um

Andrew Wilsonyou know scientific Fields especially chemistry that's an applied science women don't go for applied science they don't that's actually not entirely true

Andrew Wilsonwomen make up the majority of St let me finish okay calm down soft Sciences are preferable by women they prefer soft science I don't know why right nobody

Andrew Wilsonknows why well I mean we have an inkling as to why but they don't they don't prefer it the hard Sciences are preferred by men that's why you see mostly men inside hard science fields that is

Isabelle Browntrue yeah so as of recently the majority of St degrees actually are being pursued by women I think a lot of that can be attributed to the modern cultural femin

Isabelle BrownFe feminism movement at no no no the devil's in the details what kind of stem degrees largely The Sciences I I have a degree two degrees actually in bio medical Sciences one in undergrad and

Isabelle Brownone in graduate school what about engineering but correct women statistically make up less of engineering programs until recently women women are becoming a much larger growing demographic these but this is my

Andrew Wilsonqu my question is okay hang on hang on hang on just saying it's a stem field is not relevant for instance if you look at the replication crisis you'll note that it's not just sociology which it affects but the medical field as well medical

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)fields are full of stem degrees however it's not always replicatable science it fails up to 60% of the time that's still a sof science saying that doesn't mean

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)anything a yeah the stupid in you must really hurt men went to Harvard or Yale which M only women went to Brown and others Brown was all female are you

Isabelle Browntrying to be this stupid anyway my my question is you know we can talk about men generally having more analytically structured brains and that's why they've pursued applied sciences larger than the soft Sciences

Isabelle Brownwhich women generally have pursued out of a more empathetic emotional perspective historically and they still do tend to pursue those career paths I guess my question for you loose is if women have been strategically held back

Isabelle Brownfor so long by Society if they've in your own words taken so much extra time to be admitted to schools like Harvard or to be given professional athletic opportunities Etc we could keep going example by example then what's the

Isabelle Brownsolution are you just saying women are always going to be considered in your worldview second class citizens or is there is there a a change that needs to happen in your perspective Society to accomplish that I'm not saying that

Lucewomen are second class citizens in the United States and I'm not saying that in my personal experience I felt second class to anyone I I acknowledged certain privileges that I've had and the ability

Luceto pursue education Etc but I do absolutely think when there is a woman expectation for example when um my dad

Luceleft my mom she became a stay-at-home single mother and she was living off of of alimony and child support um but she

Luceneeded to be taken care of two kids in the home at that time and the court um um kind of put that onto her my dad did not want custody and I think very often women are forced into positions of

Lucenurturing and caring for whether it's their Partners um their children Etc and I'm not saying that that's a bad thing or a wrong thing and I'm not saying that you know I personally do feel like I do

Lucehave some level of a nurturing or more maternal aspect to me that maybe a man might not have but I think it's very hard to succeed in your career for many women who don't have the soci to

Luceeconomic standing or certain privileges to pursue those fields without you know the consequence of having to take care of you know whether it's younger

Lucesiblings or their own children or being forced into positions of choosing career versus family I think um is anyone

Andrew Wilsonfamiliar with the the uh poet Sylvia Plath oh yeah I'm very familiar Sylvia PL do you do you know how Sylvia PL met her demise I do and my

Lucepoint is she writes a tell them how tell them how they she committed suicide and she wasn't necessarily oh excuse me whatever just continue sorry um she wasn't necessarily the greatest person in the world but she did write a poem no

Luceshe really wasn't was she she was pretty awful wasn't she she was awful but she did write a discussion about a poem called one fig tree and she basically discusses how as a woman she felt like

Luceshe had three paths in life a famous poet a mother with a good husband and good children or a famous or a scholarly professor and I think that's a choice that women are

Luceoften expected to choose is family you know career Hobbies whereas men often get the immediate option of choosing career and that's not necessarily to say

Andrew Wilsonall men want that but I do think women are asked to sacrifice pictur of aborted fetuses and she also wrote poems about un she also wrote all kinds of insane

Andrew Wilsonpoems she was a she was but she's a okay is she a lunatic any more than any crazy any of the feminists no she's not any more of a lunatic than any of them she was actually self-proclaimed not feminist so do not associate her with

Andrew Wilsonthat she is a feminist and her husband was a feminist and supported all of her work with his money cuz she was a feminist he propagated the feminist agenda um but my point is is

Lucethat I think a lot of women are asked to sacrifice more individually than men are on a career scale or on a family scale

Lucenuclear family for example what so what about the nuclear family is asking women to sacrifice things men is how many men do you know that were ever stay-at-home

Lucestay-at-home dads my dad for one for several years statically huh sorry go ahead go ahead I'm just saying there there is an expectation on women na from

Lucewhether it's a natural perspective or an evolved perspective women bear children for a duration of 9 to 10 months they have to take care of them biologically post birth whether it's through

Lucebreastfeeding or other Acquisitions and I think because of those biological factors we have been forced more into the nurturing role in a social sphere as

Brian Atlaswell wait that's a powerful word for force is a really powerful wait hold on hold on hold on can you just repeat you said that how many men do you know who what who who you know stay-at home dads

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)versus One Motorsports donated $200 if you think it is easy to be a man read self-made Man by nor Vincent your little mind will explode your simplistic

Brian Atlasarguments insult literally everyone watching this program let the adults talk uh for those who don't know Nora Vincent a woman who did this like kind of experiment where she basically uh

Brian Atlaslived as a man I don't think she was a transgender but she uh dressed like a man looked like a man lived like a man and she was like cuz she's a feminist oh this is going to be

Brian Atlasso easy blah blah blah all this privilege and then actually is just totally brutal like the social aspects of it um but you were saying something about uh well how many men do you know

Lucewho would I I stay home agreed but I or to your point I think it is very hard to be a man the same way it's very hard to be a woman the same way it's very hard to be a human being um no part of my

Luceargument was saying that it's not thing with the stay-at home parent though I just think statistically until very recently it was significantly less likely that men would be stay-at-home

Luceparents as well as the failure of our career system not allowing men to take paternal leave well do you think that do you think that there's

Lucejust I would argue that there's like who would you say is to blame for that that like men just they don't want to be I'm not blaming anyone I'm not blaming anyone I'm saying it is a natural part

Brian Atlasof our society that women have been forced not forced excuse me right with that Lang ear didn't you earlier say that you want a guy to pay for the first date if he asks me out if I ask him out

Brian AtlasI'm happy to pay do you ask guys out yeah I have okay generally speaking do you think who's initiating first States um obviously men probably St 99% of first AIDS men are the ones initiating I

Lucedon't know men are kind of scared these days so I would say I would say even but all I was saying all I was saying that because of the actual biological factor of being a

Lucechildbearing woman not that all women are I think there is a standard in our society that women are these nurturing roles and that reflects in the careers

Brian Atlasthat you Proclaim that women I'm going back to this you stated something about hold hold on hold on hold on you stated you stated something about well men they wouldn't be these stay-at-home fathers

Lucewell that's amazing hold on you said something about I didn't you okay I then restate it for me I'm saying when you consider when you consider the fact that even if you look

Lucein the court of law even when the mother is the unfit parent the court of law in a divorce case will always favor the woman getting custody sounds like a female privilege doesn't it I mean if

Brian Atlashaving to deal with kids three screaming children on your own is a privilege to you maybe but I think that aspect of fale privil was created by if there's a custody if there's a custody dispute

Brian Atlassomebody's desirous of having custody sure so let's assume that it's the man Whose desire and custody and the woman doesn't want it that that wouldn't be a male privilege that he doesn't get C guys why do you think I'm saying male

Luceprivilege or female privilege I'm saying objectively in the court of law they favor women and that's a negative a lot a lot of the time for men who want to participate in parenting I think women are looked at as mothers in so society

Luceand that's not necessarily always true and not necessarily looked at as as wallets and providers and dispos terrible I'm sorry that that's in your experience I'm not saying one is worse than the other or one's untr but you

Brian Atlassaid something I'm trying to get back to the original point you said something about single uh stay-at-home fathers yeah what what was your argument I I was just stating that there there are less

Brian Atlasstay-at-home Fathers as well as the failure of our career system that does not allow a lot of men to take because of a mating pressure that women put on men not because there's a that's

Brian Atlasentirely a mating pressure that women impose on men we went around this table all of you said the guy has to make this much money he has to pay for the first date blah blah blah that's a mating

Lucepressure you impose I mean I've multiple different I think it's difficult to argue that oh well this has nothing to do with this and

Lucethis is the only reason that this this is aligned and this is the only problem like none of us are arguing that men don't have problems in dating I'm not saying that it's ethical that men are expected to be providers but when you

Lucecreate a system in which there is a historical aspect where women were meant to provide children and essentially sex

Andrew Wilsonto men a man provides his own service that is his service care of his family that system what's wrong with that system that's a good system we need women to provide children nobody else

Isabelle Browncan provide children except women we're in overpopulation actually we're not we are approaching population decline rapidly around decline across the board not only we in Decline across the board

Andrew Wilsonbut if you look at some of the Asian Nations like South Korea for instance it's not even one to one for replacement if you look at Japan right now they're they're about to have a crisis where they have more elderly people than they

Isabelle Brownhave young people to take care of the elderly people this most power count World actually cannot replace their current population so my question becomes this to you right my question

Andrew Wilsonbecomes why is this a bad system why do you think that it's bad that women are moved by Society to stay at home and take care of their children why do you think that that's bad that seems to be

Andrew Wilsonthe most efficient system could you even think of a better system like tell me if you could come up with your dream system what would it even be other than that my dream s i I can't wait to have children

LuceI love children personally it's never been a question for me I can't wait to have children I love children um I work with kids a bunch and like I think it's such a great blessing U motherhood not

Lucethat everyone needs it but for me personally so I'm not at all anti-child but I'm just argu I I personally would love to um have a family and have that Dynamic so you actually can't think of a

Lucebetter system than that um in my in my ideal world I would love to have a partner who would go true 5050 with me on caring for the children as well as um

Andrew Wilsonworking as much as I work obviously my he's working if but but if if you had the ideal system wouldn't your ideal system actually be that you could spend all of your time with your children no

Lucewhile your husband work because I don't women because I would like the um equal sacrifice in my relationship where I love children I can't wait to be a mother but I don't you know I don't need to be my The Sole Provider of my

Lucechildren for 24 hours a day I would love to have a partnership where they are more than willing to help me you know feed take care of the children if I need a day you know but how's that equal if he's working um because I could I could

Andrew Wilsonwork as well there's so many different but that's my but so this brings us back to the original question then is your time better spent working or is your time better spent at home with your children not Outsourcing their care to

Andrew Wilsonsomebody else while you're working would you so for instance let's say you had a baby little Samantha do you think that little Samantha wants to go and get taken care of by V by some Venezuelan immigrant while you go work all day do

Luceyou think that that's preferable I had an opar growing up um from she was a Haitian opare and she was one of the most beautiful amazing women and I never felt like it took away from my experience with my mother you prefer

Andrew Wilsonthat over your mom um I never felt like it took away from my experience with my mother that's not what I asked you did you prefer it over your own mother probably really you preferred that this

Lucethis uh not mother not every woman can be a great mother not every man can be a great father and I think theem so Outsource

Luceyour kids you don't have to if I am in a position in which I have can adjust work hours or take time off of work or make sure my schedule aligns or take off work

Luceuntil my children are in school and only work during school hours Etc I find that to be not a problem at all Andrew can I know I I understand what you're saying but let me let me give it back to you one more time

Andrew Wilsonwhy do you think it would be preferable if you had the option to stay at home to Outsource your mothering to a stranger of your children how what world does that make I'm not saying that I would have to do it to a stranger of my children um everyone has different

Lucerelationship Dynamics different Financial statuses you know maybe I have my my parents are able to help take care or my sister which is a very natural

Andrew Wilsonpart of nobody or maybe the daycare right don't you think preferable for wom who avoid daycare if you want to ask the question and you want my answer do you want me to answer well your question your answers are really longwinded you

Lucesee short I will do short and sweet I will do short and sweet I don't I want to love my children in every way that I can and I want to be an amazing mother

Luceand I think if I spend my entire time losing my identity as an individual and only seeing myself as a mother I will not be able to do you mean only wait what could possibly be more important than being a mother there's nothing you

Andrew Wilsoncould ever do your life that's more important for a man it's more important do that's more important than being a mother father God being a good one that makes no that makes no sense

Arya Rileythat makes so much sense what that makes complete sense also I might be misunderstanding the conversation but also wa wait wait hang on hang on I just want to make sure I got this right what's more important than being a mother okay being a good mother okay

Lucegreat what's more important then than being a good mother nothing and being a good mother every step in my life to assure that I can be a good mother whether that's

Andrew Wilsonworking whether that's bying it to to the Venezuelan immigrant yeah your D what's wrong with a Venezuelan immigrant maybe she lives at home with me and she's an amazing woman I mean do you

Andrew Wilsonconsider yourself is his name Andrew mhm Andrew do you consider yourself like a traditional person like would you say that a traditional mindset consider myself tra uh or what is considered to

Andrew Wilsonbe tra in modernity at all I never have I don't think we should go back to the 1950s or any of this nonsense what I'm saying specifically though is this that there is no better system that any of you can name than the nuclear family for

Andrew Wilsonthe backbone of society that's going to require stay-at-home mothers there's nothing else that's better than that we see the population declining it's falling off like a rock and so when I ask what is it that's more important than being good Mother at home none of

Andrew Wilsonyou are going to be able to say that that's not the most important job and yet for some reason women seem to want to Outsource that job to other people even though it's theirs husband can work take care of you you stay home no I have

Northyaspiring dreams that surmount being a mother when there's nothing else you could do that's more important than that can I say something go ahead I think the ideal Dynamic would be subjective to the two people in that Dynamic and Andrew

Northycan you try to Center yourself go ahead I think it's silly to try and tell other people in these relationships what to do because it's not your relationship you don't know what's best for them um you know we don't know what's best in your relationship Andrew we shouldn't we're

Andrew Wilsonnot saying what listen I'm not talking on the individual level everybody's individual situation is going to be different nobody disputes that that's true but we can look at what is optimal and if we're looking at what is optimal

Andrew Wilsonfor the most amount of people what's optimal for the most amount of people is having a stay-at-home mom who takes care of their children and a father who works how do we know that that's optimal because we can look at the results of

Andrew Wilsonthe kids and what happens with the kids when they come from single mother households when they come from split family households we can see exactly what happens and it is not preferable to society in any way shape or form let's

Northysay it's optimal and best for the child for the parents to have a dynamic that works best for them where they can healthily show up for their kid the best way they can whether it or not it be like a woman in the household taking

Andrew Wilsoncare of the children or a father in the household taking care of the children it doesn't really matter like what works best for them is best in some certain circumstances flip the script that's true would be exceptions to the rule

Andrew Wilsonfor instance it's going to be optimal for a mom to stay at home over a dad at least in the formative years of the child right she has to breastfeed she has to do all these things which are necessary for the health living

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)underated $200 question for first girl how often do you advocate for male lonely scholarships fostering male educational

Brian Atlasenvironment Etc why are feminists not pushing for graduation par now I never hear it now isn't it the case what what is the disparity it's like two uh 2 to

Brian Atlasthree 3 to2 like 60% of women are going to college versus 40% like it's 6040 I think is the split you go to UCSB correct correct I think it's 6040 at

LuceUCSB what do you have to say about that is that due to sexism um I think that that is really terrible and that everyone should have yeah I think everyone should have full access and opportunity for Education absolutely

Luceevery person on this planet whether or not I agree with them whether they have different political views than me any gender race everyone has the right to education and our entire American

Luceeducation system is flawed it's super expensive there's a lot of pressure to get straight into the workforce I think as we're talking about these different nuclear family Dynamics there is extra pressure on men to get straight into the

Andrew Wilsonworkforce and I don't necessarily agree with that I think that um well I don't know who's going to run all the infrastructure and so we don't get young men out there in the workforce building all the infastructure in society because

Northywomen aren't doing that men are doing that I think there's like a really big phenomen phenomenon happening today too where there are a lot of depressed men that aren't really it's not really being talked about absolutely so I think that

Brian Atlascould also be a driving factor to the gender disparity of people attending college and universities let me get a couple chats here uh pilia slth was AB absolutely shocked to see luche how do you say your

Brian Atlasname sorry loose when I hopped in tonight I love your poetry anyways big fan of the podcast Brian let's have a clean show tonight ladies and gentlemen good stuff loose JJ oh thanks JJ someone said

Brian Atlassomething nice to you there you have it we have the Nordic Catholic for the ladies what do you think of men in the nursing field and is it okay for a man to be a nurse yeah yeah it's a great career of

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)course it's actually more competitive to get into nursing Motorsports donated $200 Andrew is right you should should listen if each of you were to die tomorrow and come back as a baby would

Andrew Wilsonyou rather have a nanny raise you a daycare or your loving mother feel free to go well according to her she she she thought it was better to be raised by somebody other than her mother that's

Lucewhat she said had a mother who um was not a good mother personally um and my dad is an amazing person my stepmom's an amazing person so I think all family Dynamics are different I agree it's also subjective don't you think maybe one of

Lucethe reasons your mom wasn't such a great mom is cuz she out sourced how you were raised to a stranger um no I don't thank God she did because I don't think I'd be here

Arya Rileyword as I was saying I agree it's subjective if a mother is unfit I would prefer a nanny I love my Mom I would also love a a loving mother to raise me but also not all mothers are

Carolinegood Mothers like she's saying private chat Nick pull that [ __ ] up loving mother yeah my mom um as a professional nanny I have seen that the parents are

Carolinemore important and it probably does damage some of the kids because they become more attached to me than to their parents and I feel like that's definitely going to give them abandonment problems when they're older I majored in Psychology and I think that

Carolinesome of the kids I have watched became more attached to me than to their mother which was very sad especially when I'm only there for a year or two and I mainly watch infants so they are very attached to me instead of their parents and their parents are good parents but

Andrew Wilsonthey're not around their child as much as I'm around child no no no no no there's so many bad mothers that we have to Outsource all of the children to nannies and other people because mothers

Andrew Wilsonare apparently Psychopaths who don't love their children enough that only sounds moderately insane to me I don't think it's true at all but just you know just my two s well it's real what if the

Andrew Wilsonparents have mental mental illness they can't look at the exceptions to all the rules and then make policy for society based on exceptions that's and a lot of mothers go through F canist

Andrew Wilsonand yes maybe those suboptimal situations you can uh you know have somebody come in in order to regulate the child being raised but in most situations that is not the case and there's nobody who's going to be better

Isabelle Brownfor the Health and Welfare of your children than you can nobody's ever going to love them more than you can I just ask again for clarification every single hand went up around the table when you said you wanted to get married theoretically someday who is looking

Isabelle Brownforward to being a mom around the table or wants kids in some capacity High please put them high this I mean that's fascinating to me all but two in a society where we have the the lowest

Isabelle Brownbirth rate ever we literally can't even replace our own population and I think it's unquestionable to say that feminism is really steering women away from wanting to have children today they're looked at as a burden to your career your personal life heck even climate change is now a reason not to have kids

Isabelle Brownbecause it's destroying the planet as we hear from a lot of uh politicians currently in Washington so I mean that is wild to me at the same time no knowing that you guys want to get married and that you want to have children how many of you your you would consider yourselves to be modern

Lucefeminists starting with you who would call yourself a feminist I've never I've never thought about it you don't consider yourself a feminist I I really don't like restricting myself to any

Isabelle Brownlike form of label okay don't like labels what is the actual definition of a feminist well I don't know that we have a definition today to be honest with you I think feminism yeah I can give you a good definition for feminism if you'd like one for today let's hear

Andrew Wilsonyours yeah so this would be the belief in an egalitarian structure where men and women are both equal in nature and equal

Andrew Wilsonin equity and equal under the law I I would okay question if that's really the definition of feminism for most modern feminists no no no that is the most the

Andrew Wilsonthe best definition that I can give that the most amount of feminists would agree with and I'm willing to grant them the nicest definition that I can come up with to show them how bad it still is

Andrew Wilsoneven if I did that's your most charitable definition my most charitable definition the nicest good clarification charitable way that I could possibly do

Northyit if that's the definition I would say um I prefer Justice over equality I like to look at things more subjectively everyone's going to have a different experience or have different um

Andrew Wilsonstruggles or strengths and I think subjectivity is more important than a label I agree when you talk of just a quick followup if you don't mind very

Andrew Wilsonquickly um when you say justice can you tell us what Justice is so let's say you are at like a baseball game this is like an old

Northylike really really old like Facebook post um and you are like watching over the stand a man can watch over the stand he's tall enough a woman needs a stool and a child needs

Northytwo that's Equity though what makes that Justice I would say more so that's Justice okay so what makes it just so you are looking at something more

Northysubjectively so it's a subjective metric for subjective and so is all Justice subjective you are applying what the person specifically needs I'm not really

Andrew Wilsonsure I understand what you're asking yeah so let me let me let me explain when I ask you what Justice is right it's actually it's a hard question I don't blame you for not knowing off the top of your head

NorthyI'm asking what's your grounding Justice on what is the grounding foundation for what you consider Justice to be for me and how I look at things like I said previously I think it's subjective what

Northya person needs is what we should strive to like give them you know whether it be in a family Dynamic a child with disabilities Etc yeah but that's not a grounding

Andrew Wilsonfoundation for why we should do that it's just your belief that we should why we should do that yeah um I think um at the end of the day it's because we are

Andrew Wilsonit'll bring a sense of community we care and love about each other so you so outcomes sorry so it's outcomes based basically you're looking at outcomes and you're saying that if we're a just

Andrew WilsonSociety under what you consider just to be the outcomes are going to be better for society I mean I'm not sure I'm following

Andrew Wilsoncorrectly if I ask you so try to make this is like really Crystal Clear if I'm asking you what is Justice and you give an example and I ask you but why should we do it you say because it makes for a

Northybetter Society then wouldn't you really be basing Justice on outcomes so I suppose so like for an example for justice let's say somebody like Robs a store and harms an innocent shopkeeper they should be arrested and prosecuted

Andrew Wilsonbut we shouldn't be arresting everyone and Prosecuting them for robbing a store yeah but why shouldn't we arrest them take out and put them in front of a firing squad immediately why would that

Northybe unjust then you like dive into the um philosophy of morality at that point yeah well well that's what Justice is justice is the philosophy of morality right yes so like for my personal

Northystandpoint it would be my own values and morality of why I'm saying what I'm saying I'm not saying it's every opinion yeah got it okay so it's a subjective metric based on your subjective interpretation of what Justice ought to

Isabelle Brownbe sure okay so wouldn't consider yourself a feminist necessarily wouldn't consider yourself a feminist necessar consider myself a feminist I think based

Isabelle Brownoff of like that specific definition of just wanting I don't even think we have to tie it to that definition but just what modern feminism has looked like for Our Generation I personally I think that

Lucemen and women should just be treated equally and and have you know of course there's discrepancies gender discrepancies I won't I won't act like

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)differences I think in some worlds they're not living donated $200 notice how when men are at a clear societal disadvantage it's called depression or everyone should have equal

TTS/Andrew Wilson (alt segment)access sounds like all lives matter to me why is it not sexism in your eyes I'm not going to deny that in like social terms there are a lot of things happening to men right now um but I'm

Northynot going to deny that there are a lot of things happening to woman I do think it's unfair that a man can have his reputation ruined just by pissing off some girl like I've seen it happen but I don't think it's all that common and I

Andrew Wilsonthink a lot of women that have had talked about bad experiences with men are usually not believed well there's a there's an easy way actually for us to determine at the table who's a feminist and who is not if you don't want to go

Andrew Wilsonwith the definition I'll just ask a single question do you guys believe that being a stay-at-home mom holds women

Isabelle Brownback it's a great question no no no some sometimes just really quick around the table please no no no

Isabelle Brownabsolutely not okay are you a feminist no I don't know honestly yes you don't know anything okay no no I wouldn't

Brian Atlasconsider myself a modern feminist no all right huh fascinating Nick do you have that stuff pulled up I finally want to get back to

Brian Atlasmy okay you said your friend was all upset about you had a friend come on she got blasted online I just think that a

Lucelot of these ideas maybe like personally I feel like throughout my conversation here I I actually would consider myself to be really open-minded and like I love

Lucehearing other people's points of view but I I found the tendency of like every time I would say something you'd say you think this way you 100% are arguing that you believe this thing but I just I don't think that that's true kind of a

Brian Atlasmeta conversation so I'm asking you specifically about the thing with your friend oh when she was on this show right sure I'm trying to get back there

Luceum yeah I just think that she was maybe cornered in the sense of being told this is what you think this is all who you are I just think it's really hard to encapsulate people's full

Clip Audio/Backgroundpoint of view pull the video one the second from a segment of their experience is the audio blasted yeah is that you you dat police officer no the

Clip Audio/Backgroundpigs because the um institution they support is inherently racist and profiles of black and brown Americans especially throws them into jail which is a continuation of the slave trade

Clip Audio/Backgroundessentially people are working in prisons for less than minimum wage making pennies and dimes and it's unfair and that's what you contribute to if you're a cop my question to you is I I

Clip Audio/Backgrounddisagree with you on yeah I bet you do white boy that's a bit racist oh my God no you're one of those how can

Clip Audio/Backgroundyou be racist against and I'm also half so like how can I be racist against you you don't think you can be racist towards someone who's white no I don't because you've never experienced racism in history white people haven't

Clip Audio/Backgroundexperienced racism one of the experien what's your definition of racism um I'd say basically like the persecution in any type of way that leads to the downfall of just like someone's life

Brian Atlaslike play the second one really quick go ahead

Clip Audio/BackgroundI think that's really easy to say you just started that 50c yeah I got it it's always going to affect my life I can't take off my skin color as a black woman like prejudices that exist against me don't existed against you Brian and

Brian Atlasthat's why you can't be racist against a white person so I'm sorry feel offended but you are white and me calling you white boy isn't exactly bit I mean it's a you are addressing me by my skin color I consider your skin color will never

Brian Atlaslead to the you know what is it premature murder of yourself like I don't know like I would actually point out one thing to you me as a white man I'm the only male at this table here

Brian Atlasthere are more white men killed by police officers than women of any race combined I mean then why aren't you mad why don't you hate police too because I

Brian AtlasI realize that police are a necessary function of society without police it would be chaos we need police officers I mean of I I I think that's really easy

Clip Audio/Backgroundto say as you once again I'll reiterate a white person again that's not to be racist

Brian Atlasso it's funny that all of you laughed when she called me white boy which is a racist statement unless you disagree and you actually think that it's not racist

Arya Rileyto call a white person a white boy how did it impact your life how how did it what do you mean how did it impact no how is calling you white racist are you

Brian Atlasnot white well hold on there's a certain tone when you say something and her attempting to dismiss my point because of my skin color aside from just the

Arya Rileyword she used occurs to me that that would be a bit racist that I can't weigh in that's not racist well what's your what's your definition of what's your definition of

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