Trent Horn vs. Farha Khalidi DEBATE | Whatever Debates 27
Date: 2026-04-24
Duration: 3h 29m
Brian AtlasIdentified Speakers
SPEAKER_02Farah Khalidi(guest)
SPEAKER_03Brian Atlas(host)
SPEAKER_05Trent Horn(guest)
Key Moments
00:00:27
IntroBrian introduces the debate: Trent Horn vs Farah Khalidi on feminism and sexual ethics
00:37:57
Key MomentFarah says it's better for a woman to engage with a dog than have sex with an abusive husband
01:04:52
QuoteTrent quotes Sir Mix-a-Lot to argue against casual sex
01:28:02
Key MomentTrent says he would not commit adultery even to prevent nuclear holocaust
02:04:08
Key MomentTrent shares emotional story about wife Laura's brain tumor and speech recovery
03:07:50
Key MomentFarah's fiance revealed to be philosopher Jack Symes, whom Trent has cited in arguments
03:27:06
OtherDebate wraps. Trent plugs Council of Trent. Farah plugs OnlyFans.
Topics Discussed
00:00:27
Opening: Feminism and Sexual Ethics
Farah argues sex in marriage is not inherently more respectful. Trent argues for virtue and family.
00:12:18
Purpose of Sex
Trent: sex expresses marital love ordered toward procreation. Farah: only necessary condition is consent and dignity.
00:23:13
Bestiality and Slippery Slopes
Trent argues removing procreative purpose makes it impossible to condemn fetishes. Farah distinguishes disordered from immoral.
00:25:00
OnlyFans and Adultery
Whether Farah bears moral responsibility for married men subscribing to her OnlyFans.
01:36:04
Feminism Definition
Attempts to define feminism. Trent acknowledges historical achievements while rejecting the label.
01:58:00
Marriage Market: Youth vs Career
Trent argues women's options diminish with age. Farah argues career-first meets higher-caliber partners.
02:32:26
No-Fault Divorce
Both agree no-fault divorce should be stigmatized but for different reasons.
03:00:46
Oral Sex Ethics
Final exchange on oral sex ethics and where the line is drawn.
Transcript
Page 4 of 4
02:59:43
Brian Atlascoercion or coercive, but it could be coercive. Uh, but I mean, granting that the question is asked only once. You say the man shouldn't even ask once. The reason he shouldn't ask once is because
02:59:55
Farah Khalidiit's there's a tendency for it to be coercive. >> I think he shouldn't ask in order to make sure it's not done as a result of pressure. So, I think if a woman like cooks it up in her mind herself of like,
03:00:08
Farah Khalidiyou know, I'm really craving having anal sex and it's free from like external pressure, I think it's different for her to pitch and propose it onto him. I think for him to pitch and propose it, I think then it makes it a bit different because because of the statistics on women reporting they felt pressured to
03:00:22
Farah Khalidido it, >> right? And so, okay, anal sex might be >> and I feel the same thing with like sex work. Like, I think it's fine for women to do sex work of their own valition. I think if someone like, you know, nudges them to do it, I think that's compromised. Not necessarily because
03:00:35
Farah Khalidieven just asking once or recommending it once in itself is coercion. Ask once, but because it's something that typically is mirrored in coercion and pressure. You want to ensure that that act is being undertaken like of their own valition.
03:00:46
Brian Atlas>> Okay. Um, but what would you say, I guess, off of anal sex, do you think oral sex, whether it's the man giving it to the woman or the woman giving it to the man, if the man were to ask the
03:00:57
Brian Atlaswoman for a [ __ ] or the woman were to ask the man for uh, you know, to go down on her, do you think it is more coercive in one direction? >> Well, how about this?
03:01:10
Farah Khalidi>> Sorry, not more coercive. >> Let me ask it like this. >> Is it more liable to coercion? Is it is the man asking his girlfriend for a [ __ ] coercive? >> Sorry, I don't think the man asking once for anal is coercive. I said he
03:01:23
Brian Atlasshouldn't do it because it's often liable to coercion. >> But can a woman be coerced into oral sex? >> Because >> can she be coerced? Obviously, she could be coerced into oral sex. >> But hold on. There's a difference
03:01:34
Brian Atlasbetween like uh oral sex and anal sex. like anal sex is perhaps a further uh physical it's a uh perhaps a bigger ask of someone to participate in than just oral sex. >> Well that but even when you look at
03:01:46
Farah Khalidistatistics of women who engage in anal sex they'll often say it was due to like they'll use the words like partner pressure you romantic partner usually and then they'll say afterwards it's painful they didn't really like it etc. So it's based in the idea of like not
03:01:59
Farah Khalidibecause I'm like oh it's because the anus is an exit point on entry point. It's based in the idea of like based in the reality of what women report from feeling it with oral sex for instance like I think I don't think a guy should ask like a girl to swallow. I think
03:02:12
Trent Hornthat's something she should just do if she wants to. >> I don't know if that's a hot take. >> Okay. But hold on. >> But it's but it's not coercive for a husband to ask his wife just to have good old vaginal intercourse. Right. Um,
03:02:24
Brian Atlas>> and all all other things being equal, >> like asking once, um, >> when you say, wait, so >> would it be coercive for a husband to ask more than once
03:02:38
Trent Horn>> to have sex? >> For a sensitive act like sex. Yeah. >> Well, >> and same with anal sex. Same with oral sex. Same with Yeah. >> But you don't think vaginal sex is a sensitive thing? That's a normal thing to ask. No, I think sex is still
03:02:50
Farah Khalidisensitive because it's often liable to coercion and pressure. You think people don't like rape, assault, and pressure women into vaginal sex all the time? >> I'm saying I'm saying >> I'm saying in marriage though, just to
03:03:02
Trent Hornlike It sounds like asking for something like oral or anal sex is more apt to be coercive that a woman doesn't want to do it. Yeah. >> Because it's unnatural. It's not what
03:03:13
Farah Khalidisex is for. her her butt and her mouth were not for where his semen is supposed >> here's a great counter by your logic kind ofus him going down her is unnatural I wouldn't say it's coercive
03:03:24
Trent Hornfor him to ask her can I eat you out and neither would you is it coercive because it's unnatural >> I will answer that I don't think any I don't think parts of the body are unkissable I think there's a difference
03:03:35
Trent Hornno you can laugh but I don't think there is a diff there is a difference between the release of the man's semen okay I think there's a big difference even when you gave the example cuz like I'm fine. I don't think it's most women would not
03:03:48
Trent Hornconsider when you say oral sex would not consider it coercive that she's just, you know, kissing the penis and doing the penis. I sound like that old um there was and there was this like 80-year-old woman in the '9s, Dr. Ruth
03:04:00
Trent Hornor whatever who had sex advice. Look her up on YouTube. She's funny. Uh just, you know, doing that. I wouldn't say that that's I don't know if you'd say that's coercive, but you even use the example of swallowing that the release of the semen into the mouth or in the anus. I
03:04:13
SPEAKER_04think you'll have a natural repulsion to that. >> Well, really quick at least at least regular opposite sex attracted women but the oral but but kissing different
03:04:24
Brian Atlasparts of the body is different. >> One sentence. >> One moment. Wait, really quick here. We have Andrew Wilson here leaving some show. Can I really quick? I just got to say something. I got to say something and then we can get right back into the
03:04:37
Brian Atlastopic. Uh Andrew Wilson, should we have And should we let Andrew call in? Do you guys want to let Andrew Wilson call in? Do you want to let him crash the debate really quick? But no. Uh, okay. Well, that's fine. >> He says I'm winning. >> Wait, hold on. Hold on. I do want to
03:04:49
Brian Atlaspoint something out very quickly and then I'll let you guys get right back to it. Farra, do you recall this is back in 2023. You, I believe, had a one-on-one debate with Andrew Wilson
03:05:01
Brian Atlas>> on this show. >> No, not on this show. This was like a a video >> with fire. >> I don't recall, but you guys were having a debate. Andrew, this is was forwarding his uh force doctrine.
03:05:13
Brian Atlas>> Mhm. >> Do you recall that interaction you had? >> We've done force doctrine on the show on >> Andrew, I don't know if you're still watching. Really quick this on this. I
03:05:22
Brian Atlasbelieve that all the credit in a sort of domino effect cascading sort of way to Andrew's success is
03:05:32
Brian Atlasbecause of you. Now, this is why uh so the way I I discovered Andrew Wilson, and this is
03:05:41
Brian Atlasback in uh mid to late 2023, was the clip of you debating Andrew Wilson >> on Playing with Fire. I don't I don't
03:05:50
Brian Atlasknow what the platform was, but the the way I found Andrew Wilson and what uh the what I suppose precipitated me
03:06:00
Brian Atlasinviting him on the show was seeing him debate you. So perhaps the the credit or from your
03:06:10
Brian Atlasperspective, the blame on Andrew's meteoric rise uh could be placed >> I got him on Joe Rogan >> uh essentially. But yeah, no, I I I saw that clip and that's what made me invite
03:06:23
Brian AtlasAndrew on the Whatever podcast and, you know, we generated essentially a billion views for for Andrew and kind of were, you know, I think the the first like
03:06:34
Brian Atlasbigger platform to uh have him on and we had had him on 50 60 70 times. So, it's all nostalgic. >> It's actually interesting. Well,
03:06:44
Brian Atlasinterestingly enough, because you engaged with Andrew Wilson, um, as a feminist, it actually I don't know if you consider this platforming. It w it's
03:06:55
Brian Atlasactually, I think, the direct result for all his, uh, success and the sort of >> I'm happy for him. >> Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I just thought that was interesting. I was thinking of that. So, cuz if it wasn't for that clip, I would have never seen
03:07:09
Brian Atlas>> You would have never met him. >> I would have never seen Andrew Wilson. So I guess I have to thank >> You're welcome for giving giving you a content. >> Andrew Wilson and Andrew I have to thank a feminist for putting Andrew Wilson on
03:07:20
Brian Atlasmy radar which sort of created this cascading domino effect of >> behind every successful man is >> well there you go. Exactly that. Yeah. There you go. >> It's not Rachel, it's me.
03:07:32
Trent Horn>> Yeah. I think I would say I know Andrew is being a little critical right now. I'm not sure why he needs to be. We have two different approaches. The only criticism I've never had a criticism I
03:07:43
Trent Hornactually defended Andrew saying he did a good job debating Matt Dillah Hunty for example on secular ethics. Um I've seen him debate Muslims and do a very good job with that. My only criticism of him
03:07:55
Trent Hornis I think that we should not as Christians we should always treat people with respect and be Christlike and we shouldn't be verbally abusive. It's fine if we get a little bit assertive in what
03:08:07
Trent Hornwe say, but we don't have to be we should still treat people with kindness even if we vigorous. I think that we've had a civil exchange even if it's vigorous. I don't know how you would feel. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, I mean I I think that that's
03:08:19
Trent Hornsomething and that's that's like my main criticism I have of him and I don't know why. I think that you can you can do that without name calling, without, you know, abusiveness or other tactics. And people
03:08:31
Trent Hornwill have different approaches and I'm fine with different Christians offering different approaches and people will take different approaches to me. I take a more Socratic approach and that's fine. But um I think that there's always
03:08:43
Trent Hornfor Christians a bare minimum of Christian morality that we should follow. St. Paul says, "I can have all knowledge, but if I don't have charity, I'm a resounding gong." And so I I think
03:08:53
Trent Hornname calling, um verbal abuse, it's always off the table. Uh 2 Timothy 2:25 says that a Christian should correct his opponents with gentleness and kindness so they may be rescued from the snare of
03:09:03
Brian Atlasthe devil. >> Well, so we're we're at an uh 3 hours. Uh I don't know if you guys we're at Yeah. 3 hours 10 minutes. >> Time flies. >> I don't know if you guys want to continue. Uh I don't know if you covered
03:09:17
Brian Atlasa lot. >> I don't know if you guys feel like we've hit all the prompts that you want to cover. Uh, I'm h I'm happy to keep going for a little bit, but I wanted to >> Do we have any do we have any chats or questions? >> Well, uh, no, we all did the chats, but
03:09:29
Brian AtlasI wanted to check in with you guys and see if you'd like to continue, you'd like to wrap up, you'd like to hit other prompts or >> I was hoping to
03:09:40
Trent Horn>> No. Um, uh, well, your fiance and I have have crossed paths before and >> Oh, he wants to go out to dinner with me and my my boo. >> There you But you haven't probably I'm not going to say anything cuz you haven't revealed who it >> I have. Yeah. >> Oh, you have?
03:09:53
Farah Khalidi>> Who is it? >> Oh, he's just like a like Jack like you talked about his book on your show. >> Yes. He's he's a he's a philosopher. >> SS >> Simes. S Y
03:10:04
SPEAKER_01>> M- S. >> He um I have used his research in rebuting atheism. >> So, it's a small world here. >> So, behind another successful man is a
03:10:17
Trent Hornwoman's fiance. So it all comes back to me. You and >> Oh yes. Without you, Jack could never have been the philosopher that he helped your argument. >> Is he a doctor? >> Not like a medical doctor. Yeah. PhD. PhD. Yeah.
03:10:30
Brian Atlas>> Yeah. >> Okay. Oh, is he is he a religious guy or he interviewed Peter Hitchens or he talked to Peter Hitchens? >> Yeah. He just did a he just did a vegan surrounded you guys should watch. He did really well
03:10:43
Trent Horn>> on Jubilee. >> Mhm. He did one. He was like the main guy or he was one of the 20 >> one the the center. >> I will check that out. >> He's open to logic and things that are friendly to the Catholic worldview. So
03:10:55
Brian Atlas>> maybe if I get >> and only fans but but maybe if I get him then I'll get you. Maybe we'll reel everybody in. >> Did you try to coersse him into pegging or like >> Cuz I feel like >> I was going to say veganism. What are you saying?
03:11:07
Brian Atlas>> No, like cuz I don't know. I feel like did you try to coersse him into like pegging him or something? Cuz I feel like in society there's this pressure that women put on men to try to like get
03:11:18
Brian Atlasthem to accept pegging and it's just like very coercive. Did you ask more than >> I've never asked I've never pegged him or asked to peg him >> cuz that would be really coercive if >> I don't want I don't want to be involved in this. >> She she's not amused.
03:11:32
Farah Khalidi>> So you're saying you want to end the podcast and go get food, right? >> I I think we've I think we've we've >> I do think that was pretty coercive, though. But just to just to clarify the last point you made, you said it's coercive to ask for oral sex and anal
03:11:44
Farah Khalidisex because it's unnatural. But you know, you kind of conceded that, you know, you you kind of deflected, but you know, eating [ __ ] to make a girl come is unnatural in your view, but it's not coercive if I don't believe I don't believe it's cash out in the fact that
03:11:55
Trent Hornit's unnatural for it to be for it to qualify as coercive. >> No, because I I reject that that's unnatural. I think all parts of the body can be kissed, but uh the man's climax is for a particular thing. And that
03:12:06
Trent Hornexplains why women are often hesitant to have the climax somewhere outside of the vagina. >> Wait, wait, so wait wait wait. Oral sex on a woman's not unnatural. Does oral sex on the guy? >> I can get behind this. >> Uh no, it depends what you mean. I I do
03:12:19
Trent Hornthink though that it would count as masturbation if it is done apart from the marital act, but that gets us into more um sticky sexual ethics here. But yeah, no, I I I think at at the end of
03:12:30
Trent Hornthe day, I think people can see my position about the intrinsic goodness of sexuality, of marriage. When it's ordered towards that end, we have ordered good ends, healthy outcomes, healthy families, healthy children. When
03:12:42
Trent Hornit deviates from that, you get to disorders, you get to ugly realities, and I don't like that. >> Trent, would you debate Andrew Wilson >> on what? >> I don't know. Your disagreements. I guess it could just be >> I would. I've been asking him for a
03:12:55
Farah Khalidiyear. I >> You want to debate Andrew? Yeah, I flew a year ago to debate him, but he couldn't do it because Rachel fell ill, but I was I booked the hotel and everything. I've been asking him. >> Uh >> I mean, he owes it to me after I got him
03:13:08
SPEAKER_01on Joe Rogan. So, >> wait, you got Andrew on Joe Rogan. He kind of just said I was the first domino. >> It goes far, whatever. Joe Rogan. >> Uh that's one way. Well, I mean, when I
03:13:19
Trent Hornwhen I do a debate, when I do a debate, I I try to keep my debates on specific topics where there's widespread disagreement on a very serious issue. So, for me, like pornography,
03:13:30
Trent Hornprostitution, fornication, I'll do religious debates on atheism, Protestantism. Our disagreement is really only about well, how aggressive a person should be. Uh, I don't want to
03:13:42
Trent Horndebate him on that. I mean, I'm willing to have d I'm willing to have dialogues with people who differ from me in an approach as long as it could be like a constructive dialogue, but if the goal
03:13:54
Trent Hornof the exchange is just to use aggressive tactics like constant interruption, um, insults, backhanded insults, it's like I don't mind having a conversation
03:14:05
Trent Hornabout that if it could just be chill and relax and not it's a debate and he's going to own him. It's like, look, I want to share Christ with as many people as possible and I and I am open to different ways of doing that and I have
03:14:16
Trent Hornand I have praised when Andrew has done that well in other elements. I just think there's going to be variance in our approach, but I'm fine with a good naturatured discussion that's chill about where we might disagree. So, it depends if I could have just like a good naturatured conversation.
03:14:29
Brian Atlas>> Well, I mean, I can tell you this. Um, I mean, Andrew >> I don't know if we could talk about that for three hours. like how much >> I think Andrew could I think Andrew could talk about uh debate the
03:14:40
Trent Horn>> I Trent the same topic he debated Pearl. Well, I debated Pearl on whether on whether marriage is good for men. Does Andrew think marriage is bad for men?
03:14:52
Trent HornDo you think it's I'm not going to talk you through super chats, but I don't Yeah, that's a Well, that was that's the one debate that I do. >> I don't regret, but like so I I debated Pearl on Pints with Aquinus and
03:15:04
Trent Hornoriginally I said no. I told Matt Frad, "No, I don't want to debate her." Um, but like he kept asking he kept he coerced me. He kept asking me and then I
03:15:14
Trent Hornwas like, "Okay, fine." And she was the most insufferable person >> I have ever she's the only person I've ever debated who interrupted me during my dedicated speaking time. Like not even in cross >> opening statement.
03:15:27
Trent Horn>> Yes. Or my rebuttal where it's like only you were supposed to speak and it was supposed to interrupt. >> It was just like I was like what? So it was just I I found it to be >> I can tell you this about Andrew. Uh I
03:15:38
Brian AtlasTrent, you come across like a very uh you're a very uh amicable sort of guy in terms of We've had you on like three, four times at this point. I think three times >> I think two other times. But yeah,
03:15:50
Brian Atlas>> two other So three now. Yeah. I mean Andrew, this is what Andrew says. He matches energy. So I mean the way you've conducted yourself in this debate, in your other debates, whether on here or
03:16:00
Brian Atlaselsewhere, uh you're a very calm, respectful guy. uh you let people finish their thought, you don't interrupt for the most part. And uh but I mean it's normal in debates. People are going to inherent in any sort of conversation.
03:16:13
Brian AtlasThere's going to be interruptions. Uh I believe that Andrew would have a very mellow goodfaith conversation with you. It would be a debate. You guys would have disagreements, but I don't think he would be like, "You know what? [ __ ] you, Trent. You're a cuck." Like, I don't
03:16:26
Brian Atlasthink Andrew would go there. Uh if you're respectful, he'll be respectful. Um, I I I don't think that if you guys were to debate that it would devolve into some yelling insult match. So, I
03:16:38
Trent Hornmean, Andrew is welcome to weigh in if he if he agrees with my assessment there, but >> I don't know. But I guess he said like the thing about whether marriage is good for men or not. I didn't know if Andrew I thought Andrew wants guys to get
03:16:51
Brian Atlasmarried. So I don't know if like >> I think he does but he has perhaps some descriptive criticisms of the state of you know uh of uh you know the marriage
03:17:03
Trent Hornlaws in this country whether you're secular or Christian. >> Well sure there's things that can be improved but in general I think in general the stats show that men are better off when they get married. Even if they end up divorced they on average
03:17:16
Trent Hornare happier than men who never get married. I'm not even sure if he would want to debate about marriage, I guess. But I think there's plenty of subject matter for >> I don't know. I'll I'll I'll give it some thought. I just I will There are other people, by the way, I've seen
03:17:29
Trent Hornpeople in the super chats like, "Why don't you debate so and so like >> Jay Dyer?" >> Yeah, >> we're we're in talks. >> We'll host it. You want to do a Jay Dyer? We'll we'll >> It's really like It's more like narrow
03:17:41
Trent Horntheology, but I mean, I don't know if if you I don't know. I'll talk to Jay and cuz I don't know I don't know if it's necessarily the whatever topic but I mean we can >> no I mean we can
03:17:54
Trent Horn>> it's a pretty narrow theology thing we were going to talk we've been talking about this debate >> we yeah we've we've had Jay on uh so I mean >> yeah but he debates more like feminism and the sexual ethics and or general
03:18:05
Brian Atlaslike morality I thought >> I mean look if somebody wanted to come on and have a vegan debate on the whatever podcast it debate It doesn't have to strictly just be like feminism or sex work or I'll keep it. I'll keep
03:18:19
Trent Hornthat. >> We can debate religion. We can debate, you know, politics, immigration, whatever. >> One of that because here's my thing. I I want to debate the biggest issues like atheism. I'm always like that by Trent.
03:18:30
Trent HornIf you aren't a jerk, neither am I. Okay. Yeah. I think the biggest thing for me would just be like, well, yeah. I mean, I guess we could just Yeah. Yeah. I just don't know if there's
03:18:42
Trent Hornthat much. It's I I just feel like it's not that big of a disagreement we have. I just don't think I mean I get a little animated, but I think there's clear times when like people can be a little abusive. >> Well, first you guys have to figure out if you guys even want to debate each other. >> I don't know.
03:18:57
Trent Horn>> You don't? >> I I I Yeah, I just want to show up and then it's like after 30 minutes we're fine. And then it's like, well, >> eh, I'm sure Andrew could find a way. >> That doesn't bode well for me wanting to have a civil conversation. So, I'll um
03:19:09
Trent Horndude, I'll give a thought like I've talked with Jay Dyer about stuff. Um but my biggest thing is look, I just wanna I want to I want to spread my faith as many people as possible >> and mo mostly with Andrew is more like
03:19:21
Trent Hornthe reason actually you can thank Andrew for me being back here that like reaching out and wanting to set this up cuz he was critical of me on the Patrick Pet David show. Uh because Patrick get David asked him like hey um are there
03:19:33
Trent Hornsewing circle Christians like oh they're mad I said the f- word. I don't I said the f word in our conversation. I I don't profanity I don't care about in general it can be a little crude but whatever it's more about just like
03:19:44
Trent Horntelling people f you insulting them being abusive so like he said that on Patrick Bet Dave and he's like and I don't see these guys going on the whatever podcast and >> abusive though do you think abusive is a
03:19:57
Trent Hornbit >> feminism approach culture well yeah we probably feminism I'll give it some thought if we can I will give it some thought and if we can I just want to be able to have
03:20:09
Trent Hornjust like a regular yeah I guess a regular conversation. So um but for me it's like I don't know I also try to stick to the big issues like we talked about like for me pornography fornication pornography prostitution
03:20:21
Trent Hornespecially only fans pornography that is a huge evil that I see causing so much damage >> but like nitpicking about what do you you know like I'm not like about like whether women should vote or something like that. I'm like that is just like off in the weeds to me. I want to be
03:20:35
Trent Horntalking about the big things that are going on, but there's other things. So, I don't know. >> Andrew might say that that is a big thing perhaps, but um I mean, wouldn't it is >> we are not repealing the 19th amendment. That's not going to happen. >> It's not going to happen.
03:20:47
Brian Atlas>> Setting that aside, wouldn't it be a big thing? Uh you know, the the approach that Christian, how should Christians behave? How should Christians act? I
03:20:58
Trent Hornmean, maybe I that seems to be central to your criticism >> and that's fine. And look, and I'm and I'm fine with people criticizing me being like, "Hey, you were too soft or you didn't push hard enough or this or
03:21:09
Trent Hornthat." That's a fair criticism. I would just want others like Andrew and others who are more aggressive to accept their fair criticism. And just for me, like, yeah, I would I would rather heir on the
03:21:20
Brian Atlasside of winning the person than winning the argument. >> Okay. Uh, by the way, Far, uh, let me ask Andrew since he's watching. Andrew,
03:21:32
Brian Atlaswe got to set you up with a debate with Far. >> She wants it. >> Think about it. Uh, you know, people were saying people need to see the debate, Andrew. People need to see the debate. So, uh, Far, you want to debate Andrew?
03:21:46
Trent Horn>> I would love to. >> We'll we'll we'll try to make it work. >> I'll tell you, I should be a gentleman then. Ladies first, then I'll think about debating Andrew. How about if if Andrew and I can do the debate, then Trent will agree to it. >> I got to think about that one a bit, but
03:21:58
Brian AtlasI'm open. >> Uh, okay. Really quick, I just wanted to come back to that super quick. Oh, wait. We have some Oh, no. That's I'll pull that up in a sec. I just have to ask. Okay. If a boyfriend asks a girlfriend
03:22:10
Brian Atlasfor oral sex, and if a girlfriend asks her boyfriend for oral sex, are they both equally coercive in so far as they can be coercive?
03:22:20
Farah Khalidi>> No. asking itself doesn't make it coercive. I would say one of them is more liable to coercion in that one of them can tend to be more mirrored in coercion, but I don't think the like the simple request itself is coercive. I'm
03:22:33
Farah Khalidijust saying if you want to minimize liability to coercion, you should have the other person be the one to bring it up was my view. Same with the makeup thing. Same with the spandex thing. Same with the hitting the gym after giving
03:22:45
Farah Khalidibirth. Same with sex work. I think when things are sensitive and often liable to coercion, you want to make sure those actions are undertaken by that person's own autonomy and valition and not due to any type of pressure, nudging, coercion,
03:22:57
Brian Atlaswhich are all in like a spectrum. >> Is it is it more mired in coercion when a man asks his girlfriend for oral sex or when a girlfriend asks her boyfriend
03:23:09
Farah Khalidifor oral sex? Or is it equal? I would say typically I would assume that a man like there's a larger culture of
03:23:19
Farah Khalidicoercion when it comes to women performing oral sex on men than vice versa. I think like women also just perform it more than vice versa because men ask more, they expect it
03:23:32
Farah Khalidimore. I think in casual encounters it's done more often because that's just kind of like the expectation more versus like going down on a woman in a casual setting is I feel like less common I would assume. I have to look up the statistics but based off anecdotal of
03:23:44
Brian Atlaswhat I hear from friends it would seem like it's more common to like for them to go down on a guy casually on a one night stand than vice versa. >> Well, regardless of which one is more common to occur, I I'm more interested
03:23:57
Farah Khalidiin the coercive elements. The fact that it's more common I think is be is due to the fact I don't the fact okay the reason it's more common I don't think is because women just enjoy giving head more than they uh enjoy getting it I was
03:24:10
Brian Atlassaying the reason it happens is because of like an overarching cultural pressure on women to perform this thing >> wouldn't it be the reverse so if men have a greater apprehension to performing oral sex wouldn't it be the
03:24:21
Brian Atlascase that a woman requesting a man to perform oral sex would be mo more coercive due to men's greater apprehension attention to performing. He said he's only mean. He said he's only mean to people when they're mean first. And he says her vocal fry makes me want
03:24:35
Brian Atlasto kill myself. >> I haven't even pulled it up. Hold on. >> I haven't even been mean yet. >> Hold on. I haven't pulled it up. Do you want to engage? Did you even hear what I just said? >> No. I was stun locked by that. >> That's great. So, okay. So, you're saying that the uh men are less likely
03:24:47
Brian Atlasto perform or >> stand me for more than 30 minutes. That's nice. >> You're saying far? You were saying that men are less likely to perform oral sex. It's less common. Perhaps this might be due. Uh there could be varying reasons,
03:25:00
Brian Atlasbut perhaps one of the reasons is men might have a greater apprehension to performing uh oral sex on the woman. So if that is the case, wouldn't it would it then follow that it's actually mo
03:25:12
Brian Atlasmore coercive for a woman to pressure a man into a sex act that he has more apprehension of performing as compared to uh women performing oral sex on men, which they seem to have less less
03:25:24
Farah Khalidiapprehension in doing so. I don't believe they innately have more apprehension. Women actually have um like men are like genuinely men have higher disgust responses than women like
03:25:37
Farah Khalididisgust tolerances. So like women are more disgusted by certain things sexually. So I think the it's actually not that women have less apprehension. I think it's that women tend to stomach and surmount their apprehension more than men. It's not >> Can I give a message to Andrew real fast
03:25:49
Trent Hornby the way? Um sure. Oh, one last thing I thought of. Andrew had a he had a um a message up earlier. He was I'm assuming it's very sarcastic. Good job, Trent. Uh
03:25:59
Trent HornFara is going to quit at Only Fans and your approach to her is going to change her mind. Well, I would say most debates. It's very rare for the other person to change their mind. I don't regret showing someone I debate
03:26:12
Trent Hornkindness. In fact, you can go to my channel, Council of Trent, look up one of my debate opponents is now Catholic. uh because I actually previously debated a guy who was a Protestant and I treated him with kindness and we had a civil
03:26:25
Trent Hornexchange. I didn't have to be aggressive at all and we continued to have a kind exchange after working on evidence together and we the thing we debated before now he agrees with me and he's on
03:26:36
Trent Hornmy side. So I have had people that I've engaged in debates with a um a kinder method, a method that is not trying to be super aggressive and they have adopted my view, the view I defended in
03:26:47
Trent Hornthe debate. So, I would just say to Andrew, I don't I don't think um Yeah. So, maybe you're right, Brian. Maybe we just have to have sorted through on that, but I would very much like try to find a way where it's um it's a
03:26:59
Trent Hornproductive conversation where all Christians can figure out a good way to to spread the gospel to people. So, I will think about it, Andrew, just like I'm thinking about it with Jay. So,
03:27:11
Brian Atlas>> sounds good. Um >> all right. Well, uh, do you guys want to wrap anything up or should we just get into closing statements? >> I don't even have a closing statement. >> No closing statements. >> I think people know where we stand. >> No closing statements.
03:27:22
Trent Horn>> How about just look, if you if you want to know more about what I believe, go to uh, Council of Trent, Trenhorn on YouTube. And then, >> and if people want to see more of me, only.com.
03:27:34
Trent Horn>> So, you you look people up by the URL. I don't even know how it I heard it's I heard people can't search well on Only Fans. Is it complicated? I don't know. I haven't really searched for other people. It's a good question.
03:27:46
Brian Atlas>> Just because you don't Yes, we'll leave it at that. So, >> okay. All right, guys. Well, uh I want to thank both of you for uh joining me today for this debate. Thank you guys. Had a good time.
03:27:59
Brian Atlas>> Yeah, thanks for having us. >> For the viewers, please, if you enjoyed the stream, like the video. Like the video if you enjoyed the stream. Also, if you want to learn how to become a
03:28:10
Brian Atlasmaster debater like Farah or Trent or Andrew Wilson, uh you can go to debateuniversity.com, that's debateuniversity.com to become a master debater. Like the
03:28:22
Brian Atlasvideo, guys. Like the video. Let me just double check here. Make sure we're not uh missing anything else. No, I think we are good. Let me just double check. Am I
03:28:33
Brian Atlasforgetting something? No, I think we're good. All right, guys. Uh 07's in the chat. 07s in the chat. We will see you guys uh Sunday with a
03:28:44
Brian Atlasdating talk. Dating talk 5:00 p.m. Pacific. And we'll see you Sunday. Good night, guys.